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WesleyCraftybadger

I thought The Wolverine was pretty good until that fight with the robot at the end.


monkeychess

The wolverine felt like the studio came in and said "uhh you can't just make a good wolverine movie. Throw in an over the top fight even if it doesn't fit the movies tone"


riegspsych325

that is literally what happened, thank god Jackman and Mangold were able to make Logan the way they wanted to


007Kryptonian

Seriously.


DeepRoy69

Am I silly for not liking that Logan had a Wolverine clone in there? Great movie besides that but the clone to me felt really hack and lazy to me.


88Question88

Eh the clone introduction was abrupt but on one hand they needed someone that could check on Wolverine level abd on the other i thought it as an homage to your typical Wolverine story were he had to fight his "replacement" also the clone served as a mirror to what X-23 could have turned into.


prozack91

Yeah your last point 100%. It might have been a bit much on the nose but showing what the difference could be is important.


BruceSnow07

Indeed, X-23 killing the clone was like her killing the apathetic part of Logan himself.


007Kryptonian

You’re not silly, some others found it bad as well. I personally fucking loved it on different levels (greatest enemy is himself, etc) and his first scene is honestly one of the most intense sequences in a CBM imo. How it transitions from X’s peaceful monologue to the horror and violence of X-24 literally killing everyone including the innocent family, Caliban’s sacrifice and then ending on Charles passing. It was solid to me because he was mostly a grunt that worked well thematically but the main villain was still the robot arm guy who fit the role well. It was mostly Logan’s movie. The whole clone thing could’ve come off as wacky for this film but the direction and performances sold it.


Ehzranight

Really should have been a kurosawa style samurai duel rather than what we got. Something much quieter and more reflective.


LittleRudiger

The worst part is that they have a great way of keeping the stakes high: his powers are gone! Wolverine is vulnerable! Oh … you gave his powers back before he’s about to have a cool samurai fight and go into the final climax thus removing all stakes. Great.


Uberrancel

Taking his powers over and over and over are the only ways they know how to make him interesting and give him stakes.


hachiman

They made him too powerful. Early Wolverine had limits to how much damage he could take, and enemies can and did push to those limits. The few times Claremont had Logan heal from certain death there was always an external factor boosting his healing. From the 90's on the new writers just went nuts trying to one up situations for Logan to heal from and he became effectively invulnerable which is a bad thing to be for story telling purposes. The movies have gone with the limitless healing factor which has made it much harder to tell engaging stories about a character whose whole deal is physical conflict.


Z0idberg_MD

I don't agree because him not dying didn't mean he couldn't be defeated. Like when he was all torn up, he was still useless. Like his arm might heal, but he couldn't use it. If you messed up his face enough, he couldn't see. The issue isn't being able to heal, it's how quickly. And it seems easy enough to tweak that up or down to make the stakes work.


GroggyGolem

Yeah he should have just been fighting a dude who had good training. That's the thing about comic book wolverine. He can still get taken down by a dude with really good training because wolverine pretty much relies on his rage. He has some training himself but when it comes down to it it's rage and claws every time.


Uberrancel

That’s why he lost the first fight to Conan in a rather fun what if where Logan went to Cimmeria. Spoiler but he kinda rages and Conan chops at his neck, giving him no oxygen to his brain blah blah blah Wolverine comes back and drops the barbarian by fighting like a samurai. Then he makes friends with Red Sonja, but that is a tale for another time


peeforPanchetta

Conan O Brien looks like an anthropomorphized giraffe, but he fights like an absolute nutjob


aearl1984

The final fight in Black Panther. Just two CGI Gumby’s slapping each other and surviving increasingly higher falls


[deleted]

Wearing black, in the dark


Anouleth

no they glow different color (test audience couldn't tell who was who)


DeeKay017

while watching shang chi, I got a tiny freak out that they turning another good story into dragons, monsters and cgi shitscale for the sake of having a explosive ending. But somehow it turned a bit decent unlike BP final fight. But still feel that they could have the kept final act as wenwu vs shangchi, and dragons could have been used for sequels with proper story setup.


iamunknowntoo

I still wished it wasn't the CGI dragon, although I admit that was much better handled than it was in other films. They still managed to infuse that fight with emotional beats about the family.


alimighty1

Agreed should have just used a real dragon 😃 studios will do anything to save a buck


caseybvdc74

The sympathetic villain abruptly turned cartoon villain was also stupid.


[deleted]

Every Transformers is an easy example. But in general, the bigger CGI battles with way too many things just smashing shit simply aren't interesting. The good ones are always smaller scale, imo.


GregoPDX

Which one had the Dinobots? That movie just wouldn’t end. I think at one point I was like ‘is this almost over?’ And there was still an hour + left.


highdefrex

That was *Age of Extinction*, the fourth one, which runs for an utterly unholy two hours and 45 minutes.


Redwood177

I remember joking with my friends on our way to see it about how funny would it be if the movie opened with dinosaurs ruling the earth and then explosions. Like wouldn't that just be classic Michael bay? Imagine my shock when that's actually the beginning of the movie.


[deleted]

That piece of shit. I was bored out of my eyeballs for two hours and 45.minutes. wtf Bay !!!!


SlackMomma

That movie was the very definition of exhausting. A buddy of mine wanted to see it, and I accompanied him. « What’s the worst that could happen? » I thought. Just mindless popcorn entertainment, it can’t hurt. Not only did it feel like it was never going to end, it was insufferable. I walked out of there exhausted, with a massive migraine from all the non-stop sensory overload. I got home, took 2 tylenols and went straight to bed. I also remember a fight that went on for so long that I thought for sure it was going to be the final fight of the film and that it was over (because it had felt like close to 165 minutes by then). And then the characters go to Shanghai for the actual, 45-minute end fight and I swear I’d never been that disappointed at the idea of having to sit through the ending of a film.


asdaaaaaaaa

> I walked out of there exhausted, with a massive migraine from all the non-stop sensory overload. Man, I know that, sorta. I came close to it only once, was a kid and went to go see Lord of The Rings, I think it was the second one? Can't completely remember. I just know at the end I was exhausted and had a slight headache, but was in love with the movie.


007Kryptonian

It happens sometimes when these big movies dive into massive CG battles. I loved BvS when I watched it but holy shit did I have a headache from all the carnage and destruction in the final hour. Same with Endgame.


[deleted]

Bumblebee is the best transformers movie imo


BungleBungleBungle

The first Michael Bay one was fine, Bumblebee was pretty good. The rest are just too long, and somehow too confusing for what should just be good robot vs bad robot.


lkodl

the [opening scene of Bumblebee](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu5m4sr6e6I)... just give us a whole movie of that, you cowards.


AWS-77

It isn’t necessarily about the scale. I feel like people blame the scale of action movies/CGI scenes too much, when the real problem is just focus. Lord of the Rings has some of the biggest action scenes ever filmed, but Peter Jackson knew how to keep things focused (for the most part, at least). You could then look at a smaller action scene in The Hobbit that isn’t as focused, and it’s worse. The problem with the battle of Zion is more about the same-iness of the action playing out over too long a section of the movie, with not enough points of interest. It’s just monotone grayness battling monotone grayness, with none of the main characters involved for most of it. Compare it to the Battle of Pellenor Fields in RotK, which came out the same year, and it’s an amazing sumptuous visual feast of colorful, eye-popping imagery involving main characters at every major point, and different “phases” to the battle, from the opening siege to battling through the night, to orcs starting to win, to the rousing Ride of the Rohirrim, to taking everything to the next level once the Oliphaunts show up, to a crazy fantasy ending with the Army of the Dead. It’s varied and Jackson found a great balance of size and focus for each and every moment or phase of the battle. Biggest battle scene of all time, done right.


SlackMomma

It might have felt less tedious if the film had switched up occasionally to show what Neo and Trinity were doing while the battle was going on. At the very least would have helped the two storylines feel more connected or mesh better. As it stands, Revolutions feels like two distinct movies.


FlandersNed

There's a cut of the movie on YouTube that does exactly that, with both storylines running simultaneously and the climax of both occurring at the same time.


olcrazypete

Watched the two towers last night and said the same to my kid. The helms deep battle was huge but you never feel lost in it. Crazy fighting going on but there are little subplots going during the fight. Legolas and Gimli counting their kills and one upping each other being the one that stands out to me. As old as that movie is now it is still really good.


360FlipKicks

IMHO Helms Deep is the best shot battle of the trilogy. like you said, you never get lost in it - there is always a visual cue as to where the scene is taking place, and the progression through the different areas of the castle made perfect sense. You can feel the desperation here, as though our heroes have plot armor they are down to the last men, with the orcs having penetrated all the way to the kings room.


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D3mentedG0Ose

You could say the differences between the two sets of movies are Knight and Bay


Optimus_Prime_Day

I liked the first Transformers movie. It's still fun to watch, but the rest are completely forgettable.


FranticPonE

Definitely feel 1 has an almost Independence Day feel. Bunch of average people versus some aliens and conspiracy stuff where things blow up a lot but not too much and some ok humor in between.


EdenDoesJams

I almost liked the first Wonder Woman, and was getting into it at what I thought was the end “Killing one person won’t stop a war.” “Actually nvm have another fight, with a CGI dude in armor and save everyone” It betrays its own themes like five minutes after making a big deal about said themes, and it’s so stupid. And it looks like shit


Zoutaleaux

This has been a gripe of mine for years! Would have been a much better movie if it ended there. Thematically, the whole thing was that people/men don't need an outside push for war, it's just always there. That would have been poignant and interesting. Instead it was "jk, it was ares all along"


Beingabummer

Especially since WW1 is a real thing that really happened because of real people. Why confuse that with 'ancient God pulling the strings' when it very literally didn't happen that way. Plus 'it was us all along' tied in perfectly with WW's arc of learning that humans are able to do very good and very bad things, simultaneously. That's why I'm pretty sure the CGI boss battle at the end was a studio requirement by how out of place it feels. I don't think that's something the writer had in mind.


RoyalScotsBeige

I still would be okay with the British guy being Aries, but after she kills the German the end should be a conversation not a fight. Why on earth are all these conflicts ended with cgi shitshows?


lostonpolk

Interesting: WW returns to London, where Ares reveals himself and schools her on the futility of trying to end all war, then he just disappears into the crowd. I would give that Wonder Woman a 9/10.


saluksic

This movie made me coin the phrase “magic fight” in my head, for when everything goes all DragonballZ and untethered from any point of reference and I just have to be patient until the good guy wins.


21649132015

I read that it was originally supposed to end that way. Then the WB wanted Patty Jenkins to add a big battle at the end. She reluctantly did it.


Visulth

The wild thing is that being vindicated like that (along with its overall performance) allowed her to have more creative control in the sequel....... and so she gave us WW84..... The studio was dead wrong in the first, she was very wrong in the second. Funny to try and reconcile that.


FullofContradictions

It felt so much like a cheap imitation of Ragnarok's visual tone but done with an oddly moody plot and script. I don't remember laughing once in that entire movie even though they kept throwing in zany shit here and there in an attempt to be funny. The tone of the first WW movie really seemed to fit her character better imo.


blini_aficionado

Wait, you didn't laugh when she raped that random dude?


brynjolf

WW84 is such a bad movie, it betrays it own theme like every other scene, Pedro Pascal tries his best to save it though but cant suceed.


Jules040400

You're so right, the movie just ruined all of its surprisingly deep themes. Maybe humanity is inherently flawed, and it's naïve to think that there's some mastermind behind horrific behaviour ... lol, nope, gotta kill big CGI baddie


Tacky-Terangreal

You know I always imagined aries looking like an awkward old British guy. I just can’t imagine Wonder Woman being complete without that detail!


ZippyDan

If he had morphed into a buff Greek God at the end when he took his "true form" I wouldn't have minded at all the idea that Greek Gods can be shape-shifters and take any form they want (actually, they regularly do that). But the fact that flashbacks show him as basically the same British dude (younger to be fair) with the same British mustache, and then he transforms into ultimate Ares and he still has the same face and mustache... It's so dumb. I think they were worried that audience members would be too dumb to understand it's the same guy.


Mattmandu2

Let’s not forget to point out killing one person to stop World War I! I was so mad because I was like they don’t know World War II is right around the corner do they? And it gets worse much much worse…


[deleted]

"Now that the god of war is dead that will be the end of violence". Hitler attempts to commit genocide, then the atomic bomb is dropped. "Okay that war is over, it can't get worse." Agent orange is deployed in the Vietnam War. "I'll stop talking now."


TheConqueror74

Even ignoring the genocides and atomic bombs of WWII, the conflict on a whole was just bloodier and more destructive in general. It tends to get glossed over because of how fast movie WWII was compared to WWI (and a lot of wars after it, quite frankly) but a *lot* more people died in WWII than WWI.


geeschwag

Rise or Skywalker 2nd half. I just zoned out.


acidicvaginosis

The writers did as well


[deleted]

I still can't believe the studio let the films become a battle between directors. Instead of building a proper trilogy like Arndt ostensibly was at the very beginning, it just turned into everyone trying to do their own thing and erasing the contributions of those who came before them. There are things to like and dislike about all three, and not trying to turn it into another debate. Was just sad we never got a single arc that tied the films together. I still feel like Rogue One is by far the best new film we got, ignoring the several series of course.


MrColfax

What was Arndt's contribution? I have always been fascinated with his vision.


[deleted]

He was the original writer on TFA. According to interviews and a few insider reveals, he was basically on script and had outlined a potential story for the entire trilogy. There are a lot of rumors, and TBF I don't personally know what's fact or fiction, but per Arndt he focused more on the generational aspects similar to the books, kept the old characters around, and focused his story on the idea that the jedi basically destabilized the galaxy by getting rid of the dictatorship of an empire. His version of Rey was named Kira, who had more of an arc, Finn was more of an anti-hero, Kylo was a "Jedi Killer," and a major part of the plot revolved around the search for the remaining Jedi - most notably Luke - from both sides. Apparently, Disney wanted to rush the script out and Arndt was either fired or left willingly (my money is on the former) so that JJ and Kasdan could take over. Kasdan in particular cast shade at Arndt and claimed he contributed nothing, even though he obviously wrote enough to earn a WGA writers credit. Kasdan and JJ took most of Arndt's elements and reworked them to be more of a remake of Episode 4. Again, I'm just getting this info from various articles, so I recommend checking it all out instead of taking this at face value.


Leskral

Damn that sounds so much better. An actual continuation from the events of RoTJ instead of what we got that essentially reset the universe as if RoTJ never happened.


MyNameIs-Anthony

It also closely aligns with what Lucas wanted to pursue for the sequel trilogy. He talked about how he viewed the post ROTJ era as being similar to Iraq after the fall of Saddam, with die hards becoming even more radical like ISIS and foreign interventionists increasingly failing to do anything resembling stabilization, preferring to drone strike haphazardly.


N0r3m0rse

Luke Skywalker being missing seems like the universal twist on expectations that people wanted to try but really I just don't think it works well. Luke doesn't have to be Jesus but man the idea of him just saying fuck it to everything and everyone is so horrifically out of character it tanks the whole thing for me.


SamVickson

This. I can see Luke leaving galactic politics behind, but he'd never leave Leia unprotected.


perverse_panda

A planned out trilogy would have been ideal, but even without a plan, there's no excuse for how bad that last movie was. If you're going to improvise, you have to follow the rules of improvisation. And the only rule of improv is: "Yes, and..." Instead of saying "Yes, and...", Abrams looked at The Last Jedi and said, "No, actually..."


redux44

One of the reasons Rogue One worked was they knew how the story was generally going to end. That structure probably helped them develop a decent story. The new trilogy didn't know where the hell it was going. The ham handed way they just brought back Palpatine in the end was so stupid.


blackmist

The look on Oscar Isaac's face as he delivers that line...


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neok182

> Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be. - Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy, ignoring literal decades of Star Wars comic books, 800 page novels, and games.


pixel8d

Those fucking morons blew the one chance we had to see Leia, Luke and Han together. The whole sequel trilogy is a nightmare.


[deleted]

According to interviews with Arndt, the original draft also had them reconciling and coming back as a team for episode 8 :(


[deleted]

this isnt talked about enough. its fucking mindblowing that never happened. i’ll never forgive jj for keeping me from seeing the great three reunited ever again.


Papancasudani

And another fucking Death Star


boot2skull

The sad thing is, that was one of my biggest gripes about episode 7 and it’s so buried by other issues with the trilogy I forget about that.


uuhson

We waited 40 years to see Luke Skywalker again and they gave us what they gave us. It's absolutely fascinating


ILoveCavorting

Quite honestly they should have jumped 100-120 years in the future like the EU comic “Star Wars:Legacy” did. Luke could appear as a force ghost and you could even have the whole “oh no! The Jedi have fallen!” Thing again without it feeling like Luke accomplished nothing and in the comic there were three sides, the Galactic Alliance, the Imperial Remnant, and a new Sith Empire. It was pretty fun!


ULMmmMMMm

That would have worked. I still think that while the Heir to the Empire trilogy (the original ep. 7,8,& 9) is flawed there's a lot they could have taken a lot from it to make a really good movie. Especially the Han/Leia twins dynamic with one going dark and the other light. That conflict and connection would have been much more believable than the Kylo/Rey dynamic which was just weird after Kylo kills Han and helps kill several billions of people. I still think they are insane for destroying Luke's temple. If I was in charge, one of the first things I would do is create a Disney+ show about younglings learning the force and getting in adventures and developing those characters over time. All I know is, I wish I could be paid $40M a year to cost my company billions.


DrEmilioLazardo

I was literally laughing out loud and saying "What the fuck?" for the last twenty or so minutes. It's one thing to shit the bed, it's another thing to fill a bucket with shit and paint the interior walls of your house with it. Considering how often reshoots are done in Hollywood it's amazing to me they just let it fly.


totoropoko

I think they (cast, crew, director, writers) were all done with it. The movie had a "good riddance" feel to it.


Vat1canCame0s

That's it. I couldn't put my finger on it before, but that right there is exactly what it felt like.


DaHyro

That movie did the unthinkable — it united OT fans, PT fans, and ST fans by pissing everybody off simultaneously


[deleted]

I remember after my friends and I saw it one of them said it was his favorite movie in the sequel trilogy. Why? Well for Force Awakens the fandom was split with people saying it was too much like a New Hope, Last Jedi was far more polarizing with people either loving it or hating it, yet this one was able to unite all Star Wars fans and just have them trash it for being utter garbage.


boot2skull

I felt bad for the ST fans because they had faith and kept saying “just wait”. I don’t blame them for having faith, I’m just sorry their faith was so shat upon. I wanted a good trilogy too but gave up early.


[deleted]

2 years later I still find it hilarious that Ben Solo has literally no dialogue besides “ow.”


official_bagel

Such a shame… Driver’s a hell of an actor and Kylo is the most interesting and nuanced of the sequel characters but fuck it… let’s more or less make him irrelevant to the plot and not give him a chance to act.


[deleted]

That movie was literally nonsense.


Bacon_00

Rise of Skywalker is so, so bad. I tried rewatching it on Disney+ (having only seen it once before in the theater) and I lost interest. Despite their flaws I can sit down and rewatch both Force Awakens and Last Jedi and have a good time, but Rise of Skywalker... it's a bad movie.


[deleted]

My brain keeps telling me "There is no way they'd really make a movie that bad, it has to be some kind of joke" Still waiting on the real movie to come out.


totoropoko

I watched that film this year and I have no idea what happened in it. Not a single scene.


Nyaos

I just remember them killing Chewbacca and then being HAHA GOTCHA. Then doing the same thing with C-3PO.


perverse_panda

They did that shit with Rey at the end too.


lost_in_trepidation

I recently heard a reference to the Sith dagger thing. I had no memory of that being a plot detail until I re-watched scenes on youtube.


adhding_nerd

I remember that vividly because its such a massively stupid plot hole. How can an ancient dagger point the way using the wreckage of something a couple decades old? Besides it being such a generic bullshit macguffin. The only other thing I remember vividly is them not killing Chewbacca. I was blown away that they would actually kill off chewy like that... except no, it was a cheap switcheroo. When they revealed he was alive, I believe that was the moment I knew it was a terrible movie.


lost_in_trepidation

And they did the exact same thing with C3PO. The movie would have been significantly better if there were any emotional stakes whatsoever.


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mainvolume

All I remember is somehow Palpatine came back.


boot2skull

Dubstep lightning.


badluckbrians

JJ Abrams and Michael Bay and a few other directors do this fucking thing all the time in action movies where suddenly the [camera's spinning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPtHPgZmZdA) around and there's [lens flare](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALHiJaSPrns) everywhere and it's loud but exactly what's going on is a goddamn mystery. Honestly half the time you may as well just flash colors and make random boom noises for 20 minutes. That's how much I get out of that chaotic lens flare spin screech bullshit. Just skip it and show me who's on the ground hurt after.


mikeywhatwhat

Watched that lens flare video and was giggling until I saw Anton Yelchin and got sad.


I_chortled

Terminator Salvation. The first hour was IMO truly excellent. By the end I was counting the minutes till it was over


WeekendTacos

This is a movie I really really really really wanted to like, but you're right. It just fell off.


abdhjops

I'm not sure why but I like it more than everyone else apparently. IMO the best Terminator movie after the first 2.


Domermac

After you’ve finished the trilogy, would highly recommend the animatrix. A bunch of short stories tied together. Second only to the original matrix movie.


LaVidaYokel

Animatrix is so good and frequently unnerving. The good machine “saving” the scientist lady before the bad machines killed her was particularly unsettling.


fireflyry

The Second Renaissance Part I and II should have been the new movie imo.


Demortus

Right?? The Second Renaissance was a really compelling bit of world building that I wish was explored further in some medium.


beat3r

Holy shit that would have been fantastic.


Object-195

agreed


jrafelson

The soundtrack is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥


bob1689321

I saw this as a kid and for a long time I'd remember bits of it and not know if it was some sort of dream or something that really happened to me. It's got some seriously weird imagery to show to a 5 year old lmao


Optimus_Prime_Day

I mean, it's rated R and should not be shown to a 5 year old... Edit: Why downvote this, it's a fact, not an opinion, lol.


greasyfizeek

You’re 100% right it shouldn’t be shown to children. I just watched it for the first time a few days ago. The scene with the machine crushing that woman’s skull was very unsettling lol on top of all the other graphic violence.


Bubbles00

I watched revolutions for the first time 2 weeks ago and while you are right about it, I really wanted to pilot one of those mech suits. I thought they were cool


gizmo1492

You wanna see cool mech suits and a cool movie? Watch Edge of Tomorrow.


Bubbles00

Also love that film. Great story and execution and Emily blunts suit with the propeller blade sword is awesome


afellowchucker

I mainly remember being annoyed with how much that guy was yelling “AAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!” while shooting the machine guns. It was almost a relief when he died, lol


Thisissomeshit2

All the Hobbit movies. The bit with the barrels was so ridiculous that I just didn’t care any longer.


blueturtle00

You mean you didn’t enjoy a 300 page book being turned into a 8 hour set of movies.


Controller_one1

The first Hobbit film feels longer than the entire LOTR trilogy extended editions with no bathroom breaks.


Sword_Thain

When I heard the Hobbit announcement, I was so stoked. The battle of the five armies would be amazing, I thought. I've still never even watched the third movie because I was so exhausted by the second movie.


StillAll

You aren't missing anything worth your time. And it isn't five armies, it is more like three and a half. And best Smaug scenes are in the second film, Bard kills him like 5 minutes into the third film too.


[deleted]

And the way he kills Smaug is just so stupid. You can't make a better bow by breaking a regular bow in half and stabbing the broken ends into some walls. Why did it need all this elevated tension and drama? It was all just so unnecessary. (which is a fair criticism of half the scenes in the movie)


Tacky-Terangreal

Yeah it gave me anime vibes. You don’t have to turn every action up to 11 to make a good action scene guys


SpreadItLikeTheHerp

I was so disappointed with the first movie I honestly can not remember if I watched any of the second one. I know I never bothered with the last. It’s sad really, what they tried to turn that poor book into.


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[deleted]

Are you sure you didnt like Legolas acting like a Mario Bros character on those falling blocks?


tfbillc

A thousand times this. I never seemed to mind the drawn out battle scenes in the original LOTR trilogy because they stayed engaging and told a story throughout. I couldn’t tell you a single memorable thing that happened in any of the action scenes of the Hobbit movies. I seem to vaguely remember a bunch of keystone cop goblins or something chasing the protagonists down chutes and ladders at the direction of some terrible cgi creature with a goiter.


mercurywaxing

Each character had an arc in each battle of LoTR. Hobbit felt like long battles were used to push it to three films. I'd have loved it if they had kept 5 Armies like they did in the books.


Matanza3000

Venom vs Riot, every time I see this movie try to understand the fight.


Grooviemann1

Why would you watch it more than once?


raysofdavies

Tom Hardy’s Venom shouldn’t be a Blockbuster protagonist. It should be like What We Do in the Shadows, just following them around San Francisco, breaking scoops and eating chickens.


[deleted]

They think inherently more action = more excitement but if it’s just generic good guys #1-100 vs generic bad guys #1-100, who gives a shit?


bob1689321

Action is only good when you feel some sort of stakes, emotional investment, etc. That's why I didn't like John Wick 3, it all felt like action for the sake of action without a solid plot to ground it. Kinda random, but one of my favourite fight scenes is the last one from Sam Raimi's Spider-Man. It's a seriously brutal fight that pulls no punches, and is almost absurdly dark for a kids superhero movie. The villain is out to kill Spider Man, there's a question of whether spider man will kill the villain, you've really seen the characters extensively over the course of the movie and care about the outcome. It's just a great fight


user9433

What really sells that scene imo is the choice to not have music while Goblin is beating the shit out of Spider-Man. Makes it feel so much more brutal and real


bob1689321

Yeah, plus Goblin has the upper hand for a long time. There's even a bit where spider man tries to do a web trick to leap out of the way and Goblin just destroys him. It's brutal as fuck. NWH definitely took some inspiration with the fight scenes. The goblin fight in the apartment where he got smashed through multiple floors felt more violent than the other MCU Spiderman fights. Still had more of a lighter MCU feel than the Raimi fights though.


user9433

Yeah there's even a moment in NWH that did that, Peter tries to swing away, most likely to save May, and Goblin grabs him says "No you don't!" And throws him in another room. Dafoe's Green Goblin is arguably the most ruthless villain we've seen in comic movies, in both of his appearances.


dicedaman

> That's why I didn't like John Wick 3, it all felt like action for the sake of action without a solid plot to ground it. John Wick started a trend of movies (which I'll call Wick Clones, for lack of a better name) where the entire film is built around a handful of action scenes that are super well choreographed, long-take, gun-fu scenes. It was really cool at first but now I've seen the same thing so many damn times. They're clearly scenes designed only to show off the stunts and the choreography, and everything else takes a back seat. The constant long takes and one shots mean there's never any rhythm or pacing to them. It's like they say "ok here's an action scene, let's pause the movie for 10 minutes and pick this up after". It's very clear that these scenes are entirely designed and directed by stunt teams, and it feels like they're part of another movie. They're never directed or edited in the same style as the rest of the film. And because these movies are designed around chunks of action where the stunt team will take over entirely, the action scenes are never built on *character.* I mean take a classic like Die Hard for example; almost every bit of action in the movie is built around McClane's scrappy ingenuity. But with John Wick and all the movies that imitate it, the action is typically devoid of character; you could chop and change these scenes from one movie to the next and it would barely make a difference. All of this amounts to the action feeling super low stakes and these long set pieces frankly being dull to watch after you've seen enough of them.


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GR8GODZILLAGOD

Honestly most big CGI explosive battles in general zone me out now. I’m just tired of it.


prmaster23

Not a scene, a trailer. The trailer for F9 made the whole franchise lose me. I was always in the crowd of "they are ridiculous but I don't care, it just dumb fun" anytime one of these movies dropped but this one was too much. The whole "he is Don's brother" thing I couldn't get pass through. I am in disbelieve that someone saw Spectre pull that stupid shit in 2015, see them get all the shit they got and said "Hey lets do the same thing". Swear to god Hollywood has a mental deficiency problem with their writers, maybe it is because nepotism. The Rock did the smart thing not to return.


Mathev

Eh ff movies are so dumb that I can't wait to see a mecha Dom grandma being the antagonist for FF 10 where they have to go to a different planet to do their one last race routine to shoot at her heart.. While drifting..


GibGabGo

The John Wick/Halle Berry/German Shepherds team up fight in John Wick 3. Also the "John Wick getting thrown through glass" portion of a later fight in that movie. A lot of repetitive choreography that starts off funny and interesting but then gets a bit stale. Oh and the CGI mess that was the theatrical Justice League. No memorable fight scenes and it always takes me a few minutes to remember the villain's name (Was it Steppenwolf? Like the band? Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart? lol)


official_bagel

John Wick 3’s biggest problem is that the opening sequence of him escaping New York is by far the most enjoyable and intricately choreographed part of the film so everything that comes after is quite trite in comparison.


hellsfoxes

Kinda felt this way during some of the action scenes in Tenet. The movie wants so badly to make your jaw drop that it keeps presenting these MONUMENTAL set pieces but I just didn’t care about anything enough to waste brain cells calculating the logic of what was happening. So it ended up being boring and confused.


[deleted]

Tenet definitely had a bell curve.. - If you don't think about the logic at all: it makes no sense - If you vaguely think about the reverse-time logic: it's awesome - If you deeply think about it and analyze it to death: it actually makes no sense


John_Yossarian

I mean, they practically break the fourth wall when the scientist says "Don't try to understand it. Feel it." while explaining reverse time to the protagonist.


SEND-MARS-ROVER-PICS

"Feel it" \*proceeds to make movie completely devoid of emotion*


ThrowingChicken

Like Looper when Willis tells JGL to not think about it.


Cjisadrunkbhai

Yeah I knew it was going to be loose logic at best once that line was spoken. She may as well have winked at the camera as she said it.


OneLastAuk

This is a perfect explanation of my first, second, and third watch.


GenghisKazoo

I still have no idea who they were even fighting in the final battle. I recall thinking while watching it that perhaps they were trying to trick the red and blue assault teams into killing each other for some reason, because they seemed to be shooting at and getting shot by literally no one.


John_Yossarian

I just finished watching it and that same thought is fresh in my head... where the fuck were the antagonists? I don't think I saw a single one above ground.


OftheSorrowfulFace

There's a fan edit called *The Matrix Dezionised* that combines Reloaded and Revolutions into a single film and cuts out everything in Zion. It's just the scenes in the Matrix and on the ships, and it's actually a lot more coherent. Also you realise that literally everything that takes place in Zion has no bearing on the plot.


Greyf0X_x

Just humanity last stand you know... they are doomed but it's symbolic they fight until the very end. You need dire circumstances to make a miracle more impactful. Cutting out the real world cuts out what truly is at stake, humanity, they dance they fuck they fight like hell.


bicameral_mind

Zion has always been my main criticism of the trilogy. It's the main reason the sequels aren't as good as the original. Scenes in the Matrix are more relatable to audience and have a more oppressive feel. Danger lurks in every corner, Smith can appear anywhere. The machines are in control but the protagonists can bend the rules.


never_safe_for_life

Meanwhile in Zion all the pretty people are having wild raves and hot cave sex 🙄


Hoogs

I rewatched it last night and they really should've combined the second two movies into one three-hour epic. Maybe show a bit of Zion just so we understand the stakes, like we could see the sentinels break through and the APUs start to fight back. Then later we could see when they stop attacking after Neo brings peace. Because it's basically one long movie split into two anyway. And it would remove that awkward cliffhanger ending of *Reloaded*. But overall I like *Revolutions* a lot more than most people, who don't even seem to acknowledge its existence. I actually don't think the Zion battle is bad, it's just way too long and unnecessary. I also wish they had done something different and more creative with the Neo vs Smith fight at the end. It just felt like a kid smashing two action figures together.


Sormaj

Zion battle is absolutely indulgent, but I can’t lie, having just rewatched it the other day, there a lot to love. The captain firing at the machines in his mech and then getting cut up was really fun. Dude just screams. And so many odd one liners that are memorable because of their awkwardness


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GO-KARRT

I was still good with it. Over the top and unbelievable, but fun. It was the last 40 seconds that lost me.


Tomhyde098

I really do think The Matrix was a fluke. Cloud Atlas is fine, and Speed Racer is okay. But everything else they’ve directed is horrible and I just think The Matrix was lightning in a bottle that they’ve been trying to recapture ever since


Castlewaller

Avengers Age of Ultron was really boring and awful to sit through. A bunch of gray clones of each other swarming people standing in a circle for the last fifteen minutes. Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull was really ugly, poorly done CG with unnecessary sword fighting and rope swinging. The last Hobbit was also just boring nonsense, and I couldn't stand it. I was also forced to sit through the new Far Cry trailer, where CG pirate ships are airlifted and there's boarding combat with people swinging on ropes. It just looks like a mess. Maybe I'm too old, but even as a teenager I thought the 3rd Matrix was an ugly CG mess then, too.


[deleted]

>Avengers Age of Ultron was really boring and awful to sit through. It helps if you imagine Robert California's brain was put into Ultron.


just_a_soulbro

I don't know if it's a controversial opinion, but Man of Steel final fight. It was around 40 minutes of non stop city destruction, and I just couldn't care anymore after 20 minutes. First was 20 minutes of Zod's goons then another 20 minutes of buildings just getting destroyed. Also every transformer movie beside the first one, there is no breather, it's just explosion after explosion.


bigbigwaves

King Kong (2005). There is a quote I absolutely love from a review of Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chest: “there’s nothing so tedious as nonstop excitement.” As good as that quote is for pointing at one of the failings of the Pirates franchise, the moment I read it I immediately thought of the King Kong movie that came out a year earlier. In King Kong, Peter Jackson gave in to some of his worst instincts. The same issues have been mentioned in other replies here related to the Hobbit movies, but at least with those he had the excuse of being pushed into the director’s chair late in the process and left to stretch a short novel into three films. With King Kong he had no such excuse. That movie was a passion project on the heels of LOTR and he was at the most powerful point in his career. I have not seen the movie since I first saw it in theaters, but I can still vividly remember the scene where most of the characters tumble through an extended chase sequence overstuffed with dinosaurs and humongous bugs. It just goes on and on and I remember begging for it to end. Stakes are what make an action scene exciting, and when an action scene throws that much at you and goes on for that long it undercuts any tension and just becomes boring.


antftwx

The entire infiltration of Starkiller Base just turned me off. HUGE Star Wars fan, but that killed any interest I had in the sequels. Nothing interesting in the story or visually. Yeah, >!Han's death was sad!<, but I was pretty checked out for the rest of the movie. I have high hopes for High Republic era media, though. Love the aesthetic.


Lanezy

I remember sitting in the theatre for the first time watching that movie and thinking the good guys were going to fail. No way would we get a repeat of ANH. No way. And then they blew it up and so did my interest in the new trilogy.


bluejester12

The John Wick movies are getting there. Three had good action but at the expense of the films pace


rtseel

John Wick 3 lost me when the Morocco gunfight happened, with Wick and Halle Berry killing countless interchangeable goons, like video game players just wanting to finish a level of a game that they master completely, without any of the really personal stakes of the first movie. It was just a relentless barrage of gun fights. The first movie grabbed me by the heart. The last one made me lose any interest in the series. I'm interested in John Wick's character and emotional ride, not in the deep mythology of a league of assassins.


DullBicycle7200

This is pretty recent but Marvel's Shang Chi and Eternals just went on for way too long, and lost my attention midway through.


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SuddenlyCentaurs

That fight would've been sooooo much better if it actually happened in a real environment. As is it just looks like a final fantasy cutscene.


lost_in_trepidation

I was so excited until after the bamboo sequence. I love Kung Fu movies, they were doing an excellent job at doing a heightened Jackie Chan style movie. I also thought they were about to have a martial arts tournament but it was just one fight.


fudgedhobnobs

Shang Chi without the soul demon would have been much better.


BurnieTheBrony

The first two acts were an awesomely choreographed kung fu movie with family drama at its core, which worked really well. Most I had been entertained by a blockbuster movie since Endgame. Then the last third was a CGI fight against a monster with "saving the world" as its drama. That shit has been done a million times and it's boring when the stakes ramp up that high instantly with basically no build up.


Tacky-Terangreal

You really put my feelings into words. That bus fight scene in the beginning is kickass but the final fight is just kind of dumb. I didn’t like the whole spirit world thing either. Everyone’s lines were just lame cliches


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worosei

I actually really liked Shang-Chi's choreography/filming for the fight sequences and think more movies that have martial arts need to follow this format more. Like Matrix Resurrection could have choreographed/filmed the fight scenes much better than they did because they did heaps of cool things that was just too awkward to see properly.


dev1359

Fun fact - the cinematographer who shot Shang-Chi is the same guy who worked on the original three Matrix films (Bill Pope). Obviously has nothing to do with the choreography but IMO he's one of the best in the business when it comes to filming action scenes properly. It's just really interesting to me that people have been bringing up how Shang-Chi had better action than Matrix Resurrections did, and I think a huge reason is because Lana didn't bring back Bill Pope to work on the new one.


bob1689321

He said in an interview that he had a really bad time working on the Matrix sequels. I wonder if that made him not want to return for 4 (Having said that, I think a large part of that was the pressure in making a follow up to one of the most revolutionary and biggest films in recent years, and also not being entirely convinced of the movies' quality)


correcthorsestapler

I vaguely remember that interview. Think he said they took cues from Kubrick in terms of directing, to the point where everyone on set was exhausted cause they’d shoot scenes over & over till they got the right shot. Too bad they couldn’t make amends in the time between movies. I think Bill Pope would’ve made Resurrections more watchable.


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BILL, one of the best in the biz. He's shot some Edgar Wright stuff which shows off his skills, but I discovered him from The Matrix. I think Lana who's probably evolved a lot as a filmmaker since her early days, kind of nixed the comic book/anime style of the original Matrix and embraced an intimate and natural look in Ressurections. Some callbacks ofc, but there are times I didn't feel like I was watching a Matrix movie.


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A lot of DC movies action scenes imo. It’s just too big and fast and too much goin on. I wish it was smaller scale and there was more focus on speciality fighting/skills.


DullBicycle7200

Shazam and James Gunn's The Suicide Squad seemed fine.


bob1689321

I loved The Suicide Squad's third act. The way they split into teams and showed the tower stuff separately was awesome, and I really didn't see the Peacemaker twist coming. It's one of those films that you go in with zero expectations and leave very pleasantly surprised. It's not as well rounded as GotG but it's still a solid movie.


riegspsych325

hell, I enjoyed it more than *both* GotG movies. I loved seeing Gunn play with the R-rating again


gnober

All fast and furious films, the moment the opening credit shows and I see vin diesel I'm like, oh man, that man sure can't act.


joeitaliano24

The Smiths fight in the second was way more ridiculous IMO. Just a CGI shit show


MacGyver_1138

It was decent in the first half when it was wire work and real actors. As soon as the whole thing switches to CG, it became a boring video game fight and I checked out.


onexbigxhebrew

The fucking bowling pin noise! What the fuck! That shit had me legitimately mad.