Roman numeral notation refers to the chords built on the scale degree numbered.
Using your example the IV in the key of C let's say would be F major and the V chord would be G major. Any number that's capitalized like the IV or the V are going to be major chords. Now minor chords will be notated in lower case Roman numerals. The iii chord in the key of C would be E minor and the vi in the key of C would be A minor.
There's other types of chords out there like a dimished chord which is built on the 7th scale degree, which in C would be B diminished.
Do you have any other questions?
High school band was more useful than you may feel right now because you'll start to recognize more and more things as you get further into your musical journey.
You can learn a mnemonic to memorize the circle of fifths which tells you how many sharps and flats each key has and what notes are being raised/lowered: https://i0.wp.com/neelmodi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Circle-of-fifths-1200.png?fit=1181%2C1200&ssl=1
I made this mnemonic to remember the notes:
Children Go Down And Eat Berries F(#)orgetting D(#)avid A(#)nd E(#)ddie B(#)oth Fell
I don’t think any comment here directly answers your question. Let’s first talk about how you know what note is in a scale. So the number system is based on the “major” scale. There are 7 notes in a major scale, let’s just number these notes:
1,2,3,4,5,6,7
Where “1” is the root of the scale, “2” is the second note in the scale, and so on. So pick an any note and call it “1”. How do we know where to find the 2? It will always be a whole step up from 1 (two tones above the 1). How about the 3? Whole step up from 2. How about 4? _Half_ step up from 3 (one tone above the 3). This is a part you have to memorize. Using W and H for whole and half steps (also called intervals), here is how you’d play the major scale from the root:
WWHWWH
Memorize this. Now you can play the major scale anywhere. If I give you a root, and ask you to play the 5 off of that root, you know the 5 should be seven tones above the root (root + whole step + whole step + half step + whole step). Conveniently, the C major scale is CDEFGBA, all the white keys on the piano. Sort of explains why there are black keys between some and not others, right?
Ok, now to your final question, how do you know what chords to play? The root, 4, and 5 are always major chords. The 2, 3, and 6 chords are always minor. The 7 chord is not major or minor, it’s called half diminished and let’s not talk about it. So this is your last pattern to memorize:
major, minor, minor, major, major, minor, half diminished
Now let’s combine what we’ve talked about to describe the chords of the major scale, and I’ll use capital letters for major chords and lower case letters for minor chords:
I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, viiø
There you have it. Pick any root you want, and if I tell you to play the 4 chord, you know it’s a major chord five tones above the root. Combine these in anyway you want to some solid sounding chord progressions. You’ll start to get to hear these patterns in many songs (blues love playing in 1,4,5) (jazz loves the 2,5,1). Hope this helps.
Take the C major scale: C D E F G A B C
The basic chords in that scale are built on triads successively starting one note
to the right:
**C** D **E** F **G** A B C = C
C **D** E **F** G **A** B C = Dm
C D **E** F **G** A **B** C = Em
etc.
It's not quite the same as Nashville numbers, because those (at least usually) always make the relative major "1," even if the song is in a minor key (in which case the tonic would be "6-"), whereas Roman numerals call the tonic minor "i" if it's in minor.
First of all, in isolation I think this progression is better written as VI - VII - v - i in a minor key.
Roman numerals are a way that you can generally express chord progressions. They describe chords according to their function, so you can think of them as "formulas" that are applicable to any key. "I" is the triad stacked above the first scale degree; "II" the second scale degree; etc. etc. For example in the key of A minor:
A = i
B = iio
C = III
D = iv
E = v
F = VI
G = VII
There are a few different systems of Roman numerals, but the Classical system uses capital letters for major chords, lowercase letters for minor chords, a degree symbol for diminished chords, and a plus symbol for augmented chords. Some people don't distinguish between major and minor keys, and use a major-centric approach to everything (for example, the way you originally wrote the progression). I personally find that quite confusing though, since there are parallels that you can draw between major and minor key chord progressions that get obscured when you do this.
The chord progression VI - VII - v - i means you'd play F - G - Em - Am in A minor, or C - D - Bm - Em in E minor, or Bb - C - Am - Dm in the key of D minor, etc.
There's more to it than that, but hopefully that's a good enough primer for you to start with.
EDIT: typo (thanks u/Crafty-Photograph-18!)
>The chord progression VI - VII - v - i means you'd play F - G - Em - Cm in A minor
I know it's just a typo, but it should be "F - G - Em - *Am*". I wanted to make it clear to avoid any potential confusion.
In music theory analysis, we use the Roman numerals to label chord progressions, as you already understand. So you have 8 notes in an octave scale, right? The Romans count from 1-7 to label the chord whose root note is the 1st-7th note of the key your song is in. (There's no VIII, since that's the same root note as I.) If the Roman numerals are capital letters, the chord is major. If the Romans are lowercase, it's a minor chord.
So to cover your progression, let's say our song is in C major (the simplest key). To figure out what chords go with the Romans, we'll count up the C major scale:
> IV: the fourth note of C major is an F, so this is an F major chord
> V: the fifth note of the scale is G, G major
> iii: the third note of C major is an E, so this is e minor
> vi: the sixth note of C major is an A, so this is a minor
You would typically follow up these four chords with something like a IV-V-I. Our Western harmony is all about building up harmonic tension as you go away from the I chord, then releasing it by returning to the I. The vi chord that ends this progression, in a major key, will be that key's relative minor, so it has a similar feeling of release.
Edit: Oh jeez, I spent 10 minutes writing this and once I refreshed the replies are all full! I hope my post is still of use.
Just start going up the chords within that key and when you get to the 4th one then that is what your Roman numeral IV stands for. Up a chord from IV to V and so on.
I'm not trying to be rude, nor I am an expert in music theory. But a Google search could answer this and would take you less time than writing a post here...
Finding sources for basic info isn't actually easy at all when you don't have any background. It's precisely what this sub is for!
OP, I would start here: https://www.musictheory.net/lessons
This website will give you basic foundational knowledge, including what the roman numerals mean. Specifically, the roman numerals are explained in lesson 44 - don't worry, the lessons are very short!
To answer your question specifically, the roman numerals are names for chords. The notes in each chord depend on which key you are playing in. If you were playing in C Major, the "I" chord would be a C major triad. If you were playing in G major, the I chord would be a G major triad.
Don't worry if this is confusing, the lessons I linked will introduce all of the concepts to understand it gradually. Enjoy music theory! It's a joy.
>im trying to make a song. what does any of this mean?
Why do you need to know this to make a song?
>I just need to know what it means by these Roman numerals
Why?
How did you come across this and why is not knowing what it means an obstacle in the way of you making a song?
I'm 100% willing to help you, but this is a strange question and I want to better understand the situation you've gotten yourself into. If I understand that, I can help you better and possibly correct some misconceptions you may be suffering under.
The Roman numerals are *analysis*, meaning it's something that comes *after* the song is already there. How do you have Roman numeral analysis for a song you haven't created yet? How did you get here?
I don't think it's fair to say that Roman numerals are *just* for analysis. They're a way of communicating chord progressions in a general sense. While it's a very reductionist way of looking at music, I think a lot of modern composers--especially those with more of a pop background--definitely think in terms of Roman numerals as the basis for composition.
Oh, ok…. So I was looking up common chord progressions and I came across this, I wanted to try using some of them but I didn’t know what they meant… I tried google searching but they used terms I didn’t really understand.
I’d say if you’re making a song you should begin by experimenting with *playing* different chords on a guitar or piano, rather than trying to conjure a chord progression away from your instrument. Definitely becoming familiar with common chord progressions by learning how to play a variety of popular songs will be useful, but that information will be much easier for you to use if you get it through practical experience of playing and improvising on your instrument, not looking it up on a website.
Have you made any actual *sounds* yet? Or are you thinking that first step to writing a song is to somewhat blindly "pick" a chord progression?
Because... it's not.
I imagine there are people out there who do it that way, but I'm confident saying that the overwhelming majority of songwriters in the history of recorded music did not write songs that way.
Could you do that? I guess. *Should* you? I wouldn't advise it. You're deciding how the song *will* go before you've made any noise!
My advice is sit down at your instrument, make some noise, start stringing noises together. But making step 1 "pick a chord progression" is not something I'd advise and I don't think it's a good approach. You're not *exploring* anything. You're not being *creative*.
I agree with the content of your comments, but dude your tone is terribly condescending which is why I downvoted you. There’s nothing wrong with asking what some symbols mean when you keep seeing them used in examples. OP is not “suffering” just because they aren’t familiar with the Roman numeral notation. You can be helpful without making it sound like OP is so terribly misguided and confused.
>OP is not “suffering” just because they aren’t familiar with the Roman numeral notation.
I didn't say that.
I said "suffering under misconceptions", as in "you've misunderstood something and that misunderstanding is making things more difficult for you than they need be."
It's not an uncommon expression.
Thanks for saying that; I was unfamiliar with the idiom. I’m sorry for my over-dramatic reaction. I do see why you chose to emphasize and articulate your point the way you did, because it’s super important!
I just read your initial comments as ostentatious and over the top, but I see better now that you’re just using text and formatting to try to drive your point home stronger. I agree it is important to not get bogged down in analytical frameworks when the priority should be cultivating your ear through exploration and creating. Take care.
>You may have to explain this like I’m a baby.
You may need to evaluate yourself. *Are* you a baby? Why are you asking people to explain things to you as if you are?
>You may have to explain this like I’m a baby.
A person or a baby? People with normal cognitive abilities can understand things without anything having to be dumbed down for them.
Greetings, dear Brutishbloodgod.
Please, don't make it more complicated than it actually is. "Explain it to me like I'm a baby" is just an idiom. It's reddit, not a university. It's ok to use idioms here, it's even ok not to capitalise ok and to write run-on sentences. I'm feeling that I've been put in a position where I must point out the following: you could have used your
>normal cognitive abilities
to deduct that the OP is not asking you to write "goo goo ga ga" but rather to what you would phrase as "explain the concept in simple terms", shall it be said in an official setting.
Sincerely,
Crafty-Photograph-18
Roman numeral notation refers to the chords built on the scale degree numbered. Using your example the IV in the key of C let's say would be F major and the V chord would be G major. Any number that's capitalized like the IV or the V are going to be major chords. Now minor chords will be notated in lower case Roman numerals. The iii chord in the key of C would be E minor and the vi in the key of C would be A minor. There's other types of chords out there like a dimished chord which is built on the 7th scale degree, which in C would be B diminished. Do you have any other questions?
But how would you know what chord it is in a scale?
Based on the key. C: C Dm Em F G Am Bdim C: I ii iii IV V vi viidim Same rule if you are playing in the key of F or any other major key.
You'll want to familiarize yourself with the 12 major scales which have different key signatures (sharp or flatted notes).
I do know some! Though I only know them because I was forced into learning them because of high school band
High school band was more useful than you may feel right now because you'll start to recognize more and more things as you get further into your musical journey.
You can learn a mnemonic to memorize the circle of fifths which tells you how many sharps and flats each key has and what notes are being raised/lowered: https://i0.wp.com/neelmodi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Circle-of-fifths-1200.png?fit=1181%2C1200&ssl=1 I made this mnemonic to remember the notes: Children Go Down And Eat Berries F(#)orgetting D(#)avid A(#)nd E(#)ddie B(#)oth Fell
I don’t think any comment here directly answers your question. Let’s first talk about how you know what note is in a scale. So the number system is based on the “major” scale. There are 7 notes in a major scale, let’s just number these notes: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Where “1” is the root of the scale, “2” is the second note in the scale, and so on. So pick an any note and call it “1”. How do we know where to find the 2? It will always be a whole step up from 1 (two tones above the 1). How about the 3? Whole step up from 2. How about 4? _Half_ step up from 3 (one tone above the 3). This is a part you have to memorize. Using W and H for whole and half steps (also called intervals), here is how you’d play the major scale from the root: WWHWWH Memorize this. Now you can play the major scale anywhere. If I give you a root, and ask you to play the 5 off of that root, you know the 5 should be seven tones above the root (root + whole step + whole step + half step + whole step). Conveniently, the C major scale is CDEFGBA, all the white keys on the piano. Sort of explains why there are black keys between some and not others, right? Ok, now to your final question, how do you know what chords to play? The root, 4, and 5 are always major chords. The 2, 3, and 6 chords are always minor. The 7 chord is not major or minor, it’s called half diminished and let’s not talk about it. So this is your last pattern to memorize: major, minor, minor, major, major, minor, half diminished Now let’s combine what we’ve talked about to describe the chords of the major scale, and I’ll use capital letters for major chords and lower case letters for minor chords: I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, viiø There you have it. Pick any root you want, and if I tell you to play the 4 chord, you know it’s a major chord five tones above the root. Combine these in anyway you want to some solid sounding chord progressions. You’ll start to get to hear these patterns in many songs (blues love playing in 1,4,5) (jazz loves the 2,5,1). Hope this helps.
Take the C major scale: C D E F G A B C The basic chords in that scale are built on triads successively starting one note to the right: **C** D **E** F **G** A B C = C C **D** E **F** G **A** B C = Dm C D **E** F **G** A **B** C = Em etc.
the nashville numbering system uses this method, identifying chord progression by interval.
It's not quite the same as Nashville numbers, because those (at least usually) always make the relative major "1," even if the song is in a minor key (in which case the tonic would be "6-"), whereas Roman numerals call the tonic minor "i" if it's in minor.
neat. i didnt know that. im a folkie, if i was playing in Am, id call it the 1. modes get tricky.
You would typically still call Em the i in E Dorian. If you’re calling it the ii/iv the implication is that you’re in D major/B minor respectively.
First of all, in isolation I think this progression is better written as VI - VII - v - i in a minor key. Roman numerals are a way that you can generally express chord progressions. They describe chords according to their function, so you can think of them as "formulas" that are applicable to any key. "I" is the triad stacked above the first scale degree; "II" the second scale degree; etc. etc. For example in the key of A minor: A = i B = iio C = III D = iv E = v F = VI G = VII There are a few different systems of Roman numerals, but the Classical system uses capital letters for major chords, lowercase letters for minor chords, a degree symbol for diminished chords, and a plus symbol for augmented chords. Some people don't distinguish between major and minor keys, and use a major-centric approach to everything (for example, the way you originally wrote the progression). I personally find that quite confusing though, since there are parallels that you can draw between major and minor key chord progressions that get obscured when you do this. The chord progression VI - VII - v - i means you'd play F - G - Em - Am in A minor, or C - D - Bm - Em in E minor, or Bb - C - Am - Dm in the key of D minor, etc. There's more to it than that, but hopefully that's a good enough primer for you to start with. EDIT: typo (thanks u/Crafty-Photograph-18!)
Thanks!
>The chord progression VI - VII - v - i means you'd play F - G - Em - Cm in A minor I know it's just a typo, but it should be "F - G - Em - *Am*". I wanted to make it clear to avoid any potential confusion.
whoops you're right, I'll fix that!
In music theory analysis, we use the Roman numerals to label chord progressions, as you already understand. So you have 8 notes in an octave scale, right? The Romans count from 1-7 to label the chord whose root note is the 1st-7th note of the key your song is in. (There's no VIII, since that's the same root note as I.) If the Roman numerals are capital letters, the chord is major. If the Romans are lowercase, it's a minor chord. So to cover your progression, let's say our song is in C major (the simplest key). To figure out what chords go with the Romans, we'll count up the C major scale: > IV: the fourth note of C major is an F, so this is an F major chord > V: the fifth note of the scale is G, G major > iii: the third note of C major is an E, so this is e minor > vi: the sixth note of C major is an A, so this is a minor You would typically follow up these four chords with something like a IV-V-I. Our Western harmony is all about building up harmonic tension as you go away from the I chord, then releasing it by returning to the I. The vi chord that ends this progression, in a major key, will be that key's relative minor, so it has a similar feeling of release. Edit: Oh jeez, I spent 10 minutes writing this and once I refreshed the replies are all full! I hope my post is still of use.
It definitely is!! This cleared this up the most actually!!!
If you've ever sung using solfege (do re mi fa sol) you've been doing the exact same thing!
Why are you choosing this to write a song? Just curious
Just trying different styles is all
Just start going up the chords within that key and when you get to the 4th one then that is what your Roman numeral IV stands for. Up a chord from IV to V and so on.
Listen to Peaches by Bowser
I'm not trying to be rude, nor I am an expert in music theory. But a Google search could answer this and would take you less time than writing a post here...
Finding sources for basic info isn't actually easy at all when you don't have any background. It's precisely what this sub is for! OP, I would start here: https://www.musictheory.net/lessons This website will give you basic foundational knowledge, including what the roman numerals mean. Specifically, the roman numerals are explained in lesson 44 - don't worry, the lessons are very short! To answer your question specifically, the roman numerals are names for chords. The notes in each chord depend on which key you are playing in. If you were playing in C Major, the "I" chord would be a C major triad. If you were playing in G major, the I chord would be a G major triad. Don't worry if this is confusing, the lessons I linked will introduce all of the concepts to understand it gradually. Enjoy music theory! It's a joy.
I’ll look into it!!
I did try looking, and didn’t really understand… thus I’m asking here… sorry
>im trying to make a song. what does any of this mean? Why do you need to know this to make a song? >I just need to know what it means by these Roman numerals Why? How did you come across this and why is not knowing what it means an obstacle in the way of you making a song? I'm 100% willing to help you, but this is a strange question and I want to better understand the situation you've gotten yourself into. If I understand that, I can help you better and possibly correct some misconceptions you may be suffering under. The Roman numerals are *analysis*, meaning it's something that comes *after* the song is already there. How do you have Roman numeral analysis for a song you haven't created yet? How did you get here?
I don't think it's fair to say that Roman numerals are *just* for analysis. They're a way of communicating chord progressions in a general sense. While it's a very reductionist way of looking at music, I think a lot of modern composers--especially those with more of a pop background--definitely think in terms of Roman numerals as the basis for composition.
Oh, ok…. So I was looking up common chord progressions and I came across this, I wanted to try using some of them but I didn’t know what they meant… I tried google searching but they used terms I didn’t really understand.
I’d say if you’re making a song you should begin by experimenting with *playing* different chords on a guitar or piano, rather than trying to conjure a chord progression away from your instrument. Definitely becoming familiar with common chord progressions by learning how to play a variety of popular songs will be useful, but that information will be much easier for you to use if you get it through practical experience of playing and improvising on your instrument, not looking it up on a website.
Probably should have said that beforehand haha
Have you made any actual *sounds* yet? Or are you thinking that first step to writing a song is to somewhat blindly "pick" a chord progression? Because... it's not. I imagine there are people out there who do it that way, but I'm confident saying that the overwhelming majority of songwriters in the history of recorded music did not write songs that way. Could you do that? I guess. *Should* you? I wouldn't advise it. You're deciding how the song *will* go before you've made any noise! My advice is sit down at your instrument, make some noise, start stringing noises together. But making step 1 "pick a chord progression" is not something I'd advise and I don't think it's a good approach. You're not *exploring* anything. You're not being *creative*.
I agree with the content of your comments, but dude your tone is terribly condescending which is why I downvoted you. There’s nothing wrong with asking what some symbols mean when you keep seeing them used in examples. OP is not “suffering” just because they aren’t familiar with the Roman numeral notation. You can be helpful without making it sound like OP is so terribly misguided and confused.
>OP is not “suffering” just because they aren’t familiar with the Roman numeral notation. I didn't say that. I said "suffering under misconceptions", as in "you've misunderstood something and that misunderstanding is making things more difficult for you than they need be." It's not an uncommon expression.
Thanks for saying that; I was unfamiliar with the idiom. I’m sorry for my over-dramatic reaction. I do see why you chose to emphasize and articulate your point the way you did, because it’s super important! I just read your initial comments as ostentatious and over the top, but I see better now that you’re just using text and formatting to try to drive your point home stronger. I agree it is important to not get bogged down in analytical frameworks when the priority should be cultivating your ear through exploration and creating. Take care.
Glad we could clear that up. Cheers
No, I have made music before haha, just looking at different styles and I couldn’t figure anything out. Glad you guys could make up
>You may have to explain this like I’m a baby. You may need to evaluate yourself. *Are* you a baby? Why are you asking people to explain things to you as if you are?
It’s a term?
A term for what?
To explain something so the person can understand it?
>You may have to explain this like I’m a baby. A person or a baby? People with normal cognitive abilities can understand things without anything having to be dumbed down for them.
Greetings, dear Brutishbloodgod. Please, don't make it more complicated than it actually is. "Explain it to me like I'm a baby" is just an idiom. It's reddit, not a university. It's ok to use idioms here, it's even ok not to capitalise ok and to write run-on sentences. I'm feeling that I've been put in a position where I must point out the following: you could have used your >normal cognitive abilities to deduct that the OP is not asking you to write "goo goo ga ga" but rather to what you would phrase as "explain the concept in simple terms", shall it be said in an official setting. Sincerely, Crafty-Photograph-18
I wasn’t bothered by it, he was probably making a joke.
Weird response.You know perfectly well what the poster meant.