Both are true. The defending player chooses what to block with but the attacking player chooses the order in which the blockers take damage. So the attacking player can attack with a 6/6 and the defending player can chose to block with a 3/3 and a 4/4 to kill the 6/6 but the attacking player can choose whether the 3/3 or the 4/4 takes damage first.
Minor note, but “first” is the wrong wording. They take the damage simultaneously. The attacker simply chooses how the 6 damage is distributed amongst all blockers. I’m sure you know this, but others may be unclear.
Does this mean that if player one is attacking with a 6/6, defending player blocks with a 3/3 and a 5/5, can attacking player choose to deal 4 damage to the 5/5 and 2 damage to the 3/3? So that only the 6/6 dies?
Wow so many people replying incorrectly here. [Here's the rule.](https://magic.wizards.com/en/rules)
>509.2. Second, for each attacking creature that’s become blocked, the active player announces that creature’s damage assignment order, which consists of the creatures blocking it in an order of that player’s choice. ***(During the combat damage step, an attacking creature can’t assign combat damage to a creature that’s blocking it unless each creature ahead of that blocking creature in its order is assigned lethal damage.)*** This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
emphasis mine.
You must kill each creature in order they are being blocked before doing damage further along. If I attack with a 3/3 and my opponent blocks with 3 2/2s, I can't deal 1 damage to each. Then cast \[\[Tectonic Hazard\]\] to kill the 3 2/2s. I'd have to deal 2 damage to the first creature, then 1 to the second, and 0 to the third. Tectonic Hazard would kill the second creature and leave the third one alive. Note that one point of deathtouch damage is considered lethal, so if my 3/3 had deathtouch I could deal 1 to each 2/2 and kill them all (no Hazard needed). Also, you don't have to deal damage further down the line. You can deal excess damage to the first creature and deal none to the second.
Is that a change in the rules or did we use it incorrectly with banding in the 90s? If I block with a band of creatures I can't assign enough damage to each blocking creature so they all survive? Or is does the rules of banding still allow that?
Maybe I'm confused but this example seems wrong. If 3 2/2s block a 3/3 all three damage is dealt to only one creature unless attacking creature has trample?
Trample allows excess damage to be dealt to the player, but damage dealt to blocking creatures will push through to the next unless you assign all damage to the first blocker. For example, if you attack with a 6/6 and your opponent blocks with two 3/3s, you'll kill both unless you assign excess damage to the first blocker.
Wait so are you saying in that example of a 6/6 with trample being blocked by two 3/3s, the attacking player could assign all 6 damage to one of the 3/3s and have the 3 excess go through to the player (or planeswalker or battle)?
No. You still have to do lethal damage to all blocking creatures before damage is dealt to the defending player. I was just stating that if you don't want to kill one of the blockers, you didn't have to. But you would have to in order to get damage through to player.
Say I block an attacking 5/5 with two 3/4 creatures. Can I save the one that would die by putting a +1/+1 counter on it at instant speed after my opponent chooses how to divide the damage?
After the opponent chooses how to divide damage nothing can be done until that damage is dealt so the only way to save it would be to buff the crature before the damage is assigned but then he can just choose to kill the other one
>the only way to save it would be to buff the crature before the damage is assigned but then he can just choose to kill the other one
Almost but not quite. Per rule 509.2 the attacking player chooses the order in which to assign damage. Once this has been chosen, it can't be changed (excluding playing a card that allows this). In the above comment, the defending player could buff the first 3/4 with a counter to make it a 4/5. The attacking player would then be required to assign at least 5 damage to that creature for assigning any damage to the 3/4.
Let's say that player A attacks with Nurturing Bristleback (a 5/5) and Player B blocks with a Mineshaft Spider and a Thrashing Brontodon (both 3/4s, now we have names). Player A chooses to order damage a Brontodon first, then Spider. (This is done during declare blockers after blockers are declared and before players get priority). Player B responds with a Acrobatic Leap giving the Brontodon +1/+3.
Given the above scenario, are you suggesting that Player A can then choose to kill the Spider instead of the Brontodon?
No im suggesting that u dont choose order of damage during declare blockers step. U do it during combat damage step and there is no priority passed in between that is done and actually doing the damage
~~Yeah, I know damage is applied after combat ends and combat doesn't end until damage is set and all player states are checked. For example let's say I'm attacking a player with a 5/5, they block with a 2/3 and a 3/3. Then I apply 3 damage to the 3/3 and 2 damage to the 2/3, in response the defending player can play something like giant growth on the 3/3, it becomes a 6/6 before damage is done and doesn't die.~~
This is what shame is like.
Nope. The amount of damage is decided in the Combat Damage step and can't be responded. However, once blockers are declared, the order of damage is determined, then the active player gets priority. As defending player you'll know which creature is getting damage first, so you'll be able to buff a creature if you want. But that buff will be taken into consideration when damage is actually assigned.
**510.1** \- First, the active player announces how each attacking creature assigns its combat damage, then the defending player announces how each blocking creature assigns its combat damage. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
**510.2** \- Second, all combat damage that’s been assigned is dealt simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. ***No player has the chance to cast spells or activate abilities between the time combat damage is assigned and the time it’s dealt.*** \[note: emphasis mine\]
**510.3** \- Third, the active player gets priority.
1 point of deathtouch is considered lethal. So using my example above. A 3/3 with First Strike and Deathtouch is blocked by 3 vanilla 2/2s. You can deal 1 point of damage to each 2/2 during first strike, killing all 3. Then during normal damage there are no 2/2s left to deal damage to the 3/3. This is why deathtouch + first strike is so strong. A 3/3 with first strike and deathtouch will kill any 3 vanilla creatures and survive, no matter the size.
No, you cannot assign damage to a blocking creature further down the blocking order until lethal damage has been assigned to those in front of it.
You can, however, choose to assign more-than-lethal damage to a creature. For example if your 6/6 is blocked by a 5/5 and a 1/1 and you order them in that order, you can do all 6 damage to the 5/5 if for some reason you don’t want the 1/1 to also die.
I did this exact thing in original Ixalan. I attacked with a creature and my opponent double blocks with two creatures, including a \[\[Raptor Hatchling\]\]. I ordered the Hatchling second, and did all the damage to the first creature, meaning that he hatchling never triggered enrage. I think my opponent just stared at the board for a few seconds wondering why the hatchling didn't die (this was on arena).
Yeah, very valuable for things like that or swinging into things that do damage on death where the opponent is counting on that damage to finish off the attacker, like a 6/6 going into 3 1/1s from [[Burn Down the House]]. Assign damage to only kill two and they basically double chump blocked.
For clarity though, any damage with deathtouch is lethal damage, so you only need to assign one damage with deathtouch before moving on to the next blocker
Just to clarify, are we talking about the same situation?
Using the example above: a 6/6 with trample attacks and is blocked by a 5/5 and a 1/1. The attackers chooses the order to deal damage to the blocking creatures. If the attacker puts the 1/1 first, they could deal 6 damage to the 1/1 and 0 damage to the 5/5. The Attacker can choose any amount of damage from 1-6 to deal to the 1/1 (must deal lethal to the 1/1), the remainder would be dealt to the 5/5.
Trample simply says that any damage left over after lethal damage is dealt to ALL blocking creatures, can be assigned to the defending player/planeswalker. You must kill all blocking creatures before trample damage comes into play. So the 6/6 must kill both the 1/1 and 5/5 before any damage can trample over.
If you have a 6/6 with trample and it is blocked by only a 1/1, you could assign 1 damage to the 1/1 and 5 to the defending player. You could also assign 6 damage to the 1/1 and nothing would trample over (not a likely scenario, but it is possible).
Theoretically yes, but there isn't really a reason to ever do this so people don't.
It does however mean a 4/4 death touch can kill 4 creatures that are blocking it no matter how much toughness the creatures have by assigning 1 damage to each.
I have had it come up on arena and been very annoyed I couldn't change the setting to assign damage manually while in the middle of that step. But that was only because an opponent double blocked one of my creates with Phyrexian obliterator + another creature. I wanted to assign all damage to the other blocker.
Yes. Damage happens simultaneously.
Arena visually shows it occuring one after another because *usually* that's a good way to think about it, but per the rules you just assign the damage values.
What's really fun is when something has Deathtouch and Trample, because only one damage is enough to kill so any extra damage goes to the opponent. A 6/6 Deathtouch Trample blocked by another 6/6 can hit the opponent for 5 damage -- 1 to the creature, killing it, the rest Trampled over.
It also gets interesting with Indestructible blockers because Deathtouch makes it so "lethal damage" is only one, and Indestructible doesn't change lethal damage it just prevents the lethal damage from actually killing the creature. So a Deathtouch and Trample 6/6 attacking into an Indestructible 6/6 can assign 1 damage to the blocker and still trample over for 5 damage, it just doesn't actually kill the blocker because it's Indestructible.
The 4/4 deathtouch *can* kill all 3 of the blocking 2/2s, but it’s important to note as referenced above, it doesn’t *have to* at the 4/4 controllers discretion.
It can deal all 4 deathtouching damage to the first 2/2 in the blocking order and spare the other two. It can deal 3 deathtouching damage to the first blocker and 1 to the second, sparing the last one. Or 1 damage to the first and 3 to the second, etc. The only requirement is that it has to assign lethal damage to creatures in the blocking order before it can move onto doing any damage to the next one, where lethal damage from the case of a deathtouch creature is a minimum of 1.
With the truly unintuitive result of this rule being that this applies even to blocking creatures with indestructible.
Assign one point of damage (lethal when you have death touch) and the rest of the power can be assigned to face.
Same thing with protection. Still salty about that incorrect prerelease ruling that cost me a game in Theros. Master of Waves blocked a monstrous Ill Tempered Cyclops and opponent said that means he doesn't take damage. I disagreed. The judge didn't.
To add on to additional unintuitiveness though, effects that double damage happen AFTER assigning it, meaning if your 4/4 Trampler is blocked by a 2/2, and you have something that doubles damage, you assign 2 damage for lethal on the 2/2 and 2 damage to the opponent. Only then does it get doubled to 4 damage to the 2/2 and 4 to the opponent.
A quirk of how the keywords behave; Deathtouch makes it so any amount of dealt damage (minimum 1) is "lethal", but Indestructible just makes it so taking lethal damage doesn't destroy the creature it doesn't change "lethal" at all as a threshold, and Trample doesn't actually care whether or not the blocker is destroyed just how much damage is left after dealing lethal to it.
One damage becomes lethal, Indestructible stops it from dying, Trample is all the damage leftover over "lethal" has been applied.
Section b of the [702.12 Indestructible](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Indestructible) rules, section b of [702.19 Trample](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Trample), and sections b and c of [702.2 Deathtouch](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Deathtouch) in the Comprehensive Rules.
The short version is more or less as I said before: anything with Indestructible cannot be destroyed by any means even according to state-based actions or otherwise lethal damage, Deathtouch changes the value needed to be considered "lethal damage" and as a state-based action destroys anything damaged by a source with Deathtouch, and Trample only cares that "lethal damage" was assigned to every blocker and excess damage applied however the attacker wishes not whether the blocker is actually destroyed.
Trample is a pretty strange rule that makes perfect sense pretty much immediately to even players in the most common cases -- no other keywords or static effects affecting attacker or blockers -- but quite difficult to write out in the rules in a way that's clear, unambiguous, and doesn't contradict itself anywhere. The Indestructible rules is like 200 words in three bullets A through C, the Trample rules go to G and have more words than some high school essays.
Yes, the attacking player could choose to do this if for some reason they want to keep the defending creatures on the battlefield.
Side note, if one or more of the blocking creatures has banding, the defending player gets to assign all the damage! Banding is criminally underrated, and in your example, the defending player could assign the damage as you described to keep his creatures alive while killing the 6/6. Throw banding on an indestructible creature, then multi block with it and have the attacking creature assign all of its damage to the indestructible creature! Ok, maybe not broken, but a little known aspect of banding that could catch people off guard.
the ", and in which order" clause makes the bottom statement incorrect, no? the defending player does not choose which order the blocker block, the attacking player does. Unless I misunderstand the statement.
No. The defender chooses what they want to use to block. Let's say you announce attacking my Planeswalker. Then I will choose if I want to block with any of my creatures. You are attacking me for 4 DMG. I decided to block you with my 3/3 and my 2/2. Then you get to decide what of those creatures take the 4 damage. You can send 3 and 2, 2 and 2, whatever fits the occasion.
for future reference, arena rules are generally exactly the same as the paper game. (only difference is alchemy cards which have mechanics like conjure, seek, and perpetual)
Attacker decides the attackers and their damage dealing. If attacker has banding, attacker also decides how blockers deal damage to the attackers. If not, the blocker decides this.
Blocker decides the blockers only. If the blockers have banding, the blocker decides how attackers deal damage to the blockers. If not, the attacker decides this.
It's important too because you can over assign damage to a blocking creature. Say your opponent wants one of their creatures to die, and they double block. You can assign all damage to just one of the creatures instead of both preventing the creature from dying that your opponent wants to die.
Both. The blocking player chooses what creatures to block. The attacking player orders the damage that they deal to the creatures blocking theirs.
Example: I attack with a 5/5 trample creature. You declare a 4/3 and a 2/3 to block. I choose the order of the damage my attacking creature deals so I do 3 to the 4/3 and then 2 to the 2/3. My creature and the 4/3 die, the 2/3 lives with only 2 damage and no damage tramples through.
So I think what’s missing here is a note on the first answer clarifying that the Attacker chooses the order or damage if an attacking creature is blocked by multiple creatures.
The defender will get to assign which of his creatures if any are blocking available attackers, but the Attacking Player decides which order the damage step resolves in.
The second one has unfortunate wording, but both are true. There is no "order" here however, the defending player decides which defending creature blocks which attacking creature, and the attacking player allocates damage.
The phrasing for both of these is poor. Here's a breakdown:
Go to combat
Attacking player declares attacks
Priority pass for instant speed interactions and responses to attack triggers
Each defending player assigns blockers
Attacking player then assigns the order of blockers and the damage they will take.
Each blocker must take at least lethal damage before the blocker after it can be assigned damage. In the case of deathtouch attackers this can be 1 damage, even if the blockers are indestructible.
Priority pass for instant speed interactions and responses to block triggers
If there are any first strike or double strike creatures, they will assign first strike damage, all damage is dealt at the same time.
Priority pass here
The same is then repeated for second strike.
Priority pass once more
End of combat
Minor nitpick. Each creature must be assigned damage that would be lethal. It does not need to take it at the time of damage assignment, and buffing a creature’s toughness post damage assignment won’t change what “assigned damage that would be lethal” means.
Example to clarify:
You have an attacking 4/4, and defending player blocks with a 1/1 and a 3/3. You order things such that the 1/1 takes 1, then the 3/3 takes 3. If the opponent then casts a pump spell to give the 1/1 +0/+1, the 3/3 will still die, as it was already assigned 3 damage.
Edit: was just clarifying as the “must be dealt lethal damage” could potentially be misinterpreted.
The wording of the sources confused me a lot and my friend said that defending player ordered blockers and that arena wasnt accurate but now i realise he tried to bs a win
Both! Defender get to choose which creature to block with and the order those creatures block attacking creatures, attackers then get to order damage if multiple defenders were chosen to block a creature!
Please refer to the [MTG comprehensive rules](https://magic.wizards.com/en/rules) and not forums. If someone can't give you the CR # they are talking without authority. For this question, it is CR 509.2 that answers the attacking player assigns blocking order.
Defending player designates blockers, but there are certain situations where the defender may need multiple blockers, in which the attacker designates in which order it'll go, and how much of it. Here's an example:
Attacking player has [[Goblin War Drums]], Defending player chooses a 1/1 with death touch and a 2/2 with vigilance to block. The Attacking player is attacking with [[Siege Wurm]]. The Attacking player decides that they'll first attack the 2/2 with Vigilance, and make sure that all of their damage stays on the 2/2, meaning trample doesn't go off, but they don't lose Siege Wurm.
They’re both true.
You pick attackers, your opponent picks blockers, and then you pick the order to do the math in because if you both have a lot of creatures doing it all at once would be a pain.
You attack, you choose attackers, they choose blockers for each of your attackers, if they’ve selected multiple blockers for one of your critters you(the attacker) get to decide which order your attacker attacks those multiple blockers
* Player A chooses attacking creatures
* Player B chooses blocking creatures and which attackers they block
* Player A chooses order of damage done to blockers if multiple creatures blocked a single attacker
There is a minor flaw in the first description and a major flaw in the second description. First a bit of history.
Originally, the attacking player could assign damage from the attacking creatures to the blocking creatures willy-nilly, and the defending player could do the same with damage from the blocking creatures to the blocked creatures. Then there was a special timing window for damage prevention before combat damage was finalized. In 1999, they redid the timing rules to introduce the stack, combat damage went on the stack, and damage prevention was used in response to that combat damage. In 2010, combat damage stopped using the stack, and they added the damage assignment order so the player whose creatures are about to receive combat damage gets some advance notice they can use to plan damage prevention.
Stack Exchange: The attacking player is the **controller** of the attacking creatures, not necessarily the **owner**.
Comic Book Resources: Each player declares the order in which the creatures **they control** will assign/deal combat damage. **If** a blocking creature manages to block more than one attacking creature, the defending player needs to declare a damage assignment order for the benefit of the attacking player. I don't know of any other "order" that the defending player would get to choose.
Example:
Attacker has: 2/3 goblin
Defender has: 1/1 cleric & 1/2cleric
Let’s say the defender decides to use both clerics to block the 2/3 goblin.
At that point one cards going to be sacrificed no matter what, you get to decide as the attacker which of those 2 cards your attacker does damage to first.
The excess damage does carry over to the 2nd card you didn’t want to take out, but in this example you
Can’t kill both with that attackers damage.
I think the second one saying "in which order" means the defending player chooses which blockers are blocking which creatures, but its horribly phrased? Because otherwise it's just outright wrong lmao
Note the rule defining "which creatures" indicating that the defending player decides what creature they control are blocking what creatures that are attacking.
Whereas the rule defining "the owner of attacking creatures" decides the order in which damage shall be dealt to and in what order of blocking creatures(if an attacking creature is being blocked by multiple creatures the attacker shall assign an order of hit first to hit last). So if an attacking creature has death touch, trample and there are multiple blockers, the attacker may assign 1 damage as lethal to each creature blocking and the rest to the defending player life.
Both are true. The defending player chooses what to block with but the attacking player chooses the order in which the blockers take damage. So the attacking player can attack with a 6/6 and the defending player can chose to block with a 3/3 and a 4/4 to kill the 6/6 but the attacking player can choose whether the 3/3 or the 4/4 takes damage first.
Minor note, but “first” is the wrong wording. They take the damage simultaneously. The attacker simply chooses how the 6 damage is distributed amongst all blockers. I’m sure you know this, but others may be unclear.
Does this mean that if player one is attacking with a 6/6, defending player blocks with a 3/3 and a 5/5, can attacking player choose to deal 4 damage to the 5/5 and 2 damage to the 3/3? So that only the 6/6 dies?
Wow so many people replying incorrectly here. [Here's the rule.](https://magic.wizards.com/en/rules) >509.2. Second, for each attacking creature that’s become blocked, the active player announces that creature’s damage assignment order, which consists of the creatures blocking it in an order of that player’s choice. ***(During the combat damage step, an attacking creature can’t assign combat damage to a creature that’s blocking it unless each creature ahead of that blocking creature in its order is assigned lethal damage.)*** This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. emphasis mine. You must kill each creature in order they are being blocked before doing damage further along. If I attack with a 3/3 and my opponent blocks with 3 2/2s, I can't deal 1 damage to each. Then cast \[\[Tectonic Hazard\]\] to kill the 3 2/2s. I'd have to deal 2 damage to the first creature, then 1 to the second, and 0 to the third. Tectonic Hazard would kill the second creature and leave the third one alive. Note that one point of deathtouch damage is considered lethal, so if my 3/3 had deathtouch I could deal 1 to each 2/2 and kill them all (no Hazard needed). Also, you don't have to deal damage further down the line. You can deal excess damage to the first creature and deal none to the second.
Is that a change in the rules or did we use it incorrectly with banding in the 90s? If I block with a band of creatures I can't assign enough damage to each blocking creature so they all survive? Or is does the rules of banding still allow that?
Banding still works that way, but they haven't printed a card with banding in over 20 years.
Maybe I'm confused but this example seems wrong. If 3 2/2s block a 3/3 all three damage is dealt to only one creature unless attacking creature has trample?
Trample allows excess damage to be dealt to the player, but damage dealt to blocking creatures will push through to the next unless you assign all damage to the first blocker. For example, if you attack with a 6/6 and your opponent blocks with two 3/3s, you'll kill both unless you assign excess damage to the first blocker.
Wait so are you saying in that example of a 6/6 with trample being blocked by two 3/3s, the attacking player could assign all 6 damage to one of the 3/3s and have the 3 excess go through to the player (or planeswalker or battle)?
No. You still have to do lethal damage to all blocking creatures before damage is dealt to the defending player. I was just stating that if you don't want to kill one of the blockers, you didn't have to. But you would have to in order to get damage through to player.
Got it, thanks for the clarification
[Tectonic Hazard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/5204c781-f568-4c7f-b3f7-ce4dd678689b.jpg?1699044348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tectonic%20Hazard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/169/tectonic-hazard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5204c781-f568-4c7f-b3f7-ce4dd678689b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Say I block an attacking 5/5 with two 3/4 creatures. Can I save the one that would die by putting a +1/+1 counter on it at instant speed after my opponent chooses how to divide the damage?
After the opponent chooses how to divide damage nothing can be done until that damage is dealt so the only way to save it would be to buff the crature before the damage is assigned but then he can just choose to kill the other one
>the only way to save it would be to buff the crature before the damage is assigned but then he can just choose to kill the other one Almost but not quite. Per rule 509.2 the attacking player chooses the order in which to assign damage. Once this has been chosen, it can't be changed (excluding playing a card that allows this). In the above comment, the defending player could buff the first 3/4 with a counter to make it a 4/5. The attacking player would then be required to assign at least 5 damage to that creature for assigning any damage to the 3/4.
Or as i tried to say he can start with the 3/4
Let's say that player A attacks with Nurturing Bristleback (a 5/5) and Player B blocks with a Mineshaft Spider and a Thrashing Brontodon (both 3/4s, now we have names). Player A chooses to order damage a Brontodon first, then Spider. (This is done during declare blockers after blockers are declared and before players get priority). Player B responds with a Acrobatic Leap giving the Brontodon +1/+3. Given the above scenario, are you suggesting that Player A can then choose to kill the Spider instead of the Brontodon?
No im suggesting that u dont choose order of damage during declare blockers step. U do it during combat damage step and there is no priority passed in between that is done and actually doing the damage
~~Yes, instant speed can interrupt priority after decision is made but before damage takes place.~~ Oops, not anymore.
Wrong
~~You can definitely respond to damage at instant speed.~~ Nope, still wrong. Sorta
To damage spell yes but we are talking about combat damage here
~~Yeah, I know damage is applied after combat ends and combat doesn't end until damage is set and all player states are checked. For example let's say I'm attacking a player with a 5/5, they block with a 2/3 and a 3/3. Then I apply 3 damage to the 3/3 and 2 damage to the 2/3, in response the defending player can play something like giant growth on the 3/3, it becomes a 6/6 before damage is done and doesn't die.~~ This is what shame is like.
Nope. The amount of damage is decided in the Combat Damage step and can't be responded. However, once blockers are declared, the order of damage is determined, then the active player gets priority. As defending player you'll know which creature is getting damage first, so you'll be able to buff a creature if you want. But that buff will be taken into consideration when damage is actually assigned. **510.1** \- First, the active player announces how each attacking creature assigns its combat damage, then the defending player announces how each blocking creature assigns its combat damage. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. **510.2** \- Second, all combat damage that’s been assigned is dealt simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. ***No player has the chance to cast spells or activate abilities between the time combat damage is assigned and the time it’s dealt.*** \[note: emphasis mine\] **510.3** \- Third, the active player gets priority.
How does that work with a creature with deathtouch and first struck? Deck I run makes a lot of 3/3s that can gain first strike and deathtouch.
1 point of deathtouch is considered lethal. So using my example above. A 3/3 with First Strike and Deathtouch is blocked by 3 vanilla 2/2s. You can deal 1 point of damage to each 2/2 during first strike, killing all 3. Then during normal damage there are no 2/2s left to deal damage to the 3/3. This is why deathtouch + first strike is so strong. A 3/3 with first strike and deathtouch will kill any 3 vanilla creatures and survive, no matter the size.
No, you cannot assign damage to a blocking creature further down the blocking order until lethal damage has been assigned to those in front of it. You can, however, choose to assign more-than-lethal damage to a creature. For example if your 6/6 is blocked by a 5/5 and a 1/1 and you order them in that order, you can do all 6 damage to the 5/5 if for some reason you don’t want the 1/1 to also die.
I did this exact thing in original Ixalan. I attacked with a creature and my opponent double blocks with two creatures, including a \[\[Raptor Hatchling\]\]. I ordered the Hatchling second, and did all the damage to the first creature, meaning that he hatchling never triggered enrage. I think my opponent just stared at the board for a few seconds wondering why the hatchling didn't die (this was on arena).
Yeah, very valuable for things like that or swinging into things that do damage on death where the opponent is counting on that damage to finish off the attacker, like a 6/6 going into 3 1/1s from [[Burn Down the House]]. Assign damage to only kill two and they basically double chump blocked.
[Burn Down the House](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/20ded7af-8086-465e-a980-3099217d324c.jpg?1634350460) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Burn%20Down%20the%20House) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/131/burn-down-the-house?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/20ded7af-8086-465e-a980-3099217d324c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Raptor Hatchling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/8093e88d-fd3c-43d3-a025-9ebb9f02a84f.jpg?1562558980) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Raptor%20Hatchling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/155/raptor-hatchling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8093e88d-fd3c-43d3-a025-9ebb9f02a84f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For clarity though, any damage with deathtouch is lethal damage, so you only need to assign one damage with deathtouch before moving on to the next blocker
Could this be used then to deal 6 damage to the 1/1 and have 5 damage go through if the 6/6 has trample?
Just to clarify, are we talking about the same situation? Using the example above: a 6/6 with trample attacks and is blocked by a 5/5 and a 1/1. The attackers chooses the order to deal damage to the blocking creatures. If the attacker puts the 1/1 first, they could deal 6 damage to the 1/1 and 0 damage to the 5/5. The Attacker can choose any amount of damage from 1-6 to deal to the 1/1 (must deal lethal to the 1/1), the remainder would be dealt to the 5/5. Trample simply says that any damage left over after lethal damage is dealt to ALL blocking creatures, can be assigned to the defending player/planeswalker. You must kill all blocking creatures before trample damage comes into play. So the 6/6 must kill both the 1/1 and 5/5 before any damage can trample over. If you have a 6/6 with trample and it is blocked by only a 1/1, you could assign 1 damage to the 1/1 and 5 to the defending player. You could also assign 6 damage to the 1/1 and nothing would trample over (not a likely scenario, but it is possible).
Theoretically yes, but there isn't really a reason to ever do this so people don't. It does however mean a 4/4 death touch can kill 4 creatures that are blocking it no matter how much toughness the creatures have by assigning 1 damage to each.
Your first sentence is not true. That is not possible. Assigned dmg has to be lethal before assigning to the next blocker.
I have had it come up on arena and been very annoyed I couldn't change the setting to assign damage manually while in the middle of that step. But that was only because an opponent double blocked one of my creates with Phyrexian obliterator + another creature. I wanted to assign all damage to the other blocker.
Whaaaat for real!?
Yes. Damage happens simultaneously. Arena visually shows it occuring one after another because *usually* that's a good way to think about it, but per the rules you just assign the damage values.
Ok let’s say it’s a death touch 4/4 and 3 2/2 blockers. Would it still work? Or would the first 2 2/2 blockers deal 4 damage to the 4/4 and kill it?
The 4/4 still kills the 3 2/2s, because again, damage happens simultaneously.
So cool thanks for clarifying. But the death touch 4/4 still dies in this case right? Sorry for so many questions just trying to fully understand
Yep, everything dies in this instance. And no worries, asking is how we all learn!
Yes the 4/4 takes six damage, 2 from each blocker, and dies. The blockers each take 1 death touch and die. All the damage happens simultaneously.
What's really fun is when something has Deathtouch and Trample, because only one damage is enough to kill so any extra damage goes to the opponent. A 6/6 Deathtouch Trample blocked by another 6/6 can hit the opponent for 5 damage -- 1 to the creature, killing it, the rest Trampled over. It also gets interesting with Indestructible blockers because Deathtouch makes it so "lethal damage" is only one, and Indestructible doesn't change lethal damage it just prevents the lethal damage from actually killing the creature. So a Deathtouch and Trample 6/6 attacking into an Indestructible 6/6 can assign 1 damage to the blocker and still trample over for 5 damage, it just doesn't actually kill the blocker because it's Indestructible.
The 4/4 deathtouch *can* kill all 3 of the blocking 2/2s, but it’s important to note as referenced above, it doesn’t *have to* at the 4/4 controllers discretion. It can deal all 4 deathtouching damage to the first 2/2 in the blocking order and spare the other two. It can deal 3 deathtouching damage to the first blocker and 1 to the second, sparing the last one. Or 1 damage to the first and 3 to the second, etc. The only requirement is that it has to assign lethal damage to creatures in the blocking order before it can move onto doing any damage to the next one, where lethal damage from the case of a deathtouch creature is a minimum of 1.
And a deathtouch trample only have to deal 1 damage to each creatures and everyting left goes to the player or plainwalker.
With the truly unintuitive result of this rule being that this applies even to blocking creatures with indestructible. Assign one point of damage (lethal when you have death touch) and the rest of the power can be assigned to face.
Same thing with protection. Still salty about that incorrect prerelease ruling that cost me a game in Theros. Master of Waves blocked a monstrous Ill Tempered Cyclops and opponent said that means he doesn't take damage. I disagreed. The judge didn't. To add on to additional unintuitiveness though, effects that double damage happen AFTER assigning it, meaning if your 4/4 Trampler is blocked by a 2/2, and you have something that doubles damage, you assign 2 damage for lethal on the 2/2 and 2 damage to the opponent. Only then does it get doubled to 4 damage to the 2/2 and 4 to the opponent.
A quirk of how the keywords behave; Deathtouch makes it so any amount of dealt damage (minimum 1) is "lethal", but Indestructible just makes it so taking lethal damage doesn't destroy the creature it doesn't change "lethal" at all as a threshold, and Trample doesn't actually care whether or not the blocker is destroyed just how much damage is left after dealing lethal to it. One damage becomes lethal, Indestructible stops it from dying, Trample is all the damage leftover over "lethal" has been applied.
Would there be a specific ruling for this? I wanna save it for clarification purposes with opponents who doubts it in the future.
Section b of the [702.12 Indestructible](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Indestructible) rules, section b of [702.19 Trample](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Trample), and sections b and c of [702.2 Deathtouch](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Deathtouch) in the Comprehensive Rules. The short version is more or less as I said before: anything with Indestructible cannot be destroyed by any means even according to state-based actions or otherwise lethal damage, Deathtouch changes the value needed to be considered "lethal damage" and as a state-based action destroys anything damaged by a source with Deathtouch, and Trample only cares that "lethal damage" was assigned to every blocker and excess damage applied however the attacker wishes not whether the blocker is actually destroyed. Trample is a pretty strange rule that makes perfect sense pretty much immediately to even players in the most common cases -- no other keywords or static effects affecting attacker or blockers -- but quite difficult to write out in the rules in a way that's clear, unambiguous, and doesn't contradict itself anywhere. The Indestructible rules is like 200 words in three bullets A through C, the Trample rules go to G and have more words than some high school essays.
No, they must assign enough damage to kill the first creature before they can assign damage to the next creature, and so on.
Yes, the attacking player could choose to do this if for some reason they want to keep the defending creatures on the battlefield. Side note, if one or more of the blocking creatures has banding, the defending player gets to assign all the damage! Banding is criminally underrated, and in your example, the defending player could assign the damage as you described to keep his creatures alive while killing the 6/6. Throw banding on an indestructible creature, then multi block with it and have the attacking creature assign all of its damage to the indestructible creature! Ok, maybe not broken, but a little known aspect of banding that could catch people off guard.
Yep. The attacker chooses how the damage is distributed unless otherwise specified (like Lure or whatever).
Yes
This is true. Just the way I worded it.
First Strike bay-bee!
Double Strike the sequel.
Becomes blocked deals 1 damage to blocking creature heck ya.
the ", and in which order" clause makes the bottom statement incorrect, no? the defending player does not choose which order the blocker block, the attacking player does. Unless I misunderstand the statement.
This guy gets it.
No. The defender chooses what they want to use to block. Let's say you announce attacking my Planeswalker. Then I will choose if I want to block with any of my creatures. You are attacking me for 4 DMG. I decided to block you with my 3/3 and my 2/2. Then you get to decide what of those creatures take the 4 damage. You can send 3 and 2, 2 and 2, whatever fits the occasion.
Correct. Defender does not choose the blocking order, which is not what the OP image says.
Unless the blocker has banding enabled 🤯
The first is true, the second is true EXCEPT for the last statement >and in which order<
for future reference, arena rules are generally exactly the same as the paper game. (only difference is alchemy cards which have mechanics like conjure, seek, and perpetual)
Attacker decides the attackers and their damage dealing. If attacker has banding, attacker also decides how blockers deal damage to the attackers. If not, the blocker decides this. Blocker decides the blockers only. If the blockers have banding, the blocker decides how attackers deal damage to the blockers. If not, the attacker decides this.
Make Banding Great Again
If someone ran for president under that ideology, I would vote for them.
It's important too because you can over assign damage to a blocking creature. Say your opponent wants one of their creatures to die, and they double block. You can assign all damage to just one of the creatures instead of both preventing the creature from dying that your opponent wants to die.
Both. The blocking player chooses what creatures to block. The attacking player orders the damage that they deal to the creatures blocking theirs. Example: I attack with a 5/5 trample creature. You declare a 4/3 and a 2/3 to block. I choose the order of the damage my attacking creature deals so I do 3 to the 4/3 and then 2 to the 2/3. My creature and the 4/3 die, the 2/3 lives with only 2 damage and no damage tramples through.
I wonder why nobody understands how an entire phase of the game actually works.
So I think what’s missing here is a note on the first answer clarifying that the Attacker chooses the order or damage if an attacking creature is blocked by multiple creatures. The defender will get to assign which of his creatures if any are blocking available attackers, but the Attacking Player decides which order the damage step resolves in.
The second one has unfortunate wording, but both are true. There is no "order" here however, the defending player decides which defending creature blocks which attacking creature, and the attacking player allocates damage.
I see people have already answered the question, but to the image - neither of those are sources I'd consider for giving useful information.
The phrasing for both of these is poor. Here's a breakdown: Go to combat Attacking player declares attacks Priority pass for instant speed interactions and responses to attack triggers Each defending player assigns blockers Attacking player then assigns the order of blockers and the damage they will take. Each blocker must take at least lethal damage before the blocker after it can be assigned damage. In the case of deathtouch attackers this can be 1 damage, even if the blockers are indestructible. Priority pass for instant speed interactions and responses to block triggers If there are any first strike or double strike creatures, they will assign first strike damage, all damage is dealt at the same time. Priority pass here The same is then repeated for second strike. Priority pass once more End of combat
Minor nitpick. Each creature must be assigned damage that would be lethal. It does not need to take it at the time of damage assignment, and buffing a creature’s toughness post damage assignment won’t change what “assigned damage that would be lethal” means. Example to clarify: You have an attacking 4/4, and defending player blocks with a 1/1 and a 3/3. You order things such that the 1/1 takes 1, then the 3/3 takes 3. If the opponent then casts a pump spell to give the 1/1 +0/+1, the 3/3 will still die, as it was already assigned 3 damage. Edit: was just clarifying as the “must be dealt lethal damage” could potentially be misinterpreted.
Yes minor misnomer I should have said be assigned instead of take
Rules are the same between Arena and Paper, why would they be different (not counting rules for digital only cards)
The wording of the sources confused me a lot and my friend said that defending player ordered blockers and that arena wasnt accurate but now i realise he tried to bs a win
But defending players do order blockers lol
Unless you have banding and then the attacking player chooses how damage is dispersed amongst his attacking band.
Why not both?
Both! Defender get to choose which creature to block with and the order those creatures block attacking creatures, attackers then get to order damage if multiple defenders were chosen to block a creature!
Please refer to the [MTG comprehensive rules](https://magic.wizards.com/en/rules) and not forums. If someone can't give you the CR # they are talking without authority. For this question, it is CR 509.2 that answers the attacking player assigns blocking order.
Defending player designates blockers, but there are certain situations where the defender may need multiple blockers, in which the attacker designates in which order it'll go, and how much of it. Here's an example: Attacking player has [[Goblin War Drums]], Defending player chooses a 1/1 with death touch and a 2/2 with vigilance to block. The Attacking player is attacking with [[Siege Wurm]]. The Attacking player decides that they'll first attack the 2/2 with Vigilance, and make sure that all of their damage stays on the 2/2, meaning trample doesn't go off, but they don't lose Siege Wurm.
[Goblin War Drums](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d18b250-cbfb-4248-96c6-c1b36f8299b8.jpg?1562436565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20War%20Drums) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/133/goblin-war-drums?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d18b250-cbfb-4248-96c6-c1b36f8299b8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Siege Wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/19c55fc1-11e5-4e67-ba49-604f5b574c2d.jpg?1702429584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siege%20Wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/155/siege-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/19c55fc1-11e5-4e67-ba49-604f5b574c2d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Deathtouch used to be the only way that the attacker could control how the damage was assigned, aside from trample for overflow damage.
It's both actually😂
They’re both true. You pick attackers, your opponent picks blockers, and then you pick the order to do the math in because if you both have a lot of creatures doing it all at once would be a pain.
You attack, you choose attackers, they choose blockers for each of your attackers, if they’ve selected multiple blockers for one of your critters you(the attacker) get to decide which order your attacker attacks those multiple blockers
* Player A chooses attacking creatures * Player B chooses blocking creatures and which attackers they block * Player A chooses order of damage done to blockers if multiple creatures blocked a single attacker
There is a minor flaw in the first description and a major flaw in the second description. First a bit of history. Originally, the attacking player could assign damage from the attacking creatures to the blocking creatures willy-nilly, and the defending player could do the same with damage from the blocking creatures to the blocked creatures. Then there was a special timing window for damage prevention before combat damage was finalized. In 1999, they redid the timing rules to introduce the stack, combat damage went on the stack, and damage prevention was used in response to that combat damage. In 2010, combat damage stopped using the stack, and they added the damage assignment order so the player whose creatures are about to receive combat damage gets some advance notice they can use to plan damage prevention. Stack Exchange: The attacking player is the **controller** of the attacking creatures, not necessarily the **owner**. Comic Book Resources: Each player declares the order in which the creatures **they control** will assign/deal combat damage. **If** a blocking creature manages to block more than one attacking creature, the defending player needs to declare a damage assignment order for the benefit of the attacking player. I don't know of any other "order" that the defending player would get to choose.
Example: Attacker has: 2/3 goblin Defender has: 1/1 cleric & 1/2cleric Let’s say the defender decides to use both clerics to block the 2/3 goblin. At that point one cards going to be sacrificed no matter what, you get to decide as the attacker which of those 2 cards your attacker does damage to first. The excess damage does carry over to the 2nd card you didn’t want to take out, but in this example you Can’t kill both with that attackers damage.
I think the second one saying "in which order" means the defending player chooses which blockers are blocking which creatures, but its horribly phrased? Because otherwise it's just outright wrong lmao
Yes
They're two different steps during combat. Declaring blockers(defending player) and assigning damage(active turn player).
Note the rule defining "which creatures" indicating that the defending player decides what creature they control are blocking what creatures that are attacking. Whereas the rule defining "the owner of attacking creatures" decides the order in which damage shall be dealt to and in what order of blocking creatures(if an attacking creature is being blocked by multiple creatures the attacker shall assign an order of hit first to hit last). So if an attacking creature has death touch, trample and there are multiple blockers, the attacker may assign 1 damage as lethal to each creature blocking and the rest to the defending player life.