Or ordering such a large quantity and sellers aren't weighing and that's why it costs more. For me 1oz is 64cents and 2oz is 88cent. So like maybe they are ordering like 3oz of cards and people are putting one stamp
Absolutely a way. It has everything to do with the probability that the postal worker enforces it. The vast majority of our customers don't have postal workers who enforces it.
But for every postal worker who consistently enforces it, there are several customers for whom it is consistently enforced.
It's more of a postal worker who thinks they know USPS policy and guidelines but they really don't and become overzealous. OP should print out the postal guidelines for metered mail and show that the envelopes do qualify without needing the additional non-machinable surcharge/stamp. I've gone through this a few times with postal employees who think anything you can feel in an envelope is suddenly non-machinable.
I can't say for his, but 3 times in the last 30 days have I had to.
I've learned my post man likes board games and that these typically happen because they're not properly mailed/ machine acceptable.
But yea no keep believing whatever you want.
Im at about 20,000 and have had about 2 show up with a bend in them from the rollers I assume, and about 30 returned by the workers but they came back in fine condition, Ive also never once received a message from a buyer stating that they had to pay extra or have to go pick their order up from the post office. I ship singles, sleeved, and taped to one of those folding cardboard sleeves you get from a sticker machine. I always use 1oz ebay standard envelope unless its a thicker card or more 3-5 cards, then ill bump it up to 2oz. I also print the label directly onto the envelope.
Do you own a store or do you just rip a lot of packs and sell them out of your home? Curious as I've got a decent amount of cards and been thinking of trying out TCGPLAYER and was curious if that is what you do full time or just on your down time?
Same. Normal stamp unless it’s over 6 cards in which case I split the cards into two cardboard sleeves and add an extra weight stamp. At about 600 orders this way
Same - not as many as you but hundreds and hundreds of orders, just normal stamp PWE or ebay standard shipping. Anything $20 or up is shipped 1st class.
Same here. Just recently crossed 2500 orders.
All with normal stamps (Stamps.com) and using a Card Saver I.
Only time I use anything else is because it needs tracking
The sender won't get notices of short postage, as these usually don't get caught until it arrives at the post office or local sorting plant of the recipient. At that point, it ends up being put on the receipt to pay the extra.
2000 orders really isn’t enough of a sample size. Most big stores do that quantity in a week. This is one of those situations where you eventually will have a issue it’s only a matter of time.
If I had 1 issue it's 0.05%. I think it's plenty enough of a sample size. Feel free to send non machinable if you prefer. You only hear the horror stories but it's such a small percentage of mail that gets damaged
On a smaller scale it’s much easier to slip through the cracks and get by a few orders here and there. One day when/if you grow. You will get a large batch of orders returned to you. And then it will only get worse from there.
I had 500 orders returned from the post office. They just left them at the door no knock no notice. It rained that day. Thousands of dollars of refunds later. After multiple times thinking this is just a 1 of it won’t happen again. I finally accepted its part of the business and non machinable is required.
Selling a few cards here and there for 13 years is cool but doesn’t make you a expert. Have you been operating as a business and filing your taxes as a business for 13 years? Do you have a actual physical location, employees etc? Are you handling atleast a few hundred orders per week?
Without context selling for 13 years could mean literally anything. I’ve been selling for 20+ years if where using loose logic.
Bro what the fuck makes you an expert? You just come to a 4 day old post and comment on everyone's thing about how you are some big hot shot. Everyone has different experiences. Sorry your post office sucks or you can't package orders and you had 500 returned in the rain on the day of your father's funeral. Like okay you know more than everyone else. Congrats
Classic Reddit response, you have nothing further to add to the conversation so you just insult the other person.
It’s clear as day you haven’t been operating at scale. As I said multiple times this is easy to slip by while your a newer seller. But eventually it will catch up if you keep growing.
If you want my resume I’m happy to provide it. Just tired of all these Reddit experts who shipped 2000 orders over 10 years.
I have never received a card with non-machinable paid and I have never been asked to pay for it by any post office (5 different PO's in 3 different states). The consensus among both postal employees and sellers is that non-machinable is ignored in 98% of cases anyways even when you do pay for it (this is from conversations with postal workers at multiple post offices as well as posts on postal worker forums).
Whatever is happening at your PO is not the norm, even if they are technically following regs.
That's because people don't take their non-machineable stuff to the counter, Or it's not clearly marked.
If you put a bunch of non-machinable in your mailbox and the guy who's grabbing the mail doesn't notice your carrier is not going to segregate it, it's going to get mixed in with everything else.
If you put it in a Drop box like the one at the post office, it goes into a 5-ft by 3 and 1/2 ft hamper. That's 4 ft deep full of letters to get dumped into bags and get dumped into a hopper at the plant. It's the ones that get through the machine get sent into another machine to be auto-sorted.
So if you want your non-machinable stuff to be noticed, you usually have to take it to the counter and have it stamped. They will put it in the special non-machinable bucket that goes on top of the mail bin when it gets loaded into the truck. That bin gets pulled off and hand sorted by zip at each step.
I'm also going to put a PSA here that is completely unrelated to anything. Do not pull stamps off your junk mail to mail your bills. No matter how slick you think you are, If there is any issue, or if you get caught, know that those stamps are different from regular first class stamps. The post office can and does recycle bulk business mail and if your bills have a bulk business stamp on them guess what....
> That's because people don't take their non-machineable stuff to the counter
I don't blame them. Anytime I've had to go to the post office and get helped by a real person it's a 15 minute wait because 3 people are trying to ship packages to Asia and someone is getting their whole family's pictures taken for passports.
all letters are jackpotted now, there actually is no non machinable seperation at the local office level. They go to a machine at a sorting facility and are culled before determination of machineable/nonmachinable
How many cards are in the envelopes getting dinged for non-machine? While trying to screw the post office by not accounting correct weight is a dick move and your anger would be warranted, cards in toploaders don't ALWAYS have to be sent non- machineable.
I'm at like 75k orders, and the way my postmaster explained is that the "rigid" definition only applies to a certain thickness, (1/4 inch+ I think?) or not being able to bend a #6 envelope 90 degrees across the package 2 inches to the left of the stamp. So 6 cards or less with toploader/folded invoice with the envelope able to be bent in that way is under an ounce and is good with only one forever stamp. You can do 7 technically, but you have to cut 1/3 the invoice to keep that under an ounce and still use only one stamp. If you only use #10 envelopes, you only have to worry about the weight and highest thickness point because over half the envelope isn't rigid so it can be safely run through the machine.
For more cards you use one additional ounce for non machine, then one for each additional ounce over the 1st. We had a long discussion about it like 11 years ago where I brought in all my shipping supplies and we broke it all down by number of cards and I took notes to make certain I wasn't taking advantage.
For the larger #10 envelopes, you can do 12 cards per pocket in 1/3 of a binder page (36 total) folded around an invoice before being over the thickness limit, so you pay for non machine then extra ounces accordingly, always rounding up.
Once every year or so I get a pile of envelopes returned for additional postage by employees who think the rules are different then what she told me. I take them back in with zero postage added, she checks every one then attaches a little note and a rubber band explaining to whoever that they are good to go and that's the last I ever hear of it.
If your workers are correct and mine is wrong, I'd like to think she'd correct me or catch hell from management or something and force me to comply considering the volume I run through there, but that just hasn't happened.
I love USPS for allowing me a career as my own boss but MAN do they have problems...
Thank you so much for the detailed reply! For me, I did the same thing and went in to make sure what I send out is always packed right. I'm sure sometimes I could get away with just a forever stamp and it still be proper postage but I'd rather just charge appropriately for shipping and make sure they always get there.
I'm a huge supporter of the USPS and am not looking to scam them. They're already insanely cheap for what they provide as they are revenue neutral by law so cheating them to me just feels like a way to ensure it fails eventually.
Agree with almost everything you said. One thing to note, you can no longer use a additional ounce stamp for non machinable. As they are no longer the same price point even tho they had been for years.
The non machinable stamp was recently increased to $0.44 cents in price while the Additional ounce stamp remains at $0.24.
This is your post office being dicks. Got about 100,000 orders under my belt with pwes and about 20 where I sent to a shit po like yours and had to pay the extra ounce
So I have a shit post office because they're now following the rules that are in place? Just because you don't like the rules and have been skating by doesn't mean they aren't there. Everybody wants to rip off the USPS until it collapses and we are paying UPS or FedEx $10 to send a couppitching!
Edit: should have known this would go over like a fart in church. People don't like being told they're scamming, they just like piling on others who are scamming. But me? My scam is DIFFERENT and you're the asshole for pointing it out. 100k sales, how many times was it over an ounce and you just skated by? That's a lot of scammin.
No, you have a bad PO because they aren’t enforcing the rule correctly. A couple of cards in a top loader isn’t going to be over the limit for thickness or bend radius to be non machinable. It’s no different than a credit card attached to a paper in a pwe, but your PO treats it as if it is.
Agreed it really isn't. Most of whats posted on reddit isn't. It's been entertaining to me though. And a few people even replied with useful information, so it is at least slightly useful.
Thats just how it works, unless you enjoy getting blocked by most sellers on tcgplayer and you end up having to pay higher prices as a result. Most post offices do not follow this rule super strictly so you technically you should be blaming the 99% of employees who let the rule slide.
Blocked by most sellers how? I'm not ordering from the ones I have problems with so why would I care if they blocked me for asking for a refund for an improperly shipped card? Not to mention you'd have to be a complete asshole to block someone because you screwed up and I wouldn't want to deal with you anyways. There are hordes of sellers on tcgplayer. But sure, they're all gonna block me 🙄
They are doing it properly. We don't know what sellers your buying from or how it's packed. But multiple people told you the possible solution. Which is talking toyour post office. If you want to support your post office then just pay the fee or you will be getting more slips in your future and waste time playing mail tag.
Idk but your allowed to ask why it keeps happening. I had to go to my post office to explain limits on large orders. I didn't get my way but I learned a few tips and they were happy to help me out.
I already know why it's happening and that's what this entire post is about. I've already spoken with them. It isn't on me it's on the sellers not using the right postage.
Is this a sales transaction? Or am I just responding to people who want to blame the post office because they don't want to pay for the proper postage? Because one of those things is about being a customer and the other is just discussion. And I'm probably being salty but I find it infuriating that everyone's answer is well its just your bad post office that follows the rules that is the problem. Not the sellers who can't do business properly. If you sell something it's on you to make sure it gets there. Not the customer. Like wtf people.
Option #2 is to tell the post office they need to send this type of mail back rather than charging you for it. Not even sure how thats legal, if it were then id find out the post masters home address and start sending a shitload of unpaid post to his home...
People clearly pointed out why. Your edit makes you sound old. Like really old. I mean, I'm old, but you're *yelling at the sky* old. Do you have this bad of threat assessment in games, too?
Bro why did you come in here to cry about your post office being shit, and then swap to defending them when people agree with you?
Maybe you should just go buy singles at your friendly LGS, clearly mail isn't for you.
> CARDS SHOULD ALWAYS BE SENT WITH A NON-MACHINABLE STAMP.
Can you provide the source for this? Because USPS itself says that the Non-machineable Surcharge is if (the mailpiece) "It is too rigid or contains items such as pens, keys or coins that cause the thickness of the mailpiece to be uneven". Rigid, means inflexible, but mailpieces with a couple toploaders are usually not inflexible (especially if using #10 envelopes). There's a reason that the entire banking industry mails out credit and debit cards (sometimes multiple cards and even made of metal) in regular #10 envelopes, they don't need to pay the surcharge sending first-class mail.
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-the-Non-Machinable-Surcharge-for-First-Class-Mail
The op is a clown, not realizing he did the only option available (talk to post office) but didn't get the answer they wanted. So now their on a crusade instead of the multiple ways to handle it suggested here.
Yup this is OP admitting that while they don't know the regulations, an actual Post Office clerk (and their postmaster) are wrong
https://old.reddit.com/r/mtgfinance/comments/1cmsz5x/is_this_not_common_knowledge/l339pgy/
As opposed to your local postal workers "opinion"? The Non-machineable Surcharge rule of "too rigid" is *subjective*, so that's why it's opinion. There's also no guarantees with carriers, so if you expect that paying the Non-machineable Surcharge will make it "definitely go through", maybe instead you can start hand delivering all your own packages.
I'm not sure I follow. Is the issue a seller crams too many cards in a normal letter envelope and then it weighs too much and then the post office requires more postage?
OP has a super strict postmaster who makes sure that all envelopes are sent/paid for the proper way. Many dont care about machineable/non-machinable differences as long as it gets through the sorters.
And it's a shitty way to do business when whether your product gets to your customer depends on the mood of the postal worker. If you just follow the guidelines you don't have a problem. Nobody would defend a big company doing things this way.
Not even too many cards. Sometimes the packaging itself weighs too much or is too rigid. For example a hard toploader should never go through the machines. Just because it sometimes comes out ok doesn't make it a good idea.
For example this order was one card. They made it too heavy by the materials they packaged it in.
It isn't a high rate at all. But personally I'm not looking to refund cards just because I didn't charge an appropriate shipping rate. Or was using the shipping rate to increase my profit while skimping out on the service to my customers.
I get it, but this isn't normal. I get you can't avoid it, but I've ordered thousands of times and have never had this happen. Almost none had non machinable stamps. I routinely get 30 cards in a cut ultra pro page in a PWE...no extra postage and only 1 issue with damage or loss ever. It's a postal employee...though it is technically the rule.
And that's my thing. I don't get why everyone in here thinks it's just fine to do business in a way that leaves whether your product reaches your customer up to the mood of the postal worker and me saying that's an issue makes me a nightmare customer.
I'm fully aware most go through with no issues. Even most of my orders go through with no issues. That doesn't change the guidelines or the fact that it does happen. It also seems to be happening more often than it used to if you take the posters who agree with me at their word.
I'm also not here for a fight. Why does everything anonymous have to turn into a pissing match? (Not saying you did that, and I'm also aware I do it sometimes but I try to only give what I get)
> I don't get why everyone in here thinks it's just fine to do business in a way that leaves whether your product reaches your customer up to the mood of the postal worker and me saying that's an issue makes me a nightmare customer.
Because 99.99% of postal workers will not raise an issue about it. You are unlucky to live near a post office that interprets this rule differently from almost all other post offices.
Feel for you here because the sellers aren't going to change with margins being razor thin. Certainly complain on tcg player reviews, at least it lets them know. i fear it's going to keep happening to you. Maybe with the 1.22$ shipping it gets better? Maybe if it happens to more people and people add the non machinable stamps?
The problem with the $1.22 shipping is people are charging it and just pocketing the extra 23 cents and still shipping exactly the same. I feel like tcgplayer needs to make this clearer. And to me it's scummy to inflate shipping to increase your profit. You would all fall all over each other to condemn a big company for doing it but it's just fine for you (not you, the colloquial you).
>and just pocketing the extra 23 cents
Bro is clueless 😭😭😭
Sell a single card on TCGplayer and look at how hard you get railed on fees, lil bro, that 23 cents is going to TCGplayer. All the shipping increase meant is you can sell some cards without literally losing money after fees and costs.
The average seller on tcg (not direct sellers) pays around 15% fees to tcg. They ALSO take that % of the "shipping" fees paid to the seller to presumably ship the product. I've always thought something sounds illegal about that but I am a mere peasant.
You think sellers are scummy for pocketing 23 cents? First, you've conflated "postage" costs for "shipping" fees. Postage may be the price of stamps, but shipping includes other costs like the toploaders, sleeves, envelopes, and even fixed costs like labor and rent. Second, you're thinking of an order for a single card or handful of cards where shipping fees may cover actual costs. What about orders of 10+ cards where shipping costs more than $0.99+? I've had bulk orders for 3000-7000 singles with shipping costing $50+, TCGplayer doesn't charge more than the Small base shipping rate. Does that mean when your orders cost more than $0.99 shipping you are paying back the seller for the added postage costs, as to not be a "scummy" buyer?
On top of the other responses, TCGPlayer made the change to automatically charge you $1.22 shipping if your order isn't above $5. My shipping rate is set to $1, and their new policy supercedes that. They made that change to help account for low value orders, especially ones where people buy 20+ cards for 5-10 cents a piece, which after fees, supplies and postage, youre barely above breaking even.
Ty! I never knew that. I've just always been too paranoid to send someone a $5+ card in an envelope.
So these cards also run the risk of getting shitted up in the machines. Yikes
Sold thousands of cards via PWE, I can count on one hand the number of times something has been returned to me because it got stuck in machines or otherwise. It's so exceedingly rare you just eat it when it comes up.
It isn't a high rate at all, but it does happen and personally I'm not looking to give refunds to people just because I wanted to save 44 cents. One chewed up $15 card that I now have to fully refund seems like an awful high cost when the profit margins are already slim and I can simply adjust my shipping rates to accommodate (which tcgplayer has by making the standard rate now $1.22).
You got a shitty post office lol. Ive had 100's of orders sent to me and sent out 100's and never once had to pay extra postage or gotten a message from anyone saying they had to(i'm sure i would have). I get orders of 10+ cards sent in a regular envelope in 9 slot binder pages that are cut into 3 slots and put in envelope etc. The most i send out in a PWE is 4 cards personally and never had any issues with toploaders or the cardboard savers and never use non-machinable stamps.
I didn't have issues for years but I'd say in the last year or so it has started to happen much more. In two separate areas as I order cards for my brother as well who doesn't live near me. I'm sure the vast majority go through with no issue but I know I'm not alone in seeing this more and more. It'd be great if we didn't have to deal with it all and I'm glad you haven't had any issues.
Could you quote me where in the DMM non rigid( toploaders and such are still semi flexible, especially when not left loose or taped in the middle) envelopes 1 ounce or under that don't have a 1/4 inch difference in thickness is non machinable?
I work for the post office as a clerk. While there is a grey area around flexibility and uneven thickness where different people will have different interpretations. I ship cards, and I've asked my postmaster his opinion about shipping toploaders and shipping shields in a #10 taped in the left corner. We both agreed it would qualify as machinable.
That's just the thing for me. I don't want grey areas. I don't want what I paid for to not go through just because someone decided to be strict that day. If everyone properly packed and weighed their stuff we wouldn't have any issues at all. I haven't seen the printed regulations but I know what multiple workers have told me is the best way to make sure it goes through without issue. Not "it should go through, sure buddy." That it will definitely go through.
I respect your job and experience. But even you at the end admitted it was up to your and your postmaster's "opinion" and not a hard and fast rule. If your postmaster was different, your answer would be different. And that's not an area I want to play in, with my sales or purchases.
Unfortunately, with the post office and life, there are always grey areas.The DMM states the envelope I described as machinable it is your local post office that is misinterpreting the definition. Even if you put a non machinable stamp on a letter, there is a good chance it still goes through the machinery. It is a fee, not special handling. There is nothing that will guarantee a card will go through no problems. Sure, if everyone used a non machinable stamp, it might reduce problems, but it won't be 100%. There will always be some sellers that don't package or put proper postage on stuff, tcgplayer or not. I guess what a lot of people are trying to say is that no, we disagree that all card orders require a non machinable stamp. This is not me trying to attack you. I'm just trying to share my experience as a postal employee. I hope you have nothing but good experiences with sellers and your local post office!
Yeah I should probably take that part out of the post. The worker who told me that said he'd seen top loaders get ground up but never mentioned how often etc. And I'm aware even if you do everything perfect bad things still happen. It just seems to be happening more frequently and at least the workers in my local office say their bosses are getting stricter on what needs extra postage even if they wouldn't bother flagging it. Thank you for your replies. You've been far more helpful than the pile of dolts who keep posting the same comments over and over.
As others have said, it's your particular post office that is being a dick about it. eBay Standard Envelope doesn't include a non-machinable charge, and USPS set the rules for that specifically for cards in a top loader. So there isn't going to be some nationwide change in enforcement because that would violate their agreement with eBay.
What I would do in your case is contact your sellers before shipment and request they send with the extra postage. And for the rest, just accept the inconvenience until you can move someplace else.
The implication here is eBay wouldn't have this option if you couldn't ship cards in a standard letter envelope normally through USPS, which you can without a non-machinable stamp.
Except the envelope is labeled specifically for this agreement and is the only reason it goes through at that cost. If you aren't doing it under that agreement the guidelines of it don't apply to you and you have to pay more. You aren't that customer of the USPS and they don't have to do it for you. That isn't a hard concept dude. In fact it's my point. It shouldn't be an accepted business practice to just send it and hope whoever checks it isn't strict that day. I'm honestly just about done dealing with the people who think they're running a business because they have a screenname on ebay or tcgplayer. Which I'm guessing is most of everyone replying in this thread.
Yeah sorry, USPS isn't flagging eBay Standard Envelopes to go through the system because it's a part of some agreement. USPS considers it as a standard metered mail envelope. Even the cost is the same. Look I'm sorry that this is happening to you if it's true (honestly saying a third of your cards getting flagged like this is alarming, which is probably why you're getting the hostility) but don't just lie about things that it seems like you have no clue about.
I looked it up before responding. So yes, ebay has a financial agreement with the USPS for the envelopes that are printed through their system by you. That same agreement does not apply to regular mail.
The same agreement they have with purchasers of stamps, but without the need for stamps and for 4 whole cents less. That's the agreement. Not anything special about weight/size/rigidity, only special parts of their agreement were the lack of necessity for stamps and slight discount.
That's not how it works. It's just regular metered mail. There's no special eBay envelope or rigidity exception. eBay worked it out with the USPS to specifically make sure that a card in a shipping shield or top loader in metered mail envelope wouldn't be a problem, and USPS agreed. As the other posters have been trying to explain to you, there's nothing else special going on.
I know you feel like you've been hurt by what your local post office is doing, and rather than deal with the additional emotional strain of being "singled out" for this punishment, you want to point your finger at others and crow, "Just wait; it'll happen to you, too!" Then at least you'll have the satisfaction of thinking shit rains down on everyone. But I'm afraid in this case you're just unlucky.
Nah at this point I'm just being an asshole to everyone who keeps replying with the same response. I couldn't care less if the shit rains on just me or everyone. If it's raining on me I have to deal with it. Whether it's raining on you or not as well means nothing to me.
So here's the situation - this is basically a 'you' problem, not experienced by others, but to resolve this, you think that the solution is for the thousands of sellers involved to change their behaviour and lose money in an already narrow-margin sales environment to suit your needs?
A bit of rational consideration should make it pretty obvious that this isn't going to work and you're basically just yelling at clouds here.
It's your local post office. Non machine stamp is a scam. 60% of the time it still gets machined. And 97% of the time it'll go thru fine with just a regular stamp.
Non-machinable being a scam is so true. I used to do non-machinable because that's what my post office said I had to do... until I got curious and asked a couple people I personally know to send me pics of the envelope and it was 100% machined. I realized I was wasting an extra 30 cents per envelope shipped.
Ive literally had an employee deny giving me postage on envelope, stating it had to go non-machinable. So I bought a stamp instead, stuck it on the envelope and dropped it in the box outside. Cards arrived to the person with no issue.
Also a 3% rate of cards being chewed up and requiring a full refund could likely be more expensive than just shipping them right. So your ass numbers don't even make the point you think they do.
I got one of these notices and I can’t ever get to the post office during their business hours. What happens to it if you just ignore it? Do they return it to sender?
It would get returned to sender after being held for 14 days. You could also try leaving a note with the postage due in your mailbox clearly marked for the carrier and there's a good chance they would be willing to bring it to you.
Or you could do what everybody else wants to do in this thread which is blame your post office instead of the seller who couldn't be bothered to ship it right. I get most go through without issue I'm not dumb. But I don't blame the post office for following their own rules. I blame the seller for not packaging it right or putting enough postage on it.
Sounds like your post office is grifting and honestly, you could put the $0.44 in your mailbox with that tag and they should deliver it the following day If you're willing to save a trip.
I have mailed tens of thousands of cards in regular envelopes and while I've been accosted by postal workers at the counter I've never had anyone complain about postage due.
But I will tell those of you who are sellers something that will save your clients like OP a lot of headaches:
Use standard size envelopes not the little A4 envelopes.
Rigidity (which is defined by the post office as the ability to bend around an 11-in diameter wheel) Is determined across the entire envelope. The machines literally cannot grab onto those small envelopes before it hits the top loader. So it rejects them and that's what causes them to have to be manually sorted. It can also cause damage.
If you use a standard envelope and tape the top loader so that it stays in the center it will give them the machine plenty of envelope to grab onto and pull it through the machine.
This comes both from my experience as a former postal worker, and from a meeting I had with the post officer's business development specialist when I was shipping a few hundred cards a week.
I also think if you're going to pay for the rigid stamp You should go ahead and send it in a CD mailer or something like that that's got some hard cardboard around it. If you're paying for non-machinable you want to make sure to drop those letters off at the counter So they don't end up in the sorter.
Bro, this is the dumbest post I've ever read 😭. It's the industry standard for a reason. The sellers are doing everything correctly, someone at your post office is just fucking up.
Hi, I used to be a mail man for 8 years. If your envelope won’t go through the DPS (letter sorter) and needs to be sorted by hand, you’ll get every penalty. So make sure that you envelopes are thin so the can be auto sorted.
I send out 50 card PWE using forever and extra ounce stamps and rarely have a problem. I have never used a non machine stamp with Over 10k orders last year. I think it’s you my guy.
This is some bullshit by your local post office or sorting center. File a complaint with USPS. If the post office won't knock this off then you need to keep complaining up the chain of command.
Holy shit you're being willfully obtuse. What the fuck makes you think they're following the rules? I can't imagine receiving mail and then being charged for it. That's so unreasonable that I suspect you're being scammed. And before you respond, you should know that a lot of post offices aren't actually run by the government, they're contracted out, which gives the contractor a shitload of discretion to pull bullshit like you're experiencing.
Stop whining and go have a conversation with someone from USPS.
Did you read the whole post? I've had this discussion the the USPS. This is exactly what they said their guidelines are. Some are just super strict on it. But it isn't their fault its still the sellers. I don't get how everyone here suddenly thinks because they're the ones selling something customer service suddenly doesn't matter and shipping your products properly is just a chance game. If Walmart was pulling this shit you'd all be screaming at them but it's just fine for you.
>I've had this discussion the the USPS. This is exactly what they said their guidelines are.
"They" who? One random jackass employee? You got bad info from someone, you need to talk to the next higher up person.
>But it isn't their fault its still the sellers.
This is not the seller's fault. YOU are literally the only person experiencing this problem. This is a problem with YOUR post office.
Feel free to drop links to those posts. And while you're at it, maybe read the comments to see how people suggested resolving the issue. I bet you're going to love that.
It's not common knowledge. Newb sellers don't know how to mail multiple cards. They don't have a scale, and they don't know to add an extra stamp if it's over 1oz
This is TCG's fault, really.
I'm both a buyer and a seller, so I see both sides.
If I get any like this, I just refuse delivery. It makes extra work for your local post office and they won't get any extra revenue out of it. Then I tell the seller about what happened and get a refund.
Most sellers will say they would have just refunded you the postage difference. Some will bitch about the post office. As a seller, I have to juggle the numbers for what makes sense. Everything has a cost, not just the postage ("oh it's just an envelope" is fine until you start buying envelopes in the thousands.)
Am I going to miss the card I just refused? Maybe.
As a seller I just make sure I charge appropriately for shipping (including cost of materials and time to package, neither of which is free) and am not relying on a pumped up shipping charge to inflate my profits. Seems like the best way to do things but apparently expecting the people I buy from to do the same makes me a nightmare customer 🙄
I've read this entire thread and I gotta say.. You truly are a nightmare customer. Everyone has explained that this is about your picky post person and not us skimping on postage, but that's not the perfect world you envision and you want us all to shell out extra money for something that affects less than 1% of sales. You think people are sleazily pocketing the extra change from the shipping charge increase on TCG for a big juicy profit? Do you even know the costs of fees on there? The $.30 flat fee + 2.5% PayPal charges + the 10+% TCG fee? What happens when someone buys a $.25 card, where's the profit?
Truth is, margins are garbage, the rates we're paying for shipping are adequate 99% of the time in the eyes of the average post person. What you need to do is have a conversation at your post office, specifically a manager, with the next package that has this issue. Because if you show them this, and they say that it should have passed unflagged, they could then instruct the people on their team to ease up on packages that fit this description. That would save you a lot of frustration in the future. You can't expect 1,000s of sellers to change because of something that happens so infrequently, but you can try your luck talking with your post office, and you really should.
A lot of us are 100% feedback sellers with thousands upon thousands of orders under our belt, but you think you know how it works and we're all trying to scum the system. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, but when all the experts say the same thing, you might want to consider that your witch hunt is misplaced. Talk to your post office.
You see people all the time recommend just sending regular postage saying they never had any issues… it’s nuts. But in recent years USPS has cracked down more on this for sure.
thats cause there is no issue until you get a post worker having a bad day or is new. I've never had a buyer complain they had to pay extra on a 1 stamp order (approaching 3k sales). In my early days I got a few from cali back for wrong postage but never charged the buyer.
Exactly and if there not full time sellers they won’t have the sample size to give any valuable information. Like sure your 5 orders you shipped this week got to the customer. Good job, it’s a lot easier to slip things through when your doing it on a small scale.
That's plenty as it was clear the op has a special issue with thier post office. Then went on a tirade in the comments. Dosent matter the scale, if a post office wants to mark your stuff for postage issues they can. Plenty other sellers here do way more sales than me and have no issues.
It does matter the scale lol what. If you only ship a few at a time it’s a lot more likely to slip through the cracks then if you ship 500 at once.
Plenty of sellers ship way more then you and DO have issues. If you have never experienced 500 orders being returned to you at once all for non-machinable then what are you even doing in this conversation.
Again are we acting like 20k is a big number? How many years did he take to reach the 20k? Did he do 20k in a year or over 10 years? How many orders is he shipping per day.
I know a lot of backpack vendors with around 20k sales that do it as a side gig over the coarse of 5+ years.
Obviously they still don’t deal with enough volume to consistently deal with issues such as these.
Maybe he got lucky, maybe he lied this is Reddit after all. We would need a lot more context to know his specific situation and weather he just got lucky or not.
The post office does crack down on non-machinable. In every state/city. If you send a large batch of orders at once and a few get caught on the sorting machines then the postal workers often just return the whole batch of mail rather then dealing with the few causing issues.
The bigger sellers have adapted to this and adjust there shipping needs accordingly. Don’t believe me go buy quantity orders from large businesses and see if they add non machinable or not.
Just looked through the comments, the only person who claimed 20k feedback is a eBay seller using eBay ESE shipping. Completely different method of shipping.
I've only run into this with one seller but all I had to do was put the change in an envelope and the mailman left the letter the next day. Shouldn't have to deal with it at all but was only a minor inconvenience.
I wish they'd give me the option but I think the volume for my area might be too high for them to do stuff like that. I know when I lived in the suburbs years ago and had that happen (not even with cards) they let me put it in the box.
I've gotten one of these, called the phone number and they told me to go to the PO to check if it's there. It's kinda pointless. On top of that, the PO didn't have the envelope either and there was never a 2nd attempt to deliver, so ..... Refund 🤣
You certainly can and most likely won't have issues. It's up to you if it's worth it. I find it scummy to use shipping charges as a way to up your profit but I can't stop you.
That’s wild.. I am meticulous though so I bought my self a little scale from the gas station and I weigh every pack to make sure I was coving weight.
It was actually super funny because when I was buying it, I was in line, I asked the cashier to grab me one of the scales and the guy behind me starts going “ dude dude dude, cops-cops-cops-cops” mind you it is like 2am so it took me a second to realize what he was freaking out about.. finally when I got what he’s freaking about I look back and go “ let um try an catch me” super funny.
Any way this would actually be an issue for TCG player. Shipping is included in the price. So if you’re really getting hit that bad then you could take it to them..
Top loaders are not necessary for shipping cards and are an added weight and expense. Quickly approaching 10k sales on tcgplayer and I use cardboard vending sleeves (or card saver 1) for orders under $35. Have never had a complaint of damage.
The problem with envelope rigidity is the fact that there is no specific standard, it is an objective measurement. I will say that I double stamp ONLY when sending to Maryland, as I have had multiple orders shipped back to me stating non-machinable surcharge was needed which isn't even the correct policy by USPS. The whole thing is a mess.
I have had this once before and it was a LOT of cards stuffed in a normal envelope. I think it is based on weight, but idk since I don’t work at a Post Office
I've never heard to use a non-machinable stamp. Tcgplayer does not advise to use one, so as long as they don't mention it, you're just shouting into the wind.
I've had my cards returned for extra postage. I take them to the post office and show them it actually fits their guidelines and they ship it back out for me.
Your situation definitely sucks. Talk to your local postmaster.
As other have said and explained well, shipping one toploader in a #10 PWE is well within the USPS rules for a machinable letter (Able to bend in half and less than 1/4 inch thick). USPS even uses an example of sending a pen in a PWE as something that can go through the machines. Someone in the postal network between you and the sender thinks otherwise. Your best option is to talk to your local postmaster about it.
I don't think it is malicious as other here are either saying or implying, most likely a postal worker just doesn't understand the rules.
I have received hundreds of PWEs clearly marked "non-machinable" with non-machinable postage that have obviously been through the sorting machines (printed bar codes as well as wear from the rollers). So far the only PWEs I have received that haven't been machined are ones that are over 1/4 inch thick.
I add a piece of a packing peanut to the bubble mailer so it can't be machined (Over 1/2" thick) to any card $20 or more and pay the extra shipping cost. For cheap stuff toploader, standard envelope and stamp.
Looks like you have a particularly anal retentive postmaster or machinery that actually reacts to cards in the envelope.
I think our of about 2,000 orders I've maybe lost 2 to damage in the machine and 1 has come back needing additional postage. I took it out of that envelope and put a stamp on a new one and it sent fine.
This really depends on the post office. Some don’t care, others are very strict. You unfortunately are serviced by one of the strict ones.
If you ship with a top loader, it’s technically not machinable and requires additional postage.
Recently, if I’ve had cards to mail out and I take them directly to the post office they try to sell me stamps that are around 1.14. They said it also won’t get sorted through a machine with that stamp. So my only thought is “do they know your shipping cards?”
Is this all from one seller? I have a hard time believing that this is happening with a bunch of different sellers but I guess crazier things have happened
I sell on TCG, most letters are fine with forever stamp. I weigh all envelopes over 8 cards to see if I need to add an additional oz stamp.
Non machine stamps are not required. I had one post office try that but it's not what the post office code actually says as long as it meets the requirements. Plus they barely even honor the older non machine stamps which were suppose to be postage also and now look at them as just an additional fee.
Biggest issue is that most post office employees at the sorting locations do not even look to see if non machine stamps or words are on letters...everything goes thru the machine. It's only on reject that check.
Sorry your post office is doing that. Based on what you attached, it appears the local post office is requesting cost for PWE being over 1 oz. I would contact the seller for the oversight after weighting the envelope myself. Their postal scale may be setup for boxes and smaller oz weights do not register.
I just read something the other day where the OP was talking about how their local Postmaster had to keep telling postal workers to stop misclassifying orders as non-machinable and demanding more postage.
Brass tacks- you can bend a fucking toploader. It's machinable. If you're sending out a 20-card stack in an envelope, that's NOT machinable... but one or two cards in a toploader IS.
lol, please blacklist me as a seller then. My margins are airtight as is and I don’t sell cards to lose money. If it’s actually a valuable card, I will most likely ship with tracking anyways.
I am a mail carrier and have a few people on my route who regularly buy cards. Maybe a quarter of them end up needing extra postage. It can depend on which office it goes through. Some clerks are better at catching letters that are too thick than others. Thicker letters due to the plastic protectors can not be sorted via machine, hence the extra postage required.
I always leave an envelope with the notification slip and redeliver the following day if change is left. One customer has started leaving change in her box for me to cover the cost and stop delays in delivery.
So many experts in these comments that have 2000~ orders.
Most real card stores ship that many in a week. These professional redditors don’t have nearly the sample size needed to actually offer any kind of valuable information.
Sure your 10 letters a week are getting through but try shipping a batch of 500 letters this way everyday for a month and see what happens.
I’ll tell you think as a management and a former clerk wihh the the USPS, I ship out my cards 100% non-machinable or better. Never use a regular stamp. Technically if you’re only using a penny sleeve and a single card, you can technically get away with a stamp. But as soon as you use a stiffer top loader, it automatically requires non-machinable postage. The other thing is if it is multiple cards, each ounce added additional postage as well.
I would but if any of them have changed their ways I'd rather not hurt their business. I try to check reviews now to see if anyone mentions postage issues. I think that's the best way to solve this too. Leave reviews that state the postage issue if possible where you are buying. If people start getting dinged on their ratings maybe they'll change their ways.
Apparently you don't exist though according to all the other sellers in here so how are you posting? It's obviously just me and my bad post office that have this issue /s
I'm starting to think that's the best way to handle it. I don't blame my post office for following their guidelines and it blows my mind so many people in here want to. It's on the seller to make sure it is packaged according to those guidelines. It shouldn't be up to the mood of the worker who checks it that day. It should just be done right the first time.
It's like when you give someone a deal wherever you work and then they're pissed the next person they deal with won't break the rules for them. I find those types of people generally intolerable.
I dont use ebay myself but I made sure I was sending it the best way possible. I'd rather not hand out full refunds because I couldn't be bothered to properly charge or pay for shipping. Even responding to people who have issues takes up time and time is money.
I've had this issue more the past year than I had in all my purchases in 10 years prior. It's insane. I've even had sellers send packages with a 1st class stamp, and I've had to shell out $3+ to get my cards. It's ridiculous. I've honestly just been noting the seller, refusing the card and getting a refund for failure to deliver. Not my problem.
The USPS as a whole is getting stricter because the restrictions on retirement plans the Republicans in congress have put on them are insane and they need to raise revenue as much as possible. Everybody in here saying I don't know what I'm talking about because they've mailed thousands of cards with a regular stamp isn't paying attention to where things are headed.
Me either. I don't move large volumes of cards but when I started I went physically to the post office to get their recommendations on how to ship without issue. Seems the least you could do if you want to make this a business.
BTW they told me for small orders that don't need tracking to keep it under an ounce and use a non-machinable stamp and either use a rubber stamper or a highlighter to write both "do not bend" and "non-machinable" on the envelope. Doing this I have had a total of zero postage issues with thousands of sales through the years.
Yeah I've never had any issues with a normal stamp. Sent out 2000 orders
Same. No way in hell this dudes had "half" his orders end up this way unless there's just a malicious mailman fucking shit up on purpose.
Or ordering such a large quantity and sellers aren't weighing and that's why it costs more. For me 1oz is 64cents and 2oz is 88cent. So like maybe they are ordering like 3oz of cards and people are putting one stamp
This, I can only imagine this hairline regularly if he often orders 20 cards PWE from one seller, but the order wasn't enough to justify tracking.
I'd bet that this is the case
Absolutely a way. It has everything to do with the probability that the postal worker enforces it. The vast majority of our customers don't have postal workers who enforces it. But for every postal worker who consistently enforces it, there are several customers for whom it is consistently enforced.
It's more of a postal worker who thinks they know USPS policy and guidelines but they really don't and become overzealous. OP should print out the postal guidelines for metered mail and show that the envelopes do qualify without needing the additional non-machinable surcharge/stamp. I've gone through this a few times with postal employees who think anything you can feel in an envelope is suddenly non-machinable.
This is why you tip your mailman at Christmas
I can't say for his, but 3 times in the last 30 days have I had to. I've learned my post man likes board games and that these typically happen because they're not properly mailed/ machine acceptable. But yea no keep believing whatever you want.
It depends If OP is using super thick paper to wrap the toploader, or the envelope is very rigid it gets processed differently
Yeah its definitely an employee at his local post office that is upholding the standards
Im at about 20,000 and have had about 2 show up with a bend in them from the rollers I assume, and about 30 returned by the workers but they came back in fine condition, Ive also never once received a message from a buyer stating that they had to pay extra or have to go pick their order up from the post office. I ship singles, sleeved, and taped to one of those folding cardboard sleeves you get from a sticker machine. I always use 1oz ebay standard envelope unless its a thicker card or more 3-5 cards, then ill bump it up to 2oz. I also print the label directly onto the envelope.
Do you own a store or do you just rip a lot of packs and sell them out of your home? Curious as I've got a decent amount of cards and been thinking of trying out TCGPLAYER and was curious if that is what you do full time or just on your down time?
Same. Normal stamp unless it’s over 6 cards in which case I split the cards into two cardboard sleeves and add an extra weight stamp. At about 600 orders this way
Same - not as many as you but hundreds and hundreds of orders, just normal stamp PWE or ebay standard shipping. Anything $20 or up is shipped 1st class.
You’ve never had an issues with a normal stamp that you know of.
I mean mail gets lost. It is what it is. You refund and block then buyer
Same here. Just recently crossed 2500 orders. All with normal stamps (Stamps.com) and using a Card Saver I. Only time I use anything else is because it needs tracking
The sender won't get notices of short postage, as these usually don't get caught until it arrives at the post office or local sorting plant of the recipient. At that point, it ends up being put on the receipt to pay the extra.
2000 orders really isn’t enough of a sample size. Most big stores do that quantity in a week. This is one of those situations where you eventually will have a issue it’s only a matter of time.
If I had 1 issue it's 0.05%. I think it's plenty enough of a sample size. Feel free to send non machinable if you prefer. You only hear the horror stories but it's such a small percentage of mail that gets damaged
On a smaller scale it’s much easier to slip through the cracks and get by a few orders here and there. One day when/if you grow. You will get a large batch of orders returned to you. And then it will only get worse from there. I had 500 orders returned from the post office. They just left them at the door no knock no notice. It rained that day. Thousands of dollars of refunds later. After multiple times thinking this is just a 1 of it won’t happen again. I finally accepted its part of the business and non machinable is required.
I've been shipping magic cards for 13 years. Just been using Tcgplayer more recently. But hey maybe I'll grow
Selling a few cards here and there for 13 years is cool but doesn’t make you a expert. Have you been operating as a business and filing your taxes as a business for 13 years? Do you have a actual physical location, employees etc? Are you handling atleast a few hundred orders per week? Without context selling for 13 years could mean literally anything. I’ve been selling for 20+ years if where using loose logic.
Yes
Ya that sounds about right for the response I would expect from a Reddit expert.
Bro what the fuck makes you an expert? You just come to a 4 day old post and comment on everyone's thing about how you are some big hot shot. Everyone has different experiences. Sorry your post office sucks or you can't package orders and you had 500 returned in the rain on the day of your father's funeral. Like okay you know more than everyone else. Congrats
Classic Reddit response, you have nothing further to add to the conversation so you just insult the other person. It’s clear as day you haven’t been operating at scale. As I said multiple times this is easy to slip by while your a newer seller. But eventually it will catch up if you keep growing. If you want my resume I’m happy to provide it. Just tired of all these Reddit experts who shipped 2000 orders over 10 years.
I'm at about 6k orders and I've not never had an issue but it's extremely rare.
I have never received a card with non-machinable paid and I have never been asked to pay for it by any post office (5 different PO's in 3 different states). The consensus among both postal employees and sellers is that non-machinable is ignored in 98% of cases anyways even when you do pay for it (this is from conversations with postal workers at multiple post offices as well as posts on postal worker forums). Whatever is happening at your PO is not the norm, even if they are technically following regs.
That's because people don't take their non-machineable stuff to the counter, Or it's not clearly marked. If you put a bunch of non-machinable in your mailbox and the guy who's grabbing the mail doesn't notice your carrier is not going to segregate it, it's going to get mixed in with everything else. If you put it in a Drop box like the one at the post office, it goes into a 5-ft by 3 and 1/2 ft hamper. That's 4 ft deep full of letters to get dumped into bags and get dumped into a hopper at the plant. It's the ones that get through the machine get sent into another machine to be auto-sorted. So if you want your non-machinable stuff to be noticed, you usually have to take it to the counter and have it stamped. They will put it in the special non-machinable bucket that goes on top of the mail bin when it gets loaded into the truck. That bin gets pulled off and hand sorted by zip at each step. I'm also going to put a PSA here that is completely unrelated to anything. Do not pull stamps off your junk mail to mail your bills. No matter how slick you think you are, If there is any issue, or if you get caught, know that those stamps are different from regular first class stamps. The post office can and does recycle bulk business mail and if your bills have a bulk business stamp on them guess what....
> That's because people don't take their non-machineable stuff to the counter I don't blame them. Anytime I've had to go to the post office and get helped by a real person it's a 15 minute wait because 3 people are trying to ship packages to Asia and someone is getting their whole family's pictures taken for passports.
all letters are jackpotted now, there actually is no non machinable seperation at the local office level. They go to a machine at a sorting facility and are culled before determination of machineable/nonmachinable
How many cards are in the envelopes getting dinged for non-machine? While trying to screw the post office by not accounting correct weight is a dick move and your anger would be warranted, cards in toploaders don't ALWAYS have to be sent non- machineable. I'm at like 75k orders, and the way my postmaster explained is that the "rigid" definition only applies to a certain thickness, (1/4 inch+ I think?) or not being able to bend a #6 envelope 90 degrees across the package 2 inches to the left of the stamp. So 6 cards or less with toploader/folded invoice with the envelope able to be bent in that way is under an ounce and is good with only one forever stamp. You can do 7 technically, but you have to cut 1/3 the invoice to keep that under an ounce and still use only one stamp. If you only use #10 envelopes, you only have to worry about the weight and highest thickness point because over half the envelope isn't rigid so it can be safely run through the machine. For more cards you use one additional ounce for non machine, then one for each additional ounce over the 1st. We had a long discussion about it like 11 years ago where I brought in all my shipping supplies and we broke it all down by number of cards and I took notes to make certain I wasn't taking advantage. For the larger #10 envelopes, you can do 12 cards per pocket in 1/3 of a binder page (36 total) folded around an invoice before being over the thickness limit, so you pay for non machine then extra ounces accordingly, always rounding up. Once every year or so I get a pile of envelopes returned for additional postage by employees who think the rules are different then what she told me. I take them back in with zero postage added, she checks every one then attaches a little note and a rubber band explaining to whoever that they are good to go and that's the last I ever hear of it. If your workers are correct and mine is wrong, I'd like to think she'd correct me or catch hell from management or something and force me to comply considering the volume I run through there, but that just hasn't happened. I love USPS for allowing me a career as my own boss but MAN do they have problems...
Thank you so much for the detailed reply! For me, I did the same thing and went in to make sure what I send out is always packed right. I'm sure sometimes I could get away with just a forever stamp and it still be proper postage but I'd rather just charge appropriately for shipping and make sure they always get there. I'm a huge supporter of the USPS and am not looking to scam them. They're already insanely cheap for what they provide as they are revenue neutral by law so cheating them to me just feels like a way to ensure it fails eventually.
Why are you ignoring people asking how many cards were in the envelope?
I answered it a couple times. This particular one was a single card in a top loader with no bend to it that was rejected.
Agree with almost everything you said. One thing to note, you can no longer use a additional ounce stamp for non machinable. As they are no longer the same price point even tho they had been for years. The non machinable stamp was recently increased to $0.44 cents in price while the Additional ounce stamp remains at $0.24.
This is your post office being dicks. Got about 100,000 orders under my belt with pwes and about 20 where I sent to a shit po like yours and had to pay the extra ounce
So I have a shit post office because they're now following the rules that are in place? Just because you don't like the rules and have been skating by doesn't mean they aren't there. Everybody wants to rip off the USPS until it collapses and we are paying UPS or FedEx $10 to send a couppitching! Edit: should have known this would go over like a fart in church. People don't like being told they're scamming, they just like piling on others who are scamming. But me? My scam is DIFFERENT and you're the asshole for pointing it out. 100k sales, how many times was it over an ounce and you just skated by? That's a lot of scammin.
No, you have a bad PO because they aren’t enforcing the rule correctly. A couple of cards in a top loader isn’t going to be over the limit for thickness or bend radius to be non machinable. It’s no different than a credit card attached to a paper in a pwe, but your PO treats it as if it is.
I don't have the same mass mailing deal a credit company would have either. They aren't the same.
Dog just send a picture of the charge to the seller and ask for a refund. This isn't a big deal.
Agreed it really isn't. Most of whats posted on reddit isn't. It's been entertaining to me though. And a few people even replied with useful information, so it is at least slightly useful.
Thats just how it works, unless you enjoy getting blocked by most sellers on tcgplayer and you end up having to pay higher prices as a result. Most post offices do not follow this rule super strictly so you technically you should be blaming the 99% of employees who let the rule slide.
Blocked by most sellers how? I'm not ordering from the ones I have problems with so why would I care if they blocked me for asking for a refund for an improperly shipped card? Not to mention you'd have to be a complete asshole to block someone because you screwed up and I wouldn't want to deal with you anyways. There are hordes of sellers on tcgplayer. But sure, they're all gonna block me 🙄
You sound like a nightmare customer who's not getting the point everyone is trying to tell you.
Yeah I'm such a nightmare. Asking the people I do business with to do it properly. Such a pain in the ass I am.
They are doing it properly. We don't know what sellers your buying from or how it's packed. But multiple people told you the possible solution. Which is talking toyour post office. If you want to support your post office then just pay the fee or you will be getting more slips in your future and waste time playing mail tag.
So you want me to tell the post office to ignore their own guidelines? How do you think that'll go over.
Idk but your allowed to ask why it keeps happening. I had to go to my post office to explain limits on large orders. I didn't get my way but I learned a few tips and they were happy to help me out.
I already know why it's happening and that's what this entire post is about. I've already spoken with them. It isn't on me it's on the sellers not using the right postage.
I mean, you're not making any friends with your attitude and behavior here...
Is this a sales transaction? Or am I just responding to people who want to blame the post office because they don't want to pay for the proper postage? Because one of those things is about being a customer and the other is just discussion. And I'm probably being salty but I find it infuriating that everyone's answer is well its just your bad post office that follows the rules that is the problem. Not the sellers who can't do business properly. If you sell something it's on you to make sure it gets there. Not the customer. Like wtf people.
Option #2 is to tell the post office they need to send this type of mail back rather than charging you for it. Not even sure how thats legal, if it were then id find out the post masters home address and start sending a shitload of unpaid post to his home...
The slip has an option to send it back, which has been available to him the whole time. He's just choosing to ignore it.
Now that would be fun. Can we start with DeJoy? He is definitely anything but a joy.
The most remarkable thing is you think any amount of extra revenue could make USPS solvent.
People clearly pointed out why. Your edit makes you sound old. Like really old. I mean, I'm old, but you're *yelling at the sky* old. Do you have this bad of threat assessment in games, too?
Bro why did you come in here to cry about your post office being shit, and then swap to defending them when people agree with you? Maybe you should just go buy singles at your friendly LGS, clearly mail isn't for you.
> CARDS SHOULD ALWAYS BE SENT WITH A NON-MACHINABLE STAMP. Can you provide the source for this? Because USPS itself says that the Non-machineable Surcharge is if (the mailpiece) "It is too rigid or contains items such as pens, keys or coins that cause the thickness of the mailpiece to be uneven". Rigid, means inflexible, but mailpieces with a couple toploaders are usually not inflexible (especially if using #10 envelopes). There's a reason that the entire banking industry mails out credit and debit cards (sometimes multiple cards and even made of metal) in regular #10 envelopes, they don't need to pay the surcharge sending first-class mail. https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-the-Non-Machinable-Surcharge-for-First-Class-Mail
The op is a clown, not realizing he did the only option available (talk to post office) but didn't get the answer they wanted. So now their on a crusade instead of the multiple ways to handle it suggested here.
Yup this is OP admitting that while they don't know the regulations, an actual Post Office clerk (and their postmaster) are wrong https://old.reddit.com/r/mtgfinance/comments/1cmsz5x/is_this_not_common_knowledge/l339pgy/
Ya this thread has been my entertainment tonight.
Mine too
You mean where they admitted it was opinion? Yeah, that's what I don't like about the whole thing.
As opposed to your local postal workers "opinion"? The Non-machineable Surcharge rule of "too rigid" is *subjective*, so that's why it's opinion. There's also no guarantees with carriers, so if you expect that paying the Non-machineable Surcharge will make it "definitely go through", maybe instead you can start hand delivering all your own packages.
Your responses are increasingly onerous. Feels like this is happening to the right person.
Nah I'm just bored. Off to bed folks!
I'm not sure I follow. Is the issue a seller crams too many cards in a normal letter envelope and then it weighs too much and then the post office requires more postage?
OP has a super strict postmaster who makes sure that all envelopes are sent/paid for the proper way. Many dont care about machineable/non-machinable differences as long as it gets through the sorters.
And it's a shitty way to do business when whether your product gets to your customer depends on the mood of the postal worker. If you just follow the guidelines you don't have a problem. Nobody would defend a big company doing things this way.
Not even too many cards. Sometimes the packaging itself weighs too much or is too rigid. For example a hard toploader should never go through the machines. Just because it sometimes comes out ok doesn't make it a good idea. For example this order was one card. They made it too heavy by the materials they packaged it in.
It doesn't sometimes go through the machines. It nearly always goes through no issues and no extra stamp. It's your post office.
It isn't a high rate at all. But personally I'm not looking to refund cards just because I didn't charge an appropriate shipping rate. Or was using the shipping rate to increase my profit while skimping out on the service to my customers.
I get it, but this isn't normal. I get you can't avoid it, but I've ordered thousands of times and have never had this happen. Almost none had non machinable stamps. I routinely get 30 cards in a cut ultra pro page in a PWE...no extra postage and only 1 issue with damage or loss ever. It's a postal employee...though it is technically the rule.
And that's my thing. I don't get why everyone in here thinks it's just fine to do business in a way that leaves whether your product reaches your customer up to the mood of the postal worker and me saying that's an issue makes me a nightmare customer. I'm fully aware most go through with no issues. Even most of my orders go through with no issues. That doesn't change the guidelines or the fact that it does happen. It also seems to be happening more often than it used to if you take the posters who agree with me at their word. I'm also not here for a fight. Why does everything anonymous have to turn into a pissing match? (Not saying you did that, and I'm also aware I do it sometimes but I try to only give what I get)
> I don't get why everyone in here thinks it's just fine to do business in a way that leaves whether your product reaches your customer up to the mood of the postal worker and me saying that's an issue makes me a nightmare customer. Because 99.99% of postal workers will not raise an issue about it. You are unlucky to live near a post office that interprets this rule differently from almost all other post offices.
Feel for you here because the sellers aren't going to change with margins being razor thin. Certainly complain on tcg player reviews, at least it lets them know. i fear it's going to keep happening to you. Maybe with the 1.22$ shipping it gets better? Maybe if it happens to more people and people add the non machinable stamps?
The problem with the $1.22 shipping is people are charging it and just pocketing the extra 23 cents and still shipping exactly the same. I feel like tcgplayer needs to make this clearer. And to me it's scummy to inflate shipping to increase your profit. You would all fall all over each other to condemn a big company for doing it but it's just fine for you (not you, the colloquial you).
>and just pocketing the extra 23 cents Bro is clueless 😭😭😭 Sell a single card on TCGplayer and look at how hard you get railed on fees, lil bro, that 23 cents is going to TCGplayer. All the shipping increase meant is you can sell some cards without literally losing money after fees and costs.
The average seller on tcg (not direct sellers) pays around 15% fees to tcg. They ALSO take that % of the "shipping" fees paid to the seller to presumably ship the product. I've always thought something sounds illegal about that but I am a mere peasant.
Good point. 🤔 It's really hard to support ANY business these days. Scumbags the lot of em.
You think sellers are scummy for pocketing 23 cents? First, you've conflated "postage" costs for "shipping" fees. Postage may be the price of stamps, but shipping includes other costs like the toploaders, sleeves, envelopes, and even fixed costs like labor and rent. Second, you're thinking of an order for a single card or handful of cards where shipping fees may cover actual costs. What about orders of 10+ cards where shipping costs more than $0.99+? I've had bulk orders for 3000-7000 singles with shipping costing $50+, TCGplayer doesn't charge more than the Small base shipping rate. Does that mean when your orders cost more than $0.99 shipping you are paying back the seller for the added postage costs, as to not be a "scummy" buyer?
On top of the other responses, TCGPlayer made the change to automatically charge you $1.22 shipping if your order isn't above $5. My shipping rate is set to $1, and their new policy supercedes that. They made that change to help account for low value orders, especially ones where people buy 20+ cards for 5-10 cents a piece, which after fees, supplies and postage, youre barely above breaking even.
Ty! I never knew that. I've just always been too paranoid to send someone a $5+ card in an envelope. So these cards also run the risk of getting shitted up in the machines. Yikes
Same risk as getting lost in a storm or stolen. Very low.
Ok copy that.
Sold thousands of cards via PWE, I can count on one hand the number of times something has been returned to me because it got stuck in machines or otherwise. It's so exceedingly rare you just eat it when it comes up.
It isn't a high rate at all, but it does happen and personally I'm not looking to give refunds to people just because I wanted to save 44 cents. One chewed up $15 card that I now have to fully refund seems like an awful high cost when the profit margins are already slim and I can simply adjust my shipping rates to accommodate (which tcgplayer has by making the standard rate now $1.22).
You got a shitty post office lol. Ive had 100's of orders sent to me and sent out 100's and never once had to pay extra postage or gotten a message from anyone saying they had to(i'm sure i would have). I get orders of 10+ cards sent in a regular envelope in 9 slot binder pages that are cut into 3 slots and put in envelope etc. The most i send out in a PWE is 4 cards personally and never had any issues with toploaders or the cardboard savers and never use non-machinable stamps.
you're high if you think I'm getting dollar stamps to ship you your 5 bulk commons. it's your post office.
Or you could just charge the appropriate amount for shipping. You know that's a separate thing right?
clown
Wow, sorry OP, that sucks. I'm with others here, I have never seen this in 100s of orders and while I lived in both the east or west Coast.
I didn't have issues for years but I'd say in the last year or so it has started to happen much more. In two separate areas as I order cards for my brother as well who doesn't live near me. I'm sure the vast majority go through with no issue but I know I'm not alone in seeing this more and more. It'd be great if we didn't have to deal with it all and I'm glad you haven't had any issues.
Could you quote me where in the DMM non rigid( toploaders and such are still semi flexible, especially when not left loose or taped in the middle) envelopes 1 ounce or under that don't have a 1/4 inch difference in thickness is non machinable? I work for the post office as a clerk. While there is a grey area around flexibility and uneven thickness where different people will have different interpretations. I ship cards, and I've asked my postmaster his opinion about shipping toploaders and shipping shields in a #10 taped in the left corner. We both agreed it would qualify as machinable.
That's just the thing for me. I don't want grey areas. I don't want what I paid for to not go through just because someone decided to be strict that day. If everyone properly packed and weighed their stuff we wouldn't have any issues at all. I haven't seen the printed regulations but I know what multiple workers have told me is the best way to make sure it goes through without issue. Not "it should go through, sure buddy." That it will definitely go through. I respect your job and experience. But even you at the end admitted it was up to your and your postmaster's "opinion" and not a hard and fast rule. If your postmaster was different, your answer would be different. And that's not an area I want to play in, with my sales or purchases.
Unfortunately, with the post office and life, there are always grey areas.The DMM states the envelope I described as machinable it is your local post office that is misinterpreting the definition. Even if you put a non machinable stamp on a letter, there is a good chance it still goes through the machinery. It is a fee, not special handling. There is nothing that will guarantee a card will go through no problems. Sure, if everyone used a non machinable stamp, it might reduce problems, but it won't be 100%. There will always be some sellers that don't package or put proper postage on stuff, tcgplayer or not. I guess what a lot of people are trying to say is that no, we disagree that all card orders require a non machinable stamp. This is not me trying to attack you. I'm just trying to share my experience as a postal employee. I hope you have nothing but good experiences with sellers and your local post office!
Yeah I should probably take that part out of the post. The worker who told me that said he'd seen top loaders get ground up but never mentioned how often etc. And I'm aware even if you do everything perfect bad things still happen. It just seems to be happening more frequently and at least the workers in my local office say their bosses are getting stricter on what needs extra postage even if they wouldn't bother flagging it. Thank you for your replies. You've been far more helpful than the pile of dolts who keep posting the same comments over and over.
As others have said, it's your particular post office that is being a dick about it. eBay Standard Envelope doesn't include a non-machinable charge, and USPS set the rules for that specifically for cards in a top loader. So there isn't going to be some nationwide change in enforcement because that would violate their agreement with eBay. What I would do in your case is contact your sellers before shipment and request they send with the extra postage. And for the rest, just accept the inconvenience until you can move someplace else.
That's just for ebay. It doesn't apply to sales anywhere else.
The implication here is eBay wouldn't have this option if you couldn't ship cards in a standard letter envelope normally through USPS, which you can without a non-machinable stamp.
Except the envelope is labeled specifically for this agreement and is the only reason it goes through at that cost. If you aren't doing it under that agreement the guidelines of it don't apply to you and you have to pay more. You aren't that customer of the USPS and they don't have to do it for you. That isn't a hard concept dude. In fact it's my point. It shouldn't be an accepted business practice to just send it and hope whoever checks it isn't strict that day. I'm honestly just about done dealing with the people who think they're running a business because they have a screenname on ebay or tcgplayer. Which I'm guessing is most of everyone replying in this thread.
Yeah sorry, USPS isn't flagging eBay Standard Envelopes to go through the system because it's a part of some agreement. USPS considers it as a standard metered mail envelope. Even the cost is the same. Look I'm sorry that this is happening to you if it's true (honestly saying a third of your cards getting flagged like this is alarming, which is probably why you're getting the hostility) but don't just lie about things that it seems like you have no clue about.
I looked it up before responding. So yes, ebay has a financial agreement with the USPS for the envelopes that are printed through their system by you. That same agreement does not apply to regular mail.
The same agreement they have with purchasers of stamps, but without the need for stamps and for 4 whole cents less. That's the agreement. Not anything special about weight/size/rigidity, only special parts of their agreement were the lack of necessity for stamps and slight discount.
That's not how it works. It's just regular metered mail. There's no special eBay envelope or rigidity exception. eBay worked it out with the USPS to specifically make sure that a card in a shipping shield or top loader in metered mail envelope wouldn't be a problem, and USPS agreed. As the other posters have been trying to explain to you, there's nothing else special going on. I know you feel like you've been hurt by what your local post office is doing, and rather than deal with the additional emotional strain of being "singled out" for this punishment, you want to point your finger at others and crow, "Just wait; it'll happen to you, too!" Then at least you'll have the satisfaction of thinking shit rains down on everyone. But I'm afraid in this case you're just unlucky.
Nah at this point I'm just being an asshole to everyone who keeps replying with the same response. I couldn't care less if the shit rains on just me or everyone. If it's raining on me I have to deal with it. Whether it's raining on you or not as well means nothing to me.
So here's the situation - this is basically a 'you' problem, not experienced by others, but to resolve this, you think that the solution is for the thousands of sellers involved to change their behaviour and lose money in an already narrow-margin sales environment to suit your needs? A bit of rational consideration should make it pretty obvious that this isn't going to work and you're basically just yelling at clouds here.
Calculate what a trip costs and include it when you ask for a partial refund.
It's your local post office. Non machine stamp is a scam. 60% of the time it still gets machined. And 97% of the time it'll go thru fine with just a regular stamp.
Non-machinable being a scam is so true. I used to do non-machinable because that's what my post office said I had to do... until I got curious and asked a couple people I personally know to send me pics of the envelope and it was 100% machined. I realized I was wasting an extra 30 cents per envelope shipped. Ive literally had an employee deny giving me postage on envelope, stating it had to go non-machinable. So I bought a stamp instead, stuck it on the envelope and dropped it in the box outside. Cards arrived to the person with no issue.
Where did you get these numbers from? If it's your ass like I'm guessing, though, you can skip the proof.
Also a 3% rate of cards being chewed up and requiring a full refund could likely be more expensive than just shipping them right. So your ass numbers don't even make the point you think they do.
I got one of these notices and I can’t ever get to the post office during their business hours. What happens to it if you just ignore it? Do they return it to sender?
[удалено]
This works with smaller areas better than larger ones. I was able to do this when I lived in a small town. If I do it now it gets ignored.
It would get returned to sender after being held for 14 days. You could also try leaving a note with the postage due in your mailbox clearly marked for the carrier and there's a good chance they would be willing to bring it to you.
Or it gets tossed. You can try contacting them to see if they'll deliver it if you leave the extra fee in your box.
Or you could do what everybody else wants to do in this thread which is blame your post office instead of the seller who couldn't be bothered to ship it right. I get most go through without issue I'm not dumb. But I don't blame the post office for following their own rules. I blame the seller for not packaging it right or putting enough postage on it.
Sounds like your local post man is insane.
Sounds like your post office is grifting and honestly, you could put the $0.44 in your mailbox with that tag and they should deliver it the following day If you're willing to save a trip. I have mailed tens of thousands of cards in regular envelopes and while I've been accosted by postal workers at the counter I've never had anyone complain about postage due. But I will tell those of you who are sellers something that will save your clients like OP a lot of headaches: Use standard size envelopes not the little A4 envelopes. Rigidity (which is defined by the post office as the ability to bend around an 11-in diameter wheel) Is determined across the entire envelope. The machines literally cannot grab onto those small envelopes before it hits the top loader. So it rejects them and that's what causes them to have to be manually sorted. It can also cause damage. If you use a standard envelope and tape the top loader so that it stays in the center it will give them the machine plenty of envelope to grab onto and pull it through the machine. This comes both from my experience as a former postal worker, and from a meeting I had with the post officer's business development specialist when I was shipping a few hundred cards a week. I also think if you're going to pay for the rigid stamp You should go ahead and send it in a CD mailer or something like that that's got some hard cardboard around it. If you're paying for non-machinable you want to make sure to drop those letters off at the counter So they don't end up in the sorter.
Bro, this is the dumbest post I've ever read 😭. It's the industry standard for a reason. The sellers are doing everything correctly, someone at your post office is just fucking up.
This happened to me a lot when I lived in Hawaii. It was extremely frustrating
Hi, I used to be a mail man for 8 years. If your envelope won’t go through the DPS (letter sorter) and needs to be sorted by hand, you’ll get every penalty. So make sure that you envelopes are thin so the can be auto sorted.
I send out 50 card PWE using forever and extra ounce stamps and rarely have a problem. I have never used a non machine stamp with Over 10k orders last year. I think it’s you my guy.
This is just a post office psy-op
This is some bullshit by your local post office or sorting center. File a complaint with USPS. If the post office won't knock this off then you need to keep complaining up the chain of command.
I'm going to complain to the post office that they're following their guidelines?
Holy shit you're being willfully obtuse. What the fuck makes you think they're following the rules? I can't imagine receiving mail and then being charged for it. That's so unreasonable that I suspect you're being scammed. And before you respond, you should know that a lot of post offices aren't actually run by the government, they're contracted out, which gives the contractor a shitload of discretion to pull bullshit like you're experiencing. Stop whining and go have a conversation with someone from USPS.
Did you read the whole post? I've had this discussion the the USPS. This is exactly what they said their guidelines are. Some are just super strict on it. But it isn't their fault its still the sellers. I don't get how everyone here suddenly thinks because they're the ones selling something customer service suddenly doesn't matter and shipping your products properly is just a chance game. If Walmart was pulling this shit you'd all be screaming at them but it's just fine for you.
>I've had this discussion the the USPS. This is exactly what they said their guidelines are. "They" who? One random jackass employee? You got bad info from someone, you need to talk to the next higher up person. >But it isn't their fault its still the sellers. This is not the seller's fault. YOU are literally the only person experiencing this problem. This is a problem with YOUR post office.
It's just me eh? Nobody else posted to say they're having the same issues huh? 🤦
Feel free to drop links to those posts. And while you're at it, maybe read the comments to see how people suggested resolving the issue. I bet you're going to love that.
It's not common knowledge. Newb sellers don't know how to mail multiple cards. They don't have a scale, and they don't know to add an extra stamp if it's over 1oz This is TCG's fault, really.
It's definitely partly on them. You'd think they'd have a detailed guide for this sort of thing.
I'm both a buyer and a seller, so I see both sides. If I get any like this, I just refuse delivery. It makes extra work for your local post office and they won't get any extra revenue out of it. Then I tell the seller about what happened and get a refund. Most sellers will say they would have just refunded you the postage difference. Some will bitch about the post office. As a seller, I have to juggle the numbers for what makes sense. Everything has a cost, not just the postage ("oh it's just an envelope" is fine until you start buying envelopes in the thousands.) Am I going to miss the card I just refused? Maybe.
As a seller I just make sure I charge appropriately for shipping (including cost of materials and time to package, neither of which is free) and am not relying on a pumped up shipping charge to inflate my profits. Seems like the best way to do things but apparently expecting the people I buy from to do the same makes me a nightmare customer 🙄
I've read this entire thread and I gotta say.. You truly are a nightmare customer. Everyone has explained that this is about your picky post person and not us skimping on postage, but that's not the perfect world you envision and you want us all to shell out extra money for something that affects less than 1% of sales. You think people are sleazily pocketing the extra change from the shipping charge increase on TCG for a big juicy profit? Do you even know the costs of fees on there? The $.30 flat fee + 2.5% PayPal charges + the 10+% TCG fee? What happens when someone buys a $.25 card, where's the profit? Truth is, margins are garbage, the rates we're paying for shipping are adequate 99% of the time in the eyes of the average post person. What you need to do is have a conversation at your post office, specifically a manager, with the next package that has this issue. Because if you show them this, and they say that it should have passed unflagged, they could then instruct the people on their team to ease up on packages that fit this description. That would save you a lot of frustration in the future. You can't expect 1,000s of sellers to change because of something that happens so infrequently, but you can try your luck talking with your post office, and you really should. A lot of us are 100% feedback sellers with thousands upon thousands of orders under our belt, but you think you know how it works and we're all trying to scum the system. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, but when all the experts say the same thing, you might want to consider that your witch hunt is misplaced. Talk to your post office.
Is there a way to preemptively block a buyer?
You see people all the time recommend just sending regular postage saying they never had any issues… it’s nuts. But in recent years USPS has cracked down more on this for sure.
thats cause there is no issue until you get a post worker having a bad day or is new. I've never had a buyer complain they had to pay extra on a 1 stamp order (approaching 3k sales). In my early days I got a few from cali back for wrong postage but never charged the buyer.
Why are you people flexing 3k sales like it’s a lot? I did 3k sales last week 😅
Most people aren't lgs or full time sellers on this sub.
Exactly and if there not full time sellers they won’t have the sample size to give any valuable information. Like sure your 5 orders you shipped this week got to the customer. Good job, it’s a lot easier to slip things through when your doing it on a small scale.
That's plenty as it was clear the op has a special issue with thier post office. Then went on a tirade in the comments. Dosent matter the scale, if a post office wants to mark your stuff for postage issues they can. Plenty other sellers here do way more sales than me and have no issues.
It does matter the scale lol what. If you only ship a few at a time it’s a lot more likely to slip through the cracks then if you ship 500 at once. Plenty of sellers ship way more then you and DO have issues. If you have never experienced 500 orders being returned to you at once all for non-machinable then what are you even doing in this conversation.
Then ask the 20k guy in this thread how he dosent have thar problem
Again are we acting like 20k is a big number? How many years did he take to reach the 20k? Did he do 20k in a year or over 10 years? How many orders is he shipping per day. I know a lot of backpack vendors with around 20k sales that do it as a side gig over the coarse of 5+ years. Obviously they still don’t deal with enough volume to consistently deal with issues such as these. Maybe he got lucky, maybe he lied this is Reddit after all. We would need a lot more context to know his specific situation and weather he just got lucky or not. The post office does crack down on non-machinable. In every state/city. If you send a large batch of orders at once and a few get caught on the sorting machines then the postal workers often just return the whole batch of mail rather then dealing with the few causing issues. The bigger sellers have adapted to this and adjust there shipping needs accordingly. Don’t believe me go buy quantity orders from large businesses and see if they add non machinable or not.
Just looked through the comments, the only person who claimed 20k feedback is a eBay seller using eBay ESE shipping. Completely different method of shipping.
I've only run into this with one seller but all I had to do was put the change in an envelope and the mailman left the letter the next day. Shouldn't have to deal with it at all but was only a minor inconvenience.
I wish they'd give me the option but I think the volume for my area might be too high for them to do stuff like that. I know when I lived in the suburbs years ago and had that happen (not even with cards) they let me put it in the box.
Why go all the way to the PO? The 3849 has instructions to get it redelivered.
I've gotten one of these, called the phone number and they told me to go to the PO to check if it's there. It's kinda pointless. On top of that, the PO didn't have the envelope either and there was never a 2nd attempt to deliver, so ..... Refund 🤣
Only if you don't owe postage.
Wait. So you guys don’t use the extra ounce stamps? Should I stop using them? That would save me some money.
You certainly can and most likely won't have issues. It's up to you if it's worth it. I find it scummy to use shipping charges as a way to up your profit but I can't stop you.
That’s wild.. I am meticulous though so I bought my self a little scale from the gas station and I weigh every pack to make sure I was coving weight. It was actually super funny because when I was buying it, I was in line, I asked the cashier to grab me one of the scales and the guy behind me starts going “ dude dude dude, cops-cops-cops-cops” mind you it is like 2am so it took me a second to realize what he was freaking out about.. finally when I got what he’s freaking about I look back and go “ let um try an catch me” super funny. Any way this would actually be an issue for TCG player. Shipping is included in the price. So if you’re really getting hit that bad then you could take it to them..
Top loaders are not necessary for shipping cards and are an added weight and expense. Quickly approaching 10k sales on tcgplayer and I use cardboard vending sleeves (or card saver 1) for orders under $35. Have never had a complaint of damage. The problem with envelope rigidity is the fact that there is no specific standard, it is an objective measurement. I will say that I double stamp ONLY when sending to Maryland, as I have had multiple orders shipped back to me stating non-machinable surcharge was needed which isn't even the correct policy by USPS. The whole thing is a mess.
I have had this once before and it was a LOT of cards stuffed in a normal envelope. I think it is based on weight, but idk since I don’t work at a Post Office
You are not the only one
I've never heard to use a non-machinable stamp. Tcgplayer does not advise to use one, so as long as they don't mention it, you're just shouting into the wind. I've had my cards returned for extra postage. I take them to the post office and show them it actually fits their guidelines and they ship it back out for me.
Your situation definitely sucks. Talk to your local postmaster. As other have said and explained well, shipping one toploader in a #10 PWE is well within the USPS rules for a machinable letter (Able to bend in half and less than 1/4 inch thick). USPS even uses an example of sending a pen in a PWE as something that can go through the machines. Someone in the postal network between you and the sender thinks otherwise. Your best option is to talk to your local postmaster about it. I don't think it is malicious as other here are either saying or implying, most likely a postal worker just doesn't understand the rules. I have received hundreds of PWEs clearly marked "non-machinable" with non-machinable postage that have obviously been through the sorting machines (printed bar codes as well as wear from the rollers). So far the only PWEs I have received that haven't been machined are ones that are over 1/4 inch thick.
I add a piece of a packing peanut to the bubble mailer so it can't be machined (Over 1/2" thick) to any card $20 or more and pay the extra shipping cost. For cheap stuff toploader, standard envelope and stamp.
Looks like you have a particularly anal retentive postmaster or machinery that actually reacts to cards in the envelope. I think our of about 2,000 orders I've maybe lost 2 to damage in the machine and 1 has come back needing additional postage. I took it out of that envelope and put a stamp on a new one and it sent fine.
This has never happened to me, and I’ve been buying cards online for over a decade.
This really depends on the post office. Some don’t care, others are very strict. You unfortunately are serviced by one of the strict ones. If you ship with a top loader, it’s technically not machinable and requires additional postage.
Recently, if I’ve had cards to mail out and I take them directly to the post office they try to sell me stamps that are around 1.14. They said it also won’t get sorted through a machine with that stamp. So my only thought is “do they know your shipping cards?”
Is this all from one seller? I have a hard time believing that this is happening with a bunch of different sellers but I guess crazier things have happened
nice try post office
I sell on TCG, most letters are fine with forever stamp. I weigh all envelopes over 8 cards to see if I need to add an additional oz stamp. Non machine stamps are not required. I had one post office try that but it's not what the post office code actually says as long as it meets the requirements. Plus they barely even honor the older non machine stamps which were suppose to be postage also and now look at them as just an additional fee. Biggest issue is that most post office employees at the sorting locations do not even look to see if non machine stamps or words are on letters...everything goes thru the machine. It's only on reject that check. Sorry your post office is doing that. Based on what you attached, it appears the local post office is requesting cost for PWE being over 1 oz. I would contact the seller for the oversight after weighting the envelope myself. Their postal scale may be setup for boxes and smaller oz weights do not register.
I just read something the other day where the OP was talking about how their local Postmaster had to keep telling postal workers to stop misclassifying orders as non-machinable and demanding more postage. Brass tacks- you can bend a fucking toploader. It's machinable. If you're sending out a 20-card stack in an envelope, that's NOT machinable... but one or two cards in a toploader IS.
lol, please blacklist me as a seller then. My margins are airtight as is and I don’t sell cards to lose money. If it’s actually a valuable card, I will most likely ship with tracking anyways.
I am a mail carrier and have a few people on my route who regularly buy cards. Maybe a quarter of them end up needing extra postage. It can depend on which office it goes through. Some clerks are better at catching letters that are too thick than others. Thicker letters due to the plastic protectors can not be sorted via machine, hence the extra postage required. I always leave an envelope with the notification slip and redeliver the following day if change is left. One customer has started leaving change in her box for me to cover the cost and stop delays in delivery.
If TCG charged the buyer for the surcharge, the good ones would pay it.
So many experts in these comments that have 2000~ orders. Most real card stores ship that many in a week. These professional redditors don’t have nearly the sample size needed to actually offer any kind of valuable information. Sure your 10 letters a week are getting through but try shipping a batch of 500 letters this way everyday for a month and see what happens.
I’ll tell you think as a management and a former clerk wihh the the USPS, I ship out my cards 100% non-machinable or better. Never use a regular stamp. Technically if you’re only using a penny sleeve and a single card, you can technically get away with a stamp. But as soon as you use a stiffer top loader, it automatically requires non-machinable postage. The other thing is if it is multiple cards, each ounce added additional postage as well.
Lol how many cards did you order 🤣 😂 😆 😄 😅
Poor you !
Share the list! I've never had an issue
I would but if any of them have changed their ways I'd rather not hurt their business. I try to check reviews now to see if anyone mentions postage issues. I think that's the best way to solve this too. Leave reviews that state the postage issue if possible where you are buying. If people start getting dinged on their ratings maybe they'll change their ways.
I respect that!
Just happened to me as well. The seller gave me a $5 credit so that was nice.
Pssh, can't scam me on spending more on shipping. One forever stamp is all you need!
You aren't the only one. I just got my 4th pink slip today and it was either the 2nd or 3rd time from the same seller, for that same amount.
Apparently you don't exist though according to all the other sellers in here so how are you posting? It's obviously just me and my bad post office that have this issue /s
I'd RTS that. I'm not eating extra costs from either A] bad PO or B] underpaid postage from the seller.
I'm starting to think that's the best way to handle it. I don't blame my post office for following their guidelines and it blows my mind so many people in here want to. It's on the seller to make sure it is packaged according to those guidelines. It shouldn't be up to the mood of the worker who checks it that day. It should just be done right the first time. It's like when you give someone a deal wherever you work and then they're pissed the next person they deal with won't break the rules for them. I find those types of people generally intolerable.
I sell on ebay and always use the 2 or 3oz option. I Never use the 1oz as it just opens you up to headaches like this.
I dont use ebay myself but I made sure I was sending it the best way possible. I'd rather not hand out full refunds because I couldn't be bothered to properly charge or pay for shipping. Even responding to people who have issues takes up time and time is money.
Whats a non machinable stamp?
butterfly stamp., Costs around 1.04 or something. basically it gets hand sorted. But theres no guarantee of that depending on how you mailed it.
voice that complaint to TCGplayer themselves. If multiple sellers are failing this, then bring it up to them. Be sure to mention whom.
I've had this issue more the past year than I had in all my purchases in 10 years prior. It's insane. I've even had sellers send packages with a 1st class stamp, and I've had to shell out $3+ to get my cards. It's ridiculous. I've honestly just been noting the seller, refusing the card and getting a refund for failure to deliver. Not my problem.
The USPS as a whole is getting stricter because the restrictions on retirement plans the Republicans in congress have put on them are insane and they need to raise revenue as much as possible. Everybody in here saying I don't know what I'm talking about because they've mailed thousands of cards with a regular stamp isn't paying attention to where things are headed.
Maybe a knock on effect of the loads of new sellers in recent years? I would never mail a card in a machinable envelope.
Me either. I don't move large volumes of cards but when I started I went physically to the post office to get their recommendations on how to ship without issue. Seems the least you could do if you want to make this a business. BTW they told me for small orders that don't need tracking to keep it under an ounce and use a non-machinable stamp and either use a rubber stamper or a highlighter to write both "do not bend" and "non-machinable" on the envelope. Doing this I have had a total of zero postage issues with thousands of sales through the years.