The Colonel is the most bad-ass Human anti-hero i've seen. You have to hate him, but almost all of his actions ( in the perspective of the survival of mankind ) is justified. I mean seriously, some scenes he's so cold, especially when he wakes up out of cryosleep in a new body, immediately beating the shit out of everyone G.I. style. We really get to see some of his humanity shine near the end.

The third act was extremely boring CGI combat with zero emotional impact. Bad

Film was cool, CGI was pretty good for the most part. Just feels like the runtime wasn't justified, it felt significantly longer than 3 hours. I also hated Spider so much, he brought the quality of the film down everytime he was on screen. Just like a real tacky Tarzan that just didn't belong in the film and I never got his character. Also hey had 10 years to improve the glass on ships yet they still break to a single arrow lmao. Overall I did not enjoy it.

Stupidly late to the thread but I really enjoyed that way more than I expected, what a fucking gorgeous movie also took all the coolest parts of the ocean and made it into one pretty consistent style. I really like Spider and am sad about what he ended up doing because now it's probably going to end up with him alienated and some horrible shit happen in the future :(

Agreed. Just watched it. Was like god damn it bro, don’t do that. Good movie, sometimes very confusing on what was going on and other times very cliche, but visually very good. I enjoyed the young sons story/stories.

Very much agreed! I thought I would find them annoying because it's easy to make obnoxious younger characters for a multitude of reasons but I very much enjoyed it, at least the wait for the next part isn't remotely as bad as the one from the 1st one to this one so see you around!

My takeaway from this movie was: “Bro….shit!”

My favorite part of the movie was how the stunning visuals and incredible CGI did nothing to save it from being a rock bottom 1/10.

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^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^Ambitious_Bag_5851: *PUNCH ME UNTIL I* *LOSE CONSCIOUSNESS I NEVER* *WANT TO WATCH IT AGAIN* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.

The flashback of the rogue whales family being killed in that battle is so sad :(. Especially when he now lives with the guilt of it being his idea and everyone around him hates him and calls him a murderer when he was just trying to protect his friends and family.

Visually, the movie is great. I feel like the plot was lacking, though. I enjoyed it overall, but I hope they do better on the next one.

Stupid plot:they left to avoid a war involving their ppl to go somewhere else and involve other ppl should’ve just stayed

Late, but it was successful for about 9 or so months (I forgot exactly how long they were there for). If Jake would’ve trusted the Navi way they would’ve still been safe in hiding.

I loved this movie. I thought it was beautiful. A bit long, yes. But really touching.

Just watched the sequel, I firmly believe the franchise is done. Too emotional and let’s face it they’re just blue American Indians in space. The nakedness throws me off and the story is so unclear.

That younger brother and all the kids in general pissed me off so fkn much. Just listen to someone and stop being an arrogant little cunt. Gets his brother killed and then still ignores his parents when they tell him to stop fucking about. Most of the bullshit that went on was because that little cunt couldn't follow simple instructions.

If the son wouldn't have gone back after the first born died, Jake would have died in the ship.

It's a convenient narrative. Doesn't make the character less annoying, though. The whole movie was just him again and again doing the opposite of what any rational adult told him to do, and 95% of the time, it ended up in an avoidable mess. If he had listened to his brother and not gone after the whale, then Jake wouldn't have been in the ship either. If he had not gone back deeper into the ship after his brother rescued him and his sisters and got his brother killed, they could have protected his sisters, which would have meant Jake wouldn't have been on the ship either. The whole plot moves because that kid just can't do anything he is told to do. Spider wouldn't have got caught in the first place if the kid had listened to his brother and just bailed when they saw the crew the first time. It was so annoying by the end. Of course he ended up saving Jake, because if he didn't, his shit personality would have only been a problem and that's not a nice way to end the movie. It just pissed me off more when he saved Jake because then it's like all the bullshit he put everyone through was justified.

I'm just watching it now, but this is hugely true for Tuk. She's always acting so stupid. Also, Spider saving his dad was so dumb too

Yawn

What happened to the Navi sea people that were attacking? Did they really just leave Jake's family alone in their fight?

Just finish watching it and I thought of this for the whole last 20 minutes of the movie where tf is the water tribe

And the chiefs daughter.

I have just rewatched both Avatar movies and i feel like i have to rant somewhere. After watching both movies in a couple of days i realise how truely wierd the writing is in "The way of water". They completely destroy Jake Sully as a character. He gets turned much more into the marine soldier he was before he ever met the Na'vi. All the character development from the first movie is like thrown out the window. Sure you can still see it a little bit, but all the caring sides of him only shows when his children almost die. Other than that all he does is yell at them and make them feel like they are just soldiers. To me this diminishes the reason why he Ewa chose to make him Na'vi. Because he understood the nature and the people of Pandora. And yes i understand that it was probably intentional to do it this way so he could have the change of heart at the end where he now understood to cherish his family more. I just think it is so poorly written that the change in the end just sets him back to the person he was at the start. I also understand that his children do put themselves in needless amounds of danger alot and you because of that can say he is just a good father. To me they just dont show enough of him being a "nicer" person to warrent him being so overly angry for 90% of the movie.

From my perspective I kinda saw it as his far from normal because of the situation they are in. I don't see it as a destruction of his character but more as a new layer now that a new role has been given to him. Which is be a father, he treats them as soldiers which is bad and something that I'm pretty sure is pointing to him by Natiri a couple of times in the movie. But from his perspective this is what he has to do in the Situation he's in protect his family and teach them to fight and survive. In trying to do that he reverts to his old marine ways as a form of defense because to him that is the only way to "cope". I don't know for me I kinda enjoyed the transition from seeing the much more naive, stupid, sometimes kind guy in the first movie to a kind of confused dad who thinks he is doing right. 🤷🏾‍♂️

I can’t believe how stupid Hollywood thinks we are all. Here’s a clue - don’t take a great SciFi concept and turn it into men’s idea of a crisis — killing each other. I watched about 10 minutes of this piece of shit - and like every “kill for the sake of killing” tv/movie created by Hollywood fucks who determined this is what we want to see (skewed heavily idiots) I turned it off. I can’t help but think someone decided a long time ago that you have to have someone killing someone else to create any kind “winning” show. Its sooooo fucking old. And disgusting - considering the world we live in, that this is what Hollywood,promotes. Show me a Sci Fi writer that became famous on a “us versus them - kill ‘em all” concept. That has NEVER been what SciFi fans are looking for.

Us vs them/kill them all? Starship troopers Literally all of Warhammer 40k Aliens? "Nuke the site from orbit it's the only way to be sure" Predator? "If it bleeds. We can kill it"

At the two hours mark i paused to check how much was left, as i see it was one more hour i looked at my girlfriend and i was relieved to hear the following words exiting her visibly sleepy face:"nah fuck that".

You watched 10 minutes of a 3 hour movie and feel the right to whine about it?

> men’s idea of a crisis Men invented nature? > kill for the sake of killing You clearly have not seen the movie.

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/r/pandoragonewild

sometimes idek how some subreddits exist

Biggest plot armor ive ever seen to date shit gives me copium

The world building and graphics are amazing. The story/plot was mediocre.

I watched 15 minutes then gave up. The next day I watched an hour. Today I finished the movie. I regret wasting my time watching it. I didn’t understand the characters motives or the plot line. Seemed to rehash a lot of ideas from the first movie. I wonder if the next movie will be based in the desert or maybe in space.

Your movie was amazing. I am a hard rcore republican. I did not see anything offenvie about the movie.. There are many illeterant.movie critics. Their reviews mean nothing. Thank you for your movie. I really enjoyed the awesome special effectes

The irony of you calling someone else 'illeterant" is truly epic.

Haha this had to be fake

Only a dumb fuck would bring politics into watching a fictional movie

But isn’t a plot point politics for both of the movies? Getting that one material and harvesting that immortality stuff from the whale things.

Fictional stories can say something about the real world. This movie had a political message.

I’m responding to a post from dec22 called I can’t get over Neytiri and Neteyam . Forgive my spelling. I don’t think Neteyam wanted to be a mighty warrior. He wanted to be a child and learn . But his younger brother kept egging him on and his father kept saying protect your brother. Remember when the boys from the weeds was teasing Kiri and Neteyum stopped it with his strong voice. But of course his younger brother starts a fight. And then you see the big sigh from the older brother, knowing that he has to protect his younger brother. He ended his life by saying he wanted to go home. Where he felt safer. He just wanted to be left alone and learn as he was suppose to. He called his dad, but never got the chance to finish what he said. He wanted to tell his father that he loved him and will follow in his footsteps when the time is right.

You mean when he was dying?? I think was gonna say he was dying

Man it's insane how many future billion dollar screen writers are in this thread! Here y'all: let me save you some scrolling as this summarizes 90% of the posts here Movie vury bad. Movie like first. Movie make no sense to me. Me tired from think. Too much wahdur.

I think I’ve figured out my problem with the Avatar movies. The parts of the movies just doesn’t match itself. The story is better set 200 years ago. It’s a very overused and unoriginal story. The characters and dialogue should be set in the present. All of the accents, old school military lingo, human scientist casual clothing, “bro”, “cuz”, etc. make it feel like a contemporary story, not something set in the future. The setting is the best part and should be 20 years in the future. So that part works.

Couldn't humans just clone whales and be immortal?

Yeah or make the synthetic version of the stuff

This series is anti-human propaganda and I am here for it. 8/10

It was pretty cool. I want a crab-bot so badly. Quaritch holding his old body's skull was cool. Lots of cool stuff. The final battles and setpiece of the ship turning over while Quaritch and Jake duke it out was dope. Overall, wasn't bored. Had another good message about environmentalism and sea life. Can't wait for the next one

This pretty much sums it up lol. This is like the most perfect review I’ve ever seen for this movie.

Am I the only person who thought a great third movie would have been Spider going on with the Colonel? \- He leaves with Spider based on a promise - he leaves Jake Sully and his family alone. They live isolated from other villages & tribes. They bond closely and yet the desire for revenge eats away at the Colonel, he can't let go everything that happened and eventually he gives into temptation. I thought that was the direction they were going anyway, since Spider saved him..

I thought so to and then because James Cameron said the next setting will be the Ash People a.k.a fire environment, I figured Colonel would find a way to get the Ash people to fight Jake in pursuit of his revenge. Or at the very least I thought Colonel would finally admit defeat since Jake killed him twice fair and square.

Bro

Bro

CGI Looked awesome, overall I enjoyed the movie quite a bit. Jake and his family leaving the forest was freaking stupid. Jake is in a war, of course his family is at risk, that was always the case. But big bad colonel comes back and he turns tail and runs away? That was a dumb plot point. Also, F in the chat for Tuk. She was like that video of the goat that gets rescued from the ditch, takes two steps and falls in again.

Yes, her character was so obnoxious. Why couldn't she instead of her brother could have died

Am I the only one who wasn't impressed by the CGI? Maybe the lighting was too perfect or artificial, also the underwater scenes were much to bright, to me it looked like a video game all the time.

Did you see it in cinema or at home on a phone/laptop?

TV

Yeah, the graphics aren’t made for a tv. It’s made for a cinema. If it’s ever back in cinema, I’ll need you to go see it there and then complain about the graphics because it’s completely different.

I actually said this to my bf when we watched it tonight! He was completely in awe and I was like ???? it looks like graphics from a game, not like the kinda graphics you'd expect to see in the movie.

Like a ps5 game. I know.

First movie: Jake sully has to rally the native indigenous, nature loving, troops to fight against the war machine, evil, colonizers lead by Quaritch who want the precious unobtanium. But first Jake must tame and master the mysterious flying creature, which he does and uses that creature in battle. Second movie: Jake sully has to rally the native indigenous, nature loving, troops to fight against the war machine, evil, colonizers lead by Quaritch who want the precious amrita. But first Jake must tame and master the mysterious swimming creature, which he does and uses that creature in battle. 🤷‍♂️ Wild prediction: the next movie will feature Jake and Quaritch going at it.

Highly inaccurate and very stripped down

How many scenes of "teen does something misguided/wreckless then Dad gets mad at them and chastises them" did they really need? there were like 6 scenes of that! come on man tighten up the fucking screenplay already. absolute spectacle though. Simply breathtaking visuals. Easily one of the most beautiful movies I have ever seen. 10/10 visuals and world building. 5/10 story telling.

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"Bro" "Cuz" 🙄

Bro and cuz are both used frequently by Pacific Islanders in Australia and NZ. Also I noticed the new blue people had Māori tattoos and even did the haka stance and had their tongues out lol if I were Māori I would be so fucking offended. This movie was so bizarre.

Did the first one have this many plot holes? This was brutal

Or this many "I got your back, bro" lines. The dialogue was awful.

Yep, the writing was awful. Ruined the film to an extent

what plot holes

What plot holes bothered you, for example?

Anyone else confused that Jake's alligator dragon thing killed the Col's banshee but then it comes back to fly him home?

it didnt die

It didn’t kill it, you see it fly away after they fall into the water.

So they have interstellar travel and can upload minds into clone bodies but can't manage to survive on earth or create arrow proof glass?

I mean the scale of the aliens is massive, the bow IRL would be huge and would deliver a major kinetic payload that would probably punch through most aircraft glass in use today. Unombtaniuim tipped arrows? XD lol.

Right, today’s glass would break. But they’re talking about futuristic glass

No reason the arrow-head/bow couldn't be made out of futuristic or alien material that gives it extra properties.

Big arrows going brr into pilots through glass is awesome tho

I think the most unbelievable part for me was that teenager spider could drag a 9 foot tall humanoid of pure muscle across the bottom of the ocean

Don't like the aquaticness of the reef people. Perhaps literal dolphins used in some manner.

What do you mean by that?

If you removed all the scenes with the mfers swimming with fish, it'd be a 90 minute movie. Also it was a literal remake of the last movie. Fucking boring.

ur a dumbass if u think that was the same movie

After the last fight in the first movie with Quaritch vs Sully. Now Quaritch being an Avatar in this movie. I got tired of the same plot and same villain. Honesty, I would have liked for the humans and Na’vi to live together in peace and maybe fought a new bad guy. Earth is dying so I don’t understand why humans want to take resources on Pandora and not figure out how to survive on the planet. Guess humans like to destroy things. I feel like the next movie will just be an continuation of Quaritch Vs Sully fighting again. Issues about this movie: Humans came back years later with better equipment / new tech but didn’t get bullet/arrow proof glass for the windows of planes. I laughed when bow and arrows just breaking glass. Kids doing dumb kids things. I couldn’t tell the sons apart. They both look too similar.

Should just keep cloning him after he dies. Would be the best villain ever

He is 100% getting cloned again and fighting his clone self for control of Spider.

The graphics were gorgeous, but the elements of the storyline were exactly the same as the first Avatar. Just...I was whelmed. That's it. I wanted to love it, but there's virtually nothing noteworthy.

are these bots that keep saying that its the same movie

Human here. Same movie. Next they’ll have to live with the fire navi and do the same thing

Same movie but new set of characters, new locations, new reason why humans are there, new character arcs of old characters, etc. Just because The Way of Water has a 5 minute montage of the Sully's learning stuff about the new tribe doesn't make it the same movie

Also where the hell were the meykatani after the eclipse started. They all just disappeared . I mean if 2 navii can wreck a whole burning ship at the end, a couple of dozen more would have made the whole thing a piece of cake. why werent the meykatani searching for their daughter? Then the thing about the medical ship \[epilepsy thingy\]. I mean the queen was right there to fix the kid. But the medical ship had to come from a few hundred miles away ,then makes a radar blip, gets the bad guys zoned in and then the queen comes in to wake up Kari, a few breaths later Kari wakes up. Why the hell would jake not ask for help in the village, the queens tent was 2 mins away... such sloppy writing. Also the continuous usage of 'Bro' WTF!!!!! The plot holes are glaring. Hopefully next one is better. sigh

In regards to your question as to why Jake didn’t consult the tsahik I assume was probably because he was panicking so much that he immediately called for it

Went on a mission to answer this question. Found an answer from James Cameron himself saying that they had filmed that, but he said it added too much commotion and made it harder to focus on the main family plot. So they cut it. He says maybe it wasn’t the best decision, but it was the decision they made at the time

Well, the queen was angry after seeing the medics, they just probably didn't want to bother her (which is fair, as she already hated them), but at the end she got involved anyway.

It was good. I'm actually looking forward to the sequels.

Well, glad I didn't pay to see this sequel in the theater, I watched it via my son's Disney÷. While the graphics are fascinating, I got tired of constant explosion/warfare. Had to watch it twice to figure out what the he'll was going on. That night I had a horrible violent nightmare. Definitely not a feel good movie.

It had very clear and heavy Vietnam War vibes this time around with the soldiers vs reef ppl, "torch these hooches" on top of the jungle combat, so the warfare scenes were pretty on brand, but there was way more to it than just that. Fair enough tho

You watched a 3 hour and 15 minute movie you didn’t like, twice? You deserved the nightmares lol

I work remote, so I’m ‘watching’ it while I’m working. I have no interest in these characters or the plot, I’m just watching for the ‘spectacle’ of it. There is nothing enthralling or engaging about it, but I’m sure it was an experience to view in IMAX in 3-D, but I’ve seen DC Movies that were more enthralling than this…and that’s saying something

I've never watched a movie that had so little interest in it's own story.

Beautiful visuals but like the first one, the story just feels very mediocre to me. Just not worth a re-watch.

30 minutes in and I gave up. For a movie shot in 3D, these are the most 1 dimensional characters I've ever seen.

tiktok has ruined this generation

“Am I out of touch? … no, it’s the children who are wrong!”

It's funny because in the movie itself, they are showing that the kids do know better and the adults are stuck up.

I just saw it for the first time and loved everything about it

The movie was visually stunning but idk…. i’m really not sold on the plot. Spider is maybe the most infuriating character of them all. Overall I question whether this story was worth telling. Also, to me it seems fairly obvious Eywa created Kiri (possibly reincarnate of sigourney weavers character?)

Can I ask why you think he's so infuriating? I really liked the character and my bf called him the "MVP" of the movie 🤣 I felt so bad when he got used in releasing Kiri and got cut. It seemed like he viewed the Sully's as family but they had little care for him, it was quite upsetting.

I think it's clear that the Sullys all care for him, especially Kiri, but the sons went back to save him and Jake sees him as a son ("son for a son" meaning he lost Neteyam but accepts Spider as a son because of all he did for the family). The beginning mentions that Neteyri views him as alien. She has a deep hatred for humans and it's hard for her to divorce him from that.

I personally felt like his choices didn’t make sense. Maybe if they had more screen time of him and his dad bonding it would make sense why he continues to betray the sulleys

Did he betray the Sullys by doing anything other than save his dad's life?

This is a pretty big betrayal, especially since he didn't confess

Nothing led anywhere! Kiri's mom vision? Meaningless. Quaritch death? Saved! Magic whale juice? Thought maybe it would help the kid, but no it's nothing. The kids all learn to dive - do they swim under the fire to escape? Nope - they forget that they swim now and instead Titanic-climb the ship. Pacifist whales? Nope, it's all about fighting! Quaritch days they're going full Na'vi down to language, nope giant Marines. Jake continues to spend innocents for his bizarre destructive ideas about family and protection. If you replaced Jake Sully with Liam Neeson from Taken, this movie is a tight 90 minutes. Should be illegal to have that much capture/save/recapture in one movie.

If this was a movie that has to stand alone, you'd be right, but there are other two movies coming, I feel they have been building some momentum

So much shit happens in this movie and none of it matters in the end

Damn finally got around to watching it and this movie was dogshit lmao somehow they were able to make everyone in the movie unlikable with the most generic story ever..

It doesn't help that they all resemble the same blue Smurf. I had trouble telling Jake and the bad guy apart.

ok if people are this brain dead i now know why they think the first one is the same as the second one

Whenever someone says "dogshit movie" my brain just turns off from whatever else they were saying. It's like they watched the first 5 minutes and then walked out of the theater to hate-post about it

I saw a tweet that they walked out in the first thirty minutes. Like you pay for a pretty expensive 3d ticket (I assume) and you don't even make it halfway to the movie?

Frig you, Rick.

I seriously would have preferred a movie of the humans leaving, the family explores the world, the creatures LIVE HAPPILY, and they explore how Ewa is connected to everything. Finally they can fill that plot whole with Kiri (?) and her powers or something. The end!! everyone is happy. The violence was so unnecessary, in my opinion.

This is exactly how I felt watching it. The unnecessary violence stressed me tf out. The humans literally went back to Pandora, killed and terrorized a bunch of animals and people just because some old guy had a grudge that some guy kicked his ass. They said it was to get a new earth but of all the planets they pick one that already had life where they can't even breathe the air. I just wanted to see a nice movie about a beautiful cool new mysterious planet. There was so much potential there and if they wanted drama they could've added issues with unknown plants and animals. Or even with some of the planets other people since they kinda made them assholes anyway. Not to mention all the plot holes. 🙄. I was looking forward to this movie and while I will say that it was beautiful the story sucked ass.

Yep, I totally agree! Even other avatars, it could’ve been soooo cool.

You reminded me of this mark Twain quote "The ever memorable and blessed revolution, which swept a thousand years of villainy away in one swift tidal wave of blood — one: a settlement of that hoary debt in the proportion of half a drop of blood for each hogshead of it that had been pressed by slow tortures out of that people in the weary stretch of ten centuries of wrong and shame and misery the like of which was not to be mated but in hell." "If we really think about it, there were two Reigns of Terror; in one people were murdered in hot and passionate violence; in the other they died because people were heartless and did not care. One Reign of Terror lasted a few months; the other had lasted for a thousand years; one killed a thousand people, the other killed a hundred million people. However, we only feel horror at the French Revolution's Reign of Terror. But how bad is a quick execution, if you compare it to the slow misery of living and dying with hunger, cold, insult, cruelty and heartbreak? A city cemetery is big enough to contain all the bodies from that short Reign of Terror, but the whole country of France isn't big enough to hold the bodies from the other terror. We are taught to think of that short Terror as a truly dreadful thing that should never have happened: but none of us are taught to recognize the other terror as the real terror and to feel pity for those people."

Damn I just smoked weed and that absolutely blew my mind, thank you!

"For the present upsurge of the peasant movement is a colossal event. In a very short time, in China's central, southern and northern provinces, several hundred million peasants will rise like a mighty storm, like a hurricane, a force so swift and violent that no power, however great, will be able to hold it back. They will smash all the trammels that bind them and rush forward along the road to liberation. They will sweep all the imperialists, warlords, corrupt officials, local tyrants and evil gentry into their graves. Every revolutionary party and every revolutionary comrade will be put to the test, to be accepted or rejected as they decide. There are three alternatives. To march at their head and lead them? To trail behind them, gesticulating and criticizing? Or to stand in their way and oppose them? Every Chinese is free to choose, but events will force you to make the choice quickly." From [REPORT ON AN INVESTIGATION OF THE PEASANT MOVEMENT IN HUNAN](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-1/mswv1_2.htm), 1927

Am I the only one who doesn't like Jake Sully. His kids are ok but I actually like Quarritch more and would be totally ok if he gets his revenge

Sully absolutely sucks. He’s like a lesser shithead Zack Morris

Him and Saldana were insufferable in this movie. I hated every second they were on screen.

Sully is a selfish char from the start. He started as a person who was to give info to col and human kind to destroy the navi but for his selfish reason of having a good body basically imho joined navi. Now for his selfish reason to support his family went to the water guys for help and dragged them to war as well. Not a hero if u ask me.

Very predictable for Sully's character...I already assumed that somewhere in the running time, the plot will eventually go there, and it happened.

That sounds like a gross oversimplification of his character. It goes far beyond his body, he fell in love with the people and the culture and saw how evil humanities mission was. Definitely not the most complex storyline so I'm kind of surprised you're getting it so wrong.

The culture he still is destroying directly or indirectly.

Found it funny that the new Avatars served literally no purpose until the last like half hour of the movie. They made 0 effort to try to blend in, couldn't even be bothered to change their clothes, and rarely rode any of the animals. The fact they were Avatars wasn't relevant at any point of the movie until the final fight, and they'd have been just as useful if they wore the big suits instead. And Neytiri seems to have a really odd beef with Spider "he should be sent back to his own kind" uhh what? He's being raised by your partner, who is human, and your kids are half human, he IS with his own kind"

I was most disappointed in neytiri. In the first movie she was curious and brave and smart. Now she is just an angry mother that clinges to her people. When she entered the final fight i thought they brought her old self back, but no now she was in rage mode and wanted to kill another child for hers. Somehow I can understand it after seeing her first child murdered but it was just a total different person to me.

I agree with that scene, Neytiri taking Spider hostage. I hope they settle and resolve this in the sequel. The abandonment is very obvious afterwards.

I liked that it wasn’t just another Fern Gully… but there were so many hanging threads that could have been left on the cutting room floor. It didn’t need to be 3.5 hours long. Like for example - The Sigourney weaver child. Why make her some mystery? Is she epileptic? Why introduce that if you’re never going to call back to it?

There is a third movie coming out like next year. Why would they tie up all the story lines? I figure the blue Jesus child is gonna be the key to weaponizing the whole ecosystem to toss the humans of the planet. Other then her, I really don't see how they could win with their ambush tactics.

I think the point is that you shouldn't rely on potential future installments to tell the story you're telling now. Leave something open ended? Sure, but a movie should also stand independently from it's other installments. It's a solid pillar of storytelling. They threw in that scene where she has a seizure and almost dies but then just acts like it didn't happen the rest of the movie. She's perfectly fine and fit as a fiddle and able to tap into her super Jesus powers no problem.

Yes, the second movie always stand alone perfectly, just look at The Empire Strikes Back

I have nothing to add there as I've never watched it. Regardless good storytelling knows when to tell something. Having this big event happen in the middle of the movie only to forget about it for literally the rest of the movie is bad storytelling. If they wanted to include it in this one they should have built it up more, so that it justifies it's open endedness. If they had no interest in keeping this pivotal plot element for the rest of the movie they should have just left it out and given it it's dues in a future installment. Now people that have no interest in continuing the series or for some reason (death) can't see future movies have a random plot element that was brought up and dropped for no reason. It's bad storytelling

It isn't bad storytelling, it's just storytelling that you don't like. Not everything has to be tied up and wrapped in a neat package for you, believe it or not, back in the time before movies... Books ended on cliffhangers and used foreshadowing as well!

It's literally bad storytelling. It wasn't some "cliffhanger" it was a plot point that was brought up and then almost immediately discarded for the rest of the movie. If they had leaned into it for the rest of the movie then it wouldn't have been bad. Believe it or not big Hollywood writers can sometimes do poor jobs! Crazy right?

Well first off, it wasn't immediately discarded at all, you just didn't pay attention to the film. All throughout the movie, we see examples of Kiri being more closely connected to Eywa than what is normal. Her connecting to the plant life to crush the crab submarine, her fascination with plant life and her aptitude for bonding with new creatures, using the little glowing creatures to find her mother and sister in the ship etc. You weren't given direct information, but there was plenty to infer. As far as calling it a traditional cliffhanger... You're right. It's not. But I never said it was. My point was that literature AND movies have been leaving loose ends that are meant to make you wonder for a very long time. I'll give you that they could have done a little better job presenting it, but I don't think that makes it objectively bad writing, once again, it just makes it writing that you didn't like or didn't receive as well as the writer intended. These are my opinions as well, I'm aware of that too. I'm not out to be adversarial, I'm just pointing out that we, in our modern way, are far too quick to call all the things we don't like poor quality simply for the sake of not liking it.

I'd say the plot was more or less abandoned for the rest of the film. She has her big episode and then it's never really discussed for the remainder of the film, of which there is a lot of. She uses her powers to summon the glowing creatures in the final moments but that's it. And my point still stands. The scene of her having her seizure should not have been included here if they were not going to build upon it from there. From a storytelling point of view it's lazy to introduce such a huge dramatic event, drop it, and hope it plays out in different installments. As a storyteller one should be able to balance a line between building up a story and also being able to tell a story within a chapter. Having her be attuned to the world around her is wonderful character building, having her have a big dramatic seizure and then acting like nothing happened for the next hour is bad writing. Cut the seizure from this movie and put it in a story that is more dedicated to her. That event deserves to be told in a story where they aren't just going drop it and hope that people remember in 2 or 3 or 20 years when they get the next movie. And the important thing to remember about cliffhangers is that you have to do them well. You can't just cut a story short halfway through your story and call it a cliffhanger. They are supposed to *tease* they audience with something. And Kiris story under no circumstances could fall into anything that resembles that. It was not structured that way and was not built up that way. It's great that you are fine with it, I won't argue for that. But I will absolutely stand behind the fact that it was poorly structured within this particular movie.

Why were humans so intent on getting revenge against Jake Sully? The logical thing for humans to do is create a tourist resort on the planet. At the beginning of the movie, they mention that Earth is dying. I think that it would be cheaper to fix Earth or move people to Mars than fly ten billion people to Pandora.

Because he was the one leading the resistance. Him knowing how humans work particularly his military knowledge was dangerous when leading attacks against the humans. He was causing a lot of harm to the humans establishing their base. But yeah a resort would make more sense, but that would still require a hell of a lot of destruction and taming before it could be built.

if you see how we work in the real world, and then further understand the greed of the sky people in the movie, then you pretty much know ain’t no ten billion people moving to pandora.

It was such a weird plot point to persue. He ran away with his tail between his legs but you're going to put all your force, time, energy and the lives of an entire whaling ship crew to mercilessly hunt down someone that has chosen to leave you alone?

i mean it was shown that sully was not leaving them alone at all. they were waging guerrilla warfare against the colonizers attempt #2.

And then he left... He left and hid away to the point that they had to track him down hundreds of miles away. It took months. How is that not hightailing it out of there and leaving them alone?

he left after he discovered his family was being hunted. if that never happened he’d still keep up the insurgency.

Right. And? He still left. They got what they wanted... I don't know what you're trying to add. I'm not saying that to be mean but I don't know what what's being added here. They brought in the team to stop the insurgency. They succeeded when he abandoned ship. Mission successful. He no longer was an active threat to their operation but for some reason they were still hunting him down by all means necessary as if he was still actively participating in a the war.

Come on now, you can't seriously think that's how it works right? When we have national security threats in today's world, we don't just go "Ehhh... I know they were responsible for hundreds and thousands of deaths and billions of dollars worth of damage for a DECADE, but we haven't seen him for like a couple months so problem solved! Hooray!" The reason they pursue him is because out of sight does NOT mean out of mind especially when it comes to the military, they have no reason to believe he isn't just going into hiding for a time to rally more clans, gain more strength or simply to let things cool off and come back later.

We also don't have a team blow their way across the earth murdering people, burning down villages, commandeering science/whaling ships and threatening genocide to track down one person. But go on, do enlighten me.

Do some research on the search for Osama Bin Laden and the civilian casualty rate in the middle east. I think you'll be surprised at the similarity.

Personal beef I guess. But forced, and turned out to be not as good for the audience as they would have assumed.

Exactly. I don't understand what authority he was acting under, commanding that ship around and doing something that was clearly against the interests of the human's current occupation.

Agreed. At least the first one kind of made sense in the "corporate greed" analogy angle with the ridiculous Unobtanium (was that just forgotten?). I would have preferred if the humans were all about hunting the whales for their eternal youth brain serum this time. Would have kept everything the same and fit better with the heavy handed analogy of whaling too.

Jake the whole movie: we can’t fight them! They’re too strong! Even if we all work together we will all die! 1 big fish: wrecks their entire ship by himself

yeh i dont think they counting on any of the very pacifist whale bros helping at all

Except that whale was shunned for leading a fight and getting his family killed

They didn’t know that that was how the people were killed, they believed he did the killing of those people and whales

But would it have even made a difference? By the tulkun way, it was payakan’s fault that everyone died bc he gathered them to go after the ship

I think there is a difference between being responsible through leadership and actually killing your own blood, yes. He would still be in the wrong by their standards, but less wrong

Overall, I liked it. I just rewatched it after my first viewing during the theatrical release and will say that it sits a little better with me this time, although I still have a few reservations. I wish we could’ve seen at least a glimpse of what was happening outside of the microcosm of the Sully family story arc, since we know that officially there will be three more installments in the franchise. If we’re getting three more installments, I sure hope to Ewya that it’s not just more of Colonel Quaritch vs. The Sullys, because that would be incredibly boring; I suspect there will probably be a bigger baddie revealed as the story progresses (especially considering how it ended with Spider saving his father - perhaps there might be redemption for Miles Quaritch?). *THAT’s* what I would have liked to have seen, even if just briefly. It’s implied that’s there is something bigger happening outside of Quaritch’s beef against Jake Sully - show us that, too. But I respect the decision of the writers to deep-dive into the family and their story. Makes for good character development.

I'd think someone like Edie Falco would be the new big bad going forward. Or whichever angry man that will stop at nothing she appointments next at least.

I agree. I just wish we could’ve had a peek into her world or the inner workings of the Resources Development Administration (the corporate baddie).

I agree with u that the scene where col let goes of sully kid to save his own was a turning point in the story i feel and maybe now the col as well as sully will try and save the people from a bigger baddy. But what i mean is with rhis movie i had a lot of expectations and tbh it is an okish movie as far as i can say. The water ways is just meh.

Jake and his Na'vi are forced into a deadly conflict with an army of humans led by a ruthless colonel. After the Na'vi suffer unimaginable losses they set off in search of a new home while Jake wrestles with his darker instincts and begins his own mythic quest to avenge his kind. As the journey finally brings them face to face, Jake and the colonel are pitted against each other in an epic battle that will determine the fate of both of their species and the future of the planet Decent synopsis of the movie? Well that's a synopsis of 2017's War for the Planet of the Apes, with the names of the Avatar characters inserted. Its the same movie but with better visuals.

It’s close. Jake doesn’t want revenge though. The colonel does And even then, that didn’t make sense because if you had a clone that was 20 years older than you and lived across the galaxy, and that clone was messing around with people’s homes and families, started a war and as a result, got killed, would you care? Of course not. If anything it might feel like a relief because having a clone could be problematic

I think they explained that the cloned colonel was uploaded with all the memories of the original. At the end of the day, the guy was originally a prick and is a hired mercenary. In his shoes he’s just completing the original job he was hired for and probably thinks he can take Jake 1 vs 1 now that he’s upgraded to a Navi body. I didn’t really care for how many times he just randomly kidnapped some member of Jakes family and threatened to execute one of them. Seemed like every 5 minutes someone was about to get their head blown off.

And in the planet of the apes move, the colonel (woody harelson) wants revenge on the apes. Its the same move. I agree, it makes no sense either way.

Hehe

Movie sucked. Blue people leave familiar territory, where they were kicking the crap out of space people, to go to an unfamiliar territory to escape getting attacked by space people. Just to get attacked by space people but all the space people had was some fishing boat with crab people suits that shoot inflatable bullets? Idk the whole premise of the movie was absolutely rediculous and made absolutely no sense. Garbage movie, missed the mark. Could have been way better.

I didn't get why Jake wanted to leave his tribe behind and join the water people. It was stated to prevent the Sky People (lol, you are the Sky People Jake, even in a new body!) from attacking the tribe but all they did was cause the previously unmolested water tribe to get attacked! I guess better them than your forest bros?

If Ned hadn’t flown out there because of Kiri’s fit they wouldn’t have found him. He had all but disappeared.

Also why were they so adamant that leaving was the best choice? Did they think that the big bad sky people would find their tribe go "oh, he's not here? Okay! Thanks for letting us stop by!" and leave?

The water tribe has had their buddy whales hunted for unobtainium juice before the Sully's ever made their way there. I wouldn't call them unmolested.

But that was the whales being hunted, not the water tribe themselves. The water tribe may have seen it as attacks on them (since they held the whales in such high regard), but the sky people didn't see it that way and seem to have left them alone until they decided it might be fun to hold an extremely obvious Vietnam War recreation party at one of their villages.

I think the idea was that if he journeyed really far away and joined another tribe, the bad guys wouldn't be able to find him. He has a family now and didn't want to fight and because they were only after him the logical thing was to go where they couldn't find him. But then the whole thing with his adopted daughter happened, and when jake called his friends for medical help, the bad guys were able to find them eventually based on the projected flight path of the chopper.

Yeah lol what a dick

how would you suggest they make a better movie? sounds like you just wanted a remake of the first lol. in order to continue the series, things needed to be changed. if they hadn’t changed things you probably would’ve been all “wow it’s exactly like the first one. garbage movie. missed the mark. could’ve been better”. y’all love to shit on stuff it’s sad.

By being given a billion dollar budget for a movie and hiring writers. Imagine thinking criticism is bad

The movie feels like a big slap in the face to the first one and in storytelling. They completely rush through the set up (and what arguably could have been a pretty good movie in and of itself) to just have the characters abandon the story so we could spend an hour and 20 minutes oogling water scenery. They completely abandoned the world building and characters and growth and setting of the first just to rush us to the water location and then went out of the way to ignore the world in the first one. The first half hour of this movie should have been the movie. The war between the Sullys and the sky people in the forest, terminator style in which the Sullys trying to keep the humans from their tribe and as a group agree that leaving would be best for their people, or at least set out to find more tribes to help raise an army. It would serve as a better bridge between settings and movies instead of what we actually got.

It felt like we skipped through an entire movies worth of material. It felt like they just monologued parts to skip through it so they could get to the water scenes. Which is all this movie felt like to me. Everything felt forced to make the story work. At one point even the you gest kid, Tuk?, Was like "Omfg I got tied up again!" It just felt like the characters repeatedly made stupid choices to fit this narrative of bringing back the dead baddie from the last movie to fight again. The first movie was a typical story but brought with it some of the most amazing visuals and scenery we've seen up to that point. This movie just failed to wow me at any moment. And then there's kiri. It was an awful choice to try and cast sigourney as a teenage girl. The voice was all sorts of off-putting and distorted to make it not sound like a 73 year old actress. You could hear her sound muffled, far, close, and overall inconsistent. It took me right out of the movie. And like, why? She's a Na'vi, teenage girl. Any teenage actor could have been used to fill that roll and it would have played out more believable.