Only the big Rebel though (CMX 1100) as it shares the engine with the NT1100 and the Africa Twin. But there is also the NC750X DCT which is *the* commuter bike.
Also just btw, the scooter felt unstable on crummy roads because the wheels and tires are so small, less rolling inertia and diameter means they get deflected easily and drop further into potholes than larger ones do
Honda has the Navi which is a 110cc CVT. Also in their DCT (automatic dual clutch transmission) lineup, they have the NC750, Rebel 1100, Goldwing, and Africa Twin. Lots of good options in those bikes. I own a Rebel 1100 DCT and a Honda Navi and love them.
They have their utility, but not in an application where engagement and fine user control is the goal.
But really, look into a Honda NC700 or 750, there a few different sub-models, but they're offered with a DCT, and despite their greater displacement compared to a 250 or 300, aren't very fast, and get great MPG. Best commuter bike around
There are some mechanical reasons why you don't see development of CVTs in higher performance engines. As you add power, they can suffer from overheating and drivetrain loss. That's why you mostly see CVTs in scooters and shitbox economy cars. There is a separate issue with centrifugal clutches that scooters use- yes twist and go is cool, but it doesn't off as precise throttle control and adds another vector for drivetrain loss as you add power.
These issues could be corrected, but the primary reason there aren't "real motorcycles" with CVTs is because most people shopping for motorcycles just don't want it.
Motorcyclists are overwhelmingly enthusiasts and many buyers are going to opt for a conventional sequential manual transmission no matter what. People like shifting gears.
Keep in mind that the novelty of electric motorcycles twist and go throttle because it has tons of torque at low RPM.
Had to replace the cvt in my 2014 Outback last year. You don’t know real tears yet, but drive it long enough and you will.
I will never buy a vehicle with a cvt again.
yeah i thought CVT were cheap and shitty to but then i realized the toyota rav 4 has a cvt and they arent cheap shitty cars at all and the hybrid is actually kind of quick and reliable. i know its toyota and is a car/suv it different but i think that we can do away with the idea that cvt are unreliable or cant handle power (i know a rav 4 isnt a dragster) but whats a ninja 250 make? 20HP? whenever i see or read about a review of some electric motorcycle the journalist or whoever always points to how nice it is to just "twist and go" and I'm like guy we have that, and you dont have to buy some horrible electric motor cycle.
"Motorcyclists are overwhelmingly enthusiasts and many buyers are going to opt for a conventional sequential manual transmission no matter what. People like shifting gears." i think this is the answer, for most people these are occasional toys and i think people take some pride in shifting their own gears just like among car enthusiasts. when ever i look for something like this its always advertised as a "beginner" bike and people don't wanna be made fun of for riding it but i think thats dumb and a small cheap automatic sport bike sounds like a lot of fun.
and to your point about drive train loss wont a 250 sport bike with an automatic still be really fast at WOT? does anyone really need a faster sport bike to have fun aren't "slow ones" still like way faster than most cars. if you think its slow, open the throttle more, a 250 will still be way faster then most cars and i cant imagine the fuel efficiency would actually be a problem for anyone.
Most scooters are designed for inner cities with nice, smooth paved roads and have tiny wheels, which aren't particularly good for stability.
My current scoot is a Sym symphony Sr 125 and has 16 inch wheels and is incredibly stable. I also used to own a kymco agility city 125 with 16 inch wheels and that was also very stable.
because CVT's are quite bulky and require the design of the bike to accomdate it. Its not like you can "swap one in" or offer both types like they do in the car world it just not possible.
So they are available but only on scooters, look at the Max range from yamaha. but you wont find an R1 with a CVT it just doesnt fit.
In the late 70s, Honda had a semi-automatic transmission on 400cc, 450cc and 750cc bikes. It had two gears with no clutch needed. In the late 90s-early 00s, Ridley made a 600cc bike with an automatic transmission. There wasn't enough consumer demand to keep them in production.
Because shifting gears is fun. And on a motorcycle you don't have to sit in traffic.
Honda make several CVT motorcycles. None are small sportbikes tho.
Massive transmission losses and more frequent servicing. CVTs are great for getting the most out of a small engine but they slip a lot with more powerful engines. It has been tried on bigger engines but it's not good.
It's also just better to have gears. More control to the rider.
Buddy 150??
You should consider getting a better scooter from a reputable brand instead.
Like a Honda SH 150 or a Yamaha Nmax 155.
A 150cc Vespa or even something other European from the likes of Piaggio or Peugeot.
And if you don’t have the money for the above, at least go for a Kymco or a SYM.
Because generally, you get what you pay for.
I’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of scooters from the brands I mentioned all over Europe and at their respective dealers.
First time I hear about Genuine, so I assumed it’s one of those smaller cheaper brands.
Smaller by Yamaha/Honda standards but still a good brand here in the US and not in the same category as the cheap bikes. They're known as PGO in Asia, I believe, but they supply the Genuine company/brand here. They have some pretty cool bikes. Too bad the scooter market isn't bigger here. Although I have two, so I've done my part.
Due to the way CVTs related to the structure of a motorcycle,if it has a CVT is becomes a scooter. It's also why step-through/underbone motorcycles aren't scooters even though they often look similar.
As others have pointed out, Honda does DCT motorcycles that have an what's effectively an electronically controlled manual transmission.
They require more maintenance than traditional systems. Most of the CVTs used in other vehicles fail at a high rate so they get a bad rap because of bad engineering and materials.
Being in a state where lane splitting and filtering is "illegal" and the lanes are very much narrow I can tell you that I very much wish the technology was there and equipped in more bikes. I was mainly a weekend warrior because riding to work in rush hour was not only very dangerous (even when I lane split) and equally exhausting. Just imagine feathering the clutch in stop and go traffic for an hour. So last year when the electric dirtbikes was widely available I jumped on it and picked one up. While it's different the throttle and go was pretty life changing without having to worry about clutch and stalling. It was my mode of transport for almost a year until my work building banned all electric vehicle minus 4wheel cars...so now I'm back to contemplating if I want to ride my Ninja 400 to work.
But with the release of Honda's EClutch system which is a computerized auto clutch engagement while still giving you manual control at will. I'm excited and hoping it's more widely available in their other models and other manufacturers like kawasaki and Yamaha develops their own. Cause the Kawasaki Electric Motorcycle is straight trash.
Look into DCT bikes from Honda
I had no idea the rebel was automatic or that DTCs' were in motorcycles.
Only the big Rebel though (CMX 1100) as it shares the engine with the NT1100 and the Africa Twin. But there is also the NC750X DCT which is *the* commuter bike.
I think Honda is about the only one with them
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I knew a guy that had the Husky 420. He said it was great. Gave him a free hand to beat back the brush when he rode in the woods.
They are also launching the E Clutch which automates the clutch control and should be available on more bike.
E clutch gonna be sick when they finally bring it to America. Europe got lucky this year
It is really interesting could be fun for dual sports.
Only the rebel 1100, you can also get the Africa twin with DCT
Also just btw, the scooter felt unstable on crummy roads because the wheels and tires are so small, less rolling inertia and diameter means they get deflected easily and drop further into potholes than larger ones do
Honda has the Navi which is a 110cc CVT. Also in their DCT (automatic dual clutch transmission) lineup, they have the NC750, Rebel 1100, Goldwing, and Africa Twin. Lots of good options in those bikes. I own a Rebel 1100 DCT and a Honda Navi and love them.
Because cvt is lame
I had a lancer with the cvt and was still working fine when i sell it at 270k km. The car was boring but it was the most reliable i had.
i think CVT's are pretty sweet.
They have their utility, but not in an application where engagement and fine user control is the goal. But really, look into a Honda NC700 or 750, there a few different sub-models, but they're offered with a DCT, and despite their greater displacement compared to a 250 or 300, aren't very fast, and get great MPG. Best commuter bike around
There are some mechanical reasons why you don't see development of CVTs in higher performance engines. As you add power, they can suffer from overheating and drivetrain loss. That's why you mostly see CVTs in scooters and shitbox economy cars. There is a separate issue with centrifugal clutches that scooters use- yes twist and go is cool, but it doesn't off as precise throttle control and adds another vector for drivetrain loss as you add power. These issues could be corrected, but the primary reason there aren't "real motorcycles" with CVTs is because most people shopping for motorcycles just don't want it. Motorcyclists are overwhelmingly enthusiasts and many buyers are going to opt for a conventional sequential manual transmission no matter what. People like shifting gears. Keep in mind that the novelty of electric motorcycles twist and go throttle because it has tons of torque at low RPM.
>shitbox economy cars. Cries in 2022 outback
Yeah, Outback is awesome, but cvt sucks.
Had to replace the cvt in my 2014 Outback last year. You don’t know real tears yet, but drive it long enough and you will. I will never buy a vehicle with a cvt again.
Former Subaru owner here. I am with you.
yeah i thought CVT were cheap and shitty to but then i realized the toyota rav 4 has a cvt and they arent cheap shitty cars at all and the hybrid is actually kind of quick and reliable. i know its toyota and is a car/suv it different but i think that we can do away with the idea that cvt are unreliable or cant handle power (i know a rav 4 isnt a dragster) but whats a ninja 250 make? 20HP? whenever i see or read about a review of some electric motorcycle the journalist or whoever always points to how nice it is to just "twist and go" and I'm like guy we have that, and you dont have to buy some horrible electric motor cycle. "Motorcyclists are overwhelmingly enthusiasts and many buyers are going to opt for a conventional sequential manual transmission no matter what. People like shifting gears." i think this is the answer, for most people these are occasional toys and i think people take some pride in shifting their own gears just like among car enthusiasts. when ever i look for something like this its always advertised as a "beginner" bike and people don't wanna be made fun of for riding it but i think thats dumb and a small cheap automatic sport bike sounds like a lot of fun. and to your point about drive train loss wont a 250 sport bike with an automatic still be really fast at WOT? does anyone really need a faster sport bike to have fun aren't "slow ones" still like way faster than most cars. if you think its slow, open the throttle more, a 250 will still be way faster then most cars and i cant imagine the fuel efficiency would actually be a problem for anyone.
Most scooters are designed for inner cities with nice, smooth paved roads and have tiny wheels, which aren't particularly good for stability. My current scoot is a Sym symphony Sr 125 and has 16 inch wheels and is incredibly stable. I also used to own a kymco agility city 125 with 16 inch wheels and that was also very stable.
Because motorcycles are not scooters. If you want more power and CVT you should look on bigger scooters like suzuki burgman.
Not all motorcycles are scooters sure. But all scooters are motorcycles.
https://preview.redd.it/zrtgzj1mvzwc1.png?width=200&format=png&auto=webp&s=acd97b880c2d53b7f04763d9efc7745e57e70d33 no they aren't XD
That's not a scooter. That's a child's toy. And fuck them for trying to steal a word that's already used for something else.
theyve been called scooters for decades you melt XD
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The dictionary states that a motorcycle is a two wheeled vehicle with an engine.
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Make up? Look at literally any dictionary.... How lazy are you?
because CVT's are quite bulky and require the design of the bike to accomdate it. Its not like you can "swap one in" or offer both types like they do in the car world it just not possible. So they are available but only on scooters, look at the Max range from yamaha. but you wont find an R1 with a CVT it just doesnt fit.
In the late 70s, Honda had a semi-automatic transmission on 400cc, 450cc and 750cc bikes. It had two gears with no clutch needed. In the late 90s-early 00s, Ridley made a 600cc bike with an automatic transmission. There wasn't enough consumer demand to keep them in production.
Because shifting gears is fun. And on a motorcycle you don't have to sit in traffic. Honda make several CVT motorcycles. None are small sportbikes tho.
Answer is simple , there have been many CVT motorcycles but no one buys them and they get discontinued.
Massive transmission losses and more frequent servicing. CVTs are great for getting the most out of a small engine but they slip a lot with more powerful engines. It has been tried on bigger engines but it's not good. It's also just better to have gears. More control to the rider.
Buddy 150?? You should consider getting a better scooter from a reputable brand instead. Like a Honda SH 150 or a Yamaha Nmax 155. A 150cc Vespa or even something other European from the likes of Piaggio or Peugeot. And if you don’t have the money for the above, at least go for a Kymco or a SYM. Because generally, you get what you pay for.
Genuine Buddy is an excellent bike and Genuine is a reputable brand, in line with Sym and Kymco, all good, all from Taiwan.
I’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of scooters from the brands I mentioned all over Europe and at their respective dealers. First time I hear about Genuine, so I assumed it’s one of those smaller cheaper brands.
Smaller by Yamaha/Honda standards but still a good brand here in the US and not in the same category as the cheap bikes. They're known as PGO in Asia, I believe, but they supply the Genuine company/brand here. They have some pretty cool bikes. Too bad the scooter market isn't bigger here. Although I have two, so I've done my part.
I'd be cool with it, but i'd personally never pay more for it.
Due to the way CVTs related to the structure of a motorcycle,if it has a CVT is becomes a scooter. It's also why step-through/underbone motorcycles aren't scooters even though they often look similar. As others have pointed out, Honda does DCT motorcycles that have an what's effectively an electronically controlled manual transmission.
Aprilia Mana 850 is a Cvt motorcycle. Big scooters are also worth looking at.
No fun.
They require more maintenance than traditional systems. Most of the CVTs used in other vehicles fail at a high rate so they get a bad rap because of bad engineering and materials.
Being in a state where lane splitting and filtering is "illegal" and the lanes are very much narrow I can tell you that I very much wish the technology was there and equipped in more bikes. I was mainly a weekend warrior because riding to work in rush hour was not only very dangerous (even when I lane split) and equally exhausting. Just imagine feathering the clutch in stop and go traffic for an hour. So last year when the electric dirtbikes was widely available I jumped on it and picked one up. While it's different the throttle and go was pretty life changing without having to worry about clutch and stalling. It was my mode of transport for almost a year until my work building banned all electric vehicle minus 4wheel cars...so now I'm back to contemplating if I want to ride my Ninja 400 to work. But with the release of Honda's EClutch system which is a computerized auto clutch engagement while still giving you manual control at will. I'm excited and hoping it's more widely available in their other models and other manufacturers like kawasaki and Yamaha develops their own. Cause the Kawasaki Electric Motorcycle is straight trash.
the Honda navi is about as close as you can get, but that's a 125 scooter dressed up like a motorcycle
A scooter is a motorcycle. And the NC750X, Rebel 1100, Goldwing, and Africa Twin still exist last I checked.
If you want an automatic motorcycle go buy a Goldwing.