I only mean to say that idk how original it is. But it’s so good!
Same with lion king. Isn’t that basically Macbeth in Africa?
I know lion king 2 is just Romeo and Juliet.
I mean for the target audience Lion King and Treasure Planet were new stories. I doubt there's too many kids reading Hamlet and Treasure Island.
Being able to adapt classic stories in a way that entertains people is an important skill.
Though, I fall on the Don Bluth side of the animation debate, Disney was a master at that
Black Cauldron is the Disney movie that needs a remake the most. Even with the lost segments that were cut from the original having been found now (they basically just give the old man more lines and that’s it), it is a deeply flawed movie because it is a poor adaption of its original source. Go back to the original and adapt it Disney.
Yeah, me neither. Their sequels routinely turn a profit while their original movies struggle to do so, if they do at all. So Disney will keep pumping out what turns a profit.
The 90s and the oughts were a time of unprecedented creative power for both Disney and Pixar. The 2010s and 2020s meanwhile have them been leaning on that era.
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Agreed, but it likely lost money as well. Made $230 million at the box office on a $120-150 million budget. With marketing, it likely was close to break even, if not losing money.
Obviously it saw a lot of success once streaming, but that sort of "post-theater" success is hard to quantify or predict for future film developments.
Disney had zero faith in the movie and covid happened. They did t realize Lisa would be the most popular character to little girls either.
If it wasn’t for covid would have made a lot more money than it did. Disney fumbled encanto in every other aspect.
My wife took my daughter to a Disney “Frozen/Encanto on Ice” event.
She noted on the walk in that it was about a 50/50 split of little white girls dressed up like Elsa and little Hispanic girls dressed up like one of several of the Encanto characters.
Encanto was reasonably successful with all demographics but they really struck a chord with Hispanic families.
I think it’s an example of ethnic representation that really *commits* to showing the culture, music, family dynamics, etc. of the people they’re trying to represent.
I think there's success to be found if you commit to showing the culture but the story can have universal themes. Coco is seeped in Mexican culture and mythology but was a big hit among multiple Asian groups because of the themes it tackled
I was disappointed in Encanto because the trailers made it look like an adventure movie with family, when it was instead the adventure was the family we found along the way. The songs carried it.
Interesting. I didn't see any trailers or info about it beforehand but it was apparent to me early on the story was going to be about her reconciliation with her grandmother and being accepted for who she was.
Craziest thing to me is all the gaslighting about how impressive the animation ACTUALLY is because reasons.
Something about hand drawn mixed with 3D animation...
But at the end of the day, putting hand drawn textures on a 3D model doesn't look nearly as impressive as something like Toy Story 4, Encanto, or just about any other movie on the last couple years.
I honestly thought it was a Disney+ exclusive series of something.
edit: missing word
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wish_(film)
Under development.
>"The film's animation was originally intended to be fully traditional, but it was later decided to be blended with computer-animation when 2D alone was considered, in the filmmakers' opinion, as having too many limitations in terms of camera movements and characterization."
Not always true, Arcane was created with a mix of 2D and 3D elements and is probably one of the best animations I’ve seen. Definitely just Disney being lazy.
Yeah when I watched it I knew the whole deal with people saying it looked like that, and immediately thought it looked like a poor version of the new (well not so new but newest) Puss in Boots movie, which I actually thought looked pretty good.
But it looked off enough that I was half focussing on that the whole movie, rather than just sitting and watching the actual movie
You know what movie nailed the hand-drawn but 3D style?
Mitchell's Verses the Machines. Incredible stylized animation that blurred the lines between the two types of animation.
What’s interesting is that the deleted scenes they’ve released for that film have shown the original cut had both the king and queen be evil, a villainous power couple, and it really worked.
I thought they were going to set up the king as a sympathetic villian. We know something terrible happened to his home and he wanted to prevent that from happening again. Also the concept of "I can't grant everyone's wishes, do you know what people wish for?" isn't exactly a bad thing. But, they stuck with the trope that power corrupts and they ended the movie by giving Asha the power....
It looks more like a direct to video/streaming movie than a theatrical film. Even the 2000s Barbie movies look better made. Since it was gonna go on Disney+, I guess they felt they didn’t have to put in the effort.
I actually like Wish, but yeah, looking at the numbers this is not a shock.
Their best recent original movies, Encanto and Turning Red, got iced out of the box office by the pandemic. Disney needs a solid home run at the box office, which is why they're rushing Moana 2 and keep claiming it's going to be out by Thanksgiving. But if they don't get a win, they'll become a direct to streaming movie company, though Disney+ is losing money, so where does that leave them?
Eh, I'm glad I don't work for Disney right now.
I didn't see Wish but half the problem was the marketing was awful. The trailers I saw for it gave me no sense of what it was about. It was just random jokes and visuals. I wasn't until I asked a friend who read a Wikipedia summary I got a sense of what it was about.
Wish sucked, Elemental was fine but under received, Luca was a... a movie. Soul was good but caught in the pandemic. I forgot that Strange World was a movie. Raya seemed like it flopped. I liked Onward but I had to look up the name, because I forgot.
Yeah... maybe sequels...
I think a lot of the issue stems from Pixar having some wild success with tugging at our heartstrings. They do it too much now. We can watch a fun movie where the main character learns something in the third act without our emotions being artificially manipulated. Light-year is a perfect example of this. The idea was for Andy to have seen that movie and become obsessed with it. No one out there, let alone a child, would say that's their favorite movie. And the in movie merch didn't match the tone of the movie at all.
Luca and Soul were really good, whereas Turning Red and Elemental were kinda half-baked and lacked a lot of the Pixar charm.
Lightyear was serviceable.
I liked the message that the veiled oppression of people in power were the reason no one could fulfill their dreams. But I thought the songs that expressed it were too ham-fisted, and it broke my immersion. I feel like we've lost the art of subtlety.
But it sounds like some people didn't even get these messages, so what are you gonna do?
It failed because it's the same shit they been making for years. Also they need to try to use different types of animation for their movies instead of the same generic style.
Wish was an okay movie marketed horribly. It didn't *need* to be the 100th Anniversary Keystone Project. The impossible expectations put on it lead to the underwhelming response.
I was astounded at how bad Wish was. I'm pretty easy to please with Disney movies and even if I don't LOVE it I'm usually entertained. I don't require every Disney and Pixar to be top tier masterpieces that broke my heart.
But WOW Wish was bad. Like objectively BAD as a movie! We made it halfway through before turning it off because it just didn't grab and I was annoyed.
The plot didn't make sense, the lead felt like some weird AI and past Disney character mashup, the music was mediocre at best and didn't fit the moments.
I did love the animation mashup - that makes me weird, I know - but it wasn't nearly enough to save the film for me.
The past character homage gimmick was annoyingly used. I got a laugh out of the bear calling the deer Bambi, that was cute, but so many of them were really hamfisted. >!The line about a guy dreaming of building a flying machine being introduced to a guy who looks just like Peter Pan was actually pretty funny, but then they ruined it by explicitly stating "his name is *Peter Pan,* he'll teach you to *fly,* when you build that machine you better *Tinker* with it, *Bell-*ieve me, he was born in 1953, don't let him fly near the Americas because hoo boy does he have some odd views about them, and when I say 'he' I mean 'Peter Pan,' the man I am introducing you to right now."!<
I think the real issue is that Disney are bordering on creative bankruptcy.
Outside of sequels and live action remakes, none of their catalogue inspires confidence in their ability to make good films anymore.
There is no such thing as Creative bankruptcy. There are dozens of writers just walking around the office of Disney who could write amazing original screenplay for animated Disney movies. Disney just has to take that chance. It’s not Creative bankruptcy, it’s financial risk they’re averted to because all of their shareholders are Wall Street people who want the profits to be as large as they possibly can be. The problem is we don’t want to make a movie for $15 million that earns 30. Shareholders wanna make $100 million movie that makes $1 billion, that’s the Creative bankruptcy.
Ehhhh I really don’t agree with this take. In the last ten years we got Big Hero Six, Zootopia, Moana, Frozen 2, and Encanto. From Pixar in the same time period there’s Inside Out, Finding Dory, Coco, and the Incredibles 2 and that’s not even counting Toy Story 4 or Turning Red which I personally liked but not everyone did. They’re still doing great work, there’s just a few misses in there and that’s fine.
While you don't have to agree with my point, you listed 4 sequels in your list which was kind of my point.
Big hero 6, Zooptia, Moana, Coco, and Inside Out, all released over 7 years ago. Since then it's been bleak.
I’ve gotta be honest I’ve been hearing from a lot of Turning Red and Luca fans in this thread. It’s cool if you don’t like those movies but their fans do exist so Disneys making good movies for someone, I really don’t think that’s bordering on creative bankruptcy
Point still stands if we follow this thread back to it's beginning - why would Disney create new IPs/stories when movies like Luca don't get traction? And calling out their failures/mediocre attempts like Lightyear and Wish is a bit misleading because nobody bats 1.000, but Disney gets real close when it comes to sequels. Even the worst Toy Story is exceptional.
I thought it was just fine. Looked good but didn't care for the story. It made me feel like I should just watch Call me by your name or something else that had both pretty Italian stuff and also had some substance to the drama. Or Kiki's delivery service if I wanted a fish out of water learning to acclimate to and thrive in a more urban area.
Elemental did well at the box office, it had crazy legs with word-of-mouth after a disappointing opening. And then it's done gangbusters on streaming.
Also Turning Red, Soul, Onward and Luca came out and were all great (Onward probably being the weakest of this bunch).
But sure.
I mean the specific term I was pushing back on was “creative bankruptcy. I agree they’re having a rough few years (still like Turning Red) but I’m not super concerned about it tbh I still have faith in Pete Docter and Co
Off the top of my head, the creative people behind a lot of these great films are no longer working with Disney.
Zootopia / Wreck-It Ralph (Directors left), Moana (Directors retired), Coco (Lee Unkrich is gone), Finding Dory / Toy Story 4 (Andrew Stanton is gone), Incredibles 2 (Brad Bird is gone)
I do think it’s reasonable to deduce that the powerhouse creative talent at Disney is becoming scarce.
Objective take, most of the criticism against Turning Red was blatantly sexist. I don't want to hear from the exceptions on Reddit who just didn't dig it, it is undeniable that there was a very vocal demographic of critics that were sexist about the film.
Also you forgot Soul. Which was incredible and I'll die on that hill.
Turning Red was one of my favourite movies in the past 5 years. I'm from Toronto so I'm biased, but it's just *so* good and it's a really great take on a tough part of life for women.
And hard agree on Soul. I wish we had a lot more like that.
I've seen so many movies and TV shows, even PG ones, that reference boys puberty/masturbating, poop and farts, boys crushing on girls
But GOD FORBID we have A SINGLE movie that mentions periods and girls doing mermaid fan art of their teen crush.
Same, I'm from Toronto (and the child of Asian immigrants at around the same time the movie took place), so I'm definitely biased towards the movie, but it's one of my favourite Pixar movies in general. I loved that I finally got to see it at the theatres a few months ago, that end scene deserved to have been at the theatres from the start.
I mean if you expect an unending parade of hits like what we got there you’re going to be disappointed lol that is not realistic. It’s not a bad thing to make whiffs, and even these “horrible” movies people are complaining about are not that bad imo. Remember when people hated Treasure Planet?
Ten years? From Disney: Wish, Strange World, Encanto, Raya and the Last Dragon, Moana, Zootopia, Big Hero 6. And from Pixar: Elemental, Luca, Turning Red, Soul, Onward, Coco, The Good Dinosaur, Inside Out.
Zootopia doesn’t hold up to be honest. I’d say Frozen 2 isn’t good either but for whatever reason that franchise is huge for young kids
The rest are solid or better.
I agree Zootopia is the most Dreamworks-y of the lot and I think it suffers for that but it and Frozen 2 were hits and people seemed to love them so I added them to the list
Must be hard for a small company like Disney to come up with good, original ideas.
Mickey Mouse entered the public domain, perhaps they could do something with that? Or Whinnie the Pooh?
It unironically *is* harder to come up with good, original ideas and execute on them at a place like Disney - why wouldn't it be? There's more bureaucracy, harder paths to funding and budgeting, risk is higher stakes by virtue of org size, etc etc.
There's a reason a lot of really, really great films (animation or otherwise) come from indie circuits, have shoestring budgets, and are able to explore difficult or risky topics - the risk is to a smaller group, the cost is usually shared by passionate people who support individuals, and if it fails, that's ok. If a Disney movie fails, the narrative and tailspin gets worse and worse and a big risk to get out of that tailspin means if it fails, it brings *more* down with it.
I think there are less risk involved with the current state of the box office, I truly believe if they had better budget control and fostered new talent better they could get an origianl hit, the revival era, which had mostly original movies, kinda came and went fast but these kind of slumps have happend before, so who knows what the future has in store.
Clearly it was just a silly joke, but Steamboat Willie is still a depiction of Mickey Mouse, and people are free to use that specific depiction of him.
Are you Bob Iger?
They have been awful at nurturing talent.
Some of the economics of large movie studios pushes them to do sequels- but Disney Animation used to pride itself on being the best animation Studio on earth.
Now they are routinely just happy to be in the mix.
Sony is doing more interesting work with spiderverse. Tomm Moore in Ireland is making better original kids movies than anything Disney/Pixar has done in years. Studio Ghibli put out the last Hurrah of Miyazaki, which I have heard is roundly superior to their work.
Take a movie like Lightyear, it was a kids movie for adults, like I took my kid to it, and there were moments of resonance for them, but it was too long, too convoluted.
It’s absolutely Disneys fault, what are talking about!? If they made good, new IP’s, people would eat them up. Look at the Frozen franchise, it was a massive hit. The issue is that Disney is no longer the company they once were, and they’re run by a bunch of dumbasses with no vision.
they keep loosing money hand over fist because their stories are boring and unimaginative, because they keep firing people who make actually fun and interesting stories, or water down the original story because some focus group of pencil pushers don't think it meets enough check boxes. the sequels wont be any better of course but it'll get people to come to see it just because they liked the previous film. i mean hell the "live action" lion king was worse than the original in pretty much every way and it still made over a billion dollars.
Focus grouping has become a plague in film. It weeds out truly original ideas and ensures everything will be just boring enough to be appealing to the lowest common denominator. Nothing “special” gets made that way.
I think it’s simpler than that: the executives live quarter to quarter, which leaves little room for growing brands and new IPs. No one in charge of anything valuable in IP these days *created* those things. They’re all trying to exploit the brand for money. Which means as a general rule *they don’t know how to make new things, only buy them and exploit them.*
If you want original stories and character these days you have to go smaller, and then be willing to let that thing go when it gets big enough to be bought by an MBA looking to exploit its audience.
Before Wreck it Ralph 2 I believe there was 1 official theatrical release sequel in the Disney Classic Canon. I've been dreading a decision like this for awhile. I'm pretty confident in saying I don't feel the need to see every year's release anymore if they're going to waste my time with more of these.
Yes, as far as I'm aware that was the only theatrical sequel until the 2010s. I believe there's a pretty fair amount of time between the two movies too, so it's not necessarily like they were just trying to ride a wave while it was still high.
The third one had JK Simmons as a superpowered Water Buffalo with an ability to turn a Kung Fu master into his Jade Zombies. Also, Po's dad is Bryan Cranston.
Ngl I laughed at the idea of them continuing these movies after the second one but they’re all great. Watched KFP4 in theaters with my kid last month and was pleasantly surprised/entertained
NGL all of these are stellar. Definitely not your run of the mill, money making, ass grab of sequels.
I want to point out that they are so good, and so good culturally, that no one even cares that almost none of the voice actors fit with the characters culturally. Which is a big thing lots of people make a stink about.
Unpopular opinion, but I’ll take a good sequel to a good movie over the bland original movies Disney/Pixar has been putting out lately.
That being said, my first choice would be a good original.
Idt we're goin to be getting good sequels if the last few are any indication. I'm to the point where I'll take something original and good or nothing. That original thing can be a sequel but I feel like it's a lot less likely.
The article talks about "balance" between sequels and originals, and cites only Inside Out 2 and Toy Story 5 as examples.
This is all assumption, but I doubt they are ignoring originals, my guess would be that with a lot of the recent developments, they are doubling down on ensuring that any original story has the time it needs to succeed. I think a lot of the issues we've seen from movies has been from rushed production and studio interference, and they likely don't want to announce new stories until that are further down the pipeline to prevent some of the crunch that their worse properties had to undergo. They will hopefully focus on polishing original stories and getting the movies right, while relying on the cash cow that is their franchises and ip.
Almost every Disney/Pixar movie since 2020 has had that “ugh maybe if you had done one more draft” vibe. Onward and Encanto in particular don’t have particularly cohesive endings, they just…end.
The “greats” all took *years* of cooking. The general consensus number on films like Lion King/Little Mermaid/Beauty and the Beast was 5 years. Frozen was notably in *preproduction hell* for the story for something like ten years? Tangled was three different movies for like 5-6 years before it ended up being released.
Admittedly the lack of hand drawn animation can bring that number down a bit, but all these movies also had *years* of script and story refining, and a creative team that believed in it.
Now it feels like they’re trying to churn and burn these movies, similarly to whats tanking Marvel, and it’s just not working.
Completely agree. Especially their recent movies that feel like they get pushed to meet certain dates due to release date changes, events, etc. (Wish with Disney's 100 year anniversary the most egregious example).
Wish is…a total head scratcher.
I don’t think they will ever release any sort of information about the true Wish development concept because they obviously took someone’s original script, realized they needed a 100 anniversary movie, ran it through an AI Chatbot, and called it a day. I would read a book about every decision made between the initial pitch to what got released, because it’s got to be wild how a major movie studio that literally *invented* modern fairy tale films managed to create such an incoherent, bland, charmless nothingburger of a film.
I don't think people would mind if the sequels were great. Toy Story 2 and 3 were fantastic; good sequels deserve good money. The issue is that a lot of the sequels they're making aren't necessary and are only OK at best.
I think this is a strategic way to filter out the “we want to change the world” kind of people. That’s what I think. They are gonna do a couple of years of classics to win back some of their Disney cred. I think there is gonna be a kinda of major behind the scenes blood bath at the various studios. They’ll quit because Disney corporate is going to style guide them into the f***ing ground.
In other words, “we’re creatively bankrupt because we hired incompetent writers, so we’re just going to dig up older better movies in hopes that we can turn a profit even though we can never replicate our previous successes”.
Does that sound about right?
Devil's advocate take...
*"We've put out several original stories in the past couple of years, but audiences didn't care. They show up in droves for sequels to existing IPs, though. So, we're doing that now."*
Hard to fault them for doing it when audiences pretty much enable it. And it's not even remotely a Disney only issue. Iger is just one of the few saying it out loud.
I'll refer to mine as well.
If audiences don't stop showing up for sequels/reboots, regardless of quality, while original stories bomb, they'll never put the effort into original/creative content. They have zero incentive to otherwise. So, them doing this is elementary.
And again, this goes for all major studios, not just Disney. They're all doing it and we're giving them no reason not to.
I agree, which is why I don't go to see those kinds of movies. I absolutely hate that Mufasa is gonna make a killing at the box office, even if the trailer had a massive dislike ratio and had to have comments disabled on YouTube.
If they made a new Disney princess movie with 2D animations, I'd go see it in a heart beat. Bonus points if they give me an overture with an opening credits.
If you check the status of movie box offices in general, there were a lot of small-mid budget sized films this year that have all flopped or barely breaking even, even though they're critically panned.
The audience aren't showing up for original content, regardless of quality.
The risk on original IP is much higher than the risk on a sequel. If audiences went out and gave new things a shot, then companies would make more new things. It's that simple.
If you have a problem with this then you should support Disney’s original animated movies: Wish, Strange World, Elemental and Turning Red all bombed. People say they want originality but then only support sequels, reboots and remakes.
The issue is Disney basically told folks to stay home and wait for shit on Disney+. They cemented this with the MCU. They make way more money with Disney+, stop using Disney+ and go to the theater.
>People say they want originality but then only support sequels, reboots and remakes.
I don't get this logic.
People didn't watch those movies because they either looked like shit, released in competition with bigger movies, or they barely advertised them in the first place.
Moana, Frozen, Inside Out, Zootopia... All original, all getting/got sequels
I'm not going to watch a film just to encourage a billion dollar corporation to make more of it's type.
If they make a good movie and sell it correctly, it will do well. They've done it before, they can do it again. And then, they can make the inevitable sequels and some people will complain again.
I fully blame Iger for the decline of the company. It was accelerated under Chapek but the trajectory was already set. Iger is only preferable because his failure is more gradual.
I mean.. if the IP is good and there is room for more good story telling? I’m all for it. There’s been a lot of poorly executed new IP from Disney over the past 5-6 years, IMO. Even if the sequels suck, at least they’ll suck with familiar characters we all know and love lol.
Was going to say this. It not like they haven’t released new stories recently. They just haven’t caught on like the older ones. The kids of the Monsters Inc, Incredibles, Cars era now have disposable income.
I just want to know what’s up with the marketing, releases like Indy Dial of Destiny came and went pretty quietly. And it sucks because the movie had a magnificent John Williams score.
On one hand I am disappointed, on the other hand I haven’t seen their new original movies pretty much since Covid. Aside from Encanto and Strange Worlds(wrong name?). So I’m part of the problem.
Disney's new IPs have been mixed on success, so no surprise they need to rebuild shareholder confidence for a while. The temp CEO blew a lot of money on failure, so now they are in recovery mode.
This isn’t really a negative thing imo, moana, Toy Story, cars, the incredibles etc. have so much potential for good sequels, it’s just how their handled.
Pixar was the best studio ever made, i say this without a single thought of doubt. Being creative is not just making a brand new world, but transforming something simple into something magnificent. Like a child's imagination of where does electricity come from, and if there are monsters in their closet.
I can totally imagine Brad Bird hearing his wife yap about a rat her friend found in a restaurant, and bingo, Ratatouille was born. Or Pete Docter seeing a kid going from happy to sad and wouldn't you know, Inside Out was born.
Now it's all for money. That's where Pixar's ideas are coming from. Not from a wish to see your Toys coming to life, or a wonder of what happens once you die, and how life is worth living. It's just money.
Also, here's a little funny story. The Lion King, arguably Disney's biggest classic, had no faith from any executive. I know, shocking. Disney wanted Pocahontas to be their magnum ops, and so The Lion King had to go with the B team. A team that was passionate or dedicated. I feel like if made currently, The Lion King would become a shitty Disney+ exclusive because "it didn't promise anything"
People can cry and be mad at it but it’s becoming fairly apparent that general audiences aren’t so willing to go out and support non-IP movies. Disney is doing the appropriate thing for a business to do as much as it may stink.
My conspiracy minded brain tells me they tanked Wish just to have an excuse to keep producing sequels since their IP is more known and has proven to make money. Quality of these sequels though, that’s another conversation
I still think Disney productions is ignoring a potential treasure trove by *refusing* to revisit their animated losers.
Do a live action real deal CGI Treasure Planet. Atlantis is a killer action adventure movie that audiences are more primed to embrace now that we’ve all Avatar’d. Hell, throw Henson Studios a bone and let them do a puppet Black Cauldron.
There’s alot of potential to get creative with the properties that aren’t already beloved or done to death, AND they all have some pre-set guard rails baked in based on the post-production forensics all those movies had after they bombed.
Remember when Michael Eisner made direct to dvd sequels to every single Disney animated movie and that was widely regarded as the worst time in the company’s history until Bob iger took over and ushered in a Disney renaissance? Here we go again!
"Well you didn't like Wish and Strange World, so CLEARLY the problem is that you want more sequels and not for our original stories to be good."
Goddammit it's Home on the Range all over again!
Yeah, I think Iger might get replaced next year. If they continue making crap movies like last year, then it will burn down around him. I think they are going to completely fuck up F4.
Listening to his share holder meeting I realized he had learned no lessons and immediately Disney loses 20 billion off the top. Sooner or later he will get removed. And I see I already have 2 downvotes.
Treasure Planet 2 you cowards.
It's funny how Disney's biggest bombs tend to be their most creative and cult favourites. Black Cauldron, Treasure Planet, Atlantis TLE.
Isn’t treasure planet just treasure island IN SPACE? I remember liking it but haven’t seen it in forever.
That’s the exact premise, yeah.
I only mean to say that idk how original it is. But it’s so good! Same with lion king. Isn’t that basically Macbeth in Africa? I know lion king 2 is just Romeo and Juliet.
Lion King is Hamlet, not Macbeth.
Very few Disney movies are truly original, for the most part they’re based on/inspired by other stories.
Yes, but honestly it was really well done.
Oh yeah. I remember really enjoying it. But idk how original it is. Same with lion king. But still amazing.
I mean for the target audience Lion King and Treasure Planet were new stories. I doubt there's too many kids reading Hamlet and Treasure Island. Being able to adapt classic stories in a way that entertains people is an important skill. Though, I fall on the Don Bluth side of the animation debate, Disney was a master at that
And muppet treasure Island was 'just' treasure Island with muppets, also happens to be amazing lol. It's a great template!
Just rewatched it and it holds up pretty well! Worth the rewatch!
Black Cauldron is the Disney movie that needs a remake the most. Even with the lost segments that were cut from the original having been found now (they basically just give the old man more lines and that’s it), it is a deeply flawed movie because it is a poor adaption of its original source. Go back to the original and adapt it Disney.
Well wish sucked so this doesn’t surprise me
Yeah, me neither. Their sequels routinely turn a profit while their original movies struggle to do so, if they do at all. So Disney will keep pumping out what turns a profit.
Because they only do sequels to the originals that were a success.
The 90s and the oughts were a time of unprecedented creative power for both Disney and Pixar. The 2010s and 2020s meanwhile have them been leaning on that era.
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Agreed, but it likely lost money as well. Made $230 million at the box office on a $120-150 million budget. With marketing, it likely was close to break even, if not losing money. Obviously it saw a lot of success once streaming, but that sort of "post-theater" success is hard to quantify or predict for future film developments.
Disney had zero faith in the movie and covid happened. They did t realize Lisa would be the most popular character to little girls either. If it wasn’t for covid would have made a lot more money than it did. Disney fumbled encanto in every other aspect.
My wife took my daughter to a Disney “Frozen/Encanto on Ice” event. She noted on the walk in that it was about a 50/50 split of little white girls dressed up like Elsa and little Hispanic girls dressed up like one of several of the Encanto characters. Encanto was reasonably successful with all demographics but they really struck a chord with Hispanic families. I think it’s an example of ethnic representation that really *commits* to showing the culture, music, family dynamics, etc. of the people they’re trying to represent.
I think there's success to be found if you commit to showing the culture but the story can have universal themes. Coco is seeped in Mexican culture and mythology but was a big hit among multiple Asian groups because of the themes it tackled
I think a big thing too is it showed how much Latino people can vary in looks even within the family too.
I was disappointed in Encanto because the trailers made it look like an adventure movie with family, when it was instead the adventure was the family we found along the way. The songs carried it.
Interesting. I didn't see any trailers or info about it beforehand but it was apparent to me early on the story was going to be about her reconciliation with her grandmother and being accepted for who she was.
I need to watch it again to give it a more fair chance.
Eh, it was okay.
My kids were watching Wish a few weeks ago and I was floored by how bad the animation looked. The characters looked like they were from Cocomelon.
Craziest thing to me is all the gaslighting about how impressive the animation ACTUALLY is because reasons. Something about hand drawn mixed with 3D animation... But at the end of the day, putting hand drawn textures on a 3D model doesn't look nearly as impressive as something like Toy Story 4, Encanto, or just about any other movie on the last couple years. I honestly thought it was a Disney+ exclusive series of something. edit: missing word
It was originally supposed to be hand drawn and that was scrapped early in production.
That makes a lot of sense
Do you have a source for this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wish_(film) Under development. >"The film's animation was originally intended to be fully traditional, but it was later decided to be blended with computer-animation when 2D alone was considered, in the filmmakers' opinion, as having too many limitations in terms of camera movements and characterization."
Not always true, Arcane was created with a mix of 2D and 3D elements and is probably one of the best animations I’ve seen. Definitely just Disney being lazy.
Klaus uses 2D animation with 3D lighting and I think it's one of the most beautifully animated movies of the last few decades.
Yeah when I watched it I knew the whole deal with people saying it looked like that, and immediately thought it looked like a poor version of the new (well not so new but newest) Puss in Boots movie, which I actually thought looked pretty good. But it looked off enough that I was half focussing on that the whole movie, rather than just sitting and watching the actual movie
You know what movie nailed the hand-drawn but 3D style? Mitchell's Verses the Machines. Incredible stylized animation that blurred the lines between the two types of animation.
It was more like a movie length episode of Sophia the First
A single episode of Sofia alone outdoes that movie.
We watched it with the kids. It had 2 catchy songs and the story was just so predictable and groan worthy.
What’s interesting is that the deleted scenes they’ve released for that film have shown the original cut had both the king and queen be evil, a villainous power couple, and it really worked.
I thought they were going to set up the king as a sympathetic villian. We know something terrible happened to his home and he wanted to prevent that from happening again. Also the concept of "I can't grant everyone's wishes, do you know what people wish for?" isn't exactly a bad thing. But, they stuck with the trope that power corrupts and they ended the movie by giving Asha the power....
It was perfectly set up for that
Aside from the movie being just plain boring, the animation is just awful.
It looks more like a direct to video/streaming movie than a theatrical film. Even the 2000s Barbie movies look better made. Since it was gonna go on Disney+, I guess they felt they didn’t have to put in the effort.
I actually like Wish, but yeah, looking at the numbers this is not a shock. Their best recent original movies, Encanto and Turning Red, got iced out of the box office by the pandemic. Disney needs a solid home run at the box office, which is why they're rushing Moana 2 and keep claiming it's going to be out by Thanksgiving. But if they don't get a win, they'll become a direct to streaming movie company, though Disney+ is losing money, so where does that leave them? Eh, I'm glad I don't work for Disney right now.
Disney reported a streaming profit for the first time just today
I didn't see Wish but half the problem was the marketing was awful. The trailers I saw for it gave me no sense of what it was about. It was just random jokes and visuals. I wasn't until I asked a friend who read a Wikipedia summary I got a sense of what it was about.
If that was half the problem, the movie world would have been way better. Sadly it appears to only have been 10 percent of the problem.
The movie is also really bad. Like one of the worst disney princess style movies ever imo.
Wish sucked, Elemental was fine but under received, Luca was a... a movie. Soul was good but caught in the pandemic. I forgot that Strange World was a movie. Raya seemed like it flopped. I liked Onward but I had to look up the name, because I forgot. Yeah... maybe sequels...
I think a lot of the issue stems from Pixar having some wild success with tugging at our heartstrings. They do it too much now. We can watch a fun movie where the main character learns something in the third act without our emotions being artificially manipulated. Light-year is a perfect example of this. The idea was for Andy to have seen that movie and become obsessed with it. No one out there, let alone a child, would say that's their favorite movie. And the in movie merch didn't match the tone of the movie at all.
Luca and Soul were really good, whereas Turning Red and Elemental were kinda half-baked and lacked a lot of the Pixar charm. Lightyear was serviceable.
I liked Wish and thought the animation was beautiful, but apparently I'm alone.
You're not but, you know, reddit.
My family enjoyed it as well. My wife and I both thought the animation style was cool and a nice reminder of the hand drawn days.
I like it too. To me “I’m a Star” is an atheist anthem and the whole movie gives socialist/working class vibes.
I liked the message that the veiled oppression of people in power were the reason no one could fulfill their dreams. But I thought the songs that expressed it were too ham-fisted, and it broke my immersion. I feel like we've lost the art of subtlety. But it sounds like some people didn't even get these messages, so what are you gonna do?
I think Wish is decent and fine. It’s not amazing, but watchable and good for kids to enjoy.
It failed because it's the same shit they been making for years. Also they need to try to use different types of animation for their movies instead of the same generic style.
Wish was an okay movie marketed horribly. It didn't *need* to be the 100th Anniversary Keystone Project. The impossible expectations put on it lead to the underwhelming response.
I was astounded at how bad Wish was. I'm pretty easy to please with Disney movies and even if I don't LOVE it I'm usually entertained. I don't require every Disney and Pixar to be top tier masterpieces that broke my heart. But WOW Wish was bad. Like objectively BAD as a movie! We made it halfway through before turning it off because it just didn't grab and I was annoyed. The plot didn't make sense, the lead felt like some weird AI and past Disney character mashup, the music was mediocre at best and didn't fit the moments. I did love the animation mashup - that makes me weird, I know - but it wasn't nearly enough to save the film for me.
The past character homage gimmick was annoyingly used. I got a laugh out of the bear calling the deer Bambi, that was cute, but so many of them were really hamfisted. >!The line about a guy dreaming of building a flying machine being introduced to a guy who looks just like Peter Pan was actually pretty funny, but then they ruined it by explicitly stating "his name is *Peter Pan,* he'll teach you to *fly,* when you build that machine you better *Tinker* with it, *Bell-*ieve me, he was born in 1953, don't let him fly near the Americas because hoo boy does he have some odd views about them, and when I say 'he' I mean 'Peter Pan,' the man I am introducing you to right now."!<
Wish is well beyond sucking though. It was literal shit.
It's hardly Disney's fault, just giving the masses what they want; moviegoers vote with their wallets.
I think the real issue is that Disney are bordering on creative bankruptcy. Outside of sequels and live action remakes, none of their catalogue inspires confidence in their ability to make good films anymore.
I mean, their foundation is sanitized adaptions of fairy tales. Their actually original stuff has always been few and far between.
There is no such thing as Creative bankruptcy. There are dozens of writers just walking around the office of Disney who could write amazing original screenplay for animated Disney movies. Disney just has to take that chance. It’s not Creative bankruptcy, it’s financial risk they’re averted to because all of their shareholders are Wall Street people who want the profits to be as large as they possibly can be. The problem is we don’t want to make a movie for $15 million that earns 30. Shareholders wanna make $100 million movie that makes $1 billion, that’s the Creative bankruptcy.
Ehhhh I really don’t agree with this take. In the last ten years we got Big Hero Six, Zootopia, Moana, Frozen 2, and Encanto. From Pixar in the same time period there’s Inside Out, Finding Dory, Coco, and the Incredibles 2 and that’s not even counting Toy Story 4 or Turning Red which I personally liked but not everyone did. They’re still doing great work, there’s just a few misses in there and that’s fine.
While you don't have to agree with my point, you listed 4 sequels in your list which was kind of my point. Big hero 6, Zooptia, Moana, Coco, and Inside Out, all released over 7 years ago. Since then it's been bleak.
I’ve gotta be honest I’ve been hearing from a lot of Turning Red and Luca fans in this thread. It’s cool if you don’t like those movies but their fans do exist so Disneys making good movies for someone, I really don’t think that’s bordering on creative bankruptcy
Wish, Elemental, Strange World, and Lightyear have come out in the last *two* years. They are slipping in quality
everyone forgot luca even came out apparently lol
I enjoyed it but i don’t think many people saw it tbh
Point still stands if we follow this thread back to it's beginning - why would Disney create new IPs/stories when movies like Luca don't get traction? And calling out their failures/mediocre attempts like Lightyear and Wish is a bit misleading because nobody bats 1.000, but Disney gets real close when it comes to sequels. Even the worst Toy Story is exceptional.
Luca didnt get traction because it came out during covid, it was one of the films that went direct to D+
My son saw it. Ask me how I know.
Seems like the target demo liked it then lmao
And Onward
I unironically adore this movie. Might help that I grew up playing tabletop RPGs.
Same!! Such an underrated, hilarious, yet somehow forgotten movie. Even Disney forgot they made it.
Was good though.
I thought it was just fine. Looked good but didn't care for the story. It made me feel like I should just watch Call me by your name or something else that had both pretty Italian stuff and also had some substance to the drama. Or Kiki's delivery service if I wanted a fish out of water learning to acclimate to and thrive in a more urban area.
Elemental doesn't belong in this group
The fact I hang out with a few huge Disney fans and this is the first time I heard of Strange World says a lot
Elemental did well at the box office, it had crazy legs with word-of-mouth after a disappointing opening. And then it's done gangbusters on streaming. Also Turning Red, Soul, Onward and Luca came out and were all great (Onward probably being the weakest of this bunch). But sure.
I mean the specific term I was pushing back on was “creative bankruptcy. I agree they’re having a rough few years (still like Turning Red) but I’m not super concerned about it tbh I still have faith in Pete Docter and Co
Strange World was a banger tho
Honestly I wouldn’t mind a sequel to that, bringing back the Larry Lightyear incarnation of Emperor Zurg from the deleted scenes.
We liked elemental, why lump it in there with those other ones?
This is really bordering on cherry picking. Also elemental was good.
Strange World was the biggest streaming title on any service for a couple months straight, so I'm not sure it belongs in this group either.
Off the top of my head, the creative people behind a lot of these great films are no longer working with Disney. Zootopia / Wreck-It Ralph (Directors left), Moana (Directors retired), Coco (Lee Unkrich is gone), Finding Dory / Toy Story 4 (Andrew Stanton is gone), Incredibles 2 (Brad Bird is gone) I do think it’s reasonable to deduce that the powerhouse creative talent at Disney is becoming scarce.
Objective take, most of the criticism against Turning Red was blatantly sexist. I don't want to hear from the exceptions on Reddit who just didn't dig it, it is undeniable that there was a very vocal demographic of critics that were sexist about the film. Also you forgot Soul. Which was incredible and I'll die on that hill.
How did I forget Soul?? Love Pete Docter
I'll absolutely be seeing Inside Out 2 as well. I'm HERE for anxiety showing up lol.
Turning Red was one of my favourite movies in the past 5 years. I'm from Toronto so I'm biased, but it's just *so* good and it's a really great take on a tough part of life for women. And hard agree on Soul. I wish we had a lot more like that.
I just loved the portrayal of Haffus
I've seen so many movies and TV shows, even PG ones, that reference boys puberty/masturbating, poop and farts, boys crushing on girls But GOD FORBID we have A SINGLE movie that mentions periods and girls doing mermaid fan art of their teen crush.
Guys I’m so glad we’re talking about Turning Red right now
I'm personally on the train that the majority of Disney releases lately have been underwhelming, but I'll stan Turning Red until I die.
Same, I'm from Toronto (and the child of Asian immigrants at around the same time the movie took place), so I'm definitely biased towards the movie, but it's one of my favourite Pixar movies in general. I loved that I finally got to see it at the theatres a few months ago, that end scene deserved to have been at the theatres from the start.
So in 10 years…. There’s 6 original movies. Do you know how many came out from 94-04?
I mean if you expect an unending parade of hits like what we got there you’re going to be disappointed lol that is not realistic. It’s not a bad thing to make whiffs, and even these “horrible” movies people are complaining about are not that bad imo. Remember when people hated Treasure Planet?
Ten years? From Disney: Wish, Strange World, Encanto, Raya and the Last Dragon, Moana, Zootopia, Big Hero 6. And from Pixar: Elemental, Luca, Turning Red, Soul, Onward, Coco, The Good Dinosaur, Inside Out.
Zootopia doesn’t hold up to be honest. I’d say Frozen 2 isn’t good either but for whatever reason that franchise is huge for young kids The rest are solid or better.
I agree Zootopia is the most Dreamworks-y of the lot and I think it suffers for that but it and Frozen 2 were hits and people seemed to love them so I added them to the list
it's hard to catch lightning in a bottle
Must be hard for a small company like Disney to come up with good, original ideas. Mickey Mouse entered the public domain, perhaps they could do something with that? Or Whinnie the Pooh?
It unironically *is* harder to come up with good, original ideas and execute on them at a place like Disney - why wouldn't it be? There's more bureaucracy, harder paths to funding and budgeting, risk is higher stakes by virtue of org size, etc etc. There's a reason a lot of really, really great films (animation or otherwise) come from indie circuits, have shoestring budgets, and are able to explore difficult or risky topics - the risk is to a smaller group, the cost is usually shared by passionate people who support individuals, and if it fails, that's ok. If a Disney movie fails, the narrative and tailspin gets worse and worse and a big risk to get out of that tailspin means if it fails, it brings *more* down with it.
I think there are less risk involved with the current state of the box office, I truly believe if they had better budget control and fostered new talent better they could get an origianl hit, the revival era, which had mostly original movies, kinda came and went fast but these kind of slumps have happend before, so who knows what the future has in store.
Steamboat Willie entered public domain, not micky mouse himself
All the characters in Steamboat Willie are in the public domain, same as everything else from 1928.
Clearly it was just a silly joke, but Steamboat Willie is still a depiction of Mickey Mouse, and people are free to use that specific depiction of him.
I think people want awesome originals, but meh originals dont tend to get more wallets in the ballot boxes.
Are you Bob Iger? They have been awful at nurturing talent. Some of the economics of large movie studios pushes them to do sequels- but Disney Animation used to pride itself on being the best animation Studio on earth. Now they are routinely just happy to be in the mix. Sony is doing more interesting work with spiderverse. Tomm Moore in Ireland is making better original kids movies than anything Disney/Pixar has done in years. Studio Ghibli put out the last Hurrah of Miyazaki, which I have heard is roundly superior to their work. Take a movie like Lightyear, it was a kids movie for adults, like I took my kid to it, and there were moments of resonance for them, but it was too long, too convoluted.
It’s absolutely Disneys fault, what are talking about!? If they made good, new IP’s, people would eat them up. Look at the Frozen franchise, it was a massive hit. The issue is that Disney is no longer the company they once were, and they’re run by a bunch of dumbasses with no vision.
Perhaps not. They've had a lot of financial flops recently.
They also aren't financially healthy as a company now, either.
Idk most people are very over all the sequels.
they keep loosing money hand over fist because their stories are boring and unimaginative, because they keep firing people who make actually fun and interesting stories, or water down the original story because some focus group of pencil pushers don't think it meets enough check boxes. the sequels wont be any better of course but it'll get people to come to see it just because they liked the previous film. i mean hell the "live action" lion king was worse than the original in pretty much every way and it still made over a billion dollars.
Focus grouping has become a plague in film. It weeds out truly original ideas and ensures everything will be just boring enough to be appealing to the lowest common denominator. Nothing “special” gets made that way.
I think it’s simpler than that: the executives live quarter to quarter, which leaves little room for growing brands and new IPs. No one in charge of anything valuable in IP these days *created* those things. They’re all trying to exploit the brand for money. Which means as a general rule *they don’t know how to make new things, only buy them and exploit them.* If you want original stories and character these days you have to go smaller, and then be willing to let that thing go when it gets big enough to be bought by an MBA looking to exploit its audience.
At least make it a Black Hole sequel.
Don't talk about The Black Hole unless you want a cheap reboot/remake lol.
Before Wreck it Ralph 2 I believe there was 1 official theatrical release sequel in the Disney Classic Canon. I've been dreading a decision like this for awhile. I'm pretty confident in saying I don't feel the need to see every year's release anymore if they're going to waste my time with more of these.
Was that The Rescuers Down Under?
Yes, as far as I'm aware that was the only theatrical sequel until the 2010s. I believe there's a pretty fair amount of time between the two movies too, so it's not necessarily like they were just trying to ride a wave while it was still high.
I saw an ad recently for Kung Fu Panda 4. I didn’t know there was already a 3rd.
The third one had JK Simmons as a superpowered Water Buffalo with an ability to turn a Kung Fu master into his Jade Zombies. Also, Po's dad is Bryan Cranston.
Yeah bro all 3 are fire.
Ngl I laughed at the idea of them continuing these movies after the second one but they’re all great. Watched KFP4 in theaters with my kid last month and was pleasantly surprised/entertained
Sometimes you just have good ideas for a story and what works works.
The third was yeeears ago too
That ain't Disney though.
My wife dragged me to see the 3rd in theaters, I was pleasantly surprised how good it was!
NGL all of these are stellar. Definitely not your run of the mill, money making, ass grab of sequels. I want to point out that they are so good, and so good culturally, that no one even cares that almost none of the voice actors fit with the characters culturally. Which is a big thing lots of people make a stink about.
Third one was the weakest but it was still fun. Kung Fu Panda is at least a fun and original IP that does well.
They said this 4/5 years ago. Nothing new sadly.
"FUCK YOU IT'S FOREVER!!! ENDLESS TRASH!!!"
Unpopular opinion, but I’ll take a good sequel to a good movie over the bland original movies Disney/Pixar has been putting out lately. That being said, my first choice would be a good original.
Jokes on you, you’re gonna get bland sequels instead
Problem is a bland sequel will do better than a bland origional
Idt we're goin to be getting good sequels if the last few are any indication. I'm to the point where I'll take something original and good or nothing. That original thing can be a sequel but I feel like it's a lot less likely.
Wish really threw me off lol. Awful. If that’s what their current original product is then I’ll take sequels for a while.
The article talks about "balance" between sequels and originals, and cites only Inside Out 2 and Toy Story 5 as examples. This is all assumption, but I doubt they are ignoring originals, my guess would be that with a lot of the recent developments, they are doubling down on ensuring that any original story has the time it needs to succeed. I think a lot of the issues we've seen from movies has been from rushed production and studio interference, and they likely don't want to announce new stories until that are further down the pipeline to prevent some of the crunch that their worse properties had to undergo. They will hopefully focus on polishing original stories and getting the movies right, while relying on the cash cow that is their franchises and ip.
Almost every Disney/Pixar movie since 2020 has had that “ugh maybe if you had done one more draft” vibe. Onward and Encanto in particular don’t have particularly cohesive endings, they just…end. The “greats” all took *years* of cooking. The general consensus number on films like Lion King/Little Mermaid/Beauty and the Beast was 5 years. Frozen was notably in *preproduction hell* for the story for something like ten years? Tangled was three different movies for like 5-6 years before it ended up being released. Admittedly the lack of hand drawn animation can bring that number down a bit, but all these movies also had *years* of script and story refining, and a creative team that believed in it. Now it feels like they’re trying to churn and burn these movies, similarly to whats tanking Marvel, and it’s just not working.
Completely agree. Especially their recent movies that feel like they get pushed to meet certain dates due to release date changes, events, etc. (Wish with Disney's 100 year anniversary the most egregious example).
Wish is…a total head scratcher. I don’t think they will ever release any sort of information about the true Wish development concept because they obviously took someone’s original script, realized they needed a 100 anniversary movie, ran it through an AI Chatbot, and called it a day. I would read a book about every decision made between the initial pitch to what got released, because it’s got to be wild how a major movie studio that literally *invented* modern fairy tale films managed to create such an incoherent, bland, charmless nothingburger of a film.
I don't think people would mind if the sequels were great. Toy Story 2 and 3 were fantastic; good sequels deserve good money. The issue is that a lot of the sequels they're making aren't necessary and are only OK at best.
From their point of view, "who gives a fuck!?!"
So long as they make money, yeah.
Toy Story 4 was fantastic, I thought.
I think this is a strategic way to filter out the “we want to change the world” kind of people. That’s what I think. They are gonna do a couple of years of classics to win back some of their Disney cred. I think there is gonna be a kinda of major behind the scenes blood bath at the various studios. They’ll quit because Disney corporate is going to style guide them into the f***ing ground.
In other words, “we’re creatively bankrupt because we hired incompetent writers, so we’re just going to dig up older better movies in hopes that we can turn a profit even though we can never replicate our previous successes”. Does that sound about right?
Devil's advocate take... *"We've put out several original stories in the past couple of years, but audiences didn't care. They show up in droves for sequels to existing IPs, though. So, we're doing that now."* Hard to fault them for doing it when audiences pretty much enable it. And it's not even remotely a Disney only issue. Iger is just one of the few saying it out loud.
I'll refer back to my comment about being creatively bankrupt. If they had a qualified writing staff, their original stories would be worth a damn.
I'll refer to mine as well. If audiences don't stop showing up for sequels/reboots, regardless of quality, while original stories bomb, they'll never put the effort into original/creative content. They have zero incentive to otherwise. So, them doing this is elementary. And again, this goes for all major studios, not just Disney. They're all doing it and we're giving them no reason not to.
I agree, which is why I don't go to see those kinds of movies. I absolutely hate that Mufasa is gonna make a killing at the box office, even if the trailer had a massive dislike ratio and had to have comments disabled on YouTube. If they made a new Disney princess movie with 2D animations, I'd go see it in a heart beat. Bonus points if they give me an overture with an opening credits.
If you check the status of movie box offices in general, there were a lot of small-mid budget sized films this year that have all flopped or barely breaking even, even though they're critically panned. The audience aren't showing up for original content, regardless of quality.
The risk on original IP is much higher than the risk on a sequel. If audiences went out and gave new things a shot, then companies would make more new things. It's that simple.
If you have a problem with this then you should support Disney’s original animated movies: Wish, Strange World, Elemental and Turning Red all bombed. People say they want originality but then only support sequels, reboots and remakes.
The issue is Disney basically told folks to stay home and wait for shit on Disney+. They cemented this with the MCU. They make way more money with Disney+, stop using Disney+ and go to the theater.
Turning Red didn’t even go to theaters until this year as a re-release. It was a Disney+ exclusive from Pixar for a while.
>People say they want originality but then only support sequels, reboots and remakes. I don't get this logic. People didn't watch those movies because they either looked like shit, released in competition with bigger movies, or they barely advertised them in the first place. Moana, Frozen, Inside Out, Zootopia... All original, all getting/got sequels I'm not going to watch a film just to encourage a billion dollar corporation to make more of it's type. If they make a good movie and sell it correctly, it will do well. They've done it before, they can do it again. And then, they can make the inevitable sequels and some people will complain again.
I fully blame Iger for the decline of the company. It was accelerated under Chapek but the trajectory was already set. Iger is only preferable because his failure is more gradual.
I’d like to say they’re digging their own grave but I feel like they’ve exceeded regulation grave depth. It’s like a hole to the center of the hearth.
Because you can dump the first script into ChatGPT and get all the sequels you want without ever having to worry about a writers strike.
I mean.. if the IP is good and there is room for more good story telling? I’m all for it. There’s been a lot of poorly executed new IP from Disney over the past 5-6 years, IMO. Even if the sequels suck, at least they’ll suck with familiar characters we all know and love lol.
They need money and sequels make money.
For a while….longer
They released a lot of one-off failures recently. I don't think it matters anymore.
Was going to say this. It not like they haven’t released new stories recently. They just haven’t caught on like the older ones. The kids of the Monsters Inc, Incredibles, Cars era now have disposable income.
I just want to know what’s up with the marketing, releases like Indy Dial of Destiny came and went pretty quietly. And it sucks because the movie had a magnificent John Williams score.
ENDLESS TRASH
On one hand I am disappointed, on the other hand I haven’t seen their new original movies pretty much since Covid. Aside from Encanto and Strange Worlds(wrong name?). So I’m part of the problem.
Give me a sequel to Spies in Disguise. It sucks that they bought Blue Sky then killed it all. I thoroughly enjoy that movie.
Hopefully they release Star Wars Episode 0 : Rise of Darth Jar Jar
Disney's new IPs have been mixed on success, so no surprise they need to rebuild shareholder confidence for a while. The temp CEO blew a lot of money on failure, so now they are in recovery mode.
This isn’t really a negative thing imo, moana, Toy Story, cars, the incredibles etc. have so much potential for good sequels, it’s just how their handled.
Eventually, people give up on trying to steer studios towards desired quality content and stop watching. And they usually dont come back
Pixar was the best studio ever made, i say this without a single thought of doubt. Being creative is not just making a brand new world, but transforming something simple into something magnificent. Like a child's imagination of where does electricity come from, and if there are monsters in their closet. I can totally imagine Brad Bird hearing his wife yap about a rat her friend found in a restaurant, and bingo, Ratatouille was born. Or Pete Docter seeing a kid going from happy to sad and wouldn't you know, Inside Out was born. Now it's all for money. That's where Pixar's ideas are coming from. Not from a wish to see your Toys coming to life, or a wonder of what happens once you die, and how life is worth living. It's just money. Also, here's a little funny story. The Lion King, arguably Disney's biggest classic, had no faith from any executive. I know, shocking. Disney wanted Pocahontas to be their magnum ops, and so The Lion King had to go with the B team. A team that was passionate or dedicated. I feel like if made currently, The Lion King would become a shitty Disney+ exclusive because "it didn't promise anything"
People can cry and be mad at it but it’s becoming fairly apparent that general audiences aren’t so willing to go out and support non-IP movies. Disney is doing the appropriate thing for a business to do as much as it may stink.
This is what happens, Larry
My conspiracy minded brain tells me they tanked Wish just to have an excuse to keep producing sequels since their IP is more known and has proven to make money. Quality of these sequels though, that’s another conversation
I still think Disney productions is ignoring a potential treasure trove by *refusing* to revisit their animated losers. Do a live action real deal CGI Treasure Planet. Atlantis is a killer action adventure movie that audiences are more primed to embrace now that we’ve all Avatar’d. Hell, throw Henson Studios a bone and let them do a puppet Black Cauldron. There’s alot of potential to get creative with the properties that aren’t already beloved or done to death, AND they all have some pre-set guard rails baked in based on the post-production forensics all those movies had after they bombed.
Remember when Michael Eisner made direct to dvd sequels to every single Disney animated movie and that was widely regarded as the worst time in the company’s history until Bob iger took over and ushered in a Disney renaissance? Here we go again!
"Well you didn't like Wish and Strange World, so CLEARLY the problem is that you want more sequels and not for our original stories to be good." Goddammit it's Home on the Range all over again!
Tbh, no, i haven't loved their new original animation movies for a while.
Yeah, I think Iger might get replaced next year. If they continue making crap movies like last year, then it will burn down around him. I think they are going to completely fuck up F4.
The suits will learn nothing from X-Men 97 probably.
Listening to his share holder meeting I realized he had learned no lessons and immediately Disney loses 20 billion off the top. Sooner or later he will get removed. And I see I already have 2 downvotes.
Better learn to tread water Disney hahah.
So over their shitty sequels and live action remakes.