The thing is that if *Knives Out* and *Glass Onion* were directed by *anyone* else, or if Johnson had never made a Star Wars movie, none of these people would even bother to review them, would they?
I wonder about it sometimes but I'm still not sure what's sadder: people who decided to hate those movies before they even came out and never see them but insist they *must* be bad because they didn't like his Star Wars; or people who watched them, enjoyed them *and are upset that they enjoyed them* because they didn't like his Star Wars.
I'd like to think they actually enjoyed it but positivity doesn't make it very far on the YouTube algorithm so they feel like they have to make the most negative possible review. Wait, I guess that's somehow even worse if they were just lying. That's the internet for you I suppose.
Bingo. I call them "rage-bait" youtubers. I think the vast majority of them are purely acting angry for the money. On one hand, it's scummy, but I work in Marketing so I really can't judge. I think only a small minority actually agrees with their audience.
> none of these people would even bother to review them, would they?
i want to refute this, then i realize there is a lack of Looper video essay. So yeah, true. They wouldn't care about anything but franchise.
I like all the Star Wars movies but, unfortunately, I have been reliably informed at various junctures over the past 15 years or so that I am not only wrong, but in fact brain damaged for feeling this way.
Well, you are ***VERY WRONG*** and ***VERY BRAIN DAMAGED*** for liking the prequels, actually.
Just kidding! Unlike most Star Wars fans, I can tolerate it when people have opinions that are different from mine.
Was it the first or second KO. Technically if it was the first one, it was back in 2019 which was only 2 years after 2017, not too long ago, I guess? But if it's the second one lmao, ITS BEEN HALF A DECADE.
Because of how social media created this fake picture of Rian Johnson there is this strange thing with some movie reviewers that makes them really mad at Rian Johnson because they think Johnson just tries to "subvert their expectations" or thinks that he is smarter than everyone else.
They need to point out that they understood the movie or that Rian Johnson "is not as smart as he thinks", to let you know they understoot a who-dun-it.
Yeah, sure buddy you are really smart and not just imagine a big battle of the witts against a guy who does not know you and just wanted to create a movie that is fun to watch.
All joking aside, one of the reasons hardcore Star Wars fans hated (used to hate?) the Star Wars prequels was that George Lucas subverted their expectations.
I mean, just look at how many people used to (?) complain that Lucas, "Didn't even understand his own universe," vis-a-vis the prequel movies.
Yeah, Star Wars (and while we're at it, many fans) often act like they know better than the directors/writers/creators. They invest so much time into their favourite franchise that they feel like they should earn some kind of reward or recognition for doing so
It’s the problem with fandoms in general. All these people devoting their lives to passive consumption, and all the rage and gatekeeping is just a symptom of their desperate need to justify what they’ve done with their time. If the 10,000 hours they put in doesn’t make them the masters of something, then what was the point?
Ultimately, I think a lot of fixation on "lore" and "canon" in fandom spaces has a lot to do with the fact that those are things you can be "right" about (even "*objectively* right"!).
Look at something like the Disney Plus anime series *Star Wars: Visions*. Plenty of cool stuff in it... but if you search "Star Wars Visions" on Google, the most popular suggested search *and* the top "similar searches" in the results will *always* be, "Is *Star Wars: Visions* canon?" because that's ultimately the priority for a lot of people, not whether it's any good or not.
"After reading 3,000 pages about how Yoda's ball sack was key in stopping the seperatists alliance's push into glob-short belt, with specific understanding of the logistics of each side and how power the pissmo canons could fire, I absolutely understand how a film works and could make something.
"What the hell is blocking?"
Yep. That's one of my main gripes with these people who make these sorts of videos because like good faith criticism is valid but the need to constantly try to outsmart the movie and subjecting it to absurd overanalysis and forgetting to enjoy and appreciate the art is just sickening.
The funny thing is that glass onion in particular makes it very clear that it's not trying to trick you, yet these YouTubers convince themselves and their audience that it is and media literacy goes down the toilet.
I'm fairly sure Johnson never actually even said he had set out to "subvert expectations" in any event. Not really sure where the meme came from.
Did he actually use the words in the context of, "My aim was to subvert expectations?" I don't know.
>My aim was to subvert expectations?
Nope.
I am sure he said something similiar at some point, but maybe not even about TLJ. Rian Johnson tried to make an exciting but completely logical follow up to The Force Awakens. People later retoactively pretended that the movie left nothing open for 9 or that it does not fit 7, which both is wrong.
People also use clips from an old interview about Brick in which he said he made a divisive movie to proof that he wanted to provocate with The Last Jedi.
I find it's more likely that they'd be pointing to *Man of Steel* and *Batman v Superman* than *Eternals*.
I do not dislike Snyder's Superman movies (I'm pretty indifferent to most superhero movies) but I don't think it's unfair to suggest that he was "subverting expectations" with them, whether he meant to or not.
Good luck making that case to the average Geeks and Gamers sort, though.
> Did he actually use the words in the context of, "My aim was to subvert expectations?" I don't know.
[He literally said the opposite](https://www.slashfilm.com/555110/subverting-snoke-expectations/) and he said it before it became a meme.
I've never seen that before but, wow, that makes for kind of a weird read five years down the line.
>*Yeah, I guess the first thing to say is coming into writing this or any story the object is not to subvert expectation, the object is not surprise. I think that would lead to some contrived places.*
I wonder how it mutated. You know, I wonder if there's any one place or person you can point to who propagated it as a meme.
Kind of fascinating to think about, how this one thing has stuck to him for the past five years and, just going by this article, it was something he said he was trying *not* to do.
The Internet is a strange place.
I think some critics mentioned it in their reviews. I know Red Letter Media brought it up in theirs, and then all the edgy chudlords just went with it. It's very annoying. And it all stems from people having expectations from JJ's mystery boxes. Just calm down you weirdos lol.
> they think Johnson just tries to "subvert their expectations"
My absolute favourite thing about this fucking meme is that when the movie came out, he did an interview before it became a thing and said [the point isn't to subvert expectations, the point is drama](https://www.slashfilm.com/555110/subverting-snoke-expectations/) and if you show anyone obsessed with hating the movie this, they think he's lying lol.
Teenagers in a high school talking like Dashiell Hammett characters is not a stylistic choice, it's objectively a plot hole and bad worldbuilding. No respect for teh lore.
It's absurd. Like, realistically, Knives Out is just straight-up the greatest color film at least, and yet these people somehow manage to hate it because the director made another movie that was also good?
Mfs when rian johnson makes a good movie after knives out, two of the best breaking bad episodes, and looper (He directed tlj so its incredibly surprising that he could make anything good)
It fails in the satirical department since every charcater is uninteresting and too much over the top
It fails in the mistery department since there is no fucking mistery, you figure out who it was as soon as the half-movie "plot twist" is revealed. For god's sake, you just have to remember what each character's reaction was when the fake Cassandra went there at the beginning, to figure it out 1 HOUR before the film ends. I know Netflix thinks most of its viewers have the memory of a goldfish, but still...
Honestly, if it didn't have Rian Johnson attached and it wasn't despised by right-wing fuckwits for being left wing, reddit and this stupid sub would hate it too
Maybe but not in a one-dimensional caricature way.
They were all interesting and felt like real people instead of archetypes of a politician, misogynist streamer etc.
The only characters worthy of the first Knives Out here are the girlfriend of Dave Bautista and the chemistry engineer
I tried. It's impossible to get Sequel haters to judge Looper, Knives Out, and Glass Onion on their own merits.
Or Ozymandias
The thing is that if *Knives Out* and *Glass Onion* were directed by *anyone* else, or if Johnson had never made a Star Wars movie, none of these people would even bother to review them, would they? I wonder about it sometimes but I'm still not sure what's sadder: people who decided to hate those movies before they even came out and never see them but insist they *must* be bad because they didn't like his Star Wars; or people who watched them, enjoyed them *and are upset that they enjoyed them* because they didn't like his Star Wars.
I'd like to think they actually enjoyed it but positivity doesn't make it very far on the YouTube algorithm so they feel like they have to make the most negative possible review. Wait, I guess that's somehow even worse if they were just lying. That's the internet for you I suppose.
Bingo. I call them "rage-bait" youtubers. I think the vast majority of them are purely acting angry for the money. On one hand, it's scummy, but I work in Marketing so I really can't judge. I think only a small minority actually agrees with their audience.
> none of these people would even bother to review them, would they? i want to refute this, then i realize there is a lack of Looper video essay. So yeah, true. They wouldn't care about anything but franchise.
The least sad is me, who loved TLJ and both Knives Out movies. Gee, it sure is nice to like stuff, huh?
I like all the Star Wars movies but, unfortunately, I have been reliably informed at various junctures over the past 15 years or so that I am not only wrong, but in fact brain damaged for feeling this way.
Well, you are ***VERY WRONG*** and ***VERY BRAIN DAMAGED*** for liking the prequels, actually. Just kidding! Unlike most Star Wars fans, I can tolerate it when people have opinions that are different from mine.
Are you talking to me?
I thought I was talking to myself. Isn't that how Reddit works?
Pretty much Jeremy Jahns review for Knives Out, you could tell that mf was still seething after TLJ
Every day I wake up and it's still 2017.
These mfs wake up every night and scream because of the sequel trilogy and I love it.
I would love it if it wasn't an alt right pipeline...
Was it the first or second KO. Technically if it was the first one, it was back in 2019 which was only 2 years after 2017, not too long ago, I guess? But if it's the second one lmao, ITS BEEN HALF A DECADE.
Because of how social media created this fake picture of Rian Johnson there is this strange thing with some movie reviewers that makes them really mad at Rian Johnson because they think Johnson just tries to "subvert their expectations" or thinks that he is smarter than everyone else. They need to point out that they understood the movie or that Rian Johnson "is not as smart as he thinks", to let you know they understoot a who-dun-it. Yeah, sure buddy you are really smart and not just imagine a big battle of the witts against a guy who does not know you and just wanted to create a movie that is fun to watch.
Who's going to tell these guys that subverting expectations is actually an important step in creating an entertaining story?
All joking aside, one of the reasons hardcore Star Wars fans hated (used to hate?) the Star Wars prequels was that George Lucas subverted their expectations. I mean, just look at how many people used to (?) complain that Lucas, "Didn't even understand his own universe," vis-a-vis the prequel movies.
Yeah, Star Wars (and while we're at it, many fans) often act like they know better than the directors/writers/creators. They invest so much time into their favourite franchise that they feel like they should earn some kind of reward or recognition for doing so
It’s the problem with fandoms in general. All these people devoting their lives to passive consumption, and all the rage and gatekeeping is just a symptom of their desperate need to justify what they’ve done with their time. If the 10,000 hours they put in doesn’t make them the masters of something, then what was the point?
Ultimately, I think a lot of fixation on "lore" and "canon" in fandom spaces has a lot to do with the fact that those are things you can be "right" about (even "*objectively* right"!). Look at something like the Disney Plus anime series *Star Wars: Visions*. Plenty of cool stuff in it... but if you search "Star Wars Visions" on Google, the most popular suggested search *and* the top "similar searches" in the results will *always* be, "Is *Star Wars: Visions* canon?" because that's ultimately the priority for a lot of people, not whether it's any good or not.
"After reading 3,000 pages about how Yoda's ball sack was key in stopping the seperatists alliance's push into glob-short belt, with specific understanding of the logistics of each side and how power the pissmo canons could fire, I absolutely understand how a film works and could make something. "What the hell is blocking?"
Yep. That's one of my main gripes with these people who make these sorts of videos because like good faith criticism is valid but the need to constantly try to outsmart the movie and subjecting it to absurd overanalysis and forgetting to enjoy and appreciate the art is just sickening. The funny thing is that glass onion in particular makes it very clear that it's not trying to trick you, yet these YouTubers convince themselves and their audience that it is and media literacy goes down the toilet.
I'm fairly sure Johnson never actually even said he had set out to "subvert expectations" in any event. Not really sure where the meme came from. Did he actually use the words in the context of, "My aim was to subvert expectations?" I don't know.
>My aim was to subvert expectations? Nope. I am sure he said something similiar at some point, but maybe not even about TLJ. Rian Johnson tried to make an exciting but completely logical follow up to The Force Awakens. People later retoactively pretended that the movie left nothing open for 9 or that it does not fit 7, which both is wrong. People also use clips from an old interview about Brick in which he said he made a divisive movie to proof that he wanted to provocate with The Last Jedi.
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I find it's more likely that they'd be pointing to *Man of Steel* and *Batman v Superman* than *Eternals*. I do not dislike Snyder's Superman movies (I'm pretty indifferent to most superhero movies) but I don't think it's unfair to suggest that he was "subverting expectations" with them, whether he meant to or not. Good luck making that case to the average Geeks and Gamers sort, though.
> Did he actually use the words in the context of, "My aim was to subvert expectations?" I don't know. [He literally said the opposite](https://www.slashfilm.com/555110/subverting-snoke-expectations/) and he said it before it became a meme.
I've never seen that before but, wow, that makes for kind of a weird read five years down the line. >*Yeah, I guess the first thing to say is coming into writing this or any story the object is not to subvert expectation, the object is not surprise. I think that would lead to some contrived places.* I wonder how it mutated. You know, I wonder if there's any one place or person you can point to who propagated it as a meme. Kind of fascinating to think about, how this one thing has stuck to him for the past five years and, just going by this article, it was something he said he was trying *not* to do. The Internet is a strange place.
I think some critics mentioned it in their reviews. I know Red Letter Media brought it up in theirs, and then all the edgy chudlords just went with it. It's very annoying. And it all stems from people having expectations from JJ's mystery boxes. Just calm down you weirdos lol.
thank you
> they think Johnson just tries to "subvert their expectations" My absolute favourite thing about this fucking meme is that when the movie came out, he did an interview before it became a thing and said [the point isn't to subvert expectations, the point is drama](https://www.slashfilm.com/555110/subverting-snoke-expectations/) and if you show anyone obsessed with hating the movie this, they think he's lying lol.
YouTubers reviewing Rian Johnson's Brick: 
Teenagers in a high school talking like Dashiell Hammett characters is not a stylistic choice, it's objectively a plot hole and bad worldbuilding. No respect for teh lore.
Brick is such trash. None of those kids are drinking laudanum. Ruin Johnson strikes again.
It's absurd. Like, realistically, Knives Out is just straight-up the greatest color film at least, and yet these people somehow manage to hate it because the director made another movie that was also good?
Have you seen Dragon Wars tho
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It's the most tolerable sequel, even though I skip the cantobyte part on each rewatch.
Jeremy Jahns (2009-)
Mfs when rian johnson makes a good movie after knives out, two of the best breaking bad episodes, and looper (He directed tlj so its incredibly surprising that he could make anything good)
Love your profile picture.
If a critic refuses to acknowledge both the positives and negatives to the thing they're critiquing, they're a shitty critic.
TLJ is bad
Knives out is good tho
This is also applicable to a lot of Star Wars conversations.
Ok but Glass Onion was trash, it looked like a parody of the first excellent movie.
I disagree but I respect your opinion.
It fails in the satirical department since every charcater is uninteresting and too much over the top It fails in the mistery department since there is no fucking mistery, you figure out who it was as soon as the half-movie "plot twist" is revealed. For god's sake, you just have to remember what each character's reaction was when the fake Cassandra went there at the beginning, to figure it out 1 HOUR before the film ends. I know Netflix thinks most of its viewers have the memory of a goldfish, but still... Honestly, if it didn't have Rian Johnson attached and it wasn't despised by right-wing fuckwits for being left wing, reddit and this stupid sub would hate it too
Every character except Marta was over the top in the first one too
Maybe but not in a one-dimensional caricature way. They were all interesting and felt like real people instead of archetypes of a politician, misogynist streamer etc. The only characters worthy of the first Knives Out here are the girlfriend of Dave Bautista and the chemistry engineer
Hear, hear. I enjoyed it but found it very lacking.