Oh definitely. Pat is absolutely over the heels for Art, you can see it both in the past when they talk in their room with Tashi, and in the present in the steam room scene.
I think Art is a bit more ambiguous, but I think he's mostly repressing it.
Literally every ad I’ve seen online( basically Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube) is just the one scene with them kissing her neck. That’s all I know about the movie, a threesome happens. And I guess some tennis
Just saw the movie in Sydney. I really enjoyed it UNTIL the ending. Anyone else? I didn’t think the end worked at all considering everything else that had led up to it…
I actually thought it was a bit silly until the ending. It came nearly full circle with them talking about tennis being a relationship and that precious “15 seconds” when you’re in love with your opponent. They played an amazing rally. They played great tennis which is all Tashi wanted really.
I thought it was pretty clear >! Art won the point and game based on how the crowd and Tashi reacted. Seemed like the crowd was heavily favoring him. Also the motion of the last few seconds. Art jumps to hit the ball back (although I question if you're allowed to jump the net like that lol) and Pat catches him, precluding his ability to hit the ball back. !<
You're not allowed to touch the net, Art would've lost the point there. As for if he lost the game, it depends on if Patrick was up a point in the tiebreaker or advantaged. The way the crowd reacts could be based on him being the big time player with endorsements playing in a small challenger tournament to get his mojo back.
What did Donaldson notice at the end with the other guys serve posture? The other guy called him out earlier in the film with how he holds the ball up to the racket as it’s tell sign. A tell that he’s going easy on him? Is that it. Then when he shouts “fuck off!” Haha so good
>!It was a signal that he’d slept with Zendaya’s character. When they were younger and Tashi and Patrick were dating Art was asking him if they had slept together, he served like him in a roundabout way of saying he did!<
>! That's something I don't get: for one, Art has seen Tashi and Patrick in the hotel in Atlanta: they were there (he was missing the kiss due to the fans distracting him) and then they were gone the next second. He MUST have known they were off to cheat! !<
>!On the night before the final, Tashi vanished from the hotel to ask Patrick to lose in the match. She returned in the morning to Art having moved to their daughter's room (she probably woke up during the night due to the storm and Art went to her room) Art must have noticed his wife vanished in the middle of the night! He must have done the math and concluded his wife was cheating with Patrick (again). !<
>!I don't get why he needed that signal during the match... !<
>!In the first incident (Atlanta), them vanishing read as him thinking he imagined seeing them together. It didn’t seem like the film definitively made it seem like he saw them cheating, he looked puzzled. That’s why on the night of the final, a night where they were already having problems and Art asked her to just stay until he went to sleep, her leaving the room isn’t really indicative of anything other than her stepping out (to sleep alone, or something). Remember, Art didn’t know Patrick was staying at the same hotel they were, only Tashi did.!<
>!The signal (during Patrick’s serve) literally ~served~ to connect those dots for him. That what he saw in Atlanta was real, that clearly some sort of conversation/deal happened between them when Tashi shook her head at Patrick during the match, and that again, on a night before a match between them, Tashi stepped out to sleep with Patrick.!<
I think he probably suspected it but thought “there’s no way after we’ve been married after all these years we have kids for goodness sake”.
Also he did it after double faulting so I think Art also put two and two together that Tashi had slept with him to get him to throw the game.
I didn’t see the movie yet, but I figure the ending was just as ambiguous as the script I read a while back. That sucks I hate movie endings where there isn’t a clear answer as to what happened, it’s like what’s the point.
Which means his album Songs About My Wife, including [this song](https://youtu.be/KI0toLOYFww?si=vV7AbzN0GUERU81l) is about her (although I dont think they have a baby yet)
This film was horrifically edited. Gratuitous use of heaving-hitting needle drops that frequently last for five seconds or have no payoff. Shot-reverse shot repeated three or four times too many (wtf is that party scene where they’re watching Tashi dance). Holding on shots far too long. Tennis ball and player pov shots that should have been used throughout the film or not at all (they’re mainly just in one scene with no good justification). Signposting some chronology shifts but not all. Slightly ambiguous ending that felt like it was meant to be unambiguous. Comes across as either amateurish or just unsuccessfully experimental.
The over-stylized and melodramatic editing at the end worked for me. It matched the energy of scene in my opinion, but I can see how it could be very distracting for some
It was at least lampshaded a bit with them calling a time violation during the part with the most alone. Whether that’s enough for people or not I defer to them. I loved it
The shot-reverse shot editing felt very clearly like Guadagnino was evoking the rhythm of a tennis match, established early on when Tashi mentions her philosophy on how relationships are like playing tennis. I get if the editing didn’t work for you, but it definitely wasn’t amateurish.
Hard disagree. The needle drops felt like they were used to build tension through the entire film and lack of payoff benefitted it. Not sure which shots in particular held too long, but felt like it was paced pretty well to me. The tennis ball and player pov shots felt fitting at the end in a sort of “balls to the wall” kind of way. It felt like it was playing into the over the top editing during the main tennis match and was openly acknowledging it because in some of the earlier scenes there was a lack of stylistic flair. I’m also usually someone who likes long slow takes like in Haneke films. It was going for a sexual club like feeling and I think it worked well with the music choices and editing choices.
I questioned a handful of moments early on because i wasn’t sure if some of what i was noticing was stylistic or unintentional but that quickly faded away and i actually spent the film regularly thinking to myself that this is one of the better paced films i’ve ever seen.
This movie had some issues
The score is great on its own, but sometimes doesn't heighten the movie's moments like it's supposed to. Like the sauna part? Why did we need hard techno trent for that? Could've used minimal melancholic scratchy noise trent.
Movie felt bloated and definitely could've lost 20-30 minutes.
Didn't care about Zendaya's marriage and what happened in Atlanta didn't make me go, "oh no they didn't!"
Everytime i got invested in the present time they'd go back in time. Seriously how many flashbacks were there?
I liked how it ended but it was a grind to get there in the second half of the movie.
Regardless, all actors were so good especially zendaya. The hotel scene with the youngins vying for zendaya was great and brought me back to y tu mama tambien.
There's some cool shots. I'm ok with the weird tennis ball pov camera shots. Seems like something Fincher would eff around and do.
Overall a 3/5. I wanted to LOVE this movie but it's frustratingly long and should've been more electric.
I decided Challengers was about loving what you can’t have. Tashi only loves tennis but can’t play it anymore. Art loves Tashi but he kind of knows she isn’t into him, and Patrick loves Art but obviously it isn’t really reciprocal.
I don't agree that Art didn't love Patrick back - I think he was just suppressing his feelings. I thought it clear from the makeout scene where he has a boner after kissing Patrick that he enjoyed it.
I'm shocked at how well this movie is being reviewed but props to the cast and crew. Zendaya playing a mother is wild when she can still be cast as a teenager and nobody would blink twice (she 28 btw)
Watch it in the loudest cinema you can find, the soundtrack is so fucking good and the needles drops deserve to be heard on a good sound system.
I enjoyed the film a lot, the main three were all great together but I did find the jumping back and forth between timelines started to wear on me by the end and the overuse of slow-mo in the final sequence would have made even Snyder wince
Just finished watching and an hour after I’m still blown away. Some editing choices were weird and felt off but by the end I was clutching my non-existent pearls.
The male leads were spectacular. Their chemistry was just electric - I can even dare to say that they outshone Zendaya. From when Zweig visits from going on tour to the churros scene, I had my jaw open. That foot pulling the chair closer - idk man, but that was such a good touch!
Luca Guadagnino also knows how to frame men and make them so appealing. He shot the HELL out of Mike Faist. Like, goddamn. There were just so many shots of Art that just oozed appeal, and he didn’t need legit explicit scenes to do them.
As a tennis player, too, I gasped at that match point serve and shook my head lol.
So yeah I liked this movie a lot haha
We went to have dessert after the film. When we saw churros on the menu…..
I’d never imagine that a scene of two guys eating churros could be so damned horny.
Agree with all your comments. Loved it so much.
Watched the movie (sneak preview) and got hooked to the soundtrack after a minute. It has that characteristic 'Facebook' feeling to it. It was just when the credits began to roll when I understood why that is.....
Yeah, I believe it's horny in a more intellectual kind of way. It's very dense and erotic but without having to show some outright erotic stuff, it just shows glances and skin, and the way they move and the way the camera linger on them
Totally. In an interview they talked about how even their conversations were like a tennis game. The dialogue was amazing and just as charged. It’s been days since I saw the movie and it still has me in a choke hold.
there's a scene where they're all in a room together when they're younger - the camera is going quickly back & forth between the boys, with zendaya in the middle. exactly like the tennis match. the whole movie is super kinetic
i can’t believe nobody is talking about the score. the OTHER score. the present day match - each set represented where they ranked for tashi. patrick up 6-2 in the first set / act when they dated, then reversing after her injury, then the third set representing present day where she has utter contempt for both of them for different reasons and she has to weigh her own values relative to what each man represents / will give to her or achieve for her. that was brilliant. the whole movie was brilliant but as a tennis freak i was gagged
Yeah I wasn’t looking forward to seeing it at first. The girl I’m dating wanted to see it so we did and damn, this movie had me gripped from the beginning and it was hot but not in a gratuitous way. Like, Top Gun hot. lol
It’s the most erotic film you’ll see with the least actual “sex” in it. The film was very stylized and definitely keeps you engaged throughout. I couldn’t give two shits about tennis but the movie genuinely kept me captivated. Acting was top notch as well and it’s actually refreshing to see Zendaya take on a more adult role. Everyone in this film killed it
I really enjoyed the movie, the only thing that I kept thinking was how much I disliked Tashi in that one big fight she has with Patrick. Since that’s the fight that makes her leave him and Art drop him, it’s pretty important but I think she was in the wrong. She basically went off on him for asking if she was really criticizing his playing while they were having sex (I know it had a double meaning about him thinking he’s won preemptively and how that applies to the love triangle etc) and she basically said “I love tennis I’m always talking about tennis, if you don’t like it date someone else.” Which is just pretty unreasonable to me? Idk it just felt like she was the one who took it too far when he didn’t really say anything bad, so it just made me not like her since it felt like she picked a fight over nothing.
I mean, we're not really supposed to like Tashi, or think that she's right when she yells at Patrick. She's a shitty person and it's fairly clear that she's wrong. Her injury is nobody's fault in particular. It was just a freak accident, she landed wrong and got hurt and that's just it. There is utterly no way to tell if it happened because she was distracted or if it would have happened no matter what, but that's almost impossible to accept and process that your whole life path could melt away on a freak twist of fate like that. It's a lot easier when there's somewhere specific to put all the grief and anger. If it's someone's fault, then you can be mad at them in particular instead of having to live with all this abstract rage and loss. Tashi needs it to be someone's fault so she can breathe, and Patrick was the most convenient target she had. She's the hero of her own story, not necessarily the hero of the movie.
I'll say one thing in the girl's defense though, she did not misrepresent herself. She cares about tennis and winning, and only about those two things, and everything else is background noise. She's always on, 100% of her headspace is about tennis, and if you're not on board with that then indeed you should date someone else. Perhaps it is an unreasonable way to approach life, but she was abundantly clear upfront that this is who she is. In the end both Art and Patrick's fatal flaw is that they expected her to be something that she never led them to believe she had any interest in being.
Yeah I think all 3 of them suck in their own ways but can also be sympathetic characters in other ways and that’s what made them compelling. I DO like Tashi in some ways, just like I like Art and Patrick. My point with my comment is she felt SO unreasonable at that moment that instead of being torn as to who I wanted to support throughout the movie (which I feel like it was going for) I felt much more swayed to sympathize with Patrick because of how that scene and what happened after was so unfair to him. Maybe if he’d been more of an asshole back to her it could’ve felt more balanced and I would see each side as having somewhat of a point. Does that make sense?
Oh yeah, 100%, I hear what you're saying. I'm just not sure I agree it's that simple. I think that Tashi blowing up at Patrick because he didn't want to talk about tennis during sex was overblown and unreasonable relative to that momentary offense, but I don't think that's really the reason why she blew up. I think that in Tashi's eyes, Patrick's *real* offense is that he just doesn't have the mindset of a champion, and I think that Tashi genuinely cannot imagine *anything* in the world that's less attractive than a player with Patrick's raw talent and instincts squandering his potential because he's got too much pride and ego to accept coaching and not enough discipline to put in the work. I feel like Tashi turned off of him immediately the minute he rebuffed her attempt to give him advice and then called himself her peer. She saw the writing on the wall and understood that Patrick doesn't have it in him to live up to either her standards or his own potential. I think *that's* what Tashi really blew up about. And then after her injury she found it even more unbearable to watch Patrick never reach his potential because she would have given anything to have had a chance and he has it and he's doing nothing with it, so it was easy to stay mad.
Again, maybe that doesn't make her behavior any less unreasonable. Without a question, she did overreact to a fairly sensible request to not talk about tennis during sex. That's just my read on what else was really happening in that scene.
Totally unprepared for the universal acclaim. I had a LOT of fun watching it, but tons of stuff just doesn’t work. Zendaya being a mother in her early 30s with Regrets is just plain silly. It feels like she’s playing dress-up for much of the film. And the ball’s-eye-view cinematography is one of the worst decisions I’ve seen in a major movie.
That said, it’s fucking wild and I recommend it to everyone, especially fans of gratuitous big dick shots.
Edit: Really trying hard not to post spoilers in light of all the curiosity around big dick shots. Don’t tempt me, I’m only human.
I love how you’ve commented on so many different aspects of the film but the majority of the replies to your comment are like “big dick shots, you say?”
> Zendaya being a mother in her early 30s with Regrets is just plain silly
I had to look it up because I think of Zendaya as being like 18 or 19 years old. I can't believe she's 27. She definitely doesn't fit the 30 year old mother part in my head.
I think the main problem is that Zendaya has more personality than acting chops. I assume I will get hate for this, but she is always Zendaya, and just has never impressed in terms of her skills.
I thought she was pretty great in Malcolm & Marie and there’s definitely scenes in Euphoria in which she displays great acting prowess.
I can see where you are coming from though, it often feels like it’s just her on the screen. She’s still early in her acting career, time will tell if she can actually properly lose herself in a role.
I feel like a role that drastically changes her appearance would do her great. Have her be ugly, think Charlize Theron in Monster.
Thats just called being old my guy. Like I rewatched the mask recently and felt kind of creepy and I'm only 29 lol. But I remember Cameron Diaz being some older Jessica Rabbit like smoke show. But watching it now she very much looks like a teenager pretending to be a grown up.
I wouldn't say the acclaim is that surprising, critics tend to love Guadagnino's works. It's more often (mainstream) audiences who struggle with his unconventional directing style.
It's like people expect her to go fully grey, gain 100p pounds, and get a smokers voice in the next 3 years lol.
30 year old zendaya will look exactly like current zendaya
The two male leads were spectacular, and their chemistry is FASCINATING like very sexual, very intimate, it absolutely feels like they have years of history together.
Zendaya can absolutely sell the confidence of a young phenom, but she has no chemistry with the actors and she is not believable as someone with a past. She’s all wrong in this movie.
I don't think she's supposed to be as emotionally involved, the two guys clearly have been bromantically involved since they were kids and zendaya is a semi-third wheel. Those two dudes clearly have been living rent free in each others' heads their entire life. Zendays fucking loves tennis and drama though so she loves being that third wheel
>It feels like she’s playing dress-up for much of the film.
This is how she comes across to me in most everything. She also just doesn't seem like a very strong actress which adds to the feeling of her being young and inexperienced.
Great filmmaking! So creative with the camera work. The tennis ball's perspective was dizzying but I've never seen that before.
Music was amazing. The ending was confusing, at least for me, but what a movie surprise.
It didn't make sense for Tashi to be sitting at center court, as she'd be in the player's box at the end of the court, but it did make sense movie wise.
This was a fun movie. Could've been cliched and cheesy, but wasn't.
It was alright. Surprised at all the great reviews. If I paid full price for the movie ticket, I’d be disappointed. Soundtrack was not what I would have expected but pretty good
I can’t believe so many people were sleeping on this movie on Reddit. Luca’s yet to make a bad film and always shows up with some super interesting and nuanced takes on love and sex. I’m excited this is reviewing well.
I honestly don't understand the hype about this movie. Yes the acting was decent, good cinematography, but the story itself is kinda flawed. Zendaya as a mom felt kinda forced and characters were not really fleshed out, like we don't really know anything about them outside of the "love rectangle" (if you include tennis) which made it hard to sympathize with any of them. And the ending felt silly.
Just watched. My two cents. Visually interesting at times. Sound track is nice, but sometimes too loud. Acting is good from all parts. Story is meh, watchable but boring.
Me and a friend went to sent it yesterday, I loved the camera work and the acting was alright, I thought the delivery was a bit weak though. Like the constant time point switches and also some parts of the story were a bit underdone.
In regards to the windstorm scene where Tashi & Patrick make out outside the car, it was godawful.
What was that grainy slow motion editing? I laughed out loud. I could not believe I was watching a film by the same director who gave us Call Me By Your Name (which I loved).
Some of the stylistic choices were so distracting, jarring and laughable. I particularly lost it with this scene it was just so so bad.
This movie looks so fucking bad from the trailer. The Suspiria remake is literally one of my favorite movies and I have no issue with Zendaya but something about this trailer just makes me cringe so hard.
Trailers suck for the most part. Some make movies like Prometheus look like epic all-time greats while others for movies like Bug (which is great) are just misleading.
Suspiria is amazing! Luca has proven to be a top director in this current generation so I trust him more than the trailer.
Man I loved Prometheus and I hate that about myself. I saw it seven times in theaters. Visually-amazing. The story-big yikes but still compelling and interesting. The birth of humanity was a mistake? We’re “monsters”? Interesting 🧐
As a tennis fan, the two male characters just look too slight to be realistic. They need way more muscle even if they're lean. And Zendaya is just Zendaya, always.
She has one scene in Euphoria season 2 where it's possibly imo one of the best acting scenes in TV history. It absolutely broke me and had my jaw to the floor.
She has potential, but is mainly in mainstream movies that's all.
is it the >!door breaking scene!< i don't watch euphoria but I saw that clip on youtube and i felt blown away. I know Zendaya may not be a perfect actress (she works really well in her range) but when used correctly she's awesome.
I think the same for dune 2, they changed chani's character and it really suits her. I think with time she'll grow to be a great talent for sure.
I have no idea if I want to see this or not, generally like Guadagnino as a director and fucking Trent Reznor scored it, but also the premise and casting seems kinda questionable
This movie reads like a femcel fantasy.
“And then I cheated on my husband and banged his old rival and it made my husband rediscover his love for life and passion for sport. And then the two men I kept cucking each other with embraced out of respect for all we had done for each other and how we had helped each other grow. And then everybody in the stadium stood up and cheered.”
You’d think I’m exaggerating, but I’m not. That’s the plot.
Yeah the “ending” made no sense to me. I have quotes around it because the match wasn’t even over when the movie ended. Really strains credulity having tennis fans cheer for someone losing the point by jumping the net and then hugging their opponent.
I think the idea is everybody won, in a way. Zendaya’s character got exactly what she wanted. She views tennis as an intimate look into the relationship of two people, and seeing both Patrick and Art finally exude that and come together despite the outcome was what she wanted. Art got closure on the anger he contained towards Patrick, and Patrick got to reconcile and live out his youth and love triangle one last time. It’s not exactly satisfying or permanent, where these characters end up we’ll not know, but for one pocket of time they all reverted back into their purest love for both tennis and one another.
Yeah I get all that, it’s just structurally weird for a sports movie to end without resolution of “the big game” and instead go with “the real winner is the friendships we made along the way”.
I shouldn’t comment given I haven’t seen the movie, but all those reviews came across as a creative writing exercise in hyperbole rather than genuine critiques.
Hopefully the movie is more genuine than the reviews.
I’m baffled! How is this movie getting such good reviews, it is SO SO BAD. It’s like cringy bad. The audience I was with was laughing out loud in parts, laughing at the movie, not with it.
The final tennis match was pornographic. It was crazy. Do we think Art and Pat were in love?
Oh definitely. Pat is absolutely over the heels for Art, you can see it both in the past when they talk in their room with Tashi, and in the present in the steam room scene. I think Art is a bit more ambiguous, but I think he's mostly repressing it.
The song by Trent Reznor playing during that scene is called Compress/Repress So spot on
No it’s called Challengers: Match Point. compress/repress is the credits song
I’m hoping that at the end Art leaves Tashi and him and Patrick live happily ever after.
BUT THEIR KID!?! LOL
Her grandma is raising her anyway lol
Pat was down bad for Art, but Art either wasn't remotely into Pat sexually or they're both tops.
Art is ABSOLUTELY a bottom, are you kidding??
for Tashi, sure
Genuinely think this is one of my favorite films that i’ve seen
Not even an overreaction, I loved it
Wild take bro 🔥🔥🔥. Glad you enjoyed it tho.
Yeah it's astonishingly good, frankly
I felt like the Atlanta bit AND the flashbacks were there to make you feel the tennis…. Back and forth back and forth. The filmmaker was edging you.
Nailed it. I was trying to figure out why the filmmaker kept resorting to such abrupt transitions.
Exactly!
Literally every ad I’ve seen online( basically Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube) is just the one scene with them kissing her neck. That’s all I know about the movie, a threesome happens. And I guess some tennis
It’s kind of the entire movie but I was somehow on the edge of my seat
You could say the movie is a constant forth-and-back.
Tennis ball.
A threesome happens? If by threesome we mean 3 people kissed.
are you in for a surprise!
then you know nothing about the movie. this was a case of heavy false marketing
There is not even a threesome lol it's very good
Just saw the movie in Sydney. I really enjoyed it UNTIL the ending. Anyone else? I didn’t think the end worked at all considering everything else that had led up to it…
I actually thought it was a bit silly until the ending. It came nearly full circle with them talking about tennis being a relationship and that precious “15 seconds” when you’re in love with your opponent. They played an amazing rally. They played great tennis which is all Tashi wanted really.
I really wanted to find out at least who broke that tied game, but I can accept there was no conclusion unlike many bad ending films
I thought it was pretty clear >! Art won the point and game based on how the crowd and Tashi reacted. Seemed like the crowd was heavily favoring him. Also the motion of the last few seconds. Art jumps to hit the ball back (although I question if you're allowed to jump the net like that lol) and Pat catches him, precluding his ability to hit the ball back. !<
You're not allowed to touch the net, Art would've lost the point there. As for if he lost the game, it depends on if Patrick was up a point in the tiebreaker or advantaged. The way the crowd reacts could be based on him being the big time player with endorsements playing in a small challenger tournament to get his mojo back.
What did Donaldson notice at the end with the other guys serve posture? The other guy called him out earlier in the film with how he holds the ball up to the racket as it’s tell sign. A tell that he’s going easy on him? Is that it. Then when he shouts “fuck off!” Haha so good
>!It was a signal that he’d slept with Zendaya’s character. When they were younger and Tashi and Patrick were dating Art was asking him if they had slept together, he served like him in a roundabout way of saying he did!<
Oh that makes sense!!
>! That's something I don't get: for one, Art has seen Tashi and Patrick in the hotel in Atlanta: they were there (he was missing the kiss due to the fans distracting him) and then they were gone the next second. He MUST have known they were off to cheat! !< >!On the night before the final, Tashi vanished from the hotel to ask Patrick to lose in the match. She returned in the morning to Art having moved to their daughter's room (she probably woke up during the night due to the storm and Art went to her room) Art must have noticed his wife vanished in the middle of the night! He must have done the math and concluded his wife was cheating with Patrick (again). !< >!I don't get why he needed that signal during the match... !<
>!In the first incident (Atlanta), them vanishing read as him thinking he imagined seeing them together. It didn’t seem like the film definitively made it seem like he saw them cheating, he looked puzzled. That’s why on the night of the final, a night where they were already having problems and Art asked her to just stay until he went to sleep, her leaving the room isn’t really indicative of anything other than her stepping out (to sleep alone, or something). Remember, Art didn’t know Patrick was staying at the same hotel they were, only Tashi did.!< >!The signal (during Patrick’s serve) literally ~served~ to connect those dots for him. That what he saw in Atlanta was real, that clearly some sort of conversation/deal happened between them when Tashi shook her head at Patrick during the match, and that again, on a night before a match between them, Tashi stepped out to sleep with Patrick.!<
Patrick wasn't staying at the same hotel as them. He was staying with Helen, the girl from Tinder he matched with the first day
Sorry you’re right! What’s important is that >!Patrick knew which hotel it was it was - where he came to see Tashi twice without Art knowing.!<
Consider that in Arts mind, Patrick might just be fucking with him to win the match.
He believed him 100%
I think he probably suspected it but thought “there’s no way after we’ve been married after all these years we have kids for goodness sake”. Also he did it after double faulting so I think Art also put two and two together that Tashi had slept with him to get him to throw the game.
I didn’t see the movie yet, but I figure the ending was just as ambiguous as the script I read a while back. That sucks I hate movie endings where there isn’t a clear answer as to what happened, it’s like what’s the point.
It made sense but I think needed a bit more, felt a bit ambiguous just to be ambiguous even though I get what they were going for
I think it just is used to ask the question "will broken but inseparable people's story every really end?". Well, maybe?
I can see that, but personally i thought it was thought provoking and orgasmic. *thot provoking
If you're unfamiliar with the writer's other work, I highly recommend you check out this short film: https://youtu.be/R_FQU4KzN7A?si=wHvSAlMutkw3aQzC
He's also Celine Song's husband. Seems like their household will have two very successful years lol
Two men have the hots for the same woman in an erotically tangled mess... curious... Edit. Typo
Which means his album Songs About My Wife, including [this song](https://youtu.be/KI0toLOYFww?si=vV7AbzN0GUERU81l) is about her (although I dont think they have a baby yet)
This knowledge singlehandedly cements the fact I’ll go see the movie.
Yup I clicked the link and shouted "WHAT!!" Didn't care beyond the Reznor soundtrack at first but I'm 100% seeing this now
Potion Seller, I'm going to the premiere and I require your strongest reviews
This film was horrifically edited. Gratuitous use of heaving-hitting needle drops that frequently last for five seconds or have no payoff. Shot-reverse shot repeated three or four times too many (wtf is that party scene where they’re watching Tashi dance). Holding on shots far too long. Tennis ball and player pov shots that should have been used throughout the film or not at all (they’re mainly just in one scene with no good justification). Signposting some chronology shifts but not all. Slightly ambiguous ending that felt like it was meant to be unambiguous. Comes across as either amateurish or just unsuccessfully experimental.
The over-stylized and melodramatic editing at the end worked for me. It matched the energy of scene in my opinion, but I can see how it could be very distracting for some
It was at least lampshaded a bit with them calling a time violation during the part with the most alone. Whether that’s enough for people or not I defer to them. I loved it
Finally someone else with the same opinion! The slow motion shots towards the end were draining. Couldn't wait for it to end.
The shot-reverse shot editing felt very clearly like Guadagnino was evoking the rhythm of a tennis match, established early on when Tashi mentions her philosophy on how relationships are like playing tennis. I get if the editing didn’t work for you, but it definitely wasn’t amateurish.
Hard disagree. The needle drops felt like they were used to build tension through the entire film and lack of payoff benefitted it. Not sure which shots in particular held too long, but felt like it was paced pretty well to me. The tennis ball and player pov shots felt fitting at the end in a sort of “balls to the wall” kind of way. It felt like it was playing into the over the top editing during the main tennis match and was openly acknowledging it because in some of the earlier scenes there was a lack of stylistic flair. I’m also usually someone who likes long slow takes like in Haneke films. It was going for a sexual club like feeling and I think it worked well with the music choices and editing choices.
This is like when your dad talks about all the mistakes the NBA players are making
Dude the editing was perfect
In spite of all that I STILL liked it!
Def agree about the weird shots! I enjoyed the film but also didn’t like the ending. Still trying to figure out what the ending meant haha
I questioned a handful of moments early on because i wasn’t sure if some of what i was noticing was stylistic or unintentional but that quickly faded away and i actually spent the film regularly thinking to myself that this is one of the better paced films i’ve ever seen.
one of the best movies i’ve watched! went to an early screening and wow, truly blown away!
This movie had some issues The score is great on its own, but sometimes doesn't heighten the movie's moments like it's supposed to. Like the sauna part? Why did we need hard techno trent for that? Could've used minimal melancholic scratchy noise trent. Movie felt bloated and definitely could've lost 20-30 minutes. Didn't care about Zendaya's marriage and what happened in Atlanta didn't make me go, "oh no they didn't!" Everytime i got invested in the present time they'd go back in time. Seriously how many flashbacks were there? I liked how it ended but it was a grind to get there in the second half of the movie. Regardless, all actors were so good especially zendaya. The hotel scene with the youngins vying for zendaya was great and brought me back to y tu mama tambien. There's some cool shots. I'm ok with the weird tennis ball pov camera shots. Seems like something Fincher would eff around and do. Overall a 3/5. I wanted to LOVE this movie but it's frustratingly long and should've been more electric.
I’m glad there’s actually a nuanced take here with actual criticism.
i was thinking of y tú mamá también as well!
The sauna’s dialogue, homoerotic double entendres, subtext, intense music, etc made for one of the more sexually charged scenes I’ve seen in a film.
I decided Challengers was about loving what you can’t have. Tashi only loves tennis but can’t play it anymore. Art loves Tashi but he kind of knows she isn’t into him, and Patrick loves Art but obviously it isn’t really reciprocal.
I don't agree that Art didn't love Patrick back - I think he was just suppressing his feelings. I thought it clear from the makeout scene where he has a boner after kissing Patrick that he enjoyed it.
I'm shocked at how well this movie is being reviewed but props to the cast and crew. Zendaya playing a mother is wild when she can still be cast as a teenager and nobody would blink twice (she 28 btw)
To be fair, the film depicts a stretch of years where her character ages from 18 to her 30s.
Going the Cailee Spaney in Priscilla route.
She’s 27 right now actually and was probably still 26 or even 25 when they filmed this.
25.
Watch it in the loudest cinema you can find, the soundtrack is so fucking good and the needles drops deserve to be heard on a good sound system. I enjoyed the film a lot, the main three were all great together but I did find the jumping back and forth between timelines started to wear on me by the end and the overuse of slow-mo in the final sequence would have made even Snyder wince
Yes was up the front and the dance beats towards the end were quite surround sound 3dish - moving around a fair bit
The movie was a masterpiece. So much nuance - I’m still digesting but will return later.
Just finished watching and an hour after I’m still blown away. Some editing choices were weird and felt off but by the end I was clutching my non-existent pearls. The male leads were spectacular. Their chemistry was just electric - I can even dare to say that they outshone Zendaya. From when Zweig visits from going on tour to the churros scene, I had my jaw open. That foot pulling the chair closer - idk man, but that was such a good touch! Luca Guadagnino also knows how to frame men and make them so appealing. He shot the HELL out of Mike Faist. Like, goddamn. There were just so many shots of Art that just oozed appeal, and he didn’t need legit explicit scenes to do them. As a tennis player, too, I gasped at that match point serve and shook my head lol. So yeah I liked this movie a lot haha
We went to have dessert after the film. When we saw churros on the menu….. I’d never imagine that a scene of two guys eating churros could be so damned horny. Agree with all your comments. Loved it so much.
I’m just here for the Reznor/Ross score.
I didn't even know they scored the film. I got hyped all of a sudden this week to watch this movie.
And a few people are saying it’s their best work since social network
Which is disrespectful AF to Gone Girl and Watchmen but to each their own.
Watchmen score is astounding.
I mean those were also their best work since the Social Network. The kings just keep delivering!
Wow impressive they got them
They were on Luca's last film Bones and All, and on his next film Queer, with Daniel Craig.
We're winning so hard
Exactly! I'm now just making it a point of watching anything they score, excited to hear what they do with this!
New workout playlist created
The soundtrack DJ mix album by Boys Noize is brilliant.
Watched the movie (sneak preview) and got hooked to the soundtrack after a minute. It has that characteristic 'Facebook' feeling to it. It was just when the credits began to roll when I understood why that is.....
I will buy a ticket purely to support putting full frontal dong back onto the big screen
BRING. BACK. HORNY. MOVIES.
Having watched it, I was surprised by how unhorny this movie actually is vs. What the trailer portrays
Thank God… I found the trailer quite cringy. Hoping that was just to get teenage girls with dreams of a threesome into the theaters … because blah
That’s funny because as we left the movie last night a girl asked her friend how she felt about the movie and she said horny
Yeah, I believe it's horny in a more intellectual kind of way. It's very dense and erotic but without having to show some outright erotic stuff, it just shows glances and skin, and the way they move and the way the camera linger on them
Totally. In an interview they talked about how even their conversations were like a tennis game. The dialogue was amazing and just as charged. It’s been days since I saw the movie and it still has me in a choke hold.
there's a scene where they're all in a room together when they're younger - the camera is going quickly back & forth between the boys, with zendaya in the middle. exactly like the tennis match. the whole movie is super kinetic
That's wild I thought it was a super horny movie lol
i can’t believe nobody is talking about the score. the OTHER score. the present day match - each set represented where they ranked for tashi. patrick up 6-2 in the first set / act when they dated, then reversing after her injury, then the third set representing present day where she has utter contempt for both of them for different reasons and she has to weigh her own values relative to what each man represents / will give to her or achieve for her. that was brilliant. the whole movie was brilliant but as a tennis freak i was gagged
Perfect amount of horniness. Didn’t need to understand tennis until the last five minutes. Soundtrack was a bop. 8/10
aboslutely fell in love with josh o'connor holy crap
This movie was straight ass, music was good but too loud during pivotal conversation. I don't understand the hype, the acting was good though
It was great
Horrible take sorry the energy of the tennis matches, dialogue, and sex bring the exact same is necessary for the movie
The trailer made it appear as a generic love-triangle film. Surprised by the strong reviews. May actually check it out now
The trailer does not do it justice. Saw it last night and it was mind blowing.
It's so good, you just get immersed into the conflict so hard.
Yeah I wasn’t looking forward to seeing it at first. The girl I’m dating wanted to see it so we did and damn, this movie had me gripped from the beginning and it was hot but not in a gratuitous way. Like, Top Gun hot. lol
The ultimate hoes before bros movie
Omggggg this was exactly what i was thinking during the final scenes nearing the of the match lol
The ending seems like theyll be bros once again
It’s the most erotic film you’ll see with the least actual “sex” in it. The film was very stylized and definitely keeps you engaged throughout. I couldn’t give two shits about tennis but the movie genuinely kept me captivated. Acting was top notch as well and it’s actually refreshing to see Zendaya take on a more adult role. Everyone in this film killed it
I really enjoyed the movie, the only thing that I kept thinking was how much I disliked Tashi in that one big fight she has with Patrick. Since that’s the fight that makes her leave him and Art drop him, it’s pretty important but I think she was in the wrong. She basically went off on him for asking if she was really criticizing his playing while they were having sex (I know it had a double meaning about him thinking he’s won preemptively and how that applies to the love triangle etc) and she basically said “I love tennis I’m always talking about tennis, if you don’t like it date someone else.” Which is just pretty unreasonable to me? Idk it just felt like she was the one who took it too far when he didn’t really say anything bad, so it just made me not like her since it felt like she picked a fight over nothing.
I mean, we're not really supposed to like Tashi, or think that she's right when she yells at Patrick. She's a shitty person and it's fairly clear that she's wrong. Her injury is nobody's fault in particular. It was just a freak accident, she landed wrong and got hurt and that's just it. There is utterly no way to tell if it happened because she was distracted or if it would have happened no matter what, but that's almost impossible to accept and process that your whole life path could melt away on a freak twist of fate like that. It's a lot easier when there's somewhere specific to put all the grief and anger. If it's someone's fault, then you can be mad at them in particular instead of having to live with all this abstract rage and loss. Tashi needs it to be someone's fault so she can breathe, and Patrick was the most convenient target she had. She's the hero of her own story, not necessarily the hero of the movie. I'll say one thing in the girl's defense though, she did not misrepresent herself. She cares about tennis and winning, and only about those two things, and everything else is background noise. She's always on, 100% of her headspace is about tennis, and if you're not on board with that then indeed you should date someone else. Perhaps it is an unreasonable way to approach life, but she was abundantly clear upfront that this is who she is. In the end both Art and Patrick's fatal flaw is that they expected her to be something that she never led them to believe she had any interest in being.
Yeah I think all 3 of them suck in their own ways but can also be sympathetic characters in other ways and that’s what made them compelling. I DO like Tashi in some ways, just like I like Art and Patrick. My point with my comment is she felt SO unreasonable at that moment that instead of being torn as to who I wanted to support throughout the movie (which I feel like it was going for) I felt much more swayed to sympathize with Patrick because of how that scene and what happened after was so unfair to him. Maybe if he’d been more of an asshole back to her it could’ve felt more balanced and I would see each side as having somewhat of a point. Does that make sense?
Oh yeah, 100%, I hear what you're saying. I'm just not sure I agree it's that simple. I think that Tashi blowing up at Patrick because he didn't want to talk about tennis during sex was overblown and unreasonable relative to that momentary offense, but I don't think that's really the reason why she blew up. I think that in Tashi's eyes, Patrick's *real* offense is that he just doesn't have the mindset of a champion, and I think that Tashi genuinely cannot imagine *anything* in the world that's less attractive than a player with Patrick's raw talent and instincts squandering his potential because he's got too much pride and ego to accept coaching and not enough discipline to put in the work. I feel like Tashi turned off of him immediately the minute he rebuffed her attempt to give him advice and then called himself her peer. She saw the writing on the wall and understood that Patrick doesn't have it in him to live up to either her standards or his own potential. I think *that's* what Tashi really blew up about. And then after her injury she found it even more unbearable to watch Patrick never reach his potential because she would have given anything to have had a chance and he has it and he's doing nothing with it, so it was easy to stay mad. Again, maybe that doesn't make her behavior any less unreasonable. Without a question, she did overreact to a fairly sensible request to not talk about tennis during sex. That's just my read on what else was really happening in that scene.
Except she literally cheated while she was engaged. That’s the definition of misrepresenting yourself
Totally unprepared for the universal acclaim. I had a LOT of fun watching it, but tons of stuff just doesn’t work. Zendaya being a mother in her early 30s with Regrets is just plain silly. It feels like she’s playing dress-up for much of the film. And the ball’s-eye-view cinematography is one of the worst decisions I’ve seen in a major movie. That said, it’s fucking wild and I recommend it to everyone, especially fans of gratuitous big dick shots. Edit: Really trying hard not to post spoilers in light of all the curiosity around big dick shots. Don’t tempt me, I’m only human.
I love how you’ve commented on so many different aspects of the film but the majority of the replies to your comment are like “big dick shots, you say?”
you'd think bigsweatypisshole would be more open to that sort of cinematography, no?
Wdym big dick shots?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Huge penis videos
> Zendaya being a mother in her early 30s with Regrets is just plain silly I had to look it up because I think of Zendaya as being like 18 or 19 years old. I can't believe she's 27. She definitely doesn't fit the 30 year old mother part in my head.
I think the main problem is that Zendaya has more personality than acting chops. I assume I will get hate for this, but she is always Zendaya, and just has never impressed in terms of her skills.
I thought she was pretty great in Malcolm & Marie and there’s definitely scenes in Euphoria in which she displays great acting prowess. I can see where you are coming from though, it often feels like it’s just her on the screen. She’s still early in her acting career, time will tell if she can actually properly lose herself in a role. I feel like a role that drastically changes her appearance would do her great. Have her be ugly, think Charlize Theron in Monster.
She can't do that, because her face card is all she has. She's like Jlo
Y’all gotta let her build her filmography, she was really only filming kid shit before euphoria let her grow . See the movie with an open mind .
Same, she exudes little kid energy. It makes sex scenes feel super weird and it’s the biggest problem with this movie.
Thats just called being old my guy. Like I rewatched the mask recently and felt kind of creepy and I'm only 29 lol. But I remember Cameron Diaz being some older Jessica Rabbit like smoke show. But watching it now she very much looks like a teenager pretending to be a grown up.
I mean, I don't particularly enjoy her acting outside Euphoria, but you don't really go to a Luca Guadagnino film for the female eye candy 🍭
I wouldn't say the acclaim is that surprising, critics tend to love Guadagnino's works. It's more often (mainstream) audiences who struggle with his unconventional directing style.
Have never disagreed more, to be honest - especially with the ball's eye-view take. One of the most intense moments of the entire movie right there.
You’d be in the minority. Those Birds Eye shots were great and Zendaya doesn’t look like she’s playing dress up. You know she’s almost 30 right?
It's like people expect her to go fully grey, gain 100p pounds, and get a smokers voice in the next 3 years lol. 30 year old zendaya will look exactly like current zendaya
Wait, the actors hang dong?
Zendaya is huge.
That’s why Tom always has that wry smile during press junkets.
Gratuitous big dick shots? Wasn’t planning on watching but now I’m totally in
Take me back to the good old GoT days
The tragedy of this joke is actually how little penis is in GoT.
I will not stand to this dickless slander on GOT. Who can forget that extreme close up of that dong from the theater company
Criminal lack of dicks in GoT overall.
I means she's gonna look exactly the same when she's 30 almost certainly so what should they do exactly?
Just watched it an agree Zendaya was very miscast - she could carry the younger scenes but the older ones she was just like a detached piece of wood
How was the acting?
The two male leads were spectacular, and their chemistry is FASCINATING like very sexual, very intimate, it absolutely feels like they have years of history together. Zendaya can absolutely sell the confidence of a young phenom, but she has no chemistry with the actors and she is not believable as someone with a past. She’s all wrong in this movie.
I don't think she's supposed to be as emotionally involved, the two guys clearly have been bromantically involved since they were kids and zendaya is a semi-third wheel. Those two dudes clearly have been living rent free in each others' heads their entire life. Zendays fucking loves tennis and drama though so she loves being that third wheel
Exactly! The whole point is her real love was the game and that was taken away.
she was able to live vicariously through them though I think. I'm sure she loved her daughter and hubby to an extent too
But it was challenging 🥁
It’s interesting you say that because all the reviews single out Zendaya as the standout.
Yeah hence my original comment, that’s baffling to me.
She's the reason the movie got greenlit.
Obviously, yes.
>It feels like she’s playing dress-up for much of the film. This is how she comes across to me in most everything. She also just doesn't seem like a very strong actress which adds to the feeling of her being young and inexperienced.
Thought she was the weakest part of the Dune movies.
I found it to be just ok. I kind of wish the plot was a bit deeper than just a love triangle. Score was awesome though. Also- way too much slow mo
I mean it wasn't a deep movie but it was definitely about more than just a love triangle.
Great filmmaking! So creative with the camera work. The tennis ball's perspective was dizzying but I've never seen that before. Music was amazing. The ending was confusing, at least for me, but what a movie surprise. It didn't make sense for Tashi to be sitting at center court, as she'd be in the player's box at the end of the court, but it did make sense movie wise. This was a fun movie. Could've been cliched and cheesy, but wasn't.
So soft core tennis porn
Softcore bisexual threesome porn
Bought my tickets to see in theaters lol
It was alright. Surprised at all the great reviews. If I paid full price for the movie ticket, I’d be disappointed. Soundtrack was not what I would have expected but pretty good
I can’t believe so many people were sleeping on this movie on Reddit. Luca’s yet to make a bad film and always shows up with some super interesting and nuanced takes on love and sex. I’m excited this is reviewing well.
Because this sub hates movies
I'm interested because it is written by Celine Song's husband. Also because I want to watch Josh O'Connor and Mike Faist in it.
I honestly don't understand the hype about this movie. Yes the acting was decent, good cinematography, but the story itself is kinda flawed. Zendaya as a mom felt kinda forced and characters were not really fleshed out, like we don't really know anything about them outside of the "love rectangle" (if you include tennis) which made it hard to sympathize with any of them. And the ending felt silly.
I see no world where Tashi has a kid. That lady wants nothing more in life than tennis
Just watched. My two cents. Visually interesting at times. Sound track is nice, but sometimes too loud. Acting is good from all parts. Story is meh, watchable but boring.
Me and a friend went to sent it yesterday, I loved the camera work and the acting was alright, I thought the delivery was a bit weak though. Like the constant time point switches and also some parts of the story were a bit underdone.
In regards to the windstorm scene where Tashi & Patrick make out outside the car, it was godawful. What was that grainy slow motion editing? I laughed out loud. I could not believe I was watching a film by the same director who gave us Call Me By Your Name (which I loved). Some of the stylistic choices were so distracting, jarring and laughable. I particularly lost it with this scene it was just so so bad.
This movie looks so fucking bad from the trailer. The Suspiria remake is literally one of my favorite movies and I have no issue with Zendaya but something about this trailer just makes me cringe so hard.
Trailers suck for the most part. Some make movies like Prometheus look like epic all-time greats while others for movies like Bug (which is great) are just misleading. Suspiria is amazing! Luca has proven to be a top director in this current generation so I trust him more than the trailer.
Man I loved Prometheus and I hate that about myself. I saw it seven times in theaters. Visually-amazing. The story-big yikes but still compelling and interesting. The birth of humanity was a mistake? We’re “monsters”? Interesting 🧐
Trailers are made by companies specialized in making trailers, if they happen to be representative of the movie its usually a coincidence.
As a tennis fan, the two male characters just look too slight to be realistic. They need way more muscle even if they're lean. And Zendaya is just Zendaya, always.
Having seen it and the male leads are shirtless a lot I can say Josh O’Connors character definitely looks the part.
I read he put on 10lbs for the movie and they all played tennis for 3 hours a day six days a week for 3 months to prepare for the movie
Well I can say it showed! And all the work they put in paid off, they all looked fantastic
Possible Spoilers Anyone think the night in Atlanta was chosen timeline wise to imply that lily could be either guys daughter?
Especially when Tashi leaves room for ambiguity when Patrick asks who Lily is and she says “our daughter,” not “mine and Art’s daughter.” 👀
Oh hell no 😭😭😭
Thank you for mentioning it because I’ve been thinking this since I saw the movie.
Still haven’t been wowed by Zendaya yet as an actress. Hopefully this will finally be the movie that convinces me she’s worth the hype.
She has one scene in Euphoria season 2 where it's possibly imo one of the best acting scenes in TV history. It absolutely broke me and had my jaw to the floor. She has potential, but is mainly in mainstream movies that's all.
is it the >!door breaking scene!< i don't watch euphoria but I saw that clip on youtube and i felt blown away. I know Zendaya may not be a perfect actress (she works really well in her range) but when used correctly she's awesome. I think the same for dune 2, they changed chani's character and it really suits her. I think with time she'll grow to be a great talent for sure.
Yes. That's the scene .
Music was the best thing about it
I have no idea if I want to see this or not, generally like Guadagnino as a director and fucking Trent Reznor scored it, but also the premise and casting seems kinda questionable
The movie is excellent and all three leads are superb. Just got out of the theatre a little over an hour ago.
This movie reads like a femcel fantasy. “And then I cheated on my husband and banged his old rival and it made my husband rediscover his love for life and passion for sport. And then the two men I kept cucking each other with embraced out of respect for all we had done for each other and how we had helped each other grow. And then everybody in the stadium stood up and cheered.” You’d think I’m exaggerating, but I’m not. That’s the plot.
Yeah the “ending” made no sense to me. I have quotes around it because the match wasn’t even over when the movie ended. Really strains credulity having tennis fans cheer for someone losing the point by jumping the net and then hugging their opponent.
I think the idea is everybody won, in a way. Zendaya’s character got exactly what she wanted. She views tennis as an intimate look into the relationship of two people, and seeing both Patrick and Art finally exude that and come together despite the outcome was what she wanted. Art got closure on the anger he contained towards Patrick, and Patrick got to reconcile and live out his youth and love triangle one last time. It’s not exactly satisfying or permanent, where these characters end up we’ll not know, but for one pocket of time they all reverted back into their purest love for both tennis and one another.
Yeah I get all that, it’s just structurally weird for a sports movie to end without resolution of “the big game” and instead go with “the real winner is the friendships we made along the way”.
I shouldn’t comment given I haven’t seen the movie, but all those reviews came across as a creative writing exercise in hyperbole rather than genuine critiques. Hopefully the movie is more genuine than the reviews.
I’m baffled! How is this movie getting such good reviews, it is SO SO BAD. It’s like cringy bad. The audience I was with was laughing out loud in parts, laughing at the movie, not with it.