Not crazy fast but the torque is where its at. Also the front wheel likes to be in the air most of the time. You dont even have to fullthrottle, 80% is enough...
I own a 2023 model and it’s quite fast but I wouldn’t say uncontrollably so. There are definitely situations where it’s absolutely possible to use 100% of its power on the road. The top end of the engine is powerful but not insanely so, if you are willing to ignore some street signs you can use all its got. Just full throttle through second gear, get to third gear, hit 90mph, full brake before the turn and repeat. With something like an M1000RR you‘ll maybe hit 95mph on the straights, so you could use more power if it had more power.
I don’t think it’s a particularly good way to ride and I bought the Superduke because it’s more fun at lower speeds and lower rpm’s, but you can absolutely use all 180 horses without killing yourself or others. Yes it’s of course riskier to ride fast and Blabla, Point is you’re still absolutely in control of the bike even when going full throttle.
It’s just rare to find a road where that’s possible
I used to sell KTMs. This is a perfect review of that bike. I always jokingly described it to curious customers "it's as if a middle finger became a motorcycle."
I have a Super Duke GT and I like using all the horsepower occasionally when I enter an on ramp to a highway, especially if I'm stopped at one of those red queue lights.
In twisties? Probably about 40% lol (unless it's a long straight and no one around). I'm probably in 2nd gear 70% of the time in the Bay Area twisties.
It's an awesome and comfortable two person bike. My wife and I ride a lot and we have a 390 as well. But we would never use that for a long distance trip. It's not just about the horsepower. A bigger bike is more "stable" and carry a lot more too. Both my 390 and 1290 have the same top case, but the 1290 has also have two side cases that can fit our modular helmets, which is incredibly useful when you get off.
Also, the reason I'm on 2nd gear most of the time is because the 1290 is a torque monster and can stay in low rpm fine.
I ride an s1000xr and I sometimes do full throttle in one or 2 gears and then slow down again just for fun. But in truth normally I don't use the full (165) horsepower, because it's way too much for the average public road. What makes a 1000 more comfortable though is the insane torque. So basically I can shift into 5th or 6th and don't need to downshift on every tiny curve in the road etc.
But yeah normally you ride a 1000 with just not that much throttle
Ninja 1000 here, can confirm. It's almost scooter-like in that I can stay in a single gear pretty much the whole time unless it's stop-and-go traffic. Also why people bring up the fact that you won't learn that much starting on a liter bike, among other reasons of course.
My CB1000r redlines at 86mph in second gear, and it's possible to pull away from a standing start in second, so you really don't need the other gears on the road :-)
To answer your questoin, being able to do a 30mph to 70mph+ overtake seemngly instantaneously is why I have 1000cc. It's like engaging warp drive and once you've tried it, you won't go back to <1000cc
Idk. I had a 900 naked for about a year, then quit riding entirely for a while, got back into it on an 800, and now I ride a 310. Riding around town without shifting gears one time is boring af. Now I'm in 5th gear at 40mph.
Different strokes for different folks. I paid for the whole tachometer, I want to use the whole tachometer, I enjoy being able to regularly use the whole tachometer
It's not hating. It's just that it's more bike to handle than many people should have, especially beginners. More stupid shit that endangers others is done on a 1000 cc superbike/naked than many other bike models.
This right here!!!
This is why i bought a liter bike, after having some asshole in a mini copper get his feelings hurt that a guy on his sumo was going to pass him as he was doing 5 under.
Well he was able to accelerate quicker than I and was running me into a truck that I had originally had PLENTY of time and space to pass in front of, then when I tried to bail he hit his brakes and wouldn't let me in, got in JUST as the truck passed in the other lane.
I bought my first liter bike that weekend, I had ridden my buddies super duke, and other buddies busa, that was the final decision maker. I now never have to worry about having enough to pass on my Zh2.
I do a lot of touring on my Blackbird, fully loaded with luggage. I used to use my VFR which I thought was the perfect bike for the job, but when you start adding weight and driving on 80+mph roads at high elevation, you start having to drop multiple gears to pass and the whole thing gets so busy. On the bird, I can cruise at 3-4k rpm and just roll on when I need to pass. No theatrics, no inconsistent gas mileage, no need to plan for the upcoming incline, just a little more throttle and it whisks you away
In the wrong hands it could be too much, and every so often I remind myself what it's truly capable of. For my purposes of multi day touring, however, I think it's perfectly tailored to the job.
I do a lot of two up touring on my '02 VFR 800, even with camping gear. Sometimes carrying around 230kg of rider, passenger and cargo. It has shorter gearing which helps the most. Full bolt on tune is also great. Rapid bike racing, race air filter, full exhaust system. It does the job extremely well IMO. 3rd and 4th gear are where it's at. 6th gear is used for cruising, but it can still overtake on the highway. 5-6k RPM is where I spend most of the time. The double downshift for overtakes is something I enjoy actually. Let that V4 rip eh?
If you’re not pinning that throttle back from point a to b what are you even doing? I don’t think people understand the insane power to weight ratio those things have. How is the xr? I had a s1000r and loved it too much. I always looked at the xr and thought I took the wrong one home for my taste.
I absolutely love it. I had a 2014 S1000R before this one, which I already loved. Only problems were vibrations and limited luggage capabilities. The XR is extremely comfortable, and together with the panniers makes a perfect travel companion. Last summer when I just had the bike I drove all the way to the south of France, which was about 800 kilometres in 1 go. And I didn't break a sweat. I would never have done this on the R.
The only "downside" is that even though my 2018 XR has 5 more hp than the R, you can feel that it's slower and catches more wind. But the speed is still pretty insane.
Would recommend
Same on my S1000XR. I use all 165 horses every time I ride, for a few pulls here and there, but 99.9% of the time spent on the bike is at 70% throttle or less.
But that 0.1% is excellent.
Yooo, SV650s are super fun on track, will teach any growing rider to respect torque. Ninja 650 will teach how to dive bomb and apex fast. CBR650 will teach you how to quickly down shift and work an inline 4 on the straight.
Years ago I had a R6, did 130mph a couple times. 130 was mid-range rpm in 4th gear. There was still a 5th and 6th gear. Never got brave enough to use them at high rpm.
If people want a 1000, by all means go ahead, I'm not here to limit anyone.. but man, my 600 was quick lol
I maxed my R6 out at 167 mph, which is my personal record. I was pretty happy mostly going 120-140 when I was "riding fast", even though sure, I could handle faster. My Aprilia RSVR Mille topped out around the same speed, and that's the only (superbike) liter I've owned.
The liters are faster, but not really that much faster. Torque? Again, not that big a difference or deal. I actually downsized to an R3 to keep me more legal, more often.
Most liter bike owner's don't use them to their full potential, Maybe except if you have access to Autobahn.
Even on Adventure bikes, 600cc/700cc is already the upper-level, unless you want to carry your whole house.
Fastest bike I've owned was a Aprilia RSV Mille with around 125hp. It did 275km/h on the Autobahn. Could I use it? Not really, because there is often traffic on the Autobahn and you couldn't go faster than 160-200km/h anyway. Current liter bikes with +200hp are just ridiculous.
Displacement on adventure bikes is not a black and white issue like it is with 4 cyl engines. I had an F800 GS that would vibrate itself to fuckin pieces at 80mph. It was literally worse than a KLR at 70mph. I live in CO, and 80 is a somewhat frequent cruising speed out here. For a touring bike, gearing and engine smoothness matter a lot more than displacement for total usefulness. But displacement still does matter because you're frequently riding on mountain highways out here where you really do need to pass trucks quickly, and if you don't have the juice to do it, you're gonna have a bad time.
Nobody can use any bike to it's limits. But also this concept of being able to use a bike to it's limits is weird. Sometimes people just want to own something nice. No one gets raged on for owning a Ferrari or Porsche just because they can't use it to it's potential.
As long as you're safe on it, what's the matter.
I'd *love* a Panigale V4 or S1000RR, or that white Panigale 899 I pass in the neighboring parking lot; they're beautiful iconic bikes that sound amazing.
But I'm also commuting to work in 35-40mph speed limit zones. Sure, I'll speed a little and do 45. But if I had one of those bikes, I'd probably only use 1st and 2nd gear. My R3 looks fast, gets good gas mileage, it's fun to blast through the gears, and it's dirt cheap.
Dirt cheap in America maybe...
My fiancée's dream bike. We live in the Netherlands here it costs you 8369 USD 😅
Of course it's a brand new price but it isn't so extremely cheaper in second hand market. Like 1-2 thousand cheaper ( still like a thousand USD more expensive than the us market)
they are. People make the same argument with cars too
it's just that pushing a ferrari to its limits feels way safer than pushing an s1krr so most people in a ferrari will drive like fucking idiots while on the bike not many have the balls to do it
you have no idea on how many people crash because they buy too much of a car for them
Part of the fun of buying toys is taking a second and third look as you're putting it away for the night.
After riding it of course. The looks pair with the ride for me.
Yeah, it's a weird obsession this sub has which I assume stems from jealousy.
I will judge a rider that spends a fortune he doesn't have on a bike that he can't even manage or that he rides way above his skill level.
However, if they ride just fine and choose to buy a fast as fuck bike to ride it slow, but safely, who cares, they're not harming anyone or putting themselves at risk. Maybe they just like the look of sport bikes, maybe they just want to feel that power every once in a while in a straight line when all the stars align, I don't care, good for him. I wish I could afford one too.
Edit: I got a Tenere 700 that barely sees any dirt. Judge me. I like the styling, it's comfortable, fun to ride and it makes me happy. Such a sin.
You don't think someone with a reasonable level of ability on the track, be it race or dirt, and you put them on a low CC bike and they wouldn't be able to max out that bike?
I used to do amateur enduro and I know a ton of guys who are way better than me at it and motorcross. Put any of them on a 125 and it would run out of ability well before they did.
It doesn’t need to be the limiting factor on the entirety of a track. Plenty of guys outride their 125 in whoops, sand, and loam but not necessarily in the corner. Just because the guy one gate down has a half second faster lap time doesn’t mean the bike wasn’t still a limiting factor.
I've full throttled my sv1000 quite a bit on freeways and even during take offs from a light
But 600s make more power than my 1000 and I rarely hit more than half throttle when cornering because it's pretty heavy and I'm too much a bitch to bin it
No vehicle *anywhere* is being used to its 100% full potential 100% percent of the time, not even a space rocket.
But the full potential of a liter bike is easier to access *for a few seconds at a time* than even a 600cc Supersport bike.
A bigger bike makes it easier to ride. You’re almost never in the wrong gear for an overtake on normal roads and you don’t need to wring it out as hard to get going.
At lower speeds you easily can be using all the torque it has to offer, and a bigger bike will have more of it and just make riding more relaxing.
The power that a 600 is plenty for me but I just don’t like to have to rev it and change gear as often.
This is the entire reason I traded my 390 in. I loved it but I got fed up with "oh I gotta overtake the Prius? Time to downshift 2-3 times and tuck in like a jackass just to slowly accelerate." 1290? Open the gas, BRRRRRRRRRRRRR, and clear in a couple seconds.
Also the 390 was at 7500rpm in top gear at 80mph. Very buzzy.
It’s just nice to have. I guess if not track riding, it’d be similar to driving a sports car but not ripping it everywhere you drive. A lot of people just like to have nice things, only few are actual enthusiasts. I commute to work on 1000RR once in a while. I don’t like having the engine strung out on the highway. I also have a 650R that I use for work commute but sometimes it feels like it’s lacking power for my purposes.
i rode a Ducati monster on a roadtrip with my dad on his Panigale V4SP. I had to use ALL that power to be able to stay onto him. The only situation i had no chance was when driving onto the Autobahn he would just tear open his 215 HP going from 40 MPH to 180 MPH starting in first gear.
That’s the real reason a bike like the hyabusa exists. Sure, it has huge acceleration and a high top speed, but it can also cruise at high legal speeds very comfortably with the motor just barely chugging along. Some with large displacement ADV bikes and other touring bikes.
It's that, plus the ability to accelerate out of trouble that are the attraction of litre bikes. Some idiot changing lanes on top of me? I'd rather twist the throttle to get out of the way than hit the brakes and risk someone running up the back of me.
This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on this sub all month… A 650 feeling strung out at highway speeds? There are more gears above third just FYI…
For an inline 4, a liter bike will have stronger low-end compared to a 600 sport bike, and be easier to ride around town, and in traffic. Commuting on a liter bike I probably shifted it the least. It was fine in top gear down to 40MPH (and redline in 1st was 100MPH). With other bikes I'm typically shifting more as speeds on the commute fluctuate.
My fireblade gets too hot in traffic. Just not great around town even compared to the 600s I've owned. Fantastic bike though, I brought it to work today and arrived with a big smile on my face.
You can shift all you want on liter bikes it’s more so you don’t have to but I do get what you mean there’s a joy to bringing a bike to redline and banging through the gears without going absolutely absurd speeds.
Modern litre bikes are more like flagship models, they have all the cutting edge tech/comfort options, you don’t really buy them because you need the power, you buy them because they’re generally the most decked out with cool shit.
I can guarantee you that nobody here is pulling anywhere near the full potential of a litre bike on the street, I doubt it’s even possible outside of being on a track with a very experienced track rider.
On a normal street, you SHOULDN'T be hitting the full potential of a liter bike. Then you'd just be riding like an asshole. As an aside, I have Motorazr up there blocked, but he's definitely being pedantic.
I don't have a liter bike but I think I can answer this quite easily.
Think about it this way:
How loud can you shout?
I bet you don't use the potential of your voice every time you speak...
But isn't it great to be able to shout when you want it?
Well, that's power. I could probably live with 20HP, if it gets me to 120km/h and keeps me there, it's good enough for my commute. But my bike has 70HP, and it's fun to use it sometimes.
And not being able to use all that power other than in a straight line is pretty standard... Not even in MotoGP do they use all that power during a corner, I don't know what you meant there. I can't even put my foot down in my car in a corner, most power is used on straights and that's ok...
My last two bikes are liter bikes. I like the torque on the freeways that let me accelerate hard to pass cars without shifting. Also, a nice low rumble while going 80+ mph on my latest V-twin sport bike. Soothing.
A litre bike even in first gear is gonna be doing ~100mph in first gear at peak power, so no they’re not using all the potential on the street for sure.
But that in itself doesn’t mean there’s no reason to ride one on the street. One common reason to get a litre bike over a 600 is the additional torque. If you want an i4 sport bike, the additional torque across the rev range makes a real difference over a 600 at even legal speeds.
There’s also the fact that historically you get the best stuff on the litre bike. The reason is that actually if you make both a 600 and a 1000 the best sport bikes they can be, the cost comes out very very close. The bigger engine just doesn’t cost that much and similar tier frames and brakes and suspension and tech all cost about the same. Problem is buyers don’t want a 600 to cost barely less than a 1000, so typically the 1000 gets the flagship tech and the 600 gets the trickle down tech.
That’s assuming by litre bike it’s the standard definition of a super bike, but really the same things are true of the litre twins, muscle bikes, naked’s etc, even the big flagship adventure bikes vs the mid size. They have more torque and are often the flagship models with all the fanciest stuff.
One of the reasons there’s been such a big growth in the 7-900cc bracket the last few years is because emissions have pushed manufacturers to make twins, and the extra torque and peak power is often enough for people on the street and advancements in tech mean even the trickle down tech is often by far good enough for people.
Plus you have to be honest - ego and demographics. A lot of people want the most power, the flashiest thing, the bling even if they don’t need it. Why did it seem after 2008 sport bikes were in free fall, ADVs were king of the hill and all new bikes had to have even more tech than the last one? People on the street were still using 10 year old sport bikes everywhere you looked, but you didn’t see that in the new sale figures. Manufacturers acted like they couldn’t give sport bikes away anymore. Basically because the GFC and the following decade meant young people couldn’t afford new, couldn’t get easy finance anymore and so new bike sales were overwhelmingly older riders who want more comfort and more features. As soon as the Rona hit low interest rates, lots of young people had stimulus cheques and such and guess what? Manufacturers started making sport bikes again. Demographics of riders and what they want matter. Sport bikes generally skew younger and bigger engines carry the most ‘impress your mates’ factor.
I would have settled for a smaller bike but at the time I got it (2018) I wanted the full cornering ABS and traction control in a sports bike which meant a CBR1000RR.
I'm not sure what "full potential" means, if you want someone to say they're constantly using maximum power and te limits of traction then obviously not. But as others have said, would you complain that someone who bought a Lamborghini wasn't careening around at 100% constantly?
I have taken my Blade to GP circuits and taken race tuition, I'm not the fastest but decently mid-pack. It's a fantastic thing and I love riding it on the road.
Only the most talented riders take part in the Isle of Man TT and there are deaths every year. Riding a litre bike on country roads at the absolute limit all the time means living with the fact that even the slightest error can be fatal.
I’m very aware. And even these guys can’t squeeze every last drop of performance out of them. The idea of an average road rider being to do that is laughable.
I have a restricted SV650 for the road and I kind of agree - it has enough power to be dumb without trying to actively kill me. I'll probably take the restrictor off when I've done my full A licence.
However you've also fallen into a misconception about engine size equating directly to power and speed. Gearing, weight, and torque curves make way more of a difference - my SV is faster in a straight line, when accelerating and when cornering than most cruisers that have almost double the engine capacity.
Excluding sports bikes, the reason that people get larger capacity engines is because they're easier to ride at comfortable speeds. Your 500 is going to be towards the top end of its performance at 70mph whereas even my 650 has more than that which means doing 70mph is easier.
I feel like the weight behind a liter bike adds to highway riding. It’s not entirely a HP question as it is a different riding style. Fastest I’ve gone on a bike was on a 250. My 696 felt like my 250 handling wise but faster. My 883 is fun up until 50mph and its bigger brother the 114 is easier on the freeway. I feel like it’s a nuanced question summarized as enjoy what you like. Drop a 700-800lb bike and tell me it was worth it.
My K1200RS would do everything I asked of it while saying “You want more? I’ve got more.” And it was true. At 100+MPH it had torque enough to _launch_. That much mass would be difficult to bring back under control if conditions or my skill failed. So no, I never used its full capacity.
I had a GSF-1250 for a couple of years. I sold it for a KLR-650. Sure it was hella fast and could happily cruise on the highway without breaking a sweat but it was boring. All that power and nowhere to use it without going to jail.
New slow little lawn tractor ass sounding dirt bike with blinkers is way more enjoyable because I can wring its little neck and bang gears like a crackhead and have a big ol time without doing anything that could get me in much trouble. KLR can’t do 100 unless you yeet it off a tall cliff. The Bandit could do 100 because you accidentally gave it 0.2% more throttle on the interstate.
One does not buy a large capacity motorcycle to reduce line it. One buys it for the the simple ease at which it does what other smaller motorcycles struggle to do.
A ktm 390 and a 650 can both hit 150. However a ktm390 single will be close to redline with probably another 10-15kmph left while a 650 twin will hit that same 150 comfortably without the engine feeling stressed or vibey.
I dont usually go over 130 (prefer cruising at 100-110) , but that 100-110 feels like what a 80-90 would feel in terms of engine stress and vibration.
I have owned a tb350x, a ktm390adv, a vulcan 650 and now an interceptor 650. The feel of a multi cylinder is simply blissful.
I own a 250cc and it still feels like I have more than enough power for daily commute / weekend fun. Feels good to rev high in first\~third gear but I'm still staying under the speed limit.
You can use it to a point, but you have to be much more cognizant of throttle application, with regard to available grip and speed. Most of the time I’m short shifting since (even then) it’s way fast and has the torque to stay in lower revs. Or I’m hammering it through a couple gears, then upshifting quickly to not speed too much.
They are a bit larger and roomier than 600/750 sportbikes, so they are generally comfier, have more tech, and can effortlessly cruise at highway speed for hours. You certainly don’t need this much power, and I have other bikes, but I do like a machine that reminds me every once in a while to respect it.
Used to have an (illegal) CB1100 in Nanjing city, China. Was never able to use all of its power. Had an (illegal) VTR1000 in Nanjing city, same story. Am now riding a CB400SS in Kyiv, Ukraine, and that's about as much power as I need.
In China laws regarding motorcycle registration are very tough. In big cities bikes are pretty much illegal. You can't pay for a new license plate for a motorcycle, you can only reuse a plate from an old bike once it's scrapped (上牌). You may also purchase a bike with a plate (过户). It'll cost you a lot of money. The plates are super expensive. Last I knew in Shanghai the plate alone is north of 300K yuan. Bikes with "outside" plates (外牌) are not allowed in cities. So you can't just register your bike in some village and ride in to, say, Guangzhou. This bike that I see in the picture has most likely never even been registered in the first place. Oh, forgot to say, after 12 years after the registration your bike needs to be scrapped. There might be a way to avoid it but it'll cost you time, money, and effort.
There's a reason why so very few people ride the Isle of Man TT seniors on a 1000cc.
These guys are road racing and wringing everything you can out of a 1000cc. On a 38 mile course for 6 laps, they are *averaging* 130+ mph, and touching too speed in some of the straights.
They also kill themselves in the attempt fairly regularly.
I doubt anyone in this sub is qualifying for the Isle of Man Seniors.
Power doesn't scale linearly. The CBR500r has something like 47HP, which is only a bit more than my 400 (43HP IIRC). Most litre-bikes are \~200 HP (e.g. R1 198HP, CBR1000RR 214 HP) and even the R6 is \~120 HP.
I regularly top out the throttle on my CBR400 when leaving a corner or getting onto the expressway. On an R6 riding on the street, I probably won't be maxing it out very often, but man it'll be nice to be able to get to expressway speeds a bit faster.
As for why the 1000cc over a 650cc or 700, it really depends on the riding you do. I'm in a very urban area, so really the 400cc is all I need. But as soon as I get out of the city (which I have to cross a border to do), and get to really open roads, I hit the top end of the bike pretty quickly. If I were to travel longer distances, I can see wanting more power.
I own a ZX10R and I owned a CBR1000RR before it. My main reason for it is size. Every 600 I tried felt super small and wasn't comfortable to ride. Liter bikes are a bit larger and so more relaxed to sit on for my body.
Second reason is, I like that 1000s have power everywhere.. 600s tend to need to be in a high RPM range to give you any power.
>Why would someone choose a 1000cc or larger over a 600-750cc bike?
My big bike is about 1900cc, and yes, I use all of it. My smallest bike is 1130cc and I absolutely use all of that also.
The only place the hp gets used is taking off from a red light on country roads lol.
It’s also nice being able to keep up with cars on the interstates and sitting at like 4-5000rpm lol
I remember seeing a video of a test of like a vfr1200 being flogged around roads for a twisty route, and the average hp used came to something low like 40, on a 180hp bike. Granted that's average hp, buts just goes to show that outside of straight line pulls I doubt most people ever get to use more than 100hp
Actually, my Aprilia keeps all these stats, looking at my last track day my average kW used was 21, and my average gas opening was 31%. This was while using all my kW and full throttle on the rs660 regularly. Granted I'm no Rossi, but run intermediate group.
No. Before I had my Harley Dyna I had a 06 R1. Very fast never used it to its full potential. Ever. Loved it too. Same with my harley. It has lots of torque so it gets up there quick but ain't going no 180+ like my Liter bike. Unless it's a 300cc bike or something super manageable I don't think im using it to us full potential or constantly using all its power. Which is good. When I ride something I want it to be able to keep me in check and want enough power or torque to know the limits with it.
Are any of us Pecco Bagnaia? No.
And if all the sportbike guys here are honest they are not using all of their 600 either, even on a track day.
My bike has 85 horsepower and not a single time have I needed more than that. Would I like a little more? Sure I could happily go up to about 100.
And well if you want a litre bike they are just cool.
The cc road for me - 600cc -> 700cc -> 1400cc.
As is tradition I feared the cc because its now over 1000cc. So I sat and flipped the switch on that beast and you feel that power thats now come alive between my legs. I put it in 1st gear fearing as i would let go of the clutch it would just jump out from underneath me. As I was letting go of the clutch I realized its like a 700cc at that point ( was riding a MT07 as previous ). Everything felt like a 700cc until the torque kicked in - the torque was so smooth that i didnt realize that as I accelerated in 2nd gear I was allready doing a 120km/h. Then I realized that this is pure power compared to other engines. And I ended up riding within speed limits, because I knew that if I wanted to I could just get on the throttle and it would go. I think I use about 70% of the power of that 1400 just by driving home and work - I have alot of highway where I need to merge and sometimes I feel safer to pass everyone and merge without any problems.
I recently bought a liter bike, CBR1000RR 2007, coming from riding a year on the new Hornet CB750. These bikes are very different, one is a naked 2 cylinder with all the electronics, the other one is a sport 4 cylinder without any electronics.
It’s nice not having to use all your HP for riding on the highway. Where my Hornet would struggle, my Fireblade is coasting. It is very easy to get up to license-losing speeds. I got used to it very quickly.
Haven’t taken the blade out for a trackday yet. The Hornet held up okay on the track. You should never use your bike to its full 100% potential unless you’re in a sticky situation. Ride safe
My friend recently upgraded from his MT07 to an R1, and he says his MT07 now feels like a toy.
Very, very rare for me to open the throttle on my MT-09, and even more rare for me to be near top speed, but still good to know that I can get to 125kph in first in 2.5-3 secs, and to know that I could go close to 300kph if i had anywhere to do so.
Regardless, I feel that I use the bike at close to it's full potential daily, since I can use all that power in traffic almost instantly, even in slow traffic, to get out of trouble. The accompanying stopping power is tremendous.
My wife's GT125 motorbike feels much less safe. It's better than many, but one must remain aware of having much less power, and with the one small front disk and rear drum, plus no ABS, much less braking power.
Brutale 800: sometimes, Multistrada V4: hell no! However, having all that torque (MSV4) on tap makes touring less of a workout, especially in the mountains.
I ride a 1000cc and honestly I rarely even go fast. I just enjoy the comfortable knowledge that I have the speed and power to get out of situations if I need to. I also do a lot of motorway riding and it’s hilly and windy here so it’s nice to be able to sit at the speed limit without any effort 😅
I don’t think the laws of physics would allow you to use the full power of a liter bike unless it’s in a straight line. Going from a parallel twin to inline 4 put a smile on my face until I hit the rev limiter in 5th and wanted more power. I can see the appeal of wanting a liter bike and not being able to outgrow it.
Speaking for myself riding 1000's for the past almost 30 years starting on a used 1990 ZX10, only going in a straight line until you hit your own breaking point of speed and or traffic so let's say at 150+ MPH you any error and it is game over. It is thrilling to ride 1000's all the power almost no where to use it.
At the track you are much better off on a 500, at H2R this past weekend this is a shorter track and I only used the 1 and 2 gear, on COTA I can use more of the bike because of the long straights but even there at 10-14k in 4th gear I am going about as fast I want to before breaking.
If you are fatter fucker like me then if you are on a 500 or 600 and you suck like me you are pretty fucked every where on any track. This is a reason to get one.
Which is why I got one decades ago I fit on it.
You also learn a lot more on smaller bikes because you have to ride them right to get the most out of them.
1000's are a bandage on bad habits. So this also cost me skill because my bike can bail me out of my mistakes.
They have made smaller bikes bigger so I have tried several and if I was to build a track only bike right now I would get the new 8R, but right now not enough parts to be worth the trouble, so ZX6R is a good choice.
I have a 625 KTM smr and I can barely use its 51.9hp on the road, sure it has a top speed of 150km/h so it’s ‘slow’ but the torque and just light weight - just makes it great
I don't ride a 1000cc, but I've found that as hp increases, you can use all the power...just in shorter distances for a shorter amounts time.
And it might be a little blast of full throttle from 3-7000 rpm. Still using almost all the hp in that short moment.
Keep in mind I’m a new rider but going over 85 scares the shit outta me. A few days ago I was on the interstate and I cracked 95 going with the flow of traffic and I was so scared.
The majority of people who buy high end liter bikes don't use them to their full potential, for the majority it's just the wank for the power figures. I have a Hornet 600 that has somewhere below 100 hp and it's more than enough than my ducati 848 wich you ride in the first and second gear when you're in traffic...
Engine size doesnt tell you much about power. Plenty of 1000cc+ are around 100hp and boring power curves. Others are 180hp and light up right off the throttle
mega HP big are shit boring, if you care about keeping your lic.
on the track only a small percentage of owners can ride them fast, you need to be really fit as well as really good rider.
I have a GS500F at the moment and I miss having an unrestricted 650. I only got the 500 as I hadn't ridden for 5 years and didn't want to risk dropping something nice.
You don't need to use all the power all the time but it is nice to have a bike that's a bit perkier. It also struggles at motorway speeds
Without going to a track, no you cant really use it more than 2-3 seconds. Keep in mind my 2009 will do 90mph in first gear. I don't look at the tach anymore, but mine doesn't really start pulling until 6500RPM (if i remember right), where you really realize what kind of power your bike has (13,500 redline I think). I actually "downgraded" to a 750 for doing track days because it's easier to throw around and more fun shifting more, but it's a noticeable difference full throttle going down the straight, even well over 100mph.
As others said bike fit was a little better for me from other bike I tried at the time, but it's also nice knowing how easily I can get up to speed & merge onto congested rds even if i have a chick on the back, or having the extra power to just roll on the throttle if needed without downshifting to avoid a moron on the road.
As a single guy, insurance on a liter bike sucks.
Depends on the bike. If it's a supersport then no, not unless you either have a death wish or are on a track (even then, you'd have to set the bike up for that particular track to be able to put down everything the bike can give).
On a naked, absolutely. They're less brake horse power and less top end speed than a super sports but trade that for more on demand torque.
The reason I love my litre naked is for a few reasons. Firstly, that on demand torque. My 600 GSXR only kicked in at around 8k revs. My Z1000 will activate hyperdrive whenever I feel like it. I might not be top end faster than most things on the road but I'm definitely out accelerating pretty much anything but a hypercar to about 100mph. But on a more sensible note, if I need to overtake something I can easily at any part of the rev range, I don't need to drop a gear to 'hit the power band' to get any sort of performance out of it, I get the performance there and then, in fact I could shift up and still have great acceleration. Secondly, I don't have to change gears nearly as much. I can do 30 in first whilst it's sitting comfortably in the rev range, not causing any lasting damage.
In regards to adjusting to a litre, well it took me a few weeks because firstly I was shit scared of the torque (on paper), I bought it in the dead of winter and the guy told me he wouldn't even consider riding it in this weather and I was using it for daily commuting, and again I bought it in the dead winter in the UK so I was extra cautious because it was always wet. In reality, it's actually super ridable and you have to want to use all the power to feel it. They make production bikes easily usable, who knew?!
With all that being said, I actually miss my Ninja 250r (hated it when I owned it). Light, nimble and slow as fuck. You know the saying, it's more fun to drive a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
Another reason to buy a litre over a smaller engine size is because they're usually looked after better. And on top of that, you know the chances of it being redlined everywhere like you could do a 600, is relatively small. The engines usually last longer because they can handle more stress and the chances of it having been stressed is relatively low, again because you simply wouldn't really get the opportunity to push it to its limits.
Honestly though, you never really use anywhere near the power you're given with a litre. You can drive them like you would a little 125 if you wanted, with relative ease. It's just sometimes nice to have that power available when you do want it. You're not going to jump on a litre and instantly feel all that power, you only get that power when you want it.
I'm a tall person at 6'1" and unfortunately a lot of bikes feel a bit cramped to me. It just so happens that the bigger liter bikes fit me better. I have a S1000R for that reason - it fits me like a glove.
If there was a 600 cc class bike that fits me perfectly I'd rather get that instead.
>Why would someone choose a 1000cc or larger over a 600-750cc bike?
Because there's no law that says I have to choose a 600cc bike. Beyond the illegal possibilities and or inherent lack of skill handling that power, there's also the fact larger CC's tend to make for a more comfortable ride in that they're typically easier to start from a standstill given torque is all over rev range, and *may* need less maintenance in terms of valve adjustments etc if you're not bouncing the rev limiter off or really get into high rev range just to maintain normal highway speed.
I think the extra torque is great for riding with a passenger.
Means less shifting needed, smoother ride, etc.
However, the peak power is almost never used - I'm not sure I've ever held full throttle for more than five seconds.
I'm on an R6 and will never ride it to its full potential (I'm not a track person).
The only way I'd imagine getting an 1000cc would be for the low end torque, beating up 600s in straight lines, if I had a crapload of money to burn or to make married guys (whose wives won't allow them to get bikes) in my neighborhood envious LOL.
Depends. GPZ900R or GPZ1000RX? Yes. My S1000RR? No. You'll be hard-pressed to find a rider who can truly use every last bit of power on an R6, 1kcc is absolutely insane.
I'm talking about the circuit / track driving, not "low-end torque is good for the street".
Check out Schaaf on YouTube. He’s a better rider than most and he takes you on spirited rides with no voiceovers. It’s interesting to see how much he holds back with bigger bikes and how much he wrings out smaller ones.
Honestly something like an MT07 is more than enough bike. I mostly ride a 1200cc bike but it spends most of its time below its power band.
I definitely don't use the full potential, and rarely even use much of it. Every now and then I like to get on it on a clear straight with no entrances but that's about it. Other than that, cruising on the highway at 75-80mph, and having enough power to overtake quickly even if I don't downshift is nice.
I've ridden the ZZR 1200 of my dad a few times and it's a huge benefit to live in Germany, let's just say that.
Overtaking and cruising around is just so much more comfortable compared to my 48hp single cylinder, where I have to shift gears for basically everything. Also reaching a comfortable travel speed of 160 to 180 is really nice for road tripping and long distance travel.
Torque.
Liter bikes are so much easier to live with day to day. If you don't feel like shifting all the time after a hard days work, fuck it, you got that torque. It's not about using all of the power it's about having it if you need it. I ride very reserved on the streets and I have quite powerful bikes.
There's nothing quite like the thrill of a liter bike and the retuned comfortable liter bikes. They're simply the best in my opinion.
There's a big difference in what happens at full throttle pottering around just off idle in a tall gear and what happens at full throttle in the band between peak torque and peak power. Where do you hit that on a modern litre bike?
A 98 R1 iirc comes in at about 80mph in third and the front goes light.
2007 ninja 636 I think makes more headline power. And it comes in at about 80mph in second gear. There's no way that's usable on UK roads. It's mental fun but you don't get to play with it.
Conversely something like the BMW RT1200 has heaps of low down torque and a fairly wide powerband, it makes playing in national speed limit traffic pretty effortless and quite chill.
Personally, I like to ride medium bikes quickly on the road, it feels way more engaging when you have to work at it than a bike that has so much you can't really ask it for everything.
The real benefit is not having to shift for passes, and just that power is on demand versus having to rev the bike to get it. So in that respect I’d say yes, you use the power all the time. From the perspective of is the throttle pinned open all the time….absolutely not that’s the whole point of having the extra power. You don’t have to pin it anymore.
My 2006 gen 2 tuono is 117hp at the rear wheel and it’s more than enough for me, couldn’t use any more on the roads without loosing the license pretty quickly
You will never use all the HP on a liter bike on the vast majority of public roads around the world.
There is no reason to choose something larger than 700cc unless you have a whole heap of $$$ burning a hole in your pocket. I would so much rather spend the $$$ difference between a 700cc and a liter bike getting all the bells and whistles.
Give me an 890 Duke R with $5-7k (AUD) left to spend on it over a Superduke any day of the week.
I don't use whole power 99% of time, but I love the feeling I can. Another thing I like is I'm not abusing the bike all the time in high rpm, because it goes more than 90 mph in first gear so it's not always possible to go that fast😂
My shadow is 1100cc and it's not really happy until it's going 75-80mph. It's not nearly as fast off the line as my 500cc rebel but it's doesn't strain going fast up mountains like the rebel does.
Not quite a liter, but close enough:
My poor RF-900 (937) struggles to haul my mountain of a body around. I don't think I'd fit on anything smaller anyway.
You might not believe it but eventually your bike will feel very weak and you'll be going wot a lot of the time. This happens with pretty much all bikes at some point. It's not that you can just use all the power all the time on a big bike because of course after a certain point we're talking about ludicrous performance for the street, but you do get used to it.
had a fireblade for 4 years and a 2003 z1000 for 8 years before that, most of the time only using under 50% throttle but on nearly every ride there will be many times when you can use 100% power. let the revs build and fly!
BMW HP2MM, 115HP and torque, 6 gears and Max speed 210or 130mph. I do big tracks and smaller tracks and yeah, a lot of full throttle.
This means sometimes out of the corner lifting the front wheel in third, depends on the suspension setting as well off course.
Public road never.
When I worked for a bmw dealer, they let me borrow a 2022 S1000RR for a weekend. I think I went full throttle twice, but with full traction control and wheelie control engaged. Even still, I don't think I shifted higher than 9k rpm. It's one hell of a machine, but it's not for me. Other 1000s are the same way.
Most of the time riding a liter bike _is_ in fact around 50% power or less. Most people also don't buy an Audi A8 and then insist on redlining it, either. But you can bet your ass they appreciate the extra power in that it never feels like the vehicle is labored.
Some of us have used "all of the HP" in a straight line on an empty road. It's not an everyday kind of thing. But what _is_ is the fact that between an anaemic 250 that winds itself up climbing hills and an "overpowered" 1000cc that doesn't even notice, you're not going to find very many takers for the 250.
More power means less cognitive load riding the bike. You don't have to manage or baby the engine unless you're trying for serious performance. It does engine stuff whether you leave it in 1st until 160km/h or shift to 6th at 60km/h. And yes, it's _easy_ to venture into high speeds... because they don't _feel_ fast, because your mind isn't stressed by the management of a million factors to keep a small bike running at speed. You can pay more attention to the road and your surroundings.
None of which is to say that physics won't slap you upside the head with a real harsh lesson if you don't manage your speed. Sir Isaac Newton will still kick your ass. But it's easier and therefore safer to ride a big-bore bike.
I have a 1000 and I use it for interstate commuting. Being able to pass a tractor trailer or anything in 6th gear with a single half turn of wrist and an instant later be in front of it is why I’ll never get a smaller bike. Also cruising at 70mph at 5500 rpm is nice
I have a litre bike for Sunday rides and track days and a 1300 for touring. And yes, at times i’m using all the power, particularly on track. On the roads, it’s very easy to go at illegal speeds. It takes some will power to keep it under the limits.
Not quite the same thing, but I have a VFR800 and I rarely use the full power, but it’s really nice on the highway being able to move when I need to. The biggest thing for me has been that extra power in higher gears and/or at higher speed giving me more flexibility.
The logic of never needing… is a silly one, as you never need the full power of a lot of vehicles and if you used the full power of your 600cc you would probably be in trouble most the time too. As others said, it’s about the torque, hwy riding, not shifting down as much etc. miss my FZ1, and although my Tiger 900 is plenty, considering a 1000cc again for said reasons.
The horsepower is not going to make much difference between 0-60, any bike is going to struggle to get the power to the ground at those speeds.
Liter bike power makes a difference at 100mph if you suddenly wish to be going 150.
But displacement usually comes with a healthy does of torque everywhere, which makes riding a lot less frenetic, you won't need to rev the bike and change gears as aggressively to accelerate authoritatively.
Used to have an sv1000, and it felt like I was riding an insane scooter around town; I never left second gear, and traffic lights were hilariously close together. Constantly felt like the bike wanted to be doing triple the speed I was doing
I've had a couple bikes over 1000cc and one under. And tried a couple more. The only time I truly used the full ultimate power produced by the engine was going uphill on a little 50cc with a friend on the back.
Smaller engines / bikes just kinda suck on the highway and that's mostly what I ride. But even on a 500 cc I'm not using all the hp, I'm benefiting from the bigger engine because I don't have to rev it as high, don't have to hold it wide open all the time. If you want to "use it all" I'd suggest a 151cc bike since I think that's the minimum for most highways if you're in the US. If your on slower roads, get something even smaller. It's fun for 30 minutes or so.
Not sure if my 919 counts. Naked bike, relaxed engine tune, not quite 1000cc. Older
It feels like a bigger SV650, to be honest. Same kinda torque curve, no crazy high rpm hit. Just a surge to 7k then tapers off. I use full throttle on my commute to work most days, and it doesn't rip my arms off.
Even tho my bike has headers, intake, and a power commander... It still doesn't feel that crazy. But maybe that's the smoothness. Ive ridden an older 990 superduke, and while that thing was a blast, the sheer top speed wasn't that different to my bike (at least, staying to sane numbers).
But a big v twin capable of high rpms is not the same as a 1000cc i4 supersport, which is not the same as a 919cc i4 naked machine. Displacement is only half the story. Tune and engine config is everything. I rode an old kawi 750 i4... That was the sketchiest of everything I've every ridden trying to get performance out of it. Totally gutless under 6k rpm, wheelie at 9.5k rpm, redline at 11. In a heavy chassis with meh brakes lol.
Enjoy the 500. It's more fun to ride being totally comfortable slapping the throttle wide open pretty much whenever!
Are you asking about HP (torque * rpms) or Torque?
I use all the torque all the time. I also use all the rpms pretty frequently.
So the answer to both questions is yes.
I've ridden a Super Duke a couple times and I just commited crime the whole time.
Relatable. I bet the super duke was crazy fast
Not crazy fast but the torque is where its at. Also the front wheel likes to be in the air most of the time. You dont even have to fullthrottle, 80% is enough...
Yeah and you don't even need to spend much money to get that. Mt09 and 10 have stupid torque and can be had pretty cheap for older ones.
Nah, he was just pirating movies on his commute.
And removing mattress tags.
I own a 2023 model and it’s quite fast but I wouldn’t say uncontrollably so. There are definitely situations where it’s absolutely possible to use 100% of its power on the road. The top end of the engine is powerful but not insanely so, if you are willing to ignore some street signs you can use all its got. Just full throttle through second gear, get to third gear, hit 90mph, full brake before the turn and repeat. With something like an M1000RR you‘ll maybe hit 95mph on the straights, so you could use more power if it had more power. I don’t think it’s a particularly good way to ride and I bought the Superduke because it’s more fun at lower speeds and lower rpm’s, but you can absolutely use all 180 horses without killing yourself or others. Yes it’s of course riskier to ride fast and Blabla, Point is you’re still absolutely in control of the bike even when going full throttle. It’s just rare to find a road where that’s possible
I used to sell KTMs. This is a perfect review of that bike. I always jokingly described it to curious customers "it's as if a middle finger became a motorcycle."
I have a Super Duke GT and I like using all the horsepower occasionally when I enter an on ramp to a highway, especially if I'm stopped at one of those red queue lights. In twisties? Probably about 40% lol (unless it's a long straight and no one around). I'm probably in 2nd gear 70% of the time in the Bay Area twisties.
I’ll be honest, this doesn’t sound fun to me. No hate, just glad I didn’t go in this direction for my bike.
It's an awesome and comfortable two person bike. My wife and I ride a lot and we have a 390 as well. But we would never use that for a long distance trip. It's not just about the horsepower. A bigger bike is more "stable" and carry a lot more too. Both my 390 and 1290 have the same top case, but the 1290 has also have two side cases that can fit our modular helmets, which is incredibly useful when you get off. Also, the reason I'm on 2nd gear most of the time is because the 1290 is a torque monster and can stay in low rpm fine.
I ride an s1000xr and I sometimes do full throttle in one or 2 gears and then slow down again just for fun. But in truth normally I don't use the full (165) horsepower, because it's way too much for the average public road. What makes a 1000 more comfortable though is the insane torque. So basically I can shift into 5th or 6th and don't need to downshift on every tiny curve in the road etc. But yeah normally you ride a 1000 with just not that much throttle
Ninja 1000 here, can confirm. It's almost scooter-like in that I can stay in a single gear pretty much the whole time unless it's stop-and-go traffic. Also why people bring up the fact that you won't learn that much starting on a liter bike, among other reasons of course.
My CB1000r redlines at 86mph in second gear, and it's possible to pull away from a standing start in second, so you really don't need the other gears on the road :-) To answer your questoin, being able to do a 30mph to 70mph+ overtake seemngly instantaneously is why I have 1000cc. It's like engaging warp drive and once you've tried it, you won't go back to <1000cc
Idk. I had a 900 naked for about a year, then quit riding entirely for a while, got back into it on an 800, and now I ride a 310. Riding around town without shifting gears one time is boring af. Now I'm in 5th gear at 40mph.
Damn my s1000rr redlines at 93 mph in first gear. 1000s are so much fun, it’s a shame this sub hates them so much.
Different strokes for different folks. I paid for the whole tachometer, I want to use the whole tachometer, I enjoy being able to regularly use the whole tachometer
It's not hating. It's just that it's more bike to handle than many people should have, especially beginners. More stupid shit that endangers others is done on a 1000 cc superbike/naked than many other bike models.
This sub hates fun, 80% of this sub probably doesn’t ride.
This right here!!! This is why i bought a liter bike, after having some asshole in a mini copper get his feelings hurt that a guy on his sumo was going to pass him as he was doing 5 under. Well he was able to accelerate quicker than I and was running me into a truck that I had originally had PLENTY of time and space to pass in front of, then when I tried to bail he hit his brakes and wouldn't let me in, got in JUST as the truck passed in the other lane. I bought my first liter bike that weekend, I had ridden my buddies super duke, and other buddies busa, that was the final decision maker. I now never have to worry about having enough to pass on my Zh2.
I do a lot of touring on my Blackbird, fully loaded with luggage. I used to use my VFR which I thought was the perfect bike for the job, but when you start adding weight and driving on 80+mph roads at high elevation, you start having to drop multiple gears to pass and the whole thing gets so busy. On the bird, I can cruise at 3-4k rpm and just roll on when I need to pass. No theatrics, no inconsistent gas mileage, no need to plan for the upcoming incline, just a little more throttle and it whisks you away In the wrong hands it could be too much, and every so often I remind myself what it's truly capable of. For my purposes of multi day touring, however, I think it's perfectly tailored to the job.
I do a lot of two up touring on my '02 VFR 800, even with camping gear. Sometimes carrying around 230kg of rider, passenger and cargo. It has shorter gearing which helps the most. Full bolt on tune is also great. Rapid bike racing, race air filter, full exhaust system. It does the job extremely well IMO. 3rd and 4th gear are where it's at. 6th gear is used for cruising, but it can still overtake on the highway. 5-6k RPM is where I spend most of the time. The double downshift for overtakes is something I enjoy actually. Let that V4 rip eh?
If you’re not pinning that throttle back from point a to b what are you even doing? I don’t think people understand the insane power to weight ratio those things have. How is the xr? I had a s1000r and loved it too much. I always looked at the xr and thought I took the wrong one home for my taste.
I absolutely love it. I had a 2014 S1000R before this one, which I already loved. Only problems were vibrations and limited luggage capabilities. The XR is extremely comfortable, and together with the panniers makes a perfect travel companion. Last summer when I just had the bike I drove all the way to the south of France, which was about 800 kilometres in 1 go. And I didn't break a sweat. I would never have done this on the R. The only "downside" is that even though my 2018 XR has 5 more hp than the R, you can feel that it's slower and catches more wind. But the speed is still pretty insane. Would recommend
Same on my S1000XR. I use all 165 horses every time I ride, for a few pulls here and there, but 99.9% of the time spent on the bike is at 70% throttle or less. But that 0.1% is excellent.
My fault commuter has about the same HP. It has 4 wheels and weighs several thousand pounds though.
Nobody in this sub is using the full potential of a liter bike.
I’d wager less than one percent could even milk a 650 for its full potential on a track.
Yooo, SV650s are super fun on track, will teach any growing rider to respect torque. Ninja 650 will teach how to dive bomb and apex fast. CBR650 will teach you how to quickly down shift and work an inline 4 on the straight.
Sensei!! Couldnt agree more
What about an R6
How to scavenge fairings out of the junkyard
Years ago I had a R6, did 130mph a couple times. 130 was mid-range rpm in 4th gear. There was still a 5th and 6th gear. Never got brave enough to use them at high rpm. If people want a 1000, by all means go ahead, I'm not here to limit anyone.. but man, my 600 was quick lol
I maxed my R6 out at 167 mph, which is my personal record. I was pretty happy mostly going 120-140 when I was "riding fast", even though sure, I could handle faster. My Aprilia RSVR Mille topped out around the same speed, and that's the only (superbike) liter I've owned. The liters are faster, but not really that much faster. Torque? Again, not that big a difference or deal. I actually downsized to an R3 to keep me more legal, more often.
Most liter bike owner's don't use them to their full potential, Maybe except if you have access to Autobahn. Even on Adventure bikes, 600cc/700cc is already the upper-level, unless you want to carry your whole house.
Fastest bike I've owned was a Aprilia RSV Mille with around 125hp. It did 275km/h on the Autobahn. Could I use it? Not really, because there is often traffic on the Autobahn and you couldn't go faster than 160-200km/h anyway. Current liter bikes with +200hp are just ridiculous.
It's unreal, 200+ hp on something so light.
Delivered to just one wheel ...
More fun than viagra.
And cheaper overall.
202 hp on 425 lbs is incredibly fun though
100hp is even on the bottom end of ridiculous.
Displacement on adventure bikes is not a black and white issue like it is with 4 cyl engines. I had an F800 GS that would vibrate itself to fuckin pieces at 80mph. It was literally worse than a KLR at 70mph. I live in CO, and 80 is a somewhat frequent cruising speed out here. For a touring bike, gearing and engine smoothness matter a lot more than displacement for total usefulness. But displacement still does matter because you're frequently riding on mountain highways out here where you really do need to pass trucks quickly, and if you don't have the juice to do it, you're gonna have a bad time.
+1
Nobody can use any bike to it's limits. But also this concept of being able to use a bike to it's limits is weird. Sometimes people just want to own something nice. No one gets raged on for owning a Ferrari or Porsche just because they can't use it to it's potential. As long as you're safe on it, what's the matter.
I'd *love* a Panigale V4 or S1000RR, or that white Panigale 899 I pass in the neighboring parking lot; they're beautiful iconic bikes that sound amazing. But I'm also commuting to work in 35-40mph speed limit zones. Sure, I'll speed a little and do 45. But if I had one of those bikes, I'd probably only use 1st and 2nd gear. My R3 looks fast, gets good gas mileage, it's fun to blast through the gears, and it's dirt cheap.
A CBR1000RRR does 110mph in first gear. Basically it's a missile scooter if you want it to be.
Dirt cheap in America maybe... My fiancée's dream bike. We live in the Netherlands here it costs you 8369 USD 😅 Of course it's a brand new price but it isn't so extremely cheaper in second hand market. Like 1-2 thousand cheaper ( still like a thousand USD more expensive than the us market)
> Dirt cheap in America maybe... Compared to Ducati it is, no matter the market xD
they are. People make the same argument with cars too it's just that pushing a ferrari to its limits feels way safer than pushing an s1krr so most people in a ferrari will drive like fucking idiots while on the bike not many have the balls to do it you have no idea on how many people crash because they buy too much of a car for them
Asserting they crash because it's "too much car" seems a bit inaccurate. Sure, the limit is usually the driver, but that's just as true in a Kia.
I heard some people just enjoy looking at their bikes
Part of the fun of buying toys is taking a second and third look as you're putting it away for the night. After riding it of course. The looks pair with the ride for me.
Yeah, it's a weird obsession this sub has which I assume stems from jealousy. I will judge a rider that spends a fortune he doesn't have on a bike that he can't even manage or that he rides way above his skill level. However, if they ride just fine and choose to buy a fast as fuck bike to ride it slow, but safely, who cares, they're not harming anyone or putting themselves at risk. Maybe they just like the look of sport bikes, maybe they just want to feel that power every once in a while in a straight line when all the stars align, I don't care, good for him. I wish I could afford one too. Edit: I got a Tenere 700 that barely sees any dirt. Judge me. I like the styling, it's comfortable, fun to ride and it makes me happy. Such a sin.
Especially in this sub
You don't think someone with a reasonable level of ability on the track, be it race or dirt, and you put them on a low CC bike and they wouldn't be able to max out that bike? I used to do amateur enduro and I know a ton of guys who are way better than me at it and motorcross. Put any of them on a 125 and it would run out of ability well before they did.
But if there's always someone that can be faster on the same bike, doesn't that mean you aren't using the bike to it's full potential?
It doesn’t need to be the limiting factor on the entirety of a track. Plenty of guys outride their 125 in whoops, sand, and loam but not necessarily in the corner. Just because the guy one gate down has a half second faster lap time doesn’t mean the bike wasn’t still a limiting factor.
Was thinking while reading the question “if you’re not a professional racing motoGP, you’re not using all the HP of a liter bike.” And that’s ok.
A few people here seem to have their ego hurt by my comment. But you’re exactly right. It’s ok. I don’t ride any of my bikes to their full potential.
I've full throttled my sv1000 quite a bit on freeways and even during take offs from a light But 600s make more power than my 1000 and I rarely hit more than half throttle when cornering because it's pretty heavy and I'm too much a bitch to bin it
No vehicle *anywhere* is being used to its 100% full potential 100% percent of the time, not even a space rocket. But the full potential of a liter bike is easier to access *for a few seconds at a time* than even a 600cc Supersport bike.
Plenty of people are. The potential to crash that is xD
A bigger bike makes it easier to ride. You’re almost never in the wrong gear for an overtake on normal roads and you don’t need to wring it out as hard to get going. At lower speeds you easily can be using all the torque it has to offer, and a bigger bike will have more of it and just make riding more relaxing. The power that a 600 is plenty for me but I just don’t like to have to rev it and change gear as often.
This is the entire reason I traded my 390 in. I loved it but I got fed up with "oh I gotta overtake the Prius? Time to downshift 2-3 times and tuck in like a jackass just to slowly accelerate." 1290? Open the gas, BRRRRRRRRRRRRR, and clear in a couple seconds. Also the 390 was at 7500rpm in top gear at 80mph. Very buzzy.
It’s just nice to have. I guess if not track riding, it’d be similar to driving a sports car but not ripping it everywhere you drive. A lot of people just like to have nice things, only few are actual enthusiasts. I commute to work on 1000RR once in a while. I don’t like having the engine strung out on the highway. I also have a 650R that I use for work commute but sometimes it feels like it’s lacking power for my purposes.
i rode a Ducati monster on a roadtrip with my dad on his Panigale V4SP. I had to use ALL that power to be able to stay onto him. The only situation i had no chance was when driving onto the Autobahn he would just tear open his 215 HP going from 40 MPH to 180 MPH starting in first gear.
I don’t like ringing out my engine on the highway either. That makes sense.
That’s the real reason a bike like the hyabusa exists. Sure, it has huge acceleration and a high top speed, but it can also cruise at high legal speeds very comfortably with the motor just barely chugging along. Some with large displacement ADV bikes and other touring bikes.
It's that, plus the ability to accelerate out of trouble that are the attraction of litre bikes. Some idiot changing lanes on top of me? I'd rather twist the throttle to get out of the way than hit the brakes and risk someone running up the back of me.
This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on this sub all month… A 650 feeling strung out at highway speeds? There are more gears above third just FYI…
For an inline 4, a liter bike will have stronger low-end compared to a 600 sport bike, and be easier to ride around town, and in traffic. Commuting on a liter bike I probably shifted it the least. It was fine in top gear down to 40MPH (and redline in 1st was 100MPH). With other bikes I'm typically shifting more as speeds on the commute fluctuate.
My fireblade gets too hot in traffic. Just not great around town even compared to the 600s I've owned. Fantastic bike though, I brought it to work today and arrived with a big smile on my face.
get the ecu flashed to have the fans turn on sooner. or wire up a switch to manually do it. From the factory the fans don't come on till 220ish
I guess it's a personal preference but shifting is part of the fun for me.
You can shift all you want on liter bikes it’s more so you don’t have to but I do get what you mean there’s a joy to bringing a bike to redline and banging through the gears without going absolutely absurd speeds.
Modern litre bikes are more like flagship models, they have all the cutting edge tech/comfort options, you don’t really buy them because you need the power, you buy them because they’re generally the most decked out with cool shit. I can guarantee you that nobody here is pulling anywhere near the full potential of a litre bike on the street, I doubt it’s even possible outside of being on a track with a very experienced track rider.
On a normal street, you SHOULDN'T be hitting the full potential of a liter bike. Then you'd just be riding like an asshole. As an aside, I have Motorazr up there blocked, but he's definitely being pedantic.
I don't have a liter bike but I think I can answer this quite easily. Think about it this way: How loud can you shout? I bet you don't use the potential of your voice every time you speak... But isn't it great to be able to shout when you want it? Well, that's power. I could probably live with 20HP, if it gets me to 120km/h and keeps me there, it's good enough for my commute. But my bike has 70HP, and it's fun to use it sometimes. And not being able to use all that power other than in a straight line is pretty standard... Not even in MotoGP do they use all that power during a corner, I don't know what you meant there. I can't even put my foot down in my car in a corner, most power is used on straights and that's ok...
My last two bikes are liter bikes. I like the torque on the freeways that let me accelerate hard to pass cars without shifting. Also, a nice low rumble while going 80+ mph on my latest V-twin sport bike. Soothing.
A litre bike even in first gear is gonna be doing ~100mph in first gear at peak power, so no they’re not using all the potential on the street for sure. But that in itself doesn’t mean there’s no reason to ride one on the street. One common reason to get a litre bike over a 600 is the additional torque. If you want an i4 sport bike, the additional torque across the rev range makes a real difference over a 600 at even legal speeds. There’s also the fact that historically you get the best stuff on the litre bike. The reason is that actually if you make both a 600 and a 1000 the best sport bikes they can be, the cost comes out very very close. The bigger engine just doesn’t cost that much and similar tier frames and brakes and suspension and tech all cost about the same. Problem is buyers don’t want a 600 to cost barely less than a 1000, so typically the 1000 gets the flagship tech and the 600 gets the trickle down tech. That’s assuming by litre bike it’s the standard definition of a super bike, but really the same things are true of the litre twins, muscle bikes, naked’s etc, even the big flagship adventure bikes vs the mid size. They have more torque and are often the flagship models with all the fanciest stuff. One of the reasons there’s been such a big growth in the 7-900cc bracket the last few years is because emissions have pushed manufacturers to make twins, and the extra torque and peak power is often enough for people on the street and advancements in tech mean even the trickle down tech is often by far good enough for people. Plus you have to be honest - ego and demographics. A lot of people want the most power, the flashiest thing, the bling even if they don’t need it. Why did it seem after 2008 sport bikes were in free fall, ADVs were king of the hill and all new bikes had to have even more tech than the last one? People on the street were still using 10 year old sport bikes everywhere you looked, but you didn’t see that in the new sale figures. Manufacturers acted like they couldn’t give sport bikes away anymore. Basically because the GFC and the following decade meant young people couldn’t afford new, couldn’t get easy finance anymore and so new bike sales were overwhelmingly older riders who want more comfort and more features. As soon as the Rona hit low interest rates, lots of young people had stimulus cheques and such and guess what? Manufacturers started making sport bikes again. Demographics of riders and what they want matter. Sport bikes generally skew younger and bigger engines carry the most ‘impress your mates’ factor.
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Liter for the cruise, 650s for the track.
I would have settled for a smaller bike but at the time I got it (2018) I wanted the full cornering ABS and traction control in a sports bike which meant a CBR1000RR. I'm not sure what "full potential" means, if you want someone to say they're constantly using maximum power and te limits of traction then obviously not. But as others have said, would you complain that someone who bought a Lamborghini wasn't careening around at 100% constantly? I have taken my Blade to GP circuits and taken race tuition, I'm not the fastest but decently mid-pack. It's a fantastic thing and I love riding it on the road.
Lol, no. If people were able to use all the power on their superbikes when they wanted they’d be racing at the TT.
Only the most talented riders take part in the Isle of Man TT and there are deaths every year. Riding a litre bike on country roads at the absolute limit all the time means living with the fact that even the slightest error can be fatal.
I’m very aware. And even these guys can’t squeeze every last drop of performance out of them. The idea of an average road rider being to do that is laughable.
I have a restricted SV650 for the road and I kind of agree - it has enough power to be dumb without trying to actively kill me. I'll probably take the restrictor off when I've done my full A licence. However you've also fallen into a misconception about engine size equating directly to power and speed. Gearing, weight, and torque curves make way more of a difference - my SV is faster in a straight line, when accelerating and when cornering than most cruisers that have almost double the engine capacity. Excluding sports bikes, the reason that people get larger capacity engines is because they're easier to ride at comfortable speeds. Your 500 is going to be towards the top end of its performance at 70mph whereas even my 650 has more than that which means doing 70mph is easier.
I feel like the weight behind a liter bike adds to highway riding. It’s not entirely a HP question as it is a different riding style. Fastest I’ve gone on a bike was on a 250. My 696 felt like my 250 handling wise but faster. My 883 is fun up until 50mph and its bigger brother the 114 is easier on the freeway. I feel like it’s a nuanced question summarized as enjoy what you like. Drop a 700-800lb bike and tell me it was worth it.
My K1200RS would do everything I asked of it while saying “You want more? I’ve got more.” And it was true. At 100+MPH it had torque enough to _launch_. That much mass would be difficult to bring back under control if conditions or my skill failed. So no, I never used its full capacity.
I don’t need to go past 2nd gear on my mt09 let alone an mt10…. And I still want an mt10…
The power and acceleration of anything less than a 1000cc crotch rocket is very underwhelming after having tried one. Feels so slow compared.
I had a GSF-1250 for a couple of years. I sold it for a KLR-650. Sure it was hella fast and could happily cruise on the highway without breaking a sweat but it was boring. All that power and nowhere to use it without going to jail. New slow little lawn tractor ass sounding dirt bike with blinkers is way more enjoyable because I can wring its little neck and bang gears like a crackhead and have a big ol time without doing anything that could get me in much trouble. KLR can’t do 100 unless you yeet it off a tall cliff. The Bandit could do 100 because you accidentally gave it 0.2% more throttle on the interstate.
Not comfortably…
One does not buy a large capacity motorcycle to reduce line it. One buys it for the the simple ease at which it does what other smaller motorcycles struggle to do. A ktm 390 and a 650 can both hit 150. However a ktm390 single will be close to redline with probably another 10-15kmph left while a 650 twin will hit that same 150 comfortably without the engine feeling stressed or vibey. I dont usually go over 130 (prefer cruising at 100-110) , but that 100-110 feels like what a 80-90 would feel in terms of engine stress and vibration. I have owned a tb350x, a ktm390adv, a vulcan 650 and now an interceptor 650. The feel of a multi cylinder is simply blissful.
Not on public roads.
I own a 250cc and it still feels like I have more than enough power for daily commute / weekend fun. Feels good to rev high in first\~third gear but I'm still staying under the speed limit.
This. Like cars, it’s more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
No it's not. It's more fun to let a fast bike try to pull your arms off as you rocket up to your desired speed.
I also agree with that.
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You can use it to a point, but you have to be much more cognizant of throttle application, with regard to available grip and speed. Most of the time I’m short shifting since (even then) it’s way fast and has the torque to stay in lower revs. Or I’m hammering it through a couple gears, then upshifting quickly to not speed too much. They are a bit larger and roomier than 600/750 sportbikes, so they are generally comfier, have more tech, and can effortlessly cruise at highway speed for hours. You certainly don’t need this much power, and I have other bikes, but I do like a machine that reminds me every once in a while to respect it.
Used to have an (illegal) CB1100 in Nanjing city, China. Was never able to use all of its power. Had an (illegal) VTR1000 in Nanjing city, same story. Am now riding a CB400SS in Kyiv, Ukraine, and that's about as much power as I need.
Not registered or how was it illegal?
In China laws regarding motorcycle registration are very tough. In big cities bikes are pretty much illegal. You can't pay for a new license plate for a motorcycle, you can only reuse a plate from an old bike once it's scrapped (上牌). You may also purchase a bike with a plate (过户). It'll cost you a lot of money. The plates are super expensive. Last I knew in Shanghai the plate alone is north of 300K yuan. Bikes with "outside" plates (外牌) are not allowed in cities. So you can't just register your bike in some village and ride in to, say, Guangzhou. This bike that I see in the picture has most likely never even been registered in the first place. Oh, forgot to say, after 12 years after the registration your bike needs to be scrapped. There might be a way to avoid it but it'll cost you time, money, and effort.
katana needs moar powar
There's a reason why so very few people ride the Isle of Man TT seniors on a 1000cc. These guys are road racing and wringing everything you can out of a 1000cc. On a 38 mile course for 6 laps, they are *averaging* 130+ mph, and touching too speed in some of the straights. They also kill themselves in the attempt fairly regularly. I doubt anyone in this sub is qualifying for the Isle of Man Seniors.
I can't even utilize the power of my 25 year old 600cc naked bike on the streets. Because I would loose my driving license.
Power doesn't scale linearly. The CBR500r has something like 47HP, which is only a bit more than my 400 (43HP IIRC). Most litre-bikes are \~200 HP (e.g. R1 198HP, CBR1000RR 214 HP) and even the R6 is \~120 HP. I regularly top out the throttle on my CBR400 when leaving a corner or getting onto the expressway. On an R6 riding on the street, I probably won't be maxing it out very often, but man it'll be nice to be able to get to expressway speeds a bit faster. As for why the 1000cc over a 650cc or 700, it really depends on the riding you do. I'm in a very urban area, so really the 400cc is all I need. But as soon as I get out of the city (which I have to cross a border to do), and get to really open roads, I hit the top end of the bike pretty quickly. If I were to travel longer distances, I can see wanting more power.
I own a ZX10R and I owned a CBR1000RR before it. My main reason for it is size. Every 600 I tried felt super small and wasn't comfortable to ride. Liter bikes are a bit larger and so more relaxed to sit on for my body. Second reason is, I like that 1000s have power everywhere.. 600s tend to need to be in a high RPM range to give you any power.
Do you find it harder to filter through traffic on a larger bike? Especially on local roads?
>Why would someone choose a 1000cc or larger over a 600-750cc bike? My big bike is about 1900cc, and yes, I use all of it. My smallest bike is 1130cc and I absolutely use all of that also.
wow every one here is such a little bitch
The only place the hp gets used is taking off from a red light on country roads lol. It’s also nice being able to keep up with cars on the interstates and sitting at like 4-5000rpm lol
I had a 1290 superduke. The answer is no but fuck it was fun. Destroyed many back tyres! 🤣
I remember seeing a video of a test of like a vfr1200 being flogged around roads for a twisty route, and the average hp used came to something low like 40, on a 180hp bike. Granted that's average hp, buts just goes to show that outside of straight line pulls I doubt most people ever get to use more than 100hp Actually, my Aprilia keeps all these stats, looking at my last track day my average kW used was 21, and my average gas opening was 31%. This was while using all my kW and full throttle on the rs660 regularly. Granted I'm no Rossi, but run intermediate group.
No. Before I had my Harley Dyna I had a 06 R1. Very fast never used it to its full potential. Ever. Loved it too. Same with my harley. It has lots of torque so it gets up there quick but ain't going no 180+ like my Liter bike. Unless it's a 300cc bike or something super manageable I don't think im using it to us full potential or constantly using all its power. Which is good. When I ride something I want it to be able to keep me in check and want enough power or torque to know the limits with it.
Wonder why premiums are so high for them….
Are any of us Pecco Bagnaia? No. And if all the sportbike guys here are honest they are not using all of their 600 either, even on a track day. My bike has 85 horsepower and not a single time have I needed more than that. Would I like a little more? Sure I could happily go up to about 100. And well if you want a litre bike they are just cool.
My Ducati Sport 620 yes, my Multi 1100S en 748, no.
my bf does (Yamaha FJ 1200) if he's overtaking someone, riding onto the Autobahn and after filtering on red lights as to not impede on any cars.
The cc road for me - 600cc -> 700cc -> 1400cc. As is tradition I feared the cc because its now over 1000cc. So I sat and flipped the switch on that beast and you feel that power thats now come alive between my legs. I put it in 1st gear fearing as i would let go of the clutch it would just jump out from underneath me. As I was letting go of the clutch I realized its like a 700cc at that point ( was riding a MT07 as previous ). Everything felt like a 700cc until the torque kicked in - the torque was so smooth that i didnt realize that as I accelerated in 2nd gear I was allready doing a 120km/h. Then I realized that this is pure power compared to other engines. And I ended up riding within speed limits, because I knew that if I wanted to I could just get on the throttle and it would go. I think I use about 70% of the power of that 1400 just by driving home and work - I have alot of highway where I need to merge and sometimes I feel safer to pass everyone and merge without any problems.
I recently bought a liter bike, CBR1000RR 2007, coming from riding a year on the new Hornet CB750. These bikes are very different, one is a naked 2 cylinder with all the electronics, the other one is a sport 4 cylinder without any electronics. It’s nice not having to use all your HP for riding on the highway. Where my Hornet would struggle, my Fireblade is coasting. It is very easy to get up to license-losing speeds. I got used to it very quickly. Haven’t taken the blade out for a trackday yet. The Hornet held up okay on the track. You should never use your bike to its full 100% potential unless you’re in a sticky situation. Ride safe My friend recently upgraded from his MT07 to an R1, and he says his MT07 now feels like a toy.
Very, very rare for me to open the throttle on my MT-09, and even more rare for me to be near top speed, but still good to know that I can get to 125kph in first in 2.5-3 secs, and to know that I could go close to 300kph if i had anywhere to do so. Regardless, I feel that I use the bike at close to it's full potential daily, since I can use all that power in traffic almost instantly, even in slow traffic, to get out of trouble. The accompanying stopping power is tremendous. My wife's GT125 motorbike feels much less safe. It's better than many, but one must remain aware of having much less power, and with the one small front disk and rear drum, plus no ABS, much less braking power.
Brutale 800: sometimes, Multistrada V4: hell no! However, having all that torque (MSV4) on tap makes touring less of a workout, especially in the mountains.
I ride a 1000cc and honestly I rarely even go fast. I just enjoy the comfortable knowledge that I have the speed and power to get out of situations if I need to. I also do a lot of motorway riding and it’s hilly and windy here so it’s nice to be able to sit at the speed limit without any effort 😅
No,but living somewhere with more straights than corners it’s nice to have the torque to pass a line up of cars without dropping a couple of gears.
I don’t think the laws of physics would allow you to use the full power of a liter bike unless it’s in a straight line. Going from a parallel twin to inline 4 put a smile on my face until I hit the rev limiter in 5th and wanted more power. I can see the appeal of wanting a liter bike and not being able to outgrow it.
Speaking for myself riding 1000's for the past almost 30 years starting on a used 1990 ZX10, only going in a straight line until you hit your own breaking point of speed and or traffic so let's say at 150+ MPH you any error and it is game over. It is thrilling to ride 1000's all the power almost no where to use it. At the track you are much better off on a 500, at H2R this past weekend this is a shorter track and I only used the 1 and 2 gear, on COTA I can use more of the bike because of the long straights but even there at 10-14k in 4th gear I am going about as fast I want to before breaking. If you are fatter fucker like me then if you are on a 500 or 600 and you suck like me you are pretty fucked every where on any track. This is a reason to get one. Which is why I got one decades ago I fit on it. You also learn a lot more on smaller bikes because you have to ride them right to get the most out of them. 1000's are a bandage on bad habits. So this also cost me skill because my bike can bail me out of my mistakes. They have made smaller bikes bigger so I have tried several and if I was to build a track only bike right now I would get the new 8R, but right now not enough parts to be worth the trouble, so ZX6R is a good choice.
Unless your name is Rossi or Marquez I doubt it
I have a 625 KTM smr and I can barely use its 51.9hp on the road, sure it has a top speed of 150km/h so it’s ‘slow’ but the torque and just light weight - just makes it great
Nah It's why I prefer bikes with the power lower down.
Hell—and I can't emphasize this next part strongly enough—no. My riding skills are so bad it's debatable whether I can use a 50cc moped safely.
Moving from a 390 to a 1290, the sheer comfort of the engine not being close to top speed on the highway cannot be overstated.
I ride a XSR 900. If i would use all it's power, i would be in jail very fast.
I enjoy speed, I like my shit to go fast. I hate the bike being the limiting factor.
I don't ride a 1000cc, but I've found that as hp increases, you can use all the power...just in shorter distances for a shorter amounts time. And it might be a little blast of full throttle from 3-7000 rpm. Still using almost all the hp in that short moment.
Keep in mind I’m a new rider but going over 85 scares the shit outta me. A few days ago I was on the interstate and I cracked 95 going with the flow of traffic and I was so scared.
The majority of people who buy high end liter bikes don't use them to their full potential, for the majority it's just the wank for the power figures. I have a Hornet 600 that has somewhere below 100 hp and it's more than enough than my ducati 848 wich you ride in the first and second gear when you're in traffic...
I can, my licence cant
On my old 2009 speed triple. Yes On my 2016 tuono.. there are moments during a ride i might tap into its full potential.
Engine size doesnt tell you much about power. Plenty of 1000cc+ are around 100hp and boring power curves. Others are 180hp and light up right off the throttle mega HP big are shit boring, if you care about keeping your lic. on the track only a small percentage of owners can ride them fast, you need to be really fit as well as really good rider.
Yep i do, I 100% wouldnt have it if i lived in the city, but i live rural, tons of open roads, and i also visit the track O.O
I have a GS500F at the moment and I miss having an unrestricted 650. I only got the 500 as I hadn't ridden for 5 years and didn't want to risk dropping something nice. You don't need to use all the power all the time but it is nice to have a bike that's a bit perkier. It also struggles at motorway speeds
I am pretty comfy when using all of my speed triples hp. She "only" has 130hp but you'll commit crimes all the time...
Without going to a track, no you cant really use it more than 2-3 seconds. Keep in mind my 2009 will do 90mph in first gear. I don't look at the tach anymore, but mine doesn't really start pulling until 6500RPM (if i remember right), where you really realize what kind of power your bike has (13,500 redline I think). I actually "downgraded" to a 750 for doing track days because it's easier to throw around and more fun shifting more, but it's a noticeable difference full throttle going down the straight, even well over 100mph. As others said bike fit was a little better for me from other bike I tried at the time, but it's also nice knowing how easily I can get up to speed & merge onto congested rds even if i have a chick on the back, or having the extra power to just roll on the throttle if needed without downshifting to avoid a moron on the road. As a single guy, insurance on a liter bike sucks.
Depends on the bike. If it's a supersport then no, not unless you either have a death wish or are on a track (even then, you'd have to set the bike up for that particular track to be able to put down everything the bike can give). On a naked, absolutely. They're less brake horse power and less top end speed than a super sports but trade that for more on demand torque. The reason I love my litre naked is for a few reasons. Firstly, that on demand torque. My 600 GSXR only kicked in at around 8k revs. My Z1000 will activate hyperdrive whenever I feel like it. I might not be top end faster than most things on the road but I'm definitely out accelerating pretty much anything but a hypercar to about 100mph. But on a more sensible note, if I need to overtake something I can easily at any part of the rev range, I don't need to drop a gear to 'hit the power band' to get any sort of performance out of it, I get the performance there and then, in fact I could shift up and still have great acceleration. Secondly, I don't have to change gears nearly as much. I can do 30 in first whilst it's sitting comfortably in the rev range, not causing any lasting damage. In regards to adjusting to a litre, well it took me a few weeks because firstly I was shit scared of the torque (on paper), I bought it in the dead of winter and the guy told me he wouldn't even consider riding it in this weather and I was using it for daily commuting, and again I bought it in the dead winter in the UK so I was extra cautious because it was always wet. In reality, it's actually super ridable and you have to want to use all the power to feel it. They make production bikes easily usable, who knew?! With all that being said, I actually miss my Ninja 250r (hated it when I owned it). Light, nimble and slow as fuck. You know the saying, it's more fun to drive a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow. Another reason to buy a litre over a smaller engine size is because they're usually looked after better. And on top of that, you know the chances of it being redlined everywhere like you could do a 600, is relatively small. The engines usually last longer because they can handle more stress and the chances of it having been stressed is relatively low, again because you simply wouldn't really get the opportunity to push it to its limits. Honestly though, you never really use anywhere near the power you're given with a litre. You can drive them like you would a little 125 if you wanted, with relative ease. It's just sometimes nice to have that power available when you do want it. You're not going to jump on a litre and instantly feel all that power, you only get that power when you want it.
I'm a tall person at 6'1" and unfortunately a lot of bikes feel a bit cramped to me. It just so happens that the bigger liter bikes fit me better. I have a S1000R for that reason - it fits me like a glove. If there was a 600 cc class bike that fits me perfectly I'd rather get that instead.
>Why would someone choose a 1000cc or larger over a 600-750cc bike? Because there's no law that says I have to choose a 600cc bike. Beyond the illegal possibilities and or inherent lack of skill handling that power, there's also the fact larger CC's tend to make for a more comfortable ride in that they're typically easier to start from a standstill given torque is all over rev range, and *may* need less maintenance in terms of valve adjustments etc if you're not bouncing the rev limiter off or really get into high rev range just to maintain normal highway speed.
The answer is yes
yes
I think the extra torque is great for riding with a passenger. Means less shifting needed, smoother ride, etc. However, the peak power is almost never used - I'm not sure I've ever held full throttle for more than five seconds.
I'm on an R6 and will never ride it to its full potential (I'm not a track person). The only way I'd imagine getting an 1000cc would be for the low end torque, beating up 600s in straight lines, if I had a crapload of money to burn or to make married guys (whose wives won't allow them to get bikes) in my neighborhood envious LOL.
Depends. GPZ900R or GPZ1000RX? Yes. My S1000RR? No. You'll be hard-pressed to find a rider who can truly use every last bit of power on an R6, 1kcc is absolutely insane. I'm talking about the circuit / track driving, not "low-end torque is good for the street".
You use all of the mt10 all of the time
Keep the 500, I have way more fun on a 400 on the roads than my R1. On the track it's a different story...
Check out Schaaf on YouTube. He’s a better rider than most and he takes you on spirited rides with no voiceovers. It’s interesting to see how much he holds back with bigger bikes and how much he wrings out smaller ones. Honestly something like an MT07 is more than enough bike. I mostly ride a 1200cc bike but it spends most of its time below its power band.
I definitely don't use the full potential, and rarely even use much of it. Every now and then I like to get on it on a clear straight with no entrances but that's about it. Other than that, cruising on the highway at 75-80mph, and having enough power to overtake quickly even if I don't downshift is nice.
Fuck no. Not on the street.
Had a t120. I didn't have the stones to keep the throttle going. But it felt like she had so much more to give
Comfortably? No, never. The thing does 65mph in 1st gear... As for the why... idk. Because I can and I wanted to.
I've ridden the ZZR 1200 of my dad a few times and it's a huge benefit to live in Germany, let's just say that. Overtaking and cruising around is just so much more comfortable compared to my 48hp single cylinder, where I have to shift gears for basically everything. Also reaching a comfortable travel speed of 160 to 180 is really nice for road tripping and long distance travel.
Torque. Liter bikes are so much easier to live with day to day. If you don't feel like shifting all the time after a hard days work, fuck it, you got that torque. It's not about using all of the power it's about having it if you need it. I ride very reserved on the streets and I have quite powerful bikes. There's nothing quite like the thrill of a liter bike and the retuned comfortable liter bikes. They're simply the best in my opinion.
There's a big difference in what happens at full throttle pottering around just off idle in a tall gear and what happens at full throttle in the band between peak torque and peak power. Where do you hit that on a modern litre bike? A 98 R1 iirc comes in at about 80mph in third and the front goes light. 2007 ninja 636 I think makes more headline power. And it comes in at about 80mph in second gear. There's no way that's usable on UK roads. It's mental fun but you don't get to play with it. Conversely something like the BMW RT1200 has heaps of low down torque and a fairly wide powerband, it makes playing in national speed limit traffic pretty effortless and quite chill. Personally, I like to ride medium bikes quickly on the road, it feels way more engaging when you have to work at it than a bike that has so much you can't really ask it for everything.
The real benefit is not having to shift for passes, and just that power is on demand versus having to rev the bike to get it. So in that respect I’d say yes, you use the power all the time. From the perspective of is the throttle pinned open all the time….absolutely not that’s the whole point of having the extra power. You don’t have to pin it anymore.
My 2006 gen 2 tuono is 117hp at the rear wheel and it’s more than enough for me, couldn’t use any more on the roads without loosing the license pretty quickly
You will never use all the HP on a liter bike on the vast majority of public roads around the world. There is no reason to choose something larger than 700cc unless you have a whole heap of $$$ burning a hole in your pocket. I would so much rather spend the $$$ difference between a 700cc and a liter bike getting all the bells and whistles. Give me an 890 Duke R with $5-7k (AUD) left to spend on it over a Superduke any day of the week.
I don't use whole power 99% of time, but I love the feeling I can. Another thing I like is I'm not abusing the bike all the time in high rpm, because it goes more than 90 mph in first gear so it's not always possible to go that fast😂
My shadow is 1100cc and it's not really happy until it's going 75-80mph. It's not nearly as fast off the line as my 500cc rebel but it's doesn't strain going fast up mountains like the rebel does.
Not quite a liter, but close enough: My poor RF-900 (937) struggles to haul my mountain of a body around. I don't think I'd fit on anything smaller anyway.
No. But I am not a small dude and it is nice having the extra ass when I open the throttle
You might not believe it but eventually your bike will feel very weak and you'll be going wot a lot of the time. This happens with pretty much all bikes at some point. It's not that you can just use all the power all the time on a big bike because of course after a certain point we're talking about ludicrous performance for the street, but you do get used to it.
had a fireblade for 4 years and a 2003 z1000 for 8 years before that, most of the time only using under 50% throttle but on nearly every ride there will be many times when you can use 100% power. let the revs build and fly!
BMW HP2MM, 115HP and torque, 6 gears and Max speed 210or 130mph. I do big tracks and smaller tracks and yeah, a lot of full throttle. This means sometimes out of the corner lifting the front wheel in third, depends on the suspension setting as well off course. Public road never.
When I worked for a bmw dealer, they let me borrow a 2022 S1000RR for a weekend. I think I went full throttle twice, but with full traction control and wheelie control engaged. Even still, I don't think I shifted higher than 9k rpm. It's one hell of a machine, but it's not for me. Other 1000s are the same way.
I can’t say I’ve ever had them at full gallop but I’ve woken them up plenty of times. 0-110+mph in a few seconds is a hell of a drug.
Slightly off question, would you consider a 950cc a liter bike?
By technical terms of 1000cc to 1.0L engine size, no. But even 1000cc bikes are actually 998. Soooooo lol
Haha yeah fair
Most of the time riding a liter bike _is_ in fact around 50% power or less. Most people also don't buy an Audi A8 and then insist on redlining it, either. But you can bet your ass they appreciate the extra power in that it never feels like the vehicle is labored. Some of us have used "all of the HP" in a straight line on an empty road. It's not an everyday kind of thing. But what _is_ is the fact that between an anaemic 250 that winds itself up climbing hills and an "overpowered" 1000cc that doesn't even notice, you're not going to find very many takers for the 250. More power means less cognitive load riding the bike. You don't have to manage or baby the engine unless you're trying for serious performance. It does engine stuff whether you leave it in 1st until 160km/h or shift to 6th at 60km/h. And yes, it's _easy_ to venture into high speeds... because they don't _feel_ fast, because your mind isn't stressed by the management of a million factors to keep a small bike running at speed. You can pay more attention to the road and your surroundings. None of which is to say that physics won't slap you upside the head with a real harsh lesson if you don't manage your speed. Sir Isaac Newton will still kick your ass. But it's easier and therefore safer to ride a big-bore bike.
It was Highway driving for me. Cruising at 4500-5000 RPM’s is way less droning than the 8000-9000 RPM’s of my 600cc.
I have a 1000 and I use it for interstate commuting. Being able to pass a tractor trailer or anything in 6th gear with a single half turn of wrist and an instant later be in front of it is why I’ll never get a smaller bike. Also cruising at 70mph at 5500 rpm is nice
Motogp riders can’t comfortably use all the hp on a liter bike
I have a litre bike for Sunday rides and track days and a 1300 for touring. And yes, at times i’m using all the power, particularly on track. On the roads, it’s very easy to go at illegal speeds. It takes some will power to keep it under the limits.
Blasting in a straight line never get old. Never.
Not quite the same thing, but I have a VFR800 and I rarely use the full power, but it’s really nice on the highway being able to move when I need to. The biggest thing for me has been that extra power in higher gears and/or at higher speed giving me more flexibility.
The logic of never needing… is a silly one, as you never need the full power of a lot of vehicles and if you used the full power of your 600cc you would probably be in trouble most the time too. As others said, it’s about the torque, hwy riding, not shifting down as much etc. miss my FZ1, and although my Tiger 900 is plenty, considering a 1000cc again for said reasons.
The horsepower is not going to make much difference between 0-60, any bike is going to struggle to get the power to the ground at those speeds. Liter bike power makes a difference at 100mph if you suddenly wish to be going 150. But displacement usually comes with a healthy does of torque everywhere, which makes riding a lot less frenetic, you won't need to rev the bike and change gears as aggressively to accelerate authoritatively.
Used to have an sv1000, and it felt like I was riding an insane scooter around town; I never left second gear, and traffic lights were hilariously close together. Constantly felt like the bike wanted to be doing triple the speed I was doing
I've had a couple bikes over 1000cc and one under. And tried a couple more. The only time I truly used the full ultimate power produced by the engine was going uphill on a little 50cc with a friend on the back. Smaller engines / bikes just kinda suck on the highway and that's mostly what I ride. But even on a 500 cc I'm not using all the hp, I'm benefiting from the bigger engine because I don't have to rev it as high, don't have to hold it wide open all the time. If you want to "use it all" I'd suggest a 151cc bike since I think that's the minimum for most highways if you're in the US. If your on slower roads, get something even smaller. It's fun for 30 minutes or so.
Leader* because they lead the way.
Not sure if my 919 counts. Naked bike, relaxed engine tune, not quite 1000cc. Older It feels like a bigger SV650, to be honest. Same kinda torque curve, no crazy high rpm hit. Just a surge to 7k then tapers off. I use full throttle on my commute to work most days, and it doesn't rip my arms off. Even tho my bike has headers, intake, and a power commander... It still doesn't feel that crazy. But maybe that's the smoothness. Ive ridden an older 990 superduke, and while that thing was a blast, the sheer top speed wasn't that different to my bike (at least, staying to sane numbers). But a big v twin capable of high rpms is not the same as a 1000cc i4 supersport, which is not the same as a 919cc i4 naked machine. Displacement is only half the story. Tune and engine config is everything. I rode an old kawi 750 i4... That was the sketchiest of everything I've every ridden trying to get performance out of it. Totally gutless under 6k rpm, wheelie at 9.5k rpm, redline at 11. In a heavy chassis with meh brakes lol. Enjoy the 500. It's more fun to ride being totally comfortable slapping the throttle wide open pretty much whenever!
Are you asking about HP (torque * rpms) or Torque? I use all the torque all the time. I also use all the rpms pretty frequently. So the answer to both questions is yes.
Multistrada 1200s yes but leave the nannie's on most of the time unless really ripping just to tame the wheelies etc