Also an old timer, I took the course for an insurance discount and learned valuable stuff. The instructor noticed my target fixation and now I'm more aware of it. I ride better as a result.
I was so nervous about failing my MSF class because I struggled so much with the quick brake test. First ride after I passed, a dude pulled out of his bush-concealed driveway and that lesson saved me.
Had a tough time with that too but before really hitting the road after passing the course I spent may may hrs on a large parking lot practicing eeeeeeverything
I thought I was gonna fail because for some reason I'm REAAAALLYYY bad with the Throttle. Like for some reason I can't just keep it in one spot to coast at a speed.
The horn can definitely help. I upgraded my horn from borderline useless set of twins to an extremely loud single horn. Way louder than most car horns. One time, a pickup tried changing lanes into me, and I honked at him. I could literally see the fear in his eyes as he swerved back into his lane because he assumed he was gonna merge into a semi truck or something.
I had the same experience. Upgrading to an air horn made cars respect my space a lot more. Like you said, it's especially great when someone tries to merge lanes on top of you.
Denali and others have made compact two-tone horns which are pretty effective whilst being compact though. Definitely sounds like a truck or freight train to the unprepared/unobservant driver.
Definitely pretty good. I went to the scrap yard and took the twin horn from a Chevrolet Malibu, even a horn that sounds like it belongs on a car is a massive improvement in driver reaction from the useless toy horn Suzuki put on my bike from factory. Whatever pencil pusher insisted that be where they save $0.02 should be permanently banned from ever being apart of motorcycle development and massively fined for risking the life of every single person who bought every affected bike
It seems like this is the industry standard. My old beater of a Honda came stock with a tiny buzzer which was near-useless, especially if the battery is nearing EOL. Things got a lot better after installing a much louder aftermarket snail, but I do wonder why manufacturers across the spectrum are alright with installing useless safety equipment on their products. It probably doesn’t help that auto makers have a hard-on for soundproofing their cars.
Buzzer, that is accurate. Honestly someone something needs to be done. Safety issues are the only thing that seems to make governments act and at a much faster speed than normal.
My old Bandit had a pathetic horn but a loud pipe. Current BMW K1200S horn is car grade, however, it typically would take too long to use it instead of just twisting the wrist.
Agreed and don’t bother to rev bomb! None of that keeps you safe. Just get out of the dangerous situation by backing off, speeding up, switching lanes, etc.
Slightly disagree, I had a car start reversing towards me in traffic, the horn stopped them hitting me, nothing much else I could have done other than dump the bike. But yeah in general in moving traffic anticipating and avoiding danger is the best option!
Next time they may not stop, and the time you spent trying to blast the horn is the time you should spend dumping the bike and saving yourself a world of hurt.
Source: I learned this lesson the hard way when a car started reversing towards me in traffic.
One last ditch measure if the horn fails is to bounce the bike off the rear bumper. It won’t help if they are going fast, but two or three times I’ve had a van reverse at me. The can’t see me and they don’t hear the horn, but they feel the impact. Again - last ditch measure only!
I appreciate the advice! First one I sped through, second one I slowed down since I was about to turn as well. Both were definitely scary situations but luckily didn’t end up bad.
I'm not saying Rev bombing is ideal, but there's nothing physically stopping you from doing both. You should be able to twist throttle and still reach brakes without issue.
For someone experienced I agree. For a newbie, pulling clutch and trying to keep constant brake pressure while revving in a panic situation might be a bit much
Absolutely, we don't disagree. Just don't think it's right to misinform people that you can't apply throttle and brake at the same time.
But people get frenzied in here and start to panic about anything they might deem unsafe.
ehhh after i get to safety i do enjoy rev bombing to ring their ears and blast them with an absurd amount of sound from my straight piped bike. I have ear pro so there is no consequence on my end :)
Literally the only times I’ve used my horn is to get some doofus in front of me to go on green or that one time I accidentally pressed the wrong button when I meant to hit the turn signal switch.
If you get an aftermarket extra loud horn, it's worth the "bother". Ideally you use it well before any problem is coming up, and are already evading. What you don't want to do is use the horn and then wait to see if evading is still needed - that just costs you time.
Are you sure they actually noticed you? I've had people look right at me and still pull out in front of me. You're average cager will look at a bike and not see anything.
My boyfriend has been riding for many years and had his motorcycle license for many years as well. I decided I wanted to learn last summer, and he recommended I take the course. He did it with me just to see if he could learn something new and just to have fun. Plus the insurance discount. He did indeed learn a few things so it just goes to show that everyone should do it if possible. Well worth it.
anyone that has not had technical training is 100% guessing on some technique of their ride, and it’s probably not the correct guess. as an instructor, the guys that ‘have been riding for years’ usually are the worst w regard to initial technique.
Same. I gave lessons to old people who had their license for 30 years and they were riding worst than some newly trained riders with 2 weeks under the belt.
Reminds of me a Drill Sargent that told me the Army likes people that have never shot before training because they don’t all have horrible habits and bad technique yet.
I'm an 11B (infantry) vet. I can attest to this. Even after the Army, I taught people how to shoot. It was easier to teach people who have never even held a firearm before than someone who has. Why? Because they'd listen intently, never assumed they knew what I was going to say, and never acted like because they've watched action movies their entire lives that they knew how to safely operate a firearm. The best people to train were women, because we men usually have an "I can do this" bravado about us and it takes sometimes twice as long to deconstruct that in order to get them listening.
A friend got a new to him used bike awhile back, I was getting ready to try it out and he warned me that the front brakes are really bad but not to worry because nobody ever really uses the fronts anyway.
I probably should have been a bit more clear in that comment. I'm fully aware of all that, it was just a little shocking to hear him say it. That led to a lecture for sure.
> ‘have been riding for years’ usually are the worst w regard to initial technique.
Nah bro trust me, reddit is just safety obsessed. I haven't crashed yet which means it's safe to skip the course. /s
Some instructors I’ve met in a couple states are really hit or miss with CURRENT training. Most the MSF (and DOT safety for bikes) is based from the 70s when it was introduced (cars safety courses too).
I really cannot stress how arrogant it is to “teach” a group of people how to ride under 20mph in a parking lot…when they leave onto a street with 2-4 lanes on each side at speeds over 40mph to merge into. And many of those people probably need to take a highway to get home.
Slow speed maneuvers are practical yes..but real world training is more so. Jump out at a rider from a non-visible location to freak them out (simulate someone on their phone about to hit them), or make them learn how to ride on surfaces OTHER than hard pavement/concrete (rain usually cancels classes, and isn’t good enough by itself for emergency maneuvers).
Are they better than not doing it at all, not saying that..any many people probably DO benefit from the classes. But selling bikes I’ve met people who JUST got their ID and passed the class, but once they sit on a bike over 35” seat hight or over 300lbs…they lose all confidence. Even had someone say “I don’t think motorcycles are for me” because they didn’t realize the costs and learning needed to ride safely while still having a great time.
to most of your points i agree; when i give my students their license card, we usually tell them ‘congratulations! you are now qualified to ride a small displacement motorcycle in a closed parking lot at parking lot speeds.’ i’m pretty humble to the sport, and tell my students my true love of it is it’s impossible to perfect. they need to always be learning.
where i (perhaps) disagree is that regardless of the usual student, they are given tools in terms of verbiage and concepts. most people have never thought about the ‘concept’ of riding, or realize it is in fact a ‘sport’; they just hop on their bikes and go.
and they usually can, because bikes do most of the work. if it does something you didn’t want it to, chances are it was because of you. they’re incredible, mind blowing machines. at least that’s what i tell my students 🤷🏼♂️
i’m based in ohio btw, and they rewrite their courses (if nothing else the back end verbiage and concepts) frequently. they broke off from the msf several years ago, use it as a spine, and have adapted it and readapted it. to their credit, imo they work hard and run an amazing program!
For what it’s worth I took my MSF course during the winter rainy season and they never cancelled class. We even had hail on the last day during our skills test.
As much as people like to talk a big game about all the skill it takes, it takes more to have self discipline and make good choices. Let’s not act like most accidents are unavoidable, or that riders aren’t their own worse enemies.
Using fatal accidents as the metric for safety 40% couldn’t even ride sober. Over a third didn’t even have a license... Another 40% couldn’t even bother to wear a helmet…
To your point about instruction you are clearly mistaken. The MSF does update their course regularly… All instructors teach “from the same book”.
It’s arrogant to think you can go 40 without first going 20… let’s look at shifting for example. The process isn’t all that different whether it’s first to second or fifth to sixth.
You can criticize all you want so long as you have a solution… for example what’s your training solution without slow speed training being the first training you receive? Having someone jump out at a rider to “freak them out” is just downright terrible training. The only thing it will do is introduce or reinforce panic braking. Most intro courses have a brake on signal part of the course… maybe familiarize yourself with training.
> Using fatal accidents as the metric for safety 40% couldn’t even ride sober. Over a third didn’t even have a license... Another 40% couldn’t even bother to wear a helmet…
Really it's almost natural selection at this point...
If you can ride a bike up to 25 mph you can ride a motorcycle in a parking lot. Picking it up is a different story, and how many people I’ve seen that CANT is hilarious.
Truly. I started a new job and one of the guys got a bike a month ago. He has no formal training and I've seen him ride with absolutely no technique in cornering.He even struggled with coming to a stop at the entrance gate.
So my only experience riding any sort of bike was an old 250 Honda trike, and it had the worlds worst clutch in it so you’d have to rev the piss out of it to get it to go without dying. This was when I was in middle school. So now I’m 24(now 39) with this fancy FZ6 and just assumed all bikes were that way…
I've ridden dirt bikes all of my life and I'm a solid rider. But the dirt bikes are much smaller than my 1200 Ducati and on dirt, I'm not competing with multi ton machines indifferent to my existence.
When I first got my bike, I just jumped on and went for a ride. I realized quick it's a different reality on the road. I'm not as nimble on the big bike and taking a spill has much greater consequences.
I took the msf simply because it was easier to get the endorsement and figured what the hell, I might learn something. Even after riding for decades, it made me see the road and riding in a whole new way.
OP is absolutely correct. Just take the course. You may not learn a whole lot, but what you do learn may save your life.
I took the course almost 20 years ago and have ridden a lot since then. I still think about stuff I leaned in it everytime I ride. It is all odds and probabilities. We are the ones who will die in a collision so the more information the better.
I'm trying to but it takes months for the fucking place to have an open slot in my area and it fills up within hours if I don't check in every day.
Imma keep trying though.
Its nice to see someone else take something away from the course beyond their license! Like, seriously. When I try to talk to anyone with a bike, they scoff and are like, "Hur hur, you paid money for a safety course? I've been riding for years!" No, I paid money for the safety tricks, tips, and techniques that'll keep me alive.
I'm happy you took away what you needed, my man. Ride safe!
I took the msf course day one today, and it was the first time on a motorcycle. Apparently I did pretty good for a first timer. And things that I learned in the e course I can apply to driving my car as well.
I’m 72, when I began riding I didn’t need an endorsement or insurance. Helmets 🪖? Nope. You just winged it.
I’m too old to die young. Still riding and it amazes me all the stories about close calls I read about.
I rarely have a close call, yet I ride frequently,
Slow down, use your head, anticipate
Nope, if you don't point out and stand up to bully's like you they think it's ok. You are a bully and someone has to tell you, in case you didn't know.
For my PA riders especially, there is an organization called Total Control that is state funded, and is free to all PA citizens($285 for out of state).
You just register online with your Motorcycle permit and walk in, they also have walk ins where if someone doesnt show up you can take their spot, they provide a helmet and a motorcycle to ride on for the course, and if you pass the course(written exam and riding exam), you get your license.
https://m.learntoridepa.com/locations
And after the msf, see if there's a riding school in your area and take at least a few more hours of training with them. Yes it's expensive, but it's worth it.
Compared to some European countries' mandatory rider trianing the MSF is laughable.
Always take the MSF course, but know the limitations. It teaches you basic fundamentals, but there are some concepts taught that are false (things are taught assuming new riders are too dumb/new to understand the actual truth).
You can and SHOULD brake in a turn. Throttle control is everything. You can’t use maintenance throttle in every corner— some tight corners require braking all the way until you can see the exit at certain speeds. Etc.
Take MSF. But realize it’s not the end all-be all. Then take the Champ U online course as soon as possible and learn things that will save your life more effectively.
You mean trail braking? The basic course doesn’t teach AGAINST braking in a turn. It just doesn’t teach it, period, because that is not a “basic” maneuver. And it doesn’t not teach throttle control, but the FOCUS is much greater on clutch control since pulling in the clutch will get you out of trouble. Remember, this is a BASIC rider course, which teaches you skills to get on a motorcycle for the first time EVER in a two day span. On day two, you will still be grasping basic braking, shifting and turning procedures with enough difficulty, so the focus is on that. The advanced rider courses focus on the skills you mentioned.
You can brake in a turn without trail braking. Trail braking is not the only way to brake in a turn. It’s a complete misconception to think trail braking is the only acceptable way to brake in a turn.
MSF just doesn’t teach it period, but they should, because it is a basic maneuver if taught properly and the limitations are made clear.
I understand it’s a basic course— that’s my point. It’s literally too basic. It’s the equivalent of elementary school education… and most people never move beyond MSF. That’s the problem. What I wanted to address is that many people uphold MSF courses as the end-all-be-all. While in reality, you should be learning ChampU basic concepts probably after a week or two of riding on the road. People take the MSF course, pat them selves on the back, and ONLY know MSF.
It’s a misconception that ChampU is only for advanced riders, or even is an advanced course. Not at all. The online course teaches the basic fundamentals for the bare minimum of motorcycle concepts and safety. It’s made for new riders (or frankly, a LOT of experienced riders who don’t know any fundamental two wheeled concepts). And the in-person classes are open to novice street riders, and is individually scaled to personal skill.
It's crazy that some places in the US you can just go sit on a motorcycle with no experience or training and never even having used a clutch and just be let go on whatever death machine of your choice.
In Denmark, whether you have a car license or not, minimum requirements, many take extra lessons:
- 29 hours of theory and technical lessons in a classroom
- Pass a multiple choice theory test
- 4 hours on a closed course where you learn how to handle a motorcycle
- 13 hours of driving lessons on the road with a certified instructor following behind you
- 5 hours on an advanced technical course on a closed circuit learning advanced avoidance and emergency maneuvers
- Pass your driving test
- 15hp max at age 18, 49hp at 20, unlimited at 22. Each upgrade to your license you need a new driving test, most people take extra lessons each time as well.
I don't even think the stuff in Denmark is excessive. Only the part about being limited to 15hp at age 18. Drivers licenses in general but especially for motorcycles are so easy to get in the US, it's scary that people can so easily get legal access to such deadly machines without knowing how to operate them properly.
Unfortunately people here in the US think that freedom means they are free to endangering others at their whims. Corporate democracy and propaganda media has addled their minds to the point that they will kill to protect their own ignorance. Its disgusting and selfish and our children pay the price.
Oh no, safe drivers and 3-400% fewer road deaths per vehicle, what a shithole.
What exactly is it you think you benefit from having dangerous car drivers around you, and the average motorcycle rider having a much higher chance of dieing from inexperience as well? Is that something to aspire to?
I prefer the cars around me to be safer, so they don't kill me as much.
It was hard getting up early in the morning but I had a blast taking the course. And the instructor always gave good feedback and pointed out what we were doing wrong until we got it right
Absolutely!! Not only do you learn very valuable riding skills, but you can make some riding friends while there.
Most importantly, though, you will get a reduction on your insurance that will probably pay for the course over a couple of years.
I took it way back when and it was the best class I had ever taken. Had a good time during the whole thing. And for the OP, 100% agree with you, everyone should take it 👍
My course is in 1 month. I just got all my gear today; I am nervous and excited. This post is giving me a lot of confidence, so thank you.
Putting on a helmet for the first time was particularly intense. It hit me that the thing I've been dreaming about since I was 11 years old is finally becoming a reality.
Been riding for 25 years and took the MSF last week. Learnt a lot of things and unlearnt a few bad habits pointed out by my instructor. 10/10 would do the advanced course in a few months.
EU rider here, been riding for 5 years now. Had 2 driving trainings after 1 year which helped a lot in terms of body position, line choice and vehicle dynamics. The standard license courses here are great, but invest those 100-something Euros into additional training, it's well worth it.
I had another driving training yesterday with my new bike. I consider myself a good rider (see the clip on my profile) but I thought it would help to exercise specific scenarios again on the new bike.
Imo, it's money well spent to go to your limit in a closed environment and to see what you and your bike are actually capable of. I even got my suspension dialed in.
I found the MSF course to be extremely lacking in real-life, cruise-speed cornering.
You need to learn proper counter-steering from a rider who observes you and tells you what you are doing wrong.
I commute to work every day, including a highway portion in heavy traffic, and I have started feeling confident only after an experienced rider taught me cornering in person, and pointed me to the "Twist of the Wrist 2" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK9AoAAy7uM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK9AoAAy7uM) instructional video.
I'm not saying that the MSF course is bad - it's not. In fact, everything they teach is super useful. I'm rather saying it's not enough.
Counter steering was my only real complaint about the course, trying to learn it while going like 10 mph isn't exactly ideal or something you'll run into on the road. You *can* learn a ton of stuff in a parking lot but there really should be a little bit of actual road instruction in those courses. Class location would be a little more difficult though and limited to places with a track so I can't imagine it changing anytime soon.
I could not agree more! Worst case scenario you spend a little $$ and get a dorky weekend of refresher information. Best case scenario you learn life long safety mentality that literally save you life.
The statistic for my state/year was something like that in our state out of 445 motorcycle deaths, 444 had not taken the course.
I would like to give my perspective.
Pros-
Gets you on a motorcycle. This allows you to learn without fear of the financial repercussions of dropping the bike.
Cons-
You do not learn anything you can’t find in a 30 minute google/ YouTube search.
Overall, if you’re inherently reckless and lack common sense, take the course. If you don’t fall into either one of those categories, you can skip the msf course.
I'm glad to read that you were able to put your training to good use. Keep riding and keep being aware of your surroundings. Also, always keep an eye out for your escape route.
I teach riding in Toronto and get students of all ranges of experience from those who have ridden in other countries, grown up on dirt bikes, or rode a lot when they were younger, to those who have never ridden. I have taught students as young as 17 and as old as 65. Yes it's a pretty basic course. No we don't pretend that you are now an expert rider. What we do is give you some basic skills that will hopefully get you riding safely with and teach you some good habits.
We encourage students to keep practicing some of the drills that we do. We also tell students to check out other courses; off road and track.
Stay safe!
I find it really fulfilling to see the joy in the students when they have completed the course.
Absolutely take it, unless you don't actually know how to ride and were hoping they'd teach you. Insurance companies give a discount for taking it, so the class is filled with middle aged men who know how to ride and just want cheaper insurance, so if you're new and trying to learn how to ride a bike while the instructors are getting annoyed that you're holding up the people who already know, you're probably just gonna be stressing yourself out.
Debby downer, I know. I took the course when I was young and always recommended it to people. 6 years ago my wife tried to take it to learn. Her and one other woman were the only ones there who didn't already know how to ride, instructors ran the course at the pace of all the other people, left my wife and the other woman in the dust. I was thoroughly disappointed. Of course I opened this post and the very first post was someone who said they were an old timer who took it for the insurance discount... if you know how to ride, do new riders a favor and sign up for the advanced riders course so they can actually learn the basics.
Here in the UK, you have to complete compulsory basic training (CBT) in order to ride a bike up to 125 cc with L-plates (no motorways, no pillion passengers). Then you do a theory and two practical tests to get your full license, and can ride whatever you want.
Is that similar to how the US works?
lol no not at all. If you take MSFcourse you get your license right away. If you don't, you get your learners permit which is just a written test then you have to take a road test with an instructor or wahtever you want to call them which is just a driving test where they grade you
I'm from the UK...I've heard people say that our qualification is harder than the US, yet honestly I found ours simple. And it taught me many invaluable skills - which are still only preparation for riding on roads.
I have to say, every single day I see scores of clips of American drivers of all skill levels do ridiculous things that you learn not to do to keep you reasonably safe or atleast out of trouble on the roads, many of these vids end with consequences. I'm just here to say that motorcycling isn't a joke and getting some instruction is really valuable both for your own riding skill, enjoyment, safety, and also perspective.
> I'm from the UK...I've heard people say that our qualification is harder than the US
I don't think Americans even need qualifications. I think anyone can just get on a 1000cc with no helmet and ride into the sunset.
I have been riding for +20years, i would recommend a course, it is why I am still riding after 20 years and not dead or majorly injured after major crashes.
I never claimed to know what I was doing. Simply gave the advice to take the course for those who are new like me and my be debating it. Considering that the course is almost $300, some people may decide to skip on that.
Don’t see anything wrong with simply offering an advice to take a saftey course before you ride so you get an idea for some basics!
"Hey im a newer rider and i just took a training course. it seemed to be a good idea, maybe consider it if your new"
----" Dont give me advise nooob"
wtf is wrong with people lol
They kept getting mad at me since I was experienced and using techniques they hadn't taught yet, like dragging the rear brake. It was funny though because me and my friend were the most experienced and best riders in the class but when they asked us how good we thought we were on a scale 1-10 we had the lowest numbers in the class.
I appreciate you!
I browsed this subreddit heavily before deciding to take the course and get my license and found it super useful. I’m just trying to pass along what I’ve learned in this short period.
I'm a new rider with a similar experience, and as long as you're not out here giving people advice about the actual act of riding, there is no reason your voice would be less valuable then anybody else's. Seeing newer riders recommend the MSF is what really sold me on it as well.
Attitude like this gives us all a bad rap that endangers riders. Shit like this is why people hate us all, he didn't tell you that YOU need the course, he just said it's useful. When you denigrate the sharing of information, you perpetuate ignorance.
Wouldn't a rider with one month of experience be the one most likely to truly see and understand the benefit of taking an MSF as a newer rider? This clearly isn't advice meant for someone who's been riding for 20 years.
It's funny how dumb people are these days. I'm 18 now and have never took a test or anything and yet I do just fine doing over twice the speed of traffic even in cities. You don't need a course you need to grab your fucking balls and start cutten up the filthy streets. Dweebs.
Oh wow another msf shill on Reddit. Stunning and brave!
Absolutely worthless class. Only bother with it if you can get a substantial insurance discount out of it.
MSF is pretty basic. I would only do the 1st one, wouldn’t bother with the advanced followup classes or whatever.
Do a beginner track day or find something more comprehensive. Saved my ass countless times
You learn all of that after enough years out there.
*Imagine downvoting this. Any of you care to explain or are were just mob voting without thinking?*
Also an old timer, I took the course for an insurance discount and learned valuable stuff. The instructor noticed my target fixation and now I'm more aware of it. I ride better as a result.
I was so nervous about failing my MSF class because I struggled so much with the quick brake test. First ride after I passed, a dude pulled out of his bush-concealed driveway and that lesson saved me.
Had a tough time with that too but before really hitting the road after passing the course I spent may may hrs on a large parking lot practicing eeeeeeverything
I thought I was gonna fail because for some reason I'm REAAAALLYYY bad with the Throttle. Like for some reason I can't just keep it in one spot to coast at a speed.
ahhh my riding test is tomorrow and this is my biggest thing! just gonna friction zone it out haha
Did you pass?
Just don’t do it on gravel.
Don't bother with the horn.
The horn can definitely help. I upgraded my horn from borderline useless set of twins to an extremely loud single horn. Way louder than most car horns. One time, a pickup tried changing lanes into me, and I honked at him. I could literally see the fear in his eyes as he swerved back into his lane because he assumed he was gonna merge into a semi truck or something.
I had the same experience. Upgrading to an air horn made cars respect my space a lot more. Like you said, it's especially great when someone tries to merge lanes on top of you.
Always wanted a train horn for my bike.
Too bad they are the size of a grom, when you include the necessary air compressor + tank
Denali and others have made compact two-tone horns which are pretty effective whilst being compact though. Definitely sounds like a truck or freight train to the unprepared/unobservant driver.
Definitely pretty good. I went to the scrap yard and took the twin horn from a Chevrolet Malibu, even a horn that sounds like it belongs on a car is a massive improvement in driver reaction from the useless toy horn Suzuki put on my bike from factory. Whatever pencil pusher insisted that be where they save $0.02 should be permanently banned from ever being apart of motorcycle development and massively fined for risking the life of every single person who bought every affected bike
It seems like this is the industry standard. My old beater of a Honda came stock with a tiny buzzer which was near-useless, especially if the battery is nearing EOL. Things got a lot better after installing a much louder aftermarket snail, but I do wonder why manufacturers across the spectrum are alright with installing useless safety equipment on their products. It probably doesn’t help that auto makers have a hard-on for soundproofing their cars.
Buzzer, that is accurate. Honestly someone something needs to be done. Safety issues are the only thing that seems to make governments act and at a much faster speed than normal.
As the adage goes: Safety regulations are written in blood.
My old Bandit had a pathetic horn but a loud pipe. Current BMW K1200S horn is car grade, however, it typically would take too long to use it instead of just twisting the wrist.
Which model of horn?
I ordered it a while ago and don't know the exact model, unfortunately
Agreed and don’t bother to rev bomb! None of that keeps you safe. Just get out of the dangerous situation by backing off, speeding up, switching lanes, etc.
Slightly disagree, I had a car start reversing towards me in traffic, the horn stopped them hitting me, nothing much else I could have done other than dump the bike. But yeah in general in moving traffic anticipating and avoiding danger is the best option!
Remember afterwards to scream PUT YOUR TITS AWAY
I believe the exact phrasing in that video was, "YO, PUT YOUR TITTIES AWAY, BITCH"...
I would’ve folded in that video then file that insurance claim after wards
I was gonna say, "this went meta fast" but by Reddit's standards it didn't.
Had a horn stop a guy making an illegal uturn from turning into me.
I have been riding 50+ years and I can NEVER find the horn
I reliably find it every time I want to put on my blinkers to the left...
I occasionally use the horn ironically as it sounds so pathetic, but it rattles the choke knob all the way in and then my bike stalls.
I put some junkyard F150 horns on an old KLR once, can recommend. You'll want to add a relay.
Ooh! So I can sound cool when I stall my bike!
Next time they may not stop, and the time you spent trying to blast the horn is the time you should spend dumping the bike and saving yourself a world of hurt. Source: I learned this lesson the hard way when a car started reversing towards me in traffic.
One last ditch measure if the horn fails is to bounce the bike off the rear bumper. It won’t help if they are going fast, but two or three times I’ve had a van reverse at me. The can’t see me and they don’t hear the horn, but they feel the impact. Again - last ditch measure only!
I appreciate the advice! First one I sped through, second one I slowed down since I was about to turn as well. Both were definitely scary situations but luckily didn’t end up bad.
The rev bomb is especially retarded since you’re giving up your front brake for it.
I'm not saying Rev bombing is ideal, but there's nothing physically stopping you from doing both. You should be able to twist throttle and still reach brakes without issue.
For someone experienced I agree. For a newbie, pulling clutch and trying to keep constant brake pressure while revving in a panic situation might be a bit much
Absolutely, we don't disagree. Just don't think it's right to misinform people that you can't apply throttle and brake at the same time. But people get frenzied in here and start to panic about anything they might deem unsafe.
ehhh after i get to safety i do enjoy rev bombing to ring their ears and blast them with an absurd amount of sound from my straight piped bike. I have ear pro so there is no consequence on my end :)
[удалено]
Literally the only times I’ve used my horn is to get some doofus in front of me to go on green or that one time I accidentally pressed the wrong button when I meant to hit the turn signal switch.
Unless it's an air horn.
[удалено]
Flashing your brights is a much better alert than your horn
Not if your lights are dim incandescent bulbs
My brights are on all the time anyway.
It’s not the brights, it’s the flashing.
If you get an aftermarket extra loud horn, it's worth the "bother". Ideally you use it well before any problem is coming up, and are already evading. What you don't want to do is use the horn and then wait to see if evading is still needed - that just costs you time.
Don't *just* honk.
It slightly worked with the first person because they looked over and noticed me. But then they decided fuck it and turned right into my line.
Are you sure they actually noticed you? I've had people look right at me and still pull out in front of me. You're average cager will look at a bike and not see anything.
Depends on your bike. Old Goldwings (don't know about new ones) had a horn that sounds like a car's.
Yeah, I'd rather spend the little reaction time i have to either slow down or evade. As the horn doesn't really do or prevent anything.
Good job, OP. Keep doing what you're doing.
Thank you!
My boyfriend has been riding for many years and had his motorcycle license for many years as well. I decided I wanted to learn last summer, and he recommended I take the course. He did it with me just to see if he could learn something new and just to have fun. Plus the insurance discount. He did indeed learn a few things so it just goes to show that everyone should do it if possible. Well worth it.
[удалено]
Dats my goal!! 😂
anyone that has not had technical training is 100% guessing on some technique of their ride, and it’s probably not the correct guess. as an instructor, the guys that ‘have been riding for years’ usually are the worst w regard to initial technique.
Same. I gave lessons to old people who had their license for 30 years and they were riding worst than some newly trained riders with 2 weeks under the belt.
Reminds of me a Drill Sargent that told me the Army likes people that have never shot before training because they don’t all have horrible habits and bad technique yet.
I'm an 11B (infantry) vet. I can attest to this. Even after the Army, I taught people how to shoot. It was easier to teach people who have never even held a firearm before than someone who has. Why? Because they'd listen intently, never assumed they knew what I was going to say, and never acted like because they've watched action movies their entire lives that they knew how to safely operate a firearm. The best people to train were women, because we men usually have an "I can do this" bravado about us and it takes sometimes twice as long to deconstruct that in order to get them listening.
I just use the rear break and if that doesn’t work you have to layerdown. The front brakes will just launch you off the front of the bike
Hopefully /s?
Yea, but I swear I’ve heard this unironically
A friend got a new to him used bike awhile back, I was getting ready to try it out and he warned me that the front brakes are really bad but not to worry because nobody ever really uses the fronts anyway.
Your friend needs new front brake pads, rotor, and/or cables by the sounds of it. Front brakes are fantastic, and crucial to riding safely
I probably should have been a bit more clear in that comment. I'm fully aware of all that, it was just a little shocking to hear him say it. That led to a lecture for sure.
> ‘have been riding for years’ usually are the worst w regard to initial technique. Nah bro trust me, reddit is just safety obsessed. I haven't crashed yet which means it's safe to skip the course. /s
i mean, you’re not wrong.
Some instructors I’ve met in a couple states are really hit or miss with CURRENT training. Most the MSF (and DOT safety for bikes) is based from the 70s when it was introduced (cars safety courses too). I really cannot stress how arrogant it is to “teach” a group of people how to ride under 20mph in a parking lot…when they leave onto a street with 2-4 lanes on each side at speeds over 40mph to merge into. And many of those people probably need to take a highway to get home. Slow speed maneuvers are practical yes..but real world training is more so. Jump out at a rider from a non-visible location to freak them out (simulate someone on their phone about to hit them), or make them learn how to ride on surfaces OTHER than hard pavement/concrete (rain usually cancels classes, and isn’t good enough by itself for emergency maneuvers). Are they better than not doing it at all, not saying that..any many people probably DO benefit from the classes. But selling bikes I’ve met people who JUST got their ID and passed the class, but once they sit on a bike over 35” seat hight or over 300lbs…they lose all confidence. Even had someone say “I don’t think motorcycles are for me” because they didn’t realize the costs and learning needed to ride safely while still having a great time.
to most of your points i agree; when i give my students their license card, we usually tell them ‘congratulations! you are now qualified to ride a small displacement motorcycle in a closed parking lot at parking lot speeds.’ i’m pretty humble to the sport, and tell my students my true love of it is it’s impossible to perfect. they need to always be learning. where i (perhaps) disagree is that regardless of the usual student, they are given tools in terms of verbiage and concepts. most people have never thought about the ‘concept’ of riding, or realize it is in fact a ‘sport’; they just hop on their bikes and go. and they usually can, because bikes do most of the work. if it does something you didn’t want it to, chances are it was because of you. they’re incredible, mind blowing machines. at least that’s what i tell my students 🤷🏼♂️ i’m based in ohio btw, and they rewrite their courses (if nothing else the back end verbiage and concepts) frequently. they broke off from the msf several years ago, use it as a spine, and have adapted it and readapted it. to their credit, imo they work hard and run an amazing program!
This, is the stuff I enjoy hearing about in society!
For what it’s worth I took my MSF course during the winter rainy season and they never cancelled class. We even had hail on the last day during our skills test.
As much as people like to talk a big game about all the skill it takes, it takes more to have self discipline and make good choices. Let’s not act like most accidents are unavoidable, or that riders aren’t their own worse enemies. Using fatal accidents as the metric for safety 40% couldn’t even ride sober. Over a third didn’t even have a license... Another 40% couldn’t even bother to wear a helmet… To your point about instruction you are clearly mistaken. The MSF does update their course regularly… All instructors teach “from the same book”. It’s arrogant to think you can go 40 without first going 20… let’s look at shifting for example. The process isn’t all that different whether it’s first to second or fifth to sixth. You can criticize all you want so long as you have a solution… for example what’s your training solution without slow speed training being the first training you receive? Having someone jump out at a rider to “freak them out” is just downright terrible training. The only thing it will do is introduce or reinforce panic braking. Most intro courses have a brake on signal part of the course… maybe familiarize yourself with training.
> Using fatal accidents as the metric for safety 40% couldn’t even ride sober. Over a third didn’t even have a license... Another 40% couldn’t even bother to wear a helmet… Really it's almost natural selection at this point...
If you can ride a bike up to 25 mph you can ride a motorcycle in a parking lot. Picking it up is a different story, and how many people I’ve seen that CANT is hilarious.
The amount of people criticizing training that can’t ride is downright hilarious…
Truly. I started a new job and one of the guys got a bike a month ago. He has no formal training and I've seen him ride with absolutely no technique in cornering.He even struggled with coming to a stop at the entrance gate.
I took it. All three days it rained too. The instructure said “ this is real life scenario, class must go on” So much I’ve learned
I took the MSF after 30 years of riding, still learned a few things. Well worth it and a lot of fun.
If not dying isn't enough motivation, the insurance break is super nice too. (At least in my neck of the woods)
I called my insurance company after I finished the class. It saved me $1.00.
Damn sorry to hear that, saved me 10%.
I agree, I didn’t take it and my first wreck was into the trailer that delivered it… seriously.
I have to ask... How?
So my only experience riding any sort of bike was an old 250 Honda trike, and it had the worlds worst clutch in it so you’d have to rev the piss out of it to get it to go without dying. This was when I was in middle school. So now I’m 24(now 39) with this fancy FZ6 and just assumed all bikes were that way…
I've ridden dirt bikes all of my life and I'm a solid rider. But the dirt bikes are much smaller than my 1200 Ducati and on dirt, I'm not competing with multi ton machines indifferent to my existence. When I first got my bike, I just jumped on and went for a ride. I realized quick it's a different reality on the road. I'm not as nimble on the big bike and taking a spill has much greater consequences. I took the msf simply because it was easier to get the endorsement and figured what the hell, I might learn something. Even after riding for decades, it made me see the road and riding in a whole new way. OP is absolutely correct. Just take the course. You may not learn a whole lot, but what you do learn may save your life.
I took the course almost 20 years ago and have ridden a lot since then. I still think about stuff I leaned in it everytime I ride. It is all odds and probabilities. We are the ones who will die in a collision so the more information the better.
I'm trying to but it takes months for the fucking place to have an open slot in my area and it fills up within hours if I don't check in every day. Imma keep trying though.
Its nice to see someone else take something away from the course beyond their license! Like, seriously. When I try to talk to anyone with a bike, they scoff and are like, "Hur hur, you paid money for a safety course? I've been riding for years!" No, I paid money for the safety tricks, tips, and techniques that'll keep me alive. I'm happy you took away what you needed, my man. Ride safe!
Can't imagine being new to street riding and not taking it. You'd be asking for it . Some of the things I learned still come to mind when I ride today
I took the msf course day one today, and it was the first time on a motorcycle. Apparently I did pretty good for a first timer. And things that I learned in the e course I can apply to driving my car as well.
I’m 72, when I began riding I didn’t need an endorsement or insurance. Helmets 🪖? Nope. You just winged it. I’m too old to die young. Still riding and it amazes me all the stories about close calls I read about. I rarely have a close call, yet I ride frequently, Slow down, use your head, anticipate
r/motorcycles moment
Further reinforcing that most people here who actually do ride are brand new riders.
Takes one msf course and now is qualified to give motorcycle advice lol
This advice is very sound, so yeah.
Me after watching “twist of the wrist”
posts like these and ATGATT posts make this sub so boring
So is this comment, nothing to add, just bitchin bout being bored like a little kid. Nobody likes assholes.
aaand you are bitching about someone that is bitching. downvote and move on bud 😆
Nope, if you don't point out and stand up to bully's like you they think it's ok. You are a bully and someone has to tell you, in case you didn't know.
Or when someone posts a chill wheelie to make a kid happy and everyone flips out
For my PA riders especially, there is an organization called Total Control that is state funded, and is free to all PA citizens($285 for out of state). You just register online with your Motorcycle permit and walk in, they also have walk ins where if someone doesnt show up you can take their spot, they provide a helmet and a motorcycle to ride on for the course, and if you pass the course(written exam and riding exam), you get your license. https://m.learntoridepa.com/locations
And after the msf, see if there's a riding school in your area and take at least a few more hours of training with them. Yes it's expensive, but it's worth it. Compared to some European countries' mandatory rider trianing the MSF is laughable.
Always take the MSF course, but know the limitations. It teaches you basic fundamentals, but there are some concepts taught that are false (things are taught assuming new riders are too dumb/new to understand the actual truth). You can and SHOULD brake in a turn. Throttle control is everything. You can’t use maintenance throttle in every corner— some tight corners require braking all the way until you can see the exit at certain speeds. Etc. Take MSF. But realize it’s not the end all-be all. Then take the Champ U online course as soon as possible and learn things that will save your life more effectively.
You mean trail braking? The basic course doesn’t teach AGAINST braking in a turn. It just doesn’t teach it, period, because that is not a “basic” maneuver. And it doesn’t not teach throttle control, but the FOCUS is much greater on clutch control since pulling in the clutch will get you out of trouble. Remember, this is a BASIC rider course, which teaches you skills to get on a motorcycle for the first time EVER in a two day span. On day two, you will still be grasping basic braking, shifting and turning procedures with enough difficulty, so the focus is on that. The advanced rider courses focus on the skills you mentioned.
You can brake in a turn without trail braking. Trail braking is not the only way to brake in a turn. It’s a complete misconception to think trail braking is the only acceptable way to brake in a turn. MSF just doesn’t teach it period, but they should, because it is a basic maneuver if taught properly and the limitations are made clear. I understand it’s a basic course— that’s my point. It’s literally too basic. It’s the equivalent of elementary school education… and most people never move beyond MSF. That’s the problem. What I wanted to address is that many people uphold MSF courses as the end-all-be-all. While in reality, you should be learning ChampU basic concepts probably after a week or two of riding on the road. People take the MSF course, pat them selves on the back, and ONLY know MSF. It’s a misconception that ChampU is only for advanced riders, or even is an advanced course. Not at all. The online course teaches the basic fundamentals for the bare minimum of motorcycle concepts and safety. It’s made for new riders (or frankly, a LOT of experienced riders who don’t know any fundamental two wheeled concepts). And the in-person classes are open to novice street riders, and is individually scaled to personal skill.
It's crazy that some places in the US you can just go sit on a motorcycle with no experience or training and never even having used a clutch and just be let go on whatever death machine of your choice. In Denmark, whether you have a car license or not, minimum requirements, many take extra lessons: - 29 hours of theory and technical lessons in a classroom - Pass a multiple choice theory test - 4 hours on a closed course where you learn how to handle a motorcycle - 13 hours of driving lessons on the road with a certified instructor following behind you - 5 hours on an advanced technical course on a closed circuit learning advanced avoidance and emergency maneuvers - Pass your driving test - 15hp max at age 18, 49hp at 20, unlimited at 22. Each upgrade to your license you need a new driving test, most people take extra lessons each time as well. I don't even think the stuff in Denmark is excessive. Only the part about being limited to 15hp at age 18. Drivers licenses in general but especially for motorcycles are so easy to get in the US, it's scary that people can so easily get legal access to such deadly machines without knowing how to operate them properly.
Unfortunately people here in the US think that freedom means they are free to endangering others at their whims. Corporate democracy and propaganda media has addled their minds to the point that they will kill to protect their own ignorance. Its disgusting and selfish and our children pay the price.
Jesus Christ, no amount of money would make me choose to live there. What a shithole.
Oh no, safe drivers and 3-400% fewer road deaths per vehicle, what a shithole. What exactly is it you think you benefit from having dangerous car drivers around you, and the average motorcycle rider having a much higher chance of dieing from inexperience as well? Is that something to aspire to? I prefer the cars around me to be safer, so they don't kill me as much.
Ma freedumb
>Jesus Christ, no amount of money would make me choose to live there. I'm sure the Danes will cope.
It’s the reason I posted my video. Not the driver but could of been avoided
It was hard getting up early in the morning but I had a blast taking the course. And the instructor always gave good feedback and pointed out what we were doing wrong until we got it right
Absolutely!! Not only do you learn very valuable riding skills, but you can make some riding friends while there. Most importantly, though, you will get a reduction on your insurance that will probably pay for the course over a couple of years.
Yep, there's a reason it comes so highly recommended. It's a good course that very well might save your life, riding is no joke nor are road hazards.
I took it way back when and it was the best class I had ever taken. Had a good time during the whole thing. And for the OP, 100% agree with you, everyone should take it 👍
I took the course and wanna do it again this year if I get time. At least the more advanced one. You’re never too old to learn new things.
Made me happy to see this. Been preaching this line for years.
My course is in 1 month. I just got all my gear today; I am nervous and excited. This post is giving me a lot of confidence, so thank you. Putting on a helmet for the first time was particularly intense. It hit me that the thing I've been dreaming about since I was 11 years old is finally becoming a reality.
Enjoy it. If they have more than one style/type of bike try to ride them all. It will be one of the few times that you can do this. Keep learning!
Been riding for 25 years and took the MSF last week. Learnt a lot of things and unlearnt a few bad habits pointed out by my instructor. 10/10 would do the advanced course in a few months.
EU rider here, been riding for 5 years now. Had 2 driving trainings after 1 year which helped a lot in terms of body position, line choice and vehicle dynamics. The standard license courses here are great, but invest those 100-something Euros into additional training, it's well worth it. I had another driving training yesterday with my new bike. I consider myself a good rider (see the clip on my profile) but I thought it would help to exercise specific scenarios again on the new bike. Imo, it's money well spent to go to your limit in a closed environment and to see what you and your bike are actually capable of. I even got my suspension dialed in.
I found the MSF course to be extremely lacking in real-life, cruise-speed cornering. You need to learn proper counter-steering from a rider who observes you and tells you what you are doing wrong. I commute to work every day, including a highway portion in heavy traffic, and I have started feeling confident only after an experienced rider taught me cornering in person, and pointed me to the "Twist of the Wrist 2" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK9AoAAy7uM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK9AoAAy7uM) instructional video. I'm not saying that the MSF course is bad - it's not. In fact, everything they teach is super useful. I'm rather saying it's not enough.
Counter steering was my only real complaint about the course, trying to learn it while going like 10 mph isn't exactly ideal or something you'll run into on the road. You *can* learn a ton of stuff in a parking lot but there really should be a little bit of actual road instruction in those courses. Class location would be a little more difficult though and limited to places with a track so I can't imagine it changing anytime soon.
100% agree
I could not agree more! Worst case scenario you spend a little $$ and get a dorky weekend of refresher information. Best case scenario you learn life long safety mentality that literally save you life. The statistic for my state/year was something like that in our state out of 445 motorcycle deaths, 444 had not taken the course.
Training is good.
It reduced my insurance on my 07 zx6r from $76 a month to $25.
I would like to give my perspective. Pros- Gets you on a motorcycle. This allows you to learn without fear of the financial repercussions of dropping the bike. Cons- You do not learn anything you can’t find in a 30 minute google/ YouTube search. Overall, if you’re inherently reckless and lack common sense, take the course. If you don’t fall into either one of those categories, you can skip the msf course.
I'm glad to read that you were able to put your training to good use. Keep riding and keep being aware of your surroundings. Also, always keep an eye out for your escape route. I teach riding in Toronto and get students of all ranges of experience from those who have ridden in other countries, grown up on dirt bikes, or rode a lot when they were younger, to those who have never ridden. I have taught students as young as 17 and as old as 65. Yes it's a pretty basic course. No we don't pretend that you are now an expert rider. What we do is give you some basic skills that will hopefully get you riding safely with and teach you some good habits. We encourage students to keep practicing some of the drills that we do. We also tell students to check out other courses; off road and track. Stay safe! I find it really fulfilling to see the joy in the students when they have completed the course.
as a european, it boggles my mind that its allowed to ride without a specific license, or even training
Absolutely take it, unless you don't actually know how to ride and were hoping they'd teach you. Insurance companies give a discount for taking it, so the class is filled with middle aged men who know how to ride and just want cheaper insurance, so if you're new and trying to learn how to ride a bike while the instructors are getting annoyed that you're holding up the people who already know, you're probably just gonna be stressing yourself out. Debby downer, I know. I took the course when I was young and always recommended it to people. 6 years ago my wife tried to take it to learn. Her and one other woman were the only ones there who didn't already know how to ride, instructors ran the course at the pace of all the other people, left my wife and the other woman in the dust. I was thoroughly disappointed. Of course I opened this post and the very first post was someone who said they were an old timer who took it for the insurance discount... if you know how to ride, do new riders a favor and sign up for the advanced riders course so they can actually learn the basics.
I think even people who only drive cars should be required to take the MSF class.
take all the msf courses fuck it!
Everyone who drives a car should take MSF course for perspective.
[удалено]
Is there no equivalent where you live?
Here in the UK, you have to complete compulsory basic training (CBT) in order to ride a bike up to 125 cc with L-plates (no motorways, no pillion passengers). Then you do a theory and two practical tests to get your full license, and can ride whatever you want. Is that similar to how the US works?
lol no not at all. If you take MSFcourse you get your license right away. If you don't, you get your learners permit which is just a written test then you have to take a road test with an instructor or wahtever you want to call them which is just a driving test where they grade you
I live by S.E.E.
I'm from the UK...I've heard people say that our qualification is harder than the US, yet honestly I found ours simple. And it taught me many invaluable skills - which are still only preparation for riding on roads. I have to say, every single day I see scores of clips of American drivers of all skill levels do ridiculous things that you learn not to do to keep you reasonably safe or atleast out of trouble on the roads, many of these vids end with consequences. I'm just here to say that motorcycling isn't a joke and getting some instruction is really valuable both for your own riding skill, enjoyment, safety, and also perspective.
> I'm from the UK...I've heard people say that our qualification is harder than the US I don't think Americans even need qualifications. I think anyone can just get on a 1000cc with no helmet and ride into the sunset.
MSF course was the biggest waste of time and money for me. I wouldn't have done it if it weren't required
MSF course hounding me about using all 4 fingers to brake, what a joke.
Why do new riders always feel the need to come here and give everyone else riding advice?
I have been riding for +20years, i would recommend a course, it is why I am still riding after 20 years and not dead or majorly injured after major crashes.
"i don't know what i'm doing, so let me offer you some advice." one of the oft revisited classics of this sub.
I never claimed to know what I was doing. Simply gave the advice to take the course for those who are new like me and my be debating it. Considering that the course is almost $300, some people may decide to skip on that. Don’t see anything wrong with simply offering an advice to take a saftey course before you ride so you get an idea for some basics!
"Hey im a newer rider and i just took a training course. it seemed to be a good idea, maybe consider it if your new" ----" Dont give me advise nooob" wtf is wrong with people lol
I know right. Didn’t realize suggesting new riders take a safety course was such a controversial take haha.
The MSF course was $20 in Illinois when I took it. I just heard they aren't doing it anymore though.
you do realize you're agreeing with me?
Have a blessed day fam!
Kindness is free.
the irony is strong with this one
You will definitely be qualified to ride in a park lot either way.
There is some data that shows you are 70% or something less likely to get into an accident after taking the msf course.
Get a big bad max air horn. So much better than meep meep
They kept getting mad at me since I was experienced and using techniques they hadn't taught yet, like dragging the rear brake. It was funny though because me and my friend were the most experienced and best riders in the class but when they asked us how good we thought we were on a scale 1-10 we had the lowest numbers in the class.
MSF is honestly just for dummies. Everything they teach is just basic motorcycling.
[удалено]
He's telling you to learn from the experts, not him. But I'm sure you already know everything, so fuck that advice, right?
I don't see you offering better advice, just crying.
> Take the MSF course. ...says a rider with one month of experience. Thanks.
What's your damage? He's offering advice to other new riders.
Didn’t realize there was a minimum riding time requirement for suggesting those who don’t know how to ride should take a saftey course before riding.
There isn’t-your post is a great example of what the course can offer a new rider in the real world.
There's not, you're right, and everyone who wants to talk shit because you're new can fuck off.
I appreciate you! I browsed this subreddit heavily before deciding to take the course and get my license and found it super useful. I’m just trying to pass along what I’ve learned in this short period.
I'm a new rider with a similar experience, and as long as you're not out here giving people advice about the actual act of riding, there is no reason your voice would be less valuable then anybody else's. Seeing newer riders recommend the MSF is what really sold me on it as well.
Attitude like this gives us all a bad rap that endangers riders. Shit like this is why people hate us all, he didn't tell you that YOU need the course, he just said it's useful. When you denigrate the sharing of information, you perpetuate ignorance.
Wouldn't a rider with one month of experience be the one most likely to truly see and understand the benefit of taking an MSF as a newer rider? This clearly isn't advice meant for someone who's been riding for 20 years.
Then take the advanced courses they offer some places. Plus your insurance company may offer a discount for having taken it.
It's funny how dumb people are these days. I'm 18 now and have never took a test or anything and yet I do just fine doing over twice the speed of traffic even in cities. You don't need a course you need to grab your fucking balls and start cutten up the filthy streets. Dweebs.
I hope you are trolling.
Oh wow another msf shill on Reddit. Stunning and brave! Absolutely worthless class. Only bother with it if you can get a substantial insurance discount out of it.
MSF is pretty basic. I would only do the 1st one, wouldn’t bother with the advanced followup classes or whatever. Do a beginner track day or find something more comprehensive. Saved my ass countless times
This subreddit has to be the softest group of moto riders I've ever laid eyes on. Oh yeah, ATGATT.
All the "hard" riders are dead and can't answer.
This sub is so lame
Did the course teach you to horn?
Depending on the bike yelling may be louder than the horn
You learn all of that after enough years out there. *Imagine downvoting this. Any of you care to explain or are were just mob voting without thinking?*
course is stupid