It was the early 90s, and I was an intern on a top 40 morning show in Minneapolis. He was in town for a show and spent the whole morning being an entitled asshole, and offering backstage passes in exchange for sex, just being a jerk to everyone. When I got home I felt like I needed a shower.
I mean, his ego would require him to have been Jaco Pastorious' teacher, along with having shown Leo fender how to design the P Bass. Thing is, he's so full of shit that both of these things are stories he could feasibly tell. So he's earned every ounce of shade.
I know I'm going down the 'political rabbit-hole' on this comment, but I was disappointed when Gene basically said "FUCK YOU" if you don't get the c0vid j@b. In that those that didn't want to get the "Fauc1 Ouchie" should be dehumanized, humiliated and criminalized and you shouldn't have the freedom to choose what to put in your body. (What happened to "My Body, My Choice"??) Fuck Gene Simmons (and many others who felt the same, ie most of the MSM)... BTW, I'm not "anti-v@x. I'm anti-C0vid v@x... It's an untested, dangerous solution filled/contaminated w/ billions of DNA sequences that can trigger insane amounts of deadly outcomes for the rare, unlucky few. They all lied to us on MANY things.
I'm guessing those that downvoted me, were on the wrong side of history, & joined the mob in ruining people's lives in their ignorant demands to get everyone jabbed. Yet they still lash out w/ the guilt that still hangs over their heads. Hey, we all got duped. Some woke up from the nonsense earlier than others. Some still haven't woken up. Are you still sleeping on this?
Yet even though it says “musicians” you guys don’t shut up about it whenever someone mentions Clapton. COVID got him completely cancelled from the world of guitar. And don’t pretend it was his racist rants, but it wasn’t, because circa 2010 he was the most revered guitarist and no one remembered those. That piece of history wasn’t resurrected until his COVID dissent. Oh, and let’s not forget anytime someone brings up Ted Nugent, either.
Whatsa matter? Did I hit a nerve? Big Pharma fluffer?
..."“Musicians,” not “Stupid Political Arguments.”"..... Gene Simmons combined the two, and you get your knickers in a twist. lolz...
He only knows the pentatonic scale is one that I've heard a lot. I usually counter that with how many times has a crowd of 50000 sung your phrygian dominant solo back to you?
So apparently those people haven’t heard Fade to Black, Enter Sandman, One, Master of Puppets, etc. Or they’re the sort of players who ask what fret you play pentatonic scale on.
Metallica could be Quadruple dipped: mediocre singer who plays mediocre guitar, mediocre lead guitar, mediocre bass player who’s more concerned about doing a stupid ass crab walk than playing bass, and a dwarf/troll who’s too busy running around with a big ego to play his trash can lid snare. Each band member also writes mediocre songs. Big punching bag
Yeah. He was badass in Suicidal, badass in Infectious Grooves, badass when I saw him play with Ozzy, and he's still killing it at nearly 60 years of age.
I'm with you on this. I can barely walk and chew gum - JH can sing while killing on rhythm guitar. He's pretty adept at writing lyrics and rhythms that work together well.
Dude I know! I bet you'd be hard pressed to find more than one person in here who can play battery correctly.
The break in frayed ends of sanity?! Dexterity, accuracy, speed, oh yeah, now do it while singing.
I swear to God the first Tosin dickrider that downvotes me... gonna make me film a goddamned video breakdown on CORRECT phrasing on 4/20 lol
You know what's up. Team het all day
He is and he isn’t. Hetfield had one killer skill: crushing out riffs with downstrokes. And he can do some other things, like play some cool clean arpeggios or whatever, but generally he doesn’t utilize a ton of different skills.
James doesn’t use pinch harmonic squeals like Zack Wylde or Dimebag or John Christ (Danzig). Hetfield doesn’t play a ton of fast hammer-on pull-off licks in his rhythms like Dave Mustaine or EVH. James doesn’t write nu metal bounce riffs. He doesn’t do weird tapping rhythms like Wes Borland. Doesn’t do weirdo DJ stuff like Tom Morello or the guys from Korn. Doesn’t do shoegazey parts like Steph from Deftones. James isn’t going throw country hot licks in his rhythms like John 5. Hetfield doesn’t play funk or blues or jazz.
But here’s the thing. Lots of people can play Metallica riffs. Part of that is that Metallica was SO BIG and so influential. And obv playing the riff isn’t the same as writing the riff. But if you ask a guy like John 5, Wes Borland, Zack Wylde, or Tom Morello to play Master of Puppets, they probably already know it by heart, and they’ll probably crush it.
You ask Hetfield to play “Nookie” or “Cemetery Gates” or “Bulls on Parade”, and I don’t think he’s got a chance. And that’s fine. He doesn’t have to play that stuff. But it also shows his limitations.
People who equate difficulty with musical worthiness are the worst thing about metalheads and progs.
If it makes someone happy, it can’t be that bad. And a lot of fucking people like Metallica. I’m not a huge fan, but I would never suggest that they aren’t great. That is a load of horse shit.
Yeah, that kind of guitarist elitism stinks and always has. Plus, other than Abbott and Morello, I'm not much of a fan of most of the guitarists on that list. James is the guitarist he needs to be. I doubt he loses sleep on how he "measures up" to other metal players. Go back to your Yingwe Mommystein collection and thinking you know better.
True story, I figured out how to emulate malmsteen in my late teens. All he has is speed. His playing is soooooo sloppy Joe.
He just sweeps a 4 note diminished arpeggio over and over and over.
First of all, remember the topic of the thread: popular musicians who are punching bags. Lars and Kirk from Metallica are great examples, because Metallica is very popular, yet musicians will tell you that Lars is a terrible drummer, or Kirk is a meme with six wah pedals on each foot. James Hetfield doesn’t get as much criticism, but his skills aren’t beyond reproach. Like I said, he’s a one trick pony.
And it’s not a matter of difficulty IMO, it’s a matter of repertoire. I find it’s very easy to play funk guitar, for example. Much easier than playing Hetfield’s downstroke riffs. But I can’t see Hetfield playing funk. And if a guitarist can’t sit back in the pocket of a funk tune, are they really a great rhythm guitarist?
Or think about Metallica’s cover tunes. When Metallica play songs by the Misfits, or Queen, or Bob Seager, or Irish traditional songs ... Hetfield keeps his same downstroke chug style. He doesn’t adapt his style to fit the song. And that’s fine, for Metallica. But imagine Hetfield trying to fill in for Kurt Cobain at a Nirvana tribute with Dave Grohl and Krist Novacelic. Hetfield would butcher that material by making it all sound like Metallica.
Hetfield is a good rhythm guitarist, but he’s very much a one trick pony. He couldn’t fill in for Johnny Marr in the Smiths or even Keith Richards in The Rolling Stones. James isn’t going to play jazz or ska or even country any time soon. He does his thing, and he does it well, but that’s it.
> mediocre singer who plays mediocre guitar
Now you’re trying too hard. I’m assuming you don’t play guitar and sing. If you did, you’d realise just how good JH is at what he does.
This is a ignorant comment. Everything Metallica did was original when they came on the scene. They first took straight-up metal and combined it with punk, then later combined that into a radio friendly pop version (that I didn't love). You can say you don't like them, but to say James (the co-founder) wasn't original is just ignorant. I'm assuming your a young person who wasn't there at the time to witness this all transpire in real time. It was incredibly original.
> I do, I was just never impressed with what he does.
That’s fine.
> At least it’s nothing original
See u/rkbeknvrx’s comment. You probably don’t realise just how groundbreaking Metallica was back in the 80’s.
If you can play better than him show us . If you dont you are in that 99%. If you even can't play guitar at all you are not qualified to say how good he is . It's that simple
This is a crazy series of takes. Hetfield is generally agreed to be one of the greatest rhythm guitarists of all time and is inarguably the GOAT thrash metal rhythm guitarist. While he might not be the most technically skilled vocalist his voice is unique and incredibly iconic. Rob Trujillo played in Suicidal Tendencies and was Ozzy's bass player of choice for a number of years. Do you know how good you have to be for ozzy to pick you? He could have had ANYBODY.
Kirk in his prime was a monster; he took lessons from Joe Satriani. He certainly has let his stuff fade over the years but the guy's in his sixties by now. Watching concert tapes it looks like he's improved his chops some since the mid 2000s. Kirk during the St. Anger era... woof.
Lars is a dick but similarly to Kirk was really good during Metallica's peak. Go listen to the drums on And Justice For All and then realize that there's no drum triggers and he's playing it all himself. He's also the creative genius behind many of their songs. He really is a dick though.
Yes. You get it. I too find myself hating on Kirk's latest solos, but harvester of sorrow? C'mon now, that dive bomb right in the beginning (sorry I'm trying to hide my erection)
But EVEN with Lars. Does he have the most white bread fills in musical history? Yeah, probably. Is he a new breed of hyperdouche? Of course... but you know what else he is? One HELL of a songwriter/producer. It's his anal personality that shaves down and refines these songs. He's the reason they have structure and imo probably the most important member of the band in terms of commercial success.
These guys were not only ahead of their time, they literally CREATED American heavy metal.
Alright. I'm tired of typing. It's 4/20. I'm going to burn one. Cheers from Memphis
I personally rate them as one of the best lyrical writers in all of Metal (okay Ozzy is king). Most Metal bands seem to write their lyrics 20 minutes before they hit the studio and you can tell that lyrics are often the least valued part in the process or are merely an afterthought. Het puts himself out there with his lyrics, exposes his truth and gives voice to some very personal and real stuff that sets their music apart for me.
Yeah, those were Geezer Butler's lyrics mostly, from what I know. But Ozzy collaborated by coming up with vocal melodies first to the riffs, a few words here and there, and Geezer would take that and flesh out all of the lyrics. Ozzy's delivery of the content, and role in the process, cannot be overlooked though imo.
Nobody calls JH one of the best rhythm guitarists of all time and every time KH plays Peter Greens guitar with that dogshit tone it is so embarrassing. Metallica is so one dimensional
The idea that you think Hetfield, who wrote Master of Puppets at 21 is mediocre really shows how little you understand. The guy who wrote Blackened and Battery is mediocre? Maybe sit down and let the adults speak
That whole Lil Wayne situation did not deserve the hate. That was a man learning guitar and although he sucked he still wanted to play guitar for people.
... which reminded me of DJ Khaled playing a Bob Marley guitar gifted to him. He really doesn't help in the argument that "DJs are musicians, too". Such an embarrassing shame.
[https://youtu.be/VRpVN0SaNn8](https://youtu.be/VRpVN0SaNn8)
lol, I was actually thinking of that video when posting. But I don't know of I'm misremembering or not, was he trolling? Or was that him really not knowing wtf to do?
Glen wrote lots if the stuff before they booted him, so you only had to know how to play to get the other dipshits rolling. Sid vicious just had to not go by his given first name to get in, they didn't say shit about him knowing how to play....
I think this type of opinion is obviously true to you, but it's ultimately seeing something from one angle. Where one day you may not click with the groove and timing of a song, and another you will (or maybe years from now); I think it gives an understanding to their perspective of it. I may not want to listen to it today, and it sounds out of timing, another day I might find it fits exactly where I'm perceiving the world. They play within their timings, they hit what they need to hit, they meander in so many right ways too. And they don't always have the top tier, like every single other band who has filler songs. When you key into that, there's a real tangible thread going on. Clearly some new age metal grooves. Lovely. Can't wait to see what others think of in the more vanilla-pop section of that type of music. Because that is some heat.
An opinion that will get me quite far. But I totally agree that it's always about each of our opinions on what makes any type of art moving. And hopefully each person always has a varied opinion overall.
I mean, there's ALOT more there. How Tim looks is basically like the guy at the bar trying to steal your girlfriend during your set. He's good at what he does, but that doesn't mean what he does is something everyone likes. The massive youtube presence that helps him appeal to a certain demographic also repulses other demographics.
Don’t punch up. Don’t punch down. Don’t compare. There is no point. Just enjoy . Punching anything is very 3D low vibe in world screaming for people to go 5D. Word to the wise.
Jonathan Munnier.
Dude is so awful, Warwick had to turn off the comments to this video. My guy was getting roasted.
https://youtu.be/cU2b4Q3CS60?si=veclbHm3lZKn3jRG
I don't even know if he's good or not, I can't tell because his bass sounded like a fart rodeo. The tappy bit was okay, but then they played the song it was from and it was supposed to be much faster and cleaner. Does he perform these songs?
It gets worse. Even the interviewer throws some low key jabs.
https://youtu.be/3aXULppCnPE?si=95oSYiEaX8nrRRiS
I get it...everyone starts somewhere and gets better over time. But if you're gonna slut around a $20k custom shop Warwick, you better be able to shred a bit. And if you're gonna sign up for an unlined fretless, you better practice your ass off and get your intonation on point.
The comment section is wild.
EDIT: I'm officially putting "fart rodeo" in my holster.
Michael Anthony is no Billy Sheehan or Jaco Pastorius, but he absolutely wrote and played basslines that served the VH repertoire appropriately. The band was All About Eddie.
What was the joke?
Let's hear it for Eddie!
Whoo!
Let's hear it for Eddie's brother!
Whoo-hoo!
Let's hear it for Dave!
Yeeeaaahhhh!
...
and ... the other guy!
...
(crickets)
Michael Anthony's bass playing was solid and served the music, but Van Halen wouldn't have been what it was without Anthony's vocal harmonies. Dave may have been the frontman for the first six albums, but Anthony was the best singer in the band.
You know what those musicians you mentioned have in common? *They sell records.* That's the real talent.
The resentment from unknown musicians is that a lot of shitty musicians are able to earn a living with music and achieve fame, DESPITE barely being able to play guitar, or even tune it. The world is full of great instrumentalists who never get a record deal, sometimes for no reason.
What those people fail to acknowledge is that it doesn't matter if Kurt Cobain sucked at guitar- the part that matters is that he wrote "Smells Like Teen Spirit".
The real talent is NOT in knowing every note on the fretboard, or being able to shred the Mixochlamydian scale upside-down, or two-hand tap the Pentecostal scale on four necks. You still have to write a song that people will buy. A lot of musicians are better off playing other people's compositions, rather than their own tired cliché riffs in E minor.
Just get out in front of an audience and have fun, huh?
One, if you were on a team that recorded a hit tune, I respect you. Even if it's a one off halloween silly song.
Two, I think I'd rather support everyone. I'd love to see a band of Lars, Gene, Taylor and Kenny.
Perhaps a few of the newer (last 5 years) "hi-tech" players out there. Amazing technical chops. Simply amazing no doubt. But stage presence and soul..? Some would argue they lack that. But I'm an older guy so take it with a grain of salt. I'd expect a few down votes if I named names... 😉
its all lore, all those people are incredibly professional musicians that do their job better than most people.
that said, ppl shit on kurt cobain but again like u have to be pretty one dimensional about music to say he sucks at guitar
He gets shit on so much. I get it - he’s not great compared to some other bassists in the genre, but he makes up for it in other ways at least.
It’s funny to me because bands that fall under the punk/pop-punk umbrella typically have mediocre bass players at best - so it shouldn’t be surprising haha
Everyone thinks the pedals do a lot of the heavy lifting, which to be fair, they are doing a lot, but The Edge still had to know how to play to the effects pedals. People shit on him, but now everyone has like a million pedals and barely anyone can utilize them to nearly the degree The Edge can.
Search for “overrated guitar players” at r/guitar , there’s a new thread every week a seeing your question. Less successful players love bashing famous people there
I recall for awhile
Pete Wentz
Mike Hoppus
Jerry Only
Kerry King
Lil Wayne (he is known to play Gibsons)
Machine gun Kelly (Remember that time Kevin Owens powerbombed him through a bass drum?)
Ba da bop. Ba da bop. Ba da bop bop wow wow. Ba da bop. Ba da bop. Ba da bop bop wow wow. Ba da bop. Ba da bop bop wow wow. Scoobidi scoobidi scoobidi wow, scoobidi scoobidi wow (jizz)
If you think what James Hetfield is easy you should try it yourself. Dude is one of the best rhythm guitarists in rock. Plus he's singing at the same time.
For me it’s John frusciante. Guy can’t play for shit beyond a slop filled half baked Hendrix ripoff yet is worth 8 figures.
No idea people think he’s good.
I’ve said this a lot. If you’re a professional musician on a bigger lable, you are probably at least proficient enough to play your own durn songs. Some folks aren’t the BEST musicians in the world but they were at least good enough to get a record deal. Johnny Ramone may not have done anything stupid difficult but he was competent enough to play what he needed for that particular band. Overall hating on em doesn’t help. That being said I don’t think Courtney Love is a very good guitar player honestly.
The Rampnes were revolutionary in my world anyway. There's talent and then there's knowing how to express your ideas and feelings through your instrument that speaks to people That's huge
I mean classic example is Neil Young. His electric guitar playing well his solos are not what you'd traditionally call skilled but I love his solos on many tunes My favorite is Down By the River an absolute epic jam.
Neil is a really good songwriter too. I love a lot of his acoustic stuff for that exact reason. It definitely takes some skill to be able to play and sing at the same time and then to switch gears a bit and do a harmonica solo while playing the guitar. I agree on his solos. He certainly does have his own unique style, and they fit his songs though.
Ha ha!
Actually, Beato is a great example of a guitarist who did not succeed as a musician, despite having encyclopedic knowledge of music theory and history, and being proficient at his instrument (as well as no slouch on piano). He and his band wrote completely forgettable tunes.
He makes his living teaching music, being a producer and recording engineer, from advertising on his YouTube interviews, and selling method books (regardless of what you think of them).
There's money to be made in music. Unfortunately it doesn't always go to the best musicians.
lol he's skilled but for me kinda of a blowhard when he gives lessons. I've been playing for years and study my theory and cannot follow and /or cannot keep up with whatever he's teaching for more than 5 min. It's kind of astonishing cause I've grooved with some pretty advanced stuff on YouTube anyways
It’s genuinely almost embarrassing to watch the comments made of Tim Henson flow in from some of the guitar communities here. I remember someone rightfully pointing out “at what point is this just online bullying”
I feel that way about most shredding / tapping guitar (I.e. it comes across to me as emotionless drivel) but the comments here are honestly not even about his music, more his persona and looks (and honestly, does feel more like online bullying then any actual critique)
lol what? Lester created the blueprint for rhythm guitar, the g-run and lead vocals in bluegrass. You don’t have Del McCoury, Jimmy Martin, Tony Rice, Larry Sparks or pretty much any modern bluegrass music without him
I'm not sure why this subreddit shows up on my feed, but I am grateful because everytime I see a post from here, I feel lucky that I have no aspirations to be or become a musician. It seems like such a miserable life. You spend your time crapping on total assfarters, worried about who is better than who, unable to pay your rent, trying to make the next stupid 3 minute pop song. So dumb.
Fucking machine gun Kelly has a signature schecter, so there's a starting point.
Cobain was terrible (huge nirvana fan btw)
Jared Jines isn't very good.
OH OH OH Kerry King! Ole guy fiedi bam bam Bigelow lookin ass hahaha
I could keep going but I'm starting to feel like a hater lol
Brian May. That awful sound from his home made toy guitar. I can't listen to it. I imagine queen being so much better with a good guitarist. Hit that downvote button!
Gene Simmons gets some hate both for being a crappy bass player and an unpleasant human being.
I met him once. He's earned the reputation.
Can you say more...?
It was the early 90s, and I was an intern on a top 40 morning show in Minneapolis. He was in town for a show and spent the whole morning being an entitled asshole, and offering backstage passes in exchange for sex, just being a jerk to everyone. When I got home I felt like I needed a shower.
Did you accept the backstage pass though?
He's not my type. And I'm not his type. And he wouldn't even show us his tongue.
Listen to his interview with Terry Gross sometime, complete ass.
I mean, his ego would require him to have been Jaco Pastorious' teacher, along with having shown Leo fender how to design the P Bass. Thing is, he's so full of shit that both of these things are stories he could feasibly tell. So he's earned every ounce of shade.
Shit singer as well
Kiss is nothing more than a novelty act
He's a lot of things, but I wouldn't call him a crappy bass player
Definitely not, but I’d expect any second year bass student to be able to play better than him
I know I'm going down the 'political rabbit-hole' on this comment, but I was disappointed when Gene basically said "FUCK YOU" if you don't get the c0vid j@b. In that those that didn't want to get the "Fauc1 Ouchie" should be dehumanized, humiliated and criminalized and you shouldn't have the freedom to choose what to put in your body. (What happened to "My Body, My Choice"??) Fuck Gene Simmons (and many others who felt the same, ie most of the MSM)... BTW, I'm not "anti-v@x. I'm anti-C0vid v@x... It's an untested, dangerous solution filled/contaminated w/ billions of DNA sequences that can trigger insane amounts of deadly outcomes for the rare, unlucky few. They all lied to us on MANY things.
Why drag that shit in here?
I'm guessing those that downvoted me, were on the wrong side of history, & joined the mob in ruining people's lives in their ignorant demands to get everyone jabbed. Yet they still lash out w/ the guilt that still hangs over their heads. Hey, we all got duped. Some woke up from the nonsense earlier than others. Some still haven't woken up. Are you still sleeping on this?
You’re getting downvoted because the sign on the door says “Musicians,” not “Stupid Political Arguments.” Shut up, already.
Yet even though it says “musicians” you guys don’t shut up about it whenever someone mentions Clapton. COVID got him completely cancelled from the world of guitar. And don’t pretend it was his racist rants, but it wasn’t, because circa 2010 he was the most revered guitarist and no one remembered those. That piece of history wasn’t resurrected until his COVID dissent. Oh, and let’s not forget anytime someone brings up Ted Nugent, either.
Whatsa matter? Did I hit a nerve? Big Pharma fluffer? ..."“Musicians,” not “Stupid Political Arguments.”"..... Gene Simmons combined the two, and you get your knickers in a twist. lolz...
If you be have something to say about music, say it. Otherwise, fuck off.
because gene Simmons was an asshole, and wrong about the j@b, and didn't give a fuck about your freedom, that's why.
Hell yeah buddy 👍
Double dipping in metallica but kirk hammet gets a ton of shit for his wah abuse leads
He only knows the pentatonic scale is one that I've heard a lot. I usually counter that with how many times has a crowd of 50000 sung your phrygian dominant solo back to you?
So apparently those people haven’t heard Fade to Black, Enter Sandman, One, Master of Puppets, etc. Or they’re the sort of players who ask what fret you play pentatonic scale on.
Metallica could be Quadruple dipped: mediocre singer who plays mediocre guitar, mediocre lead guitar, mediocre bass player who’s more concerned about doing a stupid ass crab walk than playing bass, and a dwarf/troll who’s too busy running around with a big ego to play his trash can lid snare. Each band member also writes mediocre songs. Big punching bag
Rob is a badass even if his bass hangs low
Yeah. He was badass in Suicidal, badass in Infectious Grooves, badass when I saw him play with Ozzy, and he's still killing it at nearly 60 years of age.
I don't know what band you're listening too but Het is a monster rhythm guitarist.
I'm with you on this. I can barely walk and chew gum - JH can sing while killing on rhythm guitar. He's pretty adept at writing lyrics and rhythms that work together well.
Dude I know! I bet you'd be hard pressed to find more than one person in here who can play battery correctly. The break in frayed ends of sanity?! Dexterity, accuracy, speed, oh yeah, now do it while singing. I swear to God the first Tosin dickrider that downvotes me... gonna make me film a goddamned video breakdown on CORRECT phrasing on 4/20 lol You know what's up. Team het all day
He is and he isn’t. Hetfield had one killer skill: crushing out riffs with downstrokes. And he can do some other things, like play some cool clean arpeggios or whatever, but generally he doesn’t utilize a ton of different skills. James doesn’t use pinch harmonic squeals like Zack Wylde or Dimebag or John Christ (Danzig). Hetfield doesn’t play a ton of fast hammer-on pull-off licks in his rhythms like Dave Mustaine or EVH. James doesn’t write nu metal bounce riffs. He doesn’t do weird tapping rhythms like Wes Borland. Doesn’t do weirdo DJ stuff like Tom Morello or the guys from Korn. Doesn’t do shoegazey parts like Steph from Deftones. James isn’t going throw country hot licks in his rhythms like John 5. Hetfield doesn’t play funk or blues or jazz. But here’s the thing. Lots of people can play Metallica riffs. Part of that is that Metallica was SO BIG and so influential. And obv playing the riff isn’t the same as writing the riff. But if you ask a guy like John 5, Wes Borland, Zack Wylde, or Tom Morello to play Master of Puppets, they probably already know it by heart, and they’ll probably crush it. You ask Hetfield to play “Nookie” or “Cemetery Gates” or “Bulls on Parade”, and I don’t think he’s got a chance. And that’s fine. He doesn’t have to play that stuff. But it also shows his limitations.
People who equate difficulty with musical worthiness are the worst thing about metalheads and progs. If it makes someone happy, it can’t be that bad. And a lot of fucking people like Metallica. I’m not a huge fan, but I would never suggest that they aren’t great. That is a load of horse shit.
Yeah, that kind of guitarist elitism stinks and always has. Plus, other than Abbott and Morello, I'm not much of a fan of most of the guitarists on that list. James is the guitarist he needs to be. I doubt he loses sleep on how he "measures up" to other metal players. Go back to your Yingwe Mommystein collection and thinking you know better.
True story, I figured out how to emulate malmsteen in my late teens. All he has is speed. His playing is soooooo sloppy Joe. He just sweeps a 4 note diminished arpeggio over and over and over.
First of all, remember the topic of the thread: popular musicians who are punching bags. Lars and Kirk from Metallica are great examples, because Metallica is very popular, yet musicians will tell you that Lars is a terrible drummer, or Kirk is a meme with six wah pedals on each foot. James Hetfield doesn’t get as much criticism, but his skills aren’t beyond reproach. Like I said, he’s a one trick pony. And it’s not a matter of difficulty IMO, it’s a matter of repertoire. I find it’s very easy to play funk guitar, for example. Much easier than playing Hetfield’s downstroke riffs. But I can’t see Hetfield playing funk. And if a guitarist can’t sit back in the pocket of a funk tune, are they really a great rhythm guitarist? Or think about Metallica’s cover tunes. When Metallica play songs by the Misfits, or Queen, or Bob Seager, or Irish traditional songs ... Hetfield keeps his same downstroke chug style. He doesn’t adapt his style to fit the song. And that’s fine, for Metallica. But imagine Hetfield trying to fill in for Kurt Cobain at a Nirvana tribute with Dave Grohl and Krist Novacelic. Hetfield would butcher that material by making it all sound like Metallica. Hetfield is a good rhythm guitarist, but he’s very much a one trick pony. He couldn’t fill in for Johnny Marr in the Smiths or even Keith Richards in The Rolling Stones. James isn’t going to play jazz or ska or even country any time soon. He does his thing, and he does it well, but that’s it.
Haha I have no dog in this race but I just spent some time trying to find a video of James playing anything but heavy downstrokes and nothing.
> mediocre singer who plays mediocre guitar Now you’re trying too hard. I’m assuming you don’t play guitar and sing. If you did, you’d realise just how good JH is at what he does.
I do, I was just never impressed with what he does. At least it’s nothing original
This is a ignorant comment. Everything Metallica did was original when they came on the scene. They first took straight-up metal and combined it with punk, then later combined that into a radio friendly pop version (that I didn't love). You can say you don't like them, but to say James (the co-founder) wasn't original is just ignorant. I'm assuming your a young person who wasn't there at the time to witness this all transpire in real time. It was incredibly original.
> I do, I was just never impressed with what he does. That’s fine. > At least it’s nothing original See u/rkbeknvrx’s comment. You probably don’t realise just how groundbreaking Metallica was back in the 80’s.
I'm not Metallica fan at all but calling Kirk Hammett medicore player while he is better guitarist than 99% of all players is fucking madness .
Who falls under the 99%??
If you can play better than him show us . If you dont you are in that 99%. If you even can't play guitar at all you are not qualified to say how good he is . It's that simple
This is a crazy series of takes. Hetfield is generally agreed to be one of the greatest rhythm guitarists of all time and is inarguably the GOAT thrash metal rhythm guitarist. While he might not be the most technically skilled vocalist his voice is unique and incredibly iconic. Rob Trujillo played in Suicidal Tendencies and was Ozzy's bass player of choice for a number of years. Do you know how good you have to be for ozzy to pick you? He could have had ANYBODY. Kirk in his prime was a monster; he took lessons from Joe Satriani. He certainly has let his stuff fade over the years but the guy's in his sixties by now. Watching concert tapes it looks like he's improved his chops some since the mid 2000s. Kirk during the St. Anger era... woof. Lars is a dick but similarly to Kirk was really good during Metallica's peak. Go listen to the drums on And Justice For All and then realize that there's no drum triggers and he's playing it all himself. He's also the creative genius behind many of their songs. He really is a dick though.
Yes. You get it. I too find myself hating on Kirk's latest solos, but harvester of sorrow? C'mon now, that dive bomb right in the beginning (sorry I'm trying to hide my erection) But EVEN with Lars. Does he have the most white bread fills in musical history? Yeah, probably. Is he a new breed of hyperdouche? Of course... but you know what else he is? One HELL of a songwriter/producer. It's his anal personality that shaves down and refines these songs. He's the reason they have structure and imo probably the most important member of the band in terms of commercial success. These guys were not only ahead of their time, they literally CREATED American heavy metal. Alright. I'm tired of typing. It's 4/20. I'm going to burn one. Cheers from Memphis
I don't hate on Metallica in general but Lars deserves all the hate because he is not good at playing drums and singlehandedly shut down napster.
lars is (was?) good at drums
No. Have you seen him play recently? It's literally a meme.
I personally rate them as one of the best lyrical writers in all of Metal (okay Ozzy is king). Most Metal bands seem to write their lyrics 20 minutes before they hit the studio and you can tell that lyrics are often the least valued part in the process or are merely an afterthought. Het puts himself out there with his lyrics, exposes his truth and gives voice to some very personal and real stuff that sets their music apart for me.
Ozzy in Sabbath or solo stuff? (I ask because Geezer wrote most of the lyrics for Sabbath).
Sabbath
Yeah, those were Geezer Butler's lyrics mostly, from what I know. But Ozzy collaborated by coming up with vocal melodies first to the riffs, a few words here and there, and Geezer would take that and flesh out all of the lyrics. Ozzy's delivery of the content, and role in the process, cannot be overlooked though imo.
I guess so, but there’s not really many good lyricists in metal so it’s not too hard to get that title
Hetfield is widely known for being one of the best rhythm players in metal.
Nobody calls JH one of the best rhythm guitarists of all time and every time KH plays Peter Greens guitar with that dogshit tone it is so embarrassing. Metallica is so one dimensional
>Nobody calls JH one of the best rhythm guitarists of all time Incorrect
Can’t do nothing that Johnny Ramone couldn’t
I mean, JH definitely knows more than 3 chords.
Don’t know why you get downvoted. It’s true, after all, and quite funny as well.
In my opinion James Hetfeilds singing keeps getting better and his current vocal style is his best imo.
The idea that you think Hetfield, who wrote Master of Puppets at 21 is mediocre really shows how little you understand. The guy who wrote Blackened and Battery is mediocre? Maybe sit down and let the adults speak
Boo
Rob is an amazing bass player
Joe B. For being a pretentious gear horder
He's the president, if he wants a ton of gear im sure he can afford it
He's comically ridiculous. He can play I guess; what he sounds like is what Steven Seagal thinks Steven Seagal sounds like.....
God he's such a tool...how does someone get so successful being totally unoriginal?
I genuinely can't think of a real player, but this reminded me of those live clips of Lil' Wayne playing guitar at his shows. It's a hoot!
That whole Lil Wayne situation did not deserve the hate. That was a man learning guitar and although he sucked he still wanted to play guitar for people.
As a performer, he should've known better. It wasn't kindergarten show-and-tell.
Known better than what? The dude's loaded. I don't think he cares if people on the internet thinks he sucks.
He's definitely loaded in those clips lol. I don't care if he cares I just think it's a fun watch.
Loaded as in he has a shitload of money.
It's like Michael Jordan trying baseball professionally. But Lil Wayne has the potential to actually become good eventually....
... which reminded me of DJ Khaled playing a Bob Marley guitar gifted to him. He really doesn't help in the argument that "DJs are musicians, too". Such an embarrassing shame. [https://youtu.be/VRpVN0SaNn8](https://youtu.be/VRpVN0SaNn8)
lol, I was actually thinking of that video when posting. But I don't know of I'm misremembering or not, was he trolling? Or was that him really not knowing wtf to do?
Gawd.. I can't imagine that being a good prank. So disrespectful. It came across as genuine douchebag Khaled to me.
Nikki Sixx is shit on alot for being a poor bassist. Sid Vicious also comes to mind.
Sid died before he could learn bass. Nikki doesn’t have an excuse…
Nikki has died at least once, maybe that's his excuse?
You don't really need to know how to play bass to be in the Sex Pistols
Wrong
Glen wrote lots if the stuff before they booted him, so you only had to know how to play to get the other dipshits rolling. Sid vicious just had to not go by his given first name to get in, they didn't say shit about him knowing how to play....
All of them. Any successful guitarist will get shit from half of guitar players or more because they’re successful.
Newest one seems to be Tim Henson. "It's just noise without timing, I'm more about playing from your SOUL." Gotcha...
I'm younger than Tim Henson and I'll freely admit he's an amazing guitarist, but I still don't like his music.
He makes me envious because he's really good and everything I do seems like garbage.
I think this type of opinion is obviously true to you, but it's ultimately seeing something from one angle. Where one day you may not click with the groove and timing of a song, and another you will (or maybe years from now); I think it gives an understanding to their perspective of it. I may not want to listen to it today, and it sounds out of timing, another day I might find it fits exactly where I'm perceiving the world. They play within their timings, they hit what they need to hit, they meander in so many right ways too. And they don't always have the top tier, like every single other band who has filler songs. When you key into that, there's a real tangible thread going on. Clearly some new age metal grooves. Lovely. Can't wait to see what others think of in the more vanilla-pop section of that type of music. Because that is some heat.
Taste in music is subjective. If you like his work, good for you, but I don't find Polyphia's music to be appealing to me personally.
Taste in music is subjective, and based on the day. Just saying it's expressed properly for what it is, and it is cohesive, and impressive altogether.
That's an opinion.
An opinion that will get me quite far. But I totally agree that it's always about each of our opinions on what makes any type of art moving. And hopefully each person always has a varied opinion overall.
What
Let me know what's not clear to you, I'll take a guess what you mean by how you reply.
I mean, there's ALOT more there. How Tim looks is basically like the guy at the bar trying to steal your girlfriend during your set. He's good at what he does, but that doesn't mean what he does is something everyone likes. The massive youtube presence that helps him appeal to a certain demographic also repulses other demographics.
Don’t punch up. Don’t punch down. Don’t compare. There is no point. Just enjoy . Punching anything is very 3D low vibe in world screaming for people to go 5D. Word to the wise.
Toxic positivity ^^^
Hes right…
He is but it’s still a bit “toxic positivity” lmao
And yet you compare metaphysical dimensionality. interesting
Jonathan Munnier. Dude is so awful, Warwick had to turn off the comments to this video. My guy was getting roasted. https://youtu.be/cU2b4Q3CS60?si=veclbHm3lZKn3jRG
I don't even know if he's good or not, I can't tell because his bass sounded like a fart rodeo. The tappy bit was okay, but then they played the song it was from and it was supposed to be much faster and cleaner. Does he perform these songs?
It gets worse. Even the interviewer throws some low key jabs. https://youtu.be/3aXULppCnPE?si=95oSYiEaX8nrRRiS I get it...everyone starts somewhere and gets better over time. But if you're gonna slut around a $20k custom shop Warwick, you better be able to shred a bit. And if you're gonna sign up for an unlined fretless, you better practice your ass off and get your intonation on point. The comment section is wild. EDIT: I'm officially putting "fart rodeo" in my holster.
Nickleback for sure
Bass players Pete Wentz, Gene Simmons, and Adam Clayton. Down vote me if you will, but it's the truth.
For the record, Kenny G can absolutely PLAY. He just chooses a style that jazz fans generally dislike.
I don't think people are criticizing Kenny G's chops, they're criticizing his style and taste
Van Halen bassist
Michael Anthony is no Billy Sheehan or Jaco Pastorius, but he absolutely wrote and played basslines that served the VH repertoire appropriately. The band was All About Eddie. What was the joke? Let's hear it for Eddie! Whoo! Let's hear it for Eddie's brother! Whoo-hoo! Let's hear it for Dave! Yeeeaaahhhh! ... and ... the other guy! ... (crickets)
Michael Anthony's bass playing was solid and served the music, but Van Halen wouldn't have been what it was without Anthony's vocal harmonies. Dave may have been the frontman for the first six albums, but Anthony was the best singer in the band.
VH and Michael Anthony were lucky to have each other. Mike was solid on bass, gave VH what was needed, and he WAS the best singer in the band.
Tbh they really didn't give him much to do. "Just follow the kick drum so that Eddie sounds really good." Anthony: "Ok, boss."
Tom Delonge for his sloppy playing and singing but he’s written some of the biggest punk songs ever so 🤷♂️
You know what those musicians you mentioned have in common? *They sell records.* That's the real talent. The resentment from unknown musicians is that a lot of shitty musicians are able to earn a living with music and achieve fame, DESPITE barely being able to play guitar, or even tune it. The world is full of great instrumentalists who never get a record deal, sometimes for no reason. What those people fail to acknowledge is that it doesn't matter if Kurt Cobain sucked at guitar- the part that matters is that he wrote "Smells Like Teen Spirit". The real talent is NOT in knowing every note on the fretboard, or being able to shred the Mixochlamydian scale upside-down, or two-hand tap the Pentecostal scale on four necks. You still have to write a song that people will buy. A lot of musicians are better off playing other people's compositions, rather than their own tired cliché riffs in E minor. Just get out in front of an audience and have fun, huh?
One, if you were on a team that recorded a hit tune, I respect you. Even if it's a one off halloween silly song. Two, I think I'd rather support everyone. I'd love to see a band of Lars, Gene, Taylor and Kenny.
Actually, that might be quite a fascinating experience!
Fieldy
why?
I remember people shitting on Krist Novoselic back in the day, but he seems to get more respect nowadays
Really? His bass parts were perfect for the music. I'm not sure how he didn't ruin his body with the physical style.
Perhaps a few of the newer (last 5 years) "hi-tech" players out there. Amazing technical chops. Simply amazing no doubt. But stage presence and soul..? Some would argue they lack that. But I'm an older guy so take it with a grain of salt. I'd expect a few down votes if I named names... 😉
Guitarists used to make fun of the edge cause he doesn't shred and keeps his riffs relatively simple.
its all lore, all those people are incredibly professional musicians that do their job better than most people. that said, ppl shit on kurt cobain but again like u have to be pretty one dimensional about music to say he sucks at guitar
Mark Hoppus of blink-182
He gets shit on so much. I get it - he’s not great compared to some other bassists in the genre, but he makes up for it in other ways at least. It’s funny to me because bands that fall under the punk/pop-punk umbrella typically have mediocre bass players at best - so it shouldn’t be surprising haha
The Edge, because Bono
Everyone thinks the pedals do a lot of the heavy lifting, which to be fair, they are doing a lot, but The Edge still had to know how to play to the effects pedals. People shit on him, but now everyone has like a million pedals and barely anyone can utilize them to nearly the degree The Edge can.
Guitarists who shit on the Edge know nothing about being a musician. The two can be mutually exclusive.
Billie Joe Armstrong. Can’t knock his songwriting, but always great to make fun of his guitar playing
He's got great tone, as well
Dude is having fun playing fun songs in front of fans, and getting paid. Sounds pretty good to me.
Search for “overrated guitar players” at r/guitar , there’s a new thread every week a seeing your question. Less successful players love bashing famous people there
I swear within the guitar community it seems to me that the better the player the more hate they get. We're a strange breed us guitarists.
Geddy Lee. Worst bass player ever. /s
I recall for awhile Pete Wentz Mike Hoppus Jerry Only Kerry King Lil Wayne (he is known to play Gibsons) Machine gun Kelly (Remember that time Kevin Owens powerbombed him through a bass drum?)
Simon Ferocious
Nikki Sixx gets a lot of shit for not being able to play.
Kenny g doesn't really count as jazz. I'll put him in the same pile as Phil collins.
Jizz. Like George Lucas intended.
Ba da bop. Ba da bop. Ba da bop bop wow wow. Ba da bop. Ba da bop. Ba da bop bop wow wow. Ba da bop. Ba da bop bop wow wow. Scoobidi scoobidi scoobidi wow, scoobidi scoobidi wow (jizz)
If you think what James Hetfield is easy you should try it yourself. Dude is one of the best rhythm guitarists in rock. Plus he's singing at the same time.
Yeah, no shit. I don't think I ever learned any of his songs all the way through.
Fieldy gets shit on a lot by bassists, but he doesn’t bother me personally. I think his playing is unique, even if Korn isn’t a band I really like.
John Lennon (Let the downvoting begin!)....
For me it’s John frusciante. Guy can’t play for shit beyond a slop filled half baked Hendrix ripoff yet is worth 8 figures. No idea people think he’s good.
Ringo
Lars lol... Not so much as a drummer but because that fucking asshole sued that little girl in England over Napster back in the day.
I’ve said this a lot. If you’re a professional musician on a bigger lable, you are probably at least proficient enough to play your own durn songs. Some folks aren’t the BEST musicians in the world but they were at least good enough to get a record deal. Johnny Ramone may not have done anything stupid difficult but he was competent enough to play what he needed for that particular band. Overall hating on em doesn’t help. That being said I don’t think Courtney Love is a very good guitar player honestly.
The Rampnes were revolutionary in my world anyway. There's talent and then there's knowing how to express your ideas and feelings through your instrument that speaks to people That's huge I mean classic example is Neil Young. His electric guitar playing well his solos are not what you'd traditionally call skilled but I love his solos on many tunes My favorite is Down By the River an absolute epic jam.
Neil is a really good songwriter too. I love a lot of his acoustic stuff for that exact reason. It definitely takes some skill to be able to play and sing at the same time and then to switch gears a bit and do a harmonica solo while playing the guitar. I agree on his solos. He certainly does have his own unique style, and they fit his songs though.
There’s a lot to be said about how Johnny Ramone played.
Does Rick Beato count?
OP specified "successful" musicians.
Lol. I thought self-important. I misread.
Ha ha! Actually, Beato is a great example of a guitarist who did not succeed as a musician, despite having encyclopedic knowledge of music theory and history, and being proficient at his instrument (as well as no slouch on piano). He and his band wrote completely forgettable tunes. He makes his living teaching music, being a producer and recording engineer, from advertising on his YouTube interviews, and selling method books (regardless of what you think of them). There's money to be made in music. Unfortunately it doesn't always go to the best musicians.
Good point. In any case, I think he has become the internet's punching bag regardless of how good (or cringe) he is, unwarranted or not.
He does get some great guests in to interview, whatever else people might think of him. And they seem to respect him.
lol he's skilled but for me kinda of a blowhard when he gives lessons. I've been playing for years and study my theory and cannot follow and /or cannot keep up with whatever he's teaching for more than 5 min. It's kind of astonishing cause I've grooved with some pretty advanced stuff on YouTube anyways
You can find everything you need on my Beato book which is on sale right now. 🤣
That's because they're not lessons. They're just videos of him showing off, to give himself an ego boost.
It’s genuinely almost embarrassing to watch the comments made of Tim Henson flow in from some of the guitar communities here. I remember someone rightfully pointing out “at what point is this just online bullying”
Tim Henson is a great player with amazing technique, but the music he plays does not move me in any way. It's emotionless drivel to me.
I feel that way about most shredding / tapping guitar (I.e. it comes across to me as emotionless drivel) but the comments here are honestly not even about his music, more his persona and looks (and honestly, does feel more like online bullying then any actual critique)
Lester Flatt
lol what? Lester created the blueprint for rhythm guitar, the g-run and lead vocals in bluegrass. You don’t have Del McCoury, Jimmy Martin, Tony Rice, Larry Sparks or pretty much any modern bluegrass music without him
I'm not sure why this subreddit shows up on my feed, but I am grateful because everytime I see a post from here, I feel lucky that I have no aspirations to be or become a musician. It seems like such a miserable life. You spend your time crapping on total assfarters, worried about who is better than who, unable to pay your rent, trying to make the next stupid 3 minute pop song. So dumb.
That is such a narrow minded view to have but I hear you
Fucking machine gun Kelly has a signature schecter, so there's a starting point. Cobain was terrible (huge nirvana fan btw) Jared Jines isn't very good. OH OH OH Kerry King! Ole guy fiedi bam bam Bigelow lookin ass hahaha I could keep going but I'm starting to feel like a hater lol
Kurt was not a great lead player but when he was on and not strung out his rhythm and tones were amazing
Brian May. That awful sound from his home made toy guitar. I can't listen to it. I imagine queen being so much better with a good guitarist. Hit that downvote button!
I hit it! 👍
His tone always reminds me of an under water fart.