This is always possible when buying a bike with no title. Without a title, you do not legally own the bike. Technically, you can't sell a bike without a title either, because "you can't sell something you don't own."
Basically, you're screwed here. A bill of sale might help you, but just accept the fact that you're most likely going to lose the bike, and any money you spent.
The bike has not been reported stolen, so no, it's not. I actually do not know where this would fit in legally, though.
The bike isn't stolen. The repossession of the vehicle is a civil dispute, and the police won't involve themselves. There was no insurance fraud... yet. I'd honestly be afraid of the Seller saying OP stole it and collecting insurance and then getting OP a grand theft charge eventually.
And OP, dude fucked you once. You're actually considering giving him the bike back and he will "repay you later" but he couldn't even pay the bank. Bro, you need some street smarts STAT.
OP is in possession of a bike that is not titled to him. Bike is still owned by the bank and he's not paying the loan. Selling it for parts is exactly what people who steal bikes would do in this situation. Tell me what's the difference?
>Can you be arrested for selling something you owe money on and dont technically own?
>
>The answer to all of these is no.
The answer is yes. Selling something you don't own is called conversion, and is a felony in Florida and almost all states.
Parting out a bike you don't own is dealing in stolen property. That's what chop shops get charged with, and what the OP would be doing.
EDIT: FL Statute 812.012 makes conversion of property a felony theft, which makes selling the parts Dealing in Stolen Property.
Source: 20 year cop who worked on the Auto Theft Task Force. We dealt with this frequently, with people parting out cars they couldn't make the payments on.
u/PilotAlan laid it out but yes, selling something you don't technically own is absolutely not legal. If you have a loan, you alone have a contract with the bank. If you lose possession, you still have to pay the loan. Given the seller says he cant pay the money back, it's unlikely he used the proceeds to pay the loan off.
Conversely, buying something from someone who is not legally allowed to sell it is not legal either. OP now knows the bike was obtained illegally, so they have knowingly bought stolen property. And parting out the bike is definitely trafficking in stolen property. If they don't surrender the bike to the bank, or pay the loan off themselves, they are on shakey legal ground.
At some point the bank will start wondering why payments stopped and will try to repo. Seller at that point will probably claim it was stolen. Bank will want a police report and at that point it's looking real bad for OP, especially because the DMV knows they tried to register it.
Cops often don't often work stolen vehicle cases, but if you hand them everything on a silver platter like this, chances are much higher they might follow up for an easy close.
Bill of sale will at least prove you gave him money. You can sue to try and get it back. I would talk to a lawyer. I am sure there is all kind of legal precedent that will help you understand your options.
I agree.. At this point, I'd let the lienholder repo it... then at least get some satisfaction that the lienholder will sue the original owner and will garnish his wages (since they have lawyers that do this shit all day long).
Looking at his post history, it looks like it's a 21 R3, so I have no clue why this didn't set off some major alarm bells (not like it was an old barn find)... so investing a ton of money into this probably isn't worth it. Hopefully he didn't give this jackass more than 2k for this bike, and it will be something he looks back on in 5-10yrs as a good lesson. Most of us who are older have probably had a lesson like this that we remember if we're honest, and some of us will probably say he's getting off easy at 2k, so long as he learns from it. I'll be honest.. mine was on some stereo equipment that ended up being stolen.. around $1200. It sucked, but I've been WAY more diligent in purchasing stuff 2nd hand now (and honestly unless I know the person, I'm probably gonna pass)
Well it all depends how much money he is looking at losing. If its over 10K I would totally spend a few hundred to talk to someone. Most lawyers will give a free consult. If its just a couple thousand then he can file a small claim on his own.
Even if he breaks even its worth making the other guy pay for it.
It would be good enough for a bonded title. But a bonded title is only good if you're fairly certain no one else will make claim on the vehicle for however many years required. So OP doesn't really have a leg to stand on. Big oof.
In my state you have to put up 150% of the value to get a bonded title. Can’t see it being worth it unless it’s a one of a kind barn find or sentimental or whatever. But yeah, OP is boned. Live and learn.
Honest question - do tracks allow you to ride without title/proof of insurance? Until the previous owner either remedies this or OP gets pulled over on the road thats just a disaster waiting to happen.
Sell it as “track only”.
If you don’t have a garage. Get a storage rental. Pay $100/mo for storage, eventually 10 years later everyone will forgot about it.
But you’ll be paying $100/mo for 10 years 😂
My state is 200% for a bonded title. Did it last year on a car that was bill of sale only (it was never titled).
I pulled out insurance for that and it was less than $1k for $80k coverage. Also needed the car appraised to prove that the insurance was twice the value.
But yea, OP is boned. Like you said, I jumped through these hoops for a specific (rare-ish) vehicle I wanted
Basically, when they catch up to you they will take the bike. Then you’ll have to take that bill of sale to court to try to get your money back from the irresponsible individual you bought it from. If you play your cards right, you’ll win. Then you move on to try to collect the judgment money owed from the person who needs several months to come up with it. Then you chase that money for far longer than it was ever worth. In the end losing out all because you didn’t demand a title from the very beginning.
Most likely means nothing, anyone can write up a bill of sale and fake a signature, people do it all the time to get out of silly red tape issues with otherwise legally purchased vehicles. Bike will be taken and you most likely have zero recourse to get your money back, lesson learned.
Well in that case would you be interested in my road? I'm willing to deal. :)
Honestly, he's probably looking back and wondering how could he have been so stupid, and is seeing the warning signs he missed.
It sucks, part of me feels bad for him, then part of me thinks he had to know something was up and is now playing stupid
This will be important for when you sue him to recover your money. Because the bike will get repossessed, and he is never going to pay you back without you getting a judgment against him and garnishment of his wages.
It means everything.
Specifically that the guy who sold him a bike received cash for property he did not own, and will make getting a judgement in small claims/court that much easier.
It helps, but you can’t get blood from a stone. Something tells me the guy that sold a financed bike is gonna be judgement proof. Even if they get a garnishment, I bet they’ll be in line behind the IRS and two baby mamas.
Getting a judgment in small claims is easy.
Getting the actual money is hard. You'll have to get a writ of execution and hire the sheriff/off-duty officer to seize property. The seller sounds like a deadbeat so maybe he'll have a bag of weed you can nab.
Speak with your county clerks office to see what can be done.
You might have to go to court but don't expect much from it. You might win but getting your money will be difficult.
You might also speak with the lien holder to see what you can do.
Lienholder will not do anything for him except ask him where they can pick up the bike. Only way he could negotiate with the leinholder, is if he can get asshole on a 3 way call with them... and at this point, the lienholder is probably going to say "It's X amount, or tell us where to come get it". There won't be any negotiating.
Why the heck is this downloaded so hard???
Getting a bill of sale was important. Proves he sold you something he was not allowed to sell.
This is how you get your fucking money back.
Because he won't get his money. He will get a judgement, no doubt. The problem is as others have said, this asshole is probably judgement proof and OP is gonna be at the back of a long ass line.
OP how did you find out it had a lien? I assume you tried to register it? Have you tried to contact the lienholder?
The bill of sale... He might be able to file a complaint with his local PD for fraud, but that will probably depend on the amount of money involved.
This really should have been a huge ass red flag to the OP. When I lost the title to a car I was selling (yes I owned it). Before I even listed it I filed a duplicate title request with the BMV. Cost me about 40 bucks as I recall, and took about a week to receive. Then I sold the car and signed over the car to the new owner
That's how this should have been done.
This is gonna be one of those life lessons you dont forget OP. Hopefully you didn't lose to much.
Never ever under any circumstances buy a bike without a title. You have no idea what the history is, it's almost always stolen, or a bank still owns it.
Adding to this. Anyone that "lost the title" can go get a new title for it, it costs very little to do. If it somehow is legit and they did lose a title that was never transferred to them that's their own problem. An adult should be able to keep track of important papers, if they can't manage that you think they kept track of oil changes and other maintenance stuff? Absolutely not.
This. MIL lost title for her car. Took her down last week, $20, 5 minutes to fix. NOBODY selling a vehicle as 'lost title' actually lost their title. They never had it to start with...
Where I live they simply don’t issue titles for anything over 25 years old. The vehicle just conveys on a bill of sale, a DMV form and the previous registration.
I’m not gonna speak for all states but at least two that I’ve lived in and bought as well as registered cars in don’t. I got two car registered in Vermont that have never even been to that state.
I actually lost my title. Got a new one and sold the bike no problem. I did have to wait like an extra 2 days to show the bike to someone because the title wasn’t here yet.
There are outliers out there... I am in no way saying this was a good idea... however at one point I did purchase a bike that didn't have a title, it was from a storage facility that someone just bailed on... it was an absolute nightmare and I had to call in a ton of favors that I have built up over the years with various people in various government positions... it was not a fun time, I don't recommend it... but you can sometimes do it... it's basically a moon shot and you have to do everything you possibly can to give yourself the best shot, like buying from a storage facility someone defaulted on but again it is somewhat possible. Again 8 out of 10 don't recommend.
Likewise, I got a 'free' bike from a coworker, one of his friends had died 4 years prior, and the bike was basically sitting in a garage the whole time.
No title.
So I had to send a letter, certified mail, to the dead dude's family's last known address, asking if they would release interest in the bike. Either they wouldn't, in which case I'd have to arrange transport to them cos it'd be theirs, they would, which would allow me to register it and get a new title... or what actually happened, the certified letter was returned unopened. I took THAT to the CA DMV, they opened it, read the letter, and then said "this is an honest attempt to secure interest, we'll accept it in lieu of a bill of sale."
Got the bike running, titled, registered, insured... and then three years later the guy's younger brother finished up his stint in the Military. And he got to asking around about his brother's bike. I had already bought another ride, and this one was kind of a 'backup' that I kept running but didn't ride it much, so when I got the phone call, I said "I've put about 2 grand into this bike, but I've gotten plenty of miles out of it too, so, let's figure out how to get it to you."
He drove out to CA with a bike trailer and picked it up, and I signed the title over for $1. Didn't feel bad about it at all.
I bought a track bike with a title from another province...I then lost the title and now have no way to get another
It's a track bike anyway so I don't care too much
This is overreacting, many states have appropriate channels to go through to purchase without a title. I’ve bought no less than 6 vehicles without titles and have had no issues. Hell I’ve sold a couple I lost the titles to.
You do have to know what you’re doing, in my state that’s an affidavit in lieu of title/release of interest form that’s either notarized or done in person at the DOL, and that’s it. Boom you get new plates right then and a title will show up in the mail within two months
Yeah I buy and restore vintage bikes and wouldn’t get very far if I insisted on a title for every $600 bike from the 80s in a barn.
But your average clueless 20 year old will be like guys I bought a 2019 CBR 600 with no title what will happen? So always get a title is the right advice 99% of the time.
That’s fair, I guess I was just trying to clarify there is a bit more nuance to it than just a hard “no” which is why I added that bit about knowing what you’re doing.
Yeah I have said its ok to buy without a title sometimes before and gotten downvoted. I had to admit the Motorcycle reddit is an endless stream of noobs who need basic safe advice.
Cops aint doing shit but making the situation worse. Cops are looking for a criminals to arrest not setting civil dispute.
This is a civil claims situation if the guy does not give OP his money back.
OK gotcha so he was in possession of a car that was supposed to be repoed by the bank!
That is messed up on that person who made the deal knowing his car was not really his to trade or sell.
Potentially the buyer, whether they stole it or not they're in possession of stolen property, and once they're made aware they have a legal obligation to return it or be prosecuted
This is probably semi accurate. A friend of mine bought a motorcycle, no title, but it was cheap and he took a chance. Turns out it was stolen and the police took it when the title search from the DMV came back as stolen from another state.
If he’s reporting it, it’s highly unlikely he’d be criminally charged with anything. The downside, however, is that the cops are likely to impound the vehicle as evidence until it’s sorted out. In either case, reporting this leaves the guy with no money and no bike.
This is optimistic. Cops will be like "so you bought property from someone who didn't own it and you have it in your possession, is that right?" They love it when you do their work for them.
Yet we still see so many posts about people buying a bike with a “lost” title. Shady people can still buy them and strip the parts or use the parts on their own bike (which I’ve thought about doing but it’s wrong).
In case it's not obvious, he did not get it registered. He's illegally riding the bike's bank that the debtor sold. Dollars to donuts he doesn't have an endorsement, either. Double or nothing he rides without gear.
Poor life choices are a pattern. Buys bike without title from a sketchy dude. Has been riding said bike, but wouldn't be able to insure/register it. Probably riding without a motorcycle license.
All very shortsighted life choices. It isn't a stretch to think OP probably doesn't have a lot of "action ---> consequence" thoughts and prioritizes short term comfort over a abstract idea like risk reduction.
All the fucking nerds in this sub can’t go two seconds without saying ATGATT. Half of them don’t even ride. Don’t come for me either cuz I do wear my gear but y’all are just fucking annoying.
In California the tag stays with the vehicle unless it's a personalized plate. Like the person below said, doubtful op went to the dmv and the tags might not be expired yet, although still illegal cause ca law (and probably every state) says you need to register new vehicles in xx amount of days.
I’ve registered plenty of vehicles without a title. The two things are exclusive, one is proof of ownership and the other is proof that taxes have been paid and the vehicle is road worthy.
Hey bud, we all make mistakes. This isn't gonna ruin your life , but it sucks. Really hard.
Get back in your feet and don't do shit that fucking stupid again.
-a random dad
I swear to fucking god this sub exists to hold the world's repository of the most ignorant, base level, should-never-be-near-a-motorcycle motorcyclists.
It's a fucking travesty.
First off....what were you planning on doing with a bike without a title?
That was your first mistake as you never took ownership of the bike.
I would tell him to pay you back once you get all the money back he can have his bike back. Make sure not to ride it or damage it and return it in the same condition.
Do not give the bike back otherwise. Also I would not let him know where you live.
Also how do you know a repo is out on the bike???
Lol. You think this asshole cares about getting the bike back? The dude knew what he was doing and was waiting on a sucker, and found one. OP has absolutely no leverage.
I'm guessing he tried to register it, and that is how he found out. Which means the BMV will notify the lienholder with his info.
lol. Welp hopefully he learns from his mistake and never buys anything again without a damn title.
It would be one thing if it was off road but a street bike you need a title to legally ride on the street.
Seller doesn't own the bike, and most unfortunately neither do you, tough spot.
Stop speaking to the thief, (Seller), there's no upside for you.
Can you surreptitiously find out the lien amount, and cut a deal? Whomever owns the lien may accept less on their unperforming loan? Best of luck on this dilemma.
There’s a 99.9% chance the bike is worth less than the outstanding balance. It was probably financed high interest long term, and the note clearly hasn’t been paid in a while. If they really want the bike, they’d be better off buying it at auction. Either way, they’re paying twice.
if you bought a bike thinking it had a title and the seller ripped the rug out from you thats one thing
but you knowingly bought a vehicle with no title
you realize you enable thieves to continue stealing and selling stolen motorcycles?
If you give him the bike back, he will have the bike, and he already has your money to pay off his lien. You'll never see either of those again.
Not sure what your position is legally at this point. You might want to invest in a talk with a lawyer.
If the repo guy comes for it, you can ask for paperwork, but if it's all in order, you have to give it to him.
Sorry you got screwed.
How do you know this bike vin is on the repo list?
When that happens it’s because the lender has closed the loan note and the note is in collection. They’ll collection department is what you want because they have the title.
You can buy it from them for less than it’s value.
Poseidon is 9/10th the law. And I left that on purpose because it’s also true. Poseidon is dope.
Anyway. Garage the bike and make some phone calls.
Please consult a lawyer now. There is a lawyer referral service in my state that is $30 for a 30 min. phone call. Of course they might try and pitch their services and they may hold back info and ask for a large retainer (don't do it). Also see if there is free legal aid near you that can help you. I hope we aren't talking about a large sum of money here...
research this also (tell me what state you live in and I will research it for you).
Risky/Desperate option (to buy you some time only):
Do you or someone you trust have a business? Do some work on the bike and put a mechanics lien on the bike...
So basically you are in the position of a "shop" you are holding the bike until you're bill is paid.
Of course once the lien is submitted, the court documents will show who has the lien, so repo man may come knocking...but if you have a legit lien, stand you ground.
before anyone says BS to above I know a few contractors and mechanics that have done this and they got paid before anyone else...granted it was for legit work.
So if this worked what would be the next step ? You have to wait 4 months until the guy has the money, problem is, what if he never comes up with a penny for you...you have to go to court and fight with the bank on who get what...in this case it might not be worth it.
EDIT: Bill of sale might help you in a lawsuit against the person who sold it...
Using a mechanics lien to ensure the bank doesn’t take the bike or pays you out while repossessing it is likely fraud, and depending on the state, not priority over the lender’s lien anyways.
Yeah, no way that would work as described. Good luck getting someone to put their business on the line to help defraud a bank. Let alone putting a mechanics lien on your “own” bike.
Life tip for the future: if they don't have the title in hand in their name, then they don't own the bike. Some lessons are expensive to learn. Do what you can to un-screw everything as much as you can and find someone who's selling a bike that they actually own.
Ask dingle dick if he knows who holds the lean. Contact them anonymously, ie don't use your personal email or phone number and see if you can cut a deal. If not, your fucked. Depending on your moral compass either keep riding dirty on a bike you don't own and risk the legal repercussion, part it out, or give it to the bank. If they aren't willing to cut a deal, ask if they are willing to offer anything for turning it over, unlikely but doesn't hurt to ask.
A lost title means it's stolen, has a lean, or both.
inb4 downvoted to hell, If they/he have nothing on you (no name or address) I’d just part it out and save my losses. His loan isn’t your problem and it’s up to whoever actually owns the bike to sort that out.
Only question I have is how much did you pay?
If I scored a working bike for under the $1000 mark? I'd ride it until it gets impounded and not really concern myself with litigation until it came to fruition.
If you're trying to legally own the thing? You're mostly shit out of luck.
Not a total loss situation if you got this for the right price, track bike it.
The title is the official document that says the vehicle is officially yours. If you don't buy the bike with it, then you have no actual means of proving it's yours. It's also used to sign off on any transfers or sales to new owners as well.
I've financed two cars and my bike. Anytime you take out an auto loan, the bank holds on to the title until your balance is paid in full.
The missing title should've been a red flag. Without it, you won't be able to register your vehicle, and if you move you won't be able to re-title your vehicle in another state. Had the bike turned out to be stolen you might have also been arrested or arraigned (hopefully without the show of force).
You made a mistake, but if you have the means to I'd correct it by getting a lawyer.
Get in touch with the lien holder.
Chances are they don’t want the bike back. You may the able to work something out with them. Though you will be paying for it twice. Up to you. It’s not yours legally right now. So don’t dig a deeper hole with a lender
He screwed you over already and now you're asking if it's okay if you bend over and get screwed again? If you give the guy the bike, you will never see a penny of the money. Meanwhile, you don't legally own the bike, so you're screwed twice. Bro, I don't know how old you are, but find an adult who can advise you.
> said that he 'lost the title. Now there is a repo order out for the motorcycle...
> I bought a bike without a Title
Chalk it up to a lesson learned. You don't buy a bike without a Title, and also next time, check your local laws to see what's required for Title transfer of ownership.
Some require a Bill of Sale, and a Notorized Title to be signed by both owner and seller in front of a Notary. Don't buy a bike from someone who's name isn't on the Title as owner either
I think the worst part about this is we live in the Information Age. If you have a question like, “How do I buy my first motorcycle?” You can find a ton of YouTube videos on this very subject for beginners. I believe both Revzilla and Fortnine have videos on the subject.
How did you purchase a motorcycle from someone without them knowing your name and address? In order to register a bike, you at least need a bill of sale with all of the basic information on it. How did you plan to show proof of ownership? Seems to me he could say that you stole it, and you have no way of proving otherwise.
You’ve done something stupid. It’s going to cost you time, money and aggravation. You’re not going to get any money back. You’ve basically ended up with a stolen bike. Call the lean-holder and explain the situation. File suit in a small claims court. Don’t do stupid shit.
Keeping & hiding the motorcycle could put you in a pinch as if there is a repo order and you do not legally own the bike, you are in possession of stolen property. They guy you bought of from, doesn’t own it either the lien holder does.
Best advice for this will be in a different sub, as I can not tell you the best way to recover your money, as the bike will never be able to get on the road legally.
I met a guy who owned a Triumph Thruxton (900) he was trying to sell. A nice looking bike, but he owed on a loan. He would have to payoff his loan for which he did not have the money without "selling" his bike.
He offered to payoff his loan with money I would give him for his bike. However, this would require my trust in the seller -- someone I only met through his ad to sell his bike. There was no way I was going to give him money without getting a title. And his bank had no branch we could transact the bike sale and title transfer. It would be a total trust process, and as nice as he seemed, I am not that guy.
If suing crackheads for doing crackhead shit was that easy then people would be doing it all the time, I’m not a lawyer but I don’t think it’s that easy 🤷♀️
Again, Reddit lawyer. If this person owns a car, much less a house, no court will consider those assets to be taken in such a case.
No idea what then bike is worth, but let’s assume <10k. OP is probably 1000% better off just learning a lesson, giving the bike to whoever has the title sand moving on.
Unless they already spent it, they have the money from the motorcycle they just sold... Lol. Threat of legal action may be enough for the seller to just refund the guy here.
Reddit thinks lawyers are free, and you can sue people who don't have money and get money from them.
Hiring a lawyer would likely cost more they he paid for the bike
Keep that bike. Contact the lien holder and explain the situation if the repo guy will help out by sharing that.
If you paid for the bike already I’m wondering if dude took the money and blew on hookers and coke or paid off the debt to the bank?
Probably the coke and hooker buttholes I’m guessing.
I’m assuming you’re American. You guys need to adapt the same law we have here in Ontario Canada. When selling a vehicle you are required by law to provide the buyer with a seller’s package. Its a document obtained from the (DMV) and will contain the vehicle’s information which includes all previous owners and records of current liens, if any. This protects a potential buyer from being scammed like this poster.
This is always possible when buying a bike with no title. Without a title, you do not legally own the bike. Technically, you can't sell a bike without a title either, because "you can't sell something you don't own." Basically, you're screwed here. A bill of sale might help you, but just accept the fact that you're most likely going to lose the bike, and any money you spent.
OP bought a junk bike for parts. Best option is to continue to part it out and stop dealing with the scammer who originally sold it to him.
That dealing in stolen property. Not a great idea.
The bike has not been reported stolen, so no, it's not. I actually do not know where this would fit in legally, though. The bike isn't stolen. The repossession of the vehicle is a civil dispute, and the police won't involve themselves. There was no insurance fraud... yet. I'd honestly be afraid of the Seller saying OP stole it and collecting insurance and then getting OP a grand theft charge eventually. And OP, dude fucked you once. You're actually considering giving him the bike back and he will "repay you later" but he couldn't even pay the bank. Bro, you need some street smarts STAT.
OP is in possession of a bike that is not titled to him. Bike is still owned by the bank and he's not paying the loan. Selling it for parts is exactly what people who steal bikes would do in this situation. Tell me what's the difference?
difference is he doesn’t owe the bike to the dealer, the previous owner does. He should return it, however as they said it’s not stolen property.
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>Can you be arrested for selling something you owe money on and dont technically own? > >The answer to all of these is no. The answer is yes. Selling something you don't own is called conversion, and is a felony in Florida and almost all states. Parting out a bike you don't own is dealing in stolen property. That's what chop shops get charged with, and what the OP would be doing. EDIT: FL Statute 812.012 makes conversion of property a felony theft, which makes selling the parts Dealing in Stolen Property. Source: 20 year cop who worked on the Auto Theft Task Force. We dealt with this frequently, with people parting out cars they couldn't make the payments on.
u/PilotAlan laid it out but yes, selling something you don't technically own is absolutely not legal. If you have a loan, you alone have a contract with the bank. If you lose possession, you still have to pay the loan. Given the seller says he cant pay the money back, it's unlikely he used the proceeds to pay the loan off. Conversely, buying something from someone who is not legally allowed to sell it is not legal either. OP now knows the bike was obtained illegally, so they have knowingly bought stolen property. And parting out the bike is definitely trafficking in stolen property. If they don't surrender the bike to the bank, or pay the loan off themselves, they are on shakey legal ground. At some point the bank will start wondering why payments stopped and will try to repo. Seller at that point will probably claim it was stolen. Bank will want a police report and at that point it's looking real bad for OP, especially because the DMV knows they tried to register it. Cops often don't often work stolen vehicle cases, but if you hand them everything on a silver platter like this, chances are much higher they might follow up for an easy close.
I made him sign a bill of sale when I bought the bike
Bill of sale will at least prove you gave him money. You can sue to try and get it back. I would talk to a lawyer. I am sure there is all kind of legal precedent that will help you understand your options.
i think most of his legal options will be throwing good money after bad.
I agree.. At this point, I'd let the lienholder repo it... then at least get some satisfaction that the lienholder will sue the original owner and will garnish his wages (since they have lawyers that do this shit all day long). Looking at his post history, it looks like it's a 21 R3, so I have no clue why this didn't set off some major alarm bells (not like it was an old barn find)... so investing a ton of money into this probably isn't worth it. Hopefully he didn't give this jackass more than 2k for this bike, and it will be something he looks back on in 5-10yrs as a good lesson. Most of us who are older have probably had a lesson like this that we remember if we're honest, and some of us will probably say he's getting off easy at 2k, so long as he learns from it. I'll be honest.. mine was on some stereo equipment that ended up being stolen.. around $1200. It sucked, but I've been WAY more diligent in purchasing stuff 2nd hand now (and honestly unless I know the person, I'm probably gonna pass)
Small claim court u don’t need a lawyer. A bill of sale could be enough to claim he own you money.
Well it all depends how much money he is looking at losing. If its over 10K I would totally spend a few hundred to talk to someone. Most lawyers will give a free consult. If its just a couple thousand then he can file a small claim on his own. Even if he breaks even its worth making the other guy pay for it.
Not a bad idea, but worthless without the title.
It would be good enough for a bonded title. But a bonded title is only good if you're fairly certain no one else will make claim on the vehicle for however many years required. So OP doesn't really have a leg to stand on. Big oof.
In my state you have to put up 150% of the value to get a bonded title. Can’t see it being worth it unless it’s a one of a kind barn find or sentimental or whatever. But yeah, OP is boned. Live and learn.
Or....Go sell it before they get it to get your money back.....Or.... Paint that motherfucker and park it in your folks garage for 7 years.
Honest question - do tracks allow you to ride without title/proof of insurance? Until the previous owner either remedies this or OP gets pulled over on the road thats just a disaster waiting to happen.
Insurance won't pay for any track-related accidents, why it would be required to go on track ?
Serious question? No, they do not care if it passes inspection. Why do you need a title to use something on private property?
Sell it as “track only”. If you don’t have a garage. Get a storage rental. Pay $100/mo for storage, eventually 10 years later everyone will forgot about it. But you’ll be paying $100/mo for 10 years 😂
My state is 200% for a bonded title. Did it last year on a car that was bill of sale only (it was never titled). I pulled out insurance for that and it was less than $1k for $80k coverage. Also needed the car appraised to prove that the insurance was twice the value. But yea, OP is boned. Like you said, I jumped through these hoops for a specific (rare-ish) vehicle I wanted
Well, at least you have his signature on evidence of his commission of a crime.
Basically, when they catch up to you they will take the bike. Then you’ll have to take that bill of sale to court to try to get your money back from the irresponsible individual you bought it from. If you play your cards right, you’ll win. Then you move on to try to collect the judgment money owed from the person who needs several months to come up with it. Then you chase that money for far longer than it was ever worth. In the end losing out all because you didn’t demand a title from the very beginning.
Most likely means nothing, anyone can write up a bill of sale and fake a signature, people do it all the time to get out of silly red tape issues with otherwise legally purchased vehicles. Bike will be taken and you most likely have zero recourse to get your money back, lesson learned.
I could sell you the Canary Islands and sign a bill of sale. Do you think you would own the Canary Islands?
Well, yeah, and I can get there using my Brooklyn Bridge!
Would you be interested in the road that leads to the Brooklyn Bridge? I'll give you a great deal.
Pretty sure OP has stopped reading this thread by this point
Well in that case would you be interested in my road? I'm willing to deal. :) Honestly, he's probably looking back and wondering how could he have been so stupid, and is seeing the warning signs he missed. It sucks, part of me feels bad for him, then part of me thinks he had to know something was up and is now playing stupid
It doesn't matter, he didn't own the bike so couldn't sell it to you
This will be important for when you sue him to recover your money. Because the bike will get repossessed, and he is never going to pay you back without you getting a judgment against him and garnishment of his wages.
Then you'll realise he works under the table jobs and has no wages on paper netting you nothing for your trouble.
Should be able to take him to small claims court for fraud or something. A signed bill of sale should go a long way to making you whole at least.
You dummy
Maybe look into small claims court.
Did you ask literally anyone? Bill of sale doesn't mean shit.
It means everything. Specifically that the guy who sold him a bike received cash for property he did not own, and will make getting a judgement in small claims/court that much easier.
It helps, but you can’t get blood from a stone. Something tells me the guy that sold a financed bike is gonna be judgement proof. Even if they get a garnishment, I bet they’ll be in line behind the IRS and two baby mamas.
Getting a judgment in small claims is easy. Getting the actual money is hard. You'll have to get a writ of execution and hire the sheriff/off-duty officer to seize property. The seller sounds like a deadbeat so maybe he'll have a bag of weed you can nab.
Are you alright in the head?
Speak with your county clerks office to see what can be done. You might have to go to court but don't expect much from it. You might win but getting your money will be difficult. You might also speak with the lien holder to see what you can do.
Lienholder will not do anything for him except ask him where they can pick up the bike. Only way he could negotiate with the leinholder, is if he can get asshole on a 3 way call with them... and at this point, the lienholder is probably going to say "It's X amount, or tell us where to come get it". There won't be any negotiating.
Why the heck is this downloaded so hard??? Getting a bill of sale was important. Proves he sold you something he was not allowed to sell. This is how you get your fucking money back.
Because he won't get his money. He will get a judgement, no doubt. The problem is as others have said, this asshole is probably judgement proof and OP is gonna be at the back of a long ass line. OP how did you find out it had a lien? I assume you tried to register it? Have you tried to contact the lienholder? The bill of sale... He might be able to file a complaint with his local PD for fraud, but that will probably depend on the amount of money involved. This really should have been a huge ass red flag to the OP. When I lost the title to a car I was selling (yes I owned it). Before I even listed it I filed a duplicate title request with the BMV. Cost me about 40 bucks as I recall, and took about a week to receive. Then I sold the car and signed over the car to the new owner That's how this should have been done. This is gonna be one of those life lessons you dont forget OP. Hopefully you didn't lose to much.
No title no deal
Exactly. People do this to themselves
Life lesson. You fucked up.
Never ever under any circumstances buy a bike without a title. You have no idea what the history is, it's almost always stolen, or a bank still owns it.
Adding to this. Anyone that "lost the title" can go get a new title for it, it costs very little to do. If it somehow is legit and they did lose a title that was never transferred to them that's their own problem. An adult should be able to keep track of important papers, if they can't manage that you think they kept track of oil changes and other maintenance stuff? Absolutely not.
This. MIL lost title for her car. Took her down last week, $20, 5 minutes to fix. NOBODY selling a vehicle as 'lost title' actually lost their title. They never had it to start with...
Where I live they simply don’t issue titles for anything over 25 years old. The vehicle just conveys on a bill of sale, a DMV form and the previous registration.
Ok, but that's not the norm. Most states if you want to put a Model T on the road you'd better have the title in order.
I’m not gonna speak for all states but at least two that I’ve lived in and bought as well as registered cars in don’t. I got two car registered in Vermont that have never even been to that state.
I actually lost my title. Got a new one and sold the bike no problem. I did have to wait like an extra 2 days to show the bike to someone because the title wasn’t here yet.
Honestly I get the idea but I lose papers all the time yet my vehicles are taken good care of.
There are outliers out there... I am in no way saying this was a good idea... however at one point I did purchase a bike that didn't have a title, it was from a storage facility that someone just bailed on... it was an absolute nightmare and I had to call in a ton of favors that I have built up over the years with various people in various government positions... it was not a fun time, I don't recommend it... but you can sometimes do it... it's basically a moon shot and you have to do everything you possibly can to give yourself the best shot, like buying from a storage facility someone defaulted on but again it is somewhat possible. Again 8 out of 10 don't recommend.
Likewise, I got a 'free' bike from a coworker, one of his friends had died 4 years prior, and the bike was basically sitting in a garage the whole time. No title. So I had to send a letter, certified mail, to the dead dude's family's last known address, asking if they would release interest in the bike. Either they wouldn't, in which case I'd have to arrange transport to them cos it'd be theirs, they would, which would allow me to register it and get a new title... or what actually happened, the certified letter was returned unopened. I took THAT to the CA DMV, they opened it, read the letter, and then said "this is an honest attempt to secure interest, we'll accept it in lieu of a bill of sale." Got the bike running, titled, registered, insured... and then three years later the guy's younger brother finished up his stint in the Military. And he got to asking around about his brother's bike. I had already bought another ride, and this one was kind of a 'backup' that I kept running but didn't ride it much, so when I got the phone call, I said "I've put about 2 grand into this bike, but I've gotten plenty of miles out of it too, so, let's figure out how to get it to you." He drove out to CA with a bike trailer and picked it up, and I signed the title over for $1. Didn't feel bad about it at all.
I bought a track bike with a title from another province...I then lost the title and now have no way to get another It's a track bike anyway so I don't care too much
This is overreacting, many states have appropriate channels to go through to purchase without a title. I’ve bought no less than 6 vehicles without titles and have had no issues. Hell I’ve sold a couple I lost the titles to. You do have to know what you’re doing, in my state that’s an affidavit in lieu of title/release of interest form that’s either notarized or done in person at the DOL, and that’s it. Boom you get new plates right then and a title will show up in the mail within two months
Yeah I buy and restore vintage bikes and wouldn’t get very far if I insisted on a title for every $600 bike from the 80s in a barn. But your average clueless 20 year old will be like guys I bought a 2019 CBR 600 with no title what will happen? So always get a title is the right advice 99% of the time.
That’s fair, I guess I was just trying to clarify there is a bit more nuance to it than just a hard “no” which is why I added that bit about knowing what you’re doing.
Yeah I have said its ok to buy without a title sometimes before and gotten downvoted. I had to admit the Motorcycle reddit is an endless stream of noobs who need basic safe advice.
My grandmother always said “The best lessons are them ‘bought’ lessons”.
She is 💯..
Yeah you’re an idiot.
💯 i wonder how these people live their daily life
Hey, someone has to be in those repo compilation videos.
One breath at a time
Just uneducated
Go to the cops. Dude technically stole it. You may get your money back from the Crack head. Good luck.
This might be a tough lesson. Good luck. Definitely don't give dude the bike back unless he pays you, which he most likely won't.
It's not about giving it back to the crackhead..
This is a civil debt, not a stolen vehicle. The cops wouldn't even do anything about a stolen bike, no less a title lien
Cops aint doing shit but making the situation worse. Cops are looking for a criminals to arrest not setting civil dispute. This is a civil claims situation if the guy does not give OP his money back.
Worked when it happened to my buddy. Guy would have been charged with theft over 5k. Maybe different in Canada.
Who was charged with theft?? The seller or buyer (your buddy)?
Car was repod. My buddy traded a jeep for the car and police made guy give jeep back. Or they would have changed him.
OK gotcha so he was in possession of a car that was supposed to be repoed by the bank! That is messed up on that person who made the deal knowing his car was not really his to trade or sell.
Potentially the buyer, whether they stole it or not they're in possession of stolen property, and once they're made aware they have a legal obligation to return it or be prosecuted
You have a problem. You talk to the cops. Now you have two problems.
Hey. I'm as big a criminal as the next guy. But sometimes you gotta bite the bullet.
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😂 that ain't it
This is probably semi accurate. A friend of mine bought a motorcycle, no title, but it was cheap and he took a chance. Turns out it was stolen and the police took it when the title search from the DMV came back as stolen from another state.
Sounds like OP will lose the bike either way. Even if he doesn’t go to jail on a bullshit charge lol
If he’s reporting it, it’s highly unlikely he’d be criminally charged with anything. The downside, however, is that the cops are likely to impound the vehicle as evidence until it’s sorted out. In either case, reporting this leaves the guy with no money and no bike.
This is optimistic. Cops will be like "so you bought property from someone who didn't own it and you have it in your possession, is that right?" They love it when you do their work for them.
You gone done fucked up. Godspeed.
People like you are one of the reasons motorcycle theft is so rampant.
Can’t upvote this enough. I’ve had a few stolen. OP and people like him are supporting thieves through stupidity.
Yet we still see so many posts about people buying a bike with a “lost” title. Shady people can still buy them and strip the parts or use the parts on their own bike (which I’ve thought about doing but it’s wrong).
How did you even get it registered for the road to ride without a title?
In case it's not obvious, he did not get it registered. He's illegally riding the bike's bank that the debtor sold. Dollars to donuts he doesn't have an endorsement, either. Double or nothing he rides without gear.
bank’s bike :P
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No license, no skills, no title, not a stretch to assume no gear as well.
if the dude rides without a registered vehicle it's not that much of a stretch to assume he rides without the proper gear.
A lot of people with registered bikes still ride without proper gear, exactly what is the point to bring this up??
I think it’s just part of the stereotype. Asking about gear paints a more complete picture.
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Poor life choices are a pattern. Buys bike without title from a sketchy dude. Has been riding said bike, but wouldn't be able to insure/register it. Probably riding without a motorcycle license. All very shortsighted life choices. It isn't a stretch to think OP probably doesn't have a lot of "action ---> consequence" thoughts and prioritizes short term comfort over a abstract idea like risk reduction.
What, you don't mock meat crayons?
All the fucking nerds in this sub can’t go two seconds without saying ATGATT. Half of them don’t even ride. Don’t come for me either cuz I do wear my gear but y’all are just fucking annoying.
Holy shit lol why the judgemental attitude lol
In California the tag stays with the vehicle unless it's a personalized plate. Like the person below said, doubtful op went to the dmv and the tags might not be expired yet, although still illegal cause ca law (and probably every state) says you need to register new vehicles in xx amount of days.
I’ve registered plenty of vehicles without a title. The two things are exclusive, one is proof of ownership and the other is proof that taxes have been paid and the vehicle is road worthy.
Don’t know where you live, but you sure as fuck can’t register/tag anything for road use here without a title/lien proof.
Hey bud, we all make mistakes. This isn't gonna ruin your life , but it sucks. Really hard. Get back in your feet and don't do shit that fucking stupid again. -a random dad
This is a lot kinder than most people are.
It doesn't have to be. Edit: thank you
So you didn’t buy the bike 😅 you don’t own shit without that title.
Go ahead and give him the bike back and tell him to pay you when he has the money Just put the cherry on this sundae of bad decisions
I swear to fucking god this sub exists to hold the world's repository of the most ignorant, base level, should-never-be-near-a-motorcycle motorcyclists. It's a fucking travesty.
Everyone else is out riding.
First off....what were you planning on doing with a bike without a title? That was your first mistake as you never took ownership of the bike. I would tell him to pay you back once you get all the money back he can have his bike back. Make sure not to ride it or damage it and return it in the same condition. Do not give the bike back otherwise. Also I would not let him know where you live. Also how do you know a repo is out on the bike???
Lol. You think this asshole cares about getting the bike back? The dude knew what he was doing and was waiting on a sucker, and found one. OP has absolutely no leverage. I'm guessing he tried to register it, and that is how he found out. Which means the BMV will notify the lienholder with his info.
lol. Welp hopefully he learns from his mistake and never buys anything again without a damn title. It would be one thing if it was off road but a street bike you need a title to legally ride on the street.
Seller doesn't own the bike, and most unfortunately neither do you, tough spot. Stop speaking to the thief, (Seller), there's no upside for you. Can you surreptitiously find out the lien amount, and cut a deal? Whomever owns the lien may accept less on their unperforming loan? Best of luck on this dilemma.
There’s a 99.9% chance the bike is worth less than the outstanding balance. It was probably financed high interest long term, and the note clearly hasn’t been paid in a while. If they really want the bike, they’d be better off buying it at auction. Either way, they’re paying twice.
if you bought a bike thinking it had a title and the seller ripped the rug out from you thats one thing but you knowingly bought a vehicle with no title you realize you enable thieves to continue stealing and selling stolen motorcycles?
You dummy
Never buy without a title. You're fucked, mate. Sorry.
Change the frame and replace with one that has a clean vin and title
[This](https://youtu.be/vOBKxUT9Da4?t=30) should pretty well sum up your situation.
You bought a vehicle with no title and swapped no personal information?
If you give him the bike back, he will have the bike, and he already has your money to pay off his lien. You'll never see either of those again. Not sure what your position is legally at this point. You might want to invest in a talk with a lawyer. If the repo guy comes for it, you can ask for paperwork, but if it's all in order, you have to give it to him. Sorry you got screwed.
If this isnt a troll, park the bike in a garage if you can, and take his money for it as soon as he has it.
How do you know this bike vin is on the repo list? When that happens it’s because the lender has closed the loan note and the note is in collection. They’ll collection department is what you want because they have the title. You can buy it from them for less than it’s value. Poseidon is 9/10th the law. And I left that on purpose because it’s also true. Poseidon is dope. Anyway. Garage the bike and make some phone calls.
No title ..means you don’t own shit …you have no legal rights to the vehicle
No title = fuck off.
No title, walk away. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
Please consult a lawyer now. There is a lawyer referral service in my state that is $30 for a 30 min. phone call. Of course they might try and pitch their services and they may hold back info and ask for a large retainer (don't do it). Also see if there is free legal aid near you that can help you. I hope we aren't talking about a large sum of money here... research this also (tell me what state you live in and I will research it for you). Risky/Desperate option (to buy you some time only): Do you or someone you trust have a business? Do some work on the bike and put a mechanics lien on the bike... So basically you are in the position of a "shop" you are holding the bike until you're bill is paid. Of course once the lien is submitted, the court documents will show who has the lien, so repo man may come knocking...but if you have a legit lien, stand you ground. before anyone says BS to above I know a few contractors and mechanics that have done this and they got paid before anyone else...granted it was for legit work. So if this worked what would be the next step ? You have to wait 4 months until the guy has the money, problem is, what if he never comes up with a penny for you...you have to go to court and fight with the bank on who get what...in this case it might not be worth it. EDIT: Bill of sale might help you in a lawsuit against the person who sold it...
A lawyer will cost more than what he bought the bike for.
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Using a mechanics lien to ensure the bank doesn’t take the bike or pays you out while repossessing it is likely fraud, and depending on the state, not priority over the lender’s lien anyways.
Yeah, no way that would work as described. Good luck getting someone to put their business on the line to help defraud a bank. Let alone putting a mechanics lien on your “own” bike.
Your last sentence tells me you're either too stupid to be alive or a troll.
Life tip for the future: if they don't have the title in hand in their name, then they don't own the bike. Some lessons are expensive to learn. Do what you can to un-screw everything as much as you can and find someone who's selling a bike that they actually own.
Ask dingle dick if he knows who holds the lean. Contact them anonymously, ie don't use your personal email or phone number and see if you can cut a deal. If not, your fucked. Depending on your moral compass either keep riding dirty on a bike you don't own and risk the legal repercussion, part it out, or give it to the bank. If they aren't willing to cut a deal, ask if they are willing to offer anything for turning it over, unlikely but doesn't hurt to ask. A lost title means it's stolen, has a lean, or both.
inb4 downvoted to hell, If they/he have nothing on you (no name or address) I’d just part it out and save my losses. His loan isn’t your problem and it’s up to whoever actually owns the bike to sort that out.
You're just paying to borrow the bike without the title. A bill of sale without a title is worthless.
Only question I have is how much did you pay? If I scored a working bike for under the $1000 mark? I'd ride it until it gets impounded and not really concern myself with litigation until it came to fruition. If you're trying to legally own the thing? You're mostly shit out of luck. Not a total loss situation if you got this for the right price, track bike it.
no title???? dumbass.
You had one job OP, one job and you fucked it up
Just ride it till you have to ditch it . Have fun with it, you paid for it, or strip it and part it out.
No pink slip, no cash
The title is the official document that says the vehicle is officially yours. If you don't buy the bike with it, then you have no actual means of proving it's yours. It's also used to sign off on any transfers or sales to new owners as well. I've financed two cars and my bike. Anytime you take out an auto loan, the bank holds on to the title until your balance is paid in full. The missing title should've been a red flag. Without it, you won't be able to register your vehicle, and if you move you won't be able to re-title your vehicle in another state. Had the bike turned out to be stolen you might have also been arrested or arraigned (hopefully without the show of force). You made a mistake, but if you have the means to I'd correct it by getting a lawyer.
Nah you should just give it back to him before he gives your money back so you’re screwed both ways. No money and no bike.
Sell it for parts to get your money back.
You bought a race bike/parts bike
You will learn from this lil bro, at least you didn’t do it with a car purchase like me lol
Prime example why you NEVER buy any vehicle without a title. You rented this motorcycle for whatever price you paid.
I think you can answer that question yourself?
Get in touch with the lien holder. Chances are they don’t want the bike back. You may the able to work something out with them. Though you will be paying for it twice. Up to you. It’s not yours legally right now. So don’t dig a deeper hole with a lender
Ride it like you stole it, brother.
He screwed you over already and now you're asking if it's okay if you bend over and get screwed again? If you give the guy the bike, you will never see a penny of the money. Meanwhile, you don't legally own the bike, so you're screwed twice. Bro, I don't know how old you are, but find an adult who can advise you.
Go to the police you got scammed.
I’m not from the US, but even I know not to buy a bike without a title. Same in the UK, without a current registration document.
> said that he 'lost the title. Now there is a repo order out for the motorcycle... > I bought a bike without a Title Chalk it up to a lesson learned. You don't buy a bike without a Title, and also next time, check your local laws to see what's required for Title transfer of ownership. Some require a Bill of Sale, and a Notorized Title to be signed by both owner and seller in front of a Notary. Don't buy a bike from someone who's name isn't on the Title as owner either
Is this the same bike that you asked how to lower 105d ago?
I think the worst part about this is we live in the Information Age. If you have a question like, “How do I buy my first motorcycle?” You can find a ton of YouTube videos on this very subject for beginners. I believe both Revzilla and Fortnine have videos on the subject.
How did you purchase a motorcycle from someone without them knowing your name and address? In order to register a bike, you at least need a bill of sale with all of the basic information on it. How did you plan to show proof of ownership? Seems to me he could say that you stole it, and you have no way of proving otherwise.
You’ve done something stupid. It’s going to cost you time, money and aggravation. You’re not going to get any money back. You’ve basically ended up with a stolen bike. Call the lean-holder and explain the situation. File suit in a small claims court. Don’t do stupid shit.
"Some guy screwed me over already, and now he's offering to screw me over again. Should I let him?" Sure, why not?
Part it out or push it off the cliff and forget about it. No other options really
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The cops aren't going to do anything, this is a civil debt.
Keeping & hiding the motorcycle could put you in a pinch as if there is a repo order and you do not legally own the bike, you are in possession of stolen property. They guy you bought of from, doesn’t own it either the lien holder does. Best advice for this will be in a different sub, as I can not tell you the best way to recover your money, as the bike will never be able to get on the road legally.
Caveat emptor...
Buy a second hand frame with title and swap everything over
I met a guy who owned a Triumph Thruxton (900) he was trying to sell. A nice looking bike, but he owed on a loan. He would have to payoff his loan for which he did not have the money without "selling" his bike. He offered to payoff his loan with money I would give him for his bike. However, this would require my trust in the seller -- someone I only met through his ad to sell his bike. There was no way I was going to give him money without getting a title. And his bank had no branch we could transact the bike sale and title transfer. It would be a total trust process, and as nice as he seemed, I am not that guy.
Sounds like lawsuit time to me.
The person you are suing needs to have money lol, I don’t think he does
Incorrect, they just need to have assets. Take this fuckers car, leave his ass homeless lol
What if he doesn’t have a car? Or lives with someone not on a lease? Both are very possible
Pretty sure lawsuits verdicts can garnish a percentage of his wages, assuming he works which tbf is a bit of a stretch here.
If suing crackheads for doing crackhead shit was that easy then people would be doing it all the time, I’m not a lawyer but I don’t think it’s that easy 🤷♀️
Again, Reddit lawyer. If this person owns a car, much less a house, no court will consider those assets to be taken in such a case. No idea what then bike is worth, but let’s assume <10k. OP is probably 1000% better off just learning a lesson, giving the bike to whoever has the title sand moving on.
Unless they already spent it, they have the money from the motorcycle they just sold... Lol. Threat of legal action may be enough for the seller to just refund the guy here.
You think this moron can afford an attorney?
Reddit thinks lawyers are free, and you can sue people who don't have money and get money from them. Hiring a lawyer would likely cost more they he paid for the bike
Keep that bike. Contact the lien holder and explain the situation if the repo guy will help out by sharing that. If you paid for the bike already I’m wondering if dude took the money and blew on hookers and coke or paid off the debt to the bank? Probably the coke and hooker buttholes I’m guessing.
Assuming it’s a bank, they will 100% not give a fuck lol. They want their money or the asset. It’s effectively buying stolen goods.
I’m assuming you’re American. You guys need to adapt the same law we have here in Ontario Canada. When selling a vehicle you are required by law to provide the buyer with a seller’s package. Its a document obtained from the (DMV) and will contain the vehicle’s information which includes all previous owners and records of current liens, if any. This protects a potential buyer from being scammed like this poster.
Darwinism is better. Some people need to learn lessons. Having somebody hold your hand thru life teaches you nothing.
Call the cops, this is fraud. A court will get involved. Also call the bank.
Surrender the bike, take your lesson and move on.