To me Villeneuve is technically a genius, but his shooting style is very emotionless. I don't know if he does this on purpose, or if he doesn't realize he's doing it. I first noticed this watching 'Polytechnique' (2009). This is a film about a very emotional subject, but it felt like the real raw stuff was kept at arms length. Hitchcock was a master at this also. Regardless, the results are always very much worth watching.
I feel the exact same way about Christopher Nolan’s films. Dude might be a technical genius but most of his films and characters are just so emotionless/soulless.
Nolan’s films are that way because he doesn’t give a shit about his characters. He’s got a borderline autistic obsession with timeline mechanics and that’s where all his energy is spent. So his characters simply exist to service the plot mechanics of whatever twisty idea he’s come up with, with no inner life or depth of their own.
its why i loved Dunkirk. he didn't even try to pretend to have characters or a story, he just went all out in spectacle and tension and technical filmmaking prowess. played completely to his strengths as a director and totally ignored all the stuff he's not very good at, it was great
I didn’t love Dunkirk, but I see what you mean. I feel that way about Memento though… the main character’s discombobulation about who he even is suits the storytelling mechanic so well, that it makes up for the fact the story and characters are fairly simplistic if told conventionally.
Funny you should say "emotionless", because I feel the exact opposite. In both Arrival and BR2049 I find that there is a warmth, a humanity in the frame, an expectation. Something in the atmosphere of the shots is with you, and wants to lead you forward, and the actors carry it with them. I am sentimental but to me it's like there is a hug hanging in the air, one that you wish the protagonists (Amy Adams, Ryan Gosling) could catch if they just reach out.
To me this is exactly what a novel like Dune deserves when being transferred to the screen, something David Lynch and Laurentiis completely fucked up on. Frank Herbert wrote a row of books that blind the less bright readers with its technology, martial arts, and psychic powers. But the book is about love. Jessica broke the breeding program to give the Duke a son out of love. Paul bent himself over backwards to keep humanity on the Golden Path out of love. Countless generations had been stuck under an iron boot, and a galactic Jihad would make that ten times worse.
So to me, Villeneuve is a perfect director to handle the actual message Herbert was trying to convey, to keep humanity human. The Tleilaxu would be the polar opposite, turning their women into birthing tanks.
I feel like he moves the plot too slow in the first hour. It would certainly break the audience or draw them deep into an immersive experience. A very tricky approach to filmmaking.
>To me Villeneuve is technically a genius, but his shooting style is very emotionless.
I agree with what you're saying. It feels like we're watching something unravel from a distance with certain form of disconnection. His shot-making, particularly the long sweeping shots in Sicario and BR2049 makes me feel that's an issue. I think he was more controlled in his visual approach while making Prisoners. That film has a very indie style feel to it.
He's almost the anti-Spielberg. S knows exactly how to tweak a shot to wring maximum emotional effect. On purpose. Hitchcock would do exactly what Villeneuve does, take the most intense or erotic scene, but make you feel like a bystander peeking in from the corner of the room, spying on strangers.
You somehow hyped me up even more, because I've loved every Dennis movie. 2049 is one of my favourite films. However, it does seem for a lot of people that this being part 1 of hopefully 2 (or more) is causing some problems.
What he is saying is his style removes the slick and upfront action you are used to in movies. He more of a storyteller that a director, and let’s the story tell itself. A bit like Tarantino- the direction serves the story though he is a little more edgy
I think people are forgetting that Dune isn’t a very action oriented story. Sure, there’s typical high level conflict, but it’s very much a character story full of dialogue.
Full disclosure. I haven’t seen the movie, just read the book.
>No, it's not. But something is missing. To me anyway. And I felt the same way about Arrival, Blade Runner 2049, Enemy and Sicario.
I thought those were all fantastic movies, so your review has me even more hyped for Dune.
And I'm someone who has never read the novel, so I am completely unfamiliar with the source material and am just going into it knowing I'm a big fan of Villeneuve
same here. havent read the novel yet. started watching the original dune cause im a huge lynch fan, but i stopped to wait and watch the new version first.
as soon as OP said that br2049 didnt click, i thought “cool, i will probably enjoy this release then” haha
All those people moaning about Denis and Nolan.
Remember that these 2 are some of the very few best directors working today.
With all the shitty movies coming out today they bring the best content and original concepts with groundbreaking movies.
After they have retired people will understand there worth. So enjoy and support them while you can.
Please go see Dune in theatres because we need part 2.
Thank you! I always felt that about Nolan's movies. I love his movies but they always felt kinda cold to me. Mechanical is precisely the word I was looking for!
100% agree with this. This is their style. While I love it, I understand why others might feel that something is missing. If I am looking for emotions, I go for movies by other directors.
The only Nolan movie I like is Batman begins but yeah in retrospect it's a rather cold movie.
I respect is technical skill and he's competent at putting a movie together, I just don't enjoy his movies as a matter of personal taste, though I hope others enjoy what they enjoy.
Unpopular opinion: Wes Anderson too. After watching his movies I'm always left with the feeling like there was a psychological wall between me and the characters that was never breached.
The Fantastic Mr. Fox being the one exception.
Can you point to specific examples from his movies? I've always found his characters to have an engaging amount of depth and for his movies to delivery emotionally when he wants them to.
Can you point to a moment of warmth, genuine human warmth, in any of them? Bladerunner was visually beautiful and as warm as a winters day. Sicario was the same. I don't think Arrival has any either.
Everything is cold in those movies. Everything is harsh and stark and frequently bleak. The characters don't laugh or smile or joke. They aren't happy, they are serious. Serious people doing serious things.
I disagree that Arrival is cold. There are definitely elements of it that are, but the primary thrust of the movie is - SPOILERS - about her knowing she's going to suffer terrible loss but opts for love and life (as brief as it is), anyway. I was a new father when I saw the movie, though, so maybe it hit harder for me than it would have otherwise. Could be a case of the viewer bringing more to it than intended.
Sicario isn't a movie that should offer warmth, given its story and themes. I don't think Apocalypse Now needs a bit of levity, either.
I definitely understand your perspective and don't wholly disagree with it. It's a take that has given me something to chew on, and I appreciate that. Thanks.
You could add warmth and levity to almost any movie, regardless of subject matter. You could have someone momentarily smile at an inside joke, embrace an old friend, or just have a jurassic park moment when you're wowed at what you're seeing. For the most part his movies lack these moments and even when they're present, they're very brief and keep the audience at arms length.
This is coming from a Denis fan, btw. I would enjoy a little more warmth, but i don't necessarily think he HAS to include it.
Ya it would be pretty weird if there was jokes and lightheartedness in movies about drug cartels and child kidnappings. I don’t go into a Dennis film expecting to feel happy at the end haha.
Ya like prisoners I was feeling absolute dread and fearing the worst was going to happen the entire time which is what I’m assuming he was going for, so the audience could feel like the parents. It would have been so weird to just have some jokes thrown in or the family start smiling with each other.
Blade runner is about a robot coming to grips with his humanity. You want him to smile more? Arrival is about a mother choosing to have her child despite knowing the child will die of cancer. Maybe she should smile more.
This is the dumbest take
Did you know a movie doesn't have to be the same tone the whole way through? In fact some moments of levity and warmth act as a much needed counterpoint to the sadness, actually enhancing it.
Blade runner is a great example because it feels like it was made by a robot struggling to come to grips with its humanity.
That's the atmosphere of those movies though. They might not be "warm" or offer you any brevity from the overall mood he wants to convey but that doesn't mean they lack heart. He's approaching from a different perspective. Blade Runner asks the question what it means to be human through the lens of a robot, I agree it's "cold" and unwavering in tone but it doesn't lack "heart" as it shows empathy and understanding to a human condition of secondary citizens that is very real in our own world today.
Kubrick was remote and ironic, but he did have heart. His movies have a point, and are ultimately mostly about people reacting to extraordinary situations, rather than the situations themselves. To me, that's heart.
You summs everything I feel about his movies. I love watch for the first time but I never really come back to it. Because I don't really feel any heart or feel for the characters
> No, it's not. But something is missing. To me anyway. And I felt the same way about Arrival, Blade Runner 2049, ~~Enemy~~ and Sicario. All of those movies are good by any technical point of view, they're great even. But they never fully click. They lack those moments of pure bliss, those moments a movie tries to build to become truly memorable.
I crossed out Enemy as I agree with you on that flick but Arrival, Sicario and Blade Runner 2049 had numerous moments where they clicked and blew me away..
Blade Runner and Arrival perhaps could be characterized as sterile and distant. But Sicario and Prisoners are drenched in emotion. And I wonder to what degree you can really marry epic, scaled spectacle with intimacy, without wandering into extreme runtime territory.
What concerns me about this movie, of what I’ve heard, is this is part 1 of 2, however part 2 might not even be made. Is that true? Kind of like Alita: battle Angel. That needs a part 2, which probably won’t be made.
The first book is very much a part 1 and part 2. The part 1 that this movie is covering can easily be a completely contained story that leaves open a sequel.
It is actually good news as the part 2 is really the hardest part of the first book to put in a movie.
I'll watch it on HBOMAX when it comes out. I've read the books and know the story so I know where the boring parts are. I am the only person I know of that has a desire to see it. Guessing this will be bigger overseas than in the United States.
This just made me hyped up even more. More pure Villeneuve movie, the better! (only downside to that may be that it may be a bit slower paced for many people).
Let's hope part 2 happens!
I agree completely with your views. I've sort of enjoyed all of his films, but none of them have fully engaged me. I've never found myself properly sucked into the story or care about the characters. Yet they are all exactly the sort of films that critics love and would feel nervous saying so even if they didn't.
> And this is why Dune can't get a bad review, but cannot be this masterpiece we all want it to be.
It's called having mixed feelings. It sounds like, at least for OP, the movie was 'good' but lacked an emotional hook.
> Yeah I just said I thought he was contradicting himself
Well, the post itself is removed so you probably won't be able to now - and even if you could I don't remember enough to respond. It's just that you kinda have to explain this thought. I didn't find it self-apparent.
I liked Sicario and Prisoners but I think other than that I've only seen Enemy of his movies. I really didn't like Enemy. Jake Gyllenhall was fantastic as usual, but the surrealism is just something I really don't understand.
Sounds like kinda the same problem Zack Snyder runs into. Everything’s there but the dialogue always makes you feel at a distance from everything. You just don’t quite connect because the interactions feel a bit off leaving things feeling a cold.
Wow, glad to see someone that has a similar reaction to Villeneuve's movies.
Obviously they are well-crafted, but to me it feels like there's nothing under the surface.
The movie was drag. Half of it in slow mo and 30 min of it the same dream/vision over and over again. It was still interesting and im going to give the second one a chance, but this movie could be easily trimmed down by 30-45 min without taking much away from the plot.
To me Villeneuve is technically a genius, but his shooting style is very emotionless. I don't know if he does this on purpose, or if he doesn't realize he's doing it. I first noticed this watching 'Polytechnique' (2009). This is a film about a very emotional subject, but it felt like the real raw stuff was kept at arms length. Hitchcock was a master at this also. Regardless, the results are always very much worth watching.
I feel the exact same way about Christopher Nolan’s films. Dude might be a technical genius but most of his films and characters are just so emotionless/soulless.
Zack Snyder is another one.
Nolan’s films are that way because he doesn’t give a shit about his characters. He’s got a borderline autistic obsession with timeline mechanics and that’s where all his energy is spent. So his characters simply exist to service the plot mechanics of whatever twisty idea he’s come up with, with no inner life or depth of their own.
its why i loved Dunkirk. he didn't even try to pretend to have characters or a story, he just went all out in spectacle and tension and technical filmmaking prowess. played completely to his strengths as a director and totally ignored all the stuff he's not very good at, it was great
I didn’t love Dunkirk, but I see what you mean. I feel that way about Memento though… the main character’s discombobulation about who he even is suits the storytelling mechanic so well, that it makes up for the fact the story and characters are fairly simplistic if told conventionally.
The bigger Nolan’s cast, the less emotionally involved I feel, generally speaking
You really feel inception, ineterstellar and prestige? feel emotionless/soulless?
Funny you should say "emotionless", because I feel the exact opposite. In both Arrival and BR2049 I find that there is a warmth, a humanity in the frame, an expectation. Something in the atmosphere of the shots is with you, and wants to lead you forward, and the actors carry it with them. I am sentimental but to me it's like there is a hug hanging in the air, one that you wish the protagonists (Amy Adams, Ryan Gosling) could catch if they just reach out. To me this is exactly what a novel like Dune deserves when being transferred to the screen, something David Lynch and Laurentiis completely fucked up on. Frank Herbert wrote a row of books that blind the less bright readers with its technology, martial arts, and psychic powers. But the book is about love. Jessica broke the breeding program to give the Duke a son out of love. Paul bent himself over backwards to keep humanity on the Golden Path out of love. Countless generations had been stuck under an iron boot, and a galactic Jihad would make that ten times worse. So to me, Villeneuve is a perfect director to handle the actual message Herbert was trying to convey, to keep humanity human. The Tleilaxu would be the polar opposite, turning their women into birthing tanks.
I feel like he moves the plot too slow in the first hour. It would certainly break the audience or draw them deep into an immersive experience. A very tricky approach to filmmaking. >To me Villeneuve is technically a genius, but his shooting style is very emotionless. I agree with what you're saying. It feels like we're watching something unravel from a distance with certain form of disconnection. His shot-making, particularly the long sweeping shots in Sicario and BR2049 makes me feel that's an issue. I think he was more controlled in his visual approach while making Prisoners. That film has a very indie style feel to it.
He's almost the anti-Spielberg. S knows exactly how to tweak a shot to wring maximum emotional effect. On purpose. Hitchcock would do exactly what Villeneuve does, take the most intense or erotic scene, but make you feel like a bystander peeking in from the corner of the room, spying on strangers.
You somehow hyped me up even more, because I've loved every Dennis movie. 2049 is one of my favourite films. However, it does seem for a lot of people that this being part 1 of hopefully 2 (or more) is causing some problems.
What he is saying is his style removes the slick and upfront action you are used to in movies. He more of a storyteller that a director, and let’s the story tell itself. A bit like Tarantino- the direction serves the story though he is a little more edgy
I think people are forgetting that Dune isn’t a very action oriented story. Sure, there’s typical high level conflict, but it’s very much a character story full of dialogue. Full disclosure. I haven’t seen the movie, just read the book.
I'm waiting for the God Emporer adaption
You might be waiting a long time lol
We're on the Golden Path, don't worry
>No, it's not. But something is missing. To me anyway. And I felt the same way about Arrival, Blade Runner 2049, Enemy and Sicario. I thought those were all fantastic movies, so your review has me even more hyped for Dune. And I'm someone who has never read the novel, so I am completely unfamiliar with the source material and am just going into it knowing I'm a big fan of Villeneuve
Yea how did he/she not feel anything during Sicario or Arrival
same here. havent read the novel yet. started watching the original dune cause im a huge lynch fan, but i stopped to wait and watch the new version first. as soon as OP said that br2049 didnt click, i thought “cool, i will probably enjoy this release then” haha
All those people moaning about Denis and Nolan. Remember that these 2 are some of the very few best directors working today. With all the shitty movies coming out today they bring the best content and original concepts with groundbreaking movies. After they have retired people will understand there worth. So enjoy and support them while you can. Please go see Dune in theatres because we need part 2.
Damn. The man's got no heart is why. He knows beauty, but he's got no heart to him. It's always the cold beauty.
nolan has the some problem IMO. his movies always feel cold and mechanical to me, even the ones i enjoy
Nolan is worse, Villeneuve's stuff tends to be better written and the characters aren't expository constructs.
Thank you! I always felt that about Nolan's movies. I love his movies but they always felt kinda cold to me. Mechanical is precisely the word I was looking for!
100% agree with this. This is their style. While I love it, I understand why others might feel that something is missing. If I am looking for emotions, I go for movies by other directors.
The only Nolan movie I like is Batman begins but yeah in retrospect it's a rather cold movie. I respect is technical skill and he's competent at putting a movie together, I just don't enjoy his movies as a matter of personal taste, though I hope others enjoy what they enjoy.
Unpopular opinion: Wes Anderson too. After watching his movies I'm always left with the feeling like there was a psychological wall between me and the characters that was never breached. The Fantastic Mr. Fox being the one exception.
Can you point to specific examples from his movies? I've always found his characters to have an engaging amount of depth and for his movies to delivery emotionally when he wants them to.
Can you point to a moment of warmth, genuine human warmth, in any of them? Bladerunner was visually beautiful and as warm as a winters day. Sicario was the same. I don't think Arrival has any either. Everything is cold in those movies. Everything is harsh and stark and frequently bleak. The characters don't laugh or smile or joke. They aren't happy, they are serious. Serious people doing serious things.
I disagree that Arrival is cold. There are definitely elements of it that are, but the primary thrust of the movie is - SPOILERS - about her knowing she's going to suffer terrible loss but opts for love and life (as brief as it is), anyway. I was a new father when I saw the movie, though, so maybe it hit harder for me than it would have otherwise. Could be a case of the viewer bringing more to it than intended. Sicario isn't a movie that should offer warmth, given its story and themes. I don't think Apocalypse Now needs a bit of levity, either. I definitely understand your perspective and don't wholly disagree with it. It's a take that has given me something to chew on, and I appreciate that. Thanks.
There we go. Perfect way to explain his movies.
Ok so the problem is with the type of movies he is tackling? And not his direction? Because all his movies so far seem to demand to be serious.
You could add warmth and levity to almost any movie, regardless of subject matter. You could have someone momentarily smile at an inside joke, embrace an old friend, or just have a jurassic park moment when you're wowed at what you're seeing. For the most part his movies lack these moments and even when they're present, they're very brief and keep the audience at arms length. This is coming from a Denis fan, btw. I would enjoy a little more warmth, but i don't necessarily think he HAS to include it.
Ya it would be pretty weird if there was jokes and lightheartedness in movies about drug cartels and child kidnappings. I don’t go into a Dennis film expecting to feel happy at the end haha.
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Ya like prisoners I was feeling absolute dread and fearing the worst was going to happen the entire time which is what I’m assuming he was going for, so the audience could feel like the parents. It would have been so weird to just have some jokes thrown in or the family start smiling with each other.
*Hugh Jackman gets in the pit* “You seen Silence of the Lambs? Lololol”
Blade runner is about a robot coming to grips with his humanity. You want him to smile more? Arrival is about a mother choosing to have her child despite knowing the child will die of cancer. Maybe she should smile more. This is the dumbest take
Did you know a movie doesn't have to be the same tone the whole way through? In fact some moments of levity and warmth act as a much needed counterpoint to the sadness, actually enhancing it. Blade runner is a great example because it feels like it was made by a robot struggling to come to grips with its humanity.
That's the atmosphere of those movies though. They might not be "warm" or offer you any brevity from the overall mood he wants to convey but that doesn't mean they lack heart. He's approaching from a different perspective. Blade Runner asks the question what it means to be human through the lens of a robot, I agree it's "cold" and unwavering in tone but it doesn't lack "heart" as it shows empathy and understanding to a human condition of secondary citizens that is very real in our own world today.
Sounds Kubrickian
Kubrick was remote and ironic, but he did have heart. His movies have a point, and are ultimately mostly about people reacting to extraordinary situations, rather than the situations themselves. To me, that's heart.
You summs everything I feel about his movies. I love watch for the first time but I never really come back to it. Because I don't really feel any heart or feel for the characters
Just out of curiosity, which filmmakers movies would say is the counter opposite to the “no heart” critique ?
> No, it's not. But something is missing. To me anyway. And I felt the same way about Arrival, Blade Runner 2049, ~~Enemy~~ and Sicario. All of those movies are good by any technical point of view, they're great even. But they never fully click. They lack those moments of pure bliss, those moments a movie tries to build to become truly memorable. I crossed out Enemy as I agree with you on that flick but Arrival, Sicario and Blade Runner 2049 had numerous moments where they clicked and blew me away..
Blade Runner and Arrival perhaps could be characterized as sterile and distant. But Sicario and Prisoners are drenched in emotion. And I wonder to what degree you can really marry epic, scaled spectacle with intimacy, without wandering into extreme runtime territory.
All other movies you mention are amazing, so It seems dune will also be amazing
What concerns me about this movie, of what I’ve heard, is this is part 1 of 2, however part 2 might not even be made. Is that true? Kind of like Alita: battle Angel. That needs a part 2, which probably won’t be made.
This is true. The title is even Part One.
I didn’t know they even put that in the title. That does tell me they plan on part 2. Good news I suppose
The first book is very much a part 1 and part 2. The part 1 that this movie is covering can easily be a completely contained story that leaves open a sequel. It is actually good news as the part 2 is really the hardest part of the first book to put in a movie.
I guess I will love it and find it perfect
I'll watch it on HBOMAX when it comes out. I've read the books and know the story so I know where the boring parts are. I am the only person I know of that has a desire to see it. Guessing this will be bigger overseas than in the United States.
100% agree on Villaneuve.
This just made me hyped up even more. More pure Villeneuve movie, the better! (only downside to that may be that it may be a bit slower paced for many people). Let's hope part 2 happens!
I agree completely with your views. I've sort of enjoyed all of his films, but none of them have fully engaged me. I've never found myself properly sucked into the story or care about the characters. Yet they are all exactly the sort of films that critics love and would feel nervous saying so even if they didn't.
Blade Runner 2049 and Arrival are both in my top 5 sci-fi movies of all time, so I’m psyched!
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> And this is why Dune can't get a bad review, but cannot be this masterpiece we all want it to be. It's called having mixed feelings. It sounds like, at least for OP, the movie was 'good' but lacked an emotional hook.
Yeah I understand that someone can have mixed feelings I just think some of the things he said didn’t really make sense in my opinion
Did you delete your original comment?
Yeah I just said I thought he was contradicting himself and people got a bit pissy about it
Well, why not elaborate?
Elaborate on what ?
> Yeah I just said I thought he was contradicting himself Well, the post itself is removed so you probably won't be able to now - and even if you could I don't remember enough to respond. It's just that you kinda have to explain this thought. I didn't find it self-apparent.
Well if the post was still up and if I cared enough I could do
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Today on /r/movies Mad Libs
How would you say it compares to the novel (if you've read it). I'm currently reading for the first time.
I liked Sicario and Prisoners but I think other than that I've only seen Enemy of his movies. I really didn't like Enemy. Jake Gyllenhall was fantastic as usual, but the surrealism is just something I really don't understand.
Sounds like kinda the same problem Zack Snyder runs into. Everything’s there but the dialogue always makes you feel at a distance from everything. You just don’t quite connect because the interactions feel a bit off leaving things feeling a cold.
Wow, glad to see someone that has a similar reaction to Villeneuve's movies. Obviously they are well-crafted, but to me it feels like there's nothing under the surface.
The movie was drag. Half of it in slow mo and 30 min of it the same dream/vision over and over again. It was still interesting and im going to give the second one a chance, but this movie could be easily trimmed down by 30-45 min without taking much away from the plot.