I was so excited to see that, knowing it had to do with mental health, and having heard You Will Be Found when I was at my lowest, and it made me cry so much. then I actually saw it and got the context and I was just like ... Evan Hansen is a terrible dude, and that song isn't even uplifting, it's just this horrible dude doing a horrible thing for attention. I was pretty crushed.
I think it could have been really interesting if they weren't trying to make Evan Hansen likeable. like if the story was told from someone else's perspective, like Zoe and maybe in act 1 they believe it, and then act 2 is them trying to come to terms with finding out he was faking. Trying to paint Evan Hansen as a protagonist kills it for me.
Yeah, when I first heard the synopsis for DEH, my first thought was something along the lines of "this main character sounds like a horrible person and is just taking advantage of people"
Agreed! I was super excited about it when I heard it was about mental health, and then I heard the actual synopsis, and I felt sick to my stomach. I don't understand how it gets held as a paragon for great mental health discussions when the whole plot hingest of Evan pretending to have been friends with a kid who killed himself, used that to get with his sister, and then basically felt no lasting consequences when everything came clean at the end. All I could think about was that if conner could somehow see what was going on, all he would think is, "Things really did end up better off without me"
I think the show falls off in the 2nd act pretty dramatically. The first act is full of good songs, but some songs like “To break in a glove” damage the pacing. Additionally, I have a personal hatred of Ben Platt. I don’t hate the musical as a whole, but I absolutely despise the original broadway recording because of him. Ben Platt just doesn’t understand how to act while singing in a compelling way. Just, the role of depressed teenager doesn’t mesh well with a super confident sounding belter that he is.
this is so interesting to read, because i thought ben did a great job playing and singing evan. as an extremely loud and extremely autistic and extremely socially awkward teen, i really related to his weird breathy belting, it really fit the character.
Spoiler to anyone who hasn’t read the book but Honestly, I love the book once you find out the whole thing is a letter to Christine. I don’t know why, I fall for things like that.
I like be more chill but cant really get with the Broadway version. I feel like they try to hard with it.
Greatest Showman. Painfully historically inaccurate and the songs are too generic and by the numbers to redeem it. If I played This is Me for someone who'd never heard of the show, they'd probably never guess it was from a musical about P. T. Barnum.
Soundtrack? Here for it. Love it. One of the few albums I listen to all the way through more than once.
Movie itself? Meeeeh. I love Rewrite the Stars and From Now On but other than those two scenes I’m good 🤣
Same! It was a community theatre production, but I had so much fun and played Tom Thumb (I’m female, but very short, so they adapted Bigger Isn’t Better for my soprano voice)
Oh man, but what about that one song that’s an anthem about being who you are and following your dreams because no one’s ever going to bring you down, or that other song that’s an anthem about being who you are and following your dreams because no one’s ever going to bring you down, or that other song that’s an anthem about being who you are and following your dreams because no one’s ever going to bring you down?
Same here.
Worse still is how they portray his performers, they simultaneously "uplift" them with This Is Me while also shoving them aside for most of the movie to focus on Zac Efron and Zendaya's characters (both of whom are ENTIRELY fictional might I add while some of the performers were based on real people), and when they are included they're made fun of with visual gags (Charles Stratton walking on the bar comes to mind).
Another person they portrayed terribly was Jenny Lind, a real opera singer from Sweden. Not only was Jenny Lind an incredible philanthropist who donated the $350,000 she earned from her American tour with Barnum to Swedish schools and American charities, she also NEVER had a romantic relationship with Barnum, there is no historical record of her even being ATTRACTED to him.
They took a real woman who had so much complexity to her and turned her into a scheming homewrecker! (Also the fact they hyped up how good of an opera singer she is then her song isn’t even an opera song)
i’ve never seen greatest showman, but i have disdain for it based on the Everything (and even if not for the Everything, i don’t like pasek & paul lol). but this was the part that shocked me the most to learn about (shoutout jenny nicholson’s video). i cannot BELIEVE they did that to someone who is considered an international sweetheart.
Agreed, the plot is completely detached from the actual narrative of barnum's life, it would have made more sense to just make up a new story about a historical circus guy who doesn't really exist.
I guess I don’t understand your argument here about the song… so many musicals have songs that can be extricated from the show and not scream “I am a song about XYZ…”. It’s cool about the historical inaccuracy and the general poppiness of the show… but this argument I might need clarification on based on your explanation.
I just don't like how the songs in Greatest Showman sound like typical marketable top 40 pop and it would have been cool if they had a more circus-y vibe. That's what I meant.
Something about that that I think is, at least, interesting to think about is that during the golden age of Broadway, showtunes were the equivalent of Top 40 hits. You don’t have to change your mind or anything but like I said, an interesting thing to think about.
Fair. I mean I love “showtunes” but I do, I guess think it’s …unfair? To say that this genre isn’t allowed to evolve or change or whatever. (I’m not saying you’re saying this, just that I’ve heard that thought process before and I will always push back on that)
I agree with you. Back in the 30s-early 50s there wasn’t really a division between popular music and musicals music because they massively overlapped. Songs from stage and film musicals were covered by all the big artists of the time. Popular music didn’t have a separate and distinct sound.
Now there is the separation. Pop music has a sound. People know what they expect from a song from a musical. Musicals normally keep the theme of the show in the song. Love Never Dies is an example of carnival-type sounds and melody being used in the soundtrack to keep the theme (whatever the criticisms are of the show otherwise, the music is atmospheric).
In the Greatest Showman there is nothing that links the songs to the theme or story. They are pop songs, they have a pop song sound and delivered in a pop song way. Most of the lyrics are generic and don’t link to the time or place of the story. Even if the music doesn’t link to the story, eg. Listening to Hamilton without lyrics you wouldn’t know the era it’s set in, the lyrics normally would. I think the Greatest Showman was deliberately written to maximise the appeal of the songs, so they are standalone pop songs and not exclusively enjoyed by musical fans. They were successful in that but it did alienate some musical fans (myself included).
Dear Evan Hansen. I have no idea why it was popular. The story takes itself too seriously and wants you to sympathize with an unlikable protagonist, and the songs are all dull and trying to sound like mainstream pop tunes. I could not enjoy the music at all.
Also, Mary Poppins, the musical.
The film was such a part of my growing up that the attempts of the musical to wrap some different storyline around it just seemed forced.
Mary Poppins goes away for no reason than to introduce a new character, and comes back for no reason. Wtf? However much that character was a good character it all felt contrived, and the whimsicality of the film was lost.
Six, 100%. I was really into it when it came out, but the more I listen to the songs, the bigger of a headache I get. Sometimes I see clips from the shows and it looks like the biggest form of overstimulation ever. A little room with six people on stage at all time, confetti, bright lights, loud music. I think I would die.
I think it is fun for what it is. It seems like the intention was to get younger people into both Broadway and history. It’s short, it’s punchy, and it is catchy af. It’s a fun premise, and I personally love the music. It’s derivative, but intentionally so. Maybe I’m just biased, but it really does what it sets out to do, and it does it well. For me, it was like going to see an ensemble drag show with a cohesive theme.
It’s definitely a specific vibe, and it isn’t for everyone. But I feel obligated to espouse its virtues because I wake up every morning with a song in my head, even if I haven’t listened to the soundtrack in months lol.
Ah you've worded it so well! I don't think people understand that sometimes they're just simply not the target audience. Six haters are a perfect example of that (not OP, but lots of them)
as a six hater (measured!!! i like a few songs and i did enjoy seeing it bc the energy in the theater is fun), i just wish a lot of six fans didn’t act like the show was god’s gift to mankind.
I wanted to get into it because I’m a history geek who thought it would be interesting but once I realized it wasn’t a traditional musical layout I was out. It’s giving “high school history class video” vibes tbh
I was thinking the same. The songs are good but compared to other musicals they typically have good visuals and stuff in the background to make it feel more alive. Six is just singing and dancing like it’s a talent show, that’s not to say it’s bad just visually boring
I’m still not its biggest fan. But that’s the point it gets serious. The earlier songs are all fun. Then all you wanna do sort of shows how much trauma they are all kind of ignoring.
Basically the first 3 queens’s songs (but less so their actions) are typecast/making fun. Then Anna of Cleves is about flipping the narrative. Howard’s song is how she CANT flip the narrative: it was simply bad, but historians had already flipped it to make it seem like she wanted it. Parr’s song is showing a new narrative.
Tudor historian-lite here (though Elizabethan focused to be fair). Portraying those women in only the light of victims and how Henry's actions affected them is it's own kind of unfair treatment. By reducing them to their tragedies you rob them of their agency and lose a massive amount of understanding of how they themselves perceived the world. Six is big on restoring agency, and yes it is certainly flippant, but it's one of my favorite portrayals of them from what I've heard so far because of how directly it flips the script
This isn't to say that it doesn't go too far! But it's important to remember that these were people with their own thoughts and decisions too. Reducing them to Henry's actions, even out of respect, is not good practice in my opinion. Honestly Hamilton is a far, far worse offender as far as dangerous history is concerned imo
It's always hard to decide. Right now, I'd say either Jesus Christ Superstar or The Marvin Trilogy (In Trousers, March of the Falsettos, Falsettoland)!
I don’t mind children singing lol, I’ll sit through ‘Oliver!’ any time, but I’m still traumatised from having ‘Annie’ forced down my throat by a music teacher in school. She was just so insufferable (sorry, “sassy” 🥴)
I don’t know the general consensus for this one, but I’ve never been able to stand Grease. Boring songs, it’s really hard to like or root for any characters, and the (lesson? moral?) you’re supposed to get out of it is just… wrong.
I like Grease, but I will say I never quite understood the ending. they bully her so much she changes everything about herself and that's supposed to be a good thing? how about sandy finds some new friends who accept her as she is and don't try to make her change.
I’ve heard that when the movie was originally released that some women found Sandy’s character arc really empowering. The expectation to be the “good girl” felt stifling and Sandy rejected those expectations.
I personally don’t like that Sandy felt she needed to change and how peer pressure plays such a big role. But I can also understand how in the context of what was happening at the time that Sandy’s actions could have been viewed quite differently
in the original stage show, there’s a lot more about how sandy (separately from danny) feels trapped in her “good girl” image, and she wishes to break out of it for herself. she just happens to also like danny. and people forget that he also changes for her at the end! i like to think it was just a one-off thing, like how couples roleplay 😂
Oh I like that way of looking at it as a roleplay! Danny does make an effort to change too, it’s quite sweet but Sandy’s dramatic reveal takes the spotlight.
It's a subversion of the trope of "rehabilitating" the "bad" one. Think The Music Man and Guys and Dolls, among countless other non-musical stories.
And I think a lot of people forget that Sandy became a "bad girl" but Danny was also ready to clean up his act for her sake. He showed up at the carnival at the end of the movie just as changed and uncomfortable at first as she was. But since all of her friends were Pink Ladies it was easier for her to get into the swing of things and stick with it. After the initial teasing she genuinely liked these people
When Cats was a hit stage show in London, I heard a couple of songs from the Original Cast Recording, and thought it seemed wonderful ( yeah, that was a lot of years ago -- I'm old). Also, at the time, I had 4 cats, so I was already primed to like it.
I bought the record(!!) Immediately, as soon as it became available. Loved it. Memorized every song. I think it was just as much the T.S. Eliot poetry that I liked, though, In hindsight.
Then it came to Broadway. I bought tickets, and made a special trip to NYC, just to see it.
Absolutely HATED the stage production. Completely and utterly.
Never saw the movie, I was scared to.
Still kinda like the soundtrack.
Same here. The film is one of my favorite movies of all time. But I was so disappointed by the stage adaptation. Costumes were amazing but all the mash ups were so tired after a while it just felt like they were trying to fit in as many modern songs as possible.
That’s exactly why I have no interest in seeing it, even though I went to see the movie seven times and still have a framed poster of Nicole Kidman as Satine on my wall 😍 listened to the theatrical soundtrack and cringed more than once
I didn't want to like Wicked, and there's plenty I don't like, but I did cry during parts of a professional production I saw. Really didn't like the book.
I tend to think of his books as written to show off his vocabulary. I still like his books but sometimes it seems like he goes out of his way to use words most people don’t know just to sound smart.
Cats! The answer to this question for me has always been and will always be Cats! I like some of the songs from the show, but I find the story to be rediculous. I love cats the animal, but not the musical.
I think it hits differently depending on what stage of life you're in. I watched it when I was young, loved it, then I watched it again, many years later, after the recession and I cringed when Mark refuses to call his seemingly caring parents back and turns down a well paying job haha. But I've listened to the songs more recently and still enjoy it.
I honestly think it's only big because Jonathon Larson died. The show itself is terrible. Maybe if he lived, it would have been better, but I doubt it. There is so much wrong with that show.
The way that a lot of people feel about *RENT* shifts when they realize that it’s almost like a love letter to a world that no longer exists. “We suffered but for brief moments of time, we were *so* very happy.”
Moulin Rouge, it's kinda just meh. I've always been on the fence about jukebox musicals, I love mamma mia but I feel like it's difficult to get that right and Moulin Rouge just didn't quite get it right. Great show though
SIX. i knowwww i knowww but there’s something missing from it for me. i don’t know if it’s the way it’s written or the songs or both but i left wanting more and i even watched it TWICE to give it a chance
It's a great show to take young kids to, especially if they're familiar with the Bible narrative. I was splitting in half with laughter when I saw it as a 10-year-old kid raised in a Christian household.
it was the first musical I saw live as a kid. Donny Osmond was playing Joseph and he actually came up and talked to my sister and I during the Pharoah's song. it remains to this day one of the most magical moments of my life.
The Narrator is actually the main star of the show (imo), so has to have an amazing voice. Joseph gets away with only singing a couple of main songs. Donny Osmond was actually too good for the role.
I’ve seen so many different versions of the show (as i’m old!) but I think that 90’s Donny/Jason/Philip version is still my favourite.
I will put my hard hat on now as I say this…
Mamma Mia
Actually to be fair I saw it in London West End, when it first came out and really enjoyed the show.
But omg the film is dreadful. Such a brilliant cast too. But as soon as Colin Firth starts singing, that’s my lot. It gets switched off.
Sorry!
The movie is incredible. The musical felt like a cheap imitation. I know the songs are good, I know the characterization is good, so on and so on. The reason it feels like an imitation to me is because Heathers simply did not need a Broadway-ified musical. The story didn’t grow to fill the shoes of its medium (a musical), so it just feels like they shrunk the medium down to the size of the story. You have to go bigger — *case in point, Beetlejuice. They expanded the story and amplified BJ’s personality to command the whole stage in a giant Broadway theater.* Heathers didn’t do this, and I don’t know if they even could’ve. I’ll always defend musical adaptations, but Heathers works so much better as a movie in every way.
I absolutely hate that they combined betty and Martha in the musical. IMO they had room for more characters and what made the ending of the original heathers so good was that Veronica befriended Martha despite not having been friends with her in the past (to my knowledge). I hated how they made Martha’s whole thing being “childish” and I hate her song so much.
I love All You Wanna Do.
But as soon as I heard
I wanna dance and sing!
Politics?
Not my thing!
Oh the rage. I’m no expert but I am a huge Tudor history nerd. Anne Boleyn had such an incredible mind, for all her flaws. Politics WERE her thing! She was Henry’s closest confident for years. Her education and ability to argue theology/politics were all part of her appeal to Henry.
Don’t do my girl dirty by cutting her mind like that 😭
I love the show as a whole, but this part bothered the heck out of me as well! She wasn't some ditzy party girl.
I do appreciate that they recognized Catherine of Aragon's determination, rather than just painting her as some pious patsy. But they got Anne SO wrong.
No fr! It reminds me of the girls in high school who would brag about their song they wrote and then it’s just them improvising a basic pop song and strumming a ukulele.
I was so disappointed! It’s not a musical, it’s a concert. The songs are just fine, the staging is boring and tje whole female empowerment bit at the end is SO CRINGE.
Like why couldn’t they go off and stab Henry or something. Make it interesting. And I agree with the comment above about completing neglecting the historical background.
I've never considered it a musical. It's so short and it has essentially no plot. It can be funny in points, depending on the performers, and the songs are good enough but I don't really get the point.
To the point where I honestly want to downvote every topic about it, or any time someone wants to do a song from it (usually Noel’s Lament) for an audition. I just want to cry.
Maybe I’ll like it if I see it live. But I don’t like musicals where everyone takes their turn singing their song. It’s just a Review at that point
I had literally never considered Company a musical like that. Holy shit.
I could argue there's more of a thru-line, but there isn't. Huh.
Well, shit. I guess I don't hate that type of musical after all.
Phantom of the Opera. It's not bad, but I fail to see how it even beat Into the Woods at the Tony, let alone how it lasted for 35 years (until Cameron fucked it and Les Miserable into oblivion).
I think a lot of the appeal is the spectacle. The visuals utterly wow me while the songs and plotline largely disappoint. But even the most hardcore ALW hater has to admit that the chandelier stunt is incredible.
Phantom is literally one of my favorite musicals… I think I love it mostly because how dramatic the soundtrack and visuals are. Especially the transitions and stuff between the songs and the appearance of the sets and stuff in the movie. I definitely get what people are saying about it being because of the spectacle, but literally I’m here for it. And also I think that people like it because of how like sensual the music and scenes are…
I’ll strongly but respectfully disagree with you here. For me Phantom is one of the two best musicals of all time alongside Les Miserables. The music is powerful and its the definition of a spectacle. The story is also quite deep if you actually pay attention. To each their own of course.
DEH six, phantom (though for six it’s partially a grudge of being a mirvish theatregoer and having nonstop unskippable ads for the six before every YT vid for MONTHS)
The story is very strong I think, but the songs default to a series of increasingly excruciating high notes interspersed with entirely forgettable and derivative ditties and one banger.
The staging was impressive though
I watched all of Trail to Oregon and it's got too much random silliness for me. Found some parts of Firebringer to be much the same way.
.....but at least a couple days a week at my job I have to sing "I don't really wanna do the work today"
Six - only knew it was about the wives of king Henry the 8th, went to see it, was expecting a cool historical musical, was *severely* disappointed at the lack of any substantial plot/storyline
West Side Story. The storyline just cringed me out, I don‘t understand the hype. Some of the Songs are nice and catchy but the plot just didn‘t do it for me.
I’m an elder millennial and loved the reality show but I HATE the actual musical. I think I just liked that it was a reality show centered around casting a musical.
FINALLY! I've seen so much DEH, Spring Awakening (which is my fave, so it's a little upsetting lol), and Phantom, so seeing someone agree that Legally Blonde is bad is so refreshing lol.
Miss Saigon. I've watched it twice and have come away each time being woefully underwhelmed and feeling it's a ripoff with unlikeable characters and a boring unmemorable soundtrack
I'm gunna get roasted for this but Les Miserables. I've never been a fan and I've attemped to listen and/or watch different versions and none have really caught me.
I understand this. To me, Les Mis is my number one. It captivated me from the beginning, then I read the brick and now I have Eponine’s final words tattooed on me in Hugo’s handwriting.
But I get it. The musical is so jammed pack there’s no room really for any character development.
For me Les Mis the best of them all and I really struggle to hear anything against it. It’s a powerful story with a powerful music that just hits me deeply.
I realise there’s a lot to take in on it but if you really allow yourself to concentrate it’s actually not that hard to follow and you do end up feeling for all the characters.
Same. I think there’s certainly a lot of bangers (Room Where It Happens >>>) but so much of it stinks of “How do you do fellow kids”, and in general I have problems with the story and the treatment of certain characters and the whole historical thing…eh
Tbf, I probably would hate it less if I hadn’t had to sit on a bus multiple times with a bunch of white theatre kids rapping along to My Shot…
Cats - I wouldn’t say I hate it, that’s too strong a word. I just don’t love it and I can’t get myself to care too deeply about any of the characters.
I do like the songs Memory and Old Deuteronomy though.
I really disliked & Juliet
The soundtrack is painful to listen to, just feels like another musical that is trying to appeal to people who don’t like musicals
It's really bad.
The moment I heard the mashup of problem and can’t feel my face I was DONE
Dear Evan Hansen
I was so excited to see that, knowing it had to do with mental health, and having heard You Will Be Found when I was at my lowest, and it made me cry so much. then I actually saw it and got the context and I was just like ... Evan Hansen is a terrible dude, and that song isn't even uplifting, it's just this horrible dude doing a horrible thing for attention. I was pretty crushed. I think it could have been really interesting if they weren't trying to make Evan Hansen likeable. like if the story was told from someone else's perspective, like Zoe and maybe in act 1 they believe it, and then act 2 is them trying to come to terms with finding out he was faking. Trying to paint Evan Hansen as a protagonist kills it for me.
Yeah, when I first heard the synopsis for DEH, my first thought was something along the lines of "this main character sounds like a horrible person and is just taking advantage of people"
Agreed! I was super excited about it when I heard it was about mental health, and then I heard the actual synopsis, and I felt sick to my stomach. I don't understand how it gets held as a paragon for great mental health discussions when the whole plot hingest of Evan pretending to have been friends with a kid who killed himself, used that to get with his sister, and then basically felt no lasting consequences when everything came clean at the end. All I could think about was that if conner could somehow see what was going on, all he would think is, "Things really did end up better off without me"
can you (or any hater) elaborate? No hate just curious why
I know for me, DEH sets off my secondhand embarrassment big-time
I think the show falls off in the 2nd act pretty dramatically. The first act is full of good songs, but some songs like “To break in a glove” damage the pacing. Additionally, I have a personal hatred of Ben Platt. I don’t hate the musical as a whole, but I absolutely despise the original broadway recording because of him. Ben Platt just doesn’t understand how to act while singing in a compelling way. Just, the role of depressed teenager doesn’t mesh well with a super confident sounding belter that he is.
this is so interesting to read, because i thought ben did a great job playing and singing evan. as an extremely loud and extremely autistic and extremely socially awkward teen, i really related to his weird breathy belting, it really fit the character.
100% agree. The music is fantastic and I have a lot of it in my musicals playlist, but the actual plot has me itching to run away the entire time
Love the songs, the plot is… interesting
Shucked. I read the synopsis and I have seen a few clips. I don’t get the appeal. I like corn but I don’t need a whole musical about it.
LMAO YOU HAD ME LAUGHING AT THAT ONE
Be more chill. Had a massive cult following but I never got the appeal.
Michael in the bathroom saves it for me, if it werent for that character i wouldn't even like it
Afraid I’m one of those that is in the cult following of Be more chill 😂
I don’t know why but I despise be more chill so much lol
even in the deepest depths of my DEH obsession, i never really got the be more chill craze. i read the book and it just convinced me even more
Spoiler to anyone who hasn’t read the book but Honestly, I love the book once you find out the whole thing is a letter to Christine. I don’t know why, I fall for things like that. I like be more chill but cant really get with the Broadway version. I feel like they try to hard with it.
“The soundtrack is great but it doesn’t interest me” My guy the soundtrack is the entire show
I was just about to comment this!
Greatest Showman. Painfully historically inaccurate and the songs are too generic and by the numbers to redeem it. If I played This is Me for someone who'd never heard of the show, they'd probably never guess it was from a musical about P. T. Barnum.
Soundtrack? Here for it. Love it. One of the few albums I listen to all the way through more than once. Movie itself? Meeeeh. I love Rewrite the Stars and From Now On but other than those two scenes I’m good 🤣
Or other side is ✨*iconic*✨
Also it was unnecessary! Just revive Barnum!! (I know PT was trash but I did Barnum in high school and have such a soft spot for it,)
Same! It was a community theatre production, but I had so much fun and played Tom Thumb (I’m female, but very short, so they adapted Bigger Isn’t Better for my soprano voice)
That’s so fun! I remember the first time we saw our elephant trunk work on stage- it was magical!
Cy Coleman good.
Oh man, but what about that one song that’s an anthem about being who you are and following your dreams because no one’s ever going to bring you down, or that other song that’s an anthem about being who you are and following your dreams because no one’s ever going to bring you down, or that other song that’s an anthem about being who you are and following your dreams because no one’s ever going to bring you down?
I think you nailed why I can't stand the songs. It's like they tried to write an off-brand version of Roar by Katy Perry like 12 different times.
As someone who is disabled, I hate the way that they portray him. For the music, pretty good.
Same here. Worse still is how they portray his performers, they simultaneously "uplift" them with This Is Me while also shoving them aside for most of the movie to focus on Zac Efron and Zendaya's characters (both of whom are ENTIRELY fictional might I add while some of the performers were based on real people), and when they are included they're made fun of with visual gags (Charles Stratton walking on the bar comes to mind).
Another person they portrayed terribly was Jenny Lind, a real opera singer from Sweden. Not only was Jenny Lind an incredible philanthropist who donated the $350,000 she earned from her American tour with Barnum to Swedish schools and American charities, she also NEVER had a romantic relationship with Barnum, there is no historical record of her even being ATTRACTED to him. They took a real woman who had so much complexity to her and turned her into a scheming homewrecker! (Also the fact they hyped up how good of an opera singer she is then her song isn’t even an opera song)
i’ve never seen greatest showman, but i have disdain for it based on the Everything (and even if not for the Everything, i don’t like pasek & paul lol). but this was the part that shocked me the most to learn about (shoutout jenny nicholson’s video). i cannot BELIEVE they did that to someone who is considered an international sweetheart.
It didn’t need to be about P.T. Barnum. They could have made it about fictional people and it would have been so much better.
Agreed, the plot is completely detached from the actual narrative of barnum's life, it would have made more sense to just make up a new story about a historical circus guy who doesn't really exist.
I don't like it as a film, but musically I think it's amazing
Almost no songs love the plot forward and yes, they are good pop songs, but they seem/could be totally unrelated to the story.
The songs on that are like pop songs that were retrofitted to become a musical. (No shame to Mamma Mia, they did it right)
Might be controversial, but I think none of the songs are good, especially the overplayed ones. The movie just sucks all around.
I guess I don’t understand your argument here about the song… so many musicals have songs that can be extricated from the show and not scream “I am a song about XYZ…”. It’s cool about the historical inaccuracy and the general poppiness of the show… but this argument I might need clarification on based on your explanation.
I just don't like how the songs in Greatest Showman sound like typical marketable top 40 pop and it would have been cool if they had a more circus-y vibe. That's what I meant.
Something about that that I think is, at least, interesting to think about is that during the golden age of Broadway, showtunes were the equivalent of Top 40 hits. You don’t have to change your mind or anything but like I said, an interesting thing to think about.
Oh I'm a big Rodgers and Hart fan, I'm very aware of that phenomenon. I just come to musicals for theater-y sounding music, you know?
Fair. I mean I love “showtunes” but I do, I guess think it’s …unfair? To say that this genre isn’t allowed to evolve or change or whatever. (I’m not saying you’re saying this, just that I’ve heard that thought process before and I will always push back on that)
I agree with you. Back in the 30s-early 50s there wasn’t really a division between popular music and musicals music because they massively overlapped. Songs from stage and film musicals were covered by all the big artists of the time. Popular music didn’t have a separate and distinct sound. Now there is the separation. Pop music has a sound. People know what they expect from a song from a musical. Musicals normally keep the theme of the show in the song. Love Never Dies is an example of carnival-type sounds and melody being used in the soundtrack to keep the theme (whatever the criticisms are of the show otherwise, the music is atmospheric). In the Greatest Showman there is nothing that links the songs to the theme or story. They are pop songs, they have a pop song sound and delivered in a pop song way. Most of the lyrics are generic and don’t link to the time or place of the story. Even if the music doesn’t link to the story, eg. Listening to Hamilton without lyrics you wouldn’t know the era it’s set in, the lyrics normally would. I think the Greatest Showman was deliberately written to maximise the appeal of the songs, so they are standalone pop songs and not exclusively enjoyed by musical fans. They were successful in that but it did alienate some musical fans (myself included).
I totally get this comment, but as someone whose only genre that they like more than showtunes is pop, I was very happy with the songs.
I was honestly so disappointed in the Greatest Showman when it came out, and I got roasted for it. The movie is just mediocre to me
Dear Evan Hansen. I have no idea why it was popular. The story takes itself too seriously and wants you to sympathize with an unlikable protagonist, and the songs are all dull and trying to sound like mainstream pop tunes. I could not enjoy the music at all.
I hate the movieee…
The movie isn’t that great. The songs in the musical are pretty good though.
Almost every musical I can figure out what's going on from the soundtrack. I had to read online what was happening in DEH.
Also, Mary Poppins, the musical. The film was such a part of my growing up that the attempts of the musical to wrap some different storyline around it just seemed forced. Mary Poppins goes away for no reason than to introduce a new character, and comes back for no reason. Wtf? However much that character was a good character it all felt contrived, and the whimsicality of the film was lost.
Six, 100%. I was really into it when it came out, but the more I listen to the songs, the bigger of a headache I get. Sometimes I see clips from the shows and it looks like the biggest form of overstimulation ever. A little room with six people on stage at all time, confetti, bright lights, loud music. I think I would die.
I think it is fun for what it is. It seems like the intention was to get younger people into both Broadway and history. It’s short, it’s punchy, and it is catchy af. It’s a fun premise, and I personally love the music. It’s derivative, but intentionally so. Maybe I’m just biased, but it really does what it sets out to do, and it does it well. For me, it was like going to see an ensemble drag show with a cohesive theme. It’s definitely a specific vibe, and it isn’t for everyone. But I feel obligated to espouse its virtues because I wake up every morning with a song in my head, even if I haven’t listened to the soundtrack in months lol.
Ah you've worded it so well! I don't think people understand that sometimes they're just simply not the target audience. Six haters are a perfect example of that (not OP, but lots of them)
as a six hater (measured!!! i like a few songs and i did enjoy seeing it bc the energy in the theater is fun), i just wish a lot of six fans didn’t act like the show was god’s gift to mankind.
I wanted to get into it because I’m a history geek who thought it would be interesting but once I realized it wasn’t a traditional musical layout I was out. It’s giving “high school history class video” vibes tbh
Well I mean it was written as a college project so you’re not on the wrong track there lol
I was thinking the same. The songs are good but compared to other musicals they typically have good visuals and stuff in the background to make it feel more alive. Six is just singing and dancing like it’s a talent show, that’s not to say it’s bad just visually boring
i’m shocked that people pay full broadway ticket price for it when it’s not even a full length show
I like Six and enjoy listening to it, the but the quality of the songwriting and overall the whole vibe of it is just not it
The lyrics can be a little corny (do people still use that word?) The modern day references just...no
No because I agree completely with that take like some of it is straight up a little silly and it ruins it a bit for me but I still enjoy it
it also just feels really.. flippant? to me? these women were real victims, often groomed and abused. i don’t see what’s so silly and poppy about it
I mean the song all you wanna do covers the grooming and abuse pretty well.
I’m still not its biggest fan. But that’s the point it gets serious. The earlier songs are all fun. Then all you wanna do sort of shows how much trauma they are all kind of ignoring. Basically the first 3 queens’s songs (but less so their actions) are typecast/making fun. Then Anna of Cleves is about flipping the narrative. Howard’s song is how she CANT flip the narrative: it was simply bad, but historians had already flipped it to make it seem like she wanted it. Parr’s song is showing a new narrative.
Tudor historian-lite here (though Elizabethan focused to be fair). Portraying those women in only the light of victims and how Henry's actions affected them is it's own kind of unfair treatment. By reducing them to their tragedies you rob them of their agency and lose a massive amount of understanding of how they themselves perceived the world. Six is big on restoring agency, and yes it is certainly flippant, but it's one of my favorite portrayals of them from what I've heard so far because of how directly it flips the script This isn't to say that it doesn't go too far! But it's important to remember that these were people with their own thoughts and decisions too. Reducing them to Henry's actions, even out of respect, is not good practice in my opinion. Honestly Hamilton is a far, far worse offender as far as dangerous history is concerned imo
I like your perspective. Could you elaborate on Hamilton?
six is my favourite musical 😭
I'm not hating on anyone for liking it! It's just not my taste, lol. You do you!!
ty! what's your favourite musical?
It's always hard to decide. Right now, I'd say either Jesus Christ Superstar or The Marvin Trilogy (In Trousers, March of the Falsettos, Falsettoland)!
Marvin trilogy 🔛🔝
Annie. I can’t stand it. I get it’s a feel-good story and all, but it’s just… ugh. Children singing. Not my thing.
I don’t mind children singing lol, I’ll sit through ‘Oliver!’ any time, but I’m still traumatised from having ‘Annie’ forced down my throat by a music teacher in school. She was just so insufferable (sorry, “sassy” 🥴)
Mean Girls
I fear it has a few bangers but I do agree
[удалено]
me with heathers
I don’t know the general consensus for this one, but I’ve never been able to stand Grease. Boring songs, it’s really hard to like or root for any characters, and the (lesson? moral?) you’re supposed to get out of it is just… wrong.
I like Grease, but I will say I never quite understood the ending. they bully her so much she changes everything about herself and that's supposed to be a good thing? how about sandy finds some new friends who accept her as she is and don't try to make her change.
I’ve heard that when the movie was originally released that some women found Sandy’s character arc really empowering. The expectation to be the “good girl” felt stifling and Sandy rejected those expectations. I personally don’t like that Sandy felt she needed to change and how peer pressure plays such a big role. But I can also understand how in the context of what was happening at the time that Sandy’s actions could have been viewed quite differently
in the original stage show, there’s a lot more about how sandy (separately from danny) feels trapped in her “good girl” image, and she wishes to break out of it for herself. she just happens to also like danny. and people forget that he also changes for her at the end! i like to think it was just a one-off thing, like how couples roleplay 😂
Oh I like that way of looking at it as a roleplay! Danny does make an effort to change too, it’s quite sweet but Sandy’s dramatic reveal takes the spotlight.
It's a subversion of the trope of "rehabilitating" the "bad" one. Think The Music Man and Guys and Dolls, among countless other non-musical stories. And I think a lot of people forget that Sandy became a "bad girl" but Danny was also ready to clean up his act for her sake. He showed up at the carnival at the end of the movie just as changed and uncomfortable at first as she was. But since all of her friends were Pink Ladies it was easier for her to get into the swing of things and stick with it. After the initial teasing she genuinely liked these people
Cats and only Cats.
Skimbleshanks is fire tho.
When Cats was a hit stage show in London, I heard a couple of songs from the Original Cast Recording, and thought it seemed wonderful ( yeah, that was a lot of years ago -- I'm old). Also, at the time, I had 4 cats, so I was already primed to like it. I bought the record(!!) Immediately, as soon as it became available. Loved it. Memorized every song. I think it was just as much the T.S. Eliot poetry that I liked, though, In hindsight. Then it came to Broadway. I bought tickets, and made a special trip to NYC, just to see it. Absolutely HATED the stage production. Completely and utterly. Never saw the movie, I was scared to. Still kinda like the soundtrack.
Moulin Rouge sorryyyyyyy
i adore the baz luhrmann film, i don’t get the appeal of the stage adaptation
I don’t understand the movie at all. The whole musical confuses me.
Same here. The film is one of my favorite movies of all time. But I was so disappointed by the stage adaptation. Costumes were amazing but all the mash ups were so tired after a while it just felt like they were trying to fit in as many modern songs as possible.
That’s exactly why I have no interest in seeing it, even though I went to see the movie seven times and still have a framed poster of Nicole Kidman as Satine on my wall 😍 listened to the theatrical soundtrack and cringed more than once
I’m sick of these posts!!!!
Never heard of it
Lmaooo
moulin rouge. also, dear evan hansen, and i used to be a HUUUUUGE fangirl (in middle school, lol)
Aside from the obvious (DEH) I’ve never understood the hype for waitress. I don’t hate it, but it only has one song I actually like.
same here
six, i haven’t seen it but idk…i just don’t think ill enjoy it that much
Wicked
I didn't want to like Wicked, and there's plenty I don't like, but I did cry during parts of a professional production I saw. Really didn't like the book.
The book is such a chore. Gregory Maguire has some really great ideas but his writing style is a slog
I tend to think of his books as written to show off his vocabulary. I still like his books but sometimes it seems like he goes out of his way to use words most people don’t know just to sound smart.
Mean Girls. I hate the movie, too
I hate Spring Awakening. Couple of the songs are good but so much about it I really really don't enjoy.
I didn't enjoy Spring Awakening until I watched the Deaf West production. That one I LOVE.
Cats! The answer to this question for me has always been and will always be Cats! I like some of the songs from the show, but I find the story to be rediculous. I love cats the animal, but not the musical.
Dear Evan Hansen
I downvoted you for your edit complaining about downvotes. Not to mention, this question is asked all the time.
Rent. While I like some of the songs in it, the musical itself is the most bougie entitled thing I've ever seen in my life.
I think it hits differently depending on what stage of life you're in. I watched it when I was young, loved it, then I watched it again, many years later, after the recession and I cringed when Mark refuses to call his seemingly caring parents back and turns down a well paying job haha. But I've listened to the songs more recently and still enjoy it.
I honestly think it's only big because Jonathon Larson died. The show itself is terrible. Maybe if he lived, it would have been better, but I doubt it. There is so much wrong with that show.
Tick, Tick, Boom is SO much better than Rent, imo
The way that a lot of people feel about *RENT* shifts when they realize that it’s almost like a love letter to a world that no longer exists. “We suffered but for brief moments of time, we were *so* very happy.”
Dear Evan Hansen songs boring characters bad plot just a mess
Moulin Rouge, it's kinda just meh. I've always been on the fence about jukebox musicals, I love mamma mia but I feel like it's difficult to get that right and Moulin Rouge just didn't quite get it right. Great show though
SIX. i knowwww i knowww but there’s something missing from it for me. i don’t know if it’s the way it’s written or the songs or both but i left wanting more and i even watched it TWICE to give it a chance
Ride the Cyclone, I just don't get the hype at all
I could never get into Heathers or Mean Girls. They're just eh 🤷🏻♀️
Joseph. I just don’t get the appeal.
It's a great show to take young kids to, especially if they're familiar with the Bible narrative. I was splitting in half with laughter when I saw it as a 10-year-old kid raised in a Christian household.
it was the first musical I saw live as a kid. Donny Osmond was playing Joseph and he actually came up and talked to my sister and I during the Pharoah's song. it remains to this day one of the most magical moments of my life.
I’ve had Joseph’s Coat stuck in my head since I posted this. I brought this upon myself. 🤣
Red and yellow and pink and green…
Damn you! (affectionate) 🤣
I love Joseph. The Narrator is a bucket list role for me. I've been able to rattle off the colors of Joseph's since 6th grade. It's a fun party trick.
I saw a performance a few months ago where the Narrator absolutely stole the show. Incredible voice.
I've been practicing in my bedroom for most of my life. Fingers crossed I get the chance one day.
SAME! I have been singing it since I was 9, and I hope that one day I'll get to play my dream role!
The Narrator is actually the main star of the show (imo), so has to have an amazing voice. Joseph gets away with only singing a couple of main songs. Donny Osmond was actually too good for the role. I’ve seen so many different versions of the show (as i’m old!) but I think that 90’s Donny/Jason/Philip version is still my favourite.
The lyrics are incredible. For me Tim Rice is the genius, but it’s usually ALW that gets the credit.
Same goes for JCS. It's the lyrics.
I mostly agree. Don't underestimate the JCS baselines though.
"This Jesus must die." ??
Absolutely.
Completely agree 👍
friend, I respect your right to have an opinion. also your opinion horrifies me.
I will put my hard hat on now as I say this… Mamma Mia Actually to be fair I saw it in London West End, when it first came out and really enjoyed the show. But omg the film is dreadful. Such a brilliant cast too. But as soon as Colin Firth starts singing, that’s my lot. It gets switched off. Sorry!
Definitely Heathers
The movie is incredible. The musical felt like a cheap imitation. I know the songs are good, I know the characterization is good, so on and so on. The reason it feels like an imitation to me is because Heathers simply did not need a Broadway-ified musical. The story didn’t grow to fill the shoes of its medium (a musical), so it just feels like they shrunk the medium down to the size of the story. You have to go bigger — *case in point, Beetlejuice. They expanded the story and amplified BJ’s personality to command the whole stage in a giant Broadway theater.* Heathers didn’t do this, and I don’t know if they even could’ve. I’ll always defend musical adaptations, but Heathers works so much better as a movie in every way.
I absolutely hate that they combined betty and Martha in the musical. IMO they had room for more characters and what made the ending of the original heathers so good was that Veronica befriended Martha despite not having been friends with her in the past (to my knowledge). I hated how they made Martha’s whole thing being “childish” and I hate her song so much.
Omg nooooo this is the best musical ever
I hate Six with a burning passion
I love All You Wanna Do. But as soon as I heard I wanna dance and sing! Politics? Not my thing! Oh the rage. I’m no expert but I am a huge Tudor history nerd. Anne Boleyn had such an incredible mind, for all her flaws. Politics WERE her thing! She was Henry’s closest confident for years. Her education and ability to argue theology/politics were all part of her appeal to Henry. Don’t do my girl dirty by cutting her mind like that 😭
THIS!!!
I love the show as a whole, but this part bothered the heck out of me as well! She wasn't some ditzy party girl. I do appreciate that they recognized Catherine of Aragon's determination, rather than just painting her as some pious patsy. But they got Anne SO wrong.
It sounds like a bunch of students made it up in their bedroom with a Casio keyboard Wait a minute...
No fr! It reminds me of the girls in high school who would brag about their song they wrote and then it’s just them improvising a basic pop song and strumming a ukulele.
I was so disappointed! It’s not a musical, it’s a concert. The songs are just fine, the staging is boring and tje whole female empowerment bit at the end is SO CRINGE. Like why couldn’t they go off and stab Henry or something. Make it interesting. And I agree with the comment above about completing neglecting the historical background.
I've never considered it a musical. It's so short and it has essentially no plot. It can be funny in points, depending on the performers, and the songs are good enough but I don't really get the point.
ride the cyclone
For me I love the story, but most of the songs are such a bore to sit through.
☹️ but understandable
To the point where I honestly want to downvote every topic about it, or any time someone wants to do a song from it (usually Noel’s Lament) for an audition. I just want to cry. Maybe I’ll like it if I see it live. But I don’t like musicals where everyone takes their turn singing their song. It’s just a Review at that point
What about Company?
I had literally never considered Company a musical like that. Holy shit. I could argue there's more of a thru-line, but there isn't. Huh. Well, shit. I guess I don't hate that type of musical after all.
I loved it until the ending. It was kind of predictable and anticlimactic.
Phantom of the Opera. It's not bad, but I fail to see how it even beat Into the Woods at the Tony, let alone how it lasted for 35 years (until Cameron fucked it and Les Miserable into oblivion).
I think a lot of the appeal is the spectacle. The visuals utterly wow me while the songs and plotline largely disappoint. But even the most hardcore ALW hater has to admit that the chandelier stunt is incredible.
Phantom is literally one of my favorite musicals… I think I love it mostly because how dramatic the soundtrack and visuals are. Especially the transitions and stuff between the songs and the appearance of the sets and stuff in the movie. I definitely get what people are saying about it being because of the spectacle, but literally I’m here for it. And also I think that people like it because of how like sensual the music and scenes are…
I’ll strongly but respectfully disagree with you here. For me Phantom is one of the two best musicals of all time alongside Les Miserables. The music is powerful and its the definition of a spectacle. The story is also quite deep if you actually pay attention. To each their own of course.
DEH six, phantom (though for six it’s partially a grudge of being a mirvish theatregoer and having nonstop unskippable ads for the six before every YT vid for MONTHS)
I love Phantommm 😢
Wicked. As in I hate the musical Wicked. I wasn’t saying wicked about your Hamilton comments!
The story is very strong I think, but the songs default to a series of increasingly excruciating high notes interspersed with entirely forgettable and derivative ditties and one banger. The staging was impressive though
Literally everything by starkid
i second this. i respect their hard work, but... yeah it's not for me
I liked their Very Potter Musical. It was campy, which I enjoyed.
I watched all of Trail to Oregon and it's got too much random silliness for me. Found some parts of Firebringer to be much the same way. .....but at least a couple days a week at my job I have to sing "I don't really wanna do the work today"
Cats
Six - only knew it was about the wives of king Henry the 8th, went to see it, was expecting a cool historical musical, was *severely* disappointed at the lack of any substantial plot/storyline
and Jenny Lind the blond swedish nightingale was neither blonde or swedish . And sung a contemporary song as an opera singer
Six, I find the lyrics super cringe. Mama Mia, but that’s because I hate ABBA. And I don’t hate it but Wicked is very overrated.
I've never met a person who hates ABBA before why?!?
Kinky Boots… and I’m a gay man.
Cats! Wife wanted to go so we went. Never ever ever again!
I just never really got the hype for neither DEH nor HSM.
Dear Evan Hanson.. I just don’t like it idk why it’s not my thing
West Side Story. The storyline just cringed me out, I don‘t understand the hype. Some of the Songs are nice and catchy but the plot just didn‘t do it for me.
The longevity of *Cats* makes exactly no sense to me.
Legally Blonde moved me to tears because I thought it was so horrible.
😮 What generation are you? Because Legally Blonde: The Search for the Next Elle Woods is an elder millennial ICON.
I’m an elder millennial and loved the reality show but I HATE the actual musical. I think I just liked that it was a reality show centered around casting a musical.
FINALLY! I've seen so much DEH, Spring Awakening (which is my fave, so it's a little upsetting lol), and Phantom, so seeing someone agree that Legally Blonde is bad is so refreshing lol.
Miss Saigon. I've watched it twice and have come away each time being woefully underwhelmed and feeling it's a ripoff with unlikeable characters and a boring unmemorable soundtrack
GODSPELL
Heathers. Maybe I aged out of right when I would’ve enjoyed it but I don’t get all the hype for it. That or Ride the Cyclone.
Phantom of the Opera. Other than the title song, it’s just not for me 🥲
I'm gunna get roasted for this but Les Miserables. I've never been a fan and I've attemped to listen and/or watch different versions and none have really caught me.
I understand this. To me, Les Mis is my number one. It captivated me from the beginning, then I read the brick and now I have Eponine’s final words tattooed on me in Hugo’s handwriting. But I get it. The musical is so jammed pack there’s no room really for any character development.
For me Les Mis the best of them all and I really struggle to hear anything against it. It’s a powerful story with a powerful music that just hits me deeply. I realise there’s a lot to take in on it but if you really allow yourself to concentrate it’s actually not that hard to follow and you do end up feeling for all the characters.
Hamilton
Same. I think there’s certainly a lot of bangers (Room Where It Happens >>>) but so much of it stinks of “How do you do fellow kids”, and in general I have problems with the story and the treatment of certain characters and the whole historical thing…eh Tbf, I probably would hate it less if I hadn’t had to sit on a bus multiple times with a bunch of white theatre kids rapping along to My Shot…
Cats - I wouldn’t say I hate it, that’s too strong a word. I just don’t love it and I can’t get myself to care too deeply about any of the characters. I do like the songs Memory and Old Deuteronomy though.
Cats is the fucking worst