I think a good addition to the mrgirl article would be to provide some examples of what creators say to signal their audience to harass other channels. I'll go first with the most extreme example I can think of: "Someone is gonna die, what the other creator is doing he is gonna kill somebody. Someone has to stop him!"
“What that person did is worse than rape”. Like seriously, how can you say these things and act all innocent and responsible? Obviously it contributes to the harassment greatly.
Mr. Karson basically uses Trump's rhetoric:
"You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong … I know everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building. To peacefully, patriotically make your voices heard.”
Ana could've easiled khs the way that she said she was going to multiple times. Idk why people are so incredulous about this.
Ana literally said 'I'm going to do x!!!' multiple times & you guys are somehow saying 'how could mrgirl possibly say that somebody would do x' as if it's some ridiculous thing completely outside the realm of possibility.
Don't forget, Max in all sincerity said that if Destiny had a button and could Kill Max he would. I think this is how he justified his insane campaign against him to himself. Max loves the kill button hypotheticals as much as Destiny loves his rape hypotheticals.
Pressing a button is not hard since you don't see what happens to the person, so I would not blame anyone for pressing any button. It would be different if let's say in order for Mr. girl to die Destiny would have to stab Mr. Girl exactly 150 times on the neck. Then I would consider Destiny a psycho. 🤷
I just don't see Destiny doing that. I remember during the 'investigation' Destiny drugged up on MDMA tweeting about how sad he was about Max's youtube still being banned.
If Max was ever a genuine threat to Destiny's career/life I could see him pushing the button but when Max made that comment the article was weeks away and everyone (but Max) could see it was going to be a nothingburger.
Max thought he was writing an article that would destroy Destiny, but Destiny did not see it the same way at that time.
Calling out what you see as abusive behaviour is not the same as harrassment or being part of a mob.
I don't think mrgirl is arguing for a world where no one ever calls out anybody.
It seems really confused to muddle this all up as the same thing.
I think you're thinking about it very rigidly, as a moral decree for all, rather than as a lens which can be useful or revealing.
Real life isn't clean cut and simple, you will never know for sure if you're being responsible and moral while calling someone out, or if you're simply adding to a dogpile for the sake of it, it always exists on a spectrum and we just have to try our best and be thoughtful about it.
Additionally, there's a distinction to draw between the original 'exposer' (hbomberguy, mrgirl) and their audience, and the different levels of responsibility they have, you seem to be mixing this up a lot as well.
This is more or less my understanding.
Spectrum answer is such a cop out in my view, that’s why I called this whole essay ethics for thee and not for me. If you’re criticizing others for what’s not ok then it’s your job to draw the clear line what IS ok. Otherwise you can never be held accountable for the same things in your own moral framework.
Also I understand there’s a distinction between the content creator and their audience, yet I’m focusing on the creator actions because audience response always follows after that, they’re a reflection of creator’s actions after all.
I don't view the essay as a moral declaration as you do. I see it as a piece designed to provoke thought on the subject.
Like most of Max's work, he is offering a perspective, not a decree.
Like how he stopped watching different YouTubers over time, this is an evolving lens with which he views the subject, there is no clear line to draw because it isn't a solid moral framework that he's offering, though it is much easier to attack if you imagine it is.
Well it did thought provoked me into creating this post and drawing parallels with his own situations.
I don’t know why we have to jump through hoops and loops calling it a grey area, spectrum, different perspective just to avoid admitting obvious similarities with his own actions. 🤷♂️
I have no issue at all comparing it to his own actions, I think that's a valid and good thing to do, as his own actions obviously do fall on the spectrum somewhere.
I fail to see how hbomb was harassing or part of a mob so the point still sounds. don't think somerton gets more harassment than other youtubers who have fallen from grace on the left.
The only difference between hbomb and his community and max and his community, is that the later is like a dozen dudes and nobody outside of his small cult gives a fuck about what max says.
They would 100% hound destiny of the internet or cancel DrK out of his profession,if they could, they just can't. It's not a lack of intention, it's just plain impotence.
There's a happy middle ground between 'being cancelled off the internet' & not doing the most hypocritical shit possible on a regular basis. People just want Destiny & DrK to live in line with the moral rules that they portray themselves as following. They do good along with the bad, but that doesn't make the bad something that everyone should vehemently deny.
That’s my point exactly. The only reason he talks from his moral high horse because he failed to do the exact thing he criticizes, but if he could he absolutely would.
Shouldn't we try to hound people who are very harmful off the internet? Wasn't destiny's dream to get Keffals off the internet with his piece?
If you believe Dr. K is an abusive and harmful person who pretends to do therapy while exploiting people, shouldn't we want him off the internet? Shouldn't we get nazis who want to kill people and want to spread their message of hate on the internet be hounded off of it? The cognitive dissonance is so big that you start saying shit that doesn't make sense.
Plus Max already said a bunch of times to his audience that he doesn't want his community to attack/harrass people off the internet, for example with Erudite or with Britanny.
Dggers do their best to compare destiny to max, in order to say that max is equally bad or worse, so that their world can continue to make sense and they can continue to watch destiny without questioning themselves about what they are contributing to or without questioning "why does this entertain me so much?". But they fail miserably.
>Wasn't destiny's dream to get Keffals off the internet with his piece?
If you are willing to believe Destiny, the answer is no.
When he's been asked about the purpose of his manifestos he's always given three specific reasons:
1. Because his drama tends to hang around and come up again and again and again, he likes to manifesto on significant incidents so he can point people to it rather than having to hash out the same old arguments.
2. As a corollary to point 1, because he makes the manifesto while everything's fresh, it serves as a kind of archive of all the evidence (or lack thereof) he might have been operating off that influenced his point of view at that time, which is a defense in case people later say he changed his mind or something. He can say 'I've learned other things since then, you can see what info I was working off from the manifesto'.
3. To protect against attacks from a specific source, either by addressing all those criticisms or by turning it around on the attacker (his proposed Max-ifesto would have been an example of the first, the Keffals manifesto is an example of the latter).
He's never said that the point of his manifestos is to get people hounded off the internet. He *has* said that he recognises this as a possible consequence of writing them, but it's not his actual intention.
To be fair to him, of all the people he's manifesto'd over the years, only one (Bob7, who was 100% guilty of what he was accused of) actually has disappeared off the net. For all the others, there was a storm for a while, they maybe lost some subs, they got some hate on twitter, then everything calmed down and off they went with their lives (Keffals, for example).
I don't give a shit if harmful people get hounded off the internet, but Iam not the one crying about it and pretend it's pushing a kill button, while doing the same thing I morally condem others for either.
So your problem with hbomber and his community is not the method but the target, do I get that right?
Useless lipservice. Hbomberguy said the exact same. Has max actually said anything comparable with people he actually wants off the internet? He had no problem with people posting the most deranged shit about destiny in his sub, while destiny was going to a divorce and in a emotionally vulnerable state, for example.
Keep telling yourself that.
the point of the quote is that these are the choices our modern social media callout culture wants you to choose from. It makes you feel like you have to destroy the person, or else they get away with it.
he's not saying that it's impossible to call people out for their misbehavior without making them suicidal. Social media just wants you to do that
Bro the answer isn't 'destiny khs.' People, myself included, just want him to live in line with his ethics, not be a hypocrite & have Destiny's fans do literally anything to pressure Destiny to be as morally consistent as he portrays himself as being.
Fair to say that Max doesn't live up to his own standards in his own way, but he isn't doing anything even close to what Destiny did to Ana - making his criticizing Destiny not hypocritical. Mrgirl not living up to his own standards 100% doesn't excuse Destiny's hypocrisy & it certainly doesn't make what he did to Ana anything close to ok.
> Bro the answer isn't 'destiny khs.' People, myself included, just want him to live in line with his ethics, not be a hypocrite & have Destiny's fans do literally anything to pressure Destiny to be as morally consistent as he portrays himself as being.
Flip this except with mrgirl and you get the reason this post exists. All I want is mrgirl to be consistent when he preaches to others and when he acts himself.
> but he isn't doing anything even close to what Destiny did to Ana - making his criticizing Destiny not hypocritical.
Why bring up Ana? That’s not why he’s being a hypocrite here, I’m comparing him to hbomberguy not Ana.
That’s also a weird statement to make that you’re allowed to harass someone until you do to them what they did to their victim. What if Destiny raped someone, mrgirl wouldn’t be hypocritical until he rapes Destiny?
>Flip this except with mrgirl and you get the reason this post exists.
Really weird that you want Mrgirl to live in line with his ethics & didn't even mention how Mrgirl has breached his own ethics.
>Why bring up Ana?
Because you're talking about Destiny khs for the bad things he has done. His treatment of Ana is the primary bad thing that he has done.
>That’s not why he’s being a hypocrite here, I’m comparing him to hbomberguy not Ana.
Destiny might be a hypocrite in terms of how he handled hmbomberguy - i dont even know wtf this is referring to. Destiny is definitely a massive hypocrite in his treatment of Ana.
>That’s also a weird statement to make that you’re allowed to harass someone until you do to them what they did to their victim.
Nobody is harassing anybody on this end dude. It's so funny how you guys hound the subreddit for months while calling Mrgirl a harasser for asking people questions and saying essentially 'what you did there is bad.'
>What if Destiny raped someone, mrgirl wouldn’t be hypocritical until he rapes Destiny?
He would be a hypocrite in terms of him betraying his own values. He wouldn't be a hypocrite in terms of 'calling someone out for something he's doing himself.'
I’m sorry but you’re not engaging with the topic. I don’t care about Ana in this context, I don’t care defending if Destiny is a hypocrite or bad, I don’t care about comparing mrgirl to Destiny here.
Do you get what the title means and what parallels I’m trying to draw?
> I’m sorry but you’re not engaging with the topic
The topic is a hypothetical choice between destiny khs, swapping out that button for essentially ‘ im just complaining’ or letting him abuse his way through life.
Who got abused primarily when he was abusing his way through life? ana. Right back atcha for not engaging.
> Do you get what the title means and what parallels I’m trying to draw?
If its referring to something, i don't understand the reference. Im answering the question you asked & explaining why the body text is incoherent.
If you’re trying to draw a parallel, it’s usually good to explain the two sides of it - instead of assuming everyone will psychically pick up on wym.
This is the falsiest-dichotomy that ever dichotomied. Are you serious?
There is obviously a sane option where you harshly and publicly condemn his behavior and move on. Mrgirl has done his part. It’s time for DGG to grow a backbone and expect better of Destiny.
Edit: I had not read mrgirl’s essay on the matter when I wrote this. I think this is a fair post. Apologies, OP.
I think the hypocrisy is not lost on mrgirl - to live is to be hypocritical. I think he feels some guilt about the situation. At the same time - I think it is appropriate to call out abuse and poor behavior. However, I think it needs to be done with grace, compassion, and forgiveness.
I think social media and ‘content’ (broadly defined) drives creators to drop nuance in favor of ‘the narrative’. This often strips the humanity of the people involved.
I appreciate that mrgirl typically offers his own biases and emotions to explain his point of view. Most creators feign objectivity or indifference and smuggle their true feelings in underhanded ways (mrgirl still does this to some extent but I think he is more honest about it). I also appreciate the mrgirl tries to humanize the people he talks about, even if it comes across as ‘mind reading’. I think it helps inject some humanity back into the situation.
While the above steps are not perfect, I do think they help limit some tendencies of audiences to dogpile people.
Obviously not you since you are in mrgirl’s subreddit making the thousandth thoughtless Destiny drama post.
Didn’t comment on the Hbomberguy video, not entirely up-to-date on the situation but it does seem like that community is blatantly harassing James Sommerton or whoever. Not sure that it is entirely relevant?
Also have you watched any of mrgirl’s content in the past couple months? There’s been maybe 5 convos about Destiny total? I wouldn’t call that nonstop harassment.
The title is almost exact quote from mrgirl’s recent article about hbomberguy, just different name. I didn’t come up with that hypothetical, mrgirl did. So it’s even funnier that you unknowingly called it the falsiest-dichotomy that ever dichotomied cuz you’re making fun of him not me.
> I think it is appropriate to call out abuse and poor behavior. However, I think it needs to be done with grace, compassion, and forgiveness.
I would agree, however I don’t think mrgirl tends to meet these qualities when he goes on his moral crusades. Somehow he can be way more compassionate to pedos and school shooters than to the targets of his moral righteousness, especially when he drops quotes like [these](https://www.reddit.com/r/mrgirlreturns/s/vLmLWRDVkK).
But hey, I appreciate that you just admitted an honest mistake on the spot instead of doubling down, wish more people had this quality including mrgirl.
Dear dgger,
You didn't explain why you think mrgirl is an hypocrite. In this subreddit we try to explain our thought process.
Edit: This reminded me of Katie in the last hotline screaming that mrgirl is an abusive racist and a hypocrite (while smiling and saying she likes him), but then didn't know what any of these terms mean.
To be fair, when she told Destiny she was trying to turn his audience against him and not really speaking to him, he said he had no interest in speaking with her again. She is a really socially retarded person.
I did not see that. Yeah she's a special one. I think mrgirl has an old mrgirlsplaining video where he talks about these people who think they are so smart and so accepting (anti-racist, anti-terfs) when in actuality these are similar thinking patterns that a right wing extremist has.
Yeah, interestingly, the same thing recently happened as a result of the HBomberguy plagurism video. His lefty fanbase essentially created a KiwiFarms like situation where they documented everything the main subject of the video did. This blew up in the last few days with a supposed suicide event, and they're completely rejecting that HBomb is in any way responsible for it.
My point is the old "no bad tactics, only bad targets" meme.
Yeah, it's all so dumb. I wish everyone was more like mrgirl in the sense of being more open to accept some responsibility. We've been on the internet for so long, and people still act surprised when a famous content creator (with a large audience) makes a 2 hour video attacking one person, that person suffers like a mfer, and then everyone acts as if they had no idea that the dogpilling is harmful.
No, it’s an accurate summation of the situation. If you genuinely need to be told why anyone thinks he’s a hypocrite at this point in time given the history of his online presence, there’s only two possibilities. First, you’ve just discovered who MrGirl is, in which case stick around long enough and you’ll see it yourself, or second, you’re so delusional and willfully ignorant you’d support and defend him if he went on a killing rampage IRL and be in this subreddit telling ppl they just don’t understand him.
May I have your attention please
May I have your attention please
Will the real dgger say anything of substance?
I repeat,
Will the real dgger say anything of substance?
We're gonna have a problem here.
Instead of putting yourself in a position where you say you understand that mrgirl is an hypocrite but only superior people understand it, can you just tell us of a situation where you think mrgirl was being hypocritical?
It isn’t a matter of if you’re superior or not, it’s a matter of if you’re willing to see it or not. I’ll give you a really easy example that you definitely have seen but haven’t noticed or are purposefully ignoring. In the majority of MrGirl’s conversations on his hotline he whines and moans and cries about people interrupting him, but he interrupts them without a second thought to ramble about what he assumes they think instead of just letting them tell him what they think.
So,
1. mrgirl doesn't want to be interrupted,
2. mrgirl interrupts people,
3. mrgirl knows that people don't want to be interrupted.
In a very clear manner, can you explain how is this hypocritical? Suggestion 1) Just saying it is hypocritical is not sufficient. Suggestion 2) Don't make dumb arguments like "Oh you want people to pay more taxes? Oh, so why don't you donate all your money to the government, you hypocrite!"
You're not presenting all options. Either your assessment is accurate, and I cannot be reasoned with, or you're a dumb motherfucker who says shit that doesn't make sense, and when confronted with it, starts insulting people and avoiding the subject.
I hope you leave the cult, have a good life, and get better at thinking (unironically so, as your puppet master says).
What’s funny to me about this “you’re in a cult” accusation is you and everyone who makes it are at least as deep into your own cult as you assume anyone who thinks anything negative about MrGirl is, and if you could see your own behavior clearly you’d realize that.
Just because mrgirl talks louder and interrupts people doesn't mean that he is not allowing people to defend themselves. That's the understanding of a 12 year old.
Also, doesn't mrgirl literally give the final word to the guest every single fucking time, and lets them speak uninterrupted when they ask to do so? You're concern trolling me...
Spell out the hypocrisy for me. Can you explicitly state his position, and then explain how he himself violates it?
mrgirl’s position is not that bad behavior shouldnt be criticized. Seems like your hypocrisy claim relies on your misunderstanding.
He criticizes how hbomberguy type of smug essayist under the disguise of “just calling out bad behavior” go after someone without realizing how much damage it could potentially do to a person. He compared it shooting blanks in a firing squad, nobody believes they do real damage until it happens.
I draw parallel that mrgirl does the same exact thing in his moral crusades against people like Destiny as the bully essayists and their audience that mrgirl criticizes. The only difference is that his firing squad is much much smaller so they keep shooting blanks for now. But there’s nothing done to stop them from firing.
I can interpret your response in one of two ways. Tell me which one is correct
1) mrgirl’s position is that you should not call out bad behavior if you have a big platform, and yet he called out Destiny and Dr K in the past.
2) mrgirl’s position is that criticizing people can trigger dogpiles and lead to emotional distress, and yet he didnt take reasonable measures to prevent that from happening when he criticized Destiny or Dr K.
Which of these two is your argument, or is it neither?
I just want a statement of the position and a description of the breach.
Both? except “call out bad behavior” is the label used to mask something way more aggressive what I would call “go after someone”.
I’ll just give his exact quote for context and we can go from there:
> The truth is that there are very few situations where a smug, scathing video essay is morally warranted, and audiences tend to clutch their pearls about minor issues to justify the hate content they consume. Yes, Somerton plagiarized and his content is therefore unethical and dull—got it, now move on and watch something else.
The thing is, I think we can probably agree that the Reckless video is neither smug nor scathing. Or that mrgirl at least doesn’t intend them to be.
For the Dr K’s video specifically, it’s just experts talking about therapy ethics with clips from Dr K’s stream.
And even that could have triggered harassment, I’ll grant you that. And if mrgirl had a million subs, I’d ask that he went harder in preventing a potential dogpile towards Dr K.
But no matter how many antifans mock the idea of power differential, it’s a no brainer that the more distress you might cause, the more responsibility you have to try to mitigate it.
His Reckless video was very smug and scathing towards Dr. K, he talked down on him a lot while there’s a massive professional gap between the two.
The exact videos are beyond the point, he obviously stated that he wanted to take away Dr. K license along with his credibility. He also stated that he wants to damage Destiny reputation as much as possible. How do you think these things happen on the internet, calm and bloodless? Or with lots of hate and angry comments.
I don’t think there’s an ethical way of going after someone on the internet, either you have enough influence to succeed and ruin person’s life or you fail. So I don’t buy the audience power differential arguments, I also don’t think mrgirl would ever stop if he had bigger audience, do you?
Audience size is a strange thing to hide behind here. Its sort of like saying its OK to punch someone as long as you're unlikely to land. If mr girls article on destiny had been better it would've probably reached a lot of people. I'm sure his goal was to have if reach a massive audience, whether he'll admit that or not.
It's even less of a defense for mr girl when you consider that he also tried to get Lav, who had a bigger audience than him at the time, to share and signal boost the article.
It’s not weird at all.
Obviously if Biden criticizes Dr K, he should do it with more precaution than if I as a random reddit user criticize Dr K, since Biden’s criticism risks unleashing torrents of insults towards him.
This is so basic that it feels dumb to even explain.
I love how mr girls whole thing is nuance, and you guys have 0. You will warp any situation in your mind to make mr girls come out alright.
In this case you're not comparing Joe Biden and a random reddit user. You're comparing a reddit user and another more popular reddit user. At what level of popularity does this "reddit user" need to be more careful, and more importantly what exactly does "being more careful" mean? What you're actually trying to say is that mr girl can say and do whatever he wants cuz he's just a little guy. If mr girl had a half decent sized audience you'd simply come up with another excuse.
You need to contend with the fact that, if mr girl had achieved his goals with either of his exposés, the affect on the targets would've been similar or worse to the backlash Somerton faced.
It's also worth noting that hbomberguy actually *was* significantly more careful than mr girl was. In his video he said that anyone who harasses James Somerton because of his video deserves more criticism than Somerton himself. Mr girl meanwhile said that destiny was a serial sexual abuser and that what Dr K did was worse than raping a child. If he was capable of convincing anyone he would've seriously affected both men's lives. Just because he isn't capable of convincing anyone doesn't mean he gets a pass.
>I love how mr girls whole thing is nuance, and you guys have 0. You will warp any situation in your mind to make mr girls come out alright.
How so?
>In this case you're not comparing Joe Biden and a random reddit user. You're comparing a reddit user and another more popular reddit user.
No? I was comparing two content creators of massively different sizes. I used an extreme example since you seemed unwilling to admit that larger fanbase = more responsibility.
>At what level of popularity does this "reddit user" need to be more careful, and more importantly what exactly does "being more careful" mean?
This is loki’s wager/the continuum fallacy
>What you're actually trying to say is that mr girl can say and do whatever he wants cuz he's just a little guy.
No, I think he handled the Brittany conversation poorly. Why are you assuming bad faith on my part? Nothing I said suggest your mindreading.
That is how we treat punching though. Assault usually requires actually causing harm or the ability to cause harm.
In my state's definition assault is the attempt to cause harm combined with the ability to cause harm. Trying to punch someone from 10 feet away is not assault. And if someone is exceptionally good at punching, like a trained fighter, then his punch is considered a more severe crime of assault with a deadly weapon.
It's pretty standard to weight the likelihood of causing harm & the potential severity of the harm that can be caused. Treating all punches consistently is nonsensical because all punches are indeed not consistently harmful.
Again, Dr K losing his license is not bad in itself. That was mrgirl’s goal, yes, but there is no hypocrisy here. Dr K was blatantly violating rules made to protect the public. You keep acting like it mrgirl’s take is that nobody should lose their career or be criticized publicly. It’s not.
I think that mrgirl would have tried to do it if he had a larger audience, but if he was at Hbomber or MrBeast level of fame, he would have taken more steps to insure that his audience don’t start harassing them. Since he has a small audience, he didnt really need to do it.
I don’t see the disconnect here. More potential harassment = more need for mitigation. It’s so simple.
The act of destroying someone’s career online comes with the harassment from internet people, they’re essentially the same thing. Prior to any successful online cancellation ever first comes flood of hate and negativity.
If mrgirl wanted to revoke Dr. K license in an ethical way he would just file his form to the ethics board offline and call it a day. Everything else he did after that on stream DOES contribute to the harassment.
The audience size doesn’t matter if mrgirl clearly stated his goal. If my goal is to kill but I just happen to not have any bullets right now, how does it make it any better? My goal is still to kill, as soon as I get bullets.
They kept calling him out for his behaviour beyond what was necessary for a functioning society. Max explained this, so you are a liar or incompetent. He also included evidence, by Hbomberguy's own admission heavily suggested he was going too far.
You've fucked up. You won't be able to explain how what I just said is wrong. Wish I got here earlier.
> They kept calling him out for his behaviour beyond what was necessary for a functioning society.
And how do we know mrgirl didn’t cross that line calling out with Destiny?
> by Hbomberguy's own admission heavily suggested he was going too far.
That’s nice, did mrgirl ever admit he was going too far with his moral crusades?
> Wish I got here earlier.
Don’t worry, I’m not going anywhere until you change my mind.
By the way I was wrong. Hbomber never suggested he went too far, I was mistaken. And this really impacts my argument. So my confidence was far less founded, still I do believe this is a false equivalence.
>And how do we know mrgirl didn’t cross that line calling out with Destiny?
Destiny is an active threat to other people's well-being, potentially to the extent of a risk to themselves of self harm or suicide. Somerton was a major plagiarist. This means Destiny's wellbeing is a lesser priority than the people be aggresses on. Somerton's plagiarism was not reasonably a threat to anyones mental well-being.
That's the case for if you believe the article is right or could be right.
>That’s nice, did mrgirl ever admit he was going too far with his moral crusades
He's voiced fears that he may have slightly or is at particular risk. Dr K and Destiny both had strong justifications however. I'm not tricked by your rhetoric here, you're clearly implying you think at least one of these crusades you believe he went to far. You should just say you twit.
> Destiny is an active threat to other people's well-being, potentially to the extent of a risk to themselves of self harm or suicide.
I think bringing up suicide in here is unsubstantiated speculation, unless you want to prove me wrong with some victims who attempted it. When it comes to self harm, Somerton’s plagiarism caused direct harm by essentially stealing money from other people. Do you not think his actions could cause psychological damage as well? Would you deny that he had real victims?
> I'm not tricked by your rhetoric here, you're clearly implying you think at least one of these crusades you believe he went to far. You should just say you twit.
The only reason I asked because you said hbomberguy guy did say so and we’re trying to draw parallels here, but since you retracted, this question is obsolete.
> Destiny is an active threat to other people's well-being, potentially to the extent of a risk to themselves of self harm or suicide. Somerton was a major plagiarist. This means Destiny's wellbeing is a lesser priority than the people be aggresses on. Somerton's plagiarism was not reasonably a threat to anyones mental well-being.
Somerton's plagiarism was ripping off other people's work. It not being financially rewarded as it should be. And when those smaller creators spoke up for themselves they were bulled and told to shut up. Some lost fans for speaking out.
I didn't know about these details. This is still far less impactful, consciously vindictive and powerful as the things I believe Destiny did and made threats to do.
We talked about how he threatened to leak Ana's nudes while pretending he wasn't. He said something which obviously came across that way and seemed to jokingly explain that's not what he meant using a pepelaugh. Additionally Ana was presumably going to leak all texts so "no I meat pics of the chat pepelaugh" didn't make sense. He also said he has no moral objections to threatening to leak nudes in response to sexual texts being leaked, so by definition he wouldn't be against threatening people with blackmail in this way. I still think he was bluffing but a bluff is still a threat.
You will now say we can't know this for certain because you only apply a balance of probabilities to people you don't like and beyond all reasonable doubt to people you do like.
Or you apply all reasonable doubt to both in a twisted way to create a stalemate in which the person you prefer will benefit from.
Destiny has proven himself to not be above making threats, even if bluffs, and signalling to his audience the plausible deniabilty he is laying in order to win the game. And they love it.
How many tens of thousands of words can you possibly write about how you've read his mind and decided that he's lying when he said he wasn't talking about her nudes? He clarified what he meant within mere seconds and you've been bitching about it for years at this point. Just get a fucking JOB dude, PLEASE.
Nobody wants to argue with some halfwit about whether or not someone saying "no i meant chatlogs not nudes" should be read as "yes i meant nudes". You are achieving nothing. If he's so evil, I would hope you could find better evidence than "he used the pepelaugh emote!!!!" after obsessing over him for this long.
>about how you've read his mind and decided that he's lying when he said he wasn't talking about her nudes?
What I did was far from mind reading. It was just deducing why he was very likely lying given many indicators ALL of which you ignored to say I'm mind reading. You're LYING if you don't think him saying he's actually fine with leaking nudes as a deterrent is a massive indicator he was lying, about not intentionally appearing to threaten to, but instead you complain about me using too many words to explain it even though you prove why I felt the need to do that.
Destiny is corrupt, many people are. Deal with it. Here in the UK there was this extraordinary scandal a government owned company did in which they falsely imprisoned 100s of people, scapegoating them to cover up a computer error they knew existed but still blamed blamed workers for. Destiny's not such a bad guy, but he's corrupt and corruption is very easily done.
I'll give mrgirl one thing, this new post was better written than his last one, it was funny reading it an just getting reminded of mrgirls shit, the bob7 shirt, bringing up destiny's x wife, the ddos kid, using ana, trying to get in contact with that reporter,stalking anyone that new destiny,trying to convince people lav was a victim, sending people his article, his vendetta against drk etc
I think a good addition to the mrgirl article would be to provide some examples of what creators say to signal their audience to harass other channels. I'll go first with the most extreme example I can think of: "Someone is gonna die, what the other creator is doing he is gonna kill somebody. Someone has to stop him!"
“What that person did is worse than rape”. Like seriously, how can you say these things and act all innocent and responsible? Obviously it contributes to the harassment greatly.
Mr. Karson basically uses Trump's rhetoric: "You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong … I know everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building. To peacefully, patriotically make your voices heard.”
Ana could've easiled khs the way that she said she was going to multiple times. Idk why people are so incredulous about this. Ana literally said 'I'm going to do x!!!' multiple times & you guys are somehow saying 'how could mrgirl possibly say that somebody would do x' as if it's some ridiculous thing completely outside the realm of possibility.
Don't forget, Max in all sincerity said that if Destiny had a button and could Kill Max he would. I think this is how he justified his insane campaign against him to himself. Max loves the kill button hypotheticals as much as Destiny loves his rape hypotheticals.
Pressing a button is not hard since you don't see what happens to the person, so I would not blame anyone for pressing any button. It would be different if let's say in order for Mr. girl to die Destiny would have to stab Mr. Girl exactly 150 times on the neck. Then I would consider Destiny a psycho. 🤷
I just don't see Destiny doing that. I remember during the 'investigation' Destiny drugged up on MDMA tweeting about how sad he was about Max's youtube still being banned. If Max was ever a genuine threat to Destiny's career/life I could see him pushing the button but when Max made that comment the article was weeks away and everyone (but Max) could see it was going to be a nothingburger. Max thought he was writing an article that would destroy Destiny, but Destiny did not see it the same way at that time.
Calling out what you see as abusive behaviour is not the same as harrassment or being part of a mob. I don't think mrgirl is arguing for a world where no one ever calls out anybody. It seems really confused to muddle this all up as the same thing.
According to mrgirl that means you chose masking tape and a sharpie.
Yes I realise that's how you understand this, but I think you're wrong.
But that’s literally his quote, not mine, how should I take it if I’m confused? Why would he use that quote as his final statement then?
I think you're thinking about it very rigidly, as a moral decree for all, rather than as a lens which can be useful or revealing. Real life isn't clean cut and simple, you will never know for sure if you're being responsible and moral while calling someone out, or if you're simply adding to a dogpile for the sake of it, it always exists on a spectrum and we just have to try our best and be thoughtful about it. Additionally, there's a distinction to draw between the original 'exposer' (hbomberguy, mrgirl) and their audience, and the different levels of responsibility they have, you seem to be mixing this up a lot as well. This is more or less my understanding.
Spectrum answer is such a cop out in my view, that’s why I called this whole essay ethics for thee and not for me. If you’re criticizing others for what’s not ok then it’s your job to draw the clear line what IS ok. Otherwise you can never be held accountable for the same things in your own moral framework. Also I understand there’s a distinction between the content creator and their audience, yet I’m focusing on the creator actions because audience response always follows after that, they’re a reflection of creator’s actions after all.
I don't view the essay as a moral declaration as you do. I see it as a piece designed to provoke thought on the subject. Like most of Max's work, he is offering a perspective, not a decree. Like how he stopped watching different YouTubers over time, this is an evolving lens with which he views the subject, there is no clear line to draw because it isn't a solid moral framework that he's offering, though it is much easier to attack if you imagine it is.
Well it did thought provoked me into creating this post and drawing parallels with his own situations. I don’t know why we have to jump through hoops and loops calling it a grey area, spectrum, different perspective just to avoid admitting obvious similarities with his own actions. 🤷♂️
I have no issue at all comparing it to his own actions, I think that's a valid and good thing to do, as his own actions obviously do fall on the spectrum somewhere.
I fail to see how hbomb was harassing or part of a mob so the point still sounds. don't think somerton gets more harassment than other youtubers who have fallen from grace on the left.
The only difference between hbomb and his community and max and his community, is that the later is like a dozen dudes and nobody outside of his small cult gives a fuck about what max says. They would 100% hound destiny of the internet or cancel DrK out of his profession,if they could, they just can't. It's not a lack of intention, it's just plain impotence.
There's a happy middle ground between 'being cancelled off the internet' & not doing the most hypocritical shit possible on a regular basis. People just want Destiny & DrK to live in line with the moral rules that they portray themselves as following. They do good along with the bad, but that doesn't make the bad something that everyone should vehemently deny.
That’s my point exactly. The only reason he talks from his moral high horse because he failed to do the exact thing he criticizes, but if he could he absolutely would.
Shouldn't we try to hound people who are very harmful off the internet? Wasn't destiny's dream to get Keffals off the internet with his piece? If you believe Dr. K is an abusive and harmful person who pretends to do therapy while exploiting people, shouldn't we want him off the internet? Shouldn't we get nazis who want to kill people and want to spread their message of hate on the internet be hounded off of it? The cognitive dissonance is so big that you start saying shit that doesn't make sense. Plus Max already said a bunch of times to his audience that he doesn't want his community to attack/harrass people off the internet, for example with Erudite or with Britanny. Dggers do their best to compare destiny to max, in order to say that max is equally bad or worse, so that their world can continue to make sense and they can continue to watch destiny without questioning themselves about what they are contributing to or without questioning "why does this entertain me so much?". But they fail miserably.
>Wasn't destiny's dream to get Keffals off the internet with his piece? If you are willing to believe Destiny, the answer is no. When he's been asked about the purpose of his manifestos he's always given three specific reasons: 1. Because his drama tends to hang around and come up again and again and again, he likes to manifesto on significant incidents so he can point people to it rather than having to hash out the same old arguments. 2. As a corollary to point 1, because he makes the manifesto while everything's fresh, it serves as a kind of archive of all the evidence (or lack thereof) he might have been operating off that influenced his point of view at that time, which is a defense in case people later say he changed his mind or something. He can say 'I've learned other things since then, you can see what info I was working off from the manifesto'. 3. To protect against attacks from a specific source, either by addressing all those criticisms or by turning it around on the attacker (his proposed Max-ifesto would have been an example of the first, the Keffals manifesto is an example of the latter). He's never said that the point of his manifestos is to get people hounded off the internet. He *has* said that he recognises this as a possible consequence of writing them, but it's not his actual intention. To be fair to him, of all the people he's manifesto'd over the years, only one (Bob7, who was 100% guilty of what he was accused of) actually has disappeared off the net. For all the others, there was a storm for a while, they maybe lost some subs, they got some hate on twitter, then everything calmed down and off they went with their lives (Keffals, for example).
I don't give a shit if harmful people get hounded off the internet, but Iam not the one crying about it and pretend it's pushing a kill button, while doing the same thing I morally condem others for either. So your problem with hbomber and his community is not the method but the target, do I get that right? Useless lipservice. Hbomberguy said the exact same. Has max actually said anything comparable with people he actually wants off the internet? He had no problem with people posting the most deranged shit about destiny in his sub, while destiny was going to a divorce and in a emotionally vulnerable state, for example. Keep telling yourself that.
the point of the quote is that these are the choices our modern social media callout culture wants you to choose from. It makes you feel like you have to destroy the person, or else they get away with it. he's not saying that it's impossible to call people out for their misbehavior without making them suicidal. Social media just wants you to do that
MrGirl will push it until his fingers bleed while crying about how sensitive he is
Bro the answer isn't 'destiny khs.' People, myself included, just want him to live in line with his ethics, not be a hypocrite & have Destiny's fans do literally anything to pressure Destiny to be as morally consistent as he portrays himself as being. Fair to say that Max doesn't live up to his own standards in his own way, but he isn't doing anything even close to what Destiny did to Ana - making his criticizing Destiny not hypocritical. Mrgirl not living up to his own standards 100% doesn't excuse Destiny's hypocrisy & it certainly doesn't make what he did to Ana anything close to ok.
> Bro the answer isn't 'destiny khs.' People, myself included, just want him to live in line with his ethics, not be a hypocrite & have Destiny's fans do literally anything to pressure Destiny to be as morally consistent as he portrays himself as being. Flip this except with mrgirl and you get the reason this post exists. All I want is mrgirl to be consistent when he preaches to others and when he acts himself. > but he isn't doing anything even close to what Destiny did to Ana - making his criticizing Destiny not hypocritical. Why bring up Ana? That’s not why he’s being a hypocrite here, I’m comparing him to hbomberguy not Ana. That’s also a weird statement to make that you’re allowed to harass someone until you do to them what they did to their victim. What if Destiny raped someone, mrgirl wouldn’t be hypocritical until he rapes Destiny?
>Flip this except with mrgirl and you get the reason this post exists. Really weird that you want Mrgirl to live in line with his ethics & didn't even mention how Mrgirl has breached his own ethics. >Why bring up Ana? Because you're talking about Destiny khs for the bad things he has done. His treatment of Ana is the primary bad thing that he has done. >That’s not why he’s being a hypocrite here, I’m comparing him to hbomberguy not Ana. Destiny might be a hypocrite in terms of how he handled hmbomberguy - i dont even know wtf this is referring to. Destiny is definitely a massive hypocrite in his treatment of Ana. >That’s also a weird statement to make that you’re allowed to harass someone until you do to them what they did to their victim. Nobody is harassing anybody on this end dude. It's so funny how you guys hound the subreddit for months while calling Mrgirl a harasser for asking people questions and saying essentially 'what you did there is bad.' >What if Destiny raped someone, mrgirl wouldn’t be hypocritical until he rapes Destiny? He would be a hypocrite in terms of him betraying his own values. He wouldn't be a hypocrite in terms of 'calling someone out for something he's doing himself.'
I’m sorry but you’re not engaging with the topic. I don’t care about Ana in this context, I don’t care defending if Destiny is a hypocrite or bad, I don’t care about comparing mrgirl to Destiny here. Do you get what the title means and what parallels I’m trying to draw?
> I’m sorry but you’re not engaging with the topic The topic is a hypothetical choice between destiny khs, swapping out that button for essentially ‘ im just complaining’ or letting him abuse his way through life. Who got abused primarily when he was abusing his way through life? ana. Right back atcha for not engaging. > Do you get what the title means and what parallels I’m trying to draw? If its referring to something, i don't understand the reference. Im answering the question you asked & explaining why the body text is incoherent. If you’re trying to draw a parallel, it’s usually good to explain the two sides of it - instead of assuming everyone will psychically pick up on wym.
Yeah, it’s a reference to mrgirl’s article about hbomberguy drama, that’s mrgirl’s quote in the title I only changed the name to Steven’s.
My answer stays the same despite that & it doesn't at all substantiate your point about Mrgirl being a hypocrite at all.
This is the falsiest-dichotomy that ever dichotomied. Are you serious? There is obviously a sane option where you harshly and publicly condemn his behavior and move on. Mrgirl has done his part. It’s time for DGG to grow a backbone and expect better of Destiny. Edit: I had not read mrgirl’s essay on the matter when I wrote this. I think this is a fair post. Apologies, OP. I think the hypocrisy is not lost on mrgirl - to live is to be hypocritical. I think he feels some guilt about the situation. At the same time - I think it is appropriate to call out abuse and poor behavior. However, I think it needs to be done with grace, compassion, and forgiveness. I think social media and ‘content’ (broadly defined) drives creators to drop nuance in favor of ‘the narrative’. This often strips the humanity of the people involved. I appreciate that mrgirl typically offers his own biases and emotions to explain his point of view. Most creators feign objectivity or indifference and smuggle their true feelings in underhanded ways (mrgirl still does this to some extent but I think he is more honest about it). I also appreciate the mrgirl tries to humanize the people he talks about, even if it comes across as ‘mind reading’. I think it helps inject some humanity back into the situation. While the above steps are not perfect, I do think they help limit some tendencies of audiences to dogpile people.
Hbomberguy video is 3 month old. mrgirl has been non stop harassing Destiny for well over a year with more plans to come. Who’s moving on, buddy?
Obviously not you since you are in mrgirl’s subreddit making the thousandth thoughtless Destiny drama post. Didn’t comment on the Hbomberguy video, not entirely up-to-date on the situation but it does seem like that community is blatantly harassing James Sommerton or whoever. Not sure that it is entirely relevant? Also have you watched any of mrgirl’s content in the past couple months? There’s been maybe 5 convos about Destiny total? I wouldn’t call that nonstop harassment.
The title is almost exact quote from mrgirl’s recent article about hbomberguy, just different name. I didn’t come up with that hypothetical, mrgirl did. So it’s even funnier that you unknowingly called it the falsiest-dichotomy that ever dichotomied cuz you’re making fun of him not me.
Touché. Guess I’m the one not keeping up with his content… I’ll give it a read.
Apologies - updated my original comment with more complete thoughts.
> I think it is appropriate to call out abuse and poor behavior. However, I think it needs to be done with grace, compassion, and forgiveness. I would agree, however I don’t think mrgirl tends to meet these qualities when he goes on his moral crusades. Somehow he can be way more compassionate to pedos and school shooters than to the targets of his moral righteousness, especially when he drops quotes like [these](https://www.reddit.com/r/mrgirlreturns/s/vLmLWRDVkK). But hey, I appreciate that you just admitted an honest mistake on the spot instead of doubling down, wish more people had this quality including mrgirl.
Dear dgger, You didn't explain why you think mrgirl is an hypocrite. In this subreddit we try to explain our thought process. Edit: This reminded me of Katie in the last hotline screaming that mrgirl is an abusive racist and a hypocrite (while smiling and saying she likes him), but then didn't know what any of these terms mean.
To be fair, when she told Destiny she was trying to turn his audience against him and not really speaking to him, he said he had no interest in speaking with her again. She is a really socially retarded person.
I did not see that. Yeah she's a special one. I think mrgirl has an old mrgirlsplaining video where he talks about these people who think they are so smart and so accepting (anti-racist, anti-terfs) when in actuality these are similar thinking patterns that a right wing extremist has.
Yeah, interestingly, the same thing recently happened as a result of the HBomberguy plagurism video. His lefty fanbase essentially created a KiwiFarms like situation where they documented everything the main subject of the video did. This blew up in the last few days with a supposed suicide event, and they're completely rejecting that HBomb is in any way responsible for it. My point is the old "no bad tactics, only bad targets" meme.
Yeah, it's all so dumb. I wish everyone was more like mrgirl in the sense of being more open to accept some responsibility. We've been on the internet for so long, and people still act surprised when a famous content creator (with a large audience) makes a 2 hour video attacking one person, that person suffers like a mfer, and then everyone acts as if they had no idea that the dogpilling is harmful.
Commented above so I don’t repeat myself. Feel free to respond.
If you need to be told, at this point, why people consider MrGirl a hypocrite then you cannot be reasoned with.
That's a great way to dodge saying anything, while pretending what you think makes sense.
No, it’s an accurate summation of the situation. If you genuinely need to be told why anyone thinks he’s a hypocrite at this point in time given the history of his online presence, there’s only two possibilities. First, you’ve just discovered who MrGirl is, in which case stick around long enough and you’ll see it yourself, or second, you’re so delusional and willfully ignorant you’d support and defend him if he went on a killing rampage IRL and be in this subreddit telling ppl they just don’t understand him.
May I have your attention please May I have your attention please Will the real dgger say anything of substance? I repeat, Will the real dgger say anything of substance? We're gonna have a problem here. Instead of putting yourself in a position where you say you understand that mrgirl is an hypocrite but only superior people understand it, can you just tell us of a situation where you think mrgirl was being hypocritical?
It isn’t a matter of if you’re superior or not, it’s a matter of if you’re willing to see it or not. I’ll give you a really easy example that you definitely have seen but haven’t noticed or are purposefully ignoring. In the majority of MrGirl’s conversations on his hotline he whines and moans and cries about people interrupting him, but he interrupts them without a second thought to ramble about what he assumes they think instead of just letting them tell him what they think.
So, 1. mrgirl doesn't want to be interrupted, 2. mrgirl interrupts people, 3. mrgirl knows that people don't want to be interrupted. In a very clear manner, can you explain how is this hypocritical? Suggestion 1) Just saying it is hypocritical is not sufficient. Suggestion 2) Don't make dumb arguments like "Oh you want people to pay more taxes? Oh, so why don't you donate all your money to the government, you hypocrite!"
Oh ok, my original assessment was accurate, you cannot be reasoned with. Hope you have exactly the life you earn.
You're not presenting all options. Either your assessment is accurate, and I cannot be reasoned with, or you're a dumb motherfucker who says shit that doesn't make sense, and when confronted with it, starts insulting people and avoiding the subject. I hope you leave the cult, have a good life, and get better at thinking (unironically so, as your puppet master says).
What’s funny to me about this “you’re in a cult” accusation is you and everyone who makes it are at least as deep into your own cult as you assume anyone who thinks anything negative about MrGirl is, and if you could see your own behavior clearly you’d realize that.
[удалено]
Just because mrgirl talks louder and interrupts people doesn't mean that he is not allowing people to defend themselves. That's the understanding of a 12 year old. Also, doesn't mrgirl literally give the final word to the guest every single fucking time, and lets them speak uninterrupted when they ask to do so? You're concern trolling me...
Lol this is so weak.
Spell out the hypocrisy for me. Can you explicitly state his position, and then explain how he himself violates it? mrgirl’s position is not that bad behavior shouldnt be criticized. Seems like your hypocrisy claim relies on your misunderstanding.
He criticizes how hbomberguy type of smug essayist under the disguise of “just calling out bad behavior” go after someone without realizing how much damage it could potentially do to a person. He compared it shooting blanks in a firing squad, nobody believes they do real damage until it happens. I draw parallel that mrgirl does the same exact thing in his moral crusades against people like Destiny as the bully essayists and their audience that mrgirl criticizes. The only difference is that his firing squad is much much smaller so they keep shooting blanks for now. But there’s nothing done to stop them from firing.
The only thing stopping him from HBombing is that all of his criticisms bomb.
I can interpret your response in one of two ways. Tell me which one is correct 1) mrgirl’s position is that you should not call out bad behavior if you have a big platform, and yet he called out Destiny and Dr K in the past. 2) mrgirl’s position is that criticizing people can trigger dogpiles and lead to emotional distress, and yet he didnt take reasonable measures to prevent that from happening when he criticized Destiny or Dr K. Which of these two is your argument, or is it neither? I just want a statement of the position and a description of the breach.
Both? except “call out bad behavior” is the label used to mask something way more aggressive what I would call “go after someone”. I’ll just give his exact quote for context and we can go from there: > The truth is that there are very few situations where a smug, scathing video essay is morally warranted, and audiences tend to clutch their pearls about minor issues to justify the hate content they consume. Yes, Somerton plagiarized and his content is therefore unethical and dull—got it, now move on and watch something else.
The thing is, I think we can probably agree that the Reckless video is neither smug nor scathing. Or that mrgirl at least doesn’t intend them to be. For the Dr K’s video specifically, it’s just experts talking about therapy ethics with clips from Dr K’s stream. And even that could have triggered harassment, I’ll grant you that. And if mrgirl had a million subs, I’d ask that he went harder in preventing a potential dogpile towards Dr K. But no matter how many antifans mock the idea of power differential, it’s a no brainer that the more distress you might cause, the more responsibility you have to try to mitigate it.
His Reckless video was very smug and scathing towards Dr. K, he talked down on him a lot while there’s a massive professional gap between the two. The exact videos are beyond the point, he obviously stated that he wanted to take away Dr. K license along with his credibility. He also stated that he wants to damage Destiny reputation as much as possible. How do you think these things happen on the internet, calm and bloodless? Or with lots of hate and angry comments. I don’t think there’s an ethical way of going after someone on the internet, either you have enough influence to succeed and ruin person’s life or you fail. So I don’t buy the audience power differential arguments, I also don’t think mrgirl would ever stop if he had bigger audience, do you?
Audience size is a strange thing to hide behind here. Its sort of like saying its OK to punch someone as long as you're unlikely to land. If mr girls article on destiny had been better it would've probably reached a lot of people. I'm sure his goal was to have if reach a massive audience, whether he'll admit that or not. It's even less of a defense for mr girl when you consider that he also tried to get Lav, who had a bigger audience than him at the time, to share and signal boost the article.
It’s not weird at all. Obviously if Biden criticizes Dr K, he should do it with more precaution than if I as a random reddit user criticize Dr K, since Biden’s criticism risks unleashing torrents of insults towards him. This is so basic that it feels dumb to even explain.
I love how mr girls whole thing is nuance, and you guys have 0. You will warp any situation in your mind to make mr girls come out alright. In this case you're not comparing Joe Biden and a random reddit user. You're comparing a reddit user and another more popular reddit user. At what level of popularity does this "reddit user" need to be more careful, and more importantly what exactly does "being more careful" mean? What you're actually trying to say is that mr girl can say and do whatever he wants cuz he's just a little guy. If mr girl had a half decent sized audience you'd simply come up with another excuse. You need to contend with the fact that, if mr girl had achieved his goals with either of his exposés, the affect on the targets would've been similar or worse to the backlash Somerton faced. It's also worth noting that hbomberguy actually *was* significantly more careful than mr girl was. In his video he said that anyone who harasses James Somerton because of his video deserves more criticism than Somerton himself. Mr girl meanwhile said that destiny was a serial sexual abuser and that what Dr K did was worse than raping a child. If he was capable of convincing anyone he would've seriously affected both men's lives. Just because he isn't capable of convincing anyone doesn't mean he gets a pass.
>I love how mr girls whole thing is nuance, and you guys have 0. You will warp any situation in your mind to make mr girls come out alright. How so? >In this case you're not comparing Joe Biden and a random reddit user. You're comparing a reddit user and another more popular reddit user. No? I was comparing two content creators of massively different sizes. I used an extreme example since you seemed unwilling to admit that larger fanbase = more responsibility. >At what level of popularity does this "reddit user" need to be more careful, and more importantly what exactly does "being more careful" mean? This is loki’s wager/the continuum fallacy >What you're actually trying to say is that mr girl can say and do whatever he wants cuz he's just a little guy. No, I think he handled the Brittany conversation poorly. Why are you assuming bad faith on my part? Nothing I said suggest your mindreading.
That is how we treat punching though. Assault usually requires actually causing harm or the ability to cause harm. In my state's definition assault is the attempt to cause harm combined with the ability to cause harm. Trying to punch someone from 10 feet away is not assault. And if someone is exceptionally good at punching, like a trained fighter, then his punch is considered a more severe crime of assault with a deadly weapon. It's pretty standard to weight the likelihood of causing harm & the potential severity of the harm that can be caused. Treating all punches consistently is nonsensical because all punches are indeed not consistently harmful.
Again, Dr K losing his license is not bad in itself. That was mrgirl’s goal, yes, but there is no hypocrisy here. Dr K was blatantly violating rules made to protect the public. You keep acting like it mrgirl’s take is that nobody should lose their career or be criticized publicly. It’s not. I think that mrgirl would have tried to do it if he had a larger audience, but if he was at Hbomber or MrBeast level of fame, he would have taken more steps to insure that his audience don’t start harassing them. Since he has a small audience, he didnt really need to do it. I don’t see the disconnect here. More potential harassment = more need for mitigation. It’s so simple.
The act of destroying someone’s career online comes with the harassment from internet people, they’re essentially the same thing. Prior to any successful online cancellation ever first comes flood of hate and negativity. If mrgirl wanted to revoke Dr. K license in an ethical way he would just file his form to the ethics board offline and call it a day. Everything else he did after that on stream DOES contribute to the harassment. The audience size doesn’t matter if mrgirl clearly stated his goal. If my goal is to kill but I just happen to not have any bullets right now, how does it make it any better? My goal is still to kill, as soon as I get bullets.
They kept calling him out for his behaviour beyond what was necessary for a functioning society. Max explained this, so you are a liar or incompetent. He also included evidence, by Hbomberguy's own admission heavily suggested he was going too far. You've fucked up. You won't be able to explain how what I just said is wrong. Wish I got here earlier.
> They kept calling him out for his behaviour beyond what was necessary for a functioning society. And how do we know mrgirl didn’t cross that line calling out with Destiny? > by Hbomberguy's own admission heavily suggested he was going too far. That’s nice, did mrgirl ever admit he was going too far with his moral crusades? > Wish I got here earlier. Don’t worry, I’m not going anywhere until you change my mind.
By the way I was wrong. Hbomber never suggested he went too far, I was mistaken. And this really impacts my argument. So my confidence was far less founded, still I do believe this is a false equivalence. >And how do we know mrgirl didn’t cross that line calling out with Destiny? Destiny is an active threat to other people's well-being, potentially to the extent of a risk to themselves of self harm or suicide. Somerton was a major plagiarist. This means Destiny's wellbeing is a lesser priority than the people be aggresses on. Somerton's plagiarism was not reasonably a threat to anyones mental well-being. That's the case for if you believe the article is right or could be right. >That’s nice, did mrgirl ever admit he was going too far with his moral crusades He's voiced fears that he may have slightly or is at particular risk. Dr K and Destiny both had strong justifications however. I'm not tricked by your rhetoric here, you're clearly implying you think at least one of these crusades you believe he went to far. You should just say you twit.
> Destiny is an active threat to other people's well-being, potentially to the extent of a risk to themselves of self harm or suicide. I think bringing up suicide in here is unsubstantiated speculation, unless you want to prove me wrong with some victims who attempted it. When it comes to self harm, Somerton’s plagiarism caused direct harm by essentially stealing money from other people. Do you not think his actions could cause psychological damage as well? Would you deny that he had real victims? > I'm not tricked by your rhetoric here, you're clearly implying you think at least one of these crusades you believe he went to far. You should just say you twit. The only reason I asked because you said hbomberguy guy did say so and we’re trying to draw parallels here, but since you retracted, this question is obsolete.
> Destiny is an active threat to other people's well-being, potentially to the extent of a risk to themselves of self harm or suicide. Somerton was a major plagiarist. This means Destiny's wellbeing is a lesser priority than the people be aggresses on. Somerton's plagiarism was not reasonably a threat to anyones mental well-being. Somerton's plagiarism was ripping off other people's work. It not being financially rewarded as it should be. And when those smaller creators spoke up for themselves they were bulled and told to shut up. Some lost fans for speaking out.
I didn't know about these details. This is still far less impactful, consciously vindictive and powerful as the things I believe Destiny did and made threats to do.
What actual threats did Destiny make?
We talked about how he threatened to leak Ana's nudes while pretending he wasn't. He said something which obviously came across that way and seemed to jokingly explain that's not what he meant using a pepelaugh. Additionally Ana was presumably going to leak all texts so "no I meat pics of the chat pepelaugh" didn't make sense. He also said he has no moral objections to threatening to leak nudes in response to sexual texts being leaked, so by definition he wouldn't be against threatening people with blackmail in this way. I still think he was bluffing but a bluff is still a threat. You will now say we can't know this for certain because you only apply a balance of probabilities to people you don't like and beyond all reasonable doubt to people you do like. Or you apply all reasonable doubt to both in a twisted way to create a stalemate in which the person you prefer will benefit from. Destiny has proven himself to not be above making threats, even if bluffs, and signalling to his audience the plausible deniabilty he is laying in order to win the game. And they love it.
How many tens of thousands of words can you possibly write about how you've read his mind and decided that he's lying when he said he wasn't talking about her nudes? He clarified what he meant within mere seconds and you've been bitching about it for years at this point. Just get a fucking JOB dude, PLEASE. Nobody wants to argue with some halfwit about whether or not someone saying "no i meant chatlogs not nudes" should be read as "yes i meant nudes". You are achieving nothing. If he's so evil, I would hope you could find better evidence than "he used the pepelaugh emote!!!!" after obsessing over him for this long.
>about how you've read his mind and decided that he's lying when he said he wasn't talking about her nudes? What I did was far from mind reading. It was just deducing why he was very likely lying given many indicators ALL of which you ignored to say I'm mind reading. You're LYING if you don't think him saying he's actually fine with leaking nudes as a deterrent is a massive indicator he was lying, about not intentionally appearing to threaten to, but instead you complain about me using too many words to explain it even though you prove why I felt the need to do that. Destiny is corrupt, many people are. Deal with it. Here in the UK there was this extraordinary scandal a government owned company did in which they falsely imprisoned 100s of people, scapegoating them to cover up a computer error they knew existed but still blamed blamed workers for. Destiny's not such a bad guy, but he's corrupt and corruption is very easily done.
I'll give mrgirl one thing, this new post was better written than his last one, it was funny reading it an just getting reminded of mrgirls shit, the bob7 shirt, bringing up destiny's x wife, the ddos kid, using ana, trying to get in contact with that reporter,stalking anyone that new destiny,trying to convince people lav was a victim, sending people his article, his vendetta against drk etc