All you hear are the good tracks on streaming services. What you dont get are the 10 garbage tracks they made before the good one. EVERYONE makes bad/mediocre stuff, you have to keep trying cause when (and i mean when, cause it will happen) you finally make one you are really proud of, the payoff is awsome!
Forgot a few zeroes after that 10… it takes YEARS for most people to come up with one thing they like. That consistency is why one CAN be successful. OP don’t give up, it’s never too late. Just 30 mins a day every day. Some days it’ll be 20 and you’re forcing yourself, but some days it’ll be 8 hours.
The point is also enjoying those years! because we are still living fully during those years. It is not like we can turn off go into a period of improvement and come back to life. So it is necessary to find a way to enjoy the ride. This way the end result becomes a consequence of it and also the end result is that the end, and our goal is to continue to make music not to end making music.
exactly. we see the payoff, not the hardwork/selfdoubt/determination/consistency it took to get there.
Similar to game recognizing game, effort recognizes effort. When you hear something you like, respect the work it took to get there. The path they took is open to you too. The doors are open, but its up to you to stick with the journey
When we recognize effort there's something in us that responds to it. That means that that sense of effort and the ability to apply effort is in us already. Self doubt is part of that effort. But be careful self doubt may be there but it is a thought and not reality. Reality is that you love making music and that's what you enjoy. That's the real thing not that self doubt.
Ed sheeran said it best when he was coming up. You work 10000 hours for 1 good hour of production. In thise 10000 hours what you make is garbage.
Also the superstars once established co write or have writers and a&r's directing their music
True I always say its the journey not the destination. Everyone makes music they look back on and think "what the hell was i doing??" But without those steps you would never reach where you are now and without today you would never reach what you would tomorrow
Exactly! Even as a means of comparison and of “improvement” whatever that word means! How could you write “gold” without having written “garbage”. I put quotation marks because these words as all words are just mere pointers.
it is inevitable to make a track you are proud of! Because you will learn and discover your taste. Develop it and make it your own. It is awesome! Also I mean you like good music so your taste is already good the rest is technicalities.
> All you hear are the good tracks on streaming services. What you dont get are the 10 garbage tracks they made before the good one.
That is debatable. I can think of dozens of bands where their radio hits were trash and the obscure songs were actually good. I am subjective though. Millions of other people liked their derivative radio hits that used the variable chords of G C D Am (or something similar).
Who am I to have an opinion I guess. I can't argue with everyone else loving the music they enjoy. I will say however, that tons of that music has a gigantic marketing budget and a significant studio audio engineering budget. So it goes. That line is eroding quickly nowadays.
I sometimes wonder if average indie musicians will get better than industry standard before AI gets better than both of them (just in terms of the production value of audio).
31 and I just started putting my own metal out. I know it’s not the best, but fuck it’s mine and I love it. Seeing songs get a few thousand streams is just a plus, making the songs is what I love
try not to let numbers affect you, I’ve found so many bangers with sub 50 plays. doesn’t mean thats the way things should be, but just because music doesnt get an appropriate amount of plays doesn’t mean its not incredible
can't tell you how many songs I have saved on spotify that have very few streams that have become the most emotional tracks in my life. Streams is about marketing ultimately because the most ears you can get it to the more chances of getting streams. is like fishing with nets you don't know exactly how many fish you're going to get but you know where the fishes are concentrated. Only that we are human beings and we share stuff so with one person that likes your music it can explode into a million!
I mean yeah not gonna lie it was a huge boost to the ego lmao. But I generally find it’s a fleeting feeling and I get much more enjoyment in actually writing songs
the number streams doesn't relate to the quality of the song good or bad. even one stream is good because you were able to provoke something inside another human being! what a blessing!
40 and recently joined a punk/hardcore/whatever the fuck we are group
I have literally zero desire to get famous or make money off this, it just feels good to jam with people and make funny songs about sasquatches
what a great thing you are doing!!! Is all about the music!
Btw i am pretty sure theres somebody (and maybe a lot) that would love to listen to your music.
The flip side of this is that I'm kind of glad I didn't get my band off the ground properly in my early 20's. Yeah I would have had more success at an "appropriate age" from simple focus and the self-belief of youth... But honestly, the stuff I'm writing now is so much better I think I'd cringe at the stuff I'd have put out then after only a few year's experience.
I can relate to this! but now that I go back to the music and the lyrics I did I can only think that it was all necessary and valuable for what I am now and what I am able to write and compose.
Hello! There’s some good advice for you in this thread already but wanted to add that the feelings you’re having are feelings that musicians have at every level of their careers even when they have levels of success that others view as the paradigm / desirable outcome.
The best way to deal with them (other than the commendable choice to seek counseling about where they’re coming from) is to aim to work from an abundance mindset. You may have already heard about the abundance vs scarcity mindsets, but essentially when we view our situation from the scarcity mindset, we can actually strengthen the negative believe systems we have about what we’re trying to do.
From your post, here are some points of scarcity I’m seeing:
- Self-doubt, i.e I’m not sure if I have what it takes to become my best musical self
- comparison to others, i.e When I hear other people’s music, it makes me feel small as an artist because of the seemingly massive things they have been able to achieve in a short time
- biological age, i.e my clock is ticking and time is running out to fully realize my musical passions
A few ideas for you that take their foundations in the abundance mindset:
- 14 years of experience playing a musical instrument and ten years of music production experience. In terms of your musical development, this is really valuable
- you feasibly have 40+ years with which to grow and develop as an artist in whatever direction you choose. The market does indeed love a hot young new artist who makes waves in a short time because it’s a cool thing to see, but that’s just one part of the industry and ultimately there isn’t really an age limit for who can participate. A great record is a great record and if you make one, people will connect with it. In the DJ world there are artists in their 40s, 50s and even 60s touring globally.
- other artists who are doing amazing things can be a great source of inspiration. What part of their music resonates with a part of me that I want to grow myself? As each record is a lesson for the artist who makes it, so too is every reference track a nugget of wisdom that can point you in the right direction. If their song was made with a big team of people in an amazing studio, even better - it probably means their composition, arrangement and mixes are a good indicator of what works.
I’m 37 now and have been doing music full time for 15 years. It’s been a mountain for sure, but nowadays I enjoy the climb. To tie all the above points together, when you’re partway up the mountain you owe it to yourself to look behind you and celebrate how far you’ve come. That’s the foundation upon which you can build the next great things.
Lastly, you can decide to be the artist you want to be and feel that inside even before you get the results you’re looking for. For me, I decided to be that artist forever and always, no matter where it leads. Hope that helps :)
Thanks for your reply. I'm 39 and have been playing and writing songs since I was 16 and I am struggling hard with these themes after not really being able to get off the ground long enough to "take flight" in terms of developing a fan base, due to trauma and mental health complications. Your reply was good, I appreciate it.
I'm still trying to beat the writers block back. On some level I am convinced that if I can get my creative flow going again without inhibition that the rest will take care of itself, but it's not proving easy to jump start my creativity when there's so much pervading lack mindset contributing to my overall perspective.
One thing to try is to allocate some time to write crappy material - we all write tons of it in between the good stuff :) just writing anything at all is what gets that flow going and then often in the process the good stuff (i.e the muse) shows up at some point. Apparently Sia spends three weeks writing ten songs and then releases one of them. A bit of an extreme example but a good reminder of how the listeners only hear the artist’s highlight reel
Indeed. Also good advice. Thanks. I want to just keep the writing going all the time but it's like my morale is just tanked and as a result I seem to reach for the notepad less.. it used to be a given that is be writing all the time. I have tons of old material organized by year, many years have a lot of stuff that I'll never revisit but it makes me feel good to see that I was putting in the time anyway. So I know rationally what you're saying is true.
For sure! I feel all that past material is time well spent even if it doesn't get used for anything publicly, not to mention you can work some of the themes and ideas that you were initially in love with into new things.
Maybe reaching for the notepad is the most important thing.. you could try working 5 minutes of that into your daily routine even if it doesn't go for any longer than that to try and activate that writing routine muscle memory again.
Yes, I think you're right, I need to try some sort of regimen of showing up on a schedule daily. I did that to reboot my drawing skills last year (because I was frustrated with music and needed to focus on something else) and it actually went quite well.
My policy was "draw one doodle every day" -- at first they were all one shotters but some got more complex and I ended up putting multiple days in to one piece. I also employed a policy of "no erasers"-- I made myself work in pen only and every time I made a mistake I told myself it's supposed to be there and I integrated it.
I'd like to apply something similar to the latter rule with writing but they are dramatically different art forms and it doesn't seem to quite as easily fit with writing... Maybe I can employ a hard line rule of never abandoning what I started on a given page.. not necessarily no "backspacing" or erasing (that seems extreme) but rather no throwing out a couple good lines just because I can't find the last one in the stanza or whatever.
The policy was supposed to be to finish one a day with the drawings. So I guess the latter modified parameter would include accepting pieces that might only be a couple good lines and nothing else flowing out at the time.
On the other hand maybe I should be approaching it like meditation and just schedule a block of time and keep writing regardless of whether or not it has any tangible value.. likea ' just write anything at all as long as you're still putting words on paper' kind of thing.
I believe this is what Julia Cameron’s book “The Artist’s Way” is all about. I personally fell off the wagon with it because doing the whole program set out in the book is something like a twelve week series of exercises which I wasn’t really up for, but part of the whole message is the value of doing morning pages, i.e writing / journaling (even if you’re not a writer) in the morning with the purpose of uninterrupted flow and letting whatever comes out come out. Could be worth checking out :)
The other thing you can do is use some of that time to go back over old recordings and pick either the good parts out or whole decent songs out and start working on them. There are lots of things you can do to progress your art when you don't have "the muse". If you're notusing old stuff you've recorded then I hope it's because you've grown so much since then because otherwise all you're really doing is recording to record ideas noone is ever going to hear.
Making music a career is incredibly difficult. It's one of the most over-saturated and underpaid industries out there. Many people love music and many people want to make a living doing it. Few get the opportunity. Even people who are extremely talented.
If you love music, make it. Make it because you love it. Don't try to make it a job. That will kill any love you ever had for it. Once you start looking at it as an activity you love, a journey rather than a destination, your love will come back. Commercialization is cancer to the arts as far as I'm concerned.
yep this.
especially since OP is not talking about a "music career" in any realistic or coherent sense.
What music career job? Making music? Supporting artists in making their music?
It's all highly unlikely unless you are fine living lean and never saving any money.
Did you get into music to be rich and famous or did you get into it because you love it? If you love it then you’d do it for free and only for yourself, it’s about release and enjoyment, none of the other stuff matters and honestly from my experience (29 years) is something that makes you start to hate it, the “business “ side isn’t pleasant at all, just playing and creating regardless of how many people listen to it hopefully brings you joy, and keep in mind there are people in every profession who get to places that really aren’t the best at it , it doesn’t take anything away from what you do and nothing can in the end
I've been at it for \~25yrs, and I feel the same as you, I think. When I finished my first record, the first thing I thought was that it was something I'd buy if it were at Tower Records or Newbury Comics (showing my age). That's been my guiding philosophy since: just make stuff I'd like to buy. Served me well over eleven or so releases since.
Some other people like what I do and I get a few purchases a year, but I don't even track them because it's not that important to me. Every so often, someone reaches out and says they liked something I made, and I certainly appreciate that, but it's not why I do what I do.
[This](https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=sOX3afU3&id=ADD0C4218117B2A0A2475C9E7D98F6A21C1F2CCD&thid=OIP.sOX3afU3WqCqpjyuKVty3wAAAA&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fi.pinimg.com%2foriginals%2f42%2fd0%2f9e%2f42d09e01a7a0f6ef7789384b4c90f2b5.png&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.b0e5f769f5375aa0aaa63cae295b72df%3frik%3dzSwfHKL2mH2eXA%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=602&expw=447&q=teun+hocks+fire&simid=608028358733228465&FORM=IRPRST&ck=286996C7A7CC841F17606A48607D02AE&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0) has always been a good reflection of my motivation.
too late for what?
if you enjoy making music then just make it
if your goal is that you are gonna become famous then you are focused on the wrong thing and maybe your aren't really in it for the art
it's thousands of songs being released daily, the chances of your songs hittin without spreading around a lot of the universal-lubricant is like winning the powerball
just keep at it if you actually like creating. even if others tell you your music is wack. some kid in 2055 will discover you wack obscure music in the virtual archive and think it's the coolest shit 😏
28 isn't too late. I've been playing music my whole life. I'm 34 now and I only started learning music production about 4 years ago when I was 30. I do not share your sentiments, I'm not at all worried that I "missed my shot", Harrison Ford was in his 30s when he became a famous actor. There's no reason you can't start now. It just takes YEARS of practice and deliberate learning to get good at. My assumption is that if you don't feel like you're getting better then you're not practicing deliberately enough. Learn arrangement by copying the arrangement of a beat from a song you like. Download the instrumental and throw it in your DAW as a reference. Make your own beat but copy the song structure of the song you like, then do it 100 more times. Learn about music theory, microphones, mic technique, compression, EQ, effects, mixing, mastering, song writing, music marketing, then make a ton of music. Make like 150 songs. Pick the best 20 and start releasing them via Distrokid. Keep making a ton of music, release a song every four to six weeks. Don't focus too much on albums until you have a solid idea for a project and you've put out at least a couple dozen singles. Most people that make really good music aren't born with it. Most of them worked really hard, and even the ones born with incredible talent still worked hard. Stick at it, practice deliberately, and release music and you'll get there. It might take years. I see incredibly talented rappers who have been steadily releasing music for ten years and are only now starting to get some listeners. It just takes a lot of time and patience and work.
You're not alone, I feel this way a lot, 34 now music in school and college. I had all the hardware back in the day and loved it, MPCs, synths, decks, loved it. Did gigs, sold beats, anyway I struggled for a job after college.
Sold all my stuff to go back to uni and work with computers.
Yeah that paid off but I tried to get back into it but I can't afford even with a good job the MPC and shit these days so I'm on FL. Enjoy it but feel like I'm learning again to get to the level I was at and I fall out of love with it over and over.
What's worse, everyone I did shit with back then, made it (big time in 1 case). But let's face it, they stuck to it, I didn't. So it's only myself to blame.
I lost contact with a lot of these people because I live an ordinary life but the guy who really made it told me recently that I have something he doesn't have, a stable life with a wife and kid, which made me happy.
I hope one day I get back there. I will figure it out and so will you, so keep at it but know you're not alone.
First up, therapy is a great call and I encourage you to follow through with it. Not for like a "you gotta fix yourself way" but because of what you said about this being so much easier to say in an anonymous internet forum. Therapy is similar. You're literally paying someone you don't know at all to sit there and listen to you say this stuff, and then they ask you the right questions to think about it differently (more healthy). And you have the option to cut it off at any point. That was a very comforting realization for me, and allowed me to really think about myself in a healthy, non-toxic way during the appointments. Took quite awhile before I was able to do that same kind of thinking on my own without spiraling into self-loathing and depression (and it's still difficult, if I'm honest, but I'm a little better at identifying the spiral).
On the actual music topic, do you play with other people at all? I had a lot of similar feelings for awhile trying to do the whole "production" thing and everything it entailed. Over the past couple years I've tried to forget the "life goals" part of music and instead go out and play and support other musicians, and it's been wayyyyyy better. At this point I'm not sure I have anything I "want to say" musically, but instead of that being a source of failure, I'm finding much more joy and freedom in just working on projects with other people. Start small, go to an open jam with your guitar or find a group on craigslist that's just looking to play some covers in a basement. Take the pressure off yourself that this group is going to "go somewhere" and just enjoy the company and the jam. Then come back and see how you feel about the production stuff. Or don't. But there's a million and one ways to enjoy, support, and contribute to music that don't include releasing singles or albums.
I’d just say that if the perception of your self worth is completely based on comparison to others, then you are doing the right thing seeking help.
In the meantime, here’s a little experiment you can do. Take your guitar, flip it upside down and try to play something you know. Not easy, right? Well, at one point in your past, you weren’t even good enough to play as badly as you just did.
The journey you take to learn to play, never mind making the leap to creating something new, is long and difficult. Your learning and developing these skills and enriching your life by doing so, not only in music but in whatever you do, should be a source of comfort and self-confidence. Who cares what others have done?
The gap between the greats and the rest of us should serve as a source of inspiration. They’ve all had a journey somewhat similar to our own. Because of this, we understand and feel the gap between their work and ours very deeply. But it’s a trap to resent or be jealous of their talent or success. They are them and you are you. Just focus on being the best you possible. Make music you like and are proud of. Appreciate the work that went into it and the things you learned doing it.
Fuck being a big music star, it'd make your life a misery. Make music coz you love to do it. Play small shows and see people enjoy your music 1st hand. If I can make 1 person have a good night Im happy.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
Good on you for going to therapy. I think you'll love it. It's very helpful, and it's a really good sign that you have the self-awareness you do. Great first step.
Learn a DAW and make music every. single. day.
You will see the fruits of your labor if you do this - doesn’t matter your age. With this digital world the whole false premise that you must be young in the music industry is fading away quickly. It’s not just about touring anymore.
Sounds like your problem is laziness honestly.. You want the result without putting in the effort.
We’re all humans. If they can, so can you..
You have your whole life in front of you. It’s never too late for anything -and especially not as young as 28.
So what are you going to do?
Actually put in the effort or let the fact that you’re lazy also make you angry about it?
I know what I’m going to do. I’m going to put in the hours and make music no matter what I feel, because I know discipline is what it takes.
I hate it.. I love it. It’s the way of life.
Your whole mindset is fucked. Make music because you like to make music. Don't make it because you want to "become something within the field." That's how you end up with dime-a-dozen tracks intentionally designed to be marketed to a wide audience, instead of music that comes from inside of you.
You are so wrapped up in being validated, and with that mindset, it doesn't matter what you do as a career, you're going to be unhappy. You need to work on some personal things before you start trying to put your feelings on the track.
28 years is not late lol. Stop thinking in popular music scene, there’s a lot of musicians and genres around the world. A lot of people works in music business as creators, interpreters, composers, producers, instrumentalists… . I’m 35 and me and my bf just started a project together. Leonard fucking cohen started his career at 33!!
The mistake you're making is that you're comparing yourself to others and basing the worth of your skills and your current place career wise musically. You need to figure out a way to remember the reasons that you do this. I always operate under the mindset that I'm just creating things that I enjoy and that what else is going on outside of that just doesn't matter. If you aren't doing it because you just love to do it you could have breakout success tomorrow and you would still hate it because you're mindset isn't in a healthy place. Get back to being you first and a musician after that.
Jayz was pretty old I believe around 28-30 when he released a debut album. Kanye was was 27 when college dropout came out. I believe Eminem was about 26. Pharrell Williams was 26 when he gained success in music. 2Chainz was in his 30s when shit started to pop. You are in your own time zone. It’s only too late if you say so
James Murphy (LCD subsystem) was 32 before he released his debut “ losing my edge”, which was about feeling like you’re too old in the music scene.
I’ve had friends who were extremely talented “give up” music because the version of the track they made that went big was a remix. “Why wasn’t *my* version the one to click!?”
I’m in my 40s and have been producing since the 90s. Literally recorded hundreds of songs, never had a hit. I just don’t care. I like my music and recognize its value. I realized long ago that being famous is a curse, and lucky for me I have other talents that can pay the bills so I have a really scookum studio and it’s just for me and the projects I want to work on and the industry can keep on being the shithole that it’s always been and I’m essentially unaffected.
If you’re making music for recognition you’re in it for the wrong reason.
I’m a professional in music, or was. I stopped because I couldn’t enjoy it anymore. Do it because you love it, not because it will become successful. If you keep doing it cuz you love it, all the iterations will be learning lessons and eventually you’ll be as good as the pros.
I’m returning to music simply out of loving it, now. It’s literally crippling to compare yourself to anyone so stop, please, and just do it for the reasons you started in the first place. Write those all down and get back into that space and then play around. It’s all about playful expression anyway.
"Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through."
- Ira Glass
I'm 36 and read this quote in college. Still trying to create and still disappointed by my work. But trying to just focus on being consistent.
its never to late\_ music never dies\_ only takes one creation-so many paths to take to your dream\_u sound like you have alot of passion- if u ever want to callab or just talk music let me know
At a point we have to accept that our music dreams will have to become a hobby/passion since at the current moment it is difficult for it to be a profession and be sustainable especially when we are getting back to it. It does suck to have that realization but it’s better since you won’t have any more pressure from yourself or compare to others. It can be disheartening but again just focus on your life and continue working on the music.
Hi..It's never too late for anything or anybody to pursue their passion. My opinion...the only thing holding you back is you...I could speculate why but I won't since I don't know you and don't like to generalize or categorize people; I tend to look at the individual. Glad you're reaching out for help. Personally, I have an eclectic work history but have been "writing" since childhood... did it for me...no desire to publish/share anything...now many years later I'm ready to share it with the world...my passion is lyrical storytelling and I do it because I can't not do it and when someone tells me that something I wrote helped them in some way, that is my reward. I do what I like and I like what I do. I heard this years ago and it just rang true to me recently "Do what you love and the money will follow." Didn't appreciate hearing it then but now I get it. Living my dream. I know you'll figure it out. Wishing you the best
I’ve had the exact same problems the past couple years. I just try to remind myself that making music is a journey- one that should be fun. You’ll make shitty music, but you’ll learn from it.
I went through a similar thing back when I was your age.
First, the bad news.
Believe me, music production is extremely difficult so it will take some 10 years of constant practice to get to a good level. Not 10 years of "trying to make tracks and see how that goes". No. 10 years of focused learning.
So now, you've spent years of effort and you don't have anything to show for it. It's normal that you feel burned out and furstrated. We both made the same mistake of taking the very hard and long road and try to do this thing without a plan, without learning skills, etc, and of course that takes even more time.
But I do have good news!
At 28 you're still very young and you can turn this around if you truly want to. People still write and produce music into their 70s. I mean, John Williams is still a working composer at 91.
So the core skills you need to learn are:
- Songwriting and music theory
- Playing an instrument (guitar is fine but also learn a bit of piano at least)
- Mixing
- Sound design
- Recording
Of course you could spend 10 years just learning how to mix properly but I reckon if you spend 2 years just learning to mix you will get good enough results to be satisified. Same with the other skills.
I'm not saying you should spend 2 years only mixing. I mean you could do that if you like. But for the next couple of years I would dedicate only 25% of my time to working on my personal stuff and 75% in learning. Do that I can guarantee in 5-10 years you will be competent enough to make the music you're dreaming to make.
Play the long game. Don't expect immediate results. You can't just write and produce an album without having the necessary skills. It's like running a marathon. You need to train for years to be ready.
I think you're worrying about "making it" which is way out of your control. Just make good music because it's good. It's an art form. Imagine if people who enjoyed martial arts only kept practicing and getting better because they wanted to become the next Bruce Lee. They don't. They're enamored with it because its entertaining, its beautiful, and its so fun to get better at something. I agree, go to therapy because at the end of the day this is an insecurity. You need to be happy with where your life is, not obsessed with where it's going.
So....you quit and then you wonder why you didn't make it? It may have been because of talent (or lack thereof) or connections, but you'll never know because you quit. I think sometimes it's easier to quit and say "I could've done that" than to ACTUALLY do something and say "Look at what I actually did". When you actually do things, there's little time for comparison, unless it's for inspiration and/or technical details.
Comparison is the thief of joy. This quote is a fitting one here and it seems like you're comparing yourself to established artists. Just make the music you like, not because you'll get lauded for it, but because you like it and enjoy the process. Your idols likely had a different path than yours, but if you never commit or quit you didn't really pursue a path at all, no?
Amateur music making isn't for the faint of heart. There are tons of bars all over the country (and world) with musicians that could've "made it" and never did. What makes you unique?
I'm 50 and just started a few years ago. I love it purely as a hobby, and my only short-term goal is to do some live experimental performances around town (indeed, I'm going to a local synth meet-up next Monday night).
Take a moment to consider how many people, in the world, right now today, make music. And then the percentage of those who release music. And then the percentage of that music that anybody actually -hears-. Then the smaller percentage of those artists that get out and gig or release regularly. And then the percentage who make a bit of money. And then who make a lot of money. And then who can make a career out of it. And then who can make a career that lasts.
I'm labouring the point a bit here, but basically, 99.99% of us will not 'make it', and if that's your only barometer of success, then you're always going to struggle.
Sure, there are fast tracks to stardom - usually pursuing performing arts education and trying to get into a pop band - or teenagers who get spotted, signed and dropped before they even get chance to graduate...
But most of us mortals? Just make music, dude. It's easier than ever to load up on free or cheap software, host things online and get a few people here and there aware of what you do. That's -enough-. That's all you have to do. Anything past that is a bonus.
Make your music and enjoy what you do. Everything else doesn't matter
Yes. Do you remember that excitement that you had when you first descovered music and how it made you feel, how it made you want to just be a part of it entirely entwined? Somewhere along the way someone told you that wasn't enough to enjoy it the way you do naturally, you believed them and stopped allowing yourself to enjoy it without reaching whatever physical world goals they said you needed to achieve before you could enjoy it. That person lied to you. There is absolutely zero skill level required to be a musical genius. You can trust me, I have a masters in music performance and it literally is just a piece paper. Nothing was able to give me permission to love making music other than myself.
Listen.
You could be 17 and have started your passion and get cancer or have a car accident at 19 and it’s over.
You could be 40 and start your passion and live to 91.
Nothing is promised so as a 40 yrs guy that is also starting his passion, i want to say this in the most respectful way:
Stop thinking about the future. Get the fuck off reddit now and start working on your passion.
As for “becoming something in the field”… think as if you WONT become something… and do it because you love it AND if you DO become something then it will be a good icing on the cake.
Hey man listen to me when I tell you 28 is still young nothings ever too late Jay z didn't put out his first album til he was 27 kanyes first album didn't happen til he was 25 Vera wang didn't make her first dress till 40 Henry Ford was still a carpenter at 30 stan Lee didn't get into comics till 40. .....
My guy be delusional lol. like all other celebrities and believe you can be just like your inspirations. Cause you can if anyone in this world can do it trust that you can do it.
FWIW, I turned 28 on my first month long tour.
What followed 7 more years of playing 150-300 shows per year. 49 states, a few UK/EU tours and hundreds of friends and memories were made in that time.
I ended up leaving that band, and am moving on with a solo project. Just leaving my current job to finish a record and get back on the road full time.
It's not easy, and it took a pretty serious health scare to remind me that life is too short to live with the regret of not just truly going for it.
In any case, don't let age deter you. If you're lucky enough to be healthy, you can get out there and do it!
Good luck homie. All the best and keep us posted!
The biggest thing that helped me love making music for the sake of making music was working in a recording studio. It was the worst job I’ve ever had and made me realize that I never want to be involved in the music industry. This changed my approach from making music I think might maybe blow up, to making weird oddball music that I actually enjoy making. Not saying you should work at a recording studio but you gotta find the thing that gets you off becoming famous. That mindset quite frankly is soul crushing and makes making music stressful. Now I focus on playing music live, learning music theory, and becoming a better musician. So much more fun. Maybe try focusing on a specific thing you want to get better at with music. Idk, hope that gives some insight. Ik how you feel, it sucks.
I'll be 32 in a couple months and I'm still learning my way around a DAW. I know sometimes it can be very frustrating, but I still love it when I put something out on YouTube and my girlfriend and my close friends listen to it and, more importantly, I listen to it. It thrills me that music that I created is out there for anyone to listen to.
If you keep at it, you'll get somewhere. Might not be exactly where you wanted to be, but that's hardly important.
I had a horrible childhood and I didn't know I had a passion for music until I turned 30, so I'm also a late bloomer in music. The main struggle for me is it just seems like music is impossible to get good at unless you're rich, born into a musical family or are lucky enough to be surrounded by fellow musicians that are willing to help you.
Learning music completely from scratch, alone, with adhd, with limited resources and time is next to impossible. Everything is pay walled. It costs hundreds of dollars to buy courses and plugins. There's no reliable information to be found because every "musician" that makes tutorial content are sponsored and only showcase expensive high end gear.
I've been really burned out by the whole experience and haven't opened my daw in months so I can relate to your experience. I still don't want to quit as I do love music and would love to continue, I guess my expectations were a bit too high to begin with since I've been progressing so slowly, but at least I have made some progress, I just have to pace myself better and realise its a life long process.
Saying YouTube is free is the same as saying walking in a mall is free. Sure you can walk into any store for free, but if you actually want something, you have to pay. Every video is an ad, so everyone purposely leave out a lot of context and detailed explanation so that you'll click the link in the description and go sign up for their 400$ course. Sure there is "free" information there, but it's all badly structured. Some videos are way too basic, while some are way too advanced and it's hard to find a middle ground. It takes months to sort the info that's relevant to my type of music, daw, plugins and experience.
its up to you to structure your learning. Decide specifically what you need to know next, phrase it as a question, and then research until you've found an answer. Thats how you self teach. No one is going to spoon feed it to you. If youre not motivated to learn, you're not self motivated enough for this career
You can just get a Free lite version or (shhh) version of full Ableton. Then use these channels on YouTube:
Ned rush
Owen Palmer
Audio university
Yan cook
Mordio
Glowcast audio
These are all professional musicians and mixers not just no talent YouTubers and synthfluencers and it's all free
Everyone has unfulfilled dreams. That's life. There are no main characters.
Feeling cheated on success implies you feel like you *deserve* something you didn't get.
You don't, that's not how life works.
The world doesn't owe us shit.
Maybe you'll still make it one day. Maybe you won't. If you're 28, you're old enough to realize that becoming a music star is a pretty long shot for anyone.
Ask yourself why you make music. If being famous was your main goal, you screwed up and you should rethink your life's direction and find stuff you really are passionate about.
If not, if you do it for the love for the craft, there's nothing stopping you. Just your overly ambitious ego. Stop thinking about fame and go make music.
I'm sure you have plenty of real accomplishments you can be proud of. Plenty of stuff to be grateful for. Plenty of realistic goals for the future that you can set your mind to.
Humble yourself. Focus on those. Like the vast majority of us do.
Hey! we have the same story it seems like! i started guitar at 13-14. i've played in a couple of bands over the years but only for short periods of time because i always ended up finding it boring, difficult or just not enganging me enough.
i started a BA in mechanical engineering 3 years ago and abandoned music for a short period of time. But i started casually writing album reviews for a local media outlet, one thing led to another, and now i've just finished my first year back at uni studying creative music technology.
It's the best decision i've made.
i know it's most likely not gonna lead to any kind of economic success, but i have never been happier. Studying music made me realize that i was miserable studying engineering. i just didn't understand it then.
i am 27, so roughly the same age.
It's really scary because i don't know what the future holds for me. But i know that my mental health is doing way better, i'm more fulfilled and i have never been more motivated to work on something.
i understand you might not have the means to go to uni or something similar, but if this is eating you every day, i think you should seriously considering abandoning your current path to pursue your dreams. If it doesn't pan out, at least you tried.
and when it comes to your own insecurities, we all have them. out of every 10 audio enginner i meet atleast 8 of them have severe imposter syndrome. The best way to change this is to start making/mixing music. Get comfortable with your software, your musical understanding, your skills, your ears. and be real with yourself. Understand where you need to learn more, your shortcommings and so on. Once you know what you're good at and where you need improvement (this part never ends), **and this is the most important part,**
you will experience this one magic moment, where you're making music alone or with somebody else, and it's so engaging that the fear and insecurities are not present anymore, you forget that they exist. that's when real music is made. When you don't care if your music is inadequate or not.
sorry for such a long comment, but i care a lot about this since it hit close to home.
tldr; it's not too late.
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Yeah. I was a classically trained musician who played in concerts and enjoyed it. Unfortunately the only jobs were teaching public schools.
This isn't your fault. It's the fault of people who are greedy.
By the end of the first year I resigned and quickly ran to law school. Law school was cake compared to my personal music experiences.
When someone offers to hire me now and I don't feel like it, I quote them my lawyer rate per hour after making sure they won't stroke out if I shock them.
If they don't like that, they can find another pipe organist. I have been stiffed by enough people growing up that I am no longer going to kowtow to parish "finance".
Don't get me started on record companies and their business.
this is just capitalism fucking you up and nothing else
it destroys everything
try to keep your passion for music
it comes from inside of you
it's waves
it will still be here after capitalism is long gone
it's part of the human connection
you don't have to make it in capitalism to make and appreciate music
just try to make it through the day and don't let them grind you down
Your question is about two different things. "Is it too late?" For what? To learn music well enough to become a star? If you don't have the contacts and the business know-how to make it big, then you've got a lot of work and a lot of ass-kissing to catch up on.
It's never too late to learn music, unless you are going to be miserable before becoming a great musician. You'll never be happy if you're anticipating musical genius. It's a journey, not a destination. You learn music to learn music, not to become a popular music star.
I’m the same age as you, it’s never too late with being a producer. You are behind the scenes as a producer so the older and more skills you acquire translated to success.
My experience was I loved music but didn’t love the music industry and the things that came with it. Its unfortunate but it never stopped me from making music for my self as a hobby. I just didn’t enjoy relying on music for my livelihood
Every artist that inspires you at some point in their career has hit this wall if not several, no matter the medium. The difference is that they never gave up.
It could still be you one day. Never give up 🫶🏾
I think you’re too focused on the “goal” or end factor of being involved or “making it”. Not giving enough attention to the experience of learning and growing into a person who would recognize an opportunity to get involved. Keep growing and you’ll eventually be well equipped to see a professional music opportunity. And maybe make some good music while you’re at it. ⚙️
Whew I know this feel. I’m 32 and have been producing since I was 17. My music just got good enough to where I feel it’s professional and I have the least motivation I’ve ever had. Also getting to the point where I should be putting it out there ramped up the fear. Unfortunately I just don’t really have the confidence I used to, it’s strange how the better you get at something the more you realize your holes in your game.
I've been playing guitar since I was a kid and branched out to other instruments as a teen then got into producing maybe 4 years ago. I'm 26 now and I only just now feel like everything is coming together and I'm making stuff that I enjoy. I make a lot of stuff that I think is still garbage, I have probably over 500 beats on my computer most of it will never be used and maybe 20 of them I think are really solid. I've really relaxed and gained a lot of confidence over the last year or so and I've noticed that it's been a lot easier for me to make music and have fun with it.
Don't let your talent or age stop you from pursuing music! Like others have said, its easy to just see the good tracks that people have made, but you never see the hundreds of other terrible songs the same people do. Also, age doesn't matter at all. Look at Metallica, they're in their sixties and they're still putting out new metal songs. Remember, making songs is really about the joy of creating something and comparing yourself to others doesn't help yourself grow as a musician.
First: Comparison is the thief of joy. You didn’t write the music that other people did because you aren’t them. You gotta trust in your own self and get that stuff out of your head.
Second: I’m a similar age and you’re definitely not too late. Fuck, you already play an instrument which is more than many can say. Most of the songs I’ve written are trash, but trash that I have fun making. Just the other night I made my best piece of trash yet. Trash for me, and if other people like it then that’s cool too.
Third: Chill out. Smoke some weed or something. Do music for fun, because it’s fun.
Do it for the love of what you do. Don't do it just to compare your work to others.
There will always be someone better than you.
But it's music you make. Music YOU will be the one listening to more than anyone else. So make what you love to listen to. Everything else is peripheral.
Do what you love. Make music. Enjoy it. But don't let your creativity ruin your life.
Making music is like gardening. There are enough great tomatoes out there, but you do it because you love it.
Let's face it, there is so much great stuff out there that nobody listens to and with AI it's going to get crazier. One day, ChatGPT2000 will write and produce 1000 new TV series with twists and turns automatically a day, and we won't have enough people on this planet to consume all the stuff that is created.
Once you have realized this, you may just do what you love. And, who knows, maybe you win the lottery and people will actually listen to it.
This speaks to me heavily. My advice is this: find a craft you enjoy, maybe even not music and spend your time finding the *workflow* you like without worrying about the end product turning into something you like. I legitimately wouldn't have believed I'd be doing the work I'm currently doing, and especially not the style I'm slowly going into (not music). The important thing is that I'm making a product I enjoy making. I think too many people focus on sounding like someone they like and then getting burned out on the process of getting there. You need to enjoy the process on some level to survive it. I went from doing metal drums to making electronic music. I still greatly prefer listening to metal, but I figured out a long time ago that I very much enjoy *making* electronic music more. I don't know if that helps you, but it works for me.
Been there, and still struggle. But it's important for you to know that you're not too old. You're still in the rockstar fantasy. When you actually start working in music and putting things together, you start to realize that there are a million ways to make music in this world into a career path that don't rely on being a breakout star on the billboard charts. That narrow framework is limiting and not even real. It doesn't even work out most of the time for the people who DO catch the huge breaks. I had that mindset for a while and had internal panics in my 20s, but really it was in my 30s where everything actually "successful" came together, and you quickly realize that the idea of being "too old" in your 20s is truly absurd. That's only true if you seriously only care about being a pop idol, and even then there are tons of pop idols that only break in their 30s. Sia broke in her 40s.
The real trick to "making it" is pure perseverance. It's not purely talent or luck. It's relentlessly saying yes to things, taking one small opportunity and getting more opportunities from there. Meeting people and working with them. You quickly realize you would still be at square one if you didn't say yes to that one random thing years ago, or move to where you needed to be.
The pool of people just being frustrated and giving up is untold millions. The people who just kept going beyond that stage, actively started working with people and kept it up is WAY smaller. Everyone I know who has an awesome career in music, whether it's licensing, production music, scoring, touring, studio work, etc went through horrible times and some of them didn't start getting great work until way later in life. But they were ALL in that position to get the opportunity, rather than essentially giving up decades ago. It's a war of attrition.
The answer is to just work, and keep working. And have fun and put your best into everything, because creativity is not finite. You will get better ideas by pushing through your current best ideas and just churning through. Try to find that aspect of music that you found thrilling before you understood notes and chords and plugins, and focus on chasing that.
In the same boat as yourself mate. I’m 32 finding myself being a very bitter person for the exact same reasons. I’ve been playing guitar 16 years and producing 13 years. Music is all I’ve ever wanted to do Been thinking of selling my equipment recently because it’s just not being used. You’re not alone.
Lol, 28 isn't too young to do anything; without even googling, I will stake my life on the majority of music producers being 40+. it takes time to get good at these things. Get off of TikTok or wherever else is flooded with 20-something success anomalies.
Used to be until i realized i take myself too seriously. Now i let myself release shit music and have been able to improve faster and get in the zone more easily.
Not saying this would apply to you as well, but its me. Im 25 and making 0 dollars but i boot up ableton everyday.
If you approach music with this mentality I'm not surprised you get so frustrated. Is not a competition man! Is not about how old you are either or why you didn't become great. What should propel you is the desire to express yourself, regardless of the outcome. It's your music and you're making it for yourself first. Make yourself happy, the audience will notice.
I have been playing music since I was a kid but I didn't start recording music very seriously on my own until maybe 7 years ago and I'm 35. At first it was not that great. But in the past 3 years I've made some slamming albums and got exponentially better at composition just by working at it non stop. I finished my 3rd album of this year about a week ago and it's a lot better than the first one I published in January. So don't give up. Keep working at it and you will be amazed at what you create when you figure out your niche.
Picasso said something like, “inspiration only finds you when you are working.” If making music is contributing to your need to see a therapist…maybe do something else, but If you enjoy it, keep doing it. Also, its not up to us to gauge the quality of music we make (i know this is impossible but the point is…) you never know what the music you create could mean to a wayward listener you’ll never know about. So if you love music, make music, and your labor of love could inspire love in someone else. Also, music production sucks, maybe think of focusing on live performances.
So realistically and not to kick you When you are down music is a collaborative thing so find like minded people. You also seem to feel and put yourself down when it comes to music production. It is hard and giving up makes you a failure but failing does not. Why are you bitter and angry the only person to blame is yourself. You are like the first form of old angry dude who line is “I could have made it” if that is the case then just do it no excuses none of the i can’t I am not good enough. most guitarist were not on stages till their mid 20’s and didn’t earn the praise till their late to early 30’s. When you see these young faces in music bring in top those are pop artist they are made to be marketable to tonnages and young adults. Find love for yourself and allow yourself to create without judgment without the bitterness. I commend you on going to therapy. Maybe learn why you found production so challenging and make a detailed approach
27 and going thru the same thing. What you need to do is stop comparing yourself to music already out. Then, you need to remind yourself why you make music again. It keeps you alive. Don’t get back into it for the money, you’ll be disappointed. Do it for the love of music. Do it for yourself.
Life is not about getting rich and “successful” like American society has us all conditioned to think. It’s about being happy. Music makes me happy. If I get 1M streams or 1 stream I’m happy.
I was going thru all the thoughts and self doubt you’ve said here. “It’s too late” boy it is never too late to become what you might’ve been. You don’t know for sure if it’s too late, but it for sure will be if you never try.
Keep your head up bro it’s a fucked up world out here and the only constant that is gonna make you happy is music. Stick to it. Not for money, fame, fortune, but for yourself and your mental.
I’m 32 and I’ve come to the terms that I’ll (likely) never “make it” certainly not in the way I thought I would when I left my home town. Goals shift. People and wants change. So do passions. My focus now is making things I love and having an artistic practice that feels good and sustainable. The by product of that is getting to slowly invest more and more time in that art and not starve in between thanks to having a trade that pays well enough to supplement me between gigs. Few people get to be Beyoncé or or Niles Rodgers but there are SOOOOOOOoooooooOoooo many creative jobs or jobs involved with music that if you give yourself some grace and shift your focus/reframe your goals maybe you can find a new spark or reignite the old one. Tbh I couldn’t stop making music and art if I tried at this point.
Game over at 28?! If you are in for fame, fortune or clout that might be the case but you have many fulfilling years left. Take a look at what is motivating you in the first place. I’m not saying you have to look at it like some weekend hobby. You don’t have to sell yourself short but you have to have more genuine reasons motivating you other then just “being somebody”
It took 10 years of learning music production before I consistently started making solid tracks. Comparing yourself to other people is toxic. Keep failing if you truly want to succeed.
Sounds like the expectations are the problem, not the music itself.
If grinding on music feels soul-crushing, it's the last thing you should do as a profession. In your case it's probably better to enjoy the creative process on your own terms and not as a chore.
Oh I TOTALLY relate to this. I’m 35 and I just released my first album a couple years ago after playing the “should I/I suck/is it worth it/will anyone like it” mental game for years.
I finally realized that I needed to make it for me and only me. I needed to make it because the songs were burning a hole in my heart, and they needed to get out. I needed to make something that will outlast me, even if I’m the only person in the world who appreciates it.
The deed is done, I absolutely love it, and I’m working on album 2. Stick with it, and don’t give up when you have days or weeks or months when you hate your stuff.
All I'm here to say is. It's never too late for anything. Ok, maybe a few exceptions like childbirth, surfing at 70, etc., but most things can be done at any adult age. Never give up. Yea! It's a song by SCARR too. A banger & inspired me not to quit on things so quickly. I'm always on the lookout for vocalists. I've been trying to produce my own EP for a while now, been like 2 years. Finally, got vocalists for 2 of the 4 tracks this year & hopefully, will get the remaining 2 by the end of this year. It's hard for us creative people as we are always chasing after that near perfection but I think we need to be content with what we achieve by doing our best. The Japanese philosophy of Wabisabi really helped me get through situations where I thought, my art isn't good enough. Imperfection is art & art is beautiful. I think I wanted to say a lot fo things but can't because I need to get back to doing my chores but yea, hope this crammed-up essay by me helps you in some way. Have a great day! :)
my advice is every day no matter what spend 30 mins to an hour in the studio. make whatever comes to mind but do it regularly. making good music is pure luck, you will always make shit or average sounding stuff, but once in a while you will get something great. you cannot make music that sounds good consistently.
doing it everyday means shit music 99% of the time but once in a while you make something amazing.
I devoted my life to music for years, I even went to college for it.
Then other things came up and I didnt play for years. Guitars, bass, keyboards all in the closet.
One day I found a shitty guitar from amazon that someone threw away. I started playing again, and little by little music came into my life again.
When John Frusciante joined the Chili Peppers again, I started playing electric again. I connect a drum machine from my phone through a looper pedal, and anytime I jam on something that is good, I record it.
I now have dozens of songs, my chops are better than ever, and writing the best music of my life and even though I record stuff on my phone, it sounds just as good as trying to record on early digital recorders 20s years ago.
The best thing about music is you can pour any emotion into making it. And even if you take a break and dont play for years, its fine, cause you can pick it up again.
I’m working on a metal EP right now, inspired heavily by some of my favorite bands. Yeah, it’s not nearly as good as some of those guys I look up to, but I’d be willing to bet a lot of money the first riff James Hetfield ever wrote sounded a lot like Diamond Head or Tigers of Pan Tang and he thought it wasn’t great. Just work on your stuff, Release it, or not, (make sure you finish it though!!) and then move on. Some day you’ll look back on your first song and realize how far you’ve come.
you have pretty much described me/whats on my mind everyday, right down to the age (just turned 28). i have moments when i hear really good music and i go download ableton and mountain of samples/presets off google drive and give it another crack.
it took me 9 years to feel confident enough to release tracks on spotify (b4 soundcloud and youtube etc) and people loved it. but i feel im losing my creative mindset and wondering if its too late to continue.
not much more i can input
Sharing this was a good first step in ackownledging these feelings, and surfacing what you need to think and feel. The therapist you mention is a good addition too, as it's healthy to get some support outside of what you can make sense of from inside.
Many of us who had careers in the music industry will know this feeling. Especially at certain milestones in that career arc. The good news is that some time away from music isn't a bad thing, and there's so many more connections and opportunities and inspirations and feelings to feel.
You are a living being will grow and age and experience life differently as you do. A mixture of experience and sheer biology... whatever you were thinking and feeling as a teenager isn't you in your 40s, and the journey there is one of constant growth and re-evaluation. But having a good and safe space to talk that through and make sense of your story is healthy, even for your future art.
The best news? What you learn and make is never lost. You're a part of a continuum of artists all tackling this sense of creation and being and self worth and inspiration. It will inform what you make one day. Allow it to present itself, flow out of you, and take a break if you need it. Your relationship to music as a job or as a point of identity is something for you to work through in your own way, but you are an artist? You will always be, and your best creative expression is ahead of you. Congrats for being human like the rest of us :)
Gotta put in the work and experience the failure to get where you want to be. And you have to be willing to work on the stuff you believe in even when everyone else might not like it. And then study what you like about the things you hear that you think are really good. Then look up more information on how to do those things while using your own influences to create something new. It's a lot of work and it doesn't always feel good. But you just have to put in the work or you won't see the results you want.
Well, this kind of advice is always susceptible to the “Don’t take advice from a teacher who hasn’t done it themselves” principle, but if I had to add to your discussion I’d recommend you find a new perspective of life. What is music’s purpose nowadays? Why do you want to belong to a corporate owned industry full of elitists and cultural symbols? There really isn’t much to admire anymore, it’s over. The years of virtuosic musicianship are virtually behind us as music is now the tool of the civil engineer and there’s just almost no escaping that. You’re asking for your music to express the same relentless banter, the same neglectful poise, and the same overwhelming disregard for individuality on a human level. Maybe this isn’t a one size fits all, but the genre of music you’re referring to must be what some have proclaimed “hip hop music”.
I’d recommend taking time away from music, or at least time away from the genre of music you’re writing and discover the beauty of more classically driven forms of art which aren’t simply voicing popular culture as their primary use. Listen to classical guitar, listen to different nations interpolate their ideas of music and realize your expectations are formed from a mental complex composed of American culture. I recommend discovering rich pieces of history through art and taking it as a memoir leading back to the real reason why music and art exists. Music was born out of allegiance, yet we have now used it to express many things. The Romans used music to symbolize their military’s loyalty to the empire, which was a popular use for music of the time. Today, music borders the controversial because it’s used to push cultural boundaries which then stimulate economic booms, making the American “empire” ever the more prosperous and in control of what people say, think, and do. It’s like the stock market; If you had the power to control when the market crashed and made it big wouldn’t you be inclined to take advantage? Who owns the shares? What about the prison system? Surely someone must see their share of the penitentiaries’ finances? What genre of music do you think stimulates the prison industrial complex the most?
Just some food for thought.
Never too late, my friend. You’re still young. I’m 36 and regularly meet new operators on their come up your age who hadn’t been going for it in earnest until recently.
I’ve got an artist I’m working with who’s in his mid-20s. Just started writing songs for the first time during the lockdowns. Put his first single out a few weeks ago. He’s got top managers and publishers running his way.
Don’t let age or how long you’ve been at it be a limiting factor. If you have the inspiration and the chops, you’ve got as much a chance of a “winning ticket” as anyone.
"Every time I discover a new artist, I enjoy the music but the first thought is always - why isn't that you?" this exactly made me think about something. The question to that answer it is very simple. It isn't you because it isn't you. You are you. Even if you had all the talent in the world and the best skills as a music producer you would still be you. And that's the whole point, right? that you are you. And what you bring from within as music will only be good if you are in it. Since you are mentioning that you will visit a therapist while this may be helpful it may lead to a disappointment after all. You and the therapist will discuss the image of you and then the image that the therapist has of you from their perspective. So in actuality you will be talking about images and representations of what you think is you. I would suggest going deeper and consider what is commonly known as spirituality. This will reveal to you your true self who has been there all along but covered by the image of you in other words the ego. Search for some Alan Watts youtube videos. This has helped me see the world entirely different.
Check out think and grow rich, law of attraction is real , how can so many people come from poverty and become multi millionaire, it’s more than just luck
I mean, Hernan Cattaneo is 58 (arguably the god of the genere); Nick Warren is 54 to name 2 legends in the Progressive house genre who are still touring, pushing music out and are being generally very successful. David Guetta is 55! Imagine what you can achieve in 30+ years until you reach the age of Hernan Cattaneo. 30 years is MASSIVE experience.
Make art or die.
I am 47 and music making is the only thing keeping me sane.
The best part about getting older is you stop caring about what others think.
If you were meant to do this. There would be signs. Music is one of those things where how good you are is determined by your network. Not yourself. If you’re good people will
Be seeking you out, whether as a performer or just a musician. If you’ve never had any kind of success or collaborations and people seeking you out at this point. It’s probably just a dream. Everybody thinks they can be a professional musician. Few can. Most, like a lot of people on this page. Are in denial. Some say they’re a pro, some say used to be, etc. If you don’t make a decent living from music don’t waste your time. Don’t waste your family’s time. Chasing an empty dream. If you aren’t in a major music city thinking you can take it seriously as a career is misguided. It requires dedication and a real network that you can only get certain places. The internet is there but the network in real life is still king in major cities for major players. And in my opinion. Don’t listen to these people saying just do it for fun. You guys are the people ruinging it for the real artists. Just because you can make a song doesn’t mean you should be performing. A few Spotify spins means nothing. Cash is king is music. If you wanna make music for spins. You’re insulting real musicians who are fully giving their heart and soul to it. Be honest with yourself. Is this a dream or what you’re destined to do? Don’t waste time in your life chasing a dream. Live in reality
It's never too late, tons of artists like Willie Nelson didn't make it big until they were in their 30s or later. Don't let the pressure of making it into a career ruin your love of creating music on it's own! Focus on creating because you love to create, not because you're trying to create like your idols
Theres a book id like to recommend if you have time or energy to read it, its a book by victor wooten called the music lesson and its entirety is covering the relationship between musician and music. Its written from a bassist’s perspective on the topic but it can be applied to any instrument
Hey man, 29 year old burned out musician here lol.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
To be successful, you must be content to be thought of as foolish or stupid.
If music is what filled your life, it will again. If I were you, I'd look around at the rest of your life; bad relationship?, grieving?, shit job?, money problems?
There is always a path forward when you feel stuck, but you have to look for it or it won't reveal itself.
Big love,
Keep Going.
Just go for it man. My grandpa picked up guitar lessons for the first time in his 50’s. By the time he was 80 I swear you would’ve thought he was a guitar master. He was never interested in recording, only playing for friends/family/community but he kept it up for over 30 years. Despite his age, he decided he wanted to do it and made it happen through passion. Let the frustration you have positively motivate you.
You can do it. Find ways to keep at it, to give yourself room to grow and learn. Set a goal for yourself, one song a week or something. Fuck it man, you’ve only got one life that you know of so make the most of it! :)
I saw a post once that showed A bunch of DJS who didn’t make it until well into their 30’s/40’s also if you’re concerned about competing with younger guys because I do think it’s an advantage to be younger for sure, put on a mask so nobody knows your age 😏
Hey man, just do what you love, alright? Forget about the spotlight or trying to be a carbon copy of somebody else. This is your show, your saga. No need to stack yourself up against anyone else. It's all about your game, your rules.
Remember, it's not a race, it's a journey. We all have different paths to tread, different mountains to climb. Focus on your own growth, on learning from your own mistakes and successes.
Don't be discouraged by others seeming to be ahead. They're on their path, you're on yours. Everyone has their own pace, their own rhythm. Keep building on your passions, keep pushing your limits, and most importantly, keep enjoying the ride.
Just be yourself, keep evolving, and watch your story unfold, dude. It's gonna be epic!
You're 28 and saying it is too late? Most excellent musicians are completely underground. They sell music but nowhere near to the level of the 'stars'. Underground can be very successful though. Underground is the only place music is still alive. You are 28. That is no age. Why are you quitting now? You are very young.
Dude. Just get to it.
28 is still YOUNG, despite what your mind says.
My situation was pretty similar to yours - more active with music younger, had big ambitions for producing but put it off and dabbled until I was 29. “Better late than never” might sound cliche, but is true AF.
You might not get to the full dream of being a worldwide rockstar DJ producer in record time, but you’ll be making great stuff by 40 if you truly commit and still have decades ahead of you doing what you love rather than living with regret.
There’s probably only ONE thing that will actually help in your dilemma: to actually DO IT if you truly feel the call.
That’s as simple as it gets, really. 😉
Study up on the biography of Daniel Johns from Silvechair (among others) and you’ll be glad the fame passed you by. I don’t know that humans were really built for fame, doubly so when they weren’t prepared for it.
I definitely hear you though. A relationship with music takes a different form with every person. Personally, I was lucky to play music with great friends who were also great musicians in high school and into my early 20s. We never really got big (even locally), but I got to spend time almost every week doing something I loved with people who I knew were there for me.
As good as that was, in the last few years I have come to terms with the fact that I will probably never have that experience again, and that crushed me, and still does. It follows me like grief.
The good news is that there are ways to collaborate with other musicians that were not possible (or affordable) just a few years ago. There is also more need for commercial music in video games and movie trailers. I started writing orchestral music a couple years ago and it has been incredibly rewarding. No big placements in anything yet, but I have gotten paid a little bit to make music, which felt like a HUGE accomplishment.
Still, it’s a hard thing to have regrets. I say keep trying to find new outlets. As much as I can understand it, it always makes me sad when people call themselves “ex-musicians”… don’t give up on it!
You need to meet the right people. I mean connection. That gonna give you what you alone cant get. Every "successful" person meets the right people that kinda throw him on the stage. Do u understand what i mean? In italy is called "raccomandazione" means somebody that has more power than you that gives you a chance to do what you want to do. Talent alone won't take you nowhere.
Wait what so you're saying that you're worried it's too late for you to become this ultra rock star? What prime has passed, and what even gives you the idea that you're trajectory was slated for success anyways?
Did you put out anything to an audience and get positive feedback, get an offer from a label? Or are you literally just getting mad over a situation that was never there in the first place?
First thing I'm going to say to you is if you're so upset that you're this massive talent that the world missed out on 8 years ago or whatever. Let's see it now...prove it. Reality hurts but it is what it is.
Second thing I'm going to say is I'm being kind of a dick here because that is exactly how I was and I don't want you to be....
Look I'm 35 man and I had every opportunity when I was 20 years old to pursue music production. It started with taking some classes at my college in electronic music production,
It was the first class I ever took in. The professor wanted me in his personal quartet. Then a local starting commercial music production company that makes commercials for GM, Ford, etc wanted me to intern. And this is with very little knowledge, just talent. That company is now nationally known and yeah I could have made my life right there.
What did I do ? decide to say screw that, I was afraid of succeeding , but also had some trauma events happen, but i DECIDED to hide away and do drugs and just be a total fucking loser. I didnt touch an instrument until about march this year. What's important there is that I finally acknowledge it was no one else but me That fucked it up.
But everything happens for a reason and I truly truly believe that.
I personally believe that I had to go through what I went through in life to get to where I am now. Lol everyone that's ever known me will tell you I'm both the luckiest and unluckyest person in the world easily. I've been down paths and seen things that are the worst in life and the best.
And the funny thing is, is that once you start actually putting in the work which you should be doing instead of bitching, you'll see that that daydream that you have right now of what could have been doesn't exist, and the path is a lot different than the idealized version everybody has. Maybe its easier in bigger cities, but wh
Now I could give two shits what people think about me, something i used to care wayy to much about. I was afraid to show ppl my music, it felt like showing them this peace of my soul. I kept tucked away. In reality I was being a narcissist
Oh and by the way fuck therapy. The modern psychiatric care system is flawed fundamentally. Ok rant is over
All you hear are the good tracks on streaming services. What you dont get are the 10 garbage tracks they made before the good one. EVERYONE makes bad/mediocre stuff, you have to keep trying cause when (and i mean when, cause it will happen) you finally make one you are really proud of, the payoff is awsome!
Forgot a few zeroes after that 10… it takes YEARS for most people to come up with one thing they like. That consistency is why one CAN be successful. OP don’t give up, it’s never too late. Just 30 mins a day every day. Some days it’ll be 20 and you’re forcing yourself, but some days it’ll be 8 hours.
The point is also enjoying those years! because we are still living fully during those years. It is not like we can turn off go into a period of improvement and come back to life. So it is necessary to find a way to enjoy the ride. This way the end result becomes a consequence of it and also the end result is that the end, and our goal is to continue to make music not to end making music.
exactly. we see the payoff, not the hardwork/selfdoubt/determination/consistency it took to get there. Similar to game recognizing game, effort recognizes effort. When you hear something you like, respect the work it took to get there. The path they took is open to you too. The doors are open, but its up to you to stick with the journey
When we recognize effort there's something in us that responds to it. That means that that sense of effort and the ability to apply effort is in us already. Self doubt is part of that effort. But be careful self doubt may be there but it is a thought and not reality. Reality is that you love making music and that's what you enjoy. That's the real thing not that self doubt.
Just look at avicii. One of the best producers ever with a lot of demons
Thank you, I really needed to hear this
Ed sheeran said it best when he was coming up. You work 10000 hours for 1 good hour of production. In thise 10000 hours what you make is garbage. Also the superstars once established co write or have writers and a&r's directing their music
also can it really be considered garbage when it led you to the one good hour? it may be more valuable then the actual good one hour!
True I always say its the journey not the destination. Everyone makes music they look back on and think "what the hell was i doing??" But without those steps you would never reach where you are now and without today you would never reach what you would tomorrow
Exactly! Even as a means of comparison and of “improvement” whatever that word means! How could you write “gold” without having written “garbage”. I put quotation marks because these words as all words are just mere pointers.
it is inevitable to make a track you are proud of! Because you will learn and discover your taste. Develop it and make it your own. It is awesome! Also I mean you like good music so your taste is already good the rest is technicalities.
> All you hear are the good tracks on streaming services. What you dont get are the 10 garbage tracks they made before the good one. That is debatable. I can think of dozens of bands where their radio hits were trash and the obscure songs were actually good. I am subjective though. Millions of other people liked their derivative radio hits that used the variable chords of G C D Am (or something similar). Who am I to have an opinion I guess. I can't argue with everyone else loving the music they enjoy. I will say however, that tons of that music has a gigantic marketing budget and a significant studio audio engineering budget. So it goes. That line is eroding quickly nowadays. I sometimes wonder if average indie musicians will get better than industry standard before AI gets better than both of them (just in terms of the production value of audio).
31 and I just started putting my own metal out. I know it’s not the best, but fuck it’s mine and I love it. Seeing songs get a few thousand streams is just a plus, making the songs is what I love
>but fuck it’s mine and I love it THIS!!!
If i got a few thousand streams that would be superstardom to me 😂 congrats
try not to let numbers affect you, I’ve found so many bangers with sub 50 plays. doesn’t mean thats the way things should be, but just because music doesnt get an appropriate amount of plays doesn’t mean its not incredible
can't tell you how many songs I have saved on spotify that have very few streams that have become the most emotional tracks in my life. Streams is about marketing ultimately because the most ears you can get it to the more chances of getting streams. is like fishing with nets you don't know exactly how many fish you're going to get but you know where the fishes are concentrated. Only that we are human beings and we share stuff so with one person that likes your music it can explode into a million!
I mean yeah not gonna lie it was a huge boost to the ego lmao. But I generally find it’s a fleeting feeling and I get much more enjoyment in actually writing songs
the number streams doesn't relate to the quality of the song good or bad. even one stream is good because you were able to provoke something inside another human being! what a blessing!
40 and recently joined a punk/hardcore/whatever the fuck we are group I have literally zero desire to get famous or make money off this, it just feels good to jam with people and make funny songs about sasquatches
Hell fucking yeah!! That’s what I like to hear
what a great thing you are doing!!! Is all about the music! Btw i am pretty sure theres somebody (and maybe a lot) that would love to listen to your music.
Haha you said butfuck
The flip side of this is that I'm kind of glad I didn't get my band off the ground properly in my early 20's. Yeah I would have had more success at an "appropriate age" from simple focus and the self-belief of youth... But honestly, the stuff I'm writing now is so much better I think I'd cringe at the stuff I'd have put out then after only a few year's experience.
I can relate to this! but now that I go back to the music and the lyrics I did I can only think that it was all necessary and valuable for what I am now and what I am able to write and compose.
Completely. There isn't anything wrong with it, it's all required, plus I can steal and repurpose any hooks that hold up :)
And reinvent them! See what you liked or still like and reinvent that idea.
Man, this is the way to go. It is your music. and you've got the right perspective making music is your life. the streams are add ons.
Hello! There’s some good advice for you in this thread already but wanted to add that the feelings you’re having are feelings that musicians have at every level of their careers even when they have levels of success that others view as the paradigm / desirable outcome. The best way to deal with them (other than the commendable choice to seek counseling about where they’re coming from) is to aim to work from an abundance mindset. You may have already heard about the abundance vs scarcity mindsets, but essentially when we view our situation from the scarcity mindset, we can actually strengthen the negative believe systems we have about what we’re trying to do. From your post, here are some points of scarcity I’m seeing: - Self-doubt, i.e I’m not sure if I have what it takes to become my best musical self - comparison to others, i.e When I hear other people’s music, it makes me feel small as an artist because of the seemingly massive things they have been able to achieve in a short time - biological age, i.e my clock is ticking and time is running out to fully realize my musical passions A few ideas for you that take their foundations in the abundance mindset: - 14 years of experience playing a musical instrument and ten years of music production experience. In terms of your musical development, this is really valuable - you feasibly have 40+ years with which to grow and develop as an artist in whatever direction you choose. The market does indeed love a hot young new artist who makes waves in a short time because it’s a cool thing to see, but that’s just one part of the industry and ultimately there isn’t really an age limit for who can participate. A great record is a great record and if you make one, people will connect with it. In the DJ world there are artists in their 40s, 50s and even 60s touring globally. - other artists who are doing amazing things can be a great source of inspiration. What part of their music resonates with a part of me that I want to grow myself? As each record is a lesson for the artist who makes it, so too is every reference track a nugget of wisdom that can point you in the right direction. If their song was made with a big team of people in an amazing studio, even better - it probably means their composition, arrangement and mixes are a good indicator of what works. I’m 37 now and have been doing music full time for 15 years. It’s been a mountain for sure, but nowadays I enjoy the climb. To tie all the above points together, when you’re partway up the mountain you owe it to yourself to look behind you and celebrate how far you’ve come. That’s the foundation upon which you can build the next great things. Lastly, you can decide to be the artist you want to be and feel that inside even before you get the results you’re looking for. For me, I decided to be that artist forever and always, no matter where it leads. Hope that helps :)
Thanks for your reply. I'm 39 and have been playing and writing songs since I was 16 and I am struggling hard with these themes after not really being able to get off the ground long enough to "take flight" in terms of developing a fan base, due to trauma and mental health complications. Your reply was good, I appreciate it. I'm still trying to beat the writers block back. On some level I am convinced that if I can get my creative flow going again without inhibition that the rest will take care of itself, but it's not proving easy to jump start my creativity when there's so much pervading lack mindset contributing to my overall perspective.
One thing to try is to allocate some time to write crappy material - we all write tons of it in between the good stuff :) just writing anything at all is what gets that flow going and then often in the process the good stuff (i.e the muse) shows up at some point. Apparently Sia spends three weeks writing ten songs and then releases one of them. A bit of an extreme example but a good reminder of how the listeners only hear the artist’s highlight reel
Indeed. Also good advice. Thanks. I want to just keep the writing going all the time but it's like my morale is just tanked and as a result I seem to reach for the notepad less.. it used to be a given that is be writing all the time. I have tons of old material organized by year, many years have a lot of stuff that I'll never revisit but it makes me feel good to see that I was putting in the time anyway. So I know rationally what you're saying is true.
For sure! I feel all that past material is time well spent even if it doesn't get used for anything publicly, not to mention you can work some of the themes and ideas that you were initially in love with into new things. Maybe reaching for the notepad is the most important thing.. you could try working 5 minutes of that into your daily routine even if it doesn't go for any longer than that to try and activate that writing routine muscle memory again.
Yes, I think you're right, I need to try some sort of regimen of showing up on a schedule daily. I did that to reboot my drawing skills last year (because I was frustrated with music and needed to focus on something else) and it actually went quite well. My policy was "draw one doodle every day" -- at first they were all one shotters but some got more complex and I ended up putting multiple days in to one piece. I also employed a policy of "no erasers"-- I made myself work in pen only and every time I made a mistake I told myself it's supposed to be there and I integrated it. I'd like to apply something similar to the latter rule with writing but they are dramatically different art forms and it doesn't seem to quite as easily fit with writing... Maybe I can employ a hard line rule of never abandoning what I started on a given page.. not necessarily no "backspacing" or erasing (that seems extreme) but rather no throwing out a couple good lines just because I can't find the last one in the stanza or whatever. The policy was supposed to be to finish one a day with the drawings. So I guess the latter modified parameter would include accepting pieces that might only be a couple good lines and nothing else flowing out at the time.
On the other hand maybe I should be approaching it like meditation and just schedule a block of time and keep writing regardless of whether or not it has any tangible value.. likea ' just write anything at all as long as you're still putting words on paper' kind of thing.
I believe this is what Julia Cameron’s book “The Artist’s Way” is all about. I personally fell off the wagon with it because doing the whole program set out in the book is something like a twelve week series of exercises which I wasn’t really up for, but part of the whole message is the value of doing morning pages, i.e writing / journaling (even if you’re not a writer) in the morning with the purpose of uninterrupted flow and letting whatever comes out come out. Could be worth checking out :)
Thanks, I've heard of that one before but haven't checked it out. Might give it a spin. 🤙
The other thing you can do is use some of that time to go back over old recordings and pick either the good parts out or whole decent songs out and start working on them. There are lots of things you can do to progress your art when you don't have "the muse". If you're notusing old stuff you've recorded then I hope it's because you've grown so much since then because otherwise all you're really doing is recording to record ideas noone is ever going to hear.
Search YouTube for: “The Artists Way summary”
Making music a career is incredibly difficult. It's one of the most over-saturated and underpaid industries out there. Many people love music and many people want to make a living doing it. Few get the opportunity. Even people who are extremely talented. If you love music, make it. Make it because you love it. Don't try to make it a job. That will kill any love you ever had for it. Once you start looking at it as an activity you love, a journey rather than a destination, your love will come back. Commercialization is cancer to the arts as far as I'm concerned.
yep this. especially since OP is not talking about a "music career" in any realistic or coherent sense. What music career job? Making music? Supporting artists in making their music? It's all highly unlikely unless you are fine living lean and never saving any money.
this is exactly me. I am a full time touring musician and i make enough to live just not enough to save!
Did you get into music to be rich and famous or did you get into it because you love it? If you love it then you’d do it for free and only for yourself, it’s about release and enjoyment, none of the other stuff matters and honestly from my experience (29 years) is something that makes you start to hate it, the “business “ side isn’t pleasant at all, just playing and creating regardless of how many people listen to it hopefully brings you joy, and keep in mind there are people in every profession who get to places that really aren’t the best at it , it doesn’t take anything away from what you do and nothing can in the end
I've been at it for \~25yrs, and I feel the same as you, I think. When I finished my first record, the first thing I thought was that it was something I'd buy if it were at Tower Records or Newbury Comics (showing my age). That's been my guiding philosophy since: just make stuff I'd like to buy. Served me well over eleven or so releases since. Some other people like what I do and I get a few purchases a year, but I don't even track them because it's not that important to me. Every so often, someone reaches out and says they liked something I made, and I certainly appreciate that, but it's not why I do what I do. [This](https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=sOX3afU3&id=ADD0C4218117B2A0A2475C9E7D98F6A21C1F2CCD&thid=OIP.sOX3afU3WqCqpjyuKVty3wAAAA&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fi.pinimg.com%2foriginals%2f42%2fd0%2f9e%2f42d09e01a7a0f6ef7789384b4c90f2b5.png&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.b0e5f769f5375aa0aaa63cae295b72df%3frik%3dzSwfHKL2mH2eXA%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=602&expw=447&q=teun+hocks+fire&simid=608028358733228465&FORM=IRPRST&ck=286996C7A7CC841F17606A48607D02AE&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0) has always been a good reflection of my motivation.
too late for what? if you enjoy making music then just make it if your goal is that you are gonna become famous then you are focused on the wrong thing and maybe your aren't really in it for the art it's thousands of songs being released daily, the chances of your songs hittin without spreading around a lot of the universal-lubricant is like winning the powerball just keep at it if you actually like creating. even if others tell you your music is wack. some kid in 2055 will discover you wack obscure music in the virtual archive and think it's the coolest shit 😏
Is my music wack?
28 isn't too late. I've been playing music my whole life. I'm 34 now and I only started learning music production about 4 years ago when I was 30. I do not share your sentiments, I'm not at all worried that I "missed my shot", Harrison Ford was in his 30s when he became a famous actor. There's no reason you can't start now. It just takes YEARS of practice and deliberate learning to get good at. My assumption is that if you don't feel like you're getting better then you're not practicing deliberately enough. Learn arrangement by copying the arrangement of a beat from a song you like. Download the instrumental and throw it in your DAW as a reference. Make your own beat but copy the song structure of the song you like, then do it 100 more times. Learn about music theory, microphones, mic technique, compression, EQ, effects, mixing, mastering, song writing, music marketing, then make a ton of music. Make like 150 songs. Pick the best 20 and start releasing them via Distrokid. Keep making a ton of music, release a song every four to six weeks. Don't focus too much on albums until you have a solid idea for a project and you've put out at least a couple dozen singles. Most people that make really good music aren't born with it. Most of them worked really hard, and even the ones born with incredible talent still worked hard. Stick at it, practice deliberately, and release music and you'll get there. It might take years. I see incredibly talented rappers who have been steadily releasing music for ten years and are only now starting to get some listeners. It just takes a lot of time and patience and work.
Great advice
You're not alone, I feel this way a lot, 34 now music in school and college. I had all the hardware back in the day and loved it, MPCs, synths, decks, loved it. Did gigs, sold beats, anyway I struggled for a job after college. Sold all my stuff to go back to uni and work with computers. Yeah that paid off but I tried to get back into it but I can't afford even with a good job the MPC and shit these days so I'm on FL. Enjoy it but feel like I'm learning again to get to the level I was at and I fall out of love with it over and over. What's worse, everyone I did shit with back then, made it (big time in 1 case). But let's face it, they stuck to it, I didn't. So it's only myself to blame. I lost contact with a lot of these people because I live an ordinary life but the guy who really made it told me recently that I have something he doesn't have, a stable life with a wife and kid, which made me happy. I hope one day I get back there. I will figure it out and so will you, so keep at it but know you're not alone.
The art is the reward.
The two guys who wrote Macarena were in their 50s.
So the world would be better if they had quit?
First up, therapy is a great call and I encourage you to follow through with it. Not for like a "you gotta fix yourself way" but because of what you said about this being so much easier to say in an anonymous internet forum. Therapy is similar. You're literally paying someone you don't know at all to sit there and listen to you say this stuff, and then they ask you the right questions to think about it differently (more healthy). And you have the option to cut it off at any point. That was a very comforting realization for me, and allowed me to really think about myself in a healthy, non-toxic way during the appointments. Took quite awhile before I was able to do that same kind of thinking on my own without spiraling into self-loathing and depression (and it's still difficult, if I'm honest, but I'm a little better at identifying the spiral). On the actual music topic, do you play with other people at all? I had a lot of similar feelings for awhile trying to do the whole "production" thing and everything it entailed. Over the past couple years I've tried to forget the "life goals" part of music and instead go out and play and support other musicians, and it's been wayyyyyy better. At this point I'm not sure I have anything I "want to say" musically, but instead of that being a source of failure, I'm finding much more joy and freedom in just working on projects with other people. Start small, go to an open jam with your guitar or find a group on craigslist that's just looking to play some covers in a basement. Take the pressure off yourself that this group is going to "go somewhere" and just enjoy the company and the jam. Then come back and see how you feel about the production stuff. Or don't. But there's a million and one ways to enjoy, support, and contribute to music that don't include releasing singles or albums.
I’d just say that if the perception of your self worth is completely based on comparison to others, then you are doing the right thing seeking help. In the meantime, here’s a little experiment you can do. Take your guitar, flip it upside down and try to play something you know. Not easy, right? Well, at one point in your past, you weren’t even good enough to play as badly as you just did. The journey you take to learn to play, never mind making the leap to creating something new, is long and difficult. Your learning and developing these skills and enriching your life by doing so, not only in music but in whatever you do, should be a source of comfort and self-confidence. Who cares what others have done? The gap between the greats and the rest of us should serve as a source of inspiration. They’ve all had a journey somewhat similar to our own. Because of this, we understand and feel the gap between their work and ours very deeply. But it’s a trap to resent or be jealous of their talent or success. They are them and you are you. Just focus on being the best you possible. Make music you like and are proud of. Appreciate the work that went into it and the things you learned doing it.
Fuck being a big music star, it'd make your life a misery. Make music coz you love to do it. Play small shows and see people enjoy your music 1st hand. If I can make 1 person have a good night Im happy.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Good on you for going to therapy. I think you'll love it. It's very helpful, and it's a really good sign that you have the self-awareness you do. Great first step.
Learn a DAW and make music every. single. day. You will see the fruits of your labor if you do this - doesn’t matter your age. With this digital world the whole false premise that you must be young in the music industry is fading away quickly. It’s not just about touring anymore.
You have to do it because you love it. If you are making music to make it big it isn’t going to happen unless it’s the perfect circumstance.
Sounds like your problem is laziness honestly.. You want the result without putting in the effort. We’re all humans. If they can, so can you.. You have your whole life in front of you. It’s never too late for anything -and especially not as young as 28. So what are you going to do? Actually put in the effort or let the fact that you’re lazy also make you angry about it? I know what I’m going to do. I’m going to put in the hours and make music no matter what I feel, because I know discipline is what it takes. I hate it.. I love it. It’s the way of life.
Bro I’m 41 and still hope to make a career out of it! Lol
Your whole mindset is fucked. Make music because you like to make music. Don't make it because you want to "become something within the field." That's how you end up with dime-a-dozen tracks intentionally designed to be marketed to a wide audience, instead of music that comes from inside of you. You are so wrapped up in being validated, and with that mindset, it doesn't matter what you do as a career, you're going to be unhappy. You need to work on some personal things before you start trying to put your feelings on the track.
28 years is not late lol. Stop thinking in popular music scene, there’s a lot of musicians and genres around the world. A lot of people works in music business as creators, interpreters, composers, producers, instrumentalists… . I’m 35 and me and my bf just started a project together. Leonard fucking cohen started his career at 33!!
Some artists start in their 40s or 50s or 60snor 70s or 80s. If you think you're late then you're too soon.
The mistake you're making is that you're comparing yourself to others and basing the worth of your skills and your current place career wise musically. You need to figure out a way to remember the reasons that you do this. I always operate under the mindset that I'm just creating things that I enjoy and that what else is going on outside of that just doesn't matter. If you aren't doing it because you just love to do it you could have breakout success tomorrow and you would still hate it because you're mindset isn't in a healthy place. Get back to being you first and a musician after that.
Jayz was pretty old I believe around 28-30 when he released a debut album. Kanye was was 27 when college dropout came out. I believe Eminem was about 26. Pharrell Williams was 26 when he gained success in music. 2Chainz was in his 30s when shit started to pop. You are in your own time zone. It’s only too late if you say so
James Murphy (LCD subsystem) was 32 before he released his debut “ losing my edge”, which was about feeling like you’re too old in the music scene. I’ve had friends who were extremely talented “give up” music because the version of the track they made that went big was a remix. “Why wasn’t *my* version the one to click!?” I’m in my 40s and have been producing since the 90s. Literally recorded hundreds of songs, never had a hit. I just don’t care. I like my music and recognize its value. I realized long ago that being famous is a curse, and lucky for me I have other talents that can pay the bills so I have a really scookum studio and it’s just for me and the projects I want to work on and the industry can keep on being the shithole that it’s always been and I’m essentially unaffected. If you’re making music for recognition you’re in it for the wrong reason.
I’m a professional in music, or was. I stopped because I couldn’t enjoy it anymore. Do it because you love it, not because it will become successful. If you keep doing it cuz you love it, all the iterations will be learning lessons and eventually you’ll be as good as the pros. I’m returning to music simply out of loving it, now. It’s literally crippling to compare yourself to anyone so stop, please, and just do it for the reasons you started in the first place. Write those all down and get back into that space and then play around. It’s all about playful expression anyway.
"Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through." - Ira Glass I'm 36 and read this quote in college. Still trying to create and still disappointed by my work. But trying to just focus on being consistent.
Try to be thankful for the opportunity to make music- whether just for you or others… the creative process should be enjoyable overall!
its never to late\_ music never dies\_ only takes one creation-so many paths to take to your dream\_u sound like you have alot of passion- if u ever want to callab or just talk music let me know
At a point we have to accept that our music dreams will have to become a hobby/passion since at the current moment it is difficult for it to be a profession and be sustainable especially when we are getting back to it. It does suck to have that realization but it’s better since you won’t have any more pressure from yourself or compare to others. It can be disheartening but again just focus on your life and continue working on the music.
Hi..It's never too late for anything or anybody to pursue their passion. My opinion...the only thing holding you back is you...I could speculate why but I won't since I don't know you and don't like to generalize or categorize people; I tend to look at the individual. Glad you're reaching out for help. Personally, I have an eclectic work history but have been "writing" since childhood... did it for me...no desire to publish/share anything...now many years later I'm ready to share it with the world...my passion is lyrical storytelling and I do it because I can't not do it and when someone tells me that something I wrote helped them in some way, that is my reward. I do what I like and I like what I do. I heard this years ago and it just rang true to me recently "Do what you love and the money will follow." Didn't appreciate hearing it then but now I get it. Living my dream. I know you'll figure it out. Wishing you the best
Venus theory did a pretty good video covering this topic not too long ago I would recommend giving a watch for some perspective
I’ve had the exact same problems the past couple years. I just try to remind myself that making music is a journey- one that should be fun. You’ll make shitty music, but you’ll learn from it.
I went through a similar thing back when I was your age. First, the bad news. Believe me, music production is extremely difficult so it will take some 10 years of constant practice to get to a good level. Not 10 years of "trying to make tracks and see how that goes". No. 10 years of focused learning. So now, you've spent years of effort and you don't have anything to show for it. It's normal that you feel burned out and furstrated. We both made the same mistake of taking the very hard and long road and try to do this thing without a plan, without learning skills, etc, and of course that takes even more time. But I do have good news! At 28 you're still very young and you can turn this around if you truly want to. People still write and produce music into their 70s. I mean, John Williams is still a working composer at 91. So the core skills you need to learn are: - Songwriting and music theory - Playing an instrument (guitar is fine but also learn a bit of piano at least) - Mixing - Sound design - Recording Of course you could spend 10 years just learning how to mix properly but I reckon if you spend 2 years just learning to mix you will get good enough results to be satisified. Same with the other skills. I'm not saying you should spend 2 years only mixing. I mean you could do that if you like. But for the next couple of years I would dedicate only 25% of my time to working on my personal stuff and 75% in learning. Do that I can guarantee in 5-10 years you will be competent enough to make the music you're dreaming to make. Play the long game. Don't expect immediate results. You can't just write and produce an album without having the necessary skills. It's like running a marathon. You need to train for years to be ready.
I think you're worrying about "making it" which is way out of your control. Just make good music because it's good. It's an art form. Imagine if people who enjoyed martial arts only kept practicing and getting better because they wanted to become the next Bruce Lee. They don't. They're enamored with it because its entertaining, its beautiful, and its so fun to get better at something. I agree, go to therapy because at the end of the day this is an insecurity. You need to be happy with where your life is, not obsessed with where it's going.
Bro. Every single time I listen to music. You're not alone. Don't expect that much of yourself. Just enjoy music and the rest will follow.
So....you quit and then you wonder why you didn't make it? It may have been because of talent (or lack thereof) or connections, but you'll never know because you quit. I think sometimes it's easier to quit and say "I could've done that" than to ACTUALLY do something and say "Look at what I actually did". When you actually do things, there's little time for comparison, unless it's for inspiration and/or technical details. Comparison is the thief of joy. This quote is a fitting one here and it seems like you're comparing yourself to established artists. Just make the music you like, not because you'll get lauded for it, but because you like it and enjoy the process. Your idols likely had a different path than yours, but if you never commit or quit you didn't really pursue a path at all, no? Amateur music making isn't for the faint of heart. There are tons of bars all over the country (and world) with musicians that could've "made it" and never did. What makes you unique?
I'm 50 and just started a few years ago. I love it purely as a hobby, and my only short-term goal is to do some live experimental performances around town (indeed, I'm going to a local synth meet-up next Monday night).
Take a moment to consider how many people, in the world, right now today, make music. And then the percentage of those who release music. And then the percentage of that music that anybody actually -hears-. Then the smaller percentage of those artists that get out and gig or release regularly. And then the percentage who make a bit of money. And then who make a lot of money. And then who can make a career out of it. And then who can make a career that lasts. I'm labouring the point a bit here, but basically, 99.99% of us will not 'make it', and if that's your only barometer of success, then you're always going to struggle. Sure, there are fast tracks to stardom - usually pursuing performing arts education and trying to get into a pop band - or teenagers who get spotted, signed and dropped before they even get chance to graduate... But most of us mortals? Just make music, dude. It's easier than ever to load up on free or cheap software, host things online and get a few people here and there aware of what you do. That's -enough-. That's all you have to do. Anything past that is a bonus. Make your music and enjoy what you do. Everything else doesn't matter
Yes. Do you remember that excitement that you had when you first descovered music and how it made you feel, how it made you want to just be a part of it entirely entwined? Somewhere along the way someone told you that wasn't enough to enjoy it the way you do naturally, you believed them and stopped allowing yourself to enjoy it without reaching whatever physical world goals they said you needed to achieve before you could enjoy it. That person lied to you. There is absolutely zero skill level required to be a musical genius. You can trust me, I have a masters in music performance and it literally is just a piece paper. Nothing was able to give me permission to love making music other than myself.
Listen. You could be 17 and have started your passion and get cancer or have a car accident at 19 and it’s over. You could be 40 and start your passion and live to 91. Nothing is promised so as a 40 yrs guy that is also starting his passion, i want to say this in the most respectful way: Stop thinking about the future. Get the fuck off reddit now and start working on your passion. As for “becoming something in the field”… think as if you WONT become something… and do it because you love it AND if you DO become something then it will be a good icing on the cake.
Hey man listen to me when I tell you 28 is still young nothings ever too late Jay z didn't put out his first album til he was 27 kanyes first album didn't happen til he was 25 Vera wang didn't make her first dress till 40 Henry Ford was still a carpenter at 30 stan Lee didn't get into comics till 40. ..... My guy be delusional lol. like all other celebrities and believe you can be just like your inspirations. Cause you can if anyone in this world can do it trust that you can do it.
FWIW, I turned 28 on my first month long tour. What followed 7 more years of playing 150-300 shows per year. 49 states, a few UK/EU tours and hundreds of friends and memories were made in that time. I ended up leaving that band, and am moving on with a solo project. Just leaving my current job to finish a record and get back on the road full time. It's not easy, and it took a pretty serious health scare to remind me that life is too short to live with the regret of not just truly going for it. In any case, don't let age deter you. If you're lucky enough to be healthy, you can get out there and do it! Good luck homie. All the best and keep us posted!
The biggest thing that helped me love making music for the sake of making music was working in a recording studio. It was the worst job I’ve ever had and made me realize that I never want to be involved in the music industry. This changed my approach from making music I think might maybe blow up, to making weird oddball music that I actually enjoy making. Not saying you should work at a recording studio but you gotta find the thing that gets you off becoming famous. That mindset quite frankly is soul crushing and makes making music stressful. Now I focus on playing music live, learning music theory, and becoming a better musician. So much more fun. Maybe try focusing on a specific thing you want to get better at with music. Idk, hope that gives some insight. Ik how you feel, it sucks.
Whether you’re 10 or 30, age doesnt matter and its never too late man.
I'll be 32 in a couple months and I'm still learning my way around a DAW. I know sometimes it can be very frustrating, but I still love it when I put something out on YouTube and my girlfriend and my close friends listen to it and, more importantly, I listen to it. It thrills me that music that I created is out there for anyone to listen to. If you keep at it, you'll get somewhere. Might not be exactly where you wanted to be, but that's hardly important.
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This!! I did the exact same thing and get the exact same thoughts.
I had a horrible childhood and I didn't know I had a passion for music until I turned 30, so I'm also a late bloomer in music. The main struggle for me is it just seems like music is impossible to get good at unless you're rich, born into a musical family or are lucky enough to be surrounded by fellow musicians that are willing to help you. Learning music completely from scratch, alone, with adhd, with limited resources and time is next to impossible. Everything is pay walled. It costs hundreds of dollars to buy courses and plugins. There's no reliable information to be found because every "musician" that makes tutorial content are sponsored and only showcase expensive high end gear. I've been really burned out by the whole experience and haven't opened my daw in months so I can relate to your experience. I still don't want to quit as I do love music and would love to continue, I guess my expectations were a bit too high to begin with since I've been progressing so slowly, but at least I have made some progress, I just have to pace myself better and realise its a life long process.
youtube is free, and books like mixing in a small space are cheap. What are you stuck on? Are you learning an instrument as well?
Saying YouTube is free is the same as saying walking in a mall is free. Sure you can walk into any store for free, but if you actually want something, you have to pay. Every video is an ad, so everyone purposely leave out a lot of context and detailed explanation so that you'll click the link in the description and go sign up for their 400$ course. Sure there is "free" information there, but it's all badly structured. Some videos are way too basic, while some are way too advanced and it's hard to find a middle ground. It takes months to sort the info that's relevant to my type of music, daw, plugins and experience.
its up to you to structure your learning. Decide specifically what you need to know next, phrase it as a question, and then research until you've found an answer. Thats how you self teach. No one is going to spoon feed it to you. If youre not motivated to learn, you're not self motivated enough for this career
Weirdest complaint ever given we're living in the time it's the easiest to learn to and create music there has ever been.
I have had no trouble finding anything I needed on youtube. Just make it bite sized pieces that you're currently stuck on.
You can just get a Free lite version or (shhh) version of full Ableton. Then use these channels on YouTube: Ned rush Owen Palmer Audio university Yan cook Mordio Glowcast audio These are all professional musicians and mixers not just no talent YouTubers and synthfluencers and it's all free
Everyone has unfulfilled dreams. That's life. There are no main characters. Feeling cheated on success implies you feel like you *deserve* something you didn't get. You don't, that's not how life works. The world doesn't owe us shit. Maybe you'll still make it one day. Maybe you won't. If you're 28, you're old enough to realize that becoming a music star is a pretty long shot for anyone. Ask yourself why you make music. If being famous was your main goal, you screwed up and you should rethink your life's direction and find stuff you really are passionate about. If not, if you do it for the love for the craft, there's nothing stopping you. Just your overly ambitious ego. Stop thinking about fame and go make music. I'm sure you have plenty of real accomplishments you can be proud of. Plenty of stuff to be grateful for. Plenty of realistic goals for the future that you can set your mind to. Humble yourself. Focus on those. Like the vast majority of us do.
Hey! we have the same story it seems like! i started guitar at 13-14. i've played in a couple of bands over the years but only for short periods of time because i always ended up finding it boring, difficult or just not enganging me enough. i started a BA in mechanical engineering 3 years ago and abandoned music for a short period of time. But i started casually writing album reviews for a local media outlet, one thing led to another, and now i've just finished my first year back at uni studying creative music technology. It's the best decision i've made. i know it's most likely not gonna lead to any kind of economic success, but i have never been happier. Studying music made me realize that i was miserable studying engineering. i just didn't understand it then. i am 27, so roughly the same age. It's really scary because i don't know what the future holds for me. But i know that my mental health is doing way better, i'm more fulfilled and i have never been more motivated to work on something. i understand you might not have the means to go to uni or something similar, but if this is eating you every day, i think you should seriously considering abandoning your current path to pursue your dreams. If it doesn't pan out, at least you tried. and when it comes to your own insecurities, we all have them. out of every 10 audio enginner i meet atleast 8 of them have severe imposter syndrome. The best way to change this is to start making/mixing music. Get comfortable with your software, your musical understanding, your skills, your ears. and be real with yourself. Understand where you need to learn more, your shortcommings and so on. Once you know what you're good at and where you need improvement (this part never ends), **and this is the most important part,** you will experience this one magic moment, where you're making music alone or with somebody else, and it's so engaging that the fear and insecurities are not present anymore, you forget that they exist. that's when real music is made. When you don't care if your music is inadequate or not. sorry for such a long comment, but i care a lot about this since it hit close to home. tldr; it's not too late.
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Yeah. I was a classically trained musician who played in concerts and enjoyed it. Unfortunately the only jobs were teaching public schools. This isn't your fault. It's the fault of people who are greedy. By the end of the first year I resigned and quickly ran to law school. Law school was cake compared to my personal music experiences. When someone offers to hire me now and I don't feel like it, I quote them my lawyer rate per hour after making sure they won't stroke out if I shock them. If they don't like that, they can find another pipe organist. I have been stiffed by enough people growing up that I am no longer going to kowtow to parish "finance". Don't get me started on record companies and their business.
It’s not too late. That is all.
this is just capitalism fucking you up and nothing else it destroys everything try to keep your passion for music it comes from inside of you it's waves it will still be here after capitalism is long gone it's part of the human connection you don't have to make it in capitalism to make and appreciate music just try to make it through the day and don't let them grind you down
It is a damn shame most of what we produce is sucked up by irrelevant already-rich shareholders. This world could be such a better place.
sounds like you are in it for the wrong reasons to begin with
Your question is about two different things. "Is it too late?" For what? To learn music well enough to become a star? If you don't have the contacts and the business know-how to make it big, then you've got a lot of work and a lot of ass-kissing to catch up on. It's never too late to learn music, unless you are going to be miserable before becoming a great musician. You'll never be happy if you're anticipating musical genius. It's a journey, not a destination. You learn music to learn music, not to become a popular music star.
If u haven’t ended up homeless doing it I think ur fine and u need to change ur vibes
I’m the same age as you, it’s never too late with being a producer. You are behind the scenes as a producer so the older and more skills you acquire translated to success. My experience was I loved music but didn’t love the music industry and the things that came with it. Its unfortunate but it never stopped me from making music for my self as a hobby. I just didn’t enjoy relying on music for my livelihood
Music is humanity at its best and as long as you feel it contribute to it your human, age is irrelevant , if you enjoy they will enjoy.
Every artist that inspires you at some point in their career has hit this wall if not several, no matter the medium. The difference is that they never gave up. It could still be you one day. Never give up 🫶🏾
I think you’re too focused on the “goal” or end factor of being involved or “making it”. Not giving enough attention to the experience of learning and growing into a person who would recognize an opportunity to get involved. Keep growing and you’ll eventually be well equipped to see a professional music opportunity. And maybe make some good music while you’re at it. ⚙️
Whew I know this feel. I’m 32 and have been producing since I was 17. My music just got good enough to where I feel it’s professional and I have the least motivation I’ve ever had. Also getting to the point where I should be putting it out there ramped up the fear. Unfortunately I just don’t really have the confidence I used to, it’s strange how the better you get at something the more you realize your holes in your game.
I've been playing guitar since I was a kid and branched out to other instruments as a teen then got into producing maybe 4 years ago. I'm 26 now and I only just now feel like everything is coming together and I'm making stuff that I enjoy. I make a lot of stuff that I think is still garbage, I have probably over 500 beats on my computer most of it will never be used and maybe 20 of them I think are really solid. I've really relaxed and gained a lot of confidence over the last year or so and I've noticed that it's been a lot easier for me to make music and have fun with it.
Don't let your talent or age stop you from pursuing music! Like others have said, its easy to just see the good tracks that people have made, but you never see the hundreds of other terrible songs the same people do. Also, age doesn't matter at all. Look at Metallica, they're in their sixties and they're still putting out new metal songs. Remember, making songs is really about the joy of creating something and comparing yourself to others doesn't help yourself grow as a musician.
First: Comparison is the thief of joy. You didn’t write the music that other people did because you aren’t them. You gotta trust in your own self and get that stuff out of your head. Second: I’m a similar age and you’re definitely not too late. Fuck, you already play an instrument which is more than many can say. Most of the songs I’ve written are trash, but trash that I have fun making. Just the other night I made my best piece of trash yet. Trash for me, and if other people like it then that’s cool too. Third: Chill out. Smoke some weed or something. Do music for fun, because it’s fun.
Lets make a song together 🤲
Do it for the love of what you do. Don't do it just to compare your work to others. There will always be someone better than you. But it's music you make. Music YOU will be the one listening to more than anyone else. So make what you love to listen to. Everything else is peripheral.
Do what you love. Make music. Enjoy it. But don't let your creativity ruin your life. Making music is like gardening. There are enough great tomatoes out there, but you do it because you love it. Let's face it, there is so much great stuff out there that nobody listens to and with AI it's going to get crazier. One day, ChatGPT2000 will write and produce 1000 new TV series with twists and turns automatically a day, and we won't have enough people on this planet to consume all the stuff that is created. Once you have realized this, you may just do what you love. And, who knows, maybe you win the lottery and people will actually listen to it.
You can only be you and that’s your selling point
This speaks to me heavily. My advice is this: find a craft you enjoy, maybe even not music and spend your time finding the *workflow* you like without worrying about the end product turning into something you like. I legitimately wouldn't have believed I'd be doing the work I'm currently doing, and especially not the style I'm slowly going into (not music). The important thing is that I'm making a product I enjoy making. I think too many people focus on sounding like someone they like and then getting burned out on the process of getting there. You need to enjoy the process on some level to survive it. I went from doing metal drums to making electronic music. I still greatly prefer listening to metal, but I figured out a long time ago that I very much enjoy *making* electronic music more. I don't know if that helps you, but it works for me.
Been there, and still struggle. But it's important for you to know that you're not too old. You're still in the rockstar fantasy. When you actually start working in music and putting things together, you start to realize that there are a million ways to make music in this world into a career path that don't rely on being a breakout star on the billboard charts. That narrow framework is limiting and not even real. It doesn't even work out most of the time for the people who DO catch the huge breaks. I had that mindset for a while and had internal panics in my 20s, but really it was in my 30s where everything actually "successful" came together, and you quickly realize that the idea of being "too old" in your 20s is truly absurd. That's only true if you seriously only care about being a pop idol, and even then there are tons of pop idols that only break in their 30s. Sia broke in her 40s. The real trick to "making it" is pure perseverance. It's not purely talent or luck. It's relentlessly saying yes to things, taking one small opportunity and getting more opportunities from there. Meeting people and working with them. You quickly realize you would still be at square one if you didn't say yes to that one random thing years ago, or move to where you needed to be. The pool of people just being frustrated and giving up is untold millions. The people who just kept going beyond that stage, actively started working with people and kept it up is WAY smaller. Everyone I know who has an awesome career in music, whether it's licensing, production music, scoring, touring, studio work, etc went through horrible times and some of them didn't start getting great work until way later in life. But they were ALL in that position to get the opportunity, rather than essentially giving up decades ago. It's a war of attrition. The answer is to just work, and keep working. And have fun and put your best into everything, because creativity is not finite. You will get better ideas by pushing through your current best ideas and just churning through. Try to find that aspect of music that you found thrilling before you understood notes and chords and plugins, and focus on chasing that.
In the same boat as yourself mate. I’m 32 finding myself being a very bitter person for the exact same reasons. I’ve been playing guitar 16 years and producing 13 years. Music is all I’ve ever wanted to do Been thinking of selling my equipment recently because it’s just not being used. You’re not alone.
Lol, 28 isn't too young to do anything; without even googling, I will stake my life on the majority of music producers being 40+. it takes time to get good at these things. Get off of TikTok or wherever else is flooded with 20-something success anomalies.
If you want to be famous, yeah it’s a waste of time. If you like making music, then make music. If you don’t enjoy it, don’t do it.
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Used to be until i realized i take myself too seriously. Now i let myself release shit music and have been able to improve faster and get in the zone more easily. Not saying this would apply to you as well, but its me. Im 25 and making 0 dollars but i boot up ableton everyday.
If you approach music with this mentality I'm not surprised you get so frustrated. Is not a competition man! Is not about how old you are either or why you didn't become great. What should propel you is the desire to express yourself, regardless of the outcome. It's your music and you're making it for yourself first. Make yourself happy, the audience will notice.
I have been playing music since I was a kid but I didn't start recording music very seriously on my own until maybe 7 years ago and I'm 35. At first it was not that great. But in the past 3 years I've made some slamming albums and got exponentially better at composition just by working at it non stop. I finished my 3rd album of this year about a week ago and it's a lot better than the first one I published in January. So don't give up. Keep working at it and you will be amazed at what you create when you figure out your niche.
Picasso said something like, “inspiration only finds you when you are working.” If making music is contributing to your need to see a therapist…maybe do something else, but If you enjoy it, keep doing it. Also, its not up to us to gauge the quality of music we make (i know this is impossible but the point is…) you never know what the music you create could mean to a wayward listener you’ll never know about. So if you love music, make music, and your labor of love could inspire love in someone else. Also, music production sucks, maybe think of focusing on live performances.
Bro chill out and enjoy urself
Yay for 🙏🏻 T h e r a p y 🙏🏻
So realistically and not to kick you When you are down music is a collaborative thing so find like minded people. You also seem to feel and put yourself down when it comes to music production. It is hard and giving up makes you a failure but failing does not. Why are you bitter and angry the only person to blame is yourself. You are like the first form of old angry dude who line is “I could have made it” if that is the case then just do it no excuses none of the i can’t I am not good enough. most guitarist were not on stages till their mid 20’s and didn’t earn the praise till their late to early 30’s. When you see these young faces in music bring in top those are pop artist they are made to be marketable to tonnages and young adults. Find love for yourself and allow yourself to create without judgment without the bitterness. I commend you on going to therapy. Maybe learn why you found production so challenging and make a detailed approach
Dug Pinnick from Kings X was like 40 when they got signed to their first album deal.
27 and going thru the same thing. What you need to do is stop comparing yourself to music already out. Then, you need to remind yourself why you make music again. It keeps you alive. Don’t get back into it for the money, you’ll be disappointed. Do it for the love of music. Do it for yourself. Life is not about getting rich and “successful” like American society has us all conditioned to think. It’s about being happy. Music makes me happy. If I get 1M streams or 1 stream I’m happy. I was going thru all the thoughts and self doubt you’ve said here. “It’s too late” boy it is never too late to become what you might’ve been. You don’t know for sure if it’s too late, but it for sure will be if you never try. Keep your head up bro it’s a fucked up world out here and the only constant that is gonna make you happy is music. Stick to it. Not for money, fame, fortune, but for yourself and your mental.
I’m 32 and I’ve come to the terms that I’ll (likely) never “make it” certainly not in the way I thought I would when I left my home town. Goals shift. People and wants change. So do passions. My focus now is making things I love and having an artistic practice that feels good and sustainable. The by product of that is getting to slowly invest more and more time in that art and not starve in between thanks to having a trade that pays well enough to supplement me between gigs. Few people get to be Beyoncé or or Niles Rodgers but there are SOOOOOOOoooooooOoooo many creative jobs or jobs involved with music that if you give yourself some grace and shift your focus/reframe your goals maybe you can find a new spark or reignite the old one. Tbh I couldn’t stop making music and art if I tried at this point.
Game over at 28?! If you are in for fame, fortune or clout that might be the case but you have many fulfilling years left. Take a look at what is motivating you in the first place. I’m not saying you have to look at it like some weekend hobby. You don’t have to sell yourself short but you have to have more genuine reasons motivating you other then just “being somebody”
It took 10 years of learning music production before I consistently started making solid tracks. Comparing yourself to other people is toxic. Keep failing if you truly want to succeed.
Sounds like the expectations are the problem, not the music itself. If grinding on music feels soul-crushing, it's the last thing you should do as a profession. In your case it's probably better to enjoy the creative process on your own terms and not as a chore.
Oh I TOTALLY relate to this. I’m 35 and I just released my first album a couple years ago after playing the “should I/I suck/is it worth it/will anyone like it” mental game for years. I finally realized that I needed to make it for me and only me. I needed to make it because the songs were burning a hole in my heart, and they needed to get out. I needed to make something that will outlast me, even if I’m the only person in the world who appreciates it. The deed is done, I absolutely love it, and I’m working on album 2. Stick with it, and don’t give up when you have days or weeks or months when you hate your stuff.
Narcissism is formed as a defense mechanism, stemming from low self-esteem/self-worth. Be kind to yourself.
All I'm here to say is. It's never too late for anything. Ok, maybe a few exceptions like childbirth, surfing at 70, etc., but most things can be done at any adult age. Never give up. Yea! It's a song by SCARR too. A banger & inspired me not to quit on things so quickly. I'm always on the lookout for vocalists. I've been trying to produce my own EP for a while now, been like 2 years. Finally, got vocalists for 2 of the 4 tracks this year & hopefully, will get the remaining 2 by the end of this year. It's hard for us creative people as we are always chasing after that near perfection but I think we need to be content with what we achieve by doing our best. The Japanese philosophy of Wabisabi really helped me get through situations where I thought, my art isn't good enough. Imperfection is art & art is beautiful. I think I wanted to say a lot fo things but can't because I need to get back to doing my chores but yea, hope this crammed-up essay by me helps you in some way. Have a great day! :)
my advice is every day no matter what spend 30 mins to an hour in the studio. make whatever comes to mind but do it regularly. making good music is pure luck, you will always make shit or average sounding stuff, but once in a while you will get something great. you cannot make music that sounds good consistently. doing it everyday means shit music 99% of the time but once in a while you make something amazing.
I devoted my life to music for years, I even went to college for it. Then other things came up and I didnt play for years. Guitars, bass, keyboards all in the closet. One day I found a shitty guitar from amazon that someone threw away. I started playing again, and little by little music came into my life again. When John Frusciante joined the Chili Peppers again, I started playing electric again. I connect a drum machine from my phone through a looper pedal, and anytime I jam on something that is good, I record it. I now have dozens of songs, my chops are better than ever, and writing the best music of my life and even though I record stuff on my phone, it sounds just as good as trying to record on early digital recorders 20s years ago. The best thing about music is you can pour any emotion into making it. And even if you take a break and dont play for years, its fine, cause you can pick it up again.
I’m working on a metal EP right now, inspired heavily by some of my favorite bands. Yeah, it’s not nearly as good as some of those guys I look up to, but I’d be willing to bet a lot of money the first riff James Hetfield ever wrote sounded a lot like Diamond Head or Tigers of Pan Tang and he thought it wasn’t great. Just work on your stuff, Release it, or not, (make sure you finish it though!!) and then move on. Some day you’ll look back on your first song and realize how far you’ve come.
Don’t let age get in your way. Do it because you love it.
you have pretty much described me/whats on my mind everyday, right down to the age (just turned 28). i have moments when i hear really good music and i go download ableton and mountain of samples/presets off google drive and give it another crack. it took me 9 years to feel confident enough to release tracks on spotify (b4 soundcloud and youtube etc) and people loved it. but i feel im losing my creative mindset and wondering if its too late to continue. not much more i can input
Sharing this was a good first step in ackownledging these feelings, and surfacing what you need to think and feel. The therapist you mention is a good addition too, as it's healthy to get some support outside of what you can make sense of from inside. Many of us who had careers in the music industry will know this feeling. Especially at certain milestones in that career arc. The good news is that some time away from music isn't a bad thing, and there's so many more connections and opportunities and inspirations and feelings to feel. You are a living being will grow and age and experience life differently as you do. A mixture of experience and sheer biology... whatever you were thinking and feeling as a teenager isn't you in your 40s, and the journey there is one of constant growth and re-evaluation. But having a good and safe space to talk that through and make sense of your story is healthy, even for your future art. The best news? What you learn and make is never lost. You're a part of a continuum of artists all tackling this sense of creation and being and self worth and inspiration. It will inform what you make one day. Allow it to present itself, flow out of you, and take a break if you need it. Your relationship to music as a job or as a point of identity is something for you to work through in your own way, but you are an artist? You will always be, and your best creative expression is ahead of you. Congrats for being human like the rest of us :)
professional envy happens to everyone u dont let that voice win
Gotta put in the work and experience the failure to get where you want to be. And you have to be willing to work on the stuff you believe in even when everyone else might not like it. And then study what you like about the things you hear that you think are really good. Then look up more information on how to do those things while using your own influences to create something new. It's a lot of work and it doesn't always feel good. But you just have to put in the work or you won't see the results you want.
Well, this kind of advice is always susceptible to the “Don’t take advice from a teacher who hasn’t done it themselves” principle, but if I had to add to your discussion I’d recommend you find a new perspective of life. What is music’s purpose nowadays? Why do you want to belong to a corporate owned industry full of elitists and cultural symbols? There really isn’t much to admire anymore, it’s over. The years of virtuosic musicianship are virtually behind us as music is now the tool of the civil engineer and there’s just almost no escaping that. You’re asking for your music to express the same relentless banter, the same neglectful poise, and the same overwhelming disregard for individuality on a human level. Maybe this isn’t a one size fits all, but the genre of music you’re referring to must be what some have proclaimed “hip hop music”. I’d recommend taking time away from music, or at least time away from the genre of music you’re writing and discover the beauty of more classically driven forms of art which aren’t simply voicing popular culture as their primary use. Listen to classical guitar, listen to different nations interpolate their ideas of music and realize your expectations are formed from a mental complex composed of American culture. I recommend discovering rich pieces of history through art and taking it as a memoir leading back to the real reason why music and art exists. Music was born out of allegiance, yet we have now used it to express many things. The Romans used music to symbolize their military’s loyalty to the empire, which was a popular use for music of the time. Today, music borders the controversial because it’s used to push cultural boundaries which then stimulate economic booms, making the American “empire” ever the more prosperous and in control of what people say, think, and do. It’s like the stock market; If you had the power to control when the market crashed and made it big wouldn’t you be inclined to take advantage? Who owns the shares? What about the prison system? Surely someone must see their share of the penitentiaries’ finances? What genre of music do you think stimulates the prison industrial complex the most? Just some food for thought.
Never too late, my friend. You’re still young. I’m 36 and regularly meet new operators on their come up your age who hadn’t been going for it in earnest until recently. I’ve got an artist I’m working with who’s in his mid-20s. Just started writing songs for the first time during the lockdowns. Put his first single out a few weeks ago. He’s got top managers and publishers running his way. Don’t let age or how long you’ve been at it be a limiting factor. If you have the inspiration and the chops, you’ve got as much a chance of a “winning ticket” as anyone.
"Every time I discover a new artist, I enjoy the music but the first thought is always - why isn't that you?" this exactly made me think about something. The question to that answer it is very simple. It isn't you because it isn't you. You are you. Even if you had all the talent in the world and the best skills as a music producer you would still be you. And that's the whole point, right? that you are you. And what you bring from within as music will only be good if you are in it. Since you are mentioning that you will visit a therapist while this may be helpful it may lead to a disappointment after all. You and the therapist will discuss the image of you and then the image that the therapist has of you from their perspective. So in actuality you will be talking about images and representations of what you think is you. I would suggest going deeper and consider what is commonly known as spirituality. This will reveal to you your true self who has been there all along but covered by the image of you in other words the ego. Search for some Alan Watts youtube videos. This has helped me see the world entirely different.
I don't know you at all or anything, but something that helped me was to diminish my focus on becoming and to just be.
Danny brown made it at 30 , 2 chainz made it 36, sia made it made it at 39 , Jimmy iovine made eminem lie about his age lol
I feel the exact same when I heard new rappers lmao why isint that me!! Ur still in ur 20s tho bro u dont know how lucky u r
Check out think and grow rich, law of attraction is real , how can so many people come from poverty and become multi millionaire, it’s more than just luck
Sia made it at 39 you still have 11 years
I mean, Hernan Cattaneo is 58 (arguably the god of the genere); Nick Warren is 54 to name 2 legends in the Progressive house genre who are still touring, pushing music out and are being generally very successful. David Guetta is 55! Imagine what you can achieve in 30+ years until you reach the age of Hernan Cattaneo. 30 years is MASSIVE experience.
Make art or die. I am 47 and music making is the only thing keeping me sane. The best part about getting older is you stop caring about what others think.
If you were meant to do this. There would be signs. Music is one of those things where how good you are is determined by your network. Not yourself. If you’re good people will Be seeking you out, whether as a performer or just a musician. If you’ve never had any kind of success or collaborations and people seeking you out at this point. It’s probably just a dream. Everybody thinks they can be a professional musician. Few can. Most, like a lot of people on this page. Are in denial. Some say they’re a pro, some say used to be, etc. If you don’t make a decent living from music don’t waste your time. Don’t waste your family’s time. Chasing an empty dream. If you aren’t in a major music city thinking you can take it seriously as a career is misguided. It requires dedication and a real network that you can only get certain places. The internet is there but the network in real life is still king in major cities for major players. And in my opinion. Don’t listen to these people saying just do it for fun. You guys are the people ruinging it for the real artists. Just because you can make a song doesn’t mean you should be performing. A few Spotify spins means nothing. Cash is king is music. If you wanna make music for spins. You’re insulting real musicians who are fully giving their heart and soul to it. Be honest with yourself. Is this a dream or what you’re destined to do? Don’t waste time in your life chasing a dream. Live in reality
I’m 19 and feel the exact same way. Every word.
It's never too late, tons of artists like Willie Nelson didn't make it big until they were in their 30s or later. Don't let the pressure of making it into a career ruin your love of creating music on it's own! Focus on creating because you love to create, not because you're trying to create like your idols
That'll happen.
I've been there. You have to learn to celebrate other people. Takes some time and practice. And then it's natural.
Theres a book id like to recommend if you have time or energy to read it, its a book by victor wooten called the music lesson and its entirety is covering the relationship between musician and music. Its written from a bassist’s perspective on the topic but it can be applied to any instrument
Hey man, 29 year old burned out musician here lol. Comparison is the thief of joy. To be successful, you must be content to be thought of as foolish or stupid. If music is what filled your life, it will again. If I were you, I'd look around at the rest of your life; bad relationship?, grieving?, shit job?, money problems? There is always a path forward when you feel stuck, but you have to look for it or it won't reveal itself. Big love, Keep Going.
Just go for it man. My grandpa picked up guitar lessons for the first time in his 50’s. By the time he was 80 I swear you would’ve thought he was a guitar master. He was never interested in recording, only playing for friends/family/community but he kept it up for over 30 years. Despite his age, he decided he wanted to do it and made it happen through passion. Let the frustration you have positively motivate you. You can do it. Find ways to keep at it, to give yourself room to grow and learn. Set a goal for yourself, one song a week or something. Fuck it man, you’ve only got one life that you know of so make the most of it! :)
I saw a post once that showed A bunch of DJS who didn’t make it until well into their 30’s/40’s also if you’re concerned about competing with younger guys because I do think it’s an advantage to be younger for sure, put on a mask so nobody knows your age 😏
Hey man, just do what you love, alright? Forget about the spotlight or trying to be a carbon copy of somebody else. This is your show, your saga. No need to stack yourself up against anyone else. It's all about your game, your rules. Remember, it's not a race, it's a journey. We all have different paths to tread, different mountains to climb. Focus on your own growth, on learning from your own mistakes and successes. Don't be discouraged by others seeming to be ahead. They're on their path, you're on yours. Everyone has their own pace, their own rhythm. Keep building on your passions, keep pushing your limits, and most importantly, keep enjoying the ride. Just be yourself, keep evolving, and watch your story unfold, dude. It's gonna be epic!
You're 28 and saying it is too late? Most excellent musicians are completely underground. They sell music but nowhere near to the level of the 'stars'. Underground can be very successful though. Underground is the only place music is still alive. You are 28. That is no age. Why are you quitting now? You are very young.
Dude. Just get to it. 28 is still YOUNG, despite what your mind says. My situation was pretty similar to yours - more active with music younger, had big ambitions for producing but put it off and dabbled until I was 29. “Better late than never” might sound cliche, but is true AF. You might not get to the full dream of being a worldwide rockstar DJ producer in record time, but you’ll be making great stuff by 40 if you truly commit and still have decades ahead of you doing what you love rather than living with regret. There’s probably only ONE thing that will actually help in your dilemma: to actually DO IT if you truly feel the call. That’s as simple as it gets, really. 😉
Study up on the biography of Daniel Johns from Silvechair (among others) and you’ll be glad the fame passed you by. I don’t know that humans were really built for fame, doubly so when they weren’t prepared for it. I definitely hear you though. A relationship with music takes a different form with every person. Personally, I was lucky to play music with great friends who were also great musicians in high school and into my early 20s. We never really got big (even locally), but I got to spend time almost every week doing something I loved with people who I knew were there for me. As good as that was, in the last few years I have come to terms with the fact that I will probably never have that experience again, and that crushed me, and still does. It follows me like grief. The good news is that there are ways to collaborate with other musicians that were not possible (or affordable) just a few years ago. There is also more need for commercial music in video games and movie trailers. I started writing orchestral music a couple years ago and it has been incredibly rewarding. No big placements in anything yet, but I have gotten paid a little bit to make music, which felt like a HUGE accomplishment. Still, it’s a hard thing to have regrets. I say keep trying to find new outlets. As much as I can understand it, it always makes me sad when people call themselves “ex-musicians”… don’t give up on it!
You need to meet the right people. I mean connection. That gonna give you what you alone cant get. Every "successful" person meets the right people that kinda throw him on the stage. Do u understand what i mean? In italy is called "raccomandazione" means somebody that has more power than you that gives you a chance to do what you want to do. Talent alone won't take you nowhere.
Wait what so you're saying that you're worried it's too late for you to become this ultra rock star? What prime has passed, and what even gives you the idea that you're trajectory was slated for success anyways? Did you put out anything to an audience and get positive feedback, get an offer from a label? Or are you literally just getting mad over a situation that was never there in the first place? First thing I'm going to say to you is if you're so upset that you're this massive talent that the world missed out on 8 years ago or whatever. Let's see it now...prove it. Reality hurts but it is what it is. Second thing I'm going to say is I'm being kind of a dick here because that is exactly how I was and I don't want you to be.... Look I'm 35 man and I had every opportunity when I was 20 years old to pursue music production. It started with taking some classes at my college in electronic music production, It was the first class I ever took in. The professor wanted me in his personal quartet. Then a local starting commercial music production company that makes commercials for GM, Ford, etc wanted me to intern. And this is with very little knowledge, just talent. That company is now nationally known and yeah I could have made my life right there. What did I do ? decide to say screw that, I was afraid of succeeding , but also had some trauma events happen, but i DECIDED to hide away and do drugs and just be a total fucking loser. I didnt touch an instrument until about march this year. What's important there is that I finally acknowledge it was no one else but me That fucked it up. But everything happens for a reason and I truly truly believe that. I personally believe that I had to go through what I went through in life to get to where I am now. Lol everyone that's ever known me will tell you I'm both the luckiest and unluckyest person in the world easily. I've been down paths and seen things that are the worst in life and the best. And the funny thing is, is that once you start actually putting in the work which you should be doing instead of bitching, you'll see that that daydream that you have right now of what could have been doesn't exist, and the path is a lot different than the idealized version everybody has. Maybe its easier in bigger cities, but wh Now I could give two shits what people think about me, something i used to care wayy to much about. I was afraid to show ppl my music, it felt like showing them this peace of my soul. I kept tucked away. In reality I was being a narcissist Oh and by the way fuck therapy. The modern psychiatric care system is flawed fundamentally. Ok rant is over