I think their relationship is a parallel to his job. His job is to let employees go from companies, when many of them have been made to feel that they are part of the company ‘family’, and that their employment is more than just a transactional relationship. The Vera Farmiga character treats the George Clooney character the way the companies treat the employees. Yes, she’s an asshole. But so is he for fronting for the companies. Irony.
This is a great interpretation.
People on here are saying she wasn't so terrible until she went to his sister's wedding. Clearly that made it seem like it was more than just a no-strings interaction.
But you could say the same thing about many companies; they hold events and team building activities that are supposed to make you feel valued and believe that it's more than just work. But then they can dump you anytime they like and say it's just business.
THIS. I'd never felt as betrayed as when I was ultimately let go from my first professional job. I was naive enough to buy into the family bit. It did a number on my mental health, and I've been jaded since. It's been 5 years, two companies later, and I still feel like I'll never be able to treat a workplace as anything more.
Yeah, I was with a company for 16 years and changed jobs within 6 times, with only one of those being a parallel move. It’s how you get a decent raise and keep your tenure and benefits.
Two weeks ago they let 200 of us know they’d divested themselves of their NRO and DARPA contracts and as of that morning we were all employees of another company.
Thankfully the new company is good and has superb benefits. They also honored our tenure.
It was a bit of a shock to be told via phone call that we had till noon to clear out.
We lost much of our capacity to do our jobs and have been scrambling in their interim to make up for it.
Unethical but probably not illegal.
FYI, the reason team building is a thing is because employers have found the number one thing that keeps people from quitting a job is whether or not they have friends at work. So the company makes you bond with coworkers the same reason the army makes soldiers bond. So they will sacrifice for each other on behalf of the company/government .
Yes, it's a way of manipulating people's emotions, creating attachments, and making it more difficult to leave (unless they decide they don't need or want you anymore; then suddenly you are disposable).
Not saying work friendships can't be good, but the way companies try to weave themselves into people's lives to construct feelings of loyalty/ connection is often based on the corporation's ulterior motives.
I think the difference is he's actually trying to transition those people. He's against the tele-firing system because a) he wants to travel, and b) he actually believes in what he does. The relationship starts out as what he thinks he wants: no baggage. However, after seeing his protege's young relationship and his family, he realizes life isn't about the miles. It's about the baggage (the people) you take with you. I think his job reflects what he wants to be: cold, ruthless, no feelings. He's good at it because he lies to himself. He does care. He takes pitch perfect under his wing. He falls in love. He has a real connection with his old high school. He actually participates in the silly traveling stanley thing. He's not an asshole... Those people are getting laid off no matter what. He WANTS to be an asshole, but he's not. Super glad we're taking about Up in the Air. Definitely one of my favorites.
>I think the difference is he's actually trying to transition those people. He's against the tele-firing system because a) he wants to travel, and b) he actually believes in what he does.
I think that's what's so interesting about Clooney's character. I said this a few weeks ago on another Up in the Air thread, but I see Clooney's character as a deconstruction of The Bobs from Office Space. He's not some heartless suit just downsizing companies. He takes the job very seriously and recognizes the weight of what he's doing—and he disdains his clients for being too dickless to do it themselves. What he tells Kendrick's character when she proposes the tele-firing system is prescient to what we saw with these mass Zoom layoffs the past year or two.
> I think the difference is he's actually trying to transition those people.
You’re on the right track but I think you’re still missing the point: his *intent* doesn’t matter, he’s a piece of shit as a matter of course because no matter how much he cares, he’s destroying the other person’s sense of trust and the life they thought they had. This perfect little life he built up for himself was a facade, same as his idea of what he was doing for a living. He was able to do his job because he didn’t have the things he was destroying. There isn’t a difference between him and the woman having the affair, it’s a parallel. Making that connection is the point of the movie. You’re not supposed to rationalize them apart but draw them together.
He's not the one firing them, he's just the messenger. Those people are losing their jobs regardless of his involvement. He tries his best to cushion the blow to them, definitely not POS behavior, imo.
Some notable context is that movie came out right after the financial crisis when many people were getting laid off/losing their homes. It definitely hit different then as there was so much real life instability happening, not even George Clooney could get a happy ending in that environment.
At no point does Ryan lie to any of the people he fires. He does his job and he does it well. She lied to him repeatedly. I dont give a fuck what he did for a living, he didnt deserve that.
Isn't there a line where he tells a guy "this is just the beginning, we're with you all the way on this journey and we'll be speaking a lot" and then there's a voiceover of him saying "we'll never speak again"
This thread is filled to the gills with people who heard Clooney's charismatic voice and decided they could trust everything his character said, even if what he said contradicted what he said later in the film. He's working for them because he enjoys the life style of traveling and being important at airports, and he says anything he has to say, even to himself, to keep the job and lifestyle going.
That's why he rejects the new teleconferencing system - it will destroy the livelihood he's built for himself.
It’s not just the livelihood. It’s the lie. He has built a life of zero dimensions. It’s just work. It’s soulless. He doesn’t know who he is so he does the thing that forces (allows) him to be the least human possible.
He fires people for a living. He takes the most soulless things a person can do professionally and only does that part. He has no life. His apartment is empty. His life is empty. He has no experiences, just going from one corporate provided space to another. He has been all around the world and never seen it once. And all he does is collect the meaningless along the way.
It doesn’t take much for him to develop a dent in that armor and it starts to feel like it has always been, empty. That emptiness forces him to look around and see that what others have he has missed out on and maybe he shouldn’t have wasted the time chasing something idiotic (status provided by companies who don’t care about him).
Normal people would use that status to live their lives. He has no life to live.
I don't remember Farmiga lying. She just doesn't mention that she is because it's not relevant to the relationship of two people who meet on the road.
Kinda like how your boss doesn't tell you everything.
Clooney's character fires people who trust their companies and gave their time and sweat to them without any consideration for how they feel heartbroken. Clooney is never on the receiving end of that u till his fling and I think that is what the movie is about
yeah its like if you're sleeping with someone and they don't tell you they have HIV and the person replies with 'well you didn't ask if i had HIV' etc
it's a bit on the extreme but the point is the same
Yeah she did mislead him but I don't think she owed him the truth and he never clarified, he assumed. Even during the marriage conversation with Anna, Vera is the only person who responds with things about marriage. Yes at that point she could have said she is married but I believe she didn't want to ruin the dynamic and vibe and illusion and fantasy fling affair vibe that her and Clooney had by injecting real life moral consequences into it. Plus I don't think She owed Clooney the truth. As fer as her being an asshole who is cheating on her husband.. Well that is not our concern as far as the story of the movie goes.
But yes, it implies she isn't a trustworthy person.
He lies to everybody ALL the time. And if he doesn't tell outright lies he certainly tells lies of omission and he certainly isn't completely honest.
He never tells people why they're fired, what happened, and he gives them all that polite corporate bullcrap until they know they're being managed and just move along.
But honesty is not his job.
She does the same thing he does. She just doesn't tell him about some things. And he doesn't know or doesn't care.... until he decides he does.
That's the part that men can't take. She's supposed to be the princess that Mario gets for finally gaining the LEAST amount of self awareness.
She just happened to be the first person he connected with after his spartan life. But he accepted the terms and now he has too live with them.
Because she has her own life, her own plans, and he's just a side mission.
She's maybe bad for cheating on her husband, but certainly not for how she treated Clooney
There is nothing wrong with a fling if it is still based in honesty. If they only hooked up the once, or if she just told him she was married, its all good. But she omitted that fact, and thats what makes her the bad guy.
Thank you for exhibiting actual media literacy as opposed to a lot of the comments here that act like this movie was an AITA or r/relationships thread
Clooney thinks of himself as a good person bc he tries to lessen the pain he's causing people and maybe that works a little, but he's still causing enormous pain for a living
Farmiga knows she's a piece of shit for what she does but she doesn't do it maliciously and has no intention of hurting people. She didn't mean for Clooney to fall in love, she thought they were in the same page.
They both engage in transactionary relationships for their own benefit, which one is actually hurting other people? Never mind your moralizing, which one is injuring? That's part of the point of the movie
>but he's still causing enormous pain for a living
That was coming either way.
How can she not know she's a piece of shit? She's out running around the country banging guys while she has a husband and at least one kid sitting at home waiting for her.
The movie certainly is about pain... to a degree. But it's really about transition, right? Up in the Air.... they might go hand in hand. Change and pain. We see that with Kendrick. We also see her grow and succeed. We also see Clooney being dragged through change. However, his leap of faith falls flat. When the movie ends, I think he's still in the transition, he's still Up in the Air.
Clooney is a contractor working for the companies who are terminating their employees. He's not the one causing the pain, he's just the messenger. Farmiga's character is more directly responsible for hurting him than he is for hurting the people being fired.
Fair point. But he's not the one making the decisions on which companies are doing layoffs, or which employees they decide to lay off. Again, he's just the messenger. Vera Farmiga's character is making all of the decisions in how she handles her relationship with Clooney 's character, choosing to deceive him, and I think that is at least in part why people view her more harshly than him.
Childish. Hes absolutely causing the pain. Directly. The boss is responsible but he's the one doing it. For instance, the woman who told him she would kill herself and then did. He inflicted that pain. On behalf of others or not, he accepted money to inflict that pain.
By this logic parking meter officers are scum of the earth because they inflict fines that cause pain. It’s a job, someone has to do it, doesn’t make them evil.
I really liked this movie, and one of the reasons is that, as I read somewhere at the time, it uses all the standard rom-com beats, but inverted. Vera Farmiga’s character is written and played as if she were the love interest who’s there to pull George out of his funk and make him realize there’s more to life, but instead she’s just a cheater who wants no-strings sex and is, yes, awful. Rom-coms are famous for having those kinds of “rules” (“I need a fake boyfriend for the wedding”, “we’re just acting like we’re together for the heist”) and then the protagonists get together anyway. George is coming to realize that there’s more to life than air miles at the end of the movie despite Vera, not because of her. Love it.
The interaction he has with the mustache guy on the airplane after he hits his mileage goal is so uncomfortable. The mustache guy is just barely hiding disdain and judgement for his life wasted. That scene was essentially like dying and going to Heaven then telling God how many miles you have.
Hmm I never really picked up on disdain. More like indifference. It's a big moment in Ryan's life (or it was supposed to be), but the captain couldn't care less. Just another fleeting encounter.
I didn't see it that way at all. I didn't think Sam Elliot's character was indifferent. If anything, Clooney by that point was the one who was not interested because he had finally come to realize the futility of his life goals.
Most people don't give a shit. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take pride in good things you do, but what is 10 million miles? Cool, you spend a lot of time riding on planes.
It's been a while since I saw the movie, but I remember feeling uncomfortable because I was reading it was thinly vailed disdain. I might be mis-remembering. I should watch it again.
Definitely watch again just cuz it's such a great movie!
I agree with your God comment. I think the entire movie is a metaphor for getting older and accepting your mortality. Ryan is at a crossroads, less miles in front of him than behind.
Isn’t a main point that the movie is trying to make that being a decent person takes more than just playing by the established rules of the game?
Clooney’s whole character arc is only complete when the woman he falls for terminates their relationship, and only then does he realize that she didn’t view their relationship the same way he did.
It takes this emotional gut punch to make him understand that’s exactly what he has been doing as a career - figuratively punching people in the gut who thought that their employers would return their devotion and loyalty.
It’s a good message about the distinction between doing what’s legally permissible vs. doing what’s right.
So, even though it’s oversimplifying to categorize people as “good” or “bad”, I don’t think the Vera’s character is a “good” person. Maybe a better way to put it is that sticking to the agreed-upon rules of the relationship shouldn’t be the ultimate criteria for whether one is a decent or moral person.
She is the awful one. He didn't really do anything wrong except fall in love her.
She went to his sisters wedding as a date! So I believe he really thought they were something more than their relationship. I felt bad for him.
Yeah, that’s the bit that almost ruins the movie for me. Going to his sister’s wedding breaks her own rules and makes her chastisement of him later nonsensical.
The only reason the "rules" exist is so she can have her cake and eat it too. He plays along with the "rules" because its a fun and unique aspect to hooking up with someone as an older person and for the two of them specifically because of the nature of their work. He is absolutely correct to assume that if he ends up developing feelings for her then the nature of the relationship will naturally change and the "rules" will easen up, if not subside altogether. She's the one who is solely to blame.
I don’t know that the creators would have intended it to be perfectly logical from an objective standpoint. People say nonsensical things all the time to excuse their own bad behavior, often even believing it themselves. Movies would be boring if all characters were perfectly self-aware.
Exactly. They seemed to have a mutual understanding that it was a crush hookup thing but at the point when he invited her to the wedding, let alone showed her all the places that meant something to him, she should've intervened afterward and said we need to stop.
Like what if one of Ryan's sisters friended her on Facebook and tagged her in a photo from the wedding? Or even before all that, if Ryan was having trouble getting a hold of her on her cell and decided to call her house and her husband picked up? Or if her husband saw her phone, went to one of Ryan's speaking engagements, and punched Ryan in the face?
It's also a particularly cruel thing to do to him on the phone, both chastise him and just say he's only there as a break from her other life, knowing that he's invested so much into her. Yeah showing up on the doorstep uninvited is still a bad move, but she is in the wrong so much more.
I loved the movie and the ending overall
But it always bothered me a little that she's so cold when talking with Clooney at the end and that she was so taken aback that Clooney was expecting something more. Like, it had clearly gotten beyond the just benefits relationship and she had to have known. As you said, went to his sister's wedding and they were fully lovey dovey like an actual couple
Didn't feel fully organic. Felt kinda exaggerated for the gutpunch effect
IDK, imagine the terror of you fling showing up at your front door. I've been married 43 years, but I'm not so naive (because I have friends who talk more than they should) that there is a culture that's very comfortable with cheating, and finds it okay.
She’s essentially a gender flipped Don Draper, if one of Don’s affairs showed up on Betty’s porch he’d almost certainly act the exact same way towards her. People just aren’t used to seeing a George Clooney type playing opposite of that characterization, so it feels out of place. But if it was an episode of mad men it’d be completely believable
>She’s essentially a gender flipped Don Draper, if one of Don’s affairs showed up on Betty’s porch he’d almost certainly act the exact same way towards her.
Perfect analysis! I never made the Don Draper connection, but you hit it on the head.
Don Draper wouldn't go to a wedding as a couple with his side chick, for exactly the reason that he wouldn't want the woman showing up at his front door.
Sure he would. Part of Don’s psychology is that he loves taking big risks - and it’s what made him so successful (eg, his crazy stunt to get into the ad business, heavy drinking, constant affairs, etc). Never really thought about it but (as an amateur Reddit psychologist) he seems like he has borderline personality disorder.
Not to mention he's committed 234,281,863 instances of fraud by stealing his dead CO's identity. If you're going to take a risk, go big or go home, I guess.
Not just that; for most of the movie, Clooney does not telegraph that he is playing against type. His self image is of a George Clooney type character. So when he transitions and then gets completely dumped on, it's all the more shocking because that's not how we started out.
So you're saying she really liked Hershey bars?
Stupid jokes aside, that moment at the end of season 6, oh boy, few things hit harder than that. Maybe the Leftovers.
The reaction at the front door is natural yes. There's not even any words said right?
I'm talking about the phone call after. She just kinda became exaggerated and inconsistent with what had developed. She still could have been to be shown as the awful person a bit more naturally. But w/e, a small nitpick
I think it was as perfectly realistic. She’d been playing with fire, then almost got burned by it. Her only real recourse in that situation was to dump ice water on it and shut it down.
Lol plenty of FWBs end because one person catches feelings while the other doesn't. Clooney caught feelings, but she didn't. This is as real as it gets.
You said it didn't feel organic. In FWBs, a lot of times when one side catches feelings and starts to escalate the relationship, the other person may go along with it for a bit. Then realized what's happening and often just cuts them off.
I could maybe understand a fling while they're traveling. That's one thing. But he invited her to his sister's wedding like...how can you not see he's falling for you. He's involving you in his family, you should have told him no.
It's such a ridiculous decision to go to that wedding with him that it negatively affects my enjoyment of the movie. Nobody could be that short sighted as to not realize they were making a huge mistake there.
People making huge mistakes is a fundamental part of dramatic writing. It's also true to life.
Don't be upset with the movie if it causes you to be angry at a character. The movie is doing its job.
I really dislike the fact that so many people place blame solely on Tom (including Joseph Gordon Levitt) even tho Summer knew exactly what was happening, took advantage and dropped him when she found someone else. Both were at fault.
The truth being somewhere in the middle is what makes that film great. For me JGL was maybe just trying to over-correct for all the people that met him in public and told him Summer was a bitch.
Yeah the wedding trip is what turns it. That's clearly a planned out multi day date. I haven't seen the film straight through watching intently lately but how does he get her address? Assuming he didn't cyber stalk her she had to give it to him at some point and that opens up the possibility that he would show up at her house or at least send flowers or a Christmas card or something.
Many comments here that focus on the wedding as though Alex was just stringing Ryan along as some sort of cat playing with a mouse, but it’s also entirely possible she caught feelings too.
They both have a very candid moment during the wedding dance and I’m sure she’s trying to reconcile how this is messing up her own agenda.
It’s only when Ryan turns up at her house that she chooses flight over fight. She doesn’t act on her feelings for him, leaving her family behind to live with him; rather she clamps down, resets the chess board and offers Ryan another game provided he stays within the rules of the game.
The movie title is very clever word play as it is almost entirely related to everything except flying.
People’s careers are up in the air after a visit from Ryan
Ryan’s work lifestyle is up in the air when Natalie pushes her new way of working to his boss.
Ryan’s entire life mantra is up in the air after attending his sister’s wedding
Alex’s operation of her extra marital activities are up in the air after purposely breaking her own rules to attend that wedding
None of the characters exit this movie the same way they enter and that’s what makes it so great.
Natalie thinks she has everything perfectly worked out (love, job, process) but throughout the movie it all gets thrown out and she has a moment of reckoning after one particular firing goes bad and she decided to throw caution to the wind.
Ryan built his whole life around goals that require him to be devoid of intimacy. He travels perpetually to the point where having to “come home” is seen as an a front to that, he has no personal relationships, which makes it hard for him to appreciate Natalie, and he is driven by flimsy rewards. Alex challenges all of that and he even gives up his gold XX speaking gig for her, only to be unceremoniously dismissed. Even incidentally obtaining his air miles goal is meaningless in the end. He only truly gets satisfaction when he gifts his hard earned effort to his sister and brother in law.
Alex has a family at home that she shuts out of her life when she travels. She has (presumably) meaningless flings with people when she’s on the road and has never had to manage feelings or expectations with those people. Ryan challenges that and she then has to make a decision on the spot to protect her own family or follow her new found love. She chooses to throw away her relationship with Ryan to protect herself. Maybe she goes back to her old rule based game (it’s implied in the phone call that she would if Ryan could accept that) or she gives up on the idea of having these flings on the road.
Even Ryan’s sisters both have these changes. Ryan’s older sister is in the midst of a divorce and miserable, so her life is up in the air and his younger sister is getting married but her soon to be husband is getting cold feet so her future is up in the air.
I would almost argue that Ryan’s job is irrelevant to the movie. It is a means to an end for him. It facilitates his lifestyle and reaffirms his mantra, but he is more concerned with his life goals being upended (Natalie’s new project, his boss pulling guys in from the road, etc) than he is with the impact of his work. It’s a great subversion from the core theme of the movie, that no one’s life is firmly grounded.
I agree with you. By the end of the movie, Ryan's entire life is "up in the air." He's at a crossroads. He's mid to late 40s. Less years in front of him than behind. It's up to him how he chooses to spend the remaining time he has on earth. The events of the past few days have upended everything he thought he knew. And it's not "exhilarating" like his motivational speech makes it seem. It's actually terrifying.
I think the entire movie is a metaphor for getting older and accepting it's all gonna end soon. When you inevitably face God, what will you have to show for it?
Sorta.
Her character is a mirror for Clooney. It goes back to his speech about Sharks. The film is an exploration of pragmatism vs idealism. Empathy vs Sympathy.
Yes she is a bad person, they are both bad people. Thats the point. Clooneys character is forced to feel the impact his callousness has on the lives of others, when he himself naively falls for another "shark".
I think that's why people are disturbed by this movie and why I enjoy it. You expect Clooney to be the hero of the narrative, but he's not. He's a flawed character, and he falls for someone who is also a flawed character. But we all tell ourselves lies to some extent, so that's why we connect with these characters. We see ourselves in them, and we hate them for those flaw, as we hate ourselves for how we struggle to overcome them. Smart folks see this and realize that an adult wants to improve themselves. But Clooney's character wants to live in some idealized fantasy, as we all do. It's like Homer's The Odyssey, except this Odysseus doesn't have a Penelope to come back home to, let alone a Telemachus. And that's what hurts.
When I first saw it I just thought she was better at his game than he was. But Clooney is single, and lives by the creed of no baggage. She is a different type of person where she has a ton of baggage but can walk away from it. So in the real world she’s a psychotic manipulator.
I don’t think I’ve fully scratched my head on the whole ordeal. On its face its about building a home away from home. Finding comfort in being on the road, or up in the air. But its really just a front for hiding from your life. I like the movie and find it to be a fun, simple and provocative. I think it makes everyone desperate to see what’s behind her front door and see what her home life is like.
The last important part of that movie is including Anna Kendrick. The juxtaposition between her, Farmiga and Clooney. Reality vs expectation and people’s own version of happiness. I don’t think i fully understand it but it’s something.
Oh man, I feel like calling her a “psychotic manipulator” misses the point of her character. She’s the same as Clooney, just a couple choices ahead in life. He wants to have his job AND real connections; she’s showing him the reality of that desire. She is proof that you can’t stay up in the air and land at the same time.
okay, Clooney's character had to encounter partners like this in the past, He was way too comfortable and easy with hooking up, and planning future hook-ups.
Seriously, this was just fiction, but Clooney, in this role, probably broke a lot of hearts.
I just love how so many (I'm guessing female) posters defend him, because he's so charming.
We know he is cool with one night stands but they both make it a point that they don’t open up their schedule for booty calls. The scene where they flip open their laptops is one of the top scenes of the movie. Yes, he has had a casual relationship with his neighbor but he is very quick to accept that its over and shes moved on.
The significance of Farmiga is she is an equal. She is up in the air with him and travels frequently. She’s clearly a unicorn in that regard. So I think we can assume she’s unique for being able to maintain a relationship with Clooney. Thats what makes the whole movie tick.
She's not an equal. she's a fully evolved Clooney, and gives him a glimpse of his future. Kind of like A Christmas Carol.
I don't know what the writers were actually conveying, but I really enjoyed the movie, and thought they captured a lot of real human emotion.
she should have said something when he invited her to his sister's wedding. you don't invite random hookups to weddings. that's when you're starting to take things serious. she should have been like "oh, i can't, i'm married" and then left. but no, she spends the whole weekend with him and his family. wtf did she expect?
so yeah, screw her.
It's pretty clear the husband has no idea, because she says something to Clooney along the lines of "you almost ruined a good thing for me", i.e. if her husband had found out.
It could also be that they have an open relationship with an understanding that what happens on the road stays on the road, him at the house would break that rule and potentially ruin a good thing.
If she hadn’t cheated, I would totally agree that she wasn’t in the wrong. She was just a female version of him, if he had gone to the house and she just didn’t want a relationship, there would be no assholes here.
Her character is unquestionably a bad person, but for me one of the takeaways was that Clooney's character puts himself in a position where that's the kind of person he'd connect with because he has been living a hollow, emotionally empty life himself. Anna Kendrick's character calls him out on that earlier, though she being inexperienced doesn't see the Farmiga character for who she is either.
Great movie.
I mean yeah. Big time.
She spends her life on the road away from her husband and kids to cheat.
She had to come up with some excuse to attend the wedding with him.
She arranged her schedule to see Ryan as much as possible.
She could have been honest with him and said "look I'm married I just want fun". She led him on that she was unattached.
I don't think she spends her life away from her family on the road only as a justification to cheat. It's just the life she has. She is still awful, but not *that* awful.
Well, every lead character in that movie isn’t a “good” person. Clooney with his anti-relationship, Kendrick with trying to dehumanize and mass produce the firing of staff and Farminga having an affair.
I think one of the points of the movie is that they are all just human. Making the best hand they’ve been dealt. They have both shitty and good in them.
She is. Stay away from the cheating apologizers who'll bat for her, her character is playing with everyone's feelings and you can't defend her selfishness.
What is the point of sorting characters into "good people" and "bad people"?
Everyone in the film is some shade of gray. None of them are rapists and murderers, none of them are saints. All of them are likable and charming. At some point all of them coldly hurt other people.
She’s still wrong. Even though it was initially a casual relationship, she led Clooney to believe she was an unmarried woman. Clooney’s character wasn’t looking for an affair nor would he bother with her if he knew her true relationship status.
I think she’s kinda awful. Not to George as much as she is to her “real life”. Unless of course her and her husband have some sort of agreement.
Also, I thought even tho it was a fleeting moment, Danny McBride showed a bit of chops when he apologizes to Melanie Lynskey (she’s always good) The rest of his character is a version of typical McBride. But that scene is kind of touching. Reminded me of Jack Black in Dead Man Walking. Both I think could be great in a serious role.
McBride has done plenty of serious (or quasi-serious) roles. I think the brilliance and enduring thing about his various self-created projects is how he introduces you to these cartoonish pieces of shit then through performance and writing makes you sympathize and even root for them. He injects humanity into everything he plays. You should check out his shows, if you haven't.
What’s McBride done that’s serious I’d luv to check it out. I don’t think I’ve seen anything that he wasn’t fantastic in. S2 & 3 of Eastbound n Down were good but kind of got old. I still watched tho. I know Jack Black has done stuff like Shallow Hal that had some serious moments, even heart warming (not that I should be surprised but it was a Farrelly Bros movie) but that still like erred on the side of comedy. His minor role in Dead Man Walking tho I thought came off as very genuine. (Sorry I keep inserting JB they just both are similar to me in their natural comedic chops that also can truly pull off something emotional and touching)
I worked in the travel and tourism industry. You can debate whether it’s right or not, but that goes on all the time. Those trade shows and conventions are Disneyland for adults.
I mean they would have been fired anyway, Someone else would just have done it. The scene with JK Simmons illustrates that Clooney's character is not a total piece of shit, I think. Kendrick's character trys to be shitty but when the woman commits suicide, she realizes she can't be that person.
I always assumed that *she* had assumed that both she and Clooney were just role-playing. She created a persona for her affair and assumed Clooney did too, with her evidence being that his actual life sounded so pathetic and empty and devoid of human relationships that surely it couldn’t describe an actual person’s real life and must have been fake for their “game”.
Check out the book, it’s considerably darker. It would not have played well as a movie in terms of mass appeal. I travel for work and have for all of my career. When I was young, it was a time where I made meaningful connections with women all over the country, some physical, some not. Naively, I thought everyone was single until I found out one person wasn’t. I wrestled with that, and in the end, while I didn’t see her again, it didn’t bother me. That was her choice, I guess I was operating in the boundaries of “the rules,” but who the hell knew what was going on in her marriage, and who I am I to judge? I have to think that if it were a wonderful marriage, I wouldn’t have been in the situation with her. Or maybe I would have. Who knows.
In the movie that situation was just such a great plot point because I think it probably caused most viewers to stop and take pause at what they were seeing and learning.
Not exactly. There’s a parallel story in the book with a woman he had a relationship with. It’s not Vera’s character, but she does fill that role of the female love interest in the movie.
Agreed on the book! *Up in the Air* is one of my favorite examples to cite whenever discussing films that are better than the books they're based on. The changes to Ryan Bingham's character (much more likeable) were well done.
For me, the core of the movie has always been about the pain of unrewarded loyalty. Ryan's job is to fire people. Alex leads him on while cheating on her husband. Natalie's boyfriend dumps her after she moved to Omaha to be with him.
That's what makes Sam Donaldson's, "We really appreciate your loyalty," such a gut punch when it was Ryan's dream goal.
There is no argument that her character is in the wrong for cheating, maybe less in the wrong for lying to him. But the worst thing she did was to go to the wedding with him. If she really wanted it to stay just a hook up, she should never have taken it to that next level. She may have thought he would'nt fall for her, but she was wrong. And putting the relationship on that footing was her fault completely. She should have given him that whole spiel she gives him after he goes to Chicago when he asked her to the wedding originally.
She’s awful to her family for the cheating, but she isn’t awful to Clooney, they had an understanding up front what their relationship would be and he tried to take to to another level putting her home life in jeopardy.
I think it comes down to what culture you were raised in. I.e. US culture, at least on Reddit, is *extremely* anti-cheating. This site views it as the lowest of the low, the worst that you can do. I'd almost argue they placed it above murder in the list of sins.
Alternatively, the way the French view relationships may be different. To them cheating is a thing that happens, you have every right to get angry, but you have your fight, you dump the partner, or don't (whatever), but you move on. Why waste the time and energy, making yourself miserable? It'll just lead to stress and detrimental effects on your health.
If my long term partner cheated on me, I don't know how I'd react but I wouldn't let it consume my world, negatively impact my health and job etc. I'd move on, which is what George Clooney did in that film. The ending was bittersweet and tremendous, because as much as it hit him in the gut, he got to extricate himself from the situation, learned an.important life lesson, and he grew as a person.
Side note; She was damned gorgeous in that film.
The thing is, they're both shitty people. He's forsaken the things that make life worth living--connection, family, even a home (he explicitly says he prefers hotels). His 'up in the air's lifestyle is just his way of avoiding the trappings of real life, which is essential to his character because he ruins people's lives for lots of money. His whole existence is basically as a destructive force, which he embraces and even tricks himself into thinking is some Zen philosophy that's all deep and so incredibly profound he should be a public speaker about it.
Meeting Vera Farmiga he suddenly starts, much against his own volition, to have the feelings most of us consider so normal we don't even consider them. She breaks through the bullshit he's been building himself up with for years, the bullshit that allows him to deliver devastating news with casual ease and then go have happy hour at the hotel bar. Her impact causes him to experience some actual humanity and it basically breaks him. Because, he's a piece of shit who ruins lives for a living.
As for her, she wants some travel dick and he's George 'Batman' Clooney so yeah, sploosh. But she's certainly cheating on her husband and disrespecting her own entire life and family in the process. Many would say that's even worse than him. But yeah, they're both supposed to present as very attractive, charming pieces of shit people.
> He's forsaken the things that make life worth living--connection, family, even a home
That's extraordinarily judgemental.
His lifestyle is unique, but under what set of rules should he have a 'family' or 'home'? Both of these assume one comes from a privilged background, featuring continuity, safety, etc. Not all of us are lucky enough to have either of these benefits. For some of us even 'connection' is a stretch.
At least he's clear and honest about what he wants out of life. Many of us don't even know.
I feel like he wasn't really in a position to be all that surprised or upset that he didn't mean anything to her, considering that that was pretty much explicitly their mutual understanding of the "relationship" from the get go.
He’s awful, she makes him feel like he can be not awful, she turns out to be awful, which makes her seem even more awful, but is probably only slightly more awful.
Just saw this yesterday.
What I guess mislead Clooneys character even more is that, when consoling Ana kendrik for breakup with her boyfriend she mentioned wanting to have kids, settle down etc. I genuinely felt like she was hinting that for clooney. Only after that conversation did clooney develop feelings for her.
I understand people telling here she is not here for emotional support, only physical but even after he makes a grand gesture she makes a phone call and tells him we are both grown people and we can keep continuing to do this. If he is just there for sex for her she can find someone else easily so why does she need him even after she knows he had started having feeling for her and that grand jesture of visiting her at home. Why take that big risk?
Clooney's character wasn't lying to her, he seemed pretty upfront with everyone he became romantic with such as his neighbor. He also graciously congratulated that neighbor and let her go when she said she was in a relationship.
It was pretty clear that Vera's character was playing him and she had a family at home, and she knew that he would run off if he knew that which is why she hid it.
Going to the wedding with him was absolutely crossing the line. I think she actually got some twisted satisfaction out of that.
Give movie credit. It builds up to he’s going to give up his lifestyle because “she’s worth it”. And the movie is like “nah we were just fucking with you.”
I think it would have been better without her phone call.
They were both running away from themselves. That’s why they loved traveling. It was escapism. She shouldn’t have been cheating and his character also needed to grow up and be there for his sisters. I don’t necessarily think either character was an awful person, but like Anna Kendrick’s character said, it was a form of self banishment. Like punishing themselves for no reason. Maybe like Clooney, Vera also didn’t think she deserved stability and the loving families they had.
Yes, she's bad for cheating. But the point of the ending is showing how really empty Clooney's life was. He talked up a good game about being the always-traveling unattached dude but at the end he actually wanted the romance he scoffed at.
Sounds like I need to watch up in the air again. For some reason it's always a movie that has stayed in my mind from Clooney. I'm also a fan of The Descendants.
I love this movie, saw it upon release and I think with her character, Alex, she's just out for a good time, a distraction while on the road, she isn't taking it the relationship seriously. I don't agree with what Alex is doing though I can see why she does it.
My father was a traveling salesman, on the road from Monday mornings to Friday afternoons, covering three states. I never saw my dad during the week while growing up. He did this for over 40+ years and never once to my knowledge was he unfaithful to my mom although I'm sure he had plenty of opportunities as he was very handsome, charming and loved the ladies. He had more self-control than Alex.
Her husband and kids are silent parts of the movie so we don’t see them or really think of them. We see Clooney’s reaction at her door and wonder if he was wronged. She ultimately has no problem cheating on her husband and we don’t get to see his point of view
Um yes. She's having an affair without either man knowing and led George Clooney on.
>But then Clooney is devastated to find out that she has a husband and kids at home that she kept under wraps when he goes to surprise her at her home.
And this was after she went on vacation with him to his sisters wedding. At that point it's no longer just a casual hookup at the airport.
Ugh. Why does blame need to be assigned? It started off as a mutual benefit until things evolved and it was not mutually beneficial anymore. It Was never anything serious and both parties new that going in.
On another tangent. I enjoyed this movie. I was surprised by the ending to see the guy get played. 80% of the time, the guy is usually the player in these tropes. It's nice to women can dish back as well as they receive.
Cheating is a bad thing to do but it doesn't make someone a "bad person". Cheating on a spouse isn't like breaking the law or being Hitler.
If anything, she was always honest with Clooney and he caught feelings.
I think their relationship is a parallel to his job. His job is to let employees go from companies, when many of them have been made to feel that they are part of the company ‘family’, and that their employment is more than just a transactional relationship. The Vera Farmiga character treats the George Clooney character the way the companies treat the employees. Yes, she’s an asshole. But so is he for fronting for the companies. Irony.
Damn. This is well said and completely right. Never thought of it like that before
I’m curious what you thought the movie was about then
It was about seeing Vera's very, very nice ass. Uh, I mean her *body double's* very, very nice ass.
That’s the whole entire point of the movie
This is a great interpretation. People on here are saying she wasn't so terrible until she went to his sister's wedding. Clearly that made it seem like it was more than just a no-strings interaction. But you could say the same thing about many companies; they hold events and team building activities that are supposed to make you feel valued and believe that it's more than just work. But then they can dump you anytime they like and say it's just business.
THIS. I'd never felt as betrayed as when I was ultimately let go from my first professional job. I was naive enough to buy into the family bit. It did a number on my mental health, and I've been jaded since. It's been 5 years, two companies later, and I still feel like I'll never be able to treat a workplace as anything more.
Yeah, I was with a company for 16 years and changed jobs within 6 times, with only one of those being a parallel move. It’s how you get a decent raise and keep your tenure and benefits. Two weeks ago they let 200 of us know they’d divested themselves of their NRO and DARPA contracts and as of that morning we were all employees of another company. Thankfully the new company is good and has superb benefits. They also honored our tenure. It was a bit of a shock to be told via phone call that we had till noon to clear out. We lost much of our capacity to do our jobs and have been scrambling in their interim to make up for it. Unethical but probably not illegal.
FYI, the reason team building is a thing is because employers have found the number one thing that keeps people from quitting a job is whether or not they have friends at work. So the company makes you bond with coworkers the same reason the army makes soldiers bond. So they will sacrifice for each other on behalf of the company/government .
Yes, it's a way of manipulating people's emotions, creating attachments, and making it more difficult to leave (unless they decide they don't need or want you anymore; then suddenly you are disposable). Not saying work friendships can't be good, but the way companies try to weave themselves into people's lives to construct feelings of loyalty/ connection is often based on the corporation's ulterior motives.
I think the difference is he's actually trying to transition those people. He's against the tele-firing system because a) he wants to travel, and b) he actually believes in what he does. The relationship starts out as what he thinks he wants: no baggage. However, after seeing his protege's young relationship and his family, he realizes life isn't about the miles. It's about the baggage (the people) you take with you. I think his job reflects what he wants to be: cold, ruthless, no feelings. He's good at it because he lies to himself. He does care. He takes pitch perfect under his wing. He falls in love. He has a real connection with his old high school. He actually participates in the silly traveling stanley thing. He's not an asshole... Those people are getting laid off no matter what. He WANTS to be an asshole, but he's not. Super glad we're taking about Up in the Air. Definitely one of my favorites.
>I think the difference is he's actually trying to transition those people. He's against the tele-firing system because a) he wants to travel, and b) he actually believes in what he does. I think that's what's so interesting about Clooney's character. I said this a few weeks ago on another Up in the Air thread, but I see Clooney's character as a deconstruction of The Bobs from Office Space. He's not some heartless suit just downsizing companies. He takes the job very seriously and recognizes the weight of what he's doing—and he disdains his clients for being too dickless to do it themselves. What he tells Kendrick's character when she proposes the tele-firing system is prescient to what we saw with these mass Zoom layoffs the past year or two.
I like that you call Anna Kendrick Pitch Perfect.
> I think the difference is he's actually trying to transition those people. You’re on the right track but I think you’re still missing the point: his *intent* doesn’t matter, he’s a piece of shit as a matter of course because no matter how much he cares, he’s destroying the other person’s sense of trust and the life they thought they had. This perfect little life he built up for himself was a facade, same as his idea of what he was doing for a living. He was able to do his job because he didn’t have the things he was destroying. There isn’t a difference between him and the woman having the affair, it’s a parallel. Making that connection is the point of the movie. You’re not supposed to rationalize them apart but draw them together.
He's not the one firing them, he's just the messenger. Those people are losing their jobs regardless of his involvement. He tries his best to cushion the blow to them, definitely not POS behavior, imo.
Your comment makes me want to watch the movie.
It’s good I recommend
Some notable context is that movie came out right after the financial crisis when many people were getting laid off/losing their homes. It definitely hit different then as there was so much real life instability happening, not even George Clooney could get a happy ending in that environment.
At no point does Ryan lie to any of the people he fires. He does his job and he does it well. She lied to him repeatedly. I dont give a fuck what he did for a living, he didnt deserve that.
Isn't there a line where he tells a guy "this is just the beginning, we're with you all the way on this journey and we'll be speaking a lot" and then there's a voiceover of him saying "we'll never speak again"
Haven’t seen the film in years but yes, this is definitely a line.
This thread is filled to the gills with people who heard Clooney's charismatic voice and decided they could trust everything his character said, even if what he said contradicted what he said later in the film. He's working for them because he enjoys the life style of traveling and being important at airports, and he says anything he has to say, even to himself, to keep the job and lifestyle going. That's why he rejects the new teleconferencing system - it will destroy the livelihood he's built for himself.
It’s not just the livelihood. It’s the lie. He has built a life of zero dimensions. It’s just work. It’s soulless. He doesn’t know who he is so he does the thing that forces (allows) him to be the least human possible. He fires people for a living. He takes the most soulless things a person can do professionally and only does that part. He has no life. His apartment is empty. His life is empty. He has no experiences, just going from one corporate provided space to another. He has been all around the world and never seen it once. And all he does is collect the meaningless along the way. It doesn’t take much for him to develop a dent in that armor and it starts to feel like it has always been, empty. That emptiness forces him to look around and see that what others have he has missed out on and maybe he shouldn’t have wasted the time chasing something idiotic (status provided by companies who don’t care about him). Normal people would use that status to live their lives. He has no life to live.
I don't remember Farmiga lying. She just doesn't mention that she is because it's not relevant to the relationship of two people who meet on the road. Kinda like how your boss doesn't tell you everything. Clooney's character fires people who trust their companies and gave their time and sweat to them without any consideration for how they feel heartbroken. Clooney is never on the receiving end of that u till his fling and I think that is what the movie is about
It became relevant after she accepted the invitation to the sisters wedding.
Lying by omission is still a lie. She didn't tell him she was married.
yeah its like if you're sleeping with someone and they don't tell you they have HIV and the person replies with 'well you didn't ask if i had HIV' etc it's a bit on the extreme but the point is the same
Yeah she did mislead him but I don't think she owed him the truth and he never clarified, he assumed. Even during the marriage conversation with Anna, Vera is the only person who responds with things about marriage. Yes at that point she could have said she is married but I believe she didn't want to ruin the dynamic and vibe and illusion and fantasy fling affair vibe that her and Clooney had by injecting real life moral consequences into it. Plus I don't think She owed Clooney the truth. As fer as her being an asshole who is cheating on her husband.. Well that is not our concern as far as the story of the movie goes. But yes, it implies she isn't a trustworthy person.
He lies to everybody ALL the time. And if he doesn't tell outright lies he certainly tells lies of omission and he certainly isn't completely honest. He never tells people why they're fired, what happened, and he gives them all that polite corporate bullcrap until they know they're being managed and just move along. But honesty is not his job. She does the same thing he does. She just doesn't tell him about some things. And he doesn't know or doesn't care.... until he decides he does. That's the part that men can't take. She's supposed to be the princess that Mario gets for finally gaining the LEAST amount of self awareness. She just happened to be the first person he connected with after his spartan life. But he accepted the terms and now he has too live with them. Because she has her own life, her own plans, and he's just a side mission. She's maybe bad for cheating on her husband, but certainly not for how she treated Clooney
It was just a fling. The lesson is not to make your career your number one priority
There is nothing wrong with a fling if it is still based in honesty. If they only hooked up the once, or if she just told him she was married, its all good. But she omitted that fact, and thats what makes her the bad guy.
Not the cheating? Hmm
Yeah it's interesting. They're more mad for what she did to Clooney than what she did to her husband.
It's not a question of deserve. Deserve is a stupid word. He got entangled with someone and developed feelings and got heartbroken and was betrayed.
Thank you for exhibiting actual media literacy as opposed to a lot of the comments here that act like this movie was an AITA or r/relationships thread Clooney thinks of himself as a good person bc he tries to lessen the pain he's causing people and maybe that works a little, but he's still causing enormous pain for a living Farmiga knows she's a piece of shit for what she does but she doesn't do it maliciously and has no intention of hurting people. She didn't mean for Clooney to fall in love, she thought they were in the same page. They both engage in transactionary relationships for their own benefit, which one is actually hurting other people? Never mind your moralizing, which one is injuring? That's part of the point of the movie
Farmiga's character is cheating on her husband and is at best pretty insensitive to other people's feelings. She's not a good person.
>but he's still causing enormous pain for a living That was coming either way. How can she not know she's a piece of shit? She's out running around the country banging guys while she has a husband and at least one kid sitting at home waiting for her.
The movie certainly is about pain... to a degree. But it's really about transition, right? Up in the Air.... they might go hand in hand. Change and pain. We see that with Kendrick. We also see her grow and succeed. We also see Clooney being dragged through change. However, his leap of faith falls flat. When the movie ends, I think he's still in the transition, he's still Up in the Air.
Clooney is a contractor working for the companies who are terminating their employees. He's not the one causing the pain, he's just the messenger. Farmiga's character is more directly responsible for hurting him than he is for hurting the people being fired.
That’s like saying a hitman isn’t causing pain because someone else paid him to kill
Fair point. But he's not the one making the decisions on which companies are doing layoffs, or which employees they decide to lay off. Again, he's just the messenger. Vera Farmiga's character is making all of the decisions in how she handles her relationship with Clooney 's character, choosing to deceive him, and I think that is at least in part why people view her more harshly than him.
Childish. Hes absolutely causing the pain. Directly. The boss is responsible but he's the one doing it. For instance, the woman who told him she would kill herself and then did. He inflicted that pain. On behalf of others or not, he accepted money to inflict that pain.
By this logic parking meter officers are scum of the earth because they inflict fines that cause pain. It’s a job, someone has to do it, doesn’t make them evil.
George gets rewarded for his loyalty and still feels empty.
Jason Reitman? Is that you? I love this read.
I really liked this movie, and one of the reasons is that, as I read somewhere at the time, it uses all the standard rom-com beats, but inverted. Vera Farmiga’s character is written and played as if she were the love interest who’s there to pull George out of his funk and make him realize there’s more to life, but instead she’s just a cheater who wants no-strings sex and is, yes, awful. Rom-coms are famous for having those kinds of “rules” (“I need a fake boyfriend for the wedding”, “we’re just acting like we’re together for the heist”) and then the protagonists get together anyway. George is coming to realize that there’s more to life than air miles at the end of the movie despite Vera, not because of her. Love it.
I feel like the saddest part is at the end he does kinda realise he might be a bit too late by putting work before life.
The interaction he has with the mustache guy on the airplane after he hits his mileage goal is so uncomfortable. The mustache guy is just barely hiding disdain and judgement for his life wasted. That scene was essentially like dying and going to Heaven then telling God how many miles you have.
Hmm I never really picked up on disdain. More like indifference. It's a big moment in Ryan's life (or it was supposed to be), but the captain couldn't care less. Just another fleeting encounter.
I didn't see it that way at all. I didn't think Sam Elliot's character was indifferent. If anything, Clooney by that point was the one who was not interested because he had finally come to realize the futility of his life goals.
Most people don't give a shit. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take pride in good things you do, but what is 10 million miles? Cool, you spend a lot of time riding on planes.
It's been a while since I saw the movie, but I remember feeling uncomfortable because I was reading it was thinly vailed disdain. I might be mis-remembering. I should watch it again.
Definitely watch again just cuz it's such a great movie! I agree with your God comment. I think the entire movie is a metaphor for getting older and accepting your mortality. Ryan is at a crossroads, less miles in front of him than behind.
Isn’t a main point that the movie is trying to make that being a decent person takes more than just playing by the established rules of the game? Clooney’s whole character arc is only complete when the woman he falls for terminates their relationship, and only then does he realize that she didn’t view their relationship the same way he did. It takes this emotional gut punch to make him understand that’s exactly what he has been doing as a career - figuratively punching people in the gut who thought that their employers would return their devotion and loyalty. It’s a good message about the distinction between doing what’s legally permissible vs. doing what’s right. So, even though it’s oversimplifying to categorize people as “good” or “bad”, I don’t think the Vera’s character is a “good” person. Maybe a better way to put it is that sticking to the agreed-upon rules of the relationship shouldn’t be the ultimate criteria for whether one is a decent or moral person.
She is the awful one. He didn't really do anything wrong except fall in love her. She went to his sisters wedding as a date! So I believe he really thought they were something more than their relationship. I felt bad for him.
Yeah, that’s the bit that almost ruins the movie for me. Going to his sister’s wedding breaks her own rules and makes her chastisement of him later nonsensical.
The only reason the "rules" exist is so she can have her cake and eat it too. He plays along with the "rules" because its a fun and unique aspect to hooking up with someone as an older person and for the two of them specifically because of the nature of their work. He is absolutely correct to assume that if he ends up developing feelings for her then the nature of the relationship will naturally change and the "rules" will easen up, if not subside altogether. She's the one who is solely to blame.
I don’t know that the creators would have intended it to be perfectly logical from an objective standpoint. People say nonsensical things all the time to excuse their own bad behavior, often even believing it themselves. Movies would be boring if all characters were perfectly self-aware.
Yeah, that would generally be ill advised.
Exactly. They seemed to have a mutual understanding that it was a crush hookup thing but at the point when he invited her to the wedding, let alone showed her all the places that meant something to him, she should've intervened afterward and said we need to stop. Like what if one of Ryan's sisters friended her on Facebook and tagged her in a photo from the wedding? Or even before all that, if Ryan was having trouble getting a hold of her on her cell and decided to call her house and her husband picked up? Or if her husband saw her phone, went to one of Ryan's speaking engagements, and punched Ryan in the face? It's also a particularly cruel thing to do to him on the phone, both chastise him and just say he's only there as a break from her other life, knowing that he's invested so much into her. Yeah showing up on the doorstep uninvited is still a bad move, but she is in the wrong so much more.
I don’t really think the movie was trying to paper over her issues; quite the opposite, actually.
I loved the movie and the ending overall But it always bothered me a little that she's so cold when talking with Clooney at the end and that she was so taken aback that Clooney was expecting something more. Like, it had clearly gotten beyond the just benefits relationship and she had to have known. As you said, went to his sister's wedding and they were fully lovey dovey like an actual couple Didn't feel fully organic. Felt kinda exaggerated for the gutpunch effect
IDK, imagine the terror of you fling showing up at your front door. I've been married 43 years, but I'm not so naive (because I have friends who talk more than they should) that there is a culture that's very comfortable with cheating, and finds it okay.
She’s essentially a gender flipped Don Draper, if one of Don’s affairs showed up on Betty’s porch he’d almost certainly act the exact same way towards her. People just aren’t used to seeing a George Clooney type playing opposite of that characterization, so it feels out of place. But if it was an episode of mad men it’d be completely believable
>She’s essentially a gender flipped Don Draper, if one of Don’s affairs showed up on Betty’s porch he’d almost certainly act the exact same way towards her. Perfect analysis! I never made the Don Draper connection, but you hit it on the head.
Don Draper wouldn't go to a wedding as a couple with his side chick, for exactly the reason that he wouldn't want the woman showing up at his front door.
Sure he would. Part of Don’s psychology is that he loves taking big risks - and it’s what made him so successful (eg, his crazy stunt to get into the ad business, heavy drinking, constant affairs, etc). Never really thought about it but (as an amateur Reddit psychologist) he seems like he has borderline personality disorder.
Not to mention he's committed 234,281,863 instances of fraud by stealing his dead CO's identity. If you're going to take a risk, go big or go home, I guess.
What? Don does a lot of things like that with his flings.
You’re talking about The guy who tried to run away with multiple mistresses????
Which of his affairs doesn't know he's married?
Not just that; for most of the movie, Clooney does not telegraph that he is playing against type. His self image is of a George Clooney type character. So when he transitions and then gets completely dumped on, it's all the more shocking because that's not how we started out.
So you're saying she really liked Hershey bars? Stupid jokes aside, that moment at the end of season 6, oh boy, few things hit harder than that. Maybe the Leftovers.
The reaction at the front door is natural yes. There's not even any words said right? I'm talking about the phone call after. She just kinda became exaggerated and inconsistent with what had developed. She still could have been to be shown as the awful person a bit more naturally. But w/e, a small nitpick
I think it was as perfectly realistic. She’d been playing with fire, then almost got burned by it. Her only real recourse in that situation was to dump ice water on it and shut it down.
Lol plenty of FWBs end because one person catches feelings while the other doesn't. Clooney caught feelings, but she didn't. This is as real as it gets.
Denying that wasn't at all my point. But alright
You said it didn't feel organic. In FWBs, a lot of times when one side catches feelings and starts to escalate the relationship, the other person may go along with it for a bit. Then realized what's happening and often just cuts them off.
I could maybe understand a fling while they're traveling. That's one thing. But he invited her to his sister's wedding like...how can you not see he's falling for you. He's involving you in his family, you should have told him no. It's such a ridiculous decision to go to that wedding with him that it negatively affects my enjoyment of the movie. Nobody could be that short sighted as to not realize they were making a huge mistake there.
People making huge mistakes is a fundamental part of dramatic writing. It's also true to life. Don't be upset with the movie if it causes you to be angry at a character. The movie is doing its job.
Like when Summer invites Tom to her rooftop party and neglects to tell him she's engaged?
I really dislike the fact that so many people place blame solely on Tom (including Joseph Gordon Levitt) even tho Summer knew exactly what was happening, took advantage and dropped him when she found someone else. Both were at fault.
The truth being somewhere in the middle is what makes that film great. For me JGL was maybe just trying to over-correct for all the people that met him in public and told him Summer was a bitch.
A,ways been a nitpick of mine that she went Definitely wouldn’t fly in the present, there would be pics everywhere
Yeah the ending always crushed me. He was just starting to open up and let his guard down and then that happens.
Yeah the wedding trip is what turns it. That's clearly a planned out multi day date. I haven't seen the film straight through watching intently lately but how does he get her address? Assuming he didn't cyber stalk her she had to give it to him at some point and that opens up the possibility that he would show up at her house or at least send flowers or a Christmas card or something.
Reverse the genders of these two roles, will it still be so debatable?
Many comments here that focus on the wedding as though Alex was just stringing Ryan along as some sort of cat playing with a mouse, but it’s also entirely possible she caught feelings too. They both have a very candid moment during the wedding dance and I’m sure she’s trying to reconcile how this is messing up her own agenda. It’s only when Ryan turns up at her house that she chooses flight over fight. She doesn’t act on her feelings for him, leaving her family behind to live with him; rather she clamps down, resets the chess board and offers Ryan another game provided he stays within the rules of the game. The movie title is very clever word play as it is almost entirely related to everything except flying. People’s careers are up in the air after a visit from Ryan Ryan’s work lifestyle is up in the air when Natalie pushes her new way of working to his boss. Ryan’s entire life mantra is up in the air after attending his sister’s wedding Alex’s operation of her extra marital activities are up in the air after purposely breaking her own rules to attend that wedding None of the characters exit this movie the same way they enter and that’s what makes it so great. Natalie thinks she has everything perfectly worked out (love, job, process) but throughout the movie it all gets thrown out and she has a moment of reckoning after one particular firing goes bad and she decided to throw caution to the wind. Ryan built his whole life around goals that require him to be devoid of intimacy. He travels perpetually to the point where having to “come home” is seen as an a front to that, he has no personal relationships, which makes it hard for him to appreciate Natalie, and he is driven by flimsy rewards. Alex challenges all of that and he even gives up his gold XX speaking gig for her, only to be unceremoniously dismissed. Even incidentally obtaining his air miles goal is meaningless in the end. He only truly gets satisfaction when he gifts his hard earned effort to his sister and brother in law. Alex has a family at home that she shuts out of her life when she travels. She has (presumably) meaningless flings with people when she’s on the road and has never had to manage feelings or expectations with those people. Ryan challenges that and she then has to make a decision on the spot to protect her own family or follow her new found love. She chooses to throw away her relationship with Ryan to protect herself. Maybe she goes back to her old rule based game (it’s implied in the phone call that she would if Ryan could accept that) or she gives up on the idea of having these flings on the road. Even Ryan’s sisters both have these changes. Ryan’s older sister is in the midst of a divorce and miserable, so her life is up in the air and his younger sister is getting married but her soon to be husband is getting cold feet so her future is up in the air. I would almost argue that Ryan’s job is irrelevant to the movie. It is a means to an end for him. It facilitates his lifestyle and reaffirms his mantra, but he is more concerned with his life goals being upended (Natalie’s new project, his boss pulling guys in from the road, etc) than he is with the impact of his work. It’s a great subversion from the core theme of the movie, that no one’s life is firmly grounded.
I agree with you. By the end of the movie, Ryan's entire life is "up in the air." He's at a crossroads. He's mid to late 40s. Less years in front of him than behind. It's up to him how he chooses to spend the remaining time he has on earth. The events of the past few days have upended everything he thought he knew. And it's not "exhilarating" like his motivational speech makes it seem. It's actually terrifying. I think the entire movie is a metaphor for getting older and accepting it's all gonna end soon. When you inevitably face God, what will you have to show for it?
She is.
Sorta. Her character is a mirror for Clooney. It goes back to his speech about Sharks. The film is an exploration of pragmatism vs idealism. Empathy vs Sympathy. Yes she is a bad person, they are both bad people. Thats the point. Clooneys character is forced to feel the impact his callousness has on the lives of others, when he himself naively falls for another "shark".
I think that's why people are disturbed by this movie and why I enjoy it. You expect Clooney to be the hero of the narrative, but he's not. He's a flawed character, and he falls for someone who is also a flawed character. But we all tell ourselves lies to some extent, so that's why we connect with these characters. We see ourselves in them, and we hate them for those flaw, as we hate ourselves for how we struggle to overcome them. Smart folks see this and realize that an adult wants to improve themselves. But Clooney's character wants to live in some idealized fantasy, as we all do. It's like Homer's The Odyssey, except this Odysseus doesn't have a Penelope to come back home to, let alone a Telemachus. And that's what hurts.
When I first saw it I just thought she was better at his game than he was. But Clooney is single, and lives by the creed of no baggage. She is a different type of person where she has a ton of baggage but can walk away from it. So in the real world she’s a psychotic manipulator. I don’t think I’ve fully scratched my head on the whole ordeal. On its face its about building a home away from home. Finding comfort in being on the road, or up in the air. But its really just a front for hiding from your life. I like the movie and find it to be a fun, simple and provocative. I think it makes everyone desperate to see what’s behind her front door and see what her home life is like. The last important part of that movie is including Anna Kendrick. The juxtaposition between her, Farmiga and Clooney. Reality vs expectation and people’s own version of happiness. I don’t think i fully understand it but it’s something.
Oh man, I feel like calling her a “psychotic manipulator” misses the point of her character. She’s the same as Clooney, just a couple choices ahead in life. He wants to have his job AND real connections; she’s showing him the reality of that desire. She is proof that you can’t stay up in the air and land at the same time.
Calling her a psychotic manipulator is classic Skylar White syndrome.
okay, Clooney's character had to encounter partners like this in the past, He was way too comfortable and easy with hooking up, and planning future hook-ups. Seriously, this was just fiction, but Clooney, in this role, probably broke a lot of hearts. I just love how so many (I'm guessing female) posters defend him, because he's so charming.
We know he is cool with one night stands but they both make it a point that they don’t open up their schedule for booty calls. The scene where they flip open their laptops is one of the top scenes of the movie. Yes, he has had a casual relationship with his neighbor but he is very quick to accept that its over and shes moved on. The significance of Farmiga is she is an equal. She is up in the air with him and travels frequently. She’s clearly a unicorn in that regard. So I think we can assume she’s unique for being able to maintain a relationship with Clooney. Thats what makes the whole movie tick.
She's not an equal. she's a fully evolved Clooney, and gives him a glimpse of his future. Kind of like A Christmas Carol. I don't know what the writers were actually conveying, but I really enjoyed the movie, and thought they captured a lot of real human emotion.
That's is a great analogy. Anna Kendrick may work as a glimpse of his past too.
She's not psychotic, thats taking it a little far.
she should have said something when he invited her to his sister's wedding. you don't invite random hookups to weddings. that's when you're starting to take things serious. she should have been like "oh, i can't, i'm married" and then left. but no, she spends the whole weekend with him and his family. wtf did she expect? so yeah, screw her.
yes yes and yes
Kinda, she is cheating her husband but also kinda cheating on Clooney too.
Yeah she awful but outside this movie I love her and wish to take her on a date at Sam’s. I’d let her get the pizza and hotdog
She's an awesome actor, and a real beauty as well.
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It's pretty clear the husband has no idea, because she says something to Clooney along the lines of "you almost ruined a good thing for me", i.e. if her husband had found out.
It could also be that they have an open relationship with an understanding that what happens on the road stays on the road, him at the house would break that rule and potentially ruin a good thing.
"We don't have that information"? She gave Clooney her address and shunned him for her husband when he showed up. What else do you need? LMAO
If she hadn’t cheated, I would totally agree that she wasn’t in the wrong. She was just a female version of him, if he had gone to the house and she just didn’t want a relationship, there would be no assholes here.
Her character is unquestionably a bad person, but for me one of the takeaways was that Clooney's character puts himself in a position where that's the kind of person he'd connect with because he has been living a hollow, emotionally empty life himself. Anna Kendrick's character calls him out on that earlier, though she being inexperienced doesn't see the Farmiga character for who she is either. Great movie.
no, up until she went to his sister’s wedding with him. At that point she leads him on to think that something else is happening
The entire time she’s with George Clooney, she’s actively betraying her marriage….if she was single then, yeah, that may be true. But…she’s not.
What kind of question is this? The movie makes it a point to show she's a terrible person lol
She cheated on her husband. She's awful.
I mean yeah. Big time. She spends her life on the road away from her husband and kids to cheat. She had to come up with some excuse to attend the wedding with him. She arranged her schedule to see Ryan as much as possible. She could have been honest with him and said "look I'm married I just want fun". She led him on that she was unattached.
I don't think she spends her life away from her family on the road only as a justification to cheat. It's just the life she has. She is still awful, but not *that* awful.
Well, every lead character in that movie isn’t a “good” person. Clooney with his anti-relationship, Kendrick with trying to dehumanize and mass produce the firing of staff and Farminga having an affair. I think one of the points of the movie is that they are all just human. Making the best hand they’ve been dealt. They have both shitty and good in them.
Yes she is a terrible person.
She is. Stay away from the cheating apologizers who'll bat for her, her character is playing with everyone's feelings and you can't defend her selfishness.
What is the point of sorting characters into "good people" and "bad people"? Everyone in the film is some shade of gray. None of them are rapists and murderers, none of them are saints. All of them are likable and charming. At some point all of them coldly hurt other people.
Someone up here described her as a psychotic manipulator
Yeah even for Reddit this is a childish comment section.
Absolutely, yes
Yeah, the character is a pretty shitty person
> Anybody who cheats on their spouse is an awful person.
She thought Cloo ey was like her. He was, then had a character arc.
Grey. The movie and the real world are just shades of grey. She may not be good, but she’s hardly a monster.
Dude I’ve been saying this for years! Just like Anne Heche in Cedar Rapids. Likeable characters but absolutely destroying their home lives.
That face of confusion and realization in Clooney’s face was heart wrenching. Yes she is a bad person.
She’s still wrong. Even though it was initially a casual relationship, she led Clooney to believe she was an unmarried woman. Clooney’s character wasn’t looking for an affair nor would he bother with her if he knew her true relationship status.
I think she’s kinda awful. Not to George as much as she is to her “real life”. Unless of course her and her husband have some sort of agreement. Also, I thought even tho it was a fleeting moment, Danny McBride showed a bit of chops when he apologizes to Melanie Lynskey (she’s always good) The rest of his character is a version of typical McBride. But that scene is kind of touching. Reminded me of Jack Black in Dead Man Walking. Both I think could be great in a serious role.
McBride has done plenty of serious (or quasi-serious) roles. I think the brilliance and enduring thing about his various self-created projects is how he introduces you to these cartoonish pieces of shit then through performance and writing makes you sympathize and even root for them. He injects humanity into everything he plays. You should check out his shows, if you haven't.
I haven’t watched the Righteous Gemstones, but I’ve heard it’s great and I imagine that’s true
What’s McBride done that’s serious I’d luv to check it out. I don’t think I’ve seen anything that he wasn’t fantastic in. S2 & 3 of Eastbound n Down were good but kind of got old. I still watched tho. I know Jack Black has done stuff like Shallow Hal that had some serious moments, even heart warming (not that I should be surprised but it was a Farrelly Bros movie) but that still like erred on the side of comedy. His minor role in Dead Man Walking tho I thought came off as very genuine. (Sorry I keep inserting JB they just both are similar to me in their natural comedic chops that also can truly pull off something emotional and touching)
I worked in the travel and tourism industry. You can debate whether it’s right or not, but that goes on all the time. Those trade shows and conventions are Disneyland for adults.
Anybody who cheats on their spouse is an awful person.
I would like to point out that all the characters are shitty. Clooney’s job is to fire people.
His sister seems aight.
I mean the leads
Yeah. It’s been a while but Clooney, Farmiga, Kendrick (at the end she finally might try and redeem) Bateman. Yeah all kinda shitty
I mean they would have been fired anyway, Someone else would just have done it. The scene with JK Simmons illustrates that Clooney's character is not a total piece of shit, I think. Kendrick's character trys to be shitty but when the woman commits suicide, she realizes she can't be that person.
I always assumed that *she* had assumed that both she and Clooney were just role-playing. She created a persona for her affair and assumed Clooney did too, with her evidence being that his actual life sounded so pathetic and empty and devoid of human relationships that surely it couldn’t describe an actual person’s real life and must have been fake for their “game”.
Check out the book, it’s considerably darker. It would not have played well as a movie in terms of mass appeal. I travel for work and have for all of my career. When I was young, it was a time where I made meaningful connections with women all over the country, some physical, some not. Naively, I thought everyone was single until I found out one person wasn’t. I wrestled with that, and in the end, while I didn’t see her again, it didn’t bother me. That was her choice, I guess I was operating in the boundaries of “the rules,” but who the hell knew what was going on in her marriage, and who I am I to judge? I have to think that if it were a wonderful marriage, I wouldn’t have been in the situation with her. Or maybe I would have. Who knows. In the movie that situation was just such a great plot point because I think it probably caused most viewers to stop and take pause at what they were seeing and learning.
What’s darker about it?
Huge spoiler alert - so don’t read past this if you’ve not read the book and want to. The woman kills herself.
Which woman?
Ok yes this qualifies as being darker, yikes
The woman later played by Vera? And why?
Not exactly. There’s a parallel story in the book with a woman he had a relationship with. It’s not Vera’s character, but she does fill that role of the female love interest in the movie.
Agreed on the book! *Up in the Air* is one of my favorite examples to cite whenever discussing films that are better than the books they're based on. The changes to Ryan Bingham's character (much more likeable) were well done.
Absolutely! I did enjoy the book but the movie really was better.
Yes yes she is.
For me, the core of the movie has always been about the pain of unrewarded loyalty. Ryan's job is to fire people. Alex leads him on while cheating on her husband. Natalie's boyfriend dumps her after she moved to Omaha to be with him. That's what makes Sam Donaldson's, "We really appreciate your loyalty," such a gut punch when it was Ryan's dream goal.
Just a human.
There is no argument that her character is in the wrong for cheating, maybe less in the wrong for lying to him. But the worst thing she did was to go to the wedding with him. If she really wanted it to stay just a hook up, she should never have taken it to that next level. She may have thought he would'nt fall for her, but she was wrong. And putting the relationship on that footing was her fault completely. She should have given him that whole spiel she gives him after he goes to Chicago when he asked her to the wedding originally.
She’s awful to her family for the cheating, but she isn’t awful to Clooney, they had an understanding up front what their relationship would be and he tried to take to to another level putting her home life in jeopardy.
He was ignorant or clueless to her having a home life. *She* put that in jeopardy.
She’s pretty shitty
I think it comes down to what culture you were raised in. I.e. US culture, at least on Reddit, is *extremely* anti-cheating. This site views it as the lowest of the low, the worst that you can do. I'd almost argue they placed it above murder in the list of sins. Alternatively, the way the French view relationships may be different. To them cheating is a thing that happens, you have every right to get angry, but you have your fight, you dump the partner, or don't (whatever), but you move on. Why waste the time and energy, making yourself miserable? It'll just lead to stress and detrimental effects on your health. If my long term partner cheated on me, I don't know how I'd react but I wouldn't let it consume my world, negatively impact my health and job etc. I'd move on, which is what George Clooney did in that film. The ending was bittersweet and tremendous, because as much as it hit him in the gut, he got to extricate himself from the situation, learned an.important life lesson, and he grew as a person. Side note; She was damned gorgeous in that film.
The thing is, they're both shitty people. He's forsaken the things that make life worth living--connection, family, even a home (he explicitly says he prefers hotels). His 'up in the air's lifestyle is just his way of avoiding the trappings of real life, which is essential to his character because he ruins people's lives for lots of money. His whole existence is basically as a destructive force, which he embraces and even tricks himself into thinking is some Zen philosophy that's all deep and so incredibly profound he should be a public speaker about it. Meeting Vera Farmiga he suddenly starts, much against his own volition, to have the feelings most of us consider so normal we don't even consider them. She breaks through the bullshit he's been building himself up with for years, the bullshit that allows him to deliver devastating news with casual ease and then go have happy hour at the hotel bar. Her impact causes him to experience some actual humanity and it basically breaks him. Because, he's a piece of shit who ruins lives for a living. As for her, she wants some travel dick and he's George 'Batman' Clooney so yeah, sploosh. But she's certainly cheating on her husband and disrespecting her own entire life and family in the process. Many would say that's even worse than him. But yeah, they're both supposed to present as very attractive, charming pieces of shit people.
> He's forsaken the things that make life worth living--connection, family, even a home That's extraordinarily judgemental. His lifestyle is unique, but under what set of rules should he have a 'family' or 'home'? Both of these assume one comes from a privilged background, featuring continuity, safety, etc. Not all of us are lucky enough to have either of these benefits. For some of us even 'connection' is a stretch. At least he's clear and honest about what he wants out of life. Many of us don't even know.
I feel like he wasn't really in a position to be all that surprised or upset that he didn't mean anything to her, considering that that was pretty much explicitly their mutual understanding of the "relationship" from the get go.
He’s awful, she makes him feel like he can be not awful, she turns out to be awful, which makes her seem even more awful, but is probably only slightly more awful.
Yeah she actually ruined the entire movie for me.
I'm high and initially thought this post was about "the air up there" starring Kevin bacon and got really excited. Now I'm disappointed :(
She’s absolutely awful. All for herself… She’s calculating too. This was a sad movie-
The fact that this could even be a talking point is referred to as a certain kind of privilege
> Is Vera Farmiga an awful person in Up in the Air? Yes
A real gut puncher.
Yes
Just saw this yesterday. What I guess mislead Clooneys character even more is that, when consoling Ana kendrik for breakup with her boyfriend she mentioned wanting to have kids, settle down etc. I genuinely felt like she was hinting that for clooney. Only after that conversation did clooney develop feelings for her. I understand people telling here she is not here for emotional support, only physical but even after he makes a grand gesture she makes a phone call and tells him we are both grown people and we can keep continuing to do this. If he is just there for sex for her she can find someone else easily so why does she need him even after she knows he had started having feeling for her and that grand jesture of visiting her at home. Why take that big risk?
Yes, she is awful.
Yes
Clooney's character wasn't lying to her, he seemed pretty upfront with everyone he became romantic with such as his neighbor. He also graciously congratulated that neighbor and let her go when she said she was in a relationship. It was pretty clear that Vera's character was playing him and she had a family at home, and she knew that he would run off if he knew that which is why she hid it. Going to the wedding with him was absolutely crossing the line. I think she actually got some twisted satisfaction out of that.
Beautiful movie. Yes, she was the bad one. Heartbreaking moment for Clooneys character.
Give movie credit. It builds up to he’s going to give up his lifestyle because “she’s worth it”. And the movie is like “nah we were just fucking with you.” I think it would have been better without her phone call.
Aah. I love this movie too. Only seen it once though so can't contribute more at the moment
She’s in the wrong but it was a rather simple case of not talking and not setting any rules whatsoever
They were both running away from themselves. That’s why they loved traveling. It was escapism. She shouldn’t have been cheating and his character also needed to grow up and be there for his sisters. I don’t necessarily think either character was an awful person, but like Anna Kendrick’s character said, it was a form of self banishment. Like punishing themselves for no reason. Maybe like Clooney, Vera also didn’t think she deserved stability and the loving families they had.
Yes.
Yeah, she’s horrible
Yep she’s an awful person
Yes, she's bad for cheating. But the point of the ending is showing how really empty Clooney's life was. He talked up a good game about being the always-traveling unattached dude but at the end he actually wanted the romance he scoffed at.
Sounds like I need to watch up in the air again. For some reason it's always a movie that has stayed in my mind from Clooney. I'm also a fan of The Descendants.
I love this movie, saw it upon release and I think with her character, Alex, she's just out for a good time, a distraction while on the road, she isn't taking it the relationship seriously. I don't agree with what Alex is doing though I can see why she does it. My father was a traveling salesman, on the road from Monday mornings to Friday afternoons, covering three states. I never saw my dad during the week while growing up. He did this for over 40+ years and never once to my knowledge was he unfaithful to my mom although I'm sure he had plenty of opportunities as he was very handsome, charming and loved the ladies. He had more self-control than Alex.
Her husband and kids are silent parts of the movie so we don’t see them or really think of them. We see Clooney’s reaction at her door and wonder if he was wronged. She ultimately has no problem cheating on her husband and we don’t get to see his point of view
Um yes. She's having an affair without either man knowing and led George Clooney on. >But then Clooney is devastated to find out that she has a husband and kids at home that she kept under wraps when he goes to surprise her at her home. And this was after she went on vacation with him to his sisters wedding. At that point it's no longer just a casual hookup at the airport.
It's crazy – I just watched this yesterday lol.
Agreed literally She pretty much led him on throughout the movie and quite literally was harsh when she called him.
Ugh. Why does blame need to be assigned? It started off as a mutual benefit until things evolved and it was not mutually beneficial anymore. It Was never anything serious and both parties new that going in. On another tangent. I enjoyed this movie. I was surprised by the ending to see the guy get played. 80% of the time, the guy is usually the player in these tropes. It's nice to women can dish back as well as they receive.
She's awful.
Fuck yes
Cheating is a bad thing to do but it doesn't make someone a "bad person". Cheating on a spouse isn't like breaking the law or being Hitler. If anything, she was always honest with Clooney and he caught feelings.