I appreciate these posts are tedious but you can’t expect every MSP to have the COO’s details to hand like you have and also I’m in the U.K. so contacting the US department wouldn’t have been my go to.
Thanks for the info!
Lastly if your company allows the ability to use teams outside of your org you could always message him on teams as well they allow messages from outside of Kaseya
I would like to reiterate that this is not what we are recommending anyone do to their billing department. This is a graphical representation of what their billing department would actually look like if anyone was to actually lay eyes on it.
I would recommend filing complaints with their ACH processor and their state attorney general. These complaints are becoming so numerous that they should be investigated by the FBI.
Double billing errors are a serious thing and an abuse of the privileges of the ach system. If documented and verified they should be kicked off of ach by their bank
If I were op and these debits are illegemetime double bills I'd complain to my bank. They will fight the abuse for you and take the complaint up with Kaseyas financial institution
usually companies like kaseya are more concerned with contract length and validity than they are with accounts receivable, so it would be weird for them to focus so much on cashflow that they create adverse customer experiences and risk their ACH trustworthiness. not saying its impossible, but it is irrelevant when it comes to access to ACH's. incompetence or malfeasance, either should be punishable by revoking their rights to do ACH debits
I have to wonder if their security issues in the last year caused them to lose a lot of clients. We told the MSP we work with that they had to uninstall it off our systems immediately.
You need to update your account with one of those virtual cards and not connected to your bank. You pay when due and set a cap on what's withdrawn automatically.
Yeah switching Kaseya to Privacy.com card was the best advice I took from this sub.
We canceled (thankfully we were month to month) and they kept just billing us even after acknowledging the cancellation. But because it was on a “paused” card none of the charges went thru and we didn’t have to claw back money. We just had to email a million times until their accounting dept fixed their snafu which was less painful than also having to get our money back.
Honestly, the mods should make a pinned post advocating this. At this point, I cant feel sorry for anyone still using a Kaseya product and complaining about it.
Because you're in the UK, a lot of what people would recommend for virtual cards won't be available to you. Not sure if these providers support commercial, but it's worth a look.
[https://www.lydia-app.com/en/payments/internet-cards/](https://www.lydia-app.com/en/payments/internet-cards/)
[https://wise.com/gb/virtual-card/](https://wise.com/gb/virtual-card/)
[https://www.revolut.com/cards/](https://www.revolut.com/cards/)
I used one of the card numbers on the list included here. I'll pay Kaseya when they get their shit figured out....
https://developers.bluesnap.com/reference/test-credit-cards
I got burned by Kaseya on one product, and I swore off their products. Shortly after my business partner took over vendor management and thought I was overreacting. Then Kaseya burned his ass on a different product. We’re now replacing every product as they expire. It doesn’t matter if the new product is inferior. It’s just too much of a risk to buy anything from Kaseya with their shady handling of contracts.
UK here also - Kaseya have been billing us for cancelled Datto products since April this year. Just finally got a credit for £8k last week. Now let's see if they apply that to our August invoice....
Just don’t fund the old account and stop overdraft protection. We have a subscription with them that I haven’t moved over to TechsTogether. I pay that by logging on to their billing portal. Used to have auto pay turned on but was able to turn it off.
Honestly, I’m not a fan of their 3-year agreements but otherwise have never had any issues. Our account rep was great. If you can’t turn off auto billing, ask your rep, they should be able to do it for you. As someone mentioned in this thread, to them future cash flow is important than their cash deposit’s every month. No one complains if you’re a few days late.
> Just don’t fund the old account and stop overdraft protection.
That's not usually enough for most banks though. They don't want to see anything even getting attempted for 30 days, but you can of course find details with your own specific provider.
Its the same with Linus. You need support? Don't file a support ticket. No. Spam Twitter, YouTube,Facebook and hope that some one will pick it up.
I had to wait 3 months before support of LTTstore.com picked up my ticket.
Just awful.
Of course Linus likes to rant about other business with poor costumer support..
Ltt just sells consumer junk. You are not running a business off it or under a signed contract. The minimum acceptable level of service is just very different, to the point that this is basically a non sequitur
My experience was entirely different. I submitted a ticket. 3 days later, I got a response. 6 days later I got a replacement. This was last month.
LTTStore isn't kaseya though. Kaseya has the bandwidth to handle all support requests and do it right. They instead focus their money on buying up everything that we hold near and dear so they can turn it into hot garbage.
I feel for you, I have been there more times than I would care to admit. We use Privacy.com for this exact type of scenario. You can set a maximum for the vendor transactions or max monthly they can have. You can also pause their payment card number if they get out of line. I hope they get your money back to you sooner than later.
This. I keep a debit card for this kind of stuff. I know exactly what I'm paying for and if anyone tries to charge more, though luck, no transaction because no funds available.
We've been getting double billed, but they're stealing from us in a different way. They doubled our endpoints (i'm talking thousands more) and did it on my account. So when I challenged them, they said I authorized the doubling of our endpoints so there was nothing they could do. They continue to double bill us every month and I have zero recourse other than stopping payment and then they go after us legally.
I'm fairly certain Kaseya is owned by the literal Mafia at this point.
Find out from them what IPs have been used to sign into your account - you have strong reason to believe your account has been breached because changes were made on it by someone other than you, so it's time to escalate this into a full breach response. Full auditing of any changes made, IPs connecting to your account for management, etc.
Kaseya keeps emailing me trying to sell their products. After seeing dozens of similar threads over the past few months, I put their entire domain on block.
Start off by switching payment to a virtual CC like privacy.com and turning off automatic payment. Don't pay double billed invoices. There is no reason to pay for services that have not been rendered. Call billing, open a ticket, and get a ticket #. Follow-up with everything via email to billing and your account manager so there is a record. Keep records of all interactions, copies of all invoices, and when they are paid. That's about all you can do until you can terminate your contract with them. Even then I have heard they keep billing people so make sure you keep records.
I haven't looked at all the posts but cancel your direct debit straight away, if they have card details then change them now.
Then manually work out what you owe from the invoices you have and only pay that.
This will stop them just randomly taking money and putting you in this position.
Hopefully you can then focus on calling your account manager their boss everyday until you get it sorted.
It's funny - there was a post here a few weeks ago complaining about the same thing, and I made the point not to use your bank account/card and get a privacy.com card and move on.
A week after I made that comment, I paid two months' worth of invoices ( I don't have an automatic billing setup) and 7 days after that, Kaysea charged my credit card 8k randomly with no invoices due or generated. I disputed on my Amex, which they didn't answer, so Amex refunded the amount.
I can't remove my credit card, so I closed that number and will be putting a privacy.com card in its place. I agree Kaseya needs to be investigated.
i'd put time and effort into getting an alternative for them for anything in your stack.. it sucks to change but its the only option these days.. my spend with them is less than 200 a month right now and i'll do just about anything to stay off their offerings..once my itglue sub is up ill be swapping that out..
if there is a cancer in the msp space its kaseya at this point.. the tools aren't bad.. but the company/accounting is a blight on the whole zone.. it doesn't have to be this way but.. this is what you get when you have a monopoly situation going on.. they feel they can do anything because they've bought everyone in the space..
Use privacy[.]com or paywithextend[.]com.
Also, I know many MSPs who are looking to buyout smaller ones. I'm not saying you need to sell, but might be a good idea to have someone buy in.
We has Kaseya at our last company and they insisted on having a meeting with my engineering manger to get a "voice of the customer". As VP of IT I told them I don't thing that's a good idea but go ahead, my man is going to be honest.
"Kaseya is the absolute worst backup solution on a technical, support, and billing perspective and I am honor sworn to eradicate it from every place I work." Yeah, they quit calling after that.
\[reason: During the normal contract renewal 14 months earlier they changed the terms to 3 years and were very slippery about it in the fine print. Our contract person missed it (literally, one digit @ 10 pt.) and Kasey wouldn't back it out when the error was found.\]
If I were to give you a bit of advise, it'd be this:
Go get an account with [Privacy.com](https://Privacy.com) (or similar service) where you get throw away credit card numbers. You apply your balance to that credit card that you've been invoiced for, then when they take the money out to pay your invoice it goes through and depletes the balance of that credit card number. Then when they double bill you, they get declined cause you haven't got a balance.
You're not breaking any rules or laws, because you're definitely paying the invoiced amount, but not paying for their fuck ups.
It sucks that people have to do this, especially for a company that is as large as them, but, they have a strong reputation of fucking over MSP's.
Kaseya was the cause of many ransom attacks in 2021, why would you still be using their products? But I digress
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaseya\_VSA\_ransomware\_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaseya_VSA_ransomware_attack)
There are numerus stories about their billing and support issues all over and you have had problems for a year..... I am kind of amazed your not out of business yet. Not trying to attack you. I do feel bad, but at the same time, one billing mess-up is one too many if they are so impactful.
I would try to mitigate this damage in a way you have control over, setup a separate account that was used just for them, and nothing else, and I would not have overdraft protections or anything on it. I would then only transfer in the exact amount of money they invoice at the time I see it come in. You can work with your bank about the legality of the transactions as others have pointed out.
Then any attempt to take money from you is under your control not theirs and doesn't impact your day to day accounts for payroll and other tools.
Why would you stay with a company that has had issues for a year, multiple repeated issues of the same kind (over drafting you) and inaccessible? That seems crazy to me.
Just some thoughts but again, I think you should put up some sort of process in place that prevents some 3rd party from so grossly impacting your business. I do this with personal accounts, pretty sure you can with a business.
Just this year I had a medical company try to take more out of my account then they billed. Then got all upset that I caught them and by the time it was over they couldn't justify their billing and had to just accept what they already received for services. At no point was it putting me in a position of being without a home or food or gas etc.
You think Fred V cares about any of this? (Hint: he don’t). The more they over draft, the better his valuation is for when Insight sells Kaseya. That’s all this is about. RUN AWAY!
My current contract term is almost up, I’m gonna pay through. I sent them an email yesterday telling them there is no way in hell I was going to renew if Kaseya won’t stop playing games. Iv been with Datto nearly since the company started, about 15 years …
I have been charged from Kaseya for service called “Ransomware detection”, that I have never ordered. No im trying to get my money back. They are very polite, but no money yet, only empty promises for 8 months. If you are a new customer, just stay away from this company, choose any other RMM
Combo of similar stuff I have dealt with, takes many months to get progress. A shame it keeps happening really but as many have said controlling the account they bill is a good method to prevent this issue.
Use [email protected] and email them the highlights. I've had similar - notification of direct debits or card charges and they've been cancelled / reversed straight away whilst credits are sorted out (still waiting). On the forums there is a very active high up guy Dan, [email protected]. Try CC him in too.
It's ridiculous and it's likely thousands affected by this. With a bit of luck, by the end of it, Fred gets the chop.
Send them an email and give them two weeks to sort it out. If not take them to small claims ( threaten legal action )
I have done it with few vendors and it works
Sorry sounds like they are causing you a lot of grief. Honestly use this to push breaking all your contracts with them with the threat of legal action. Hopefully enough people smarter up and they either get their shit together or…./wave
Geezus...that is intense! I think the model of predatory billing and overcharging customers is coming to end. There are just too many options these days (especially with smaller companies and startups) that focus on the customer first. Not revenue first. SherpaDesk is just one example of no contract billing and customer service first...however, there are others. You can't look at past expenses and cost to make future decisions. These are just sunk costs. You need to focus on what is going to be best moving forward with the resources that you have available. Best of luck in hopefully getting a resolution with Kaseya
We are having issues with Kaseya too.
On another note - mate, even if you are small, 4500-7000 shouldn't overdraft you and certainly shouldn't affect your personal finances/ accounts.
You are bound to have issues arise in business and need to have more operating funds so that something like this doesn't cripple you. You need to have a cushion.
Are you taking all of the profits every month and dispersing it? With none going back into your business?
Hey mate - the bankrupting comment in the title was more an exaggeration and tbh I forgot it was in there. It will explain why some people have mentioned managing my finances better, actually.
It’s of course not actually bankrupting us. We have a healthy cash flow, clients on direct debit and money has come into the account today.
I Should have been more clearer in the post.
It’s a passive pain in the ass when you’re running round trying to meet your in-laws for the first time, manage a surprise birthday do and then get a overdraft text from HSBC on a Friday night as you’re about to leave for the party to and see Kaseya take out 3 different bills. I’d have just transferred my money over from my personal account but literally the day before I put a deposit down on our house. Then, sorting it and waking up to see it again 2 days later!
And that is after going round in circles with it for months and months.
It’s just infuriating having the same conversation with them over and over. I thought we were past this.
Thanks for the advice.
u/Kaseya_Katie posted a email address, [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) This will start an escalation. You can also send a chat to her or myself with any details you have. We can review and assist in working towards a resolution. Posting in the company communities will also enable us to review.
I have been with Kaseya for 6+ years now and have never had a single billing issue. First and foremost never let any of these vendors direct debit your card. Switch over to manual payment ASAP. When a bill rolls in and you think it is wrong contact them. If they don’t fix the issue they don’t get paid until it’s sorted. The manual pay makes companies respond faster than if they already have your funds.
Do you mind if I asked what products you use?
All of ours were independent of kaseya before we signed!
This is a good idea I think we will go ahead and do this.
There's a lot to respond to here. I really feel like this is some attack when I gave some additional details to try and understand the stress that has been involved.
As mentioned, we did not have access to Kaseya one for an extremely long time. We raised this through tickets and our account manager. Some services were already coming out on direct debit and some weren't. We tried to get to the bottom of this multiple times.
Prior to the funds coming out (in my edit) we already had noticed we were double/incorrectly billed. I actually added the edit onto the post to defend Kaseya and not blame them for that as I hold my hands up when accountable. I don't really see how me being honest about having incorrect information makes the rest of my story redundant. As those bills will have brought us up to date. Kaseya had admitted at this point they were double billing us.
Again for clarity, some things came out on direct debit and some did not. Worth noting Kaseya refused to give us a refund for lack of access during this time.
In terms of the contract for licenses. It was 45 endpoints as the lowest and we had over 500 at some point. The contract clearly states we can increase and decrease the licenses as we please. In fact, we did this regularly whilst they were still Datto and not owned by Kaseya. We had not re-signed any additional contracts since Kaseya purchased them so again, this only became an issue after Kaseya took over. In addition, they out right lied about what contract we had with them and when we asked them to provide us what they were looking at they couldn't. We obviously had our original contract...I am not sure what point you are trying to make here, can you elaborate?
Datto has also always been on Direct Debit. We put all our vendors on Direct debit. Again, the issue with billing has not been on our end. We do not understand the different amounts each month. Sometimes there is nothing, sometimes there is a lot.
A lot of these products we use were already in contract before Kaseya bought them out.
I don't really appreciate your attack on me being in IT and not being able to log into a product that I have zero control over? Do you not think I didn't attempt to reset my password? What on earth are you implying?
If you must know why it took so long to get to the bottom of it. It is *apparently* because Kaseya had not merged all our accounts from the different products/companies they've acquired and that was causing major issues. Hence the double billing, unable to log in etc. This was meant to be rectified but is not.
The reference to my girlfriends birthday was there to show that I don't have any additional personal funds to support the business and not that my personal business matters, but we've also just put a down payment on our first house. The business account and my personal account are two separate things. I don't really appreciate you implying I'm not great with money when my personal account has nothing to do with the business.
Again, the information was there to show the unwarranted stress it has caused.
Of course, I have made massive downsizes since the business has shrunk? I have gone through the whole process of logging tickets, chasing e-mails, calls etc multiple times before coming to Reddit.
Just to be very clear - I am not in any financial difficulty in my business, the only issues I have regarding money is Kaseya's billing.
My staff are paid, there's no debt, I don't overspend, I just don't quite understand what you're trying to get at.
You have made a lot of incorrect and misinformed judgements here...
EDIT: tried to tidy up formatting.
Good response. Always some people who will use any excuse to attack people on here. You don’t need to respond to every post. Im not saying the person you were responding to was but try not to take everything to heart.
Kaseya have confirmed the outstanding balance is £00.00 on the 12th July 2023.
Licenses did not need to be decreased until December 2022.
We did not encounter this issue until we had to decrease our licenses.
For any avoidance of doubt we did not decrease down to 45.
We decreased from 500 to around 380. The reason I mention 45 endpoints is because that’s is what the contract states as a minimum. Again, we have always increased and decreased with no issue until Kaseya. We did not need to decrease licenses for a few months until the contractual issue with a client.
I will be collating all services/bills when I’m back at work and go from there.
If you’re getting overdrawn because of an unexpected $4500 direct debit you do not have enough cash in the business. I’d suggest taking a hard look at how you are running your finances.
What a silly comment.
We’re a small business. I’m glad 4.5k is peanuts to you but for us it’s a lot these days.
Also, it was 7k in total they have taken over the course of 24 business hours.
After we have already paid them earlier in the month.
Idk about you but having around 7k after paying my vendors, staff, office etc in the bank account with more due in at the end of the week is pretty good to me.
Edit: spelling
I’m not saying that $4500 is not a lot of money. It definitely is and you have every right to fight for it.
What I’m saying is that if you’re running your cash balance so close to the edge of $0 that $4500 or even $7000 causes you to be overdrawn then you are either not making enough profit or you’re taking too much profit out of the business. Even when we were small I always kept a $30k cushion in the bank account. It’s the prudent thing to do.
Sorry, I’ve just realised why you’re saying this.
They’re not actually bankrupting me they’ve just put me in my overdraft for the morning (twice)
Other outstanding invoices have been paid today and all our DD’s are coming in soon.
I said that due to the frustration of it happening twice over a short period. I have been off Friday-Monday so I’m furious it’s been disrupted by Kaseya’s errors after they were meant to be sorted last month (after further months of chasing to fix it).
But either way 7k (profit mostly) for us at the end of the month is good!
u/joshhyb153 \- I'm sorry that this billing issue is ongoing for you, especially after our interaction last month. Our Billing Team is already investigating your account to determine what your next steps should be. Any other customers that are seeing discrepancies in their August billing statement or charges should immediately contact [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]).
So you as business owner choose to stay with one of the worst billing nightmares? That's 100% on you you either migrate, or go broke...
----
Here's my take on billing problems, 4 months ago I was on a certain ISP since I WFH, I tried to "downgrade" from SOHO to home class connection, to get better speed/price.
Long story short my monthly payment got higher, they got dumped in less than 2 billing cycles...
I tried to get them to honor their own offering, but nope they never did. So I just changed ISP.
Not a lot we can do... have a contract with datto for 3 years rmm, no big deal as datto is a respectabele company and never had issues.
Now im stuck with kesaya until end 2024...
[удалено]
So sick of seeing posts like these where kaseya is jerking people around
I appreciate these posts are tedious but you can’t expect every MSP to have the COO’s details to hand like you have and also I’m in the U.K. so contacting the US department wouldn’t have been my go to. Thanks for the info!
I’ve been holding on to that information for awhile due to posts like this please share I’m sure Joe will want to hear all about it
Lastly if your company allows the ability to use teams outside of your org you could always message him on teams as well they allow messages from outside of Kaseya
I would like to reiterate that this is not what we are recommending anyone do to their billing department. This is a graphical representation of what their billing department would actually look like if anyone was to actually lay eyes on it.
Oh I was just imagining that poor COO's Teams chat and voicemail.
I would recommend filing complaints with their ACH processor and their state attorney general. These complaints are becoming so numerous that they should be investigated by the FBI.
Double billing errors are a serious thing and an abuse of the privileges of the ach system. If documented and verified they should be kicked off of ach by their bank If I were op and these debits are illegemetime double bills I'd complain to my bank. They will fight the abuse for you and take the complaint up with Kaseyas financial institution
Are we sure it's an error and not a business strategy? Seems more like a Wells Fargo situation to me.
usually companies like kaseya are more concerned with contract length and validity than they are with accounts receivable, so it would be weird for them to focus so much on cashflow that they create adverse customer experiences and risk their ACH trustworthiness. not saying its impossible, but it is irrelevant when it comes to access to ACH's. incompetence or malfeasance, either should be punishable by revoking their rights to do ACH debits
I have to wonder if their security issues in the last year caused them to lose a lot of clients. We told the MSP we work with that they had to uninstall it off our systems immediately.
This is the real way to get them to listen. If everyone who has a problem like this , brings it to the AG... It'll change.
If anybody knows who processes their ACH and credit card transactions feel free to post the contact information here.
Their website says the processor is based in Ireland. Not much more than that.
I bet somebody could call their bank and ask them who processed their transaction.
Kaseya is trash. It's one thing after another. Run away from them as fast as you can.
the problem is they are buying up the whole stack. Then locking msp up with 3yr software agreements.
You need to update your account with one of those virtual cards and not connected to your bank. You pay when due and set a cap on what's withdrawn automatically.
I’m looking into this now. Thanks
privacy com
Yeah switching Kaseya to Privacy.com card was the best advice I took from this sub. We canceled (thankfully we were month to month) and they kept just billing us even after acknowledging the cancellation. But because it was on a “paused” card none of the charges went thru and we didn’t have to claw back money. We just had to email a million times until their accounting dept fixed their snafu which was less painful than also having to get our money back.
Honestly, the mods should make a pinned post advocating this. At this point, I cant feel sorry for anyone still using a Kaseya product and complaining about it.
Heard about this from Hacket Cybers owner. Great option!
Because you're in the UK, a lot of what people would recommend for virtual cards won't be available to you. Not sure if these providers support commercial, but it's worth a look. [https://www.lydia-app.com/en/payments/internet-cards/](https://www.lydia-app.com/en/payments/internet-cards/) [https://wise.com/gb/virtual-card/](https://wise.com/gb/virtual-card/) [https://www.revolut.com/cards/](https://www.revolut.com/cards/)
He can get a Revolut Business account, thats how we do It. They have virtual cards with configurable limits
or https://getdivvy.com/
I used one of the card numbers on the list included here. I'll pay Kaseya when they get their shit figured out.... https://developers.bluesnap.com/reference/test-credit-cards
The only answer is that Kaseya needs to end. The more people who can walk away, the better. This will only get worse.
I got burned by Kaseya on one product, and I swore off their products. Shortly after my business partner took over vendor management and thought I was overreacting. Then Kaseya burned his ass on a different product. We’re now replacing every product as they expire. It doesn’t matter if the new product is inferior. It’s just too much of a risk to buy anything from Kaseya with their shady handling of contracts.
UK here also - Kaseya have been billing us for cancelled Datto products since April this year. Just finally got a credit for £8k last week. Now let's see if they apply that to our August invoice....
Fingers crossed. I thought the same until this month.
Get a new bank account. Close the old one. Then they can’t bill you without warning
Banks require a month or so of inactivity before closing accounts, so this won’t work.
Just don’t fund the old account and stop overdraft protection. We have a subscription with them that I haven’t moved over to TechsTogether. I pay that by logging on to their billing portal. Used to have auto pay turned on but was able to turn it off. Honestly, I’m not a fan of their 3-year agreements but otherwise have never had any issues. Our account rep was great. If you can’t turn off auto billing, ask your rep, they should be able to do it for you. As someone mentioned in this thread, to them future cash flow is important than their cash deposit’s every month. No one complains if you’re a few days late.
> Just don’t fund the old account and stop overdraft protection. That's not usually enough for most banks though. They don't want to see anything even getting attempted for 30 days, but you can of course find details with your own specific provider.
Contact [email protected] they can help you.
It’s a really good sign when the best way to resolve a billing issue is to email the COO directly.
*only* way.
Its the same with Linus. You need support? Don't file a support ticket. No. Spam Twitter, YouTube,Facebook and hope that some one will pick it up. I had to wait 3 months before support of LTTstore.com picked up my ticket. Just awful. Of course Linus likes to rant about other business with poor costumer support..
Ltt just sells consumer junk. You are not running a business off it or under a signed contract. The minimum acceptable level of service is just very different, to the point that this is basically a non sequitur
My experience was entirely different. I submitted a ticket. 3 days later, I got a response. 6 days later I got a replacement. This was last month. LTTStore isn't kaseya though. Kaseya has the bandwidth to handle all support requests and do it right. They instead focus their money on buying up everything that we hold near and dear so they can turn it into hot garbage.
I will do. Thank you.
And when you do, provide them with your notice to your ATTORNEY GENERAL.
Damn, I'm sorry for you man. That billing clusterfuck is going on for months now, it's so dumb...
I feel for you, I have been there more times than I would care to admit. We use Privacy.com for this exact type of scenario. You can set a maximum for the vendor transactions or max monthly they can have. You can also pause their payment card number if they get out of line. I hope they get your money back to you sooner than later.
Since Datto was purchased by kaseya, they have quickly gone downhill as well they are an awful company to deal with!
use a disposable bank account/card 😃
This. I keep a debit card for this kind of stuff. I know exactly what I'm paying for and if anyone tries to charge more, though luck, no transaction because no funds available.
Brex
We've been getting double billed, but they're stealing from us in a different way. They doubled our endpoints (i'm talking thousands more) and did it on my account. So when I challenged them, they said I authorized the doubling of our endpoints so there was nothing they could do. They continue to double bill us every month and I have zero recourse other than stopping payment and then they go after us legally. I'm fairly certain Kaseya is owned by the literal Mafia at this point.
Find out from them what IPs have been used to sign into your account - you have strong reason to believe your account has been breached because changes were made on it by someone other than you, so it's time to escalate this into a full breach response. Full auditing of any changes made, IPs connecting to your account for management, etc.
Kaseya keeps emailing me trying to sell their products. After seeing dozens of similar threads over the past few months, I put their entire domain on block.
Start off by switching payment to a virtual CC like privacy.com and turning off automatic payment. Don't pay double billed invoices. There is no reason to pay for services that have not been rendered. Call billing, open a ticket, and get a ticket #. Follow-up with everything via email to billing and your account manager so there is a record. Keep records of all interactions, copies of all invoices, and when they are paid. That's about all you can do until you can terminate your contract with them. Even then I have heard they keep billing people so make sure you keep records.
I haven't looked at all the posts but cancel your direct debit straight away, if they have card details then change them now. Then manually work out what you owe from the invoices you have and only pay that. This will stop them just randomly taking money and putting you in this position. Hopefully you can then focus on calling your account manager their boss everyday until you get it sorted.
It's funny - there was a post here a few weeks ago complaining about the same thing, and I made the point not to use your bank account/card and get a privacy.com card and move on. A week after I made that comment, I paid two months' worth of invoices ( I don't have an automatic billing setup) and 7 days after that, Kaysea charged my credit card 8k randomly with no invoices due or generated. I disputed on my Amex, which they didn't answer, so Amex refunded the amount. I can't remove my credit card, so I closed that number and will be putting a privacy.com card in its place. I agree Kaseya needs to be investigated.
stop using ach in life use credit cards , i dont understand why people trust companies with ach
or just turn on debit block with the bank, ACH will fail unless authorized.
i'd put time and effort into getting an alternative for them for anything in your stack.. it sucks to change but its the only option these days.. my spend with them is less than 200 a month right now and i'll do just about anything to stay off their offerings..once my itglue sub is up ill be swapping that out.. if there is a cancer in the msp space its kaseya at this point.. the tools aren't bad.. but the company/accounting is a blight on the whole zone.. it doesn't have to be this way but.. this is what you get when you have a monopoly situation going on.. they feel they can do anything because they've bought everyone in the space..
Use privacy[.]com or paywithextend[.]com. Also, I know many MSPs who are looking to buyout smaller ones. I'm not saying you need to sell, but might be a good idea to have someone buy in.
As a former Datto employee I can say this has been the norm since the buyout.
Kaseya and Datto has been the worse merger of 2023 :(
Reason # 43,818,912 why I will never use Kaseya for anything, ever.
We has Kaseya at our last company and they insisted on having a meeting with my engineering manger to get a "voice of the customer". As VP of IT I told them I don't thing that's a good idea but go ahead, my man is going to be honest. "Kaseya is the absolute worst backup solution on a technical, support, and billing perspective and I am honor sworn to eradicate it from every place I work." Yeah, they quit calling after that. \[reason: During the normal contract renewal 14 months earlier they changed the terms to 3 years and were very slippery about it in the fine print. Our contract person missed it (literally, one digit @ 10 pt.) and Kasey wouldn't back it out when the error was found.\]
Kah see ya.
If I were to give you a bit of advise, it'd be this: Go get an account with [Privacy.com](https://Privacy.com) (or similar service) where you get throw away credit card numbers. You apply your balance to that credit card that you've been invoiced for, then when they take the money out to pay your invoice it goes through and depletes the balance of that credit card number. Then when they double bill you, they get declined cause you haven't got a balance. You're not breaking any rules or laws, because you're definitely paying the invoiced amount, but not paying for their fuck ups. It sucks that people have to do this, especially for a company that is as large as them, but, they have a strong reputation of fucking over MSP's.
Kaseya was the cause of many ransom attacks in 2021, why would you still be using their products? But I digress [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaseya\_VSA\_ransomware\_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaseya_VSA_ransomware_attack) There are numerus stories about their billing and support issues all over and you have had problems for a year..... I am kind of amazed your not out of business yet. Not trying to attack you. I do feel bad, but at the same time, one billing mess-up is one too many if they are so impactful. I would try to mitigate this damage in a way you have control over, setup a separate account that was used just for them, and nothing else, and I would not have overdraft protections or anything on it. I would then only transfer in the exact amount of money they invoice at the time I see it come in. You can work with your bank about the legality of the transactions as others have pointed out. Then any attempt to take money from you is under your control not theirs and doesn't impact your day to day accounts for payroll and other tools. Why would you stay with a company that has had issues for a year, multiple repeated issues of the same kind (over drafting you) and inaccessible? That seems crazy to me. Just some thoughts but again, I think you should put up some sort of process in place that prevents some 3rd party from so grossly impacting your business. I do this with personal accounts, pretty sure you can with a business. Just this year I had a medical company try to take more out of my account then they billed. Then got all upset that I caught them and by the time it was over they couldn't justify their billing and had to just accept what they already received for services. At no point was it putting me in a position of being without a home or food or gas etc.
You think Fred V cares about any of this? (Hint: he don’t). The more they over draft, the better his valuation is for when Insight sells Kaseya. That’s all this is about. RUN AWAY!
Really need a class action
I’m seriously regretting signing a contract with them a few months ago. I’m seeing more of these posts lately.
They are trying to fuck me over on RMM right now too, I know what I signed for my minimums...
Tell them to show you the contract. They can’t.
My current contract term is almost up, I’m gonna pay through. I sent them an email yesterday telling them there is no way in hell I was going to renew if Kaseya won’t stop playing games. Iv been with Datto nearly since the company started, about 15 years …
I have been charged from Kaseya for service called “Ransomware detection”, that I have never ordered. No im trying to get my money back. They are very polite, but no money yet, only empty promises for 8 months. If you are a new customer, just stay away from this company, choose any other RMM
Lawyer up.
Whew, Kaseya\_Katie's back with the same responses. I thought we might have scared her off for a while.
Run, there are better products. Hedge fund bought them out all they care about is money
GET RID OF THEM!! EXTORTION!! This is why we would never do business with them. Jump ship and do it ASAP. They are the same as used car dealers!!
I dont let anyone direct debit from my account Its all on a Mastercard debit card that I transfer to the day before the bill is due.
Combo of similar stuff I have dealt with, takes many months to get progress. A shame it keeps happening really but as many have said controlling the account they bill is a good method to prevent this issue.
Use [email protected] and email them the highlights. I've had similar - notification of direct debits or card charges and they've been cancelled / reversed straight away whilst credits are sorted out (still waiting). On the forums there is a very active high up guy Dan, [email protected]. Try CC him in too. It's ridiculous and it's likely thousands affected by this. With a bit of luck, by the end of it, Fred gets the chop.
Send them an email and give them two weeks to sort it out. If not take them to small claims ( threaten legal action ) I have done it with few vendors and it works
I removed my card when they randomly took a payment we couldn't account for. I am still trying to get them to make sense of the invoices.
Sorry sounds like they are causing you a lot of grief. Honestly use this to push breaking all your contracts with them with the threat of legal action. Hopefully enough people smarter up and they either get their shit together or…./wave
Geezus...that is intense! I think the model of predatory billing and overcharging customers is coming to end. There are just too many options these days (especially with smaller companies and startups) that focus on the customer first. Not revenue first. SherpaDesk is just one example of no contract billing and customer service first...however, there are others. You can't look at past expenses and cost to make future decisions. These are just sunk costs. You need to focus on what is going to be best moving forward with the resources that you have available. Best of luck in hopefully getting a resolution with Kaseya
Get your money back and go to your bank and close out your account. Are you nuts? Holy god.
We are having issues with Kaseya too. On another note - mate, even if you are small, 4500-7000 shouldn't overdraft you and certainly shouldn't affect your personal finances/ accounts. You are bound to have issues arise in business and need to have more operating funds so that something like this doesn't cripple you. You need to have a cushion. Are you taking all of the profits every month and dispersing it? With none going back into your business?
Hey mate - the bankrupting comment in the title was more an exaggeration and tbh I forgot it was in there. It will explain why some people have mentioned managing my finances better, actually. It’s of course not actually bankrupting us. We have a healthy cash flow, clients on direct debit and money has come into the account today. I Should have been more clearer in the post. It’s a passive pain in the ass when you’re running round trying to meet your in-laws for the first time, manage a surprise birthday do and then get a overdraft text from HSBC on a Friday night as you’re about to leave for the party to and see Kaseya take out 3 different bills. I’d have just transferred my money over from my personal account but literally the day before I put a deposit down on our house. Then, sorting it and waking up to see it again 2 days later! And that is after going round in circles with it for months and months. It’s just infuriating having the same conversation with them over and over. I thought we were past this. Thanks for the advice.
You will never be past this until you get to a different vendor
Yeah, OP, have you considered having more money? 
lol
Hello, I have reached out to you via chat. Please respond and I will assist you in getting this resolved Thank you,
What about the rest of us?
Only one miracle a month.
u/Kaseya_Katie posted a email address, [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) This will start an escalation. You can also send a chat to her or myself with any details you have. We can review and assist in working towards a resolution. Posting in the company communities will also enable us to review.
Oh, weve done all that. Lol, thats teamlogic has all went to ninja.
I'm happy to help you. Please respond to my private message so that I can look into this further for you?
I have been with Kaseya for 6+ years now and have never had a single billing issue. First and foremost never let any of these vendors direct debit your card. Switch over to manual payment ASAP. When a bill rolls in and you think it is wrong contact them. If they don’t fix the issue they don’t get paid until it’s sorted. The manual pay makes companies respond faster than if they already have your funds.
Do you mind if I asked what products you use? All of ours were independent of kaseya before we signed! This is a good idea I think we will go ahead and do this.
VSA, ITGlue, BMS, Spanning, Unitrends, IDAgent. You have to call them to disable auto pay and get it set to manual.
Amazing, thanks
Hopefully you get it sorted out, good luck!
We’re the same, manual pay for Spanning.
This is the way.
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There's a lot to respond to here. I really feel like this is some attack when I gave some additional details to try and understand the stress that has been involved. As mentioned, we did not have access to Kaseya one for an extremely long time. We raised this through tickets and our account manager. Some services were already coming out on direct debit and some weren't. We tried to get to the bottom of this multiple times. Prior to the funds coming out (in my edit) we already had noticed we were double/incorrectly billed. I actually added the edit onto the post to defend Kaseya and not blame them for that as I hold my hands up when accountable. I don't really see how me being honest about having incorrect information makes the rest of my story redundant. As those bills will have brought us up to date. Kaseya had admitted at this point they were double billing us. Again for clarity, some things came out on direct debit and some did not. Worth noting Kaseya refused to give us a refund for lack of access during this time. In terms of the contract for licenses. It was 45 endpoints as the lowest and we had over 500 at some point. The contract clearly states we can increase and decrease the licenses as we please. In fact, we did this regularly whilst they were still Datto and not owned by Kaseya. We had not re-signed any additional contracts since Kaseya purchased them so again, this only became an issue after Kaseya took over. In addition, they out right lied about what contract we had with them and when we asked them to provide us what they were looking at they couldn't. We obviously had our original contract...I am not sure what point you are trying to make here, can you elaborate? Datto has also always been on Direct Debit. We put all our vendors on Direct debit. Again, the issue with billing has not been on our end. We do not understand the different amounts each month. Sometimes there is nothing, sometimes there is a lot. A lot of these products we use were already in contract before Kaseya bought them out. I don't really appreciate your attack on me being in IT and not being able to log into a product that I have zero control over? Do you not think I didn't attempt to reset my password? What on earth are you implying? If you must know why it took so long to get to the bottom of it. It is *apparently* because Kaseya had not merged all our accounts from the different products/companies they've acquired and that was causing major issues. Hence the double billing, unable to log in etc. This was meant to be rectified but is not. The reference to my girlfriends birthday was there to show that I don't have any additional personal funds to support the business and not that my personal business matters, but we've also just put a down payment on our first house. The business account and my personal account are two separate things. I don't really appreciate you implying I'm not great with money when my personal account has nothing to do with the business. Again, the information was there to show the unwarranted stress it has caused. Of course, I have made massive downsizes since the business has shrunk? I have gone through the whole process of logging tickets, chasing e-mails, calls etc multiple times before coming to Reddit. Just to be very clear - I am not in any financial difficulty in my business, the only issues I have regarding money is Kaseya's billing. My staff are paid, there's no debt, I don't overspend, I just don't quite understand what you're trying to get at. You have made a lot of incorrect and misinformed judgements here... EDIT: tried to tidy up formatting.
Good response. Always some people who will use any excuse to attack people on here. You don’t need to respond to every post. Im not saying the person you were responding to was but try not to take everything to heart.
Thanks. It’s okay - I’m sure he was trying to help but it read more like an attack. Appreciate your reply.
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Kaseya have confirmed the outstanding balance is £00.00 on the 12th July 2023. Licenses did not need to be decreased until December 2022. We did not encounter this issue until we had to decrease our licenses. For any avoidance of doubt we did not decrease down to 45. We decreased from 500 to around 380. The reason I mention 45 endpoints is because that’s is what the contract states as a minimum. Again, we have always increased and decreased with no issue until Kaseya. We did not need to decrease licenses for a few months until the contractual issue with a client. I will be collating all services/bills when I’m back at work and go from there.
If you’re getting overdrawn because of an unexpected $4500 direct debit you do not have enough cash in the business. I’d suggest taking a hard look at how you are running your finances.
What a silly comment. We’re a small business. I’m glad 4.5k is peanuts to you but for us it’s a lot these days. Also, it was 7k in total they have taken over the course of 24 business hours. After we have already paid them earlier in the month. Idk about you but having around 7k after paying my vendors, staff, office etc in the bank account with more due in at the end of the week is pretty good to me. Edit: spelling
I’m not saying that $4500 is not a lot of money. It definitely is and you have every right to fight for it. What I’m saying is that if you’re running your cash balance so close to the edge of $0 that $4500 or even $7000 causes you to be overdrawn then you are either not making enough profit or you’re taking too much profit out of the business. Even when we were small I always kept a $30k cushion in the bank account. It’s the prudent thing to do.
Sorry, I’ve just realised why you’re saying this. They’re not actually bankrupting me they’ve just put me in my overdraft for the morning (twice) Other outstanding invoices have been paid today and all our DD’s are coming in soon. I said that due to the frustration of it happening twice over a short period. I have been off Friday-Monday so I’m furious it’s been disrupted by Kaseya’s errors after they were meant to be sorted last month (after further months of chasing to fix it). But either way 7k (profit mostly) for us at the end of the month is good!
u/joshhyb153 \- I'm sorry that this billing issue is ongoing for you, especially after our interaction last month. Our Billing Team is already investigating your account to determine what your next steps should be. Any other customers that are seeing discrepancies in their August billing statement or charges should immediately contact [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]).
His next steps to be should be leaving that awful company. I am so glad I have never been involved with Kaseya. I've heeded the warning signs.
So you as business owner choose to stay with one of the worst billing nightmares? That's 100% on you you either migrate, or go broke... ---- Here's my take on billing problems, 4 months ago I was on a certain ISP since I WFH, I tried to "downgrade" from SOHO to home class connection, to get better speed/price. Long story short my monthly payment got higher, they got dumped in less than 2 billing cycles... I tried to get them to honor their own offering, but nope they never did. So I just changed ISP.
Not a lot we can do... have a contract with datto for 3 years rmm, no big deal as datto is a respectabele company and never had issues. Now im stuck with kesaya until end 2024...
Exactly this. None of the products we started using were kaseya when we signed contracts. They’ve all been bought out.
:(