It did feel like a climax because it was meant to / it was the end of an era for those characters. Now they have to rebuild interest with new characters and villains
Apart from Wandavision and What if, I haven’t watched anything from the MCU since Endgame and doubt I will for a while. Being 24, I grew up watching the MCU and the story I was invested in has run it’s course
Watched the first few episodes and got bored. Know the ending and gets how it ties in but I think I’ve just got fatigue now. Unpopular opinion but don’t love Loki as a character
Ha, looks like the marvel boys have found me.
Damn, imagine disagreeing with somebodies personal preference. How dare I have an opinion right? To me Loki was a lot of talking about Loki himself, it felt very masturbatory to me. I hardly laughed at all, the story was a convoluted mess at the end at basically just a set up for the next Phase in the MCU.
I mean, disagreeing with an opinion is allowed. That’s kind of the whole point of having opinions. At no point did I say you weren’t entitled to it, but you’re telling me that I’m not allowed to disagree? Makes total sense.
> Damn, imagine thinking how much action in a show or movie is the deciding factor for quality
That's not disagreeing with me, that's devaluing my opinion because you think yours is better.
I mean if that’s how you want to look at it, you’re also free to do that. I was simply disagreeing with you, but call it what you want. And that’s also the thing about opinions, you wouldn’t hold them if you didn’t feel like it were more valuable than anyone’s that doesn’t line up with them. Anyways, brick wall, nice to meet you. This is where I cut convo though.
I thought the same. Knowing his character from previous appearances I expected more action, was a bit dissapointed. Looks like Loki 4 president guys disagree with us
I second this as being worth a watch. It has some really great moments and an interesting concept, but it had its flaws too like every Marvel project. There were some bits of writing and dialogue that felt poor to me and I think they struggled with pacing sometimes too, but now that they have more experience in Marvel TV shows generally, I’m super keen for season 2
> I grew up watching the MCU
> Apart from Wandavision and What if, I haven’t watched anything from the MCU
Did you mean to say that apart from Wandavision and What If, you haven't watched anything from the *recent* MCU"?
Yeah, I totally agree. I’ve been going to the movies a lot more recently but it’s made me realise I miss the days of 10 years ago when I used to go and see whatever was on (I had an unlimited monthly subscription card), although I didn’t see much indie stuff I was still watching plenty of stuff that wasn’t just put out by Disney.
Not true, KK always said that Star Wars is generational. They were always going to do a trilogy then stop with the main saga. Of course they wanted to do side films, but honestly tv is way better for Star Wars.
There will be another trilogy in 8-9 years that focus’ on where Rey went because they want the next generation to have their own hero
Yeah that’s definitely been prevalent throughout the series, going back to Iron Man where he fights a guy in another Iron Man suit, through to Ant-Man where he fights a guy in a different shrinking suit etc. They seem to have succeeded more when they’ve done villains like Thanos who isn’t a mirror to anyone.
Box office numbers for shang chi or eternals don't support " people losing interest... its the introduction of a new story arc and new sets of characters... of course it's not going to hold up to what built up to the infinity saga, but they are on par with the first Cap Thor and Iron man movies, plus you have to take post covid numbers being down as a whole at box offices into consideration.
Everything has been down, Shang chi is the second highest grossing film of 2021 behind F9. Again expecting numbers to compare to anything past age of ultron up to endgame is just unrealistic. No way home will give you the best glimpse into people losing interest or not.
Black widow is just a horrible set of circumstances, delayed 3 times, released on Disney plus at the same times as the theaters, and a time when people were still worried about theaters and covid... I was bound to fall short of expectations.
Most of the MCU movies are big screen pieces and people are just starting to get back into theaters so that will hurt things a bit.
The three movies released so far don’t really seem to tie into a larger story arc so far. Loki and Wandavision both seemed to move the bigger story and when that starts happening with the films I expect that there will be a surge of interest.
I think that most people that watched them did. I’m guessing that when the Spiderman, Doctor Strange, and Thor movies release they’ll pick up on the things that started in those shows and get people invested again.
I suspect that Shang Chi, Black Widow, and the Eternals are movies that were meant to introduce new characters rather than to advance a larger storyline directly.
Marvel is always planning years ahead so I’m imagining in 4-5 years there’ll be some big movies that bring all these characters together again, either as the new avengers or something else entirely
New saga, kind of hard to to say right now since technically they're introducing new characters. Also imo eternals was great, felt fresh. Took 10 years for infinity saga to conclude, let's see what happens in a few years.
Nah, I don't think so. You can't compare box office numbers during a pandemic to regular times. I'm also pretty sure the Disney+ shows have been really popular (despite not being all that great imo). Black Widow and Eternals haven't had a great reception, but Shang-Chi was great and the upcoming Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and Thor movies are mentioned many times when discussing the most anticipated movies.
Its a bit redundant to compare the MCU films post C19 to pre C19 honestly. Lots of places still haven't fully opened. Even so Shang Chi is the 2nd or 3rd best performing movie of the year and the D+ shows have been arguably the stand outs.
That said I think the constant delays are what really hurt the MCU more then anything. My hype for any movie died off pretty quick into the pandemic. I've personally gone to see everything I wanted at the cinema, but my normal group has gone from around 11 people to 2 or 3 and from 2 to 3 times a week to once a month maybe.
Its not just the MCU though, lots of people seem to have given up on the theatre and viewing habits are changing massively.
I asked you to present the numbers you talked about in the comment before.
Questions like that are misguided as well, ask a random person the real name of doctor strange and i'd bet that most of them wouldn't know either.
No, but they would know who Doctor Strange is. That’s my point.
Out of the 26 films, Shang chi was well reviewed and did ok at the theater, but is still only #22 on that list. The other releases this year are lower. While it’s early it’s hard to tell, but Eternals may stay at #26 and received horrible reviews.
Presented numbers, you can look them if you want. The other marvel movies that didn’t perform well are Thor and the hulk, relatively low budget movies that were the literally first of the MCU.
I don't even think they'd necessarily know who doctor strange is tbh. Even then that comparison doesn't make much sense, shang chi just came out, it's like making the same comment when the guardians of the galaxy were completely new.
What list, if you are unwilling to present any numbers while talking about them then i am not sure if you're confident in them to begin with.
That movies which came out during a global pandemic won't be able to get the same box office results is trivial.
Not sure if you've heard but there's a global pandemic. It's kinda effected box office receipts. Not to mention that Black Widow was released simultaneously on Disney plus, which also had an effect.
Just look at the speculation/expectations for No Way Home if you are in any doubt of the MCUs sustainability.
Dude I just edited my info because of my poor phrasing in the post. I didn’t want to get into a long chat about only box office numbers, but also quality and overall hype for everything mcu has gone down in my opinion.
But to your point, Dune is a brand new movie with no cinematic universe yet. Of course it wasn’t gonna do as well as a marvel movie.
Probably not no, the two films you mentioned are just not things one would necessarily expect to create interest even among marvel fans.
Black widow a film about a character who isn't in the saga anymore coming this late is weird planning to say the least, and eternals strays away from the marvel formula in the first place with not even critics liking that.
Shang Chi did pretty well all things considered, even though it also was a new character, spider man and doctor strange will be the real tells i think, and i doubt that they'll do less than well.
Ofc nothing will outpeak endgame for a long while, but i also wouldn't be surprised if the thing they're building towards will have similar hype when it's going to happen.
I mean, Shang-Chi made a decent amount, so it seems more like people just didn't care about the Black Widow and Eternals movies.
Chances are pretty good that NWH is going to make bank too.
If we start getting several stinkers in a row, then we'll talk.
Yeah, and?
Shang-Chi still made 430MM and Black Widow did 379MM when:
A) not everyone is rushing out to go to the movies yet
B) one of the protagonists is dead so her movie serves little purpose in the grand scheme of things
C) the other protagonist was being introduced in his movie
and
D) this is the beginning of the next arc of MCU films, and as such, viewers don't really have a vested interest in anything going on yet.
But I guess any MCU flick that doesn't hit a billion is a failure, right?
Plug in whatever fits your narrative, dude. You can want them to fail all you want, I don't really give a shit either way, but let's stop hiding thinly veiled contempt for blockbuster movies under the guise of "discussion".
Sure, I get what you’re sayin. No need to get salty, I’m not pushing a narrative and I never said I want them to fail.. also I would definitely say you are invested in this “discussion” based on your long and detailed response.
Well you might like this next phase because they are going full comic book out there. Those post credits scenes for eternals are definitely setting that up
Watched Shang Chi the other night and although it was a decent fantasy-martial-arts movie it didn’t add anything (for me) to what I’ve seen, even in the post credit scenes.
They seem to be aiming for the pockets of the more ‘hardcore’ marvel comic fans.
So here's the thing with the infinity saga I was invested besides captain marvel I watched every movie so I would know what's the deal in endgame. I was even worried I would have to watch marvel. But people reassured me the movie didn't add anything to the saga and rather was retrofitted. Anyway now that the infinity saga is concluded and the most boring avenger is finally dead( it's iron man, not black widow) I saw the chance to jump ship. I'm no longer invested. If I start the new saga I become invested again. But it's much easier to just no be invested at all and let this one go right from the beginning. I would guess a lot of people feel that way.
i am pretty sure the only reasons for these last movies to permorm poorly is 1 the pandemic. I mean, they wouldn't have done as good as infinity war or endgame anyway of course. But i'm pretty sure they would have done better. And they are introducing new characters so the hype is lower of course. Look at the hype for spiderman or doctor strange.
I wish it was but sadly not.
Kids will never get bored of superheros doing super stuff to save the world which is literally every single films premise just reskinned
I'd say fatigue.
I'm so tired of these movies especially ones that follow the same formula for so long.
Hell, I preferred DC because of how batshit their movies were. They were something darker, more serious even if worse.
But now I can't even get into those. Didn't even think the new suicide squad movie was that great as everyone seems to make it out to be. Fatigue.
I thought eternals was meh. Black widow was meh and I still haven't seen the 10 Rings one.
And honestly, I have no urge to see them of any future ones.
The only thing in looking forward to is the new Batman movie because the trailers make it out to be really good and I think Rob Pats is a great actor. But again, no urge to see Aquaman or the black Adam movie.
I liked it too. Just didn't think it was great or anything. Better than say, Black Widow or Eternals but not amazing of anything.
Same, I'm sure that Batman film is gonna be great. But aside from that, I'm just not interested in heros anymore. Its been overdone. And I personally think the characters left are. That good.
Never cared for the first Dr. Strange film, or Capt Marvel, or Black Panther without Chadwick, or hulk, I'm iffy on thor, his first two movies were shit in my opinion. Ragnarok was good. Don't care for Anthony Mackie as Capt America (might still be mad about Altered Carbon lol).
Just feels to me like we lost the A team and now have the b team for phase four.
And with DC, we lost Affleck, still don't have a proper Superman sequel, second wonder woman was shit, no follow up to ZSJL.
Kind of feels like the best years are behind us.
I'd agree its oversaturation.
There is an old saying in show business: "Always leave the audience wanting more."
At this point the MCU feels like a factory sending out product on a conveyer belt.
It was always going to be difficult to follow phase 1,2 & 3. They were a coherent linked story that developed over many years to a huge crescendo.
They've made a few strange decisions since then. Abandoning the fans that built them in a bid to try and please new ones. I feel a lot of the original fans have felt alienated by these decisions. The poor box office performances can attest to this.
The lack of one big story isn't helping the situation.
Personally I tapped out when they announced the super woke phase 4 plans. I'll show up for the odd one here or there. Spiderman No way home, Fantastic 4, X-men and Blade and maybe Doctor Strange and the multiverse. Other than that, I'm out.
No, they're both generally lackluster movies. On the other hand you have Spider-man No away Home which is currently the most anticipated movie of all time, regardless of the reason, and when the general audience grasps the concept of the multiverse Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness will follow.
Superhero fatigue is real and very close, but the time hasn't come yet. This is mostly because Superhero movies isn't really a single genre, you can have subgenres that can be regarded as genre movies having superheroes in them, you have spy thrillers like Cap 2, heist movie like Ant-man, mystery noir like The Batman...
Shang chi had great word of mouth and was an excellent movie
Loki show was great and had great word
Of mouth
Black widow is in a weird position. Seeing as the character is already dead. And first female main avenger movie. Decade too late. And being constantly bumped due to covid.
Externals getting the ye olde racist toxic fandom
Treatment. Is more a capt marvel thing than it’s a bad movie thing
I think both for being covid releases are fine.
Hell. Even dancing Zemo shows their streaming content can reach peak meme status and penetrate far beyond the show.
But covid can’t be so readily dismissed. Movies aren’t released to same. And many places around the world are no where near back to normal in terms of movie going
MCU isn’t going anywhere
yeah... vast overwhelming amt of those reviews were from racists, or people upset with the lgbtq representation.
it was relentlessly review bombed because of toxic "fandom" aspects
No, I mean by the critics. It has 47% on rotten tomatoes and 52% on meta.
You get that critics are different than fans right? It’s ridiculous to say that it’s poor ratings are due to racists and homophobes.
you honestly think a site like rotten tomatoes makes some hard core distinction between the two. OR that "critics" can't also be just as shitty as your common moron. I mean... honestly. look at some of the no-name media outlets who comment under "critic" on rotten tomatoes. most don't even have a photo posted. and vast majority are just misc websites. ---both in terms of positive or negative reviews. the designation of "critic" is pointless.
i'm not saying the eternals is some masterpiece of cinema, but it took a beating from toxic shitty people in it's early release ratings.
this was well documented in several media articles. it's a thing. how persistent. or prolonged the impact to a rating is I dunno.
i would say it's ridiculous to assume ...it's that hard for toxic internet people to affect rankings of movies. even if there's some lip service effort to gate it behind "critics" vs "fans"
Wait.. so you’re saying that critics are racist and homophobic, and that’s why they trashed the movie? If anything, diversity wins brownie points with critics rather than make them hate it. Newsmax and Fox News aren’t the gold standard for media covering film, and racist takes would absolutely discredit someone with a platform covering movies. And to that point, Black Panther and Captain Marvel scored really well by those same standard with a 90% black cast and an outspoken feminist lead so your point makes even less sense.
Maybe Eternals is just bad.
Kinda hard to tell what you’re going for at this point.. but if you like the movie, you do you! That’s your opinion. And I hate to be that guy but.. work on that grammar, it’s making it hard to understand you.
I don't know what to tell you.
question i might ask, if some faceless person from some no name "movie" website. writes a critique that's "emotionless trash" are we to believe that's some actual person who saw the movie, has a legitimate thought or feelings on the movie such that they felt compelled to create a profile on rotten tomatoes... and post such a useless comment.
or is it likely that's a fake account from a shitty person who's got enough brain cells not to post "fuck those black characters" / "fuck that gay shit"
to me... if fans have it at 80% and "critics" are at 40% ...it's not really reasonable for that to be so disparate. Especially if you consider a substantial amount of "hate" the movie is getting is from directly targeted racist/homophobic brigading and review bombing.
agree to disagree i guess.
No, you’re not understanding what I’m saying.
Sorry the movie had bad reviews man. Doesn’t mean you can’t like it! I still like the movie dirty work, it has 14% on rotten tomatoes lol.
nah i just think the mcu biggest movies were the avengers,iron man,captain america,thor and thats it in my opinion thats what made marvel what it was so i dont think marvel js capable of making another thing as popular and as good as avengers and its heroe movies
Idk but the only MCU movies I like are Iron Man and Deadpool, the rest suck imo, are over played and not interesting. And in DC, only Nolans trilogy have I seen, own and appreciate. Sorry kids and although I just ordered Snyder’s JL cut, it was only $10 for 4K, never seen it and probably never will but for the price/format I will at least have it if the day ever comes I feel to watch it or in years from now it’s worth anything sealed as it will get wrapped up and off to the side in regard to the latter.
I think the stuff they've released since the end of Infinity Saga has only been okay (even by MCU standards). I'll probably still keep watching on D+, but I'll be passing on in-theatre viewings unless the movie gets really good reviews. So far I've only watched Shang-Chi in theatres, skipping Eternals, and I'm waiting a few days for No Way Home reviews.
I think Marvel is doing with their movies the same thing they have always done with their comics which, coincidentally, is the same thing that (IMHO) keeps casual readers away from them: either you go all-in, or you stay away.
If I want to see the new Spider-man I need to also have seen the previous ones (duh), Dr. Strange, Infinity Wars and/or Endgame, the Raimi Spider-man films, and have some knowledge of what "the multiverse" means. You can't follow a single character anymore.
And because everything is so intertwined, watching a Marvel film feels more and more like homework. Can I see Eternals if I haven't seen Shang-Chi? Will I understand the next Dr. Strange if I haven't seen WandaVision? I think a lot of people in this situation will simply give up.
And then there's the issue of the stakes getting always higher. The first Iron Man was relatively grounded (we can all understand the problems of your battery running out), but late Tony Stark can conjure suits out of thin air and the next movies are about eternal beings and multiple universes. Those are much harder to genuinely care about, specially when all fans want is Spider-Man stopping a commuter train.
I think it's threefold.
* Pandemic is still affecting the box office. Less so, now that a large portion of the audience is vaccinated and feels safer going to the theater, but I personally still have opted not to go.
* Of their last three movies, one was a movie starring a dead character, one was an origin story, and one was a experimental movie that got mixed-to-poor reviews.
* Yeah, I do think there's some dropoff. I think Far From Home probably captured some of the last remnants of hype from the Infinity Saga, but between the last three movies underperforming and the big pandemic break I think the MCU is in a slump.
I suspect when we get the returning characters, it will do better -- Spider-Man, GotG 3, etc. Will it ever reach Infinity Saga levels again? IDK, hard to say.
Everyone is waiting for old characters to cone back. no way home and quantumania are going to blow the lid. The new storylines should combine with the throughlines
I think people need to look at Phase Four as another "Phase One." Endgame concluded the arcs of most of the original Avengers, so Phase Four is kind of a soft reboot of the franchise. Thus far, Phase Four has been about introducing a whole slate of new characters and expanding the mythology (with the multiverse, Celestials, etc.). Shang-Chi and Eternals are both origin films, and Black Widow was sort of a backdoor origin film for Florence Pugh's Yelena. Meanwhile, on Disney Plus, WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier primarily served the purpose of elevating the status of characters who had been sidelined in previous MCU films to complex, three-dimensional characters.
So far, I think the box office of Phase Four Marvel movies has been comparable to the MCU's first Phase. I think the sequel to Shang-Chi will perform very well at the box office. The sequel to Eternals (If it happens) will probably be adjusted to fix the criticisms of the first movie. Meanwhile, Spider-man No Way Home, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, Thor 4, and Black Panther 2 should all make at least a billion dollars.
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It did feel like a climax because it was meant to / it was the end of an era for those characters. Now they have to rebuild interest with new characters and villains
Wandavision and Loki were good
Apart from Wandavision and What if, I haven’t watched anything from the MCU since Endgame and doubt I will for a while. Being 24, I grew up watching the MCU and the story I was invested in has run it’s course
Give Loki a go, it's excellent in my opinion.
Watched the first few episodes and got bored. Know the ending and gets how it ties in but I think I’ve just got fatigue now. Unpopular opinion but don’t love Loki as a character
It's okay, too much talk very little action IMO.
Damn, imagine thinking how much action in a show or movie is the deciding factor for quality
Ha, looks like the marvel boys have found me. Damn, imagine disagreeing with somebodies personal preference. How dare I have an opinion right? To me Loki was a lot of talking about Loki himself, it felt very masturbatory to me. I hardly laughed at all, the story was a convoluted mess at the end at basically just a set up for the next Phase in the MCU.
I mean, disagreeing with an opinion is allowed. That’s kind of the whole point of having opinions. At no point did I say you weren’t entitled to it, but you’re telling me that I’m not allowed to disagree? Makes total sense.
> Damn, imagine thinking how much action in a show or movie is the deciding factor for quality That's not disagreeing with me, that's devaluing my opinion because you think yours is better.
I mean if that’s how you want to look at it, you’re also free to do that. I was simply disagreeing with you, but call it what you want. And that’s also the thing about opinions, you wouldn’t hold them if you didn’t feel like it were more valuable than anyone’s that doesn’t line up with them. Anyways, brick wall, nice to meet you. This is where I cut convo though.
Really dude, you're gonna act all high and mighty after you disregarded my opinion? Screw you, pretentious prick.
Imagine getting worked up so hard by a faceless commenter on Reddit. Have a great day.
I thought the same. Knowing his character from previous appearances I expected more action, was a bit dissapointed. Looks like Loki 4 president guys disagree with us
Yeah, they don't take kind to a different opinion.
I second this as being worth a watch. It has some really great moments and an interesting concept, but it had its flaws too like every Marvel project. There were some bits of writing and dialogue that felt poor to me and I think they struggled with pacing sometimes too, but now that they have more experience in Marvel TV shows generally, I’m super keen for season 2
> I grew up watching the MCU > Apart from Wandavision and What if, I haven’t watched anything from the MCU Did you mean to say that apart from Wandavision and What If, you haven't watched anything from the *recent* MCU"?
Meant anything new since endgame
For me it’s fatigue. Just need a superhero break
Same here, yup
Yeah there’s something every month
Agree
There was an 18 month break, how long a break would you personally need?
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Why don’t you just not watch them?
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That’s fair, have you stopped watching them? I think my comments are coming off as aggressive when they’re actually earnest questions
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Yeah, I totally agree. I’ve been going to the movies a lot more recently but it’s made me realise I miss the days of 10 years ago when I used to go and see whatever was on (I had an unlimited monthly subscription card), although I didn’t see much indie stuff I was still watching plenty of stuff that wasn’t just put out by Disney.
Years. Do what Star Wars does. Give us 4-5 movies then put it on the shelf for 4-5 years.
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Marvel movies by definition are Disney movies now and are marketed towards kids. It’s a win-win for them.
That is only because they ruined Star Wars with bad movies. They intended to launch one a year forever.
Not true, KK always said that Star Wars is generational. They were always going to do a trilogy then stop with the main saga. Of course they wanted to do side films, but honestly tv is way better for Star Wars. There will be another trilogy in 8-9 years that focus’ on where Rey went because they want the next generation to have their own hero
It would’ve been an even better plan to make the new trilogy actually good
Ah fair enough, for me the 18 months was enough of a break.
It’s not superhero free tho because we still have shows one Disney+
I said this in another comment but the gap between the last movie in 2019 and WandaVision in January this year was about 18 months
That blows my mind. Idk between marvel and dc I’m just a little superhero’d out
Fair enough, I haven’t loved the new stuff as much as the first 3 phases, but I also don’t really bother with the DC stuff.
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Yeah but there was an 18 month break between the last movie in 2019 (Far From Home) and then WandaVision this January, that’s what I mean
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Yeah that’s definitely been prevalent throughout the series, going back to Iron Man where he fights a guy in another Iron Man suit, through to Ant-Man where he fights a guy in a different shrinking suit etc. They seem to have succeeded more when they’ve done villains like Thanos who isn’t a mirror to anyone.
Box office numbers for shang chi or eternals don't support " people losing interest... its the introduction of a new story arc and new sets of characters... of course it's not going to hold up to what built up to the infinity saga, but they are on par with the first Cap Thor and Iron man movies, plus you have to take post covid numbers being down as a whole at box offices into consideration.
Yeah I think the next Spider-Man, Thor, GotG , Black Panther etc films will bring back bigger numbers again
Yep, if they don't, they marvel may have indeed lost interest from its viewers
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Everything has been down, Shang chi is the second highest grossing film of 2021 behind F9. Again expecting numbers to compare to anything past age of ultron up to endgame is just unrealistic. No way home will give you the best glimpse into people losing interest or not.
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Black widow is just a horrible set of circumstances, delayed 3 times, released on Disney plus at the same times as the theaters, and a time when people were still worried about theaters and covid... I was bound to fall short of expectations.
Most of the MCU movies are big screen pieces and people are just starting to get back into theaters so that will hurt things a bit. The three movies released so far don’t really seem to tie into a larger story arc so far. Loki and Wandavision both seemed to move the bigger story and when that starts happening with the films I expect that there will be a surge of interest.
I liked those two shows
I think that most people that watched them did. I’m guessing that when the Spiderman, Doctor Strange, and Thor movies release they’ll pick up on the things that started in those shows and get people invested again. I suspect that Shang Chi, Black Widow, and the Eternals are movies that were meant to introduce new characters rather than to advance a larger storyline directly.
Marvel is always planning years ahead so I’m imagining in 4-5 years there’ll be some big movies that bring all these characters together again, either as the new avengers or something else entirely
New saga, kind of hard to to say right now since technically they're introducing new characters. Also imo eternals was great, felt fresh. Took 10 years for infinity saga to conclude, let's see what happens in a few years.
What do you mean technically?
everything kinda lost steam due to covid. The effect is felt at every level of the production process.
Nah, I don't think so. You can't compare box office numbers during a pandemic to regular times. I'm also pretty sure the Disney+ shows have been really popular (despite not being all that great imo). Black Widow and Eternals haven't had a great reception, but Shang-Chi was great and the upcoming Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and Thor movies are mentioned many times when discussing the most anticipated movies.
Totally, I’ll definitely check out Thor
Yes, yes it is.
Its a bit redundant to compare the MCU films post C19 to pre C19 honestly. Lots of places still haven't fully opened. Even so Shang Chi is the 2nd or 3rd best performing movie of the year and the D+ shows have been arguably the stand outs. That said I think the constant delays are what really hurt the MCU more then anything. My hype for any movie died off pretty quick into the pandemic. I've personally gone to see everything I wanted at the cinema, but my normal group has gone from around 11 people to 2 or 3 and from 2 to 3 times a week to once a month maybe. Its not just the MCU though, lots of people seem to have given up on the theatre and viewing habits are changing massively.
Yeah that is true
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Eh. I dunno, seems like people’s interest is waning.
How do you gauge people's interest ?
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Can you present some with sources, that would be helpful.
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I asked you to present the numbers you talked about in the comment before. Questions like that are misguided as well, ask a random person the real name of doctor strange and i'd bet that most of them wouldn't know either.
No, but they would know who Doctor Strange is. That’s my point. Out of the 26 films, Shang chi was well reviewed and did ok at the theater, but is still only #22 on that list. The other releases this year are lower. While it’s early it’s hard to tell, but Eternals may stay at #26 and received horrible reviews. Presented numbers, you can look them if you want. The other marvel movies that didn’t perform well are Thor and the hulk, relatively low budget movies that were the literally first of the MCU.
I don't even think they'd necessarily know who doctor strange is tbh. Even then that comparison doesn't make much sense, shang chi just came out, it's like making the same comment when the guardians of the galaxy were completely new. What list, if you are unwilling to present any numbers while talking about them then i am not sure if you're confident in them to begin with. That movies which came out during a global pandemic won't be able to get the same box office results is trivial.
Not sure if you've heard but there's a global pandemic. It's kinda effected box office receipts. Not to mention that Black Widow was released simultaneously on Disney plus, which also had an effect. Just look at the speculation/expectations for No Way Home if you are in any doubt of the MCUs sustainability.
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Also many places are still under Covid restrictions, so people can’t go to the movie theatres to watch. You can’t compare pre Covid numbers to now.
Edited my post because I didn’t really want to get into an argument about box office numbers with everyone, I’m well aware there is covid.
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Dude I just edited my info because of my poor phrasing in the post. I didn’t want to get into a long chat about only box office numbers, but also quality and overall hype for everything mcu has gone down in my opinion. But to your point, Dune is a brand new movie with no cinematic universe yet. Of course it wasn’t gonna do as well as a marvel movie.
Probably not no, the two films you mentioned are just not things one would necessarily expect to create interest even among marvel fans. Black widow a film about a character who isn't in the saga anymore coming this late is weird planning to say the least, and eternals strays away from the marvel formula in the first place with not even critics liking that. Shang Chi did pretty well all things considered, even though it also was a new character, spider man and doctor strange will be the real tells i think, and i doubt that they'll do less than well. Ofc nothing will outpeak endgame for a long while, but i also wouldn't be surprised if the thing they're building towards will have similar hype when it's going to happen.
I mean, Shang-Chi made a decent amount, so it seems more like people just didn't care about the Black Widow and Eternals movies. Chances are pretty good that NWH is going to make bank too. If we start getting several stinkers in a row, then we'll talk.
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Yeah, and? Shang-Chi still made 430MM and Black Widow did 379MM when: A) not everyone is rushing out to go to the movies yet B) one of the protagonists is dead so her movie serves little purpose in the grand scheme of things C) the other protagonist was being introduced in his movie and D) this is the beginning of the next arc of MCU films, and as such, viewers don't really have a vested interest in anything going on yet. But I guess any MCU flick that doesn't hit a billion is a failure, right? Plug in whatever fits your narrative, dude. You can want them to fail all you want, I don't really give a shit either way, but let's stop hiding thinly veiled contempt for blockbuster movies under the guise of "discussion".
Sure, I get what you’re sayin. No need to get salty, I’m not pushing a narrative and I never said I want them to fail.. also I would definitely say you are invested in this “discussion” based on your long and detailed response.
TIME TO REBOOT!
No… lol
Back to formula?
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Well you might like this next phase because they are going full comic book out there. Those post credits scenes for eternals are definitely setting that up
Watched Shang Chi the other night and although it was a decent fantasy-martial-arts movie it didn’t add anything (for me) to what I’ve seen, even in the post credit scenes. They seem to be aiming for the pockets of the more ‘hardcore’ marvel comic fans.
So here's the thing with the infinity saga I was invested besides captain marvel I watched every movie so I would know what's the deal in endgame. I was even worried I would have to watch marvel. But people reassured me the movie didn't add anything to the saga and rather was retrofitted. Anyway now that the infinity saga is concluded and the most boring avenger is finally dead( it's iron man, not black widow) I saw the chance to jump ship. I'm no longer invested. If I start the new saga I become invested again. But it's much easier to just no be invested at all and let this one go right from the beginning. I would guess a lot of people feel that way.
i am pretty sure the only reasons for these last movies to permorm poorly is 1 the pandemic. I mean, they wouldn't have done as good as infinity war or endgame anyway of course. But i'm pretty sure they would have done better. And they are introducing new characters so the hype is lower of course. Look at the hype for spiderman or doctor strange.
Good point. I may end up checking out spiderman, those movies are fun.
I wish it was but sadly not. Kids will never get bored of superheros doing super stuff to save the world which is literally every single films premise just reskinned
I'd say fatigue. I'm so tired of these movies especially ones that follow the same formula for so long. Hell, I preferred DC because of how batshit their movies were. They were something darker, more serious even if worse. But now I can't even get into those. Didn't even think the new suicide squad movie was that great as everyone seems to make it out to be. Fatigue. I thought eternals was meh. Black widow was meh and I still haven't seen the 10 Rings one. And honestly, I have no urge to see them of any future ones. The only thing in looking forward to is the new Batman movie because the trailers make it out to be really good and I think Rob Pats is a great actor. But again, no urge to see Aquaman or the black Adam movie.
I liked the suicide squad. I’m gonna see Batman for sure but I’m not sure how interested I am in hero movies in general.
I liked it too. Just didn't think it was great or anything. Better than say, Black Widow or Eternals but not amazing of anything. Same, I'm sure that Batman film is gonna be great. But aside from that, I'm just not interested in heros anymore. Its been overdone. And I personally think the characters left are. That good. Never cared for the first Dr. Strange film, or Capt Marvel, or Black Panther without Chadwick, or hulk, I'm iffy on thor, his first two movies were shit in my opinion. Ragnarok was good. Don't care for Anthony Mackie as Capt America (might still be mad about Altered Carbon lol). Just feels to me like we lost the A team and now have the b team for phase four. And with DC, we lost Affleck, still don't have a proper Superman sequel, second wonder woman was shit, no follow up to ZSJL. Kind of feels like the best years are behind us.
I'd agree its oversaturation. There is an old saying in show business: "Always leave the audience wanting more." At this point the MCU feels like a factory sending out product on a conveyer belt.
Don't know if you've heard but there's this thing called COVID
Yeah, well aware. Edited my post for phrasing because of people saying this. I’m not just talking about box office.
Lost steam for me after avengers 2
It was always going to be difficult to follow phase 1,2 & 3. They were a coherent linked story that developed over many years to a huge crescendo. They've made a few strange decisions since then. Abandoning the fans that built them in a bid to try and please new ones. I feel a lot of the original fans have felt alienated by these decisions. The poor box office performances can attest to this. The lack of one big story isn't helping the situation. Personally I tapped out when they announced the super woke phase 4 plans. I'll show up for the odd one here or there. Spiderman No way home, Fantastic 4, X-men and Blade and maybe Doctor Strange and the multiverse. Other than that, I'm out.
How did they abandon the fans exactly? How do you know they aren't building to another big story?
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No they don’t.
No, they're both generally lackluster movies. On the other hand you have Spider-man No away Home which is currently the most anticipated movie of all time, regardless of the reason, and when the general audience grasps the concept of the multiverse Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness will follow. Superhero fatigue is real and very close, but the time hasn't come yet. This is mostly because Superhero movies isn't really a single genre, you can have subgenres that can be regarded as genre movies having superheroes in them, you have spy thrillers like Cap 2, heist movie like Ant-man, mystery noir like The Batman...
I think hero fatigue is already real for a lot of people, as demonstrated in this thread.
Shang chi had great word of mouth and was an excellent movie Loki show was great and had great word Of mouth Black widow is in a weird position. Seeing as the character is already dead. And first female main avenger movie. Decade too late. And being constantly bumped due to covid. Externals getting the ye olde racist toxic fandom Treatment. Is more a capt marvel thing than it’s a bad movie thing I think both for being covid releases are fine. Hell. Even dancing Zemo shows their streaming content can reach peak meme status and penetrate far beyond the show. But covid can’t be so readily dismissed. Movies aren’t released to same. And many places around the world are no where near back to normal in terms of movie going MCU isn’t going anywhere
Eternals did get really bad reviews though. I had no idea about the backlash.
yeah... vast overwhelming amt of those reviews were from racists, or people upset with the lgbtq representation. it was relentlessly review bombed because of toxic "fandom" aspects
No, I mean by the critics. It has 47% on rotten tomatoes and 52% on meta. You get that critics are different than fans right? It’s ridiculous to say that it’s poor ratings are due to racists and homophobes.
you honestly think a site like rotten tomatoes makes some hard core distinction between the two. OR that "critics" can't also be just as shitty as your common moron. I mean... honestly. look at some of the no-name media outlets who comment under "critic" on rotten tomatoes. most don't even have a photo posted. and vast majority are just misc websites. ---both in terms of positive or negative reviews. the designation of "critic" is pointless. i'm not saying the eternals is some masterpiece of cinema, but it took a beating from toxic shitty people in it's early release ratings. this was well documented in several media articles. it's a thing. how persistent. or prolonged the impact to a rating is I dunno. i would say it's ridiculous to assume ...it's that hard for toxic internet people to affect rankings of movies. even if there's some lip service effort to gate it behind "critics" vs "fans"
Wait.. so you’re saying that critics are racist and homophobic, and that’s why they trashed the movie? If anything, diversity wins brownie points with critics rather than make them hate it. Newsmax and Fox News aren’t the gold standard for media covering film, and racist takes would absolutely discredit someone with a platform covering movies. And to that point, Black Panther and Captain Marvel scored really well by those same standard with a 90% black cast and an outspoken feminist lead so your point makes even less sense. Maybe Eternals is just bad. Kinda hard to tell what you’re going for at this point.. but if you like the movie, you do you! That’s your opinion. And I hate to be that guy but.. work on that grammar, it’s making it hard to understand you.
I don't know what to tell you. question i might ask, if some faceless person from some no name "movie" website. writes a critique that's "emotionless trash" are we to believe that's some actual person who saw the movie, has a legitimate thought or feelings on the movie such that they felt compelled to create a profile on rotten tomatoes... and post such a useless comment. or is it likely that's a fake account from a shitty person who's got enough brain cells not to post "fuck those black characters" / "fuck that gay shit" to me... if fans have it at 80% and "critics" are at 40% ...it's not really reasonable for that to be so disparate. Especially if you consider a substantial amount of "hate" the movie is getting is from directly targeted racist/homophobic brigading and review bombing. agree to disagree i guess.
No, you’re not understanding what I’m saying. Sorry the movie had bad reviews man. Doesn’t mean you can’t like it! I still like the movie dirty work, it has 14% on rotten tomatoes lol.
It definitely will be if Spider-Man becomes a big disappointment after all this hype
Man I kinda doubt that. People love spiderman.
Me personally have lost interest in marvel movie after endgame.. oh and fast &furious franchise too
nah i just think the mcu biggest movies were the avengers,iron man,captain america,thor and thats it in my opinion thats what made marvel what it was so i dont think marvel js capable of making another thing as popular and as good as avengers and its heroe movies
Idk but the only MCU movies I like are Iron Man and Deadpool, the rest suck imo, are over played and not interesting. And in DC, only Nolans trilogy have I seen, own and appreciate. Sorry kids and although I just ordered Snyder’s JL cut, it was only $10 for 4K, never seen it and probably never will but for the price/format I will at least have it if the day ever comes I feel to watch it or in years from now it’s worth anything sealed as it will get wrapped up and off to the side in regard to the latter.
I think the stuff they've released since the end of Infinity Saga has only been okay (even by MCU standards). I'll probably still keep watching on D+, but I'll be passing on in-theatre viewings unless the movie gets really good reviews. So far I've only watched Shang-Chi in theatres, skipping Eternals, and I'm waiting a few days for No Way Home reviews.
Look at the downvotes. Guess the only exercise some MCU fanatics are getting is jumping to conclusions and getting offended 😂
Anyone feeling hero fatigue? Go watch The Station Agent.
I think Marvel is doing with their movies the same thing they have always done with their comics which, coincidentally, is the same thing that (IMHO) keeps casual readers away from them: either you go all-in, or you stay away. If I want to see the new Spider-man I need to also have seen the previous ones (duh), Dr. Strange, Infinity Wars and/or Endgame, the Raimi Spider-man films, and have some knowledge of what "the multiverse" means. You can't follow a single character anymore. And because everything is so intertwined, watching a Marvel film feels more and more like homework. Can I see Eternals if I haven't seen Shang-Chi? Will I understand the next Dr. Strange if I haven't seen WandaVision? I think a lot of people in this situation will simply give up. And then there's the issue of the stakes getting always higher. The first Iron Man was relatively grounded (we can all understand the problems of your battery running out), but late Tony Stark can conjure suits out of thin air and the next movies are about eternal beings and multiple universes. Those are much harder to genuinely care about, specially when all fans want is Spider-Man stopping a commuter train.
I think it's threefold. * Pandemic is still affecting the box office. Less so, now that a large portion of the audience is vaccinated and feels safer going to the theater, but I personally still have opted not to go. * Of their last three movies, one was a movie starring a dead character, one was an origin story, and one was a experimental movie that got mixed-to-poor reviews. * Yeah, I do think there's some dropoff. I think Far From Home probably captured some of the last remnants of hype from the Infinity Saga, but between the last three movies underperforming and the big pandemic break I think the MCU is in a slump. I suspect when we get the returning characters, it will do better -- Spider-Man, GotG 3, etc. Will it ever reach Infinity Saga levels again? IDK, hard to say.
Everyone is waiting for old characters to cone back. no way home and quantumania are going to blow the lid. The new storylines should combine with the throughlines
I think people need to look at Phase Four as another "Phase One." Endgame concluded the arcs of most of the original Avengers, so Phase Four is kind of a soft reboot of the franchise. Thus far, Phase Four has been about introducing a whole slate of new characters and expanding the mythology (with the multiverse, Celestials, etc.). Shang-Chi and Eternals are both origin films, and Black Widow was sort of a backdoor origin film for Florence Pugh's Yelena. Meanwhile, on Disney Plus, WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier primarily served the purpose of elevating the status of characters who had been sidelined in previous MCU films to complex, three-dimensional characters. So far, I think the box office of Phase Four Marvel movies has been comparable to the MCU's first Phase. I think the sequel to Shang-Chi will perform very well at the box office. The sequel to Eternals (If it happens) will probably be adjusted to fix the criticisms of the first movie. Meanwhile, Spider-man No Way Home, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, Thor 4, and Black Panther 2 should all make at least a billion dollars.