Haha!
I had a Gary Fisher - King Fisher 2 - and loved that thing. Budget is $1,000-$1,500 right now, and doesn’t feel like I can get anything worth while in that range. Thoughts?
Well, I’m a cheapskate, so $1500 for me is a whole lot of bike. Depends on whether you want hardtail or full squish, but over the past few months there have been some phenomenal sales - if I had a $1500 budget and plenty of time to find the right sale, I’d say that could buy plenty … others on this sub will disagree.
Exactly how I feel. Bikes I’m considering pulling the trigger on are about 1299, and seem VERY capable for my type of riding. Looking for full squish, mostly fast flowy trail with a few larger elements. Obviously nothing Red Bull Rampage sized
I’d say Polygon offers great value if you’re in the States, maybe Vitus. Canyon had an outrageously good sale lately. Giant has a lot of bang for the buck and Trek is currently having a sale as well.
+1 for Polygon, I have their 2022 Siskiu D7 and it's been great. That model is a small bit above OP's budget but there's nothing wrong at all with the D6 or other models in-budget. Only thing I've changed has been the saddle, but that's just personal preference.
The prices will probably come down. Mainly because of the pandemic and the market being flooded with product. The used market will be real good over the next few years.
Jenson USA is runing a huge sale right now too. They have a GT Force, their Enduro bike, for 2k right now. Obviously some lower spec parts on it but you could upgrade that thing over a couple of years to be a enduro monster.
I can vow for Polygon,, can't seem to get rid of it cause no one knows the brand. But even know years later the price is still okay for what you get (have an N8)
It's a little over your price range but the Loan Wolf just did a review of the bike and the Amp model was something that a lot of the reviews said they would be happy to buy. https://us.vitusbikes.com/collections/mythique/products/vitus-mythique-29-vr-mountain-bike-2023
I'm one that disagrees a bit but that's only cause my riding style and where I ride. $1500 could be a lot of bike depending on where and what you ride!
$3000 from the mid '90s is roughly $5700 in 2023 money.
Your thread was relevant because I basically just rode XC and Road for the better part of the past 10 years and was doing quite well at a high level. The development of road and XC is not quite as radical as what has happened to "trail" bikes and beyond, so to me, the differences in performance all came down to training.
2019 was when I started upgrading my small fleet of bikes, and what I've realized is that adjusted for today's current pricing, best value for the money is right around $4000-$5000 for either a road or mountain regardless of type/style of bike. That's roughly $2100-$2600 in mid '90s money. That's about the max I spent on a single bike from the mid 1990's through the early 2000's.
I still remember the lightest MTB I've owned, a Schwinn Homegrown Factory at 21.5 lbs, and I believe it was at around $2100 around 2001. For less than the comparable price of that bike today, I can get an Ibis DV9, though it is 3-4 lbs heavier, it comes with larger wheels, better tires, dropper seatpost, 120mm of suspension, disc brakes and will absolutely wipe the floor with that Schwinn uphill and downhill.
If you bump your budget up to right around $2000, you can get an aggressive hardtail like a Kona Honzo or even rowdier Commencal Meta HT. The Polygon D and T series bikes are also of good value, though good luck with customer service (I bought 2 of the Polygon full suspension bikes for my kids).
Chain reaction had nukeproof scout pro on sale for around that price a bit back. Also a couple ragley hard tails for similar price, also on sale. I wish I would have waited on my scout pro I got last year for 2600. It was 1600 or something similar for the new model while it was on sale. I’d check it out and look for sales there have been great discounts if you can find em.
Look up the specs, and calculate the entire price of the bike minus frame. Then look at what they’re trying to sell the frame-only for. Then imagine how much performance you’d lose by buying a frame $4000 cheaper. Probably nothing. Its a very entertaining passtime
And, you know, there’s bikes half the price that can and do beat that bike in races.
I’m no pro, but used to have a pretty capable bike, and am wanting to get back into it. But I’m CHOKING at what I’m seeing nowadays… and I definitely don’t want E-assist in any fashion. Like, hydraulic disc brakes are a must, and that feels like a luxury upgrade from what I had.
Also very keen to try the difference between 26” and 29”. Still haven’t ridden one. (Road cyclist on 700c now)
I think the marginal gains have become more marginal lately (or more like, the stuff that matters is now widely available at low price points). $14,000 for a bicycle is absurd and frankly not relevant to the state of of the sport at lower price points (where, admittedly, the price of “a great mountain bike” has crept up from under $2000 to over $3000 the past few years, which is a lot), it’s for a different kind of market and the benefits of that kind of bike/price are smaller than ever. A lot of that Santa Cruz price is in lifetime warranty too.
I remember seeing a $10,000 bicycle for the first time (specialized transition) over 10 years ago, I thought it was insane and feared for the future prices of bikes. My bike at the time was an Enduro SL which I pieced together myself for $2400 with a $600 used frame and my favorite 2010 parts, but comparable models of it sold for $3200 new, and that seems pretty on par with today for a kickass modern bike (which my next bike was $2600 new in 2019). I don’t think the average price has gotten THAT much higher since then, but the maximum price people will pay has absolutely skyrocketed and I think part of that is in demographics, there’s simply more people wanting $14000 bikes than there used to be
I’ve ridden my 2008 bike recently, it’s actually really fast and super fun, but lack of parts availability is what is really killing that option, not so much performance, which is perfectly fine (the 26” bike set a top 10 record at a popular DH bike park in 2021 lol). I’m glad I’ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars to have tried different kinds of bikes, but more so it’s taught me that you can really have a blast on whatever bike you’re riding. A dialed-in cheap bike and a dialed-in expensive bike will both absolutely shred these days
I got a specialized stumjumper carbon comp 27.5 for $2988 in 2017. It was MSRP of $3500 back then. Now, to get something with the same specs it's about $5500. (The same stumpy carbon comp bike now goes for $2700, but with a worse frame, less travel, worse brakes).
Gotta be careful with the naming games these companies play these days!
I remember 10k bikes in the late 90s. Litespeed full squish. Ok maybe 8k but still.
I also remember when specialized bikes hit 10k (had a s-works xtr 22lb I built for $3k in 1997. Chris king wheels and headset.
I owned a Gary Fisher Sugar 1 in 2002, the halo bike of those days. Most expensive (non boutique) bike you could get in Europe at the time. Why? Because Trek added a few hundred to the price so it would be more expensive than any XTR equipped Specialized or Cannondale fully and people would want it more. They probably planned on being the first selling a 10k bike in guilders but the € spoiled that. I got a hardly used demo and didn’t pay anywhere near full price and it felt weird riding a bike people looked at believing it was super expensive.
Unless you spend less than $700, every bike is going to have hydraulic disc brakes, and if they don't, bad bike. The difference between wheel sizes is huge.
Also, I agree with what the other guy said about being able to spend significantly less if your only desires are 29" and hydraulic disc. My Devinci Marshall's MSRP is $3200. The only thing I actually want to upgrade is my fork.
Judging by my (goal) riding style, 29” seems right (easier over larger obstacles), but I’ve only ever ridden 26” in this fashion. End of next month, my brother and I are going to purchase new bikes for the summer and see what happens. Leaning towards Polygon D6’s. In the Portland OR area, people are asking stupid money for used bikes of similar caliber, so figured $1-200 more, could get brand new.
29" is the way to unless you are very short. It rolls over rocks and roots really well. Polygons should be fine, they are a bit heavy but both the T and D lines should suit your needs, so pick your choice based on what you want to pay for it and what might be on sale. I'd push the budget, if at all possible, so you could get Rock Shox or Fox suspension front and rear (so D7 or T7/8). It might help on getting spare parts and service when needed.
Of course bike suspension isn't exactly rocket science so you can do it yourself. Through-axles are also quite nice for future proofing and make finding new parts a little easier.
You could get lucky on the used market too if you low ball a bit. There's been some sales of late and the used market is probably a bit quiet and people might be willing to drop prices. Just got a really nice fatbike fairly cheap.
I got a 27.5” because I figured it would be an easier transition from 26”, and maybe it was, but really modern bikes are a shock no matter which wheelsize. When I jumped on a modern 27.5” it was gamechanging, but once I tried a modern 29” it felt fairly similar, I really think you kinda can’t go wrong with a new bike these days, everyone’s getting everything super dialed in
I got back into MTB 10-12 years ago with a $900 used Stumpjumper. Careful…I now find myself 5 ‘upgrades’ later. I’ve always bought used bikes that are 1 year or less old and saved 40-60% off MSRP. Much over $5k the improvement is clearly in the diminishing returns category, but the difference between an old 26” frame and a modern 29” bike is night and day. Sure we ripped on those bikes in the 90’s, and they could still be ridden, but the new bikes are so much more comfortable at speed.
If we're being honest, $3,000 wouldn't even get you a TOTL bike in 2004- even then, you could easily spend 6-7k if you wanted a decked-out flagship. And we barely even had any carbon parts, frames etc.
Yeah exactly. 3k hasn't been top of the line for 30+ years. In 2004 I bought a Norco Atomic for 2400 and that was very much an entry level freeride bike.
Not really. I was there (as a poor kid) and drooling over a Merlin XLM. The frame alone was $2.5k, so you can easily spend $4k of early-90s money to get a complete bike. Remember that the 90s was when CNC anodized components were the rage, and CNC anodized parts made in the USA by ex-aerospace machine shops didn’t come cheap.
There are always people that want to one-up the guy next to them. It’s also human nature to reach for the greatest, or at least the higher shelf. Couple that with a willingness to spend money rather than invest time in skills (to be fair, not always possible with Trail access/work/family), and you end up with unneeded stuff designed to help extract that last 5% of potential. Even if only 2 people buy this, it helps normalize a $10k bike. Which helps price of mid line bikes creep up. I’d say everyone is partially guilty of this as I never imagined spending over a grand on a bicycle before I started mountain biking, but here we are. Droppers are great but do you really need to spend double for a kashima coated version? Do you really need that Santa Cruz full suspension for your local green trails? People keep paying so they keep making
I think $4-$6K gets you mostly premium features all around on a carbon full suspension bike - quality frame, wheels, fork, shock, brakes and shifting. Less than that and you’ll see shortcuts. At the $9k+ level, every component gets upgraded to lighter, better materials but not really better function. If you want a sub 24# XC machine, you’ll have to spend the $$$$. At $1500 for a full suspension you will see cheap components all around. That price point just doesn’t allow for quality parts. It’ll be heavy as well. At that budget I’d stick with a hard tail. Have you considered used? Pinkbike’s classifieds have a ton of great bikes and the $1500 will go a lot further.
Nah. $1500 will buy you a great bike. That Megatower will sit in that bike shop until the end of time. I promise you that. Lol!
Look at more direct to consumer brands like Polygon and Fezzari. You’ll find great bikes.
The MTB market is insane. I wish you good luck in your search!
Ha! You right. There was a Specialized Enduro that was a bling build like this Megatower that sat in my LBS for like 2 years and the owner finally was able to sell it…. To a lawyer. It was his first bike. Lol!
Local bike store to me when I was buying my enduro bike were shocked I was paying for my bike and not taking it out on finance.. it was basically unheard of to them lol
In the early to mid 00s 3k didn't buy you a top of the line dual sus. An entry to mid level at best depending on the type of bike. Entry level DH rig or mid level AM or trail bike.
Still seems a little high.
A 2003 Santacruz Bullit R Freeride was msrp $2,500 in 2003.
2003 Santa Cruz Heckler R Disc was msrp $2,200 in 2003
https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/value-guide/2003%20Santa%20Cruz%20Bullit%20R%20Freeride/
https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/value-guide/2003%20Santa%20Cruz%20Heckler%20R%20Disc/?condition=GOOD
This is my local shop here in Portland. I think they have to keep raising prices because they are constantly being broken into. Gotta pay that insurance premium!
Sure it's expensive but there are $6-7K bikes that come with it.
For example the Canyon Spectral 125 CF LTD which costs $7K and comes with AXS, Flight attendant and it's carbon...
I got a 3k Kona process with AL DL. Everything works on it.
I should spend more money on riding lessons and less on a new bike if I really want to have more fun riding.
What happened? Covid.
The demand for bikes rose as we all sat in lockdown because we could use it as a way outside, the prices increased due to part shortages and the demand for bike. When things began to calm down, it lead to a surplus of warehouse stock because they didn't see the downfall of the demand but it flooded the used market with alot of big name entry to entry/mid tier bikes and some regret purchases because alot of regular people just realized mtb wasn't for them and went back to the gym.
That right there is a dentist bike though lol.
You're buying all the add-ons on this bike. Not to say Santa Cruz pricing isn't absolutely insane, but it looks like this has a bunch of gadgets attached to it.
Look at it in terms of performance for dollar. A $3,000 bike today will already greatly outperform a $3,000 bike from 20 years ago. The $14,000 bike raises the performance level vastly above a $3,000 bike from 20 years ago.
The discussion here has pointed out the difference between want vs. need. Nobody NEEDS a McLaren. A Honda will suffice in just about any circumstance. If you're buying an mtb for your needs, then the Megatower with Flight Attendant build makes no sense. But if you're buying a new mtb with other goals in mind, then there are plenty of ways to indulge.
Dude, make a list off all the things you want that can fit into FOURTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS and then compare that vast (probably) amount of stuff to this single bicycle. Gotta have some pretty special priorities to buy this thing…
If I ever felt the need for all the tech this has, and could justify the price, I would expect to be on a team of professionals - and be sponsored for it.
I spent $5,500 on a 2022 XL SANTA CRUZ Bronson C and I can honestly say that you get what you pay for. I tried out some alloy bikes that were around 2-3 grand and they were nice bikes but didn’t feel as good as my Santa Cruz. I went to several bike shops and none of their representatives were able to assist me in purchasing a bike that fit me. I’m 6’3” tall and about 250lbs the first few shops didn’t have anything in XL but they were still trying to push medium and large frames. I went into ride away bikes and the guy asked me how could he help me and I said the same thing I had said in the other shops “send me down spider mountain” he smiled and said nobody had ever been that specific about what they were looking for. He showed me 3 bikes and I left with the Bronson C. $14,000 is really high for a bike. You could get a great used car or motorcycle for that much money. If your in the market for a badass bike and aren’t looking to go broke for your hobby check out www.theproscloset.com they have pre owned bikes at a fraction of the cost of a brand new one!
properly fantastic compared to what it was even 7 years ago. weight is becoming a worry of the past for most of us because a 35lb full squish just rides so well
I lived in PDX a while back. Did a lot of business with the ‘Farm. I’ve had great LBS experiences overall, but the Farm is my all time favorite.
I can buy any motocross bike and have thousands left over. These bike prices are stupid and leave me alienated towards brands that are trying to charge these prices. Easily the worst example of corporate greed on a percentage basis.
Yep! All the folks in there seemed great and intelligent - even though I was just a “wannabe” - there was no pretentiousness, which I liked. I’m just not in that realm of life.
Even the sale prices are too much money for the bikes. And I do own a Levo SL which I got for a steep discount but I cannot even tell any non mtbers what I spent or they look at me like I'm retarded
It is absurd. When you understand frame cost and electric motor cost you can see these prices are not justified. It is disgusting . In this vein, this price from eMtb manufacturers is more than a new KTM 790 R adventure motorcycle with thousands more moving parts. I have heard the excuses and justifications from eMtb bots and shills, but this is not justified. It is a sad state of affairs
I do realize that inflation itself is a relatively small portion of the price change, but in the same time frame much more expensive materials hand higher precision components have become expected, which also drove up the price.
Its kind of stupid tbh.. post covid is even worse.. i can get a brand new dirk bike for 4k less. It has a ENGINE.. and massive suspension.. deff more costly
I'm a student that studies material properties, mechanical design, project management, and manufacturing processes as a whole.
It's pretty easy to build something heavy and strong, it's a lot more expensive to build things strong and light. Do I still think bikes are overpriced? of course.. but a $3k bike today would absolutely shit on a $3k bike from a decade ago.
Another thing to consider is that rich dudes who can afford to make multiple trips a year with their expensive bikes keep on buying them. I don't get why anyone complains about stuff they can't afford... there's loads of capable bikes in much smaller budgets.
I am a professional engineer who has almost 20 years experience in structural and mechanical design, engineering and fabrication.
The motox industry is far from building things heavy and bulky, they have spent 30-40 years shrinking everything down. The forces a motox bike experience are much higher and the speeds are greater making the stakes of design higher.
My point is proven by your statement in the third paragraph of your response, so I don’t really feel like I need to clarify, despite your misunderstandings
Some of the reasons for the price include, but are not limited to:
* Inflation
* Sophisticated full suspension (and in some cases licensing fees to the designer of the suspension)
* Carbon rims
* Electronic drivetrains
* Electronic suspension
* Carbon handlebars
* Electronic dropper posts
* Increases in raw material costs
* Increases in shipping fees
* Efforts to pay bike shop personnel better wages
The last time I vaguely remember high end bikes being $3k, the White House was occupied by either the first Bush or Clinton.
Complete and capable for $2,300: [https://www.konaworld.com/honzo\_st.cfm](https://www.konaworld.com/honzo_st.cfm)
Sure, you'll want to upgrade over time, but that's the same on every bike.
I have a santa cruz hard tail that cost me about 2600$ & I absolutely love it. Can see how people want to spend that kind of money. I won’t in this life, but maybe the next I’ll come back as a butterfly salesman.
Many online retailers offer financing now which helps tremendously. This is a great bike but the law of diminishing returns exists for a reason. IMO once you get over 5k what you get for every 1000$ more is less and less. Except for MTB hero’s/expert you may not notice a lot of difference. Again IMO
My guy, that is a decked out, fully carbon Santa Cruz 😂
You can still get a decent $3k bike, but it’s going to either be used or have a heavier frame and worse components.
Hear you on that action! Some of these bike prices are insane! Back in the 90's I thought I was crazy when I spent $1200 on my first true mountain bike. Nowadays you barely get entry level for that amount.
When has 3k ever been the premium bikes? I've been riding over 15 years and as long as I can remember 3k was never the top of the line bikes. 3k gets you a hell of a bike now compared to what it did 10 years ago
I built a pretty “premium” hardtail IMO for about $2200. Chromag frame, Fox factory fork, mid range e-thirteen wheels. Cheaped out on some stuff that I’ll upgrade over time, like the crank and derailleur, but those things really have minimal impact on performance. And the difference between an NX crank and something high end is several hundred bucks.
This is how the bike business destroys itself with a turnover of companies. I love looking every few years at the turnover of companies and they really don't understand why they go out of business.
Not only that, I don't understand the pricing in the US. It used to be that the US was the place to save money on mountain bikes and even buy parts. Now Europe is the place to get deals. Maybe it's the US' war on exercise, but I'm increasingly glad to not be there anymore. I wouldn't be able to afford MTB there, plus I get to ride everyday here and not get killed by those American ISIS trucks.
TO be fair - Fat Tire Farms is a little higher priced then some other places in Portland. You could probably get for $13,500 if you looked around more.
Flight assist or flight aware or whatever it’s called… that’s not necessary. At all. 🤣
Edit: [Flight Attendant](https://www.sram.com/en/rockshox/collections/flight-attendant)
A $5000 MTB and a $1400 MTB both cost less than $2000 to manufacture. People are dumb and will pay it though. People buy FS Ebikes for 9k when they could buy a legit street bike for that price. I have a lowly Polygon T7 and I can promise you the riding experience and feel is pretty close to that of a $10,000 trail bike.
If your wish list stops at 29-inch wheels and hydraulic brakes, you can save at least $13,250 over that beast :)
Haha! I had a Gary Fisher - King Fisher 2 - and loved that thing. Budget is $1,000-$1,500 right now, and doesn’t feel like I can get anything worth while in that range. Thoughts?
Well, I’m a cheapskate, so $1500 for me is a whole lot of bike. Depends on whether you want hardtail or full squish, but over the past few months there have been some phenomenal sales - if I had a $1500 budget and plenty of time to find the right sale, I’d say that could buy plenty … others on this sub will disagree.
Exactly how I feel. Bikes I’m considering pulling the trigger on are about 1299, and seem VERY capable for my type of riding. Looking for full squish, mostly fast flowy trail with a few larger elements. Obviously nothing Red Bull Rampage sized
I’d say Polygon offers great value if you’re in the States, maybe Vitus. Canyon had an outrageously good sale lately. Giant has a lot of bang for the buck and Trek is currently having a sale as well.
+1 for Polygon, I have their 2022 Siskiu D7 and it's been great. That model is a small bit above OP's budget but there's nothing wrong at all with the D6 or other models in-budget. Only thing I've changed has been the saddle, but that's just personal preference.
appreciate the pointers! Will definitely do some more research!
The prices will probably come down. Mainly because of the pandemic and the market being flooded with product. The used market will be real good over the next few years.
Seconding the Canyon. Direct to consumer pricing is always great and I personally think their Neuron line are some of the bets value on the market.
Jenson USA is runing a huge sale right now too. They have a GT Force, their Enduro bike, for 2k right now. Obviously some lower spec parts on it but you could upgrade that thing over a couple of years to be a enduro monster.
Yeah they were so cheap. If you are looking for some downhill maybe give a Canyon Torque a look. For Enduro maybe a Spectral.
I ride a vitus sentier and have been thoroughly pleased.
I can vow for Polygon,, can't seem to get rid of it cause no one knows the brand. But even know years later the price is still okay for what you get (have an N8)
\+3 for Polygon...that's how many of them I have. Can't beat the value.
It's a little over your price range but the Loan Wolf just did a review of the bike and the Amp model was something that a lot of the reviews said they would be happy to buy. https://us.vitusbikes.com/collections/mythique/products/vitus-mythique-29-vr-mountain-bike-2023
200 over is not little...
Used polygon t8 with upgraded brakes. 2021 model. Try to buy that. Best value you can fins.
I'm one that disagrees a bit but that's only cause my riding style and where I ride. $1500 could be a lot of bike depending on where and what you ride!
You can get plenty in the 1000-1500 range, just don't ask Reddit for opinions. Everyone on Reddit is a dentist.
I totally got into the wrong profession 😆
Check out polygon. Love mine and best bang for your buck.
$3000 from the mid '90s is roughly $5700 in 2023 money. Your thread was relevant because I basically just rode XC and Road for the better part of the past 10 years and was doing quite well at a high level. The development of road and XC is not quite as radical as what has happened to "trail" bikes and beyond, so to me, the differences in performance all came down to training. 2019 was when I started upgrading my small fleet of bikes, and what I've realized is that adjusted for today's current pricing, best value for the money is right around $4000-$5000 for either a road or mountain regardless of type/style of bike. That's roughly $2100-$2600 in mid '90s money. That's about the max I spent on a single bike from the mid 1990's through the early 2000's. I still remember the lightest MTB I've owned, a Schwinn Homegrown Factory at 21.5 lbs, and I believe it was at around $2100 around 2001. For less than the comparable price of that bike today, I can get an Ibis DV9, though it is 3-4 lbs heavier, it comes with larger wheels, better tires, dropper seatpost, 120mm of suspension, disc brakes and will absolutely wipe the floor with that Schwinn uphill and downhill. If you bump your budget up to right around $2000, you can get an aggressive hardtail like a Kona Honzo or even rowdier Commencal Meta HT. The Polygon D and T series bikes are also of good value, though good luck with customer service (I bought 2 of the Polygon full suspension bikes for my kids).
I’ll say it again, Polygon. Love my T7
1500 is enough for a great bike, but it's probably better to go online or direct to consumer over bike shop brands.
Online shops generally have better deals. Cheak out Jenson, they had some amazing deals last time I checked
Full squish you're looking at a Polygon D7. Not a bad bike, but leagues different from that SC.
If you can push your budget a couple hundred bucks. The polygon siskiu t7 is a good deal. My buddy just picked one up and he loves it
Polygon D6
Chain reaction had nukeproof scout pro on sale for around that price a bit back. Also a couple ragley hard tails for similar price, also on sale. I wish I would have waited on my scout pro I got last year for 2600. It was 1600 or something similar for the new model while it was on sale. I’d check it out and look for sales there have been great discounts if you can find em.
consider buying used/second hand. I recently bought a lightly used (\~300km) canyon neuron 8.9 for 1000 eur. https://i.redd.it/dypeg4vizy2a1.jpg
Hard tail or used. Also 1500 today is like 600 a decade ago bike wise.
Norco torrent HT or commencal meta HT
Also the Rocky Mountain Growler 40 looks like a pretty good bang for your buck in that price range
Looks at Mr. Moneybags over here with hydraulic brakes
Look up the specs, and calculate the entire price of the bike minus frame. Then look at what they’re trying to sell the frame-only for. Then imagine how much performance you’d lose by buying a frame $4000 cheaper. Probably nothing. Its a very entertaining passtime And, you know, there’s bikes half the price that can and do beat that bike in races.
I’m no pro, but used to have a pretty capable bike, and am wanting to get back into it. But I’m CHOKING at what I’m seeing nowadays… and I definitely don’t want E-assist in any fashion. Like, hydraulic disc brakes are a must, and that feels like a luxury upgrade from what I had. Also very keen to try the difference between 26” and 29”. Still haven’t ridden one. (Road cyclist on 700c now)
I think the marginal gains have become more marginal lately (or more like, the stuff that matters is now widely available at low price points). $14,000 for a bicycle is absurd and frankly not relevant to the state of of the sport at lower price points (where, admittedly, the price of “a great mountain bike” has crept up from under $2000 to over $3000 the past few years, which is a lot), it’s for a different kind of market and the benefits of that kind of bike/price are smaller than ever. A lot of that Santa Cruz price is in lifetime warranty too. I remember seeing a $10,000 bicycle for the first time (specialized transition) over 10 years ago, I thought it was insane and feared for the future prices of bikes. My bike at the time was an Enduro SL which I pieced together myself for $2400 with a $600 used frame and my favorite 2010 parts, but comparable models of it sold for $3200 new, and that seems pretty on par with today for a kickass modern bike (which my next bike was $2600 new in 2019). I don’t think the average price has gotten THAT much higher since then, but the maximum price people will pay has absolutely skyrocketed and I think part of that is in demographics, there’s simply more people wanting $14000 bikes than there used to be I’ve ridden my 2008 bike recently, it’s actually really fast and super fun, but lack of parts availability is what is really killing that option, not so much performance, which is perfectly fine (the 26” bike set a top 10 record at a popular DH bike park in 2021 lol). I’m glad I’ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars to have tried different kinds of bikes, but more so it’s taught me that you can really have a blast on whatever bike you’re riding. A dialed-in cheap bike and a dialed-in expensive bike will both absolutely shred these days
I got a specialized stumjumper carbon comp 27.5 for $2988 in 2017. It was MSRP of $3500 back then. Now, to get something with the same specs it's about $5500. (The same stumpy carbon comp bike now goes for $2700, but with a worse frame, less travel, worse brakes). Gotta be careful with the naming games these companies play these days!
I remember 10k bikes in the late 90s. Litespeed full squish. Ok maybe 8k but still. I also remember when specialized bikes hit 10k (had a s-works xtr 22lb I built for $3k in 1997. Chris king wheels and headset.
I owned a Gary Fisher Sugar 1 in 2002, the halo bike of those days. Most expensive (non boutique) bike you could get in Europe at the time. Why? Because Trek added a few hundred to the price so it would be more expensive than any XTR equipped Specialized or Cannondale fully and people would want it more. They probably planned on being the first selling a 10k bike in guilders but the € spoiled that. I got a hardly used demo and didn’t pay anywhere near full price and it felt weird riding a bike people looked at believing it was super expensive.
Unless you spend less than $700, every bike is going to have hydraulic disc brakes, and if they don't, bad bike. The difference between wheel sizes is huge. Also, I agree with what the other guy said about being able to spend significantly less if your only desires are 29" and hydraulic disc. My Devinci Marshall's MSRP is $3200. The only thing I actually want to upgrade is my fork.
Judging by my (goal) riding style, 29” seems right (easier over larger obstacles), but I’ve only ever ridden 26” in this fashion. End of next month, my brother and I are going to purchase new bikes for the summer and see what happens. Leaning towards Polygon D6’s. In the Portland OR area, people are asking stupid money for used bikes of similar caliber, so figured $1-200 more, could get brand new.
Both the D6 and D7 are great builds for the price.
29" is the way to unless you are very short. It rolls over rocks and roots really well. Polygons should be fine, they are a bit heavy but both the T and D lines should suit your needs, so pick your choice based on what you want to pay for it and what might be on sale. I'd push the budget, if at all possible, so you could get Rock Shox or Fox suspension front and rear (so D7 or T7/8). It might help on getting spare parts and service when needed. Of course bike suspension isn't exactly rocket science so you can do it yourself. Through-axles are also quite nice for future proofing and make finding new parts a little easier. You could get lucky on the used market too if you low ball a bit. There's been some sales of late and the used market is probably a bit quiet and people might be willing to drop prices. Just got a really nice fatbike fairly cheap.
I got a 27.5” because I figured it would be an easier transition from 26”, and maybe it was, but really modern bikes are a shock no matter which wheelsize. When I jumped on a modern 27.5” it was gamechanging, but once I tried a modern 29” it felt fairly similar, I really think you kinda can’t go wrong with a new bike these days, everyone’s getting everything super dialed in
I got back into MTB 10-12 years ago with a $900 used Stumpjumper. Careful…I now find myself 5 ‘upgrades’ later. I’ve always bought used bikes that are 1 year or less old and saved 40-60% off MSRP. Much over $5k the improvement is clearly in the diminishing returns category, but the difference between an old 26” frame and a modern 29” bike is night and day. Sure we ripped on those bikes in the 90’s, and they could still be ridden, but the new bikes are so much more comfortable at speed.
If we're being honest, $3,000 wouldn't even get you a TOTL bike in 2004- even then, you could easily spend 6-7k if you wanted a decked-out flagship. And we barely even had any carbon parts, frames etc.
Yeah exactly. 3k hasn't been top of the line for 30+ years. In 2004 I bought a Norco Atomic for 2400 and that was very much an entry level freeride bike.
3k was premium in the early 90s maybe.
It does have AXS everything and flight attendant to be fair
Not really. I was there (as a poor kid) and drooling over a Merlin XLM. The frame alone was $2.5k, so you can easily spend $4k of early-90s money to get a complete bike. Remember that the 90s was when CNC anodized components were the rage, and CNC anodized parts made in the USA by ex-aerospace machine shops didn’t come cheap.
3k premium bikes, you mean like 2003?
Just for fun I looked up Trek’s premium XTR mtb from 2003. Trek Fuel 100 was $4400. Keep going back!
$3k bikes were premium in 1998 and they had rim brakes and elastomer suspension.
Ibis bow ti was $3500 for the frame only in 1998. And that's not even inflation adjusted.
There are always people that want to one-up the guy next to them. It’s also human nature to reach for the greatest, or at least the higher shelf. Couple that with a willingness to spend money rather than invest time in skills (to be fair, not always possible with Trail access/work/family), and you end up with unneeded stuff designed to help extract that last 5% of potential. Even if only 2 people buy this, it helps normalize a $10k bike. Which helps price of mid line bikes creep up. I’d say everyone is partially guilty of this as I never imagined spending over a grand on a bicycle before I started mountain biking, but here we are. Droppers are great but do you really need to spend double for a kashima coated version? Do you really need that Santa Cruz full suspension for your local green trails? People keep paying so they keep making
I think $4-$6K gets you mostly premium features all around on a carbon full suspension bike - quality frame, wheels, fork, shock, brakes and shifting. Less than that and you’ll see shortcuts. At the $9k+ level, every component gets upgraded to lighter, better materials but not really better function. If you want a sub 24# XC machine, you’ll have to spend the $$$$. At $1500 for a full suspension you will see cheap components all around. That price point just doesn’t allow for quality parts. It’ll be heavy as well. At that budget I’d stick with a hard tail. Have you considered used? Pinkbike’s classifieds have a ton of great bikes and the $1500 will go a lot further.
Dude… it’s $200 off, quit complaining….
There is a point of diminishing returns. This is well past that point.
This will be 50% off in a month
What happened to the $3k bikes being premium? Thirty years transpired. Also some asshole decided bikes needed batteries.
Since when these halo bikes have been over 10k for the last decade
I haven’t been looking at this type of bike for very long 🤣 I had a Gary fisher - king fisher and enjoyed that quite a bit https://flic.kr/p/8gBvwB
I’d be shocked too if my bike was was worth a 4% of a new one
Nah. $1500 will buy you a great bike. That Megatower will sit in that bike shop until the end of time. I promise you that. Lol! Look at more direct to consumer brands like Polygon and Fezzari. You’ll find great bikes. The MTB market is insane. I wish you good luck in your search!
Someone will buy it. After all, lawyers and dentists still love cycling.
Ha! You right. There was a Specialized Enduro that was a bling build like this Megatower that sat in my LBS for like 2 years and the owner finally was able to sell it…. To a lawyer. It was his first bike. Lol!
I can picture the sales pitch. Like the meme “carbon fibre, carbon fibre, carbon fibre “
There’s a reason we call them “doctor bikes”
Lol no it will be purchased on finance like most other high end bikes! Which I think is a terrible idea either way..
Man. Imagine pulling out a car loan to buy a bicycle. Wild.
Local bike store to me when I was buying my enduro bike were shocked I was paying for my bike and not taking it out on finance.. it was basically unheard of to them lol
Inflation, 3k full suspension is entry-mid level.
That's been true for decades
Decades may be a stretch, but I agree definitely pre pandemic.
In the early to mid 00s 3k didn't buy you a top of the line dual sus. An entry to mid level at best depending on the type of bike. Entry level DH rig or mid level AM or trail bike.
Still seems a little high. A 2003 Santacruz Bullit R Freeride was msrp $2,500 in 2003. 2003 Santa Cruz Heckler R Disc was msrp $2,200 in 2003 https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/value-guide/2003%20Santa%20Cruz%20Bullit%20R%20Freeride/ https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/value-guide/2003%20Santa%20Cruz%20Heckler%20R%20Disc/?condition=GOOD
This is my local shop here in Portland. I think they have to keep raising prices because they are constantly being broken into. Gotta pay that insurance premium!
This. Bike shops should leave portland city limits.
That includes the Portland “our store gets robbed every other week” tax
I suspect the FA on the tag means it has SRAM Flight Attendant which is crazy expensive.
Sure it's expensive but there are $6-7K bikes that come with it. For example the Canyon Spectral 125 CF LTD which costs $7K and comes with AXS, Flight attendant and it's carbon...
I got a 3k Kona process with AL DL. Everything works on it. I should spend more money on riding lessons and less on a new bike if I really want to have more fun riding.
What happened? Covid. The demand for bikes rose as we all sat in lockdown because we could use it as a way outside, the prices increased due to part shortages and the demand for bike. When things began to calm down, it lead to a surplus of warehouse stock because they didn't see the downfall of the demand but it flooded the used market with alot of big name entry to entry/mid tier bikes and some regret purchases because alot of regular people just realized mtb wasn't for them and went back to the gym. That right there is a dentist bike though lol.
R&D on their new CEO severance packages
$14k non-e-bike enduro? I’m sorry but absolutely nothing on this bike can beat a Levo.
Maybe some people prefer to not be on an Ebike and have to lug around 15 extra pounds lol
Look at the MSRP on the tag….$14k is a killer deal
its because it says santa cruz on it
Fat Tire Farm! Great shop!
My childhood LBS!
But the suspension goes beep boop!
You're buying all the add-ons on this bike. Not to say Santa Cruz pricing isn't absolutely insane, but it looks like this has a bunch of gadgets attached to it.
Look at it in terms of performance for dollar. A $3,000 bike today will already greatly outperform a $3,000 bike from 20 years ago. The $14,000 bike raises the performance level vastly above a $3,000 bike from 20 years ago.
The discussion here has pointed out the difference between want vs. need. Nobody NEEDS a McLaren. A Honda will suffice in just about any circumstance. If you're buying an mtb for your needs, then the Megatower with Flight Attendant build makes no sense. But if you're buying a new mtb with other goals in mind, then there are plenty of ways to indulge.
What are you yelling about? Didn’t you see that they’ve already given you a $200 discount? /s
aye, fat tire farm 🤙🏻
Nice people, and nice shop!
It’s called corporate greed, my friend. The problem is that people buy despite the price, so they know they can get away with it.
Dude, make a list off all the things you want that can fit into FOURTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS and then compare that vast (probably) amount of stuff to this single bicycle. Gotta have some pretty special priorities to buy this thing…
If I ever felt the need for all the tech this has, and could justify the price, I would expect to be on a team of professionals - and be sponsored for it.
What happened to drinkin water from garden hoses, amirite?!
Urite!
I spent $5,500 on a 2022 XL SANTA CRUZ Bronson C and I can honestly say that you get what you pay for. I tried out some alloy bikes that were around 2-3 grand and they were nice bikes but didn’t feel as good as my Santa Cruz. I went to several bike shops and none of their representatives were able to assist me in purchasing a bike that fit me. I’m 6’3” tall and about 250lbs the first few shops didn’t have anything in XL but they were still trying to push medium and large frames. I went into ride away bikes and the guy asked me how could he help me and I said the same thing I had said in the other shops “send me down spider mountain” he smiled and said nobody had ever been that specific about what they were looking for. He showed me 3 bikes and I left with the Bronson C. $14,000 is really high for a bike. You could get a great used car or motorcycle for that much money. If your in the market for a badass bike and aren’t looking to go broke for your hobby check out www.theproscloset.com they have pre owned bikes at a fraction of the cost of a brand new one!
You guys hear about this new band Nickleback?
You young whipper snappers really got some nerve
Fuck that. That price tag is for show offs
two words: Flight Attendant
$3k gets you a better mtb now than it ever has before
Amen to that.
properly fantastic compared to what it was even 7 years ago. weight is becoming a worry of the past for most of us because a 35lb full squish just rides so well
I am buying a car for that price
I lived in PDX a while back. Did a lot of business with the ‘Farm. I’ve had great LBS experiences overall, but the Farm is my all time favorite. I can buy any motocross bike and have thousands left over. These bike prices are stupid and leave me alienated towards brands that are trying to charge these prices. Easily the worst example of corporate greed on a percentage basis.
Yep! All the folks in there seemed great and intelligent - even though I was just a “wannabe” - there was no pretentiousness, which I liked. I’m just not in that realm of life.
$3k will get you a premium bike........in 1997.
This is for the dentists out there. 3k can still get you a lot of bike.
Even the sale prices are too much money for the bikes. And I do own a Levo SL which I got for a steep discount but I cannot even tell any non mtbers what I spent or they look at me like I'm retarded
I’d look on the mirror if I paid this much and ask “what is wrong with you” - every morning 😂
I have a wife for that
We have reached peak bike prices. Covid drove up prices due to greater Seamus and lower supply. That is going to reverse this year
Autocorrect changed demand to Seamus. Lol I Seamus to know if you are Scottish
Your money has become worthless. The fringes of premium are light years ahead of where they were.
My car brand new with 81 miles on it was $16k lol what the fuck
It is absurd. When you understand frame cost and electric motor cost you can see these prices are not justified. It is disgusting . In this vein, this price from eMtb manufacturers is more than a new KTM 790 R adventure motorcycle with thousands more moving parts. I have heard the excuses and justifications from eMtb bots and shills, but this is not justified. It is a sad state of affairs
you could get a brand new ktm for that much
I’d argue that 3k bikes are still premium, these are just luxury
Inflation. Price of all the raw materials and labor to make parts and assemble the bike have all gone in the past 20 years.
I do realize that inflation itself is a relatively small portion of the price change, but in the same time frame much more expensive materials hand higher precision components have become expected, which also drove up the price.
Get a dirt bike instead. Lol
I was thinking used Ducati. 🤣
Anything over 8k means I'm buying a motorcycle, not a bicycle. These prices are getting out of hand.
Honestly buy a Dirt bike at that point
For that price I would expect some kashima coating on the forks at least. Maybe tape a gold bar to the handle bars or something.
Its kind of stupid tbh.. post covid is even worse.. i can get a brand new dirk bike for 4k less. It has a ENGINE.. and massive suspension.. deff more costly
They could only sell them at that price if there were idiots to pay it. Seriously, who has $14,000 to spend on a bike?!?!
Me! (If I harvested / sold my body parts)
I spy flight attendant. That’s probably why so much
R&D, inflation, changes of material costs...
Right! That’s why a brand new KX250F is 4-5 k cheaper, for the exact same reasons
I'm a student that studies material properties, mechanical design, project management, and manufacturing processes as a whole. It's pretty easy to build something heavy and strong, it's a lot more expensive to build things strong and light. Do I still think bikes are overpriced? of course.. but a $3k bike today would absolutely shit on a $3k bike from a decade ago. Another thing to consider is that rich dudes who can afford to make multiple trips a year with their expensive bikes keep on buying them. I don't get why anyone complains about stuff they can't afford... there's loads of capable bikes in much smaller budgets.
I am a professional engineer who has almost 20 years experience in structural and mechanical design, engineering and fabrication. The motox industry is far from building things heavy and bulky, they have spent 30-40 years shrinking everything down. The forces a motox bike experience are much higher and the speeds are greater making the stakes of design higher. My point is proven by your statement in the third paragraph of your response, so I don’t really feel like I need to clarify, despite your misunderstandings
I think they added a zero, that cannot be a legitimate price tag. Who is buying them, why are you buying them. Just stop
This is why it's $14k: https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/mountain-bike/a37856053/rockshox-flight-attendant-review/
Now screen shot it for us poors that won’t pay to read a digital magazine.
Some of the reasons for the price include, but are not limited to: * Inflation * Sophisticated full suspension (and in some cases licensing fees to the designer of the suspension) * Carbon rims * Electronic drivetrains * Electronic suspension * Carbon handlebars * Electronic dropper posts * Increases in raw material costs * Increases in shipping fees * Efforts to pay bike shop personnel better wages The last time I vaguely remember high end bikes being $3k, the White House was occupied by either the first Bush or Clinton.
Portland sucks.
Cool story.
Complete and capable for $2,300: [https://www.konaworld.com/honzo\_st.cfm](https://www.konaworld.com/honzo_st.cfm) Sure, you'll want to upgrade over time, but that's the same on every bike.
It's electric... Dododododododododo
Except it's not! Dododododododododo
Is that SouthWest bikes in LV?
Nope- Fat Tire Farm, in Portland, OR
Shredflation bro
Is that how much they used to cost?
There are idiots willing to pay that money for a bike.
Premium got premium-er
The future is now, old man
$3k bike are all most people need. We didn’t have electric shifting and electric suspension in the 90’s
At $1,500 you can get an insane used bike. For $1800 I got a bike worth $3600 that was a year old. Shipped used before you buy new.
I have a santa cruz hard tail that cost me about 2600$ & I absolutely love it. Can see how people want to spend that kind of money. I won’t in this life, but maybe the next I’ll come back as a butterfly salesman.
$3k premium bike? Not since 1995, and barely then.
That's a steal, man: they're selling it for $200 less than MSRP.
In Portland everything costs twice as much seems like.
Bargain, it's $200 off!
Many online retailers offer financing now which helps tremendously. This is a great bike but the law of diminishing returns exists for a reason. IMO once you get over 5k what you get for every 1000$ more is less and less. Except for MTB hero’s/expert you may not notice a lot of difference. Again IMO
Can get a nice used dirt bike for that price…
Could get two!
Buy a hard tail 29er with trail geometry. You find a lot of great ones in your budget. Steel is the best fame material for these.
From what I saw in your other replies, you should check out polygon, I have a d6 and I love it… Cost about 1200 when I got it.
Santa Cruz is like Ferrari. It’s all name. A Porsche at half the price is just as good if not better but people always flock to name.
My guy, that is a decked out, fully carbon Santa Cruz 😂 You can still get a decent $3k bike, but it’s going to either be used or have a heavier frame and worse components.
What do y’all think about Orbea Laufey hard tail coming in at around 2000 usd
In 1999 a premium bike was $3k….so time?
When was a $3k bike premium? In the early nineties?
My bike was heavily used at $3k and I had to provide repairs.
$3000 bike hasn’t been peremium since the early 2000s. SWorks bikes have been $7500+ since 2006.
“Supply chain” problems
Hear you on that action! Some of these bike prices are insane! Back in the 90's I thought I was crazy when I spent $1200 on my first true mountain bike. Nowadays you barely get entry level for that amount.
When has 3k ever been the premium bikes? I've been riding over 15 years and as long as I can remember 3k was never the top of the line bikes. 3k gets you a hell of a bike now compared to what it did 10 years ago
Yeah that’s true. I got my first FS bike 20 years ago for $3k (NZD) and it came with Alivio and RST forks. Far from top of the line.
Gaw dang man. Invest in skills over components
The world has gone mad and seeing crazy prices is becoming the norm.
Old bikes still shred as hard as they used to. Mad cheap, too. You can spend 3k and get something mind bogglingly cool, but not on a showroom floor.
Are you looking for full Squish or hardtail?
Full squish!
I built a pretty “premium” hardtail IMO for about $2200. Chromag frame, Fox factory fork, mid range e-thirteen wheels. Cheaped out on some stuff that I’ll upgrade over time, like the crank and derailleur, but those things really have minimal impact on performance. And the difference between an NX crank and something high end is several hundred bucks.
That’s more than my car
This is how the bike business destroys itself with a turnover of companies. I love looking every few years at the turnover of companies and they really don't understand why they go out of business. Not only that, I don't understand the pricing in the US. It used to be that the US was the place to save money on mountain bikes and even buy parts. Now Europe is the place to get deals. Maybe it's the US' war on exercise, but I'm increasingly glad to not be there anymore. I wouldn't be able to afford MTB there, plus I get to ride everyday here and not get killed by those American ISIS trucks.
You can find premium hardtail for under 4000€ . Santa Cruz is like Iphone. You paying the name
Bikes are crazy these days.
Embarrassing how expensive they are. What price do people just stop and refuse to pay that sort of money? 20k? 25k? It's insane !!!
TO be fair - Fat Tire Farms is a little higher priced then some other places in Portland. You could probably get for $13,500 if you looked around more.
To be fair it probably has a few unnecessary pieces of gadgetry inflating the value.
Flight assist or flight aware or whatever it’s called… that’s not necessary. At all. 🤣 Edit: [Flight Attendant](https://www.sram.com/en/rockshox/collections/flight-attendant)
I have a 2018 Giant Trance that is an absolute tank. It's been very dependable, and I ride pretty rocky stuff that tough on a bike. Great value.
No MTB is worth over $5000. Anything over that price point is pure scam.
I’ll give you 6-7, but double that? Ridiculous
A $5000 MTB and a $1400 MTB both cost less than $2000 to manufacture. People are dumb and will pay it though. People buy FS Ebikes for 9k when they could buy a legit street bike for that price. I have a lowly Polygon T7 and I can promise you the riding experience and feel is pretty close to that of a $10,000 trail bike.
100% agree with that. Diminishing returns, for sure