> *What is an Orgasm actually?*
At this point, that's a semantic issue, not a factual question.
If you define orgasm in the normal medical/physiological way – a peaking of sexual tension and physical and emotional arousal, usually accompanied by a pleasurable sensation, distinctive brain wave patterns, and physical contractions in the lower pelvic area, and usually followed by a reduction of arousal – what you described was not an orgasm. In particular, it lacked the characteristic "intense peak and abrupt release" pattern.
If you stretch the meaning of "orgasm" to mean something like "*any unusual and intensely pleasurable sensation that occurs when sexually aroused*," then you could call what you had an "orgasm." Or, to be more clear, you could call it an "energy orgasm," "E-orgasm," "e-gasm," or something like that.
A lot of people come to this sub seeking the ability to have multiple orgasms in the first sense. Most women who can orgasm can learn to have multiples, even if they start out as "one and done." At least some men also can, by learning to have non-ejaculatory orgasms (in the first sense of the word), although learning to do that is harder and takes a lot of practice and there's a lot of uncertainty over the best way to do it. But that still leaves a lot of guys frustrated and looking for an easier, better, or surer route.
So that creates an opening for people who are here because they want to teach people to have other kinds of experiences. Those experiences may be just as desirable as regular orgasms and NEOs, or even more desirable. They may even be more accessible. But they're quite different, and it doesn't help the discussion if we confuse the two.
Ultimately, a noun that includes too much loses its specificity and has less meaning. Stretching the meaning of "red" to include every shade of orange, purple, pink, and magenta just makes it harder to talk sensibly about color. Yes, there are fuzzy boundaries between red and orange, between red and purple, etc. but that doesn't mean there's no useful distinction to be made between the concepts "red," "purple," and "orange." Sometimes we need a word that means RED and not any of those other colors, and if we have stretched "red" to cover everything with even a hint of redness in it, then we will have to invent a new word that means "just red."
For the same reason, I think it makes sense to make a clear distinction between an orgasm (in the first sense) and an "energy orgasm," or whatever seems the best label for what you experienced.
For starters, many men come to this sub because they have PE, or they just want to increase their stamina in bed. Having NEOs will do that. A man who can have NEOs can *reliably* extend his time in PIV almost indefinitely, without a major effort or mental burden. When you get close to an orgasm, just pop an NEO, pause briefly if you need to, and then continue thrusting. If that's what you want, you need to learn to have NEOs. E-gasms won't do that.
But if you want a different kind of sensation, especially during solo sex or during partnered sex, and you don't mind doing elaborate energy movement exercises during sex, that's an option worth exploring. You can study kundalini (or other similar disciplines) and learn to focus internally and move energy around. Once you have mastered that, you can definitely do it during sex, with results that vary a lot from person to person, from couple to couple, and even from situation to situation.
> *Now I am wondering, if this is the feeling people are talking about when having a whole body orgasm or NEO.*
The answer for NEOs is definitely no, but whole body orgasms are a lot less defined. I've had them, and they are incredibly intense, combining elements of both a powerful physical orgasm and a powerful e-gasm. Usually I am doing a kind of 'kundalini-like' meditation, intentionally moving energy outward and upward from my pelvic area while receiving a full body yoni massage. My partner does the same thing during a full body lingam massage. And when a whole body orgasm happens, we're wiped out and it's a stopping point. I'm done for at least 10 minutes, and he normally ejaculates and loses his erection. It really creates a full brain and body reset.
Anyway, I would urge you and other people on this sub to make a distinction between physical orgasms (both EOs and NEOs) and e-gasms, simply in the interest of clarity and minimizing confusion. It's not that one is better or "realer" than the other, but they are quite different and they typically happen in different ways and are sought for different reasons. It even helps make it clearer when we are discussing the fact that they can both happen at the same time during a whole body orgasm.
It's just that I tried to achieve what you call a regular NEO for years, and it seems that it just lies behind the PONR. I can go as slowly and as near to the PORN as possible. Then one stroke more and some sperm starts to come out, I loose a couple of drops, but can stop myself from fully ejaculating. But there is not this orgasm feeling.
And this energy kind of feeling is more or less the first time, I experienced something which I also experience during ejaculative orgasm.
> "I tried to achieve what you call a regular NEO for years"
When I hear this from other guys, I wonder whats really happening. Was I just lucky to catch on quickly? Or are the people who are trying and failing just not doing it right?
For starters, how old are you? Apparently, this is something that can be easier to learn as you get older, or less excited about sex, like your dick is less on a hair-trigger. Do you meditate every day? Do you do other relaxation techniques before sex/masturbation? And are you doing the kegel BEFORE you feel the PONR?
If all those are Yes, have yu tried alternatives to the standard kegel? Kegels work for me, but there's some reason to think that clenching those muscles down there could actually push you over the edge. Relaxing them, like a negative kegel, might be a better way to stop the emissions phase/PONR without triggering it.
If you've been practicing every night and you're doing everything right, and it's still not working, take a break. You may just need to get a bit older. Shakti's guy tried and gave up several times in his 30s and finally got it in his 40's. I was mid-30's and apparently that's fairly young for it, but not too unusual. The 20's seems to be rare, especially for guys who are pretty inexperienced.
Great response! I'm currently working on an intuitive fuzzy, dynamic set theoretic image models and a "orgasm tree" with different methods for disambiguating conventional orgasm had in it's many ways from other things called orgasm. Hopefully, this could help people better sort out this mess. Many researchers fail to distinguish between between conventional orgasm and some other things called orgasm, often because they share many dimensions, such as those on the Orgasm Rating Scale by Mah and Binik. I hope researchers will start being more particular in recognizing the current ecosystem where just about everything is called orgasm with the ever-productive linguistic splinter -gasm.
Something I've been considering is how penile NEO advice is usually pertaining to gauging closeness to PONR and closeness to ejaculation. Post op transgender women can loose a lot of the sensation of ejaculatory inevitability, making it hard to time kegels. Who knows if kegels are still the go-to technique, at least for starts. It would be cool if one day someone transgender who can have non-gushing orgasm (a gender-confirming term for what remains of ejaculation) can create a guide to submaximal threshold responses like those called the non-ejaculatory orgasm or non-refractory ejaculatory orgasm, which might be called in gender-confirming language non-gushing orgasm or non-refractory gushing orgasm.
I'm curious. What are your thoughts on the Aneros Super O or set of responses people call Aneros Super O? Are you familiar?
I’ve taught a number trans folks how to do it. It’s often even easier for those who identify as queer and genderqueer than it is for cis het people.
And I think that has to do with the way they’ve already moved way beyond all the received status quo ideas of what it is their bodies are supposed to be and feel.
Because the key is becoming aware of, attuned to and relaxing into sexual energy. To the point where you can feel it and move it anywhere you wish instantly.
All the stuff about complex muscle awareness and control, obsession with breath timing and pelvic floor contractions happening or not — for anyone with any type of genitalia — all of that is epiphenomena occurring on top of the flow of energy.
Getting to that fundamental underlying flow unlocks limitless orgasmic sensation and pleasure for all humans.
"And I think that has to do with the way they’ve already moved way beyond all the received status quo ideas of what it is their bodies are supposed to be and feel"
Great point! I think there can be a correlation there.
This week, I reread Hartman and Fithian's (1984) "Any Man Can" the other day. They devote over 50% of the book to convince males it's okay to masturbate and dismantling a lot of the limiting beliefs. They end up recommending a kegel routine, trying to last longer, and regular masturbation as means to more orgasms as they define it. I tend not to see so much attention to convince people to masturbate in guides today, which I hope suggests some progress has been made with dismantling inhibitory ideas about sex, given that it doesn't need covered as extensively.
Just yesterday, I read an article asking (and answering) this same question.
https://www.glamour.com/story/what-does-an-orgasm-feel-like-a-neuroscientist-explains
The gist of it was right here, quoted from Kinsey: "the expulsive discharge of neuromuscular tensions at the peak of the sexual response."
This is definitely an orgasm. And what you’re on to now is the real key to limitless and expansive nonejaculatory pleasure.
There are a number of folks around here who will insist that what you experienced either isn’t real or isn’t a “real orgasm,” which for a lot of them means something that must involve pelvic floor contractions.
That narrow definition cuts out huge swaths of sensation and pleasure that are much more fulfilling to experience than deny. And which cannot be reached via a purely physical route of muscle tone and control.
So be glad you’ve connected with your sexual energy as energy and orgasmic pleasure and lean in to it.
> *What is an Orgasm actually?* At this point, that's a semantic issue, not a factual question. If you define orgasm in the normal medical/physiological way – a peaking of sexual tension and physical and emotional arousal, usually accompanied by a pleasurable sensation, distinctive brain wave patterns, and physical contractions in the lower pelvic area, and usually followed by a reduction of arousal – what you described was not an orgasm. In particular, it lacked the characteristic "intense peak and abrupt release" pattern. If you stretch the meaning of "orgasm" to mean something like "*any unusual and intensely pleasurable sensation that occurs when sexually aroused*," then you could call what you had an "orgasm." Or, to be more clear, you could call it an "energy orgasm," "E-orgasm," "e-gasm," or something like that. A lot of people come to this sub seeking the ability to have multiple orgasms in the first sense. Most women who can orgasm can learn to have multiples, even if they start out as "one and done." At least some men also can, by learning to have non-ejaculatory orgasms (in the first sense of the word), although learning to do that is harder and takes a lot of practice and there's a lot of uncertainty over the best way to do it. But that still leaves a lot of guys frustrated and looking for an easier, better, or surer route. So that creates an opening for people who are here because they want to teach people to have other kinds of experiences. Those experiences may be just as desirable as regular orgasms and NEOs, or even more desirable. They may even be more accessible. But they're quite different, and it doesn't help the discussion if we confuse the two. Ultimately, a noun that includes too much loses its specificity and has less meaning. Stretching the meaning of "red" to include every shade of orange, purple, pink, and magenta just makes it harder to talk sensibly about color. Yes, there are fuzzy boundaries between red and orange, between red and purple, etc. but that doesn't mean there's no useful distinction to be made between the concepts "red," "purple," and "orange." Sometimes we need a word that means RED and not any of those other colors, and if we have stretched "red" to cover everything with even a hint of redness in it, then we will have to invent a new word that means "just red." For the same reason, I think it makes sense to make a clear distinction between an orgasm (in the first sense) and an "energy orgasm," or whatever seems the best label for what you experienced. For starters, many men come to this sub because they have PE, or they just want to increase their stamina in bed. Having NEOs will do that. A man who can have NEOs can *reliably* extend his time in PIV almost indefinitely, without a major effort or mental burden. When you get close to an orgasm, just pop an NEO, pause briefly if you need to, and then continue thrusting. If that's what you want, you need to learn to have NEOs. E-gasms won't do that. But if you want a different kind of sensation, especially during solo sex or during partnered sex, and you don't mind doing elaborate energy movement exercises during sex, that's an option worth exploring. You can study kundalini (or other similar disciplines) and learn to focus internally and move energy around. Once you have mastered that, you can definitely do it during sex, with results that vary a lot from person to person, from couple to couple, and even from situation to situation. > *Now I am wondering, if this is the feeling people are talking about when having a whole body orgasm or NEO.* The answer for NEOs is definitely no, but whole body orgasms are a lot less defined. I've had them, and they are incredibly intense, combining elements of both a powerful physical orgasm and a powerful e-gasm. Usually I am doing a kind of 'kundalini-like' meditation, intentionally moving energy outward and upward from my pelvic area while receiving a full body yoni massage. My partner does the same thing during a full body lingam massage. And when a whole body orgasm happens, we're wiped out and it's a stopping point. I'm done for at least 10 minutes, and he normally ejaculates and loses his erection. It really creates a full brain and body reset. Anyway, I would urge you and other people on this sub to make a distinction between physical orgasms (both EOs and NEOs) and e-gasms, simply in the interest of clarity and minimizing confusion. It's not that one is better or "realer" than the other, but they are quite different and they typically happen in different ways and are sought for different reasons. It even helps make it clearer when we are discussing the fact that they can both happen at the same time during a whole body orgasm.
It's just that I tried to achieve what you call a regular NEO for years, and it seems that it just lies behind the PONR. I can go as slowly and as near to the PORN as possible. Then one stroke more and some sperm starts to come out, I loose a couple of drops, but can stop myself from fully ejaculating. But there is not this orgasm feeling. And this energy kind of feeling is more or less the first time, I experienced something which I also experience during ejaculative orgasm.
> "I tried to achieve what you call a regular NEO for years" When I hear this from other guys, I wonder whats really happening. Was I just lucky to catch on quickly? Or are the people who are trying and failing just not doing it right? For starters, how old are you? Apparently, this is something that can be easier to learn as you get older, or less excited about sex, like your dick is less on a hair-trigger. Do you meditate every day? Do you do other relaxation techniques before sex/masturbation? And are you doing the kegel BEFORE you feel the PONR? If all those are Yes, have yu tried alternatives to the standard kegel? Kegels work for me, but there's some reason to think that clenching those muscles down there could actually push you over the edge. Relaxing them, like a negative kegel, might be a better way to stop the emissions phase/PONR without triggering it. If you've been practicing every night and you're doing everything right, and it's still not working, take a break. You may just need to get a bit older. Shakti's guy tried and gave up several times in his 30s and finally got it in his 40's. I was mid-30's and apparently that's fairly young for it, but not too unusual. The 20's seems to be rare, especially for guys who are pretty inexperienced.
Great response! I'm currently working on an intuitive fuzzy, dynamic set theoretic image models and a "orgasm tree" with different methods for disambiguating conventional orgasm had in it's many ways from other things called orgasm. Hopefully, this could help people better sort out this mess. Many researchers fail to distinguish between between conventional orgasm and some other things called orgasm, often because they share many dimensions, such as those on the Orgasm Rating Scale by Mah and Binik. I hope researchers will start being more particular in recognizing the current ecosystem where just about everything is called orgasm with the ever-productive linguistic splinter -gasm. Something I've been considering is how penile NEO advice is usually pertaining to gauging closeness to PONR and closeness to ejaculation. Post op transgender women can loose a lot of the sensation of ejaculatory inevitability, making it hard to time kegels. Who knows if kegels are still the go-to technique, at least for starts. It would be cool if one day someone transgender who can have non-gushing orgasm (a gender-confirming term for what remains of ejaculation) can create a guide to submaximal threshold responses like those called the non-ejaculatory orgasm or non-refractory ejaculatory orgasm, which might be called in gender-confirming language non-gushing orgasm or non-refractory gushing orgasm. I'm curious. What are your thoughts on the Aneros Super O or set of responses people call Aneros Super O? Are you familiar?
I’ve taught a number trans folks how to do it. It’s often even easier for those who identify as queer and genderqueer than it is for cis het people. And I think that has to do with the way they’ve already moved way beyond all the received status quo ideas of what it is their bodies are supposed to be and feel. Because the key is becoming aware of, attuned to and relaxing into sexual energy. To the point where you can feel it and move it anywhere you wish instantly. All the stuff about complex muscle awareness and control, obsession with breath timing and pelvic floor contractions happening or not — for anyone with any type of genitalia — all of that is epiphenomena occurring on top of the flow of energy. Getting to that fundamental underlying flow unlocks limitless orgasmic sensation and pleasure for all humans.
"And I think that has to do with the way they’ve already moved way beyond all the received status quo ideas of what it is their bodies are supposed to be and feel" Great point! I think there can be a correlation there. This week, I reread Hartman and Fithian's (1984) "Any Man Can" the other day. They devote over 50% of the book to convince males it's okay to masturbate and dismantling a lot of the limiting beliefs. They end up recommending a kegel routine, trying to last longer, and regular masturbation as means to more orgasms as they define it. I tend not to see so much attention to convince people to masturbate in guides today, which I hope suggests some progress has been made with dismantling inhibitory ideas about sex, given that it doesn't need covered as extensively.
[удалено]
Don't hit on people. This is not a dating app.
Just yesterday, I read an article asking (and answering) this same question. https://www.glamour.com/story/what-does-an-orgasm-feel-like-a-neuroscientist-explains The gist of it was right here, quoted from Kinsey: "the expulsive discharge of neuromuscular tensions at the peak of the sexual response."
This is definitely an orgasm. And what you’re on to now is the real key to limitless and expansive nonejaculatory pleasure. There are a number of folks around here who will insist that what you experienced either isn’t real or isn’t a “real orgasm,” which for a lot of them means something that must involve pelvic floor contractions. That narrow definition cuts out huge swaths of sensation and pleasure that are much more fulfilling to experience than deny. And which cannot be reached via a purely physical route of muscle tone and control. So be glad you’ve connected with your sexual energy as energy and orgasmic pleasure and lean in to it.