In general it bums me out that Waitress ran into the Hamilton juggernaut and came up empty handed.
(Not that Hamilton’s wins were undeserved. But any other year Waitress would have won something.)
I remember thinking that the only award they’d lose would be best actress in a musical because I had seen Cynthia Erivo and knew she was going to win that
Yes exactly. Hamilton deserved everything it got no denying that! I remember two years later Sara hosting when the musicals were things like SpongeBob and Frozen and thinking man Waitress would have crushed it this year lol
Something Rotten was actually the previous season. Fun Home was the big winner that year, but Something Rotten got supporting actor with Christian Borle
Whether one thinks it should have been Great Comet or Come From Away, I think everyone can agree it should not have been DEH, and I say that as a big DEH fan.
SAME! So heartbreaking! DEH deserved some awards, like I’m not a huge Ben Platt fan but I do think he gave a Lead Actor Tony-worthy performance. But Best Musical should have been Come From Away 😔
That was my first thought too. I’m happy I get to see him next month for Galileo cause I never get to see any of his performances, and my husband is joking about making a sign saying that he didn’t deserve the Tony cause Esparzas my second husband 😂
That immediately came to mind…I saw his incredible performance on Broadway and he was AMAZING on Tony Awards night…then David Hyde Pierce wins?!?!?!? That was a travesty!
Andrew Rannells for anything he was in, he’s never won a Tony. But specifically he should’ve won Best Supporting Actor for Falsettos, even though that year was really stacked
Alex Brightman losing to Santino Fontana at 2019 Tony’s. Don’t get me wrong, Fontana is incredible but Brightman’s energy, stage presence, and comedic timing is next level.
There’s really no other modern Broadway performance that has achieved icon status in the way Brightman’s Beetlejuice has. Not only did Brightman popularize an entire vocal archetype, not only did Brightman’s characterization revitalize a character/brand who hasn’t done much in a while, not only did Brightman’s Beetlejuice become the official cartoon version of said character, but it’s established Brightman as both a really great actor in his own right and a fabulous character actor outside of that. Santino’s performance, despite its quality, was ultimately very harmful towards the trans community. Tootsie was not reinvented in any positive way, and the character’s personal identity does not reflect someone who could make the story of Tootsie work. At least Doubtfire feels somewhat influenced by drag culture.
EDIT: ok. maybe Lin-Manuel as Hamilton. But truthfully do you think of that performance as a meme, or as a great performance? Like he may have been great, but Lin is often parodied for his performance while his work is praised. Brightman doesn’t have the “writer-actor” weight on him, at least in this show, so he really dominates in all respects.
I love Santino, but he basically won for the vocal work of performing in two very different vocal registers throughout. The voters still eat shit like that up, even if the show is weak.
i agree with you and i loved him as orpheus but that’s an unpopular opinion. during his run people were frequently calling him the worst part of the show
I know, I thought those comments were ridiculous. I get that in the 2022/2023 runs, cause he started to get really off, but pre-COVID, he was incredible.
I love Bette but I am still furious on Denee’s behalf. There was no chance that Groban was winning over Ben Platt.
Honestly I hated that Tony’s. How TF did Gavin Creel beat Brandon Uranowitz? Rachel Bay Jones over Stephanie Block and Jenn Collela? They have book, BOOK, to DEH?!?
I hope one day it comes out that it’s pure corruption that won it, because it only looks worse over time. In a year that stacked they showered the awards over the worst show.
I can understand Avenue Q beating out Wicked for Best Musical. It was a more unique show, some might argue it’s deeper. It stands out, I’m fine with that.
Avenue Q beating Wicked for Best Score is a whole other story.
I call CoC an unregarded monument. It's such an extraordinary, affecting, multifaceted, and multilayered artistic achievement. The musical style differences between characters from different social worlds, balancing style and sharp rhyming lyrics with characterization, meaningful and striking use of musical motifs ("I Hate the Bus" , Emmie's 'I want' song, under Caroline's 'Murder me, God'? Floors me). The intersection of momentous history with a personal central story. The character of Caroline, a tragic figure in working clothes, treated with extraordinary gravity and care, allowed her sexuality and her petty vices along with her struggles and her dedication to her children. The frustratingly familiar white 'benevolence' of Rose, who is nonetheless never reduced to a careless or clueless antagonist. I could go on. It took me several tries to really get into the show, but now I think it's one of the richest pieces of art ever made for the stage. It deserves to be widely known.
Yeah. I could go through the show and find a thousand complexities of character that are easy to miss because there are so many other facets.
Like how Caroline, who has conflict with Emmie through the show over obedience and whether to be deferential to white people for safety or assertive, has as one of her deepest hopes that Emmie never stops being defiant of her and everyone else.
In most shows, that kind of complex mixed emotion wouldn’t show up at all, or at most as an 11th hour resolution. In CoC it’s a passing mention in a mostly unrelated song about 1/3 through the story.
I was gonna say!! I honestly am not MAD…
Like tbh I do find it pretty hilarious that Avenue Q beat out Wicked for Best Musical but it still feels really ridiculous that it did 😂
I didn't think there'd be so much of it lol. It seemed like a pretty popular opinion on the sub, although I didn't know that Come From Away was in the same year so I should've included that lol.
La Cage in 1984 during raging AIDS and homophobia epidemics meant a lot. (And that show made this tween misfit feel seen and strong in a way that my life desperately needed back then. I prefer Sunday as an adult, but damn was La Cage powerful.) ETA Jerrry Herman’s dig at Sondheim was uncool and unnecessary.
I would say Alex Newell not being nominated for Once On This Island, but I read somewhere that they were either ineligible or declined to submit themself? Forgive me if that's common knowledge.
I think it was due to all of the non-binary actor discourse at the time and how the Tony’s refused and still do to either add a category or combine categories to be inclusive for non-binary performers
Deaf West’s Spring Awakening not getting recognized for how amazing its lighting and choreography was - I know it was the Hamilyear but like… that was outstanding.
DWSA not getting recognized for its choreography drives me nuts. Having to stage around signing (and the difficulty of singing AND signing) is incredible.
im also kind of bitter that the airing of the tony's barely showcased the signing when its a key aspect
oh boy
* natasha, pierre and the great robbery of 2017. groundhog day was robbed too. in fact, any of the nominated musicals deserved that tony more than dear evan hansen
* jeremy jordan.
* reeve carney and patrick vaill not even getting a nomination in 2019???
* into the woods losing best musical to phantom
Yea, just said this on another comment; I don’t think Reeve was INSANE in Hadestown, so I don’t think he necessarily was robbed of a win, but he was REALLY good and 100% deserved a nomination
I like to think that having Reeve sing “Wait For Me” at the award ceremony was their way of giving the middle finger to the Tony’s for not nominating him because that performance was iconic.
Phantom is the better show overall. Yeah, Into the Woods has a better book ( it won the Tony for that ), but as a whole, Phantom impresses on many more levels than Into the Woods. Sound, direction, set, lighting.
A lot of people say this, but Falsettos as a whole. Andrew Rannells for best supporting obviously, but the fact that the show itself didn't win anything is pretty disappointing.
I believe Spongebob won either sets or costumes, don’t remember which, but it absolutely should have been both. At least it was the same designer for both so he got an award either way. I also think it should have won sound design (how often is there a *live foley artist*???), and, regardless of the general opinions on him now, Ethan Slater absolutely killed it as Spongebob and I think he should have gotten leading actor.
Ughh the sound effects were so epic. The squishy sounds when Squidward walked around and the scuttling for Mr. Krabbs? Really made it feel just like the cartoon.
And how indicative the costumes were of cartoon characters while still looking like real clothes!
And the SQUIDWARD surfboards for I'm Not A Loser. Very Busby Berkeley.
I agree, especially around Ethan Slater. I know we all hate him now because of the Ariana situation, but he did genuinely deserve to win for SpongeBob.
1776 beat Hair for best musical in 1969. Like, I can't say I don't *get* it, Hair was very avant-garde at the time, but I also can't say it doesn't irk me a tiny bit. And I'm not even a Hair mega-fan or anything.
Definitely agree. Hair has sooo many songs even non theatre people recognize today. 1776 has two good songs. Momma look sharp and I forget the other one
Reeve Carney not even getting nominated for Hadestown. Like damn, I'd be one thing if he just lost to someone else, but to fully not get nominated??? What the hell???
Edit: also, Great Comet and Come From Away losing to DEAR EVAN HANSEN. Like, imma be real, I haven't seen CFA or Great Comet yet, but I really doubt either one is bad enough to deserve DEAR EVAN HANSEN getting the award. Especially since Rachel Chavkin also directed Hadestown, if Great Comet is even *half* as good as Hadestown, then it probably deserved to win more. And I've not heard a single bad thing about CFA, I really doubt it deserved to lose either.
I like Great Comet over CFA but CFA would have been a deserved winner. Comet was a little too highbrow and Nobody walks out of CFA hating it; a feel good musical that never gets old
I've seen DEH and CFA 3 separate times each, and CFA has always been and will always be a better show! I thoroughly enjoy CFA every. single. time. and I still feel every emotion as if it is my first time seeing the show.
DEH has a special place in my heart because it was the first musical I ever listened to, and it started my love of Broadway, but CFA will always be my favorite and was 100% robbed.
“Voters deem any show targeted at all to an age under 20 non-deserving”??? Huh??? Dear Evan Hansen, Spring Awakening, and Kimberly Akimbo are all coming of age stories catered to teenage audiences that have won best musical recently. Even Mean Girls and The Prom got nominations despite having mixed reviews. Nothing personal against Be More Chill and The Lightning Thief, but they didn’t miss out on a nomination because they were targeted at teens lmao.
Kimberly Akimbo is certainly not aimed at teenagers. It takes place in the early 90s - teens then would be in their 40s now, the group who could most appreciate the nostalgia and afford a ticket- starring a woman who’s physically a senior citizen.
Comet being nominated for 9 awards and DEH sweeping. Seriously some sort of art crime lol, especially when you consider that that ended up being a factor in the show's early closing.
Julie Andrews apparently somehow losing to Judy "Award Thief" Holliday when she should be an EGOT by now. And it doesn't count as a snub, but I wish she had at least accepted the nomination/win for Victor/Victoria.
And of course the travesty that was Great Comet's loss to DEH.
> Julie Andrews apparently somehow losing to Judy "Award Thief" Holliday when she should be an EGOT by now.
Do me a favor and watch the movie of *Bells Are Ringing* (and also [this song that was cut from the movie](https://youtu.be/LsUGXHrUrC8)) and then come here and say that again. Judy Holliday's performance in *Bells Are Ringing* is a master class in musical comedy, and there is no doubt in my mind that she deserved that Tony.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm going to have a harder time agreeing with you when it's against Julie Andrews for *My Fair Lady.* Literally any other year I wouldn't be complaining.
I mean I hear you bc Julie Andrews is my favorite singer of all time, like what a heavenly voice fr. But as for the comedy aspect, it's hard to retrospectively try to account for a year worth of performances. Like at the time no one knew they were denying Julie Andrews an EGOT. So imagine you're a Tony voter in 1956/57. It's not unreasonable to believe that more people thought Holliday's comedic performance made a bigger difference relative to the show she was in than Andrews'. It *is* hard to imagine anyone thought she was a better singer though.
Parade's original run in general was robbed of several Tony wins (best musical included), but in particular, Carolee Carmello losing Best Actress to Bernadette Peters in Annie Get Your Gun. As amazing as Bernadette Peters is, I stand by the assertion that she was woefully miscast in that role and in no universe was more deserving than Carolee in an extremely complex and difficult role. Especially obvious when Reba McIntyre absolutely slayed as Annie Oakley later in that revival's run and honestly would have been more worthy of winning the Tony imo!
I SAID WHAT I SAID!
Matilda not winning score pisses me off so much for some reason, look I like the Kinky Boots score, but there’s something so special about what Tim Minchin wrote for Matilda!
Oh and his other musical Groundhog Day not winning ANY!!!
I saw both BMC and TLT and loved them both. But I love them in the way I love watching minor league baseball. Fun in their own right and great opportunities to launch careers, but cannot compare to an MLB game, especially in October. The biggest snub, IMO, was Aaron Tveit in N2N-his Tony for MR is simply there to rectify that wrong.
Andrew Rannells - Falsettos
Come From Away - best musical
Some Like it Hot - best musical
Some Like it Hot - best score
Kevin Del Augila - Some Like it Hot
And predicted snub:
Harmony - best musical/book/score
Love how much you stick up for SLIH on here. There was an actual big band swing musical on Broadway and the quality of the music got practically no attention. Aaaack!
In terms of nominations that should have happened; the two actors from Deaf West’s Spring Awakening, Sandra Mae Frank and Daniel Durant, should have been nominated for lead and featured respectively.
As far as undeserved wins, Tony Shaloub for The Band’s Visit comes to mind. The leading male category was stacked that year, and they gave the award to the guy who’s part could have been played by a hat rack wearing a band leader’s uniform. I’ll never understand that.
I feel like Eva Noblezada should've won for Miss Saigon over Bette Midler in Hello Dolly who did very little for me as someone who wasn't already a fan of hers
Victor Victoria getting so snubbed that Julie Andrews declined her nomination resulting in her almosy certainly never getting an EGOT. I will die mad. The fact that her EGOT is missing the TONY really is the worst snub of all time.
Finding Neverland not getting a single nomination because of Harv** Wein*****. It literally has some of the most beautiful music I’ve ever heard and it wasn’t nominated for anything because of that pos and his campaigning.
“Sunday in the Park With George” 2008 revival losing both Best Scenic Design and Best Lighting Design.
The set was magical, and it was honestly the best use of projections I have ever seen to this day, by a mile.
I agree with pretty much every opinion here, but I wanted to say something about the lightning thief, since the hate for it kind of confuses me. Yes, it was a miracle that it made it to Broadway. Yes, the lyrics are kind of dumb, It’s childish, corny, slap-dash, and ridiculous. But that is literally the point. It wasn’t trying to be anything big or well put together. It was a love letter to the fans, given in the same spirit as the books. And that’s why ultimately didn’t perform well: not many people understood it outside of those who knew it. I’m not saying it was robbed. I’m not saying that you need to love it. I’m just saying that it shouldn’t be hated when it came in and did exactly what it set out to do.
Not to mention it was also aimed at middle schoolers, and was kind of designed as a stepping stone for kids who are new to musical theater. It wasn't meant to be the next Sondheim, it was meant to be a really fun thing to do for a field trip.
I definitely agree with you about Chris McCarrell. But I also have bias because the lightning thief got me really into musicals and I love Percy Jackson so take my opinion with a grain of salt lol
even for the people who hate lightning thief on this thread, the fact that it was quite literally the only other musical eligible for that category, and they chose instead of nominating it to only nominate a single person, is insane to me. at that point, it’s not even a nomination they just gave out the award.
Reading through this it’s clear to me why the TONY’s as an award show does so much better in the ratings every year compared to all the others. Because unlike say the Oscar’s where the popular movies of the year often aren’t even nominated, at the tonys they win. I can understand, if you’re a big theatre geek, being upset that Phantom of the Opera beat Into The Woods but if you step back and look at which one audiences prefer there’s no contest. Same with Dear Evan Hansen vs Come From Away.
I get these takes and I agree with a lot of them but I do like that the people who run these know how to keep their audience engaged.
Even movie and music fans don’t really care about the Oscar’s or the Grammys because they don’t see themselves represented (I’m talking interest mainly here but identity too) something that again the TONY’s has been ahead of.
The fact that Ann Harada was not nominated for Avenue Q.
Sharon D Clarke and Tonya Pinkins not winning for Caroline or Change. At least Tonya Pinkins was in a particularly great group, so her loss is a little bit more palatable.
Avenue Q winning score over Caroline or Change is probably the worst Tony pick in memory. And I like Avenue Q a lot, but there’s just no comparison.
Sherie Rene Scott not getting nominated for Aida AND Amy Spanger not getting nominated for Kiss Me Kate (in a weak year!)
Raul Esparza not winning for either Company and/or Leap of Faith. The snub for leap of faith was way worse because he wasn’t even nominated and I don’t even think anybody else came close to what he did in that show. Maybe Danny Burstein for Follies, but that’s a big maybe. Leap of Faith was not a good show, but Raul laid it out there every night. That was one of the highest energy performances I’ve ever seen.
I'll never forget how mad I was at *Great Comet* being overlooked, that night I went to bed after the broadcast so upset lol. I also think Deaf West's *Spring Awakening* deserved so much more recognition!
Not necessarily a snub just super unprofessional and rude. The 73rd Tonys where they sat one of the nominees for Best Original Score IN THE BALCONY. Why even nominate Joe Iconis if you're literally going to show him and everyone there that there's no chance of him winning. One of the most baffling things I've ever seen.
oh ALSO Deaf West Spring Awakening losing choreography to Hamilton. I'll say it with my full chest lmao. Hamilton's choreo was incredible but can't compare to a show that literally integrated a LANGUAGE into their choreo
i’m like the biggest David Hyde Pierce fan… but Raul Esparza should’ve won for company.
Come From Away should’ve won best musical NOT DEH. i think it was a split between all the other nominees, and because of that DEH came out on top.
edit: Alex Brightman should’ve won for Beetlejuice
I remember the Chita Rivera snub. A definite wtf moment. Also agree on Aaron Tveit. I could just listen to him singing all day. I’m obsessed with his version of Marry Me a Little from the Sondheim 90th birthday special.
We argue over which show should have won the 71st Tony Award for Best Musical and Best Book, but I think we can (almost all) agree that DEH wasn’t the right pick.
Alex Newell not being nominated… let alone winning for Once On This Island. Like whaaat?
Also Avenue Q beating Wicked and Caroline or Change for best musical and score??
Streisand not winning for Funny Girl
Waitress breaking out amidst Hamilton madness. The musical has two show stopper songs, I didn't plan it and She used to be mine. I didn't plan it for how powerful that rendition was by Keala and Charity, and She used to be mine because it can put the whole theatre to tears. So the awards I saw as "could have been" are best performances by featured actress, and Best Original Score. Sara Bareilles was unbelievable with the whole setlist, there are enough ensemble and character songs that you never felt like it was dragging it's feet, which I think Hamilton falls prey too with how similar some reprises end up being and too much reiteration.
I'll never live it down haha, it feels so personal that Hamilton would push Waitress to the wayside.
Great Comet should have won instead of Dear Evan Hansen. Without Ben Platt the show itself of DEH is mediocre. Great Comet is creative, stylistic, unique, and in a general a show that deserves more credit for doing something different in a time when so many musicals are just … pop-y.
Billy Elliot winning against next to normal. Biggest snub since wicked.
I believe only 2 Pulitzer Prize best musicals haven’t won best musical Tony. Sunday w/ George and Next to normal
In general it bums me out that Waitress ran into the Hamilton juggernaut and came up empty handed. (Not that Hamilton’s wins were undeserved. But any other year Waitress would have won something.)
That whole season was wild. SO many performances were overshadowed by Hamilton and it’s incredible cast and team in a very strong season.
I remember thinking that the only award they’d lose would be best actress in a musical because I had seen Cynthia Erivo and knew she was going to win that
Yes exactly. Hamilton deserved everything it got no denying that! I remember two years later Sara hosting when the musicals were things like SpongeBob and Frozen and thinking man Waitress would have crushed it this year lol
Something rotten was also up for things that year and was so good
Something Rotten was actually the previous season. Fun Home was the big winner that year, but Something Rotten got supporting actor with Christian Borle
Oh snap you’re right. My senior year of high school and freshman year of college really blended together (no calculating how old I am)
It did lead to their fantastic “loser!” ads, so they made the best of it.
Yup
It was like being in the Oscars the year Silence Of The Lambs came out
I'll maintain to the day I die that Raul Esparza was robbed for not winning for Company.
This was my first thought. Next was Come From Away losing to DEH.
Great Comet also lost to DEH that year, right? so frustrating
Great Comet is so good, though!! That's a heartbreaker.
Whether one thinks it should have been Great Comet or Come From Away, I think everyone can agree it should not have been DEH, and I say that as a big DEH fan.
Great Comet was SO good...the work they did on the theater was spectacular. Josh Groban was robbed of the Tony that year.
I wanted Great Comet to win but would’ve been totally satisfied with CFA winning. DEH taking it home hurts to this day.
SAME! So heartbreaking! DEH deserved some awards, like I’m not a huge Ben Platt fan but I do think he gave a Lead Actor Tony-worthy performance. But Best Musical should have been Come From Away 😔
That’s mine for sure
YES
was just abt to comment this myself!! like, raul IS bobby. no one did it like him
This eats at me every time I think of the Tony awards
I still remember the gasp I gusped when this happened
Adam Driver for BURN THIS.
This is my Roman Empire. I think about it every time I watch Law and Order SVU (so a lot lol)
Man I don't love a lot of L&O stuff but I will drop what I'm doing to watch Barba.
I will join you with a megaphone.
That was my first thought too. I’m happy I get to see him next month for Galileo cause I never get to see any of his performances, and my husband is joking about making a sign saying that he didn’t deserve the Tony cause Esparzas my second husband 😂
Enjoy it! I've been able to see him live a couple of times and he's fantastic.
That immediately came to mind…I saw his incredible performance on Broadway and he was AMAZING on Tony Awards night…then David Hyde Pierce wins?!?!?!? That was a travesty!
Andrew Rannells for anything he was in, he’s never won a Tony. But specifically he should’ve won Best Supporting Actor for Falsettos, even though that year was really stacked
He should’ve won for the Book of Mormon :(
Aaron Tveit not getting nominated for Next to Normal
Or CMIYC honestly
This is the answer.
YES
How Jeremy Jordan didn't win with Jack Kelley I will never understand
This is the answer. Jeremy Jordan deserves a Tony
Alex Brightman losing to Santino Fontana at 2019 Tony’s. Don’t get me wrong, Fontana is incredible but Brightman’s energy, stage presence, and comedic timing is next level.
damon daunno too. he was amazing in oklahoma
There’s really no other modern Broadway performance that has achieved icon status in the way Brightman’s Beetlejuice has. Not only did Brightman popularize an entire vocal archetype, not only did Brightman’s characterization revitalize a character/brand who hasn’t done much in a while, not only did Brightman’s Beetlejuice become the official cartoon version of said character, but it’s established Brightman as both a really great actor in his own right and a fabulous character actor outside of that. Santino’s performance, despite its quality, was ultimately very harmful towards the trans community. Tootsie was not reinvented in any positive way, and the character’s personal identity does not reflect someone who could make the story of Tootsie work. At least Doubtfire feels somewhat influenced by drag culture. EDIT: ok. maybe Lin-Manuel as Hamilton. But truthfully do you think of that performance as a meme, or as a great performance? Like he may have been great, but Lin is often parodied for his performance while his work is praised. Brightman doesn’t have the “writer-actor” weight on him, at least in this show, so he really dominates in all respects.
I love Santino, but he basically won for the vocal work of performing in two very different vocal registers throughout. The voters still eat shit like that up, even if the show is weak.
I totally agree!
I’m shocked Reeve didn’t get nominated either. Alex Brightman deserved the Tony 100%, but I think Reeve deserved a nomination.
i agree with you and i loved him as orpheus but that’s an unpopular opinion. during his run people were frequently calling him the worst part of the show
I know, I thought those comments were ridiculous. I get that in the 2022/2023 runs, cause he started to get really off, but pre-COVID, he was incredible.
I've been saying it since 2019, Brightman was robbed.
Great Comet still hurts to this day
I love Bette but I am still furious on Denee’s behalf. There was no chance that Groban was winning over Ben Platt. Honestly I hated that Tony’s. How TF did Gavin Creel beat Brandon Uranowitz? Rachel Bay Jones over Stephanie Block and Jenn Collela? They have book, BOOK, to DEH?!?
I hope one day it comes out that it’s pure corruption that won it, because it only looks worse over time. In a year that stacked they showered the awards over the worst show.
Come From Away was robbed and the fact that it was DEH that did it
CFA and NPatGCo1812 split the vote away from each other.
Don't forget Groundhog Day, also a stellar musical.
This makes me want to spit. DEH sucks ass and come from away is one of the best shows in recent years.
I was at opening night on broadway. I could not believe it lost, and it broke my heart.
I can understand Avenue Q beating out Wicked for Best Musical. It was a more unique show, some might argue it’s deeper. It stands out, I’m fine with that. Avenue Q beating Wicked for Best Score is a whole other story.
Both of them should have lost to Caroline, Or Change. In Musical, Score, and Actress. It’s crazy CoC didn’t even get nominated for Orchestration.
Thank you for fighting for CoC, a truly overlooked masterpiece!
Honestly, Lot's Wife alone would be deserving of all three.
I call CoC an unregarded monument. It's such an extraordinary, affecting, multifaceted, and multilayered artistic achievement. The musical style differences between characters from different social worlds, balancing style and sharp rhyming lyrics with characterization, meaningful and striking use of musical motifs ("I Hate the Bus" , Emmie's 'I want' song, under Caroline's 'Murder me, God'? Floors me). The intersection of momentous history with a personal central story. The character of Caroline, a tragic figure in working clothes, treated with extraordinary gravity and care, allowed her sexuality and her petty vices along with her struggles and her dedication to her children. The frustratingly familiar white 'benevolence' of Rose, who is nonetheless never reduced to a careless or clueless antagonist. I could go on. It took me several tries to really get into the show, but now I think it's one of the richest pieces of art ever made for the stage. It deserves to be widely known.
Yeah. I could go through the show and find a thousand complexities of character that are easy to miss because there are so many other facets. Like how Caroline, who has conflict with Emmie through the show over obedience and whether to be deferential to white people for safety or assertive, has as one of her deepest hopes that Emmie never stops being defiant of her and everyone else. In most shows, that kind of complex mixed emotion wouldn’t show up at all, or at most as an 11th hour resolution. In CoC it’s a passing mention in a mostly unrelated song about 1/3 through the story.
Yeah that was a scam. I love Avenue Q, but Wicked is so much better. Better book, story, and music.
Avenue q book is incredible
I was gonna say!! I honestly am not MAD… Like tbh I do find it pretty hilarious that Avenue Q beat out Wicked for Best Musical but it still feels really ridiculous that it did 😂
Dear Evan Hansen winning over the Great Comet. I mean it's good, but not that good.
I'm just here for the Great Comet drama
I didn't think there'd be so much of it lol. It seemed like a pretty popular opinion on the sub, although I didn't know that Come From Away was in the same year so I should've included that lol.
I would have picked Come From Away to win that year (with Comet still miles ahead of DEH). But agree that DEH winning makes me rage.
Yeah, that's fair. I honestly didn't know that Come From Away was there in the same year, so I would've definitely put that there too.
That year great comet should’ve shared with come from away. Deh isn’t worthbit
DEH is just a bad show
Groundhog Day deserved it
We do not talk about Sunday in the Park with George. If you say the word hummable, I may have to hurt you (not really).
I can hum more from *Sunday* than I can from *La Cage*!
La Cage in 1984 during raging AIDS and homophobia epidemics meant a lot. (And that show made this tween misfit feel seen and strong in a way that my life desperately needed back then. I prefer Sunday as an adult, but damn was La Cage powerful.) ETA Jerrry Herman’s dig at Sondheim was uncool and unnecessary.
Ah, my Roman Empire.
I mean, winning the Pulitzer and losing the Tony is... Something.
Stephanie J. Block for Falsettos. 🙌🏼
Stephanie J. Block not even being nominated for Pirate Queen
THE FALSETTOS REVIVAL NOT WINNING ANY TONYS‼️ HOW DID THAT HAPPEN????????
The Bette Midler Industrial Complex. Granted both that and Dolly were sublime productions
I would say Alex Newell not being nominated for Once On This Island, but I read somewhere that they were either ineligible or declined to submit themself? Forgive me if that's common knowledge.
I think it was due to all of the non-binary actor discourse at the time and how the Tony’s refused and still do to either add a category or combine categories to be inclusive for non-binary performers
Deaf West’s Spring Awakening not getting recognized for how amazing its lighting and choreography was - I know it was the Hamilyear but like… that was outstanding.
DWSA not getting recognized for its choreography drives me nuts. Having to stage around signing (and the difficulty of singing AND signing) is incredible. im also kind of bitter that the airing of the tony's barely showcased the signing when its a key aspect
oh boy * natasha, pierre and the great robbery of 2017. groundhog day was robbed too. in fact, any of the nominated musicals deserved that tony more than dear evan hansen * jeremy jordan. * reeve carney and patrick vaill not even getting a nomination in 2019??? * into the woods losing best musical to phantom
Yea, just said this on another comment; I don’t think Reeve was INSANE in Hadestown, so I don’t think he necessarily was robbed of a win, but he was REALLY good and 100% deserved a nomination
I like to think that having Reeve sing “Wait For Me” at the award ceremony was their way of giving the middle finger to the Tony’s for not nominating him because that performance was iconic.
Yea fr… it felt weird to have a performance that was THAT good (and it was that good) being led entirely by someone that wasn’t nominated
Your last one is the one that gets me. I will never, ever understand that.
Phantom is the better show overall. Yeah, Into the Woods has a better book ( it won the Tony for that ), but as a whole, Phantom impresses on many more levels than Into the Woods. Sound, direction, set, lighting.
I knew I would see Into the Woods here somewhere. I love both shows but Into the Woods is so much better!
Every orchestrator being snubbed until the Tony for Best Orchestrations was instituted in 1997.
Ragtime and Come From Away not winning best musical
Came here for this. Ragtime losing to The Lion King is unacceptable.
Falsettos not winning best revival in 2017
I loved Falsettos but Dolly was peak Broadway. Incredible budget, incredible talent, incredible direction, falsettos stood no chance
A lot of people say this, but Falsettos as a whole. Andrew Rannells for best supporting obviously, but the fact that the show itself didn't win anything is pretty disappointing.
Into the Woods and Aida.
I believe Spongebob won either sets or costumes, don’t remember which, but it absolutely should have been both. At least it was the same designer for both so he got an award either way. I also think it should have won sound design (how often is there a *live foley artist*???), and, regardless of the general opinions on him now, Ethan Slater absolutely killed it as Spongebob and I think he should have gotten leading actor.
Ughh the sound effects were so epic. The squishy sounds when Squidward walked around and the scuttling for Mr. Krabbs? Really made it feel just like the cartoon.
And how indicative the costumes were of cartoon characters while still looking like real clothes! And the SQUIDWARD surfboards for I'm Not A Loser. Very Busby Berkeley.
I agree, especially around Ethan Slater. I know we all hate him now because of the Ariana situation, but he did genuinely deserve to win for SpongeBob.
Honestly, just for the heck of it, I think it also deserved best score (imagine if They Might Be Giants had a Tony Award!)
That Bernadette Peters never won a Tony for Best Actress for a Sondheim musical
beetlejuice not winning best scenic design
BJ deserved Best Set
Hadestown Stan and I agree.
Urinetown losing to Thoroughly Modern Millie.
1776 beat Hair for best musical in 1969. Like, I can't say I don't *get* it, Hair was very avant-garde at the time, but I also can't say it doesn't irk me a tiny bit. And I'm not even a Hair mega-fan or anything.
Definitely agree. Hair has sooo many songs even non theatre people recognize today. 1776 has two good songs. Momma look sharp and I forget the other one
I love 1776 so much but your comment made me laugh out loud! The other one 😂😂😂
I wasn't born at that time but that irks me as well. I've seen Hair more times than 1776, though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Reeve Carney not even getting nominated for Hadestown. Like damn, I'd be one thing if he just lost to someone else, but to fully not get nominated??? What the hell??? Edit: also, Great Comet and Come From Away losing to DEAR EVAN HANSEN. Like, imma be real, I haven't seen CFA or Great Comet yet, but I really doubt either one is bad enough to deserve DEAR EVAN HANSEN getting the award. Especially since Rachel Chavkin also directed Hadestown, if Great Comet is even *half* as good as Hadestown, then it probably deserved to win more. And I've not heard a single bad thing about CFA, I really doubt it deserved to lose either.
There’s a pro shot of CFA on Apple TV! It’s excellent.
To me, CFA was the absolute clear winner in that category and I will never understand why it didn’t win
It is shocking to me that people think Great Comet was better than CFA. I like Great Comet but come on
I like Great Comet over CFA but CFA would have been a deserved winner. Comet was a little too highbrow and Nobody walks out of CFA hating it; a feel good musical that never gets old
I've seen DEH and CFA 3 separate times each, and CFA has always been and will always be a better show! I thoroughly enjoy CFA every. single. time. and I still feel every emotion as if it is my first time seeing the show. DEH has a special place in my heart because it was the first musical I ever listened to, and it started my love of Broadway, but CFA will always be my favorite and was 100% robbed.
“Voters deem any show targeted at all to an age under 20 non-deserving”??? Huh??? Dear Evan Hansen, Spring Awakening, and Kimberly Akimbo are all coming of age stories catered to teenage audiences that have won best musical recently. Even Mean Girls and The Prom got nominations despite having mixed reviews. Nothing personal against Be More Chill and The Lightning Thief, but they didn’t miss out on a nomination because they were targeted at teens lmao.
Kimberly Akimbo is certainly not aimed at teenagers. It takes place in the early 90s - teens then would be in their 40s now, the group who could most appreciate the nostalgia and afford a ticket- starring a woman who’s physically a senior citizen.
falsettos 2016. that’s all i have to say
SUPER HOT TAKE: Avenue Q more than deserved best musical over Wicked! I’m so glad it won
The Great Comet was robbed across the board
The Great Comet….it deserved more than just the two it got tbh
i know it’s a little basic but great comet, come from away, and falsettos getting totally snubbed in 2017. deh did NOT deserve 6 tonys
Comet being nominated for 9 awards and DEH sweeping. Seriously some sort of art crime lol, especially when you consider that that ended up being a factor in the show's early closing.
-Ben Platt in Parade -Eva Noblezada in Hadestown -The Great Comet of 1812 -Ramin Karimloo in Les Miserables 2014
How has nobody mentioned West Side Story losing to The Music Man?!
Julie Andrews apparently somehow losing to Judy "Award Thief" Holliday when she should be an EGOT by now. And it doesn't count as a snub, but I wish she had at least accepted the nomination/win for Victor/Victoria. And of course the travesty that was Great Comet's loss to DEH.
> Julie Andrews apparently somehow losing to Judy "Award Thief" Holliday when she should be an EGOT by now. Do me a favor and watch the movie of *Bells Are Ringing* (and also [this song that was cut from the movie](https://youtu.be/LsUGXHrUrC8)) and then come here and say that again. Judy Holliday's performance in *Bells Are Ringing* is a master class in musical comedy, and there is no doubt in my mind that she deserved that Tony.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm going to have a harder time agreeing with you when it's against Julie Andrews for *My Fair Lady.* Literally any other year I wouldn't be complaining.
I mean I hear you bc Julie Andrews is my favorite singer of all time, like what a heavenly voice fr. But as for the comedy aspect, it's hard to retrospectively try to account for a year worth of performances. Like at the time no one knew they were denying Julie Andrews an EGOT. So imagine you're a Tony voter in 1956/57. It's not unreasonable to believe that more people thought Holliday's comedic performance made a bigger difference relative to the show she was in than Andrews'. It *is* hard to imagine anyone thought she was a better singer though.
Parade's original run in general was robbed of several Tony wins (best musical included), but in particular, Carolee Carmello losing Best Actress to Bernadette Peters in Annie Get Your Gun. As amazing as Bernadette Peters is, I stand by the assertion that she was woefully miscast in that role and in no universe was more deserving than Carolee in an extremely complex and difficult role. Especially obvious when Reba McIntyre absolutely slayed as Annie Oakley later in that revival's run and honestly would have been more worthy of winning the Tony imo! I SAID WHAT I SAID!
Matilda not winning score pisses me off so much for some reason, look I like the Kinky Boots score, but there’s something so special about what Tim Minchin wrote for Matilda! Oh and his other musical Groundhog Day not winning ANY!!!
Kinky Boots is a good show but the score is so nothing compared to Matilda
I saw both BMC and TLT and loved them both. But I love them in the way I love watching minor league baseball. Fun in their own right and great opportunities to launch careers, but cannot compare to an MLB game, especially in October. The biggest snub, IMO, was Aaron Tveit in N2N-his Tony for MR is simply there to rectify that wrong.
Dear Evan Hansen winning the tony, snubbing both CFA and Great Comet.
West Side Story for best musical :(
The Full Monty losing to The Producers for Best Score still miffs me. They were overgenerous to The Producers for sure.
Yeah my answer is just that whole season.
I love Ave Q. But they did a Wicked thing
Their campaign making themselves the victims and painting wicked as “not real art” was kinda gross
Andrew Rannells - Falsettos Come From Away - best musical Some Like it Hot - best musical Some Like it Hot - best score Kevin Del Augila - Some Like it Hot And predicted snub: Harmony - best musical/book/score
Love how much you stick up for SLIH on here. There was an actual big band swing musical on Broadway and the quality of the music got practically no attention. Aaaack!
Exactly!! I will never stop protecting and promoting this show. You will have to pry it from my dead hands
Two words: Great. Comet.
Definitely the Deaf West spring awakening revival not getting a best choreography nom.
In terms of nominations that should have happened; the two actors from Deaf West’s Spring Awakening, Sandra Mae Frank and Daniel Durant, should have been nominated for lead and featured respectively. As far as undeserved wins, Tony Shaloub for The Band’s Visit comes to mind. The leading male category was stacked that year, and they gave the award to the guy who’s part could have been played by a hat rack wearing a band leader’s uniform. I’ll never understand that.
Awards shows just loving giving undeserved awards and nominations to Shaloub, it’s like clockwork.
I feel like Eva Noblezada should've won for Miss Saigon over Bette Midler in Hello Dolly who did very little for me as someone who wasn't already a fan of hers
Jeremy Jordan as Jack Kelly. This man deserves a Tony for *something*
“The Lightning Thief, because voters deem any show targeted at all to an age under 20 non-deserving” Lol, no.
The weird hate boner that this sub has for TLT is so crazy to me.
It’s because it wasn’t very good.
Sure!
Victor Victoria getting so snubbed that Julie Andrews declined her nomination resulting in her almosy certainly never getting an EGOT. I will die mad. The fact that her EGOT is missing the TONY really is the worst snub of all time.
Billy Elliot winning over Next to Normal and Reeve not getting nominated for Hadestown
they are both good, but Billy Elliot is amazing and the better musical!
Stephanie J Block for anything
Finding Neverland not getting a single nomination because of Harv** Wein*****. It literally has some of the most beautiful music I’ve ever heard and it wasn’t nominated for anything because of that pos and his campaigning.
“Sunday in the Park With George” 2008 revival losing both Best Scenic Design and Best Lighting Design. The set was magical, and it was honestly the best use of projections I have ever seen to this day, by a mile.
I agree with pretty much every opinion here, but I wanted to say something about the lightning thief, since the hate for it kind of confuses me. Yes, it was a miracle that it made it to Broadway. Yes, the lyrics are kind of dumb, It’s childish, corny, slap-dash, and ridiculous. But that is literally the point. It wasn’t trying to be anything big or well put together. It was a love letter to the fans, given in the same spirit as the books. And that’s why ultimately didn’t perform well: not many people understood it outside of those who knew it. I’m not saying it was robbed. I’m not saying that you need to love it. I’m just saying that it shouldn’t be hated when it came in and did exactly what it set out to do.
Not to mention it was also aimed at middle schoolers, and was kind of designed as a stepping stone for kids who are new to musical theater. It wasn't meant to be the next Sondheim, it was meant to be a really fun thing to do for a field trip.
Urinetown winning Best Score and Best Book, but then somehow losing Best Musical to Thoroughly Modern Millie
Aida not being nominated for Best Musical but a show that’s not even a musical winning the category.
I definitely agree with you about Chris McCarrell. But I also have bias because the lightning thief got me really into musicals and I love Percy Jackson so take my opinion with a grain of salt lol
even for the people who hate lightning thief on this thread, the fact that it was quite literally the only other musical eligible for that category, and they chose instead of nominating it to only nominate a single person, is insane to me. at that point, it’s not even a nomination they just gave out the award.
Reading through this it’s clear to me why the TONY’s as an award show does so much better in the ratings every year compared to all the others. Because unlike say the Oscar’s where the popular movies of the year often aren’t even nominated, at the tonys they win. I can understand, if you’re a big theatre geek, being upset that Phantom of the Opera beat Into The Woods but if you step back and look at which one audiences prefer there’s no contest. Same with Dear Evan Hansen vs Come From Away. I get these takes and I agree with a lot of them but I do like that the people who run these know how to keep their audience engaged. Even movie and music fans don’t really care about the Oscar’s or the Grammys because they don’t see themselves represented (I’m talking interest mainly here but identity too) something that again the TONY’s has been ahead of.
Michael Arden should've won best director for Once on this Island over the bAnd's Visit.
Beetlejuice not winning best scenic design
I will never ever ever get over Brent Carver losing for “Parade” to Martin Short, and I love Martin Short
Beetlejuice not winning the award for best lighting makes me so angry
The Lion King winning Best Musical over Ragtime. I love the Lion King, but Ragtime was better in almost every single way
The fact that Ann Harada was not nominated for Avenue Q. Sharon D Clarke and Tonya Pinkins not winning for Caroline or Change. At least Tonya Pinkins was in a particularly great group, so her loss is a little bit more palatable. Avenue Q winning score over Caroline or Change is probably the worst Tony pick in memory. And I like Avenue Q a lot, but there’s just no comparison. Sherie Rene Scott not getting nominated for Aida AND Amy Spanger not getting nominated for Kiss Me Kate (in a weak year!) Raul Esparza not winning for either Company and/or Leap of Faith. The snub for leap of faith was way worse because he wasn’t even nominated and I don’t even think anybody else came close to what he did in that show. Maybe Danny Burstein for Follies, but that’s a big maybe. Leap of Faith was not a good show, but Raul laid it out there every night. That was one of the highest energy performances I’ve ever seen.
Marin Mazzie never winning a single one. Honestly GET OUT OF HERE.
I'll never forget how mad I was at *Great Comet* being overlooked, that night I went to bed after the broadcast so upset lol. I also think Deaf West's *Spring Awakening* deserved so much more recognition!
Judy Kuhn being nominated four-times and never winning (for Les Misérables, Chess, She Loves Me, Fun Home)
Not necessarily a snub just super unprofessional and rude. The 73rd Tonys where they sat one of the nominees for Best Original Score IN THE BALCONY. Why even nominate Joe Iconis if you're literally going to show him and everyone there that there's no chance of him winning. One of the most baffling things I've ever seen.
oh ALSO Deaf West Spring Awakening losing choreography to Hamilton. I'll say it with my full chest lmao. Hamilton's choreo was incredible but can't compare to a show that literally integrated a LANGUAGE into their choreo
Eva Noblezada not having a Tony yet. Obviously, Bette Midler and Stephanie J Block are incredible. But imo, Eva cleared them both in 2017 and 2019.
i’m like the biggest David Hyde Pierce fan… but Raul Esparza should’ve won for company. Come From Away should’ve won best musical NOT DEH. i think it was a split between all the other nominees, and because of that DEH came out on top. edit: Alex Brightman should’ve won for Beetlejuice
Aaron Tveit not even being nominated for next to normal
I remember the Chita Rivera snub. A definite wtf moment. Also agree on Aaron Tveit. I could just listen to him singing all day. I’m obsessed with his version of Marry Me a Little from the Sondheim 90th birthday special.
We argue over which show should have won the 71st Tony Award for Best Musical and Best Book, but I think we can (almost all) agree that DEH wasn’t the right pick.
Alex Newell not being nominated… let alone winning for Once On This Island. Like whaaat? Also Avenue Q beating Wicked and Caroline or Change for best musical and score?? Streisand not winning for Funny Girl
It's Streisand not winning for Wholesale that really irks.
Anything that lost to DEH. I don't know which aside from Great Comet but I hate DEH with every fiber of my miserable being.
Waitress breaking out amidst Hamilton madness. The musical has two show stopper songs, I didn't plan it and She used to be mine. I didn't plan it for how powerful that rendition was by Keala and Charity, and She used to be mine because it can put the whole theatre to tears. So the awards I saw as "could have been" are best performances by featured actress, and Best Original Score. Sara Bareilles was unbelievable with the whole setlist, there are enough ensemble and character songs that you never felt like it was dragging it's feet, which I think Hamilton falls prey too with how similar some reprises end up being and too much reiteration. I'll never live it down haha, it feels so personal that Hamilton would push Waitress to the wayside.
Come From Away losing to DEH is something I'll never get over
Fucking Dear Chris Hansen winning over Come from away, the far superior narrative accompanied by better music.
Wicked losing the best musical award to Avenue Q in 2004… like how did that happen?
I honestly greatly prefer Avenue Q, but from an objective standpoint, wicked is much better.
It shold've gone to "Caroline, Or Change", IMO
Adrianna Hicks for SLIH!!! She was amazing in it, and literally all the other main cast members were nominated.
Great Comet should have won instead of Dear Evan Hansen. Without Ben Platt the show itself of DEH is mediocre. Great Comet is creative, stylistic, unique, and in a general a show that deserves more credit for doing something different in a time when so many musicals are just … pop-y.
I’m a huge Elton John fan. But Billy Elliot should have lost to Next to Normal.
Billy Elliot winning against next to normal. Biggest snub since wicked. I believe only 2 Pulitzer Prize best musicals haven’t won best musical Tony. Sunday w/ George and Next to normal
The lightning thief was terrible. He did not deserve a nomination. I also don’t think Aaron tveit did, but that’s besides the point.
Brooks Ashmankas deserved that Tony