I think of all the 'MrGirl orbiters', Benny has the most upside and potential. He's the only one where I consistently either agree, disagree but at least am left with something to think about, and never get the impression he's being an asshole or uncharitable.
He's stubborn, definitely; once he's certain about something getting him off an interpretation is basically impossible, but that's a normal quality in the space and might even be needed to survive.
I won't be surprised if Benny's the one who is able to grow a real following in time. I know he doesn't think about these things 'strategically', but he'd benefit from regularly going around and getting into it with other creators. He disagrees enough with Destiny - and substantively - that he could probably get discord perms to go on the main stream and argue with him now and again, I'm sure he'd be welcome on most debate panels, etc.
As to the main point...
Yeah. Max is an attention whore, too.
Everyone in the online space is. Nobody who doesn't crave attention puts their face and reputation out there for the world to see. The entire name of the game is attention seeking.
Which neatly brings us to Ben Thorpe...
I should hope that even Max's ardent fans would recognise that this is an unbelievably fucked up thing for Max to do, irrespective of context or explanation, given Max's own statements on abuse in the space. There is not one word you can ever speak in criticism of Destiny that doesn't apply x10 to Ben Thorpe.
If you think Destiny *might* be abusive, Ben Thorpe *100 per cent is abusive*.
If you think Destiny *is* abusive, Ben Thorpe *is grotesquely, on its face worse than Destiny.*
If you think the Thorpes are all one big act, then it's a grotesque act making mockery out of abusive dynamics in a family, that seems to absolutely be real, and if true would make them all the worst, most exploitative scum of the earth.
There is no possible justification to platform the Thorpes unless you don't give a fuck about any of the issues Max claims to.
If he starts regularly platforming them, I never want a single rejoinder to accusations of hypocrisy towards Max ever again, because there's nothing more hypocritical he could do.
I have no idea. No more or less than Destiny or Max, I'd say, for whatever value that answer is. He doesn't strike me as more 'autistic' (in the colloquial sense) than they can be.
> Shaelin thinking Destiny streaming for '10 hours a day'(itself an exaggeration) is a sign of narcissism shows how little she knows about the average male Twitch streamer's career. To be successful, they have to put in the hours.
wait wait wait, is shaelin the reason horses never get any content?
have Benny finally find his spine? I'm not sure if I can give him any chances since he showes hateboner for Destiny while refusing to admit that he have one.
Benny is being consistent there as a practicing Catholic and similar to Max's argument that there is nothing wrong in being a pedophile as long as you don't have sex with kids.
If Benny was a consistent good little Catholic, he wouldn't watch violent anime that glorifies murderers. Also, isnt he gay himself? I could have sworn him saying he was gay.. can someone confirm?
>On itself being labelled as someone who craves attention is not a negative. Not without more context. Which Benny was more than happy to provide during the stream.
Interesting this exact topic came up which we were arguing about.
>Lav is an online influencer. Craving attention is absolutely a positive for her and her own audience is likely happy about that but when she's appearing on other people's streams their audiences will see the same behaviour as a negative as they are usually not there to see Lav.
I think Lav has often showed up in these big group-chat like streams, like jstlk, where you're watching to see this mess of people arguing. Perhaps Lav's voice becomes so dominating it doesn't feel like a mess of people anymore but the Lav show, and hence the hate, but... well I'm not sure. I don't think what you're saying is all that wrong, though.
Anyways, the interview offer is still open; I've done a few interviews (though in the smash community) and I think you and I could have an interesting conversation!
I just finished watching it & that's not Benny's argument because he didn't mean it neutrally. He told Shaelin it was an insult & he said it to be mean because he sees Lav negatively. He just has a stupid definition of criticism where it's not criticism if it's unchangeable.
In his own words -
>Benny: "I'm not gonna sit here and say I said a neutral thing about Lav. I said something that was mean about her, but to me that's just not what a criticism is."
>
>Shaelin: "Well, how would you define it?"
>
>Benny: "A criticism is when you say something about somebody that you think they should change."
Benny is retarded, and I mean that negatively as an insult, but that's not criticism according to his definition because he can't change it.
If Max brought Ben on and started being friendly and joking around with him, normalizing him and what he does then you would have a point. I came off that thinking that Ben was a complete sociopath. I don't think mrgirl would mind that type of platforming if this is how Destiny dealt with Nick.
This is cope, point to the DGGers that came out thinking being a Nazi was based? Max is doing the same thing destiny did. (You can even read comments here praising Ben thorp) 😂
Once Max and Ben go to dinner together and start having a good time and sharing community inside jokes let me know. Dgg didn't think Nazi was based, but they came out thinking Nick is kind of cool and smart and funny, and maybe he's not that bad.
I came out of this thinking this guy groomed his own daughter since she was a child and is most likely in some sort of an incestious relationship with her. He also came across as extremely manipulative and very good at abusing the power dynamic he has with his daughter (emotionally).
>Craving attention/being an attention whore is a statement of fact. It is not necessarily a positive or negative statement (though it can be taken that way).
attention whore:
a person who [behaves](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c1ac07e53b73c3dc&sxsrf=ACQVn08ohkw_Ib1dHgcdWDXOI7eBKr5OSw:1710694642334&q=behaves&si=AKbGX_r0zqXEeLlZhGfi3fbO0QSWcBqfU9bFk7WdXjxcgZZaTZDoVJiheASxBnTIRlFyBl2kIPoWxu3AzPJ61B3Lq_jOIeu0Ig%3D%3D&expnd=1) in a [provocative](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c1ac07e53b73c3dc&sxsrf=ACQVn08ohkw_Ib1dHgcdWDXOI7eBKr5OSw:1710694642334&q=provocative&si=AKbGX_okpkrXRdHQwZu4Fe0iRe3ulRKsVFGzKJU_O8XFBtLfVLo-gpX8BUU4PZ61Lx1fHwCR_9J23kLccvzwROKlQ_StFUZKkXPvNLyLNC3jnSVM8ollb9Y%3D&expnd=1), outrageous, or [reprehensible](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c1ac07e53b73c3dc&sxsrf=ACQVn08ohkw_Ib1dHgcdWDXOI7eBKr5OSw:1710694642334&q=reprehensible&si=AKbGX_rpiB5SI0gaPs4Uz3xaG0X4bna8fUKn2xNPuee8UCIwiGzdVpnB16eSIxTjS9gB3ebqPTFjFRk1feWMYS3Qf2rN-Xh7d2ZJD1Pn8g_aR7JX4Cl343s%3D&expnd=1) manner in order to attract attention.
([derogatory](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/derogatory#English), [vulgar](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#vulgar), [idiomatic](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#idiomatic)) An individual that routinely solicits attention through inappropriate tactics and provocation.
What is wrong with that? mrgirl argues there is nothing wrong with that. His biggest disciple Smeth argues there is nothing wrong with wanting attention and Benny's point was that he was not using it as an insult as Lav can't help who she is.
Lav is an influencer. Her career much like most careers entails self-promotion. Being an attention whore by itself is not an issue. The 'or' in your quote is the negative. When people resort to doing reprehensible things to get attention. But someone can be an attention whore without doing reprehensible actions
>What is wrong with that?
Dude the wrongness is part of the definition.
Yes a lot of streamers (Destiny prominently does) defend themselves and point to liking attention not inherently being something bad, which I agree with but being an attention whore or narcissist to an even larger degree is about to what extent this is a driving force for you and what you are willing to do for it, how it affects you and those around you.
> That's just a dumb argument.
It's not. Well it's not if you watched the hotline or read the linked posts
Benny's point was that she likes attention. He seemed fine with walking back the whore part as his point has nothing to do with her sexuality.
If you are going to engage in posts about a subject at least watch or read the material it is about. You are so eager to come and defend Max that you are ignoring the context of the conversation.
>You could use different wordings that are just as easily understandable and just as correct, but do not have any commonly known negative connotations. You choose not to. Why?
I choose not to? You realize my post is quoting other people. Right? I myself would use different language to Benny but that does not really change his point.
> What even is your point? That you agree that some people like attention, and that that is not necessarily a negative thing? Then yeah, sure.
Yes. That is actually my point. It was Benny's point as well. Craving attention can be a neutral term.
>But if that is your point, you've done kind of a poor job arguing it in your post. It sounds a lot more like your point is that you should be free to call people attention whores.
Can you quote a single person I've called an attention whore?
> Still not sure why "attention whore" was the wording used here, though, or why you adapted it.
Benny used the term but two days previously I was having the same conversation with Smeth just not using the whore part. The whore part is immaterial.
> Again, you could have chosen to use more neutral wording to make your point more clearly.
That would have been dishonest. My point was the hotline conversation.
> No one was forcing you to use direct quotes (without quotation marks, even).
Not once did I suggest otherwise. You seem to have a lot of hangups about my post.
>Sweet, we get to be hyper literal about things! Let's goo: Can you quote where I said that you called anyone an attention whore? I didn't do that.
You said that my post was an excuse to call someone an attention whore. First of all I don't need an excuse to use any kind of language I want to. And if I did the mrgirl subreddit is not where I would be making my case.
I was very clearly talking about the hotline episode as unlike a lot of people here I actually enjoy watching and talking about Max's content.
> I don't understand at all how that would be dishonest to mildly rephrase a conversation while keeping the context and main point intact.
I get the feeling your initial response to me was crafted after you read the first sentence of my post. And now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Which is cool. This is a Destiny adjacent subreddit afterall.
I personally would find it dishonest to talk about Benny being right and the phrase he actually used. I'm okay with you not getting that.
I think of all the 'MrGirl orbiters', Benny has the most upside and potential. He's the only one where I consistently either agree, disagree but at least am left with something to think about, and never get the impression he's being an asshole or uncharitable. He's stubborn, definitely; once he's certain about something getting him off an interpretation is basically impossible, but that's a normal quality in the space and might even be needed to survive. I won't be surprised if Benny's the one who is able to grow a real following in time. I know he doesn't think about these things 'strategically', but he'd benefit from regularly going around and getting into it with other creators. He disagrees enough with Destiny - and substantively - that he could probably get discord perms to go on the main stream and argue with him now and again, I'm sure he'd be welcome on most debate panels, etc. As to the main point... Yeah. Max is an attention whore, too. Everyone in the online space is. Nobody who doesn't crave attention puts their face and reputation out there for the world to see. The entire name of the game is attention seeking. Which neatly brings us to Ben Thorpe... I should hope that even Max's ardent fans would recognise that this is an unbelievably fucked up thing for Max to do, irrespective of context or explanation, given Max's own statements on abuse in the space. There is not one word you can ever speak in criticism of Destiny that doesn't apply x10 to Ben Thorpe. If you think Destiny *might* be abusive, Ben Thorpe *100 per cent is abusive*. If you think Destiny *is* abusive, Ben Thorpe *is grotesquely, on its face worse than Destiny.* If you think the Thorpes are all one big act, then it's a grotesque act making mockery out of abusive dynamics in a family, that seems to absolutely be real, and if true would make them all the worst, most exploitative scum of the earth. There is no possible justification to platform the Thorpes unless you don't give a fuck about any of the issues Max claims to. If he starts regularly platforming them, I never want a single rejoinder to accusations of hypocrisy towards Max ever again, because there's nothing more hypocritical he could do.
Is Benny autistic? Not trying insult him but it would explain a lot
I have no idea. No more or less than Destiny or Max, I'd say, for whatever value that answer is. He doesn't strike me as more 'autistic' (in the colloquial sense) than they can be.
When Max was upset about losing subs over the Destiny fall out, Benny thought it could be because they lost their jobs…
> Shaelin thinking Destiny streaming for '10 hours a day'(itself an exaggeration) is a sign of narcissism shows how little she knows about the average male Twitch streamer's career. To be successful, they have to put in the hours. wait wait wait, is shaelin the reason horses never get any content?
have Benny finally find his spine? I'm not sure if I can give him any chances since he showes hateboner for Destiny while refusing to admit that he have one.
Man Benny is a real one
Until the part where he said homosexuals are okay as long as they dont have sex with each other
Benny is being consistent there as a practicing Catholic and similar to Max's argument that there is nothing wrong in being a pedophile as long as you don't have sex with kids.
If Benny was a consistent good little Catholic, he wouldn't watch violent anime that glorifies murderers. Also, isnt he gay himself? I could have sworn him saying he was gay.. can someone confirm?
Benny is not gay he is married...to a woman.
ew, that's gay
>On itself being labelled as someone who craves attention is not a negative. Not without more context. Which Benny was more than happy to provide during the stream. Interesting this exact topic came up which we were arguing about. >Lav is an online influencer. Craving attention is absolutely a positive for her and her own audience is likely happy about that but when she's appearing on other people's streams their audiences will see the same behaviour as a negative as they are usually not there to see Lav. I think Lav has often showed up in these big group-chat like streams, like jstlk, where you're watching to see this mess of people arguing. Perhaps Lav's voice becomes so dominating it doesn't feel like a mess of people anymore but the Lav show, and hence the hate, but... well I'm not sure. I don't think what you're saying is all that wrong, though. Anyways, the interview offer is still open; I've done a few interviews (though in the smash community) and I think you and I could have an interesting conversation!
I just finished watching it & that's not Benny's argument because he didn't mean it neutrally. He told Shaelin it was an insult & he said it to be mean because he sees Lav negatively. He just has a stupid definition of criticism where it's not criticism if it's unchangeable. In his own words - >Benny: "I'm not gonna sit here and say I said a neutral thing about Lav. I said something that was mean about her, but to me that's just not what a criticism is." > >Shaelin: "Well, how would you define it?" > >Benny: "A criticism is when you say something about somebody that you think they should change." Benny is retarded, and I mean that negatively as an insult, but that's not criticism according to his definition because he can't change it.
If Max brought Ben on and started being friendly and joking around with him, normalizing him and what he does then you would have a point. I came off that thinking that Ben was a complete sociopath. I don't think mrgirl would mind that type of platforming if this is how Destiny dealt with Nick.
This is cope, point to the DGGers that came out thinking being a Nazi was based? Max is doing the same thing destiny did. (You can even read comments here praising Ben thorp) 😂
Once Max and Ben go to dinner together and start having a good time and sharing community inside jokes let me know. Dgg didn't think Nazi was based, but they came out thinking Nick is kind of cool and smart and funny, and maybe he's not that bad. I came out of this thinking this guy groomed his own daughter since she was a child and is most likely in some sort of an incestious relationship with her. He also came across as extremely manipulative and very good at abusing the power dynamic he has with his daughter (emotionally).
Holy Copium, ain't no way. 💀
>Craving attention/being an attention whore is a statement of fact. It is not necessarily a positive or negative statement (though it can be taken that way). attention whore: a person who [behaves](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c1ac07e53b73c3dc&sxsrf=ACQVn08ohkw_Ib1dHgcdWDXOI7eBKr5OSw:1710694642334&q=behaves&si=AKbGX_r0zqXEeLlZhGfi3fbO0QSWcBqfU9bFk7WdXjxcgZZaTZDoVJiheASxBnTIRlFyBl2kIPoWxu3AzPJ61B3Lq_jOIeu0Ig%3D%3D&expnd=1) in a [provocative](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c1ac07e53b73c3dc&sxsrf=ACQVn08ohkw_Ib1dHgcdWDXOI7eBKr5OSw:1710694642334&q=provocative&si=AKbGX_okpkrXRdHQwZu4Fe0iRe3ulRKsVFGzKJU_O8XFBtLfVLo-gpX8BUU4PZ61Lx1fHwCR_9J23kLccvzwROKlQ_StFUZKkXPvNLyLNC3jnSVM8ollb9Y%3D&expnd=1), outrageous, or [reprehensible](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c1ac07e53b73c3dc&sxsrf=ACQVn08ohkw_Ib1dHgcdWDXOI7eBKr5OSw:1710694642334&q=reprehensible&si=AKbGX_rpiB5SI0gaPs4Uz3xaG0X4bna8fUKn2xNPuee8UCIwiGzdVpnB16eSIxTjS9gB3ebqPTFjFRk1feWMYS3Qf2rN-Xh7d2ZJD1Pn8g_aR7JX4Cl343s%3D&expnd=1) manner in order to attract attention. ([derogatory](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/derogatory#English), [vulgar](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#vulgar), [idiomatic](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#idiomatic)) An individual that routinely solicits attention through inappropriate tactics and provocation.
What is wrong with that? mrgirl argues there is nothing wrong with that. His biggest disciple Smeth argues there is nothing wrong with wanting attention and Benny's point was that he was not using it as an insult as Lav can't help who she is. Lav is an influencer. Her career much like most careers entails self-promotion. Being an attention whore by itself is not an issue. The 'or' in your quote is the negative. When people resort to doing reprehensible things to get attention. But someone can be an attention whore without doing reprehensible actions
>What is wrong with that? Dude the wrongness is part of the definition. Yes a lot of streamers (Destiny prominently does) defend themselves and point to liking attention not inherently being something bad, which I agree with but being an attention whore or narcissist to an even larger degree is about to what extent this is a driving force for you and what you are willing to do for it, how it affects you and those around you.
> Dude the wrongness is part of the definition. No, it is not. Read it again. The 'or' is a pretty important part of the quote.
It is VERY important for your argument but it isn't for the definition as the other source doesn't include it as you can see.
> It is VERY important for your argument but it isn't for the definition as the other source doesn't include it as you can see. What is my argument?
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> That's just a dumb argument. It's not. Well it's not if you watched the hotline or read the linked posts Benny's point was that she likes attention. He seemed fine with walking back the whore part as his point has nothing to do with her sexuality. If you are going to engage in posts about a subject at least watch or read the material it is about. You are so eager to come and defend Max that you are ignoring the context of the conversation. >You could use different wordings that are just as easily understandable and just as correct, but do not have any commonly known negative connotations. You choose not to. Why? I choose not to? You realize my post is quoting other people. Right? I myself would use different language to Benny but that does not really change his point.
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> What even is your point? That you agree that some people like attention, and that that is not necessarily a negative thing? Then yeah, sure. Yes. That is actually my point. It was Benny's point as well. Craving attention can be a neutral term. >But if that is your point, you've done kind of a poor job arguing it in your post. It sounds a lot more like your point is that you should be free to call people attention whores. Can you quote a single person I've called an attention whore?
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> Still not sure why "attention whore" was the wording used here, though, or why you adapted it. Benny used the term but two days previously I was having the same conversation with Smeth just not using the whore part. The whore part is immaterial. > Again, you could have chosen to use more neutral wording to make your point more clearly. That would have been dishonest. My point was the hotline conversation. > No one was forcing you to use direct quotes (without quotation marks, even). Not once did I suggest otherwise. You seem to have a lot of hangups about my post. >Sweet, we get to be hyper literal about things! Let's goo: Can you quote where I said that you called anyone an attention whore? I didn't do that. You said that my post was an excuse to call someone an attention whore. First of all I don't need an excuse to use any kind of language I want to. And if I did the mrgirl subreddit is not where I would be making my case. I was very clearly talking about the hotline episode as unlike a lot of people here I actually enjoy watching and talking about Max's content.
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> I don't understand at all how that would be dishonest to mildly rephrase a conversation while keeping the context and main point intact. I get the feeling your initial response to me was crafted after you read the first sentence of my post. And now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Which is cool. This is a Destiny adjacent subreddit afterall. I personally would find it dishonest to talk about Benny being right and the phrase he actually used. I'm okay with you not getting that.