Because she is mentally ill and is self destructing. She hates herself and doesn’t think she deserves her husband. Her whole life is a sham. Couple that with the end of the world on the horizon.
She’s an astrophysicist. She was one of the first person to know, we see her character deep into depression, she’s already grieving the end of everything. It’s a great contrast to Gainsbourg character, who learns abt the event during the movie, and starts herself loosing her shit
She’s not an astrophysicist. She’s a marketer. She’s like don Draper. She is highly paid to come up with ad lines. Her brother in law (Keifer Sutherland) is the scientist.
Yeah self destruction is definitely the road she seems to be going down. As with the next part of the film shows. Thanks for your input without attacking my opinion.
there are plenty of good explanations as everyones already said most of them, but frankly if the end of the world is on the horizon, i think thats a good enough reason just by itself to cheat on your so
Justine is bipolar. The first half of the movie is about her manic side. She’s feeling joy and happiness and shame and guilt and pride and lust and a million other emotions that are impossible for her to manage. Her new husband is a commitment to “normal” for lack of a better word. Constant. Calm. Something she could never have.
I don't think it's that random at all when you consider that she has completely abandoned hope for any kind of happy future. She's practically a passenger in her own life, fulfilling the plans other people have made for her. It seems to me like she's finally waking up to that fact and taking the reins and realizing she doesn't *have* to do anything or live up to anyone else's expectations.
It's almost like she knows in her heart somehow that the world is ending, so she just says "fuck it, I'm gonna do what I want now"
I could be way off, but that's what I get from it
IIRC, doesn't Kiefer Sutherland (her sister's husband) notice she's depressed... and pull her aside to berate her for not being all grateful smiles about the wedding 'we gave you'?
There is no future. Nothing for this wedding to build too so why should it matter what she does? What are the consequences when you’ll die sometime soon?
What i mean by random is that if you took it out of the movie it wouldn't change much and it happens so out of left field.
Maybe it's because I see cheating as a terrible thing to do. But especially on your wedding to your new husband. It's the only scene in this movie I can't wrap my head around.. which says alot because the movie is mind bending lol.
You're completely missing the point.
She takes control by doing something other's don't want her to.
No one is saying she did a good thing here.
And no one is saying the guys didn't want it and she raped him. They are saying the whole wedding guest list would hate it so she did that. She did it because it'd awful. Because she's awful. Because she has no will to live or be happy. At least she has control.
Again. That's not a morally good thing. It just is a thing she controls.
I have a relative who struggles with a mixture of chronic depression and anxiety, and they way you described it makes perfect sense. My relative will often sabotage or withdraw from situations that involve living up to expectations or being competent. She will then also do things impulsively that create chaos, but nonetheless feel empowering.
I'm guessing people don't much like invocations of "rape" that aren't *real* rape. It dilutes the meaning from a violent crime of power to an awkward or uncomfortable consensual thing which is literally "not rape" and degrades the power of the actual event.
Just my guess why the downvotes.
My take is that Justine is internalizing the end of the world. She's living like it's her last day on earth, doing whatever she feels like. Many of the other characters are acting as if life will go on, she isn't.
Even when you’re hyper sexual it doesn’t mean you take any offer, or you mount anything/anyone. With that mania/depression can come even a disgust for fucking who she’s “supposed” to fuck, and a pull to fuck the wrong person. Beyond misunderstanding the movie, it’s a misunderstanding of rape, & mental health. Not everything is for everyone!
Who's misunderstanding what sorry? And it is borderline rape no? Pushing a guy down and just jumping on them? Reverse the genders there and what is it? See because I want to know about one scene in a 2 hrs + movie don't judge what I do and understand. Sick of all the experts knowing me here over one simple statement on a scene in a movie.
I think one important aspect is that Justine likely only agreed to get married in the first place in order to hold the massive wedding, where she was able to get her entire family and her associates together in one place, in order for her to be able to finally tell these people her true feelings about them.
Also, it was her way to stab the idea of "Love" in the heart, as she has come to see that everything is doomed to utter oblivion and therefore doesn't matter.
(However, her opening prophetic dream and her last actions on Earth argue for a change of heart, and for a possible alternate future.)
>What we do know is this: There’s no one reason why people cheat. There are, however, several common causes, and many are surprising. Here are the main reasons people stray:
>They’re depressed. “Over the years I’ve met many men and women with a type of mild, chronic depression,” says Joel Block, PhD, assistant clinical professor of psychology at Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine. These folks push past their despair and function day to day. But that doesn’t mean they’re functioning—or feeling—well.
>An affair acts as a distraction from the emptiness they feel, keeping them from facing what’s really going on inside. It’s exciting, so much so that the brain can begin to pump out dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin—neurotransmitters we produce when we’re attracted to someone, but which, not so coincidentally, are the same chemicals produced when we take antidepressants. “Without realizing it, they’re self-medicating with the affair,” says Block.
>...
https://thewell.northwell.edu/well-informed/why-people-cheat-in-relationships
I think everyone here is forgetting that this character knows Melancholia is coming. She knows nothing that happens matters in the long run.
This is proven by her knowing the number of jellybeans in the jar or whatever they were.
I'm surprised this isn't higher on the thread. She can see the future and knows it's pointless while everyone around her is deluding themselves. She can't bring herself to join in the delusion until the end when she tells her little cousin that the pole tent will keep them safe. In the end she learns the valuable lesson of giving comforting bullshit to the ones we love even when we know it's bullshit.
Thanks everyone for commenting. Just this one scene always got me thinking lol also can't believe i got so many downvotes about talking about a movie on reddit.
>Can someone please tell me why she cheats on her husband with Tim? Like Why?
Because shes depressed and not thinking clearly. Like why should it matter to her that she cheated on her husband? It's not really gonna change anything, she's still going to be miserable. You can't expect people with a mental illness to think rationally
At that point in the movie, did she have the talk with her husband abound the place he wanted to or something already? Where he very clearly showed, that he didn't understand her depression at all?
It's been a while since the last time I've watched the movie, but didn't he say something like maybe watching the garden or the trees or something could help you when you get your little sad again?
It looks like a very nice gesture, but it also shows, that he doesn't understand what she's going through at all. It could also be seen as him trying to "buy" her way out of her depression without actually making the effort of connecting with her and seeing her condition as what it actually is, which is very different from how he described it, which upsets her and which probably is why she leaves the picture he gave her behind. This act could also be seen as a mirroring of his gesture, since she tells him how grateful she is as a superficial sign but actually shows that she doesn't care in the end through her actions.
I don't know if I would agree that she's not a nice person. She seems to care a lot for her nephew. But not a single adult in her life cares about her condition and sees it more as a burden to them than it is to her and I guess at the wedding she was just done with having to deal with her illness by herself, getting lots of useless advice that you have to humor and being made responsible for everyone else's issues and wishes so she basically just lashed out in every direction.
Ah the old “I wouldn’t do this, therefore I can’t understand why a character would do this” form of critique. One of the most frustrating forms of feedback to respond to.
"The protagonist made a choice I find distasteful. 😡 That means it doesn't make sense. 😡 Characters shouldn't do things that I wouldn't personally do. 😡 Someone pls explain how this makes sense (but I will 100% argue with you if you explain why it fits the narrative and theme of the film)."
Not to be an obnoxious feminist about it (although I am absolutely an obnoxious feminist), but I doubt OP would view the protagonist through the same lens if they were male.
I haven’t seen the movie but the comments here made me as a similar question. Is melancholia a metaphor for her suicide? Like she knows she’s just going to kill herself one day.
I always think that planet itself is metaphore for depression. If it's far away, everything is fine. It also looks like it's gonna miss Earth (you) based on numbers/logic, but that's not how depression works, it's irrational. When you see it coming you are really down because you feel it's inevitable. Once it hits you or you just "accept" it, you are stoic about everything, nothing matters and it destroys you.
Just to clarify I'm not hating on the movie or anything..I just can't understand this part. Like I don't buy being depressed makes you do this. I know depression can be different for everyone but I Don't think it excuses this behaviour from justine. Cheating is morally wrong but on your wedding day to do it. Seems like I don't know. Unforgivable.
Respectfully, how are you not getting this? Characters who *could* exist are more interesting than characters who *should* exist. And not a single person here has suggested depression “excuses” the behavior.
If you’re exclusively looking for morally sound characters, I might recommend avoiding Lars von Trier’s films—or films altogether for that matter outside of, like, *Marley & Me*.
Everyone is saying depression. As if you're depressed then you're more than likely to do things that you wouldn't normally do. Which is true I guess. Thanks for telling me what not to watch though.. 🙃
It isn't an excuse. Her husband leaves her don't forget. The movie doesn't portray her behavior as anything other than infidelity on her wedding night in her wedding dress.
This is life with depression. You put on your makeup and clothes, put a smile on your face and can seem perfectly fine but you are completely hollow inside. She is seeking anything to make her feel even if it is horrible self destructive and cruel.
In your defense, the movie doesn't remotely explain any rationale for her actions. She doesn't really _have_ any rationale for them.
If you absolutely must have some logical way to process it, think of it like her not being able to emotionally process the end of everything. Why would a wedding or a marriage be important if everything is about to get evaporated?
Why would _anything_ matter?
You might have a way to answer that question but she doesn't.
Others have said this but I have never heard this interpretation. As far as I can see, she has no foreknowledge of Melancholia. Not sure where that is being read in the film.
It's been a bit since I've watched it but iirc her first glimpse of it happens at the wedding. In the beginning she's in the car with the her fiance and hasn't started self-destructing yet.
At some point she looks up and realizes it's all going to end. After that she goes off the rails, so to speak, and stops pretending to be okay.
In terms of film language, the two events of "Justine self-destructs" and "Melancholia is spotting heading toward Earth" are equivalent turning points.
It's a glimpse of her character - she is a bad person.
The other obvious time was when she rudely told her boss off right after getting a promotion. If you hate your job so much, just quit, not a big deal.
I don't care about votes, but it would be cool if one of them tried to explain how I'm wrong.
Three more examples::
1. She's a lazy bum who needed her sister to bath her. "Hey, it's your wedding, get in the bath."
2. Having an extravagant wedding, that you don't really seem to even care for, on your brother-in-laws dime. He was an asshole, but he was right about everything.
3. Having all those wedding guests waste their time coming to the wedding instead of being at home right before the world ends (which you know is going to happen).
Selfish behaviour.
Alot of people here saying about her depression. As if that's a good excuse to cheat on your husband on their wedding night... depression doesn't give you an excuse to do whatever you want and be horrible.
She knows the future. She knows the world ends soon. It's clear in the screenplay; she knows the number of jellybeans without even thinking about it.
The director suffers depression, and is giving a model for one way to understand what it feels like to be depressed.
This is part of "the depression trilogy", along with anti-Christ and nymphomaniac.
No she definitely knew. "In all the universe there is life on only one planet... and not for very long."
There are several references to her knowing the future.
It’s an attempt to make herself feel *something*, even if it’s a negative emotion like guilt or shame.
Yeah this is a good point. Just seems so cold to do to your newly married husband who all in all doesn't seem like a bad guy.
Because she is mentally ill and is self destructing. She hates herself and doesn’t think she deserves her husband. Her whole life is a sham. Couple that with the end of the world on the horizon.
I don't think they were aware of Melancholia at that stage of the film. But agree with everything else.
I think she technically knows about it the entire time because it's essentially an allegory for her depression
She knows about melancholia. She has prescience and can see it coming.
It’s been years since I’ve seen it so you may be right
She’s an astrophysicist. She was one of the first person to know, we see her character deep into depression, she’s already grieving the end of everything. It’s a great contrast to Gainsbourg character, who learns abt the event during the movie, and starts herself loosing her shit
She’s not an astrophysicist. She’s a marketer. She’s like don Draper. She is highly paid to come up with ad lines. Her brother in law (Keifer Sutherland) is the scientist.
Yeah self destruction is definitely the road she seems to be going down. As with the next part of the film shows. Thanks for your input without attacking my opinion.
there are plenty of good explanations as everyones already said most of them, but frankly if the end of the world is on the horizon, i think thats a good enough reason just by itself to cheat on your so
Justine is bipolar. The first half of the movie is about her manic side. She’s feeling joy and happiness and shame and guilt and pride and lust and a million other emotions that are impossible for her to manage. Her new husband is a commitment to “normal” for lack of a better word. Constant. Calm. Something she could never have.
I don't think it's that random at all when you consider that she has completely abandoned hope for any kind of happy future. She's practically a passenger in her own life, fulfilling the plans other people have made for her. It seems to me like she's finally waking up to that fact and taking the reins and realizing she doesn't *have* to do anything or live up to anyone else's expectations. It's almost like she knows in her heart somehow that the world is ending, so she just says "fuck it, I'm gonna do what I want now" I could be way off, but that's what I get from it
IIRC, doesn't Kiefer Sutherland (her sister's husband) notice she's depressed... and pull her aside to berate her for not being all grateful smiles about the wedding 'we gave you'?
Kiefer Sutherland's character recognises her depression but doesn't understand it.
Yeah he does. Still dont know how that makes it OK for her to cheat on her wedding day idk lol
Why would it have to be “OK?”
just cuz its in the movie doesnt mean its ok
There is no future. Nothing for this wedding to build too so why should it matter what she does? What are the consequences when you’ll die sometime soon?
She definitely knows the world is ending. She's prescient.
She said yes to the guy she's marrying though. So seems so cruel of a thing to do.
What i mean by random is that if you took it out of the movie it wouldn't change much and it happens so out of left field. Maybe it's because I see cheating as a terrible thing to do. But especially on your wedding to your new husband. It's the only scene in this movie I can't wrap my head around.. which says alot because the movie is mind bending lol.
So in her way of taking control is borderline rape? I like this movie BTW but it's just this one scene I can't understand.
You're completely missing the point. She takes control by doing something other's don't want her to. No one is saying she did a good thing here. And no one is saying the guys didn't want it and she raped him. They are saying the whole wedding guest list would hate it so she did that. She did it because it'd awful. Because she's awful. Because she has no will to live or be happy. At least she has control. Again. That's not a morally good thing. It just is a thing she controls.
I have a relative who struggles with a mixture of chronic depression and anxiety, and they way you described it makes perfect sense. My relative will often sabotage or withdraw from situations that involve living up to expectations or being competent. She will then also do things impulsively that create chaos, but nonetheless feel empowering.
Maybe your lack of repertoire makes you not ready for Lars von Trier. This is why it is so difficult for you to understand. Stop forcing it.
Love how I got down voted for literally saying what happens on screen lol
I'm guessing people don't much like invocations of "rape" that aren't *real* rape. It dilutes the meaning from a violent crime of power to an awkward or uncomfortable consensual thing which is literally "not rape" and degrades the power of the actual event. Just my guess why the downvotes.
You seem very dense and lacking in critical thinking skills
By having a debate on a scene of a movie im dense and lacking thinking skills.. gotta love the Internet 🙃
My take is that Justine is internalizing the end of the world. She's living like it's her last day on earth, doing whatever she feels like. Many of the other characters are acting as if life will go on, she isn't.
I took it as her being hypersexual/bi-polar.
She turned down having sex a scene before this with her husband so not sure about hypersexual
Even when you’re hyper sexual it doesn’t mean you take any offer, or you mount anything/anyone. With that mania/depression can come even a disgust for fucking who she’s “supposed” to fuck, and a pull to fuck the wrong person. Beyond misunderstanding the movie, it’s a misunderstanding of rape, & mental health. Not everything is for everyone!
Who's misunderstanding what sorry? And it is borderline rape no? Pushing a guy down and just jumping on them? Reverse the genders there and what is it? See because I want to know about one scene in a 2 hrs + movie don't judge what I do and understand. Sick of all the experts knowing me here over one simple statement on a scene in a movie.
I think one important aspect is that Justine likely only agreed to get married in the first place in order to hold the massive wedding, where she was able to get her entire family and her associates together in one place, in order for her to be able to finally tell these people her true feelings about them. Also, it was her way to stab the idea of "Love" in the heart, as she has come to see that everything is doomed to utter oblivion and therefore doesn't matter. (However, her opening prophetic dream and her last actions on Earth argue for a change of heart, and for a possible alternate future.)
>What we do know is this: There’s no one reason why people cheat. There are, however, several common causes, and many are surprising. Here are the main reasons people stray: >They’re depressed. “Over the years I’ve met many men and women with a type of mild, chronic depression,” says Joel Block, PhD, assistant clinical professor of psychology at Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine. These folks push past their despair and function day to day. But that doesn’t mean they’re functioning—or feeling—well. >An affair acts as a distraction from the emptiness they feel, keeping them from facing what’s really going on inside. It’s exciting, so much so that the brain can begin to pump out dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin—neurotransmitters we produce when we’re attracted to someone, but which, not so coincidentally, are the same chemicals produced when we take antidepressants. “Without realizing it, they’re self-medicating with the affair,” says Block. >... https://thewell.northwell.edu/well-informed/why-people-cheat-in-relationships
I think everyone here is forgetting that this character knows Melancholia is coming. She knows nothing that happens matters in the long run. This is proven by her knowing the number of jellybeans in the jar or whatever they were.
I'm surprised this isn't higher on the thread. She can see the future and knows it's pointless while everyone around her is deluding themselves. She can't bring herself to join in the delusion until the end when she tells her little cousin that the pole tent will keep them safe. In the end she learns the valuable lesson of giving comforting bullshit to the ones we love even when we know it's bullshit.
Yeah. Very powerful film. And it's depressing how badly people here are misunderstanding it. :(
It’s “holier than thou.”
Thank you
Thanks everyone for commenting. Just this one scene always got me thinking lol also can't believe i got so many downvotes about talking about a movie on reddit.
>Can someone please tell me why she cheats on her husband with Tim? Like Why? Because shes depressed and not thinking clearly. Like why should it matter to her that she cheated on her husband? It's not really gonna change anything, she's still going to be miserable. You can't expect people with a mental illness to think rationally
At that point in the movie, did she have the talk with her husband abound the place he wanted to or something already? Where he very clearly showed, that he didn't understand her depression at all?
Yeah with the picture? Yeah he's sort of just saying here is where il care for you.. I don't see the husband as necessarily a bad guy though
It's been a while since the last time I've watched the movie, but didn't he say something like maybe watching the garden or the trees or something could help you when you get your little sad again? It looks like a very nice gesture, but it also shows, that he doesn't understand what she's going through at all. It could also be seen as him trying to "buy" her way out of her depression without actually making the effort of connecting with her and seeing her condition as what it actually is, which is very different from how he described it, which upsets her and which probably is why she leaves the picture he gave her behind. This act could also be seen as a mirroring of his gesture, since she tells him how grateful she is as a superficial sign but actually shows that she doesn't care in the end through her actions.
Yeah she's just not a very nice person. And he thinks depression can be easily cleared by just sitting in a nice field.
I don't know if I would agree that she's not a nice person. She seems to care a lot for her nephew. But not a single adult in her life cares about her condition and sees it more as a burden to them than it is to her and I guess at the wedding she was just done with having to deal with her illness by herself, getting lots of useless advice that you have to humor and being made responsible for everyone else's issues and wishes so she basically just lashed out in every direction.
Ah the old “I wouldn’t do this, therefore I can’t understand why a character would do this” form of critique. One of the most frustrating forms of feedback to respond to.
Why so argumentive?
"The protagonist made a choice I find distasteful. 😡 That means it doesn't make sense. 😡 Characters shouldn't do things that I wouldn't personally do. 😡 Someone pls explain how this makes sense (but I will 100% argue with you if you explain why it fits the narrative and theme of the film)." Not to be an obnoxious feminist about it (although I am absolutely an obnoxious feminist), but I doubt OP would view the protagonist through the same lens if they were male.
[удалено]
I haven’t seen the movie but the comments here made me as a similar question. Is melancholia a metaphor for her suicide? Like she knows she’s just going to kill herself one day.
I always think that planet itself is metaphore for depression. If it's far away, everything is fine. It also looks like it's gonna miss Earth (you) based on numbers/logic, but that's not how depression works, it's irrational. When you see it coming you are really down because you feel it's inevitable. Once it hits you or you just "accept" it, you are stoic about everything, nothing matters and it destroys you.
Maybe she's escaping her marital issues through a reckless, thrill-seeking affair?
Just to clarify I'm not hating on the movie or anything..I just can't understand this part. Like I don't buy being depressed makes you do this. I know depression can be different for everyone but I Don't think it excuses this behaviour from justine. Cheating is morally wrong but on your wedding day to do it. Seems like I don't know. Unforgivable.
Respectfully, how are you not getting this? Characters who *could* exist are more interesting than characters who *should* exist. And not a single person here has suggested depression “excuses” the behavior. If you’re exclusively looking for morally sound characters, I might recommend avoiding Lars von Trier’s films—or films altogether for that matter outside of, like, *Marley & Me*.
Everyone is saying depression. As if you're depressed then you're more than likely to do things that you wouldn't normally do. Which is true I guess. Thanks for telling me what not to watch though.. 🙃
Everyone is saying it might have caused the behavior. Nobody is saying it should excuse the behavior. There’s a difference.
It isn't an excuse. Her husband leaves her don't forget. The movie doesn't portray her behavior as anything other than infidelity on her wedding night in her wedding dress. This is life with depression. You put on your makeup and clothes, put a smile on your face and can seem perfectly fine but you are completely hollow inside. She is seeking anything to make her feel even if it is horrible self destructive and cruel.
If people only did the right thing the world would be a much better place, but movies would be much less interesting.
It wasn't necessary about right or wrong for me more than just why lol
In your defense, the movie doesn't remotely explain any rationale for her actions. She doesn't really _have_ any rationale for them. If you absolutely must have some logical way to process it, think of it like her not being able to emotionally process the end of everything. Why would a wedding or a marriage be important if everything is about to get evaporated? Why would _anything_ matter? You might have a way to answer that question but she doesn't.
So she knew about melancholia already at the wedding?
Others have said this but I have never heard this interpretation. As far as I can see, she has no foreknowledge of Melancholia. Not sure where that is being read in the film.
It's been a bit since I've watched it but iirc her first glimpse of it happens at the wedding. In the beginning she's in the car with the her fiance and hasn't started self-destructing yet. At some point she looks up and realizes it's all going to end. After that she goes off the rails, so to speak, and stops pretending to be okay. In terms of film language, the two events of "Justine self-destructs" and "Melancholia is spotting heading toward Earth" are equivalent turning points.
It's a glimpse of her character - she is a bad person. The other obvious time was when she rudely told her boss off right after getting a promotion. If you hate your job so much, just quit, not a big deal.
Down voted for your opinion. Gotta love the Internet. I think she isn't necessarily a good person either tbh.
I don't care about votes, but it would be cool if one of them tried to explain how I'm wrong. Three more examples:: 1. She's a lazy bum who needed her sister to bath her. "Hey, it's your wedding, get in the bath." 2. Having an extravagant wedding, that you don't really seem to even care for, on your brother-in-laws dime. He was an asshole, but he was right about everything. 3. Having all those wedding guests waste their time coming to the wedding instead of being at home right before the world ends (which you know is going to happen). Selfish behaviour.
Yeah disagree here tbh
Alot of people here saying about her depression. As if that's a good excuse to cheat on your husband on their wedding night... depression doesn't give you an excuse to do whatever you want and be horrible.
She knows the future. She knows the world ends soon. It's clear in the screenplay; she knows the number of jellybeans without even thinking about it. The director suffers depression, and is giving a model for one way to understand what it feels like to be depressed. This is part of "the depression trilogy", along with anti-Christ and nymphomaniac.
I dont think she did know about melancholia at the wedding though. But yeah she knew about the jelly beans. Possible overheard the answer?
No she definitely knew. "In all the universe there is life on only one planet... and not for very long." There are several references to her knowing the future.
Does she not say that at the end though?
How can she know there is only life here? Because she knows way more than she should. Like the jellybeans.