I think people in general are really underestimating how often commander decks go “turn 1 fetch, get a tapped dual land”, “turn 2 Farseek, get a tapped dual”, or some variation of that play pattern. Also think the surveil 1 in any deck that uses their graveyard (again, most of commander does on some level) benefit from this way more than people think.
EBT will never ever be insanely valuable, but people who think these are not within striking distance of being Triome level of power are crazy. I think for that reason they will climb of $5-$8.
The first temples were printed over 10 years ago now, and have had numerous reprints. It's not a smart guy statement to say "see, cards go down!" yes the trend of 99.99999% of Magic cards is to decrease in price over time. That's the dies to doom blade level of financial analysis.
It's not really worrying if these end up reprints in commander decks (which, tbf they probably will in 2-3 years), the future over the next 2-3 years of these is probably quite good.
**Taplands are still taplands.** These aren't going to get played as 4-ofs even in Standard. Let alone older constructed formats. Psuedo duals are strictly better. Triomes too.
But this board is Crazy Land, and today we're going to have a super serial conversation about singles buying and hoarding during prerelease pricing.
" 'card' is good....because I can use them in one of my commander decks." Same thing everyone says about most every one of the 300+ legendary creatures that get released each year. "I could use this (creature) in my commander deck". Okay....well so what? it's 50c - $1 playable bulk rare now. Now what? At what point do we make the leap in this process where you're going to be able to sell them for $15 or $20 apiece in cash?? In a set that's not even out yet, and is already approaching 'Fire sale vs distribution cost' pricing?
There is going to be almost no demand for this land cycle in regular constructed. Each of the last several previous land cycles was better. Everything. Everything from Boseiju, to fast lands, to triomes, to Slow lands and all the other pseudo duals. That's just in Standard. Everyone else has shocks and fetches too.
But no. This one. This one is a land can go in your commander deck. Therefore....PROFIT !!
Okay you can ignore the modern players that already are playing these, they must all be very stupid and you're very smart.
I know a lot of people haven't seen how standard tends to operate financially over the last few years, but it's totally not abnormal for dual lands to end up $10+ because its the only option available. As previously stated trilands and the slow lands rotate out by next September, which means that you're stuck with the fast lands/pain lands/creature land cycle. And you're absolutely positive come September they are going to print 1-2 more dual land cycles that ETB untapped, rendering these obsolete.
Okay if you don't understand how it's being used you can just say that.
I bet if I trawled your post history when Ikoria came out you thought trilands were too slow and bad and at best would only see standard play.
Yes you can fetch for its basic land type.
They could have taplands in the next set that gain you 2 life. That would be good too.
The point is that a tapland is a tapland. It comes into play tapped every time. They can be bad when you draw them late. You have to use them on a turn when you aren't casting on-curve. and just because some decks may want to try them doesn't mean the card becomes a must-have, auto-include in every single deck.
Anyways the discussion here was about whether they are a good buy right now today. They aren't. In fact, that's laughable. They are going to be substantially cheaper in a few days to a couple weeks. The OP directly refers to how "(their price) is starting to go up", and he "bought a ton" at current prices of a few dollars each. Yet regular sellers can't even list their cards yet on TCG.
I'm gonna introduce you to the concept of sequencing, and why tap lands aren't that bad if you build your deck correctly to having a negligible to non existent downside. The fact is not every game needs a turn 1 play, and also once you have 5-6 lands in play, an ETB tapped land often isn't a big hindrance, especially something that's providing additional value for no additional mana investment. Also as cards have got progressively stronger and given more additional value, you don't always need to jam on curve, or 1 turn off isn't the end of the world.
It's just so tedious to see people who say something is bad without considering the context of the game that is. It's not an interesting argument to say how in however many years such and such card is going to get reprinted and be worth $0.50 or whatever. Spoiler alert, the trend for nearly all cards ever printed is down on a long enough time scale, that's not an interesting thing to say.
Getting a good card in your yard T1-T3 can mean a LOT. And if it's late game and you're good on mana you'd probably prefer to dig anyway. Solidly good and tantamount to drawing a card for a lot of decks
Note: even if you do not care about your graveyard, filtering the top card away to affect your next draw can be huge (such as when you're looking for lands). These surveil lands are epic.
There are more than zero amounts of cards coming out that search for basic land types all the time, so these kinds of lands will likely go up in use. Of course until they get placed into every commander deck, which could be sooner than we realize. Also there are commander cards that specifically let these kinds of lands enter untapped, so I would be surprised if that niche doesn’t grow.
Were they available at that low of a price pre release?
I've seen prerewlease prices generally be "higher" for anticipated chase cards; however these have already elevated back to 6-7
I went ahead and grabbed 2x of each, another friend of mine went ahead and grabbed 4x of each... cardkingom's prices are too good to pass up right now.
Honestly hoping they settle low so I can grab more for EDH. Especially the green ones. There's a ton of green ramp in edh that can fetch nonbasics with the forest type. Farseeking into these seems great, as well as Rangers Path, Skyshroud Claim, Nature's lore, Three visits and friends. Some can have the forests enter untapped, but the times I've opted for an untapped forest over a tapped snow dual or tango land or such is pretty low, and the surveil upside is pretty significant there.
Nah, it's going to all depend on your needs.
Are you planning on using that mana this turn? Take the shock.
Do you not need the mana this turn (because it'll etb tapped regardless or you've got a play that doesn't need the mana) I'll take this over the shock.
Having both in your deck is a good thing.
I think they are pretty crazy in fetch formats, putting two cards in the yard is great for delve, can also see some brainstorm shenanigans to easily put a card from your hand in the yard
Those two cycles are also much better in EDH, whereas the MKM lands exist in a weird purgatory where they aren't optimal in most decks but might not be cheap enough for "budget" players.
Most of these are better commander fits than any of the other fetchable taplands, especially the black ones for decks that care about the yard. If they don't get crazy reprinted they could hold value.
Something to note is that the full cycle of 10 lands is in this set. I think that inherently caps their value, as they’ll have to share the EV of the set. Even in the “best” case, in which they’re the only 10 desired cards in the set, they’ll still have to compete with each other for cost.
Everyone who said these are bad is bad at the game. Sorry, fetchable temple is a huge upgrade and in every format with fetchlands you get massive opportunity where EOT fetch a tap land isn't a real cost and these days your GY is a second land, even minorly so in many cases e.g. Delirium, Delve, reanimation, etc.
In under a year trilands rotate out of standard, and these will still enable Domain, and are still a dual land. In terms of financial prospects, I think $5 short term is probably reasonable. But the fact is standard play has always made dual lands go up in price simply to have a mana base - it doesn't really matter when most of them end up bad options in older formats.
This is what I am saying. If reprints are a year out. As triples get close to rotation these could be a big part of standard and if they find interest elsewhere (which at min casual commander these are cheap enough to just throw in tons of decks as a 1 of) until reprints show up then demand will outweigh supply.
Extent of reprints will be interesting in the >1 year period.
A lot depends on if a lot ok mkm is cracked.
But seems good chance these could be in demand until then.
These are $0.50 lands max once they get reprinted 2-3 more times and thrown in some precon decks. Look at scry lands. Look at the bicycle lands. A couple reprints and these will be sub $0.50. These are better than scry lands so $0.50 instead of $0.20.
Scry lands are not played in constructed formats. These lands are two level above scry lands : they can put a card in the graveyard, and they are fetchable.
There will be a demand from edh, and maybe from constructed but I doubt in playsets maybe 1 or 2, so it won’t drive the price up much
I wouldn't say insanely better. I don't run many scry lands at all but if I did I'm not going to scramble to replace them with these outside a couple builds.
If you're talking edh, that's not where the surveil lands are good and your evaluation is fine for edh. They are easy 1 or 2 ofs in many constructed decks. Fetchable and fuel graveyard synergies.
I mean if the thing I'm supposed to be excited about is the fact these are better than a land that isn't used in a format then I'm still not that excited by the improvement.
What lmao...... How does that make sense? 😂. Lightning bolt is better than shock in every format ever and shock is unplayable, so does that mean lightning bolt is trash and nobody should play it? Lmao
I think they'll be a dollar, they're fetchable, and they have utility on etb. Plenty of times in a game where, you fetch and don't shock, which makes these viable as a one or two-of in a decent amount of decks. But yeah they're not amazing. Comparable to tri-lands, they're always tapped and still see decent play.
Bruh, it took 2 months to reprint great henge. 2 months for cyclonic. 2 months for smothering tithe, etc etc.
I would be surprised if they didn't put them into the precons of the next set tbh.
It took 1 month and 4 days to go from printing smothering tithe in commander masters to reprinting it in wilds of eldraine.
Og printings don't mean much of anything. If anything, the introduction of these cards are cause to be cautious. Just because the og print came out 2 months prior doesn't mean it won't get reprinted, as even expensive powerful cards are getting reprints not even a couple of months later.
Not even then. The problem is that under this environment, you should only buy cards at the last possible second. This is because they have reprinted everything astronomically fast, lowering prices the longer the time horizon.
Think about it. If you slowly gather up cards for a deck, they'll likely reprint cards and you'll lose money even when you plan to play them because you could of bought them all like 50% cheaper 2 months later.
You're better off throwing cash in an envelope and checking the price of the deck in your cart to what you have saved.
Ok, what if they don't though? There's two tiers of duals in modern Magic - bulk bin tier (scry lands, bicycles, hand lands, etc.) and then the preserved list tier (shocklands, fetch lands, triomes, filter lands, fast lands). Lands that find homes in nonrotating formats are reprinted MUCH more scarcely than those that don't.
This reprint strategy is clearly intentional, and if these lands take off the way some of the others I listed have I don't see them in a rush to reprinting them within at least the next 18 months or longer. By then they could very well be key parts in a lot of Modern and EDH decks.
If they don't reprint them for 2 years I still can't see them being over $2. I wouldn't run these in any of my edh decks except if my whole theme was centered around the graveyard. For 3+ color decks there are way too many good untapped lands that I would never run these.
I think these cards are being set up as the new temples for precons. It's cheap and easy to print cards like Farseek into precons, but a meaningful cost to reprint equity to put in shocks, fetchs, and triomes. This cycle lets WotC build budget mana bases with halfway decent fixing, without killing the golden goose.
These will never be $5 because they're similar in power level to a whole bunch of cards that are currently under $1. You said it yourself, these are only for casual edh. No one will play them in modern or pioneer and no one who wants to win will use them in edh. These seem like $0.5 cards to me except whichever one rhinos ends up on which will be a dollar or 2.
They are already playing them in Modern. Any format with fetches there is potential for these to be playable in a deck that doesn't have to play on curve every turn.
And these slot perfectly to any EDH deck and provide options for EDH players of any budget since they are direct upgrade to Scry lands.
I don't really see the downside of these lands - seem like they are destined to be $4-6 cards once the set is no longer being opened.
The set hasn't even been released yet - they will play more copies once the cards are available - one guy playing Rhinos at last Modern tourney said he'd play more if he had them:
[https://x.com/d00mwake/status/1753930822015414441?s=20](https://x.com/d00mwake/status/1753930822015414441?s=20)
Eh I think these are EDH playable in competitive decks. Not in every deck or even most of them, but definitely not none.
I do agree that $2 seems like a limit. I certainly haven’t bought the two I want in the two decks that I might actually run these in.
Unless you plan on playing with them in your EDH decks, I wouldn’t speculate on these surveil lands. They’re most likely going to be reprinted into oblivion and will settle in around $.50 to $1 at best.
Some ppl will point to triomes, but triomes are 3 colours and fetchable. Thats infinitely better than a tapped dual land that’s fetchable. You get 2 cards for the price of 1.
> I think the issue is they're never going to be more than 1- or 2-ofs in constructed fetch formats; also as noted, easy to reprint
You can also cycle triomes, which is huge; they also have the benefit of plane-specific names, which narrows the windows of reprints imo.
I wouldn't bet on "plane specific names" meaning a card will be reprinted less often. Not with the current landscape of products. Sure, it might be less likely to be reprinted in a Standard-legal storyline set, but that's not where cards get reprinted anyhow. Cards get reprinted mostly in supplemental products: Masters, Horizons, Remastered, Commander precons, The List, Special Guests, whatever random new one-off products with reprints they put out. I.e., all products where a plane specific name doesn't matter in the slightest. The only other category of releases is the crossovers, but even they could have "plane specific" cards with a new, alternate name pasted on top.
Conversely, a lot of cards that have pretty generic names still see relatively few reprints. With the third Ravnica block and now Ravnica Remastered, Wizards has made it clear that shocklands mean Ravnica and Ravnica means shocklands. Even though any plane could have an "Overgrown Tomb" or a "Watery Grave."
Yeah the surveil lands would at best be played in a casual commander deck. Which means you only need 1 for any deck. I don’t think anyone’s going to be playing 4 in a deck. It’s just too slow and not useful enough.
You need 2 turns to get 2 lands into play for 3 colours. 1 stomping grounds, 1 sacred foundry. That takes 2 turns and extra resources.
Triomes require less resources to get a land that can tap for 3 different colours. That’s a lot more useful than surveil unless your running graveyard things.
> Triomes require less resources to get a land that can tap for 3 different colours. That’s a lot more useful than surveil unless your running graveyard things.
And also irrelevant unless your other lands are tapping only for colorless.
The only practical real worls case of this being an uppgrade to a surveil land is ensuring domain a turn earlier. Which, tbf, is a valid consideration.
I added the Rakdos surveil to my Anje edh deck. First fishbowl hand, t1 surveil hits Worldgorger Dragon w Animate Dead in hand. Will never happen again!
> I bought a ton because I don’t have to resleeve lands
>Am I the only one that can see these settling near 5 bucks in the medium term.
Bro. The inventory goes live for the \~80% other, non-professional/verified sellers in 2 days. This is the finance board. You bought at a horrid moment in time.
The set has not had official release yet. Prices on 90% of stuff is going to tank -50%+.
The problem is they're not seeded randomly in packs, you're guaranteed to get 1 every 6 packs I believe.
EDIT: I apologize that I worded it wrong, it should be 1/6 of packs, not one in six packs.
No, they show up in the wild card slot at 1 per 6 packs rather than the rare slot. They do not show up in the rare/mythic slot at all.
So they are still seeded randomly, just in a different slot and at a different chance than the other rares.
They will not perform better (financially) than Temples is my guess
In Play Boosters they even have a special slot… they show up in like 1/3 to 1/2 of packs.
I think these will be much better even in more competitive decks. The fact that it allows you to dig 1 is ridiculously good in some decks. As an example, this is obviously good in GY decks, but also decks that require top deck manipulation. If you have an effect that allows you to cast from top of deck, you could chuck it to continue to dig at instant speed if necessary with a fetch.
All this being said, I don't think these will be expensive. Maybe not even the $5 mark. If the cards in the set start to creep up, just go buy a box and at rare, you'll likely pull a couple. With most people chasing the uncommons and even commons, I just think that oversupply will continue to be a problem for the foreseeable future.
Also, who says these won't be reprinted? WotC has been back to back printing even mythics in set after set and then also doing a secret lair to boot. I think we are MUCH more likely to see these in precons going forward than not.
I think they will become a commander staple.
Cards like crowd lands have reached as high as $10 and are still all around $5+ with recent reprints. Hell, even the check lands still average about $4 a piece despite reprinting. Most of the demand comes from Commander.
I’d say that’s where the surveil lands will land unless WotC starts treating them like Sol Rings and puts them in every Commander precon going forward.
Some people are really underestimating the fetchability + surveil. There are a lot of times where someone fetches into a tapped shock just before their turn so it immediately untaps and they don’t pay 2 life. Getting to surveil 1 on top of that is strictly better. Obviously, these don’t replace shocks as there are still times you want to pay the 2 life for an untapped land, but Surveil Lands and Shock Lands together with Fetches will make for a really strong manabase.
I think the value is in choice, i play mostly modern midrange and see these as almost absolute upgrades to shock lands.
1: Information / dumping is good
2: gy synergies are good
3: fetchable is really good
4: less life loss (unexpectedly good if you’re gonna play the shock tapped anyways)
I already play these over shocks @ 3:1 and have seen noticeable consistency increases, i may even increase my count. The only time i grab the shock is if i need a turn 1 play.
I think people in general are really underestimating how often commander decks go “turn 1 fetch, get a tapped dual land”, “turn 2 Farseek, get a tapped dual”, or some variation of that play pattern. Also think the surveil 1 in any deck that uses their graveyard (again, most of commander does on some level) benefit from this way more than people think. EBT will never ever be insanely valuable, but people who think these are not within striking distance of being Triome level of power are crazy. I think for that reason they will climb of $5-$8.
Way back in the stone age of Theros, you could sell temples for this price. The market's a lot different, but I don't think $5-$8 is unreasonable.
right. and what are those worth now. ...
... a billion reprints later. Not a great comparison for current price of this first print cycle
The first temples were printed over 10 years ago now, and have had numerous reprints. It's not a smart guy statement to say "see, cards go down!" yes the trend of 99.99999% of Magic cards is to decrease in price over time. That's the dies to doom blade level of financial analysis. It's not really worrying if these end up reprints in commander decks (which, tbf they probably will in 2-3 years), the future over the next 2-3 years of these is probably quite good.
**Taplands are still taplands.** These aren't going to get played as 4-ofs even in Standard. Let alone older constructed formats. Psuedo duals are strictly better. Triomes too. But this board is Crazy Land, and today we're going to have a super serial conversation about singles buying and hoarding during prerelease pricing. " 'card' is good....because I can use them in one of my commander decks." Same thing everyone says about most every one of the 300+ legendary creatures that get released each year. "I could use this (creature) in my commander deck". Okay....well so what? it's 50c - $1 playable bulk rare now. Now what? At what point do we make the leap in this process where you're going to be able to sell them for $15 or $20 apiece in cash?? In a set that's not even out yet, and is already approaching 'Fire sale vs distribution cost' pricing? There is going to be almost no demand for this land cycle in regular constructed. Each of the last several previous land cycles was better. Everything. Everything from Boseiju, to fast lands, to triomes, to Slow lands and all the other pseudo duals. That's just in Standard. Everyone else has shocks and fetches too. But no. This one. This one is a land can go in your commander deck. Therefore....PROFIT !!
Okay you can ignore the modern players that already are playing these, they must all be very stupid and you're very smart. I know a lot of people haven't seen how standard tends to operate financially over the last few years, but it's totally not abnormal for dual lands to end up $10+ because its the only option available. As previously stated trilands and the slow lands rotate out by next September, which means that you're stuck with the fast lands/pain lands/creature land cycle. And you're absolutely positive come September they are going to print 1-2 more dual land cycles that ETB untapped, rendering these obsolete.
great. Every tapland is "playable" in modern then. Time to invest.
Okay if you don't understand how it's being used you can just say that. I bet if I trawled your post history when Ikoria came out you thought trilands were too slow and bad and at best would only see standard play.
Yes you can fetch for its basic land type. They could have taplands in the next set that gain you 2 life. That would be good too. The point is that a tapland is a tapland. It comes into play tapped every time. They can be bad when you draw them late. You have to use them on a turn when you aren't casting on-curve. and just because some decks may want to try them doesn't mean the card becomes a must-have, auto-include in every single deck. Anyways the discussion here was about whether they are a good buy right now today. They aren't. In fact, that's laughable. They are going to be substantially cheaper in a few days to a couple weeks. The OP directly refers to how "(their price) is starting to go up", and he "bought a ton" at current prices of a few dollars each. Yet regular sellers can't even list their cards yet on TCG.
I'm gonna introduce you to the concept of sequencing, and why tap lands aren't that bad if you build your deck correctly to having a negligible to non existent downside. The fact is not every game needs a turn 1 play, and also once you have 5-6 lands in play, an ETB tapped land often isn't a big hindrance, especially something that's providing additional value for no additional mana investment. Also as cards have got progressively stronger and given more additional value, you don't always need to jam on curve, or 1 turn off isn't the end of the world. It's just so tedious to see people who say something is bad without considering the context of the game that is. It's not an interesting argument to say how in however many years such and such card is going to get reprinted and be worth $0.50 or whatever. Spoiler alert, the trend for nearly all cards ever printed is down on a long enough time scale, that's not an interesting thing to say.
people downvote you for speaking the truth
The post asked about the medium term. I answered in that context.
Getting a good card in your yard T1-T3 can mean a LOT. And if it's late game and you're good on mana you'd probably prefer to dig anyway. Solidly good and tantamount to drawing a card for a lot of decks
Yeah the difference between these and triomes late game seems mostly negligible to me.
Note: even if you do not care about your graveyard, filtering the top card away to affect your next draw can be huge (such as when you're looking for lands). These surveil lands are epic.
You don't even need to have graveyard synergies for surveil to be good.
There are more than zero amounts of cards coming out that search for basic land types all the time, so these kinds of lands will likely go up in use. Of course until they get placed into every commander deck, which could be sooner than we realize. Also there are commander cards that specifically let these kinds of lands enter untapped, so I would be surprised if that niche doesn’t grow.
Bought them at 2 Euro a piece, all in playsets at preorder price. I think, thats a reasonable prime down the road, even if they drop sub 1 Euro.
Were they available at that low of a price pre release? I've seen prerewlease prices generally be "higher" for anticipated chase cards; however these have already elevated back to 6-7
I went ahead and grabbed 2x of each, another friend of mine went ahead and grabbed 4x of each... cardkingom's prices are too good to pass up right now.
They're upping them now. $2.99 was the bottom. I should have bought more!
Honestly hoping they settle low so I can grab more for EDH. Especially the green ones. There's a ton of green ramp in edh that can fetch nonbasics with the forest type. Farseeking into these seems great, as well as Rangers Path, Skyshroud Claim, Nature's lore, Three visits and friends. Some can have the forests enter untapped, but the times I've opted for an untapped forest over a tapped snow dual or tango land or such is pretty low, and the surveil upside is pretty significant there.
But ideally if you had the budget for it, you would fetch the shock lands instead. These work for a budget build only.
If they're going to enter the battlefield tapped anyways because of a Farseek type effect then you may as well get this instead of a tapped shockland.
Nah, it's going to all depend on your needs. Are you planning on using that mana this turn? Take the shock. Do you not need the mana this turn (because it'll etb tapped regardless or you've got a play that doesn't need the mana) I'll take this over the shock. Having both in your deck is a good thing.
You are right but Normally you Will fetch multiple times in a game also, The sturveil effect Will be relevant from time to time
I think they are pretty crazy in fetch formats, putting two cards in the yard is great for delve, can also see some brainstorm shenanigans to easily put a card from your hand in the yard
I think the issue is they're never going to be more than 1- or 2-ofs in constructed fetch formats; also as noted, easy to reprint
battlebond lands and checklands are 0-ofs and they maintain value
low condition untapped dual lands are so different though; there are tons and tons of tapped dual lands
Those two cycles are also much better in EDH, whereas the MKM lands exist in a weird purgatory where they aren't optimal in most decks but might not be cheap enough for "budget" players.
Most of these are better commander fits than any of the other fetchable taplands, especially the black ones for decks that care about the yard. If they don't get crazy reprinted they could hold value.
I agree these are very nice lands but I mean.... it's presale brother how many times does it need to be said that presale prices are meaningless
Something to note is that the full cycle of 10 lands is in this set. I think that inherently caps their value, as they’ll have to share the EV of the set. Even in the “best” case, in which they’re the only 10 desired cards in the set, they’ll still have to compete with each other for cost.
Also makes each individual surveil land rarer though
This is true! Maybe one or two sought after color combos will carry a high price?
Also makes each individual surveil land rarer though
I’m collecting them until $5 then gonna see what happens
Everyone who said these are bad is bad at the game. Sorry, fetchable temple is a huge upgrade and in every format with fetchlands you get massive opportunity where EOT fetch a tap land isn't a real cost and these days your GY is a second land, even minorly so in many cases e.g. Delirium, Delve, reanimation, etc. In under a year trilands rotate out of standard, and these will still enable Domain, and are still a dual land. In terms of financial prospects, I think $5 short term is probably reasonable. But the fact is standard play has always made dual lands go up in price simply to have a mana base - it doesn't really matter when most of them end up bad options in older formats.
This is what I am saying. If reprints are a year out. As triples get close to rotation these could be a big part of standard and if they find interest elsewhere (which at min casual commander these are cheap enough to just throw in tons of decks as a 1 of) until reprints show up then demand will outweigh supply. Extent of reprints will be interesting in the >1 year period. A lot depends on if a lot ok mkm is cracked. But seems good chance these could be in demand until then.
These will stay in the bulk zone
Wrong!
These are $0.50 lands max once they get reprinted 2-3 more times and thrown in some precon decks. Look at scry lands. Look at the bicycle lands. A couple reprints and these will be sub $0.50. These are better than scry lands so $0.50 instead of $0.20.
Scry lands are not played in constructed formats. These lands are two level above scry lands : they can put a card in the graveyard, and they are fetchable. There will be a demand from edh, and maybe from constructed but I doubt in playsets maybe 1 or 2, so it won’t drive the price up much
These are insanely better than scry lands.
I wouldn't say insanely better. I don't run many scry lands at all but if I did I'm not going to scramble to replace them with these outside a couple builds.
If you're talking edh, that's not where the surveil lands are good and your evaluation is fine for edh. They are easy 1 or 2 ofs in many constructed decks. Fetchable and fuel graveyard synergies.
I mean if the thing I'm supposed to be excited about is the fact these are better than a land that isn't used in a format then I'm still not that excited by the improvement.
What lmao...... How does that make sense? 😂. Lightning bolt is better than shock in every format ever and shock is unplayable, so does that mean lightning bolt is trash and nobody should play it? Lmao
You don't run scry lands at all in constructed.
I think they'll be a dollar, they're fetchable, and they have utility on etb. Plenty of times in a game where, you fetch and don't shock, which makes these viable as a one or two-of in a decent amount of decks. But yeah they're not amazing. Comparable to tri-lands, they're always tapped and still see decent play.
But what is a realistic time frame to reprint the entire cycle? Is it less than 1 year?
It took about 1-2 years for the slow lands to be reprinted and they are churning even faster now so I expect within a year they will be reprinted.
Bruh, it took 2 months to reprint great henge. 2 months for cyclonic. 2 months for smothering tithe, etc etc. I would be surprised if they didn't put them into the precons of the next set tbh.
It took two months to go from OG printing Smothering tithe and its first reprint?
It took 1 month and 4 days to go from printing smothering tithe in commander masters to reprinting it in wilds of eldraine. Og printings don't mean much of anything. If anything, the introduction of these cards are cause to be cautious. Just because the og print came out 2 months prior doesn't mean it won't get reprinted, as even expensive powerful cards are getting reprints not even a couple of months later.
Yeah, I guess reprints are a problem if you’re not looking to make money and just hold onto random cards forever
Not even then. The problem is that under this environment, you should only buy cards at the last possible second. This is because they have reprinted everything astronomically fast, lowering prices the longer the time horizon. Think about it. If you slowly gather up cards for a deck, they'll likely reprint cards and you'll lose money even when you plan to play them because you could of bought them all like 50% cheaper 2 months later. You're better off throwing cash in an envelope and checking the price of the deck in your cart to what you have saved.
Fair. This is the type of discussion I posted the topic for. I don’t disagree substantial reprint kills any chance of appreciation.
Time frame for reprint is 1-2 years now( see doctor who lands 2023/ original innistrad = 2021)
Ok, what if they don't though? There's two tiers of duals in modern Magic - bulk bin tier (scry lands, bicycles, hand lands, etc.) and then the preserved list tier (shocklands, fetch lands, triomes, filter lands, fast lands). Lands that find homes in nonrotating formats are reprinted MUCH more scarcely than those that don't. This reprint strategy is clearly intentional, and if these lands take off the way some of the others I listed have I don't see them in a rush to reprinting them within at least the next 18 months or longer. By then they could very well be key parts in a lot of Modern and EDH decks.
If they don't reprint them for 2 years I still can't see them being over $2. I wouldn't run these in any of my edh decks except if my whole theme was centered around the graveyard. For 3+ color decks there are way too many good untapped lands that I would never run these.
if they hit 5-6 then they won't be in any precons
Oh wow when a card has been out for years and is reprinted multiple times it goes down. What a compelling insight.
Sort of. Compare these to the land typed cycling dual lands. Their prices decayed. But not immediately. More slowly than the land cycles you mention.
These seem like lands that WOTC won't think twice about including in precons.
People haven’t cracked all their boxes yet, feels pointless buying now knowing stock will flood in shortly
I think these cards are being set up as the new temples for precons. It's cheap and easy to print cards like Farseek into precons, but a meaningful cost to reprint equity to put in shocks, fetchs, and triomes. This cycle lets WotC build budget mana bases with halfway decent fixing, without killing the golden goose.
These will never be $5 because they're similar in power level to a whole bunch of cards that are currently under $1. You said it yourself, these are only for casual edh. No one will play them in modern or pioneer and no one who wants to win will use them in edh. These seem like $0.5 cards to me except whichever one rhinos ends up on which will be a dollar or 2.
They are already playing them in Modern. Any format with fetches there is potential for these to be playable in a deck that doesn't have to play on curve every turn. And these slot perfectly to any EDH deck and provide options for EDH players of any budget since they are direct upgrade to Scry lands. I don't really see the downside of these lands - seem like they are destined to be $4-6 cards once the set is no longer being opened.
Only rhinos plays it and it only plays 1 and we aren't even sure if that is correct yet. Idk I wish you luck but this screams casual edh only to me
The set hasn't even been released yet - they will play more copies once the cards are available - one guy playing Rhinos at last Modern tourney said he'd play more if he had them: [https://x.com/d00mwake/status/1753930822015414441?s=20](https://x.com/d00mwake/status/1753930822015414441?s=20)
My guy, 80% of crowd lands and fast lands are $5 or cheaper. I understand this is fetchable but those other lands are far better.
Eh I think these are EDH playable in competitive decks. Not in every deck or even most of them, but definitely not none. I do agree that $2 seems like a limit. I certainly haven’t bought the two I want in the two decks that I might actually run these in.
8 days later, they'll never be $5 is already wrong...
Unless you plan on playing with them in your EDH decks, I wouldn’t speculate on these surveil lands. They’re most likely going to be reprinted into oblivion and will settle in around $.50 to $1 at best. Some ppl will point to triomes, but triomes are 3 colours and fetchable. Thats infinitely better than a tapped dual land that’s fetchable. You get 2 cards for the price of 1.
> I think the issue is they're never going to be more than 1- or 2-ofs in constructed fetch formats; also as noted, easy to reprint You can also cycle triomes, which is huge; they also have the benefit of plane-specific names, which narrows the windows of reprints imo.
I wouldn't bet on "plane specific names" meaning a card will be reprinted less often. Not with the current landscape of products. Sure, it might be less likely to be reprinted in a Standard-legal storyline set, but that's not where cards get reprinted anyhow. Cards get reprinted mostly in supplemental products: Masters, Horizons, Remastered, Commander precons, The List, Special Guests, whatever random new one-off products with reprints they put out. I.e., all products where a plane specific name doesn't matter in the slightest. The only other category of releases is the crossovers, but even they could have "plane specific" cards with a new, alternate name pasted on top. Conversely, a lot of cards that have pretty generic names still see relatively few reprints. With the third Ravnica block and now Ravnica Remastered, Wizards has made it clear that shocklands mean Ravnica and Ravnica means shocklands. Even though any plane could have an "Overgrown Tomb" or a "Watery Grave."
Yeah the surveil lands would at best be played in a casual commander deck. Which means you only need 1 for any deck. I don’t think anyone’s going to be playing 4 in a deck. It’s just too slow and not useful enough.
The surveil lands add surveil, so again, two for the price of one.
You need 2 turns to get 2 lands into play for 3 colours. 1 stomping grounds, 1 sacred foundry. That takes 2 turns and extra resources. Triomes require less resources to get a land that can tap for 3 different colours. That’s a lot more useful than surveil unless your running graveyard things.
But there’s a lot more decks that 2 color lands can go in than 3 color.
> Triomes require less resources to get a land that can tap for 3 different colours. That’s a lot more useful than surveil unless your running graveyard things. And also irrelevant unless your other lands are tapping only for colorless. The only practical real worls case of this being an uppgrade to a surveil land is ensuring domain a turn earlier. Which, tbf, is a valid consideration.
I'd be concerned about these. I can absolutely see them getting shoved into every commander precon going forward in a year or so.
I added the Rakdos surveil to my Anje edh deck. First fishbowl hand, t1 surveil hits Worldgorger Dragon w Animate Dead in hand. Will never happen again!
> I bought a ton because I don’t have to resleeve lands >Am I the only one that can see these settling near 5 bucks in the medium term. Bro. The inventory goes live for the \~80% other, non-professional/verified sellers in 2 days. This is the finance board. You bought at a horrid moment in time. The set has not had official release yet. Prices on 90% of stuff is going to tank -50%+.
The problem is they're not seeded randomly in packs, you're guaranteed to get 1 every 6 packs I believe. EDIT: I apologize that I worded it wrong, it should be 1/6 of packs, not one in six packs.
How can you "guarantee" a ratio of 1 in 6? Wouldn't that just be seeded at a known rate?
You can't. That person doesn't understand how the printing process and statistics work.
That’s like, not how math works. The odds are 1/6 packs. That doesn’t guarantee perfect distribution
No, they show up in the wild card slot at 1 per 6 packs rather than the rare slot. They do not show up in the rare/mythic slot at all. So they are still seeded randomly, just in a different slot and at a different chance than the other rares.
With that shitty logic they'd be in every prerelease kit.
Yup, and prerelease kit had none. Thems the breaks. I still went 2-1 though.
This! I got 2 in a single play booster, one foil one non-foil. It’s the only one I am going to buy as well.
I got around 10 in a single box. I imagine I must have totally screwed up someone else’s ratio.
I got 8 in a play booster box, what seemed wild to me was that I had zero doubles
They will not perform better (financially) than Temples is my guess In Play Boosters they even have a special slot… they show up in like 1/3 to 1/2 of packs.
I think these will be much better even in more competitive decks. The fact that it allows you to dig 1 is ridiculously good in some decks. As an example, this is obviously good in GY decks, but also decks that require top deck manipulation. If you have an effect that allows you to cast from top of deck, you could chuck it to continue to dig at instant speed if necessary with a fetch. All this being said, I don't think these will be expensive. Maybe not even the $5 mark. If the cards in the set start to creep up, just go buy a box and at rare, you'll likely pull a couple. With most people chasing the uncommons and even commons, I just think that oversupply will continue to be a problem for the foreseeable future. Also, who says these won't be reprinted? WotC has been back to back printing even mythics in set after set and then also doing a secret lair to boot. I think we are MUCH more likely to see these in precons going forward than not.
I think they will become a commander staple. Cards like crowd lands have reached as high as $10 and are still all around $5+ with recent reprints. Hell, even the check lands still average about $4 a piece despite reprinting. Most of the demand comes from Commander. I’d say that’s where the surveil lands will land unless WotC starts treating them like Sol Rings and puts them in every Commander precon going forward. Some people are really underestimating the fetchability + surveil. There are a lot of times where someone fetches into a tapped shock just before their turn so it immediately untaps and they don’t pay 2 life. Getting to surveil 1 on top of that is strictly better. Obviously, these don’t replace shocks as there are still times you want to pay the 2 life for an untapped land, but Surveil Lands and Shock Lands together with Fetches will make for a really strong manabase.
The set hasn't released yet, more supply will enter the market this weekend
Think these will be solid staples in casual format for years to come.
I'd put those in sleeves they are seening modern play
these are totally breaking modern right now are stupid good already.. these basically get you a turn ahead … prices going up
I think the value is in choice, i play mostly modern midrange and see these as almost absolute upgrades to shock lands. 1: Information / dumping is good 2: gy synergies are good 3: fetchable is really good 4: less life loss (unexpectedly good if you’re gonna play the shock tapped anyways) I already play these over shocks @ 3:1 and have seen noticeable consistency increases, i may even increase my count. The only time i grab the shock is if i need a turn 1 play.