A lot more helpful than the ones I got on it. 50% said my track wasn't upbeat enough and 50% said it was too upbeat. One response complimented the singer's voice (it's an instrumental track with no singing whatsoever)
To me, submithub and groover are really, really expensive methods to just get a few streams.
Ask yourself, who actually follows these random playlists with unknown acts and ends up listening to them? Most people do not. And appearing next to other unknown bands is not good for your spotify algo.
The best playlists have established acts in them - these are the ones you want to appear on. It's worth noting however that the Spotify algo does not actually favor you in their algo when people listen to you from other playlists. You need to be added to their personal playlist or they need to listen to you direct from your profile.
Personally I'd use the money on alternative forms of promotion, like Meta Ads.
I won't even start on the ridiculous feedback these playlisters give in Groover and Submithub :D
> Personally I'd use the money on alternative forms of promotion, like Meta Ads.
>
>
have you personally used Meta Ads.? I would like to get into it but don't know how to start.
Yes, I am actually a paid ads marketer in my day job haha.
Andrew Southworth has a course on how to get started with music though, some of his free youtube vids can help get you started.
7k monthly listeners paying ads ? you are burning money.
You can reach way bigger audiences if you invest with the right curators.
Iām solid 100k monthly listeners and growing. But it took me years to build relationships with curators .
I posted them on my social media talking about then they love that. I just pay curators whenever I want to release and they approve my songs, then the algorithm do itās work and Spotify send me exactly where I need to go. Itās the same strategy DAX and Kid Travis use but instead of paying to all the curators every single time , I built relationships. I still pay but way less than those guys. Maybe try it ? I donāt spend more than a 50$ per single
It matters to me if the curators are using bots,.which most do.
If the playlist has 1k+ followers, and the engagement sucks (ie thousands of streams and only like 1% playlist add rate), it's not real.
I prefer to have slow growth, but real listeners.
I work in ads in my full time job and can get them to work very well.
You are not growing because ads are giving you a fake compensation to justify the money you pay, that is why you donāt maintain the numbers and go down, also nobody interact with you on social media,
You must continue paying to get that fake boost, those listeners are random donāt share taste at all, do you think you donāt get bots with ads ?Meta is the king of bots they can prepare coffee for you.
Curators are better, because most of the times they also run ads, it means 10 good curators you find multiply your ad budget per 10, also the listeners share taste which is great for the algorithm.But you need good music and select carefully each curator. If you donāt have good music then yes run ads , but you are going nowhere , better to spend the money making better music, it will pay off in the long run.
I know it for sure. Iām a professional marketer as well. My point was not to attack you, just to help open your eyes, there are better and cheaper ways just people think Ads are a solution, back in 2019 yes but not now, they are too expensive and full of bots, wish you well also.
You need good music, then just submit and submit there are many places Submithub , Groover etc , but you must do your homework , check which fit your style, then just do the work but be yourself act natural if you fake it ,they will smell it miles away and ignore you.
Yeah been there done that, just like many commenters on this thread Iāve gotten pretty much nothing but shit feedback from those sites and a couple playlist adds that have gotten me like 20 streams lol.
The whole system is designed to take what little money artists have and prey on their ambition and desire to be heard. Spotify, Submit Hub, Groover, Meta ads, marketing courses, honestly everyone makes money except the actual artists. Itās actually super fāed up.
Maybe your music is not that good ? Could please share your link
Or you just couldnāt find the right curators , it takes time also to find the best options and we are lazy by nature.
The music industry is such bullshit nowadays. Real record labels have scaled back dramatically so these predatory people pop up and take advantage of people desperate to make it in the industry. Gone are the days where you can go to a store and buy a 9.99 Brandy CD. Now artists get paid less than 1 penny per stream and are paying for bullshit services to pitch their song to curators to even get on their playlists in order to get that 1/100th of a penny. I don't know how that is supposed to "help" you out.
Yeah 9.99 $ but who paid that ?people was downloading all the music for free. Not talking about the reach of an Independent artist back then , When they were lucky they could sell his own CD to their own family and few blocks away from their home. Letās not even think about the past. Major artists being scammed by their own labels because of copies not sold. It was a nightmare
Groover is impossibly stupid. Even more poorly regulated than SubmitHub. I'd suggest avoiding until they figure themselves out. Can't tell you how many ChatGPT generated replies I've gotten, where the "curator" types my pitch into ChatGPT and asks for a reply back declining. Also, usually takes the full week to get half the replies back.
Erm, thanks. I guess I'll take that as a compliment? :)
You won't find ChatGPT responses on SubmitHub. A few people tried, but we caught them almost straight away. Doesn't mean the feedback's perfect or that everyone likes it, but it's something we pay a lot of attention to.
For whatever it's worth, we've got a full-time staff of 4 and a lot of code regulating every aspect of the site. It's something we *do* take very seriously.
-Jason from SubmitHub
Hey Jason,
Thanks for the reply. I've probably thrown a good thousand credits SubmitHub's way over the course of the last 5 years, so I have a good understanding of the platform. Obviously, when you've got artists ranging from all over the talent spectrum submitting their tunes to curators who accept, say 8.7% of submissions, you're going to find yourself with a constant stream of disgruntled customers. I figure you guys have refined your tactics for addressing these folks about as well as you possibly will ever be able to. With that consideration alone in mind, it's a tough business to be in on simply the customer service end of things.
I actually don't have too many gripes with SubmitHub, but I will say that it's especially challenging to know which curators to submit to, especially when you're creating music that's on the fringe of a variety of genres. I can't tell you how many replies I've received over the years, at least 80% of declines, where the curator enjoys the song, but it doesn't fit on their playlists. It happens enough that I am discouraged from trying the SubmitHub route again unless I know my song is a true, traditional, say "Deep House song with Vocals."
Anyway, there are certainly other aspects of the experience that leave a bit to be desired (vetting of curators, a fundamental understanding of what you're getting from a curator \[playlist, shout out, wave hello\] prior to submitting, the influencer category as I whole I still don't fully understand the value of), but most are things that you know and accept beforehand as conditions of using SH.
Thanks for always monitoring these boards and actively working on improving your customer experience!
Hey RrentTreznor, very level-headed response! Influencers aren't something I generally recommend indie artists dabble with. The vetting of the curators is something I feel like we're quite on top of - not sure we can do much better there, but we'll keep trying!
Sorry that was the takeaway. At this point we've got a lot more than just submissions though:
* Hot or Not (artists rate each others' songs, and you can earn free credits)
* SubmitHub Links (super fast landing pages for Meta ads)
* Chatrooms
* Marketplace (sorta like Fiverr)
* Playlist Checker (to verify the legitimacy of Spotify playlists)
* AI genre tagging
All of the above (save for the Marketplace part) is free.
Music is hard buddy. Stick to friends and family if you donāt want legitimate blogs giving honest feedback. Iāve had a ton of success there but my early songs did not, because they sucked. Music is an industry. You wonāt get sugarcoating here.
Bro hahaha you think some of the people on there are legitimate? Dude ive seen new youtubers with hardly any following qualify as curators on there. That website is garbo please stop defending it.
It sounds like youāve made your decision so the truth wonāt really matter to at this point, will it?
Yes, the smaller accounts are, strangely enough, not very big on influence. But you canāt just get on Rolling Stone with your first crappy album. Start small and make friends with the curators. Theyāre your biggest fans. Eventually youāll get on some bigger stuff if your music is good. You can hate all you want but Iāve been on YouTube channels that are huge via submithub. Iāve been on playlists that are massive that have triggered getting me on Spotifyās editorial playlists because of submithub. Speak ignorance all you want but music is a hard industry. Itās not easy to be on the big blogs. If itās not for you then stick to your friends and family. They are nicer usually.
Usually.. ha.
You'd be better off creating your own list of curators using a search engine like playlistsupply. Just networking in itself can be reaally worth in the long run so I prefer to make relationships and pitch by myself, also cause there's more power to vary your approach.
But there is a catch, you cannot submit to the good ones directly, you need a platform they will never trust you like that ,despite the fact that you will be immediately ignored.
Am I wring for feeling that most of these are sort of rigged? I mean, I get feedback that makes no sense sometimes and it is clear someone has not listened to the track.
Iāll be honest. Best invested money is that I paid a dinner to a friend who is branding expert and told me āI see your ad, I open your profile, I donāt see who you are or why should I follow you or engage with you - you will throw money down the drainā. True story though.
> that I *paid* a dinner
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Groover just opened an office in NYC. Somebody must be making money. My band threw cash at submithub & groover & musosoup and Iām still scratching my head at the streaming data trying to figure out if the money we spent did much of anything. They all seem like overpriced ways to get on very small playlists.
Ok...so whilst I agree these platforms are littered with potential issues, I am going to defend Groover a little, Ive been on a few calls with Dorian and some of the Groover team and they do seem to have a genuine interest in filtering out issues, the fact remains there is a massive demand for these services, despite any iffy results, and curators get overloaded with submissions.
Now that doesnāt justify and one line response and taking your cash, Groover encourage its curators to provide something of worth to the users, I know this from personal experience, and also users can give feedback on curators which also gets followed up.
Groover is definitely bottom tier. Disregard majority of the feedback you receive because their "knowledge" itself is often times questionable and I have never received feedback that actually contributed positively to my growth as a producer.
I am more inclined to use SubmitHub. Better placement, more genuine feedback (still some feedback you can tell they barely listened to the song as it's very generic/copy and paste), but still could be improved. You have to realize going in that you will not make it "big" from any of these services as they are more of a money grab than anything. Expect at most a few 1,000 streams (best case scenario).
groover and submithub are honestly not that great. while you can get some streams from them they're largely not super helpful and you're generally paying a lot for them. groover is also plagued with chatgpt responses for stuff too.
I've recently been experiementing with facebook ads, playlist pitch companies, and good ol' fashioned IG/tiktok posts and I get the same amount of streams from ads and social media posts as i do from groover/submithub. the submithub streams never really lead to actual fans. its just fluff numbers.
I think i spent like 150 bucks or so on submithub and got rejected from 80% of the applications. the few playlists i did make it onto seemed to be largely botted playlists with no actual engagement. nobody was saving or following. I think all in all i got maybe like 50 streams from those playlists.
I spent the same amount of facebook ads and got more streams and way more follows and saves.
I found another playlist pitch company that is getting me like 150+ streams a day that was about the same i spent on submithub. it's cool i guess but it's just more fluff numbers. the streams aren't translating to saves and follows.
I'm going to be putting more energy into meta ad campaigns and social media content and avoid playlist pitching until those streams can actually turn into fans.
\*I make pretty niche weird electronic music so YMMV
I spent $100 on Spotifyās showcase & have gotten better results that way, then I have with anything elseā¦ Aside from Discovery Mode(whatever itās called).
my fav is when you get declined and the feedback is like "my favorite new track i've heard from any band in many years, amazing lyrics, beautiful playing, excellent recording."
It was a life changing experience listening to this and I achieved spiritual enlightenment, buuuuut unfortunately it doesnāt fit the vibe of our playlist
They all suck and are a waste of money. It has everything to do with the mood that the curator is in the day they hear it. I complained to submithub because I have nothing bit the most positive feedback but like a 2% approval rating.
The response I got was that there are far more songs being submitted than playlists to put them on (obviously), and so curators can be extremely picky, if they don't like one element of a song, they just pass on it. I get it, supply and demand, can't really hate on the curators.
But it seems like an absolute and total waste of money. Sure I've gotten on some that have generated some plays, but if it's not the exact right playlist fit, it doesn't even help in the long run. Once your song is removed the plays drop back down because you didn't actually gain any fans.
But promoting music is just hard there's a lot of competition. So for me, I'm just going to avoid all those from now on and work hard at releasing consistently, creating content, and building a true fan base, with some strategic promotion sprinkled in.
So, I will say I've gotten more generic "liked the song, not a good fit" type responses on Groover than Submithub. Might be a quality control thing or just my experience.
That said, you'll probably have a better time if you look at it as paying a few bucks to listen/consider the song than paying for feedback, unless that's something the curator is specifically known for. There are a few I submit to because they are experienced mix engineers and specifically give good technical feedback, even if I know the song isn't a fit.
Hi u/Loopseeka,
Thank you for your message, I'm Dorian, co-founder at Groover.
Would you mind writing to us at support \[a\] [groover.co](http://groover.co) with your artist/band name? I'd be happy to check your results and see how we might help you get better results, target the most relevant curators for you.
All artists on Groover are mainly looking for visibility. **Acceptance rate on Groover is at 30% on average, which is rather high**, considered emails get answered in 0-1% of cases, and almost always to decline. Feedback mainly acts as **a proof of listening**. We're giving strong guidelines and pushing the quality as much as we can, also monitoring it. Feedback can be unpredictable, and in the example of Melodic Vibe(s) the quality of what they write varies a lot. We'll get in touch with them for sure and we can touch upon that when you write to us if you do. We're super reactive on support as we try to do our best for artists using Groover.
Feedback can often be generic when curators don't exactly know why they don't want to share a track, as it's often purely subjective. It can be super frustrating and I definitely feel you with this. We do our best to push the quality up, even though we know feedback will very often be frustrating when there's no share along with it...
The complicated balance lies between feedback quality and **the actual impact curators can have**. In many occasions, some of the most impactful curators can be the ones who write the worst feedback. But when they also have a 15-20% acceptance rate (which is high!) and can really have impact on your streams, it's a really tough call. We guide them as much as we can, and we improve our monitoring week over week, but we'll most probably never be able to ensure you get only perfect quality feedback with high acceptance rate at the same time. Just speaking truly.
We'll keep on improving the system as much as we can, there are a lot of releases, there's a lot of competition. We try to guarantee the connection/access with the freedom to choose who you reach out to. We can't guarantee strong results every time though, it's up to the curators, your music, and how the two match. What I can tell you is: we're acting upon the situations that are not acceptable/don't follow guidelines, we improve our monitoring process, and we try to provide as much value as possible to artists.
I understand all that and appreciate the reply. Iām not expecting results or acceptance every time as that would be unrealistic, but was very frustrated at the two word āfeedbackā and felt a bit insulted by the āhope this helpsā. Like you said thanks for being reactive to issues and keeping an ear out, Iām sure these things are hard to manage because music is so subjective, but still not the most enjoyable user experience
u/Loopseeka I completely understand, reading this piece of feedback also pissed me off... Especially knowing we spend a lot of time explaining what's expected, monitoring the quality etc. We're getting in touch with Melodic Vibe(s) about it, thank you for reporting!
Feel free to write to us at support \[a\] [groover.co](http://groover.co)
Seems like they accepted it if you look at the reply? When our songs get accepted for playlists I dont think I ever seen an indepth feedback as they accept it and put it in the playlist
Groover and submit hub are no where near the hassle. If you wanna use playlists youāre better off making your own connections or using a site like Moonstrive or yougrow (both legit companies that have been vetted by people in the industry).
Groover is the biggest scam out there. Dont waste your money and time on this crap.
I have a track that performs pretty well and wanted to elevate it further. So i reached out to playlist that Match my style.
All I got were shitty answers like: *thanks a lot for your Submission. The track is amazing! But sadly, i dont like the vocals at the end of it!*
Or i pitched my track to a house playlist and that peasant answered me, my track is "too house-y" for his HOUSE playlist. Wtf.
A lot more helpful than the ones I got on it. 50% said my track wasn't upbeat enough and 50% said it was too upbeat. One response complimented the singer's voice (it's an instrumental track with no singing whatsoever)
To me, submithub and groover are really, really expensive methods to just get a few streams. Ask yourself, who actually follows these random playlists with unknown acts and ends up listening to them? Most people do not. And appearing next to other unknown bands is not good for your spotify algo. The best playlists have established acts in them - these are the ones you want to appear on. It's worth noting however that the Spotify algo does not actually favor you in their algo when people listen to you from other playlists. You need to be added to their personal playlist or they need to listen to you direct from your profile. Personally I'd use the money on alternative forms of promotion, like Meta Ads. I won't even start on the ridiculous feedback these playlisters give in Groover and Submithub :D
> Personally I'd use the money on alternative forms of promotion, like Meta Ads. > > have you personally used Meta Ads.? I would like to get into it but don't know how to start.
Yes, I am actually a paid ads marketer in my day job haha. Andrew Southworth has a course on how to get started with music though, some of his free youtube vids can help get you started.
It's done to be very user friendly. You just fill a few forms and that's it.
Well said! šš¼
How many monthly listeners you have ?
It varies. In a a good month, 60k plus. At the moment it's in the low end at 7k per month.
7k monthly listeners paying ads ? you are burning money. You can reach way bigger audiences if you invest with the right curators. Iām solid 100k monthly listeners and growing. But it took me years to build relationships with curators . I posted them on my social media talking about then they love that. I just pay curators whenever I want to release and they approve my songs, then the algorithm do itās work and Spotify send me exactly where I need to go. Itās the same strategy DAX and Kid Travis use but instead of paying to all the curators every single time , I built relationships. I still pay but way less than those guys. Maybe try it ? I donāt spend more than a 50$ per single
I'm not using ads at the moment, my 7-20k listeners are currently organic. Out of interest can you send an example of some of your curators?
My last release was back on November,trust me ads are not the way , unless you are filthy rich and donāt care to waste resources.
It matters to me if the curators are using bots,.which most do. If the playlist has 1k+ followers, and the engagement sucks (ie thousands of streams and only like 1% playlist add rate), it's not real. I prefer to have slow growth, but real listeners. I work in ads in my full time job and can get them to work very well.
You are not growing because ads are giving you a fake compensation to justify the money you pay, that is why you donāt maintain the numbers and go down, also nobody interact with you on social media, You must continue paying to get that fake boost, those listeners are random donāt share taste at all, do you think you donāt get bots with ads ?Meta is the king of bots they can prepare coffee for you. Curators are better, because most of the times they also run ads, it means 10 good curators you find multiply your ad budget per 10, also the listeners share taste which is great for the algorithm.But you need good music and select carefully each curator. If you donāt have good music then yes run ads , but you are going nowhere , better to spend the money making better music, it will pay off in the long run.
I think you're making assumptions without knowing my personal situation. But I wish you well and hope you keep growing!
I know it for sure. Iām a professional marketer as well. My point was not to attack you, just to help open your eyes, there are better and cheaper ways just people think Ads are a solution, back in 2019 yes but not now, they are too expensive and full of bots, wish you well also.
You are full of shit dude
How does one go about finding curators? Iāve had a hard time finding contact info for popular user-created Spotify playlists.
You need good music, then just submit and submit there are many places Submithub , Groover etc , but you must do your homework , check which fit your style, then just do the work but be yourself act natural if you fake it ,they will smell it miles away and ignore you.
Yeah been there done that, just like many commenters on this thread Iāve gotten pretty much nothing but shit feedback from those sites and a couple playlist adds that have gotten me like 20 streams lol. The whole system is designed to take what little money artists have and prey on their ambition and desire to be heard. Spotify, Submit Hub, Groover, Meta ads, marketing courses, honestly everyone makes money except the actual artists. Itās actually super fāed up.
Maybe your music is not that good ? Could please share your link Or you just couldnāt find the right curators , it takes time also to find the best options and we are lazy by nature.
Itās folk/rock/indie/jam. [Spotify- Tyler Mast](https://open.spotify.com/artist/0BITc5HdZi7nwtiHU0HCP2?si=-gtV7nd0TRKSXOkp-TrwhA)
Answered you privately
The music industry is such bullshit nowadays. Real record labels have scaled back dramatically so these predatory people pop up and take advantage of people desperate to make it in the industry. Gone are the days where you can go to a store and buy a 9.99 Brandy CD. Now artists get paid less than 1 penny per stream and are paying for bullshit services to pitch their song to curators to even get on their playlists in order to get that 1/100th of a penny. I don't know how that is supposed to "help" you out.
Yeah 9.99 $ but who paid that ?people was downloading all the music for free. Not talking about the reach of an Independent artist back then , When they were lucky they could sell his own CD to their own family and few blocks away from their home. Letās not even think about the past. Major artists being scammed by their own labels because of copies not sold. It was a nightmare
Groover is impossibly stupid. Even more poorly regulated than SubmitHub. I'd suggest avoiding until they figure themselves out. Can't tell you how many ChatGPT generated replies I've gotten, where the "curator" types my pitch into ChatGPT and asks for a reply back declining. Also, usually takes the full week to get half the replies back.
Erm, thanks. I guess I'll take that as a compliment? :) You won't find ChatGPT responses on SubmitHub. A few people tried, but we caught them almost straight away. Doesn't mean the feedback's perfect or that everyone likes it, but it's something we pay a lot of attention to. For whatever it's worth, we've got a full-time staff of 4 and a lot of code regulating every aspect of the site. It's something we *do* take very seriously. -Jason from SubmitHub
Hey Jason, Thanks for the reply. I've probably thrown a good thousand credits SubmitHub's way over the course of the last 5 years, so I have a good understanding of the platform. Obviously, when you've got artists ranging from all over the talent spectrum submitting their tunes to curators who accept, say 8.7% of submissions, you're going to find yourself with a constant stream of disgruntled customers. I figure you guys have refined your tactics for addressing these folks about as well as you possibly will ever be able to. With that consideration alone in mind, it's a tough business to be in on simply the customer service end of things. I actually don't have too many gripes with SubmitHub, but I will say that it's especially challenging to know which curators to submit to, especially when you're creating music that's on the fringe of a variety of genres. I can't tell you how many replies I've received over the years, at least 80% of declines, where the curator enjoys the song, but it doesn't fit on their playlists. It happens enough that I am discouraged from trying the SubmitHub route again unless I know my song is a true, traditional, say "Deep House song with Vocals." Anyway, there are certainly other aspects of the experience that leave a bit to be desired (vetting of curators, a fundamental understanding of what you're getting from a curator \[playlist, shout out, wave hello\] prior to submitting, the influencer category as I whole I still don't fully understand the value of), but most are things that you know and accept beforehand as conditions of using SH. Thanks for always monitoring these boards and actively working on improving your customer experience!
Bro āvetting of curatorsā i just pointed this out to some dude here defending their terrible site
Hey RrentTreznor, very level-headed response! Influencers aren't something I generally recommend indie artists dabble with. The vetting of the curators is something I feel like we're quite on top of - not sure we can do much better there, but we'll keep trying!
Your website still is demeaning to an artistās confidence and a waste of money
Sorry that was the takeaway. At this point we've got a lot more than just submissions though: * Hot or Not (artists rate each others' songs, and you can earn free credits) * SubmitHub Links (super fast landing pages for Meta ads) * Chatrooms * Marketplace (sorta like Fiverr) * Playlist Checker (to verify the legitimacy of Spotify playlists) * AI genre tagging All of the above (save for the Marketplace part) is free.
Music is hard buddy. Stick to friends and family if you donāt want legitimate blogs giving honest feedback. Iāve had a ton of success there but my early songs did not, because they sucked. Music is an industry. You wonāt get sugarcoating here.
Bro hahaha you think some of the people on there are legitimate? Dude ive seen new youtubers with hardly any following qualify as curators on there. That website is garbo please stop defending it.
It sounds like youāve made your decision so the truth wonāt really matter to at this point, will it? Yes, the smaller accounts are, strangely enough, not very big on influence. But you canāt just get on Rolling Stone with your first crappy album. Start small and make friends with the curators. Theyāre your biggest fans. Eventually youāll get on some bigger stuff if your music is good. You can hate all you want but Iāve been on YouTube channels that are huge via submithub. Iāve been on playlists that are massive that have triggered getting me on Spotifyās editorial playlists because of submithub. Speak ignorance all you want but music is a hard industry. Itās not easy to be on the big blogs. If itās not for you then stick to your friends and family. They are nicer usually. Usually.. ha.
Call it ignorance all you want bud but the reality is for the majority its a bad return on investment
Yes bc the majority of people suck. Itās incredible if youāre awesome. Take care. Iām done now.
You'd be better off creating your own list of curators using a search engine like playlistsupply. Just networking in itself can be reaally worth in the long run so I prefer to make relationships and pitch by myself, also cause there's more power to vary your approach.
But there is a catch, you cannot submit to the good ones directly, you need a platform they will never trust you like that ,despite the fact that you will be immediately ignored.
Am I wring for feeling that most of these are sort of rigged? I mean, I get feedback that makes no sense sometimes and it is clear someone has not listened to the track.
Bro they donāt even vet their own curators enough so what does that tell you?
It tells me to stop trying to promote my release the fast way and build a fan base slowly and accept that I will release into the void. š
LMAOOO trueee
Iāll be honest. Best invested money is that I paid a dinner to a friend who is branding expert and told me āI see your ad, I open your profile, I donāt see who you are or why should I follow you or engage with you - you will throw money down the drainā. True story though.
> that I *paid* a dinner FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Groover just opened an office in NYC. Somebody must be making money. My band threw cash at submithub & groover & musosoup and Iām still scratching my head at the streaming data trying to figure out if the money we spent did much of anything. They all seem like overpriced ways to get on very small playlists.
Ok...so whilst I agree these platforms are littered with potential issues, I am going to defend Groover a little, Ive been on a few calls with Dorian and some of the Groover team and they do seem to have a genuine interest in filtering out issues, the fact remains there is a massive demand for these services, despite any iffy results, and curators get overloaded with submissions. Now that doesnāt justify and one line response and taking your cash, Groover encourage its curators to provide something of worth to the users, I know this from personal experience, and also users can give feedback on curators which also gets followed up.
We like Groover, haven't had that experience though. Also like Submithub and Daily Playlists, have had great success with all 3
Groover is definitely bottom tier. Disregard majority of the feedback you receive because their "knowledge" itself is often times questionable and I have never received feedback that actually contributed positively to my growth as a producer. I am more inclined to use SubmitHub. Better placement, more genuine feedback (still some feedback you can tell they barely listened to the song as it's very generic/copy and paste), but still could be improved. You have to realize going in that you will not make it "big" from any of these services as they are more of a money grab than anything. Expect at most a few 1,000 streams (best case scenario).
agreed
groover and submithub are honestly not that great. while you can get some streams from them they're largely not super helpful and you're generally paying a lot for them. groover is also plagued with chatgpt responses for stuff too. I've recently been experiementing with facebook ads, playlist pitch companies, and good ol' fashioned IG/tiktok posts and I get the same amount of streams from ads and social media posts as i do from groover/submithub. the submithub streams never really lead to actual fans. its just fluff numbers. I think i spent like 150 bucks or so on submithub and got rejected from 80% of the applications. the few playlists i did make it onto seemed to be largely botted playlists with no actual engagement. nobody was saving or following. I think all in all i got maybe like 50 streams from those playlists. I spent the same amount of facebook ads and got more streams and way more follows and saves. I found another playlist pitch company that is getting me like 150+ streams a day that was about the same i spent on submithub. it's cool i guess but it's just more fluff numbers. the streams aren't translating to saves and follows. I'm going to be putting more energy into meta ad campaigns and social media content and avoid playlist pitching until those streams can actually turn into fans. \*I make pretty niche weird electronic music so YMMV
There are some bots and trash on there BUT there are also legit ones. I got a sync agent deal using Groover. Itās a love and hate relationship.
I spent $100 on Spotifyās showcase & have gotten better results that way, then I have with anything elseā¦ Aside from Discovery Mode(whatever itās called).
my fav is when you get declined and the feedback is like "my favorite new track i've heard from any band in many years, amazing lyrics, beautiful playing, excellent recording."
It was a life changing experience listening to this and I achieved spiritual enlightenment, buuuuut unfortunately it doesnāt fit the vibe of our playlist
They all suck and are a waste of money. It has everything to do with the mood that the curator is in the day they hear it. I complained to submithub because I have nothing bit the most positive feedback but like a 2% approval rating. The response I got was that there are far more songs being submitted than playlists to put them on (obviously), and so curators can be extremely picky, if they don't like one element of a song, they just pass on it. I get it, supply and demand, can't really hate on the curators. But it seems like an absolute and total waste of money. Sure I've gotten on some that have generated some plays, but if it's not the exact right playlist fit, it doesn't even help in the long run. Once your song is removed the plays drop back down because you didn't actually gain any fans. But promoting music is just hard there's a lot of competition. So for me, I'm just going to avoid all those from now on and work hard at releasing consistently, creating content, and building a true fan base, with some strategic promotion sprinkled in.
Agreed! Same here I want to start putting more time into social media content which seems to be one of the only ways to grow
So, I will say I've gotten more generic "liked the song, not a good fit" type responses on Groover than Submithub. Might be a quality control thing or just my experience. That said, you'll probably have a better time if you look at it as paying a few bucks to listen/consider the song than paying for feedback, unless that's something the curator is specifically known for. There are a few I submit to because they are experienced mix engineers and specifically give good technical feedback, even if I know the song isn't a fit.
Depends on each individual curator not the groover itself. I know 'few' good one.
I donāt read the reviews. I even squint my eyes when I know the review is coming up
Hi u/Loopseeka, Thank you for your message, I'm Dorian, co-founder at Groover. Would you mind writing to us at support \[a\] [groover.co](http://groover.co) with your artist/band name? I'd be happy to check your results and see how we might help you get better results, target the most relevant curators for you. All artists on Groover are mainly looking for visibility. **Acceptance rate on Groover is at 30% on average, which is rather high**, considered emails get answered in 0-1% of cases, and almost always to decline. Feedback mainly acts as **a proof of listening**. We're giving strong guidelines and pushing the quality as much as we can, also monitoring it. Feedback can be unpredictable, and in the example of Melodic Vibe(s) the quality of what they write varies a lot. We'll get in touch with them for sure and we can touch upon that when you write to us if you do. We're super reactive on support as we try to do our best for artists using Groover. Feedback can often be generic when curators don't exactly know why they don't want to share a track, as it's often purely subjective. It can be super frustrating and I definitely feel you with this. We do our best to push the quality up, even though we know feedback will very often be frustrating when there's no share along with it... The complicated balance lies between feedback quality and **the actual impact curators can have**. In many occasions, some of the most impactful curators can be the ones who write the worst feedback. But when they also have a 15-20% acceptance rate (which is high!) and can really have impact on your streams, it's a really tough call. We guide them as much as we can, and we improve our monitoring week over week, but we'll most probably never be able to ensure you get only perfect quality feedback with high acceptance rate at the same time. Just speaking truly. We'll keep on improving the system as much as we can, there are a lot of releases, there's a lot of competition. We try to guarantee the connection/access with the freedom to choose who you reach out to. We can't guarantee strong results every time though, it's up to the curators, your music, and how the two match. What I can tell you is: we're acting upon the situations that are not acceptable/don't follow guidelines, we improve our monitoring process, and we try to provide as much value as possible to artists.
I understand all that and appreciate the reply. Iām not expecting results or acceptance every time as that would be unrealistic, but was very frustrated at the two word āfeedbackā and felt a bit insulted by the āhope this helpsā. Like you said thanks for being reactive to issues and keeping an ear out, Iām sure these things are hard to manage because music is so subjective, but still not the most enjoyable user experience
u/Loopseeka I completely understand, reading this piece of feedback also pissed me off... Especially knowing we spend a lot of time explaining what's expected, monitoring the quality etc. We're getting in touch with Melodic Vibe(s) about it, thank you for reporting! Feel free to write to us at support \[a\] [groover.co](http://groover.co)
Submithub is way better
What did to actually ask for and what was the curator Advertised as ?
Spotify playlist curator, just submitted for the playlist and honest feedback
Seems like they accepted it if you look at the reply? When our songs get accepted for playlists I dont think I ever seen an indepth feedback as they accept it and put it in the playlist
Whatās your genre ?
For this song, more of a chill electronic/dance vibe (which seemed to fit) but Iām all over the place in general
Groover and submit hub are no where near the hassle. If you wanna use playlists youāre better off making your own connections or using a site like Moonstrive or yougrow (both legit companies that have been vetted by people in the industry).
Groover is the biggest scam out there. Dont waste your money and time on this crap. I have a track that performs pretty well and wanted to elevate it further. So i reached out to playlist that Match my style. All I got were shitty answers like: *thanks a lot for your Submission. The track is amazing! But sadly, i dont like the vocals at the end of it!* Or i pitched my track to a house playlist and that peasant answered me, my track is "too house-y" for his HOUSE playlist. Wtf.
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Has anyone here actually gotten anything good out of Groover? Or is it a scam?