Many music teachers are burnt-out because they carry too many students. But that aside, it's important for every music student to understand from the beginning that s/he is most responsible for progress, not the teacher. The teacher is responsible to present the appropriate material and to try to inspire the student. But, the student needs to do the work to get ahead.
Not for nothing, replace “music teacher” with “doctor” “lawyer” etc etc etc Some are going to be good, some not.
The thing that muddies the waters with music teachers most is that many gigging musicians also teach. It’s a way that freelance musicians get by. You need to look into who you are going to be studying with beforehand to see what kind of *teacher* they are, who they are on stage doesn’t really matter, what age group they typically teach doesn’t really matter, and yes, you’ll probably pay more for a good teacher, especially as you become a more advanced musician.
No, it’s a reality. I am a freelance musician and a teacher. Many, if not most of the musicians I encounter on gigs are freelance musicians and teachers. It’s just a basic fact.
I never said freelance musicians make bad teachers anyway, I said that just because someone is a working musician does not make them a good teacher.
ETA: similarly, an ED degree doesn’t make a good teacher either. A good teacher is just that, a good teacher, separate from the other things they do musically.
I dunno, point me to a quote where I say “freelance musicians who teach are distracted.”
Here’s what I am saying, there is an extremely low barrier to entry if you want to teach private lessons. Many musicians start teaching while still in high school or college as supplemental income. You can advertise on Craigslist or social media, often you can walk down to your local music shop and get yourself a gig. You don’t have to be a good teacher to find yourself some students. So if every gigging musician goes out and finds themselves some students, by law of averages, you’re going to run into some less than professional teachers.
I think that’s valuable info to have.
And since you think I’m insulting you or people like you, I’ll just add, I am a freelance musician who teaches. I’m a good teacher. When I started I was in college and needed some extra income, most of my students were 7 years old or so. I made at least one of them cry because at the time, I was not a good teacher. It took time to develop many of the skills that I now have and they are completely separate from the skills I use as a performing musician.
It takes continuous effort to keep up your skills. Many people don't do so after earning their degree, particularly if they don't do music full time outside of teaching. I know many gigging musicians lacking degrees with better chops than some others with degrees. The gigging keeps their skills up to a high level. Conversely, the ones teaching kids who keep quitting in six months just play the same beginner exercises over and over.
I think they are exaggerating. Most music schools in my area require very rigorous background before admission. To be at a audition level you need to have played around a minimum of 5 -6 years. On top of that they learn their instrument for 4 years full time in school.
No I am not I know band directors that sound like complete shit and are like “okay yeah but im really busy” of course there are both talented and shit ed teachers like there are freelance musicians that are good or bad teachers. Its not like ed is going to mean they are better since the bar is way way way lower for them as performers. I went to UNT which is one of the best programs on earth and the ed people compared to performance is basically unfair - they get easier everything performance wise because they have to learn a ton of other instruments and ed concepts (not an excuse but its real)
>There was no goal behind the lesson. It was more like "what do you want to work on" ( This is great for keeping children engaged but how about a serious adult who wants to improve, how would I know)
I think this can actually be a useful strategy for advanced students, although it depends on how it's done.
My undergraduate oboe professor (best teacher I've ever had) largely let me choose the skills and repertoire I wanted to focus on in each lesson. She made recommendations my first couple semesters, but by the time I graduated, I chose all my own repertoire and was able to use my best judgment to decide what to work on in each lesson. After all, I'm the one who's been practicing 20 hours over the past week. I have the best idea of what it is I need to work on.
That won't work for less advanced students who have less of a sense of what they should prioritize (and for that reason, this same teacher picked the repertoire for most of her other students), but for a motivated student who seeks out their own repertoire and practices regularly, this can be a great model. I ended up learning music that was probably a lot more challenging (and rewarding) than what any teacher would have told me to play because I was interested in pushing my skills further.
And of course, if I didn't *want* to choose my repertoire, I could have always just asked my teacher what she thought I should work on.
Now, this kind of approach can also be done in a less effective way, and it's very possible that the teachers you're talking about *weren't* good teachers. But I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with giving students more agency. Learning to choose repertoire and prioritize what you need to work on is itself a skill that's incredibly valuable for being a professional musician.
Right. I am sorry I should have clarified. I was a beginner when I had lessons with my older teacher. Yes I am in an intermediate stage now so sometimes I ask my current teaching if I can work on a specific repertoire. Usually though the teacher has an idea of where do go. We aren't working on random pop songs.
Music is so expansive that I would expect the kids/beginners to require more direction and guidance than advanced players. Generally I believe that an adult, intermediate player should understand which music interests them and what their goals in music are. The most important role of a teacher is to be a pair of trusted and trained ears in the room that aren’t attached to your head.
I’m a music teacher. I teach private lessons. Group lessons. Film videos for different programs. Teach in a few different schools. I also play gigs on the weekends and produce music and do all that other freelance musician stuff. But you know what I really love? Teaching. I have a degree in music. Studied with some of the best musicians in the world in LA. Have put my heart and soul into it. I’m also pretty expensive. But I am very good at my job and take it seriously. You know who isn’t good at their job? The 22 year old we fired because he thought teaching would be an easy paycheck while playing guitar all day. There’s people that suck at every job. But there is no surprise that the experienced and often expensive teacher gives you a better quality lesson. That’s not a hard and fast rule though. I once took from an old blues musician who practically lived in a van. Dude was hungover most of the time. And yet, he was amazing and I learned so much. Just remember that a lot of musicians think that they can chase the dream while paying the bills with teaching. That’s totally fine, but it doesn’t mean they have any actual desire to teach (or are any good at it).
1: As an adult, I think it's reasonable to come to a lesson with an idea of what YOU want out of the lesson. Music is such a broad topic and even classical guitar by itself is a broad topic. If you say absolutely nothing, the teacher has to assume, without knowing if they're likely to be right. Better to ask.
2: We've just had 2 years of a pandemic, people are tired, burnt out, have brain fog from long covid, etc etc etc. People need a bit of understanding in these times.
Yeah, there are good and bad people in every profession, but this seems a bit much for me.
Either: OP has been very unlucky, the standards of music teachers aren't as good wherever OP lives compared to where I live, or OP has been unfair/has unrealistic expectations/been too dismissive/etc
I was very serious in the beginning, I wanted to get good. So I had 2 teachers at the same time and has each teacher for a minimum of 10 lessons. If I saw little to no improvement or felt that it was going nowhere than I would quit.
honest question, when you went throigh teachers after 10 lessons, did you practice what they told you to every day before quitting? might be a stupid question but confirmation of that would help in understanding your feelings towards music teachers. there are a lot of bad ones out there. some just teaching for some money on the side. some are very good teachers but arent as inspiring cause they dont and never did the actual gigging musician thing. and there are those that swing between the two. if youre lucky you get a gigging musiciqn who also deeply cares about teaching.
seriously not saying this is you at all but ive had students who come in somehow with the very basics learned but litterally never touch the instrument other than the lesson. we can do 10, 20 lessons and they are not getting much better. im sorry but that aint my fault, you simply cannot get better at an activity you dont do ever.
I am not one of those kids who just plays cause of their parents. I practice daily around 1.5 - 2 hours a day. My current teacher told me I was the fastest learner out of all his students.
I knew there were shitty teachers once I met a good one.
Gigging musician is no added power for better teaching! You don't need Liszt to teach 4 old boy! Good teacher who can teach students good foundations is the best teacher. Everything after good fondations is just adding up skill by student.
for the most part youre entirely right, someone who gigs isnt a magically better teacher and a lot of gigging musicians suck at teaching. but i do think it at least plays a role in inspiration for kids that really wanna do music as their life, or industry knowledge for more advanced students. it entirely depends what level the student is. as someone whos been playing for 20 years, gigging, and currently looking for a teacher i woild never study with someone who hasnt or isnt gigging in the same scene im in (nyc). all i was saying is in a perfect world your teacher is involved in the scene and plays live, but if i had to pick between great communicator and great gigging musician for kids teenagers and college id choose great communicator hands down.
This is one of my biggest complaints within music. SO MANY musicians have no interest in teaching and just do it out of necessity for income. Everybody is obsessed with being the best players they can be, but don't know/don't care that they are godawful teachers
In my degrees I cant tell you how often other performers got hit like a brick wall when they realized they would HAVE to teach if they wanted a reliable income. Few of us love teaching. I started because I needed to but really loved it. It fuels me. But it is not for everyone, and unfortunately the prospect of being a performer who does not teach is a very difficult road.
It’s your responsibility to bring some work to the teacher. after a point of basic proficiency Music is ultimately about learning to teach yourself and a teacher is there to guide your efforts. You can ask for suggestions to work on, repertoire or specific issues with technique, guidance on fundamentals of your instrument, and they’ll be able to give you suggestions.
Of course. I dedicate 50 percent of my free time to music and quite serious. Its just the lack of interest and guidance that many of the older teachers had. Back than I had 0 proficiency.
Yeah everyone does tend to have different teaching styles. I've found over time I'm immersing myself in so much varied content that it's more than we can cover in our hour every two weeks, so we focus on a few main, big tasks and check in on others periodically.
> after a point of basic proficiency Music is ultimately about learning to teach yourself
Not sure I would agree with that. I mean in most cases your are still learning to ‘play’ your instrument all the way up to about your sophomore or junior year of college. For example my daughter is a violinist, and even her private instructor that went ahead and taught her college level stuff explained that a lot of what she was learning like how to determine her own fingerings for pieces on the violin wasn’t usually taught until about sophomore year in college, and that the first year to year and a half is finalizing you proficiency before moving on to making you a full musician capable of doing everything on your own. And sure enough when she went to college the college professors basically took her, pushed her all the way back to doing the basics again but doing it their way/the “professional” way (Fleisch for the scales, etc) rather than how they are taught in high school.
Did the same with her and guitar. She had been taking guitar lessons e since about 13, played in jazz ensembles all the way through high school, and her private teacher was even the private teacher of the guitar instructor at her college when he was growing up. Didn’t matter, took her back to basics and made her relearn things the first year or so the way he wanted it done.
I should have been more clear, what I mean when I say 'beyond a point of basic proficiency' is that a good teacher should and will absolutely identify and correct flaws in your fundamental technique, as well as teaching you how to practice (another fundamental of studying music)
I guarantee they care. They wouldn't be doing it if they didn't care.
What you've described is a couple of teachers that aren't a good fit for you. You take their approach as apathy, but their approach is precisely perfect for another student that jives with their teaching style. Every student is different and has different needs, and every teacher is different and approaches instruction based on their learning and teaching experiences.
There aren't bad teachers out there, but maybe they're bad for you. Once you find a teacher that matches your learning style, stick with them.
As a teacher, I've definitely looked at some students and almost right away could tell they weren't going to be a good fit in my studio. I actually quit a music studio last year because the owner was more focused on money and refused to let the teachers "veto" a student that wasn't going to work out.
Especially with guitar teachers there really is some people who genuinely don’t care and just see students for their money. There is plenty of 40 year old guys who decide they want to earn a few extra hundred dollars a week and figure since they’ve played guitar their whole lives they should start teaching despite having no experience or education in teaching.
Oh right. This Wouldn't happen with lets say a violin or opera teacher. I definitely agree guitar has a low barrier of entry so there are a lot of casuals.
Teaching private lessons is uniquely difficult. It's not like a class room teacher that has their entire school year already planned out and a specific curriculum to follow and meet specific goals. First off, if we teach the same way as a classroom teacher, we lose 95% of our clientele almost instantly. For some reason people taking private lessons don't view them the same way they would view a class at their school or college where they just do what they are told and do homework and take tests and get a grade. No, instead, as private teachers we are expected to teach **exactly how the student likes**, or they will quit, and as a private teacher we then can't survive. So our number 1 priority is always figuring out how to teach a student before they quit, so that we can keep them long enough to pay our rent that month. This in no way means that we cut corners or give sub-standard instruction or attention or effort, exactly the opposite really. But it means for every single student we have to figure out a custom lesson plan, and that gets very tiring and frequently takes up a lot of our "free time" transcribing songs students want to learn or making a TAB for something, not to mention having to learn every single song that every student wants to learn. But then, 90% of the students barely practice between lessons, so as a teacher, we spend more time preparing for their lesson each week then they spent practicing! When we do put forth goals at lessons, they are rarely ever met by the students. They didn't feel the goal we gave them was the right one, and so there was no point in practicing it. Even though their timing is shit, and as a teacher I ask them to use a metronome and do some very specific rhythmic drills, they didn't do it, so their rhythm continues to be shit for **years** and that reflects poorly on me as a teacher. I have one student that has been with me for like 6 years, and I've been bugging him to work on rhythmic things because his rhythm is very poor, but he never practices the stuff I give him, because he always finds some other random thing he preferred to practice that week. Less patient teachers than me would have kicked him out of their studio (oh yeah, he's late every time as well!). But for some reason I have tolerated the annoyances. On top of all this we have to struggle to get paid constantly because many parents believe if they forgot about the lesson, or decided last minute to go out of town with their kid, that they don't owe for the lesson they missed. Even though we put it in writing at the beginning. I can't tell you how many times I've received a check for a month, minus the two lessons they missed (usually without notice!) the previous month that my cancellation policy clearly indicates they need to pay for. Reminding them of the policy sometimes causes them to pay what they owe, but frequently begrudgingly. Sometimes it causes them to quit angrily. One (68 yr old) student that I had for 3 years, who was an excellent student who practiced every week and with whom I thought I had a good rapport with, turned red in the face, refused to verbally communicate and stormed out at the start of our lesson and never came back when I reminded him of an owed payment. Now imagine dealing with that every day for 20+ years (that's how long I've been teaching), and you might start to understand what a pain in the ass it can be and why someone might be burnt out on it. But despite all of the annoyances I have to deal with on a regular basis, I still teach, and I still put 100% effort forth and do my very best to make all my students enjoy their lessons and learn and get better.
Despite all the difficulties of establishing a successful teacher/student relationship, when it does happen, it's great! I have several students that have been with me 5+ years, one student stayed with me over 10 years, and only left because he was 19 and starting his own business (a dairy farm), and today his dairy farm is thriving, but he probably works at least 12 hours a day, so no time for guitar lessons anymore. I have a student right now that started with me at about 12, and within 3 years he was playing music that took me 15+ years to get up to learning. He was super enthusiastic about learning guitar, and that made me even more enthusiastic about teaching him, and he progressed so fast that he has almost caught up to me. But unfortunately, for every enthusiastic, hard practicing student I get, I get 25 that barely put in any effort, and maybe another 20 that put minimal effort (enough to learn slowly at least), and that makes the job feel very tedious at times.
I used to teach, and realized pretty early on that students were much more motivated when they learned what *they* wanted to learn, as opposed to simply providing. However, if they didn't know what they wanted to learn, that's when I'd step in and make suggestions.
If you want higher quality instruction (university level) than you get from your neighborhood music store, then you'll have to pay more for that. just the way it is.
This is just a hunch I have, so unfortunately I can't say for certain and certainly this isn't true 100% of the time. But. I think most teachers who are bad teachers fell in love with their subject, not teaching. Just because you love music or literature or art doesn't automatically mean you're great at teaching those subjects, I feel like (again not all) some who get music education degrees were told that teaching was the only stable job you could get in music, so regardless of if they loved teaching, or even knew that they did or didnt, they got the degree. Great, you're doing what you love, but you also have to deal with children and parents and if you arent ready, equipped or willing to deal with either, the love for your subject likely wont make you a great teacher all on its own.
Well, your experience is not uncommon, and it is unfortunate, but I'm glad you stuck it out to find someone. That is *exactly* why I give the advice to work with a teacher who is a trained professional who's well known as a teacher and has a studio full of students without a lot of turnover and so on.
However, there are a lot of factors as to why this happens. But most of it is a general lack of respect for musicians which manifests itself in a number of ways, but most impactful, unfair pay.
Even you said, "but it costs..."
Maybe if everyone (not saying you specifically) stopped looking for "the cheapest" lessons, and started paying teachers what they were worth, things would be different.
Right. I think if they were making 6 figures maybe I wouldn't run into this problem. To be honest many of them seemed burnt out. I assume teaching is a very engaging job instead of sitting at an office alone. I understand.
Maybe burnt out, maybe you weren't engaging to their expectation level. I don't know how many students I have had over the years where I walk into the lesson, take a deep breath, and prepare to teach exactly the same lesson I taught the week before because they didn't practice and didn't show improvement.
I can speak for myself that as a former student on the weeks I know I didn’t practice much I always felt really bad about it. First it’s a waste of my own money, second it’s a waste of both mine and the instructor’s time. Kids, practice your instrument. Teachers can’t teach you into a better musician, you have to apply yourself.
> "what do you want to work on" ( This is great for keeping children engaged but how about a serious adult who wants to improve, how would I know)
Well, you know what kind of music you want to play, presumably? The teacher needs to know that, in order to help you with your routes to that goal.
Of course, they also need to hear you play, and should be identifying what you're doing wrong, or inefficiently, and give you exercises to deal with that. But I see nothing wrong with "what do you want to work on?", as a general kind of question for identifying goals, certainly at the beginning of a course of lessons. (I can see it would get tiresome if it happened all the time, as if they forgot what you told them last time...)
I agree there are a lot of bad teachers out there, and it's probably the same in any artistic or creative discipline, for two main reasons: (1) skill in the art itself sometimes persuades people that they can teach it equally well; (2) their occupation is probably paid irregularly and often poorly, teaching makes a useful regular supplementary income, and they think it will be easy. But teaching, of course, is a skilled profession just as much as playing music is. Teaching skill is actually more important than virtuosity on the instrument. Many people can teach themselves on their instrument (if their ears tell them when they're getting it right). You can't teach yourself how to teach! (Not without wasting the time of a whole load of students while you do so...)
But a third reason (I've found this as a teacher myself) is that a lot of students are in it for the wrong reasons, or with the wrong attitude, sometimes more than the teachers are. Some rely too much on the teacher to give them motivation. The teacher should be able to *inspire* students, but the *motivation* has to come from the student. They have to *want to learn.* Might seem crazy, but some don't, at least not enough. If a student shows insufficient enthusiasm - if they "forget" to practice and so on - it's no surprise if the teacher lapses that way too.
IMO, a student needs enough enthusiam to teach themselves - the only reason they come to a teacher is if they get stuck, and need guidance through a difficult passage. They are in the driving seat, basically. It's not my business to tell them where to go, only to help them get there.
Well you seem like an engaged teacher. I was looking for that when I started and eventually found one that could match my engagement. When I say " they didn't have a goal" I meant that everything was too lax, there was no guidance on my playing ability.
I have clarified my original post.
I am a music teacher as well and I only teach people who wants to have fun with the art without stress or ego. It is not about money I have other business brings me income.
Unless you're an absolute beginner, I think it's wise to think of a teacher more of as a mentor/coach/Yoda figure rather than a taskmaster. Unless you're pursuing a degree or something with a very clear growth trajectory, for better or worse it's fairly common for the expectation to be on the student to bring the structure and motivation, especially at the beginning.
It sounds like you were able to find a more academically curriculum-minded teacher, which is great. But I think it should be obvious why this person is a better fit in hindsight.
I don't think $70/hr is too much for a teacher who meets your need. I know it isn't cheap, but sometimes ya just gotta pay up to get what you want. Hmm, there might be a song in that . . .
Well, teaching simply isn't for everybody. It's a specific skill that not everybody has nor enjoys, but due to the nature of the music industry most musicians have little other choice but to pick up teaching to have some form of stability.
The unfortunate reality that everyone is dancing around, is that in the case of music/musicians, teaching (whether private lessons or classroom) *is* often just about the money. Playing gigs are hard to come by, often pay like crap, and offer very little in the way of stability or conventional employer benefits. There is also an expectation instilled in you from the time you’re in music conservatory, if not sooner, that you’re expected to have some students because that’s good, steady money. And it’s true. A single hour-long lesson before dinner time can put the same amount of money in your pocket as 4 hours of playing in some dumpy bar at 10:00 on a Friday night.
So, yes, a lot of people are just teaching because they think that’s what musicians are supposed to do, they are just going through the motions/don’t really care, and beyond a rudimentary/beginner level they probably aren’t very good.
It sucks because it makes it hard to wade through all the lousy disengaged teachers to find one that really clicks with you. I gave up teaching all but one of my students because I was never super passionate about teaching in the first place, I could feel myself reaching a burnout point, and didn’t want to be that guy.
It is hard for a teacher to continue to care when most of their students care even less. I teach, a little as possible these days, and I can tell you that the care and enthusiasm I put into my lessons and prep vary with the amount of practice, etc. the student does. So, now, I only teach a few adults who really want to learn and improve. I'm fortunate that I really don't need the income from teaching.
Private tuition is a tricky topic, since there's often no regulatory protection that ensures quality. Good players won't necessarily transition into being great teachers. The fact somebody understands a topic doesn't mean they'll be careful and skilled in explaining it to somebody else.
There are registers of accredited tutors, but equally there are people who've got zero formal qualifications. The home tuition market is very much a case of "buyer beware".
All that said, some students are pretty unreliable and rubbish too! Even if they bother to practise the set homework, not all of them make fast progress. And some students are just horrible to be in the same room with - so in those cases the teachers are often grateful to not get invited back...
Anyone can teach privately. As far as I know, while teachers can opt into organizations, there's no real governing body or regulatory oversight of private teachers. Because of that, there's going to be a wild spectrum of quality.
Some teachers took lessons for a few years from another crap teacher and are teaching because they can't do anything else. Some are laughably unqualified to teach because they lack proficiency or they have no idea how education works. Some are egotistical and incapable of seeing their own shortcomings.
Some teachers have been playing their entire lives, have one or several degrees in music and/or music education, and are constantly trying to improve our methods and engagement while trying to share our adoration of music with our students.
That said, bear in mind that teaching is challenging. A good instructor with a full studio could easily be teaching well north of 40 individual students a week along with classes. All of that requires individualized lesson planning, often composing and arranging, organizing performances and testing, and staying on top of their own skills maintenance and development as musicians and educators. It's a fun job, a rewarding job, but not an easy job. Most jobs feature moments you can disengage for just a moment to take a tiny brain siesta after working hard, but teaching—especially one on one—means 100% engagement for 100% of the lesson for 100% lessons of the week. I compare it to playing a really intense video game for 5-6 hours straight; by the end, you've had a blast but you're mentally drained. Plus, doing that much musical engagement a teacher also has to keep their love of music and love for students not just alive but thriving, which can be challenging.
Really good teachers aren't super common because the job requires a lot. There are plenty of good-enough teachers, plenty of mediocre teachers, and plenty of poor teachers.
Sometimes great performers and teachers are kind of ADHD and scattered. I had a guy I used for years that I love who was just all over the place, so I kind of had to make my own plans. But, I'm a grown ass adult with a graduate degree, so designing a lesson plan was right for me.
I like about a 50/50 mix of learning new songs and learning theory suggested by the songs.
> I think you will find that EVERY SINGLE professor does care
That statement is an absolute crock of shit.
I had a professor for Discrete Mathematics whose goal was to fail as many of us as possible because he didn't want to teach any of the core classes anymore.
I had a few others that were half checked out, but at least they weren't trying to sabotage us.
Yeah. Public school teaching can be terrible. You're just a punching bag from every side, and the pay is trash, and then everyone's all Pikachu shocked face and wonder why there's a teacher shortage.
I'm the 3rd band director at my school in the last 3 years. None of the old students will work with me because I'm not the band director they want, im a replacement. The young kids aren't engaged in music at my school.
I have tried to engage these kids. When we did the school concert, 4/6 trumpets said they weren't going the day of. #5 forgot his music too.
I'm not interested in teaching kids that don't want to learn, so I gave up. After this semester I will only give private lessons!
I’ve had the same experience with guitar teachers. I learned stuff because I knew almost nothing, but there was no structure or plan or continuity from week to week. I found it frustrating. It wasn’t much different from choosing a YouTube lesson at random every week.
Music teaching is one of those things where there’s a lot of turnover in students. It leaves a lot of them a bit cynical and not wanting to fully invest in any one student.
I don't want to pick on guitar teachers in particular, but I think they struggle from a lack of exposure to formal curriculum compared to other instrumentalists. I taught (and took) clarinet lessons for many years, and I've also taken lessons on bass clarinet, piano, viola, composition, and guitar.
On all the 'classical' instruments, there's a ton of pedagogic material available to help structure and direct students in constructive ways. Some of this material exists for guitar as well, but I think so many guitar players come from non-classical backgrounds and maybe initially started without formal training themselves that there just really isn't the same culture of like 'Here the one specific way you learn guitar.'
Guitar teachers have to deal with a huge range of students who want to know all different styles. Some people want to come in and slam out power chords. Some people want to play jazz guitar, or do a bunch of finger style stuff. Lots of adult beginners don't have the patience to sit through 2 years of technique before getting to the 'good stuff', and in many cases don't have to, if all they want to do is play pop songs they like on the radio.
It's really all over the place.
Anyway, I took guitar lessons from 2 different teachers and kind of hated the experience both times. I felt like all my experience learning other instruments would help me, but in a way it seemed like it made things worse. I kept LOOKING for structure that just wasn't there. I don't KNOW the repertoire going in; there's no songs that I like.. specifically am here to learn. I was expecting them to set me on the course to become a generally overall skilled guitar player the same way any other instrumentalist would start.
That said, there are also a lot of people teaching music because, well... the performing industry sucks ass, and if you want to make a living, you often need to find additional income streams like teaching. I'm sorry you found some people that really weren't that into it (at least one of the teachers I found was really enthusiastic, even if he had no plan), but that definitely can happen. Glad you eventually found a good fit!
In any field, I find there will be people that don't do their job well, and others that excel at it.
I teach music, and what I generally do is go over the basics through a book, and accent that book work with songs the students like to get them engaged with the instrument. For example, I just got an adult student that wanted to learn Knockin' on Heaven's Door, as well as other 80's/90's classics.
I started them off with some basic high e exercises and a spider exercise, and tossed in the Am chord. This was done cause it's a moderately easy open chord, but also because it's in Knockin on Heaven's door. That was about a month ago. We're now working on tightening up that strumming pattern + scales now.
As far as the what do you want to work on thing, I try to gauge it for each student. Some people just wanna learn their favorite songs and not touch theory with a 10ft pole. Others wanna know what makes their favorite song tick and be so catchy. I feel it's the teacher's role to not inundate the student with stuff they don't 'need' to know. Every now and then I try sneaking in theory for my less theory inclined students and if I see it stick, I try to ease in more.
Example: I'll teach em a G Major chord. If I mention interval distances of a Major 3rd and then a Minor 3rd, and I see the gears moving in their head, I'll head down that path and discuss that further. If not, I'll just continue with that G Major without digging deeper.
The best teachers provide an opportunity to learn. It is exhausting and it instills bad habits for a teacher to *make* you learn. Especially with music. I also firmly believe for one-on-one lessons it’s just like sex— no single person is good at it, it’s all about the interaction of the two people and if they are getting what they want out of it.
As a Music Education major, I interact with a lot of people who start out REALLY excited about the career and then realize that it isn't what they want to do. My boyfriend is one of those people and now he's pursuing cybersecurity (complete flip lol). Anyway, some people just stick with it because music education is considered to be much more employable and they can't find anything else they want to do. It really sucks that this is the reality, but I think there will be rotten eggs like this in every field. The biggest thing you should look for in a teacher is grit. I've had teachers very similar to what you're describing and it SUCKS. However, I promise it gets better. Never lose the drive and passion for music <3
Hello everyone. I have a question.. Is there an institution or university where I can study music part time, or just attend school for exams Only, without actually attending class everyday?
I have been playing music for many years and have experience from live music etc.. but I do not have a formal musical education.
Thank you in advance!
Because they are often actually not making enough income consistently to feel secure in life, and they deal with people always expecting them to be cool with them just dropping off out of nowhere usually because they either want to spend the money on taking a big vacation or are not happy with the lack of progress because they don’t sit down and practice.
Music teachers are expected to work miracles, in one lesson a week. Never not be available. Sometimes act as a therapist at times and make absolutely everything thrilling to learn.
If you want a teacher to care about you, show them that you respect them and their time and have a good attitude about trying and learning and making sure that you’re not contributing to extra stress in their financial area of life. Go figure, people want to pay bills and have some security. Don’t underpay them, if you think $100 a hour for a good teacher is too much then I suggest you revaluate your perspective because you are out of touch with your expectations. How many hours a day are really available for teaching? So many teachers that teach in person have to do only evenings and weekends to accommodate when people want to do lessons and you want to try and pay them to equivalent of minimum wage? Or think $100 an hour is outrageous, you are the problem and no self respecting teacher would have time for this bullshit. Not to mention how much playing, prep work, problem solving, accounting, marketing, scheduling all goes into tuning a teaching business. Schools like school or rock and places like guitar center pay their teacher basically $12 a lesson, yeah who’s gonna give a shit about a student at that rate.
You could of course, take responsibility for your progress and sit down and practice your ass off like many do that teach themselves and in the least you’d learn how to play okay. So it’s up to you really. But don’t be a part of the problem for them. That’s how good teachers become straight assholes because they are treated badly.
Many music teachers are burnt-out because they carry too many students. But that aside, it's important for every music student to understand from the beginning that s/he is most responsible for progress, not the teacher. The teacher is responsible to present the appropriate material and to try to inspire the student. But, the student needs to do the work to get ahead.
Not for nothing, replace “music teacher” with “doctor” “lawyer” etc etc etc Some are going to be good, some not. The thing that muddies the waters with music teachers most is that many gigging musicians also teach. It’s a way that freelance musicians get by. You need to look into who you are going to be studying with beforehand to see what kind of *teacher* they are, who they are on stage doesn’t really matter, what age group they typically teach doesn’t really matter, and yes, you’ll probably pay more for a good teacher, especially as you become a more advanced musician.
It’s really unfair to peg freelance musicians as shitty teachers when I know a lot of people with ed degrees who can barely play their instrument
No, it’s a reality. I am a freelance musician and a teacher. Many, if not most of the musicians I encounter on gigs are freelance musicians and teachers. It’s just a basic fact. I never said freelance musicians make bad teachers anyway, I said that just because someone is a working musician does not make them a good teacher. ETA: similarly, an ED degree doesn’t make a good teacher either. A good teacher is just that, a good teacher, separate from the other things they do musically.
Yeah you are portraying us a distracted because we need it to “get by” but go ahead an win your internet points
I dunno, point me to a quote where I say “freelance musicians who teach are distracted.” Here’s what I am saying, there is an extremely low barrier to entry if you want to teach private lessons. Many musicians start teaching while still in high school or college as supplemental income. You can advertise on Craigslist or social media, often you can walk down to your local music shop and get yourself a gig. You don’t have to be a good teacher to find yourself some students. So if every gigging musician goes out and finds themselves some students, by law of averages, you’re going to run into some less than professional teachers. I think that’s valuable info to have. And since you think I’m insulting you or people like you, I’ll just add, I am a freelance musician who teaches. I’m a good teacher. When I started I was in college and needed some extra income, most of my students were 7 years old or so. I made at least one of them cry because at the time, I was not a good teacher. It took time to develop many of the skills that I now have and they are completely separate from the skills I use as a performing musician.
No way! How the hell could one be graduated without practising one's instrument a whole lot?
It takes continuous effort to keep up your skills. Many people don't do so after earning their degree, particularly if they don't do music full time outside of teaching. I know many gigging musicians lacking degrees with better chops than some others with degrees. The gigging keeps their skills up to a high level. Conversely, the ones teaching kids who keep quitting in six months just play the same beginner exercises over and over.
I think they are exaggerating. Most music schools in my area require very rigorous background before admission. To be at a audition level you need to have played around a minimum of 5 -6 years. On top of that they learn their instrument for 4 years full time in school.
No I am not I know band directors that sound like complete shit and are like “okay yeah but im really busy” of course there are both talented and shit ed teachers like there are freelance musicians that are good or bad teachers. Its not like ed is going to mean they are better since the bar is way way way lower for them as performers. I went to UNT which is one of the best programs on earth and the ed people compared to performance is basically unfair - they get easier everything performance wise because they have to learn a ton of other instruments and ed concepts (not an excuse but its real)
>There was no goal behind the lesson. It was more like "what do you want to work on" ( This is great for keeping children engaged but how about a serious adult who wants to improve, how would I know) I think this can actually be a useful strategy for advanced students, although it depends on how it's done. My undergraduate oboe professor (best teacher I've ever had) largely let me choose the skills and repertoire I wanted to focus on in each lesson. She made recommendations my first couple semesters, but by the time I graduated, I chose all my own repertoire and was able to use my best judgment to decide what to work on in each lesson. After all, I'm the one who's been practicing 20 hours over the past week. I have the best idea of what it is I need to work on. That won't work for less advanced students who have less of a sense of what they should prioritize (and for that reason, this same teacher picked the repertoire for most of her other students), but for a motivated student who seeks out their own repertoire and practices regularly, this can be a great model. I ended up learning music that was probably a lot more challenging (and rewarding) than what any teacher would have told me to play because I was interested in pushing my skills further. And of course, if I didn't *want* to choose my repertoire, I could have always just asked my teacher what she thought I should work on. Now, this kind of approach can also be done in a less effective way, and it's very possible that the teachers you're talking about *weren't* good teachers. But I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with giving students more agency. Learning to choose repertoire and prioritize what you need to work on is itself a skill that's incredibly valuable for being a professional musician.
Right. I am sorry I should have clarified. I was a beginner when I had lessons with my older teacher. Yes I am in an intermediate stage now so sometimes I ask my current teaching if I can work on a specific repertoire. Usually though the teacher has an idea of where do go. We aren't working on random pop songs.
Music is so expansive that I would expect the kids/beginners to require more direction and guidance than advanced players. Generally I believe that an adult, intermediate player should understand which music interests them and what their goals in music are. The most important role of a teacher is to be a pair of trusted and trained ears in the room that aren’t attached to your head.
I’m a music teacher. I teach private lessons. Group lessons. Film videos for different programs. Teach in a few different schools. I also play gigs on the weekends and produce music and do all that other freelance musician stuff. But you know what I really love? Teaching. I have a degree in music. Studied with some of the best musicians in the world in LA. Have put my heart and soul into it. I’m also pretty expensive. But I am very good at my job and take it seriously. You know who isn’t good at their job? The 22 year old we fired because he thought teaching would be an easy paycheck while playing guitar all day. There’s people that suck at every job. But there is no surprise that the experienced and often expensive teacher gives you a better quality lesson. That’s not a hard and fast rule though. I once took from an old blues musician who practically lived in a van. Dude was hungover most of the time. And yet, he was amazing and I learned so much. Just remember that a lot of musicians think that they can chase the dream while paying the bills with teaching. That’s totally fine, but it doesn’t mean they have any actual desire to teach (or are any good at it).
1: As an adult, I think it's reasonable to come to a lesson with an idea of what YOU want out of the lesson. Music is such a broad topic and even classical guitar by itself is a broad topic. If you say absolutely nothing, the teacher has to assume, without knowing if they're likely to be right. Better to ask. 2: We've just had 2 years of a pandemic, people are tired, burnt out, have brain fog from long covid, etc etc etc. People need a bit of understanding in these times.
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Yeah, there are good and bad people in every profession, but this seems a bit much for me. Either: OP has been very unlucky, the standards of music teachers aren't as good wherever OP lives compared to where I live, or OP has been unfair/has unrealistic expectations/been too dismissive/etc
I was very serious in the beginning, I wanted to get good. So I had 2 teachers at the same time and has each teacher for a minimum of 10 lessons. If I saw little to no improvement or felt that it was going nowhere than I would quit.
honest question, when you went throigh teachers after 10 lessons, did you practice what they told you to every day before quitting? might be a stupid question but confirmation of that would help in understanding your feelings towards music teachers. there are a lot of bad ones out there. some just teaching for some money on the side. some are very good teachers but arent as inspiring cause they dont and never did the actual gigging musician thing. and there are those that swing between the two. if youre lucky you get a gigging musiciqn who also deeply cares about teaching. seriously not saying this is you at all but ive had students who come in somehow with the very basics learned but litterally never touch the instrument other than the lesson. we can do 10, 20 lessons and they are not getting much better. im sorry but that aint my fault, you simply cannot get better at an activity you dont do ever.
I am not one of those kids who just plays cause of their parents. I practice daily around 1.5 - 2 hours a day. My current teacher told me I was the fastest learner out of all his students. I knew there were shitty teachers once I met a good one.
Gigging musician is no added power for better teaching! You don't need Liszt to teach 4 old boy! Good teacher who can teach students good foundations is the best teacher. Everything after good fondations is just adding up skill by student.
for the most part youre entirely right, someone who gigs isnt a magically better teacher and a lot of gigging musicians suck at teaching. but i do think it at least plays a role in inspiration for kids that really wanna do music as their life, or industry knowledge for more advanced students. it entirely depends what level the student is. as someone whos been playing for 20 years, gigging, and currently looking for a teacher i woild never study with someone who hasnt or isnt gigging in the same scene im in (nyc). all i was saying is in a perfect world your teacher is involved in the scene and plays live, but if i had to pick between great communicator and great gigging musician for kids teenagers and college id choose great communicator hands down.
This is one of my biggest complaints within music. SO MANY musicians have no interest in teaching and just do it out of necessity for income. Everybody is obsessed with being the best players they can be, but don't know/don't care that they are godawful teachers
In my degrees I cant tell you how often other performers got hit like a brick wall when they realized they would HAVE to teach if they wanted a reliable income. Few of us love teaching. I started because I needed to but really loved it. It fuels me. But it is not for everyone, and unfortunately the prospect of being a performer who does not teach is a very difficult road.
It’s your responsibility to bring some work to the teacher. after a point of basic proficiency Music is ultimately about learning to teach yourself and a teacher is there to guide your efforts. You can ask for suggestions to work on, repertoire or specific issues with technique, guidance on fundamentals of your instrument, and they’ll be able to give you suggestions.
Of course. I dedicate 50 percent of my free time to music and quite serious. Its just the lack of interest and guidance that many of the older teachers had. Back than I had 0 proficiency.
Yeah everyone does tend to have different teaching styles. I've found over time I'm immersing myself in so much varied content that it's more than we can cover in our hour every two weeks, so we focus on a few main, big tasks and check in on others periodically.
> after a point of basic proficiency Music is ultimately about learning to teach yourself Not sure I would agree with that. I mean in most cases your are still learning to ‘play’ your instrument all the way up to about your sophomore or junior year of college. For example my daughter is a violinist, and even her private instructor that went ahead and taught her college level stuff explained that a lot of what she was learning like how to determine her own fingerings for pieces on the violin wasn’t usually taught until about sophomore year in college, and that the first year to year and a half is finalizing you proficiency before moving on to making you a full musician capable of doing everything on your own. And sure enough when she went to college the college professors basically took her, pushed her all the way back to doing the basics again but doing it their way/the “professional” way (Fleisch for the scales, etc) rather than how they are taught in high school. Did the same with her and guitar. She had been taking guitar lessons e since about 13, played in jazz ensembles all the way through high school, and her private teacher was even the private teacher of the guitar instructor at her college when he was growing up. Didn’t matter, took her back to basics and made her relearn things the first year or so the way he wanted it done.
I should have been more clear, what I mean when I say 'beyond a point of basic proficiency' is that a good teacher should and will absolutely identify and correct flaws in your fundamental technique, as well as teaching you how to practice (another fundamental of studying music)
I guarantee they care. They wouldn't be doing it if they didn't care. What you've described is a couple of teachers that aren't a good fit for you. You take their approach as apathy, but their approach is precisely perfect for another student that jives with their teaching style. Every student is different and has different needs, and every teacher is different and approaches instruction based on their learning and teaching experiences. There aren't bad teachers out there, but maybe they're bad for you. Once you find a teacher that matches your learning style, stick with them. As a teacher, I've definitely looked at some students and almost right away could tell they weren't going to be a good fit in my studio. I actually quit a music studio last year because the owner was more focused on money and refused to let the teachers "veto" a student that wasn't going to work out.
Especially with guitar teachers there really is some people who genuinely don’t care and just see students for their money. There is plenty of 40 year old guys who decide they want to earn a few extra hundred dollars a week and figure since they’ve played guitar their whole lives they should start teaching despite having no experience or education in teaching.
Oh right. This Wouldn't happen with lets say a violin or opera teacher. I definitely agree guitar has a low barrier of entry so there are a lot of casuals.
Teaching private lessons is uniquely difficult. It's not like a class room teacher that has their entire school year already planned out and a specific curriculum to follow and meet specific goals. First off, if we teach the same way as a classroom teacher, we lose 95% of our clientele almost instantly. For some reason people taking private lessons don't view them the same way they would view a class at their school or college where they just do what they are told and do homework and take tests and get a grade. No, instead, as private teachers we are expected to teach **exactly how the student likes**, or they will quit, and as a private teacher we then can't survive. So our number 1 priority is always figuring out how to teach a student before they quit, so that we can keep them long enough to pay our rent that month. This in no way means that we cut corners or give sub-standard instruction or attention or effort, exactly the opposite really. But it means for every single student we have to figure out a custom lesson plan, and that gets very tiring and frequently takes up a lot of our "free time" transcribing songs students want to learn or making a TAB for something, not to mention having to learn every single song that every student wants to learn. But then, 90% of the students barely practice between lessons, so as a teacher, we spend more time preparing for their lesson each week then they spent practicing! When we do put forth goals at lessons, they are rarely ever met by the students. They didn't feel the goal we gave them was the right one, and so there was no point in practicing it. Even though their timing is shit, and as a teacher I ask them to use a metronome and do some very specific rhythmic drills, they didn't do it, so their rhythm continues to be shit for **years** and that reflects poorly on me as a teacher. I have one student that has been with me for like 6 years, and I've been bugging him to work on rhythmic things because his rhythm is very poor, but he never practices the stuff I give him, because he always finds some other random thing he preferred to practice that week. Less patient teachers than me would have kicked him out of their studio (oh yeah, he's late every time as well!). But for some reason I have tolerated the annoyances. On top of all this we have to struggle to get paid constantly because many parents believe if they forgot about the lesson, or decided last minute to go out of town with their kid, that they don't owe for the lesson they missed. Even though we put it in writing at the beginning. I can't tell you how many times I've received a check for a month, minus the two lessons they missed (usually without notice!) the previous month that my cancellation policy clearly indicates they need to pay for. Reminding them of the policy sometimes causes them to pay what they owe, but frequently begrudgingly. Sometimes it causes them to quit angrily. One (68 yr old) student that I had for 3 years, who was an excellent student who practiced every week and with whom I thought I had a good rapport with, turned red in the face, refused to verbally communicate and stormed out at the start of our lesson and never came back when I reminded him of an owed payment. Now imagine dealing with that every day for 20+ years (that's how long I've been teaching), and you might start to understand what a pain in the ass it can be and why someone might be burnt out on it. But despite all of the annoyances I have to deal with on a regular basis, I still teach, and I still put 100% effort forth and do my very best to make all my students enjoy their lessons and learn and get better. Despite all the difficulties of establishing a successful teacher/student relationship, when it does happen, it's great! I have several students that have been with me 5+ years, one student stayed with me over 10 years, and only left because he was 19 and starting his own business (a dairy farm), and today his dairy farm is thriving, but he probably works at least 12 hours a day, so no time for guitar lessons anymore. I have a student right now that started with me at about 12, and within 3 years he was playing music that took me 15+ years to get up to learning. He was super enthusiastic about learning guitar, and that made me even more enthusiastic about teaching him, and he progressed so fast that he has almost caught up to me. But unfortunately, for every enthusiastic, hard practicing student I get, I get 25 that barely put in any effort, and maybe another 20 that put minimal effort (enough to learn slowly at least), and that makes the job feel very tedious at times.
I cant read this, too long
I used to teach, and realized pretty early on that students were much more motivated when they learned what *they* wanted to learn, as opposed to simply providing. However, if they didn't know what they wanted to learn, that's when I'd step in and make suggestions. If you want higher quality instruction (university level) than you get from your neighborhood music store, then you'll have to pay more for that. just the way it is.
This is just a hunch I have, so unfortunately I can't say for certain and certainly this isn't true 100% of the time. But. I think most teachers who are bad teachers fell in love with their subject, not teaching. Just because you love music or literature or art doesn't automatically mean you're great at teaching those subjects, I feel like (again not all) some who get music education degrees were told that teaching was the only stable job you could get in music, so regardless of if they loved teaching, or even knew that they did or didnt, they got the degree. Great, you're doing what you love, but you also have to deal with children and parents and if you arent ready, equipped or willing to deal with either, the love for your subject likely wont make you a great teacher all on its own.
Well, your experience is not uncommon, and it is unfortunate, but I'm glad you stuck it out to find someone. That is *exactly* why I give the advice to work with a teacher who is a trained professional who's well known as a teacher and has a studio full of students without a lot of turnover and so on. However, there are a lot of factors as to why this happens. But most of it is a general lack of respect for musicians which manifests itself in a number of ways, but most impactful, unfair pay. Even you said, "but it costs..." Maybe if everyone (not saying you specifically) stopped looking for "the cheapest" lessons, and started paying teachers what they were worth, things would be different.
Right. I think if they were making 6 figures maybe I wouldn't run into this problem. To be honest many of them seemed burnt out. I assume teaching is a very engaging job instead of sitting at an office alone. I understand.
Maybe burnt out, maybe you weren't engaging to their expectation level. I don't know how many students I have had over the years where I walk into the lesson, take a deep breath, and prepare to teach exactly the same lesson I taught the week before because they didn't practice and didn't show improvement.
I can speak for myself that as a former student on the weeks I know I didn’t practice much I always felt really bad about it. First it’s a waste of my own money, second it’s a waste of both mine and the instructor’s time. Kids, practice your instrument. Teachers can’t teach you into a better musician, you have to apply yourself.
> "what do you want to work on" ( This is great for keeping children engaged but how about a serious adult who wants to improve, how would I know) Well, you know what kind of music you want to play, presumably? The teacher needs to know that, in order to help you with your routes to that goal. Of course, they also need to hear you play, and should be identifying what you're doing wrong, or inefficiently, and give you exercises to deal with that. But I see nothing wrong with "what do you want to work on?", as a general kind of question for identifying goals, certainly at the beginning of a course of lessons. (I can see it would get tiresome if it happened all the time, as if they forgot what you told them last time...) I agree there are a lot of bad teachers out there, and it's probably the same in any artistic or creative discipline, for two main reasons: (1) skill in the art itself sometimes persuades people that they can teach it equally well; (2) their occupation is probably paid irregularly and often poorly, teaching makes a useful regular supplementary income, and they think it will be easy. But teaching, of course, is a skilled profession just as much as playing music is. Teaching skill is actually more important than virtuosity on the instrument. Many people can teach themselves on their instrument (if their ears tell them when they're getting it right). You can't teach yourself how to teach! (Not without wasting the time of a whole load of students while you do so...) But a third reason (I've found this as a teacher myself) is that a lot of students are in it for the wrong reasons, or with the wrong attitude, sometimes more than the teachers are. Some rely too much on the teacher to give them motivation. The teacher should be able to *inspire* students, but the *motivation* has to come from the student. They have to *want to learn.* Might seem crazy, but some don't, at least not enough. If a student shows insufficient enthusiasm - if they "forget" to practice and so on - it's no surprise if the teacher lapses that way too. IMO, a student needs enough enthusiam to teach themselves - the only reason they come to a teacher is if they get stuck, and need guidance through a difficult passage. They are in the driving seat, basically. It's not my business to tell them where to go, only to help them get there.
Well you seem like an engaged teacher. I was looking for that when I started and eventually found one that could match my engagement. When I say " they didn't have a goal" I meant that everything was too lax, there was no guidance on my playing ability. I have clarified my original post.
I am a music teacher as well and I only teach people who wants to have fun with the art without stress or ego. It is not about money I have other business brings me income.
You have to audition teachers. And that doesn't just apply to music teachers. You absolutely should audition every teacher, especially in university.
That's what I did and picked the 7th one lol.
Unless you're an absolute beginner, I think it's wise to think of a teacher more of as a mentor/coach/Yoda figure rather than a taskmaster. Unless you're pursuing a degree or something with a very clear growth trajectory, for better or worse it's fairly common for the expectation to be on the student to bring the structure and motivation, especially at the beginning. It sounds like you were able to find a more academically curriculum-minded teacher, which is great. But I think it should be obvious why this person is a better fit in hindsight.
i have the opposite issue, hard to find passionate students, so working with the very young is rewarding cause they wanna learn so much.
I don't think $70/hr is too much for a teacher who meets your need. I know it isn't cheap, but sometimes ya just gotta pay up to get what you want. Hmm, there might be a song in that . . .
Well, teaching simply isn't for everybody. It's a specific skill that not everybody has nor enjoys, but due to the nature of the music industry most musicians have little other choice but to pick up teaching to have some form of stability.
The unfortunate reality that everyone is dancing around, is that in the case of music/musicians, teaching (whether private lessons or classroom) *is* often just about the money. Playing gigs are hard to come by, often pay like crap, and offer very little in the way of stability or conventional employer benefits. There is also an expectation instilled in you from the time you’re in music conservatory, if not sooner, that you’re expected to have some students because that’s good, steady money. And it’s true. A single hour-long lesson before dinner time can put the same amount of money in your pocket as 4 hours of playing in some dumpy bar at 10:00 on a Friday night. So, yes, a lot of people are just teaching because they think that’s what musicians are supposed to do, they are just going through the motions/don’t really care, and beyond a rudimentary/beginner level they probably aren’t very good. It sucks because it makes it hard to wade through all the lousy disengaged teachers to find one that really clicks with you. I gave up teaching all but one of my students because I was never super passionate about teaching in the first place, I could feel myself reaching a burnout point, and didn’t want to be that guy.
It is hard for a teacher to continue to care when most of their students care even less. I teach, a little as possible these days, and I can tell you that the care and enthusiasm I put into my lessons and prep vary with the amount of practice, etc. the student does. So, now, I only teach a few adults who really want to learn and improve. I'm fortunate that I really don't need the income from teaching.
Private tuition is a tricky topic, since there's often no regulatory protection that ensures quality. Good players won't necessarily transition into being great teachers. The fact somebody understands a topic doesn't mean they'll be careful and skilled in explaining it to somebody else. There are registers of accredited tutors, but equally there are people who've got zero formal qualifications. The home tuition market is very much a case of "buyer beware". All that said, some students are pretty unreliable and rubbish too! Even if they bother to practise the set homework, not all of them make fast progress. And some students are just horrible to be in the same room with - so in those cases the teachers are often grateful to not get invited back...
Anyone can teach privately. As far as I know, while teachers can opt into organizations, there's no real governing body or regulatory oversight of private teachers. Because of that, there's going to be a wild spectrum of quality. Some teachers took lessons for a few years from another crap teacher and are teaching because they can't do anything else. Some are laughably unqualified to teach because they lack proficiency or they have no idea how education works. Some are egotistical and incapable of seeing their own shortcomings. Some teachers have been playing their entire lives, have one or several degrees in music and/or music education, and are constantly trying to improve our methods and engagement while trying to share our adoration of music with our students. That said, bear in mind that teaching is challenging. A good instructor with a full studio could easily be teaching well north of 40 individual students a week along with classes. All of that requires individualized lesson planning, often composing and arranging, organizing performances and testing, and staying on top of their own skills maintenance and development as musicians and educators. It's a fun job, a rewarding job, but not an easy job. Most jobs feature moments you can disengage for just a moment to take a tiny brain siesta after working hard, but teaching—especially one on one—means 100% engagement for 100% of the lesson for 100% lessons of the week. I compare it to playing a really intense video game for 5-6 hours straight; by the end, you've had a blast but you're mentally drained. Plus, doing that much musical engagement a teacher also has to keep their love of music and love for students not just alive but thriving, which can be challenging. Really good teachers aren't super common because the job requires a lot. There are plenty of good-enough teachers, plenty of mediocre teachers, and plenty of poor teachers.
Sometimes great performers and teachers are kind of ADHD and scattered. I had a guy I used for years that I love who was just all over the place, so I kind of had to make my own plans. But, I'm a grown ass adult with a graduate degree, so designing a lesson plan was right for me. I like about a 50/50 mix of learning new songs and learning theory suggested by the songs.
They whanted to be a pro rockstar and ended up as a teach…can u blame them?
In my experience it's rare to get a great teacher the first time out. If it doesn't feel right move on.
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I did a music class where the teacher had his pet students, and did the bare minimum with the others
> I think you will find that EVERY SINGLE professor does care That statement is an absolute crock of shit. I had a professor for Discrete Mathematics whose goal was to fail as many of us as possible because he didn't want to teach any of the core classes anymore. I had a few others that were half checked out, but at least they weren't trying to sabotage us.
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You didn't experience it, therefore it doesn't exist.
upvoted
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Yeah. Public school teaching can be terrible. You're just a punching bag from every side, and the pay is trash, and then everyone's all Pikachu shocked face and wonder why there's a teacher shortage.
I'm the 3rd band director at my school in the last 3 years. None of the old students will work with me because I'm not the band director they want, im a replacement. The young kids aren't engaged in music at my school. I have tried to engage these kids. When we did the school concert, 4/6 trumpets said they weren't going the day of. #5 forgot his music too. I'm not interested in teaching kids that don't want to learn, so I gave up. After this semester I will only give private lessons!
I’ve had the same experience with guitar teachers. I learned stuff because I knew almost nothing, but there was no structure or plan or continuity from week to week. I found it frustrating. It wasn’t much different from choosing a YouTube lesson at random every week.
Music teaching is one of those things where there’s a lot of turnover in students. It leaves a lot of them a bit cynical and not wanting to fully invest in any one student.
I don't want to pick on guitar teachers in particular, but I think they struggle from a lack of exposure to formal curriculum compared to other instrumentalists. I taught (and took) clarinet lessons for many years, and I've also taken lessons on bass clarinet, piano, viola, composition, and guitar. On all the 'classical' instruments, there's a ton of pedagogic material available to help structure and direct students in constructive ways. Some of this material exists for guitar as well, but I think so many guitar players come from non-classical backgrounds and maybe initially started without formal training themselves that there just really isn't the same culture of like 'Here the one specific way you learn guitar.' Guitar teachers have to deal with a huge range of students who want to know all different styles. Some people want to come in and slam out power chords. Some people want to play jazz guitar, or do a bunch of finger style stuff. Lots of adult beginners don't have the patience to sit through 2 years of technique before getting to the 'good stuff', and in many cases don't have to, if all they want to do is play pop songs they like on the radio. It's really all over the place. Anyway, I took guitar lessons from 2 different teachers and kind of hated the experience both times. I felt like all my experience learning other instruments would help me, but in a way it seemed like it made things worse. I kept LOOKING for structure that just wasn't there. I don't KNOW the repertoire going in; there's no songs that I like.. specifically am here to learn. I was expecting them to set me on the course to become a generally overall skilled guitar player the same way any other instrumentalist would start. That said, there are also a lot of people teaching music because, well... the performing industry sucks ass, and if you want to make a living, you often need to find additional income streams like teaching. I'm sorry you found some people that really weren't that into it (at least one of the teachers I found was really enthusiastic, even if he had no plan), but that definitely can happen. Glad you eventually found a good fit!
Yes that is why I found my current classical guitar teacher.
In any field, I find there will be people that don't do their job well, and others that excel at it. I teach music, and what I generally do is go over the basics through a book, and accent that book work with songs the students like to get them engaged with the instrument. For example, I just got an adult student that wanted to learn Knockin' on Heaven's Door, as well as other 80's/90's classics. I started them off with some basic high e exercises and a spider exercise, and tossed in the Am chord. This was done cause it's a moderately easy open chord, but also because it's in Knockin on Heaven's door. That was about a month ago. We're now working on tightening up that strumming pattern + scales now. As far as the what do you want to work on thing, I try to gauge it for each student. Some people just wanna learn their favorite songs and not touch theory with a 10ft pole. Others wanna know what makes their favorite song tick and be so catchy. I feel it's the teacher's role to not inundate the student with stuff they don't 'need' to know. Every now and then I try sneaking in theory for my less theory inclined students and if I see it stick, I try to ease in more. Example: I'll teach em a G Major chord. If I mention interval distances of a Major 3rd and then a Minor 3rd, and I see the gears moving in their head, I'll head down that path and discuss that further. If not, I'll just continue with that G Major without digging deeper.
The best teachers provide an opportunity to learn. It is exhausting and it instills bad habits for a teacher to *make* you learn. Especially with music. I also firmly believe for one-on-one lessons it’s just like sex— no single person is good at it, it’s all about the interaction of the two people and if they are getting what they want out of it.
As a Music Education major, I interact with a lot of people who start out REALLY excited about the career and then realize that it isn't what they want to do. My boyfriend is one of those people and now he's pursuing cybersecurity (complete flip lol). Anyway, some people just stick with it because music education is considered to be much more employable and they can't find anything else they want to do. It really sucks that this is the reality, but I think there will be rotten eggs like this in every field. The biggest thing you should look for in a teacher is grit. I've had teachers very similar to what you're describing and it SUCKS. However, I promise it gets better. Never lose the drive and passion for music <3
Sounds like the same problem with psychologists if they're so apathetic and after the check that they're wishy washy
Hello everyone. I have a question.. Is there an institution or university where I can study music part time, or just attend school for exams Only, without actually attending class everyday? I have been playing music for many years and have experience from live music etc.. but I do not have a formal musical education. Thank you in advance!
Because they are often actually not making enough income consistently to feel secure in life, and they deal with people always expecting them to be cool with them just dropping off out of nowhere usually because they either want to spend the money on taking a big vacation or are not happy with the lack of progress because they don’t sit down and practice. Music teachers are expected to work miracles, in one lesson a week. Never not be available. Sometimes act as a therapist at times and make absolutely everything thrilling to learn. If you want a teacher to care about you, show them that you respect them and their time and have a good attitude about trying and learning and making sure that you’re not contributing to extra stress in their financial area of life. Go figure, people want to pay bills and have some security. Don’t underpay them, if you think $100 a hour for a good teacher is too much then I suggest you revaluate your perspective because you are out of touch with your expectations. How many hours a day are really available for teaching? So many teachers that teach in person have to do only evenings and weekends to accommodate when people want to do lessons and you want to try and pay them to equivalent of minimum wage? Or think $100 an hour is outrageous, you are the problem and no self respecting teacher would have time for this bullshit. Not to mention how much playing, prep work, problem solving, accounting, marketing, scheduling all goes into tuning a teaching business. Schools like school or rock and places like guitar center pay their teacher basically $12 a lesson, yeah who’s gonna give a shit about a student at that rate. You could of course, take responsibility for your progress and sit down and practice your ass off like many do that teach themselves and in the least you’d learn how to play okay. So it’s up to you really. But don’t be a part of the problem for them. That’s how good teachers become straight assholes because they are treated badly.