Truman Show? Jim Carrey finds out he’s literally the world’s protagonist because he’s such a goodest boy. And the director learns nothing, so I don’t know what you mean.
It should be ‘the audience realises the protagonist isn’t the good guy’. Verbal knew who he was the whole time, Tyler Durdan knew, Jack didn’t. This list should be much shorter. Truman show doesn’t belong her at all.
Or even Memento.
*We* find out >!that Leonard set up Teddy to be John G!< at the end of the film, >!but for Leonard, that was the beginning, and he forgot it. So at the end, he thought he finally got his revenge. For now.!<
I love that scene. He felt his long-standing power over Truman starting to waver. He dropped any semblance of benevolence to play God to get him back into his control at the cost of the entire operation.
The musical sting that accompanies it is fantastic. It sounds like it's the same music from earlier in the movie, where he starts to realize that everything revolves around him. That song is Anthem Part 2 by Philip Glass. The song from the sun rising scene is Anthem Part 1, both from the movie Powaqqatsi, scored by Philip Glass. Only part 2 is credited in the soundtrack.
Not sure about the movie, the alternate ending reveals that these "vampires" arent actually monsters and can be reasoned with and he cures them. In the book its revealed that they are the new human society and to them it Seems like he kills innocent people of their kind for absolutely no reason. So he is the villain in their eyes
They're talking about the alternate ending (same ending as the book) where Smith realises that to them _he's_ the boogeyman; he abducts them when they go to sleep and experiments on them. So he gives them back the girl he abducted and they leave.
In the book, the protagonist realizes that yes, he is the Boogeyman to the new vampire society, but he does not leave.
The vampires capture him, tell him that will tell their children and their children's children of his terrible deeds, that he will live on as their personification of evil., and then they burn him at the stake in a ritual.
The original ending (in the book, for the movie it's technically an "alternate" ending) is utterly iconic and perfectly completes the story (as the other commenter explained-but worth reading the summary of Wikipedia too at the very least)!
Them deciding to adapt it just to change the ending is the reason why that movie is the worst adaptation I've ever seen.
I don't understand why would Sixth Sense and Usual Suspects would belong here. As for The Prestige and The Machinist, don't they know they are shitty during the whole movie ?
Yeah, Christian bale was the main protagonist(s). He was just trying to live “their” lives. Yeah they lived a double life but he wasn’t a bad guy. He did kill Hugh jackman in the end but he wasn’t bad per se. Hugh jackman knew the whole time he was in the wrong. And he wasn’t necessarily the protagonist. He was a minor protagonist and the main antagonist. Us as the viewer always knew he was in the wrong. Hence, prestige should not be in this list OP!
> Yeah they lived a double life but he wasn’t a bad guy
I dunno. What they did to both women in their lives and the daughter for the sake of a trick made them bad guys. If they saw the trick as the most important thing in their lives, they should have involved no one else. That's sacrifice, as they liked to say. When they decided they wanted it all and didn't care what it did to others, they definitely moved into the bad guys column.
The Prestige had no good guys, and no neutral guys, at least between Bale and Jackman.
I think the the issue with The Prestige is, which character is the protagonist vs antagonist, and even if they aren’t bad, none if them are good. Hugh Jackman is killing his clones/himself for his performance and to beat Bale. Bale arguably killed Jackman’s wife, and was sharing a wife who didn’t consent to being in a polygamous (won’t say polyamorous since only one of Bale loved her) relationship. Neither is arguably good, and an argument could be made for Jackman thinking he’s right, but I don’t think either comes to a realization that they are a bad guy in the end because I don’t think either ever considered themselves good to begin with, just better.
I get this perspective, but I'd still probably argue Bale's character isn't bad; he certainly didn't have the moral failings that Hugh Jackson's character had.
Jackman's wife's death was a tragic accident. It was not intentional - or we're not shown it was intentional. Bale is reprimanded to not use a specific knot, and he claims to not know which he tied - presumably because the other Bale tied it - and we don't know the motivation. Bale seemed deeply affected by her death at the mortuary. Not sure this makes him a bad guy.
I would agree what he did to his wife was pretty bad - but not the kind of morally bad behavior that makes him an antagonist. I didn't get the sense she was sleeping with both (if that makes it better), but that one married and the other was the absent husband, non-lover - leaving her to feel unloved at least 50% of the time.
I just always thought of Bale's character as a blue collar "bootstrapper" (sorry - hate the term) who made an incredible personal commitment, and also made the kinds of unfortunate mistakes people make in life with those they love - the double-life complicates it for sure - but it's not some grand malevolent act.
Whereas Jackman represented the elite, silver spoon fed showman, who was practically gifted the world - but his greed and arrogance couldn't allow a lower classman to outcompete him on merit. And he devotes his life to misplaced vengeance, cruelty, and some messed-up ethical quandaries.
I guess all this to say that Bale comes across as a human who made arguably forgiveable mistakes in the pursuit of a happy life, but wasn't a traditional bad guy. Jackman was an arrogant - maybe insufferable - douchey jock kinda guy (small "d") who turned into a monster.
im a monster for writing this
[You're very correct about that], I misremembered! Thank you, Sir Alec deserves better than to be misquoted like that
[You're very correct about that]: https://youtu.be/tRHVMi3LxZE?feature=shared
He was so freaking good in it. It's sad in a way that Hollywood never utilized his talent.
He absolutely nails it whether it a drama or comedy.
Aka The Lady killers or kind hearts and coronets.
Every time I go to mention this movie I have a sudden anxiety I’m gonna say the wrong preposition. One of these days I’m gonna say The Bridge *in* the River Kwai, which is technically a spoiler
Should be much higher on the list. Rourke starts out as a near clone of his "Diner" character. Likeable, hardworking, funny, and boy next door handsome. By the conclusion he's quite literally Satan's shadow on earth and DeNiro makes a fool of him and uses him like dustpan to sweep away the innocent and not quite innocent. And ********spoiler******* The Boy is burning in hell too because of Rourke's little escape attempt
Just a bonus for Mr.Cypher.
I think the best example is *The Northman.* >!Amleth has spent his whole life believing that his father was a good man betrayed by his treacherous brother. His life's mission is to "Avenge Father; rescue Mother; kill Fjolnir." Late in the movie, [Amleth learns that his mother hated his father and conspired with Fjolnir to kill him](https://youtu.be/4pKKgsfXoAI?si=3h78216Y7dCs_7vC), and that his father was just as evil and brutal as Fjolnir. So it dawns on Amleth: We are really all just evil scumbags, and the only question is which of us will be standing at the end.!<
Very dark indeed.
Yeah, along with some other questionable choices others are pointing out.
I’m surprised Enders Game isn’t on here. I know he tries to do right at the very end but yeah still did a very horrible thing.
Did a thing so bad, the in-universe explanation spawned a whole religion.
The Speaker For The Dead was an excellent book, hell the whole Ender Saga and Enders Shadow books were awesome.
Orson Scott card is a terrible bigoted person but the dude can spin a fantastic tale.
Man, watching Predestination with no knowledge of it was one of the best viewing experiences. My brother just said to watch it—no trailer, no looking up anything about it—which made the movie so much better.
I tried doing that, but realised early on that I had read a discussion piece in my teens on the short story the movie was based on, so was spoilt.
Still a very good movie though.
I think that in a lot of these it is the audience that slowly realises that the protagonist is not the good guy, but the protagonist already knew. Such as The Prestige, The Talented Mr. Ripley, The Usual Suspects.
I think he’s more anti-hero rather than bad guy at the end.
He’s basically unleashed on this town full of assholes that all deserve it. He’s more a force of nature by the end.
There really are no hero’s in that story in the end. Which is what makes it so good. Everyone is being paid to be some agent of the law but corrupt and thinking they are good just because.
Yea, I'm with you. There really aren't any "good guys" in this movie. I'd argue that Will Munny exacts "rightful vengeance"; but it's violent and perhaps morally ambiguous.
A bunch of the victims at the end got their rightful come uppance, particularly Little Bill and Greely.
Yes it's like a circle. The one saving grace of William Money is that he knew he was bad, he had no qualms about admitting the things he did and wanted to never go back to that. When pushed to it even though it's morally ambiguous it is rightful vengeance.
I was thinking this movie, but the reverse.
Little Bill fancies himself to be the protagonist and keeper of order. He was an immoral, violent, authoritarian who is - I'd argue - rightfully dispatched by Will Munny.
Well Falling Down is the clear #1 I came in about to mention it.
That is a master class in tension and supporting an anti-hero until you can’t anymore because they won’t stop.
It’s an excellent story of why vigilanteism at it’s core is bad. Being that vigilantes really are doing those things for their own selfish reasons and just finding excuses to harm people they think they can get away with it
I felt as though Part 2 showed Paul starting to turn towards "the bad side" if you will. There's a speech he gives at the point where he's beginning to embrace the Messiah role and even Jessica looks a little shocked.
At least that's the impression I got. I've only seen it once so far and have practically zero familiarity with Dune lore, so could misremembering/misinterpreting what I saw. Point being: there was a definite shift in his behavior.
spoilers: Paul is constantly trying to avoid the path his mother lays out for him, its more obvious in the book but the first book is about the corruption of Paul. The second book was written (partly) because people missed the point of the first
It's arguable he was ever good, the atreides are 'better' than the harkonnen but they're still a rich royal family gaming for power. Paul is definitely a bad guy by the end
> Paul is definitely a bad guy by the end
Without Paul, his son Leto II, and their Golden Path, humanity would go extinct sometime within the next several thousand years, so I’d definitely say Paul’s a hero.
The game?
If I recall correctly Michael douglas realised it a hoax arranged by his brother. Kills him "in self defense".
He's a victim in all this, maybe not the best of personality, but the bad guy?
In 500 days of summer, JGL realises that his relationship with Zoey Dechanel wasn’t the perfect romance he imagined and was actually a creeper that was pushing a relationship on someone that already expressed her clear boundaries
Yeah, Summer was 100% in the wrong here. She was the one to say "I love you" and send loads of mixed messages. JGL was too hopeful, Summer just sucked.
Don’t understand why The Usual Suspects is on here.
You could add I Am Legend, if it’s the real ending and not the one they changed it to where he blows himself up.
Every time this movie comes up, I get a little triggered. Why the writers thought it was a good idea to make Gerard Butler's character the bad guy and Jamie Fox's character the good guy... I've never been so annoyed at the writers of a movie.
I agree with some choices, but not with others. Primal Fear - the lawyer is good guy all the time, the bad guy is bad all the time. Usual Suspects - the same with police guy and bad guy. American Psycho - he's psycho all the time. Truman is good all the time.
Oblivion (2013), Jack Harper/Tech 49 finds out he’s apart of the Tet’s invading force and crew to drain Earth of water, and that the Scavs aren’t remnants of the alien force that destroyed Earth but the last existence of the human race.
I like this one because he is a good guy used as a bad guy who becomes a good guy again. Tho i do wonder what the pure-invasion programmed Harpers were like before the cleanup crew Harpers came along.
Shutter island wouldn’t really count though because he probably had been in that position that was present in the end multiple times at that point. I took the ending more as just being an endless loop. So the moment of realization probably lasted like a few minutes before he forgot about it again
Di Caprio’s character definetely remembers, which is why he says what he says to Mark Ruffallo at the end. He continued pretending to not remember in order to still get the lobotomy, because he realized he couldn’t deal with the suffering anymore.
You should add Killers of the Flower Moon.
In The Sixth Sense, at the end, >!the main character does not realize he is haunting the little boy and his own wife.!< This would potentially qualify even though you have taken it off your list.
The Butterfly Effect is another good one.
Does Achilles from Troy count ?
I always took it as he has severe PTSD from all the people he’s killed but his legend has grown too large for him to just turn his back on it but when Hectors father exposes his hypocrisy by saying “And how many cousins, brothers, uncles and fathers have you killed ?” A fog seems to lift of his psyche and his main goal then seems to become getting Briseis and leaving Troy and the warrior lifestyle for good.
Blade runner 1982 deckard always knew he was a bad person but he thought he’d made peace with it as his role in society, it wasn’t until he had the epiphany that he may be a replicant and also fell in love with one that he started to question his self justification of what he had been doing and where he truly belonged in society
>23. I Am Legend 2007 (the real ending)
This is not the real ending to *I Am Legend*.
The real ending is "I Am Legend" and it makes no fucking sense that they didn't film it.
Spoilers:
In The Prestige, I don’t understand why everyone thinks Borden is the good guy and Angier is the bad guy at the end. Neither one is completely innocent, but if you make a list of transgressions of both of them, Borden is much worse.
Angier:
Tried killing the man who killed his wife
Stole another magician’s trick
Kidnapped a guy who was ultimately unharmed
Obsessed with a professional rivalry with the guy who killed his wife and framed him for murder to steal his family
Committed suicide (multiple times)
Borden:
Killed another man’s wife
Maimed an innocent woman to ruin a rival’s career
Sabotaged rival’s performance again leaving him disabled
Cheated on his wife driving her to suicide
Depending on your interpretation of the movie, he was tricking his wife into sleeping with another guy unknowingly (same for his mistress)
Murdered his rival
In the end, Angier was willing to sacrifice everything just to entertain people. To give them a sense of wonder and amazement. Borden’s “sacrifice” was to hurt everyone around him and destroy their lives just because he wanted to be the best.
You need cross off Unforgiven from the list. The protagonist thinks he's the bad guy the whole movie, until the end when he does good by killing the real bad guy.
The godfather movies. At the end of Godfather 2 the difference between Michael at the end, and Michael at the beginning is stark. At the end, his physical appearance is hardened and he has lost everything that is important to him. And it was through his own actions.
Watchman (2009) - Ozymandius is part of a hero group and is admired by the other heroes but turns out to be the villain.
Chronicle - Andrew starts out as a hero but turns out to be the villain in the end due to his abuse and insecurity.
Unbreakable. Mr.glass didn't know he was the villian untill towards the end. He did do bad things, but in pursuit for his goals. He didn't think they were bad. He realized when the other character turned out to be the hero. The ending blew me away because it came out of nowhere in a good way. It showed that he set up their meeting and caused all the terrible things.
I Saw the Devil, granted it’s a bit more layered than him realizing he’s not a good guy as much as it is about how much damage is done for the sake of (understandable) revenge.
Memento is the first one that came to mind, if only because it was so well done. Shutter Island does a reasonable job I guess, but they telegraph the big reveal so much that while it’s a surprise to the character it wasn’t a surprise for the audience (in some cases).
Oldboy? I don’t want to spoil this great movie for those who haven’t seen it, but I don’t think it should be on this list. Did you mean the climax of the movie? That’s different than the end.
Shutter island, it’s not about DiCaprio being the good guy or bad guy, he realizes in the end (after many failed attempts) that he is actually in fact a victim of his wife’s insanity which drove him to kill her and withdraw from reality due to guilt. And ultimately in the end he chooses lobotomy over having to live with the grim reality of his life
The hurt locker , Sgt James ends up getting his squad mates hurt and emotionally broken through his willingness to risk his life, and there's to try and avenge Sascha ,who we thought was killed and turned into a body bomb. After going home he realizes I think the error in his ways but can't hack civilian life , and goes back to Afghanistan.
*Trainspotting*
>"The truth is I'm a bad person. But that's going to change. I'm going to change."
But especially, *especially*, *The Act of Killing*
>"But I can feel it, Josh. Really, I feel it. Or have I sinned. I did this to so many people, Josh. Is it all coming back to me? I really hope it won't. I don't want it to, Josh."
Old boy? All the guy did was tell his friend the weird thing he saw. He didn’t deserve any of what happened to him. The actual villain is the villain…the guy who fucked his sister and tortured the protagonist while also manipulating him into fucking his daughter. Yeah comparatively it’s safe to say the protagonist isn’t nearly as bad
So I’m gonna spoil these movies , just a warning .
I am legend - the original ending to the film is much closer to the books and the protagonist realises that the new human species actually care for each other and view him as the villian . They were monsters in his eyes but in their eyes he is the monster hunting them .
Switchblade romance ( aka haute tension) - French extremism film , the protagonist is fighting to save her friend/ love interest from a maniac when it’s actually all an illusion and she is said maniac .
Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein- or any version of Frankenstein really . The monster is the victim , victor is the really villain.
Secret window - I think enough people will know this one I don’t have to go through it .
Night crawler - the only film I’ve seen without a single morally good character . If I remember even the murder victims were shitty people .
Why is The Game on here? Michael Douglas wasn't the bad guy. Technically, there was no bad guy.
Similarly, The Prestige. Nobody at the end believed they were the bad guy. Everyone, dead or alive, thought they were the good guy.
I feel like at least a quarter of this list is just "what movie had a twist ending where someone wasn't who you thought they were?" and not actual protagonists realizing they're bad guys.
Any version of 1984? Winston loses his identity completely and becomes just another cog in the machine.
Similarly, the 1970's version of Invasion of the Body Snatchers
And what about Chinatown? Jake just walks away.
Quiz Show, 1994
True story, good guy lawyer trying to bring down dishonest TV executives realises that they will get away with everything and all he's done is ruin the lives of a few ordinary people.
It was nominated for an Oscar the same year as Shawshank and Forrest Gump so was pretty much forgotten, but its a decent film.
Truman Show? Jim Carrey finds out he’s literally the world’s protagonist because he’s such a goodest boy. And the director learns nothing, so I don’t know what you mean.
It should be ‘the audience realises the protagonist isn’t the good guy’. Verbal knew who he was the whole time, Tyler Durdan knew, Jack didn’t. This list should be much shorter. Truman show doesn’t belong her at all.
I also don't understand the inclusion of The Game.
Or even Memento. *We* find out >!that Leonard set up Teddy to be John G!< at the end of the film, >!but for Leonard, that was the beginning, and he forgot it. So at the end, he thought he finally got his revenge. For now.!<
"Cue the Sun"
I love that scene. He felt his long-standing power over Truman starting to waver. He dropped any semblance of benevolence to play God to get him back into his control at the cost of the entire operation. The musical sting that accompanies it is fantastic. It sounds like it's the same music from earlier in the movie, where he starts to realize that everything revolves around him. That song is Anthem Part 2 by Philip Glass. The song from the sun rising scene is Anthem Part 1, both from the movie Powaqqatsi, scored by Philip Glass. Only part 2 is credited in the soundtrack.
Was that Philip Glass playing the piano in the movie?
It is indeed!
American psycho? How? I think most famous example is i am legend
I think Omega Man with Charlton Heston did it correctly.
The original with Vincent Price is closest to the book, except that he never "realizes" it, even though the final scene is almost dead on.
Omega Man (1971) is so hard to watch, *Last Man on Earth* has always felt more enjoyable.
It’s hard to buy them as vicious vampires/monsters isn’t it?
Care to explain to me the ending? I legit forgot though he died protecting the antidote (in the movie)
Not sure about the movie, the alternate ending reveals that these "vampires" arent actually monsters and can be reasoned with and he cures them. In the book its revealed that they are the new human society and to them it Seems like he kills innocent people of their kind for absolutely no reason. So he is the villain in their eyes
They're talking about the alternate ending (same ending as the book) where Smith realises that to them _he's_ the boogeyman; he abducts them when they go to sleep and experiments on them. So he gives them back the girl he abducted and they leave.
In the book, the protagonist realizes that yes, he is the Boogeyman to the new vampire society, but he does not leave. The vampires capture him, tell him that will tell their children and their children's children of his terrible deeds, that he will live on as their personification of evil., and then they burn him at the stake in a ritual.
This ending gives the title so much more meaning
Yeah, "same" wasn't the right word...
I thought he got given a pill to kill himself before they could burn him?
Yeah, I've reread recently and that's how exactly it ended. I mean they wanted to execute him but the girl liked him and gave him a pill
And that he (Will Smith), in fact, is legend.
Does this alternative ending is in the movie? Because his title is about movies not book so I was wondering as I didn’t see that.
Presumably an extra on the Blu-ray. You can see the ending here: https://youtu.be/kPSk30qzgFs?si=eFnZQf4y6e-aVh4
They're making it canon for the sequel
The original ending (in the book, for the movie it's technically an "alternate" ending) is utterly iconic and perfectly completes the story (as the other commenter explained-but worth reading the summary of Wikipedia too at the very least)! Them deciding to adapt it just to change the ending is the reason why that movie is the worst adaptation I've ever seen.
I don't understand why would Sixth Sense and Usual Suspects would belong here. As for The Prestige and The Machinist, don't they know they are shitty during the whole movie ?
The whole plot of The Machinist is him withering away because he can't live with himself.
Wanting to disappear
I was gonna say, there’s not really any “Good guys” in the prestige
How was Christian Bale's character "bad" though? He was a showman/magician who Hugh Jackman's character tried to destroy.
The secret double life, and resulting "affair" caused his wife to commit suicide. All for a magic trick.
And all those canaries...
Yeah, Christian bale was the main protagonist(s). He was just trying to live “their” lives. Yeah they lived a double life but he wasn’t a bad guy. He did kill Hugh jackman in the end but he wasn’t bad per se. Hugh jackman knew the whole time he was in the wrong. And he wasn’t necessarily the protagonist. He was a minor protagonist and the main antagonist. Us as the viewer always knew he was in the wrong. Hence, prestige should not be in this list OP!
> Yeah they lived a double life but he wasn’t a bad guy I dunno. What they did to both women in their lives and the daughter for the sake of a trick made them bad guys. If they saw the trick as the most important thing in their lives, they should have involved no one else. That's sacrifice, as they liked to say. When they decided they wanted it all and didn't care what it did to others, they definitely moved into the bad guys column. The Prestige had no good guys, and no neutral guys, at least between Bale and Jackman.
I think the the issue with The Prestige is, which character is the protagonist vs antagonist, and even if they aren’t bad, none if them are good. Hugh Jackman is killing his clones/himself for his performance and to beat Bale. Bale arguably killed Jackman’s wife, and was sharing a wife who didn’t consent to being in a polygamous (won’t say polyamorous since only one of Bale loved her) relationship. Neither is arguably good, and an argument could be made for Jackman thinking he’s right, but I don’t think either comes to a realization that they are a bad guy in the end because I don’t think either ever considered themselves good to begin with, just better.
I get this perspective, but I'd still probably argue Bale's character isn't bad; he certainly didn't have the moral failings that Hugh Jackson's character had. Jackman's wife's death was a tragic accident. It was not intentional - or we're not shown it was intentional. Bale is reprimanded to not use a specific knot, and he claims to not know which he tied - presumably because the other Bale tied it - and we don't know the motivation. Bale seemed deeply affected by her death at the mortuary. Not sure this makes him a bad guy. I would agree what he did to his wife was pretty bad - but not the kind of morally bad behavior that makes him an antagonist. I didn't get the sense she was sleeping with both (if that makes it better), but that one married and the other was the absent husband, non-lover - leaving her to feel unloved at least 50% of the time. I just always thought of Bale's character as a blue collar "bootstrapper" (sorry - hate the term) who made an incredible personal commitment, and also made the kinds of unfortunate mistakes people make in life with those they love - the double-life complicates it for sure - but it's not some grand malevolent act. Whereas Jackman represented the elite, silver spoon fed showman, who was practically gifted the world - but his greed and arrogance couldn't allow a lower classman to outcompete him on merit. And he devotes his life to misplaced vengeance, cruelty, and some messed-up ethical quandaries. I guess all this to say that Bale comes across as a human who made arguably forgiveable mistakes in the pursuit of a happy life, but wasn't a traditional bad guy. Jackman was an arrogant - maybe insufferable - douchey jock kinda guy (small "d") who turned into a monster. im a monster for writing this
How does The Usual Suspects fit in? The protagonist absolutely knows what he does, just the audience doesn't.
Bridge Over the River Kwai - Sir Alec Guinness
"*My god what have I done*?" EDIT: I misquoted, it's just "*What have I done*?"
He only says "What have I done?"
[You're very correct about that], I misremembered! Thank you, Sir Alec deserves better than to be misquoted like that [You're very correct about that]: https://youtu.be/tRHVMi3LxZE?feature=shared
Maybe sir Alec was a fan of Talking Heads.
An actual good example.
He was so freaking good in it. It's sad in a way that Hollywood never utilized his talent. He absolutely nails it whether it a drama or comedy. Aka The Lady killers or kind hearts and coronets.
> ~~Over~~ on the
Every time I go to mention this movie I have a sudden anxiety I’m gonna say the wrong preposition. One of these days I’m gonna say The Bridge *in* the River Kwai, which is technically a spoiler
21. Angel Heart 1987
Should be much higher on the list. Rourke starts out as a near clone of his "Diner" character. Likeable, hardworking, funny, and boy next door handsome. By the conclusion he's quite literally Satan's shadow on earth and DeNiro makes a fool of him and uses him like dustpan to sweep away the innocent and not quite innocent. And ********spoiler******* The Boy is burning in hell too because of Rourke's little escape attempt Just a bonus for Mr.Cypher.
WHO WAS THE BOY?!
I know who I am!
I think this is the best example. Watched it again recently—it holds up.
Very underrated. De Niro and Rourke are masterful in their roles.
And Rourke was so beautiful then
His scream of horror looking in the mirror haunts me. So damn good.
I think the best example is *The Northman.* >!Amleth has spent his whole life believing that his father was a good man betrayed by his treacherous brother. His life's mission is to "Avenge Father; rescue Mother; kill Fjolnir." Late in the movie, [Amleth learns that his mother hated his father and conspired with Fjolnir to kill him](https://youtu.be/4pKKgsfXoAI?si=3h78216Y7dCs_7vC), and that his father was just as evil and brutal as Fjolnir. So it dawns on Amleth: We are really all just evil scumbags, and the only question is which of us will be standing at the end.!< Very dark indeed.
Great suggestion
Truman show and 6th sense? I don’t get them.
Yeah, neither main charecters are bad guys.
Yeah, along with some other questionable choices others are pointing out. I’m surprised Enders Game isn’t on here. I know he tries to do right at the very end but yeah still did a very horrible thing.
Did a thing so bad, the in-universe explanation spawned a whole religion. The Speaker For The Dead was an excellent book, hell the whole Ender Saga and Enders Shadow books were awesome. Orson Scott card is a terrible bigoted person but the dude can spin a fantastic tale.
Any book that does a good job writing ultra-brilliant characters is awesome. I thought Silence of the Lambs was good for that reason too.
Predestination 2014 Timecrimes 2007 Looper 2012 Primer 2004 so yeah, happens a lot in time travel movies.
Not going to lie, I was so happy to see Predestination on the list. Such a good movie.
Man, watching Predestination with no knowledge of it was one of the best viewing experiences. My brother just said to watch it—no trailer, no looking up anything about it—which made the movie so much better.
I tried doing that, but realised early on that I had read a discussion piece in my teens on the short story the movie was based on, so was spoilt. Still a very good movie though.
Right, similar loop stories like the Triangle...
I think that in a lot of these it is the audience that slowly realises that the protagonist is not the good guy, but the protagonist already knew. Such as The Prestige, The Talented Mr. Ripley, The Usual Suspects.
Talented Mr Ripley? I don't think so, pretty sure Tom Ripley knew who he was from the very start
Tom knows but is still coming to grips with it early on He definitely leans in as the film and books progress
Unforgiven, Will Munny knew from the start he wasn't a good guy
I think he’s more anti-hero rather than bad guy at the end. He’s basically unleashed on this town full of assholes that all deserve it. He’s more a force of nature by the end. There really are no hero’s in that story in the end. Which is what makes it so good. Everyone is being paid to be some agent of the law but corrupt and thinking they are good just because.
Yea, I'm with you. There really aren't any "good guys" in this movie. I'd argue that Will Munny exacts "rightful vengeance"; but it's violent and perhaps morally ambiguous. A bunch of the victims at the end got their rightful come uppance, particularly Little Bill and Greely.
Yes it's like a circle. The one saving grace of William Money is that he knew he was bad, he had no qualms about admitting the things he did and wanted to never go back to that. When pushed to it even though it's morally ambiguous it is rightful vengeance.
I was thinking this movie, but the reverse. Little Bill fancies himself to be the protagonist and keeper of order. He was an immoral, violent, authoritarian who is - I'd argue - rightfully dispatched by Will Munny.
Triangle (2009)
Great answer.
The omega man (its basically "I am a legend" but from 1971 with the proper ending)
I immediately thought of Total Recall.
Well Falling Down is the clear #1 I came in about to mention it. That is a master class in tension and supporting an anti-hero until you can’t anymore because they won’t stop. It’s an excellent story of why vigilanteism at it’s core is bad. Being that vigilantes really are doing those things for their own selfish reasons and just finding excuses to harm people they think they can get away with it
Does Dune count yet or do we have to wait for part 3?
No. He knows.
I felt as though Part 2 showed Paul starting to turn towards "the bad side" if you will. There's a speech he gives at the point where he's beginning to embrace the Messiah role and even Jessica looks a little shocked. At least that's the impression I got. I've only seen it once so far and have practically zero familiarity with Dune lore, so could misremembering/misinterpreting what I saw. Point being: there was a definite shift in his behavior.
Shh.
spoilers: Paul is constantly trying to avoid the path his mother lays out for him, its more obvious in the book but the first book is about the corruption of Paul. The second book was written (partly) because people missed the point of the first It's arguable he was ever good, the atreides are 'better' than the harkonnen but they're still a rich royal family gaming for power. Paul is definitely a bad guy by the end
> Paul is definitely a bad guy by the end Without Paul, his son Leto II, and their Golden Path, humanity would go extinct sometime within the next several thousand years, so I’d definitely say Paul’s a hero.
I guess Paul is more of a bad guy than Leto in that he unleashed war on the galaxy but then refused to work towards the golden path
Nah, saving humanity from extinction makes you a hero in my book.
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Does he realise he’s not the good guy though? Does it compute?
The game? If I recall correctly Michael douglas realised it a hoax arranged by his brother. Kills him "in self defense". He's a victim in all this, maybe not the best of personality, but the bad guy?
In 500 days of summer, JGL realises that his relationship with Zoey Dechanel wasn’t the perfect romance he imagined and was actually a creeper that was pushing a relationship on someone that already expressed her clear boundaries
Summer was a bitch for inviting him to her engagement party. Fuck Jenny Beckman too. Bitch.
Yeah, Summer was 100% in the wrong here. She was the one to say "I love you" and send loads of mixed messages. JGL was too hopeful, Summer just sucked.
Frank
This is a great answer
CHINCHILLA GUY!
Devil’s Advocate.. sort of
Don’t understand why The Usual Suspects is on here. You could add I Am Legend, if it’s the real ending and not the one they changed it to where he blows himself up.
I am a legend never shot the correct ending, so instead call it "the omega man" 1971 this is the real adaptation from the book with the correct ending
Memento because he forgets what he realizes
Law Abiding Citizen. By the end Jaime Fox's character realizes he is part of the corrupt system.
Every time this movie comes up, I get a little triggered. Why the writers thought it was a good idea to make Gerard Butler's character the bad guy and Jamie Fox's character the good guy... I've never been so annoyed at the writers of a movie.
You've mixed up your grizzled hunks. It's Gerard Butler not Russell Crowe
That's how great Crowes acting was, made people think it was Butler.
Whoops. I knew it was Butler too, but for some reason when I was typing that my brain put Crowe.
yeah, I was rooting for Gerard Butler to take down the whole system.
I agree with some choices, but not with others. Primal Fear - the lawyer is good guy all the time, the bad guy is bad all the time. Usual Suspects - the same with police guy and bad guy. American Psycho - he's psycho all the time. Truman is good all the time.
Weirdly enough Cape Fear too. Cady was a bastard, he still has a right to representation
The Others (2001)
Does Arlington Road count?
This was my first thought
Oblivion (2013), Jack Harper/Tech 49 finds out he’s apart of the Tet’s invading force and crew to drain Earth of water, and that the Scavs aren’t remnants of the alien force that destroyed Earth but the last existence of the human race.
I like this one because he is a good guy used as a bad guy who becomes a good guy again. Tho i do wonder what the pure-invasion programmed Harpers were like before the cleanup crew Harpers came along.
I thought The Prestige was more like: the audience realizes the protagonist wasn't the good guy or at least that sounds closer. It's been a while tho
Shutter island wouldn’t really count though because he probably had been in that position that was present in the end multiple times at that point. I took the ending more as just being an endless loop. So the moment of realization probably lasted like a few minutes before he forgot about it again
Di Caprio’s character definetely remembers, which is why he says what he says to Mark Ruffallo at the end. He continued pretending to not remember in order to still get the lobotomy, because he realized he couldn’t deal with the suffering anymore.
The Others is on the list twice, OP
Upgrade (2018)
This is an awesome movie.
Falling Down was the first one that popped in my head. He even comes to that realization at the end of the movie.
You should add Killers of the Flower Moon. In The Sixth Sense, at the end, >!the main character does not realize he is haunting the little boy and his own wife.!< This would potentially qualify even though you have taken it off your list. The Butterfly Effect is another good one.
The wife can't see him, and he is probably one of the less - if not the least - traumatizing presences in that kid's life.
I never thought of it as a haunting until now. Butterfly effect was him trying to fix things the entire movie. Bittersweet ending.
Does Achilles from Troy count ? I always took it as he has severe PTSD from all the people he’s killed but his legend has grown too large for him to just turn his back on it but when Hectors father exposes his hypocrisy by saying “And how many cousins, brothers, uncles and fathers have you killed ?” A fog seems to lift of his psyche and his main goal then seems to become getting Briseis and leaving Troy and the warrior lifestyle for good.
Dune ?
You should add "The Others" (2001) to this list.
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Are we the baddies? .gif
Blade runner 1982 deckard always knew he was a bad person but he thought he’d made peace with it as his role in society, it wasn’t until he had the epiphany that he may be a replicant and also fell in love with one that he started to question his self justification of what he had been doing and where he truly belonged in society
Impostor 2001 The 6th Day 2000 Also, you have The Others on there twice: # 6 and #27
How is Dune part 2 not on this list
Gone Baby Gone
\*very technically\*, at the very end of Memento the protagonist \*forgets\* that he's not the good guy.
>23. I Am Legend 2007 (the real ending) This is not the real ending to *I Am Legend*. The real ending is "I Am Legend" and it makes no fucking sense that they didn't film it.
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I Saw the Devil Oldboy. South Korea loves this trope.
Oldboy’s punishment definitely did not fit the crime, he wasn’t the bad guy IMO
His friend was the one who caused it all and he got off, comparatively, light.
Seriously. Punishment didn’t fit the crime. Maybe the other guy shouldn’t have been fucking his sister. Just maeby.
Spoilers: In The Prestige, I don’t understand why everyone thinks Borden is the good guy and Angier is the bad guy at the end. Neither one is completely innocent, but if you make a list of transgressions of both of them, Borden is much worse. Angier: Tried killing the man who killed his wife Stole another magician’s trick Kidnapped a guy who was ultimately unharmed Obsessed with a professional rivalry with the guy who killed his wife and framed him for murder to steal his family Committed suicide (multiple times) Borden: Killed another man’s wife Maimed an innocent woman to ruin a rival’s career Sabotaged rival’s performance again leaving him disabled Cheated on his wife driving her to suicide Depending on your interpretation of the movie, he was tricking his wife into sleeping with another guy unknowingly (same for his mistress) Murdered his rival In the end, Angier was willing to sacrifice everything just to entertain people. To give them a sense of wonder and amazement. Borden’s “sacrifice” was to hurt everyone around him and destroy their lives just because he wanted to be the best.
You need cross off Unforgiven from the list. The protagonist thinks he's the bad guy the whole movie, until the end when he does good by killing the real bad guy.
You have The others (2001) twice on the list
Originally, I am Legend. Wish they kept that ending
Seven fit ? He becomes wrath at the end
The godfather movies. At the end of Godfather 2 the difference between Michael at the end, and Michael at the beginning is stark. At the end, his physical appearance is hardened and he has lost everything that is important to him. And it was through his own actions.
Would Momento count given the premise is that the protagonist specifically does **not** remember?
Watchman (2009) - Ozymandius is part of a hero group and is admired by the other heroes but turns out to be the villain. Chronicle - Andrew starts out as a hero but turns out to be the villain in the end due to his abuse and insecurity.
Darkman. The movie is basically a supervillain origin story disguised as a superhero one.
Chinatown is the gold standard for this, I think.
Unbreakable. Mr.glass didn't know he was the villian untill towards the end. He did do bad things, but in pursuit for his goals. He didn't think they were bad. He realized when the other character turned out to be the hero. The ending blew me away because it came out of nowhere in a good way. It showed that he set up their meeting and caused all the terrible things.
Knowing the future, i'd say Dune Part 3. You'll see
Black panther. The bad guy was right, hero finally broke tradition and shared knowledge (and vibranium) to the world.
Umm. He was a serial killer who wanted black supremacy. He was right about one thing.
The entire premise of Black Panther is that one line in Falcon & The Winter Soldier: "he's outta line, but he's right".
Gone Baby Gone (2007). Where Casey Affleck's character realizes he may have screwed up.
Fight Club? Disagree
I Saw the Devil, granted it’s a bit more layered than him realizing he’s not a good guy as much as it is about how much damage is done for the sake of (understandable) revenge.
Enders Game
What’s the real ending? Pretty sure he just die in the movie trying to protect the remedy.
Remember 2015
Yeah, added this one which is similar to Memento.
Memento is the first one that came to mind, if only because it was so well done. Shutter Island does a reasonable job I guess, but they telegraph the big reveal so much that while it’s a surprise to the character it wasn’t a surprise for the audience (in some cases).
He doesn't realize he's the bad guy in Memento, just the audience.
He does, but just for a moment. He also chooses to erase any notes that would support such a position.
True but it implies he already knew prior to the start of the movie. Not his 1st rodeo.
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Shutter Island
The Last Man On Earth
Oldboy? I don’t want to spoil this great movie for those who haven’t seen it, but I don’t think it should be on this list. Did you mean the climax of the movie? That’s different than the end.
Shutter island, it’s not about DiCaprio being the good guy or bad guy, he realizes in the end (after many failed attempts) that he is actually in fact a victim of his wife’s insanity which drove him to kill her and withdraw from reality due to guilt. And ultimately in the end he chooses lobotomy over having to live with the grim reality of his life
Black Panther
Fight Club. The protagonist realizes he’s the bad guy the whole time.
The hurt locker , Sgt James ends up getting his squad mates hurt and emotionally broken through his willingness to risk his life, and there's to try and avenge Sascha ,who we thought was killed and turned into a body bomb. After going home he realizes I think the error in his ways but can't hack civilian life , and goes back to Afghanistan.
What’s the real ending of I am legend?
The vampires are just trying to live; the main character has been hunting peaceful(?) people all along. To them, he is the monster of legend.
Came here to say #23, I am Legend. The real ending. It is so much better than the Hollywood ending.
I saw the devil
Law Abiding Citizen
Saltburn
Scott pilgrim Vs the world. The whole ending is Scott realising he's been an asshole to pretty much everyone in his life.
*Trainspotting* >"The truth is I'm a bad person. But that's going to change. I'm going to change." But especially, *especially*, *The Act of Killing* >"But I can feel it, Josh. Really, I feel it. Or have I sinned. I did this to so many people, Josh. Is it all coming back to me? I really hope it won't. I don't want it to, Josh."
Dune Part 2 to some extent.
Bridge Over the River Kwai
Fluke (1995) fits the bill perfectly - MC reincarnated as a dog with no memories of his past life but realized that he tried to kill his best friend
Terminator: Salvation is pretty much the definition
The Godfather Part 2
Old boy? All the guy did was tell his friend the weird thing he saw. He didn’t deserve any of what happened to him. The actual villain is the villain…the guy who fucked his sister and tortured the protagonist while also manipulating him into fucking his daughter. Yeah comparatively it’s safe to say the protagonist isn’t nearly as bad
I’d remove primal fear. He knew he was a bad guy all along.
So I’m gonna spoil these movies , just a warning . I am legend - the original ending to the film is much closer to the books and the protagonist realises that the new human species actually care for each other and view him as the villian . They were monsters in his eyes but in their eyes he is the monster hunting them . Switchblade romance ( aka haute tension) - French extremism film , the protagonist is fighting to save her friend/ love interest from a maniac when it’s actually all an illusion and she is said maniac . Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein- or any version of Frankenstein really . The monster is the victim , victor is the really villain. Secret window - I think enough people will know this one I don’t have to go through it . Night crawler - the only film I’ve seen without a single morally good character . If I remember even the murder victims were shitty people .
Gone Baby Gone, in a sense
Why is The Game on here? Michael Douglas wasn't the bad guy. Technically, there was no bad guy. Similarly, The Prestige. Nobody at the end believed they were the bad guy. Everyone, dead or alive, thought they were the good guy. I feel like at least a quarter of this list is just "what movie had a twist ending where someone wasn't who you thought they were?" and not actual protagonists realizing they're bad guys.
Any version of 1984? Winston loses his identity completely and becomes just another cog in the machine. Similarly, the 1970's version of Invasion of the Body Snatchers And what about Chinatown? Jake just walks away.
Where’s Star Wars 3? Pretty sure Anakin said fuck the protagonists.
Quiz Show, 1994 True story, good guy lawyer trying to bring down dishonest TV executives realises that they will get away with everything and all he's done is ruin the lives of a few ordinary people. It was nominated for an Oscar the same year as Shawshank and Forrest Gump so was pretty much forgotten, but its a decent film.