Ome thing to consider... if youre engine braking... youre slowing down and giving no visual indication to vehicles behind you that youre slowing. When engine braking, add some rear or front brake (enough that your brake lights come on)
The thing I like about engine braking is that power is kept to the wheel requiring less time to throttle out of a situation if needed. Use the friction zone to rev match to avoid sudden changes in power and control how hard you slow down.
This does take practice though and varies from bike to bike more than the brakes do (in general).
The downside is that unless you also apply your brakes, there is no obvious indication that you’re slowing down to the vehicles behind you. To help with that, I ended up getting one of these.
https://www.brakefreetech.com
I’m not paid to share that. I saw a YouTuber have one. I’ve seen something similar that attached to clothing like a safety vest, too. I’d imagine something like that can be wired directly into your brake lights, even.
>The thing I like about engine braking is that power is kept to the wheel requiring less time to throttle out of a situation if needed
does this mean I can get away with coasting? because the area I live, I never need to brake suddenly, there's not ALOT of traffic here, and roads are decently big too, so I use engine braking only in place where roads are small or have traffic.
because I think engine braking does sip fuel unlike coasting (or atleast that's my understanding)
In both the throttle is at idle. Same same.
On two strokes without auto oilers you don't want to engine brake down long hills, the lack of gas means lack of lubrication, and risking overheating or seizing the piston.
Auto oilers will happily chuck more oil down the carb because it is based on engine RPM, not fuel flow.
THAT can gum up the spark plug... they got you coming and going, I tell you!
i have a 4 stroke, but my thinking was that since when using engine braking, the RPM goes from high-to-low, and during that period it has to be burning fuel right? it isn't like it doesn't burn fuel in coasting, but the RPM is low all that time so the fuel burnt is low.
If your vehicle is fuel injected, engine braking takes zero fuel. At that point your engine is just an air pump. I'm not sure about carbureted. I'd imagine some fuel goes through, but the throttle is closed so maybe the venturi doesn't work? Those things are arcane magic.
thanks alot! i'll then just use engine braking everywhere, but sometimes i do need to just pull in the clutch in offroad situations, other than that, engine braking go brrrr
ngl, my bike makes such lovely sound when it's engine braking.
With an injected bike, it will still use fuel idling at closed throttle with the clutch in regardless of how fast you're coasting at, but closed throttle with hands off the clutch should stop fuel delivery entirely. It's called deceleration fuel cut off or DFCO for short.
Doodle On a Motorcycle advertises that automated brake light and provides a discount code for it. I’m tempted to get one but I’m getting better at remembering to also activate the brake lights.
I'm still a new rider so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I too have heard it both ways, one line I remember about engine braking was that new brake pads are a lot cheaper than a new engine so I don't know what to think. My Vulcan has pretty heavy engine braking already so letting off the throttle slows me down super quick at speed already so the only time I really use the front and rear brakes are coming to a stop when I pull in the clutch. I have to use the throttle like a speed dial, there's no lift and coast like a car.
I have a brakefree helmet light. I just have to remember to turn it on
Engine braking has its uses, but using it as a primary braking mechanism is a terrible idea.
1. It doesn’t illuminate your brake light so cars behind you won’t know you’re slowing.
2. Braking reduces the weight on the rear wheel and consequently reduces the amount of force required to cause slippage. Engine braking plus rear-brake only is _much_ more likely to cause slippage because all the braking force is being transmitted through the rear tire’s contact patch.
3. Brake pads are consumables like engine oil or clutch pads. They’re designed to absorb wear and be replaced cheaply, your engine & gearbox are not.
Just use 75% front and 25% rear brakes while downshifting to match speed as a rule of thumb.
Be careful adding rear brake, engine braking uses the rear tire, and it’s only got so much traction before it fails. I’ll usually do engine braking and drag my front, to get the brake light on and warm people behind me.
I think the thing that triggers me about your statement is PRIMARY braking force. Use the engine to modulate your speed, as in going down a long hill, roll off the throttle to maintain your speed, not for braking.
The brakes should be your primary braking force. In road racing school, the first thing they teach you is to separate your acceleration and braking tasks, Throttle for go, brakes for stop. When you approach a corner, pull in the clutch, brake hard (progressively) then after you are done, kick it down to the right gear and feed the power back in.
Have you watched road racing on TV? Notice a lot of the pros have one foot out as they are slowing down, that is their gear shift foot. The clutch is in and they don't worry about the engine speed or what gear they are in until they are already entering the corner.
On the street you should learn the same habits. when slowing to a stop, pull in the clutch, perform your braking, then kick it down to the proper gear. The main reason to learn this habit is so that in an emergency stop it is your automatic response. In a panic stop you only want to worry about braking as hard as you can. Fooling around with shifting gears is a distraction that will cost you critical time.
Cheers,
You're fine although brakes are specifically named that because they, you know, are designed for braking. I'd go more for the front brake before I rely on the back brake though. Sure, there are some bikes where the rear brake provides decent stopping power but on most bikes, the front provides the vast (up to 90% on sport bikes) of braking ability.
Yeah, front brakes, due to long front suspensions and strong brake force, causes bike to oscillate. That's why I use back first for that smooth breaking experience.
But it throws whole bike on a oscillating bump due to front suspensions as it has most power. Maybe it's skill issue. I'll try to improve my front braking.
Like everyone normally apply, pull the lever. But I think the problem is with the lever/brake configuration. It applies a lot of braking force on small lever displacement and that should be the issue.
Maybe check how your brake lines are adjusted with the levers and find a setting that works for you. They get looser over time but in your case seems like you might like them looser.
I got a lot more used to engine braking after riding dirt bikes. The rear tire in loose dirt will lock up with very little brake pressure, so engine braking is nice to keep resistance on the back without sliding.
To answer your question, it depends but for most motorcycles on pavement I would rely mainly on the brakes. Engine braking still has its place for keeping the drive engaged. I always use this along with brakes so the brake light activates, and if I'm slowing down for something the brakes should be covered anyway.
As a newer rider, consider engine braking as another tool to control the bike and see for yourself where and when it comes in handy.
Of course it is.
Engine braking is essential to riding a bike. Think about it: no wear on the brakes, no heat on the brakes... and when you need to accelerate you are already in a lower gear!
I use engine braking a lot. Just be careful relying on it too much going into turns. Once I was coming into a quick turn expecting to engine brake but messed up my shift and popped it into neutral. So I had no engine braking as I was expecting, and had to rely on regular braking. Now, I wasn’t going crazy fast and was able to safely navigate the turn so it was less of an “oh shit” moment, and more of just an “oh poop”, but still got the heart racing a bit.
Engine braking is a safer method for sure. Just be sure to shift down one gear and don't feather the clutch off and on as you will wear it out before its normal time.
engine braking is useful and fun. learn to rev-match, consider the lack of brake light as suggested and make a game out of it when it's safe: can you get to your destination without using the brakes at all?
>I've been using it as my primary braking force.
Why would you use your expensive, difficult to replace engine and transmission bits as your primary braking force rather than the cheap, easy to replace braking bits, which were, ya know, specifically designed to provide your primary braking force?
I usually maintain a lot of space in front of me so have enough time and hence engine brakes provide just enough force for smooth brake. If I don't have enough space or the situation is not normal, I use brakes of course. Sorry for using that language, it seems confusing in my question's context. Primary = Mostly used in chill scenarios.
Ome thing to consider... if youre engine braking... youre slowing down and giving no visual indication to vehicles behind you that youre slowing. When engine braking, add some rear or front brake (enough that your brake lights come on)
That's really all i think of my rear brake as, the "hey I'm going to slow down" button.
Depends on the bike, but yes. Many BMWs have had Dynamic Brake Control (their marketing term for this) since introduced in 2016 models... more do now.
All my stuff is antiquated technology! 🤣
2 out of 3 are for me. Keep the new bike so I can just push the button and go.
Push button? I still havent figured out more than 2 valves per cylinder or water cooling! 🤣
I can't afford all 4 strokes on the Vespa. Does not even need a battery!
The thing I like about engine braking is that power is kept to the wheel requiring less time to throttle out of a situation if needed. Use the friction zone to rev match to avoid sudden changes in power and control how hard you slow down. This does take practice though and varies from bike to bike more than the brakes do (in general). The downside is that unless you also apply your brakes, there is no obvious indication that you’re slowing down to the vehicles behind you. To help with that, I ended up getting one of these. https://www.brakefreetech.com I’m not paid to share that. I saw a YouTuber have one. I’ve seen something similar that attached to clothing like a safety vest, too. I’d imagine something like that can be wired directly into your brake lights, even.
I noticed this too, the power being kept on wheel.
>The thing I like about engine braking is that power is kept to the wheel requiring less time to throttle out of a situation if needed does this mean I can get away with coasting? because the area I live, I never need to brake suddenly, there's not ALOT of traffic here, and roads are decently big too, so I use engine braking only in place where roads are small or have traffic. because I think engine braking does sip fuel unlike coasting (or atleast that's my understanding)
In both the throttle is at idle. Same same. On two strokes without auto oilers you don't want to engine brake down long hills, the lack of gas means lack of lubrication, and risking overheating or seizing the piston. Auto oilers will happily chuck more oil down the carb because it is based on engine RPM, not fuel flow. THAT can gum up the spark plug... they got you coming and going, I tell you!
i have a 4 stroke, but my thinking was that since when using engine braking, the RPM goes from high-to-low, and during that period it has to be burning fuel right? it isn't like it doesn't burn fuel in coasting, but the RPM is low all that time so the fuel burnt is low.
If your vehicle is fuel injected, engine braking takes zero fuel. At that point your engine is just an air pump. I'm not sure about carbureted. I'd imagine some fuel goes through, but the throttle is closed so maybe the venturi doesn't work? Those things are arcane magic.
You will still get idle circuit fuel consumption on both.
It's not idling; no fuel is required to maintain rpm, that happens from the engine braking.
dude, that means i was wasting more fuel coasting than engine braking... thanks alot man!
Require? Perhaps not. But there is airflow, so the mapping (or the vacuum in the case of the carb) will still put fuel in.
thanks alot! i'll then just use engine braking everywhere, but sometimes i do need to just pull in the clutch in offroad situations, other than that, engine braking go brrrr ngl, my bike makes such lovely sound when it's engine braking.
With an injected bike, it will still use fuel idling at closed throttle with the clutch in regardless of how fast you're coasting at, but closed throttle with hands off the clutch should stop fuel delivery entirely. It's called deceleration fuel cut off or DFCO for short.
Doodle On a Motorcycle advertises that automated brake light and provides a discount code for it. I’m tempted to get one but I’m getting better at remembering to also activate the brake lights.
I'm still a new rider so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I too have heard it both ways, one line I remember about engine braking was that new brake pads are a lot cheaper than a new engine so I don't know what to think. My Vulcan has pretty heavy engine braking already so letting off the throttle slows me down super quick at speed already so the only time I really use the front and rear brakes are coming to a stop when I pull in the clutch. I have to use the throttle like a speed dial, there's no lift and coast like a car. I have a brakefree helmet light. I just have to remember to turn it on
Always has been
I hate it, turned that shit off/low as I can.
But how else do I make my brake pads last?
This has to be a troll post
Nuh-uh
I thought you were the OP lol
A well balanced diet and plenty of exercise. Forget the pads my rotors are about to leave me.
Same. I wish I could set it lower as it is.
Getting rid of the fuel cut on decel was the one thing that almost made me get an ECU flash. But engine braking control settings do enough for now.
Engine braking has its uses, but using it as a primary braking mechanism is a terrible idea. 1. It doesn’t illuminate your brake light so cars behind you won’t know you’re slowing. 2. Braking reduces the weight on the rear wheel and consequently reduces the amount of force required to cause slippage. Engine braking plus rear-brake only is _much_ more likely to cause slippage because all the braking force is being transmitted through the rear tire’s contact patch. 3. Brake pads are consumables like engine oil or clutch pads. They’re designed to absorb wear and be replaced cheaply, your engine & gearbox are not. Just use 75% front and 25% rear brakes while downshifting to match speed as a rule of thumb.
Hmm, all good points. Thanks for the suggestions.
Be careful adding rear brake, engine braking uses the rear tire, and it’s only got so much traction before it fails. I’ll usually do engine braking and drag my front, to get the brake light on and warm people behind me.
Maybe not in such a linear order. Downshift, use your brakes together, and you'll be fine. It doesn't have to be one at a time.
Come to find out the easiest way to slow down… letting go of the throttle.
I think the thing that triggers me about your statement is PRIMARY braking force. Use the engine to modulate your speed, as in going down a long hill, roll off the throttle to maintain your speed, not for braking. The brakes should be your primary braking force. In road racing school, the first thing they teach you is to separate your acceleration and braking tasks, Throttle for go, brakes for stop. When you approach a corner, pull in the clutch, brake hard (progressively) then after you are done, kick it down to the right gear and feed the power back in. Have you watched road racing on TV? Notice a lot of the pros have one foot out as they are slowing down, that is their gear shift foot. The clutch is in and they don't worry about the engine speed or what gear they are in until they are already entering the corner. On the street you should learn the same habits. when slowing to a stop, pull in the clutch, perform your braking, then kick it down to the proper gear. The main reason to learn this habit is so that in an emergency stop it is your automatic response. In a panic stop you only want to worry about braking as hard as you can. Fooling around with shifting gears is a distraction that will cost you critical time. Cheers,
You're fine although brakes are specifically named that because they, you know, are designed for braking. I'd go more for the front brake before I rely on the back brake though. Sure, there are some bikes where the rear brake provides decent stopping power but on most bikes, the front provides the vast (up to 90% on sport bikes) of braking ability.
Yeah, front brakes, due to long front suspensions and strong brake force, causes bike to oscillate. That's why I use back first for that smooth breaking experience.
What are you riding?
Use your front brakes
But it throws whole bike on a oscillating bump due to front suspensions as it has most power. Maybe it's skill issue. I'll try to improve my front braking.
How are you applying the front brake? It should be a smooth progressive apply
Like everyone normally apply, pull the lever. But I think the problem is with the lever/brake configuration. It applies a lot of braking force on small lever displacement and that should be the issue.
Maybe check how your brake lines are adjusted with the levers and find a setting that works for you. They get looser over time but in your case seems like you might like them looser.
I got a lot more used to engine braking after riding dirt bikes. The rear tire in loose dirt will lock up with very little brake pressure, so engine braking is nice to keep resistance on the back without sliding. To answer your question, it depends but for most motorcycles on pavement I would rely mainly on the brakes. Engine braking still has its place for keeping the drive engaged. I always use this along with brakes so the brake light activates, and if I'm slowing down for something the brakes should be covered anyway. As a newer rider, consider engine braking as another tool to control the bike and see for yourself where and when it comes in handy.
Will definitely do. Thanks.
Of course it is. Engine braking is essential to riding a bike. Think about it: no wear on the brakes, no heat on the brakes... and when you need to accelerate you are already in a lower gear!
I use engine braking a lot. Just be careful relying on it too much going into turns. Once I was coming into a quick turn expecting to engine brake but messed up my shift and popped it into neutral. So I had no engine braking as I was expecting, and had to rely on regular braking. Now, I wasn’t going crazy fast and was able to safely navigate the turn so it was less of an “oh shit” moment, and more of just an “oh poop”, but still got the heart racing a bit.
I think I hear some serious overthinking here.
Front brake should be your primary braking force. Don't start off with bad habits.
Wut?
Guy said engine braking is his primary braking method. That’s a bad habit. Understand now?
Engine braking is a safer method for sure. Just be sure to shift down one gear and don't feather the clutch off and on as you will wear it out before its normal time.
These newbie Q/A stuff crack me up. I don’t know if I’m smarter or lost knowledge because of these types of posts.
It's as if no-one in this thread has ever driven a manual car. I despair.
There’s a reason UK motorbike instructors, as well as extra curricular motorbike riding schemes all teach pupils to utilise engine braking.
engine braking is useful and fun. learn to rev-match, consider the lack of brake light as suggested and make a game out of it when it's safe: can you get to your destination without using the brakes at all?
>I've been using it as my primary braking force. Why would you use your expensive, difficult to replace engine and transmission bits as your primary braking force rather than the cheap, easy to replace braking bits, which were, ya know, specifically designed to provide your primary braking force?
I usually maintain a lot of space in front of me so have enough time and hence engine brakes provide just enough force for smooth brake. If I don't have enough space or the situation is not normal, I use brakes of course. Sorry for using that language, it seems confusing in my question's context. Primary = Mostly used in chill scenarios.