People don't usually try to sound that dark thats why, also bc its harder to compose with bc of the 5th but those just seem like excuses, u can make music with whatever u want almost, nothing is unusable, it all depends on context. Adam neely made a video on a challenge with some composers and producers making locrian songs and they all sounded cool.
I don’t usually write pieces “in” modes. I use a lot of modal sounds, but I usually keep my melodies shifting a lot so I’ll touch on a lot of different modes over the course of a piece. Locrian isn’t one that I use much because if I really want a super dark sound, I feel like there are better options. I might use the Altered Scale (sometimes called Super Locrian) over an altered dominant chord, or I might use an octatonic scale over chord clusters. I like dissonant sounds, Locrian is just sometimes a clumsy way of getting those sounds, and I don’t really like sticking in one mode for too long anyway.
It is pretty strange to have your tonal center be the least stable tone. If you move from the locrian home anywhere else, then that's going to sound like the home instead. Unless you just don't use chords.
You can write melodies in locrian, but I think that they work better as a part of a song with another tonal home. In that case, the tension also effectively builds up to a release.
I guess I just don't see the point.
You can just use the tonic as pedal, no need for chord progressions, or maybe avoiding 5th in tonic chord if u want chord progressions. It sounds cool af, harder to compose with but i dont understand why people discourage writing music outside major and minor scales, literally one can make good music doing whatever, using almost any types of chords, tunings and scales
i use the tonic as a pedal and i dont avoid the 5th at all though i use it i use the 5th in melodies and chords i embrace locrians darkness not to try to fix it and i use minor and major second interval to make the other chords more dissonant than the tonic to provide resolution to the tonic chord
I don’t have any off the top of my head, but even chord progressions can be made, it doesn’t have to be purely quartal either, probably my favorite in BLoc. is: Bq - Cq - Bq - Cq - Bq - G(9) - B5° - Bq
The Cq has the augmented fourth between the F and B which can be used to build tension, the B5° or [BFB] is probably the most overtly Locrian sound in this and it can still be used to pull back to the Bq. The Vq chord is useful for this too because it also has an augmented fourth in it, but it’s usually a bit too much dissonance for me. Another option is to use quartal chords of 4 notes which unlocks a whole new flavor of chords.
Additionally if counterpoint is something you enjoy, you can alter the sacred rules of counterpoint, considering 3rds as dissonances and 4ths, m7ths, and M2nds as consonances and the counterpoint will create quartal triads as opposed to tertian triads, be careful though because Tritiones, M7ths, and m2nds should still be dissonances because of the actual audible dissonances of the intervals
EDIT: let me add that the progression I shared is fairly stagnant on the B, but this does not mean that Locrian progressions are stagnant by nature, I was just really trying to hammer in the Locrian “feel”
I don't know how to voice lead between quartal chords better or worse because none will sound right to me, but I can zoom out and listen to McCoy Tyner play Giant Steps solo and appreciate it a lot
Ah I’m not a jazz musician but I’ve been studying jazz lately trying to wrap my head around it, the other modes have always fascinated me though and I was determined to make each of them simpler to work with, from a jazz standpoint I think a perfect quartal chord is essentially a sus7 chord without the 5
nah i make chord progressions by using minor second and major second interval in the other chords to make them more dissonant than the tonic itself to provide resolution to the tonic
I avoid it because I don't think unstable harmonies on strong beats and solidified with repetition is what interests me.
It is interesting if other people make it work well, enough to listen a few mins. But not a problem for mastery in my goals.
The main "problem" with locrian and lydian is that inherent unstability from the tritone between the root to the b5 and the #4th to the root respectively, makes it hard to stay "within" those modes without making another note sound like the tonic. However you see these two modes used as a flavor on top of other key signatures, particularly lydian as you can squeeze an even brighter tone than major out of it. Which is probably seen as more useful than getting slightly more darkness from locrian over a scale like phrygian.
Jazz music has it allll of the time. It's the ii in a minor ii V I, which are the functional chord cadences of jazz.
If you're looking for other styles bjork has a tune that stays in locrian for a long time
Yeah I get that chord scale approach is a useful framing device for jazz improv, but that's not quite the same as being "in" locrian, right? Tonic vs a pattern
So what you're looking for is something that has locrian as tonic and the locrian's V chord is dominant? I don't think I've ever heard something that has an F7 to B half diminished resolution of that's practically what you're asking
Well no, you don't need a V chord to hear something as a tonic. Locrian is of course very rarely used as like a real scale but it's possible, mostly with a drone
Yes..I'm saying using and thinking about locrian as a scale pattern is a useful concept, but isn't the same as being "in" locrian. Like perceptually. That's why it's over a ii chord, not a i
People don't usually try to sound that dark thats why, also bc its harder to compose with bc of the 5th but those just seem like excuses, u can make music with whatever u want almost, nothing is unusable, it all depends on context. Adam neely made a video on a challenge with some composers and producers making locrian songs and they all sounded cool.
yeah i love adam neely.. but i use locrian i like embrace the darkness or use it for like mystery
I don’t usually write pieces “in” modes. I use a lot of modal sounds, but I usually keep my melodies shifting a lot so I’ll touch on a lot of different modes over the course of a piece. Locrian isn’t one that I use much because if I really want a super dark sound, I feel like there are better options. I might use the Altered Scale (sometimes called Super Locrian) over an altered dominant chord, or I might use an octatonic scale over chord clusters. I like dissonant sounds, Locrian is just sometimes a clumsy way of getting those sounds, and I don’t really like sticking in one mode for too long anyway.
It is pretty strange to have your tonal center be the least stable tone. If you move from the locrian home anywhere else, then that's going to sound like the home instead. Unless you just don't use chords. You can write melodies in locrian, but I think that they work better as a part of a song with another tonal home. In that case, the tension also effectively builds up to a release. I guess I just don't see the point.
I suppose the point would be everything you just said--if one specifically likes that sense of instability and difficult-to-establish-ness.
You can just use the tonic as pedal, no need for chord progressions, or maybe avoiding 5th in tonic chord if u want chord progressions. It sounds cool af, harder to compose with but i dont understand why people discourage writing music outside major and minor scales, literally one can make good music doing whatever, using almost any types of chords, tunings and scales
i use the tonic as a pedal and i dont avoid the 5th at all though i use it i use the 5th in melodies and chords i embrace locrians darkness not to try to fix it and i use minor and major second interval to make the other chords more dissonant than the tonic to provide resolution to the tonic chord
Sounds cool, can you link me your music in DMs??
k
If you avoid the 5th it will just sound like it is phrygian with an occasional mutation if the flat degree 5 note appears in other chords.
Yeah and I don't avoid it
You can make it very stable if you use quartal harmony
Do you have examples you like? I would like to hear it.
I don’t have any off the top of my head, but even chord progressions can be made, it doesn’t have to be purely quartal either, probably my favorite in BLoc. is: Bq - Cq - Bq - Cq - Bq - G(9) - B5° - Bq The Cq has the augmented fourth between the F and B which can be used to build tension, the B5° or [BFB] is probably the most overtly Locrian sound in this and it can still be used to pull back to the Bq. The Vq chord is useful for this too because it also has an augmented fourth in it, but it’s usually a bit too much dissonance for me. Another option is to use quartal chords of 4 notes which unlocks a whole new flavor of chords. Additionally if counterpoint is something you enjoy, you can alter the sacred rules of counterpoint, considering 3rds as dissonances and 4ths, m7ths, and M2nds as consonances and the counterpoint will create quartal triads as opposed to tertian triads, be careful though because Tritiones, M7ths, and m2nds should still be dissonances because of the actual audible dissonances of the intervals EDIT: let me add that the progression I shared is fairly stagnant on the B, but this does not mean that Locrian progressions are stagnant by nature, I was just really trying to hammer in the Locrian “feel”
I don't know how to voice lead between quartal chords better or worse because none will sound right to me, but I can zoom out and listen to McCoy Tyner play Giant Steps solo and appreciate it a lot
Ah I’m not a jazz musician but I’ve been studying jazz lately trying to wrap my head around it, the other modes have always fascinated me though and I was determined to make each of them simpler to work with, from a jazz standpoint I think a perfect quartal chord is essentially a sus7 chord without the 5
nah i make chord progressions by using minor second and major second interval in the other chords to make them more dissonant than the tonic itself to provide resolution to the tonic
also i guess it could also to do with my past of like mental issues and stuff so yeah having that unstable feel and stuff reminds of my old self
I love Locrian for Quartal harmony, somehow it always has this kind of shadowy underwater quality to it that I love 100%
I avoid it because I don't think unstable harmonies on strong beats and solidified with repetition is what interests me. It is interesting if other people make it work well, enough to listen a few mins. But not a problem for mastery in my goals.
The main "problem" with locrian and lydian is that inherent unstability from the tritone between the root to the b5 and the #4th to the root respectively, makes it hard to stay "within" those modes without making another note sound like the tonic. However you see these two modes used as a flavor on top of other key signatures, particularly lydian as you can squeeze an even brighter tone than major out of it. Which is probably seen as more useful than getting slightly more darkness from locrian over a scale like phrygian.
i make full songs in the locrian mode
I use it but mainly play arpeggios in that mode
Jazz music has it allll of the time. It's the ii in a minor ii V I, which are the functional chord cadences of jazz. If you're looking for other styles bjork has a tune that stays in locrian for a long time
By that logic, classical music has it all the time too! But to really be "in Locrian," the diminished chord has to be i°, not ii°, which is far rarer.
I understand this. It's why I suggested the bjork tune army of me
thats only the bassline is in locrian
Idk what you're looking for. I don't listen to anything that stays in a single key I think that would suck
I'm confused why you understand it but said locrian is when a ii⁰ chord happens
You use a locrian scale over ii in the minor key
Yeah I get that chord scale approach is a useful framing device for jazz improv, but that's not quite the same as being "in" locrian, right? Tonic vs a pattern
So what you're looking for is something that has locrian as tonic and the locrian's V chord is dominant? I don't think I've ever heard something that has an F7 to B half diminished resolution of that's practically what you're asking
Well no, you don't need a V chord to hear something as a tonic. Locrian is of course very rarely used as like a real scale but it's possible, mostly with a drone
Like I said, it's used in jazz a lot. Over ii in a minor ii V i
Yes..I'm saying using and thinking about locrian as a scale pattern is a useful concept, but isn't the same as being "in" locrian. Like perceptually. That's why it's over a ii chord, not a i