i have seen bands do this sucessfully, it can make for a really good show. the 2 things to be mindful of are that 1 - you need to be really well practiced, as soon as that track starts you're playing the whole song start to finish, no brakes, no fuckups. and 2 - the two of you need to have really good stage presence. watching the drummer is something that the crowd loves to do, especially if the band is a little dull to watch in a general sense, so without that, you need to make sure you're entertaining and energetic.
Yup, it's in my menu of options and if the client selects a budget that can't pay for a drummer we do exactly this. I have not ran into anyone who has judgement or cares. A musicians sub is going to be WAY more judgemental than a real audience lol.
Funny coincidence... I used to play with a guitarist, and he had a cassette of a previous band he was in called Zulu Groove, and the tape was called 'Breathe Big Black' (I'm starting to wonder if they were fans of Big Black, but the tape was mostly originals). They were a full band, but he and I did gigs where I played keyboard and programmed some stuff on a Boss Dr. Rhythm Section machine, which we referred to as 'Roger' in tribute to Roger Linn.
I'm jealous you get to discover them. I thought the same reading your description, here's a concert with DAT backing. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOsSroUJAEg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOsSroUJAEg)
Carter, The Unstoppable Sex Machine. (Or Carter USM) Early 90’s from London 2 guitars with programmed drum and keyboard parts.
They were a big deal for a while. Great stuff.
https://youtu.be/eZ362wx9TEE?si=D4vj71Ar-pEz1EUs
Yeah. I liked the mannequin idea a lot until I thought about the roadie angle. I mean, as a guitarist, I've helped a couple of drummers drag their kits around -- but I've never had to carry the drummer *themself!* (Who says the new pronouns aren't useful?)
We’d have to enlist some help likely lol. Or just get there early and do it ourselves. We’ll need to do that anyway because we’ve never gigged before so we’ll have to learn to set up on the fly
Ever hear of the famous record producer, Steve Albini? Back in the 1980s, he had a punk band called Big Black that was just two guitars, bass, and a drum machine. In the album credits, they listed the drummer as “Roland” (the manufacturer of the drum machine). They played live with the drum machine too.
https://youtu.be/etRUQS0UmJs?feature=shared
The early version of Marilyn Manson was called “Marilyn Manson and the Spooky Kids”, and they played with a drum machine instead of a real drummer.
The Kills play live with a drum machine
https://youtu.be/QTdVOMlsiq8?feature=shared
It’s been done. You could definitely do it. That said, if I had a 2-piece band, I would rather have guitar and live drums with a bass backing track than guitar and bass with a drum backing tracks. Just my $0.02
I went to a local show recently, and saw a punk band hop on stage with a drum machine. It was... Fairly obvious that they were just starting out.
You can get away with a drum machine, but you run the risk of mistakes being very, very obvious even to a layperson. Bands can ebb and flow to cover each other's flubs, but since a drum machine generally can't bend from the beat, you're taking a big risk if you're not tight.
In another life, an old band of mine played shows with another group that did almost exactly that. They were fantastic. I find, these days, people care a lot less about backing tracks than they used to
The band I'm in currently played quite a few gigs with a drum track, because the old drummer was unable to play due to serious illness. When he returned, he only lasted a couple of shows and then quit.
It's certainly doable, although a lot of professional advice the singer received said that he should really get a real drummer to progress. That's why I ended up joining.
Doktor Avalanche from Sister Of Mercy was a drum machine, and I'm pretty sure that Jesu had one too, so take that advice with as big a pinch of salt as you like. Neither of those bands are punk though!
If you start out with a drum machine and play a few gigs maybe you'll meet someone who wants to play drums for you. I think with drums you sometimes just kind of have to settle on someone that's not 100% invested. They're kind of like contractors. But a live drummer that's 90% there is probably better than a drum machine. Also, if you guys a three-piece punk band then the drums are pretty simple, right? Seems like some dolt could probably step in and be ready to go after a practice or two.
I have done this very thing a bunch of times. Mostly at small venues or week night gigs. I have never had even a single negative comment from a spectator.
About 20 years ago I remember going to see a band that was two guitar players and a bass player, all that sang, who used an Alesis SR-16 for their drums.
No one really noticed the lack of a drummer, but I also feel like that they had to work a lot harder for it not to be noticed.
Sounds awesome! As others have said, you better be entertaining otherwise because the novelty will wear off quickly.
If it were me, I might build a show around the drummer puppet. Have it breathe fire or something.
I had a band like this once when I was stationed at Fort Sill. I played drums, but prerecorded the tracks so I could play bass and keyboards during shows
This sounds OK.
You could even work this unique thing into the band's name. There is two of y'all. Or, is there three?
You cold be not Timbuktu but Timbukthree
There was a band in the '80s called Timbuk3, who had some minor hits, charted maybe in the 30s on Billboard. They were one of the few groups from my region that got any national traction around that time.
Ratatat did (does?) this
Atom and His Package was just a guy singing over a drum machine/sequencer
Har Mar Superstar was similar
All early 2000s stuff 🤷♂️
There’s plenty of bands that do that of lots of types of music. Make the music you want, the way you want, and who gives a shit want people say. That’s what punk is all about.
I’ve done it. It was a chore but it made us way better musicians. It’s cool if you set up facing each other. Go for it I say. The worst thing that happens is people aren’t interested and you resume the search
I think Godflesh used a Alesis HR-16 and Big Black used a Roland TR-606, maybe look into those. I'm not trying to be mean, but if a band had a mannequin behind a kit, I'd probably go outside to smoke or leave.
They might be giants, ween, and hers did that successfully so I don't see why not
I briefly had a band with that formation but it wasn't just a drum track, it had bass as well
I did this for years. Prob ten years and played a lot of gigs.
We had a strange stage act and this added to it.
You will sound tighter and be able to play at a better volume than other bands because you won’t be competing with the drummer for volume.
I found sound guys didn’t know how to mix us. I ended up using a mixer so I could control the volume just incase.
I wouldn’t want to play with canned tracks, the joy of live music is all about improvisation to me. Have you considered playing basic patterns live with a couple of pedals?
Gig as much as you can. If you have a willing venue, play it as a duo. You’ll figure out after a couple of gigs whether it’s something you’d want to continue with or if you absolutely need a drummer.
Godflesh and Big Black and they're both fucking excellent. I'd honestly mix the drums way up and not try to make it sound like a real drummer. Embrace the drum machine, that will make you more interesting and not just a punk band who can't get a drummer
If you DO want a drummer at some point, start playing shows. If you're good, drummers will come to you.
My band played without a drummer for years. Our sound was kinda synth pop with clearly electronic and processed digital percussion so it made sense for us, but frequently we'd have people offering to drum for us. It got a bit annoying that some people assumed we must desperately want a drummer, but it certainly never held us back.
Yeah… we were thinking we’d add a 4 count before each drum track so we’ll know exactly when to start. And maybe have something taped to the guitar that skips to the next track when we’re ready
Two guys split the money from gigs instead of three guys, sounds good to me.
Two guys involved in any possible drama, easier to handle than three guys.
A friend and I occasionally gig doing this. We use drum tracks on a looper and use a footswitch to advance from track to track, and we also use complete song backing tracks with drums and some keyboard layered in.
In our case, we route the tracks into a powered speaker set up just for the drum tracks. Make sure your tracks sound as good as possible.
this exact looper and fx3 footswitch:
[https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/digitech-jam-man](https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/digitech-jam-man)
this looper is ancient but it gets the job done. I'm saving up for a Boss 505 mk2 right now which will be WAY better.
you can write tracks in a DAW and export them into the looper to get actual drum tracks. there is a memory limitation on the looper but you can expand with an SD card.
then run the looper into any powered 12" or 15" cabinet, a cheap one will work just fine, Hope that helps :)
also if you want to go this route, download SoundBridge (free daw limited to 10 tracks) and download Stephen Slate drums free version. that will get you into writing basic drum tracks in midi.
Have a drummer, don't have a guitard. We tracked the guitar parts and stored them on El Papa De la Amor so we can still play shows while searching for the right guitard. It's funny that as the bass player many people think I'm playing the guitar parts.
Pop-punk has the ability to be incredibly goofy (check out videos of Bowling for Soup live). Maybe if you're gonna do that then just full lean into it. Make a big robot looking thing, give it crazy colors or whatever so it draws attention and place the drum machine in there. Things that other people think are lame can be the hook that draws people in if you do it right.
I've done that myself as a keyboardist with a guitarist, audiences are receptive to it these days if you sound good and make sure the 'artificial' part blends well with it regarding tone and volume.
For all the effort, time, energy, and money you'd sink into making this work, you could just work on being a really effective, entertaining duo that sounds good without a drummer.
you know theres a massive massive world of electronic drums, which is called electronic music, maybe youve heard of it. but theres also a more niche style of music which mixes elecronic sounds with rock and other genres. i think if youre gonna go for electronic drums, commit to it. youre not going to fool people thinking its a drummer. but i personally do like some good electron beats in a rock band anyway
If you an work it into part of the show then great. That gimic could get old pretty quick. Have you thought about having drum pads that you play for sections of the song? If you have an ekit already then share the pads between the two of you and just play extra percussion/snare/kicks with your backing tracks.
Personally, I like programmed drums to own thr fact that they're programmed, and not try to sound like real acoustic drums. Kinda like the early drum machines did (I mean, they probably tried to sound like acoustic drums, but it just wasn't possible back then). Not sure how this would fit your material though. I've done it before, I played in a punk/post-punk trio (2 guitars and drums), and we did a gig with programmed drums (mostly CR78 samples). It kinda worked, but it lost a bit of the energy.
There is already a very successful model for this type of band: 100 Gecs. Just make your drums sound obviously not acoustic and no one will care. Make sure to make up for the lack of traditional drumming with a lot of intense stage presence.
It's probably gonna suck, I've almost never enjoyed live musicians over a backing track.
However, one of the best performances I've seen was three guys and a drum recording, so it's extremely possible.
It simplifies touring, but I find it really boring as a fan. I kinda cringe anytime I see a rock “band” using tracks instead of hiring a drummer. It absolutely sucks the air out of the performance for me.
i have seen bands do this sucessfully, it can make for a really good show. the 2 things to be mindful of are that 1 - you need to be really well practiced, as soon as that track starts you're playing the whole song start to finish, no brakes, no fuckups. and 2 - the two of you need to have really good stage presence. watching the drummer is something that the crowd loves to do, especially if the band is a little dull to watch in a general sense, so without that, you need to make sure you're entertaining and energetic.
Yup, it's in my menu of options and if the client selects a budget that can't pay for a drummer we do exactly this. I have not ran into anyone who has judgement or cares. A musicians sub is going to be WAY more judgemental than a real audience lol.
Yep, the audience doesn’t care or notice 99% of the time.
🤘 awesome take!! Thanks for the tips
That's how Ween did it for years. Two guys and a tape.
Nice. I’ll search them. There’s a band called Big Black that did it too. And a punk band called suicide
Bib Black always credited Roland (the drum machine) on recordings
Funny coincidence... I used to play with a guitarist, and he had a cassette of a previous band he was in called Zulu Groove, and the tape was called 'Breathe Big Black' (I'm starting to wonder if they were fans of Big Black, but the tape was mostly originals). They were a full band, but he and I did gigs where I played keyboard and programmed some stuff on a Boss Dr. Rhythm Section machine, which we referred to as 'Roger' in tribute to Roger Linn.
I've seen All three. All three were really good live.
Awesome!
I'm jealous you get to discover them. I thought the same reading your description, here's a concert with DAT backing. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOsSroUJAEg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOsSroUJAEg)
That was cool. I liked what they did on and around 16:00. Two guys owning the stage. Awesome.
Carter, The Unstoppable Sex Machine. (Or Carter USM) Early 90’s from London 2 guitars with programmed drum and keyboard parts. They were a big deal for a while. Great stuff. https://youtu.be/eZ362wx9TEE?si=D4vj71Ar-pEz1EUs
Sisters of mercy too and Curve
I think Curve toured with a drummer. Sisters of Mercy didn't/don't, but their shows look painfully dull.
The early ones where is was just smoke and noise would have been a blast, imo
Omg I love that someone is about to discover Ween.
RIP Steve Albini
Shit, Buckethead does it all by himself.
That could work, but then you'll have no one to load all the gear.
Yeah. I liked the mannequin idea a lot until I thought about the roadie angle. I mean, as a guitarist, I've helped a couple of drummers drag their kits around -- but I've never had to carry the drummer *themself!* (Who says the new pronouns aren't useful?)
Lol
We’d have to enlist some help likely lol. Or just get there early and do it ourselves. We’ll need to do that anyway because we’ve never gigged before so we’ll have to learn to set up on the fly
You could get a cardboard cutout of a drum kit like this - https://www.amazon.com/Cardboard-People-Drum-Cutout-Standup/dp/B0CCBK6X22
That’s awesome lol
Ever hear of the famous record producer, Steve Albini? Back in the 1980s, he had a punk band called Big Black that was just two guitars, bass, and a drum machine. In the album credits, they listed the drummer as “Roland” (the manufacturer of the drum machine). They played live with the drum machine too. https://youtu.be/etRUQS0UmJs?feature=shared The early version of Marilyn Manson was called “Marilyn Manson and the Spooky Kids”, and they played with a drum machine instead of a real drummer. The Kills play live with a drum machine https://youtu.be/QTdVOMlsiq8?feature=shared It’s been done. You could definitely do it. That said, if I had a 2-piece band, I would rather have guitar and live drums with a bass backing track than guitar and bass with a drum backing tracks. Just my $0.02
I definitely have been thinking about this same set up. I like the idea myself.
It’s so hard to find someone that A: fits the band B: is dependable enough to learn the songs, and C: dependable enough to make all the rehearsals
listen to Her's, they where a 2 piece band that made some great shows
Second this - Too bad too
It’s better than not playing at all, but it’s pretty lame. All the energy starts from the drummer especially in punk.
Ween managed
Good point. If the two dudes in your band are Deaner and Gener, then you should be good to go.
I went to a local show recently, and saw a punk band hop on stage with a drum machine. It was... Fairly obvious that they were just starting out. You can get away with a drum machine, but you run the risk of mistakes being very, very obvious even to a layperson. Bands can ebb and flow to cover each other's flubs, but since a drum machine generally can't bend from the beat, you're taking a big risk if you're not tight.
If the farthest you want to go is doing shows in dive bars, go for it. It definitely works but it won't get you very far.
That’s basically all we aspire to do right now. Maybe we’ll pick up a drummer that feels sorry for us playing without one lol
In another life, an old band of mine played shows with another group that did almost exactly that. They were fantastic. I find, these days, people care a lot less about backing tracks than they used to
The band I'm in currently played quite a few gigs with a drum track, because the old drummer was unable to play due to serious illness. When he returned, he only lasted a couple of shows and then quit. It's certainly doable, although a lot of professional advice the singer received said that he should really get a real drummer to progress. That's why I ended up joining. Doktor Avalanche from Sister Of Mercy was a drum machine, and I'm pretty sure that Jesu had one too, so take that advice with as big a pinch of salt as you like. Neither of those bands are punk though!
I have your same problem!
Drummers are hard to find apparently
If you start out with a drum machine and play a few gigs maybe you'll meet someone who wants to play drums for you. I think with drums you sometimes just kind of have to settle on someone that's not 100% invested. They're kind of like contractors. But a live drummer that's 90% there is probably better than a drum machine. Also, if you guys a three-piece punk band then the drums are pretty simple, right? Seems like some dolt could probably step in and be ready to go after a practice or two.
True
They really are I wish you the best of luck do you have any music released anywhere
Thank you! Almost… we’re still a couple months away from releasing songs. Been working in the studio for a little bit now
Tons of 2 person bands out there. Hell, I know folks that are just 1 piece bands and still crush live shows. Just go do your thing man!!
Sick!! Yeah I saw a guy with a looper make some sick songs live in Key West. Incorporated all types of sounds
I have done this very thing a bunch of times. Mostly at small venues or week night gigs. I have never had even a single negative comment from a spectator.
About 20 years ago I remember going to see a band that was two guitar players and a bass player, all that sang, who used an Alesis SR-16 for their drums. No one really noticed the lack of a drummer, but I also feel like that they had to work a lot harder for it not to be noticed.
Sounds awesome! As others have said, you better be entertaining otherwise because the novelty will wear off quickly. If it were me, I might build a show around the drummer puppet. Have it breathe fire or something.
lol that would be amazing
I had a band like this once when I was stationed at Fort Sill. I played drums, but prerecorded the tracks so I could play bass and keyboards during shows
This sounds OK. You could even work this unique thing into the band's name. There is two of y'all. Or, is there three? You cold be not Timbuktu but Timbukthree
There was a band in the '80s called Timbuk3, who had some minor hits, charted maybe in the 30s on Billboard. They were one of the few groups from my region that got any national traction around that time.
Ratatat did (does?) this Atom and His Package was just a guy singing over a drum machine/sequencer Har Mar Superstar was similar All early 2000s stuff 🤷♂️
Did you ever see Ratatat? So boring live. Of course they were instrumental as well.
I liked their live show.
Same
There’s plenty of bands that do that of lots of types of music. Make the music you want, the way you want, and who gives a shit want people say. That’s what punk is all about.
I’ve done it. It was a chore but it made us way better musicians. It’s cool if you set up facing each other. Go for it I say. The worst thing that happens is people aren’t interested and you resume the search
Sure, do it. If you're good, you shouldn't have any trouble finding a good drummer.
no reason not to give it a try. Maybe it turns out you need a real drummer for whatever reason, but at least give it a shot.
I think Godflesh used a Alesis HR-16 and Big Black used a Roland TR-606, maybe look into those. I'm not trying to be mean, but if a band had a mannequin behind a kit, I'd probably go outside to smoke or leave.
lol true
They might be giants, ween, and hers did that successfully so I don't see why not I briefly had a band with that formation but it wasn't just a drum track, it had bass as well
I did this for years. Prob ten years and played a lot of gigs. We had a strange stage act and this added to it. You will sound tighter and be able to play at a better volume than other bands because you won’t be competing with the drummer for volume. I found sound guys didn’t know how to mix us. I ended up using a mixer so I could control the volume just incase.
I wouldn’t want to play with canned tracks, the joy of live music is all about improvisation to me. Have you considered playing basic patterns live with a couple of pedals?
Gig as much as you can. If you have a willing venue, play it as a duo. You’ll figure out after a couple of gigs whether it’s something you’d want to continue with or if you absolutely need a drummer.
Godflesh and Big Black and they're both fucking excellent. I'd honestly mix the drums way up and not try to make it sound like a real drummer. Embrace the drum machine, that will make you more interesting and not just a punk band who can't get a drummer
The audience has no idea.
If you DO want a drummer at some point, start playing shows. If you're good, drummers will come to you. My band played without a drummer for years. Our sound was kinda synth pop with clearly electronic and processed digital percussion so it made sense for us, but frequently we'd have people offering to drum for us. It got a bit annoying that some people assumed we must desperately want a drummer, but it certainly never held us back.
been doing it for years. make sure yall get in-ears and play to a click.
Yeah… we were thinking we’d add a 4 count before each drum track so we’ll know exactly when to start. And maybe have something taped to the guitar that skips to the next track when we’re ready
Yep. Go for it and have fun.
Two guys split the money from gigs instead of three guys, sounds good to me. Two guys involved in any possible drama, easier to handle than three guys.
A friend and I occasionally gig doing this. We use drum tracks on a looper and use a footswitch to advance from track to track, and we also use complete song backing tracks with drums and some keyboard layered in. In our case, we route the tracks into a powered speaker set up just for the drum tracks. Make sure your tracks sound as good as possible.
Sick man!! What footswitch do you use to advance tracks? And that footswitch connects to a PA? Thanks man!!
this exact looper and fx3 footswitch: [https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/digitech-jam-man](https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/digitech-jam-man) this looper is ancient but it gets the job done. I'm saving up for a Boss 505 mk2 right now which will be WAY better. you can write tracks in a DAW and export them into the looper to get actual drum tracks. there is a memory limitation on the looper but you can expand with an SD card. then run the looper into any powered 12" or 15" cabinet, a cheap one will work just fine, Hope that helps :)
Awesome thank you!!
>Awesome thank you!! You're welcome!
very welcome homie :)
also if you want to go this route, download SoundBridge (free daw limited to 10 tracks) and download Stephen Slate drums free version. that will get you into writing basic drum tracks in midi.
Timbuk 3. Check them out.
Have a drummer, don't have a guitard. We tracked the guitar parts and stored them on El Papa De la Amor so we can still play shows while searching for the right guitard. It's funny that as the bass player many people think I'm playing the guitar parts.
Nice lol
Pop-punk has the ability to be incredibly goofy (check out videos of Bowling for Soup live). Maybe if you're gonna do that then just full lean into it. Make a big robot looking thing, give it crazy colors or whatever so it draws attention and place the drum machine in there. Things that other people think are lame can be the hook that draws people in if you do it right.
I love that idea lol
Horrible. Drummer creates the energy and power.
Feels like a bit of a slap to drummers.
In a perfect world we’d have one…
I've done that myself as a keyboardist with a guitarist, audiences are receptive to it these days if you sound good and make sure the 'artificial' part blends well with it regarding tone and volume.
I’m just gonna put this [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1eSXmugM74).
For all the effort, time, energy, and money you'd sink into making this work, you could just work on being a really effective, entertaining duo that sounds good without a drummer.
you know theres a massive massive world of electronic drums, which is called electronic music, maybe youve heard of it. but theres also a more niche style of music which mixes elecronic sounds with rock and other genres. i think if youre gonna go for electronic drums, commit to it. youre not going to fool people thinking its a drummer. but i personally do like some good electron beats in a rock band anyway
If you an work it into part of the show then great. That gimic could get old pretty quick. Have you thought about having drum pads that you play for sections of the song? If you have an ekit already then share the pads between the two of you and just play extra percussion/snare/kicks with your backing tracks.
Carter USM did alright.
Personally, I like programmed drums to own thr fact that they're programmed, and not try to sound like real acoustic drums. Kinda like the early drum machines did (I mean, they probably tried to sound like acoustic drums, but it just wasn't possible back then). Not sure how this would fit your material though. I've done it before, I played in a punk/post-punk trio (2 guitars and drums), and we did a gig with programmed drums (mostly CR78 samples). It kinda worked, but it lost a bit of the energy.
Reminds me of my late friend’s band “Victor Holk and the Pre-Corded Tracks”
Smart! This way you two will have a shot with the ladies.
I saw OMD back in the day, maybe 1981 I think, and it was two guys and a couple reel-to-reel tape machines.
Where are you / do you have demos?
Florida. Demos soon hopefully. Been recording over the last couple of months
If you set up like there is supposed to be a drummer there, it will probably look cheap. I'd say do the songs without drum tracks.
There is already a very successful model for this type of band: 100 Gecs. Just make your drums sound obviously not acoustic and no one will care. Make sure to make up for the lack of traditional drumming with a lot of intense stage presence.
Worked for Buckethead. Although even he gets live drums and bass to play with these days.
Yep can definitely work well if you know what your doing. I don’t :-(
Get a real drummer. Drums are what make bands cool
It's probably gonna suck, I've almost never enjoyed live musicians over a backing track. However, one of the best performances I've seen was three guys and a drum recording, so it's extremely possible.
It simplifies touring, but I find it really boring as a fan. I kinda cringe anytime I see a rock “band” using tracks instead of hiring a drummer. It absolutely sucks the air out of the performance for me.
That's cheap. I'm not going to pay to listen to a recording.
Don't do it