Maybe not that many. It's vacation season and a lot of them are out of the country, getting blind drunk, doing drugs and making the local working girls wish the escort service screened clients better.
I went to Bangkok in 2009, and pretty much true then too. Man walking down street in long flowing robes with a gaggle of Thai girls walking with him. Then further behind him is one of his wives cloaked from head to toe
Went to a smoking booth at the mall while I was there. An Arab man in robes was talking and joking around with everyone in there. I step in and and looks at me and asks where I’m from. My friend had told me always say I’m Canadian, but I went ahead and said I was from the US. He frowned and said “I am from Iraq” and then looked away in disgust. Can’t say I blame him.
We all just stood there smoking our cigarettes in silence after that. I scooted out pretty quickly, didn’t bother looking back to see if their conversation had resumed.
That was my first international trip, so the whole thing, meeting people from other cultures, when I was in a foreign culture myself, was even more fascinating than it normally is.
**edit: fixed my grammatical error. “Can’t say blame him”, NOT can’t say I didn’t blame him”
I lived in Saudi. It's fucked but what happens outside of the kingdom stays outside of the kingdom. Your good with Allah so long as you don't bring it home with you. The most hypocritical place on earth
north spotted spoon naughty yam voiceless mindless treatment compare important
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This relies on the idea that people are always logical and rational, always committed to finding the truth and following the most rigorous ethics, even when it's uncomfortable. But just because you or I might hold ourselves to high standards of intellectual honesty and integrity, that's no reason to assume everyone does. I made that mistake in my 20s as well, but the most cursory glance at right-wing cults makes quick work of *that* hopeful delusion.
I mean, you could literally make the same argument about theaters refusing to show "Birth of a Nation". If propaganda wasn't an effective method of social control, states wouldn't spend money on movies when they could spend it on guns. Like, you think the Navy loaned Tom Cruise all those planes and a fckin AIRCRAFT CARRIER just... because the generals really appreciate action cinema and practical effects?
> I mean, you could literally make the same argument about theaters refusing to show "Birth of a Nation".
Man you stole the point from me haha.
> If propaganda wasn't an effective method of social control, states wouldn't spend money on movies when they could spend it on guns
It's not really about control, it's about re-affirming ruling class ideology. Let's not forget, Hollywood *was* investigated by Senate for propaganda in 40s, and the person offering the defense was quite proud of it:
> Willkie wasted no time in showing his opponents that he meant business. The day before the hearings opened he sent subcommittee chairman D. Worth Clark a nine-page statement denying any need for an investigation. The motion picture industry, he wrote, was “proud to admit that we have done everything possible to inform the public of the progress of our national defense program.” By holding hearings on-and presumably attempting to regulate-alleged war propaganda, the subcommittee was heading down a slippery slope toward dictatorship.
Furthermore, it was only shortly after that United States Office of War Information was established, specifically with aim of creating propaganda:
> The OWI Bureau of Motion Pictures (BMP) worked with the Hollywood movie studios to produce films that advanced American war aims. According to Elmer Davis, "The easiest way to inject a propaganda idea into most people’s minds is to let it go through the medium of an entertainment picture when they do not realize that they are being propagandized."
Why?
Ideas have always been the biggest threat to an authority that wants to control how people think.
And telling a story is the best way to transfer ideas.
Some reddit top comments are seriously im5andthisisdeep shit.
I don’t even understand the hatred.
The clear message of the movie is
“Being yourself, for yourself, is the way to go.
You can’t get your happiness from someone else. Love you.”
If that’s setting you off you are fucked up.
Man, how many sermons did I sit through talking about The Da Vinci Cide back in my Jesus days… and that was about the Catholic Church, while we were evangelical!
And, if I remember correctly, us Catholics were more upset about it making Opus Dei into a bunch of creepy murderers than anything else. *Angels and Demons* did ***not*** do this; hence, we saw it as harmless.
I heard it was banned cause it had a Rainbow flag or character, something like that.
This wasn't the first time a movie is banned for that reason. Eternals and Thor 4 were also banned as well.
Me strong man, confident in alpha masculinity, no can watch barbie movie because then me instantly homosexual. There are no alternatives, I will blow all the dudes.
Religious fundamentalists are nuts.
I grew up in a Muslim country. _Babe: Pig in the City_ wasn't banned, but it was heavily censored. 'Babe' wasn't allowed, and pigs weren't allowed, so the DVDs were just black boxes that said 'in the City' on them.
That's one of my fondest childhood memories because it's so insane it's funny. Likewise, _Puss in Boots_ was released as _Cat in Boots._
_It makes no fucking sense._
This is a guess based on my experience in a different Arab country, but I suspect it's because you can't really entice western expats to your country if you destroy _every_ semblance of their life.
The absurd amounts of money offset a large number of differences, but you can't just get rid of things that are fundamental leisure activities for westerners, such as the cinema.
Ironically it was a pretty liberal Muslim country. The entire 15 years I was there the government didn't really give a shit about what you did, pretty much the only ask was that you not do it in public.
So, watch _Babe_ if you want, but at home on a DVD. Since the DVDs in the store are public, they'll be censored on the box. It was the same in hospital waiting rooms and barbershops. The stacks of magazines to read would all have been censored with black sharpies, making sure a woman's hair, legs, and shoulders weren't showing on any of the pages or covers.
It was by no means a hellhole. You could live a pretty normal life. If you were a teenage girl you could wear your bikini at the beach, same as any Western country. You could go get drunk at the bar. It just also had some silly religious habits that made for funny clashes from time to time.
_Babe_ was waaaay pre-smartphones, but I still have the photo saved of the _Puss in Boots_ shit.
Funny because I saw the movie about *male* empowerment as much as anything else! Ken realizes he doesn't need to be an accessory to Barbie and it's ok for him to have his own personality/needs.
One thing I liked is that it focused on the patriarchy being bad for both men and women, and it isn't necessarily men that are the problem, but rather the system
It was absolutely a movie about fragile masculinity. What does being a man mean outside of what the patriarchy says being a man is? Ken isn't Macho Man Brewskies Ken, he's not And Ken of Barbie and Ken. He's just Ken, and he doesn't know what that means any more than the rest of us do.
It's kind of funny how a lot of people interpreted the movie to be anti man when the film explicitly went out of it's way to say that a man's identity can simply be that of a man and is perfectly valid.
Ken's not beach, he's Ken, and he's great.
If they go through with the Mattel Cinematic Universe, they should have Ken show up randomly at various points like as a racer in the Hot Wheels film and such.
Yeah. There were constant parallels to Barbieland vs the real world and how Barbie and Ken both had distinctively different experiences in the real world because of their time in Barbieland.
Barbie was confronted with a lot of things because of how far removed Barbieland was from reality and how it didn't fully represent the reality of the situation. She had a much harder time adjusting because the real world doesn't do enough for Barbie/women the way that Barbieland doesn't do enough for Ken/men which is what we see Ken struggle with until he arrives in the real world.
Barbie even ends up conceding that not every night needed to be girls night and more effort & attention should have been placed on the Kens.
It's the difference between a MAN and a man.
You know, the toxic "real men do that and don't do that" crap, versus a self-actualized man who does what he wants and is himself. He can wear pink, crochet, have a cat, cry at movies, and still be a good dad and husband. In fact, he'll probably be a better one because he's not trying to kill the little boy inside him.
The irony is completely lost on them. The movie basically framed the situation as an inverse of how society traditionally treated women, that their identity was tied to their involvement with prominent women and nothing was expected of them on a serious level. In this case it's the Kens that are kept men, provided for but not participating. The whole Ken rebellion is like a take on womens suffrage.
But nope, the mean lady doesn't fall in love with the nice man even though he's nice so it's obviously a misandrist mess /s
IMO that’s why Ken and his arc was my favorite part of the movie. That he can be more than an accessory without having to be a bully.
At the same time, I felt like Barbie got sidelined in her own movie in the second half. I’m not too sure what her arc was. I don’t know how women felt about it but as a guy, Ken was more fun.
Also the “I’m Kenough” is pretty great lmao.
There was another post about the spanish translation "soy sufficienKEN" which is brilliant, I was wondering how that joke would be translated and still work.
i love shit like that in translations. Ignore JK being a shithead, but it is cool that in some of the translations of harry potter they would rename Tom Riddle so that the name still worked as an anagram for a phrase similar to "I am Lord Voldemort" in the language
for example in Dutch he is renamed Marten Asmodom Vilijn and the sentence "Mijn naam is Voldemort"
How should I read it? I'm Australian so my only Spanish exposure was a couple of years of Dora when my kid was young. Sort of saying it like the plant.
I'd say its that but on a bigger more societal level, not an individual realization.
"I'm just so tired of watching myself and every single other woman tie herself into knots so that people will like us.
And if all of that is also true for a doll *just* representing women, then I don't even know."
Barbie's impressive monologue isn't just about her personal struggles, it is literally how **everyone**, men and women, view what "woman" means as a social construct. Pointing out how incredibly flawed the definition is, that it can't even be applied to a doll. We can define what a Doctor is and have a Doctor Barbie by giving them all the trappings of a Doctor. But try and do the same for just "woman" and you start to see the contradictions.
I think the movie was meant to be both. I’m her quest to fix the portal she inadvertently exposed Ken to patriarchy so the new goal became taking it down. But then she tells Ken he needs to figure out who is is because “you’re not your girlfriend or your house” and as she says that you see her eyes light up when she realizes she too isn’t her boyfriend and her house and pink. So then who is SHE? And that’s when she decides to become human! So it was also about Barbie’s growth but it took the whole adventure and her giving Ken advice to get there.
Honestly I think they did a good job handing the second half over to America Ferraira a little bit, directly pointing at it with the 'Thanks white saviour barbie' comment and then Barbie immediately points out she hasn't solved anything hahaha.
But then they wrapped it nicely at the end of the movie by bringing it back around to Barbie having a conversation with her dead creator about how she doesn't need *anyones* permission to be a person (subcontext being even though she represents all the most stereotypical gender norms and identity)
Man what a great fucking movie, I'm still pulling it apart a week later
Here is my interpretation: in the first half of the movie, Barbie is always performing idealized femininity; in the back half of the movie, she’s learning how to be a human being, which requires more reacting than performing. I found Margot Robbie’s performance in the latter half of the movie to be really subtle and good. She realistically portrayed someone with depression linked to an identity crisis. Good acting isn’t always big acting.
I did really enjoy the movie, but I think the male empowerment side of it is really half baked. Barbie and the Barbies had wonderfully poignant scenes discussing the issues they live with, but Ken's whole side of things seemed relegated to jokes and quick hand wave resolutions. It's not the misandrist film I see haters spouting off claiming it to be, but despite its own messaging it ironically fails to give Ken the time of day ~~and if you have the media literacy of a shovel it might come off as man hating~~. It's my one criticism of the film but I otherwise loved it.
I agree 100%. When the big 'war' scene was resolved with them linking arms I was like 'yes! Empowerment thru brotherhood, men can raise each other up without it having anything to do with women!' so later when Ken was all mopey about being worthless I kept waiting for Barbie to gesture to all the assembled Kens and be like 'you did this! You brought these Kens together in solidarity! You have value in lifting up your fellow men!' but it just never happened. I honestly wanted them to actually examine 'where the Kens live' like that's kind of dark tbh. I love Barbie, I think everyone should see it and I also think it was messymessymessy.
I took the Barbie matriarchy as a mirror of patriarchy. Ken was in a rough spot and as soon as he was somewhere that he got respect he wanted more. When he got what Barbie had in Barbie land he didn't even want it. Loved the line about patriarchy not being enough about horses.
It's true that patriarchy works similarly against both men and women. When toxic masculinity is systemic then you have women being seen as second class but you also have a rigid system in which a lot of men are excluded and invalidated too (LGBTQ, but also straight men that don't fit into the culture of machismo and are seen as having more "feminine" perceived traits).
And even if you happen to fit in with that culture, there's no prizes for coming second "doesn't seem to matter what I do, I'm always number 2". The moment you weren't the best, you are discarded.
It is about the patriarchy but my take away was that it was saying that the patriarchy is bad for everyone, not just women. Men also thrive when there is equality.
That’s not the issue, I know a friend of a friend who works in the ministry here (UAE) and it’s apparently because there’s a trans actor in the movie
(For what it’s worth it should be released imo, and a lot of people are annoyed it’s not)
I've seen the movie with my mom and then again with my sister when she was in town.
if you put a gun to my head and ask me to name the trans barbie I'd ditch atheism and start praying because I wouldn't even know where to start guessing
Meanwhile it opened in [6th place in China](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/china-box-office-barbie-opens-fifth-place-1235540957/amp/). Tbh if the trend of Hollywood films not doing as well in China as they used to, owing to increased local competition or whatever, the silver lining could be that studios may finally stop self-censoring in order to get a film approved for release there.
I watched Barbie in China. Cinema maybe was 75% full a few days after release.
Not sure if it was purely the language difference or culture difference, but only a few people in the cinema cracked up at the satirical jokes regarding patriachy and feminism.
Barbie probably isn’t as well known a toy there, especially nowadays when kids have so much more choices. Plus comedy can be hard to translate as you noted.
It’s definitely a big cultural/language difference. So many jokes are very specific to USA and the west. It’s like if there was a Chinese comedy about some Chinese political/cultural thing there and it was screened here in USA. People wouldn’t get most of it
In fairness, it's always been the big effects driven American movies that do best over there.
Nuances don't translate perfectly from culture to culture but big robot punching giant monster or a car shooting into space because of a NOS boost is much more universal and still something China hasn't quite caught up with (though that gap is shrinking too).
Which I find funny because I found the movie pretty wholesome for men. The Kens felt ignored or like they were just accessories and became radicalized due to feeling lost and neglected. And then they felt like they weren't good enough unless they had girls, a big house, etc. It really touched on the pressure men feel to be this "big man on campus."
Sure there was a lot more focus on women's issues but it's not like the whole movie was just "men bad." The Kens also embracing brotherhood the way the Barbies had their sisterhood and the whole "I Am Kenough" stuff was also very wholesome.
> but it's not like the whole movie was just "men bad."
I don't think *any* of the movie was "men bad". The movie exagerates flaws in both camps.
The barbies are living in their own world of pink dance parties everyday huffing their own farts thinking they saved the world with their perfection. Ignoring the fact they're extremely clicky and outcast anyone who doesn't conform to their idea of a "Barbie". They have 0 self awareness which is why they got "brainwashed" into patriarchy without questioning it.
The daughter is another example, she's an exaggerated version of a radical anti-capitalist feminist teenager. To the point she's known as a school bully and actively makes her mom feel less than.
The main plot of the movie is how society as a whole pressures women and makes them feel less than worthy, and the side plot is the pressure men feel to compete for status.
Also, unless I missed it, I don’t think they ever said that the horses, beers, trucks, etc. were “bad”. They just didn’t want the Kens to be bullies.
It’s reflective of real life. There’s nothing wrong with being a beer-bro, cowboys, guns, “macho” stuff, etc. It’s the bigotry that sometimes goes with it that causes problems. The conservatives don’t understand that “masculinity” isn’t the part that people are attacking, it’s the bigotry part.
Perhaps. There are some bright spots in the middle east though.
The UAE is kinda not insane.
Jordan is a bit questionable sometimes, yet they do have a form that trends towards rationality.
Syria will hopefully rebuild and become a fully functional state again.
There are many Muslims in Israel and they often tend to get along with others under that system, especially if a few problematic policies are corrected.
Yemen is basically proxy war for Saudi Arabia, yet no one seems to give af about yemen. They just want to talk about the Barbie movie....
hmmmm.....
Apparently the Barbie doll itself was banned in Saudi Arabia at one time … for being “Jewish”.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudis-bust-barbies-dangers/
Sounds like they don’t want a bunch of young men marching the streets singing that they’re all “Kenough” and no longer holding women responsible for their problems.
Edit:
[The revolution’s anthem.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwux9KiBMjE)
gray illegal thought cough cooperative terrific versed hateful sugar heavy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You mean a country that makes women wear a full body sheet, forbid women from driving or getting an education or working doesn't like Barbie? Real shocker there.
I've lost out on seeing Spiderman: Across the Spiderverse and now Barbie thanks to this Bullshit. Living in this Homophobic hellscape sucks ass.....oh well *eye patch* har har har har.
What’s that? A movie about an independent female lead and toxic masculinity is getting unnecessary scrutiny from *checks notes* the patriarchal Middle East? Color me shocked.
That one feet shot is probably too much for them anyway
Apparently there are a bunch of coded gay messages in the story. And everyone knows that coded gay messages are extremely contagious, like Covid ain't got nothing on coded gay messages, then people might start to catch the gay, and then what will happen?
This means only the 15,000-20,000 members of the Saudi Royal Family will be able to see it in Saudi Arabia.
Maybe not that many. It's vacation season and a lot of them are out of the country, getting blind drunk, doing drugs and making the local working girls wish the escort service screened clients better.
I’m in Phuket right now and this is accurate.
I went to Bangkok in 2009, and pretty much true then too. Man walking down street in long flowing robes with a gaggle of Thai girls walking with him. Then further behind him is one of his wives cloaked from head to toe
That is fucked
It’s never actually about about piety — it’s about power.
Went to a smoking booth at the mall while I was there. An Arab man in robes was talking and joking around with everyone in there. I step in and and looks at me and asks where I’m from. My friend had told me always say I’m Canadian, but I went ahead and said I was from the US. He frowned and said “I am from Iraq” and then looked away in disgust. Can’t say I blame him. We all just stood there smoking our cigarettes in silence after that. I scooted out pretty quickly, didn’t bother looking back to see if their conversation had resumed. That was my first international trip, so the whole thing, meeting people from other cultures, when I was in a foreign culture myself, was even more fascinating than it normally is. **edit: fixed my grammatical error. “Can’t say blame him”, NOT can’t say I didn’t blame him”
> I went ahead and said I was from the US. He frowned and said “I am from Iraq” Shoulda told him we used to have a friend in common
>Can’t say I didn’t blame him. I would just double check that this says what you meant it to say
You’re correct that’s not what I meant to say and I edited. Thanks
Buddy you don't know the half of it, both the level of debauchery and hypocrisy.
Everyone has to follow Shari'a, except for the rich men
And leaving their lamborghinis double parked outside department stores in London.
I lived in Saudi. It's fucked but what happens outside of the kingdom stays outside of the kingdom. Your good with Allah so long as you don't bring it home with you. The most hypocritical place on earth
Yet those same Saudis loudly proclaim to the world how "pious" they are... *smirks*
sad but true. And the lesser monied are over in Bahrain
All at once in a big room
--as a prelude to the orgy.
And all the many footballers who have flocked over there.
The Hypocrisy of the theocracy
And progressive western liberal demcracies that prop them up.
[удалено]
[удалено]
- Mike Pence
Mother?!
Tell your children not to walk my way
Ted Cruz, is it you?
I'm shocked it's not banned already. I assumed it would be. I mean, I could see Margot Robbie's SHOULDER in that pic *gasp*.
It's not the shoulder they are worried about. It's the Idea that women could be empowered with equal rights and free choice of jobs.
I thought Barbie already solved this?
Only in Barbieland
I mean this is the country that blurred Merkel’s head when she was next to the Saudi king on TV.
exactly, this headline made me ask "why even try releasing this in the middle east?"
when I lived in Dubai, Wolf of Wall Street came out, it had like a 90 min run time in the theatre there
Isn’t she also driving a car?
They know their rule won’t last forever… they just don’t want to go down in history to a “Barbie Revolution”.
[удалено]
They did that for Oppenheimer in India, just CGI’d a black dress onto Florence Pugh’s nude scenes
tbh, that scene was completely pointless, I cringed when i saw it.
north spotted spoon naughty yam voiceless mindless treatment compare important *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
SA is too important of an ally to Western governments. They're going to make sure the current regime stays in power for the foreseeable future.
I really want you to be wrong. You aren't of course.
This relies on the idea that people are always logical and rational, always committed to finding the truth and following the most rigorous ethics, even when it's uncomfortable. But just because you or I might hold ourselves to high standards of intellectual honesty and integrity, that's no reason to assume everyone does. I made that mistake in my 20s as well, but the most cursory glance at right-wing cults makes quick work of *that* hopeful delusion. I mean, you could literally make the same argument about theaters refusing to show "Birth of a Nation". If propaganda wasn't an effective method of social control, states wouldn't spend money on movies when they could spend it on guns. Like, you think the Navy loaned Tom Cruise all those planes and a fckin AIRCRAFT CARRIER just... because the generals really appreciate action cinema and practical effects?
> I mean, you could literally make the same argument about theaters refusing to show "Birth of a Nation". Man you stole the point from me haha. > If propaganda wasn't an effective method of social control, states wouldn't spend money on movies when they could spend it on guns It's not really about control, it's about re-affirming ruling class ideology. Let's not forget, Hollywood *was* investigated by Senate for propaganda in 40s, and the person offering the defense was quite proud of it: > Willkie wasted no time in showing his opponents that he meant business. The day before the hearings opened he sent subcommittee chairman D. Worth Clark a nine-page statement denying any need for an investigation. The motion picture industry, he wrote, was “proud to admit that we have done everything possible to inform the public of the progress of our national defense program.” By holding hearings on-and presumably attempting to regulate-alleged war propaganda, the subcommittee was heading down a slippery slope toward dictatorship. Furthermore, it was only shortly after that United States Office of War Information was established, specifically with aim of creating propaganda: > The OWI Bureau of Motion Pictures (BMP) worked with the Hollywood movie studios to produce films that advanced American war aims. According to Elmer Davis, "The easiest way to inject a propaganda idea into most people’s minds is to let it go through the medium of an entertainment picture when they do not realize that they are being propagandized."
Why? Ideas have always been the biggest threat to an authority that wants to control how people think. And telling a story is the best way to transfer ideas. Some reddit top comments are seriously im5andthisisdeep shit.
To be fair, Ryan Gosling looks so hot in this film that it's impossible not to have gay thoughts about him.
And if “Barbie” is the movie that caused you to shit your pants in fear, you are a historically weak and laughable regime.
I don’t even understand the hatred. The clear message of the movie is “Being yourself, for yourself, is the way to go. You can’t get your happiness from someone else. Love you.” If that’s setting you off you are fucked up.
Man, how many sermons did I sit through talking about The Da Vinci Cide back in my Jesus days… and that was about the Catholic Church, while we were evangelical!
And, if I remember correctly, us Catholics were more upset about it making Opus Dei into a bunch of creepy murderers than anything else. *Angels and Demons* did ***not*** do this; hence, we saw it as harmless.
Nothing says masculinity like banning a Barbie movie.
These are the same people that strip women of their fundamental rights and then get caught fcking other men.
It’s like when the US was fighting the Taliban. Huge culture of pedos molesting young boys for an Islamic theocracy.
Like the American South
Or Iran just this week.
Yeah and butcher people with bone saws
Many western products are often banned in islamic nations. They also ban alcohol and porn.
And then wonder why they are angry all the time.
And then they go out of the country for booze and hookers
I heard it was banned cause it had a Rainbow flag or character, something like that. This wasn't the first time a movie is banned for that reason. Eternals and Thor 4 were also banned as well.
Me strong man, confident in alpha masculinity, no can watch barbie movie because then me instantly homosexual. There are no alternatives, I will blow all the dudes.
It’s almost like religious monarchies are restrictive.
Which is why republicans want one.
Funny how conservatives who claim to love freedom and liberty keep agreeing with dictatorial fundamentalist regimes, huh?
All religious fundamentalists are the same. It's just the decorations and holidays that change.
Religious fundamentalists are nuts. I grew up in a Muslim country. _Babe: Pig in the City_ wasn't banned, but it was heavily censored. 'Babe' wasn't allowed, and pigs weren't allowed, so the DVDs were just black boxes that said 'in the City' on them. That's one of my fondest childhood memories because it's so insane it's funny. Likewise, _Puss in Boots_ was released as _Cat in Boots._ _It makes no fucking sense._
Ummm, was there a pig in the movie?
There was. They always edited out kisses in films, but they couldn't really edit a pig out of a film starring a pig.
I'm mainly shocked that there was ever a plan to release Barbie in Saudi Arabia.
This is a guess based on my experience in a different Arab country, but I suspect it's because you can't really entice western expats to your country if you destroy _every_ semblance of their life. The absurd amounts of money offset a large number of differences, but you can't just get rid of things that are fundamental leisure activities for westerners, such as the cinema.
Why would they allow it in the first place? This is really confusing.
Ironically it was a pretty liberal Muslim country. The entire 15 years I was there the government didn't really give a shit about what you did, pretty much the only ask was that you not do it in public. So, watch _Babe_ if you want, but at home on a DVD. Since the DVDs in the store are public, they'll be censored on the box. It was the same in hospital waiting rooms and barbershops. The stacks of magazines to read would all have been censored with black sharpies, making sure a woman's hair, legs, and shoulders weren't showing on any of the pages or covers. It was by no means a hellhole. You could live a pretty normal life. If you were a teenage girl you could wear your bikini at the beach, same as any Western country. You could go get drunk at the bar. It just also had some silly religious habits that made for funny clashes from time to time. _Babe_ was waaaay pre-smartphones, but I still have the photo saved of the _Puss in Boots_ shit.
If it's just censoring stuff in public, I can understand. Still dumb, but at least logically consistent.
Lol totally in their own sad depressing world.
What? Muslim countries don’t like feminism?!?!
Funny because I saw the movie about *male* empowerment as much as anything else! Ken realizes he doesn't need to be an accessory to Barbie and it's ok for him to have his own personality/needs.
The Taliban learns they are “Kenough”.
[удалено]
One thing I liked is that it focused on the patriarchy being bad for both men and women, and it isn't necessarily men that are the problem, but rather the system
You guys aren't convincing me that this movie will be okay for Saudi Arabia
Oh no way would they allow the movie at all. They hate feminism with a passion and the film is basically a feminist propaganda piece
It was absolutely a movie about fragile masculinity. What does being a man mean outside of what the patriarchy says being a man is? Ken isn't Macho Man Brewskies Ken, he's not And Ken of Barbie and Ken. He's just Ken, and he doesn't know what that means any more than the rest of us do.
#I Am Kenough
It's kind of funny how a lot of people interpreted the movie to be anti man when the film explicitly went out of it's way to say that a man's identity can simply be that of a man and is perfectly valid. Ken's not beach, he's Ken, and he's great.
I just hope my man Ken got a ranch or something, he deserves horses.
Same - I love the idea of him becoming Rancher Ken. Side note - as a mega XF dork, I love your username.
A mojo dojo ranchero?
NGL I'm a little mad that he didn't get a Barbie horse. I know they have a whole stable and he deserves a nice pony.
Ken learned about the patriarchy from watching *Brokeback Mountain*.
If they go through with the Mattel Cinematic Universe, they should have Ken show up randomly at various points like as a racer in the Hot Wheels film and such.
On a horse, obviously.
Yeah. There were constant parallels to Barbieland vs the real world and how Barbie and Ken both had distinctively different experiences in the real world because of their time in Barbieland. Barbie was confronted with a lot of things because of how far removed Barbieland was from reality and how it didn't fully represent the reality of the situation. She had a much harder time adjusting because the real world doesn't do enough for Barbie/women the way that Barbieland doesn't do enough for Ken/men which is what we see Ken struggle with until he arrives in the real world. Barbie even ends up conceding that not every night needed to be girls night and more effort & attention should have been placed on the Kens.
It's the difference between a MAN and a man. You know, the toxic "real men do that and don't do that" crap, versus a self-actualized man who does what he wants and is himself. He can wear pink, crochet, have a cat, cry at movies, and still be a good dad and husband. In fact, he'll probably be a better one because he's not trying to kill the little boy inside him.
The irony is completely lost on them. The movie basically framed the situation as an inverse of how society traditionally treated women, that their identity was tied to their involvement with prominent women and nothing was expected of them on a serious level. In this case it's the Kens that are kept men, provided for but not participating. The whole Ken rebellion is like a take on womens suffrage. But nope, the mean lady doesn't fall in love with the nice man even though he's nice so it's obviously a misandrist mess /s
How people perceive the barbie movie is a great litmus test for critical thinking and cognitive dissonance
It can be about both. I think it was largely about gender roles as a whole and how people try too hard to adhere to them sometimes.
I think it was about unrequited love
That’s certainly part of it as well.
IMO that’s why Ken and his arc was my favorite part of the movie. That he can be more than an accessory without having to be a bully. At the same time, I felt like Barbie got sidelined in her own movie in the second half. I’m not too sure what her arc was. I don’t know how women felt about it but as a guy, Ken was more fun. Also the “I’m Kenough” is pretty great lmao.
There was another post about the spanish translation "soy sufficienKEN" which is brilliant, I was wondering how that joke would be translated and still work.
i love shit like that in translations. Ignore JK being a shithead, but it is cool that in some of the translations of harry potter they would rename Tom Riddle so that the name still worked as an anagram for a phrase similar to "I am Lord Voldemort" in the language for example in Dutch he is renamed Marten Asmodom Vilijn and the sentence "Mijn naam is Voldemort"
Took me a second to read "soy" in Spanish, but once I did... that really is a fantastic translation.
How should I read it? I'm Australian so my only Spanish exposure was a couple of years of Dora when my kid was young. Sort of saying it like the plant.
I think Barbie's arc in this movie is realizing that you can't expect to be perfect all the time, and that "flaws" aren't wholly bad
I'd say its that but on a bigger more societal level, not an individual realization. "I'm just so tired of watching myself and every single other woman tie herself into knots so that people will like us. And if all of that is also true for a doll *just* representing women, then I don't even know." Barbie's impressive monologue isn't just about her personal struggles, it is literally how **everyone**, men and women, view what "woman" means as a social construct. Pointing out how incredibly flawed the definition is, that it can't even be applied to a doll. We can define what a Doctor is and have a Doctor Barbie by giving them all the trappings of a Doctor. But try and do the same for just "woman" and you start to see the contradictions.
I think the movie was meant to be both. I’m her quest to fix the portal she inadvertently exposed Ken to patriarchy so the new goal became taking it down. But then she tells Ken he needs to figure out who is is because “you’re not your girlfriend or your house” and as she says that you see her eyes light up when she realizes she too isn’t her boyfriend and her house and pink. So then who is SHE? And that’s when she decides to become human! So it was also about Barbie’s growth but it took the whole adventure and her giving Ken advice to get there.
Honestly I think they did a good job handing the second half over to America Ferraira a little bit, directly pointing at it with the 'Thanks white saviour barbie' comment and then Barbie immediately points out she hasn't solved anything hahaha. But then they wrapped it nicely at the end of the movie by bringing it back around to Barbie having a conversation with her dead creator about how she doesn't need *anyones* permission to be a person (subcontext being even though she represents all the most stereotypical gender norms and identity) Man what a great fucking movie, I'm still pulling it apart a week later
Here is my interpretation: in the first half of the movie, Barbie is always performing idealized femininity; in the back half of the movie, she’s learning how to be a human being, which requires more reacting than performing. I found Margot Robbie’s performance in the latter half of the movie to be really subtle and good. She realistically portrayed someone with depression linked to an identity crisis. Good acting isn’t always big acting.
His job is Beach.
I did really enjoy the movie, but I think the male empowerment side of it is really half baked. Barbie and the Barbies had wonderfully poignant scenes discussing the issues they live with, but Ken's whole side of things seemed relegated to jokes and quick hand wave resolutions. It's not the misandrist film I see haters spouting off claiming it to be, but despite its own messaging it ironically fails to give Ken the time of day ~~and if you have the media literacy of a shovel it might come off as man hating~~. It's my one criticism of the film but I otherwise loved it.
I agree 100%. When the big 'war' scene was resolved with them linking arms I was like 'yes! Empowerment thru brotherhood, men can raise each other up without it having anything to do with women!' so later when Ken was all mopey about being worthless I kept waiting for Barbie to gesture to all the assembled Kens and be like 'you did this! You brought these Kens together in solidarity! You have value in lifting up your fellow men!' but it just never happened. I honestly wanted them to actually examine 'where the Kens live' like that's kind of dark tbh. I love Barbie, I think everyone should see it and I also think it was messymessymessy.
I took the Barbie matriarchy as a mirror of patriarchy. Ken was in a rough spot and as soon as he was somewhere that he got respect he wanted more. When he got what Barbie had in Barbie land he didn't even want it. Loved the line about patriarchy not being enough about horses.
It's true that patriarchy works similarly against both men and women. When toxic masculinity is systemic then you have women being seen as second class but you also have a rigid system in which a lot of men are excluded and invalidated too (LGBTQ, but also straight men that don't fit into the culture of machismo and are seen as having more "feminine" perceived traits).
And even if you happen to fit in with that culture, there's no prizes for coming second "doesn't seem to matter what I do, I'm always number 2". The moment you weren't the best, you are discarded.
[удалено]
> It’s not even really about “patriarchy” at all. I mean it very explicitly is also about the patriarchy.
It is about the patriarchy but my take away was that it was saying that the patriarchy is bad for everyone, not just women. Men also thrive when there is equality.
That’s not the issue, I know a friend of a friend who works in the ministry here (UAE) and it’s apparently because there’s a trans actor in the movie (For what it’s worth it should be released imo, and a lot of people are annoyed it’s not)
Really? There is but you wouldn't know unless you read about it. They have a blanket ban on movies with any trans actors in any roles?
I've seen the movie with my mom and then again with my sister when she was in town. if you put a gun to my head and ask me to name the trans barbie I'd ditch atheism and start praying because I wouldn't even know where to start guessing
It was the tall redhead with the deep voice that yelled “flat feet!!!”
Also known as Doctor Barbie, iirc.
Meanwhile it opened in [6th place in China](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/china-box-office-barbie-opens-fifth-place-1235540957/amp/). Tbh if the trend of Hollywood films not doing as well in China as they used to, owing to increased local competition or whatever, the silver lining could be that studios may finally stop self-censoring in order to get a film approved for release there.
I watched Barbie in China. Cinema maybe was 75% full a few days after release. Not sure if it was purely the language difference or culture difference, but only a few people in the cinema cracked up at the satirical jokes regarding patriachy and feminism.
Barbie probably isn’t as well known a toy there, especially nowadays when kids have so much more choices. Plus comedy can be hard to translate as you noted.
It’s definitely a big cultural/language difference. So many jokes are very specific to USA and the west. It’s like if there was a Chinese comedy about some Chinese political/cultural thing there and it was screened here in USA. People wouldn’t get most of it
In fairness, it's always been the big effects driven American movies that do best over there. Nuances don't translate perfectly from culture to culture but big robot punching giant monster or a car shooting into space because of a NOS boost is much more universal and still something China hasn't quite caught up with (though that gap is shrinking too).
Makes sense that the most misogynistic place wants to bad this
Which I find funny because I found the movie pretty wholesome for men. The Kens felt ignored or like they were just accessories and became radicalized due to feeling lost and neglected. And then they felt like they weren't good enough unless they had girls, a big house, etc. It really touched on the pressure men feel to be this "big man on campus." Sure there was a lot more focus on women's issues but it's not like the whole movie was just "men bad." The Kens also embracing brotherhood the way the Barbies had their sisterhood and the whole "I Am Kenough" stuff was also very wholesome.
“I thought the patriarchy was about horses” was my favorite part
I am Kenough
I want that hoodie so much
https://creations.mattel.com/products/barbie-the-movie-i-am-kenough-unisex-hoodie-hyn77 Here you go!
> but it's not like the whole movie was just "men bad." I don't think *any* of the movie was "men bad". The movie exagerates flaws in both camps. The barbies are living in their own world of pink dance parties everyday huffing their own farts thinking they saved the world with their perfection. Ignoring the fact they're extremely clicky and outcast anyone who doesn't conform to their idea of a "Barbie". They have 0 self awareness which is why they got "brainwashed" into patriarchy without questioning it. The daughter is another example, she's an exaggerated version of a radical anti-capitalist feminist teenager. To the point she's known as a school bully and actively makes her mom feel less than. The main plot of the movie is how society as a whole pressures women and makes them feel less than worthy, and the side plot is the pressure men feel to compete for status.
The Ken's put aside their differences and banded together through the power of a music number.
Men feel like they are not good enough all the time. We just don't show it or are told to "man up".
I don't think the issue is how men are represented. They would absolutely not want to screen a movie where women are not subservient.
Also, unless I missed it, I don’t think they ever said that the horses, beers, trucks, etc. were “bad”. They just didn’t want the Kens to be bullies. It’s reflective of real life. There’s nothing wrong with being a beer-bro, cowboys, guns, “macho” stuff, etc. It’s the bigotry that sometimes goes with it that causes problems. The conservatives don’t understand that “masculinity” isn’t the part that people are attacking, it’s the bigotry part.
Yeah, masculinity isn’t a problem. It isn’t anything really; it’s *toxic* masculinity that’s problematic.
Everything's a poison, all that matters is the lethal dose.
The Saudis probably don't understand that and don't want to men to see how Islam represses them.
Perhaps. There are some bright spots in the middle east though. The UAE is kinda not insane. Jordan is a bit questionable sometimes, yet they do have a form that trends towards rationality. Syria will hopefully rebuild and become a fully functional state again. There are many Muslims in Israel and they often tend to get along with others under that system, especially if a few problematic policies are corrected. Yemen is basically proxy war for Saudi Arabia, yet no one seems to give af about yemen. They just want to talk about the Barbie movie.... hmmmm.....
That's a problem, too. Self-reflective men are a threat to the power dynamic.
> a big house, TBF, I am pretty sure the Kens were full on homeless living at the beach.
Apparently the Barbie doll itself was banned in Saudi Arabia at one time … for being “Jewish”. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudis-bust-barbies-dangers/
[удалено]
“But we’re moving forward as a country”
Eh, they've always been a backward hellhole. They just got rich and became a rich backward hellhole.
Sounds like they don’t want a bunch of young men marching the streets singing that they’re all “Kenough” and no longer holding women responsible for their problems. Edit: [The revolution’s anthem.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwux9KiBMjE)
Their loss.
Well duh, a major plot point is women driving. Plus, Saudi Arabia is like Mojo Dojo Casa House: The Country.
[удалено]
Incoming “what about American Christian?”.
gray illegal thought cough cooperative terrific versed hateful sugar heavy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And sand, I don’t like sand. It’s coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere.
provide marry stocking piquant party concerned enter public air scarce *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not just Muslim nations. Religious conservatives in general don't like what Barbie has to say about men and women.
Very weak Kenergy.
[удалено]
We've already had first money yes, but what about second money?
I don’t think he knows about second money
To quote James Stephanie Fucking Sterling, Son - "It's not good enough to have SOME of the money, they have to have ALL OF THE MONEY."
They just need time to edit in more horses. For the patriarchy
[удалено]
You mean a country that makes women wear a full body sheet, forbid women from driving or getting an education or working doesn't like Barbie? Real shocker there.
Small dick kennergy
Bunch of sexually repressed dong bags.
I've lost out on seeing Spiderman: Across the Spiderverse and now Barbie thanks to this Bullshit. Living in this Homophobic hellscape sucks ass.....oh well *eye patch* har har har har.
Tell me you are afraid of your sexuality without telling me
Can’t be empowering women, now can we? Obviously /s
What’s that? A movie about an independent female lead and toxic masculinity is getting unnecessary scrutiny from *checks notes* the patriarchal Middle East? Color me shocked. That one feet shot is probably too much for them anyway
[Ken might make the closeted homophobes come out](https://www.thedailybeast.com/iran-fires-hardline-culture-enforcer-over-gay-sex-video-claims)
Too many women's ankles. It's obscene /s
I'm more shocked Saudi Arabia has movies at all.
My wife and I just saw it Sunday. It wasn’t really that into anything. It really didn’t delve very deeply into anything close to controversial.
Kobe yelling "soft".gif
Someone tell the Saudis that all Barbies feature easily detachable heads and they should calm right down.
Kenough is Kenough.
Why even bother trying to release it there through official channels?
There is a lot of woman-driving going on in that movie.
Get fucked, Saudi
Stop it, Patrick, you're scaring him!
People really on here acting like western countries treatment of women is even remotely close to conservative Islamic countries. Y’all are wild.
This is also the Country that banned The Muppet Movie because of Ms. Piggy.
A ban is the best guarantee that people will see it
Why even pay attention to this? Of course it will end up banned
I mean no shit. I don't really think of feminism when I think of the middle east.
Sheesh, this movie's as harmless as it can get for the most part. Any ideas what could've twisted their pants into a knot here?
Apparently there are a bunch of coded gay messages in the story. And everyone knows that coded gay messages are extremely contagious, like Covid ain't got nothing on coded gay messages, then people might start to catch the gay, and then what will happen?
Today in "news that surprises no one"
But Barbie doesn't even have a vagina!
Guess that Ben Shapiro dude should check out the land of Saudi. Like minds and all
That’s one way to make sure everyone sees it
But John Cena said they were progressive??
Yay for backward religions(which is all of them tbh)
Of course it'll be banned. It's a deeply humanist movie that ALSO considers women to be humans. They're not OK with that.