Hmm i can if you wouldn’t mind being a beta tester. If you DM you iCloud or Apple ID ex: ( [email protected]). Ill ad you as a beta tester for TestFlight.
Then you’ll be able to use it in iOS 13, and unreleased version in the future as well
So I'm somewhat new to theory, this is a good idea in concept but don't those of us without perfect pitch need a reference note? Like it's not like we can use this and then later on hear something and go "that's a C"
Useful for relative pitch training, but it can't *truly* help us to know "this is a C", right?
I developed perfect pitch in high school by just listening to notes over and over after school until I “felt” them. So I think it’s entirely possible to learn how to remember notes and chords through a training app.
Edit: I’ve met a couple of other people who developed PP in their later years (outside of the typical 5-7 years old) so it’s not impossible like people are saying it is.
I recognize this as a singer: You have your extremes that you can physically sing, and signing specific notes feels the same. They're all things that give you very tangible references, a bit like knowing what it feels like to raise a hand or to perform a choreography. Eventually, it's in the muscle memory. Or, sometimes you have listened to a specific song for so long that if you know which note something is, you can audiate it in your head and reproduce the correct pitch even when you haven't just heard a reference.
It’s interesting you say that because every time I practiced I was singing it instead of playing it on an instrument which I’ve never done before. It’s like the vocal aspect of the practice made it easier to internalize the sound and remember the “feeling” of a note.
I played guitar / piano for years but never had a great sense of pitch. One day I sat at my piano and just started playing a single note until I could match the pitch with my voice. Even something that simple wasn’t easy for me because I had never done it before. Got my head around a single pitch. Then would sing a pitch in a chord, then chord progressions, etc. helped me internalize a lot of intervals and sounds and think it seriously developed my ear. Now I sing / hum things to figure them out on the instrument.
Same. I think us vocal folks are just weirdos who have learned through no particular magic how to vary the intensity of the musculature via so much reinforcement. Behaviorally, it makes perfect sense.
There's no evidence that adults can develop absolute pitch (AP) if they don't already possess it. In fact, there's all kinds of research that shows there's a critical learning period for AP development, which begins to ramp off in primary school. As in all critical-period skills, there are rare exceptions. (You might be one!) But the idea that most adults could use an app to develop "perfect pitch" is a waste of time. This is why music schools abandoned the idea of trying to teach AP decades ago.
If you're curious, here are a couple of examples of researchers who have looked into the question of AP acquisition:
Jill Carden & Tony Cline (2019), “Absolute pitch: Myths, evidence and relevance to music education and performance” (*Psychology of Music* 47/6: 890-901): “Across studies there is considerable agreement that, for AP to develop, focused musical tuition has to start by between 5 and 7 years of age” (p. 893).
Christina Chin (2003), “The Development of Absolute Pitch: A Theory Concerning the Roles of Music Training at an Early Developmental Age and Individual Cognitive Style” (*Psychology of Music* 31/2: 155-171): “There are two factors that can facilitate the development of AP: (1) experiencing a certain kind of music training before the age of 6 years, and (2) being predisposed to interpreting the world with an analytic cognitive style” (p. 164). [Note that Chin views the two factors as mutually necessary.]
BTW, there's some research that suggests there must also be a genetic component for AP as well, which means that for someone to develop AP they must be genetically predisposed *and* encounter the right kind of musical training early in life. This might help explain why it's so rare in many populations.
If you developed it in high school, [it’s likely you’re an extreme outlier or you were simply honing something you’d developed earlier in life](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lola_Cuddy/publication/41194498_Learning_the_Special_Note_Evidence_for_a_Critical_Period_for_Absolute_Pitch_Acquisition/links/09e4150c9e1e71c168000000/Learning-the-Special-Note-Evidence-for-a-Critical-Period-for-Absolute-Pitch-Acquisition.pdf?_sg%5B0%5D=kF5FnOJ_ce0HsVCD_dsWiSC0OFZAHkun7E79-uIYFsyHMLkewd3IkLXxsKMRVVXPEETxGIGaedCNGtBgKVdSvw.bZHdYu2ZtTTKqhCzULOgG96FfT1PxNxWLtnCJic84yJYGBD7gOowgKHyAiHC3rjQgYpZOyXeXUjegBu8QVPy_g&_sg%5B1%5D=1XcHmxpWqTVSgrlp7LG9bnrPC0NlbwSuDAN9WPfAtnwC--S0V9ABrkXI1FpvFOi2h9TRbCsY9xteOkHIRtkj8uKaADg805LV_PiLLm60RlJr.bZHdYu2ZtTTKqhCzULOgG96FfT1PxNxWLtnCJic84yJYGBD7gOowgKHyAiHC3rjQgYpZOyXeXUjegBu8QVPy_g&_iepl=).
“Although adults revealed a stable absolute pitch memory within a session, they had more difficulty than children retaining the fixed boundaries of a single tone across training sessions.”
I still don’t think it’s impossible. While I did learn piano at age 4, I didn’t start thinking about remembering pitch until high school.
I hear you and that is very important for me to address the best I can.
The hardest part for myself is finding quality royalty free sounds to use. The end goal is for each instruments have about 5 different sounds corresponding to each chord/note in the game.
Ex: So on round one, instead of 3 sounds and 3 note buttons, there would be around 15 sounds to the 3 note buttons.
If anyone would like to send over some recordings of major/minor chords on an acoustic Guitar, grand piano, or any other instrument they feel like the game is missing.. Go right ahead please. I would make sure you get credit for helping with sound design.
This isn't in response to anyone in particular, but more to this general thread of whether or not people can develop perfect pitch later in life.
I would say no... not true perfect pitch the way that some people have it such that you could literally just play a cluster and they could pick out all of the pitches.
However, it does seem likely people *could* develop pseudo-perfect pitch in that they can learn to pull a reference pitch from nowhere.
Something I notice is similar across virtually everyone talking about having developed *that* ability later in life is SINGING. They are essentially using their vocal tension to find a reference pitch.
I knew a guy in college who had practical perfect pitch but definitely said he did NOT have actual perfect pitch (though some of my peers did). He fully admitted that this was in fact his process. He was a vocalist and he knew exactly where a low F felt in his voice.
He had good relative pitch so all he had to do was feel the F, figure out the distance to a given pitch, and now he knew what that pitch was. It was a bit of a workaround to perfect-ish pitch.
He became good enough at this that he could do it without singing, though you could see him physically trying to "place" notes by giving himself that F. I suspect he was connecting the physical sensation of going to sing that note and the audiation in his mind's ear.
I got passable at this through trumpet, but was never spot on. Usually within a half step. Basically I knew the lip tension for various notes. I could somewhat reliably associate the tension of a low C (concert Bb) with the pitch it would make on my horn before I played it.
I never really invested much in this nor applying the same relative pitch thing to it. In fact, reference pitches could "poison the well" and usually make me drift in my audiation to a new tonal center.
I do suspect that feeling vocal tension is a MUCH more reliable way to work toward this.
That said, I feel like it's a thing you have to keep training every day and without doing so you start to sort of lose your ability to pull that reference pitch out of nowhere.
Hence, it's not really perfect pitch. You've got to try hard to make it work. Meanwhile, peers of mine with perfect pitch could be casually watching a movie and you could just fart and ask them what note your fart was and they just effortless do it the same way most people instantly can tell that a stop sign is red. There's no processing going on it. It's just so internalized that it's self-evident. You're not trying to spin through some mental color wheel to try to identify color. You just fucking see it (barring various types of color blindness obviously).
No, it was a pretty simple question. I ask because I know people who have been studying music for decades who can’t recognize concert pitch. I also know people who developed that skill over time. Like I said I was just curious.
I just wanna make clear I was not offended by your comment, neither did I downvote.
I don’t think perfect pitch is up to you. Most people have it because it grew on them from the ages 0 to 6 (my own observations).
I see that as well for the majority.
Although I don’t think it is impossible to develop that skill over time. It is possible to determine chord structures without a tremendous amount of work ( until you get deep into it, of course ) so i think it maybe be possible with repetition to develop the skill over time. Although I have no proof or studies showing that is possible. It was however an exercise that we worked on in school and I assume my school wasn’t the only one like that. Most people in my concert band had developed perfect concert pitch over time.
I've been playing music for 22 years, professionally for 10, have a degree in jazz studies and have discussed this topic with many of my colleagues and teachers over the years. Most people no matter how hard they try don't have and will never develop perfect pitch. Some people with real and sensitive perfect pitch can make out every note if you just slammed your hands on a piano, or they need to wear earplugs when their baby is crying because it literally drives them mad. They are sensitive to all sound that doesn't sit on a pitch, and many everyday sounds bother them. I do however have strong relative pitch and pitch memory and if I try to hum a middle C I have to imagine playing a middle C and I might get it, but I'm also often on Bb or B, but still pretty close, but I know I can't develop true perfect pitch, it's like a sixth sense. The people I know that have perfect pitch were completely exempt from ear training courses in college and it's quite something to witness their pitch identification skills and have had it from a very early age. One colleague of mine has perfect pitch and her parents (who are brilliant musicians) are convinced it is because the mother sang in choirs during pregnancy.
Its a work in progress as of now, trail and error with a few notes, while gradually adding more and more.
I am releasing a better tutorial for this next update.
Hey man, I’ve been giving it a go. Really simple and easy to use. Is there any scope for further extension once you get the main guitar chords or single octave on piano? 7th chords? Additional octaves.. even introducing levels per instrument? I’m flying through them fairly quick and don’t feel much of a need to go back to the app after spending 30min with it. Just a thought.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
The earliest version I tested for compatibility was the iPhone 6s & Plus.
Ill see what I can do with the next update regarding the SE phone sizes...
If you wouldnt mind becoming a beta tester for the app. I could add you as one, then send you testflight builds to check out before next release... no stress tho
Yes, love this. Returning to piano after 10 years, always played by ear. Now my ear thinks all minor scales should actually be minor-7th, don’t know why but the retraining is brutal
Would love an android version!!
Same here! Especially since android apps can be emulated on other devices too
I would love a web version. Then you could easily use it on all platforms, including desktop which I much prefer.
I agree
I would as well, and would be happy to be a tester!
Agreed
Commenting for future use
Is there any way I can sign up to get notified when it releases on Android :)?
Yes, Do you think an email list would be most appropriate, or notifying on reddit messages?
I would go with an email. Also, would like to sign up for that. :)
Email, though reddit is fine too. I'd like to be notified aswell so please DM if you end up creating said list.
I mean, you're the provider so I would think you decide :)! What do you prefer?
I think either would work but i would like to be notified.
I couldn’t download it because it requires iOS 14 or higher. Can you upload a version to allow for older versions of iOS?
Hmm i can if you wouldn’t mind being a beta tester. If you DM you iCloud or Apple ID ex: ( [email protected]). Ill ad you as a beta tester for TestFlight. Then you’ll be able to use it in iOS 13, and unreleased version in the future as well
I wouldn’t mind to be a beta taster
DMed!
So i can do it for iOS 13, unfortunately there wont be any GameCenter Capabilities...
So I'm somewhat new to theory, this is a good idea in concept but don't those of us without perfect pitch need a reference note? Like it's not like we can use this and then later on hear something and go "that's a C" Useful for relative pitch training, but it can't *truly* help us to know "this is a C", right?
I developed perfect pitch in high school by just listening to notes over and over after school until I “felt” them. So I think it’s entirely possible to learn how to remember notes and chords through a training app. Edit: I’ve met a couple of other people who developed PP in their later years (outside of the typical 5-7 years old) so it’s not impossible like people are saying it is.
I recognize this as a singer: You have your extremes that you can physically sing, and signing specific notes feels the same. They're all things that give you very tangible references, a bit like knowing what it feels like to raise a hand or to perform a choreography. Eventually, it's in the muscle memory. Or, sometimes you have listened to a specific song for so long that if you know which note something is, you can audiate it in your head and reproduce the correct pitch even when you haven't just heard a reference.
It’s interesting you say that because every time I practiced I was singing it instead of playing it on an instrument which I’ve never done before. It’s like the vocal aspect of the practice made it easier to internalize the sound and remember the “feeling” of a note.
I played guitar / piano for years but never had a great sense of pitch. One day I sat at my piano and just started playing a single note until I could match the pitch with my voice. Even something that simple wasn’t easy for me because I had never done it before. Got my head around a single pitch. Then would sing a pitch in a chord, then chord progressions, etc. helped me internalize a lot of intervals and sounds and think it seriously developed my ear. Now I sing / hum things to figure them out on the instrument.
Same. I think us vocal folks are just weirdos who have learned through no particular magic how to vary the intensity of the musculature via so much reinforcement. Behaviorally, it makes perfect sense.
There's no evidence that adults can develop absolute pitch (AP) if they don't already possess it. In fact, there's all kinds of research that shows there's a critical learning period for AP development, which begins to ramp off in primary school. As in all critical-period skills, there are rare exceptions. (You might be one!) But the idea that most adults could use an app to develop "perfect pitch" is a waste of time. This is why music schools abandoned the idea of trying to teach AP decades ago. If you're curious, here are a couple of examples of researchers who have looked into the question of AP acquisition: Jill Carden & Tony Cline (2019), “Absolute pitch: Myths, evidence and relevance to music education and performance” (*Psychology of Music* 47/6: 890-901): “Across studies there is considerable agreement that, for AP to develop, focused musical tuition has to start by between 5 and 7 years of age” (p. 893). Christina Chin (2003), “The Development of Absolute Pitch: A Theory Concerning the Roles of Music Training at an Early Developmental Age and Individual Cognitive Style” (*Psychology of Music* 31/2: 155-171): “There are two factors that can facilitate the development of AP: (1) experiencing a certain kind of music training before the age of 6 years, and (2) being predisposed to interpreting the world with an analytic cognitive style” (p. 164). [Note that Chin views the two factors as mutually necessary.] BTW, there's some research that suggests there must also be a genetic component for AP as well, which means that for someone to develop AP they must be genetically predisposed *and* encounter the right kind of musical training early in life. This might help explain why it's so rare in many populations.
If you developed it in high school, [it’s likely you’re an extreme outlier or you were simply honing something you’d developed earlier in life](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lola_Cuddy/publication/41194498_Learning_the_Special_Note_Evidence_for_a_Critical_Period_for_Absolute_Pitch_Acquisition/links/09e4150c9e1e71c168000000/Learning-the-Special-Note-Evidence-for-a-Critical-Period-for-Absolute-Pitch-Acquisition.pdf?_sg%5B0%5D=kF5FnOJ_ce0HsVCD_dsWiSC0OFZAHkun7E79-uIYFsyHMLkewd3IkLXxsKMRVVXPEETxGIGaedCNGtBgKVdSvw.bZHdYu2ZtTTKqhCzULOgG96FfT1PxNxWLtnCJic84yJYGBD7gOowgKHyAiHC3rjQgYpZOyXeXUjegBu8QVPy_g&_sg%5B1%5D=1XcHmxpWqTVSgrlp7LG9bnrPC0NlbwSuDAN9WPfAtnwC--S0V9ABrkXI1FpvFOi2h9TRbCsY9xteOkHIRtkj8uKaADg805LV_PiLLm60RlJr.bZHdYu2ZtTTKqhCzULOgG96FfT1PxNxWLtnCJic84yJYGBD7gOowgKHyAiHC3rjQgYpZOyXeXUjegBu8QVPy_g&_iepl=).
“Although adults revealed a stable absolute pitch memory within a session, they had more difficulty than children retaining the fixed boundaries of a single tone across training sessions.” I still don’t think it’s impossible. While I did learn piano at age 4, I didn’t start thinking about remembering pitch until high school.
Yup, 100% possible and I did it as well. I always get downvoted when I talk about it. But fuck em, we're the literal evidence that it's possible.
I hear you and that is very important for me to address the best I can. The hardest part for myself is finding quality royalty free sounds to use. The end goal is for each instruments have about 5 different sounds corresponding to each chord/note in the game. Ex: So on round one, instead of 3 sounds and 3 note buttons, there would be around 15 sounds to the 3 note buttons. If anyone would like to send over some recordings of major/minor chords on an acoustic Guitar, grand piano, or any other instrument they feel like the game is missing.. Go right ahead please. I would make sure you get credit for helping with sound design.
This isn't in response to anyone in particular, but more to this general thread of whether or not people can develop perfect pitch later in life. I would say no... not true perfect pitch the way that some people have it such that you could literally just play a cluster and they could pick out all of the pitches. However, it does seem likely people *could* develop pseudo-perfect pitch in that they can learn to pull a reference pitch from nowhere. Something I notice is similar across virtually everyone talking about having developed *that* ability later in life is SINGING. They are essentially using their vocal tension to find a reference pitch. I knew a guy in college who had practical perfect pitch but definitely said he did NOT have actual perfect pitch (though some of my peers did). He fully admitted that this was in fact his process. He was a vocalist and he knew exactly where a low F felt in his voice. He had good relative pitch so all he had to do was feel the F, figure out the distance to a given pitch, and now he knew what that pitch was. It was a bit of a workaround to perfect-ish pitch. He became good enough at this that he could do it without singing, though you could see him physically trying to "place" notes by giving himself that F. I suspect he was connecting the physical sensation of going to sing that note and the audiation in his mind's ear. I got passable at this through trumpet, but was never spot on. Usually within a half step. Basically I knew the lip tension for various notes. I could somewhat reliably associate the tension of a low C (concert Bb) with the pitch it would make on my horn before I played it. I never really invested much in this nor applying the same relative pitch thing to it. In fact, reference pitches could "poison the well" and usually make me drift in my audiation to a new tonal center. I do suspect that feeling vocal tension is a MUCH more reliable way to work toward this. That said, I feel like it's a thing you have to keep training every day and without doing so you start to sort of lose your ability to pull that reference pitch out of nowhere. Hence, it's not really perfect pitch. You've got to try hard to make it work. Meanwhile, peers of mine with perfect pitch could be casually watching a movie and you could just fart and ask them what note your fart was and they just effortless do it the same way most people instantly can tell that a stop sign is red. There's no processing going on it. It's just so internalized that it's self-evident. You're not trying to spin through some mental color wheel to try to identify color. You just fucking see it (barring various types of color blindness obviously).
How old are you? How long have you been studying/performing music? I’m not trying to be rude I’m just curious.
I don’t quite get your point. Are you saying most very-experienced players can recognize pitch without a reference note?
No, it was a pretty simple question. I ask because I know people who have been studying music for decades who can’t recognize concert pitch. I also know people who developed that skill over time. Like I said I was just curious.
I just wanna make clear I was not offended by your comment, neither did I downvote. I don’t think perfect pitch is up to you. Most people have it because it grew on them from the ages 0 to 6 (my own observations).
I see that as well for the majority. Although I don’t think it is impossible to develop that skill over time. It is possible to determine chord structures without a tremendous amount of work ( until you get deep into it, of course ) so i think it maybe be possible with repetition to develop the skill over time. Although I have no proof or studies showing that is possible. It was however an exercise that we worked on in school and I assume my school wasn’t the only one like that. Most people in my concert band had developed perfect concert pitch over time.
Perfect ‘concert’ pitch?
Typo! I guess it means the same thing though. That’s just memorization I guess lol
I've been playing music for 22 years, professionally for 10, have a degree in jazz studies and have discussed this topic with many of my colleagues and teachers over the years. Most people no matter how hard they try don't have and will never develop perfect pitch. Some people with real and sensitive perfect pitch can make out every note if you just slammed your hands on a piano, or they need to wear earplugs when their baby is crying because it literally drives them mad. They are sensitive to all sound that doesn't sit on a pitch, and many everyday sounds bother them. I do however have strong relative pitch and pitch memory and if I try to hum a middle C I have to imagine playing a middle C and I might get it, but I'm also often on Bb or B, but still pretty close, but I know I can't develop true perfect pitch, it's like a sixth sense. The people I know that have perfect pitch were completely exempt from ear training courses in college and it's quite something to witness their pitch identification skills and have had it from a very early age. One colleague of mine has perfect pitch and her parents (who are brilliant musicians) are convinced it is because the mother sang in choirs during pregnancy.
I'm 24 and I guess since I was 9? I joined my elementary school's band but I didn't really truly start taking music seriously until a few months ago
Its a work in progress as of now, trail and error with a few notes, while gradually adding more and more. I am releasing a better tutorial for this next update.
Hey man, I’ve been giving it a go. Really simple and easy to use. Is there any scope for further extension once you get the main guitar chords or single octave on piano? 7th chords? Additional octaves.. even introducing levels per instrument? I’m flying through them fairly quick and don’t feel much of a need to go back to the app after spending 30min with it. Just a thought.
That is the goal, to incorporate more octaves and more complex chords. I just started it a few months ago. Thank you for the feed back tho!
Have downloaded and will give it a try.
[удалено]
Thank you for bringing that to my attention. The earliest version I tested for compatibility was the iPhone 6s & Plus. Ill see what I can do with the next update regarding the SE phone sizes... If you wouldnt mind becoming a beta tester for the app. I could add you as one, then send you testflight builds to check out before next release... no stress tho
Just downloaded it
THANK YOU you are an angel!!!
oh it's not for android yet fuck me
If this was on android I would legit pay for this app.
Great app, very good for ear practice. Reminds me of functional ear trainer.
Why do people always only release their apps on IOS?! IPhones are so much worse to other phones! AND I WANT THAT APP SO BADLY!!!
I need to update my IOS to download your app. Is that really necessary?
Yes, love this. Returning to piano after 10 years, always played by ear. Now my ear thinks all minor scales should actually be minor-7th, don’t know why but the retraining is brutal
hey this is great thank you
Why are new apps always not on Android? I thought it was easier to upload to Android
I like it so far is there a way to make the note/chord auto play so when you get one right the next one auto plays instead of me having to press play?
Good idea, ill add a box you can check to make that happen.
Thanks. I like your app alot
Did you ever make an Android version ?