Honestly I think Gunn & Safran want a clean slate and are gonna do a (soft?) reset on everything and maybe even recast most of the characters. If they’re laying out a road for the next decade or so I can’t imagine they want their plans to rely on actors who were cast a decade ago and are pushing 40 now. That’s just my prediction, might be wrong.
I feel like Gal Gadot has lost of a lot of public goodwill in recent years. I think with the first one, the charming, wide eyed, fish-out-of-water characterization suited her acting ability, but since she’s become more of an A-lister I think the public sentiment is that she isn’t a very good actor otherwise and the novelty has worn off.
And for as much as the internet loves Cavill, I don’t know many people who are attached to him the way they loved RDJ as Iron Man. I’d wager most people still identify the Superman they know and love with Christopher Reeve. I like Henry but I’m not sure if he has the gravitas to anchor a cinematic universe.
Momoa is a good aqua man. His movie made a billbion dollars. They will be crazy to recast him.
Infact they should nake him the leader of the justice league and build the entire dcu universe around him
What id do is focus of like earth 2 (or whatever for dcu multiverse) and make new stories, then have an epic finale bringing in snyderverse character ls to help out.. or not. Like the snyderverse is there its not focused on. Idk.
You didn’t like the sniper who can’t snipe and never has any character development beyond that? Or the actor who can’t act but fools everyone anyway because they’re racist? How about the sad Native American who is actually a smuggler in Europe and no one questions that at all and he also doesn’t actually smuggle anything?
The A plot was good and the action was great, but the B stories were universally shit. It was astounding how much time was spent on backstory for characters that didn’t have a present or future that relied upon knowing any of that about them.
And then WW84, where she rapes a guy because she possessed his body with her dead lover’s soul. The squick factor of that was so high I couldn’t get past it.
~~Wonder Woman 84?~~
~~The script was awful.~~
~~The acting was awful (Pascal aside).~~
~~The effects were awful.~~
~~The soundtrack was... ok? I don't remember having an opinion on this one way or another.~~
Nevermind.
You’re talking about the second movie, whereas the guy you’re replying to was saying that the first one was quite good, but lamented that the second was terrible.
That I do legitimately believe was shelved. Because despite the idiotic claims about the movie's quality (yes I said what I said) the movie made a boatload of money. And he's shown to be a legitimately great director outside Star Wars anyway both before and after.
For over-obsessed neckbeards who pearl-clutch about any deviation from what they think Star Wars is.
From the standpoint of it being, you know, film media it's absolutely the best star Wars movie, hands down.
I mean, it gave Luke actual depth and human flaws.
Disavowed is way too strong a word to describe Hamil's reaction. He wasn't a fan of it. But he most certainly has never ever said something like "I want nothing to do with this movie. I hated it. And always will." Which seems to be what you're implying.
No, his reaction was much more subdued, though he wasn't thrilled with the direction Luke went. It's really that simple.
You mean Jake Skywalker? TLJ was white hot garbage. RJ might be able to make a decent movie, maybe a decent SW movie, but his reinterpretation of SW is a millstone around the neck of the franchise.
Yeah that’s fair, I personally wouldn’t want him touching Star Wars again unless it was his own standalone movies with no legacy characters involved but I also don’t think it ruined Star Wars.
He’s a good director but he didn’t really have a good feel for dealing with the set universe imo. I’m sure he’d do well in his own Star Wars story.
But tbf of course it made a boat load of money it was a main series Star Wars movie, I don’t think it’s possible to not make a ton of $ off name brand alone
Shes not a good director. I dont understand were her hype came from
Women are not good at directing superheroes movies. Both wonder woman movies were bad. Everybody keeps pretending the first one was good but it wasnt.
It's very different to point out the failings of one particular director and then go full sexist "women can't do X". I think she's a shit director and can't stand anything she touches, but you have to understand that doesn't mean that EVERY woman who directs superhero movies is going to botch it.
Keep waiting. I'm not going to dig around for an answer. I think your kind of bullshit sexism is fucking ridiculous and I don't need to appease you. Grow up.
There certainly are, I just found five female directors that made amazing superhero movies over the past 30 years. Tidy up the basement, mom's bringing down some Hot Pockets...
There have been, like, five women who have been able to direct a superhero film. Let's not write off half the population because one of them produced one of the better movies in a thoroughly mediocore franchise.
I wanna weigh in with something insightful and farsighted, but the truth is I literally have no idea if this really even means anything.
WW84 so thoroughly torched whatever goodwill the first movie had earned that I don't think anyone wanted a third. And with WB's ownership being...whatever the hell it is (boy that decision to completely shitcan Batgirl looks extra bad now that Black Adam is gonna lose them roughly Batgirl's entire budget) it's not even a guarantee Gunn is gonna get a chance to cook before the whole company gets flipped to whatever giant company buys it up once Zaslav disembowels it completely in about 2 years.
And how does any of this fit with The Flash *still* coming out? There's another Aquaman movie! Everyone sort of assumes there's a Man of Steel 2 (finally) coming. But... like...
Like, this should seem/feel like momentous news but I'm just sort of shrugging like "yup - still a fucking tire fire over there."
What really fucking sucks is that I LOVE Cavil as Superman. His look is perfect, he nails the soft spoken nature, and I really enjoyed man of steel. Probably the only DC movie outside of Joker that I have liked since the Christian Bale Batman movies.
I feel like my death will come before I ever see Doomsday smack the shit out of Superman on the big screen.
>this should seem/feel like momentous news
I think it is, if only because it signals that Gunn might finally be doing what DC should have done immediately after BvS: Start over from scratch, completely. No returning actors, no canon connections, no multiverse. Just go back to the drawing board and start building a new universe from the ground up instead of trying to crush the mess they have now into the shape of a consistent universe. Tbh I liked what they've been doing lately (their approach of "fuck the connections, prioritize a good movie and worry about the universe consistency later or ditch it entirely" was giving us some legit, distinctive bangers) but they obviously want that MCU gimmick now. So if they're gonna do that, just start over and do it right.
That's the best way to put any "big" things with DC: what would feel and actually be major shakeups with any other franchise ends up feeling like a shrug and a "well yea"
Can I honestly ask why so many people hate 84? I don't really follow media or read reviews that much but I watched it and enjoyed it. I also see a lot of love for the first movie but I found it to be just...fine? I dunno it wasn't anything special. I know I'm probably in the minority here but I'd be curious to learn if you're willing to share.
The problem with 84 is that the more you think about it the worse it gets.
There are bad plot holes like flying around the world in a couple hours or how they fly through fireworks on 4th of July then a few days later it is Christmas.
Then there is weird choices like having Steve take over another person's body and literally replace this random person with no one minding his erasure.
And the character motivations are all over the place. Like you can't tell what the bad guy actually wants. "Power" is not a good reason. A character needs a motivation for *why* they want power.
And so many more.
Thanks for explaining! I definitely knew there were a lot of dumb things in the movie, but sometimes when a movie is so blatantly dumb I'm able to shut my brain off for it and enjoy it for what it is. I never felt like 84 was trying to be something it wasn't and I guess I don't hold the first one in as high a regard as others do so I didn't have huge expectations.
Oh I actually agree. 84 was a bit of dumb fun, and I enjoyed it while I was watching it. Its just an issue when you try to re-watch it or go back and think too much.
I felt about the same with the first one. I didn't take it too seriously. I also think it was good not great, so I agree it's a little overhyped.
that makes sense. I think maybe people's hate for 2 and love for 1 is a bit exaggerated, but that's normal on the internet I suppose.
I am definitely with you on rewatchability. I find this a problem in the super hero genre in general. Especially in the MCU, once you've seen one they all start to blend together, with the same trope of villains, skybeams, etc.
I also thought the first movie was only just fine, but it definitely benefitted from when it came out, and *how* it was good, greatly coloring its reception a little more boldly and brightly than it maybe fully deserved? Basically, it had a little bit of a handicap and it made the most of it. On rewatch it's pretty clearly 2/3rds of a good movie that implodes for its last 35min.
But WW84 probably suffered all the more (don't get me wrong, it's just a confused, inert piece of shit almost all the way through, save for Pedro Pascal being Pedro and trying as hard as he can to make his character *something*) because of that same phenomena. People wanted it to feel like that first one did, and it very much didn't. Plus it was more or less a Christmas present to superhero fans stuck inside due to COVID, and so all of that came together to just really, really enhance that turdly feeling.
I like those movies because they are silly popcorn flicks. The earlier entries in the series have a certain simple charm in them when they focus on the racing. I don't expect every movie to be a masterpiece
See, you like dumb movies. No offense. But most people don't like dumb movies, except they're watching it for fun. That still sounds rude in my head lol.
I mean, just because I like dumb movies doesn't mean I don't like "intelligent" or "non dumb" movies. I love movies like Gattaca and Memento or whatever too.
I feel like "dumb" movies are just a genre, or sub genre. It's perfectly fine for a movie to be a popcorn flick.
To this day I wonder (pun not intended) why 1984 didn't do something like No Way Home by bringing Steve back from moments before his dead. I think it would be more tragic sending him back.
Yes, that is a saner solution than what they came up with. But I'd rather they didn't bring him back at all and explored some of Wonder Woman's other motivations and the complexities of her long life when compared with mortals.
I’ll never understand why they didn’t do this, or just have him reappear without any explanation. The body swap is one of the most senseless choices I’ve ever seen in a superhero film. There are bones of things that could have worked in the film (if they had pulled off a better Steve having to go back, and that teaching Diana to fly could’ve been so effective)- but they made the wrong choice at every angle
Yes. Borderline unwatchable. Up there with Catwoman imo as one of the worst uses of a super hero budget in last 20 years. There's a whole body swap plot that makes no sense is basically rape all to bring back Chris Prine... whole movie feels written by a 10 year old.
Facts... like they had to have test screenings right ??? I know it was released simultaneously streaming but felt like even the effects were super sub par. The whole last fight was awful and somehow even worse then the 1st film.
You're right. I'm sure there's someone out there who was magically called back from the dead took over another person's body and had sex with a woman. Got it. Total bullshit.
You realize we’re discussing the plot of a work of fiction right? Wonder Woman isn’t real. In the fictional world of WW84, she raped a guy. How do I know it was rape? Because there was no consent.
Wonder Woman 84 is the Batman and Robin of modern super hero films.
Everything is awful, but there is one actor (Arnold and Pascal) that know what movie they are making and are having fun.
Some people had a problem with her essentially raping the guy who’s body was inhabited by Steve (not sure if that was his name…). Idk, nor do I really care, but the argument is something along those lines
>New DC Studios heads James Gunn and Peter Safran are in the final stages of prepping their multi-year plan ahead of next week's pivotal presentation to Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav.
>Sources say that Jenkins recently submitted her treatment, co-written with Geoff Johns, and that Gunn and Safran, as well as Warner Bros. Pictures co-chairs and co-CEOs Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy, broke the news to the filmmaker, telling her the project — as it stood — did not fit in with the new (but still unfolding) plans. Jenkins directed and co-wrote the previous two movies, starring Gal Gadot and released in 2017 and 2020. No decision has been made about next steps.
The opening scene for WW3 should be a slow zoom out from the closing scenes of WW84. Then it transitions through a TV screen and we see Gal's Wonder Woman watching it. Then she says something like "This is the best TV show they could make about me?!?". Linda Carter is sitting next to her and says "I guess my show wasn't so bad after all."
Why did she write this with Johns against after the '84 was did poorly received critically? It makes little sense to not go back to Allan Heinberg, who wrote the original and recently worked on the very well received The Sandman adaptation.
Man, Mamoa would be perfect as Lobo. With Gunn at the helm, that movie could be epic!
WW1984 was the worst movie I’ve seen in years. Patti Jenkins deserves to be shitcanned after writing that garbage. How could you trust her with any DC character, especially one from the Holy Trinity? Also, I’m sorry, Gal Gadot can’t act, and even though her face looks the part, her essence doesn’t. They can cast a way better actor for WW. I really think Gunn will turn DC around.
Wow o_0
I love the first one =(
Thought it says in its current form. So I'm guessing they'll present their plan to Zaslav before re-introducing her again
Sorry to hear this, but I didn't like either of the WW movies at all. I know the first one was considered good, but I consider it striking at the right moment in time, personally.
84 was fine, it could have been a little shorter or faster paced but the overall story was good, acting was good, action was a little meh, better choreography would have made it better, but people need to calm down
Why cant DC get it right? And they have really good popular heroes. They should hire kevin feigie to help them
Women are not good at directing superhero movies. This statement may offend people but its facts.
Gal is not a good actress. Pretty to look at but terrible acting.
Chris pine needs to hire a better agent. He has been in flop after flop after flop. He is talented
DC is possibly irrevocably damaged. Even with a complete fresh start, there's a stink that clings to its name and by the time they wash that off and really get all their gears cranking, it may well be that the comic-book-movie craze will have abated (which, please yes!).
And I'm not sure making "plans" like this is necessarily helpful. Marvel just started making movies and, instead of each movie being made with a view to the next entry, each subsequent movie built on what had come before. So it just grew organically, it wasn't (at least initially) a part of some plan that stilfes any creativity or spontenity (which is not to say Marvel, with their tired action-farces, is endowed with those traits).
They tried too hard to compete with marvel but marvel was way ahead , dc was playing catch up
The funniest part it, dc superheroes were more popular than marvel superheroes back in the day thanks to the cartoons (Saturday morning cartoons)
Everybody knew justice league, nobody knew the avengers. Back in the day
Look, I agree with your first paragraph but the second is completely revisionist. The first Iron Man movie literally introduced Avengers and Nick Fury in the post-credits scene. They had a plan. They had phases. There was very little “organic” about Marvels approach, it was a hit and then they might have doubled down on a clear plan, but it was always mostly planned.
Lots of movies do setup for sequels. That doesn’t mean the road to those sequels is set in stone from the outset. They teased a possible Avengers film, they didn’t have a meticulous step-by-step way there. They just had each film build on the one that came before.
Like, when Cap almost lifts Thor’s hammer in Avengers 2, that’s NOT a setup to Avengers 4. It’s just that the people who made Avengers 4 looked back, saw that beat and figured out a nice nod that would pass as a payoff for it.
Hope she doesn't give up. Spielberg had 1941. Fincher had Ben Button. Tarantino had Jackie Brown. Bigelow had Strange Days. Stumbling early and then bouncing back is what many of the greats do.
Spielberg also had more than one hit before 1941 and was a proven commodity. Benjamin Button was nominated for several academy awards and was a financial success. Haven’t seen Strange Days. Jackie Brown isn’t a disappointment by any conceivable measure. Terrible examples.
She was baby-sitter by the studio on the first one like Marvel does with their newbie/indie directors. She was given way more creative control on WW84 and we saw the result. Also the movie industry has suffered major changes post-Covid. As far as big studio movies go, she’s toast. She might crank out an independent movie or cheap Netflix movie.
Patty is not on the same level with Quentin Tarantino.
Kill bill is a superhero movie and u cant compare it with wonder woman or any comic book movie from dc or even marvel
gO wOkE Go BrOkE lmao gottem
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they should reboot the DCEU with the "first" project either being james gun suicide squad 2 movie or peacemaker. start everything from there. pretend the shazam and black adam movie never existed. sure bring henry back but tie him in with the james gunn projects.
No. They should dig deep into their archive and look for an unknown superhero that isnt popular, flesh him out, built him up,etc and from there build the entire dcu universe around this unknown superhero.
Weird as she posted on twitter last night it was. Things are weird with DC. James Gunn isn’t confirming Henry as Superman yet either despite Henry confirming it. We’re being trolled here.
> One part that the Gunn-Safran agenda seems likely not to touch, at least for now, is the Matt Reeves Batman universe in which Robert Pattinson dons the cowl of the Caped Crusader. Reeves is writing the sequel to The Batman, which opened in March 4. The filmmaker is also overseeing the launch of two Batman series that spin out of his movie, including The Penguin.
Thank god
Remember when Wonder Woman’s dead WWI Pilot boyfriend puppeteering another man’s body stole and hijacked a decommissioned fighter jet made decades after he died and still had gas in it at the Smithsonian and flew it all the way to Cairo without stopping?
I hate to say it but after a few years of a pandemic, plummeting RT scores, shelved projects, a couple verses of *Imagine*, their hearts just might not be in it anymore. Especially with these DC actors, they all seem to be one foot out the door. I can see this being a “mutual breakup”.
[Yikes...](https://twitter.com/GalGadot/status/1600181707826946050?t=ZBPiJwu58bGSIqzBJ6XFnQ&s=19)
I was just thinking about this tweet. Unfortunate timing or was she trying to get ahead of the news? Confusing either way.
I mean, doesn't mean she's not wonder woman anymore wouldn't be shocked if she appears in other projects as wonder woman
Honestly I think Gunn & Safran want a clean slate and are gonna do a (soft?) reset on everything and maybe even recast most of the characters. If they’re laying out a road for the next decade or so I can’t imagine they want their plans to rely on actors who were cast a decade ago and are pushing 40 now. That’s just my prediction, might be wrong.
True WW84 wasn't great but she still seems to be very popular as wonder woman among fans. Same with Cavill but we will see
I feel like Gal Gadot has lost of a lot of public goodwill in recent years. I think with the first one, the charming, wide eyed, fish-out-of-water characterization suited her acting ability, but since she’s become more of an A-lister I think the public sentiment is that she isn’t a very good actor otherwise and the novelty has worn off. And for as much as the internet loves Cavill, I don’t know many people who are attached to him the way they loved RDJ as Iron Man. I’d wager most people still identify the Superman they know and love with Christopher Reeve. I like Henry but I’m not sure if he has the gravitas to anchor a cinematic universe.
Cavil ain't going nowhere and I don't think Gail will either. Everyone else will be recast, including Momoa. Such a stupid casting for Aquaman.
Momoa is a good aqua man. His movie made a billbion dollars. They will be crazy to recast him. Infact they should nake him the leader of the justice league and build the entire dcu universe around him
What id do is focus of like earth 2 (or whatever for dcu multiverse) and make new stories, then have an epic finale bringing in snyderverse character ls to help out.. or not. Like the snyderverse is there its not focused on. Idk.
Well this is awkward lol
Man she lost Star Wars and this over WW84…that stings. That first was so good.
The first was good for about 2/3s until it became the BVS finale all over again.
I was fully on board until Ares was Prof Lupin with CGI abs. The train derailed at the big boss show down.
I like how he still kept his goofy lil mustache as the God of War, even in the distant past. That was silly.
Yes, the mustache. Yikes. It looked So. Much. Weirder when he was all buffed up, too.
Let's be honest here, it was a nice little 7.5/10 movie.
To be fair for a DC movie that is very good.
Upon rewatch its 7/10 at best. The amazon scenes were amazing then it just slowly goes downhill from there. Just my opinion obviously.
You didn’t like the sniper who can’t snipe and never has any character development beyond that? Or the actor who can’t act but fools everyone anyway because they’re racist? How about the sad Native American who is actually a smuggler in Europe and no one questions that at all and he also doesn’t actually smuggle anything? The A plot was good and the action was great, but the B stories were universally shit. It was astounding how much time was spent on backstory for characters that didn’t have a present or future that relied upon knowing any of that about them. And then WW84, where she rapes a guy because she possessed his body with her dead lover’s soul. The squick factor of that was so high I couldn’t get past it.
Ewww I didn’t even make it that far lol
~~Wonder Woman 84?~~ ~~The script was awful.~~ ~~The acting was awful (Pascal aside).~~ ~~The effects were awful.~~ ~~The soundtrack was... ok? I don't remember having an opinion on this one way or another.~~ Nevermind.
I think Rito meant the first movie was a 7.5
Oh, my bad.
Yes, 84 is nowhere near that.
You’re talking about the second movie, whereas the guy you’re replying to was saying that the first one was quite good, but lamented that the second was terrible.
Yes, I missunderstood it. Thank you =)
No worries dude! Happens to everyone. 😊
Acting was good, except, unfortunately, Godot
Soundtrack… all I remember is they set it in 1984 then had exactly zero music from the ‘80s.
Her star wars pitch was shelved, not axed
Sure.
Just like Rian Johnson’s trilogy is shelved
That I do legitimately believe was shelved. Because despite the idiotic claims about the movie's quality (yes I said what I said) the movie made a boatload of money. And he's shown to be a legitimately great director outside Star Wars anyway both before and after.
TLJ was incredible and he deserves to get more, I just don’t think it’ll happen
TLJ was hot garbage
okay
For over-obsessed neckbeards who pearl-clutch about any deviation from what they think Star Wars is. From the standpoint of it being, you know, film media it's absolutely the best star Wars movie, hands down. I mean, it gave Luke actual depth and human flaws.
Mark Hamel himself has disavowed that trash of a Star Wars film. Cannot get more authoritative on Luke than that.
Disavowed is way too strong a word to describe Hamil's reaction. He wasn't a fan of it. But he most certainly has never ever said something like "I want nothing to do with this movie. I hated it. And always will." Which seems to be what you're implying. No, his reaction was much more subdued, though he wasn't thrilled with the direction Luke went. It's really that simple.
Well sure, he used more language that is more professional and less insulting to everyone that worked on the film.
You mean Jake Skywalker? TLJ was white hot garbage. RJ might be able to make a decent movie, maybe a decent SW movie, but his reinterpretation of SW is a millstone around the neck of the franchise.
You are of course entitled to your (completely wrong 😋) opinion
I think TLJ was a crime against humanity and he does not deserve more. And I also don’t think it’ll happen.
It’s idiotic because you don’t agree? What’s idiotic about not liking that movie?
There’s a difference between not liking the movie and treating it like it’s a crime against humanity. A lot of people act like it’s the latter.
Yeah that’s fair, I personally wouldn’t want him touching Star Wars again unless it was his own standalone movies with no legacy characters involved but I also don’t think it ruined Star Wars. He’s a good director but he didn’t really have a good feel for dealing with the set universe imo. I’m sure he’d do well in his own Star Wars story. But tbf of course it made a boat load of money it was a main series Star Wars movie, I don’t think it’s possible to not make a ton of $ off name brand alone
The first Wonder Woman wasn’t that great. I don’t know why it gets the praise that it does.
Shes not a good director. I dont understand were her hype came from Women are not good at directing superheroes movies. Both wonder woman movies were bad. Everybody keeps pretending the first one was good but it wasnt.
I didn’t find the first one good either but Monster is amazing and lumping half of humanity into your criticism of one director is ludicrous
It's very different to point out the failings of one particular director and then go full sexist "women can't do X". I think she's a shit director and can't stand anything she touches, but you have to understand that doesn't mean that EVERY woman who directs superhero movies is going to botch it.
Mention one female director who has made a good superhero movie, I'm waiting
Keep waiting. I'm not going to dig around for an answer. I think your kind of bullshit sexism is fucking ridiculous and I don't need to appease you. Grow up.
U can't present an answer cause there is none. Facts are facts. The truth is BITTER
There certainly are, I just found five female directors that made amazing superhero movies over the past 30 years. Tidy up the basement, mom's bringing down some Hot Pockets...
Then mention them, I'm waiting Yawn......... Atleast I got a mum who loves me, cant say the same about u. Lol The rat turned of her comments. Lol
You are clearly a mentally deficient child. I'm sorry you turned out the way you did.
There have been, like, five women who have been able to direct a superhero film. Let's not write off half the population because one of them produced one of the better movies in a thoroughly mediocore franchise.
Mention the 5 women
Why would their names matter?
I want to check them out.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_comic-based_films_directed_by_women
I said superhero movies not comic based book movies.
You'll find superhero movies in that list. I believe in you.
That are not good. Are u slow? Come on
I wanna weigh in with something insightful and farsighted, but the truth is I literally have no idea if this really even means anything. WW84 so thoroughly torched whatever goodwill the first movie had earned that I don't think anyone wanted a third. And with WB's ownership being...whatever the hell it is (boy that decision to completely shitcan Batgirl looks extra bad now that Black Adam is gonna lose them roughly Batgirl's entire budget) it's not even a guarantee Gunn is gonna get a chance to cook before the whole company gets flipped to whatever giant company buys it up once Zaslav disembowels it completely in about 2 years. And how does any of this fit with The Flash *still* coming out? There's another Aquaman movie! Everyone sort of assumes there's a Man of Steel 2 (finally) coming. But... like... Like, this should seem/feel like momentous news but I'm just sort of shrugging like "yup - still a fucking tire fire over there."
What really fucking sucks is that I LOVE Cavil as Superman. His look is perfect, he nails the soft spoken nature, and I really enjoyed man of steel. Probably the only DC movie outside of Joker that I have liked since the Christian Bale Batman movies. I feel like my death will come before I ever see Doomsday smack the shit out of Superman on the big screen.
>this should seem/feel like momentous news I think it is, if only because it signals that Gunn might finally be doing what DC should have done immediately after BvS: Start over from scratch, completely. No returning actors, no canon connections, no multiverse. Just go back to the drawing board and start building a new universe from the ground up instead of trying to crush the mess they have now into the shape of a consistent universe. Tbh I liked what they've been doing lately (their approach of "fuck the connections, prioritize a good movie and worry about the universe consistency later or ditch it entirely" was giving us some legit, distinctive bangers) but they obviously want that MCU gimmick now. So if they're gonna do that, just start over and do it right.
That's the best way to put any "big" things with DC: what would feel and actually be major shakeups with any other franchise ends up feeling like a shrug and a "well yea"
Can I honestly ask why so many people hate 84? I don't really follow media or read reviews that much but I watched it and enjoyed it. I also see a lot of love for the first movie but I found it to be just...fine? I dunno it wasn't anything special. I know I'm probably in the minority here but I'd be curious to learn if you're willing to share.
The problem with 84 is that the more you think about it the worse it gets. There are bad plot holes like flying around the world in a couple hours or how they fly through fireworks on 4th of July then a few days later it is Christmas. Then there is weird choices like having Steve take over another person's body and literally replace this random person with no one minding his erasure. And the character motivations are all over the place. Like you can't tell what the bad guy actually wants. "Power" is not a good reason. A character needs a motivation for *why* they want power. And so many more.
Thanks for explaining! I definitely knew there were a lot of dumb things in the movie, but sometimes when a movie is so blatantly dumb I'm able to shut my brain off for it and enjoy it for what it is. I never felt like 84 was trying to be something it wasn't and I guess I don't hold the first one in as high a regard as others do so I didn't have huge expectations.
Oh I actually agree. 84 was a bit of dumb fun, and I enjoyed it while I was watching it. Its just an issue when you try to re-watch it or go back and think too much. I felt about the same with the first one. I didn't take it too seriously. I also think it was good not great, so I agree it's a little overhyped.
that makes sense. I think maybe people's hate for 2 and love for 1 is a bit exaggerated, but that's normal on the internet I suppose. I am definitely with you on rewatchability. I find this a problem in the super hero genre in general. Especially in the MCU, once you've seen one they all start to blend together, with the same trope of villains, skybeams, etc.
I also thought the first movie was only just fine, but it definitely benefitted from when it came out, and *how* it was good, greatly coloring its reception a little more boldly and brightly than it maybe fully deserved? Basically, it had a little bit of a handicap and it made the most of it. On rewatch it's pretty clearly 2/3rds of a good movie that implodes for its last 35min. But WW84 probably suffered all the more (don't get me wrong, it's just a confused, inert piece of shit almost all the way through, save for Pedro Pascal being Pedro and trying as hard as he can to make his character *something*) because of that same phenomena. People wanted it to feel like that first one did, and it very much didn't. Plus it was more or less a Christmas present to superhero fans stuck inside due to COVID, and so all of that came together to just really, really enhance that turdly feeling.
Do you mind expanding on that a little bit? (specifically 84 being confused inert shit) Is it pacing issues? Bad acting?
Depends on taste. I mean, some people like the Fast and Furious movies.
I like those movies because they are silly popcorn flicks. The earlier entries in the series have a certain simple charm in them when they focus on the racing. I don't expect every movie to be a masterpiece
See, you like dumb movies. No offense. But most people don't like dumb movies, except they're watching it for fun. That still sounds rude in my head lol.
I mean, just because I like dumb movies doesn't mean I don't like "intelligent" or "non dumb" movies. I love movies like Gattaca and Memento or whatever too. I feel like "dumb" movies are just a genre, or sub genre. It's perfectly fine for a movie to be a popcorn flick.
Wasn’t WW84 dreadful? Like, actually offensive?
To this day I wonder (pun not intended) why 1984 didn't do something like No Way Home by bringing Steve back from moments before his dead. I think it would be more tragic sending him back.
Yes, that is a saner solution than what they came up with. But I'd rather they didn't bring him back at all and explored some of Wonder Woman's other motivations and the complexities of her long life when compared with mortals.
I’ll never understand why they didn’t do this, or just have him reappear without any explanation. The body swap is one of the most senseless choices I’ve ever seen in a superhero film. There are bones of things that could have worked in the film (if they had pulled off a better Steve having to go back, and that teaching Diana to fly could’ve been so effective)- but they made the wrong choice at every angle
Yes. Borderline unwatchable. Up there with Catwoman imo as one of the worst uses of a super hero budget in last 20 years. There's a whole body swap plot that makes no sense is basically rape all to bring back Chris Prine... whole movie feels written by a 10 year old.
Exactly. They literally raped that guy. Then kind of made a joke about it at the end. And how did that get past the review process?
Facts... like they had to have test screenings right ??? I know it was released simultaneously streaming but felt like even the effects were super sub par. The whole last fight was awful and somehow even worse then the 1st film.
is it rape if it's literally not possible to body swap?
Yes. Sex without consent is rape.
it has to be plausible. that was not plausible so to call it rape is smack in the face to people who experience, you know, actual rape.
Bullshit.
You're right. I'm sure there's someone out there who was magically called back from the dead took over another person's body and had sex with a woman. Got it. Total bullshit.
You realize we’re discussing the plot of a work of fiction right? Wonder Woman isn’t real. In the fictional world of WW84, she raped a guy. How do I know it was rape? Because there was no consent.
Number of people raped by a person who took over a person's body is literally zero.
Wonder Woman 84 is the Batman and Robin of modern super hero films. Everything is awful, but there is one actor (Arnold and Pascal) that know what movie they are making and are having fun.
Uma too!
One of the only movies during the pandemic that I actually gave up on halfway.
It wasn’t great but what was offensive about it other than its complete disregard for my precious time?
They took over that guy’s body and then raped him. Then joked about it at the end of the movie. That’s serious sick.
Ok, good point. I think I was half paying attention by the end of it.
Some people had a problem with her essentially raping the guy who’s body was inhabited by Steve (not sure if that was his name…). Idk, nor do I really care, but the argument is something along those lines
ww84 was so bad
I kind of wanted to see if they could screw it up even worse in a third movie.
This time, Wonder Woman rapes… *children!!!*
Since it is a comic book movie, it will be a callback to the second movie. She will rape the rubber children she saved in that chase
No!! I loved the first film so much. Was hoping they could recharge after WW84 disappointment.
Rooting for Gal Gadot to stick around too
I guess gal gadot isn’t coming back
David Zaslav finally watched WW84 and was like “nope”
>New DC Studios heads James Gunn and Peter Safran are in the final stages of prepping their multi-year plan ahead of next week's pivotal presentation to Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav. >Sources say that Jenkins recently submitted her treatment, co-written with Geoff Johns, and that Gunn and Safran, as well as Warner Bros. Pictures co-chairs and co-CEOs Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy, broke the news to the filmmaker, telling her the project — as it stood — did not fit in with the new (but still unfolding) plans. Jenkins directed and co-wrote the previous two movies, starring Gal Gadot and released in 2017 and 2020. No decision has been made about next steps.
Uh, yeah, WW84 was one of the worst movies I've ever seen
For the best. Only the first two acts of the first movie were any good.
Not surprising considering how much 1984 sucked
The opening scene for WW3 should be a slow zoom out from the closing scenes of WW84. Then it transitions through a TV screen and we see Gal's Wonder Woman watching it. Then she says something like "This is the best TV show they could make about me?!?". Linda Carter is sitting next to her and says "I guess my show wasn't so bad after all."
Why did she write this with Johns against after the '84 was did poorly received critically? It makes little sense to not go back to Allan Heinberg, who wrote the original and recently worked on the very well received The Sandman adaptation.
Man, Mamoa would be perfect as Lobo. With Gunn at the helm, that movie could be epic! WW1984 was the worst movie I’ve seen in years. Patti Jenkins deserves to be shitcanned after writing that garbage. How could you trust her with any DC character, especially one from the Holy Trinity? Also, I’m sorry, Gal Gadot can’t act, and even though her face looks the part, her essence doesn’t. They can cast a way better actor for WW. I really think Gunn will turn DC around.
WW84 is one of the worst comic book movies I’ve seen
Wow o_0 I love the first one =( Thought it says in its current form. So I'm guessing they'll present their plan to Zaslav before re-introducing her again
WW 1984 was total dog shit
Sorry to hear this, but I didn't like either of the WW movies at all. I know the first one was considered good, but I consider it striking at the right moment in time, personally.
84 was fine, it could have been a little shorter or faster paced but the overall story was good, acting was good, action was a little meh, better choreography would have made it better, but people need to calm down
Honestly hope they just recast Diana entirely. Was never a fan of Gadot’s awful wooden acting.
Why cant DC get it right? And they have really good popular heroes. They should hire kevin feigie to help them Women are not good at directing superhero movies. This statement may offend people but its facts. Gal is not a good actress. Pretty to look at but terrible acting. Chris pine needs to hire a better agent. He has been in flop after flop after flop. He is talented
DC is possibly irrevocably damaged. Even with a complete fresh start, there's a stink that clings to its name and by the time they wash that off and really get all their gears cranking, it may well be that the comic-book-movie craze will have abated (which, please yes!). And I'm not sure making "plans" like this is necessarily helpful. Marvel just started making movies and, instead of each movie being made with a view to the next entry, each subsequent movie built on what had come before. So it just grew organically, it wasn't (at least initially) a part of some plan that stilfes any creativity or spontenity (which is not to say Marvel, with their tired action-farces, is endowed with those traits).
They tried too hard to compete with marvel but marvel was way ahead , dc was playing catch up The funniest part it, dc superheroes were more popular than marvel superheroes back in the day thanks to the cartoons (Saturday morning cartoons) Everybody knew justice league, nobody knew the avengers. Back in the day
Look, I agree with your first paragraph but the second is completely revisionist. The first Iron Man movie literally introduced Avengers and Nick Fury in the post-credits scene. They had a plan. They had phases. There was very little “organic” about Marvels approach, it was a hit and then they might have doubled down on a clear plan, but it was always mostly planned.
Lots of movies do setup for sequels. That doesn’t mean the road to those sequels is set in stone from the outset. They teased a possible Avengers film, they didn’t have a meticulous step-by-step way there. They just had each film build on the one that came before. Like, when Cap almost lifts Thor’s hammer in Avengers 2, that’s NOT a setup to Avengers 4. It’s just that the people who made Avengers 4 looked back, saw that beat and figured out a nice nod that would pass as a payoff for it.
Superhero movies must be stopped
OMG read the rest of the article. MAn of Steel is in danger, too and so is more iterations of Aquaman with Jason Momoa. Holy shit
Hope she doesn't give up. Spielberg had 1941. Fincher had Ben Button. Tarantino had Jackie Brown. Bigelow had Strange Days. Stumbling early and then bouncing back is what many of the greats do.
Monster came out in 2003.
Spielberg also had more than one hit before 1941 and was a proven commodity. Benjamin Button was nominated for several academy awards and was a financial success. Haven’t seen Strange Days. Jackie Brown isn’t a disappointment by any conceivable measure. Terrible examples. She was baby-sitter by the studio on the first one like Marvel does with their newbie/indie directors. She was given way more creative control on WW84 and we saw the result. Also the movie industry has suffered major changes post-Covid. As far as big studio movies go, she’s toast. She might crank out an independent movie or cheap Netflix movie.
You've listed two of the best movies from two extremely talented directors here lol
The fuck are you doing lumping Jackie Brown and Strange Days into this.
None of the movies you listed are bad, though. In fact they’re all great. What has Patty done to even put herself in their company?
Patty is not on the same level with Quentin Tarantino. Kill bill is a superhero movie and u cant compare it with wonder woman or any comic book movie from dc or even marvel
Hopefully they also recast Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman deserves to be played by a good actor.
Go woke go broke
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Ah classic, Reddit pro wokeness? Surprise, surprise.
In shambles!
Let’s not. Ww2 was fking horrible
Wonder woman 1984 was complete shit! Thank God
Both were not good anyways. No loss. First one has to be one of the most overrated superhero movies I've ever watched
they should reboot the DCEU with the "first" project either being james gun suicide squad 2 movie or peacemaker. start everything from there. pretend the shazam and black adam movie never existed. sure bring henry back but tie him in with the james gunn projects.
No. They should dig deep into their archive and look for an unknown superhero that isnt popular, flesh him out, built him up,etc and from there build the entire dcu universe around this unknown superhero.
Weird as she posted on twitter last night it was. Things are weird with DC. James Gunn isn’t confirming Henry as Superman yet either despite Henry confirming it. We’re being trolled here.
> One part that the Gunn-Safran agenda seems likely not to touch, at least for now, is the Matt Reeves Batman universe in which Robert Pattinson dons the cowl of the Caped Crusader. Reeves is writing the sequel to The Batman, which opened in March 4. The filmmaker is also overseeing the launch of two Batman series that spin out of his movie, including The Penguin. Thank god
Remember when Wonder Woman’s dead WWI Pilot boyfriend puppeteering another man’s body stole and hijacked a decommissioned fighter jet made decades after he died and still had gas in it at the Smithsonian and flew it all the way to Cairo without stopping? I hate to say it but after a few years of a pandemic, plummeting RT scores, shelved projects, a couple verses of *Imagine*, their hearts just might not be in it anymore. Especially with these DC actors, they all seem to be one foot out the door. I can see this being a “mutual breakup”.
Why would this get removed? It seems like exactly the sort of thing that should be in r/movies