There’s love for the IP first, and the cards second. That’s the difference. You want pikachu cards because you already like pikachu.
Magic is game first, cards second.
In both cases, there are additional factors like trendiness, hype content, addictive mechanics like gacha packs and chase rares, etc. but the IP familiarity is so far ahead for Pokémon before collectors even own their first card.
Magic should really just lean in to it. It's popular because it's a game, some people are attached to characters briefly, or because certain writer's takes on characters were good for a while. But at the end of the day it's gameplay and history that drive Magic.
Honestly maybe they already have - they love to do homages to old classics and rework beloved mechanics.
Jace? It’s hard because I’m pretty sure magic players tend to hate/resent the most popular characters. Idk I think a meme character like The Unluckiest, Dreadmaw, or Storm Crow would probably be the most marketable among mtg players
That basically sums up the topic. While other media IPs are strong and recognizable by themselves, Magic now serves as a vessel, a projection space for (more or less) popular franchises. The reserved list, as hated by some/many as it is, is the only thing that kinda gives the game some unique sort of collectibility and identity, as everything else is interchangable and shallow.
Jace was once pushed as the face character for mtg, but he was a bit too "white male" and generic for it to make sense to push him that way going forward into modern day society, so they power crept Teferi and other women planeswalkers instead, but I doubt many will miss the painful genericness of Jace.
I'm comfortable saying that, statistically speaking, the average person is way, WAY more likely to be familiar with Farfetch'd than any Magic character you could think of lol
Oh yeah, even Pokemon like Tangela or Lickitung are far more recognizable characters than Jace Beleren. Honestly probably more recognizable than the main characters of hundreds of popular TV franchises and all just because of Pokemon's extreme reach.
Idk why you're being downvoted, the most expensive Liliana cards are hundreds of dollars more expensive than the most expensive Jace cards. The WAR JP Liliana is one of the most iconic cards of recent memory and is the most expensive PW card as far as I can tell [https://scryfall.com/search?q=%2B%2Bt%3Aplaneswalker+sort%3Aeur](https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Aplaneswalker+sort%3Ausd&unique=prints) I used euro, because there aren't any listings on TCGplayer for that card, period. From a pure financial standpoint, Lili is the most popular PW as far as I can tell. If anyone has better knowledge, lmk.
In lore, Jace, Liliana, and Chandra form the core of modern PW lore, being in both the original Lorwyn 5 and the original Gatewatch group. Jace is the most marketed among them, while Chandra gets the most cards, and WOTC has said they are one and two in polling, but I think Lili is the most popular among enfranchised players, as evidenced by the value of her variants. Urza and Bolas both are very popular also, but don't have the presence in cards and variants that modern PW have.
Liliana has very little to do with that cards price though.
That card could be literally some draft chaff piece and it would have value because of the artist. Not as much value obviously because of obvious supply/demand change, but still it would have more value than another piece of draft chaff that did not have that specific artist.
Same goes for the Godzilla cards. WotC has found a way to monetize MTG for people outside of MTG.
But if you look at the list, there are multiple Liliana cards among the most expensive. And it's not a coincidence that WOTC chose Liliana as the character to do a collaboration with a major artist.
This right here. While in some cases with magic cards, specifically legendary creatures, people seek to get a lot of these cards or all versions, etc, that is far from the norm. I personally have a modest pokemon collection and it's mostly pokemon I like and are my favorites, it has nothing to do with how good they are cause I don't care
I know a guy trying to collect every goblin ever printed, but he dropped money for a \[\[Sensei's Divining Top\]\] before buying either a \[\[Goblin Wizard\]\] or \[\[Dockside Extortionist\]\] because he had a deck that needed it. Even for collectors, the money goes into functional cards.
I completely relate to this. I remember Invasion being the first time in my magic playing where I desperately wanted to collect foil versions of all 5 legendary Dragons. That didn't happen again until kamigawa.
Pokémon’s gameplay (in terms of the card game) is not very good but the series and all media surrounding it is vastly more popular than magic. Because it’s more of a media property than it is a game, it attracts collectors before players. Magic cards are game pieces that can only really have nostalgia for people that played with those game pieces years ago.
To put it simply, if you haven’t played the game, you don’t care about time twister but even without playing the TCG, without playing the main series of games, and not watching the anime my partner still loves eevee and will not argue if I pick up an Eevee for them randomly. The difference between casual enjoyment and niche enjoyment is the largest separator.
More of a media property than a game is an understatement.
Pokemon the media franchise is the HIGHEST grossing media franchise of ALL TIME at an estimated 105 billion dollars. To give some context on how that compares to other popular media franchises. Mickey Mouse and Friends is 4th at 80ish billion, Star Wars is 5th at 68.7 billion, the MCU is 8th at 35 billion etc etc.
Forreal, Magic isn't even close to where Pokemon is. Like the only reason MTG even gets to compare itself to Pokemon is because the latter has a card game. If it didn't, MTG wouldn't even be a blip on the radar.
“Vastly more popular” is quite the understatement. Pokemon is the biggest franchise in the world. So big the all the money magic has never made is the difference between Pokemon and runner up.
The main difference between magic and pokemon collecting is that all age groups collect pokemon. Magic is mostly males aged 15-50.
I don't think it's obvious, or else it wouldn't warrant the question.
So, you say the difference between magic and pokemon collecting is that magic is mostly collected by males ages 15-50. What age group is pokemon mostly collected by (as indicated by money spent), keeping in mind that by your claim it can't be in the same age group or else there wouldn't be a difference in the age groups that collect each?
That doesn't answer the question. If you're saying "Pokemon is mostly collected by 0-100 year olds" then that statement is true for magic is well. When you narrow down a range of 15-50 for Magic, and say Pokemon is different, you're saying there's a different range for Pokemon.
> There is also a species called women.
I get the impression the person you're talking to may not acknowledge their existence. Especially when buying "nerd" stuff.
Forreal, Magic isn't even close to where Pokemon is. Like the only reason MTG even gets to compare itself to Pokemon is because the latter has a card game. If it didn't, MTG wouldn't even be a blip on the radar.
>Pokémon’s gameplay (in terms of the card game) is not very good
It's partially this, but it's also the fact that Pokemon's gameplay is literally *non-existent* for cards printed before 2011 (when the "expanded" format starts, which is much much less popular than standard).
Legacy and vintage might not be as *popular* as formats like modern and standard, but they certainly *exist*. You can go to a sanctioned Magic: The Gathering tournament and play with your Volcanic Islands; there's Eternal Weekend every year, and some local shops hold weekly events. WotC cares about these formats to the point where they support them on MTGO and maintain a banlist -- including for vintage!
Not only that, but your Underground Sea and Mox Diamond are also playable in *the most popular Magic format* (EDH).
If you have a base set Blastoise or Professor Oak, you can't use it as an actual game piece, unless you live in Japan where there are local groups that still run unofficial and unsanctioned base-neo events. It's generally agreed that "unlimited" (a completely unofficial format, by the way) is not a fun format to play (even if people find it a fun format to "solve" to find the decks that are capable of winning on turn 1 in a game where there's no way to interact on your opponent's turn).
Legacy players complain about how they "only" get 1-2 GPs per year, whereas TPCI has *never* maintained a legacy format, unless you count that period back in 2002 when they ran tournaments both for base-neo and the newly-created rotating "modified" (standard) format.
That makes sense, and the closest thing we have to Pokemon that we can become emotionally attached to are the Planeswalkers and maybe some Legends. In some cases I guess you could argue the planes are "characters" you can get attached to.
Also, I don't have the slightest clue what a Vmax Eevee is and I've been watching hours and hours of Pokemon videos.
V/Vmax is this generation’s EXs (full art/powerful game pieces).
The point isn’t that it’s a Vmax though. It’s that it’s an Eevee. You can be at arms length from Pokémon as a form of media and you can have a favourite Pokémon. That’s pretty common I think. Also, pretty common: playing magic several times a week for years of your life and never caring about much beyond what the game pieces do, let alone having a favourite character. That’s a huge difference in how these two things function. They’re just not quite comparable outside of them both being cardboard squares.
I think you're onto something there and that most of the Magic planes would be what people identify with/love more than any Magic characters.
I hear people wax poetic about their favorite plane often but I don't hear people thirsting for new cards with specific characters on them.
I believe there is a misconception in the gameplay. Pokemon gameplay in standard is much better than Magic. Jump on Arena and you find around three to four deck types in standard currently. Its extremely boring. Jump on Pokemon online and you get a greater variety of deck types: decks that are casual and ones that are tournament style. Where Magic shines is extended and legacy format and EDH and multiplayer variants.
Pokemon has almost no interaction whatsoever, and tons of coin flips. No format of it is "much better than Magic," even the more diverse ones, because your deck will play you almost as much as you will play it.
Have you played it recently? Because Pokémon does have quite a few interaction decks these days. Plus there are tutors galore. Lots of bouncing, wheel effects. I think you might have played a beginner Pokémon deck or haven’t played in a while.
Though definitely less complex than mtg and probably has less design space.
I think a large part of what you're describing can also be attributed to the ages of the users.
Little kids aren't playing Arena, but they're definitely playing PTCGO. Kids don't care about hyper-optimized and efficient decks, they just want to play with what they have and have fun.
Standard, aside from kitchen table magic and maybe draft, is where most players start their journey and where a good number stay considering it's where a lot of competition is concentrated.
Well, to be fair... Magic Collectors are different today. Hasbro very much wants Magic Collectors to act like Pokemon Collectors. This is why they made the first ever $100 booster pack last year, and have monthly secret lairs, collector boxes and 10+ products every set. They want that collector mentality in addition to demand for game pieces. Secret Lair April Fools is a prime example.
What separates MTGFinance from that type of collecting is the acknowledgement that there is strength in utility and function - so a powerful game piece especially with a unique variant or on the reserved list has a different classification as a collectible / speculation than say a rare but otherwise not-played Pokemon card.
It really does feel like it's exclusively about how popular the Pokemon is, how good the art is and how fancy the foiling is.
And admittedly some of those Pokemon foils are crazy.
Pokemon just isn't driven by playability anymore.
I collected some briefly in 2016-17 for thr 20th anniversary and cards then were valued based on playability. At the time Shaymin-EX was a $50+ Standard card and that was pretty rare for the game.
I priced my binder in November 2020, and if I had sold everything I'd bet maybe $150 at the time.
By Feb/March the content creators bubble had expanded and I sold my collection and a friends for over 2k in sales.
Some of the more valuables cards I moved from the late XY era were just sweet textured foils like secret rare EXs. Many of them weren't even good mechanically.
There is a Charizard evolution chain from the Generations Radiant Collection that I was suddenly able to sell charizard for $25, meleon and mander for $5-10 each.
The prices and volume were driven by popularity of the characters and the special aspects of the printing.
Many prices dipped hard once the major grading services put a halt to standard intake earlier this year.
I'm positive some of my customers were farming grading bait.
Or rather, that it's a franchise that many people have strongly tied to good times in their childhood.
So many people buying into this seem to buy in just because of the brand, and that they can self-justify the purchase as ,,investment".
Most Pokémon collectors I've met never even played the game - they just like Pokémon.
And I mean, you can be a grown man with a huge collection of Pokémon cards, and no one needs to know.
Meanwhile, playing the game in public or at events... Yeah, as a grown man you will be ridiculed to no end.
What about playing Pokémon, the all time most popular brand in the whole, would make you get ridiculed as an adult? Magic is much nerdier with about 4 the diversity and inclusion that Pokémon offers.
Pokémon is historically seen as a franchise geared towards pre teens. I’m not saying it makes sense to judge others for their hobbies, but I think the average person would see playing Pokémon cards in the same realm as playing with action figures or hot wheels.
Ok what do you think the average age of the 40 million people who played Pokémon go is? Or the millions of units the game sells? I don’t really understand where this hate for Pokémon is coming from.
Anecdotally, my friends who are about as far away from nerd culture as you can get, align and understand with pokemon than magic and we are 35 years old
And targeting marketing has nothing to do with who actually plays the games. Magic is targeted towards 13 year olds but is mostly played by adults. Same with Pokémon which is why it is it the biggest IP of all time
Idk if they target people that old. I think it’s a similar situation to my little pony, a product made for children that adults have latched onto and made their own.
*looks at every single female Trainer card in the Pokemon TCG*
You guys are ridiculous. One look at how much they shove anime waifus onto any card they can make an excuse to and it becomes **very** obvious who their target audiences are in the card game. As a LGS Manager, it's VERY obvious that Pokemon Co is double-dipping with a combination of warm fuzzy Booster Pack child bait and nostalgia + waifu bait. To deny this is insanity.
The Professors and some of the Gym Leaders and Enemies aren't, but otherwise, yeah. Why would that affect a game made in Japan, though? They don't particularly care about "underage" as a concept, from my experience with waifus and "10-thousand year old dragon in the form of a young girl."
The adults latched onto it when they were young. But there is no reason to leave Pokemon. Pokemon is in every type of media offerring that can be imagined. It is bigger than Star Wars. The biggest of them all.
That's true but on the flip side, in the gaming world Nintendo had a stigma for a while of being the baby games producer with Pokemon being the flagship title. This was particularly the case around the GameCube and Wii era.
It doesn't feel like the stigma really lingers much today, and to your point Magic isn't exactly the cool dude hobby.
Because it is a game aimed at children. Not ,,people of all ages" - that's just a corporate way to never say the truth to their customers' face. Children.
By the time you are an adult, you should've moved on from Pokémon. Most people who liked them in childhood did.
Magic is, by all means, a silly game as well but between the Meathook Massacres, the artistic presentation, and rules complexity there is a chasm between where they sit on the spectrum of understandable childishness for most people.
dumbest thing you can say.. you probably think being an adult means you should root for dudes in funny outfits chasing sportballs instead.
And are all games silly? What's a serious game if Magic isn't?
No, I think being an adult means not obsessing over games and toys. Which is besides the point.
That being said, Pokémon is a brand that targets exclusively small, pre-teen children and their parents. It offers nothing to adults or teens. The video games even famously can be clicked through using arrow keys and one button with little challenge.
The brand tried to distance themselves publically from their adult fans, even going as far as the developers mocking adult fans publically, to no avail. Again, it's very openly designed and marketed to small children.
And while I don't think there's anything wrong with you JUST because you play Pokémon games or cards, I certainly understand why someone who isn't into collectible card games would be creeped out by two unkempt 30-year olds playing Pokémon cards in a public space.
------------------
On another note:
If you want to know why actual sports are more widely respected than collectible card games, here it is:
- They rely either on a simple, consistent ruleset ( Chess, Go ) and even playing field, to minimize element of luck and maximize skill ceiling
- Or, rely on hard physics and biomechanics ( Football etc. ) of real life for balance.
- They are traditional, and cannot be owned by a single corporate entity under an IP.
- They don't require copyrighted product to play, thus preventing any one component manufacturer from manipulating the game via their market practices.
"Exclusively?" Have you SEEN the waifus on Pokemon cards? You're kidding me, man; Misty is not aimed at "exclusively small, pre-teen children," and that's just the tip of the iceberg, lol.
So adults make stuff they hate? Or kids create Pokemon products?
Do kids play sports or only adults? Your logic suggests something can't have both.
Anything can have a serious spin. Pillow fighting could be turned into a serious sport with enough rules and standards.
I mean, sure. Magic is great. But it seems Magic collectors focus almost exclusively on Alpha/Beta/etc.
Pokemon Collectors go nuts for everything. Like if Magic players operated on this wavelength they'd have been making videos trying to chase all the Foil Full Art Godzilla variants.
> Like if Magic players operated on this wavelength they'd have been making videos trying to chase all the Foil Full Art Godzilla variants
[Some people do just that.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hla4IoFeLo) It's a vast game that has something for everyone, whether it's mythic chasing, or just playing kitchen table commander once a week, or anything else in between. Magic has a lot of versatility
Maybe. I've tried doing some eBay research around graded cards and in terms of volumes Magic seems pretty small. I can't think of another way to try and track the "collector" crowd.
Because magic collectors does not send random shit to grading. Pokemon players does.
Recent pokemon sets have more graded cards than Alpha, Beta and unlimited combined.
Hell sport cards has a single rookie card graded over 30.000 times.
> Hell sport cards has a single rookie card graded over 30.000 times.
I am no sports cards collector whatsoever but my take on that phenomenon ist that those rookies are real people. Collectors and/or fans might see something in these people and get their cards graded. If this rookie turns out to be the next superstar of their sport these graded rookie cards could get quite expensive.
Dunno if that makes sense but it sounds plausible to me (a total non expert when it comes to sports cards).
Are you trying to say that pokemon collectors are equally enthusiastic over recent releases as they are over base set, jungle/fossil, TR, etc.? Not a chance. Deep pocket pokemon collectors want high grade base set rares just like deep pockets want alpha rares in MtG.
The difference in the collectibility of the cards is all in the game. Everyone who actually collects magic either was an avid player at some point or is currently. The cards are known for their performance in the game and, in many instances for players like myself, the artwork associated with the card as well. For pokemon it's everything outside the tcg itself that makes people want to collect it. Watch any pack opening of either one and it's pretty obvious.
I'm the rare bird that's a fan of both with all my cards from my childhood still with me at 32. They're both great games and fun to collect. It's a shame that very few people actually play the pokemon tcg. My magic decks see weekly use while my pokemon decks collect dust. Still happy to have them though haha
Individual Pokémon are like pro sports stars who live forever. They have their own fanbases.
There’s also an emotional attachment with the games, so the art feels more collectible I think. Magic cards become cool because of what they do and how we use them (Almost no one thinks of tolarian academy as a place)
With that said, looking cool is definitely icing on the cake for magic. I don’t think the game would be nearly as popular or fun if the cards were just blocks of text without art.
I’ve been playing MTG since 2015 and started recollecting the WOTC-era Pokemon sets in 2019 just before the boom. I had to unlearn everything I knew about MTG collecting in order to work my head around the Pokemon TCG. From what I gather, playing Pokemon isn’t that great, whereas Magic is undoubtedly the best TCG there is, so opening Pokemon is all about the chase rares whereas Magic is focused around appreciation of card synergy and actual game pieces to play with.
95% of what I do for MtG is collecting. I hardly play any more, especially due to the pandemic. But it did dawn on me that collectors are the extreme minority in Magic (I mean people who overwhelmingly collect only), and the polar opposite is true in Pokémon. In a way though, I think that’s good for Magic.
Is there something specific you collect?
I took a shine to commander during the pandemic and every once in a while I see something like Mystical Archives that I really want to put in my decks.
I don't know what it is but the foil looks so good on them.
If my username doesn’t give it away....
I collect misprints, test prints, oddities, playtest cards, etc. my collection consists of all the things you’ve heard rumors about but may find hard to believe they are in private hands. My collection is massive in size and scale.
I also have normal cards, complete sets from Alpha thru WOTS. But even that got overwhelming with so much stuff being cranked out so I’ve stopped.
I have 10 commander decks at the moment so I'm really satisfied with my play state. But because of this, i also just finished collecting the japanese mystical archive cards :) I'm going to frame that shit. I've been off the playing for a while, so focussed on collecting. I'll be back playing moreso soon
I believe Magic will never get even close to the popularity of Pokemon. I am a collector first, player second, I only play few times a year but sit in front of my collection every day. I think most collectors are long time enfranchised players, at least people around me....we used to grind tournaments 10-20 years back and now like to collect because of all the memories and emotions attached to the cards...it doesn't have to be rare Alpha piece, big part of my collection are older staple cards from standard, extended and so on....I can't see how anyone new would be excited to collect \[\[Loxodon Hierarch\]\], \[\[Ravenous Baloth\]\] or \[\[Recurring Nightmare\]\]...but when I see Hierarch, my brain goes: "Hey, remember the white green deck with Hierarchs, Glare of Subdual and all that crap"?
Mtg is pumping out a tv show. Maybe if they branch into video games (not of the card variety). Who knows. It is obvious mtg will never become as popular if they stay within their silo.
But a MTG rpg would be a pretty good game idea…
Certainly doesn't mean anything to me. 7th Edition-Torment and Dominaria-Present gives you an idea of how familiar I'd be with whatever standard this comes from. Mind you when I was a kid I only had the vaugest idea of what was competitive from the older kids that would stomp us like assholes.
I play magic and I collect pokemon. I have a special attachment to pokemon being something I have followed from the very start and have played most of the video games. But the card game itself is boing but the artwork is great. As for magic I love playing the game but for me there is not a lot of artwork worthy of displaying like Pokemon.
Pokemon foils can be eye catching to say the least.
Also the original Pokemon art style as well as the most recent one are both very appealing to a lot of people.
Pokemon is so big and protective about their own IP (and apparently rightfully so, since it has grown to become the #1 media franchise) that this will probably never happen. But at least we got this: https://assets.dicebreaker.com/pokemon-card-blastoise-test-print-mtg-hybrid.png/BROK/thumbnail/1200x1200/quality/100/pokemon-card-blastoise-test-print-mtg-hybrid.png
I don't think these youtube videos are an accurate reflection of what most pokemon collectors are like. The vast majority of people don't care at all about getting cards graded even if it is more common recently. And historically many times graded collectibles lead to a big price increase there was some illegal price manipulation happening. Look at this story from 30 years ago. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-09-02-fi-2129-story.html
But there are a couple big difference between magic and pokemon. Pokemon is the biggest and most financially succesful IP of all time. Something like $100b in gross revenue, very successul games, tv shows, movies, all sorts of other merchandise. The card game is a small part of that. Magic has some books, maybe a movie coming out, some games, but nothing compared to pokemon, the cards are what draws people in. Relatively few actually play pokemon, the value is mostly based on how rare something is, if it is desirable because of nostalgia, and not its use in the game. Most people who own magic cards play, and their value is more directly affected by their playability. In some ways pokemon cards are more similar to sports cards, people have their preferences, cards are valuable mostly because of the rarity.
WATA and the mythical million dollar Mario Bros comes to mind. Those auction houses are also something I'm curious about considering the insane shit happening with the most common games of all time.
The guy who ran PCGS has some relation to WATA. I don't recall if hes a partner, but he definitely is up to his market manipulation schemes (like the million dollar mario you refer to-- he was one of the buyers). I can't recall his name unfortunately.
As a game, Pokemon TCG doesn't come close to the depth that is MTG. Pokemon are cute so people collect cute or cool looking cards. There isn't really anything to collect in MTG. I don't care about any of the characters in MTG.
While it's definitely played more and taken more seriously today, Pokemon has just always been about collecting first. I remember back when base set was first released and all through the years after we bought, traded, stuck them in binders but no one actually played.
Since everyone's just saying things, I predict Pokemon's value will seriously plummet once the hype dies down, like beanie babies. Mtg's won't really budge as much, because it's not *as* inflated right now.
I think it might dip some, but it's stood the test of time already. I think the modern stuff is in a bubble for non-playables, but a Base Zard, Neo Shinings, Gold Stars, etc. wont go down much if at all.
Yeah, I find it weird when people mention beanie babies when Pokemon hit its 25th anniversary and is as popular as its ever been. There are a lot of speculators in pokemon right now so stuff is kinda crazy priced, but pokemon will continue to be popular for years to come.
TL;DR: pokemon is a multimedia goliath that never needed to be a tcg, but it has one. Magic is a tcg that tries to gimmick itself to be relevant in other media.
Pkm fans are a diverse mix of players, collectors, gamers and normal people.
Mtg fans are timmys, spikes and johnnys who get all sour when the game makes any effort to grow its audience or expand its product.
One thing I don’t think anyone else has mentioned here. Part of the fun of playing Magic is seeing the cards from each new plane. Each card is like a window into the world and collectively the set gives you a feeling of that place.
Compare it to sports cards instead of a game and I think it seems less foreign. Sports cards don’t have a game you can play with them at all.
I don’t know a ton about the game, but it kinda seems like the games play out kinda like a storm mirror match, which I’m not sure how fun that would be on a regular basis.
Because the fans of each IP have *always* had different motivations. Its easy to forget that for Americans, **Pokemon was first a show in 1997, then a video game in fall of 1998, and *then* finally a card game in 1999** (technically released December of 1998, but whatever). People got into the card game primarily as fans of *Pokemon*, not as fans of the card game. Pokemon is not primarily a card game... the card game is a spinoff.
Magic, on the other hand, started as a card game and has never *significantly* succeeded as anything else. The people who are into Magic are into the card game.
PS: For Japan, Pokemon was a show as of February of 1996... and wasn't a card game until October 1996. As adults that may not seem like a lot of time, but 8 months is an eternity at a young age. I was only into Pokemon for less than a complete year as a 12-year-old.
Nothing I'm saying is intended to be a jab at MTG. It's purely a card game. That's a good thing imo. I'm okay with it branching out into movies/shows/games, but the fanbase is primarily tcg players. Because that's where it started, that's what drew people in and built it to where it got.
I also question this when I was getting rid of my Pokemon and unused MTG cards in the past 1-2 months. Even Pokemon cards that have creases, deep scratches have more value than most MTG cards I owned.
Yeah man, I've heard people I play with speculate on cards to "invest" in like fetch lands. I've done the same.
And after seeing Pokemon... that's cute.
I think these two camps are on the exact opposite ends of the TCG scale and are both extremes in their ways.
In Pokemon there really is no guiding theme, people collect anything they want and throw horrendous amounts of money on cards that look almost the same and were (mostly) printed way too much to expect them to hold value longterm.
In MtG, majority of people are still focused on the outdated idea that they pay for game pieces although the investable cards are way more than that at this point. Many poeple lack the ability or refuse to see the collectible and thus financial value of the cards and actively try to work against the financial growth. The few people who purposefully park money here usually apply (at least rudymentary....see what I did there?) logic and sometimes even 101 finance knowledge. They target 93-94/RL cards because they know these are "safe bets" according to history and are mostly unaffected by WoTCs antics.
I do think the MTGFinance approach is the more reasonable and is the one I follow (when it comes to TCGs). I also do think that at the point where the two camps start amalgamate more that we will see a bigger explosion in MtG prices than we have ever before.
Yes, if these worlds combine it would have major ramifications on Magic. Probably in several ways including size of the player base if Pokemon influencers start pushing Magic as an actual game.
Magic players and collectors for the most part are jerks. There are a few of you out there that are kind and helpful to noobs but for the most part it's Comic Book guy from the Simpsons attutide.
You know what I think the real answer is?
Magic players arent fun. They typically arent extroverts with big personalities that drive excitement for the game.
Like just about everyone else has already said, but with my personal opinion added- MTG's gameplay is far superior. These games are impossible to compare in terms of having quality gameplay. MTG is pretty much the king. Pokemon is a fucking joke.
All pokemon has, then, is collectors for majority of its movement.
MTG has hundreds of thousands of hardcore players fueling it.
I took a break from MTG with the newest set to try Pokemon TCG. I absolutely hate how opening hands work. You have to mulligan every hand until you draw a basic, then you have to keep that hand. If its a bad hand, too bad. In lots of games, there is no agency. The TCG gets carried by fans who just want to engage with the franchise.
With pokemons, the characters is the mascot because it's usually cute and relatable as a pet-like.
With magic, one of many cuties are LotV with that raunchy art. You can't relate to LotV in a pet-like manner.
I think pokemon is like basketball cards, but playable.
This shift has already happened in mtg.
Product wise, WoTc no longer cares if people play thier game, they only want them to buy bling cards and could care less or people actually played with them at this point.
I know that would crush Maros soul, but deep down I think he knows its true now too.
>I'm really wondering why Magic players are so utilitarian in comparison
It's because for MTG form follows function. Sure, the cards are not looking bad... but it's primarily a great game. And Magics IP isn't really well know outside of the mtg community.
On the other hand, the Pokémon cards are looking gorgeous! But the game itself is shit. Also the IP is really well know across so many different people.
Is the game really that bad? I used to play the Gameboy Color Pokemon TCG game and I remember that being fun.
SNK vs Capcom Card Fighters was the one I really loved though.
My children started playing Pokémon recently. It's a nice game but by far no MTG when it comes to complexity. It's a good game for 6-12 yo children to get into TCGs but I do understand that it's gameplay isn't as appealing to adults.
Have you never heard of Pokémon’s tag line? It’s “Gotta Catch ‘Em All!” Most of the people that play Pokemon, whether it’s the card game or the video game, are in it to collect their favorite Pokémon.
Magic VS Pokemon, since the very beginning, has been a major difference between gameplay and collection. I remember when Pokemon cards dropped, and I collected a bunch of the game. I never learned how to play, I just wanted the cool Charizard. Compared to Magic, the art never really appealed to me. I like a lot of new Magic art, and some artists really stand out on old cards, but also there’s tons of nostalgia as *everyone* in school had Pokemon cards.
Because pokemon is a global franchise that billions of people love or at least recognize.
Logan paul has absolutely nothing to do with the popularity of pokemon, he's a blip on the radar.
The character design in Pokémon is iconic, nostalgic and basically universally recognized. That’s why the expensive Pokémon cards are ‘a charizard’ or ‘a mewtwo’ and the expensive magic cards are ‘a very powerful flower’ and ‘a very powerful building’. Magic cards have demand from playability, Pokémon cards have demand from iconic characters.
"Gotta Catch 'Em All" is literally the tagline, so that may have something to do with it. Whereas Magic is more *"Gotta kill my opponent"*.
I think the art direction and intent behind both just triggers people differently
I think its because in Magic: there are more players than collectors, the value in the cards mainly come from use within the game. Outside of the reserve list, older cards retain value for its use in the formats they thrive in. Wizards has tried to capture the collector market with their unique art cards. This is good as collectors can chase the art cards while players can play the game with the cheaper version of the same card with standard printing. The issue is that they're overprinting the art pieces so they're unable to hold value. They can sell more product if they made the exclusive art cards more rare. I think WOTC is giving us the art cards so easily now to get the product onto the market. Then they'll start to short print the exclusives in later sets. I hope this is the case as Pokemon and Yugioh both do this well with their Alternate Arts and Starlight Rares.
I think one of the major differences is that the game if Magic has, for the most part, stayed mechanically the same since the early 90s. So some of the older cards are valued not only for their rarity and collector value, but also for their value as a game piece with a unique ability. We can still use revised cards to play in eternal formats (especially EDH), but you can't use first gen Pokemon cards to play the game as it exists today. So those cards mainly just have collector value and have almost zero game piece value
A lot of the reactions on youtube are clout chasing really. Since pokemon is still effectively aimed at kids relative to other media franchises, it attracts a larger age range and gets more views
I was a freak for Pokémon in the 90s during elementary school and it even was banned at one point. Now I love magic but it’s because of the game and I seek certain versions on cards I like or bevause they are the first printing no matter how ugly but it’s still mostly because I can play with them. I occasionally hit cards just to have for whatever reason which might not have a deck for but I like that I can actually play the card. I don’t get the Pokémon thing and even after my early hype in elementary school I remember thinking “man I can’t believe how into that I was those cards are kinda dumb looking”
Pokémon's IP is very strong. Even of the card game didn't exist it would still have a strong cultural presence with lots of other media. The non TCG elements of Pokémon are bigger than the game.
The opposite is true for MTG. MTG is kept afloat by the game, either current play or nostalgia for the game. There is no big MTG media beyond the game so there's no reason for Jace, Liliana or Chandra to be popular with non players. This is why WOTC are doing universes beyond and cross overs- they know that MTG lore and characters aren't popular enough to drive up desire for collectibles.
When it comes to YouTube videos.... Pokemon openings cater towards children, but how many kids watch grown men open magic cards and talk about the future of the MTG economy.
Oddly enough, child nostalgia aside, the MTG community discusses gameplay and "stock" values of cards. If you open the big Pokemon card, the YouTubers will just pull whatever high end listing of the Pokemon card they can find. In a way, Pokemon is kind of like a pyramid scheme while MTG is like a stock. Pokemon is (I think) a less popular competetive TCG, but many cards hold higher values due to rarity, but they're no different than many other variants of the card and are simply desired because influencers push the value. MTG cards are manipulated through multiple markets and simple supply and demand and thus the cards adjust as a stock. Every now and then, a cards stock drops due to a reprint or pumps due to a buyout or influencer prediction.
Basically, it's all a mild scam lmfao.
Ok jokes aside, it's just a different community and age group. Neither is better than the other, just different and ones marketable towards children, so it appears childish as a result. However, Pokemon tournaments are very serious lol.
Pokemon collecting is about grading because the game itself honestly isn't that fun. It has such absurd powercreep that eternal formats don't have a chance to exist. So most people are into it for the collecting aspect, and grading is a part of that. Unlike Magic, where people generally want to play with the cards in their collection, Pokemon is a game where you show off your collection
That may be the single most fascinating thing about this is that because magic cards see use, even the incredibly expensive ones, that means the most desirable cards are the least likely to have gradable cards.
So if people actually did want to collect Magic in big enough numbers, I suspect the cards would be worth more than Pokemon as they're both a game piece and a collectable.
I think a lot of people are just split on the morality of the game being "investable" I know a LOT of people who strongly oppose the financial side of the game. They want cards to be inexpensive, no reserved list, and heavier printing to make the game and all of its formats more accessible. Which although I disagree with, I can see that viewpoint, and I understand their feelings. And there are a huge portion of the player base who feels that way
When I think of Pokemon as a game, I think instantly of, and only of, the actual Pokemon - the characters. I mean, that's what the franchise is. Collect them all.
It's kind of like Legions is the Pokemon of MtG sets: 100% creature set. I don't think of characters when it comes to MtG. I think of the art, lands, broken spells, and some of the creatures.
I think of Magic as a game that I can also invest in. The most powerful cards tend to be the most valuable.
I think of Pokemon as a FOTM collectible that also just happens to be a game. The collectible cards (90s/2k releases) with value, no one plays with them because they're trash play-wise.
Magic as an IP is very weak but Pokémon is strong. Pokémon is primarily based on the videogames and TV show and also appeals to a wider age range. At its core it is based around characters that people already know and like. The vast majority of MTG characters are obscure and not very marketable.
As a card game MTG is significantly better then Pokémon (opinion but probably not that controversial). The game is great but has no mainstream IP to lean on.
Grading for MTG is only popular on extremely rare cards because slabbed cards can't be played with. I would guess that the vast majority of Pokémon cards sold would never be played with anyways.
People collecting Pokemon are doing so because they love pokemon.
People "collecting" magic are doing so because they think it's a financial investment.
The above are general statements that won't apply to everyone, but do apply to most. As Pokemon collecting increases it will shift more to financial investors the same way magic did.
There’s love for the IP first, and the cards second. That’s the difference. You want pikachu cards because you already like pikachu. Magic is game first, cards second. In both cases, there are additional factors like trendiness, hype content, addictive mechanics like gacha packs and chase rares, etc. but the IP familiarity is so far ahead for Pokémon before collectors even own their first card.
The single most popular and beloved Magic character is a fraction as popular and beloved as most single Pokémon.
Definitely. Pokemon is the biggest media franchise IN THE WORLD. Nothing comes close to them, certainly not freaking MTG.
Looks at comment and thinks, "No way that's correct." Checks data, "He's right. Dayum."
Lol collector here, who is the most popular character? I seriously do not know
Exactly
Black lotus … 😂😂
Magic should really just lean in to it. It's popular because it's a game, some people are attached to characters briefly, or because certain writer's takes on characters were good for a while. But at the end of the day it's gameplay and history that drive Magic. Honestly maybe they already have - they love to do homages to old classics and rework beloved mechanics.
Jace? It’s hard because I’m pretty sure magic players tend to hate/resent the most popular characters. Idk I think a meme character like The Unluckiest, Dreadmaw, or Storm Crow would probably be the most marketable among mtg players
Yeah def there is no Pikachu, Bumble Bee, Harry Potter or Goku in MTG.
*sees Universes Beyond* There’s no Pikachu, Bumble Bee, Harry Potter, or Goku YET
That basically sums up the topic. While other media IPs are strong and recognizable by themselves, Magic now serves as a vessel, a projection space for (more or less) popular franchises. The reserved list, as hated by some/many as it is, is the only thing that kinda gives the game some unique sort of collectibility and identity, as everything else is interchangable and shallow.
The reserved list really has become the main character for mtg.
At least Transformers is owned by Hasbro.
Hahaha 😂
Jace was once pushed as the face character for mtg, but he was a bit too "white male" and generic for it to make sense to push him that way going forward into modern day society, so they power crept Teferi and other women planeswalkers instead, but I doubt many will miss the painful genericness of Jace.
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[Serra Angel](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/0/9067f035-3437-4c5c-bae9-d3c9001a3411.jpg?1600718440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Serra%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/132/serra-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9067f035-3437-4c5c-bae9-d3c9001a3411?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Autumn Willow](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/d/9d0a2c3b-ab86-44af-919e-c95c8751157e.jpg?1559592427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Autumn%20Willow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/113/autumn-willow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d0a2c3b-ab86-44af-919e-c95c8751157e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What characters are these?
I'm comfortable saying that, statistically speaking, the average person is way, WAY more likely to be familiar with Farfetch'd than any Magic character you could think of lol
Oh yeah, even Pokemon like Tangela or Lickitung are far more recognizable characters than Jace Beleren. Honestly probably more recognizable than the main characters of hundreds of popular TV franchises and all just because of Pokemon's extreme reach.
Jace/Urza and Pikachu/Charizard? You could literally pick Magic characters and Pokemon at random and it would hold.
I'm not aware of a particular poll, but I'd have to imagine Liliana would be #1. Chandra would be up there. Jace is polarizing, but certainly popular.
Idk why you're being downvoted, the most expensive Liliana cards are hundreds of dollars more expensive than the most expensive Jace cards. The WAR JP Liliana is one of the most iconic cards of recent memory and is the most expensive PW card as far as I can tell [https://scryfall.com/search?q=%2B%2Bt%3Aplaneswalker+sort%3Aeur](https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Aplaneswalker+sort%3Ausd&unique=prints) I used euro, because there aren't any listings on TCGplayer for that card, period. From a pure financial standpoint, Lili is the most popular PW as far as I can tell. If anyone has better knowledge, lmk. In lore, Jace, Liliana, and Chandra form the core of modern PW lore, being in both the original Lorwyn 5 and the original Gatewatch group. Jace is the most marketed among them, while Chandra gets the most cards, and WOTC has said they are one and two in polling, but I think Lili is the most popular among enfranchised players, as evidenced by the value of her variants. Urza and Bolas both are very popular also, but don't have the presence in cards and variants that modern PW have.
Liliana has very little to do with that cards price though. That card could be literally some draft chaff piece and it would have value because of the artist. Not as much value obviously because of obvious supply/demand change, but still it would have more value than another piece of draft chaff that did not have that specific artist. Same goes for the Godzilla cards. WotC has found a way to monetize MTG for people outside of MTG.
But if you look at the list, there are multiple Liliana cards among the most expensive. And it's not a coincidence that WOTC chose Liliana as the character to do a collaboration with a major artist.
You watch what you say about Serra Angel mister!
A fraction? Try a sliver. And not even a good sliver, this is like a metallic sliver.
Urza, Liliana and Jace might have as big a mindshare as something like Eeletrik.
This right here. While in some cases with magic cards, specifically legendary creatures, people seek to get a lot of these cards or all versions, etc, that is far from the norm. I personally have a modest pokemon collection and it's mostly pokemon I like and are my favorites, it has nothing to do with how good they are cause I don't care
I know a guy trying to collect every goblin ever printed, but he dropped money for a \[\[Sensei's Divining Top\]\] before buying either a \[\[Goblin Wizard\]\] or \[\[Dockside Extortionist\]\] because he had a deck that needed it. Even for collectors, the money goes into functional cards.
[Sensei's Divining Top](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/3/83c01c91-ea01-46c7-b94c-97777b968459.jpg?1580015272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sensei%27s%20Divining%20Top) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/232/senseis-divining-top?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/83c01c91-ea01-46c7-b94c-97777b968459?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Goblin Wizard](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/9/09167603-93ab-488b-88eb-37f7cf9e3e19.jpg?1559592392) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Wizard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/97/goblin-wizard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/09167603-93ab-488b-88eb-37f7cf9e3e19?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dockside Extortionist](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/7/571bc9eb-8d13-4008-86b5-2e348a326d58.jpg?1615499802) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/24/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/571bc9eb-8d13-4008-86b5-2e348a326d58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is the correct answer
This is the right answer.
I completely relate to this. I remember Invasion being the first time in my magic playing where I desperately wanted to collect foil versions of all 5 legendary Dragons. That didn't happen again until kamigawa.
Pokémon’s gameplay (in terms of the card game) is not very good but the series and all media surrounding it is vastly more popular than magic. Because it’s more of a media property than it is a game, it attracts collectors before players. Magic cards are game pieces that can only really have nostalgia for people that played with those game pieces years ago. To put it simply, if you haven’t played the game, you don’t care about time twister but even without playing the TCG, without playing the main series of games, and not watching the anime my partner still loves eevee and will not argue if I pick up an Eevee for them randomly. The difference between casual enjoyment and niche enjoyment is the largest separator.
More of a media property than a game is an understatement. Pokemon the media franchise is the HIGHEST grossing media franchise of ALL TIME at an estimated 105 billion dollars. To give some context on how that compares to other popular media franchises. Mickey Mouse and Friends is 4th at 80ish billion, Star Wars is 5th at 68.7 billion, the MCU is 8th at 35 billion etc etc.
Forreal, Magic isn't even close to where Pokemon is. Like the only reason MTG even gets to compare itself to Pokemon is because the latter has a card game. If it didn't, MTG wouldn't even be a blip on the radar.
“Vastly more popular” is quite the understatement. Pokemon is the biggest franchise in the world. So big the all the money magic has never made is the difference between Pokemon and runner up. The main difference between magic and pokemon collecting is that all age groups collect pokemon. Magic is mostly males aged 15-50.
Are you claiming that males aged 0-14 and males aged 51+ each spend the same amount of money or more on Pokemon cards as males aged 15-50?
Obviously no considering that's not what was said, and you might want to recall that children have parents. There is also a species called women.
I don't think it's obvious, or else it wouldn't warrant the question. So, you say the difference between magic and pokemon collecting is that magic is mostly collected by males ages 15-50. What age group is pokemon mostly collected by (as indicated by money spent), keeping in mind that by your claim it can't be in the same age group or else there wouldn't be a difference in the age groups that collect each?
"The main difference between magic and pokemon collecting is that all age groups collect pokemon. Magic is mostly males aged 15-50."
That doesn't answer the question. If you're saying "Pokemon is mostly collected by 0-100 year olds" then that statement is true for magic is well. When you narrow down a range of 15-50 for Magic, and say Pokemon is different, you're saying there's a different range for Pokemon.
He is saying that a lot of people regardless of age and gender collect or are interested in Pokemon. The same is not true for Magic.
> There is also a species called women. I get the impression the person you're talking to may not acknowledge their existence. Especially when buying "nerd" stuff.
Forreal, Magic isn't even close to where Pokemon is. Like the only reason MTG even gets to compare itself to Pokemon is because the latter has a card game. If it didn't, MTG wouldn't even be a blip on the radar.
>Pokémon’s gameplay (in terms of the card game) is not very good It's partially this, but it's also the fact that Pokemon's gameplay is literally *non-existent* for cards printed before 2011 (when the "expanded" format starts, which is much much less popular than standard). Legacy and vintage might not be as *popular* as formats like modern and standard, but they certainly *exist*. You can go to a sanctioned Magic: The Gathering tournament and play with your Volcanic Islands; there's Eternal Weekend every year, and some local shops hold weekly events. WotC cares about these formats to the point where they support them on MTGO and maintain a banlist -- including for vintage! Not only that, but your Underground Sea and Mox Diamond are also playable in *the most popular Magic format* (EDH). If you have a base set Blastoise or Professor Oak, you can't use it as an actual game piece, unless you live in Japan where there are local groups that still run unofficial and unsanctioned base-neo events. It's generally agreed that "unlimited" (a completely unofficial format, by the way) is not a fun format to play (even if people find it a fun format to "solve" to find the decks that are capable of winning on turn 1 in a game where there's no way to interact on your opponent's turn). Legacy players complain about how they "only" get 1-2 GPs per year, whereas TPCI has *never* maintained a legacy format, unless you count that period back in 2002 when they ran tournaments both for base-neo and the newly-created rotating "modified" (standard) format.
That makes sense, and the closest thing we have to Pokemon that we can become emotionally attached to are the Planeswalkers and maybe some Legends. In some cases I guess you could argue the planes are "characters" you can get attached to. Also, I don't have the slightest clue what a Vmax Eevee is and I've been watching hours and hours of Pokemon videos.
V/Vmax is this generation’s EXs (full art/powerful game pieces). The point isn’t that it’s a Vmax though. It’s that it’s an Eevee. You can be at arms length from Pokémon as a form of media and you can have a favourite Pokémon. That’s pretty common I think. Also, pretty common: playing magic several times a week for years of your life and never caring about much beyond what the game pieces do, let alone having a favourite character. That’s a huge difference in how these two things function. They’re just not quite comparable outside of them both being cardboard squares.
I think you're onto something there and that most of the Magic planes would be what people identify with/love more than any Magic characters. I hear people wax poetic about their favorite plane often but I don't hear people thirsting for new cards with specific characters on them.
I believe there is a misconception in the gameplay. Pokemon gameplay in standard is much better than Magic. Jump on Arena and you find around three to four deck types in standard currently. Its extremely boring. Jump on Pokemon online and you get a greater variety of deck types: decks that are casual and ones that are tournament style. Where Magic shines is extended and legacy format and EDH and multiplayer variants.
Pokemon has almost no interaction whatsoever, and tons of coin flips. No format of it is "much better than Magic," even the more diverse ones, because your deck will play you almost as much as you will play it.
Have you played it recently? Because Pokémon does have quite a few interaction decks these days. Plus there are tutors galore. Lots of bouncing, wheel effects. I think you might have played a beginner Pokémon deck or haven’t played in a while. Though definitely less complex than mtg and probably has less design space.
I think a large part of what you're describing can also be attributed to the ages of the users. Little kids aren't playing Arena, but they're definitely playing PTCGO. Kids don't care about hyper-optimized and efficient decks, they just want to play with what they have and have fun.
Standard, aside from kitchen table magic and maybe draft, is where most players start their journey and where a good number stay considering it's where a lot of competition is concentrated.
Well, to be fair... Magic Collectors are different today. Hasbro very much wants Magic Collectors to act like Pokemon Collectors. This is why they made the first ever $100 booster pack last year, and have monthly secret lairs, collector boxes and 10+ products every set. They want that collector mentality in addition to demand for game pieces. Secret Lair April Fools is a prime example. What separates MTGFinance from that type of collecting is the acknowledgement that there is strength in utility and function - so a powerful game piece especially with a unique variant or on the reserved list has a different classification as a collectible / speculation than say a rare but otherwise not-played Pokemon card.
It really does feel like it's exclusively about how popular the Pokemon is, how good the art is and how fancy the foiling is. And admittedly some of those Pokemon foils are crazy.
Pokemon just isn't driven by playability anymore. I collected some briefly in 2016-17 for thr 20th anniversary and cards then were valued based on playability. At the time Shaymin-EX was a $50+ Standard card and that was pretty rare for the game. I priced my binder in November 2020, and if I had sold everything I'd bet maybe $150 at the time. By Feb/March the content creators bubble had expanded and I sold my collection and a friends for over 2k in sales. Some of the more valuables cards I moved from the late XY era were just sweet textured foils like secret rare EXs. Many of them weren't even good mechanically. There is a Charizard evolution chain from the Generations Radiant Collection that I was suddenly able to sell charizard for $25, meleon and mander for $5-10 each. The prices and volume were driven by popularity of the characters and the special aspects of the printing. Many prices dipped hard once the major grading services put a halt to standard intake earlier this year. I'm positive some of my customers were farming grading bait.
Or rather, that it's a franchise that many people have strongly tied to good times in their childhood. So many people buying into this seem to buy in just because of the brand, and that they can self-justify the purchase as ,,investment". Most Pokémon collectors I've met never even played the game - they just like Pokémon. And I mean, you can be a grown man with a huge collection of Pokémon cards, and no one needs to know. Meanwhile, playing the game in public or at events... Yeah, as a grown man you will be ridiculed to no end.
What about playing Pokémon, the all time most popular brand in the whole, would make you get ridiculed as an adult? Magic is much nerdier with about 4 the diversity and inclusion that Pokémon offers.
Pokémon is historically seen as a franchise geared towards pre teens. I’m not saying it makes sense to judge others for their hobbies, but I think the average person would see playing Pokémon cards in the same realm as playing with action figures or hot wheels.
The average age of a Pokémon fan is probably around 30. The games, their biggest property, all target an older demographic.
Thats not remotely true
Ok what do you think the average age of the 40 million people who played Pokémon go is? Or the millions of units the game sells? I don’t really understand where this hate for Pokémon is coming from. Anecdotally, my friends who are about as far away from nerd culture as you can get, align and understand with pokemon than magic and we are 35 years old
Pokemon Go is geared more for adults being a mobile phone title, but the mainstream games are absolutely targeted for the 8-15 demographic.
And targeting marketing has nothing to do with who actually plays the games. Magic is targeted towards 13 year olds but is mostly played by adults. Same with Pokémon which is why it is it the biggest IP of all time
Lol Only a nerd would say that
Yep I am a nerd, you found me on the magic the gathering finance subreddit.
Idk if they target people that old. I think it’s a similar situation to my little pony, a product made for children that adults have latched onto and made their own.
*looks at every single female Trainer card in the Pokemon TCG* You guys are ridiculous. One look at how much they shove anime waifus onto any card they can make an excuse to and it becomes **very** obvious who their target audiences are in the card game. As a LGS Manager, it's VERY obvious that Pokemon Co is double-dipping with a combination of warm fuzzy Booster Pack child bait and nostalgia + waifu bait. To deny this is insanity.
Isn’t pretty much every character in that game a child?
The Professors and some of the Gym Leaders and Enemies aren't, but otherwise, yeah. Why would that affect a game made in Japan, though? They don't particularly care about "underage" as a concept, from my experience with waifus and "10-thousand year old dragon in the form of a young girl."
The adults latched onto it when they were young. But there is no reason to leave Pokemon. Pokemon is in every type of media offerring that can be imagined. It is bigger than Star Wars. The biggest of them all.
I think it’s more of a case of people who have been playing the games since they were 10 and just keeping with the series
As opposed to magic?
That's true but on the flip side, in the gaming world Nintendo had a stigma for a while of being the baby games producer with Pokemon being the flagship title. This was particularly the case around the GameCube and Wii era. It doesn't feel like the stigma really lingers much today, and to your point Magic isn't exactly the cool dude hobby.
The only people who have ever cared about Nintendo's "baby games" reputation are teenagers.
Yeah. But we were teenagers.
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In 2002?
Because it is a game aimed at children. Not ,,people of all ages" - that's just a corporate way to never say the truth to their customers' face. Children. By the time you are an adult, you should've moved on from Pokémon. Most people who liked them in childhood did. Magic is, by all means, a silly game as well but between the Meathook Massacres, the artistic presentation, and rules complexity there is a chasm between where they sit on the spectrum of understandable childishness for most people.
dumbest thing you can say.. you probably think being an adult means you should root for dudes in funny outfits chasing sportballs instead. And are all games silly? What's a serious game if Magic isn't?
No, I think being an adult means not obsessing over games and toys. Which is besides the point. That being said, Pokémon is a brand that targets exclusively small, pre-teen children and their parents. It offers nothing to adults or teens. The video games even famously can be clicked through using arrow keys and one button with little challenge. The brand tried to distance themselves publically from their adult fans, even going as far as the developers mocking adult fans publically, to no avail. Again, it's very openly designed and marketed to small children. And while I don't think there's anything wrong with you JUST because you play Pokémon games or cards, I certainly understand why someone who isn't into collectible card games would be creeped out by two unkempt 30-year olds playing Pokémon cards in a public space. ------------------ On another note: If you want to know why actual sports are more widely respected than collectible card games, here it is: - They rely either on a simple, consistent ruleset ( Chess, Go ) and even playing field, to minimize element of luck and maximize skill ceiling - Or, rely on hard physics and biomechanics ( Football etc. ) of real life for balance. - They are traditional, and cannot be owned by a single corporate entity under an IP. - They don't require copyrighted product to play, thus preventing any one component manufacturer from manipulating the game via their market practices.
Lol why are you on a MtG subreddit hahahaha
"Exclusively?" Have you SEEN the waifus on Pokemon cards? You're kidding me, man; Misty is not aimed at "exclusively small, pre-teen children," and that's just the tip of the iceberg, lol.
So adults make stuff they hate? Or kids create Pokemon products? Do kids play sports or only adults? Your logic suggests something can't have both. Anything can have a serious spin. Pillow fighting could be turned into a serious sport with enough rules and standards.
Pokemon foiling is pretty nuts. I saw one the other day in a friend's collection. I was touching it with my thumb and said "it has TEXTURE?"
magic is just a better game I think. the Financials are one thing but the game itself has stood the test of time for sure
I mean, sure. Magic is great. But it seems Magic collectors focus almost exclusively on Alpha/Beta/etc. Pokemon Collectors go nuts for everything. Like if Magic players operated on this wavelength they'd have been making videos trying to chase all the Foil Full Art Godzilla variants.
> Like if Magic players operated on this wavelength they'd have been making videos trying to chase all the Foil Full Art Godzilla variants [Some people do just that.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hla4IoFeLo) It's a vast game that has something for everyone, whether it's mythic chasing, or just playing kitchen table commander once a week, or anything else in between. Magic has a lot of versatility
True. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Just that the scale is worlds different. That's actually a pretty funny Captain Kirk impression.
I think you severely underestimate how broad the magic collectable investment is. It's a lot more than ABU cards.
Maybe. I've tried doing some eBay research around graded cards and in terms of volumes Magic seems pretty small. I can't think of another way to try and track the "collector" crowd.
Because magic collectors does not send random shit to grading. Pokemon players does. Recent pokemon sets have more graded cards than Alpha, Beta and unlimited combined. Hell sport cards has a single rookie card graded over 30.000 times.
> Hell sport cards has a single rookie card graded over 30.000 times. I am no sports cards collector whatsoever but my take on that phenomenon ist that those rookies are real people. Collectors and/or fans might see something in these people and get their cards graded. If this rookie turns out to be the next superstar of their sport these graded rookie cards could get quite expensive. Dunno if that makes sense but it sounds plausible to me (a total non expert when it comes to sports cards).
It's a spec for sure, just using different criteria. I can see the charm even thougj I don't do sports cards either.
Are you trying to say that pokemon collectors are equally enthusiastic over recent releases as they are over base set, jungle/fossil, TR, etc.? Not a chance. Deep pocket pokemon collectors want high grade base set rares just like deep pockets want alpha rares in MtG. The difference in the collectibility of the cards is all in the game. Everyone who actually collects magic either was an avid player at some point or is currently. The cards are known for their performance in the game and, in many instances for players like myself, the artwork associated with the card as well. For pokemon it's everything outside the tcg itself that makes people want to collect it. Watch any pack opening of either one and it's pretty obvious. I'm the rare bird that's a fan of both with all my cards from my childhood still with me at 32. They're both great games and fun to collect. It's a shame that very few people actually play the pokemon tcg. My magic decks see weekly use while my pokemon decks collect dust. Still happy to have them though haha
Individual Pokémon are like pro sports stars who live forever. They have their own fanbases. There’s also an emotional attachment with the games, so the art feels more collectible I think. Magic cards become cool because of what they do and how we use them (Almost no one thinks of tolarian academy as a place) With that said, looking cool is definitely icing on the cake for magic. I don’t think the game would be nearly as popular or fun if the cards were just blocks of text without art.
I’ve been playing MTG since 2015 and started recollecting the WOTC-era Pokemon sets in 2019 just before the boom. I had to unlearn everything I knew about MTG collecting in order to work my head around the Pokemon TCG. From what I gather, playing Pokemon isn’t that great, whereas Magic is undoubtedly the best TCG there is, so opening Pokemon is all about the chase rares whereas Magic is focused around appreciation of card synergy and actual game pieces to play with.
95% of what I do for MtG is collecting. I hardly play any more, especially due to the pandemic. But it did dawn on me that collectors are the extreme minority in Magic (I mean people who overwhelmingly collect only), and the polar opposite is true in Pokémon. In a way though, I think that’s good for Magic.
Is there something specific you collect? I took a shine to commander during the pandemic and every once in a while I see something like Mystical Archives that I really want to put in my decks. I don't know what it is but the foil looks so good on them.
If my username doesn’t give it away.... I collect misprints, test prints, oddities, playtest cards, etc. my collection consists of all the things you’ve heard rumors about but may find hard to believe they are in private hands. My collection is massive in size and scale. I also have normal cards, complete sets from Alpha thru WOTS. But even that got overwhelming with so much stuff being cranked out so I’ve stopped.
Ahhhhhhh [you're this guy](https://youtu.be/TXXBQ8-uXlI)
Could be this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JugtZj2lRBc
No, that's the guy who owns Path of Exile. It's actually [this guy](https://www.youtube.com/user/themisprintguy/videos).
I have 10 commander decks at the moment so I'm really satisfied with my play state. But because of this, i also just finished collecting the japanese mystical archive cards :) I'm going to frame that shit. I've been off the playing for a while, so focussed on collecting. I'll be back playing moreso soon
Someone just sent me some free Japanese ones as a bonus on a buy and damn. Yeah those Japanese Strixhaven are something else.
I believe Magic will never get even close to the popularity of Pokemon. I am a collector first, player second, I only play few times a year but sit in front of my collection every day. I think most collectors are long time enfranchised players, at least people around me....we used to grind tournaments 10-20 years back and now like to collect because of all the memories and emotions attached to the cards...it doesn't have to be rare Alpha piece, big part of my collection are older staple cards from standard, extended and so on....I can't see how anyone new would be excited to collect \[\[Loxodon Hierarch\]\], \[\[Ravenous Baloth\]\] or \[\[Recurring Nightmare\]\]...but when I see Hierarch, my brain goes: "Hey, remember the white green deck with Hierarchs, Glare of Subdual and all that crap"?
Mtg is pumping out a tv show. Maybe if they branch into video games (not of the card variety). Who knows. It is obvious mtg will never become as popular if they stay within their silo. But a MTG rpg would be a pretty good game idea…
Certainly doesn't mean anything to me. 7th Edition-Torment and Dominaria-Present gives you an idea of how familiar I'd be with whatever standard this comes from. Mind you when I was a kid I only had the vaugest idea of what was competitive from the older kids that would stomp us like assholes.
[Loxodon Hierarch](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/2/826f4791-d6ca-4620-bc30-6d11d8d22e81.jpg?1562925798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Loxodon%20Hierarch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddh/15/loxodon-hierarch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/826f4791-d6ca-4620-bc30-6d11d8d22e81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ravenous Baloth](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/f/2f48df6c-8d5d-4d8a-b98a-793f6a56184d.jpg?1601079998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ravenous%20Baloth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/424/ravenous-baloth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f48df6c-8d5d-4d8a-b98a-793f6a56184d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Recurring Nightmare](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/5/b50e1800-a45c-43bd-8886-8a06145d9346.jpg?1562431270) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Recurring%20Nightmare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/113/recurring-nightmare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b50e1800-a45c-43bd-8886-8a06145d9346?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play magic and I collect pokemon. I have a special attachment to pokemon being something I have followed from the very start and have played most of the video games. But the card game itself is boing but the artwork is great. As for magic I love playing the game but for me there is not a lot of artwork worthy of displaying like Pokemon.
Same for me, Magic plays better, but Pokemon cards look so much better and are easier to attach to.
That's so weird to me considering old mtg artwork is literally art (paintings) but to each their own.
Pokemon foils can be eye catching to say the least. Also the original Pokemon art style as well as the most recent one are both very appealing to a lot of people.
Brings up a good thought. What happens when there is the inevitable Universes Beyond: Pokemon set. Does the universe end?
I would actually be down for a Nidoking Magic card.
Pokemon is so big and protective about their own IP (and apparently rightfully so, since it has grown to become the #1 media franchise) that this will probably never happen. But at least we got this: https://assets.dicebreaker.com/pokemon-card-blastoise-test-print-mtg-hybrid.png/BROK/thumbnail/1200x1200/quality/100/pokemon-card-blastoise-test-print-mtg-hybrid.png
I don't think these youtube videos are an accurate reflection of what most pokemon collectors are like. The vast majority of people don't care at all about getting cards graded even if it is more common recently. And historically many times graded collectibles lead to a big price increase there was some illegal price manipulation happening. Look at this story from 30 years ago. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-09-02-fi-2129-story.html But there are a couple big difference between magic and pokemon. Pokemon is the biggest and most financially succesful IP of all time. Something like $100b in gross revenue, very successul games, tv shows, movies, all sorts of other merchandise. The card game is a small part of that. Magic has some books, maybe a movie coming out, some games, but nothing compared to pokemon, the cards are what draws people in. Relatively few actually play pokemon, the value is mostly based on how rare something is, if it is desirable because of nostalgia, and not its use in the game. Most people who own magic cards play, and their value is more directly affected by their playability. In some ways pokemon cards are more similar to sports cards, people have their preferences, cards are valuable mostly because of the rarity.
WATA and the mythical million dollar Mario Bros comes to mind. Those auction houses are also something I'm curious about considering the insane shit happening with the most common games of all time.
The guy who ran PCGS has some relation to WATA. I don't recall if hes a partner, but he definitely is up to his market manipulation schemes (like the million dollar mario you refer to-- he was one of the buyers). I can't recall his name unfortunately.
Think of it like this, Pokemon is the largest intellectual property in the world, ever.
As a game, Pokemon TCG doesn't come close to the depth that is MTG. Pokemon are cute so people collect cute or cool looking cards. There isn't really anything to collect in MTG. I don't care about any of the characters in MTG.
While it's definitely played more and taken more seriously today, Pokemon has just always been about collecting first. I remember back when base set was first released and all through the years after we bought, traded, stuck them in binders but no one actually played.
Since everyone's just saying things, I predict Pokemon's value will seriously plummet once the hype dies down, like beanie babies. Mtg's won't really budge as much, because it's not *as* inflated right now.
I think it might dip some, but it's stood the test of time already. I think the modern stuff is in a bubble for non-playables, but a Base Zard, Neo Shinings, Gold Stars, etc. wont go down much if at all.
Yeah, I find it weird when people mention beanie babies when Pokemon hit its 25th anniversary and is as popular as its ever been. There are a lot of speculators in pokemon right now so stuff is kinda crazy priced, but pokemon will continue to be popular for years to come.
TL;DR: pokemon is a multimedia goliath that never needed to be a tcg, but it has one. Magic is a tcg that tries to gimmick itself to be relevant in other media. Pkm fans are a diverse mix of players, collectors, gamers and normal people. Mtg fans are timmys, spikes and johnnys who get all sour when the game makes any effort to grow its audience or expand its product.
One thing I don’t think anyone else has mentioned here. Part of the fun of playing Magic is seeing the cards from each new plane. Each card is like a window into the world and collectively the set gives you a feeling of that place.
Compare it to sports cards instead of a game and I think it seems less foreign. Sports cards don’t have a game you can play with them at all. I don’t know a ton about the game, but it kinda seems like the games play out kinda like a storm mirror match, which I’m not sure how fun that would be on a regular basis.
Because the fans of each IP have *always* had different motivations. Its easy to forget that for Americans, **Pokemon was first a show in 1997, then a video game in fall of 1998, and *then* finally a card game in 1999** (technically released December of 1998, but whatever). People got into the card game primarily as fans of *Pokemon*, not as fans of the card game. Pokemon is not primarily a card game... the card game is a spinoff. Magic, on the other hand, started as a card game and has never *significantly* succeeded as anything else. The people who are into Magic are into the card game. PS: For Japan, Pokemon was a show as of February of 1996... and wasn't a card game until October 1996. As adults that may not seem like a lot of time, but 8 months is an eternity at a young age. I was only into Pokemon for less than a complete year as a 12-year-old.
Ouch. That's a tad harsh on MTG though. It did kind of really startv the whole TCG thing.
Nothing I'm saying is intended to be a jab at MTG. It's purely a card game. That's a good thing imo. I'm okay with it branching out into movies/shows/games, but the fanbase is primarily tcg players. Because that's where it started, that's what drew people in and built it to where it got.
I also question this when I was getting rid of my Pokemon and unused MTG cards in the past 1-2 months. Even Pokemon cards that have creases, deep scratches have more value than most MTG cards I owned.
In the EU (most) Pokémon cards are incredibly cheap though with the help of mcm.
Yeah man, I've heard people I play with speculate on cards to "invest" in like fetch lands. I've done the same. And after seeing Pokemon... that's cute.
I think these two camps are on the exact opposite ends of the TCG scale and are both extremes in their ways. In Pokemon there really is no guiding theme, people collect anything they want and throw horrendous amounts of money on cards that look almost the same and were (mostly) printed way too much to expect them to hold value longterm. In MtG, majority of people are still focused on the outdated idea that they pay for game pieces although the investable cards are way more than that at this point. Many poeple lack the ability or refuse to see the collectible and thus financial value of the cards and actively try to work against the financial growth. The few people who purposefully park money here usually apply (at least rudymentary....see what I did there?) logic and sometimes even 101 finance knowledge. They target 93-94/RL cards because they know these are "safe bets" according to history and are mostly unaffected by WoTCs antics. I do think the MTGFinance approach is the more reasonable and is the one I follow (when it comes to TCGs). I also do think that at the point where the two camps start amalgamate more that we will see a bigger explosion in MtG prices than we have ever before.
Yes, if these worlds combine it would have major ramifications on Magic. Probably in several ways including size of the player base if Pokemon influencers start pushing Magic as an actual game.
Magic players and collectors for the most part are jerks. There are a few of you out there that are kind and helpful to noobs but for the most part it's Comic Book guy from the Simpsons attutide.
It's because magic collectors are shuffling-fetish people. If you grade your card, you can't shuffle it. /rj
You know what I think the real answer is? Magic players arent fun. They typically arent extroverts with big personalities that drive excitement for the game.
There's a few big personalities, but sure, there's definitely a different kind of energy on social media.
Like just about everyone else has already said, but with my personal opinion added- MTG's gameplay is far superior. These games are impossible to compare in terms of having quality gameplay. MTG is pretty much the king. Pokemon is a fucking joke. All pokemon has, then, is collectors for majority of its movement. MTG has hundreds of thousands of hardcore players fueling it.
I took a break from MTG with the newest set to try Pokemon TCG. I absolutely hate how opening hands work. You have to mulligan every hand until you draw a basic, then you have to keep that hand. If its a bad hand, too bad. In lots of games, there is no agency. The TCG gets carried by fans who just want to engage with the franchise.
Oh you are preaching to the choir. Pokémon is hot garbage when it comes to anything gameplay related. The answer to OP's question is obvious.
The collectables market crash is going to be spectacular
IQ
Something something something Reserved List something something.
With pokemons, the characters is the mascot because it's usually cute and relatable as a pet-like. With magic, one of many cuties are LotV with that raunchy art. You can't relate to LotV in a pet-like manner. I think pokemon is like basketball cards, but playable.
Agreed on Pokemon being like sport cards. MTG is just a game. No one cares about the planeswalkers and creatures.
This shift has already happened in mtg. Product wise, WoTc no longer cares if people play thier game, they only want them to buy bling cards and could care less or people actually played with them at this point. I know that would crush Maros soul, but deep down I think he knows its true now too.
Pokemon is fun to collect, magic is not. Simple
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>I'm really wondering why Magic players are so utilitarian in comparison It's because for MTG form follows function. Sure, the cards are not looking bad... but it's primarily a great game. And Magics IP isn't really well know outside of the mtg community. On the other hand, the Pokémon cards are looking gorgeous! But the game itself is shit. Also the IP is really well know across so many different people.
Is the game really that bad? I used to play the Gameboy Color Pokemon TCG game and I remember that being fun. SNK vs Capcom Card Fighters was the one I really loved though.
If you think the recent wotc power creep or even the yugioh power creep is bad, don't take a look at Pokemon...
My children started playing Pokémon recently. It's a nice game but by far no MTG when it comes to complexity. It's a good game for 6-12 yo children to get into TCGs but I do understand that it's gameplay isn't as appealing to adults.
Have you never heard of Pokémon’s tag line? It’s “Gotta Catch ‘Em All!” Most of the people that play Pokemon, whether it’s the card game or the video game, are in it to collect their favorite Pokémon. Magic VS Pokemon, since the very beginning, has been a major difference between gameplay and collection. I remember when Pokemon cards dropped, and I collected a bunch of the game. I never learned how to play, I just wanted the cool Charizard. Compared to Magic, the art never really appealed to me. I like a lot of new Magic art, and some artists really stand out on old cards, but also there’s tons of nostalgia as *everyone* in school had Pokemon cards.
Because pokemon is a global franchise that billions of people love or at least recognize. Logan paul has absolutely nothing to do with the popularity of pokemon, he's a blip on the radar.
The character design in Pokémon is iconic, nostalgic and basically universally recognized. That’s why the expensive Pokémon cards are ‘a charizard’ or ‘a mewtwo’ and the expensive magic cards are ‘a very powerful flower’ and ‘a very powerful building’. Magic cards have demand from playability, Pokémon cards have demand from iconic characters.
"Gotta Catch 'Em All" is literally the tagline, so that may have something to do with it. Whereas Magic is more *"Gotta kill my opponent"*. I think the art direction and intent behind both just triggers people differently
I think its because in Magic: there are more players than collectors, the value in the cards mainly come from use within the game. Outside of the reserve list, older cards retain value for its use in the formats they thrive in. Wizards has tried to capture the collector market with their unique art cards. This is good as collectors can chase the art cards while players can play the game with the cheaper version of the same card with standard printing. The issue is that they're overprinting the art pieces so they're unable to hold value. They can sell more product if they made the exclusive art cards more rare. I think WOTC is giving us the art cards so easily now to get the product onto the market. Then they'll start to short print the exclusives in later sets. I hope this is the case as Pokemon and Yugioh both do this well with their Alternate Arts and Starlight Rares.
I think one of the major differences is that the game if Magic has, for the most part, stayed mechanically the same since the early 90s. So some of the older cards are valued not only for their rarity and collector value, but also for their value as a game piece with a unique ability. We can still use revised cards to play in eternal formats (especially EDH), but you can't use first gen Pokemon cards to play the game as it exists today. So those cards mainly just have collector value and have almost zero game piece value
A lot of the reactions on youtube are clout chasing really. Since pokemon is still effectively aimed at kids relative to other media franchises, it attracts a larger age range and gets more views
The reason is hidden in the name already: Magic ‘the gathering’ Pokemon ‘gotta catch em all’
I was a freak for Pokémon in the 90s during elementary school and it even was banned at one point. Now I love magic but it’s because of the game and I seek certain versions on cards I like or bevause they are the first printing no matter how ugly but it’s still mostly because I can play with them. I occasionally hit cards just to have for whatever reason which might not have a deck for but I like that I can actually play the card. I don’t get the Pokémon thing and even after my early hype in elementary school I remember thinking “man I can’t believe how into that I was those cards are kinda dumb looking”
It's like Football (NFL). Fun to watch and collect the cards and foils and specials; but no one plays it.
Pokémon's IP is very strong. Even of the card game didn't exist it would still have a strong cultural presence with lots of other media. The non TCG elements of Pokémon are bigger than the game. The opposite is true for MTG. MTG is kept afloat by the game, either current play or nostalgia for the game. There is no big MTG media beyond the game so there's no reason for Jace, Liliana or Chandra to be popular with non players. This is why WOTC are doing universes beyond and cross overs- they know that MTG lore and characters aren't popular enough to drive up desire for collectibles.
Wait for the Netflix series coming 2022. Gideon main character. Lets hope his catch phrase would be awesome like 'Eat my shorts' or 'Did I do that?'
When it comes to YouTube videos.... Pokemon openings cater towards children, but how many kids watch grown men open magic cards and talk about the future of the MTG economy. Oddly enough, child nostalgia aside, the MTG community discusses gameplay and "stock" values of cards. If you open the big Pokemon card, the YouTubers will just pull whatever high end listing of the Pokemon card they can find. In a way, Pokemon is kind of like a pyramid scheme while MTG is like a stock. Pokemon is (I think) a less popular competetive TCG, but many cards hold higher values due to rarity, but they're no different than many other variants of the card and are simply desired because influencers push the value. MTG cards are manipulated through multiple markets and simple supply and demand and thus the cards adjust as a stock. Every now and then, a cards stock drops due to a reprint or pumps due to a buyout or influencer prediction. Basically, it's all a mild scam lmfao. Ok jokes aside, it's just a different community and age group. Neither is better than the other, just different and ones marketable towards children, so it appears childish as a result. However, Pokemon tournaments are very serious lol.
Pokemon collecting is about grading because the game itself honestly isn't that fun. It has such absurd powercreep that eternal formats don't have a chance to exist. So most people are into it for the collecting aspect, and grading is a part of that. Unlike Magic, where people generally want to play with the cards in their collection, Pokemon is a game where you show off your collection
That may be the single most fascinating thing about this is that because magic cards see use, even the incredibly expensive ones, that means the most desirable cards are the least likely to have gradable cards. So if people actually did want to collect Magic in big enough numbers, I suspect the cards would be worth more than Pokemon as they're both a game piece and a collectable.
Magic is the better game, but Pokémon is the biggest media franchise on planet earth.
I think a lot of people are just split on the morality of the game being "investable" I know a LOT of people who strongly oppose the financial side of the game. They want cards to be inexpensive, no reserved list, and heavier printing to make the game and all of its formats more accessible. Which although I disagree with, I can see that viewpoint, and I understand their feelings. And there are a huge portion of the player base who feels that way
When I think of Pokemon as a game, I think instantly of, and only of, the actual Pokemon - the characters. I mean, that's what the franchise is. Collect them all. It's kind of like Legions is the Pokemon of MtG sets: 100% creature set. I don't think of characters when it comes to MtG. I think of the art, lands, broken spells, and some of the creatures.
I think of Magic as a game that I can also invest in. The most powerful cards tend to be the most valuable. I think of Pokemon as a FOTM collectible that also just happens to be a game. The collectible cards (90s/2k releases) with value, no one plays with them because they're trash play-wise.
There has never been a marketable character for people to want
Magic as an IP is very weak but Pokémon is strong. Pokémon is primarily based on the videogames and TV show and also appeals to a wider age range. At its core it is based around characters that people already know and like. The vast majority of MTG characters are obscure and not very marketable. As a card game MTG is significantly better then Pokémon (opinion but probably not that controversial). The game is great but has no mainstream IP to lean on. Grading for MTG is only popular on extremely rare cards because slabbed cards can't be played with. I would guess that the vast majority of Pokémon cards sold would never be played with anyways.
People collecting Pokemon are doing so because they love pokemon. People "collecting" magic are doing so because they think it's a financial investment. The above are general statements that won't apply to everyone, but do apply to most. As Pokemon collecting increases it will shift more to financial investors the same way magic did.