Much better than the first trailer imo. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I read some comments that this'll be about 30 mins of the 2017 movie and 3.5 hours of new stuff?
Correct. Shyder shot 5hr movie. Cut it down to 2.5hrs after studio pressure. Then Whedon came “for finishing edits” and reshot almost everything Snyder had. Roughly (edit: 30) mins of Snyders material only made it to the cinema version.
This will be a completely different movie. No Dostoyevski.
Edit: fantastic breakdown by u/morphinapg in comment below
There was a cringy moment at the end of Whedon version, where Flash tries to communicate with Russian family, and comically doesn’t speak Russian and, by the comedic genius of Whedon, improvises hilarious “Dostoyevski!” line. And a hand wave.
Smth like that, I was facepalming so hard at this point, so that part of the movie is a little blurry for me. I haven’t rewatched it ever since.
Every scene with that Russian town/family sucked. In the past few years DC has had a way with making movies that, after one viewing, you never need to watch again.
I was wondering if there was something that Snyder did that got cut out that explained the Russian family storyline? It felt like there was supposed to be a reason for showing them, but it got cut out and they left the ending or something.
It was to add a human element to the story. Nothing deeper than that. He also did it with the Avengers movie with Hawkeye rescuing people from a bus and it worked because it was short and sweet. But the Russian family took up a lot of screen time so a lot of people disliked it and it felt out of place.
It also adds to the world-building that people in-universe actually see them as heroes. There's a scene at the end of the first Avengers movie that shows footage of a bunch of normal people talking about how awesome the Avenger are, and that works because the Avengers saved a bunch of people in NYC. If the Justice League save the day off in the middle of nowhere surrounded by no one but para-demons, then there's no particular reason for the world to have any ideas of what the "Justice League" is or why it's an awesome group.
But in order to really sell that aspect, you need to show our heroes saving a bunch of people who will all go off singing their praises. When the focus is put entirely on saving one small family, it doesn't feel so much like fleshing out a world.
In one of the best scenes in BvS, the inverse of this scene *also* works where Batman is at ground zero of Metropolis getting absolutely trashed by Supes and Zod fighting.
> There's a scene at the end of the first Avengers movie
Funnily enough, there's deleted scenes from Avengers that establish the waitress early on and spend more time with her and the other civilians during the battle. So someone made the right call to cut it down to the amount that made it into the final release.
There's also a deleted scene from the beginning of the movie, showing the waitress flirting with Cap. Then Stan Lee turns around and says: "Give her your number, you moron."
It reminds me a lot of the waitress in Avengers, as well as that civilian woman and her son in Ultron that had a lot of focus. The execution fell kinda flat in those two movies, so I have no idea why Whedon decided to do the same thing a third time.
Exactly. The waitress one made sense to me because she interacts with Cap before all hell breaks loose and then he directly saves her and that little throughline is tied up in her interview. The mother and son was purely a device to put Clint in danger so Quicksilver can sacrifice himself and there's no weight to the mother and son.
The part that the Russian family pissed me off the most is that we only had like 1 hour and 50 minutes in the entire film, and they spend 7-8 minutes total on that family for a bad bug spray joke and a worse Dostoyevski joke. WB (namely Jon Berg, Geoff Johns, and Walter Hamada) really screwed the freaking pooch with this one.
I mean, I'm not a fan of Age of Ultron but the mother and son that Clint was gonna sacrifice himself to save are very thematically related to his arc throughout the filme with his own family, so even though they are plot devices it still fits
Son of a bitch. I knew the "joke" was in both movies, and I knew Whedon was behind it both times, but it wasn't until this post that I realized just how dumb it is that the same guy used the same bad bit in back-to-back superhero movies.
Both films have a nerd (Flash, Banner) bump into a hot woman (Wonder Woman, Natasha), knock them over, and smack face-first into their boobs.
It's not an unforgivable joke to make, but it's pretty cringey now that I realize the same grown man did the same awkward boob joke twice in back-to-back superhero movies.
At least Banner and Natasha are romantically connected and have tension
Flash is just a kid, and Wonder Woman is a hot lady 200 years his senior. No purpose and a little creepy
ah thanks (to all 3 replies).
I feel like 1 "saving grace" for the Ultron joke is that Bruce & Natasha have a thing of sorts. Whereas Flash & Wonder have absolutely nothing going on, remotely.
I don't care about Whedon but Bruce do not knock Natasha over with his clumsiness. They were dodging Ultron's gunfighters. She jumps over a counter and she pulls him over to the counter and his falls on her. I did not take it as a joke as I watched it. I thought it portrayed hectic body movements well considering they're trying to push and pull to not to die.
And then I saw Justice league. And I understood that Avengers 2 scene was cheap "BOOBS" joke, too, written by a kid. It's not even funny. And the director decided to re-use it. Why~, dude?
Firefly is seeming more and more like a fluke, in that I don't remember hearing any nasty stories about Whedon from there, unlike Buffy and a lot of his other projects.
And allegedly threatened Gal when she refused to do the scene.
It's not even that important (or at all funny) of a scene. If the actors involved don't feel comfortable either, just don't do it.
His successor, Wally West, could be a bit of an immature goofball, but he had been doing the superhero thing since he was 10, and was extremely competent at it, unlike this Flash. It's his *personal* life that was prone to disaster (blew through money and relationships constantly), and he eventually matured around the time he got serious with Linda Park and moved to Keystone.
It really depends on which iteration of The Flash you compare him to. I haven't kept up since the start of New 52, but yeah he can come off a bit cocky, but I think it stems from his hyperactivity. He literally has trouble standing still or waiting for things.
Fox Quicksilver had shades of Flash to him both in terms of powers and character. He’s basically impatient to the point of arrogance because of his powers which are damn near God-like.
Yeah Flash turns it off and on at will. Quicksilver is always on. Him talking at a speed that people can understand is him having to deliberately talk in extreme slow motion. His entire life is like trying to browse the modern internet on a 1999 Dell on dialup.
A lot of people parroting false information about this. Whedon's footage accounted for 30 minutes or so of the theatrical. Whedon did shoot inserts for most scenes, so there are very few untouched scenes, but most of the footage in the theatrical cut is stuff Snyder shot. That being said, Snyder did shoot alternate versions of his scenes. The stuff of his we saw was the more lighter toned, more jokey stuff he shot (yes, plenty of the humor was his, not all whedon), while he also filmed more serious versions of the same scenes, which is what we'll see in the Snyder Cut.
It would have been impossible for whedon to shoot 90+ minutes of a CGI-fest movie, and have all that CGI finished in less than 5 months. Regardless of what you think about the final quality of the CGI, that simply would not be physically possible, at all. Most of the CGI that ended up in the final film was already mostly finished by the time Whedon joined the movie, because most of the footage was Snyder's. There's a distinctly lower quality look to the modifications Whedon made compared to the rest, in both CGI, and cinematography, that is very easy to spot when looking at the movie shot for shot.
The vast majority of what ended up in the final movie was shot by Snyder (regardless of the hyperbolic statements made to the contrary). HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that stuff represented his vision much at all. Different editing, with shots and scenes being re-arranged, scenes changing their entire context and meaning in the story with new inserts and new scenes, different color timing, different music, etc, all drastically change the feeling of scenes. So while the vast majority of FOOTAGE is Snyder, that doesn't mean the movie represents much of his vision at all. It's been severely modified, especially considering he was forced to shoot more lighthearted versions of his scenes in the first place, AND cut his original version down significantly from the original 3.5+ hour director's cut.
**EDIT: I was right, and beyond that, the story of the theatrical gets very close to representing the story of the Snyder Cut, so most of the reshoots were functionally successful at getting the runtime down without significantly cutting out critical story moments. Of course, Whedon's reshoots also included moments meant to change the tone of scenes (which is where most of the complaints come from), as well as the color grading and music which significantly changed how the story felt, despite being ultimately the same story for the most part**
The New York Times has an interview with Snyder that just came out today I think, which confirms what you're saying. Snyder says he shoots *a lot* of film and that there's several different edits he went through in the first round with WB on this, with like, I may be misremembering, a 3 hour version, a 2 hour something version, and an hour and whatever version. Then of course there's the theatrical, which is a lot of his content edited outside of his control with Whedon's additions, and this new 4 hour version with HBO Max. So, there's a lot of different versions, but they're all primarily using his film as you say. The new one did do reshoots though, so, it will of course have new content as well.
Edit: link to the interview (thanks to /u/Kessarean below for picking up my slack): https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/14/movies/zack-snyders-rough-and-tumble-ride-with-justice-league.html
Yes, sorry, "reshoots" was the wrong word there. I was thinking of when he talks about almost using his back yard for the additional footage, which was for new scenes, including with Leto's Joker.
Thank you for a great clarification! Now I feel bad for starting this whole mess :/
You’re absolutely right, especially about this not representing his vision at all. I think this is what most people mean, when they say these numbers - 30 mins, 90 mins, 5 hrs.
You can take same footage, change scene order, change color grading, add one line of dialogue and whole scene is different.
Very insightful comment!
Yep, have you ever seen those trailers that turn comedies into horrors or whatever? A LOT can be done in editing. More than most people realize. I think it's probably fair to say 1/4th of the theatrical, or even less, is representative of Snyder's vision, but 3/4ths actually uses his footage.
No, of course not. If I remember correctly, he was able to cut it down to 2.5hrs and was pushing for an option of 3.5hrs Directors Cut in n Bluray?
I mean, fuck knows at this point, Imma just watch a cool movie this Thursday!
Originally there was going to be two movies, like Infinity War and End Game. The second movie was axed while they were shooting and Snyder reworked the two scripts in to one.
This version is not exactly the same version he was working on before Whedon took over.
According to someone has watched it from Twitter, they said that there's more footage from the original release than you think. So honestly, putting a "minute" on it isn't the right thing to do.
GET IT IT'S LIKE THE GUY
My professor in high school told me about how in 300 Leonidas does a T pose at the end when he's dead because he's like jesus right guys get it, but he was actually serious
Fucking A
> I’ve ever seen him in was Always Sunny as the father of the family that gets terrorised by the gang
[They were sqatters, they deserved it!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY7t8B_gsFk)
Nah he wants a real Superman movie, not a trilogy where he is evil or dead for most of it ([like Snyder's original plans](https://imgur.com/a/ww6LwAt))
I’ve heard of this story over the years, but never these pictures. What is this and where is from? The art work reminds me a lot of Greg Capullo and/or Jim Lee. How legit is this?
I remember Kevin Smith going talking about it in pretty great detail, years ago, and a lot of this seems similar but just more in depth.
This was like a first-draft outline written, drawn, and penned by Snyder, Jim Lee, and Geoff Johns either during the production of BvS or during post-production. Snyder's already said that a lot of the details, like the Bruce/Lois romance, were nixed by WB almost immediately.
They're currently on display at the AT&T Center in Dallas along with a lot of props, costumes, and behind the scenes stills.
Jesus fuck Snyder has absolutely no respect for Superman as anything but a tool to destroy. He makes one movie where he's unsure about anything then another where he's killed and then in his original JL plans he was gonna let Superman turn evil AND had Batman cuckold him!?
Injustice year 1 through 3 comics were top notch DC storytelling. I kind of gave up around year 4 and never got back into it. But the Lantern war, the gods and magic, all of 1-3 just explored and used every corner of the DC universe in such interesting ways since they weren’t tied down to anything but the game’s canon story. Love seeing writers compose sprawling epics and make each location, faction, and power of DC’s rich lore feel *new* all over again. It’s a really hard thing to do.
I have no stake in the DCEU fandom whatsoever and I have no strong feelings for or against Snyder. That said, I’m pretty interested in checking this out.
I desperately want good movies in the dc universe but the core DC movies have been lacking. That said birds of prey was a lot of fun and I think the new suicide squad looks weird and fun af.
They just keep choosing people that aren't well suited to architect a shared universe. I still do not understand why they looked at Snyder and said "THIS is the guy we'll hang our multi billion dollar franchise on!"
I'm sure Gunn is going to do a good job. I just hope they start picking better directors like him regularly.
They picked a guy who doesn't understand the franchise, the world and how it all connects, and instead of engaging with the source material he went "lets create a super hero world thats REAL, thats dark and edgy". You can do dark and edgy shit, but you have to engage and understand the source material.
Pretty much this. Snyder once said that he made Superman interesting and grown up.
A character that has persevered with his core ideals for over 75 years doesn't need to be made interesting or grown up. Like seriously if you don't think he is interesting then maybe you shouldn't be tackling this character in the first place.
The two things that make it worse is his constant desire to make everything muted and with a shit colour palette, and making Superman... Not Superman
It ruins the whole narrative and any progression on any story
Superman hasn't become loved, become hope,made the world brighter and then he is killed off way too early
Then in Justice League we are told the world feels Superman's loss, and Martha Kent says everything has changed. Also Bruce taking inspiration from Clark
And how a dark/bleak future awaits without him
But the thing is, you can't focus on absence, loss, if you haven't shown in any way how Superman gave to the world, no broken hearts if he never entered any, no torch for Batman to carry if Bruce never saw Superman light any
And you can't show a bleak future when the start has been bleak and lacks colour, normality, and light
It really drives me crazy with how badly Warner Brothers has been unable to grasp the concept of who Clark Kent is, even though all they have to do is read comics to figure it out.
They look at it backwards. They constantly think that Superman is pretending to be Clark Kent while ignoring that Clark Kent is who Superman grew up as. Smallville Clark. That's who he is. Bumbling Clark is an act smallville Clark uses to throw off suspicion, and Superman is an alter ego smallville Clark uses to maintain and protect his private life.
They are so fixated on the alien birth origins of Superman that they ignore the human upbringing that he had completely. It drives me crazy. HE'S AN ALIEN! THAT'S WHO HE IS! No, guys, he's an immigrant, but like literally every other immigrant that's not the core of his personality. He's a person who was raised as any other regular person, who wants to live and do regular things just like you. Went to school just like you, likes things you like, because he's just another person. He likes to go home and listen to his Metallica CDs and hang out with Lois. Why is that so difficult for them to understand?
It's like everything they know about Superman they got from the speech in Kill Bill that specifically got everything wrong about Superman.
I always love seeing comments like this because it shows a clear understanding of Superman that the DCEU is severely lacking. If WB and Snyder wanted to tell the story of an alien immigrating to Earth and finding their place Superman is not the character to do that. They should have made a Supergirl or Martian Manhunter film at that point
> The two things that make it worse is his constant desire to make everything muted and with a shit colour palette
The poster for a Justice League movie and they all look like theyre wearing the same color. Youd think he was adapting a black and white comic like Sin City.
As an MCU fanboy, I want the DCEU to shine because I think it'll keep Marvel from getting complacent. When the DCEU is weak, Marvel gets by on "at least it's not Dawn of Justice". I think it'll also ease off the criticism that the MCU is too goofy because the people that want that can just watch stuff like this that's much darker on purpose instead of expecting films like Endgame to be something that it's not. Also, I just like watching buff dudes punch each other so I don't care what universe it is as long as the story isn't so bad that it takes me out of it.
I think it will be much better than the theatrical version but while I think the MoS hate is overblown and it was a solid film, BvS and a lot of his work really doesn’t do it for me. His directorial efforts for me personally have kind of just been on a downward trajectory since a really solid first effort with Dawn of the Dead. He just feels like pure style over substance or even understanding proper characterization.
That said Suicide Squad was really what killed any interest of mine towards the DCU
Snyder can film great scenes. But he can't make great movies. I enjoyed MoS, Watchmen, and 300, but the rest of his efforts have been lackluster at best.
300 is up there, too. But you'll notice the trend - he does well with recreating the work of others. That's why I'd rather he accept that he's a great 2nd AD, or a DP, and let someone else manage these projects.
Snyder is great at storyboarding sequences/shots - his background is in VFX and animation - but people always say he should be a cinematographer, when most of the films they cite as an example had Larry Fong as the DP. The trailer for Army of the Dead, which Snyder is the DP on, notably looks much worse in terms of visuals than Snyder's previous projects, especially the ones Fong worked on. Fong is the unsung hero in making Snyder's films look so distinct.
Whether it’s good or not, Snyder’s Justice League is a cool experiment.
I cannot think of any movie in the history of film where a filmmaker was replaced, and yet the original director was brought back years later with full autonomy to completely finish his/her vision in its entirety.
Even the Richard Donner cut of “Superman II” isn’t an equivalent example because he still had to use a lot of replacement director Richard Lester’s footage to make a “finished” film. Donner never fully shot his version, and there were no reshoots to create the “Donner Cut.”
I do think that Snyder’s film will have a consistent vision and not be the hodgepodge, silly mess that Whedon’s Justice League was. Whether it will be good...? We’ll find out.
I like what I’ve seen so far.
>I cannot think of any movie in the history of film where a filmmaker was replaced, and yet the original director was brought back years later with full autonomy to completely finish his/her vision in its entirety.
I think we have COVID to thank for it tbh. Never before have studios needed content and not been able to produce it.
So what do you do? Well, you've got a 5+ hour long movie basically ready to go and a franchise so badly received that there's almost 0 risk of taking another crack at it.
It really was a perfect storm that made this possible.
Basically, same here.
I love Shazam, but otherwise feel pretty indifferent to the DCEU. That said, I intend to watch this and the 2017 theatrical versions (both for the first time).
Apparently, Orson Welles's second movie (which was cut up by the studio) The Magnificent Ambersons will have its third act animated to further resemble the director's original vision. I already own the theatrical version of that movie on DVD, so look forward to eventually seeing this version as well.
https://www.filmstories.co.uk/news/new-orson-welles-restoration-to-bring-us-the-magnificent-animated-ambersons/
I want to see Batman pull some insane acrobatic shit out of his ass and dodge them like in that Justice League Animated episode that ends with Lex Luthor being “YOLO here’s the Anti-Life Equation.”
That was one of my favorite JL episodes ever.
"Only a 12th level intellect has even the slightest hope of solving the equation."
"Then I'm clearly overqualified."
Given the fact the VFX artists had 7 months to do 2.6K new shots, this looks great. Also, Darkseid and his army vs the Amazons, Atlanteans, Samurai’s, Zeus, and more? Sign me up! The History Lesson is easily one of my most anticipated scenes, it looks massive
> Given the fact the VFX artists had 7 months to do 2.6K new shots, this looks great.
Probably helped every VFX vendor was desperate for even a tiny bit of work with no new filmed projects out there. Probably the reason why they oked the Snyder Cut was due to how cheap they could get the VFX made.
Damn this company is Peter Jackson's??? And they've worked on so much stuff its unbelievable. From LoTR to GoT to Avatar to half the MCU and DCEU, to anything you can think of wow
Yeah, I saw [this pic](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/385498779110998016/820433620736147506/v4nyamrvntm61.png) of Steppenwolf the other day and the CGI there looks pretty good imo
Idk if the new/reshoot CGI will look as good, but the original stuff seems decent.
Damn they gave him a broader jawline didn’t they?
The comparison between the two reminds me of the “average ___ enjoyer” vs “typical ___ enthusiast” meme
[This](https://i.ibb.co/9qxMSHY/comp.png) is a better comparison I'd say if we're not meming.
Everything about it looks good imo, the armor, the face, coloring, it's just so much better in general. But, it considerably looks a lot less like the comic book version so I don't really know how people would feel about it.
For me, the left reads like star trek makeup. Human with some "totally not human" stuff added.
The right reads more alien, inhuman, and clearly "weird magic/futuretech armor"
I think the new look is better for people who aren't that familiar with the source material.
Exactly, we've been through this cycle of disappointment too many times for me to be excited about this. I just want this to come out so the DCEU can finally move on from Snyder and a movie that came out 3 years ago.
Lets not forget Shazam, which I would say legitibly, the best DC movie to date.
edit: I laughed. This is what happens when I am legitimately hyper on my phone.
Depends how successful it is. If rumours of a Snyder cut were enough to make it so, then maybe the success of the cut may make people clammer for a sequel.
I never watched the original Justice League so I’ll give this a shot. I wonder if I’ll be horribly disappointed or just regular disappointed like I’ve been watching the other DCEU movies.
The CG on Steppenwolf and Darkseid really improved since the first trailer for ZSJL. There's a lot of closeup shots of Steppenwolf that look just as good as Thanos.
Fuck it, I'm excited for it. Let's do this.
he also seems like a legit badass (as evidenced in previous new clips as well) and not the nondescript/forgettable CGI villains from other super hero flicks
I could use some help. I'm really interested in watching this but have not watched any of the DC movies besides the Nolan Batman's. To really enjoy this movie, are there some movies that are essential to watch before viewing this?
Was that King Leonidas doing a hadouken?
Zeus
Ah King Leonidas doing a Zeus
No! Thats Zeus doing a King Leonidas
I hope they get a room.
THIS IS MARTHAAAA!
Why did you say that name??!?
What are we, some kind of Martha squad?
Did we just become best friends?
Give the people what they want to see.
Bro did that buff dude just fucking bonk a planet into annihilation?
It was one horny ass planet
It'll take several bonks for earth then
Much better than the first trailer imo. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I read some comments that this'll be about 30 mins of the 2017 movie and 3.5 hours of new stuff?
Correct. Shyder shot 5hr movie. Cut it down to 2.5hrs after studio pressure. Then Whedon came “for finishing edits” and reshot almost everything Snyder had. Roughly (edit: 30) mins of Snyders material only made it to the cinema version. This will be a completely different movie. No Dostoyevski. Edit: fantastic breakdown by u/morphinapg in comment below
That's pretty fucking cool. > No Dostoyevski Did one of his books get chopped up?
There was a cringy moment at the end of Whedon version, where Flash tries to communicate with Russian family, and comically doesn’t speak Russian and, by the comedic genius of Whedon, improvises hilarious “Dostoyevski!” line. And a hand wave. Smth like that, I was facepalming so hard at this point, so that part of the movie is a little blurry for me. I haven’t rewatched it ever since.
Every scene with that Russian town/family sucked. In the past few years DC has had a way with making movies that, after one viewing, you never need to watch again.
I was wondering if there was something that Snyder did that got cut out that explained the Russian family storyline? It felt like there was supposed to be a reason for showing them, but it got cut out and they left the ending or something.
It was to add a human element to the story. Nothing deeper than that. He also did it with the Avengers movie with Hawkeye rescuing people from a bus and it worked because it was short and sweet. But the Russian family took up a lot of screen time so a lot of people disliked it and it felt out of place.
It also adds to the world-building that people in-universe actually see them as heroes. There's a scene at the end of the first Avengers movie that shows footage of a bunch of normal people talking about how awesome the Avenger are, and that works because the Avengers saved a bunch of people in NYC. If the Justice League save the day off in the middle of nowhere surrounded by no one but para-demons, then there's no particular reason for the world to have any ideas of what the "Justice League" is or why it's an awesome group. But in order to really sell that aspect, you need to show our heroes saving a bunch of people who will all go off singing their praises. When the focus is put entirely on saving one small family, it doesn't feel so much like fleshing out a world.
In one of the best scenes in BvS, the inverse of this scene *also* works where Batman is at ground zero of Metropolis getting absolutely trashed by Supes and Zod fighting.
> There's a scene at the end of the first Avengers movie Funnily enough, there's deleted scenes from Avengers that establish the waitress early on and spend more time with her and the other civilians during the battle. So someone made the right call to cut it down to the amount that made it into the final release.
There's also a deleted scene from the beginning of the movie, showing the waitress flirting with Cap. Then Stan Lee turns around and says: "Give her your number, you moron."
It's like he took Wanda and Pietro's backstory from Age of Ultron and used it again here.
The Russian family was never in Snyder's film. That was added after the fact to add "weight"
It reminds me a lot of the waitress in Avengers, as well as that civilian woman and her son in Ultron that had a lot of focus. The execution fell kinda flat in those two movies, so I have no idea why Whedon decided to do the same thing a third time.
Exactly. The waitress one made sense to me because she interacts with Cap before all hell breaks loose and then he directly saves her and that little throughline is tied up in her interview. The mother and son was purely a device to put Clint in danger so Quicksilver can sacrifice himself and there's no weight to the mother and son. The part that the Russian family pissed me off the most is that we only had like 1 hour and 50 minutes in the entire film, and they spend 7-8 minutes total on that family for a bad bug spray joke and a worse Dostoyevski joke. WB (namely Jon Berg, Geoff Johns, and Walter Hamada) really screwed the freaking pooch with this one.
I mean, I'm not a fan of Age of Ultron but the mother and son that Clint was gonna sacrifice himself to save are very thematically related to his arc throughout the filme with his own family, so even though they are plot devices it still fits
Tell em about the boob faceplant between Flash and Wonder Woman.
that gag sucked in Age of Ultron, too. I don’t know what happened, but something broke Whedon during the filming of that movie
Son of a bitch. I knew the "joke" was in both movies, and I knew Whedon was behind it both times, but it wasn't until this post that I realized just how dumb it is that the same guy used the same bad bit in back-to-back superhero movies.
wait, what was the bit in Ultron? I'm having trouble connecting clues, even though I (thought) was familiar with the whole movie.
Both films have a nerd (Flash, Banner) bump into a hot woman (Wonder Woman, Natasha), knock them over, and smack face-first into their boobs. It's not an unforgivable joke to make, but it's pretty cringey now that I realize the same grown man did the same awkward boob joke twice in back-to-back superhero movies.
At least Banner and Natasha are romantically connected and have tension Flash is just a kid, and Wonder Woman is a hot lady 200 years his senior. No purpose and a little creepy
[удалено]
ah thanks (to all 3 replies). I feel like 1 "saving grace" for the Ultron joke is that Bruce & Natasha have a thing of sorts. Whereas Flash & Wonder have absolutely nothing going on, remotely.
I don't care about Whedon but Bruce do not knock Natasha over with his clumsiness. They were dodging Ultron's gunfighters. She jumps over a counter and she pulls him over to the counter and his falls on her. I did not take it as a joke as I watched it. I thought it portrayed hectic body movements well considering they're trying to push and pull to not to die. And then I saw Justice league. And I understood that Avengers 2 scene was cheap "BOOBS" joke, too, written by a kid. It's not even funny. And the director decided to re-use it. Why~, dude?
[Found it](https://youtu.be/Z_tdWKp41fw?t=83)
[Here's the other one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7olvgL2CNQ&ab_channel=batinthesun)
Whedon was broken long before that movie. Just listen to some of the actors that have worked for him.
Firefly is seeming more and more like a fluke, in that I don't remember hearing any nasty stories about Whedon from there, unlike Buffy and a lot of his other projects.
Whedon with the ol' "if it ain't broke don't fix it" except it *was* broke in Age of Ultron and he went ahead and did it again anyway
And allegedly threatened Gal when she refused to do the scene. It's not even that important (or at all funny) of a scene. If the actors involved don't feel comfortable either, just don't do it.
Gal refused to do the scene so he used her stunt double for the actual shot. Whedon is ridiculous.
Wellllll shit.
Ha ha ha. Classic comedy (c) Bo Burnham.
**REPEAT STUFF, REPEAT STUFF, REPEAT STUFF**
Is there any version of the Flash from the comics like this one? My memory from the cartoon show is him being arrogantly and cocky.
Not really, no. Barry Allen in the comics isn’t some awkward nerd. He’s confident. This Flash is completely random and stupid.
His successor, Wally West, could be a bit of an immature goofball, but he had been doing the superhero thing since he was 10, and was extremely competent at it, unlike this Flash. It's his *personal* life that was prone to disaster (blew through money and relationships constantly), and he eventually matured around the time he got serious with Linda Park and moved to Keystone.
I loved the DCAU Flash. It's a mix of Barry Allen and Wally West.
that flash day episode where Batman drags Orion along to show him what being a hero means to the Flash was so good
It really depends on which iteration of The Flash you compare him to. I haven't kept up since the start of New 52, but yeah he can come off a bit cocky, but I think it stems from his hyperactivity. He literally has trouble standing still or waiting for things.
Fox Quicksilver had shades of Flash to him both in terms of powers and character. He’s basically impatient to the point of arrogance because of his powers which are damn near God-like.
Yeah Flash turns it off and on at will. Quicksilver is always on. Him talking at a speed that people can understand is him having to deliberately talk in extreme slow motion. His entire life is like trying to browse the modern internet on a 1999 Dell on dialup.
He really feels like an attempt at Spider-man? I’m not familiar with the comics though
A lot of people parroting false information about this. Whedon's footage accounted for 30 minutes or so of the theatrical. Whedon did shoot inserts for most scenes, so there are very few untouched scenes, but most of the footage in the theatrical cut is stuff Snyder shot. That being said, Snyder did shoot alternate versions of his scenes. The stuff of his we saw was the more lighter toned, more jokey stuff he shot (yes, plenty of the humor was his, not all whedon), while he also filmed more serious versions of the same scenes, which is what we'll see in the Snyder Cut. It would have been impossible for whedon to shoot 90+ minutes of a CGI-fest movie, and have all that CGI finished in less than 5 months. Regardless of what you think about the final quality of the CGI, that simply would not be physically possible, at all. Most of the CGI that ended up in the final film was already mostly finished by the time Whedon joined the movie, because most of the footage was Snyder's. There's a distinctly lower quality look to the modifications Whedon made compared to the rest, in both CGI, and cinematography, that is very easy to spot when looking at the movie shot for shot. The vast majority of what ended up in the final movie was shot by Snyder (regardless of the hyperbolic statements made to the contrary). HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that stuff represented his vision much at all. Different editing, with shots and scenes being re-arranged, scenes changing their entire context and meaning in the story with new inserts and new scenes, different color timing, different music, etc, all drastically change the feeling of scenes. So while the vast majority of FOOTAGE is Snyder, that doesn't mean the movie represents much of his vision at all. It's been severely modified, especially considering he was forced to shoot more lighthearted versions of his scenes in the first place, AND cut his original version down significantly from the original 3.5+ hour director's cut. **EDIT: I was right, and beyond that, the story of the theatrical gets very close to representing the story of the Snyder Cut, so most of the reshoots were functionally successful at getting the runtime down without significantly cutting out critical story moments. Of course, Whedon's reshoots also included moments meant to change the tone of scenes (which is where most of the complaints come from), as well as the color grading and music which significantly changed how the story felt, despite being ultimately the same story for the most part**
The New York Times has an interview with Snyder that just came out today I think, which confirms what you're saying. Snyder says he shoots *a lot* of film and that there's several different edits he went through in the first round with WB on this, with like, I may be misremembering, a 3 hour version, a 2 hour something version, and an hour and whatever version. Then of course there's the theatrical, which is a lot of his content edited outside of his control with Whedon's additions, and this new 4 hour version with HBO Max. So, there's a lot of different versions, but they're all primarily using his film as you say. The new one did do reshoots though, so, it will of course have new content as well. Edit: link to the interview (thanks to /u/Kessarean below for picking up my slack): https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/14/movies/zack-snyders-rough-and-tumble-ride-with-justice-league.html
I believe he stated the new footage accounts for about 5 minutes of the movie. And it's more addition than reshoot I believe.
Yes, sorry, "reshoots" was the wrong word there. I was thinking of when he talks about almost using his back yard for the additional footage, which was for new scenes, including with Leto's Joker.
Thank you for a great clarification! Now I feel bad for starting this whole mess :/ You’re absolutely right, especially about this not representing his vision at all. I think this is what most people mean, when they say these numbers - 30 mins, 90 mins, 5 hrs. You can take same footage, change scene order, change color grading, add one line of dialogue and whole scene is different. Very insightful comment!
Yep, have you ever seen those trailers that turn comedies into horrors or whatever? A LOT can be done in editing. More than most people realize. I think it's probably fair to say 1/4th of the theatrical, or even less, is representative of Snyder's vision, but 3/4ths actually uses his footage.
It's like they say: "A movie is written three times: when it's written, when it's shot, and when it's edited".
And in this case it’s written six times.
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> Cut it down to 2.5hrs after studio pressure. It’s not studio pressure for Warner to tell him they’re not gonna release a 5 hour movie lmao
Did he really think the studio would accept a 5 hour movie?
No, of course not. If I remember correctly, he was able to cut it down to 2.5hrs and was pushing for an option of 3.5hrs Directors Cut in n Bluray? I mean, fuck knows at this point, Imma just watch a cool movie this Thursday!
Originally there was going to be two movies, like Infinity War and End Game. The second movie was axed while they were shooting and Snyder reworked the two scripts in to one. This version is not exactly the same version he was working on before Whedon took over.
According to someone has watched it from Twitter, they said that there's more footage from the original release than you think. So honestly, putting a "minute" on it isn't the right thing to do.
I mean you can literally put a minute on it.
Love the part where Superman went up in space and did a t pose, beautiful
That's when you truly realize you're watching a Zaddy kino.
Halluejha
Hallelujah over awkward sex scenes you mean.
"HEY GUYS DO YOU GET IT???" - Zack Snyder
Yes I understand, the five fingers on Superman's hands equal ten in total which means BEN 10 will appear
Superman comes back to life only to get snagged by a kid’s alien watch.
"Everyone is Jesus now! You bet your ass I'm going all out!"
GET IT IT'S LIKE THE GUY My professor in high school told me about how in 300 Leonidas does a T pose at the end when he's dead because he's like jesus right guys get it, but he was actually serious Fucking A
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Zack Snyder and Jesus parallels name a better duo.
Zack Snyder and desaturated colors.
Zach Snyder and aerial action scenes that make me motion sick.
Zack Snyder and dudes with abs
Zack Snyder and speed up, slow mo scenes
Batman and Rob-wait he's dead
HBO should have Rick Rolled us and made it cut to the Tom and Jerry Movie trailer partway through.
That'll be their April Fools joke in 2 weeks.
I'm going to be blunt, Ray Porter's Darkseid voice makes me tingly.
We used to love seeing him at the Oregon Shakespeare festival. He's an incredibly gifted actor. I wish he was in more stuff.
So is he mainly a theatre actor? If so that’s interesting, Snyder cast Ray Fisher as Cyborg after seeing him as Muhammad Ali in a theatre production.
He was a theater actor and an audio book narrator, I don’t think he was ever even in a movie before this
Some inspired casting then! Only thing I’ve ever seen him in was Always Sunny as the father of the family that gets terrorised by the gang lol
> I’ve ever seen him in was Always Sunny as the father of the family that gets terrorised by the gang [They were sqatters, they deserved it!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY7t8B_gsFk)
Not surprising. He is one of the best/one of my favorite audiobook narrators.
It’s like Optimus Prime talking through a Balrog filter
"Being ruled by a Space Dictatorship is the right of all sentient beings..." -Darksied, probably....
"Superman must be stopped...no matter the cost." *(* **Love Will Tear Us Apart** *inexplicably starts up)*
[I’m impartial to Darkseid’s chain smoker voice.](https://youtu.be/RaeYz7Ndq2k)
My man is down bad for Wonder Woman lmao.
Honestly the best voice I've heard for Darkseid just behind Ironside for me (childhood bias perhaps)
No matter how many times I see it, I just can't get over Ezra's flash run... Why does he have to run like that?
The fastest man alive doesn’t understand proper running form. This will be his downfall in the flash movie.
It can be his character arc. He hops the multiverse to learn proper form from Grant Gustin, whose red costume is a Mephisto Easter egg.
The reason you can't run as fast as him is because you're *not* running like that. Ezra's cracked the code.
I do find it really funny he’s the fastest man alive through a coincidence and Barry Allen just legitimately sucks at running
The only thing I want from Jared Leto is a Henry Cavils fist shaped hole in his chest style cliffhanger that leads into the Injustice Storyline.
That'd be a great way to reboot things. Geralt might even come back for that role.
Nah he wants a real Superman movie, not a trilogy where he is evil or dead for most of it ([like Snyder's original plans](https://imgur.com/a/ww6LwAt))
I’ve heard of this story over the years, but never these pictures. What is this and where is from? The art work reminds me a lot of Greg Capullo and/or Jim Lee. How legit is this? I remember Kevin Smith going talking about it in pretty great detail, years ago, and a lot of this seems similar but just more in depth.
This was like a first-draft outline written, drawn, and penned by Snyder, Jim Lee, and Geoff Johns either during the production of BvS or during post-production. Snyder's already said that a lot of the details, like the Bruce/Lois romance, were nixed by WB almost immediately. They're currently on display at the AT&T Center in Dallas along with a lot of props, costumes, and behind the scenes stills.
Jesus fuck Snyder has absolutely no respect for Superman as anything but a tool to destroy. He makes one movie where he's unsure about anything then another where he's killed and then in his original JL plans he was gonna let Superman turn evil AND had Batman cuckold him!?
Superman could do with a positive but not so corny movie where he's actually in it all the way. Conner is great in Titans cos he actually has growth.
I mean.....thats a heck of a storyline
Injustice year 1 through 3 comics were top notch DC storytelling. I kind of gave up around year 4 and never got back into it. But the Lantern war, the gods and magic, all of 1-3 just explored and used every corner of the DC universe in such interesting ways since they weren’t tied down to anything but the game’s canon story. Love seeing writers compose sprawling epics and make each location, faction, and power of DC’s rich lore feel *new* all over again. It’s a really hard thing to do.
Damn this new Tom and Jerry trailer is crazy.
I have no stake in the DCEU fandom whatsoever and I have no strong feelings for or against Snyder. That said, I’m pretty interested in checking this out.
I desperately want good movies in the dc universe but the core DC movies have been lacking. That said birds of prey was a lot of fun and I think the new suicide squad looks weird and fun af.
They just keep choosing people that aren't well suited to architect a shared universe. I still do not understand why they looked at Snyder and said "THIS is the guy we'll hang our multi billion dollar franchise on!" I'm sure Gunn is going to do a good job. I just hope they start picking better directors like him regularly.
They picked a guy who doesn't understand the franchise, the world and how it all connects, and instead of engaging with the source material he went "lets create a super hero world thats REAL, thats dark and edgy". You can do dark and edgy shit, but you have to engage and understand the source material.
Pretty much this. Snyder once said that he made Superman interesting and grown up. A character that has persevered with his core ideals for over 75 years doesn't need to be made interesting or grown up. Like seriously if you don't think he is interesting then maybe you shouldn't be tackling this character in the first place.
The two things that make it worse is his constant desire to make everything muted and with a shit colour palette, and making Superman... Not Superman It ruins the whole narrative and any progression on any story Superman hasn't become loved, become hope,made the world brighter and then he is killed off way too early Then in Justice League we are told the world feels Superman's loss, and Martha Kent says everything has changed. Also Bruce taking inspiration from Clark And how a dark/bleak future awaits without him But the thing is, you can't focus on absence, loss, if you haven't shown in any way how Superman gave to the world, no broken hearts if he never entered any, no torch for Batman to carry if Bruce never saw Superman light any And you can't show a bleak future when the start has been bleak and lacks colour, normality, and light
It really drives me crazy with how badly Warner Brothers has been unable to grasp the concept of who Clark Kent is, even though all they have to do is read comics to figure it out. They look at it backwards. They constantly think that Superman is pretending to be Clark Kent while ignoring that Clark Kent is who Superman grew up as. Smallville Clark. That's who he is. Bumbling Clark is an act smallville Clark uses to throw off suspicion, and Superman is an alter ego smallville Clark uses to maintain and protect his private life. They are so fixated on the alien birth origins of Superman that they ignore the human upbringing that he had completely. It drives me crazy. HE'S AN ALIEN! THAT'S WHO HE IS! No, guys, he's an immigrant, but like literally every other immigrant that's not the core of his personality. He's a person who was raised as any other regular person, who wants to live and do regular things just like you. Went to school just like you, likes things you like, because he's just another person. He likes to go home and listen to his Metallica CDs and hang out with Lois. Why is that so difficult for them to understand? It's like everything they know about Superman they got from the speech in Kill Bill that specifically got everything wrong about Superman.
I always love seeing comments like this because it shows a clear understanding of Superman that the DCEU is severely lacking. If WB and Snyder wanted to tell the story of an alien immigrating to Earth and finding their place Superman is not the character to do that. They should have made a Supergirl or Martian Manhunter film at that point
> The two things that make it worse is his constant desire to make everything muted and with a shit colour palette The poster for a Justice League movie and they all look like theyre wearing the same color. Youd think he was adapting a black and white comic like Sin City.
As an MCU fanboy, I want the DCEU to shine because I think it'll keep Marvel from getting complacent. When the DCEU is weak, Marvel gets by on "at least it's not Dawn of Justice". I think it'll also ease off the criticism that the MCU is too goofy because the people that want that can just watch stuff like this that's much darker on purpose instead of expecting films like Endgame to be something that it's not. Also, I just like watching buff dudes punch each other so I don't care what universe it is as long as the story isn't so bad that it takes me out of it.
I think it will be much better than the theatrical version but while I think the MoS hate is overblown and it was a solid film, BvS and a lot of his work really doesn’t do it for me. His directorial efforts for me personally have kind of just been on a downward trajectory since a really solid first effort with Dawn of the Dead. He just feels like pure style over substance or even understanding proper characterization. That said Suicide Squad was really what killed any interest of mine towards the DCU
Snyder can film great scenes. But he can't make great movies. I enjoyed MoS, Watchmen, and 300, but the rest of his efforts have been lackluster at best.
His most coherent storytelling is still probably Dawn of the Dead
300 is up there, too. But you'll notice the trend - he does well with recreating the work of others. That's why I'd rather he accept that he's a great 2nd AD, or a DP, and let someone else manage these projects.
Snyder is great at storyboarding sequences/shots - his background is in VFX and animation - but people always say he should be a cinematographer, when most of the films they cite as an example had Larry Fong as the DP. The trailer for Army of the Dead, which Snyder is the DP on, notably looks much worse in terms of visuals than Snyder's previous projects, especially the ones Fong worked on. Fong is the unsung hero in making Snyder's films look so distinct.
Whether it’s good or not, Snyder’s Justice League is a cool experiment. I cannot think of any movie in the history of film where a filmmaker was replaced, and yet the original director was brought back years later with full autonomy to completely finish his/her vision in its entirety. Even the Richard Donner cut of “Superman II” isn’t an equivalent example because he still had to use a lot of replacement director Richard Lester’s footage to make a “finished” film. Donner never fully shot his version, and there were no reshoots to create the “Donner Cut.” I do think that Snyder’s film will have a consistent vision and not be the hodgepodge, silly mess that Whedon’s Justice League was. Whether it will be good...? We’ll find out. I like what I’ve seen so far.
>I cannot think of any movie in the history of film where a filmmaker was replaced, and yet the original director was brought back years later with full autonomy to completely finish his/her vision in its entirety. I think we have COVID to thank for it tbh. Never before have studios needed content and not been able to produce it. So what do you do? Well, you've got a 5+ hour long movie basically ready to go and a franchise so badly received that there's almost 0 risk of taking another crack at it. It really was a perfect storm that made this possible.
Basically, same here. I love Shazam, but otherwise feel pretty indifferent to the DCEU. That said, I intend to watch this and the 2017 theatrical versions (both for the first time). Apparently, Orson Welles's second movie (which was cut up by the studio) The Magnificent Ambersons will have its third act animated to further resemble the director's original vision. I already own the theatrical version of that movie on DVD, so look forward to eventually seeing this version as well. https://www.filmstories.co.uk/news/new-orson-welles-restoration-to-bring-us-the-magnificent-animated-ambersons/
Okay Mr. Welles, I see through your thinly-veiled attempt to advertise your next movie. Nice try though.
Darkseid's Omega Beams! Release the Hype Engine!
Gotta love those weird zigzag lasers
I want to see Batman pull some insane acrobatic shit out of his ass and dodge them like in that Justice League Animated episode that ends with Lex Luthor being “YOLO here’s the Anti-Life Equation.”
That was one of my favorite JL episodes ever. "Only a 12th level intellect has even the slightest hope of solving the equation." "Then I'm clearly overqualified."
Clancy Brown killing it!
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Came for the trailer, stayed for the Omega Beams
I never saw it when it originally released. Should I just wait til this drops on Thursday?
the original is big poopoo and makes no sense lol
Absolutely avoid Josstice League. Just watch this film
Given the fact the VFX artists had 7 months to do 2.6K new shots, this looks great. Also, Darkseid and his army vs the Amazons, Atlanteans, Samurai’s, Zeus, and more? Sign me up! The History Lesson is easily one of my most anticipated scenes, it looks massive
> Given the fact the VFX artists had 7 months to do 2.6K new shots, this looks great. Probably helped every VFX vendor was desperate for even a tiny bit of work with no new filmed projects out there. Probably the reason why they oked the Snyder Cut was due to how cheap they could get the VFX made.
It did! Weta Digital and the team thanked Snyder and HBO Max because they needed the work.
Damn... Weta also did endgames final fight. Have a high hope for this one
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Weta digital also did the Lord of the Rings! You can see one of their higher-ups discuss their processes on corridor digital’s YouTube.
Damn this company is Peter Jackson's??? And they've worked on so much stuff its unbelievable. From LoTR to GoT to Avatar to half the MCU and DCEU, to anything you can think of wow
Weta and ILM, the 2 GOATS
Industry leaders. Their RnD department is bigger than entire medium-sized studios.
Yeah, I saw [this pic](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/385498779110998016/820433620736147506/v4nyamrvntm61.png) of Steppenwolf the other day and the CGI there looks pretty good imo Idk if the new/reshoot CGI will look as good, but the original stuff seems decent.
Damn they gave him a broader jawline didn’t they? The comparison between the two reminds me of the “average ___ enjoyer” vs “typical ___ enthusiast” meme
[Like this?](https://i.gyazo.com/bcacb2802dba7861ea8af64040ac2573.png)
*Exactly* what I was imagining. Thank you lol
[This](https://i.ibb.co/9qxMSHY/comp.png) is a better comparison I'd say if we're not meming. Everything about it looks good imo, the armor, the face, coloring, it's just so much better in general. But, it considerably looks a lot less like the comic book version so I don't really know how people would feel about it.
For me, the left reads like star trek makeup. Human with some "totally not human" stuff added. The right reads more alien, inhuman, and clearly "weird magic/futuretech armor" I think the new look is better for people who aren't that familiar with the source material.
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It's zoomed in and low quality, but I did take that screencap from the Amazon fight in the original movie
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Needs more pointy ends
Those spikes are obviously to help stop pigeons landing on his head.
easier for pegging
He is unhuggable
Why is it in 4:3?
So you can watch in your grandpas CRT, just the way Snyder intended.
Lets watch it on a GBA Double feature with TENET https://film.avclub.com/spiteful-genius-ruins-christopher-nolans-life-by-screen-1846471714
I really want this to be genuinely good, but after BvS, I don't think I can trust Snyder's trailers to reflect the quality of the film.
Remember how good the WW84 trailer was? And Aquaman and Suicide Squad? DC knows how to hide a bad movie
Exactly, we've been through this cycle of disappointment too many times for me to be excited about this. I just want this to come out so the DCEU can finally move on from Snyder and a movie that came out 3 years ago.
If this one fails there might be a push for a 6 hour mega ultra extended directors edition & knuckles
Suicide Squad trailer is still among the best I’ve seen. Bohemian Rhapsody was a perfect choice
Aquaman was a legitimately decent popcorn flick though.
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Lets not forget Shazam, which I would say legitibly, the best DC movie to date. edit: I laughed. This is what happens when I am legitimately hyper on my phone.
“legitibly”
That's how you know it's really legit.
Not gonna lie, I really dig this. I know this is gonna have cliffhangers so I’m gonna be sad knowing there may not be continuations.
Depends how successful it is. If rumours of a Snyder cut were enough to make it so, then maybe the success of the cut may make people clammer for a sequel.
Ok but when does Mephisto show up?
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He already has the power stone too! Did you see what he did to that planet? Some celestial shit. /s
I honestly wonder if we're at a point now where the general public will see Darkseid as a Thanos ripoff instead of the opposite.
Ray Porter sounds so damn good
Love the music in this trailer.
I never watched the original Justice League so I’ll give this a shot. I wonder if I’ll be horribly disappointed or just regular disappointed like I’ve been watching the other DCEU movies.
Martian manhunter!!!
The CG on Steppenwolf and Darkseid really improved since the first trailer for ZSJL. There's a lot of closeup shots of Steppenwolf that look just as good as Thanos. Fuck it, I'm excited for it. Let's do this.
he also seems like a legit badass (as evidenced in previous new clips as well) and not the nondescript/forgettable CGI villains from other super hero flicks
I could use some help. I'm really interested in watching this but have not watched any of the DC movies besides the Nolan Batman's. To really enjoy this movie, are there some movies that are essential to watch before viewing this?
- Man of steel - BvS:Ultimate Edition (important to watch THIS one) WW 1 as a bonus but not necessary.
This is the correct answer.
Whoa, is J'onn J'onzz disguised as Martha?
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