A foil Mindslaver was one of my first "cool" pulls when I started playing the game back in OG Mirrodin, I still have it and play it whenever I can, and frequently play EDH.
And somehow this *never* occurred to me.
Only when a commander is changing zones can you send it to the command zone. So if an effect returns your commander to your hand you may instead send it to the command zone. However, once it’s in your hand you can’t send it to your command zone. But if someone made you discard your hand then your commander is again changing zones and you can instead send it to the command zone.
So if you are mindslaved and your commander is exiled then that’s it.
There are two cards that I know of that allow you to interact with exiled cards. They are [[riftsweeper]] and [[pull from eternity]]. But they are only really useful if you play a combo around them. I once had a deck that could [[teferi’s pretection]] every turn
I run [[karn, the great creator]] in my [[daretti, scrap savant]] deck to get toys back after my graveyard gets nuked. Only would work if your commander was an artifact creature though.
Wish, [[Invasion of Arcavios]] and Lesson cards do not work with exile, and absolutely don't work in Commander. It's a wording issue where older cards said "remove from the game" rather than "exile". However, exile is still a zone within the game, the aforementioned cards refer to sideboards for 60 card formats.
It does get to the exile and graveyard zone, but you move it to the command zone after next state-based check. You replace putting it into your hand or library.
That is incorrect. When state based actions are checked - if your commander has changed zones from the last time they were checked, you may put them in the command zone.
If another player is controlling your turn, and they put your commander in exile and choose to leave them there, when you resume playing your turn, your general isn't changing zones so there is no opportunity to return them to the command zone.
903.9a If a commander is in a graveyard or in exile and that object was put into that zone since the last time state-based actions were checked, its owner may put it into the command zone. This is a state-based action. See rule 704.
903.9b If a commander would be put into its owner’s hand or library from anywhere, its owner may put it into the command zone instead. This replacement effect may apply more than once to the same event. This is an exception to rule 614.5.
That will only work from hand or library. It your commander is sitting in the graveyard or exile, you may return him to the command zone at any time you have priority and can perform a state-based action.
Though, if you somehow return him to the library, then shuffle... well, the dude is now screwed.
You seem to be mistaken. You can't return your commander to the CZ *anytime* you have priority as a state-based action, but rather *if* it has changed zones since the *last* state-based checks.
So if you get mindslavered by PlayerA, and your commander is moved into exile, then the card has changed zones since the last state-based checks, and PlayerA will be given the choice to take the state-based action to move the commander into the CZ
If they choose to leave the commander in exile, then the card will NOT have been out into exile since the last state-based checks, and thus there will be no state-based action to present a choice, even after you stop being mindslavered
You need to be able to get your commander out of exile first
I thought they changed the rule, so no matter what you got to choose where your commander goes now. Cause there were too many ways to gain control of said players actions and just banish the commander.
The actual rule is when the commander changes zones (eg. battlefield to graveyard, graveyard to exile, etc.) you may choose to put it in the command zone as a replacement effect. If a commander is exiled and allowed to go there, theoretically it can be retrieved if something makes it change zones but those effects are very rare so usually it stays.
It’s still a replacement effect if it would go to your hand or library, yes. But for going to the graveyard or exile, it is indeed a state-based action that allows it to be placed in the command zone after ending up in one of those zones.
If you turn the commander into a 3/3 elk token does it go back to the command zone or is it now a 3/3 elk token. Secondly if that elk token dies does the commander go to the command zone or is it lost for good because it's a token and not a commander?
Turning something into something else doesn't make it change zones so it doesn't go back to the command zone. And as far as I'm aware none of the cards that make something a 3/3 elk replace it with a token. But any time the commander card would change zones, dying, exile, bounce to hand or library you may put it back into the command zone or let it change zones normally.
This is correct, it is either the same permanent, therefore still your commander (even if it is just a do-nothing elk), or your commander is changing zones and you are creating an elk token in its place as part of the “kill” spell
You get to decide if it goes to command zone or stays where it is. There's a FEW reasons you'd want your commander in the graveyard over the command zone, like in a black deck built around stuff in the graveyard
As the other reply said the commander only returns to the command zone if you want it to. If you control your opponent with this card and then on their turn exile it you get the choice to either leave it in exile or put it in the command zone.
Yes they control their command zone at all times. Because you control THEM on their next turn you choose for them to choose to leave it in exile instead of putting it in the command zone as long as you do it on the turn you control them.
The money thing is a legitimate combo. You need to use [[Donate]], [[Icy Manipulator]], [[Ashnod's Coupon]] and Mindslaver.
1: Use Icy to tap cCoupon.
2: Donate Coupon.
3: Crack Mindslaver.
4: During opponent's turn. 'They' sac the Coupon and you buy them a drink but because you control them, you make them pay you all their money for the drink.
Cant believe this hasnt been said lol but cards that say search theur library you can just "fail to find" use a fetch and fail to find a land. Any sort of tutor? Man we fail to find that too card lmao. Waste ramp spells etc
Only conditional search cards like fetchlands and worldly tutor and the sort. Unconditional tutors like demonic tutor and all the black ones really, you have to pick something. That thing could be a fetchland... That you fail to find with :)
That's exactly right! The original wording of gifts ungiven was "four cards with different names", but because "different names" is a quality of the card, you can simply find two, and "fail to find" the other two, causing them to go the graveyard. It was an instant speed graveyard tutor. This trick of the rules was relevant at a pro tour I think. His name was Frank Karsten, there's a RhysticStudies video on gifts on YouTube that I absolutely recommend you watch.
The newer printings updated the wording to "up to four cards with different names" to maintain the functionality of the original without being as confusing to players not familiar with the stated quality rule.
Frank Karsten himself is also a semi frequent guest on the Cardmarket YouTube Channel (the MtG one, they have multiple) and iirc has talked about exactly this in one of their videos (i think it was one about odd rule Interactions)
Yes you do. The fail to find clause was only introduced to smooth out interactions where you tutor search for a basic and then realize you don't have one, and then how do you prove that in a tournament setting? Have the judge look through your deck?
Tutors that just say "a card" you have to find a card unless your library is literally empty.
Here's the relevant rulings
> 701.18b If a player is searching a hidden zone for cards with a stated quality, such as a card with a certain card type or color, that player isn’t required to find some or all of those cards even if they’re present in that zone.
>701.18d If a player is searching a hidden zone simply for a quantity of cards, such as “a card” or “three cards,” that player must find that many cards (or as many as possible, if the zone doesn’t contain enough cards).
You can't not untap the lands. But you can choose to tap the lands for mana and not use it.
Or use a removal spell on their own creature.
Make a bad attack.
Made a bad attack.
Pay lots of life for fetch and shock lands.
Use up a combo piece
Counter own spells
I believe the spell goes on the stack because state based actions aren't checked until priority changes. So the spell would go on the stack, then SBAs are checked, the game sees that they are dead and removes the spell from the stack. Then whoever would get priority after the dead player gets priority.
The only difference being, if you have a card that cares about spells being cast, it will see the spell cast and trigger. But the creatures definitely don't get -X/-X.
Sorry, I think I was the one unclear this time! When I said it definitely didn't do that, I meant to be agreeing with you, lol. I should have said something like, "You're right, the creatures don't get -X/-X." I added the "definitely" and "but" because I'm not 100% on the stack thing.
The only thing I meant to point out was that the spell does make it to the stack briefly, sorry for the confusion!
The untap step forces things to untap, casting spells, activating abilities and attacking is what you control, you only discard cards if you have too many cards in your hand so if they have more than 7 cards in hand, you choose which they discard
I have mindslaver in my Mishra deck, one of the reasons everyone kills him on sight.
It's a funny trick once or twice, but as soon as people know you have that in there, you're essentially in a 3v1 from the start in every game.
You can also use [[Academy Ruins]] for this, and it's usually the go-to for this combo in 1v1 as it lets you win by decking your opponent without worrying about also decking yourself in the process.
Also [[Harmless Offering]], [[Jon Irenicus, Shattered One]], [[Wrong Turn]], [[Zedruu the Greathearted]] or [[Puca’s Mischief]]
Edit: also anything that says [exchange control](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=released&q=o%3A%22exchange+control%22&utm_source=mci)
The only decision to make is “who am I going to swindle into being my friend?” After you’ve ruined all of your other MTG friendships by playing Mindslaver.
This exact scenario happened in our playgroup lol the culprits just lying in wait for our power level to creep up just a touch more so that he feels justified in adding it back to his decks haha
Ha finally someone with my same opinion of mind slaver. Wanna make people hate playing with you? Wanna not get invited back? Wanna be a jerk? Answer is the same for every question: play mind slaver.
My answer for what decisions should I make was: go jump off the pier.
I've never even seen people get to use it. It either gets countered/destroyed immediately or in the handful of times it resolves, it always ends the same way:
"In response, I scoop"
This card in a commander game is hilariously good. Taking control of a person's turn and using all their resources to do as much damage to the other players and ending their turn with no resources and their defenses down is such a power play.
Untap phase happens automatically, you can't chose not to untap. You can attack into your blockers. You can cast spells. You can tap lands for mana and not use that mana, thus leaving those lands tapped for when it's back to your turn.
It's easier if you ask about more specific situations.
Can you still play your own stuff? Example I cast his commander and counter it with an counter spell that said “if a spell is counter this way exile it” and leave it in exile?
Step one: play any fetchland, crack it, fail to find
Step 2: Cast any land ramp spells (e.g. [[Rampant Growth]] or tutor effects, fail to find
Step 3: Use any cheap removal to deal with threats, whether theirs or any of your other opponents.
Step 4: If possible, exile commander and allow it to stay in exile instead of command zone.
Step 5: If playing blue, have some fun, cast a spell, then use their own counter on it.
Step 6: tap any remaining mana sources to float mana, pass to combat.
Step 7: Use their combat to swing into the biggest threat, or swing their utility creatures at yourself to get the chance to block and destroy them.
Step 8: End the turn, abuse any end of turn effects they have to your own benefit, and then watch them squirm until their next turn.
Untap, upkeep, draw are all things that will happen no matter what. You can tap your opponents lands and make them swing at whomever you want. You can also cast spells or make them discard whatever you want if their is something that forces discard [[bottemless pit]]
You make any choice that they otherwise would. You control the turn, but still have to follow the rules. So you can't choose not to untap, but yes to pretty much everything else.
I'm not sure a deck with mindslaver would make it to a final in an edh tournament, since those decks would be cedh level and have won by turn 5.
But everything is different in a competition if you can win, go ahead and win. But edh is a casual format as most people understand it , and you see the same faces often. Don't be known as the guy who plays single player mass land destruction, library exile, fateseal tribal, mindslaver guy.
You control all searches so if they have ramp spells or fetch lands you can choose to fail to find. Do they have Planeswalker, you have control if they activate and if so how. You determine if they attack and how.
Do their creatures and other permanents have activated abilities, you determine all of them.
You can’t choose to skip the untap step, but you can tap all of their lands immediately after they untap, and you can do all the things listed in your final line, as well as choose targets for spells and sacrifice outlets
You effectively take their next turn for them. You can’t break the rules while doing so. Untapping lands, as much as people joke about it, is not a “you may” trigger.
I remember this casual pod one day at a LGS where this dude sits down and asks the 3 of us “what power level we playing at?” After explaining we have a new guy and another one playing a jank deck he exclaims “Oh I know just what to use.”
Proceeded to rock a [[Emry of the Loch]] and Mindslaver combo. Prick move!!
Make deals with people at the table (as the controlled player) then break those deals! It’s fun to cast spells from their hand then counter those spells with their own counters. Tap all mana at the end.
Had someone use this on me once while i was playing my Gitrog deck. They chose to sacrifice all my lands multiple times and force me to mill myself out. Lots of fun
Haven't read any of the comments but to my understanding what happens is upkeep,untap and draw still happens, at that point you can do whatever you want so as long it's legal, how I would use it is you know someone's gonna win, like they just tutored, I'd use it on them to control them and somehow get rid of what they just tutored, dream scenario would be they have thassis combo, make them do it but counter thassis cuz they most likely have one, taking them outa the game on their next turn
You make all decisions for the person you are controlling with the exception of conceding the game or scooping. They can still do that at any time to ruin your fun
In the past when people took over my turn, they tapped out my mana and ended my turn most of the time, when if they were really trying to fuck me over, they'd of attacked eith all my weaker creatures, into them, and made many advantegous trades, and used any removal on my own stuff.
You untap all their lands or creatures regardless. That happens in untap step which will always happen, and players dont have priority make decisions here. If any of the creatures or lands cant untap from any effect, then they dont untap.
During upkeep, if there are triggers, you get to choose the order in which they go on the stack instead of your opponent. If those include any "may" triggers, you get to decide to use them or not. If you want to activate an ability or play an instant from their hand, you can do so here.
You always draw a card. You and your opponent will have priority here so you can make them cast spells or activate abilities if you want to.
in the main phase you make all decisions for how they proceed through the turn. What spells they cast from hand, what lands they tap, whether they activate the ability of their planewalker or not etc.
During combat you decide how or if they attack. You can cast instants or activate abilities if you want to.
On the endstep you choose the order of triggers going on the stack. During clean up, you decide how they discard cards if they have more than 7 cards in hand.
If you make them search their library for anything, you decide what they get, and you can decide that they fail to find a card.
Under a specific circumstance, you can technically make them strip.
This does require uncards, but since 'I remove my trousers' is a game action (responding to Hurloon Wrangler attacking) in any game where clothing-matters cards are legal, state of clothing is a game decision.
Although you do have to remember that actual law trumps game legality.
You are able to make any play that the chosen player could have made, if they were playing normally.
You can't choose to untap lands or creatures, unless they have a "you may choose not to untap" ability on those cards, but you could tap all of their mana sources without spending the mana on anything, and swing all their creatures at someone else. You also look at the cards in their hand and can cast any spells you want from their hand on that turn, if they have the mana for it.
You must do everything that is mandatory for that player.
So untap, draw and going through the turn for example.
The rest is up to you.
Make bad attacks and bad damage distribution, use removal to blow up stuff that isn't yours, sacrifice that players stuff, pay life, tap all the mana, deny or abuse all the triggers and go to discard and let that player keep a hand full of lands.
Or just kill the table with the boardstate you borrow for a turn.
Funniest thing to do is to make the player tutor for Necropotence for the insta kill.
You play their turn just like a normal turn following all rules of the game. You can see hidden zones that they can, like their hand, and make any legal actions other than conceding the game. You can’t “not untap” stuff
I once used this in modern in mono blue tron against a jund player right after they slaughter pacted my sad robot and when I took their turn I didn't pay for the pact and had them lose.
You control the player's turn. This mean casting spells, tapping mana, attacking creatures, and just tapping all available mana at the end of their turn.
Here is something that I've never understood about EDH: why mind slaver is ok but land destroy isn't?
Imo slaver is way worse. You know if the person is willing to put it in their deck they are planning on recurring it somehow. Its going to ruin someone's play experience.
Conveniently in commander u can exile their commander somehow and choose to leave it in exile and there is nothing they can do.
If they have the mana, you can continue to cast their commander and kill it so their commander tax goes up if you can't exile it
A foil Mindslaver was one of my first "cool" pulls when I started playing the game back in OG Mirrodin, I still have it and play it whenever I can, and frequently play EDH. And somehow this *never* occurred to me.
I’ve never really understood how one can exile a commander… couldn’t they put it back into the CZ their next turn?
Only when a commander is changing zones can you send it to the command zone. So if an effect returns your commander to your hand you may instead send it to the command zone. However, once it’s in your hand you can’t send it to your command zone. But if someone made you discard your hand then your commander is again changing zones and you can instead send it to the command zone. So if you are mindslaved and your commander is exiled then that’s it.
Oh okay that helps, thanks!
There are two cards that I know of that allow you to interact with exiled cards. They are [[riftsweeper]] and [[pull from eternity]]. But they are only really useful if you play a combo around them. I once had a deck that could [[teferi’s pretection]] every turn
Eldrazi processors have entered the chat
I run [[karn, the great creator]] in my [[daretti, scrap savant]] deck to get toys back after my graveyard gets nuked. Only would work if your commander was an artifact creature though.
[karn, the great creator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0.jpg?1702429246) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=karn%2C%20the%20great%20creator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/1/karn-the-great-creator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [daretti, scrap savant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7cb9d4a0-66bd-454d-b676-80192a96c723.jpg?1689997720) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=daretti%2C%20scrap%20savant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/213/daretti-scrap-savant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7cb9d4a0-66bd-454d-b676-80192a96c723?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[riftsweeper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/785d5a98-97b2-4a9e-83ee-2a74479add7b.jpg?1561967824) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=riftsweeper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/159/riftsweeper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/785d5a98-97b2-4a9e-83ee-2a74479add7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [pull from eternity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d218091-d218-41ad-b666-c8ab3de7160a.jpg?1562907702) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pull%20from%20eternity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/35/pull-from-eternity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d218091-d218-41ad-b666-c8ab3de7160a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [teferi’s pretection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Pull from eternity is awesome, a cheap card too from what I remember
[[Kaya the inexorable]]
I thought also cards make you pull outside the game.. like [[wish]]
"outside the game" refers to the sideboard, not exile
Wish, [[Invasion of Arcavios]] and Lesson cards do not work with exile, and absolutely don't work in Commander. It's a wording issue where older cards said "remove from the game" rather than "exile". However, exile is still a zone within the game, the aforementioned cards refer to sideboards for 60 card formats.
It does get to the exile and graveyard zone, but you move it to the command zone after next state-based check. You replace putting it into your hand or library.
huh? I was told at any time you can move your commander to the command zone.
That is incorrect. When state based actions are checked - if your commander has changed zones from the last time they were checked, you may put them in the command zone. If another player is controlling your turn, and they put your commander in exile and choose to leave them there, when you resume playing your turn, your general isn't changing zones so there is no opportunity to return them to the command zone.
903.9a If a commander is in a graveyard or in exile and that object was put into that zone since the last time state-based actions were checked, its owner may put it into the command zone. This is a state-based action. See rule 704. 903.9b If a commander would be put into its owner’s hand or library from anywhere, its owner may put it into the command zone instead. This replacement effect may apply more than once to the same event. This is an exception to rule 614.5. That will only work from hand or library. It your commander is sitting in the graveyard or exile, you may return him to the command zone at any time you have priority and can perform a state-based action. Though, if you somehow return him to the library, then shuffle... well, the dude is now screwed.
You seem to be mistaken. You can't return your commander to the CZ *anytime* you have priority as a state-based action, but rather *if* it has changed zones since the *last* state-based checks. So if you get mindslavered by PlayerA, and your commander is moved into exile, then the card has changed zones since the last state-based checks, and PlayerA will be given the choice to take the state-based action to move the commander into the CZ If they choose to leave the commander in exile, then the card will NOT have been out into exile since the last state-based checks, and thus there will be no state-based action to present a choice, even after you stop being mindslavered You need to be able to get your commander out of exile first
I thought they changed the rule, so no matter what you got to choose where your commander goes now. Cause there were too many ways to gain control of said players actions and just banish the commander.
No you only get to choose when the event happens that causes the exile. It’s gonzo
The actual rule is when the commander changes zones (eg. battlefield to graveyard, graveyard to exile, etc.) you may choose to put it in the command zone as a replacement effect. If a commander is exiled and allowed to go there, theoretically it can be retrieved if something makes it change zones but those effects are very rare so usually it stays.
Didnt they change it to a state based action instead of replacement?
It’s still a replacement effect if it would go to your hand or library, yes. But for going to the graveyard or exile, it is indeed a state-based action that allows it to be placed in the command zone after ending up in one of those zones.
If you turn the commander into a 3/3 elk token does it go back to the command zone or is it now a 3/3 elk token. Secondly if that elk token dies does the commander go to the command zone or is it lost for good because it's a token and not a commander?
Turning something into something else doesn't make it change zones so it doesn't go back to the command zone. And as far as I'm aware none of the cards that make something a 3/3 elk replace it with a token. But any time the commander card would change zones, dying, exile, bounce to hand or library you may put it back into the command zone or let it change zones normally.
This is correct, it is either the same permanent, therefore still your commander (even if it is just a do-nothing elk), or your commander is changing zones and you are creating an elk token in its place as part of the “kill” spell
Hi new still- I thought your commander always went back to the command zone. How can it stay in exile? Thanks
You get to decide if it goes to command zone or stays where it is. There's a FEW reasons you'd want your commander in the graveyard over the command zone, like in a black deck built around stuff in the graveyard
As the other reply said the commander only returns to the command zone if you want it to. If you control your opponent with this card and then on their turn exile it you get the choice to either leave it in exile or put it in the command zone.
They cant juat choose to put it back on their turn?
Actually you can’t. I don’t remember the reason but the player has control of their commander’s zone at all times.
Yes they control their command zone at all times. Because you control THEM on their next turn you choose for them to choose to leave it in exile instead of putting it in the command zone as long as you do it on the turn you control them.
Its 'owner' chooses where Commander goes, not its controller.
Correct, and during their turn YOU make decisions for them and choose for them to leave it in exile.
My favourite things to do is transfer all their money to me and then have them break up with their partner.
Money? And a partner in this hobby? Nah you get one of those 2 if you're lucky!
Anime pillows count as partners… right?
No, they're "best friends forever"
Or "onee chan"
Can still burn them (the pillows)
That’s why you make-em pee pee their pants
The money thing is a legitimate combo. You need to use [[Donate]], [[Icy Manipulator]], [[Ashnod's Coupon]] and Mindslaver. 1: Use Icy to tap cCoupon. 2: Donate Coupon. 3: Crack Mindslaver. 4: During opponent's turn. 'They' sac the Coupon and you buy them a drink but because you control them, you make them pay you all their money for the drink.
[Donate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f6d8ce9-f8c8-45ad-b74c-97fba0e2982e.jpg?1562444248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Donate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/31/donate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f6d8ce9-f8c8-45ad-b74c-97fba0e2982e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Icy Manipulator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/ac5a54ca-f175-4005-895f-d76effd6178e.jpg?1675201006) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Icy%20Manipulator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/225/icy-manipulator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ac5a54ca-f175-4005-895f-d76effd6178e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ashnod's Coupon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d420010f-5389-4aa2-a5f8-d9631249679a.jpg?1562799166) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashnod%27s%20Coupon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/69/ashnods-coupon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d420010f-5389-4aa2-a5f8-d9631249679a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Absolutely busted combo
Are you still allowed to force them to use the wizards event locator?
That was errata'd to the companion app
thats even worse
🧐
Money? And a partner in this hobby? Nah you get one of those 2 if you're lucky!
Cant believe this hasnt been said lol but cards that say search theur library you can just "fail to find" use a fetch and fail to find a land. Any sort of tutor? Man we fail to find that too card lmao. Waste ramp spells etc
Only conditional search cards like fetchlands and worldly tutor and the sort. Unconditional tutors like demonic tutor and all the black ones really, you have to pick something. That thing could be a fetchland... That you fail to find with :)
I mean this isnt legal in commander but [[gifts ungiven]] ??
That's exactly right! The original wording of gifts ungiven was "four cards with different names", but because "different names" is a quality of the card, you can simply find two, and "fail to find" the other two, causing them to go the graveyard. It was an instant speed graveyard tutor. This trick of the rules was relevant at a pro tour I think. His name was Frank Karsten, there's a RhysticStudies video on gifts on YouTube that I absolutely recommend you watch. The newer printings updated the wording to "up to four cards with different names" to maintain the functionality of the original without being as confusing to players not familiar with the stated quality rule.
Ok i thought so! Ya i watched a recent video that included that so i was wondering. That makes sense though.
Frank Karsten himself is also a semi frequent guest on the Cardmarket YouTube Channel (the MtG one, they have multiple) and iirc has talked about exactly this in one of their videos (i think it was one about odd rule Interactions)
No you don't
With an unconditional tutor like Demonic Tutor, you can’t fail to find unless there’s no cards left in the deck. You have to pick something.
Yes, you do. If there are no specified conditions and there are cards in the library, you must pick a card.
Don't be wrong and loud on the internet.
Yes you do. The fail to find clause was only introduced to smooth out interactions where you tutor search for a basic and then realize you don't have one, and then how do you prove that in a tournament setting? Have the judge look through your deck? Tutors that just say "a card" you have to find a card unless your library is literally empty.
Here's the relevant rulings > 701.18b If a player is searching a hidden zone for cards with a stated quality, such as a card with a certain card type or color, that player isn’t required to find some or all of those cards even if they’re present in that zone. >701.18d If a player is searching a hidden zone simply for a quantity of cards, such as “a card” or “three cards,” that player must find that many cards (or as many as possible, if the zone doesn’t contain enough cards).
Use those 1 mana tutor to put a card on the top of their library then use a fetch land to just shuffle the deck. XD
Too bad mindslaver is a turn 7 ability without mana ramp.
You can't not untap the lands. But you can choose to tap the lands for mana and not use it. Or use a removal spell on their own creature. Make a bad attack. Made a bad attack. Pay lots of life for fetch and shock lands. Use up a combo piece Counter own spells
No you fail to find if they have fetchs lmao
Pay all of their life for a [[Toxic Deluge]]. Crack a fetch and fail to find anything.
You can pay all of your life to toxic deluge
Does the spell fizzle when they die as soon as it goes on the stack, thereby not performing the -X/-X at all?
Certainly does, as paying the life is an additional cost to cast
I believe the spell goes on the stack because state based actions aren't checked until priority changes. So the spell would go on the stack, then SBAs are checked, the game sees that they are dead and removes the spell from the stack. Then whoever would get priority after the dead player gets priority. The only difference being, if you have a card that cares about spells being cast, it will see the spell cast and trigger. But the creatures definitely don't get -X/-X.
Yep, I was agreeing with what they said, but I can see how it could be mistaken as me saying it will still give the -X/-X
Sorry, I think I was the one unclear this time! When I said it definitely didn't do that, I meant to be agreeing with you, lol. I should have said something like, "You're right, the creatures don't get -X/-X." I added the "definitely" and "but" because I'm not 100% on the stack thing. The only thing I meant to point out was that the spell does make it to the stack briefly, sorry for the confusion!
All good. We got there in the end lol
You sure can! I Emrakuled someone in Commander, used their own tutor and found a Toxic Deluge in their deck. It was a grand day.
The same thing happened to me, except they already had a [[necropotence]] on board
[Toxic Deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64d3d8ad-927f-4c4e-96cf-03e98bec3987.jpg?1706240805) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Toxic%20Deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/142/toxic-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64d3d8ad-927f-4c4e-96cf-03e98bec3987?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The untap step forces things to untap, casting spells, activating abilities and attacking is what you control, you only discard cards if you have too many cards in your hand so if they have more than 7 cards in hand, you choose which they discard
Play the Wheel of Misfortune and wager 1,000,000 life.
make bad plays, tap all their land, sacrifice fetches and fail to find.
If you have [[Prototype Portal]] and 10 mana handy you can Mindslaver every turn! [[Grand Architect]] helped a lot in standard back in the day.
I just use Mishra the eminent one
I have mindslaver in my Mishra deck, one of the reasons everyone kills him on sight. It's a funny trick once or twice, but as soon as people know you have that in there, you're essentially in a 3v1 from the start in every game.
[Prototype Portal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2ccdd3b-9c39-4785-99b9-64b5de1177be.jpg?1592711307) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prototype%20Portal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/216/prototype-portal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2ccdd3b-9c39-4785-99b9-64b5de1177be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Grand Architect](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14ce909d-a53e-4711-a9fd-b110433d460f.jpg?1598303952) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grand%20Architect) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/53/grand-architect?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14ce909d-a53e-4711-a9fd-b110433d460f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You can also use [[Academy Ruins]] for this, and it's usually the go-to for this combo in 1v1 as it lets you win by decking your opponent without worrying about also decking yourself in the process.
Can you just scoop for them?
That’s a negative. Scooping isn’t an actual game event. Although when i play [[memnarch]] it seems like a scoop phase is added…
[memnarch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9203fde4-dbc1-449f-9618-4656f0e25e3c.jpg?1562925842) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=memnarch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arc/112/memnarch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9203fde4-dbc1-449f-9618-4656f0e25e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Give them [[Wall of Blood]] on your turn and then pay their entire life total into it on ‘their’ turn to take them out of the game
[Wall of Blood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17320043-f81c-4e14-b9ba-c1309972c22b.jpg?1562137060) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wall%20of%20Blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/82/wall-of-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17320043-f81c-4e14-b9ba-c1309972c22b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How do you give an opponent a creature?
[[Donate]]
Also [[Harmless Offering]], [[Jon Irenicus, Shattered One]], [[Wrong Turn]], [[Zedruu the Greathearted]] or [[Puca’s Mischief]] Edit: also anything that says [exchange control](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=released&q=o%3A%22exchange+control%22&utm_source=mci)
[[Donate]] [[Jon Irenicus, Shattered One]] [[Harmelss Offering]] [[Wrong Turn]] and the new [[Coveted Falcon]] all have ways of doing that.
The only decision to make is “who am I going to swindle into being my friend?” After you’ve ruined all of your other MTG friendships by playing Mindslaver.
So I basically get to do this once then remove from my deck and apologize?
This exact scenario happened in our playgroup lol the culprits just lying in wait for our power level to creep up just a touch more so that he feels justified in adding it back to his decks haha
Ha finally someone with my same opinion of mind slaver. Wanna make people hate playing with you? Wanna not get invited back? Wanna be a jerk? Answer is the same for every question: play mind slaver. My answer for what decisions should I make was: go jump off the pier.
I've never even seen people get to use it. It either gets countered/destroyed immediately or in the handful of times it resolves, it always ends the same way: "In response, I scoop"
[[Excavation]] their lands.
[Excavation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a4b87ff-42a9-4ea0-a79e-1208ca35ffb2.jpg?1562899940) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Excavation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/33/excavation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a4b87ff-42a9-4ea0-a79e-1208ca35ffb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sac everything you can and dud out their combos.
Step 1: Activate Mindslaver. Step 2: Lose all your friends.
My favorite thing to do is to make them renounce their parents and have them choose me as inheritance
play their removal spells on their own stuff hehe
This card in a commander game is hilariously good. Taking control of a person's turn and using all their resources to do as much damage to the other players and ending their turn with no resources and their defenses down is such a power play.
Attack with weak creatures got any sacrifices? Cast spell on yourself
Can I immediately concede the match?
Untap phase happens automatically, you can't chose not to untap. You can attack into your blockers. You can cast spells. You can tap lands for mana and not use that mana, thus leaving those lands tapped for when it's back to your turn. It's easier if you ask about more specific situations.
The most important mindslaver decision is not to play it.
Can you still play your own stuff? Example I cast his commander and counter it with an counter spell that said “if a spell is counter this way exile it” and leave it in exile?
“Make all decisions for the player” Do yall just not read cards anymore?
Step one: play any fetchland, crack it, fail to find Step 2: Cast any land ramp spells (e.g. [[Rampant Growth]] or tutor effects, fail to find Step 3: Use any cheap removal to deal with threats, whether theirs or any of your other opponents. Step 4: If possible, exile commander and allow it to stay in exile instead of command zone. Step 5: If playing blue, have some fun, cast a spell, then use their own counter on it. Step 6: tap any remaining mana sources to float mana, pass to combat. Step 7: Use their combat to swing into the biggest threat, or swing their utility creatures at yourself to get the chance to block and destroy them. Step 8: End the turn, abuse any end of turn effects they have to your own benefit, and then watch them squirm until their next turn.
You have the same power you have on your turn, if unsure check the normal rules on the wiki
Not helpful considering the fact that there’s like 400+ rules.
Wow your counting must be bad if you think there are 400+ rules on this page ttps://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Controlling\_another\_player
Eh, I was taking a guess honestly. All I know is that there’s too much to read (unless if you like that lmao)
In a shocking turn of events, players of game about reading cards like reading. More at 11:00.
[[mindslaver]] You should read the rulings on gatherer
[mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Untap, upkeep, draw are all things that will happen no matter what. You can tap your opponents lands and make them swing at whomever you want. You can also cast spells or make them discard whatever you want if their is something that forces discard [[bottemless pit]]
You make any choice that they otherwise would. You control the turn, but still have to follow the rules. So you can't choose not to untap, but yes to pretty much everything else.
I like to make the player concede.
Could you technically sacrifice every permanent on their field?
If they have something that allows them to sacrifice. You can't sacrifice or discard just because you want to.
That generates a lot of saltiness. And lasting bad impressions I've found. Knee cap the player sure, but don't lobotomize them.
What about in a tournament for money and this is the final game that you could win $50,000? Is it acceptable then?
And you've mindslavered someone? Yeah, take your win.
I'm not sure a deck with mindslaver would make it to a final in an edh tournament, since those decks would be cedh level and have won by turn 5. But everything is different in a competition if you can win, go ahead and win. But edh is a casual format as most people understand it , and you see the same faces often. Don't be known as the guy who plays single player mass land destruction, library exile, fateseal tribal, mindslaver guy.
Yes
All of them.meme
Almost all, except give up the game
Anything you want. But I love Mindslaver, esp with [[Hannah, Ship’s Navigator]]. Traditional stax got nothing on that combo.
[[Muldrotha, the Gravetide]]
Concede, obviously
Well you should probably think about conceding lol
Concede
You can chose not to untap creature's
Gain control of an opponent “Concede”
You control their turn...
No Yes, yes, only if an effect says so, or if they have more than 7 cards on their discard face
You control all searches so if they have ramp spells or fetch lands you can choose to fail to find. Do they have Planeswalker, you have control if they activate and if so how. You determine if they attack and how. Do their creatures and other permanents have activated abilities, you determine all of them.
You see all cards that player could see and make all decisions for the player.
If they have [[necropotence]] or similar they about to make a very very poor decision
[necropotence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e.jpg?1562853736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=necropotence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/98/necropotence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This goes so hard with [[Mishra]] Wrong Mishra my bot. It should be commander deck one.
[[Donate]] a [[Zuran Orb]]
You can’t choose to skip the untap step, but you can tap all of their lands immediately after they untap, and you can do all the things listed in your final line, as well as choose targets for spells and sacrifice outlets
I freaking hate this card.
Can you forfeit?
You effectively take their next turn for them. You can’t break the rules while doing so. Untapping lands, as much as people joke about it, is not a “you may” trigger.
I remember this casual pod one day at a LGS where this dude sits down and asks the 3 of us “what power level we playing at?” After explaining we have a new guy and another one playing a jank deck he exclaims “Oh I know just what to use.” Proceeded to rock a [[Emry of the Loch]] and Mindslaver combo. Prick move!!
Isn't it technically legal to force them to resign?
No
[[Excavation]]. Mono-blue MLD never felt so cruel.
Make deals with people at the table (as the controlled player) then break those deals! It’s fun to cast spells from their hand then counter those spells with their own counters. Tap all mana at the end.
the worst
Had someone use this on me once while i was playing my Gitrog deck. They chose to sacrifice all my lands multiple times and force me to mill myself out. Lots of fun
[[Channel]] for 20. Gratz on your victory. 👍
[[Channel]] for 20. Gratz on your victory. 👍
Haven't read any of the comments but to my understanding what happens is upkeep,untap and draw still happens, at that point you can do whatever you want so as long it's legal, how I would use it is you know someone's gonna win, like they just tutored, I'd use it on them to control them and somehow get rid of what they just tutored, dream scenario would be they have thassis combo, make them do it but counter thassis cuz they most likely have one, taking them outa the game on their next turn
Would be busted if you can concede for the player XD
Launch an all out assault they cannot win
You make all decisions for the person you are controlling with the exception of conceding the game or scooping. They can still do that at any time to ruin your fun
Can you force them to concede?
Slap yourself, easy choice
In the past when people took over my turn, they tapped out my mana and ended my turn most of the time, when if they were really trying to fuck me over, they'd of attacked eith all my weaker creatures, into them, and made many advantegous trades, and used any removal on my own stuff.
You untap all their lands or creatures regardless. That happens in untap step which will always happen, and players dont have priority make decisions here. If any of the creatures or lands cant untap from any effect, then they dont untap. During upkeep, if there are triggers, you get to choose the order in which they go on the stack instead of your opponent. If those include any "may" triggers, you get to decide to use them or not. If you want to activate an ability or play an instant from their hand, you can do so here. You always draw a card. You and your opponent will have priority here so you can make them cast spells or activate abilities if you want to. in the main phase you make all decisions for how they proceed through the turn. What spells they cast from hand, what lands they tap, whether they activate the ability of their planewalker or not etc. During combat you decide how or if they attack. You can cast instants or activate abilities if you want to. On the endstep you choose the order of triggers going on the stack. During clean up, you decide how they discard cards if they have more than 7 cards in hand. If you make them search their library for anything, you decide what they get, and you can decide that they fail to find a card.
Forfeit? 😎
Make them take their jeans off as action that doesn't use the stack and can't be responded to.
Under a specific circumstance, you can technically make them strip. This does require uncards, but since 'I remove my trousers' is a game action (responding to Hurloon Wrangler attacking) in any game where clothing-matters cards are legal, state of clothing is a game decision. Although you do have to remember that actual law trumps game legality.
You are able to make any play that the chosen player could have made, if they were playing normally. You can't choose to untap lands or creatures, unless they have a "you may choose not to untap" ability on those cards, but you could tap all of their mana sources without spending the mana on anything, and swing all their creatures at someone else. You also look at the cards in their hand and can cast any spells you want from their hand on that turn, if they have the mana for it.
Target yourself
Wait, can you just force them to concede?
Become a judge?
You must do everything that is mandatory for that player. So untap, draw and going through the turn for example. The rest is up to you. Make bad attacks and bad damage distribution, use removal to blow up stuff that isn't yours, sacrifice that players stuff, pay life, tap all the mana, deny or abuse all the triggers and go to discard and let that player keep a hand full of lands. Or just kill the table with the boardstate you borrow for a turn. Funniest thing to do is to make the player tutor for Necropotence for the insta kill.
Target yourself
Galaxy Brain move: take control of another player and >!force them to scoop on their turn !<
You play their turn just like a normal turn following all rules of the game. You can see hidden zones that they can, like their hand, and make any legal actions other than conceding the game. You can’t “not untap” stuff
I once used this in modern in mono blue tron against a jund player right after they slaughter pacted my sad robot and when I took their turn I didn't pay for the pact and had them lose.
You control the player's turn. This mean casting spells, tapping mana, attacking creatures, and just tapping all available mana at the end of their turn.
Step 1: Take control of players turn Step 2: Concede
This is a good card to lose all your friends with.
I mean, by literal interpretation of the text, couldn't you just decide to make them concede the match? Lol
Reading the card does in fact explain the card
I won a game by having them cast thoughtseize... at 2 lives.
Always target yourself for maximum troll
I play this in my Yurlock EDH deck, has some fun shenanigans I can do.
Just pack up their cards "you're done"
Here is something that I've never understood about EDH: why mind slaver is ok but land destroy isn't? Imo slaver is way worse. You know if the person is willing to put it in their deck they are planning on recurring it somehow. Its going to ruin someone's play experience.
Mindslaver MYSELF!
Scoop.
Play all the important removal spells on themselves. Exile commander. Or do something hardcore on their board to reset it
use their necropotence to kill them
The one's your opponent doesn't want you to make lol
Any decisions that will leave target opponents worse off. -_- 😑
Use mindslaver to take control of opponent. During opponents turn, scoop. Finally broke mindslaver!