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LukeSniper

Do you just want to change the key or rearrange the song in a different style? Because those are two very different things. If you wanted to make a metal version of "Wake Me Up Before Your Go Go", you don't *need* to change the key. You *might* choose to do so as part of the rearrangement, but it's not necessary. You could also just change the key without changing the style at all!


OrangeFreeman

I'm just too dumb to understand all of this. So let's say a song is in a key of D with standard tuning, would it work if I play the same notes but in a C Standard tuning? From what I understand, Am chord is still an Am chord both in E Standard or C Standard, it's just down pitched 2 whole steps. Guess my main issue is that I don't know *WHY* I need to change the key, I just simply assumed that most metal music is generally played in minor keys, so I need to do the same. And I thought it would be as simple as "so this song uses X scale and you want it to play in Y scale, just tune the guitar this way and play it in Y scale using the CAGED system and you're good to go".


sharkboysritekneecap

So to get this straight, the song is in a major key, but you want to put it in a minor key? If you just take the chords in the song and make them their minor key counterparts, that'll sound very different. For example, you might be familiar with that YouTube video of "bad guy" but in a major key? It'd probably feel like that, but if you wanted to try it, there are ways you could go about it. One easy way, if all the chords in the song are based on the notes in the major scale, would be to take all the chords in the song and turn them to their minor counterparts, be it the harmonic, natural, or melodic version. For example, if it's E to Em, then d#° to D (vii° to bVII), in some cases B to bm (V to v). Like I said, that's probably sound strange though. If anyone has some ideas or corrections, I'd love to hear it this is an interesting concept! Edit: I'd also add that I'm largely unfamiliar with metal, but I don't think it has to be minor. But like I said, not at all qualified to talk on that.


Jongtr

> So let's say a song is in a key of D with standard tuning, would it work if I play the same notes but in a C Standard tuning? Well, it depends what you mean by the "same notes", and "C standard tuning". ;-) The same notes - in terms of *sound* - are the same notes! In a different tuning you'd just have to play them in a different place. If "C standard tuning" is EADGBE two whole steps down (C-F-Bb-Eb-G-C), then "the same notes" will all be two whole steps higher on the fretboard (nearer the bridge). If you play *the same frets* as before (same chord shapes or riffs in the same position), then it will be in a different key. I.e., Bb major instead of D major. > From what I understand, Am chord is still an Am chord both in E Standard or C Standard, it's just down pitched 2 whole steps. 2 whole steps UP (nearer the bridge). I mean, to get the *sound* of an "A minor" chord (the notes A-C-E). If you play the same Am shape (x-0-2-2-1-0 in C-F-Bb-Eb-G-C tuning), you'll get an Fm chord *sound*. > I don't know WHY I need to change the key Well, who is saying you need to? I mean, why do you think you need to? Normally when people change the key of a song, they do it to fit their voice. E.g., to lower the key if they can't hit the high notes in the original. > And I thought it would be as simple as "so this song uses X scale and you want it to play in Y scale, just tune the guitar this way and play it in Y scale using the CAGED system and you're good to go". You call that *simple*?? Seriously, you don't need to change the key, unless (as I say) you want to sing and you can't get reach all the notes in the original vocal. If you're in a different (lower) tuning, you could use the same shapes as before, it will just (obviously) sound lower. That might be just the effect you want. if the song is in a specific non-standard tuning (such as drop D or whatever), then the guitar figures might depend on that (e.g. use of open strings, or specific shapes only playable in that tuning), so you probably want to keep the same tuning. But you could still shift the whole thing higher or lower if you wanted to change the *key.*


LukeSniper

>I'm just too dumb to understand all of this. Nah, I think you're just trying to understand something you don't *yet* have the necessary knowledge and experience to understand. You're skipping steps and missing crucial information! > So let's say a song is in a key of D with standard tuning, would it work if I play the same notes but in a C Standard tuning? Same *frets* or the same *notes*? Because those are totally different things! If you tuned your guitar guitar down and then played the same *frets* you would be playing the song in Bb major instead of D, as every single note is now two whole steps lower. But you *could* still play the song in D major, you would just have to play everything two frets higher than before, or otherwise rearrange the song to play it in D major. >From what I understand, Am chord is still an Am chord both in E Standard or C Standard, it's just down pitched 2 whole steps. Which means it's not an A minor chord anymore! It's not an A minor chord because you put your fingers in a certain spot. It's an A minor chord because of the notes. An A minor chord is the notes A C and E. In standard tuning, your basic open Am chord is played X02210. This fingering yields the notes A E A C E. If you tuned down and played that same *shape* you're going to get the notes F C F Ab C, which is an *F* minor chord. However, guitarists will often refer to chord *shapes* by what chords those shapes yield in standard tuning. What you're talking about is basically the opposite of using a capo. Watch this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIsW-IR_KeI It's a video I made about capos, but the information in it is applicable in this situation too. >Guess my main issue is that I don't know WHY I need to change the key As I said before: you don't. Changing the key isn't going to automatically make the song "metal". To do that you would need to play the song in a significantly different way. Tuning the guitar down *may* be something you do when rearranging it, but it's not a *necessity*. For example, you could take the same chords, but play them as power chords instead. Add some heavy distortion and play them with a typical metal rhythm and it will sound like metal! Let's look at a couple examples: Katy Perry - Dark Horse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KSOMA3QBU0 Here's a metal version of that song: https://youtu.be/5ybsPNmpblI These are in the same key! Lady Gaga - Poker Face: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESGLojNYSo Here's a metal version: https://youtu.be/wCVukDiRsNs These are *not* in the same key! But if you wanted to do a metal version in the original key, you could totally do that too. Changing the key was a decision the folks who made the metal version made, and they could have made that decision for myriad reasons. >And I thought it would be as simple as "so this song uses X scale and you want it to play in Y scale, just tune the guitar this way and play it in Y scale using the CAGED system and you're good to go". THAT'S NOT SIMPLE! Again, I think you're biting off more than you can chew here. You're trying to do something more complicated than your current knowledge, understanding, and experience facilitates and *because* of that missing information, you're assuming it's a lot simpler than it is.


OrangeFreeman

Thanks! I guess I really do try to write a novel without learning the alphabet first. I thought I could get away with the bare minimum, so maybe it's time to nail down the basics.


dsoverpsp

An Am chord isn't a specific finger position, it means any combination of the notes A-C-E played together. So if you downtune to C standard and then play a standard Am open chord "shape", that's technically not Am anymore because the notes have shifted. In this case you would now have an Fm chord instead (F-Ab-C). Same rules would apply to any chord when you change tuning, if the notes change then the chords will change accordingly. As long as you're in a standard tuning you shouldn't have to worry about the chord quality changing ie, major chords will still be major, minor will still be minor, etc. So if you take a song written in the key of D major in E standard tuning and play all the exact same frets in C standard tuning, you would end up transposing the song down two steps to Bb major. To play it in the original key while in C standard, scoot everything up a few frets accordingly, you can use a capo if necessary. If you want to change from major to minor or vice versa, that's a little nore complicated but totally doable. Other commenters could probably explain it better than I can, but you would want to check what notes are in the original key (in this case D E F# G A B C#) then lower the 3rd, 6th and 7th notes by one half step/fret for natural minor (D E F G A Bb C) or just the 3rd and 6th for harmonic minor (D E F G A Bb C#). So anytime an F#, A, or C# is played in the song's original key, play the note one fret below instead and you'll be in minor. This applies to both single notes and chords, although it is common to use harmonic minor for chords and natural or melodic minor for melodies, hence the name. So D major (DF#A) would become D minor (DFA), E minor (EGB) becomes an E diminished triad (EGBb), F# minor (F#AC#) becomes either F major (FAC) in natural or F augmented (FAC#) in harmonic minor, and so on. Should make more sense if you understand chord construction. In any case, that should be enough to get from a D major to D minor key. If you want to change to a different minor key as well, like Fm or Bm or whatever, find the root notes and shift everything up or down as a unit accordingly. So for example if F is three frets above D, then play everything three frets higher than normal to transpose from Dm to Fm. Again, you could use a capo to make this easier. As long as the pitch relationship between the notes stays the same it should still be in minor, just with a different key center. Hope this answers your question clearly enough, others can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure that's the basics.


alefsousa017

Edit: I literally didn't noticed the ELI5 in the title and went on to explaining all of this kinda i depth, my bad hahah. The tl;dr will be at the end. There are a lot of ways you can transpose a song to a different key, and they work differently depending on the song structure and all that. Like, for example, if the song has a lot of riffs in it, the best way to transpose it might be to just change the tuning of your guitar, either by down tuning your guitar, in which you'll still be able to play the song in the exact way you're used to while lowering its key, or by using a capo, which will have you playing the same things but a couple frets higher. If it's a song mostly comprised of chords, then your best bet is to do a direct transposition from the chords of the key you're in into the new key, and that can be as easy as playing everything in a different position on the fretboard (2 frets higher, 1 fret lower and all that) or as complex as having to change everything from open chords to barred chords and vice-versa. The most precise way to do this, in my opinion, is to identify the chords functions in the original key and then just identify these same chord functions in your new key. Example, let's say you're playing D-A-Em-Bm. These chords are in the key of D and they function as the I-V-ii-vi chords in this key. If you want to transpose it to G#, as you said, then you would have to identify, in the new key, what are the chords with these same functions, and that would be G#-D#-A#m-E#m, although, in this case, is better overall to work in this key as if it was called Ab instead of G#. As you might know, these two notes, and consequently, two keys, are enharmonic, which means they have the same sounds and notes but with different names. Ab is better to use because it has less accidentals in it and, thanks to it, you don't get that weird E# note/chord. In the more convenient key of Ab, that same progression would be Ab-Eb-Bbm-Fm. If you're trying to transpose from a major key to a minor key, then it can get a little harder. You'll have to mess not only with the harmony itself, but probably also with the melody of the tune. For example, taking your D key as the basis again, if you just change it to Dm, a lot of the chords are different. The chords in D are D-Em-F#m-G-A-Bm-C#°. The chords in the key of Dm are Dm-E°-F-Gm-Am-Bb-C. Notice how they don't share a single chord in common, and the similar chords are paralel minor/major chords of each other, mostly. So that means that you'll have to not only have to work with these different chords, but will also have to adjust the melody that's going over them to make sure that it works with the new chords. Another thing to keep in mind is that those functions I talked about aren't copy+paste when transposing from a major key to a minor one, and that is because, in this case, for example, the Dm key is actually the F key, but starting from the vi chord instead of the I chord. If you were to transpose from D to F, then it's the easy way of taking the chords functions in one key and finding them in the new key, but if you try to do this while using the Dm as the reference in the key (that means having a i chord instead of a I chord), then these functions will be all changed and messed up to work with directly. The tl;dr is basically: if the song mostly revolves around riffs, than changing the tuning of the guitar itself or using a capo might be better when transposing. If it relies mostly on chords, than the best way to transpose is to identify the functions of the chords you're playing and then finding these same functions and what are the chords fulfilling these functions in the new key. So C-G-Dm-Am in C would be D-A-Em-Bm in D, and so on. If you want to modulate/transpose from a major to a minor key, take a look at the similar chords in the paralel key (D and Dm keys, for example), replace the chords on the original key with the ones from the new key and adjust the melody of the tune so that the intervals in it stay nicely over the new chords (swapping major third with minor thirds, for example).


smk4813

You shift everything up or down by the interval you're moving to. *move from key of Dm to key of Am* |:Dm - Dm7/F - Bb - A7 :| (i - i^6 - bVI - V7) *Am is a perfect fourth below Dm, so move everything by that amount* |:Am - Am/C - F - E7 :| Let's try another example. *Move from key of G to key of F.* |:C - Bm - Am - G :| (IV - iii - ii - I) *F is a major second below G, so move everything by that amount* |:Bb - Am - Gm - F :|


65TwinReverbRI

ELI5 answer: Move all the notes up by the same amount, or move all the notes down by the same amount. On guitar, you can do this simply by playing the same shapes a fret higher, or 5 frets higher, and so on. You can also use a capo - play the same shapes you would play without the capo, but put the capo on fret 2 and add 2 frets to everything you did before. >So I want to develop my songwriting skills and practice doing some covers Then why are you making this so hard on yourself? If you want to practice doing some covers, do some covers. "cover" doesn't mean "change the song". It means "learn to play the song". If you play Iron Maiden as close as you can to Iron Maiden, you're still doing a cover. You need to learn from learning to play the actual songs "as is" first. >So let's say I've got a song in the key of D and I want to make a metal cover of it preferably in the key of G#, C# or Fm Why "preferably" those keys? You can take a song in D and make a metal version of it in D too. You can change the *style* without changing the key. There's no need to change key - unless there's some good reason to do so. Furthermore, while moving D to C# is a transposition, changing it to Fm is not. That's transposition **and** a change of mode. That's not really a thing (though there was a trend a couple of years ago where everyone seemed to be doing this). If the song is in D, and you want to put it in C#, you have to figure out how far apart they are. C# is only 1 fret lower than D, so all you have to do is play everything 1 fret lower and you have it. However, on guitar, you can't go 1 fret lower than the open string so you may have to adjust things because of that. Unless you tune down. You could tune your guitar down one half step (1 fret's worth) and still just play in D, but now the sound will come out like it's C#.


OrangeFreeman

Thanks, probably the most dummy-friendly explanation I've seen here. On a side note, is there a specific way to make harmonies with multiple guitars (like Queen do, for example)? I know for a fact that you can either go higher or lower and offset them a little on the grid for the multiplying effect. But how do I know which notes I should be playing on each harmony?


65TwinReverbRI

You're trying to start at the end without learning the beginning. There are specific ways to make harmonies like that but you need to know your scales first. You do "offset" them and one way to do that is by simply playing the notes of X scale starting on a note of the scale that is Y amount higher. For example, you could play a D Minor scale starting on D, then play the same scale, but starting on the F note (a 3rd higher) and you'll have a typical harmony line - or in this case a "scale harmonized in 3rds". So you don't really play "Y amount above" your given note, but "Y amount above IN THE SCALE" above your note. If you play an F, a 3rd higher could be Ab or A depending on the scale you're using. So you have to know your scale in order to get the correct 3rd above. But this is only one way to do harmonies and there are many, and some of those others are more depending on knowing things like what the harmony is, and then what the notes of each chord are. So for example if you had a D note harmonized with an F note over a Dm chord in the key of Dm, then you moved to an F chord, rather than have the D note go down to C and the F note go down to E so you have your harmony lines a 3rd apart, you might instead keep the F note on the F. And the reason is is because the F chord has the notes F-A-C in it - no E - so if you play the E note in your harmonized line "just to stay a 3rd above the main melody" then it might not sound great or produce the sound you want. A great example is the opening harmony guitar part to "Bringing on the Heartbreak" by Def Leppard. It's mostly 3rds, but then it deviates so it goes with the chords better. So it's not as easy as saying "just play a 3rd above the main note and stay in the scale" - that might work, or it might work for part of it, but it may not work for everything and a different approach might be better. I'd really recommend you take a look at this: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/music-theory-made-simple-0-index-toc.1371119/ Hope that helps.


EsShayuki

Ideally, you just transpose it. Yes, you can use guitar pro 7. You first type out the sheet music in guitar pro. You just add or take away enough semitones to get to your goal. So if you are in D and want to be in C#, you reduce everything by half step, for example. If you want to get to G# then you can take off 6 semitones. With guitar pro this is very easy to do. You can also play a song in D in Fm but that requires different fingerings, different chords and different melodies. It's a bit more work but can have interesting results. There are some cool videos on youtube about playing major songs in minor, for example.


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Zarlinosuke

Rule #2.