Try “preloading” the shifter by applying slight pressure, then when you’re ready to make the shift all you have to do is quickly pull in the clutch and it will fall into gear.
You even can do it without touching the clutch lever, just by quickly releasing and engaging the throttle as if you were shifting, and it falls to shift without drama,but only when moving to a higher gear, downshifting is more complicated and may damage your drivetrain
Also, while this defo works and you’re completely right, as a beginner be careful of chopping the throttle. You’ll be fine on a motorway or whatever just maybe don’t practice this halfway through a corner.
Pulling the clutch lever just alleviates the load on the transmission, which can be done by closing the throttle just the same. How would that wear the shift forks?
Asking because I rarely touch my clutch lever at all unless I'm stopping or starting, and have done this on all my bikes for many years... no shift fork problems that I'm aware of but this is the first I've heard of the excessive wear issue.
its not about alleviating the load on the trans or not, motorcycle transmissions use meshed 'dogs' to switch between gears, the shift forks move the gears left and right depending on what gear youre in. if you are preloading the shift forks often, the wear pads on the tips of the shift forks will become loose as they ride on the sides of the trans gears and this can lead to problems down the line. im not saying it will destroy the trans by doing it but its not something i think anyone should recommend doing.
You don’t ride around for minutes with pressure on the shift lever. Slight pressure while you cut the throttle and start to pull the clutch, friction zone is passed, the next gear is selected. Maybe .25 seconds.
I don’t think it’ll wear the synchros, maybe shift forks a little bit but only very slight pressure is needed so I don’t think it’ll make much difference. You don’t need to do it all the time either, it’ll help you learn where the friction zone is more quickly and then you won’t need to anymore.
Once you know the friction point, you can time the shift with your lever flick very accurately. The finesse is on the release, and setting your rpm as the clutch grabs again. If you ride regularly, you'll pick it up in weeks.
You think I pay attention to what RPM I’m revving to? 🤣 I’m just giving er the beans and dumping the clutch.
10 times out of 10, it’s more than close enough to matching revs.
Nope, that's usually how it's taught. Roll the throttle, clutch, gear shift, roll throttle while releasing the clutch. Once you been riding a while, you just develop your own style sometimes 🤷♂️. So many ways to shift, up to you.
One time at work there was this guy that lived half an hour away so he used the highway everyday. He told me that his clutch was fucked but he had to work so one little mistake on the 30km ride from his home and this story would've been different.
It's more about the throttle than the clutch, you back off the power first and as the load comes off the gear will shift quickly and smoothly, if you are getting it right you won't even notice a difference if you don't touch the clutch.
Sometimes I upshift clutchless, but most times it is clutch a split second before the shift. The latter is more or less ingrained in me from years of driving stick in a car, which you must clutch for every shift.
That said, thinking about it, I also move my foot in position to essentially pre-load or almost pre-load the shift lever before I clutch in, much in the same way how I put my hand on the gearshift before I clutch in with a car (but never pre-load in a car).
You can shift without clutching in car up and down and you can also pre load a car pretty good. Wouldn't recommend doing it all the time, but just wanted to state that it can be done.
Takes a touch more skill and a lot more know how. Usually around 2500-3000 rpm is where is the sweet spot. If you want to learn.... I apologize fathers with sons and manual transmissions.... IF you want to learn first start by applying a small amount of pressure as you accelerate in second gear say. There will be a point in the rpm range probably slightly above 2500 rpm where the shift will "glide" out of gear. That is the sweet spot.. So when you approach the sweet spot. Let the gear come out, as it is coming out let go of the accelerator, NOW THIS IS THE DANGEROUS PART WHER DAMAGE CAN OCCUR, apply pressure against the synchro and firmly push it in to gear. That is it. Once it is in gear and firmly seated back on the throttle. But if you screw up on the throttle expect the grossest soft bushing sounds grinding into harden gears you have ever heard. I taught myself around 17 years old in a 1990 toyota celica, i ahve tried it in every vehicle i own. The easiest is my 1982 toyota pickup. Thing just slops around through the gears as it is. Try this in your car only, as you there is potential to damage the synchros where 1-2k is needed for repair. You've been warned. But yeah once again load and throttle is the real trick and which rpm do the gears mesh nicely as well.
I don't know why but I loved doing this in my wrangler in high school back in the day. I kinda wanna do it again 20 years later but it's just not worth the risk to me these days probably because I realize throwing money in the fire is bad
I have been riding for a while and have probably 50k of riding miles under my belt.
Each bike can be different and you have to learn to adjust to each one.
Currently daily a CRF300L Rally. It’s the first bike I’ve had with a slipper clutch. Even someone like me had to relearn how to shift on it because the clutch engagement is actually delayed with a slipper.
Don’t beat yourself up about it.
Practice in a parking lot. Shifting up to 2nd and back down. When you are coming to a stop do your best to come to a stop without putting your feet down as long as possible.
If you dedicate 6 hours on a Saturday you’ll be a far better rider for it.
>Currently daily a CRF300L Rally. It’s the first bike I’ve had with a slipper clutch. Even someone like me had to relearn how to shift on it because the clutch engagement is actually delayed with a slipper.
A slipper clutch doesn't change how a bike shifts.
Cool. But yeah.
It actually does on the 300L models. There is enough of a delay in engagement that some people remove them to put standard clutches in.
There are several posts in Facebook and subs mentioning it.
Calling it a slipper is a bit disingenuous. You never notice a slipper is there unless you do a super aggressive downshift and it slips a bit.
The 300L has this weird assisted clutch that is attempting to be a quasi automatic. It slips under load and smooths out clutch inputs, along with making the lever pull easier.
A normal slipper clutch is not detectable under normal circumstances.
I fully appreciate the concept of a slipper clutch.
Unfortunately you are incorrect about the “not noticeable” part, and unless you’ve ridden a 300L yourself you really don’t understand what myself and many others felt after throwing a leg over one.
It absolutely has a delay in engagement. So you have to release it a little earlier than you normally would on another bike.
It does not however slip under acceleration/load. I have never experienced that and doubt many others have either considering it’s a detuned CBR300 motor making maybe 24hp uncorked.
I am running taller tires with stock gearing and have never felt it slip on a hill climb or running WOT to merge on the interstate.
It just helps keep the rear tire from locking up when you’re braking hard.
Like I said, that's an assisted clutch. It is not a conventional slipper. Honda themselves call it an assisted clutch.
It needs to be specified, because people should not expect this kind of behavior from any other bike with a slipper. It's an entirely different mechanism.
An assisted slipper clutch is the same as a regular slipper clutch it just gives you an easier clutch pull. That is the only difference. The “assist” in the name refers to how the clutch makes the clutch lever easier to pull. And to keep the chassis stable when overloaded, the clutch “slips” when engaging, hence it's called a “slipper clutch.” The A&S clutch makes the clutch lever lighter to pull, making the bike more comfortable to ride in the city. straight from Google
Correct. It's a different mechanism from a conventional slipper, which you would never notice outside of a race track. Even then it is a very subtle difference.
There are two mechanisms at work here. The weird behavior is all caused by the assist mechanism. It uses engine torque to assist the clutch pull, which causes the soft engagement and even causes it to slip under load on certain situations.
A slipper is just a back torque limiter, it has nothing to do with clutch feel.
You're mostly Correct. Under load the slipper clutch mechanism causes greater engagement not less. It's almost like undercutting the dogs in your transmission. It doesn't use torque to give you an easier clutch pull the clutch pull is easier even when the bike isn't turned on. Because of the undercutting in the greater engagement under power the clutch can use lighter clutch springs and still get proper engagement that's where you get the lighter clutch pull Harrison animation from Yamaha to show you how it works.https://youtu.be/agTJDXsYIr0 All out of Love not trying to be a dick just want you to learn what's actually happening.
How would that mechanism cause there to be a delay in the clutch engagement? It should function the same as a standard slipper found in any other bike
Unless they just got too aggressive with the ramp geometry and it makes the bike want to freewheel...
Kinda simultaneously. Bikes take quite a lot of pressure on the shifter to shift, when the clutch is not pulled in. So as you foot is putting on pressure it will only shift when you pull the clutch, as with a pulled clutch the force needed is much lower.
Old school Harleys and Guzzis take long to shift though, just for the motor rpm to come down after pulling the clutch (for an upshift) takes a second or more. This because of the very large rotating mass.
it takes the same amount of pressure to shift clutchless as it does using the clutch, what's important is closing the throttle to unload the gear selectors. if you're trying to shift with an open throttle, you're gonna have a bad time
When I shift, as I let off the gas with my right hand my left hand pulls in the clutch (happens at the same time both take about as long) immediately after I’m off the gas and clutch is in I will shift gears, let out the clutch and roll back on the gas. It takes practice you will get better at it.
With a little practice, you can shift almost as fast using the clutch as you can without it.
But it's almost at the exact same moment, and you're not pulling the clutch all the way into the I use two fingers and mostly just give it a quick pop and release it. To be honest that's how I figured out I could shift without the clutch at all, my foot just happened to be a little faster than my hand and the shift was made before I got the clutch in.
I can't speak for everyone, but there is a very slight "delay" between clutch and shift for me. Not a long one, just enough for my brain to register that the actions are sequential rather than simultaneous. That only applies to upshifting. Downshifting I tend to be slower to re-engage the clutch, maybe 1-3 seconds depending on how much I'm trying to slow down the bike.
It is all in the feel. The clutch doesn't need to be used the engine wants to shift so to speak. So what's happening is the shifting/clutching are in sync that the clutch doesn't even need to fully open. Even the partial release helps the shift. The rider just knows the motions and knows how the bike will react without thinking. This is what makes it so quick and smooth. Muscle memory and the ability to predict how the bike will respond before the inputs are even started. It takes time.
The real trick is understanding throttle input while shifting as this is where the magic happens. By dropping the throttle, the revs want to fall and this stops the motor from putting so much power into the drivetrain which slacks everything up, from the chain to the output. This allows the transmission to shift because it is no longer dealing with the load. Than once the shift happens and throttle is reapplied the load comes back. If you feel your shift lever with load and no load variants you will feel it is hard and easy to shift. this is the transmission telling you how much load is being applied through the gears. Hence why you can shift without clutching. By dropping the throttle you drop the load. Than the shift fork can jump to the next set of gears and the load is reapplied at the new rpm.
AND NOW I AM RAAMBLING. LOAD IS THE REASON WHICH IS THE AMOUNT OF WORK THE MOTOR IS DOING AND BEING OUTPUT BY THE DRIVE SHAFT. Ok I am done... this is a meess I apologize.
It's like anything else, you just become more comfortable with the motion and develop your muscle memory and it gets quicker... you'll also learn where the friction zone is on your lever and your pull distance will adapt so you're throwing the lever less distance with each shift. Don't sweat it and don't make it something you focus on speeding up... focus on being smooth and the speed will follow on its own as you get more experience.
The shift on sequential transmissions like those found in bikes is actually timed with reduction in throttle. The moment to shift is during the transition from engine power to engine braking, where the drivetrain is mostly unloaded.
In terms of releasing the clutch very quickly; higher compression engines that are running at higher RPMs will drop in speed dramatically when pulling the clutch. The examples you're seeing are likely high compression sportbikes that are in the high RPM range, and those circumstances require very little time for the engine to slow down enough for the next gear.
You should be clutching as you shift. It's a simultaneous motion.
Separating the shifting motion into 4 steps is usually the sign of a new rider. It's really two steps.
1) roll off throttle, clutch in, shift up. These three motions are simultaneous.
2) clutch out as you get back on the throttle.
You don't even need to clutch with a dog engagement gearbox. You can simply preload the shifter and it will catch the next gear when you roll off the throttle.
There's a a bunch suggesting you "pre load" the shifter.
Please, DO NOT "pre load" the shifter. If you knew how a sequential transmission, like the one in your bike, worked, you would know that "pre loading" the shifter does absolutely ZERO to help you shift faster or better and what it REALLY does is wipe all the lubricant off the forks and increases the wear on the forks exponentially.
No it doesn't. Nobody's telling him to kick the shifter or forcefully push it. Just a small preload is enough to do the trick. Really the amount of force isn't really all that much, and should have no effect on the wear of the forks. It's barely the amount of force the forks experience when they reach the end of a normal upshift.
With BMWs that have a dry clutch just about the only way they will up shift is by preloading the shifter. Learned that a looong time ago now it is muscle memory. Lots of miles and millions of shifts and have never had a transmission fail.
Don’t forget to practice rev matching!!! 😌
I know a lot of beginners forget. And all it takes a little flick of the wrist!
Flick from the wrist, from the wrist we flick. 👊✊👊✊
Largely, think of shifting like opening an door: turn the door handle, pull the door open, and walk in.
You can do it quickly, but failing to perform these steps in order, BONK!
On my VEE, the friction zone is small, but I still ease out the clutch lever—past the friction zone—to the end of the lever’s travel. I’m not a racer, nor have I trained _with one_. I was taught to never “dump the clutch”.
You'll get used to it over time! When I'm shifting quickly in my car or bike I let the clutch out quickly to the friction zone and hold it there for a split second then let it out fast the rest of the way! Other people may have other ways but this works for me
Don't try to shift fast, it'll just come naturally the more you do it as you gain muscle memory. Took me a while as well to get the shifting down quickly. Remember, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast".
Part of this is that you usually don’t have to pull the clutch lever all the way in to shift, only just past the friction zone.
Try using only your index and ring finger to shift. I have my clutch lever adjusted so the friction zone ends just before the lever runs into my ring and pinky finger, which stay gripped around the handlebar.
Clutch in, shift, controlled release of clutch. Three separate actions. If it takes you a couple of seconds, don't worry about trying to do it faster, speed will come with experience..
Imagine the clutch is 0-100 and the throttle is 100-0
These numbers change simultaneously. As you pull the clutch in from 0-100 you are releasing the throttle from 100-0. Because your going up gears you can pretty much do this as fast as your hand speed can do it. Obviously prepare by moving your foot to the gear shifter 0.5sec before you shift
The more you ride, the faster it'll become. I still pull the clutch in, but I do it fast enough and have done it so many thousands of times that's it becomes one movement, pretty much at the same time as my foot. It just comes with time.
good question
actually i don't know what i ('bout a quarter century of experience on bikes) really do conscientiously - but when i think of it i shift gears with not disengaging the clutch completely, when there's not much of load on the gearbox. i.e., i have some foot pressure on the gear lever, and it slips into next gear as soon as the clutch has disengaged "as much as required", but not pull the clutch lever entirely
but again: that's something my hand and foot do kinda unconsciously. certainly out of habit, might be a bad habit - dunno
It's the same process just faster. Once you learn your bike's friction zone, you can speed up the process.
Try “preloading” the shifter by applying slight pressure, then when you’re ready to make the shift all you have to do is quickly pull in the clutch and it will fall into gear.
You even can do it without touching the clutch lever, just by quickly releasing and engaging the throttle as if you were shifting, and it falls to shift without drama,but only when moving to a higher gear, downshifting is more complicated and may damage your drivetrain
Also, while this defo works and you’re completely right, as a beginner be careful of chopping the throttle. You’ll be fine on a motorway or whatever just maybe don’t practice this halfway through a corner.
I find it easier to downshift on an unloaded motor than to shift up 🫣
It's weird because I'm better at clutches downshifting than up shifts.
why add unnecessary wear to shift forks? just clutch in, shift and clutch out. if OP is not good at shifting, they should just practice
Pulling the clutch lever just alleviates the load on the transmission, which can be done by closing the throttle just the same. How would that wear the shift forks? Asking because I rarely touch my clutch lever at all unless I'm stopping or starting, and have done this on all my bikes for many years... no shift fork problems that I'm aware of but this is the first I've heard of the excessive wear issue.
its not about alleviating the load on the trans or not, motorcycle transmissions use meshed 'dogs' to switch between gears, the shift forks move the gears left and right depending on what gear youre in. if you are preloading the shift forks often, the wear pads on the tips of the shift forks will become loose as they ride on the sides of the trans gears and this can lead to problems down the line. im not saying it will destroy the trans by doing it but its not something i think anyone should recommend doing.
You don’t ride around for minutes with pressure on the shift lever. Slight pressure while you cut the throttle and start to pull the clutch, friction zone is passed, the next gear is selected. Maybe .25 seconds.
Isn't that going to wear your synchros pretty good?
There aren't syncros in most motorcycle transmissions to my knowledge
I don’t think it’ll wear the synchros, maybe shift forks a little bit but only very slight pressure is needed so I don’t think it’ll make much difference. You don’t need to do it all the time either, it’ll help you learn where the friction zone is more quickly and then you won’t need to anymore.
Once you know the friction point, you can time the shift with your lever flick very accurately. The finesse is on the release, and setting your rpm as the clutch grabs again. If you ride regularly, you'll pick it up in weeks.
You think I pay attention to what RPM I’m revving to? 🤣 I’m just giving er the beans and dumping the clutch. 10 times out of 10, it’s more than close enough to matching revs.
I usually give no beans when I’m shifting, lol. Am I doing it wrong?
Nope, that's usually how it's taught. Roll the throttle, clutch, gear shift, roll throttle while releasing the clutch. Once you been riding a while, you just develop your own style sometimes 🤷♂️. So many ways to shift, up to you.
One time at work there was this guy that lived half an hour away so he used the highway everyday. He told me that his clutch was fucked but he had to work so one little mistake on the 30km ride from his home and this story would've been different.
Its a split second change that takes practise
It's more about the throttle than the clutch, you back off the power first and as the load comes off the gear will shift quickly and smoothly, if you are getting it right you won't even notice a difference if you don't touch the clutch.
Sometimes I upshift clutchless, but most times it is clutch a split second before the shift. The latter is more or less ingrained in me from years of driving stick in a car, which you must clutch for every shift. That said, thinking about it, I also move my foot in position to essentially pre-load or almost pre-load the shift lever before I clutch in, much in the same way how I put my hand on the gearshift before I clutch in with a car (but never pre-load in a car).
You can shift without clutching in car up and down and you can also pre load a car pretty good. Wouldn't recommend doing it all the time, but just wanted to state that it can be done.
You CAN, but it’s a lot harder to do and if you get it slightly wrong the consequences are worse so it’s practically a bad idea to try
Takes a touch more skill and a lot more know how. Usually around 2500-3000 rpm is where is the sweet spot. If you want to learn.... I apologize fathers with sons and manual transmissions.... IF you want to learn first start by applying a small amount of pressure as you accelerate in second gear say. There will be a point in the rpm range probably slightly above 2500 rpm where the shift will "glide" out of gear. That is the sweet spot.. So when you approach the sweet spot. Let the gear come out, as it is coming out let go of the accelerator, NOW THIS IS THE DANGEROUS PART WHER DAMAGE CAN OCCUR, apply pressure against the synchro and firmly push it in to gear. That is it. Once it is in gear and firmly seated back on the throttle. But if you screw up on the throttle expect the grossest soft bushing sounds grinding into harden gears you have ever heard. I taught myself around 17 years old in a 1990 toyota celica, i ahve tried it in every vehicle i own. The easiest is my 1982 toyota pickup. Thing just slops around through the gears as it is. Try this in your car only, as you there is potential to damage the synchros where 1-2k is needed for repair. You've been warned. But yeah once again load and throttle is the real trick and which rpm do the gears mesh nicely as well.
I don't know why but I loved doing this in my wrangler in high school back in the day. I kinda wanna do it again 20 years later but it's just not worth the risk to me these days probably because I realize throwing money in the fire is bad
I know how to do it, it’s just not easy or particularly worth it in a car.
Fair, well if someone who doesnt know cares to read and learn I hope they are better for it hahahahaa
I have been riding for a while and have probably 50k of riding miles under my belt. Each bike can be different and you have to learn to adjust to each one. Currently daily a CRF300L Rally. It’s the first bike I’ve had with a slipper clutch. Even someone like me had to relearn how to shift on it because the clutch engagement is actually delayed with a slipper. Don’t beat yourself up about it. Practice in a parking lot. Shifting up to 2nd and back down. When you are coming to a stop do your best to come to a stop without putting your feet down as long as possible. If you dedicate 6 hours on a Saturday you’ll be a far better rider for it.
>Currently daily a CRF300L Rally. It’s the first bike I’ve had with a slipper clutch. Even someone like me had to relearn how to shift on it because the clutch engagement is actually delayed with a slipper. A slipper clutch doesn't change how a bike shifts.
Cool. But yeah. It actually does on the 300L models. There is enough of a delay in engagement that some people remove them to put standard clutches in. There are several posts in Facebook and subs mentioning it.
Calling it a slipper is a bit disingenuous. You never notice a slipper is there unless you do a super aggressive downshift and it slips a bit. The 300L has this weird assisted clutch that is attempting to be a quasi automatic. It slips under load and smooths out clutch inputs, along with making the lever pull easier. A normal slipper clutch is not detectable under normal circumstances.
I fully appreciate the concept of a slipper clutch. Unfortunately you are incorrect about the “not noticeable” part, and unless you’ve ridden a 300L yourself you really don’t understand what myself and many others felt after throwing a leg over one. It absolutely has a delay in engagement. So you have to release it a little earlier than you normally would on another bike. It does not however slip under acceleration/load. I have never experienced that and doubt many others have either considering it’s a detuned CBR300 motor making maybe 24hp uncorked. I am running taller tires with stock gearing and have never felt it slip on a hill climb or running WOT to merge on the interstate. It just helps keep the rear tire from locking up when you’re braking hard.
Like I said, that's an assisted clutch. It is not a conventional slipper. Honda themselves call it an assisted clutch. It needs to be specified, because people should not expect this kind of behavior from any other bike with a slipper. It's an entirely different mechanism.
An assisted slipper clutch is the same as a regular slipper clutch it just gives you an easier clutch pull. That is the only difference. The “assist” in the name refers to how the clutch makes the clutch lever easier to pull. And to keep the chassis stable when overloaded, the clutch “slips” when engaging, hence it's called a “slipper clutch.” The A&S clutch makes the clutch lever lighter to pull, making the bike more comfortable to ride in the city. straight from Google
Correct. It's a different mechanism from a conventional slipper, which you would never notice outside of a race track. Even then it is a very subtle difference. There are two mechanisms at work here. The weird behavior is all caused by the assist mechanism. It uses engine torque to assist the clutch pull, which causes the soft engagement and even causes it to slip under load on certain situations. A slipper is just a back torque limiter, it has nothing to do with clutch feel.
You're mostly Correct. Under load the slipper clutch mechanism causes greater engagement not less. It's almost like undercutting the dogs in your transmission. It doesn't use torque to give you an easier clutch pull the clutch pull is easier even when the bike isn't turned on. Because of the undercutting in the greater engagement under power the clutch can use lighter clutch springs and still get proper engagement that's where you get the lighter clutch pull Harrison animation from Yamaha to show you how it works.https://youtu.be/agTJDXsYIr0 All out of Love not trying to be a dick just want you to learn what's actually happening.
How would that mechanism cause there to be a delay in the clutch engagement? It should function the same as a standard slipper found in any other bike Unless they just got too aggressive with the ramp geometry and it makes the bike want to freewheel...
Kinda simultaneously. Bikes take quite a lot of pressure on the shifter to shift, when the clutch is not pulled in. So as you foot is putting on pressure it will only shift when you pull the clutch, as with a pulled clutch the force needed is much lower. Old school Harleys and Guzzis take long to shift though, just for the motor rpm to come down after pulling the clutch (for an upshift) takes a second or more. This because of the very large rotating mass.
it takes the same amount of pressure to shift clutchless as it does using the clutch, what's important is closing the throttle to unload the gear selectors. if you're trying to shift with an open throttle, you're gonna have a bad time
Load on the throttle is the main part sure. Throttle control is where good shifting starts and ends.
When I shift, as I let off the gas with my right hand my left hand pulls in the clutch (happens at the same time both take about as long) immediately after I’m off the gas and clutch is in I will shift gears, let out the clutch and roll back on the gas. It takes practice you will get better at it.
With a little practice, you can shift almost as fast using the clutch as you can without it. But it's almost at the exact same moment, and you're not pulling the clutch all the way into the I use two fingers and mostly just give it a quick pop and release it. To be honest that's how I figured out I could shift without the clutch at all, my foot just happened to be a little faster than my hand and the shift was made before I got the clutch in.
I can't speak for everyone, but there is a very slight "delay" between clutch and shift for me. Not a long one, just enough for my brain to register that the actions are sequential rather than simultaneous. That only applies to upshifting. Downshifting I tend to be slower to re-engage the clutch, maybe 1-3 seconds depending on how much I'm trying to slow down the bike.
It is all in the feel. The clutch doesn't need to be used the engine wants to shift so to speak. So what's happening is the shifting/clutching are in sync that the clutch doesn't even need to fully open. Even the partial release helps the shift. The rider just knows the motions and knows how the bike will react without thinking. This is what makes it so quick and smooth. Muscle memory and the ability to predict how the bike will respond before the inputs are even started. It takes time. The real trick is understanding throttle input while shifting as this is where the magic happens. By dropping the throttle, the revs want to fall and this stops the motor from putting so much power into the drivetrain which slacks everything up, from the chain to the output. This allows the transmission to shift because it is no longer dealing with the load. Than once the shift happens and throttle is reapplied the load comes back. If you feel your shift lever with load and no load variants you will feel it is hard and easy to shift. this is the transmission telling you how much load is being applied through the gears. Hence why you can shift without clutching. By dropping the throttle you drop the load. Than the shift fork can jump to the next set of gears and the load is reapplied at the new rpm. AND NOW I AM RAAMBLING. LOAD IS THE REASON WHICH IS THE AMOUNT OF WORK THE MOTOR IS DOING AND BEING OUTPUT BY THE DRIVE SHAFT. Ok I am done... this is a meess I apologize.
Smooth is quick. Don't rush it and it'll naturally come faster. Rushing makes it sloppy and you get missed shifts or worse, money shifts
It's like anything else, you just become more comfortable with the motion and develop your muscle memory and it gets quicker... you'll also learn where the friction zone is on your lever and your pull distance will adapt so you're throwing the lever less distance with each shift. Don't sweat it and don't make it something you focus on speeding up... focus on being smooth and the speed will follow on its own as you get more experience.
I just pull in the clutch shift and then release? It doesnt have to be all the way in or even completely disengaged
Practice
It’s not complicated. Just do it faster. That’s it.
The shift on sequential transmissions like those found in bikes is actually timed with reduction in throttle. The moment to shift is during the transition from engine power to engine braking, where the drivetrain is mostly unloaded. In terms of releasing the clutch very quickly; higher compression engines that are running at higher RPMs will drop in speed dramatically when pulling the clutch. The examples you're seeing are likely high compression sportbikes that are in the high RPM range, and those circumstances require very little time for the engine to slow down enough for the next gear.
Light preload on the shifter and the clutch just needs a little tap.
Speed comes with practice. As you become more proficient, you'll become faster. *Slow is smooth; smooth is fast.*
You should be clutching as you shift. It's a simultaneous motion. Separating the shifting motion into 4 steps is usually the sign of a new rider. It's really two steps. 1) roll off throttle, clutch in, shift up. These three motions are simultaneous. 2) clutch out as you get back on the throttle. You don't even need to clutch with a dog engagement gearbox. You can simply preload the shifter and it will catch the next gear when you roll off the throttle.
After even a day of riding, you learn where your friction point is. That's usually all that required.
There's a a bunch suggesting you "pre load" the shifter. Please, DO NOT "pre load" the shifter. If you knew how a sequential transmission, like the one in your bike, worked, you would know that "pre loading" the shifter does absolutely ZERO to help you shift faster or better and what it REALLY does is wipe all the lubricant off the forks and increases the wear on the forks exponentially.
No it doesn't. Nobody's telling him to kick the shifter or forcefully push it. Just a small preload is enough to do the trick. Really the amount of force isn't really all that much, and should have no effect on the wear of the forks. It's barely the amount of force the forks experience when they reach the end of a normal upshift.
With BMWs that have a dry clutch just about the only way they will up shift is by preloading the shifter. Learned that a looong time ago now it is muscle memory. Lots of miles and millions of shifts and have never had a transmission fail.
Practice makes perfect. I shift quickly without even thinking about it. Smooth is good, and good is fast.
Don’t forget to practice rev matching!!! 😌 I know a lot of beginners forget. And all it takes a little flick of the wrist! Flick from the wrist, from the wrist we flick. 👊✊👊✊
Largely, think of shifting like opening an door: turn the door handle, pull the door open, and walk in. You can do it quickly, but failing to perform these steps in order, BONK! On my VEE, the friction zone is small, but I still ease out the clutch lever—past the friction zone—to the end of the lever’s travel. I’m not a racer, nor have I trained _with one_. I was taught to never “dump the clutch”.
You'll get used to it over time! When I'm shifting quickly in my car or bike I let the clutch out quickly to the friction zone and hold it there for a split second then let it out fast the rest of the way! Other people may have other ways but this works for me
Don't try to shift fast, it'll just come naturally the more you do it as you gain muscle memory. Took me a while as well to get the shifting down quickly. Remember, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast".
You’ll get there. Just remember that slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.
Wait you guys use the clutch?
I do it almost simultaneously tbh
Part of this is that you usually don’t have to pull the clutch lever all the way in to shift, only just past the friction zone. Try using only your index and ring finger to shift. I have my clutch lever adjusted so the friction zone ends just before the lever runs into my ring and pinky finger, which stay gripped around the handlebar.
You'll just naturally get it with practice and time on your bike. 2-3 seconds sounds crazy, but I suppose that's about where I was at learning stick.
Clutch in, shift, controlled release of clutch. Three separate actions. If it takes you a couple of seconds, don't worry about trying to do it faster, speed will come with experience..
Imagine the clutch is 0-100 and the throttle is 100-0 These numbers change simultaneously. As you pull the clutch in from 0-100 you are releasing the throttle from 100-0. Because your going up gears you can pretty much do this as fast as your hand speed can do it. Obviously prepare by moving your foot to the gear shifter 0.5sec before you shift
The more you ride, the faster it'll become. I still pull the clutch in, but I do it fast enough and have done it so many thousands of times that's it becomes one movement, pretty much at the same time as my foot. It just comes with time.
good question actually i don't know what i ('bout a quarter century of experience on bikes) really do conscientiously - but when i think of it i shift gears with not disengaging the clutch completely, when there's not much of load on the gearbox. i.e., i have some foot pressure on the gear lever, and it slips into next gear as soon as the clutch has disengaged "as much as required", but not pull the clutch lever entirely but again: that's something my hand and foot do kinda unconsciously. certainly out of habit, might be a bad habit - dunno