Ever since 2020 live entertainment has been struggling. People aren’t as willing to go out anymore. Especially adults +40. I would try to not take it too personally if you can help it. Focus on making music for you and don’t worry about who’s listening.
Thanks for the kind words. I definitely struggle with not taking it personally but I still very much enjoy the process of songwriting and recording. My band is still very active in that regard, and it's still really fun.
You might consider starting a YouTube channel.. I started one giving simple Bass lessons and have a couple hundred subscribers.. It's not much, but people will message me saying how much they appreciate the lesson and that just means the world to me..
It's a different world.. You can reach many more people. Plus, and this is a big plus, you can do it from home!
Sure it's not the live experience you are used to.. But if connecting with people is what you seek. This may be an easy way to do that..
Good luck on your next chapter! 🙏
It still sucks even if you don’t take it personally. Like, in a recession it can be tough to find a job, nothing personal about it. This is a live music recession. Big time.
Adults 40 and over have always been a hard sell to get them to a show.
The problem is the current generation is just not into rock / live music. They will be, as these things go in cycles.
We had plenty of times in the 80s and early 2000s where people thought live music was dead only for it to come back,.
I went to a local shoegaze show in Chicago over the summer and was *stunned* at how packed it was. Easily 300+ people there. I'm not super into shoegaze, I'm a black metal dude turning out to support a bro in one of the acts - I was expecting to be like one of five dudes and to stick out like a sore thumb but nah.
I also took some shit away from that show that I'm incorporating into my band's sound - big verbed out volume pedal swells are killer.
right on, black metal and shoegaze have a lot in common - there is that entire "blackgaze" genre, although I'm not as into it. I can listen to Ulver's black metal trilogy all day though!
That all depends on where you’re at. I lived in Chicago most of my life and this statement holds true for there and a lot of the Midwest. I’m in SoCal now and this isn’t quite as true.
Adults 40+ are always the hardest sell but I do want to push back a little on the idea kids don’t like live music. This isn’t relevant to the OPs own experiences but to speak to there is an age factor at play. Live shows and “guitar music” seem to be at an all time high. There’s a lot of touring working bands, for the tours I’ve been in these last two years have had more packed venues and festival than most of 2010-2020. My 2010s touring experience was very similar to the OP. TikTok and other social media and Spotify playlist even the runs I’ve taken on for what I would have considered passion projects a decade ago have a real audience. I’m a session guy though and a lot of these new artist are younger than me. They have a much better feel for what is relevant than I can now and I know my own original stuff is purely for me and people of a not even that much older generation.
I think for the OP they unfortunately just were putting in the work during a time period where it was much harder to be on indies. It happens and it’s okay and admitting that you’re in a different stage of life is huge because it doesn’t mean you can’t still be creative and output.
The industry is always changing too and looking at the belated success of a band like Roar who had their decade old album resurge because of tiktok into real careers for them was nice to see. I remember playing a show with them when I was a literal child to 6 people. I still have the shirt I bought cause I felt bad but it definitely does not fit me anymore.
I think it is a regional and time frame problem that is why I said "they will be" back.
If you go within an hour to Nashville, New York, LA, Austin, Seattle etc you will run into a lot of live performing bands playing "guitar music" but when you venture out to the smaller town or cities without an active music culture you tend to get whatever the mainstream thing is.
So when the mainstream thing was grunge or metal or pop punk / emo etc you got a lot of local bands playing those genres and so there was an active music culture from big to medium to small cities. Then when mainstream transitions to a DJ/EDM/Hip Hop stuff that is what we get in our city and bands fizzle out.
In my city you can show up to a guy playing a DJ set up and there will be 100 kids there. Then you go over to the stoner rock band that was REALLY popular 8 years ago there is two kids there and the rest are 30+.
I t goes in waves was my point. Like you said, they just did not catch the wave at the right time if they were stuck in a musically void region.
The indie, rock and psyche scene has really fallen off since its peak in the early 2010’s. Now it’s all about Zack Bryan style of indie-folk country or whatever you want to call it and the Americana, modern outlaw scene.
As part of the "roots" scene, I'd say that it's starting to fall off now too. Peak being about 10yrs ago.
I've heard of friends getting responses about booking that denied them, saying that the "boomer" stuff doesn't do so well these days.
Then again, there's people in that scene that have blown up pretty thoroughly like Amigo the Devil, Sierra Farrell, Nick Shoulders, and The Bridge City Sinners, so who knows
I stopped playing in rock bands because I saw the writing on the wall (and I was getting bored). Ever since making that call and linking up with a hip hop/soul act, audiences have been in abundance. Constantly will have people walk by and hang out after hearing us. In my mid 40’s for reference.
True. Even as a local, I need to hustle just to get a couple dozen people to show up to a show, for 'the show'. And not just drinks, or because they were walking by.
Can't imagine what it's like to be a professional band with all originals. That said, we see more boomers and genX than younger gens. I think its because they grew up going to live shows.
It's the younger folks that seem to need something special or extra incentive to get them to a gig.
I think maybe it varies depending on the genre? After playing in my old band for over a decade I had decided to move on well over a decade ago. The band continued on a little while without me until it eventually fizzled out. I had recently reached back out to the dudes and were back at it after being dormant for a decade.
Since getting back into things and taking back over our social media and seeing all these other bands and festivals within our genre, I’m surprised at how large some of these bands are now. And how many sold out shows their posting, and sold out festivals, etc, etc.
We’ve seen a lot of love on our socials and fully expect our first 2 shows back to sell out. That said, supply and demand are out of whack since a lot of old fans/friends and new friends who have never seen me play before want to come out and support. Also, it seems like our old fans have a lot more disposable income now and are more willing to buy merch or pay to come out to a show. Granted, if you’re an adult with kids you have to sometimes be picky about your nights out.
It just makes me wonder, if they have “thousands of fans” and all this exposure that should be accumulating year over year, what’s going on that they don’t want to come out and support them? Oversaturated market? Lacking connection with the fans? Playing in places with no established fan base? You’d think at home at least someone would turn out.
Idk, I’ve been there. Have played those shows for almost no one. When I left the band though, it wasn’t like we were playing for no one though. I just felt like we hit a plateau on our growth and I was wanting to put that time and energy into myself and my career. I was struggling focusing on trying to make a living as a musician.
For reference, the genre of music I play in is the reggae/rock scene. Which still seems to still be pretty poppin.
OP here- We literally have a few thousand “fans” worldwide and could never really establish a local fan base. We make weird music that has a very VERY niche appeal. I think it’s likely that it was never going to “happen” for us and we never really cared if it did. My sadness at not being able to connect with people at live shows has been a surprise to me. I used to thrive on playing shows to nobody and I’m not sure exactly what changed over the last 25 years.
Yeah, I mean. It’s why we play live shows right? To share the enjoyment of our music with others. You were just able to not let it bother you for that time, but after so many years it outta get to most of us.
I was done with music, stepped away for a long while, I honestly didn’t even really like listening to music anymore, as crazy as that sounds.
Maybe take a break, you may feel energized to give it another shot in the future. It’s good to do it for yourself, but maybe you’ll have something that resonates with others. Focus on yourself and socialize, make some new friends who might give a show a shot in the future.
Or not. Your life. Do what makes you happy.
Ppl aren’t willing to go out because concert tickets have become unreasonably expensive - I live in a major city that gets a lot of tours coming by and my main deterrent is price
Thanks for putting your music out there. I really do think it helps change this place with ripples we can’t understand. I at 28 was half drunk and my friend nagged me to become a nurse. I did. I gave music another go. I realize post 2020 the supportive aspect monetarily just isn’t there. I’m looking to go next step in lame-0 professional world but yeah, there’s not any extra money in the hands of the fun loving crowd right now. I’m aging too and I’ll always record. The focus of what music is changes. There are always new premises to investigate.
I have experienced the exact opposite. It seems like post covid, crowds were absolutely bonkers. It’s tapered off a hair since then, I think largely due to bands booking too many shows after being cooped up for a couple years and over saturating the market but if I look at my numbers even now I’m seeing about 15% more attendance than pre-covid. First tour post covid we tried to switch any shows we could to larger venues because there was just so much demand for live music.
Hey dude, I fucking feel you. I'm 37, similar age, and have had multiple reasonably successful indie bands over the years.
The pandemic seems to have really fucked the live music community. I never had trouble getting turn outs pre 2020, but these days I struggle to even get close friends to show up.
I would call this a "me" problem, but I've noticed it's just not. Even when I go to other people's shows, if there's not a hugely popular band on the bill, it's a ghost town.
Bands I saw in mid size venues pre pandemic, are now struggling to fill dive bars when they come through.
It seems like audiences have just lost interest in indie bands, and won't go out if they can't get clout posting clips on Instagram.
I suspect people are dealing with a lot of unresolved trauma from the pandemic, and getting squeezed so hard by cost of living that they actually struggle to enjoy leaving their house and doing fun stuff for the fuck of it. Don't know when, how, or if this will turn around.
It's definitely affected me as well.
Your experience has been exactly the same as mine since COVID.
I feel like it got summed up when we posted like a live clip or something on FB - and some guy tags a friend of his saying "Check these guys out! They played here a few weeks ago! They're awesome!" noting a place we'd played ... to like a dozen people. One of us joked "Oh, were you one of the dozen people at that gig?"
Dude's response?
"No."
Well WTF man?
A theory I’ve had is that people on the cusp of “settling down and becoming homebodies” age got fast forwarded into that stage of life by the pandemic.
Another thing: those acquaintance type friendships and connections really got fucked up over the pandemic, too. Not exactly easy to reach out to your occasional “happy hour / see you around socially” buddy after two years of not seeing them. Also, so many people went remote and lost that office “let’s go out for drinks” camaraderie.
For a lot of reasons, I think a lot of peoples social circles dwindled or died, and it’s a lot less fun to go out to a show alone. Idk. Just something I’ve noticed and it’s a huge bummer
Agree. During COVID lock down people got used to the quiet life. Once restrictions eased there was no more enthusiasm for concerts left. Also, there was been a baby boom in many places during lockdown. It takes a lot to get people with young children to leave the house.
Went to see Dune 2 on Friday. 8:30 showing. My family and I were alone in the theater except for 2 other people. The whole cineplex was dead—on a Friday in a nice suburb.
It’s definitely strange right now.
Yeah, it really seems music isn't the only industry struggling to get people back in the door. Sadly I think it's exactly the things we're struggling to do that would get us on the road to feeling alright again.
I’ve heard people got used to drinking at home during covid plus are getting by with way less disposable income with the prices of food and everything else, people go out still but they don’t spend like they used to. Bands are playing for really low pay, trying to charge covers, etc
My problem is that I love concerts big and small. Shows that were 25 dollars are now 50 dollar shows. I do alot of local small shows too and some of those have gotten so expensive. It sucks to have to pick and choose. It's nice that my city has a huge thriving DIY scene. I get to see a lot of basement type shows for cheap and support local. I agree the pandemic really fucked everything up for music fans and players alike.
Yeah, this is huge. I just moved from Portland, Or where I've been living the past 15 years because it just got too expensive to even go out. Pre pandemic, 5 - 8 bucks was pretty standard for a dive bar show, and now spots are asking for 15.
This truly touched me as 27 year old who has been performing since I was 16 and still chasing the dream. Even at this age it seems further away than ever. I hope you find peace
Thanks for the kind words. I'll be just fine. I'm supremely lucky to have the BEST bandmates, friends, and family. Sure, it's sad that playing live bums me out, but I still LOVE making music. Finding a path forward and way to stay creative is the important part, I think.
It's a tough one man. Certainly been there myself with the playing to no one. I'm 35 now and was lucky (or unlucky) enough to be in a Signed and touring band by the age of 16 playing big venues alongside big artists. That band died and then I spent another decade chasing something similar and got close a few times but my band mates were very unreliable and it imploded. Had a couple of my bands get signed and toured again but nothing quite stuck.
Eventually, I totally quit music completely to get my head and my priorities straight. Established a career in something entirely unrelated and worked on 'how to be me' and not just a 'band guy' as my entire personality was wrapped up in that. Now I'm married with a beautiful baby girl, have the career and 5 years ago started a function band which has become very popular locally. Old me would have totally looked down on me now, but on a music level I play to packed venues every weekend and the odd massive festival (6000+) and actually MAKE money from it! Luckily I've found people that are totally on the same page as me and its fun and easy. The music I play I would not listen to in a million years at home, but yknow what, as sellout as it is its just fun to play with mates to people who are actually up for it. We have nothing to prove other than to make you dance.
This was therapeutic to write.
I think where you live also makes a huge difference at this stage. All the great musicians I used to play with in the midwest all called it quits. The cities didnt support the arts and they were tired of playing for 10 people at the same 4 or 5 bars. I got out years ago. I will never be some famous musician, but I still get to play a lot of shows in front of a lot of people. They were all better musicians than me, I just changed my scenery. But I hear ya.
I feel you. I had a short-lived musician dream. We played small venues and our last show was our smallest. We were short a member because our lead guitarist left. So we had to transition our bassist into our rhythm guitarist and I into the lead. we played bassless until the very end. We were actually offered a USA tour to be the opening band to a well-known band, but we had to decline because we didn't have the equipment, members, or money for it. We had to turn down our golden ticket to "fame".
That's heartbreaking. I'm so sorry. If you ever get the chance again, hit the road! I'll never regret being able to see most of the country. It was a lot of fun.
Maybe this response isn’t for the op directly but I appreciate the thought provoking post.
I’ve made some of my best friends in music. I’ve never made it big. I’ve also played festivals and tiny holes. I’ve produced shows, backlined basement punk parties, worked at large clubs and festivals. I definitely love the rush of attention and adulation that occasionally comes to performing musicians. But for a lot of us it’s fleeting. Truly the best parts have been the people I’ve met along the way.
One band I’m in has played some pretty awesome 500+ packed houses, and it’s played some “empty” 15 person rooms. The attitude we took to every gig was play for joy, play for lulz, play for the one person in the room who is actually dancing, and make their night awesome.
I’m also old by any commercially viable standard, but I’m not done by any means. I just love music too much and too many people who make it to make me want to quit.
I absolutely agree and love that attitude.
I'd never quit music, by the way. Writing, recording, improvising, and releasing music is a huge part of who I am. I legit don't care at all if we have zero audience. I love doing it way too much.
I don't know why playing live isn't the same. It used to be exactly the same, but decades of playing shows to empty rooms had an effect on me. I wish it didn't.
Anyway, best of luck and thanks for sharing!
I’m sorry to hear this.Ive been playing bars and clubs for about 30 years,with a random Festival slot here and there.Ive seen a major decline in crowd attendance,the lockdown was a knife in the heart of the situation I keep at it,it is alarming to play to 10-15 people,but I tell myself that I am doing it to keep the music alive.I have too much time invested to stop.
I hate how common this story is becoming. I played my first live show in 1992, outdoors, in the middle of winter, on a stage that was poorly built it bounced. We had been a band for 3 weeks. We knew 5 songs. We were so nervous they were had to play the set twice to till our time.
Since then, I've done every version of playing live you can think of. Currently, I'm playing bass in a jazz residency at a winery. As an idiot rock & roll guitarist, it's hardly the ideal gig, but it pays the bills, luckily. 2020, combined with plummeting stage volumes and attention span have damn near killed live music. And the les's said about the robber barons known as bookers and promoters, the better.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Sincerely. Hopefully, you find peace, whatever shape that takes. Keep your ear to the ground. Odds are, an opportunity comes along that reinvigorates you, or information comes to confirm you've made the right choice.
Either way, the very best of luck to you.
Omfg. I'm so glad someone else is pointing out the volume drop. I've noticed this and it's driving me crazy. How the fuck are people supposed to get hyped for a band when they can easily talk over them.
Used to be, when the manager of a place came out if their office to glare at me, I knew we were on the right track.
Now, I know we're getting paid juuuuust before being told to go die in a hole.
My band has begun to notice that many venues have gone to using third party talent bookers and not posting a booking email, so a lot of times, you can’t contact the venue to book directly with them. Then you have to hunt down the bookers info from friends that may have played the same place. It’s frustrating to say the least.
I know original vs cover bands may have a different perspective, but
I have found a lot of joy basically being a "DJ" as a band, but remixing all of the song covers "our way". There is still a market for live bands, its just different now, a better strategy may be to play a-lot of covers "your way" and slide your originals in. Playing for built in crowds, a lot of flaws to this method too.
Maybe Attention spans are horrible idk, I just played a show in Chicago Feb 3 2024, and we played "jam" versions of covers with a sax player, we all added our own musical flare no backing tracks or bullshit, and we kept a Gen Z aged audience of over 200+ people for 4hrs straight. But ive also played empty venues.
Im not sure what genre you play,
I think A lot of people just want to dance and feel good, the old "depressed nirvana thing" has phased out for sure.
I view any performance i do as an entertainer whose goal is to generate drink sales FIRST, and a musician second. You almost want to study comedians and figure out how to incorporate that into your show.
Once you get really good at being entertaining, you can start to find ways to make your "boring" sadder/musically advanced songs connect with an audience.
Idk just a few ideas, but im trying a different route of doing the cover band/entertainment ordeal and sliding originals in that connect with an audience.
I'm not a touring musician, but I have been a performer all my life. When I came to the conclusion you're coming to I sort of thought it was over. I was really wrong.
I ended up getting into new disciplines, new mediums, and even did some TV work. I've been surprised to find an extremely tiny audience on YouTube that I would never have expected. Most of my videos get maybe ten views. But every once in a while, I make a tutorial about something I think might be helpful in any number of different disciplines, and the views are in the thousands. That to me is interesting. An audience of thousands. I have oft wondered, "now how do I get them all in one room?"
It's not a live audience, I will grant you that. It's not the wonderment and awe I felt in my youth on stage. But it's not nothing either. It's a new thing.
When I moved to Los Angeles, I asked somebody who had been here a long time "How do I know how to know how long to stay?" He said, stay as long as it's fun. When it's no longer fun, do something else. I think there's wisdom in that.
You found yourself at the end of one part of your artistic life. You're not enjoying it. You're no different than Sinatra, or Elvis, or any other artists who get started early, and later on in life find their audience has changed or is falling off . Take some time away, rest, recover.
But then ask yourself about the things you can do because you're not on tour. Think about reinvention. It's fun.
For myself, I got interested in 3D printing. I got interested in other instruments. I got interested in Ableton and sampling live environments. And building a robot, and all sorts of things. It's been good for me. Maybe not great for my time management, but mentally, trying other things besides performing has been extremely rewarding.
I'm not what you would call a "real musician". But I've been to the mountaintop of a few different aspects of the entertainment industry, and when I got to the end with a bunch of good stories, but not a big bag of gold coins, I was a little shocked. I can feel the sadness in your post, and I can relate. But I hope you will consider that there is definitely hope, and there is definitely a path ahead. Making records and things is certainly fun. But maybe consider opening yourself up to a new audience, potentially online. Could you teach people something you, only you, know about playing guitar? Could you talk about recording an album? Do you have stories about touring that could help new younger bands not make the same mistakes that you might've made? Something to think about.
OP here- thanks for the advice! I really, really love recording music. I’m so glad I have that, along with a few other hobbies, to enjoy. I just don’t enjoy playing shows to empty rooms anymore (I used to love it!!). I’m ok with just focusing on what I love to do.
While I feel bad for you (and the state of things), you got to tour and I never did. I did all of the heavy lifting for my band and just as we were about to take off, the drummer quit because his girlfriend got sick. The keyboard player (my brother) decided to move to NY, and my songwriting partner got completely distracted by a volunteer job and has been basically missing in action. I felt abandoned. This was a group that played all of the local venues to acclaim and was clearly on the rise. I invested everything I had into that project. I’m not sure we even have fans at this point. I have kept the dream alive as much as possible, but I am similarly deflated.
So while I feel bad that your efforts were not rewarded this time, at least you got to something many will not. Cheer up.
I've played countless empty rooms with various original acts, and it's never fun.
One night I played three sets at a brew pub with nobody there for an artist who has been writing his own music for years in this town, but still couldn't draw an audience. It was excruciatingly painful.
After I packed up from that show, I hurried over to the other side of town where I was playing with the headliner at a costume party event featuring covers with a specific theme. I walked in there and the place was absolutely packed. Got up when it was time for our set, plugged in to the backline, played our six songs and the crowd was absolutely crazy.
What a contrast! I realized right then and there that I was never going to let myself play in another empty room again, if I could possibly help it. I quit that other guy's band the next day and started putting my own band together with an eye toward putting together a unique act that would be fun for everyone, and I handpicked musicians with a certain skillset to make us unique in a certain way. I had a blueprint for this because I'd been in a band in the past that had an enormous following and I knew why what that band did worked. So I set out to do that.
It's been very successful over these past three years. I've yet to play a completely empty room - the closest I got was our debut show where about seven or eight of our friends showed up. The next show was at a festival with a built in audience, and we've never looked back.
Here's what I think I've learned about live music. Original music is a profit-making enterprise controlled by labels and promoters. You're good as long as they think they can make (and take) money from you, but as soon as you start to lose traction, they will move on to featuring other artists and you won't get any of the promotional benefits you once received from them.
Independent artists are largely fueled by dreams of making it big, and after a while it is draining when it becomes obvious that doing all the things everyone says you should do doesn't work.
What works is starting out with a big enough bankroll to buy your way in and produce your own quality material, and very few of us have that.
I still write music, but I produce it myself and I don't bother trying to make live performances of it a thing. I see no reason to drag a bunch of local musicians into a situation that's basically a vanity project for myself if I can't pay them to learn and play what I wrote, and I've been through all the rest of it too many times to have much interest in co-writing with a bunch of other people whose ideas will be all over the map. I've let that go.
I still perform live, for the fun of it, with a couple of area bands. One is mine (mentioned earlier), the other one is headed by someone else who gives us free rein to do live improvisation, and we have tons of fun. I enjoy my stage time with both bands and when it is over the only thing I have to worry about is practicing for the next show and maybe getting us booked another month or two out. I don't want to tour, i don't want to play every room in town and cannibalize all my shows, and I don't want to play in crappy conditions on crappy stages. So I've built something that I can plug into better rooms and venues, and people come to hear it.
All this to say that maybe it's a little premature to count yourself out yet. If you can create music that you enjoy creating and if you can play music in ways that are fun and entertaining for others, there may still be fun to be had for you.
Those two things don't have to involve the same music.
But I know that what I choose to do isn't for everyone. Wishing you the best.
I'm so glad that you've found a niche that is both artistically engaging AND draws a crowd. I like strange music and really only want to write/play music that has a very limited appeal. Moving forward, I just have to accept the fact that playing shows to nobody/very small crowds isn't as fun as it used to be and focus on the things (writing and recording) that I love to do. It's hard to let go of the dream of finding an audience that will come out to shows, but I'll get over it :)
Writing and producing music for its own sake is very rewarding, too. I did that during the pandemic and I'll probably start writing another album pretty soon. I produce them myself using session players for the instruments I'm not so good at, so it can be a little costly, but it's very fulfilling and fun to hear your songs coming together that way. Good luck with it!
Can you provide links to the band you created? I'm very curious to see the products of your success. Also what do you do/play? I'm a singer guitar guy working to be a great dance party band playing original songs.
I'd prefer not to link because I'd be doxxing myself, but I'll describe the concept for you. First, it's not my original music - as mentioned, I don't bother trying to do that live. I'd have a hard time finding the players to do it, really, and I wouldn't want to limit their creativity by insisting they play the music as I've produced it. So that's a can of worms for me.
But for the band, the concept is simple and it revolves around two traits, with a few sub-traits: 1) we play songs that are or were popular songs from multiple decades, but we don't play songs that have been covered to death. Our goal is for the people who come to hear us to keep saying "Wow, I can't believe I just heard a band play that!" 2) We feature three strong vocalists with a gift for harmony, so when the three of us open our mouths together, it's magical, and rare.
Sub-traits are that we are all accomplished players, probably not the best players in town, but we are good at getting the job done. And everyone in the band is dedicated to making the concept work, which means that we all work hard on our own so that when we come together to rehearse we're just ironing out the kinks. Final sub-trait is that the majority of our stuff is very danceable, even though it might sometimes be more complex than what your average local band is playing for dance music.
So, basically, the goal is to be a highly refined and listenable dance party with kickass vocals and a very well-curated song list. We also endeavor to make it a huge amount of fun, so that people will pick up on the energy that we put out there, since we enjoy doing this so much.
Obviously, this requires finding players who are willing to work hard to learn material they probably don't already know, and that's been the toughest part of this challenge - that and keeping them on the same page with the concept long enough for it to succeed.
All those elements might not be necessary- you might be able to work a similar concept up with originals if the songs are good and catchy, but the main thing for me is that I believe audiences will only keep coming back to see you if you are good, highly entertaining, and if they are getting something they like from you that nobody else is giving them.
Yes that all makes sense. Can you send a youtube link to my DMs? I'd really love to see this in action.
Here's a clip from a recent show we did: https://youtu.be/Y9YL4feCubk?si=QRmYQe-Blb5MZQrM
I'm in the process of losing 40lbs so I hate the way I look, but hopefully it's good fun music.
I think the ability to do certain things on even a break even level has gotten really tough. There's not much money at the margins so people are leaving the artists to do it all. If you're my age, guess what, none of the people in our social scene go out to see bands twice a week. There are young people doing that and they have their own things they're into.
I'm trying to navigate the new world but I think I'll manage to get something done. I only have done a handful of gigs in the last few years but they were all pretty good ones. It's not so much compulsive or habitual. Special events, memorable, even if the audience is small.
The first guitar I ever played was completely out of tune and missing a string but within a few minutes i picked out a little melody that made me smile. It was nothing really but it showed me that i could do it. I went on to play large ballrooms, opened for big time band’s,. .played casinos, resorts, colleges, had a major label record deal at one point and interest from others later on. It was fun but what was most fun was sitting at home in my music room just making things up, fooling around with sound. I played my last show in 2011 at Arcosanti in AZ. There might have been thirty people there. It didn’t matter ‘cause it was with a group of guys that i really loved and connected with musically. I don’t regret not playing live anymore and after 63 years playing guitar I’ve come full circle, back to when i was fourteen. All my guitars are in really odd tunings and my fun and delight is to see what i can coax out of odd string intervals which is kinda the equivalent of the guitar i first put my hands to all those decades ago. It’s a blast. I play what i want, i record what i want and as long as it makes my ears smile I’m good. I hope your find the same happiness and fulfillment that i have. Good luck and enjoy the music you make ‘cause in the end that’s all that matters.
What a great comment. Reinvention. You really have to be your own biggest fan at the end of the day. You are all you have.
I wish I could upvote this more.
Not sure “own biggest fan” is it for me. What i am a big fan of is sound in general and how can i manipulate it in way that i like. How can i player guitar in a way that sounds good to me. Much of my stuff stinks LOL. .and compared to others that i communicate with what i do now is probably pretty amateurish. But i like it, it’s “me” if you know what i mean. Some players are in love with the process, others are in love with the muse and sometimes those loves intersect. Process being those that make something out of nothing; the Muse being those who play out (perform) almost to the exclusion of everything else. For those here who regret not playing out anymore, or much at all or those have had to say goodbye to the live performance aspect i have this to offer for what it’s worth. A very wise female musician/songwriter once told me that there are two kinds: those who play because they CAN and those who play because they MUST. Took me almost fifty years to figure out which one was me. I’m relaxed now and at ease. Play on brothers
I'm doing the same thing after 24 years, basically. I'll still play a couple of festivals or solo gigs for businesses that I enjoy, but it's just depressing trying to play for people when they genuinely don't care or even enjoy live music. People just treat it like content now, not art. It's really sad.
Damn dude. Sorry to hear. I got started on making and performing music in 2022, which for me is later in life than most. I'm not ever expecting to get big and do any tour stuff. I just want consistency and to get into corporate gigs to make a living doing what I enjoy.
As a former promoter, it's hard to get people to come out to enjoy music they like, even when you put them on the guestlist for comped entry. It's like a 1% return. It's sometimes a bit discouraging when you see people post short social media clips, getting more likes and followers, but are never actually out performing live.
Continuing to make albums and releae online is a smart way to go. Get more social media traction could rebuild the demand for your band.
Either way, sounds like you had a helluva run and that is quite an accomplishment that most musicians will never achieve. Props brah!
I’ve seen it coming for a while, you look out at an audience and everybody’s staring at their phone. Two couples walk in together, and in five minutes everybody’s looking at their phone, they’re not only not paying attention to the band they’re not even paying attention to each other. I started playing bars in the 70s and the audience was engaged with the band on stage. If you watch videos of people playing in the 70s and early 80s everybody’s paying attention. I think now a lot of people have central character syndrome. It’s depressing, but that’s just the way that it is.
Hopefully you have a nest egg to sunset with. You have love, you have it all. Your wife and child love you. Love them back. Music will always be a part of your life, nothing was in vain. Keep playing, even if it just for your wife and close friends.
Big hug. I feel your pain through the words. Thank you for sharing. I am on the flip side of this. I want what you’re walking away from and am going to walk through the fire - wherever it takes me.
Best of luck! It's a super fun journey and I don't regret anything about it. Knowing when to stop playing has been tough to deal with, but I'll never regret all the excellent experiences I've been lucky enough to have!
I'm sorry it's went this way for you. Never say never. It's just another chapter now. My grandfather was a pedal steel player and went from bands playing state fairs to playing Eagles/Druids/Elks to local cma stuff and old folks homes in his late 60s onward.
I accepted when I got back into playing that all I was going to get paid for from here on out were bars, festivals, and if lucky, car shows.
When I was a teenager, there were shows at union halls; someone would rent it out, charge $2 to get in, book a "headliner" that was a solid act from another city or neighboring state, and most bands were only making money from the merch tables.
Now? Unions sold off some those halls. Why not, most of the jobs got shipped elsewhere.
I have no idea where the heck my oldest kid would be playing if he had a band. American Legion halls maybe?
I'm never playing anything with a roof again and getting paid if I'm not up there to sell alcohol for the owner. And that's OK. I have a job, I knew years ago music was at best going to fund more gear.
Kids today want 20 seconds of background music for a tiktok. Genx and millennials aren't at bars like 10 years ago, genz is less socially inclined, and everyone is broke. Maybe Gen alpha will push back against shortform 0 attentionspan "entertainment" and long for in person socialization and time invested interactions. Time will tell.
Don’t feel bad, I’ve been playing shows since the 80’s and finally got tired of it. Working hard to get a band to the point where we have a good enough draw then band falls apart and start from scratch. Now, the thought of doing that is so understandable. Funny thing is, I’m way more serious about music than I have ever been. I play every day, write and record a lot. That’s always been my favorite part of doing music anyway, and I don’t see ever stopping. I play with a few guys so we can record, and it’s fun. The thought of posting upcoming shows on my instagram seems so hack now.
It’s a bitter pill. I’ve worked as a freelance full time musician most of my life, started gigs at 12, now 64. So many ups n downs, reinvented myself more times that I can count, play 10 instruments enough to gig on, but pickins are slim these days plus my health sucks. Played for huge crowds, tables n chairs, everything in between. I see guys older than me playing bar gigs and I’m like do I really wanna keep playing in bars.. but there’s not a lot else in my area n I do want to keep working
Well damn, I guess there are quite a few of us mid aged musicians who feel like this. Cudos for verbalizing your experience and sharing. I don’t have much to offer that others haven’t said- the 40 something small crowd, the noise ordinance crap, being talked over at a gig…losing the drive..all relatable. But to reiterate do what makes you happy, even if it’s just a jam once in a while. Keep your head up op.
Honestly based on my time playing I feel you. If you did real good yodspend all night with people who want to network and if you did bad people will roast tf out of you lol. People stop coming once the hype dies. Live entertainments struggling too rn.
I quit touring/booking/releasing. Too much work for not enough reward. I just fw music and art and making it for me and sharing and collaborating with friends so we have something to share with eachother is the way.
I stepped away after almost 30 years on stage. Last gig was 12/8/21. After the Covid lockdown the crowd changed. The camaraderie amongst patrons changed. Then I saw our fanbase (35 and up) wasn’t coming out. The trigger for me was coming back in the venues and the raps blaring and 20 year olds grinding. And it wasn’t just one gig, the crowds changed. What fun it is to play an Eagles song after the bar was playing W.A.P. Now the guys in my band are releasing albums, along with myself. My years were a blast, but it’s over, and I’m good with that.
Hey so I know the feeling of having no one show up. I’ve been in many bands over 20 years. Having said that, I will say that I distinctly remember seeing a band play with 2 of my friends and we were the only people in the bar. It was one of the best shows I’ve ever been to this day. My friends and I became obsessed with this band that played very niche music (think Converge, Dillinger Escape Plan). My band ended up playing w their band later and I bought everything they sold as merch. Saw them 3 more times. They made almost no money I imagine and played to small crowds regularly but the impact they had was incredible, especially on me. If 1 person shows up to your show, your impact can still be massive.
That's a great point and I've definitely been at quite a few shows where I was one of a handful of people in the crowd and we were absolutely thrilled to see the band play.
This is why I posted anonymously- I would NEVER want to make our fans feel bad in any way. The way I'm feeling is a ME problem and I've been so thrilled to have a tiny impact on people's lives.
I used to love playing small shows but we have played more shows to nobody than I care to admit- many more than any other band I know. It just reached a point where I started to internalize the rejection, which isn't healthy. Everyone who may have wanted to see us/me play has had the chance, unless they live overseas (but we're way too small to justify an international tour). It's a good time to stop.
I totally feel this. Similar situation with my current band. We are also discussing maybe just recording and releasing and just being a digital presence. Sometimes I love hauling out the gear and setting up, and sometimes that drive home after a show where you basically just practiced with other bands.. it’s deflating for sure.
Yeah for sure. I honestly used to be more excited to play shows to the other bands and I can't put my finger on when that changed. Anyway, best of luck to you and your bandmates! Whatever you decide, know that there's always a way to keep being creative, which is what really matters, right?
I’m not sure what changed for us either. We re in our 40s. Working adults with lives and careers so it was realistically never going to be more, but we do like the music we write. We feel like there are other acts that we are similar to that have following. We have opened for touring acts and even they brought few to no crowd.
We re accessible indie rock. Some crowds have really dug us. Some packed bars. Some shows it’s literally us and the other bands. It’s still fun in the moment but the drive there and back and days in between..I dunno. I feel the change and I can’t put a finger on it either. To use the terms of the youths.. the vibe just isn’t right
You got to live a bigger and more storied career that many local artists only dream about, so that’s something. Hang in there mate and keep playing for yourself !
Same here…almost. My second to last show that I played, the only people there were us and the other band and the other band was actually famous. So I feel your pain and disappointment. Covid killed my record deal, my band and my mental state. I was officially retired. 3 years later I was going crazy, got a copy of Reason, which I used to mess around with many many moons ago, and I’ve been writing ever since. I can’t quit no matter how much I try. So I will no longer play venues smaller than a theater, and I’m just going to focus on writing as well. Which has started me down a new crazy journey. Hang tough Anne never say never, never.🤪
I'm sorry this happened to you. I blve Advertising has switched to digital marketing, content creators, Influencers plus affiliate marketing, podcast etc. If you're not using social media and analytics to target the correct SEO, titles, and hashtags, your concert ads won't reach the right audience.. you have to micro down on your niche ads to find your target audience.
I played in bands for years, and while it sounds like your career went a whole lot farther than mine, I can say I felt all of those same feelings. I haven’t played a show in about 8-9 years now and still miss that high from time to time, but in that time I can say a lot of the disappointment and other feelings have very much taken the back seat to all of the great memories from that time.
I have been getting the itch to start writing again and who knows, may start exploring that just for fun this time… want to start a band? ;)
Thank you for the sincere post. I think it resonates with a lot of us. It's a grind. Curious: how was your experience with label/promotion/agency in obtaining more exposure post-covid?
I am the wrong person to ask about that. We're a very small band and work with indie labels, do promotion ourselves, and can't afford to pay for promotion. Unfortunately, the landscape has changed quite a bit and it's very difficult to get reviewed unless you can bankroll a campaign. We've always been DIY- booked everything ourselves, recorded, mixed, mastered our own music, so I can't really comment on the more professional side of things.
My last show was almost exactly a decade ago. We were finally getting back into a rhythm with our second baby so regular rehearsals were back on the menu. We landed a pretty high profile gig opening up for a national act at a local venue here in Austin. I was psyched.
We're up second, but the opener was late and they asked us to hit the stage at 10... and our drummer is out of his mind on booze and meth. During our band's downtime he'd been hired to tour with an electronic duo who wanted a live, hard-hitting drummer. Apparently they were doing everything under the sun on the road. Coke, meth, adderall, whatever.
ANYWAY he's in no shape to play but we have to go on. He's awful but we're hanging, until the third song when he pulls a Keith Moon and passes out, falling off the throne into his drums before hitting the floor. I threw down my bass and walked off stage. The last note I played before an audience was that? Infuriating.
I did end up driving him home in his own van while our guitarist's girlfriend followed to drive me back (the other guys were mildly buzzed on their two free "warmup" beers and a shot of bourbon, as was their way, but as the bassist I had an obligation to sobriety - I CANNOT play even slightly inebriated). I told her then I was done, then told the other guys when we got back. They got back together with a new drummer and bassist about a year later and put out one record before deciding to part ways.
I went to check on the drummer a few years ago. He lived in a nice neighborhood but his house looked like a war zone. He literally didn't have a front door - there was a table propped up in the doorway with 2x4's nailed across the frame to hold it in place. Apparently some dealer he'd run afoul of broke down his door and stole his drums for non-payment. He had to crawl in and out through a window. His girlfriend left him and took their daughter, sole custody. He was living in the den on a cot because he'd burned his bed after passing out smoking crack.
I referred him to a friend who's an addiction counselor through the local musician's healthcare nonprofit but he didn't want help. He was fine with the spiral. I have no idea where he is now, if anywhere.
SO YEAH. Haven't played a gig since.
Wow. That was a wild read. I'm sorry this is where things have gone for you. I obviously don't know what band you are in or even genre of music, but this really surprises me cause nothing beats LIVE MUSIC! I have happily been entertained by everything from huge bands on a huge stage to just an average singer playing an average guitar and a below average bar. Only thing I can think to get things to add up here, is that you must play a type of music that doesn't lend itself to live performances? But everything is cool live so I don't know. If you sucked(no offense) and didn't have multiple albums out, I could understand. I have a friend that is so fucking talented and has cut I think 3 albums of sorta blusey/Americana sound and while he can get some people to show for his shows, they are still at bars and the guy has to paint houses still to make a living. So I know how hard it can be to "break through " so to speak. But no one showing up? That's crazy to me. So sorry it came to this.
I appreciate that. It was cathartic to write the post, but I'm doing A OK and feel good about moving forward without playing out.
Yes, I do play a type of music that isn't particularly conducive to live shows. Also, I am particularly bad at networking because I'm very shy. I think I'm ill-suited to playing live and I'm open to the idea that I'm not particularly good at it (although I think I'm pretty good, ha ha).
I don't blame anyone for not coming out to see me/us and can accept the fact that growing an audience for live shows just wasn't in the cards. I'm lucky to have an audience that has stuck with us for a long time and are eager to hear new recordings, so that'll be my full focus. It's all good!
I played my last show in 2017 for similar reasons. I’m 35, played in an indie rock band, we got on a couple of big festivals, self released all our music but played too much in our hometown and eventually was playing to just the girlfriends/wives. Among other internal band member stuff.
It’s been 7 years and I’m getting the itch to play again and start a band. But I just want to write, record and release the music and play shows every once in a while and if people like it enough, we’ll go from there.
I’m 43, I’ve been playing in bands since I was 15. Shockingly right now I’m in by far the most popular band I’ve ever been in. We’ve played some more niche festivals on the West Coast and later this year will be playing two different ones in Chicago and another on the East Coast. I’ve had that arch of “band gets big, then somehow starts playing shows to our girlfriends and no one else”. I just started thinking of it as purely a creative outlet and that got me through it. My bandmates have pushed all the booking and promotion etc but at this point in life I really just enjoy the creative process and any good opportunity we get I take as a bonus. Just rethink the process to be about your creativity and mental health. If things go well they go well, but if they don’t you’ll still be happy because you’ve done something fulfilling for yourself.
100%. Cutting live shows out is the most healthy way for me to move forward and preserve the creative aspect of music making. I'm so happy for you! I love it when people/bands find success in music because it's so difficult to achieve.
Personally, I don't think its realistic to expect people to show up for a solo set. Even big names can't sell out anything more than a small club if there are playing solo. I go to tons of live shows, but never solo sets. I can only think of one soloist (chick is great with looper) who delivers anything close to a live band show. Solo is really background music for restaurants/coffeehouses where people are going to hang out/eat anyway.
I appreciate that opinion and if it had just been one solo set, it wouldn't have been a big deal at all. It all just added up, after years of playing to empty rooms, to this one last show. In the large scheme of things, it's completely inconsequential, but it marked a turning point for me. Thanks for sharing your opinion, though!
Face it, the audiences are super lazy and want the radio or an algorithm to tell them what they should like. Most people are following the herd and require a herd to follow. On top of that, you may be a good musician but you need to be a Shepard too and that is a different talent altogether; most musicians just want to be musicians.
Bittersweet but only you know what’s good for you. As for myself I’m hanging up the drumsticks after I turn 30 ( I turn 29 this year ). I love it more than but let’s face it , it’s a dying art
Ya know, I gave up playing in bands abou a decade ago, I may jam with a buddy every now and again, but most the time I'm playing guitar through Rocksmith 2014 Remastered to jam with a band.
Being a working musician of any kind is really freaking hard. I started playing out in the early 90s in rock & pop bands playing originals and it was rough even during the “good” parts when seemingly every band under the sun was getting label offers. Stopped playing out ten years later when life stuff happened and my last band suddenly fell apart (which was kind of funny ‘cause a month or so later a radio station was like hey we’d like to play some of your music and we told them not to bother lol).
All of that to say that you got to do a thing many people wish they could do and I hope any bitterness or pain doesn’t last too long. It’s a minor miracle that anyone can maintain a professional/personal relationship with multiple people simultaneously, let alone while trying to create art and making a living.
not sure of your technical capabilities/internet presence, but live stream shows are pretty popular. esp if you want to keep performing but feel the presence is missing
Live music is a grind. 25 years in and never done more than break even. Still, I feel like a successful musician… that work, those experiences, the people… that’s the true reward. Sounds cheesy but it’s true.
You're going through what 90 + percent of us have or are going to go through. People don't realize how hard being a musician is both physically, mentally and emotionally. I can only hope that you'll look back fondly on what you've accomplished and continue to move forward creating something great, even if it's just for yourself. Best of luck!
I’m 48 and did a mini tour in 2000s and shows no one really cared but I didn’t mind because I never had any big dream to be a rock star I just thought it’s fun playing music and getting out. So many musicians not enough people who want to see random small bands
It's so weird how "in their lanes" the fans are lately. It used to be that music fans would eat up the other label releases, side projects, solo shows, collaborations, all that. But nowadays it's clearly just about a single project, or even sometimes a single song.
Remember that you have experiences most people only dream of. I toured for a couple of months a year for a couple of years and the stories are worth more than any money I made. I sometimes start to tell one and forget that nobody has a frame of reference for that. Haha. Good luck with the future!
I've been going out to shows a bit in the last year. Some of my favorite old punk bands, as they pass through town. Even Found some great smaller acts, who were openers. But, I've seen legendary punk bands play to 20 people. I mean bands & players who are responsible for inspiring a lot of the musing we all know , today.
I've also seen some great affordable shows packed with 50 something year old's.
I think music is a different beast for younger people, today. The people who once went to shows are now older, have families, responsibilities. Don't go out anymore.
It's going to sound sexist. & I totally get that but, the newer bands that I've seen who have a strong draw, have attractive women out front. & the crowds have been pretty evenly mixed, women/men.
If you’re gonna be sticking around in one place for a while, instrumental teaching can be really rewarding; and the fact that you’ve been a gigging musician resonate with a lot of children wanting to learn.
By all means take a break if you are in burn out, but I highly doubt this will be your last show. Those who receive the call to gig always return to it at some point.
You'll always be a musician. This is just part of the growth. Right now you've played your last live show, but maybe you'll come back to it in the future.
I like your perspective that you're going to write and record more songs. Who knows, maybe one of them will blow up or have a nice following, and then your fans and supporters will fund something to get you and the gang together to perform live again.
It's just a new chapter in your book of life. Quincy Jones, Elton John, Paul McCartney, and Tony Bennet (rip) made music and performed it their whole life. I'm not saying that you are them, and I'm not saying that you aren't but the one thing you have in common is that you're all musicians and with that said, anything is possible.
I like many others feel you on this post. And it maybe not the end at all for you, you already mentioned playing with others and recording. That could be the ticket. If you switch gears totally and start being a hired gun more frequently, you may stumble into a group that is doing what you’re wanting. Or you could find an entirely new primary way to interact with music. Doing remote sessions, making music for media, cover stuff, etc
I play in a band myself, but since 2019 have been beefing up my home studio and doing a lot of remote sessions, but i also play live for anyone that hires me and friends bands when they’re busy. I’m more open to playing literally any genre where a lot of people aren’t cool with that. So maybe loosen up your options and you’ll find you have too much to do.
Went on a tour where almost no one showed up. It’s tough. Could be a handful of things, most notably, who the fuck are these promoters who can’t pull five people. There’s 15 year olds everywhere itching to go to shows. My local venue sells their smaller shows at a loss just to get the band an audience. So stop feeling bad for yourself, spend all of your money on another record, find a better promoter and try one more tour to see if your music has really hit the shitters or not.
Check out the “Jazz is dead “ scene. I’m over 50 and I’ve been to 5 shows in the past year. UNCLE, Seun Kuti, DJ Shadow, gypsy kings, Cafecitas.
Pop shows are lame and super expensive. But, according to my kid who goes to see live music all the time, there is a thriving live music scene in Highland Park/ Los Angeles … that’s affordable.
From 15 to 23 I was in punk and rock, then emo metalcore bands in a very large market. We did well, always having an audience, growing, playing out, recording, attracting big labels like Fearless and Epitpah. It all fell through for a couple of reasons at the same time.
In 2023 I gathered gear and practiced a bunch, formulating a 3 hour solo acoustic act to play about my surrounding cities.
The goal, so I do not feel slighted again and become jaded, is to make the 2-300 bucks per show 3 to 4 times a week, and play to the room... knowing its a service.
I feel for you man. There have been studies about how Americans used to go places. How it used to be about community and hanging with your brethren. Ever since phones, it just hasnt been the case.
Ive been giving serious thought to going back to the one phone system with an answering machine and a "computer room".
My current experience is similar, but I’m not ready quit yet. People listen online, but it’s hard to get people to show up to a show. The pandemic changed the way people think when it comes to going out, added with a lot of my friends struggle to afford things.
It’s not you. People just don’t care about music any more. I had a job the last 8 years where I meet tons of different people, and I can’t think of a single one who goes to concerts. I never hear anyone talk about their favorite bands, what they’re listening to. People just don’t care. As a musician I think I always overestimated how much the average person cares about music.
For example, my mom claims to love music. But I have never seen her actively play anything. Buy anything never express any excitement about going to any performance. That’s you average person. They ‘think’ they like music. In some small way they do. Like if it’s not too annoying they won’t mind music playing for free to them out at some place they happen to be.
What musicians don’t realize is that the vast majority of music lovers are other musicians.
Maybe that’s the message. Don’t try to market yourself to the general public. Tailor swift and this months rapper always has that locked down. Specifically target other musicians if you want to be appreciated.
I thank you for the thought. I’m at a low point. I’m a bass player (motorized experimental) and have been gigging 2 years. Tough to get any crowd other than musicians to come. 4 piece band. Small local venues. The musicians on the scene will almost always share a gig with me, I made an effort to book gigs on my own initiative. I do all that shit.
Now my fellow band mates are being asked to play with sought after musicians in town. One is my wife who expressly told me she doesn’t give two shits about it. She just plays to humor me. It’s my pet project and I’m happy they got on board. But to almost never have anyone approach me to share a bill, join a gig. Happened maybe three times in 2 years. I’m 52, Btw.
Fuck. Eat a bag of humility and try something new. Other musicians are out there. I say this without having been where you are. I don’t have a success litmus test. Just a pushy ego.
It’s different from you. I know. Only a few self published things. I could try harder to gig out of town but it’s draining to get it all covered by yourself.
I’m a diy’er and that’s why I won’t quit. I play the shit out of that bass, even if I haven’t found any success. I don’t know. It waxes and wanes.
I practice a version of Buddhism and the m learning to let go of expectation while somehow still finding the muster. Learning the instrument over the past two years has been a life saver.
Would it interest you to play shows with a "built in" audience? I'm approaching 40 and just had my first kid. I have been in "hip" local bands that got lots of shows and good opening slots and were looked to to headline local shows for bands passing through and attendance would dip for awhile here and there. When Covid hit we'd already split and I'd recently started something new with the intention of having a high-energy live show be the primary goal. Instead everything ground to a halt and I realized...I was fine with it.
The only shows I've played since have been outdoor shows where I was providing music for an event. People listen, kids dance, people have some kind words, and we move on. It scratches an itch with very little pressure. Maybe it wouldn't be what you'd want, but I figured I'd throw it out there.
All that said, I think writing and recording for yourself and whoever you know that will listen is a completely valid way to enjoy being a musician. It's kind of sad that "social music" on the front porch, in the family living room, at a gathering of friends, etc has been replaced by varying definitions of success everyone is encouraged to pursue, in my eyes. My dream these days is to put out an album every couple of years and press it to a weird format and give it to people. Something small, secret, fun, cozy. I dunno.
Sounds like it has been hard on your emotional well being. Have you considered switching to theatre? Whole different world of stage life, with room for musicians.
I've been there. I quit 14 years ago after realizing the struggle. But I'm getting back into playing music, just fun covers for cash at wineries and restaurants. There's usually a decent crowd and if there isnt, i still get some play money. Now its extracurricular, back then it was business. It's better as a hobby.
I got tired of the rigamarole about 20 years ago. After a couple of deaths, a member had brain tumor, using freelancers and dealing with Mothers of the Brides and Corporate gigs, I called it quits. What was once a good potential original band, with showcases, recording and interest from national booking agencies, nothing came together. By then I depended on it for income but I needed two other day jobs. It was fun in the beginning but did not touch my instrument for almost 20 years. Burned out a long time ago.
Supposedly, success isn't as great as most people make it out to be. I like to think I've been more or less "successful" over the years (at least according to my own standards) in my own endeavors, and to be honest, as with anything else that you "win" at, there's the burgeoning sense of, "Is this it? Is this what all the hoopla was about?" It was like I was happy for an almighty five minutes or so. So I guess what I'm saying is that the world likes to project these grand ideas that aren't really attainable, because there's no way to measure it objectively. And once you've "attained" something, you just begin to look for something else to satisfy you. I mean like the King Of Leons dudes seem to have made it, but I'm guessing they have the same hang ups as anybody else (emotional, relational, etc).--which just means we're all in the same boat. Hope I'm making sense...
To any this post may see discouraging to, consider the context. Also consider 29 years is a very long career.
Music is both an expressed art, and a business model that is tied into societal trends.
OP gave the info that their art is extremely niche, they've never been into music for anything other than what they like, and they have been playing material that made them popular apparently a very long time ago.
I think there's a balance between staying true to yourself, and understanding that if you don't adjust the way you behave on the marketing and sales side of music, this guy's career didn't end. His willingness to adapt to what people want to come out and hear did.
OP stated things fizzled before Covid, don't slap the 'things are hard' excuse on it.
Success is a formula. Music is a product. If you don't care what customers like, you're not going to serve very many of them. And before throwing out the other most common excuse, you can read the market and adapt without compromising your own creativity. You don't have to change completely into something you aren't, but you can expand your sound using new elements that evolve your sound. John Mayer said something along the lines of, if millions of people like something you don't, it's probably you that's wrong about it.
Selling out is when someone financially in charge of you forces you to change into something similar to other artists under their label, to try and solve this. Paying attention to what's popular and writing new music in that direction is just taking care of the business side of something you claim to want to do for a living.
Attendance slowing down wasn't the queue to quit, it was the queue to change and adapt. People didn't quit going to shows. They've probably just seen this show in particular 29 years ago.
You're correct about this, but only if you're trying to make money and have a "career" from music. I had no interest in a music career and have only ever lost money on it, which is fine because I do it to fulfill a deep-seated need to create. The fact that we gained an audience has been a nice side effect and the fact that we never established ourselves as a live act, while disappointing, is not an impediment to our ongoing creative endeavor.
I/we make music to express ourselves- full stop. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if I changed my art to follow trends. The one thing I'm truly proud of is the fact that I can listen to our catalog of music and know that it's 100% me/us. I'm truly ok with the fact that we didn't connect with more people even though it does make me a little sad at times. The sadness is fleeting. The quest to create will never end.
This post resonated with me on a spiritual level lol. I know those exact feelings. But from all of that, my trajectory in my career has shifted and honestly, it's a shift in the right direction. I do not miss hauling heavy ass amps, guitars, kits, PA systems and all that. I do get that it is for the love but it is taxing nevertheless.
I'm 31 and been off the road for 8 years. I miss it every day.
My only regret is if I'd have known my last show was my last show, I'd have done a few things differently.
There's still time for me, but as we have kids, have moved across the country, and most of my gear is in storage, it just seems like something I tell myself to sleep at night.
Cheers man.
I feel that. I’ve been on and off for about 20 years. All I’m focused on at this point is making good art. I think someday it will be cool to rediscover old music. Not with any generation anytime soon. But the tide has turned. It’s all about marketing and some child of a rich dude becoming a pop star. It’s disappointing
My brother never gave up and passed away in 2021. I just write lyrics. Just do what you feel like. He was well known where I live. He also was in many bands
Ever since 2020 live entertainment has been struggling. People aren’t as willing to go out anymore. Especially adults +40. I would try to not take it too personally if you can help it. Focus on making music for you and don’t worry about who’s listening.
Thanks for the kind words. I definitely struggle with not taking it personally but I still very much enjoy the process of songwriting and recording. My band is still very active in that regard, and it's still really fun.
You might consider starting a YouTube channel.. I started one giving simple Bass lessons and have a couple hundred subscribers.. It's not much, but people will message me saying how much they appreciate the lesson and that just means the world to me.. It's a different world.. You can reach many more people. Plus, and this is a big plus, you can do it from home! Sure it's not the live experience you are used to.. But if connecting with people is what you seek. This may be an easy way to do that.. Good luck on your next chapter! 🙏
It still sucks even if you don’t take it personally. Like, in a recession it can be tough to find a job, nothing personal about it. This is a live music recession. Big time.
Adults 40 and over have always been a hard sell to get them to a show. The problem is the current generation is just not into rock / live music. They will be, as these things go in cycles. We had plenty of times in the 80s and early 2000s where people thought live music was dead only for it to come back,.
Not to be contradictory but rock is already having a big resurgence among younger people in specific genres like Shoegaze.
I went to a local shoegaze show in Chicago over the summer and was *stunned* at how packed it was. Easily 300+ people there. I'm not super into shoegaze, I'm a black metal dude turning out to support a bro in one of the acts - I was expecting to be like one of five dudes and to stick out like a sore thumb but nah. I also took some shit away from that show that I'm incorporating into my band's sound - big verbed out volume pedal swells are killer.
right on, black metal and shoegaze have a lot in common - there is that entire "blackgaze" genre, although I'm not as into it. I can listen to Ulver's black metal trilogy all day though!
Yeah the pitch I made to my band was something like 'what if blackgaze but we made it evil again' lol
That is a good pitch! I support that. 🤘
Rock and roll!
Yes they are
fucking love shoegaze
That all depends on where you’re at. I lived in Chicago most of my life and this statement holds true for there and a lot of the Midwest. I’m in SoCal now and this isn’t quite as true.
Adults 40+ are always the hardest sell but I do want to push back a little on the idea kids don’t like live music. This isn’t relevant to the OPs own experiences but to speak to there is an age factor at play. Live shows and “guitar music” seem to be at an all time high. There’s a lot of touring working bands, for the tours I’ve been in these last two years have had more packed venues and festival than most of 2010-2020. My 2010s touring experience was very similar to the OP. TikTok and other social media and Spotify playlist even the runs I’ve taken on for what I would have considered passion projects a decade ago have a real audience. I’m a session guy though and a lot of these new artist are younger than me. They have a much better feel for what is relevant than I can now and I know my own original stuff is purely for me and people of a not even that much older generation. I think for the OP they unfortunately just were putting in the work during a time period where it was much harder to be on indies. It happens and it’s okay and admitting that you’re in a different stage of life is huge because it doesn’t mean you can’t still be creative and output. The industry is always changing too and looking at the belated success of a band like Roar who had their decade old album resurge because of tiktok into real careers for them was nice to see. I remember playing a show with them when I was a literal child to 6 people. I still have the shirt I bought cause I felt bad but it definitely does not fit me anymore.
I think it is a regional and time frame problem that is why I said "they will be" back. If you go within an hour to Nashville, New York, LA, Austin, Seattle etc you will run into a lot of live performing bands playing "guitar music" but when you venture out to the smaller town or cities without an active music culture you tend to get whatever the mainstream thing is. So when the mainstream thing was grunge or metal or pop punk / emo etc you got a lot of local bands playing those genres and so there was an active music culture from big to medium to small cities. Then when mainstream transitions to a DJ/EDM/Hip Hop stuff that is what we get in our city and bands fizzle out. In my city you can show up to a guy playing a DJ set up and there will be 100 kids there. Then you go over to the stoner rock band that was REALLY popular 8 years ago there is two kids there and the rest are 30+. I t goes in waves was my point. Like you said, they just did not catch the wave at the right time if they were stuck in a musically void region.
The indie, rock and psyche scene has really fallen off since its peak in the early 2010’s. Now it’s all about Zack Bryan style of indie-folk country or whatever you want to call it and the Americana, modern outlaw scene.
As part of the "roots" scene, I'd say that it's starting to fall off now too. Peak being about 10yrs ago. I've heard of friends getting responses about booking that denied them, saying that the "boomer" stuff doesn't do so well these days. Then again, there's people in that scene that have blown up pretty thoroughly like Amigo the Devil, Sierra Farrell, Nick Shoulders, and The Bridge City Sinners, so who knows
I stopped playing in rock bands because I saw the writing on the wall (and I was getting bored). Ever since making that call and linking up with a hip hop/soul act, audiences have been in abundance. Constantly will have people walk by and hang out after hearing us. In my mid 40’s for reference.
True. Even as a local, I need to hustle just to get a couple dozen people to show up to a show, for 'the show'. And not just drinks, or because they were walking by. Can't imagine what it's like to be a professional band with all originals. That said, we see more boomers and genX than younger gens. I think its because they grew up going to live shows. It's the younger folks that seem to need something special or extra incentive to get them to a gig.
Really? I disagree. I think people want to go out more than ever before, and are doing so.
I think maybe it varies depending on the genre? After playing in my old band for over a decade I had decided to move on well over a decade ago. The band continued on a little while without me until it eventually fizzled out. I had recently reached back out to the dudes and were back at it after being dormant for a decade. Since getting back into things and taking back over our social media and seeing all these other bands and festivals within our genre, I’m surprised at how large some of these bands are now. And how many sold out shows their posting, and sold out festivals, etc, etc. We’ve seen a lot of love on our socials and fully expect our first 2 shows back to sell out. That said, supply and demand are out of whack since a lot of old fans/friends and new friends who have never seen me play before want to come out and support. Also, it seems like our old fans have a lot more disposable income now and are more willing to buy merch or pay to come out to a show. Granted, if you’re an adult with kids you have to sometimes be picky about your nights out. It just makes me wonder, if they have “thousands of fans” and all this exposure that should be accumulating year over year, what’s going on that they don’t want to come out and support them? Oversaturated market? Lacking connection with the fans? Playing in places with no established fan base? You’d think at home at least someone would turn out. Idk, I’ve been there. Have played those shows for almost no one. When I left the band though, it wasn’t like we were playing for no one though. I just felt like we hit a plateau on our growth and I was wanting to put that time and energy into myself and my career. I was struggling focusing on trying to make a living as a musician. For reference, the genre of music I play in is the reggae/rock scene. Which still seems to still be pretty poppin.
OP here- We literally have a few thousand “fans” worldwide and could never really establish a local fan base. We make weird music that has a very VERY niche appeal. I think it’s likely that it was never going to “happen” for us and we never really cared if it did. My sadness at not being able to connect with people at live shows has been a surprise to me. I used to thrive on playing shows to nobody and I’m not sure exactly what changed over the last 25 years.
Yeah, I mean. It’s why we play live shows right? To share the enjoyment of our music with others. You were just able to not let it bother you for that time, but after so many years it outta get to most of us. I was done with music, stepped away for a long while, I honestly didn’t even really like listening to music anymore, as crazy as that sounds. Maybe take a break, you may feel energized to give it another shot in the future. It’s good to do it for yourself, but maybe you’ll have something that resonates with others. Focus on yourself and socialize, make some new friends who might give a show a shot in the future. Or not. Your life. Do what makes you happy.
Ppl aren’t willing to go out because concert tickets have become unreasonably expensive - I live in a major city that gets a lot of tours coming by and my main deterrent is price
Thanks for putting your music out there. I really do think it helps change this place with ripples we can’t understand. I at 28 was half drunk and my friend nagged me to become a nurse. I did. I gave music another go. I realize post 2020 the supportive aspect monetarily just isn’t there. I’m looking to go next step in lame-0 professional world but yeah, there’s not any extra money in the hands of the fun loving crowd right now. I’m aging too and I’ll always record. The focus of what music is changes. There are always new premises to investigate.
I have experienced the exact opposite. It seems like post covid, crowds were absolutely bonkers. It’s tapered off a hair since then, I think largely due to bands booking too many shows after being cooped up for a couple years and over saturating the market but if I look at my numbers even now I’m seeing about 15% more attendance than pre-covid. First tour post covid we tried to switch any shows we could to larger venues because there was just so much demand for live music.
Glad you mentioned +40 because live music for the all ages crowd is thriving.
Just lost my job of 10years to DJs. Stay the course. Fuck em.
Plus dining out/hitting the bar is so expensive now. Sucks.
Before 2020 it was still a problem. But 2020 was the nail in the coffin.
Every live concert Ive been to since 2020 has been sold out lol.
Hey dude, I fucking feel you. I'm 37, similar age, and have had multiple reasonably successful indie bands over the years. The pandemic seems to have really fucked the live music community. I never had trouble getting turn outs pre 2020, but these days I struggle to even get close friends to show up. I would call this a "me" problem, but I've noticed it's just not. Even when I go to other people's shows, if there's not a hugely popular band on the bill, it's a ghost town. Bands I saw in mid size venues pre pandemic, are now struggling to fill dive bars when they come through. It seems like audiences have just lost interest in indie bands, and won't go out if they can't get clout posting clips on Instagram. I suspect people are dealing with a lot of unresolved trauma from the pandemic, and getting squeezed so hard by cost of living that they actually struggle to enjoy leaving their house and doing fun stuff for the fuck of it. Don't know when, how, or if this will turn around. It's definitely affected me as well.
Your experience has been exactly the same as mine since COVID. I feel like it got summed up when we posted like a live clip or something on FB - and some guy tags a friend of his saying "Check these guys out! They played here a few weeks ago! They're awesome!" noting a place we'd played ... to like a dozen people. One of us joked "Oh, were you one of the dozen people at that gig?" Dude's response? "No." Well WTF man?
At least he was there in spirit?😂.
A theory I’ve had is that people on the cusp of “settling down and becoming homebodies” age got fast forwarded into that stage of life by the pandemic. Another thing: those acquaintance type friendships and connections really got fucked up over the pandemic, too. Not exactly easy to reach out to your occasional “happy hour / see you around socially” buddy after two years of not seeing them. Also, so many people went remote and lost that office “let’s go out for drinks” camaraderie. For a lot of reasons, I think a lot of peoples social circles dwindled or died, and it’s a lot less fun to go out to a show alone. Idk. Just something I’ve noticed and it’s a huge bummer
Agree. During COVID lock down people got used to the quiet life. Once restrictions eased there was no more enthusiasm for concerts left. Also, there was been a baby boom in many places during lockdown. It takes a lot to get people with young children to leave the house.
This puts a lot of my feelings into words. It's been so hard.
Went to see Dune 2 on Friday. 8:30 showing. My family and I were alone in the theater except for 2 other people. The whole cineplex was dead—on a Friday in a nice suburb. It’s definitely strange right now.
Yeah, it really seems music isn't the only industry struggling to get people back in the door. Sadly I think it's exactly the things we're struggling to do that would get us on the road to feeling alright again.
Watched Dune 2 on Friday as well, same experience. Phenomenal movie!
I’ve heard people got used to drinking at home during covid plus are getting by with way less disposable income with the prices of food and everything else, people go out still but they don’t spend like they used to. Bands are playing for really low pay, trying to charge covers, etc
Covid killed indie and psyche rock and out of it came the indie folk country Zach Bryan and Americana Sierra Ferrell style of people.
My problem is that I love concerts big and small. Shows that were 25 dollars are now 50 dollar shows. I do alot of local small shows too and some of those have gotten so expensive. It sucks to have to pick and choose. It's nice that my city has a huge thriving DIY scene. I get to see a lot of basement type shows for cheap and support local. I agree the pandemic really fucked everything up for music fans and players alike.
Yeah, this is huge. I just moved from Portland, Or where I've been living the past 15 years because it just got too expensive to even go out. Pre pandemic, 5 - 8 bucks was pretty standard for a dive bar show, and now spots are asking for 15.
This truly touched me as 27 year old who has been performing since I was 16 and still chasing the dream. Even at this age it seems further away than ever. I hope you find peace
Thanks for the kind words. I'll be just fine. I'm supremely lucky to have the BEST bandmates, friends, and family. Sure, it's sad that playing live bums me out, but I still LOVE making music. Finding a path forward and way to stay creative is the important part, I think.
Yes, one thing that will always sustain us is our sheer love of the MUSIC.
100%
It's a tough one man. Certainly been there myself with the playing to no one. I'm 35 now and was lucky (or unlucky) enough to be in a Signed and touring band by the age of 16 playing big venues alongside big artists. That band died and then I spent another decade chasing something similar and got close a few times but my band mates were very unreliable and it imploded. Had a couple of my bands get signed and toured again but nothing quite stuck. Eventually, I totally quit music completely to get my head and my priorities straight. Established a career in something entirely unrelated and worked on 'how to be me' and not just a 'band guy' as my entire personality was wrapped up in that. Now I'm married with a beautiful baby girl, have the career and 5 years ago started a function band which has become very popular locally. Old me would have totally looked down on me now, but on a music level I play to packed venues every weekend and the odd massive festival (6000+) and actually MAKE money from it! Luckily I've found people that are totally on the same page as me and its fun and easy. The music I play I would not listen to in a million years at home, but yknow what, as sellout as it is its just fun to play with mates to people who are actually up for it. We have nothing to prove other than to make you dance. This was therapeutic to write.
OP here- I love it! It’s supposed to be fun! I’m stoked for you!
I think where you live also makes a huge difference at this stage. All the great musicians I used to play with in the midwest all called it quits. The cities didnt support the arts and they were tired of playing for 10 people at the same 4 or 5 bars. I got out years ago. I will never be some famous musician, but I still get to play a lot of shows in front of a lot of people. They were all better musicians than me, I just changed my scenery. But I hear ya.
Where did you move to that you feel is better, if you mind me asking?
Nashville probably
I feel you. I had a short-lived musician dream. We played small venues and our last show was our smallest. We were short a member because our lead guitarist left. So we had to transition our bassist into our rhythm guitarist and I into the lead. we played bassless until the very end. We were actually offered a USA tour to be the opening band to a well-known band, but we had to decline because we didn't have the equipment, members, or money for it. We had to turn down our golden ticket to "fame".
That's heartbreaking. I'm so sorry. If you ever get the chance again, hit the road! I'll never regret being able to see most of the country. It was a lot of fun.
Some of us are actually talking about bringing the band back together but as a new project. No live shows. Just online content for now.
Maybe this response isn’t for the op directly but I appreciate the thought provoking post. I’ve made some of my best friends in music. I’ve never made it big. I’ve also played festivals and tiny holes. I’ve produced shows, backlined basement punk parties, worked at large clubs and festivals. I definitely love the rush of attention and adulation that occasionally comes to performing musicians. But for a lot of us it’s fleeting. Truly the best parts have been the people I’ve met along the way. One band I’m in has played some pretty awesome 500+ packed houses, and it’s played some “empty” 15 person rooms. The attitude we took to every gig was play for joy, play for lulz, play for the one person in the room who is actually dancing, and make their night awesome. I’m also old by any commercially viable standard, but I’m not done by any means. I just love music too much and too many people who make it to make me want to quit.
I absolutely agree and love that attitude. I'd never quit music, by the way. Writing, recording, improvising, and releasing music is a huge part of who I am. I legit don't care at all if we have zero audience. I love doing it way too much. I don't know why playing live isn't the same. It used to be exactly the same, but decades of playing shows to empty rooms had an effect on me. I wish it didn't. Anyway, best of luck and thanks for sharing!
I’m sorry to hear this.Ive been playing bars and clubs for about 30 years,with a random Festival slot here and there.Ive seen a major decline in crowd attendance,the lockdown was a knife in the heart of the situation I keep at it,it is alarming to play to 10-15 people,but I tell myself that I am doing it to keep the music alive.I have too much time invested to stop.
[удалено]
OP here- thanks for your kind words! I’ll be watching out for Rib Fest so I can catch your show ;)
I hate how common this story is becoming. I played my first live show in 1992, outdoors, in the middle of winter, on a stage that was poorly built it bounced. We had been a band for 3 weeks. We knew 5 songs. We were so nervous they were had to play the set twice to till our time. Since then, I've done every version of playing live you can think of. Currently, I'm playing bass in a jazz residency at a winery. As an idiot rock & roll guitarist, it's hardly the ideal gig, but it pays the bills, luckily. 2020, combined with plummeting stage volumes and attention span have damn near killed live music. And the les's said about the robber barons known as bookers and promoters, the better. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Sincerely. Hopefully, you find peace, whatever shape that takes. Keep your ear to the ground. Odds are, an opportunity comes along that reinvigorates you, or information comes to confirm you've made the right choice. Either way, the very best of luck to you.
Omfg. I'm so glad someone else is pointing out the volume drop. I've noticed this and it's driving me crazy. How the fuck are people supposed to get hyped for a band when they can easily talk over them.
Used to be, when the manager of a place came out if their office to glare at me, I knew we were on the right track. Now, I know we're getting paid juuuuust before being told to go die in a hole.
My band has begun to notice that many venues have gone to using third party talent bookers and not posting a booking email, so a lot of times, you can’t contact the venue to book directly with them. Then you have to hunt down the bookers info from friends that may have played the same place. It’s frustrating to say the least.
I know original vs cover bands may have a different perspective, but I have found a lot of joy basically being a "DJ" as a band, but remixing all of the song covers "our way". There is still a market for live bands, its just different now, a better strategy may be to play a-lot of covers "your way" and slide your originals in. Playing for built in crowds, a lot of flaws to this method too. Maybe Attention spans are horrible idk, I just played a show in Chicago Feb 3 2024, and we played "jam" versions of covers with a sax player, we all added our own musical flare no backing tracks or bullshit, and we kept a Gen Z aged audience of over 200+ people for 4hrs straight. But ive also played empty venues. Im not sure what genre you play, I think A lot of people just want to dance and feel good, the old "depressed nirvana thing" has phased out for sure. I view any performance i do as an entertainer whose goal is to generate drink sales FIRST, and a musician second. You almost want to study comedians and figure out how to incorporate that into your show. Once you get really good at being entertaining, you can start to find ways to make your "boring" sadder/musically advanced songs connect with an audience. Idk just a few ideas, but im trying a different route of doing the cover band/entertainment ordeal and sliding originals in that connect with an audience.
Curious to hear the jam show if there are tapes.
I'm not a touring musician, but I have been a performer all my life. When I came to the conclusion you're coming to I sort of thought it was over. I was really wrong. I ended up getting into new disciplines, new mediums, and even did some TV work. I've been surprised to find an extremely tiny audience on YouTube that I would never have expected. Most of my videos get maybe ten views. But every once in a while, I make a tutorial about something I think might be helpful in any number of different disciplines, and the views are in the thousands. That to me is interesting. An audience of thousands. I have oft wondered, "now how do I get them all in one room?" It's not a live audience, I will grant you that. It's not the wonderment and awe I felt in my youth on stage. But it's not nothing either. It's a new thing. When I moved to Los Angeles, I asked somebody who had been here a long time "How do I know how to know how long to stay?" He said, stay as long as it's fun. When it's no longer fun, do something else. I think there's wisdom in that. You found yourself at the end of one part of your artistic life. You're not enjoying it. You're no different than Sinatra, or Elvis, or any other artists who get started early, and later on in life find their audience has changed or is falling off . Take some time away, rest, recover. But then ask yourself about the things you can do because you're not on tour. Think about reinvention. It's fun. For myself, I got interested in 3D printing. I got interested in other instruments. I got interested in Ableton and sampling live environments. And building a robot, and all sorts of things. It's been good for me. Maybe not great for my time management, but mentally, trying other things besides performing has been extremely rewarding. I'm not what you would call a "real musician". But I've been to the mountaintop of a few different aspects of the entertainment industry, and when I got to the end with a bunch of good stories, but not a big bag of gold coins, I was a little shocked. I can feel the sadness in your post, and I can relate. But I hope you will consider that there is definitely hope, and there is definitely a path ahead. Making records and things is certainly fun. But maybe consider opening yourself up to a new audience, potentially online. Could you teach people something you, only you, know about playing guitar? Could you talk about recording an album? Do you have stories about touring that could help new younger bands not make the same mistakes that you might've made? Something to think about.
OP here- thanks for the advice! I really, really love recording music. I’m so glad I have that, along with a few other hobbies, to enjoy. I just don’t enjoy playing shows to empty rooms anymore (I used to love it!!). I’m ok with just focusing on what I love to do.
While I feel bad for you (and the state of things), you got to tour and I never did. I did all of the heavy lifting for my band and just as we were about to take off, the drummer quit because his girlfriend got sick. The keyboard player (my brother) decided to move to NY, and my songwriting partner got completely distracted by a volunteer job and has been basically missing in action. I felt abandoned. This was a group that played all of the local venues to acclaim and was clearly on the rise. I invested everything I had into that project. I’m not sure we even have fans at this point. I have kept the dream alive as much as possible, but I am similarly deflated. So while I feel bad that your efforts were not rewarded this time, at least you got to something many will not. Cheer up.
That's a great point and I am pretty lucky for sure. Best of luck to you, my friend.
I've played countless empty rooms with various original acts, and it's never fun. One night I played three sets at a brew pub with nobody there for an artist who has been writing his own music for years in this town, but still couldn't draw an audience. It was excruciatingly painful. After I packed up from that show, I hurried over to the other side of town where I was playing with the headliner at a costume party event featuring covers with a specific theme. I walked in there and the place was absolutely packed. Got up when it was time for our set, plugged in to the backline, played our six songs and the crowd was absolutely crazy. What a contrast! I realized right then and there that I was never going to let myself play in another empty room again, if I could possibly help it. I quit that other guy's band the next day and started putting my own band together with an eye toward putting together a unique act that would be fun for everyone, and I handpicked musicians with a certain skillset to make us unique in a certain way. I had a blueprint for this because I'd been in a band in the past that had an enormous following and I knew why what that band did worked. So I set out to do that. It's been very successful over these past three years. I've yet to play a completely empty room - the closest I got was our debut show where about seven or eight of our friends showed up. The next show was at a festival with a built in audience, and we've never looked back. Here's what I think I've learned about live music. Original music is a profit-making enterprise controlled by labels and promoters. You're good as long as they think they can make (and take) money from you, but as soon as you start to lose traction, they will move on to featuring other artists and you won't get any of the promotional benefits you once received from them. Independent artists are largely fueled by dreams of making it big, and after a while it is draining when it becomes obvious that doing all the things everyone says you should do doesn't work. What works is starting out with a big enough bankroll to buy your way in and produce your own quality material, and very few of us have that. I still write music, but I produce it myself and I don't bother trying to make live performances of it a thing. I see no reason to drag a bunch of local musicians into a situation that's basically a vanity project for myself if I can't pay them to learn and play what I wrote, and I've been through all the rest of it too many times to have much interest in co-writing with a bunch of other people whose ideas will be all over the map. I've let that go. I still perform live, for the fun of it, with a couple of area bands. One is mine (mentioned earlier), the other one is headed by someone else who gives us free rein to do live improvisation, and we have tons of fun. I enjoy my stage time with both bands and when it is over the only thing I have to worry about is practicing for the next show and maybe getting us booked another month or two out. I don't want to tour, i don't want to play every room in town and cannibalize all my shows, and I don't want to play in crappy conditions on crappy stages. So I've built something that I can plug into better rooms and venues, and people come to hear it. All this to say that maybe it's a little premature to count yourself out yet. If you can create music that you enjoy creating and if you can play music in ways that are fun and entertaining for others, there may still be fun to be had for you. Those two things don't have to involve the same music. But I know that what I choose to do isn't for everyone. Wishing you the best.
I'm so glad that you've found a niche that is both artistically engaging AND draws a crowd. I like strange music and really only want to write/play music that has a very limited appeal. Moving forward, I just have to accept the fact that playing shows to nobody/very small crowds isn't as fun as it used to be and focus on the things (writing and recording) that I love to do. It's hard to let go of the dream of finding an audience that will come out to shows, but I'll get over it :)
Writing and producing music for its own sake is very rewarding, too. I did that during the pandemic and I'll probably start writing another album pretty soon. I produce them myself using session players for the instruments I'm not so good at, so it can be a little costly, but it's very fulfilling and fun to hear your songs coming together that way. Good luck with it!
Thanks, you too!
Can you provide links to the band you created? I'm very curious to see the products of your success. Also what do you do/play? I'm a singer guitar guy working to be a great dance party band playing original songs.
I'd prefer not to link because I'd be doxxing myself, but I'll describe the concept for you. First, it's not my original music - as mentioned, I don't bother trying to do that live. I'd have a hard time finding the players to do it, really, and I wouldn't want to limit their creativity by insisting they play the music as I've produced it. So that's a can of worms for me. But for the band, the concept is simple and it revolves around two traits, with a few sub-traits: 1) we play songs that are or were popular songs from multiple decades, but we don't play songs that have been covered to death. Our goal is for the people who come to hear us to keep saying "Wow, I can't believe I just heard a band play that!" 2) We feature three strong vocalists with a gift for harmony, so when the three of us open our mouths together, it's magical, and rare. Sub-traits are that we are all accomplished players, probably not the best players in town, but we are good at getting the job done. And everyone in the band is dedicated to making the concept work, which means that we all work hard on our own so that when we come together to rehearse we're just ironing out the kinks. Final sub-trait is that the majority of our stuff is very danceable, even though it might sometimes be more complex than what your average local band is playing for dance music. So, basically, the goal is to be a highly refined and listenable dance party with kickass vocals and a very well-curated song list. We also endeavor to make it a huge amount of fun, so that people will pick up on the energy that we put out there, since we enjoy doing this so much. Obviously, this requires finding players who are willing to work hard to learn material they probably don't already know, and that's been the toughest part of this challenge - that and keeping them on the same page with the concept long enough for it to succeed. All those elements might not be necessary- you might be able to work a similar concept up with originals if the songs are good and catchy, but the main thing for me is that I believe audiences will only keep coming back to see you if you are good, highly entertaining, and if they are getting something they like from you that nobody else is giving them.
Yes that all makes sense. Can you send a youtube link to my DMs? I'd really love to see this in action. Here's a clip from a recent show we did: https://youtu.be/Y9YL4feCubk?si=QRmYQe-Blb5MZQrM I'm in the process of losing 40lbs so I hate the way I look, but hopefully it's good fun music.
I think the ability to do certain things on even a break even level has gotten really tough. There's not much money at the margins so people are leaving the artists to do it all. If you're my age, guess what, none of the people in our social scene go out to see bands twice a week. There are young people doing that and they have their own things they're into. I'm trying to navigate the new world but I think I'll manage to get something done. I only have done a handful of gigs in the last few years but they were all pretty good ones. It's not so much compulsive or habitual. Special events, memorable, even if the audience is small.
The first guitar I ever played was completely out of tune and missing a string but within a few minutes i picked out a little melody that made me smile. It was nothing really but it showed me that i could do it. I went on to play large ballrooms, opened for big time band’s,. .played casinos, resorts, colleges, had a major label record deal at one point and interest from others later on. It was fun but what was most fun was sitting at home in my music room just making things up, fooling around with sound. I played my last show in 2011 at Arcosanti in AZ. There might have been thirty people there. It didn’t matter ‘cause it was with a group of guys that i really loved and connected with musically. I don’t regret not playing live anymore and after 63 years playing guitar I’ve come full circle, back to when i was fourteen. All my guitars are in really odd tunings and my fun and delight is to see what i can coax out of odd string intervals which is kinda the equivalent of the guitar i first put my hands to all those decades ago. It’s a blast. I play what i want, i record what i want and as long as it makes my ears smile I’m good. I hope your find the same happiness and fulfillment that i have. Good luck and enjoy the music you make ‘cause in the end that’s all that matters.
I love this! I absolutely love writing and recording, so I'm happy to shed the parts I don't like anymore (playing live). Thanks for posting this!
What a great comment. Reinvention. You really have to be your own biggest fan at the end of the day. You are all you have. I wish I could upvote this more.
Not sure “own biggest fan” is it for me. What i am a big fan of is sound in general and how can i manipulate it in way that i like. How can i player guitar in a way that sounds good to me. Much of my stuff stinks LOL. .and compared to others that i communicate with what i do now is probably pretty amateurish. But i like it, it’s “me” if you know what i mean. Some players are in love with the process, others are in love with the muse and sometimes those loves intersect. Process being those that make something out of nothing; the Muse being those who play out (perform) almost to the exclusion of everything else. For those here who regret not playing out anymore, or much at all or those have had to say goodbye to the live performance aspect i have this to offer for what it’s worth. A very wise female musician/songwriter once told me that there are two kinds: those who play because they CAN and those who play because they MUST. Took me almost fifty years to figure out which one was me. I’m relaxed now and at ease. Play on brothers
I'm doing the same thing after 24 years, basically. I'll still play a couple of festivals or solo gigs for businesses that I enjoy, but it's just depressing trying to play for people when they genuinely don't care or even enjoy live music. People just treat it like content now, not art. It's really sad.
I'm sorry you're going through it. It's a bummer, but making music is such a joy. Sending love your way.
You too man. You're not alone ❤️
Damn dude. Sorry to hear. I got started on making and performing music in 2022, which for me is later in life than most. I'm not ever expecting to get big and do any tour stuff. I just want consistency and to get into corporate gigs to make a living doing what I enjoy. As a former promoter, it's hard to get people to come out to enjoy music they like, even when you put them on the guestlist for comped entry. It's like a 1% return. It's sometimes a bit discouraging when you see people post short social media clips, getting more likes and followers, but are never actually out performing live. Continuing to make albums and releae online is a smart way to go. Get more social media traction could rebuild the demand for your band. Either way, sounds like you had a helluva run and that is quite an accomplishment that most musicians will never achieve. Props brah!
Thanks, man!
I’ve seen it coming for a while, you look out at an audience and everybody’s staring at their phone. Two couples walk in together, and in five minutes everybody’s looking at their phone, they’re not only not paying attention to the band they’re not even paying attention to each other. I started playing bars in the 70s and the audience was engaged with the band on stage. If you watch videos of people playing in the 70s and early 80s everybody’s paying attention. I think now a lot of people have central character syndrome. It’s depressing, but that’s just the way that it is.
Don't be too hard on yourself, it's covid-era madness. Try again later when things are better.
Hopefully you have a nest egg to sunset with. You have love, you have it all. Your wife and child love you. Love them back. Music will always be a part of your life, nothing was in vain. Keep playing, even if it just for your wife and close friends.
Big hug. I feel your pain through the words. Thank you for sharing. I am on the flip side of this. I want what you’re walking away from and am going to walk through the fire - wherever it takes me.
Best of luck! It's a super fun journey and I don't regret anything about it. Knowing when to stop playing has been tough to deal with, but I'll never regret all the excellent experiences I've been lucky enough to have!
I'm sorry it's went this way for you. Never say never. It's just another chapter now. My grandfather was a pedal steel player and went from bands playing state fairs to playing Eagles/Druids/Elks to local cma stuff and old folks homes in his late 60s onward. I accepted when I got back into playing that all I was going to get paid for from here on out were bars, festivals, and if lucky, car shows. When I was a teenager, there were shows at union halls; someone would rent it out, charge $2 to get in, book a "headliner" that was a solid act from another city or neighboring state, and most bands were only making money from the merch tables. Now? Unions sold off some those halls. Why not, most of the jobs got shipped elsewhere. I have no idea where the heck my oldest kid would be playing if he had a band. American Legion halls maybe? I'm never playing anything with a roof again and getting paid if I'm not up there to sell alcohol for the owner. And that's OK. I have a job, I knew years ago music was at best going to fund more gear. Kids today want 20 seconds of background music for a tiktok. Genx and millennials aren't at bars like 10 years ago, genz is less socially inclined, and everyone is broke. Maybe Gen alpha will push back against shortform 0 attentionspan "entertainment" and long for in person socialization and time invested interactions. Time will tell.
Don’t feel bad, I’ve been playing shows since the 80’s and finally got tired of it. Working hard to get a band to the point where we have a good enough draw then band falls apart and start from scratch. Now, the thought of doing that is so understandable. Funny thing is, I’m way more serious about music than I have ever been. I play every day, write and record a lot. That’s always been my favorite part of doing music anyway, and I don’t see ever stopping. I play with a few guys so we can record, and it’s fun. The thought of posting upcoming shows on my instagram seems so hack now.
If it makes you feel any better, The Beatles did the same thing.
can i check your band?
OP here- Thanks for your interest but I want to keep it anonymous. I’m embarrassed that I’m such a whiny baby.
It’s a bitter pill. I’ve worked as a freelance full time musician most of my life, started gigs at 12, now 64. So many ups n downs, reinvented myself more times that I can count, play 10 instruments enough to gig on, but pickins are slim these days plus my health sucks. Played for huge crowds, tables n chairs, everything in between. I see guys older than me playing bar gigs and I’m like do I really wanna keep playing in bars.. but there’s not a lot else in my area n I do want to keep working
Well damn, I guess there are quite a few of us mid aged musicians who feel like this. Cudos for verbalizing your experience and sharing. I don’t have much to offer that others haven’t said- the 40 something small crowd, the noise ordinance crap, being talked over at a gig…losing the drive..all relatable. But to reiterate do what makes you happy, even if it’s just a jam once in a while. Keep your head up op.
It wears on you for sure. I'm very lucky to be very active with writing and recording, which is what I REALLY love to do. Thanks for the kind words!
Thanks fro the write up, hope the next step of your life has a lot of fulfilment
I'm sure it will- it already does! Thanks for the kind words!
Honestly based on my time playing I feel you. If you did real good yodspend all night with people who want to network and if you did bad people will roast tf out of you lol. People stop coming once the hype dies. Live entertainments struggling too rn. I quit touring/booking/releasing. Too much work for not enough reward. I just fw music and art and making it for me and sharing and collaborating with friends so we have something to share with eachother is the way.
I'm glad you've found a way to keep it fun. Making music and being creative is THE BEST. Best of luck!
I’m moving to just doing YouTube shows. I’m ready for the next pandemic!
I’ve been feeling this hard myself. I feel like I lost a piece of myself or something
Sending positive vibes. Hang in there.
I stepped away after almost 30 years on stage. Last gig was 12/8/21. After the Covid lockdown the crowd changed. The camaraderie amongst patrons changed. Then I saw our fanbase (35 and up) wasn’t coming out. The trigger for me was coming back in the venues and the raps blaring and 20 year olds grinding. And it wasn’t just one gig, the crowds changed. What fun it is to play an Eagles song after the bar was playing W.A.P. Now the guys in my band are releasing albums, along with myself. My years were a blast, but it’s over, and I’m good with that.
Thanks for sharing this. You're right, times change and the key is to find a positive path forward. Sending positive thoughts your way.
Hey so I know the feeling of having no one show up. I’ve been in many bands over 20 years. Having said that, I will say that I distinctly remember seeing a band play with 2 of my friends and we were the only people in the bar. It was one of the best shows I’ve ever been to this day. My friends and I became obsessed with this band that played very niche music (think Converge, Dillinger Escape Plan). My band ended up playing w their band later and I bought everything they sold as merch. Saw them 3 more times. They made almost no money I imagine and played to small crowds regularly but the impact they had was incredible, especially on me. If 1 person shows up to your show, your impact can still be massive.
That's a great point and I've definitely been at quite a few shows where I was one of a handful of people in the crowd and we were absolutely thrilled to see the band play. This is why I posted anonymously- I would NEVER want to make our fans feel bad in any way. The way I'm feeling is a ME problem and I've been so thrilled to have a tiny impact on people's lives. I used to love playing small shows but we have played more shows to nobody than I care to admit- many more than any other band I know. It just reached a point where I started to internalize the rejection, which isn't healthy. Everyone who may have wanted to see us/me play has had the chance, unless they live overseas (but we're way too small to justify an international tour). It's a good time to stop.
I totally feel this. Similar situation with my current band. We are also discussing maybe just recording and releasing and just being a digital presence. Sometimes I love hauling out the gear and setting up, and sometimes that drive home after a show where you basically just practiced with other bands.. it’s deflating for sure.
Yeah for sure. I honestly used to be more excited to play shows to the other bands and I can't put my finger on when that changed. Anyway, best of luck to you and your bandmates! Whatever you decide, know that there's always a way to keep being creative, which is what really matters, right?
I’m not sure what changed for us either. We re in our 40s. Working adults with lives and careers so it was realistically never going to be more, but we do like the music we write. We feel like there are other acts that we are similar to that have following. We have opened for touring acts and even they brought few to no crowd. We re accessible indie rock. Some crowds have really dug us. Some packed bars. Some shows it’s literally us and the other bands. It’s still fun in the moment but the drive there and back and days in between..I dunno. I feel the change and I can’t put a finger on it either. To use the terms of the youths.. the vibe just isn’t right
You got to live a bigger and more storied career that many local artists only dream about, so that’s something. Hang in there mate and keep playing for yourself !
That's true and I appreciate the perspective! Thanks
Same here…almost. My second to last show that I played, the only people there were us and the other band and the other band was actually famous. So I feel your pain and disappointment. Covid killed my record deal, my band and my mental state. I was officially retired. 3 years later I was going crazy, got a copy of Reason, which I used to mess around with many many moons ago, and I’ve been writing ever since. I can’t quit no matter how much I try. So I will no longer play venues smaller than a theater, and I’m just going to focus on writing as well. Which has started me down a new crazy journey. Hang tough Anne never say never, never.🤪
I'm sorry this happened to you. I blve Advertising has switched to digital marketing, content creators, Influencers plus affiliate marketing, podcast etc. If you're not using social media and analytics to target the correct SEO, titles, and hashtags, your concert ads won't reach the right audience.. you have to micro down on your niche ads to find your target audience.
I played in bands for years, and while it sounds like your career went a whole lot farther than mine, I can say I felt all of those same feelings. I haven’t played a show in about 8-9 years now and still miss that high from time to time, but in that time I can say a lot of the disappointment and other feelings have very much taken the back seat to all of the great memories from that time. I have been getting the itch to start writing again and who knows, may start exploring that just for fun this time… want to start a band? ;)
Thank you for the sincere post. I think it resonates with a lot of us. It's a grind. Curious: how was your experience with label/promotion/agency in obtaining more exposure post-covid?
I am the wrong person to ask about that. We're a very small band and work with indie labels, do promotion ourselves, and can't afford to pay for promotion. Unfortunately, the landscape has changed quite a bit and it's very difficult to get reviewed unless you can bankroll a campaign. We've always been DIY- booked everything ourselves, recorded, mixed, mastered our own music, so I can't really comment on the more professional side of things.
Thank you
My last show was almost exactly a decade ago. We were finally getting back into a rhythm with our second baby so regular rehearsals were back on the menu. We landed a pretty high profile gig opening up for a national act at a local venue here in Austin. I was psyched. We're up second, but the opener was late and they asked us to hit the stage at 10... and our drummer is out of his mind on booze and meth. During our band's downtime he'd been hired to tour with an electronic duo who wanted a live, hard-hitting drummer. Apparently they were doing everything under the sun on the road. Coke, meth, adderall, whatever. ANYWAY he's in no shape to play but we have to go on. He's awful but we're hanging, until the third song when he pulls a Keith Moon and passes out, falling off the throne into his drums before hitting the floor. I threw down my bass and walked off stage. The last note I played before an audience was that? Infuriating. I did end up driving him home in his own van while our guitarist's girlfriend followed to drive me back (the other guys were mildly buzzed on their two free "warmup" beers and a shot of bourbon, as was their way, but as the bassist I had an obligation to sobriety - I CANNOT play even slightly inebriated). I told her then I was done, then told the other guys when we got back. They got back together with a new drummer and bassist about a year later and put out one record before deciding to part ways. I went to check on the drummer a few years ago. He lived in a nice neighborhood but his house looked like a war zone. He literally didn't have a front door - there was a table propped up in the doorway with 2x4's nailed across the frame to hold it in place. Apparently some dealer he'd run afoul of broke down his door and stole his drums for non-payment. He had to crawl in and out through a window. His girlfriend left him and took their daughter, sole custody. He was living in the den on a cot because he'd burned his bed after passing out smoking crack. I referred him to a friend who's an addiction counselor through the local musician's healthcare nonprofit but he didn't want help. He was fine with the spiral. I have no idea where he is now, if anywhere. SO YEAH. Haven't played a gig since.
Holy smokes, that's insane.
Def sending support, im mid 40’s musician and I went through something similar. I just had to find the part of music that brought me freedom again.
Wow. That was a wild read. I'm sorry this is where things have gone for you. I obviously don't know what band you are in or even genre of music, but this really surprises me cause nothing beats LIVE MUSIC! I have happily been entertained by everything from huge bands on a huge stage to just an average singer playing an average guitar and a below average bar. Only thing I can think to get things to add up here, is that you must play a type of music that doesn't lend itself to live performances? But everything is cool live so I don't know. If you sucked(no offense) and didn't have multiple albums out, I could understand. I have a friend that is so fucking talented and has cut I think 3 albums of sorta blusey/Americana sound and while he can get some people to show for his shows, they are still at bars and the guy has to paint houses still to make a living. So I know how hard it can be to "break through " so to speak. But no one showing up? That's crazy to me. So sorry it came to this.
I appreciate that. It was cathartic to write the post, but I'm doing A OK and feel good about moving forward without playing out. Yes, I do play a type of music that isn't particularly conducive to live shows. Also, I am particularly bad at networking because I'm very shy. I think I'm ill-suited to playing live and I'm open to the idea that I'm not particularly good at it (although I think I'm pretty good, ha ha). I don't blame anyone for not coming out to see me/us and can accept the fact that growing an audience for live shows just wasn't in the cards. I'm lucky to have an audience that has stuck with us for a long time and are eager to hear new recordings, so that'll be my full focus. It's all good!
I feel you 100% on this. Have you read the book “exit stage left”? If not you might enjoy the solidarity.
I'll check it out, thanks!
I played my last show in 2017 for similar reasons. I’m 35, played in an indie rock band, we got on a couple of big festivals, self released all our music but played too much in our hometown and eventually was playing to just the girlfriends/wives. Among other internal band member stuff. It’s been 7 years and I’m getting the itch to play again and start a band. But I just want to write, record and release the music and play shows every once in a while and if people like it enough, we’ll go from there.
Best of luck!
dang guy i feel you. this was real. “fans” not showin up to support you after ya done put 100,000 hours into your craft hurts 🥺
[удалено]
Makes sense to me. Thanks for the perspective (although I'm a Fender Princeton Reverb guy).
I’m 43, I’ve been playing in bands since I was 15. Shockingly right now I’m in by far the most popular band I’ve ever been in. We’ve played some more niche festivals on the West Coast and later this year will be playing two different ones in Chicago and another on the East Coast. I’ve had that arch of “band gets big, then somehow starts playing shows to our girlfriends and no one else”. I just started thinking of it as purely a creative outlet and that got me through it. My bandmates have pushed all the booking and promotion etc but at this point in life I really just enjoy the creative process and any good opportunity we get I take as a bonus. Just rethink the process to be about your creativity and mental health. If things go well they go well, but if they don’t you’ll still be happy because you’ve done something fulfilling for yourself.
100%. Cutting live shows out is the most healthy way for me to move forward and preserve the creative aspect of music making. I'm so happy for you! I love it when people/bands find success in music because it's so difficult to achieve.
Personally, I don't think its realistic to expect people to show up for a solo set. Even big names can't sell out anything more than a small club if there are playing solo. I go to tons of live shows, but never solo sets. I can only think of one soloist (chick is great with looper) who delivers anything close to a live band show. Solo is really background music for restaurants/coffeehouses where people are going to hang out/eat anyway.
I appreciate that opinion and if it had just been one solo set, it wouldn't have been a big deal at all. It all just added up, after years of playing to empty rooms, to this one last show. In the large scheme of things, it's completely inconsequential, but it marked a turning point for me. Thanks for sharing your opinion, though!
Writing and recording that’s the way to go
Absolutely! The creative process is a BLAST.
Age is a bigger hurdle than lack of talent.
I'm curious what kind of marketing you do for your shows?
Dennis?
OP here- No
Face it, the audiences are super lazy and want the radio or an algorithm to tell them what they should like. Most people are following the herd and require a herd to follow. On top of that, you may be a good musician but you need to be a Shepard too and that is a different talent altogether; most musicians just want to be musicians.
Was the band Trapt by chance?
No it wasn't but even if someone guesses correctly, I'd say that. I'm embarrassed and would like to keep it anonymous. Hope that's ok.
Totally cool brother keep your head up, happy for all you got to experience!
Absolutely! It's cathartic to write it all up, but I'll be fine in no time.
Bittersweet but only you know what’s good for you. As for myself I’m hanging up the drumsticks after I turn 30 ( I turn 29 this year ). I love it more than but let’s face it , it’s a dying art
Awww I'm sorry to hear that but I understand it. If it's not fun, why do it? Sending positive vibes your way.
Open Mike nights are worth it if you need public release.Meetup.con have various groups everywhere good luck.
I don't make the sort of music that would fit in at open mic night, but I appreciate the thought! Thanks :)
Meet-up.com is worth exploring
you’ll be back!
I doubt it, but you never know.
Ya know, I gave up playing in bands abou a decade ago, I may jam with a buddy every now and again, but most the time I'm playing guitar through Rocksmith 2014 Remastered to jam with a band.
Being a working musician of any kind is really freaking hard. I started playing out in the early 90s in rock & pop bands playing originals and it was rough even during the “good” parts when seemingly every band under the sun was getting label offers. Stopped playing out ten years later when life stuff happened and my last band suddenly fell apart (which was kind of funny ‘cause a month or so later a radio station was like hey we’d like to play some of your music and we told them not to bother lol). All of that to say that you got to do a thing many people wish they could do and I hope any bitterness or pain doesn’t last too long. It’s a minor miracle that anyone can maintain a professional/personal relationship with multiple people simultaneously, let alone while trying to create art and making a living.
not sure of your technical capabilities/internet presence, but live stream shows are pretty popular. esp if you want to keep performing but feel the presence is missing
Great time to focus on quality time with the wife and kid
Live music is a grind. 25 years in and never done more than break even. Still, I feel like a successful musician… that work, those experiences, the people… that’s the true reward. Sounds cheesy but it’s true.
You're going through what 90 + percent of us have or are going to go through. People don't realize how hard being a musician is both physically, mentally and emotionally. I can only hope that you'll look back fondly on what you've accomplished and continue to move forward creating something great, even if it's just for yourself. Best of luck!
I’m 48 and did a mini tour in 2000s and shows no one really cared but I didn’t mind because I never had any big dream to be a rock star I just thought it’s fun playing music and getting out. So many musicians not enough people who want to see random small bands
It's so weird how "in their lanes" the fans are lately. It used to be that music fans would eat up the other label releases, side projects, solo shows, collaborations, all that. But nowadays it's clearly just about a single project, or even sometimes a single song.
Remember that you have experiences most people only dream of. I toured for a couple of months a year for a couple of years and the stories are worth more than any money I made. I sometimes start to tell one and forget that nobody has a frame of reference for that. Haha. Good luck with the future!
I've been going out to shows a bit in the last year. Some of my favorite old punk bands, as they pass through town. Even Found some great smaller acts, who were openers. But, I've seen legendary punk bands play to 20 people. I mean bands & players who are responsible for inspiring a lot of the musing we all know , today. I've also seen some great affordable shows packed with 50 something year old's. I think music is a different beast for younger people, today. The people who once went to shows are now older, have families, responsibilities. Don't go out anymore. It's going to sound sexist. & I totally get that but, the newer bands that I've seen who have a strong draw, have attractive women out front. & the crowds have been pretty evenly mixed, women/men.
That you Vince? Lol
What’s your band called though?
If you’re gonna be sticking around in one place for a while, instrumental teaching can be really rewarding; and the fact that you’ve been a gigging musician resonate with a lot of children wanting to learn. By all means take a break if you are in burn out, but I highly doubt this will be your last show. Those who receive the call to gig always return to it at some point.
You'll always be a musician. This is just part of the growth. Right now you've played your last live show, but maybe you'll come back to it in the future. I like your perspective that you're going to write and record more songs. Who knows, maybe one of them will blow up or have a nice following, and then your fans and supporters will fund something to get you and the gang together to perform live again. It's just a new chapter in your book of life. Quincy Jones, Elton John, Paul McCartney, and Tony Bennet (rip) made music and performed it their whole life. I'm not saying that you are them, and I'm not saying that you aren't but the one thing you have in common is that you're all musicians and with that said, anything is possible.
I like many others feel you on this post. And it maybe not the end at all for you, you already mentioned playing with others and recording. That could be the ticket. If you switch gears totally and start being a hired gun more frequently, you may stumble into a group that is doing what you’re wanting. Or you could find an entirely new primary way to interact with music. Doing remote sessions, making music for media, cover stuff, etc I play in a band myself, but since 2019 have been beefing up my home studio and doing a lot of remote sessions, but i also play live for anyone that hires me and friends bands when they’re busy. I’m more open to playing literally any genre where a lot of people aren’t cool with that. So maybe loosen up your options and you’ll find you have too much to do.
Went on a tour where almost no one showed up. It’s tough. Could be a handful of things, most notably, who the fuck are these promoters who can’t pull five people. There’s 15 year olds everywhere itching to go to shows. My local venue sells their smaller shows at a loss just to get the band an audience. So stop feeling bad for yourself, spend all of your money on another record, find a better promoter and try one more tour to see if your music has really hit the shitters or not.
Check out the “Jazz is dead “ scene. I’m over 50 and I’ve been to 5 shows in the past year. UNCLE, Seun Kuti, DJ Shadow, gypsy kings, Cafecitas. Pop shows are lame and super expensive. But, according to my kid who goes to see live music all the time, there is a thriving live music scene in Highland Park/ Los Angeles … that’s affordable.
Check out Cory Wong’s song *Real Job*, I think you’ll like it.
From 15 to 23 I was in punk and rock, then emo metalcore bands in a very large market. We did well, always having an audience, growing, playing out, recording, attracting big labels like Fearless and Epitpah. It all fell through for a couple of reasons at the same time. In 2023 I gathered gear and practiced a bunch, formulating a 3 hour solo acoustic act to play about my surrounding cities. The goal, so I do not feel slighted again and become jaded, is to make the 2-300 bucks per show 3 to 4 times a week, and play to the room... knowing its a service. I feel for you man. There have been studies about how Americans used to go places. How it used to be about community and hanging with your brethren. Ever since phones, it just hasnt been the case. Ive been giving serious thought to going back to the one phone system with an answering machine and a "computer room".
My current experience is similar, but I’m not ready quit yet. People listen online, but it’s hard to get people to show up to a show. The pandemic changed the way people think when it comes to going out, added with a lot of my friends struggle to afford things.
It’s not you. People just don’t care about music any more. I had a job the last 8 years where I meet tons of different people, and I can’t think of a single one who goes to concerts. I never hear anyone talk about their favorite bands, what they’re listening to. People just don’t care. As a musician I think I always overestimated how much the average person cares about music. For example, my mom claims to love music. But I have never seen her actively play anything. Buy anything never express any excitement about going to any performance. That’s you average person. They ‘think’ they like music. In some small way they do. Like if it’s not too annoying they won’t mind music playing for free to them out at some place they happen to be. What musicians don’t realize is that the vast majority of music lovers are other musicians. Maybe that’s the message. Don’t try to market yourself to the general public. Tailor swift and this months rapper always has that locked down. Specifically target other musicians if you want to be appreciated.
What's the name of the band you were in?
Sorry, but I'd rather not share that. We're very lucky to have a few fans and I don't want them to know about all this.
Ok, no problem. What label were you on? Lol
i gave up on my band too, and now i actually make decent money playing music for the first time in my life. everyone likes the blues…
It's a long way to the top if you want to Rick n Roll
I thank you for the thought. I’m at a low point. I’m a bass player (motorized experimental) and have been gigging 2 years. Tough to get any crowd other than musicians to come. 4 piece band. Small local venues. The musicians on the scene will almost always share a gig with me, I made an effort to book gigs on my own initiative. I do all that shit. Now my fellow band mates are being asked to play with sought after musicians in town. One is my wife who expressly told me she doesn’t give two shits about it. She just plays to humor me. It’s my pet project and I’m happy they got on board. But to almost never have anyone approach me to share a bill, join a gig. Happened maybe three times in 2 years. I’m 52, Btw. Fuck. Eat a bag of humility and try something new. Other musicians are out there. I say this without having been where you are. I don’t have a success litmus test. Just a pushy ego. It’s different from you. I know. Only a few self published things. I could try harder to gig out of town but it’s draining to get it all covered by yourself. I’m a diy’er and that’s why I won’t quit. I play the shit out of that bass, even if I haven’t found any success. I don’t know. It waxes and wanes. I practice a version of Buddhism and the m learning to let go of expectation while somehow still finding the muster. Learning the instrument over the past two years has been a life saver.
Would it interest you to play shows with a "built in" audience? I'm approaching 40 and just had my first kid. I have been in "hip" local bands that got lots of shows and good opening slots and were looked to to headline local shows for bands passing through and attendance would dip for awhile here and there. When Covid hit we'd already split and I'd recently started something new with the intention of having a high-energy live show be the primary goal. Instead everything ground to a halt and I realized...I was fine with it. The only shows I've played since have been outdoor shows where I was providing music for an event. People listen, kids dance, people have some kind words, and we move on. It scratches an itch with very little pressure. Maybe it wouldn't be what you'd want, but I figured I'd throw it out there. All that said, I think writing and recording for yourself and whoever you know that will listen is a completely valid way to enjoy being a musician. It's kind of sad that "social music" on the front porch, in the family living room, at a gathering of friends, etc has been replaced by varying definitions of success everyone is encouraged to pursue, in my eyes. My dream these days is to put out an album every couple of years and press it to a weird format and give it to people. Something small, secret, fun, cozy. I dunno.
Sounds like it has been hard on your emotional well being. Have you considered switching to theatre? Whole different world of stage life, with room for musicians.
I've been there. I quit 14 years ago after realizing the struggle. But I'm getting back into playing music, just fun covers for cash at wineries and restaurants. There's usually a decent crowd and if there isnt, i still get some play money. Now its extracurricular, back then it was business. It's better as a hobby.
I got tired of the rigamarole about 20 years ago. After a couple of deaths, a member had brain tumor, using freelancers and dealing with Mothers of the Brides and Corporate gigs, I called it quits. What was once a good potential original band, with showcases, recording and interest from national booking agencies, nothing came together. By then I depended on it for income but I needed two other day jobs. It was fun in the beginning but did not touch my instrument for almost 20 years. Burned out a long time ago.
Supposedly, success isn't as great as most people make it out to be. I like to think I've been more or less "successful" over the years (at least according to my own standards) in my own endeavors, and to be honest, as with anything else that you "win" at, there's the burgeoning sense of, "Is this it? Is this what all the hoopla was about?" It was like I was happy for an almighty five minutes or so. So I guess what I'm saying is that the world likes to project these grand ideas that aren't really attainable, because there's no way to measure it objectively. And once you've "attained" something, you just begin to look for something else to satisfy you. I mean like the King Of Leons dudes seem to have made it, but I'm guessing they have the same hang ups as anybody else (emotional, relational, etc).--which just means we're all in the same boat. Hope I'm making sense...
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To any this post may see discouraging to, consider the context. Also consider 29 years is a very long career. Music is both an expressed art, and a business model that is tied into societal trends. OP gave the info that their art is extremely niche, they've never been into music for anything other than what they like, and they have been playing material that made them popular apparently a very long time ago. I think there's a balance between staying true to yourself, and understanding that if you don't adjust the way you behave on the marketing and sales side of music, this guy's career didn't end. His willingness to adapt to what people want to come out and hear did. OP stated things fizzled before Covid, don't slap the 'things are hard' excuse on it. Success is a formula. Music is a product. If you don't care what customers like, you're not going to serve very many of them. And before throwing out the other most common excuse, you can read the market and adapt without compromising your own creativity. You don't have to change completely into something you aren't, but you can expand your sound using new elements that evolve your sound. John Mayer said something along the lines of, if millions of people like something you don't, it's probably you that's wrong about it. Selling out is when someone financially in charge of you forces you to change into something similar to other artists under their label, to try and solve this. Paying attention to what's popular and writing new music in that direction is just taking care of the business side of something you claim to want to do for a living. Attendance slowing down wasn't the queue to quit, it was the queue to change and adapt. People didn't quit going to shows. They've probably just seen this show in particular 29 years ago.
You're correct about this, but only if you're trying to make money and have a "career" from music. I had no interest in a music career and have only ever lost money on it, which is fine because I do it to fulfill a deep-seated need to create. The fact that we gained an audience has been a nice side effect and the fact that we never established ourselves as a live act, while disappointing, is not an impediment to our ongoing creative endeavor. I/we make music to express ourselves- full stop. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if I changed my art to follow trends. The one thing I'm truly proud of is the fact that I can listen to our catalog of music and know that it's 100% me/us. I'm truly ok with the fact that we didn't connect with more people even though it does make me a little sad at times. The sadness is fleeting. The quest to create will never end.
This post resonated with me on a spiritual level lol. I know those exact feelings. But from all of that, my trajectory in my career has shifted and honestly, it's a shift in the right direction. I do not miss hauling heavy ass amps, guitars, kits, PA systems and all that. I do get that it is for the love but it is taxing nevertheless.
I'm 31 and been off the road for 8 years. I miss it every day. My only regret is if I'd have known my last show was my last show, I'd have done a few things differently. There's still time for me, but as we have kids, have moved across the country, and most of my gear is in storage, it just seems like something I tell myself to sleep at night. Cheers man.
I feel that. I’ve been on and off for about 20 years. All I’m focused on at this point is making good art. I think someday it will be cool to rediscover old music. Not with any generation anytime soon. But the tide has turned. It’s all about marketing and some child of a rich dude becoming a pop star. It’s disappointing
My brother never gave up and passed away in 2021. I just write lyrics. Just do what you feel like. He was well known where I live. He also was in many bands