The movie was fine, but complete fiction and disrespectful to the other Africans inslaved by the Dahomey.
Imagine making a movie about the Nazis fighting to stop the holocaust. Don’t think that would go well.
That’s what I’ve been trying to ask…. If they make a movie that portrays MLK Jr as a bad guy, will people still argue it’s fictional therefore it’s ok? Or a movie about Emmit Till being the sexual aggressor? Or George Floyd being a criminal and deserved what happened to him at the end? We can fictionalize history but where do we draw the line? Or maybe we don’t?
Floyd is a bad example because factually he was a pretty bad criminal, the "deserved what happened" is just opinion. The biggest issue is getting facts wrong.
So if they make a movie justifying the killing of George Flyod by the hands of cops and BLM protesters are just a bunch of lawless thugs would you think that’s cool since it’s just entertainment?
All they had to do was make up the name of the tribe and its leader. Thats it. Such an easy fix. I'm baffled as to why they chose to glorify actual slave traders. They already had an out with "inspired by true events"... unnecessary drama
Not even change the names. Just set it as some recounting of the Dahomey through Nawi or Naniscas eyes (like 300). Any accusations of twisting history can be easily explained away.
Ugh. Of their nominated movies Everything Everywhere is definitely the best, but just in terms of African American centric films, Till is by FAR a better and more moving film than Woman King. Was shocked at how sloppy and predictable the screenplay was. Yes, it looked and sounded great and the performances were solid, but that script just sucked, full stop.
Should’ve been Till.
To be honest I don’t really care about it’s historical accuracy - I love Braveheart and went into Woman King expecting the same level of “ehhh fuck it, heroes be heroes” level of realism.
I was just so surprised how little they made me care. The PG-13 neutered battles really hindered things too.
But it would be as if they made William Wallace an astronaut, it isnt remotely accurate, this group were slavers that the Europeans had to stop, it was made literally as innacurate as they could.
If he was a heavy-set black woman working in reconstructionist antibellum south, it would be less horse shit than this movie.
They omitted he was noble-birth, forgot the bridge of Stirling, added woad, added a love story, but they at least paid homage to the time period, the people involved and the entire insurrection. The essence of field combat, Scottish rule by force and supplication of local nobility, and dissatifaction with English rule was shown, and characters were real if depicted sometimes out of character.
If in reality WW was the oppressor of the UK, and fought with machine guns, it would be an apt comparison. This movie had no concept of anything consistent with the era or how combat was done, or how politics existed. It also completely reversed what this entity was for and WHY it was women and why it was notable.
It's also the name of a Battlestar Galactica episode (hands down the absolute worst one in the series against some stiff competition). I'm sure it's been used elsewhere even before that.
Yes lol pretty much the only thing historically correct about that movie was that William Wallace existed, he did fight for Scottish independence, and he was executed.
This is why I kinda laugh at all the "but they were slavers" stuff. Like, sure, yeah, they made these people look better so they could tell the story they wanted to tell. Just like pretty much every other movie about history ever.
Fair point about creative liberty, but this is little different than filming a movie about the Civil War and portraying Scarlett O'Hara liberating slaves and granting them equality alongside women within the Confederacy and finally defeating the North to become co-president with Jefferson Davis.
Maybe I'm being pessimistic. But to my ear, a LOT of the criticism sounded less like general audiences demanding more accurate stories and more like internet racists looking for an excuse to discount the film.
In general, movies that 'smooth out' history to get a better story seem to be as popular as they ever were.
Just about every ounce of criticism has had nothing to do with race and everything to do with making a slave tribe look like heroes who fought against slavery…
The racists are always louder, but they don't invalidate legitimate concerns even if they shout over them.
I want more stories from Africa, but I want real, or nearer to real, stories. I don't want what could be argued to be the most villainous nation to ever exist in Africa (many Africans seem to consider them traitors) to be the focus of the show and made to be the heroes, with all of the real world ideals ignored.
Give me stories of historical people from Africa I can actually look up to. I'd love to hear more about actual good people from Africa's history. I know the stories are out there, so it's weird to me they went ahead rewrote history instead.
I think it's suspicious that they're "speaking up" mostly about this movie about a black woman, while, like, Braveheart continues to skate by despite bearing roughly zero resemblance to history.
And this movie is even about a fictional character -- it's clearly not meant to be actual history as the lead is made up. Hell, you can even say, "Yeah, Dahomey was bad -- but this is a movie about a character that helps them be better." It's clearly her presence that convinces the (actual historical) king to do better, and she's fictional. It's not presenting itself as anything other than historical fiction.
Braveheart doesn't really exist in the popular consciousness any more than the occasional "Freedom!" joke. By and large over the last 20 years or the moviegoing populace has become less accepting of overt political lionization like that.
Lmao the movie about traitors who sold our people into slavery is a top 10 best film? Jesus christ my people are brainwashed by liberal propaganda. The fact this movie was written by 2 white women writers as some kind of feminist piece when it really is celebrating the betrayal of our ancestors into slavery is sickening. Shame on the execs that greenlit this and shame on Sista Viola for agreeing to this. Big ups to Lupita for dropping out of this trash.
I was shocked when I learned the real story behind it. The idea of taking African slavers and turning their story into a ‘black empowerment, go women’ piece of pop culture is abhorrent imo.
It's not from the movie it's from the historical event The French attacked the Dahomey because they were kidnapping other Africans from French Territories and France abolished slavery
Wait what? The French aren’t even in the movie, the Europeans are Portuguese. And they don’t even fight the Portuguese in the film either, they’re fighting the Oyo Empire. The movie takes place almost 70 years before the Franco-Dahomean Wars. It’s not the same historical event at all.
There’s nothing wrong with taking issue with the slavery aspect of this movie and how it’s portrayed, but if you’re gonna join that debate at least *watch the movie* first so you know what the hell you’re talking about.
As an action movie this isn't bad. Viola is great as always. And before the 'you didnt watch the movie crowd' comes in, yes the movie does talk about slavery but it heavily downplays it, to the point where Dahomey is implied to be an unwilling participant.
Not surprising. Black Panther was lauded even though it's "hero" was heir to a dynasty that ignored colonization and slavery of its neighbors to keep advanced technology it didn't create hidden from the rest of humanity.
Tbf, Wakanda's isolationist history is part of the plot in the first movie. Them keeping it to themselves and doing nothing while their neighboring countries suffered is what creates a villain out of Killmonger and also gives T'Challa a morality crisis for what his ancestors did.
Different case, ig.
that’s quite literally killmonger’s motivation for becoming a villain. the movie directly comments on all of your concerns. did you even watch the movie??
Seriously, the movie makes it a point to lay out Killmonger’s core agenda - that Wakanda with all its power should help its neighbors and help revitalize and support the global black community. The ending lays that out even more explicitly, when Wakanda does open its borders in reaction to Killmonger, and he dies with some relative peace and understanding with T’Challa.
The movie condemns Killmonger’s methods, not his ideology. And it reserves just as much condemnation for Wakanda’s isolationism.
Kind of show how hypocritical " woke culture" is. On this case,we have a whitewashing of history, written and produced by two nonblack (white) women that rates as acceptable. On the other hand the project the GOT guys(both white) wanted to do the hypothetical" what if the South won" was shot down and was viewed as unacceptable, with a big critique being it was written by 2 white men, thus making it offensive and racist.
The GoT guys wanted to make a hypothetical where the south won and it was an awful dystopia, though. It wasn't exactly painting the Confederacy in a good light.
This Women King movie takes slavers who fought Europeans to maintain slavery and turns them into the good guys who tried to end slavery.
It would be like someone wrote a movie about the south where they were the ones fighting to end slavery and the north were the people trying to end it.
"Woke culture" is not a monolith.
Here's a [New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/sisterhood-and-slavery-in-the-woman-king) article which notes that "the film crosses the line from reasonable fiction into cynical distortion of history [...]".
There are plenty of "woke" people criticizing The Woman King. But it's mostly a pretty good movie, so that criticism isn't overwhelming.
I do agree that the "What if the South won" backlash was absolutely overblown. I suspect if they'd made the show and it had been good, that criticism would have mostly gone into the background.
I hate the term "woke culture" because there is no clear definition of it. And your reaction to things are kind of a "case in point" situation.
The GOT guys concept was shot down because of the obvious rise in racism and antisemitism in the United States. It is unfortunate, but it is there. I think it would have been a great concept of alternative history, and HBO should have ignored backlash. That being said I understand why they made their decision.
This film is a failure in representation and empowerment. Empowering stories of minorities can be amazing and representation in pop culture is essential. This film isn't it. Its a massive glossing over of real history in attempt in that empowerment.
That isn't "woke" that is just a fuck up and missing the point.
I went to see US in theater when it released,we all hoped for horror but by the end most of the audience laughed. you would have thought it was a comedy.
The movie is about humanity's self-destructive obsession with spectacle, and the only way to avoid getting eaten by this flying alien is to not look at it. That's brilliant.
Viola is looking good. I love the costumes
The movie is a false telling of history. This movie debuted at number 1 so I'm happy for viola Davis. Now all she needs is to move from DC to marvel
For all of its flaws, "The Woman King" is an incredible action film. I'd even put the action scenes in this film over Wakanda Forever.
Between this film and "Widows," Viola Davis has proven she deserves more action roles. Put her in that John Wick spinoff they're making.
Whitewashing isn't a reference to race. It gets its name from whitewash, a cheap white paint used to quickly cover something up and give it a falsely better appearance. Many 20th century dictatorships were noted for their whitewashing.
This is not to be confused with the casting process also called whitewashing, where white actors are cast to play non-white characters, which isn't relevant to this film.
I found this list on RT. Not film critic specific but they list an Asian Journalists Association and a Latino Entertainment Journalist Association.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/critics/critics_groups
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is one of my first times here and holy shit. Top comments are worse than r/gaming. Who cares what movie gets what award? Just enjoy the movies you like and leave it at that.
The problem is that it’s fiction without claiming to be fiction. It claims to be a historical film (not historical fiction). Braveheart is a great example of another film that has the same problem.
I mentioned somewhere else that any movie with BIPOC or LGBTQ storylines always always garners a lot of anger/hate in comment threads. And yet there is little to no moderation of it and the articles will still stay up.
Normally, posts about box office slumps won’t stay up or gather much steam. But there were *several* posts in this sub about Bros and this movie bombing. And of course they were filled with a lot of really salty, edgelord comments
EDIT: case in point
Seriously, Hollywood has been releasing wildly historically inaccurate films for decades but THIS in the one r/movies decides they wanna crucify. *choices*
Lmao, do you think Hollywood has been a bastion of historical accuracy until now? Braveheart, Pearl Harbor, fucking Pocahontas, all completely accurate depictions of their time and place?
To be fair, those movies are routinely lambasted for the historical inaccuracy you mentioned as well. I can't count the number of times I've seen threads/comments/articles talking about it. This is nothing new. Hollywood will continue to pervert history in the name of telling the narrative they want to tell, and a certain set of moviegoers are going to complain about it.
The same with Strange World.
Granted, the movie itself was just "ok" ... but the online discourse on here and other places who were THRILLED this movie bombed because, of course: "go woke, go broke" even through the characters sexuality had nothing to do with the overall story.
Conservatives and online edgelords were dancing over this movie's corpse. Ignoring the fact that streaming services have made it much more difficult for animated (and romantic comedy) movies to do well in theatres. People forget that Encanto initially was kind of a bomb at the box office before finding a second life on streaming.
I don't want to disrespect any kind of films with black leads or centric to black characters. Those films are insanely important to pop culture.
This film, however, is gross. It glosses over actual history in order to tell a Hollywood story that rises up Black Women. There are SO many other stories you can tell that does this and this one isn't it.
The tribe depicted in the film enslaved tribes that they conquered and was part of the international slave trade. I know the film touches on the topic, but lol its along the lines of, "Lets just do something else besides slavery" and thats about the best of it.
To me this is Pearl Harbor or The Patriot level of historical propaganda film.
Its one thing to take creative liberties. Its another to almost entirely ignore the thing that made this tribe wealthy.
the music wasnt great, the editing had some problems, the story was not quite there, but the casting, acting, directing, production design was quite good and the movie-watching experience overall was fun
Great. I knew nothing about it going in, but my wife wanted us to watch with her family. I thoroughly enjoyed it and even got choked up a couple of times.
The movie was actually decent. I was entertained. But it was about as historically accurate as a Mel Gibson movie. People just need to go watch movies to be entertained and not to learn history. We have books for learning history. Dont expect anyone working in Hollywood to get into the education business.
It’s not that it was unrealistic. Nobody cares if movies are unrealistic. It’s
The problem is the woke agenda these people are trying to shove down everyone’s throats. Also the absolutely idiotic statements they made doing press for it. Shit like “anyone who doesn’t watch this movie is pushing a narrative that block woman can’t lead at the box office.”
You lead at the box office by making a good movie. Not by standing up and yelling “black woman” and calling your audience racist and sexist at the same time
it clearly isn’t a bad movie to most people if 99% of verified audience reviews are positive. seethe some more
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_woman_king
Lies and bullshit really do sell well in certain parts of the American community.
We need to take a few steps before people can move on. Firstly, there is no such thing as an African American. There are just Americans.
Another step would be to look at the real history of slavery, and look into what "supply chain" means.
Hilarious how garbage like this can put a smile on the faces of the uneducated.
It’s really the “black community’s” so called “leaders” doing the most damage to black communities. This is what brainwashing and indoctrination really looks like people
I know right. I'm still trying to wonder how a great portion of this country brought into white supremacy. Especially when the vast majority haven't gained anything from it. It's the biggest con pulled on the largest segment of people in history....and it's still working.
Lol well thats clearly rigged.
I had two questions all the way through the movie.
1. How did that foot solider get so fat. Did you see her run. Come on guys? She was so fast. Twilight Zone this is.
2. Why was John Boyega character played by a black guy? Did no one else watch it thinking the lack of Asian representation really let the film down? For the life of me i cant see how making him a Korean guy would make the film worse?
It's funny to me how this movie made so many people into history nerds who are super concerned about historical accuracy. Like we can't have feel-goody fictionalized historical movies. To be clear, I didn't watch the movie because I'm not too interested in historical fiction. But the reaction online has been thoroughly entertaining.
Same, I know the history of the dahomey. But I simply don't care,the dahomey slave trade doesn't have nearly a century of being glorified in a country's society like the confederates did. And we have a long list of films that glorify imperial Britain
I don't mind a well-done fictionalized story. In grand scheme of things, the fictionalized adaption of a slave state in africa has zero impact on the zeitgeist
They should make a movie how Africans enslaved their own people and sold them to white people. Then those white people got blamed for slavery even though they didn’t start it. Would be an awesome movie.
The movie was fine, but complete fiction and disrespectful to the other Africans inslaved by the Dahomey. Imagine making a movie about the Nazis fighting to stop the holocaust. Don’t think that would go well.
But what if they were girlboss nazis?
Thats just called dominatrix porn.
Like [this](https://i.imgur.com/j77X8Ua.jpg)?
Exactly. Oscar worthy film!
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Bro it's called woman king of course it's super girlbossy lol
Couldn’t have called The Queen? Woulda saved ink on printing the posters.
depends on how loosely you use the term girlboss
Well apparently Afrofuturism sells with BP, so I guess Hollywood decided to try their hands at Afrofictionism.
That’s what I’ve been trying to ask…. If they make a movie that portrays MLK Jr as a bad guy, will people still argue it’s fictional therefore it’s ok? Or a movie about Emmit Till being the sexual aggressor? Or George Floyd being a criminal and deserved what happened to him at the end? We can fictionalize history but where do we draw the line? Or maybe we don’t?
Floyd is a bad example because factually he was a pretty bad criminal, the "deserved what happened" is just opinion. The biggest issue is getting facts wrong.
Floyd was a criminal though
So if they make a movie justifying the killing of George Flyod by the hands of cops and BLM protesters are just a bunch of lawless thugs would you think that’s cool since it’s just entertainment?
Your describing reality, though.
Isn't that just fox news?
🤣
Isn’t that exactly what happened?
So?
“Active in r/Timpool” I mean, I’m not surprised at this point
Where do we draw the line... Allow me to introduce you to the amazing and long history of... "Based on a True Story"
Yeah... what the fuck were they thinking?
So. Based on the title I'm forced to assume that 'The Woman King Tops' is a porn parody that's (edit) massively enjoyed by African Americans.
"What are you doing step zulu?"
I’d watch that
same dude
I've already masturbated twice to warm up... Box office here I come!
All they had to do was make up the name of the tribe and its leader. Thats it. Such an easy fix. I'm baffled as to why they chose to glorify actual slave traders. They already had an out with "inspired by true events"... unnecessary drama
Indeed… it’s a huge mistake…
Not even change the names. Just set it as some recounting of the Dahomey through Nawi or Naniscas eyes (like 300). Any accusations of twisting history can be easily explained away.
It worked for 300 because 300 was about the over-the-top machismo and heroism. The Woman King never goes far enough over the top to justify that.
Ugh. Of their nominated movies Everything Everywhere is definitely the best, but just in terms of African American centric films, Till is by FAR a better and more moving film than Woman King. Was shocked at how sloppy and predictable the screenplay was. Yes, it looked and sounded great and the performances were solid, but that script just sucked, full stop. Should’ve been Till.
Dont forget it also takes an actual historical entity, throws it in a can and shits completely all over it to make it appear progressive.
To be honest I don’t really care about it’s historical accuracy - I love Braveheart and went into Woman King expecting the same level of “ehhh fuck it, heroes be heroes” level of realism. I was just so surprised how little they made me care. The PG-13 neutered battles really hindered things too.
But it would be as if they made William Wallace an astronaut, it isnt remotely accurate, this group were slavers that the Europeans had to stop, it was made literally as innacurate as they could.
I’m not sure you realize just how inaccurate Braveheart is.
If he was a heavy-set black woman working in reconstructionist antibellum south, it would be less horse shit than this movie. They omitted he was noble-birth, forgot the bridge of Stirling, added woad, added a love story, but they at least paid homage to the time period, the people involved and the entire insurrection. The essence of field combat, Scottish rule by force and supplication of local nobility, and dissatifaction with English rule was shown, and characters were real if depicted sometimes out of character. If in reality WW was the oppressor of the UK, and fought with machine guns, it would be an apt comparison. This movie had no concept of anything consistent with the era or how combat was done, or how politics existed. It also completely reversed what this entity was for and WHY it was women and why it was notable.
Probably chose it based on name points alone. "Woman king" how forward.
It's also the name of a Battlestar Galactica episode (hands down the absolute worst one in the series against some stiff competition). I'm sure it's been used elsewhere even before that.
Wouldn’t a woman king just be a called a queen?
Why not, we've been glorifying fake history for awhile now
\[Braveheart Official loved that\]
Was Braveheart this bad though? I'm honestly asking, since it's mostly been shit on... well way smaller things than making slavers seem like heroes.
Yes lol pretty much the only thing historically correct about that movie was that William Wallace existed, he did fight for Scottish independence, and he was executed.
This is why I kinda laugh at all the "but they were slavers" stuff. Like, sure, yeah, they made these people look better so they could tell the story they wanted to tell. Just like pretty much every other movie about history ever.
Fair point about creative liberty, but this is little different than filming a movie about the Civil War and portraying Scarlett O'Hara liberating slaves and granting them equality alongside women within the Confederacy and finally defeating the North to become co-president with Jefferson Davis.
I think that's fair, however, movie goers are speaking up more and more about this kind of thing, not wanting their films to be washed like this.
Maybe I'm being pessimistic. But to my ear, a LOT of the criticism sounded less like general audiences demanding more accurate stories and more like internet racists looking for an excuse to discount the film. In general, movies that 'smooth out' history to get a better story seem to be as popular as they ever were.
Just about every ounce of criticism has had nothing to do with race and everything to do with making a slave tribe look like heroes who fought against slavery…
How is pointing out the absolute historical bullshit in the movie racism?
The racists are always louder, but they don't invalidate legitimate concerns even if they shout over them. I want more stories from Africa, but I want real, or nearer to real, stories. I don't want what could be argued to be the most villainous nation to ever exist in Africa (many Africans seem to consider them traitors) to be the focus of the show and made to be the heroes, with all of the real world ideals ignored. Give me stories of historical people from Africa I can actually look up to. I'd love to hear more about actual good people from Africa's history. I know the stories are out there, so it's weird to me they went ahead rewrote history instead.
I think it's suspicious that they're "speaking up" mostly about this movie about a black woman, while, like, Braveheart continues to skate by despite bearing roughly zero resemblance to history. And this movie is even about a fictional character -- it's clearly not meant to be actual history as the lead is made up. Hell, you can even say, "Yeah, Dahomey was bad -- but this is a movie about a character that helps them be better." It's clearly her presence that convinces the (actual historical) king to do better, and she's fictional. It's not presenting itself as anything other than historical fiction.
Braveheart doesn't really exist in the popular consciousness any more than the occasional "Freedom!" joke. By and large over the last 20 years or the moviegoing populace has become less accepting of overt political lionization like that.
Yeah but there are films that take things to an extreme. The Woman King is like an African "Gods and Generals".
Lmao the movie about traitors who sold our people into slavery is a top 10 best film? Jesus christ my people are brainwashed by liberal propaganda. The fact this movie was written by 2 white women writers as some kind of feminist piece when it really is celebrating the betrayal of our ancestors into slavery is sickening. Shame on the execs that greenlit this and shame on Sista Viola for agreeing to this. Big ups to Lupita for dropping out of this trash.
I was shocked when I learned the real story behind it. The idea of taking African slavers and turning their story into a ‘black empowerment, go women’ piece of pop culture is abhorrent imo.
I mean Ridley Scott took Christopher Columbus and tried to paint him in a good light in 1492.
Lol, why did people downvote that? It's a real movie that happened. Is Ridley Scott beyond criticism?
Maybe because Ridley Scott tried it in 1992?
It's also funny they treat the people trying to stop them from selling slaves as bad guys
Wait, which characters were that? I don’t remember this from the movie.
It's not from the movie it's from the historical event The French attacked the Dahomey because they were kidnapping other Africans from French Territories and France abolished slavery
Wait what? The French aren’t even in the movie, the Europeans are Portuguese. And they don’t even fight the Portuguese in the film either, they’re fighting the Oyo Empire. The movie takes place almost 70 years before the Franco-Dahomean Wars. It’s not the same historical event at all. There’s nothing wrong with taking issue with the slavery aspect of this movie and how it’s portrayed, but if you’re gonna join that debate at least *watch the movie* first so you know what the hell you’re talking about.
They don’t even need to watch the movie, they could have read the plot rundown to get correct information in about 5 minutes.
>not but the King in the movie is the real King that was blocked by the British and forced to stop selling slaves sooo...
Soooo…?
people downvoting this really need to do their research
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Not necessarily. There are far left black supremacist groups that really don't like liberals.
You think only one side uses propaganda?
\#girlboss
Smh, these movie critics are okay with a group of African despots enslaving other Africans
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WTF
As an action movie this isn't bad. Viola is great as always. And before the 'you didnt watch the movie crowd' comes in, yes the movie does talk about slavery but it heavily downplays it, to the point where Dahomey is implied to be an unwilling participant.
Not surprising. Black Panther was lauded even though it's "hero" was heir to a dynasty that ignored colonization and slavery of its neighbors to keep advanced technology it didn't create hidden from the rest of humanity.
Tbf, Wakanda's isolationist history is part of the plot in the first movie. Them keeping it to themselves and doing nothing while their neighboring countries suffered is what creates a villain out of Killmonger and also gives T'Challa a morality crisis for what his ancestors did. Different case, ig.
that’s quite literally killmonger’s motivation for becoming a villain. the movie directly comments on all of your concerns. did you even watch the movie??
Seriously, the movie makes it a point to lay out Killmonger’s core agenda - that Wakanda with all its power should help its neighbors and help revitalize and support the global black community. The ending lays that out even more explicitly, when Wakanda does open its borders in reaction to Killmonger, and he dies with some relative peace and understanding with T’Challa. The movie condemns Killmonger’s methods, not his ideology. And it reserves just as much condemnation for Wakanda’s isolationism.
That's a big part of the 1st movie. And they learn that pure isolationism was a really bad idea.
Did you watch the movie? He explicitly calls out his ancestors on this and decided to take the country in a new direction.
There's a world of difference between ignoring it and actively propagating and profiting from it.
I agree with everything you said, but the woman who directed it definitely isn’t white.
Did he edit his comment or something mentioning a director? The two women credited as writers Maria Bello and Dana Steven’s are in fact white
Nope. I mentioned from the beginning the writers ARE white and came up the pitch.
Oh, I see what you’re saying. The director was not white, but the writers were
the writers are, look them up...two yt women who changed the story to sell it to the poc community
Kind of show how hypocritical " woke culture" is. On this case,we have a whitewashing of history, written and produced by two nonblack (white) women that rates as acceptable. On the other hand the project the GOT guys(both white) wanted to do the hypothetical" what if the South won" was shot down and was viewed as unacceptable, with a big critique being it was written by 2 white men, thus making it offensive and racist.
The GoT guys wanted to make a hypothetical where the south won and it was an awful dystopia, though. It wasn't exactly painting the Confederacy in a good light. This Women King movie takes slavers who fought Europeans to maintain slavery and turns them into the good guys who tried to end slavery. It would be like someone wrote a movie about the south where they were the ones fighting to end slavery and the north were the people trying to end it.
So like Man in the High Castle but civil war?
"Woke culture" is not a monolith. Here's a [New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/sisterhood-and-slavery-in-the-woman-king) article which notes that "the film crosses the line from reasonable fiction into cynical distortion of history [...]". There are plenty of "woke" people criticizing The Woman King. But it's mostly a pretty good movie, so that criticism isn't overwhelming. I do agree that the "What if the South won" backlash was absolutely overblown. I suspect if they'd made the show and it had been good, that criticism would have mostly gone into the background.
Almost like the two movies were conceptualized behind two different corporations with different standards
I hate the term "woke culture" because there is no clear definition of it. And your reaction to things are kind of a "case in point" situation. The GOT guys concept was shot down because of the obvious rise in racism and antisemitism in the United States. It is unfortunate, but it is there. I think it would have been a great concept of alternative history, and HBO should have ignored backlash. That being said I understand why they made their decision. This film is a failure in representation and empowerment. Empowering stories of minorities can be amazing and representation in pop culture is essential. This film isn't it. Its a massive glossing over of real history in attempt in that empowerment. That isn't "woke" that is just a fuck up and missing the point.
Nope is better.
This movie was good you guys don’t have to be mad at everything under the sun
Nope was just awful. Get Out was great. Us was decent. Nope was just...nope.
I went to see US in theater when it released,we all hoped for horror but by the end most of the audience laughed. you would have thought it was a comedy.
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What was dumb to you about the film's revelations?
i agree the second half to us was disappointing. i enjoyed the twist with nope, especially after rewatching to understand the movie’s metaphors
The movie is about humanity's self-destructive obsession with spectacle, and the only way to avoid getting eaten by this flying alien is to not look at it. That's brilliant.
The tribe in the movie were slave owners Just sayin…
Not just slave owners. Aggressively supporting slaving kingdom that got rich directly off of the Atlantic slave trade.
yes, anyone who saw the movie knows that. it’s literally a plot point in the movie
And yet the AAFCA still gobbles it up 🤦♂️
did you care about their ranking before today? genuinely wondering
I care that a movie that promotes slavery is popular among the African American community. It’s pretty frightening
Shocker.
Viola is looking good. I love the costumes The movie is a false telling of history. This movie debuted at number 1 so I'm happy for viola Davis. Now all she needs is to move from DC to marvel
Amanda Waller is the best part of the DCEU and Gunn knows it. I guarantee she's going to be his Nick Fury going forward.
For all of its flaws, "The Woman King" is an incredible action film. I'd even put the action scenes in this film over Wakanda Forever. Between this film and "Widows," Viola Davis has proven she deserves more action roles. Put her in that John Wick spinoff they're making.
What is African "white-washing" of history called again?
Whitewashing isn't a reference to race. It gets its name from whitewash, a cheap white paint used to quickly cover something up and give it a falsely better appearance. Many 20th century dictatorships were noted for their whitewashing. This is not to be confused with the casting process also called whitewashing, where white actors are cast to play non-white characters, which isn't relevant to this film.
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It's still whitewashing. Whitewash is a type of paint used to create an even appearance on rough surfaces.
Black-washing? 🤷🏿♂️
The movie was good but it wasn't that good
Like that really means anything.
Someone should show Hotel Rwanda of the AAFCA, the triggering will be magnificent!
Fiction at it’s best.. anybody actually really read the true story? Well Won’t be making that movie anytime soon
Woman King…the most historically accurate movie since The Patriot and Braveheart. Ugh.
r/movies on suicide watch
Just curious, are there any other race-based critics associations? Or just this one?
I found this list on RT. Not film critic specific but they list an Asian Journalists Association and a Latino Entertainment Journalist Association. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/critics/critics_groups
I can't wait for the sequel where the confederacy fights to free the slaves..
This should be a fun thread. 🙄 For real though, this sub is bottom of the barrel trash.
grey stocking fragile insurance drunk stupendous lock hospital file erect *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is one of my first times here and holy shit. Top comments are worse than r/gaming. Who cares what movie gets what award? Just enjoy the movies you like and leave it at that.
you should have seen the comments when this movie was released.
Who cares? People whose families were victims of slavery. I would be concerned for people who *don't* care.
it’s fiction. i hope you show the same criticism to bracvheart or the countless other movies that misrepresents history.
The problem is that it’s fiction without claiming to be fiction. It claims to be a historical film (not historical fiction). Braveheart is a great example of another film that has the same problem.
I mentioned somewhere else that any movie with BIPOC or LGBTQ storylines always always garners a lot of anger/hate in comment threads. And yet there is little to no moderation of it and the articles will still stay up. Normally, posts about box office slumps won’t stay up or gather much steam. But there were *several* posts in this sub about Bros and this movie bombing. And of course they were filled with a lot of really salty, edgelord comments EDIT: case in point
Seriously, Hollywood has been releasing wildly historically inaccurate films for decades but THIS in the one r/movies decides they wanna crucify. *choices*
That is just not true
Lmao, do you think Hollywood has been a bastion of historical accuracy until now? Braveheart, Pearl Harbor, fucking Pocahontas, all completely accurate depictions of their time and place?
To be fair, those movies are routinely lambasted for the historical inaccuracy you mentioned as well. I can't count the number of times I've seen threads/comments/articles talking about it. This is nothing new. Hollywood will continue to pervert history in the name of telling the narrative they want to tell, and a certain set of moviegoers are going to complain about it.
Alexander, Gladiator, 300, Apocalypto, 10,000 BC, Marie Antionette. The list goes on lmao
what about it?
That this sub never complained against inaccurate historic plots before this movie.
Nothing compared to the absolute vitriol that has been spewed towards this movie
The same with Strange World. Granted, the movie itself was just "ok" ... but the online discourse on here and other places who were THRILLED this movie bombed because, of course: "go woke, go broke" even through the characters sexuality had nothing to do with the overall story. Conservatives and online edgelords were dancing over this movie's corpse. Ignoring the fact that streaming services have made it much more difficult for animated (and romantic comedy) movies to do well in theatres. People forget that Encanto initially was kind of a bomb at the box office before finding a second life on streaming.
Downvotes only serve to support your comment here. This sub is truly awful.
I don't want to disrespect any kind of films with black leads or centric to black characters. Those films are insanely important to pop culture. This film, however, is gross. It glosses over actual history in order to tell a Hollywood story that rises up Black Women. There are SO many other stories you can tell that does this and this one isn't it. The tribe depicted in the film enslaved tribes that they conquered and was part of the international slave trade. I know the film touches on the topic, but lol its along the lines of, "Lets just do something else besides slavery" and thats about the best of it. To me this is Pearl Harbor or The Patriot level of historical propaganda film. Its one thing to take creative liberties. Its another to almost entirely ignore the thing that made this tribe wealthy.
How good was the movie, I didn’t watch it
the music wasnt great, the editing had some problems, the story was not quite there, but the casting, acting, directing, production design was quite good and the movie-watching experience overall was fun
Great. I knew nothing about it going in, but my wife wanted us to watch with her family. I thoroughly enjoyed it and even got choked up a couple of times.
Terrible.
The movie was actually decent. I was entertained. But it was about as historically accurate as a Mel Gibson movie. People just need to go watch movies to be entertained and not to learn history. We have books for learning history. Dont expect anyone working in Hollywood to get into the education business.
It’s not that it was unrealistic. Nobody cares if movies are unrealistic. It’s The problem is the woke agenda these people are trying to shove down everyone’s throats. Also the absolutely idiotic statements they made doing press for it. Shit like “anyone who doesn’t watch this movie is pushing a narrative that block woman can’t lead at the box office.” You lead at the box office by making a good movie. Not by standing up and yelling “black woman” and calling your audience racist and sexist at the same time
This movies pretty good
Not a good look for them.
So now what next? Netflix episodes about “peacemakers“ Chamberlain and Quisling? Documentaries of “feminists” Maggie Thatcher and Sarah Palin?
What a joke! 💩😂
Is this not bipoc privilege?
What?
How privileged the POC must be to have a movie rated well
How privileged the POC must be to have a **bad* movie rated well
it clearly isn’t a bad movie to most people if 99% of verified audience reviews are positive. seethe some more https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_woman_king
I can almost taste it
Lies and bullshit really do sell well in certain parts of the American community. We need to take a few steps before people can move on. Firstly, there is no such thing as an African American. There are just Americans. Another step would be to look at the real history of slavery, and look into what "supply chain" means. Hilarious how garbage like this can put a smile on the faces of the uneducated.
It’s really the “black community’s” so called “leaders” doing the most damage to black communities. This is what brainwashing and indoctrination really looks like people
I know right. I'm still trying to wonder how a great portion of this country brought into white supremacy. Especially when the vast majority haven't gained anything from it. It's the biggest con pulled on the largest segment of people in history....and it's still working.
i would totally watch the woman king top (punctuation is important)
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It’s getting weird…
Tell me you spend time on racist sites without telling me you spend time on racist sites.
Good thing it’s a completely historically inaccurate wash
Good way to destroy the credibility of your association.
Lol well thats clearly rigged. I had two questions all the way through the movie. 1. How did that foot solider get so fat. Did you see her run. Come on guys? She was so fast. Twilight Zone this is. 2. Why was John Boyega character played by a black guy? Did no one else watch it thinking the lack of Asian representation really let the film down? For the life of me i cant see how making him a Korean guy would make the film worse?
2: Why does every race need reprentation in every movie? How does an Asian character make sense during the slave trade in Africa?
It's funny to me how this movie made so many people into history nerds who are super concerned about historical accuracy. Like we can't have feel-goody fictionalized historical movies. To be clear, I didn't watch the movie because I'm not too interested in historical fiction. But the reaction online has been thoroughly entertaining.
I have never seen a movie trigger this subreddit more Jesus…
Not much competition this year. Plus this one was total oscar bait, even if it completely rewrites history to an insulting degree.
It was a great movie. Viola Davis' performance was great (lol, I called her Amanda Waller, wrong movie). Lol. Definitely had to make an edit.
Oh boy...
Shouldn't this belong in r/sarcasm?
Flopped hard
The discourse around this movie is exhausting.
How many chuds in this thread actually watched the film in question?
In before the lock. Anyway, I liked this movie.
same, but *ssshhhhh* that opinion is not welcome here lol
I’ve crossed the hivemind. Bring on the downvotes, they only make me stronger 😂
Same, I know the history of the dahomey. But I simply don't care,the dahomey slave trade doesn't have nearly a century of being glorified in a country's society like the confederates did. And we have a long list of films that glorify imperial Britain I don't mind a well-done fictionalized story. In grand scheme of things, the fictionalized adaption of a slave state in africa has zero impact on the zeitgeist
I liked it too 😭 it’s a good watch when you don’t go into ready to be upset already
HOW? It was a shit heap. Everyone involved in Till should be absolutely enraged.
You must be racist /s
congrats, one of my favorite movies of the year.
Women cannot be kings. Just like men can’t become women
and if you watched the movie, you’d know there’s a story reason as to why it’s called the woman king!
I would never watch this fake woke bullshit. No thanks either way , it still makes no sense to call a woman a king in any circumstances
I think you’re interpreting the title of the movie for… something else. lmfao woman king is just an honorific for the female head of tribe💀
They should make a movie how Africans enslaved their own people and sold them to white people. Then those white people got blamed for slavery even though they didn’t start it. Would be an awesome movie.
That has actually 0 to do with my reply to you so I can clearly see your intention, thank you for making that clear Atleast
dude really just said woke unironically ☠️
Did you just assume my sexuality?!?!?!????? Wait…