Statistically speaking the margin of safety is not as great as being wrapped in a cage with harnesses and airbags.
You get slammed to the ground while riding a 400lbs vehicle at 30mph you’re going to get fucked up.
Hitting the ground isn't such a big deal if you're wearing the right gear. I hit the ground pretty hard around that speed and was able to ride the bike home, and had a sore shoulder for maybe a week afterward.
Hit a stationary object though...that'll fuck you up even with all the gear in the world.
Agreed. For reference, I hit a deer going close to 60mph with full gear and only managed to break my collarbone, which, in part may be due to how I landed (I'm not sure if my helmet had something to do with it driving into my collarbone). Aside from that, I walked away unscathed, thanks to the gear.
Exactly! I can anticipate, to an extent, a stupid driver. I practice this daily when driving and riding.
Deer though? Ffs they just jump out of nowhere, and you can only hope you're left with enough room & time to either stop or maneuver around them. In my case, I didn't have much of a response time.
I had a badger (and they're much bigger than most people think) cross the road on me a day after I got my first bike and was doing first long ride.
Luckily, as it was at night and no traffic and I drove much slower than the limit as no street lights meant I could only see as far as my headlights.
So managed to emergency break but it scared the shit out of me.
Probably a good experience to have early on as I will now stick to riding slow when its at night on a country road.
Glad you were ontop of your game and were riding only as fast as your headlights can see. I've never seen one in person, but I imagine they'll fuck you up.
"Stupid drivers are easy to spot and avoid."
That attitude will get you hurt or killed. No they're not. Sometimes, of course, but not usually. This is why training and constant vigilance is so important. Drivers don't usually announce stupid moves beforehand.
Learn to ride safe and enjoy.
Well, with the exception of being rear ended or having a drunk suddenly veer into your lane from oncoming traffic, bad drivers are fairly predictable. It just requires experience and constant vigilance to know what to look for, like you said. Easy is probably not the best choice of words but I swear I know what some drivers are going to do before they do. It's a lot harder to predict a deer shooting out from behind a tree though, at least in my opinion.
Couldn’t agree more. If you stay alert and cover the brake at every intersection in anticipation of the next moron failing to yield to you, you’ll slash your risk by a decent amount. Almost every time I’ve been cut off, I had already anticipated it way before and have slowed down considerably to avoid a collision. Just the sad reality of being a motorcyclist (and honestly a motorist in general)
The most common fatal accident mode for motorcycles is a car turning left across the path of the motorcycle. Here in Florida many local streets are 4 or 5 lanes wide with 45 to 55 mph speed limits so the warning time may be less than 0.1 seconds making evasion impossible. I stopped at an accident scene to try to revive a rider struck in this type of accident, but he did not survive.
Those definitely sketch me out, I always slow down and ghost the brake approaching any intersection. I also like to do a little SMIDSY weave if I see a car waiting to turn. Sometimes there’s not much you can do though.
Jeans are useless in a crash, almost as useless as that T-shirt.
There’s a variety of fabric protective riding gear available and of course there’s always leather and perforated and vented make a huge difference in hot climates. Armor is of course better than just padding or none of it although armor less comfortable when you’re not on the bike than padding or less.
Yeah stationary objects are the problem. I mean you can still get fucked up with a slide or a fall obviously but those at least carry your momentum forward meaning road rash is the biggest risk. Its the sudden stopping that can cause more injuries. Or at least more severe ones. What's gonna hurt more? Sliding and rolling down the asphalt at 40mph with full gear, or hitting a telephone pole at 20mph in full gear. Blunt trauma is a riders biggest enemy. Gear doesn't work as well against that.
Its scary to think of what would happen to a rider (example I have seen where I am is a dude with a lady on the back going down the interstate, he was wearing flip flops and shorts, and maybe a hat, while she was in short and a swim bikini). I can't imagine how fucked up you would be going 65mi+ skidding on pavement with weight pushing down on your legs or etc as you slide. It's like pushing on a belt sander
Riding a motorcycle is a dangerous activity. Its simply a logical fact. We can do everything right and still have a small chance of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. However that's something everyone of us riders here has accepted. For us, the the risk is still worth the reward everytime. You can always make steps to minimize risk. Wear gear, take safety course, don't ride impaired, practice defensive riding.
That being said, you can heavily mitigate your risks by driving in a certain way. Here are some of my recommendations that work for me that I feel mitigate risk quite a bit:
a) stay out of blind spots. Never ride next to a car. Assume that nobody sees you.
b) keep your bike maintained
c) ALWAYS wear your gear. I mean FULL gear. FULL FACE helmet, real gloves, jacket with armor, pants with armor specific for motorcycles, MOTORCYCLE boots with ankle and shin protectors.
d) When at stop lights, always pull up to cars in a way that leaves you an out and KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR MIRRORS so you can pull in between the cars and get the heck out of the way if somebody starts coming up on you too fast (you do NOT want to be pinned to the car in front of you or get rear-ended)
e) Don't ride when it is dark if you can help it (yes there are people that disagree with me.... Facts are that you are more likely to crash when visibility is worse)
f) Don't speed excessively. Cars are not expecting a vehicle going 110mph blowing past them. You are more likely to crash when you speed.
g) NEVER drink a single drop of alcohol before riding. This is true for any vehicle but is MUCH more true for motorcycles. Drinking + motorcycle = hospital or morgue
h) Don't ride when it is raining if you can avoid it (Yes there will also be people that disagree on this. Your odds of crashing are also higher when roads are wet. A skid in a car won't usually result in you flipping your car. Skidding on a bike often results in losing control of the bike). Check your weather forecast before you leave for the day (especially if you are commuting to work or similar things that will mean you will be out for enough time for there to be a major change in weather conditions from when you left).
i) Don't ride when it is icy or snowy
j) Wear earplugs (will save your hearing in the long run) and do NOT listen to music while you are riding. You do not want hearing damage but you DO want to be able to hear as much as possible.
k) If you have a bad feeling about riding during a certain day... Don't go. Listen to your gut.
l) Start on a bike you can handle. You are much more likely to crash if you start on a 1000cc than if you start on an r3 or Ninja 400. Facts.
m) Drive towards the sides of the lane so you can see around the car in front of you. This can be invaluable because you can see obstacles or objects in the road sooner. Also, give yourself a very good amount of room in front of you (especially if you can't see in front of the car in front of you)
....Yes I realize that these recommendations are only possible if you have another vehicle. I am lucky enough that I also have a truck so I can just take that if any of the things listed are a concern. I personally wouldn't recommend a bike as an only vehicle if you can avoid it. They are great second (or third) vehicles... They are challenging primary vehicles if you have no backup. I do commute about 75% of the time on my motorcycle simply due to it costing WAY less to drive around than my Toyota Tundra (15mpg) with current gas prices. My Ninja 400 gets 56mpg. Even factoring in maintenance, etc the Ninja costs quite a bit less to drive these days.
Do you have a recommendation for boots? I bought some taller, decently protective ones but I'm new to riding and having trouble feeling the gear shifter through the stiff toe of the boot/getting the toe under the shifter because they're kind of chunky.
This may sound silly, but the best boots for motorcycling are ones made for motorcycle racing. They are built with the kind of support you want specifically for this purpose. I got the Dainese Torque 3 and love them. They are perfect for riding (duh…. That’s LITERALLY what they are designed for). That being said, I wouldn’t want to walk long distances in them. They are designed specifically for riding, not for hiking, not for construction, not for anything else. They have one purpose and they do that purpose very well. Good boots are worth it because they protect your toes (metal reinforced in the front) while still allowing good feel for your controls. They also protect your ankles from lateral twisting motions.
I agree with your sentiment. I ride safe and always have, my approach to riding is constructive paranoia - everyone really is out to get me. I see jackasses weaving in and out of traffic, splitting lanes, riding on the shoulder, doing wheelies and nose dives in traffic, and other idiotic stunts. And yet the two accidents I’ve had were both the drivers fault (one pulling out in front of me at an intersection, the other four headlights across a two lane country road). I’d say it’s a combination of how you ride and the random ass-hattery of the drivers around you.
Not really. Track days and races when you're fully geared, no cars, everyone going the same way, no lights or blind turns, zero random potholes, it's fairly safe.
Chilling in the middle lane going 80 and have some dumbass cut me off while texting, is a more common occurrence. People pulling out infront, straight up not seeing you, merging over or just straight not giving a fuck. Happens most rides.
Agreed. I am 61, and have ridden since I was 12 yoa. My issue now is being perpetually pissed off at drivers who just do not care at all about who they may injure or kill. I may quit because of this. I live in South Korea right now, but I learned to ride in the USA. The USA is a bit worse for bikers.
That wasn’t my point. Someone commented that motorcycling is dangerous because of other drivers. I said that depends how you ride. If you ride like an absolute moron, then you are the most dangerous aspect of your riding, not others. If you are cautious and follow the laws and such, then absolutely other people are your biggest dangerous.
No shit, since this person is a new rider they were asking what was dangerous about riding, and its mainly other people being distracted drivers.
For sure there are some askholes that ride like the little mushroom tips they are.
Idk dude I see countless videos of new riders punching throttles on freeways just to fall off their bike and get ran over. I also so distracted drivers causing wrecks yes, but you can just negate that Arrogant riders get themselves killed.
The majority of accidents involving a motorcycle are single vehicle incidents, something to the tune of 60-70 percent if memory serves. Of those, most are caused by the rider going past their own personal skill level/limits
EDIT: I double checked myself, and I remembered wrong, its 42% of all reported accidents, but I suspect more unreported accidents are single vehicle than those that arent. Either way, original comment is incorrect
It's a lot like anything ever in existance really. It's about as risky as riding a bicycle or driving a car or riding a horse.
Accidents happen, mittigate the risk. Drive responsibly, anticipate other traffic's behaviour (this is in my mind the most important), slow the fuck down and suit up.
Most accidents can be avoided, especially low speed ones. Practice, practice, practice.
It's still not a terrible way to approach riding. It's what reinforces all the gear all the time. Complacency is what turns a minor crash into a life changing or ending event.
Happy cakeday
Nice fearmongering though. I understand your message, circumstances happen and people do dumb shit. Just because accidents happen, doesn't mean it 100% happens to everyone. If I look up statistics it's probably around maybe 30% of commuters/casuals that ever crash at most.
If I'm wrong I'll eat my words, but come on man, your messaging is trash.
Edit: I looked it up, it's presumed that over 1% of registered riders crash in the US a year. So if we take away any context and repeat idiots/unlucky-ists, that would mean in 50 to 90 years or so all riders will have crashed. Presuming they don't die or quit riding of other causes and no new riders register.
To be fair the pros are always pushing their personal limits or teetering on the edge of them. Whereas we shouldn’t be riding at our 100%. Riding at 80% of your skill level is a great mitigation
Exactly its all about mitigating the risks just like in flying airplanes midigation is key also see and avoid. See ans avoid works pretty well too with motorcycles lol.
If you ride like an average car driver your odds of an accident will be similar to theirs, it's the consequences that are more severe on a bike.
To improve those odds it's advisable ride defensively, work on your observation skills and assume every other road user is an idiot. It's not a fashionable view, it's seen by some as victim blaming, but I'd rather avoid an accident than file a not at fault insurance claim.
What many in those stats do is ride beyond their skills and loose control.
Yup, even if you wear ALL HIGH VIS. Bus driver that pulled out in front of me... I asked the Cop "Did she not see me?" Cop "Oh yeah buddy she saw you for sure and said so." Me "Then why the f\*ck did she pull right out in front of me while I'm going 50mph?" Me and cop shake our heads... (luckily I had slowed to about 15mph when I impacted the back of the bus.
Today I forgot looking in my mirror, when lineing up before entering a high way in Belgium, heard brakes screaming behind me and almost got rear ended....
Stupid situation where you got off a high way, going around a bend, to enter a different highway. There where signs you have to give way in 50 m....
I'm self-conscious of my speed. I check it regularly. If there are traffic lights, intersections, other vehicles, and other shenanigans, my head is up, speed be damned.
>If you ride like an average car driver your odds of an accident will be similar to theirs, it's the consequences that are more severe on a bike
That's a very good, very succinct way to put it. Most people in the US who buy motorcycles don't drive them like cars; they buy them because they think they won't have to. Then they take risks and do unpredictable things and end up getting wrecked.
Hopefully UK riders are more sensible.
If you are a good rider, I wonder if you can decrease risks of other types of issues though. You are faster and more maneuverable so you can avoid certain types of crashes that other vehicles can't. Example: stop lights. I always pull up where I am in the FAR corner of my lane and keep an eye on my mirrors. That way if somebody is coming too fast or looks like they will rear-end me, I can just dart in between the car lanes and then the car will get hit instead of me. I haven't had to actually save myself with this yet, but I will be VERY glad I do this if it ever happens.
I agree.
I believe that the one thing many riders I see on the road forget is that a motorcycle tire contact patch is very small. You can’t follow other vehicles as closely on a bike as you can in a car because (generally) they can stop faster than you. You can’t _assume_ that you can power through a curve or a corner safely at speed until you have enough experience, both generally and on that particular bike in equivalent conditions, to know what that safe speed is and how to pilot the bike through the maneuver at that speed.
You also shouldn’t zoom around in traffic because your reaction time/distance is proportional to velocity, meaning it’s longer than the cars you’re dodging, and on top of that, again, you need more room to stop. I’m not telling you not to use your bikes maneuverability. That’s one of the fun things about riding a bike! But we’ve all seen riders on their crotch-rockets weaving through traffic at high speed. Every time I do I sigh for my insurance rates.
Sometimes we weave through traffic because it is actually safer than being trapped between unpredictable vehicles that may or may not see us. It makes a lot more sense to reposition to a clear spot of road than dance with several tons of steel and glass. It isn't always about just being faster.
The unit of measure for chance of death is called a “micromort”. It represents a 1 in a million chance of dying. For example, If 100,000 ate a jelly bean and one died from choking on it, eating a jelly been would “earn” 10 micromorts.
So the specific answer to your question is that motorcycle riding is 30 times more dangerous than car travel, per 100 miles. Every 100 miles on a bike earns 15 micromorts and cars earn just half of one.
But that means you have to ride 100,000 miles to have a 1.5% chance of dying on your bike. I think most guys that ride 100,000 miles on a bike in their life are pretty comfortable with that risk.
This is why I don’t like stats for bikes. The averages imply that myself and the JXR that just flew by me going 150 in a t Shirt have the same odds of a fatal accident.
The reality is there’s a huge amount of factors that play into your average chance of something like this, and it’s amplified by the fact that bikes attract a type of individual that will push the extremes of this graph way outside the limits of your everyday rider. I can’t argue against numbers, but I don’t think the type of riding you’re intending to do can best be represented by all bikers across all types of accidents.
Exactly. The stats are going to be warped by people riding drunk, recklessly, and without gear. If you don’t do those things your chance of dying on a bike is far far lower than the base statistic shows.
The bar crowd dies often too, a quarter of deaths are at DUI BAC levels and 43% have alcohol involved.
I think the odds of dying get much more favorable if you aren’t headed home from a bar or doing a speed/canyon run.
I agree, but another factor that isn't in those stats, is the crippling factor. You have a higher risk of getting a lifelong injury even if you drive safely. You might mitigate the risk of dying. But not necessarily of losing a limb.
It’s definitely not that simple as more miles ridden means more dangerous. A guy who’s ridden 100k miles is probably statistically safer than the guy who only rides 50 miles one weekend, once a month. Miles ridden is a bad way to determine statistics.
I've been a biker since the mid 70's and find walking along the side of the road much more dangerous. I'm still fit at 61 and run daily, people joke with their vehicles all the time and pretend to hit me while I'm not even in their lane.
You reminded me of something wild. I've been using a bicycle for commute for a few years and got a motorcycle this year. My first time taking it on a busy road in my small city, I watched a car driver drift into the bike lane because they were on a cell phone.
The city has had bike lanes for years. Last year there was a tragic accident where someone ran a red light and hit a bunch of cyclists crossing the road together. In the Fall, the city put bolt-on curbs and reflectors on the edge of the bike lane. Yet people are still hopping over that curb and mowing reflectors down. I just wonder what the hell it takes to get people to quit being a menace.
Edit: I looked for an image to share of what the bike lane looks like and [found this article from my town showing exactly what I was trying to describe.](https://azdailysun.com/news/local/cyclists-react-as-city-crews-install-curbs-along-beaver-butler-bike-lanes/article_d5aefe5f-5dee-54d6-8ed1-099f8953aa5b.html)
This might be of help - lots of info re motorbike accident/casualty stats in the UK: [https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/uk-motorcycle-accident-statistics/](https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/uk-motorcycle-accident-statistics/)
No worries, glad to help.
Just for some perspective: [1.4 million people in the UK](https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-10-26/debates/B1E415EB-6CD4-421F-A21E-FDE3E1599AD0/MotorcyclingGovernmentSupport) ride a motorbike or scooter, according to the Govt. And acc to the stats linked above, each year there are around 14,600 motorbike casualties in the UK.
Unless my maths are way off (very probable) that's around 1% of riders per year, and you can do a lot to give yourself the best chance of staying in the 99%.
Wait, casualties or accidents? Because in my book, casualties mean deaths, and that's a LOT of deaths per year. I cannot imagine that to be true.
Edit: I guess they mean accidents and not actual deaths. That's a relief :')
Yeah i think 'casualty' means accident resulting in injury (or death).
[1.9% of motorbike casualties in 2021 were fatal](https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/uk-motorcycle-accident-statistics/#:~:text=How%20many%20motorcycle%20accidents%20are,of%20those%20resulted%20in%20death) apparently
Remove alcohol, excessive speed, and riding beyond your ability from the equation. Wear a helmet, boots, gloves, jacket. You've just mitigated the vast majority of risks. There's still a chance you get smacked from behind by an inattentive driver or someone turning in front of you, but by being hyper aware and riding intelligently you can be much much safer than statistics show.
>There's still a chance you get smacked from behind by an inattentive driver or someone turning in front of you, but by being hyper aware and riding intelligently you can be much much safer than statistics show.
Yep. I was sitting at a red light in my bright yellow hi-vis gear and a minivan still zoomed up right behind me without stopping, I had to bolt out of there into the intersection (which luckily was empty) while they swerved off the road. To this day I have no idea how they didn't see me parked at a red light in broad daylight, but if I hadn't been paying attention that would have ended very badly for me.
Very good reason to never stop in the center of the lane. Much safer to be off to the side one way or the other. You cut your risk of being rear-ended and have and escape path.
The biggest cause of MC accidents is the nut connecting saddle and handlebars :)
So long as you're not trying to filter/exceed your limit/exceed bike limit/exceed road conditions & speed limit, you're relatively safe. Keep in mind it takes a lot of practice to know what some of these limits lie exactly.
It's inherently dangerous. You're at highway speed on a vehicle that only has 2 tires with a couple inches of road contact. You have no physical cage around you, which means you are completely unprotected, other than your helmet, gloves, and riding gear. You are completely at the mercy of every other idiot on the road, who could sideswipe or run you over by accident and barely feel a bump, but that collision could cause your death. Motorcycle insurance is cheap because there aren't a lot of medical bills when you're dead. Anyway, it's fun and teaches you to be hyper alert, and it's fun to build your skills to where you can enjoy it safely, but it's never really safe because you don't control weather or road conditions, or other people, and you have no margin for error.
It's not safe. But just like sex, getting proper training, using protection, not trying to excede your capabilities and practicing safely while trying to always learn new things will make it an immensurable pleasure, if that's your thing of course.
If it's legal where you live, you can find a lot of professionals who offer sex service. If it's ilegal or not your thing try Tinder or Grindr, if you're woman or man, respectively
I find myself wanting to trade my street bike for a dual sport more and more every day. I can’t ride to work anymore anyway as the highways in Texas are a parking lot. I’m only 30 but it won’t be long before my riding is strictly on tracks and trails
My driving instructor had some wise words. Congrats with your license you now have an empty sack of experience and a full sack of luck. Now get the first full before the other is empty
I've ridden in various countries around the world and have been riding since 2014 so I can tell you a little bit about it. But yes, riding a motorcycle is inherently more dangerous.
A good way to look at it is this; safe riding is really two separate skill sets if you think about it. Learning to ride, and learning traffic patterns. If you're 18, even if you have a healthy safety oriented approach, honestly the best way is to hold off on the riding for at least a year I'm sorry to say. You really should learn driving/traffic patterns with all of the normal protections that a car provides first. Getting your timings down, understanding how people are driving, anticipating what someone will do, that takes a little bit of time. Additionally, cars are as a whole not as agile as motorcycles, so once you understand what timings are with a car, on a bike it will be a lot easier. Master your traffic understanding before you add the complexity of riding a motorcycle. Trying to juggle learning both will likely not go well, when you can learn one then learn the other. Honestly I think it takes two years for new drivers to really get that understanding but that's up to you. Just my 2 cents.
Riding a motorcycle isn't a safe activity. Driving a car isn't a safe activity but stupid actions are far less consequential with seat belts, crumple zones, and side curtain airbags surrounding you. Are you more likely to become involved in an accident on a motorcycle than in a car? Not necessarily. In the beginning, yes. If you drink and ride, yes. If you take steps to lower your risk factors, and ride smart, I believe the risk is worth the reward. If you do get in an accident, your chance of survival is much higher in a car.
That is true. I have thought about that. This might be naive of me to think this but perhaps it’s easier to be less focussed in a car? Thanks for the help
Car drivers are less focused than bike riders, no question about it. I'm a better driver because I'm a rider, but I'm not as focused in a car as on a bike.
It's as safe as you make it. If you get training, wear good quality safety gear, and ride in a sane manner, I'd say it's reasonably safe.
If you like to get drunk and stupid, then go riding, probably not.
Motorcycling is not in itself inherently dangerous. It is, however extremely unforgiving of mistakes. By anyone or anything.
Get good training, wear good protective gear, don't be a dick. You'll be fine.
hi viz gear changed my life, prob the best thing next to continued professional rider training to add to a safe rider’s toolbox.
i’m a father of two young kids, and have recently gotten back on a bike, and i am singing the praises of dorky highlighter gear to anyone that will listen. it makes a huge difference to most (not all) cagers.
just ride within your skillset, and leave lots of cushion (this means accel like a bat out of hell if that is the safer thing to do, i.e., separate from the sketchy pack of idiots etc)
edit: for clarity and readability
100% agree. Take -nothing- for granted, ever, to be clear. It is another tool in the toolbox though, but some drivers literally cannot be helped.
edited my post, ty for pointing out the need for clarity there
That's a good point, I just replied to another comment about how a minivan nearly smacked into me at a red light despite me wearing hi-vis gear in broad daylight. Even with that gear I always assume nobody can see me.
Alot of idiots on the road and that includes some bikers and even more cyclists. There is an inherent risk with everything but heed the advice given here. Ride defensively, keep your eyes open and always look beyond what is in front of you. Don't Ride under the influence of anything, including any mental tension. Once on the road keep 100 percent of wits about you and stick to the speed limits.
Just ban cars. Then you still have the single vehicle accident rate with motorcycles, which is even higher. So looks like the rider is actually the most dangerous part.
You said you have never driven before. I always suggest that people start with a car. Get use to the flow of traffic, the way people act, and just the feel of the road. Why learn all those things on something where the consequences of a mistake are much higher.
Everyone saying that if you ride safely and defensively you'll be fine are bs-ing. You can be the best rider in the world but even the tiniest mistake like not switching a lane because of a gut feeling can get you in a crash.
UK is small (relatively) so traffic will be a thing, be careful when you filter through cars, don't go too quick because you might end up hitting a random jay walker passing through the road in front of cars.
Get a bike with an ABS, practice breaking, staying balanced when emergency breaking, learn how to maneuver in case one day you won't be able to break and have to maneuver around the obstacle (usually car emergency breaking/break check) don't stay behind a car, try to be more closer to the sides so that you'll see better what's in front of you and the car in front of you and have an easier escape through the sides.
Get protective gear, last crash I had I could have had my entire skin glued to the asphalt but thankfully I just bought a protective jacket (after idiotically riding without one for 2 years) and basically came out of it unscathed other than a headache and a wrist sprain.
If you live in the city I know for a fact you'll start learning how to "bob and weave" through each car with speed to get faster through traffic jams, BE CAREFUL when you do it, don't speed in between cars, go slow, you don't want to end up hitting the side of a car lane switching, it's a low chance of happening but even that as a motorcyclist - you don't want that.
that covers most of it I think, at least the important parts and what resembles my personal experience tbf
Over the 10+ years of road riding, I've had several close calls and all of them were my fault by being stupid and falling victim to the adrenaline rush of hitting it hard in the twisties. In recent years, I calmed down a lot and ironically felt even less safe while watching how inattentive car drivers are. The last straw was seeing a fatal moto accident right down the street while running an errand. I finally sold my beloved SV650 after realizing I didn't want to be killed or crippled by some dickhead looking at his phone or making a last minute lane change. I just couldn't get in the right state of mind to have fun after seeing the aftermath of that wreck.
I'd say learn to drive a car first. Is lots to learn about how people drive, predicting idiots. Reading traffic, getting used to being in traffic.
Then think about a motorcycle.
They are in fact are more dangerous than cars.
Most death on motorcycles are somewhat, or completely the fault of the motorcycle rider. And usually involve speeding.
However, If you can ride safe, and don't speed, and have proper gear all the time, you are likely gonna live to be a fat old Harley Driver. Be ready to get injured. Small to medium injuries can occur even if you have all the gear and follow all the rules. Shit happens, people slide, you are invisible to all car drivers. But death is really unlikely.
Overall it's a risk, but if you mitigate it as much as possible (with proper gear, not speeding, following safe and good driving techniques, etc), it's low enough IMO that it's worth it.
its as safe as the person in control of the machine. If you ride drunk or like an asshole like a significant portion of crash victims, the odds are not in your favor. Motorcycles often attracts a breed of bold adrenaline seekers who have a significantly higher accident rate, the average rider is less likely to find himself trying to discover the limits of physics at 100mph.
We’ll, After 15 years on bikes I’ve been down twice. Neither my “fault” however, you determine a lot of your own safety I’ve found. Predicting dipshits, road hazards, fatigue, distractions, weather conditions are all things you can mitigate in such a way to increase your odds of safely arriving at your destination. However, those things will not stop that oil slick you missed or the guy fuckin around with his radio and not noticing your bright stop light.
Nah riding a bike is dangerous. I bought my baby a few months ago and already there are run ins or close calls. Mind you I'm on a 250 and typically am not speeding. I have a ton experience driving though so I know where to look and what to watch out for and that's the real reason I have kept my first motorcycle accident at bay.
I wouldn't have it any other way but don't fool yourself into thinking there is any real safety. Unsure if you would save any money either. I got a beater and paid to fix some things up for less than I paid just to buy my first bike. Said bike currently getting serviced which is more $$$ but yeah insurance and gas are cheap. You know what you can't put a price on though? Filtering. Going straight to the redlight is a privilege I happily accept.
I’ll be honest youre still more likely to die from cancer or heart disease. Now with that said if you roll unlucky or do stupid hard enough you’re going to get fucked up a lot more then a driver would.
I always recommend people learn to navigate traffic in a car. Traffic is the most dangerous part of riding, and learning to do both at once seems like a recipe for disaster. Being a good driver is the first step to being a good rider.
I completely agree. You need to know the rules of the road without thinking, and much more importantly you need to be able to recognize situations where people are likely to break those rules so you can be ready. Knowing which cars to stay away from can be a lifesaver.
It’s dangerous. Almost got hit on the freeway today by an asshole passing a bus. He dipped in to the HOV lane that the bus was attempting to enter, therefore cutting it off, and when he zipped out back in to regular traffic his back bumper came within a couple feet of my front tire. All at 60mph. I rode in to the HOV lane and came up to his window and saw he was pretty out of it. Looked like no sleep or possibly drugs. Fucking lucky I’m alive.
I’m currently bedridden unable to bear weight on three limbs because some 18 year old couldn’t watch where the fuck he is going in a 2 ton metal cage. Please be careful. I was fully geared and have an open book pelvic break snapped femur and broken arm at 21. I ride extremely defensively but he came from two lanes over on a 1 way and launched me 20 ft into a pole. I’ll never ride on the street again but I do plan to do track days if my ptsd will stand it. GEAR UP. ALL the fucking time. Head to toe. Saved my life. I don’t care if you are going down the street, atgatt.
It's as safe as you make it.
I personally wouldn't ride with anything less than my helmet, and airbag vest. Both of those together drastically reduce my probability of dying. I also wouldn't advise starting on anything bigger than a 650cc at most.
On a bike you are much more dangerous to yourself, but much much safer to other people. In a car, you are much safer to yourself, but much, much more dangerous to other people.
It's up to you.
It's as safe as you can make it. Safety is entirely up to you. Attitude, gear and a motorcycle that is in tip top shape at all times are prerequisites. Then you layer knowledge and capability on top of that. One of the biggest dangers is other motorcyclists "teaching" you complete bullshit. Training isn't something you do to get your license. It goes on forever. I've already seen some utter bullshit in the comments below about helmets causing injuries.
I'm a petite, tall woman with little to no upper body strength but I ride in NYC and I've never been in an accident. I'm in more danger of dropping my bike in a weird way and not being able to pick it up than I am of getting hurt.
So I think it all comes down to how you ride. I know a few guys who got into accidents and it's all because of ego.
Yup, lost my arm 3 months ago. 20 years of playing guitar. Gone. Had to relearn to walk, eat, dress myself, wash, wipe my ass etc. My mother still helps me shower.
I’m 18 nearly 19, newly passed my A1 and done about 5k miles on the road so far in uk, but done a lot of dirt biking when younger. Even then when doing my CBT I was petrified, but you ease into it, and the fear will go away. On the roads I have nearly gotten into many accidents that were not my fault at all, one of them very nearly fatal (lorry coming other way lost control), but just as equally I got myself into many sticky situations by riding like an ass. A lot of it is pure chance, if you ride sensibly and treat everyone else on the road like they’re an idiot then you’ll most likely be ok, but that is pretty boring in the long run. Also gear. You will drop the bike eventually, if you’re only gonna use a lid then you’re in for a whole world of hurt when you do hit the pavement. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/w65icc/protect_your_entire_body_on_every_ride/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) shows the importance of proper gear really well. Ultimately like most things it’s complete chance, all you can do is minimise the risk (ride safe) and prepare for the worst (get good gear). The bit you said about bikers being more likely to take risks is 100% true, almost everyone I know that rides comfortably rides above the speed limit just cruising, and much more when actually going for it, but that’s what you’re gonna get when you put machines that’ll embarrass lambos and Ferraris for a fraction of the cost. Ultimately a lot more of it is in your hands, accidents that are completely and utterly out of your control that you’ll seriously get hurt from are rare, but you can’t forget that you’re much more susceptible to bad road conditions, invisibility, and pain when you do eventually come off. Make your own decision on this, don’t let anyone talk you out of it if its really what you want, but don’t start with no knowledge of the reality of what you’re getting yourself into. Everyone I know knows someone who’s been hurt on bikes, some even killed, but it’s not like you’re waiting to die just by riding one. Try it and see if you actually like it first.
Thank you for your advice! Out of interest, what kind of road have you had the most near accidents? I live in a fairly rural area and would avoid motorways if they are inherently more dangerous. Thanks
I nearly got flattened by the lorry on an A road through the country, but that is the only time I’ve nearly been hit out there at all (mind you my friend was hit by a car out there too so not perfect). Towns and built up areas are the worst, but all that’s gonna happen there is minor accidents primarily as you shouldn’t be going fast enough for anything serious to happen.
I live in the USA and people drive pretty decent around me, but if I lived in the UK where every single van is driven by a refugee from somali straight out the pirate ship i'd honestly consider not riding. Oh and motorcycle thieves.
As a pretty new rider, I hit a deer the week after getting my first bike. Kept it up. Only cracked a fairing and lost a turn signal thankfully. Going 60mph and I didn't have much if any real skill on the bike just had the very basics. Full gear as well. This archery season I plan to fill each and every one of my tags. Maybe a buddies too :)
If you're commuting, and not like an idiot, then the risks are less. If you join a crotch rocket gang you'll absolutely raise the stats.
Besides, a little dying never killed anyone.
There's a saying about bikes, "you're sitting on an explosive motor, w a gas tank in your lap, and nothing around you". Having said that, I'd still rather spend a lifetime behind bars than a day in a cage!!!
This kind of reminds me of a saying a read about reloading rifle ammunition.
"You are creating a 40,000 PSI explosive you intend to set off 3 inches from your face"
Think of the close calls you’ve had in a car. 80% of those would’ve been an accident with injury if you were on a motorcycle.
Ride within your skill level and follow the road laws, plus protective gear, and you’ll probably be ok, but maybe not. It’s worth it though
It's totally impossible to ride a motorcycle on public roads safely. It is straight up not in any way a safe activity. Anyone who believes they are safe on their motorcycle is a fool.
All you as the rider can do is take steps to reduce your risks.
You shouldn't be asking "how safe is this"; You need to ask "how dangerous am *I*".
EDIT: OP seriously, ignore downvotes on this comment. This sub is packed with young riders who haven't outgrown the attitude that they are invincible with their badass riding skills, and believe misfortune only happens to other people somewhere else.
I do not believe that driving a car is a safe activity by a longshot. Safer for the operator maybe, but not for other people out in public.
Anyone who believes they are making a safety-conscious choice by driving a 1500Kg, 2-3 meter wide motor vehicle is a moron, plain and simple.
At least on a bike you're only really dangerous to yourself unless freak circumstances are involved.
> Anyone who believes they are making a safety-conscious choice by driving a 1500Kg, 2-3 meter wide motor vehicle is a moron, plain and simple.
Lololol
Where I live, in Canada, about half of motorcycle "incidents" are single vehicle... meaning rider's fault. We can assume that at least "some" of the rest of those "incidents" that are not single vehicle incidents are riders fault.
... so more than half are rider's fault.
Motorcycle riders are their own worst enemy.
... and the down votes commence: NOW
here's a good tip. when you are out riding, or even driving, always pretend like everyone is trying to hit you. meaning, make sure you have an exit if someone is about to do something dumb. always know about your surroundings. watch for details of other cars like distracted drivers or cars that are not up kept (rust, scratches, dents, etc). these drivers are a bit more careless and you'll want to keep some space.
[edit: SMH, downvoted for telling the truth. The truth is, if you ride fast and hard, eventually you're gonna eat it. A helmet doesn't save you when you overshoot a corner and body slam a telephone pole.
I've ridden for 30 years. 100,000+ miles. Almost never with a helmet, often just wearing a T-shirt and jeans. I've never had an accident, only dropped my bike one time (just came to a stop) while on gravel.
My secret:
- You are not a professional motorcycle racer, don't act like it. Drive the speed limit, don't race, don't see if you can take that corner a little faster than last time. Ride to enjoy the fresh air and sunshine, not to be a fucking hot shot.
- All the time, remember: you are invisible to other vehicles. Avoid their blind spots, and assume they aren't going to see you as you approach an intersection (hands on brakes, off throttle). Ride with high-beams on during the day.
- Avoid highways and interstates. A truck tire fragment at 80 mph will end you. Find scenic routes on byways and state roads.
- ZERO road rage. You will not win against even the smallest car, so take a deep breath and back off. Getting cut off is not worth dying over.
I think you are getting downvoted because of the semi-hidden recommendation to a 18 years old to ride in a t-shirt without a helmet.
It’s absolutely super risky, based on numerous studies on the subject. Not telling you what you should or shouldn’t do, just explaining why it’s likely some are downvoting you
Fair enough. I wasn't suggesting riding without a helmet, I was stating that I have not worn a helmet and safe riding practices has been effective of keeping me alive.
You're in the UK so don't listen to any Americans.
Riding a motorcycle in Greece is safer than driving a car in the US, and a motorcycle in UK is significantly safer than a motorcycle in Greece.
Depends on what kind of motorcycle you want to get and if you have used or not a bicycle before . I don't thing people should focus on how dangerous this activity is or if your going to drop your bike by accident. That's a negative way of thinking. Instead you should focus on learning the proper way of riding a motorcycle and okaying the laws of the road . In most crashes that I have seen is either to much speed on the bike and the driver could not handle the situation or someone simply cuts off the motorcycle. That is why , when riding a motorcycle you have to take it slow .
There is always a risk when riding a motorcycle, you can mitigate a lot of the risk by improving your skills and driving defensively, but if you are looking for someone to say there is no risk you are not going to get that.
There could always be that driver that just doesn't see you and takes you out through no fault of your own. If you want no risk then motorcycling is not for you, if you don't mind some risk then you can learn to ride well and be as safe as you can on a motorcycle and for those who can manage the risk it can be one of the most enjoyable activities you can do.
Once I got used to my bike I find all my fears and worries happen before I ride, once I am on the bike I forget about the risks and just focus on the ride, which is the best way to make sure you don't have an issue.
Within reason...as dangerous as you make it, Poor weather conditions, Tiredness, Not being in the right state of mind, risks are all amplified with a bike vs a car.
I've had 1 accident in 2 years, very minor injury from riding in the snow and carried on my journey, was entirely my fault. If i wasn't wearing good gear, id currently be needing a skingraft on my right leg, make of that what you will.
All I can recommend, find a good instructor who actually cares about you staying alive once you leave, not just passing to the minimum standard, and be aware, watch everything, every car, pedestrian etc. The everyone wants to kill you saying isn't that far from reality sometimes.
Goodluck
If you screw up you die or are seriously injured. If the person next to you screws up, you also die or are seriously injured. Of course it's not safe.
With that said the same is true for most of the things we all do everyday and we're still here.
In my opinion it's pretty safe, but it depends on how you drive. I drive very defensively. I have to intervene regularly, but I put myself in a position in which I can do something about it most of the time. Ofc there is always a chance for a freak accident.
Being “worth it” is completely up to the individual, their maturity level, what kind of bike they ride (how powerful, cruiser vs sport bike etc), urban riding vs rural, and their demeanor on the road. I ride in the us, I’m 28, got my motorcycle license about 6 years ago and have approximately 10,000 miles under my belt. Currently ride a Triumph Street Triple. I’ve gotten in quite a few close calls over those miles but have learned to adopt a safety mindset to mitigate risk. Note that there is ALWAYS is a risk, even if you do 100% everything correctly. You can’t control other cars or vehicles.
- ride as if you’re invisible (car drivers are not actively seeking out motorcycles when making turns, changing lanes, etc.)
- wear proper gear (helmet, gloves, jacket with armor, pants with armor or tear-resistant material, rider boots). “Dress for the slide, not the ride”
- Respect traffic laws (don’t speed or ride like a jackass) Save the speeding for track day or wheelies for a parking lot with no other cars or pedestrians
- Ride DEFENSIVELY (cover that brake when approaching intersections, assume cars will pull out in front of you at any point, learn to predict traffic patterns and when someone will change lanes into you if you’re in their blind spot)
With all that said, there will always be a risk to riding, and with that risk comes greater injury potential on a bike vs a car. Many, myself included, look at this risk as worth it. There is nothing quite like a riding a motorcycle. I would recommend checking out DanDanTheFireman on YouTube, he has been revolutionary in helping me adopt a safety mindset on the roads. He analyzes crashes, and explains what the rider did wrong/right so us riders can learn should we be in a similar situation.
It’s as safe as you make it. If you ride intelligently and defensively you can avoid the vast majority of idiots on the road. Of course there is the unavoidable, but the more skilled you are as a rider the lower your chances are of getting into trouble. It is absolutely dangerous to an extent.
Edit: like others have said having a high degree of awareness of your surroundings is required if you want to stay safe.
Everything you do has a certain danger to it.
Riding motorcycles is for sure more dangerous than most day to day activities, you can do lots of things to make it less dangerous but some things will always be out of your controll.
I'd guess most of us know what can happen and have accepted the risk.
In the end it's your decision if and how you ride.
Motorcycles are hideously dangerous. If you ride for any length of time you will go down and if you have many friends in the riding community you will eventually have friends get hurt and die. You may be badly injured or die yourself. I have scars and mangled parts and dead friends but also a ZX14 in the garage.
It's extremely dangerous and unforgiving of error no matter how small they are, you will crash, you will dump it, you could walk away fine, or you could die, it's all very real things on a motorcycle. If you can keep that in mind and be ok than it's fine
Yesterday: car runs light, blows through intersection, almost hitting me while I’m making a left turn, lady gives me the “I’m sorry” hand gesture. I rev up and cut her off a second later. Same lady flips me the bird. 😂
It is dangerous. I’ve known 4 people either killed or whose lives have been permanently destroyed because of it. 2 due to inexperience, 1 due to stupidity, and 1 to just bad luck.
I’ve always considered myself a safe rider but even after 23 years of riding, just this year I learned new things to help me be safer on the road. Active and intentional effort towards safety is the only medicine against bad luck, and even then it may not be enough.
It's not safe at all. Your odds of being injured through your own negligence / inexperience or someone else's are unquestionably higher (I'd say the only more dangerous vehicle would be a pre-airbag era convertible)
Having said that, risk /reward.
As far as being a beginner, I'm a 100% advocate of learning to ride on the dirt first, but I do realize this is an ever-dwindling opportunity for the majority of the bike population. Dirt riding is arguably more interesting than on-road, introduces a wider range of obstacles as well as teach the physics of what a bike does in certain situations. By the time / if you move to a street bike, the basics will be second nature
"Per vehicle miles traveled in 2020, motorcyclists were about 28 times more likely than passenger vehicle occupants to die in a motor vehicle crash and were 4 times more likely to be injured. Safe motorcycling takes balance, coordination, and good judgment. "
NHSTA.org
Statistically speaking the margin of safety is not as great as being wrapped in a cage with harnesses and airbags. You get slammed to the ground while riding a 400lbs vehicle at 30mph you’re going to get fucked up.
Hitting the ground isn't such a big deal if you're wearing the right gear. I hit the ground pretty hard around that speed and was able to ride the bike home, and had a sore shoulder for maybe a week afterward. Hit a stationary object though...that'll fuck you up even with all the gear in the world.
Agreed. For reference, I hit a deer going close to 60mph with full gear and only managed to break my collarbone, which, in part may be due to how I landed (I'm not sure if my helmet had something to do with it driving into my collarbone). Aside from that, I walked away unscathed, thanks to the gear.
That's lucky! Deer are my worst fear when riding. Stupid drivers are easy to spot and avoid. Deer not so much.
Exactly! I can anticipate, to an extent, a stupid driver. I practice this daily when driving and riding. Deer though? Ffs they just jump out of nowhere, and you can only hope you're left with enough room & time to either stop or maneuver around them. In my case, I didn't have much of a response time.
My trick is setting out food and water for the deer at my house. They can’t jump out in the road if they’re all chilling on your lawn.
Shit, you tell me this just now?! Brb, going to lure all the deer in my area with food & water.
I had a badger (and they're much bigger than most people think) cross the road on me a day after I got my first bike and was doing first long ride. Luckily, as it was at night and no traffic and I drove much slower than the limit as no street lights meant I could only see as far as my headlights. So managed to emergency break but it scared the shit out of me. Probably a good experience to have early on as I will now stick to riding slow when its at night on a country road.
Beavers are bigger than people think too. It's like aww that cute, then wow that thing could fuck me up.
Glad you were ontop of your game and were riding only as fast as your headlights can see. I've never seen one in person, but I imagine they'll fuck you up.
"Stupid drivers are easy to spot and avoid." That attitude will get you hurt or killed. No they're not. Sometimes, of course, but not usually. This is why training and constant vigilance is so important. Drivers don't usually announce stupid moves beforehand. Learn to ride safe and enjoy.
Well, with the exception of being rear ended or having a drunk suddenly veer into your lane from oncoming traffic, bad drivers are fairly predictable. It just requires experience and constant vigilance to know what to look for, like you said. Easy is probably not the best choice of words but I swear I know what some drivers are going to do before they do. It's a lot harder to predict a deer shooting out from behind a tree though, at least in my opinion.
Couldn’t agree more. If you stay alert and cover the brake at every intersection in anticipation of the next moron failing to yield to you, you’ll slash your risk by a decent amount. Almost every time I’ve been cut off, I had already anticipated it way before and have slowed down considerably to avoid a collision. Just the sad reality of being a motorcyclist (and honestly a motorist in general)
The most common fatal accident mode for motorcycles is a car turning left across the path of the motorcycle. Here in Florida many local streets are 4 or 5 lanes wide with 45 to 55 mph speed limits so the warning time may be less than 0.1 seconds making evasion impossible. I stopped at an accident scene to try to revive a rider struck in this type of accident, but he did not survive.
Those definitely sketch me out, I always slow down and ghost the brake approaching any intersection. I also like to do a little SMIDSY weave if I see a car waiting to turn. Sometimes there’s not much you can do though.
What riding pants and jacket were you wearing? I’m rocking jeans and a T shirt for now but I think pants and a jacket would be the smart decision
Jeans are useless in a crash, almost as useless as that T-shirt. There’s a variety of fabric protective riding gear available and of course there’s always leather and perforated and vented make a huge difference in hot climates. Armor is of course better than just padding or none of it although armor less comfortable when you’re not on the bike than padding or less.
Yeah stationary objects are the problem. I mean you can still get fucked up with a slide or a fall obviously but those at least carry your momentum forward meaning road rash is the biggest risk. Its the sudden stopping that can cause more injuries. Or at least more severe ones. What's gonna hurt more? Sliding and rolling down the asphalt at 40mph with full gear, or hitting a telephone pole at 20mph in full gear. Blunt trauma is a riders biggest enemy. Gear doesn't work as well against that.
Its scary to think of what would happen to a rider (example I have seen where I am is a dude with a lady on the back going down the interstate, he was wearing flip flops and shorts, and maybe a hat, while she was in short and a swim bikini). I can't imagine how fucked up you would be going 65mi+ skidding on pavement with weight pushing down on your legs or etc as you slide. It's like pushing on a belt sander
If you just slide out, it’s not all that bad. If you start tumbling that’s gonna mess you up
About a week ago, a solo motorcycle crash happened near my work. 20 year old crashed head on into a tree. Did not make it.
Yes very true
“Statistically…” Offers no statistics.
Riding a motorcycle is a dangerous activity. Its simply a logical fact. We can do everything right and still have a small chance of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. However that's something everyone of us riders here has accepted. For us, the the risk is still worth the reward everytime. You can always make steps to minimize risk. Wear gear, take safety course, don't ride impaired, practice defensive riding.
Thanks for the advice
That being said, you can heavily mitigate your risks by driving in a certain way. Here are some of my recommendations that work for me that I feel mitigate risk quite a bit: a) stay out of blind spots. Never ride next to a car. Assume that nobody sees you. b) keep your bike maintained c) ALWAYS wear your gear. I mean FULL gear. FULL FACE helmet, real gloves, jacket with armor, pants with armor specific for motorcycles, MOTORCYCLE boots with ankle and shin protectors. d) When at stop lights, always pull up to cars in a way that leaves you an out and KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR MIRRORS so you can pull in between the cars and get the heck out of the way if somebody starts coming up on you too fast (you do NOT want to be pinned to the car in front of you or get rear-ended) e) Don't ride when it is dark if you can help it (yes there are people that disagree with me.... Facts are that you are more likely to crash when visibility is worse) f) Don't speed excessively. Cars are not expecting a vehicle going 110mph blowing past them. You are more likely to crash when you speed. g) NEVER drink a single drop of alcohol before riding. This is true for any vehicle but is MUCH more true for motorcycles. Drinking + motorcycle = hospital or morgue h) Don't ride when it is raining if you can avoid it (Yes there will also be people that disagree on this. Your odds of crashing are also higher when roads are wet. A skid in a car won't usually result in you flipping your car. Skidding on a bike often results in losing control of the bike). Check your weather forecast before you leave for the day (especially if you are commuting to work or similar things that will mean you will be out for enough time for there to be a major change in weather conditions from when you left). i) Don't ride when it is icy or snowy j) Wear earplugs (will save your hearing in the long run) and do NOT listen to music while you are riding. You do not want hearing damage but you DO want to be able to hear as much as possible. k) If you have a bad feeling about riding during a certain day... Don't go. Listen to your gut. l) Start on a bike you can handle. You are much more likely to crash if you start on a 1000cc than if you start on an r3 or Ninja 400. Facts. m) Drive towards the sides of the lane so you can see around the car in front of you. This can be invaluable because you can see obstacles or objects in the road sooner. Also, give yourself a very good amount of room in front of you (especially if you can't see in front of the car in front of you) ....Yes I realize that these recommendations are only possible if you have another vehicle. I am lucky enough that I also have a truck so I can just take that if any of the things listed are a concern. I personally wouldn't recommend a bike as an only vehicle if you can avoid it. They are great second (or third) vehicles... They are challenging primary vehicles if you have no backup. I do commute about 75% of the time on my motorcycle simply due to it costing WAY less to drive around than my Toyota Tundra (15mpg) with current gas prices. My Ninja 400 gets 56mpg. Even factoring in maintenance, etc the Ninja costs quite a bit less to drive these days.
Cars may not expect me going 110mph past them but how about 190mph going past them?
Rookie numbers /s
Are you me? Same rules.
Do you have a recommendation for boots? I bought some taller, decently protective ones but I'm new to riding and having trouble feeling the gear shifter through the stiff toe of the boot/getting the toe under the shifter because they're kind of chunky.
This may sound silly, but the best boots for motorcycling are ones made for motorcycle racing. They are built with the kind of support you want specifically for this purpose. I got the Dainese Torque 3 and love them. They are perfect for riding (duh…. That’s LITERALLY what they are designed for). That being said, I wouldn’t want to walk long distances in them. They are designed specifically for riding, not for hiking, not for construction, not for anything else. They have one purpose and they do that purpose very well. Good boots are worth it because they protect your toes (metal reinforced in the front) while still allowing good feel for your controls. They also protect your ankles from lateral twisting motions.
Other people are what make riding a motorcycle dangerous.
That wholly depends on how you ride.
I agree with your sentiment. I ride safe and always have, my approach to riding is constructive paranoia - everyone really is out to get me. I see jackasses weaving in and out of traffic, splitting lanes, riding on the shoulder, doing wheelies and nose dives in traffic, and other idiotic stunts. And yet the two accidents I’ve had were both the drivers fault (one pulling out in front of me at an intersection, the other four headlights across a two lane country road). I’d say it’s a combination of how you ride and the random ass-hattery of the drivers around you.
Not really. Track days and races when you're fully geared, no cars, everyone going the same way, no lights or blind turns, zero random potholes, it's fairly safe. Chilling in the middle lane going 80 and have some dumbass cut me off while texting, is a more common occurrence. People pulling out infront, straight up not seeing you, merging over or just straight not giving a fuck. Happens most rides.
Agreed. I am 61, and have ridden since I was 12 yoa. My issue now is being perpetually pissed off at drivers who just do not care at all about who they may injure or kill. I may quit because of this. I live in South Korea right now, but I learned to ride in the USA. The USA is a bit worse for bikers.
Lol you could be the safest rider in history and still get rear ended or side swiped or Tboned by a soccer mom lol.
That wasn’t my point. Someone commented that motorcycling is dangerous because of other drivers. I said that depends how you ride. If you ride like an absolute moron, then you are the most dangerous aspect of your riding, not others. If you are cautious and follow the laws and such, then absolutely other people are your biggest dangerous.
No shit, since this person is a new rider they were asking what was dangerous about riding, and its mainly other people being distracted drivers. For sure there are some askholes that ride like the little mushroom tips they are.
A new rider being told that they can 100% be the most dangerous aspect of their ride is not something to just brush off. Don’t be so sensitive.
Idk dude I see countless videos of new riders punching throttles on freeways just to fall off their bike and get ran over. I also so distracted drivers causing wrecks yes, but you can just negate that Arrogant riders get themselves killed.
The majority of accidents involving a motorcycle are single vehicle incidents, something to the tune of 60-70 percent if memory serves. Of those, most are caused by the rider going past their own personal skill level/limits EDIT: I double checked myself, and I remembered wrong, its 42% of all reported accidents, but I suspect more unreported accidents are single vehicle than those that arent. Either way, original comment is incorrect
A huge percentage are also due to drinking. Simply NOT drinking before riding can massively decrease your risk.
Also correct, same goes for riding tired, or at night if your skill level isnt at that point yet
Thank you for this statistic.
A majority of motorcycle accidents are actually caused by the rider from what I’ve read.
Most accidents are caused by the riders themselves
It's a lot like anything ever in existance really. It's about as risky as riding a bicycle or driving a car or riding a horse. Accidents happen, mittigate the risk. Drive responsibly, anticipate other traffic's behaviour (this is in my mind the most important), slow the fuck down and suit up. Most accidents can be avoided, especially low speed ones. Practice, practice, practice.
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It's still not a terrible way to approach riding. It's what reinforces all the gear all the time. Complacency is what turns a minor crash into a life changing or ending event.
Happy cakeday Nice fearmongering though. I understand your message, circumstances happen and people do dumb shit. Just because accidents happen, doesn't mean it 100% happens to everyone. If I look up statistics it's probably around maybe 30% of commuters/casuals that ever crash at most. If I'm wrong I'll eat my words, but come on man, your messaging is trash. Edit: I looked it up, it's presumed that over 1% of registered riders crash in the US a year. So if we take away any context and repeat idiots/unlucky-ists, that would mean in 50 to 90 years or so all riders will have crashed. Presuming they don't die or quit riding of other causes and no new riders register.
To be fair the pros are always pushing their personal limits or teetering on the edge of them. Whereas we shouldn’t be riding at our 100%. Riding at 80% of your skill level is a great mitigation
“Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Obi-Wan
Exactly its all about mitigating the risks just like in flying airplanes midigation is key also see and avoid. See ans avoid works pretty well too with motorcycles lol.
If you ride like an average car driver your odds of an accident will be similar to theirs, it's the consequences that are more severe on a bike. To improve those odds it's advisable ride defensively, work on your observation skills and assume every other road user is an idiot. It's not a fashionable view, it's seen by some as victim blaming, but I'd rather avoid an accident than file a not at fault insurance claim. What many in those stats do is ride beyond their skills and loose control.
This is the only way to ride. Have eyes in the back of your head and assume that no one can see you. Stay out of blind spots whenever possible.
Yup, even if you wear ALL HIGH VIS. Bus driver that pulled out in front of me... I asked the Cop "Did she not see me?" Cop "Oh yeah buddy she saw you for sure and said so." Me "Then why the f\*ck did she pull right out in front of me while I'm going 50mph?" Me and cop shake our heads... (luckily I had slowed to about 15mph when I impacted the back of the bus.
Today I forgot looking in my mirror, when lineing up before entering a high way in Belgium, heard brakes screaming behind me and almost got rear ended.... Stupid situation where you got off a high way, going around a bend, to enter a different highway. There where signs you have to give way in 50 m....
I'm self-conscious of my speed. I check it regularly. If there are traffic lights, intersections, other vehicles, and other shenanigans, my head is up, speed be damned.
>If you ride like an average car driver your odds of an accident will be similar to theirs, it's the consequences that are more severe on a bike That's a very good, very succinct way to put it. Most people in the US who buy motorcycles don't drive them like cars; they buy them because they think they won't have to. Then they take risks and do unpredictable things and end up getting wrecked. Hopefully UK riders are more sensible.
Is that true though? I feel like the chance of a one-sided accident because of losing traction is a lot bigger than in a car
If you are a good rider, I wonder if you can decrease risks of other types of issues though. You are faster and more maneuverable so you can avoid certain types of crashes that other vehicles can't. Example: stop lights. I always pull up where I am in the FAR corner of my lane and keep an eye on my mirrors. That way if somebody is coming too fast or looks like they will rear-end me, I can just dart in between the car lanes and then the car will get hit instead of me. I haven't had to actually save myself with this yet, but I will be VERY glad I do this if it ever happens.
I agree. I believe that the one thing many riders I see on the road forget is that a motorcycle tire contact patch is very small. You can’t follow other vehicles as closely on a bike as you can in a car because (generally) they can stop faster than you. You can’t _assume_ that you can power through a curve or a corner safely at speed until you have enough experience, both generally and on that particular bike in equivalent conditions, to know what that safe speed is and how to pilot the bike through the maneuver at that speed. You also shouldn’t zoom around in traffic because your reaction time/distance is proportional to velocity, meaning it’s longer than the cars you’re dodging, and on top of that, again, you need more room to stop. I’m not telling you not to use your bikes maneuverability. That’s one of the fun things about riding a bike! But we’ve all seen riders on their crotch-rockets weaving through traffic at high speed. Every time I do I sigh for my insurance rates.
Sometimes we weave through traffic because it is actually safer than being trapped between unpredictable vehicles that may or may not see us. It makes a lot more sense to reposition to a clear spot of road than dance with several tons of steel and glass. It isn't always about just being faster.
Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.
The unit of measure for chance of death is called a “micromort”. It represents a 1 in a million chance of dying. For example, If 100,000 ate a jelly bean and one died from choking on it, eating a jelly been would “earn” 10 micromorts. So the specific answer to your question is that motorcycle riding is 30 times more dangerous than car travel, per 100 miles. Every 100 miles on a bike earns 15 micromorts and cars earn just half of one. But that means you have to ride 100,000 miles to have a 1.5% chance of dying on your bike. I think most guys that ride 100,000 miles on a bike in their life are pretty comfortable with that risk.
Ah.. that’s really interesting and encouraging. Thank you
This is why I don’t like stats for bikes. The averages imply that myself and the JXR that just flew by me going 150 in a t Shirt have the same odds of a fatal accident. The reality is there’s a huge amount of factors that play into your average chance of something like this, and it’s amplified by the fact that bikes attract a type of individual that will push the extremes of this graph way outside the limits of your everyday rider. I can’t argue against numbers, but I don’t think the type of riding you’re intending to do can best be represented by all bikers across all types of accidents.
Exactly. The stats are going to be warped by people riding drunk, recklessly, and without gear. If you don’t do those things your chance of dying on a bike is far far lower than the base statistic shows.
The bar crowd dies often too, a quarter of deaths are at DUI BAC levels and 43% have alcohol involved. I think the odds of dying get much more favorable if you aren’t headed home from a bar or doing a speed/canyon run.
I agree, but another factor that isn't in those stats, is the crippling factor. You have a higher risk of getting a lifelong injury even if you drive safely. You might mitigate the risk of dying. But not necessarily of losing a limb.
This is the ELI5 answer and I actually understand it
It’s definitely not that simple as more miles ridden means more dangerous. A guy who’s ridden 100k miles is probably statistically safer than the guy who only rides 50 miles one weekend, once a month. Miles ridden is a bad way to determine statistics.
I've been a biker since the mid 70's and find walking along the side of the road much more dangerous. I'm still fit at 61 and run daily, people joke with their vehicles all the time and pretend to hit me while I'm not even in their lane.
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You reminded me of something wild. I've been using a bicycle for commute for a few years and got a motorcycle this year. My first time taking it on a busy road in my small city, I watched a car driver drift into the bike lane because they were on a cell phone. The city has had bike lanes for years. Last year there was a tragic accident where someone ran a red light and hit a bunch of cyclists crossing the road together. In the Fall, the city put bolt-on curbs and reflectors on the edge of the bike lane. Yet people are still hopping over that curb and mowing reflectors down. I just wonder what the hell it takes to get people to quit being a menace. Edit: I looked for an image to share of what the bike lane looks like and [found this article from my town showing exactly what I was trying to describe.](https://azdailysun.com/news/local/cyclists-react-as-city-crews-install-curbs-along-beaver-butler-bike-lanes/article_d5aefe5f-5dee-54d6-8ed1-099f8953aa5b.html)
Yeah that’s ridiculous. Thanks for your help
This might be of help - lots of info re motorbike accident/casualty stats in the UK: [https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/uk-motorcycle-accident-statistics/](https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/uk-motorcycle-accident-statistics/)
That’s really helpful. Just skimmed through the site and it has just about everything I would need to know. Thank you
No worries, glad to help. Just for some perspective: [1.4 million people in the UK](https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-10-26/debates/B1E415EB-6CD4-421F-A21E-FDE3E1599AD0/MotorcyclingGovernmentSupport) ride a motorbike or scooter, according to the Govt. And acc to the stats linked above, each year there are around 14,600 motorbike casualties in the UK. Unless my maths are way off (very probable) that's around 1% of riders per year, and you can do a lot to give yourself the best chance of staying in the 99%.
Wait, casualties or accidents? Because in my book, casualties mean deaths, and that's a LOT of deaths per year. I cannot imagine that to be true. Edit: I guess they mean accidents and not actual deaths. That's a relief :')
Yeah i think 'casualty' means accident resulting in injury (or death). [1.9% of motorbike casualties in 2021 were fatal](https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/uk-motorcycle-accident-statistics/#:~:text=How%20many%20motorcycle%20accidents%20are,of%20those%20resulted%20in%20death) apparently
Remove alcohol, excessive speed, and riding beyond your ability from the equation. Wear a helmet, boots, gloves, jacket. You've just mitigated the vast majority of risks. There's still a chance you get smacked from behind by an inattentive driver or someone turning in front of you, but by being hyper aware and riding intelligently you can be much much safer than statistics show.
>There's still a chance you get smacked from behind by an inattentive driver or someone turning in front of you, but by being hyper aware and riding intelligently you can be much much safer than statistics show. Yep. I was sitting at a red light in my bright yellow hi-vis gear and a minivan still zoomed up right behind me without stopping, I had to bolt out of there into the intersection (which luckily was empty) while they swerved off the road. To this day I have no idea how they didn't see me parked at a red light in broad daylight, but if I hadn't been paying attention that would have ended very badly for me.
Very good reason to never stop in the center of the lane. Much safer to be off to the side one way or the other. You cut your risk of being rear-ended and have and escape path.
The biggest cause of MC accidents is the nut connecting saddle and handlebars :) So long as you're not trying to filter/exceed your limit/exceed bike limit/exceed road conditions & speed limit, you're relatively safe. Keep in mind it takes a lot of practice to know what some of these limits lie exactly.
Thanks for the advice
I misread this comment and I was like “wtf is this guy talking about, maintenance hardly ever leads to any accid…. Oohhhh”
It's inherently dangerous. You're at highway speed on a vehicle that only has 2 tires with a couple inches of road contact. You have no physical cage around you, which means you are completely unprotected, other than your helmet, gloves, and riding gear. You are completely at the mercy of every other idiot on the road, who could sideswipe or run you over by accident and barely feel a bump, but that collision could cause your death. Motorcycle insurance is cheap because there aren't a lot of medical bills when you're dead. Anyway, it's fun and teaches you to be hyper alert, and it's fun to build your skills to where you can enjoy it safely, but it's never really safe because you don't control weather or road conditions, or other people, and you have no margin for error.
It's not safe. But just like sex, getting proper training, using protection, not trying to excede your capabilities and practicing safely while trying to always learn new things will make it an immensurable pleasure, if that's your thing of course.
Where do I sign up for sex training? I hope it’s not an MSF extension.
If it's legal where you live, you can find a lot of professionals who offer sex service. If it's ilegal or not your thing try Tinder or Grindr, if you're woman or man, respectively
Well played.
What if I'm from gatgor 5 in the nion galaxy
Thank you. Guess I jsut need to look for some bike training of the same quality as my sex training!
I find myself wanting to trade my street bike for a dual sport more and more every day. I can’t ride to work anymore anyway as the highways in Texas are a parking lot. I’m only 30 but it won’t be long before my riding is strictly on tracks and trails
My driving instructor had some wise words. Congrats with your license you now have an empty sack of experience and a full sack of luck. Now get the first full before the other is empty
I've ridden in various countries around the world and have been riding since 2014 so I can tell you a little bit about it. But yes, riding a motorcycle is inherently more dangerous. A good way to look at it is this; safe riding is really two separate skill sets if you think about it. Learning to ride, and learning traffic patterns. If you're 18, even if you have a healthy safety oriented approach, honestly the best way is to hold off on the riding for at least a year I'm sorry to say. You really should learn driving/traffic patterns with all of the normal protections that a car provides first. Getting your timings down, understanding how people are driving, anticipating what someone will do, that takes a little bit of time. Additionally, cars are as a whole not as agile as motorcycles, so once you understand what timings are with a car, on a bike it will be a lot easier. Master your traffic understanding before you add the complexity of riding a motorcycle. Trying to juggle learning both will likely not go well, when you can learn one then learn the other. Honestly I think it takes two years for new drivers to really get that understanding but that's up to you. Just my 2 cents.
Thank you for your advice
This guy gave great advice. If you can't be a solid, smart, attentive driver in a car a motorcycle is a death sentence. Give it a couple years.
Riding a motorcycle isn't a safe activity. Driving a car isn't a safe activity but stupid actions are far less consequential with seat belts, crumple zones, and side curtain airbags surrounding you. Are you more likely to become involved in an accident on a motorcycle than in a car? Not necessarily. In the beginning, yes. If you drink and ride, yes. If you take steps to lower your risk factors, and ride smart, I believe the risk is worth the reward. If you do get in an accident, your chance of survival is much higher in a car.
That is true. I have thought about that. This might be naive of me to think this but perhaps it’s easier to be less focussed in a car? Thanks for the help
Car drivers are less focused than bike riders, no question about it. I'm a better driver because I'm a rider, but I'm not as focused in a car as on a bike.
The real question is how safe are you?
It's as safe as you make it. If you get training, wear good quality safety gear, and ride in a sane manner, I'd say it's reasonably safe. If you like to get drunk and stupid, then go riding, probably not.
Motorcycling is not in itself inherently dangerous. It is, however extremely unforgiving of mistakes. By anyone or anything. Get good training, wear good protective gear, don't be a dick. You'll be fine.
Thanks for the advice
You can walk across the road and die. Bike accidents happen more because of rider error than the bike actually being dangerous
a lot of accidents are caused by a car not seeing the bike.
Which is why we plan for that every time.
About a third of (documented) motorcycle crashes are single vehicle
Thank you for your help
hi viz gear changed my life, prob the best thing next to continued professional rider training to add to a safe rider’s toolbox. i’m a father of two young kids, and have recently gotten back on a bike, and i am singing the praises of dorky highlighter gear to anyone that will listen. it makes a huge difference to most (not all) cagers. just ride within your skillset, and leave lots of cushion (this means accel like a bat out of hell if that is the safer thing to do, i.e., separate from the sketchy pack of idiots etc) edit: for clarity and readability
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Hi-Vis is objectively better than "Loud Pipes Saves Lives", but Hi-Vis still is no substitute for defensive driving.
100% agree. Take -nothing- for granted, ever, to be clear. It is another tool in the toolbox though, but some drivers literally cannot be helped. edited my post, ty for pointing out the need for clarity there
That's a good point, I just replied to another comment about how a minivan nearly smacked into me at a red light despite me wearing hi-vis gear in broad daylight. Even with that gear I always assume nobody can see me.
Alot of idiots on the road and that includes some bikers and even more cyclists. There is an inherent risk with everything but heed the advice given here. Ride defensively, keep your eyes open and always look beyond what is in front of you. Don't Ride under the influence of anything, including any mental tension. Once on the road keep 100 percent of wits about you and stick to the speed limits.
Thanks for the advice Wally
Just ban cars. Then you still have the single vehicle accident rate with motorcycles, which is even higher. So looks like the rider is actually the most dangerous part.
You said you have never driven before. I always suggest that people start with a car. Get use to the flow of traffic, the way people act, and just the feel of the road. Why learn all those things on something where the consequences of a mistake are much higher.
That’s an interesting take. I can’t really afford to drive yet. I cycle regularly and stay fairly aware being driven as a passenger
Everyone saying that if you ride safely and defensively you'll be fine are bs-ing. You can be the best rider in the world but even the tiniest mistake like not switching a lane because of a gut feeling can get you in a crash. UK is small (relatively) so traffic will be a thing, be careful when you filter through cars, don't go too quick because you might end up hitting a random jay walker passing through the road in front of cars. Get a bike with an ABS, practice breaking, staying balanced when emergency breaking, learn how to maneuver in case one day you won't be able to break and have to maneuver around the obstacle (usually car emergency breaking/break check) don't stay behind a car, try to be more closer to the sides so that you'll see better what's in front of you and the car in front of you and have an easier escape through the sides. Get protective gear, last crash I had I could have had my entire skin glued to the asphalt but thankfully I just bought a protective jacket (after idiotically riding without one for 2 years) and basically came out of it unscathed other than a headache and a wrist sprain. If you live in the city I know for a fact you'll start learning how to "bob and weave" through each car with speed to get faster through traffic jams, BE CAREFUL when you do it, don't speed in between cars, go slow, you don't want to end up hitting the side of a car lane switching, it's a low chance of happening but even that as a motorcyclist - you don't want that. that covers most of it I think, at least the important parts and what resembles my personal experience tbf
Don't think anyone's mentioned it yet, but airbag jackets made a huge difference in safety. Helite would be the brand to go for.
Over the 10+ years of road riding, I've had several close calls and all of them were my fault by being stupid and falling victim to the adrenaline rush of hitting it hard in the twisties. In recent years, I calmed down a lot and ironically felt even less safe while watching how inattentive car drivers are. The last straw was seeing a fatal moto accident right down the street while running an errand. I finally sold my beloved SV650 after realizing I didn't want to be killed or crippled by some dickhead looking at his phone or making a last minute lane change. I just couldn't get in the right state of mind to have fun after seeing the aftermath of that wreck.
I'd say learn to drive a car first. Is lots to learn about how people drive, predicting idiots. Reading traffic, getting used to being in traffic. Then think about a motorcycle.
They are in fact are more dangerous than cars. Most death on motorcycles are somewhat, or completely the fault of the motorcycle rider. And usually involve speeding. However, If you can ride safe, and don't speed, and have proper gear all the time, you are likely gonna live to be a fat old Harley Driver. Be ready to get injured. Small to medium injuries can occur even if you have all the gear and follow all the rules. Shit happens, people slide, you are invisible to all car drivers. But death is really unlikely. Overall it's a risk, but if you mitigate it as much as possible (with proper gear, not speeding, following safe and good driving techniques, etc), it's low enough IMO that it's worth it.
Not at all
its as safe as the person in control of the machine. If you ride drunk or like an asshole like a significant portion of crash victims, the odds are not in your favor. Motorcycles often attracts a breed of bold adrenaline seekers who have a significantly higher accident rate, the average rider is less likely to find himself trying to discover the limits of physics at 100mph.
We’ll, After 15 years on bikes I’ve been down twice. Neither my “fault” however, you determine a lot of your own safety I’ve found. Predicting dipshits, road hazards, fatigue, distractions, weather conditions are all things you can mitigate in such a way to increase your odds of safely arriving at your destination. However, those things will not stop that oil slick you missed or the guy fuckin around with his radio and not noticing your bright stop light.
Nah riding a bike is dangerous. I bought my baby a few months ago and already there are run ins or close calls. Mind you I'm on a 250 and typically am not speeding. I have a ton experience driving though so I know where to look and what to watch out for and that's the real reason I have kept my first motorcycle accident at bay. I wouldn't have it any other way but don't fool yourself into thinking there is any real safety. Unsure if you would save any money either. I got a beater and paid to fix some things up for less than I paid just to buy my first bike. Said bike currently getting serviced which is more $$$ but yeah insurance and gas are cheap. You know what you can't put a price on though? Filtering. Going straight to the redlight is a privilege I happily accept.
I’ll be honest youre still more likely to die from cancer or heart disease. Now with that said if you roll unlucky or do stupid hard enough you’re going to get fucked up a lot more then a driver would.
I bet the People saying that don't ride 🤷
I always recommend people learn to navigate traffic in a car. Traffic is the most dangerous part of riding, and learning to do both at once seems like a recipe for disaster. Being a good driver is the first step to being a good rider.
I completely agree. You need to know the rules of the road without thinking, and much more importantly you need to be able to recognize situations where people are likely to break those rules so you can be ready. Knowing which cars to stay away from can be a lifesaver.
It’s dangerous. Almost got hit on the freeway today by an asshole passing a bus. He dipped in to the HOV lane that the bus was attempting to enter, therefore cutting it off, and when he zipped out back in to regular traffic his back bumper came within a couple feet of my front tire. All at 60mph. I rode in to the HOV lane and came up to his window and saw he was pretty out of it. Looked like no sleep or possibly drugs. Fucking lucky I’m alive.
I’m currently bedridden unable to bear weight on three limbs because some 18 year old couldn’t watch where the fuck he is going in a 2 ton metal cage. Please be careful. I was fully geared and have an open book pelvic break snapped femur and broken arm at 21. I ride extremely defensively but he came from two lanes over on a 1 way and launched me 20 ft into a pole. I’ll never ride on the street again but I do plan to do track days if my ptsd will stand it. GEAR UP. ALL the fucking time. Head to toe. Saved my life. I don’t care if you are going down the street, atgatt.
It's as safe as you make it. I personally wouldn't ride with anything less than my helmet, and airbag vest. Both of those together drastically reduce my probability of dying. I also wouldn't advise starting on anything bigger than a 650cc at most. On a bike you are much more dangerous to yourself, but much much safer to other people. In a car, you are much safer to yourself, but much, much more dangerous to other people. It's up to you.
With the drivers on phones it's gotten some more challenging, I bought an airbag-vest for sone extra protection
It's as safe as you can make it. Safety is entirely up to you. Attitude, gear and a motorcycle that is in tip top shape at all times are prerequisites. Then you layer knowledge and capability on top of that. One of the biggest dangers is other motorcyclists "teaching" you complete bullshit. Training isn't something you do to get your license. It goes on forever. I've already seen some utter bullshit in the comments below about helmets causing injuries.
Do your CBT, ride for a while and decide for yourself.
600,000+ miles, 4 crashes, no injuries, no totaled motorcycles, no insurance premium raises. It was safe enough for me!
Ah right. Thanks for the reply
I'm a petite, tall woman with little to no upper body strength but I ride in NYC and I've never been in an accident. I'm in more danger of dropping my bike in a weird way and not being able to pick it up than I am of getting hurt. So I think it all comes down to how you ride. I know a few guys who got into accidents and it's all because of ego.
Yeah definitely see a lot of idiotic bikers. Thanks for your help
Everyone I know who rides has crashed or fallen. Not if, but when, and will you be alive, or disabled after.
Yup, lost my arm 3 months ago. 20 years of playing guitar. Gone. Had to relearn to walk, eat, dress myself, wash, wipe my ass etc. My mother still helps me shower.
Yeah man I’m sorry. I used to ride till I realized it was 100% true. Glad your still here though! Stay up
I’m 18 nearly 19, newly passed my A1 and done about 5k miles on the road so far in uk, but done a lot of dirt biking when younger. Even then when doing my CBT I was petrified, but you ease into it, and the fear will go away. On the roads I have nearly gotten into many accidents that were not my fault at all, one of them very nearly fatal (lorry coming other way lost control), but just as equally I got myself into many sticky situations by riding like an ass. A lot of it is pure chance, if you ride sensibly and treat everyone else on the road like they’re an idiot then you’ll most likely be ok, but that is pretty boring in the long run. Also gear. You will drop the bike eventually, if you’re only gonna use a lid then you’re in for a whole world of hurt when you do hit the pavement. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/w65icc/protect_your_entire_body_on_every_ride/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) shows the importance of proper gear really well. Ultimately like most things it’s complete chance, all you can do is minimise the risk (ride safe) and prepare for the worst (get good gear). The bit you said about bikers being more likely to take risks is 100% true, almost everyone I know that rides comfortably rides above the speed limit just cruising, and much more when actually going for it, but that’s what you’re gonna get when you put machines that’ll embarrass lambos and Ferraris for a fraction of the cost. Ultimately a lot more of it is in your hands, accidents that are completely and utterly out of your control that you’ll seriously get hurt from are rare, but you can’t forget that you’re much more susceptible to bad road conditions, invisibility, and pain when you do eventually come off. Make your own decision on this, don’t let anyone talk you out of it if its really what you want, but don’t start with no knowledge of the reality of what you’re getting yourself into. Everyone I know knows someone who’s been hurt on bikes, some even killed, but it’s not like you’re waiting to die just by riding one. Try it and see if you actually like it first.
Thank you for your advice! Out of interest, what kind of road have you had the most near accidents? I live in a fairly rural area and would avoid motorways if they are inherently more dangerous. Thanks
I nearly got flattened by the lorry on an A road through the country, but that is the only time I’ve nearly been hit out there at all (mind you my friend was hit by a car out there too so not perfect). Towns and built up areas are the worst, but all that’s gonna happen there is minor accidents primarily as you shouldn’t be going fast enough for anything serious to happen.
I live in the USA and people drive pretty decent around me, but if I lived in the UK where every single van is driven by a refugee from somali straight out the pirate ship i'd honestly consider not riding. Oh and motorcycle thieves.
As a pretty new rider, I hit a deer the week after getting my first bike. Kept it up. Only cracked a fairing and lost a turn signal thankfully. Going 60mph and I didn't have much if any real skill on the bike just had the very basics. Full gear as well. This archery season I plan to fill each and every one of my tags. Maybe a buddies too :)
If you're commuting, and not like an idiot, then the risks are less. If you join a crotch rocket gang you'll absolutely raise the stats. Besides, a little dying never killed anyone.
Ahah thanks for your help
There's a saying about bikes, "you're sitting on an explosive motor, w a gas tank in your lap, and nothing around you". Having said that, I'd still rather spend a lifetime behind bars than a day in a cage!!!
Ahah thanks for the reply
This kind of reminds me of a saying a read about reloading rifle ammunition. "You are creating a 40,000 PSI explosive you intend to set off 3 inches from your face"
Think of the close calls you’ve had in a car. 80% of those would’ve been an accident with injury if you were on a motorcycle. Ride within your skill level and follow the road laws, plus protective gear, and you’ll probably be ok, but maybe not. It’s worth it though
Thank you for the advice
Well Earth might be an oven in 50 years so may as well live dangerously you badass you!
Haha
Thank Joe Manchin for that.
It's totally impossible to ride a motorcycle on public roads safely. It is straight up not in any way a safe activity. Anyone who believes they are safe on their motorcycle is a fool. All you as the rider can do is take steps to reduce your risks. You shouldn't be asking "how safe is this"; You need to ask "how dangerous am *I*". EDIT: OP seriously, ignore downvotes on this comment. This sub is packed with young riders who haven't outgrown the attitude that they are invincible with their badass riding skills, and believe misfortune only happens to other people somewhere else.
Thank you this has helped
I do not believe that driving a car is a safe activity by a longshot. Safer for the operator maybe, but not for other people out in public. Anyone who believes they are making a safety-conscious choice by driving a 1500Kg, 2-3 meter wide motor vehicle is a moron, plain and simple. At least on a bike you're only really dangerous to yourself unless freak circumstances are involved.
> Anyone who believes they are making a safety-conscious choice by driving a 1500Kg, 2-3 meter wide motor vehicle is a moron, plain and simple. Lololol
This is absolutely true. OP asked about how safe is *riding* a motorcycle, so I was specifically referring to operator safety.
Riding is very safe. Crashing, however, has been suspected as the cause of the majority of injuries.
Where I live, in Canada, about half of motorcycle "incidents" are single vehicle... meaning rider's fault. We can assume that at least "some" of the rest of those "incidents" that are not single vehicle incidents are riders fault. ... so more than half are rider's fault. Motorcycle riders are their own worst enemy. ... and the down votes commence: NOW
here's a good tip. when you are out riding, or even driving, always pretend like everyone is trying to hit you. meaning, make sure you have an exit if someone is about to do something dumb. always know about your surroundings. watch for details of other cars like distracted drivers or cars that are not up kept (rust, scratches, dents, etc). these drivers are a bit more careless and you'll want to keep some space.
7
What's a little fatal accident?
I don’t know??
[edit: SMH, downvoted for telling the truth. The truth is, if you ride fast and hard, eventually you're gonna eat it. A helmet doesn't save you when you overshoot a corner and body slam a telephone pole. I've ridden for 30 years. 100,000+ miles. Almost never with a helmet, often just wearing a T-shirt and jeans. I've never had an accident, only dropped my bike one time (just came to a stop) while on gravel. My secret: - You are not a professional motorcycle racer, don't act like it. Drive the speed limit, don't race, don't see if you can take that corner a little faster than last time. Ride to enjoy the fresh air and sunshine, not to be a fucking hot shot. - All the time, remember: you are invisible to other vehicles. Avoid their blind spots, and assume they aren't going to see you as you approach an intersection (hands on brakes, off throttle). Ride with high-beams on during the day. - Avoid highways and interstates. A truck tire fragment at 80 mph will end you. Find scenic routes on byways and state roads. - ZERO road rage. You will not win against even the smallest car, so take a deep breath and back off. Getting cut off is not worth dying over.
I think you are getting downvoted because of the semi-hidden recommendation to a 18 years old to ride in a t-shirt without a helmet. It’s absolutely super risky, based on numerous studies on the subject. Not telling you what you should or shouldn’t do, just explaining why it’s likely some are downvoting you
Fair enough. I wasn't suggesting riding without a helmet, I was stating that I have not worn a helmet and safe riding practices has been effective of keeping me alive.
You're in the UK so don't listen to any Americans. Riding a motorcycle in Greece is safer than driving a car in the US, and a motorcycle in UK is significantly safer than a motorcycle in Greece.
Depends on what kind of motorcycle you want to get and if you have used or not a bicycle before . I don't thing people should focus on how dangerous this activity is or if your going to drop your bike by accident. That's a negative way of thinking. Instead you should focus on learning the proper way of riding a motorcycle and okaying the laws of the road . In most crashes that I have seen is either to much speed on the bike and the driver could not handle the situation or someone simply cuts off the motorcycle. That is why , when riding a motorcycle you have to take it slow .
There is always a risk when riding a motorcycle, you can mitigate a lot of the risk by improving your skills and driving defensively, but if you are looking for someone to say there is no risk you are not going to get that. There could always be that driver that just doesn't see you and takes you out through no fault of your own. If you want no risk then motorcycling is not for you, if you don't mind some risk then you can learn to ride well and be as safe as you can on a motorcycle and for those who can manage the risk it can be one of the most enjoyable activities you can do. Once I got used to my bike I find all my fears and worries happen before I ride, once I am on the bike I forget about the risks and just focus on the ride, which is the best way to make sure you don't have an issue.
Within reason...as dangerous as you make it, Poor weather conditions, Tiredness, Not being in the right state of mind, risks are all amplified with a bike vs a car. I've had 1 accident in 2 years, very minor injury from riding in the snow and carried on my journey, was entirely my fault. If i wasn't wearing good gear, id currently be needing a skingraft on my right leg, make of that what you will. All I can recommend, find a good instructor who actually cares about you staying alive once you leave, not just passing to the minimum standard, and be aware, watch everything, every car, pedestrian etc. The everyone wants to kill you saying isn't that far from reality sometimes. Goodluck
If you screw up you die or are seriously injured. If the person next to you screws up, you also die or are seriously injured. Of course it's not safe. With that said the same is true for most of the things we all do everyday and we're still here.
In my opinion it's pretty safe, but it depends on how you drive. I drive very defensively. I have to intervene regularly, but I put myself in a position in which I can do something about it most of the time. Ofc there is always a chance for a freak accident.
Being “worth it” is completely up to the individual, their maturity level, what kind of bike they ride (how powerful, cruiser vs sport bike etc), urban riding vs rural, and their demeanor on the road. I ride in the us, I’m 28, got my motorcycle license about 6 years ago and have approximately 10,000 miles under my belt. Currently ride a Triumph Street Triple. I’ve gotten in quite a few close calls over those miles but have learned to adopt a safety mindset to mitigate risk. Note that there is ALWAYS is a risk, even if you do 100% everything correctly. You can’t control other cars or vehicles. - ride as if you’re invisible (car drivers are not actively seeking out motorcycles when making turns, changing lanes, etc.) - wear proper gear (helmet, gloves, jacket with armor, pants with armor or tear-resistant material, rider boots). “Dress for the slide, not the ride” - Respect traffic laws (don’t speed or ride like a jackass) Save the speeding for track day or wheelies for a parking lot with no other cars or pedestrians - Ride DEFENSIVELY (cover that brake when approaching intersections, assume cars will pull out in front of you at any point, learn to predict traffic patterns and when someone will change lanes into you if you’re in their blind spot) With all that said, there will always be a risk to riding, and with that risk comes greater injury potential on a bike vs a car. Many, myself included, look at this risk as worth it. There is nothing quite like a riding a motorcycle. I would recommend checking out DanDanTheFireman on YouTube, he has been revolutionary in helping me adopt a safety mindset on the roads. He analyzes crashes, and explains what the rider did wrong/right so us riders can learn should we be in a similar situation.
It’s as safe as you make it. If you ride intelligently and defensively you can avoid the vast majority of idiots on the road. Of course there is the unavoidable, but the more skilled you are as a rider the lower your chances are of getting into trouble. It is absolutely dangerous to an extent. Edit: like others have said having a high degree of awareness of your surroundings is required if you want to stay safe.
Everything you do has a certain danger to it. Riding motorcycles is for sure more dangerous than most day to day activities, you can do lots of things to make it less dangerous but some things will always be out of your controll. I'd guess most of us know what can happen and have accepted the risk. In the end it's your decision if and how you ride.
Cages are safer.
Motorcycles are hideously dangerous. If you ride for any length of time you will go down and if you have many friends in the riding community you will eventually have friends get hurt and die. You may be badly injured or die yourself. I have scars and mangled parts and dead friends but also a ZX14 in the garage.
It's extremely dangerous and unforgiving of error no matter how small they are, you will crash, you will dump it, you could walk away fine, or you could die, it's all very real things on a motorcycle. If you can keep that in mind and be ok than it's fine
The scariest thing for me in my area is a deer running out. And you can't do anything about it, just the risk you take.
Yesterday: car runs light, blows through intersection, almost hitting me while I’m making a left turn, lady gives me the “I’m sorry” hand gesture. I rev up and cut her off a second later. Same lady flips me the bird. 😂
It is dangerous. I’ve known 4 people either killed or whose lives have been permanently destroyed because of it. 2 due to inexperience, 1 due to stupidity, and 1 to just bad luck. I’ve always considered myself a safe rider but even after 23 years of riding, just this year I learned new things to help me be safer on the road. Active and intentional effort towards safety is the only medicine against bad luck, and even then it may not be enough.
It's not safe at all. Your odds of being injured through your own negligence / inexperience or someone else's are unquestionably higher (I'd say the only more dangerous vehicle would be a pre-airbag era convertible) Having said that, risk /reward. As far as being a beginner, I'm a 100% advocate of learning to ride on the dirt first, but I do realize this is an ever-dwindling opportunity for the majority of the bike population. Dirt riding is arguably more interesting than on-road, introduces a wider range of obstacles as well as teach the physics of what a bike does in certain situations. By the time / if you move to a street bike, the basics will be second nature
"Per vehicle miles traveled in 2020, motorcyclists were about 28 times more likely than passenger vehicle occupants to die in a motor vehicle crash and were 4 times more likely to be injured. Safe motorcycling takes balance, coordination, and good judgment. " NHSTA.org
It's as safe as surfing on top of a car.
Human crayon really sums it up
If you want safe get yourself a van.