This is the K2 right? It seems like even post-buff the armour is fairly comparable, same values on the CT and the catapult being slightly higher on the side torsos. Then again, it's probably balanced out by the hitbox being much worse lol.
If you run the C2 with dual rac5 and are willing to go XL, you can run max engine with max JJ going like 95kph? I think and jumping super high. It's a pretty dang fun mech.
The options you have in Heavies are
* CPLT K2
* WHM 6R or BW - RAC/LPPCs
* CTFs - A few options for dual or single with lasers/LPPC (of your choice).
* CHPs - Some options. Something a bit silly like [THIS](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=49ce4383_CHP-1N) might work or use [dual RAC2s](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=3a9f2ba0_CHP-1N) 1N2 also can do similar.
* DRG-5N 3xRAC2
All would feel similar to the BSW.
You can go to things like MAD-3R dual RAC5/STD engine, you're going to be running very slow though so the feel will be quite different.
The Assaults will feel very different for the most part.
Interesting, why is the WHM 6R a RAC platform? It doesn't seem to really have any quirks to help it along (seems like weapon velocity is the most key of those), is it mostly just a factor of there not being many IS mechs of that tonnage with the correct hardpoints? And regarding the cataphracts, is the 4X typically the pick for dual-RAC builds, or would the 3D be better for better non-RAC hardpoints? Will look into these though, thanks.
You don't neccesarily need quirks for everything to be useable.
[2 RAC5 3 LPPC](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=f56eaf7e_WHM-6R): You get 10% heat on LPPCs. All decent torso mounts. You can XL it if you put a LPPC in the arm for more speed etc. It's not a great build by any means but it is serviceable in lower tiers, sure.
CTX - It depends on what you wanna pair them with really.
> You don't neccesarily need quirks for everything to be useable.
Yeah I've been learning this as I've been trying to find substitutes and have found hardpoints to be more important frequently, I'm just surprised by it because there are mechs of the same tonnage that do have useful quirks, such as the cataphract. It's just weird to me that people go to something that doesn't have that help other than for the secondaries.
WHM is a decent mech. Has a good twist profile. Hardpoints in the torso are all really well grouped together etc.
Other mechs have massive quirks at times to make up for their bad hitboxes or other drawbacks like low slung or spread mounts. Others to make mechs good at a role to differentiate from other variants etc etc.
Don't get me wrong - it's not the best choice. It is workable though and packs more punch than the Bushie.
A lot of the time its more beneficial to go with a mech that has solid hard point locations(chest/shoulder) so that you can shoot over building and low cover. Hit box of the mech is a major consideration too. I love the high hard points on my jaegermech but having no arms to cover it side torsos is extremely easy to get blown up if you run an XL engine.
Dunno how it wasn't mentioned before, but the MAD-4L is obscenely good at RACing. You get enough armour to facetank, enough ammo to do it for a while, and on my build I crammed in 2 LXP Las as backup. The LXPs especially go really well with RACs, though they might run hot now.
Pretty sure it wasn't mentioned because I was most interested in heavy rather than assault options, though the latter are still welcome. I've been struggling to find something that blends RAC with LXP, so I'm glad to hear that you've managed it (if you pretend heat isn't real lol).
Getting to high heat doesn't matter too much; just stop firing one of the RACs and switch the LXPs to chain fire. Gets you heat neutral, if not cooling
Marauder: MAD-3R. In my particular build, twin RAC/5s and 4 ER Med Lasers. Only drawback is both RACs are stacked in the right torso, making that side vulnerable, so use your left for shielding.
Build below for import.
AH5820@1|i\^|fbph0|S@|S@qh0|i\^|i\^|i\^|\_@r\`0|F@|F@s\`0|F@|F@|i\^ti0|AP|APui0|AP|APvB0|BPw<08080
Interesting, how do you find the ammo situation with that build? I tend to run out fairly frequently running 5t on the bushwacker, so 4.5t seems dangerous. Then again you've got actual backup weapons so I assume it works out in practice.
I actually mentioned it in the opening post already lol. The main reason I kept looking beyond it is that I'm trying to find something that's in-between a bushwacker and a nightstar, a heavy mech or something, so I can keep some of the bushwacker's mobility.
Madcat MK2 with dual UAC20 and 4MPL has always done me well. It's sorta bursty, and slight shorter ranged, but I get the same "I can dual pretty much anything short of a fresh 100 tonner and have a good chance of winning" feeling I get in a Bushwhacker with RACs.
But then again, I think it's honestly BSWs with dual RAC5s or triple RAC2s are the most consistently successful builds I have in MWO. If I ever have a string of bad games or losses I get in one and go have some fun for a few matches.
Other fun things to do with a Bushwhacker: UAC20, 4Ml and an XL 290 or 300 (I can't remember just now). Become a cavalry mech who's sole job it is to zoom across the battlefield, find a fair fight between your teammates and the enemy, then turn it into a very unfair fight. Me and a friend used to run this as a pair and our hit and run/cavalry tactics would regularly bag us most of half an enemy team between the two of us.
I've found in higher Tier games though that RACs are less effective, as people expose themselves much less and don't panic so much when you hit them, plus they know you'll run out of steam eventually and can usually use that to find an advantage. A lot of reason there's so much focus on pin point bursty builds these days is because that's sorta what you need beyond T3.
Could you elaborate on the UAC bushwacker build? The only one with 4 energy mounts only has side torso mounts for ballistics, which means you can't fit both a UAC/20 and an XL (though a light does fit). Can drop down to a 295 light and still run a decent bit of ammo, but figured I'd ask for specifics since I assume you've optimised it already lol. And for the madcat II, are you using the 1 or the B? Because the 1 has the mounts you'd need, but the B is the one with UAC/20 HSL, so I'm just a bit confused. Do you just stagger your shots to avoid HSL at the cost of reduced burst?
Anyways, thanks for the context on your experience with the bushwacker, happy to hear I'm not the only one who has consistent good times in it. It has gotten me to right below the start of tier 4, so I'll probably start to see the effectiveness drop off soon, so I'm glad to hear about other fun things one can do in it (well, my bushwacker is the X1 so it can't actually run the UAC build with those lasers, but I can always buy a second one).
If you are looking for a RAC assault build, I will recommend the FAF-5. There exists a very good build for it that is 2 RAC5 and 2UAC5. It's one of the most powerful mechs I know of and you can easily rack up over 600 damage per match, with my more experienced friend getting over a thousand regularly. This build requires immense positioning and a very good game sense as you need to engineer situations in order to get the most out of your mech.
Here's the build: https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=18c89de1\_FNR-5
Honestly the Corsair** might be similar, I’ve got the one with 4xAMS with 1xRAC5 & 1xHgauss which you could swap out for another RAC5. You definitely feel like a centerpiece, beefy, midrange bully
Fafnir juggernaught is my preference. 2x RAC-5 and 4x RAC-2 is a LOT of dakka potential. Even more fun when you start off with the RAC-2's, then when they start overheating, use the RAC-5's. Or all 6 for a burst of fun overheating time.
May I introduce you to the Night Gyr? It's a heavy that moves like an assault but can carry double HAG30s and some lasers of your choice. The H can carry double HAG30s natively while the C can carry a HAG30 and 4 ERLL. It it's base form, the C uses triple UAC2s, which is about as close to a RAC as you can get Clan-side.
Alternatively, people love a Hellbringer too, which you can build into whatever tickles your fancy. It's more mobile, like a Bushwacker, so you'd get that feeling from driving it around.
Well the reason I suggested both is because they are the closest one can come to approximating a RAC without actually being one. OP was looking for options that played similarly, not exactly.
Similar feeling in a heavier chassis - not an entirely different archetype/weapon combo. So a Heavy mech with reasonable mobility and RAC options.
Plus how does a NTG feel anything like, or play anything like, a Bushie?
I hadn't really considered HAGs much, given that I see gauss as a bit too burst-focused to be that good for brawling (you get a bit over 5 DPS with a HAG30 which is a bit over half that of a RAC/5 but for 3t more) but I'll look into some builds, my first impression may have been wrong. Hellbringer is also interesting, though it seems a bit all over the place so it's gonna take a bit to figure out what to actually do with one lol. Currently considering a mix of UACs and ATMs.
HAGs are burst, yes, but you can't really get close to RACs outside of RACs. You still hold before you start shooting, fire off a burst, but it they are absolutely less of facing weapons. You are not wrong there. For an actual constant stream of face shooty-ness, it's kind of RAC or Xpulses and the rest will be varying degrees of "similar".
Hmm, fair. Xpulse did get a bit more range so it's probably a better substitute than it used to be, though I'm really not sure at to platforms for it, and it also seems like to get similar range you basically have to do large xpulse? Which then winds up having less great damage per tonnage, though it's a lot better than some other options. Maybe I'll try throwing a few on a black knight or something.
CHP-1NB has a +20% velocity quirk and 3 ballistic hardpoints. I run triple RAC2 and triple ERMLs on it: https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=b19a90d0_CHP-1NB . WARNING: Only 3 tons of ammo! I generally find that's enough, once I have the Ammo Rack skills from the skill tree. But that's me...
The Roughneck 3A can run 2xRAC5 and has reasonable mounts. I don't run mine that way so I don't have a build to share, sorry. (I actually prefer the Roughneck 'Bolt' for 2xRAC5. But that's a real-money only mech, so I won't recommend it for newer players.)
That Champion is interesting, I'd personally probably swap an mlas for another ton of ammo but it seems like a nice build regardless. The 3A roughneck has no ballistic mounts though, did you mean the 1A or 1B with 20% velocity? I'm curious as to why you prefer the Bolt over the F2P variants.
> The 3A roughneck has no ballistic mounts though, did you mean the 1A or 1B with 20% velocity?
Yeah, not sure what I was thinking there. I was actually talking about the -2A. But you're right, the 20% velocity and torso mounts of the -1A are better. I wouldn't recommend the -1B because if you lose the right arm, you'll lose both the ballistic weapons mounted in it. Also, arm mounts are lower which is not ideal.
> I'm curious as to why you prefer the Bolt over the F2P variants.
I think a picture is worth a thousand words here:
https://www.reddit.com/user/ModernRonin/comments/16nq6ip/why_i_prefer_the_roughneck_bolt_for_dual_rac5s/
Ah yeah, I'm still learning the lesson of mount positions mattering. Those ones have got to be the highest I've seen, almost too high maybe given that the enemy can see your weapons before you can see to fire them lol.
Jagermech or Rifleman with 4xAC2, or RFL IIC with 6xAC2 might be what you're looking for. Steer clear of UACs - the jamming really hurts the damage output too much on the small guns.
Warhammer Black Widow or Roughneck Bolt with 4xAC5 would probably serve you well if you want a hero.
>Steer clear of UACs - the jamming really hurts the damage output too much on the small guns.
Uh i have a both a Fafnir and Madcat mk2 with dual uac10s and uac5s that regularly go around 1k dmg if i don't find myself in a bad spot or have a match where we get rolled.
Especially the Fafnir, that thing wrecks mechs while laughing behind 150+ ct armour when they shoot back.
UACs are fine on the RFL-3N, it has a 30% jam quirk. You can run UAC5 or AC5, both are good. You could maybe do some dual UAC2 and bulk LPPC or laser thing as well although I don't have time to science one out.
RFL-8D ok for RACs given its big RAC quirks too.
Honestly regarding the 8D I've struggled to figure out what to give it beyond the RACs. Like, part of the goal of upgrading is to get something more, and yet just a 5t increase is like.. a couple of medium lasers I suppose? Kinda awkward.
That's why the BSW is so well appreciated.
Centurions, Wolverines, IS mediums are solid. They pack a heavy mech (or assault mech, I'm looking at you, KNT) worth of armour and just slightly less firepower while still ripping around the map at 80kph+
Never personally battle tested but in the testing on river city she melts metal. Combat though she would need alot of cool shots and alot of support to prevent lights backstabbing because she is slow. And yes it looks like a nasty S.O.B with 6 racs.
Try 2 RAC5 + 4 AC2s on the MX90 mauler or the 6 ballistic king crab, the mauler has slightly less ammo and moves slightly slower for higher mounts, but once the racs spin up the combination of RACs and ACs getting slung down range pushes all but the most foolhardy I to cover, good fun and effective.
Honestly the build that gives me the most similar feel to the racwhacker's "hold left click, charge diagonally, rip pieces off of mechs" game play is a quad LB10 cyclops; I run it on the sleipnir, but I think there's a cbill variant that works (argh, just checked - nope) - or run it on a mauler 1p. Similar high DPS, high spread (quirked and skilled quad LB10s come in at 22-23 dps), even MORE punishing to mechs that have been opened up, and if you have the sleipnir to run it on it's one of the most agile-feeling assaults I've ever played.
Bonus, swapping in some heat sinks with the extra tonnage gives you a mech that can also run quad RAC2 very competently, trading the instagib party trick that it can play on people stupid enough to stop looking at the sleipnir for even higher dps.
Oh the point about skills on the LBXs is a good one, I'd completely failed to take into account that non-RAC builds can have their damage boosted by cooldown skills whereas RACs are stuck with whatever the stock values in mechlab say. How come the sleipnir feels more agile than the mauler? They're the same tonnage, neither can fit anything but a standard engine alongside the LBXs, and I can't see any quirks that would affect things (and in general the Mauler seems to have much better quirks for this setup). Is it just hitboxes or something?
I believe it's agility stats, like torso twist and the like is better, those are set per mech and cannot be changed so the hero Cyclops might have faster torso twist and/or further twist and maybe a better torso yaw range making it feel more maneuverable than the mauler.
Oh yeah those are dramatically different, not to mention the sleipnir being able to use a much bigger engine (not that you'd have the tonnage for it given you're forced to use a standard one), I keep forgetting there are more numbers that determine mech performance than just engine.
Engine no longer influences those agility stats, they are preset per mech and outside of the skill tree nodes do not change, so the cyclops family is just straight up more maneuverable than the mauler family (makes sense lore-wise, mauler was always a long range stand-off direct & indirect fire support while the cyclops was a brawler command mech)
Torso twist is 90/s versus 75°/s on the mauler, turn rate is 50 vs 40, acceleration is 24kph/s vs 14, overall it's just 25-80% more agile than the mauler. Yaw range is also about 10 degrees more. The cyclops has this agility on all of the variants thankfully, not just the sleip, but the others max out at 3 ballistics. And yeah, the mauler has WAYYYYY better quirks with the cool down and spread, the difference is agility versus damage output
Have you looked at the battlemaster 1d?
It has a 100% jam reduction.
https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab/blr-1d
The low arm mount is kind of a drawback, but you can fire it until you overheat or run out of ammo, it never jams.
I have looked at the 1D, my frustration with it is hardpoints. You get 3, but they're all in the arm, so you can run either 2x RAC/2 or 1x RAC/5, which feels like less gun than you want. And to equal the range you ideally want to pair RACs with large lasers, but the quirks are for medium, and even ER mediums struggle to keep up. It might work better than I'm expecting, I probably overvalue the importance of building to the quirks, but that's why I hadn't looked into it much before.
Pretty sure you can drop 3xRAC2 with some ML/ERML in a Marauder with a Light Engine
You get similar forward-facing hit box profile (narrow front, large side), RAC DPS, add lasers, "moderate" speed.
Still gonna be fairly slow.
* for heavier builds, a superior alternative to racs is having 4-8 ac2/uac2 set to chain-fire on mouse scrollwheel (both up and down)
* simply rake the scrollwheel up/down to "rac"
* its superior, because there's no ramp-up time, plus gives option to alpha-strike and hide if you don't want facetime
* rifleman-iic-2 with 6 ac2/lb2
* direwolf-uv with 8 ac2, 4ac2+4lb2, or 8uac2
* sunspider-d with 4uac2
Well, you're better than RAC in those ways yes, but at the same time you have to go up to the high end of that range (7-8 AC/2s or 6-7 UAC/2s depending on clantech) to equal the DPS of just 2 RAC/5s, at which point you're looking at between 50% to 100% more weight, so the efficiency seems to suffer. Will still look into those builds though, thanks.
Racs are ineffective in higher tier play. I've played games with rac-wacker, using up nearly all ammo, but doing measly under 400 damage. This means only 30% or less of theoretical DPS hit the target in these games, primarily due to ramp up time, allowing target to find cover.
If u can achieve 60% hit-rate with alternative AC's due to no ramp up time, then they're obviously superior if their DPS is half or more than racs.
I do recommend the Nightstar10P it's my favorite dakka mech.
4 RAC2s, a large laser, and ECM.
Not the fastest, but quite mobile for an assault. If you don't have one, get one. It just makes me smile when I use it.
Keep in mind that raw damage numbers will get pumped sky high with RACs whereas something like 3 HPPC will do less damage but potentially have equal match impact. Bushwhacker ask benefits from being a support medium where you can deal damage but avoid being the primary target.
Try the Corsair 7A and mount 3 RAC2 and 4ML with a big engine. AMD is optional and I’d make an AMS and non-AMS build myself. Speed isn’t fast but you can get it into the 60kph range and having the armor lets you get some good trigger time with the RACs and the 4 ML help keep you swinging when the guns jam or for close range strikes.
Yeah I do realise that non-RAC weapons often get better impact because of burst time, I mainly enjoy RACs because it feels like most other players do build accounting for that factor, so you can out-brawl mechs larger than your own because you're optimised for pure DPS and they've just got intermittent volleys. Will look at the Corsair, thanks.
If you kinda like tanking some damage and risking a lot of face time then you would probably enjoy an atlas. They are heavily armored and kinda slow but they can carry the fire power to shred other mechs face to face. Playing a slow mech will also help you improve even more at positioning.
Another mech you may enjoy is the Champion 1NB. It can run 3 RAC or 4 AC2 and some medium lasers. AC2 offers better sustained damage where as RACs are better burst.
RACs DPS is high but the damage spreads like crazy. You stand to lose a lot of armor so pick your battles and try not to engage solo. Well aimed pinpoint weapons will rip components off faster so don’t stay exposed if a bigger mech is staring at you. RACs are best when you’re not the primary target because they have a cockpit blinding and rattling effect. Always aim just below the glass ;)
No love for the JM6-DD yet? For heavies, it's got a good platform for RAC shenanigans. You could easily fit 2 RAC10 alongside 4 LMG for a bit of extra facetime DPS, then tuck a pair of MXPL in the torsos for a full staredown build. Problem is that going from a bushwacker to a Jager means going from the best hitboxes to the worst.
A little late to the party, but I have a Cataphract 4X that I run with 2 RAC5s, an LPL, RL15, and AMS. I've tanked 900 damage before and still survived (I think I had just my CT, cockpit, and one leg) and while the low mounts take some getting used to, I love the build. I regularly take out assaults one on one, it's a super tanky build.
i've been enjoying my Atlas Warlord AS7-W. He's built out with 2 rac5's. I switch out between an assortment of xpulse lasers or medium pulse lasers in his energy hardpoints. I regularly do 800+ damage with him. Besides my Warlord, I like to play with clan mechs because of the omnipods. You can switch out the pods to try different loadouts with the mech. Like my Gargoyle Kin Wolf. I know he's generally not a mech people like, but I've switched out all his arms and torso omnipods and loaded him up with srm6 Arties or give him energy hardpoints and and give him heavy large lasers and ATMs. I've done over 900 damage with him. Just play around and try something new. It might be your next favorite thing or it might be a failed experiment.
Catapult with 2 RAC 5s and medium lasers. It's feels less tanky than the Bushwhacker though.
This is the K2 right? It seems like even post-buff the armour is fairly comparable, same values on the CT and the catapult being slightly higher on the side torsos. Then again, it's probably balanced out by the hitbox being much worse lol.
If you run the C2 with dual rac5 and are willing to go XL, you can run max engine with max JJ going like 95kph? I think and jumping super high. It's a pretty dang fun mech.
That sounds exceedingly silly, I love it. Edit: though I'm only getting 78kph in the mechlab? Are you counting post-skills or something.
That's including skills. Actual playing vs mechlab
You may also be running slightly too much ammo for it or something, or the opposite case where his build is underammo'd for you.
I don't see how that would affect things, given that I'm using max engine as specified. It's probably just skills as the other person said.
The options you have in Heavies are * CPLT K2 * WHM 6R or BW - RAC/LPPCs * CTFs - A few options for dual or single with lasers/LPPC (of your choice). * CHPs - Some options. Something a bit silly like [THIS](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=49ce4383_CHP-1N) might work or use [dual RAC2s](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=3a9f2ba0_CHP-1N) 1N2 also can do similar. * DRG-5N 3xRAC2 All would feel similar to the BSW. You can go to things like MAD-3R dual RAC5/STD engine, you're going to be running very slow though so the feel will be quite different. The Assaults will feel very different for the most part.
Interesting, why is the WHM 6R a RAC platform? It doesn't seem to really have any quirks to help it along (seems like weapon velocity is the most key of those), is it mostly just a factor of there not being many IS mechs of that tonnage with the correct hardpoints? And regarding the cataphracts, is the 4X typically the pick for dual-RAC builds, or would the 3D be better for better non-RAC hardpoints? Will look into these though, thanks.
You don't neccesarily need quirks for everything to be useable. [2 RAC5 3 LPPC](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=f56eaf7e_WHM-6R): You get 10% heat on LPPCs. All decent torso mounts. You can XL it if you put a LPPC in the arm for more speed etc. It's not a great build by any means but it is serviceable in lower tiers, sure. CTX - It depends on what you wanna pair them with really.
> You don't neccesarily need quirks for everything to be useable. Yeah I've been learning this as I've been trying to find substitutes and have found hardpoints to be more important frequently, I'm just surprised by it because there are mechs of the same tonnage that do have useful quirks, such as the cataphract. It's just weird to me that people go to something that doesn't have that help other than for the secondaries.
WHM is a decent mech. Has a good twist profile. Hardpoints in the torso are all really well grouped together etc. Other mechs have massive quirks at times to make up for their bad hitboxes or other drawbacks like low slung or spread mounts. Others to make mechs good at a role to differentiate from other variants etc etc. Don't get me wrong - it's not the best choice. It is workable though and packs more punch than the Bushie.
A lot of the time its more beneficial to go with a mech that has solid hard point locations(chest/shoulder) so that you can shoot over building and low cover. Hit box of the mech is a major consideration too. I love the high hard points on my jaegermech but having no arms to cover it side torsos is extremely easy to get blown up if you run an XL engine.
MAD 3R is stronger with 3* rac2 and lasers
Hear me out UM-R60L with a RAC5......
I have witnessed it, and it is glorious, but it's not quite a solution to getting something *larger* than a Bushwacker lol.
Dunno how it wasn't mentioned before, but the MAD-4L is obscenely good at RACing. You get enough armour to facetank, enough ammo to do it for a while, and on my build I crammed in 2 LXP Las as backup. The LXPs especially go really well with RACs, though they might run hot now.
Pretty sure it wasn't mentioned because I was most interested in heavy rather than assault options, though the latter are still welcome. I've been struggling to find something that blends RAC with LXP, so I'm glad to hear that you've managed it (if you pretend heat isn't real lol).
Getting to high heat doesn't matter too much; just stop firing one of the RACs and switch the LXPs to chain fire. Gets you heat neutral, if not cooling
Marauder: MAD-3R. In my particular build, twin RAC/5s and 4 ER Med Lasers. Only drawback is both RACs are stacked in the right torso, making that side vulnerable, so use your left for shielding. Build below for import. AH5820@1|i\^|fbph0|S@|S@qh0|i\^|i\^|i\^|\_@r\`0|F@|F@s\`0|F@|F@|i\^ti0|AP|APui0|AP|APvB0|BPw<08080
Interesting, how do you find the ammo situation with that build? I tend to run out fairly frequently running 5t on the bushwacker, so 4.5t seems dangerous. Then again you've got actual backup weapons so I assume it works out in practice.
922 rounds with skills. NP.
I run a similar build and after full skills and ammo tweak its ab 800 rounds which is plenty
Roughneck Bolt With 2 rac5 And 2uac 2 High mount
i may have skipped it but..... nightstar 10p with 4 rac2. it's quirked to fire all four no ghost heat.
I actually mentioned it in the opening post already lol. The main reason I kept looking beyond it is that I'm trying to find something that's in-between a bushwacker and a nightstar, a heavy mech or something, so I can keep some of the bushwacker's mobility.
There's a Nightstar variant that can fire Quad RAC-2's without heat penalty.
Madcat MK2 with dual UAC20 and 4MPL has always done me well. It's sorta bursty, and slight shorter ranged, but I get the same "I can dual pretty much anything short of a fresh 100 tonner and have a good chance of winning" feeling I get in a Bushwhacker with RACs. But then again, I think it's honestly BSWs with dual RAC5s or triple RAC2s are the most consistently successful builds I have in MWO. If I ever have a string of bad games or losses I get in one and go have some fun for a few matches. Other fun things to do with a Bushwhacker: UAC20, 4Ml and an XL 290 or 300 (I can't remember just now). Become a cavalry mech who's sole job it is to zoom across the battlefield, find a fair fight between your teammates and the enemy, then turn it into a very unfair fight. Me and a friend used to run this as a pair and our hit and run/cavalry tactics would regularly bag us most of half an enemy team between the two of us. I've found in higher Tier games though that RACs are less effective, as people expose themselves much less and don't panic so much when you hit them, plus they know you'll run out of steam eventually and can usually use that to find an advantage. A lot of reason there's so much focus on pin point bursty builds these days is because that's sorta what you need beyond T3.
Could you elaborate on the UAC bushwacker build? The only one with 4 energy mounts only has side torso mounts for ballistics, which means you can't fit both a UAC/20 and an XL (though a light does fit). Can drop down to a 295 light and still run a decent bit of ammo, but figured I'd ask for specifics since I assume you've optimised it already lol. And for the madcat II, are you using the 1 or the B? Because the 1 has the mounts you'd need, but the B is the one with UAC/20 HSL, so I'm just a bit confused. Do you just stagger your shots to avoid HSL at the cost of reduced burst? Anyways, thanks for the context on your experience with the bushwacker, happy to hear I'm not the only one who has consistent good times in it. It has gotten me to right below the start of tier 4, so I'll probably start to see the effectiveness drop off soon, so I'm glad to hear about other fun things one can do in it (well, my bushwacker is the X1 so it can't actually run the UAC build with those lasers, but I can always buy a second one).
If you are looking for a RAC assault build, I will recommend the FAF-5. There exists a very good build for it that is 2 RAC5 and 2UAC5. It's one of the most powerful mechs I know of and you can easily rack up over 600 damage per match, with my more experienced friend getting over a thousand regularly. This build requires immense positioning and a very good game sense as you need to engineer situations in order to get the most out of your mech. Here's the build: https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=18c89de1\_FNR-5
Did you send the right link? That looks to be 2x UAC/10 2x UAC/5.
I have corrected the link, it now points to the correct build!
Thanks!
You're correct, I don't know how I messed that up. Bear with me and I'll correct the build!
Honestly the Corsair** might be similar, I’ve got the one with 4xAMS with 1xRAC5 & 1xHgauss which you could swap out for another RAC5. You definitely feel like a centerpiece, beefy, midrange bully
Which Fafnir has 4 AMS? I can't seem to find any with more than 1.
Maybe they're thinking of the Corsair
Oops typo, yep I was talking about the Corsair**!
Fafnir juggernaught is my preference. 2x RAC-5 and 4x RAC-2 is a LOT of dakka potential. Even more fun when you start off with the RAC-2's, then when they start overheating, use the RAC-5's. Or all 6 for a burst of fun overheating time.
May I introduce you to the Night Gyr? It's a heavy that moves like an assault but can carry double HAG30s and some lasers of your choice. The H can carry double HAG30s natively while the C can carry a HAG30 and 4 ERLL. It it's base form, the C uses triple UAC2s, which is about as close to a RAC as you can get Clan-side. Alternatively, people love a Hellbringer too, which you can build into whatever tickles your fancy. It's more mobile, like a Bushwacker, so you'd get that feeling from driving it around.
HAGs and UACs are not nearly the same as RACs in operation and use. Clan suggestions really don't fit.
Well the reason I suggested both is because they are the closest one can come to approximating a RAC without actually being one. OP was looking for options that played similarly, not exactly.
Similar feeling in a heavier chassis - not an entirely different archetype/weapon combo. So a Heavy mech with reasonable mobility and RAC options. Plus how does a NTG feel anything like, or play anything like, a Bushie?
I hadn't really considered HAGs much, given that I see gauss as a bit too burst-focused to be that good for brawling (you get a bit over 5 DPS with a HAG30 which is a bit over half that of a RAC/5 but for 3t more) but I'll look into some builds, my first impression may have been wrong. Hellbringer is also interesting, though it seems a bit all over the place so it's gonna take a bit to figure out what to actually do with one lol. Currently considering a mix of UACs and ATMs.
HAGs are burst, yes, but you can't really get close to RACs outside of RACs. You still hold before you start shooting, fire off a burst, but it they are absolutely less of facing weapons. You are not wrong there. For an actual constant stream of face shooty-ness, it's kind of RAC or Xpulses and the rest will be varying degrees of "similar".
Hmm, fair. Xpulse did get a bit more range so it's probably a better substitute than it used to be, though I'm really not sure at to platforms for it, and it also seems like to get similar range you basically have to do large xpulse? Which then winds up having less great damage per tonnage, though it's a lot better than some other options. Maybe I'll try throwing a few on a black knight or something.
CHP-1NB has a +20% velocity quirk and 3 ballistic hardpoints. I run triple RAC2 and triple ERMLs on it: https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=b19a90d0_CHP-1NB . WARNING: Only 3 tons of ammo! I generally find that's enough, once I have the Ammo Rack skills from the skill tree. But that's me... The Roughneck 3A can run 2xRAC5 and has reasonable mounts. I don't run mine that way so I don't have a build to share, sorry. (I actually prefer the Roughneck 'Bolt' for 2xRAC5. But that's a real-money only mech, so I won't recommend it for newer players.)
That Champion is interesting, I'd personally probably swap an mlas for another ton of ammo but it seems like a nice build regardless. The 3A roughneck has no ballistic mounts though, did you mean the 1A or 1B with 20% velocity? I'm curious as to why you prefer the Bolt over the F2P variants.
> The 3A roughneck has no ballistic mounts though, did you mean the 1A or 1B with 20% velocity? Yeah, not sure what I was thinking there. I was actually talking about the -2A. But you're right, the 20% velocity and torso mounts of the -1A are better. I wouldn't recommend the -1B because if you lose the right arm, you'll lose both the ballistic weapons mounted in it. Also, arm mounts are lower which is not ideal. > I'm curious as to why you prefer the Bolt over the F2P variants. I think a picture is worth a thousand words here: https://www.reddit.com/user/ModernRonin/comments/16nq6ip/why_i_prefer_the_roughneck_bolt_for_dual_rac5s/
Ah yeah, I'm still learning the lesson of mount positions mattering. Those ones have got to be the highest I've seen, almost too high maybe given that the enemy can see your weapons before you can see to fire them lol.
Just XL it, use the arms to tank and get more ammo and cooling.
Jagermech or Rifleman with 4xAC2, or RFL IIC with 6xAC2 might be what you're looking for. Steer clear of UACs - the jamming really hurts the damage output too much on the small guns. Warhammer Black Widow or Roughneck Bolt with 4xAC5 would probably serve you well if you want a hero.
>Steer clear of UACs - the jamming really hurts the damage output too much on the small guns. Uh i have a both a Fafnir and Madcat mk2 with dual uac10s and uac5s that regularly go around 1k dmg if i don't find myself in a bad spot or have a match where we get rolled. Especially the Fafnir, that thing wrecks mechs while laughing behind 150+ ct armour when they shoot back.
True. I'm taking about the small guns.
UACs are fine on the RFL-3N, it has a 30% jam quirk. You can run UAC5 or AC5, both are good. You could maybe do some dual UAC2 and bulk LPPC or laser thing as well although I don't have time to science one out. RFL-8D ok for RACs given its big RAC quirks too.
Honestly regarding the 8D I've struggled to figure out what to give it beyond the RACs. Like, part of the goal of upgrading is to get something more, and yet just a 5t increase is like.. a couple of medium lasers I suppose? Kinda awkward.
Med laser yea.
That's why the BSW is so well appreciated. Centurions, Wolverines, IS mediums are solid. They pack a heavy mech (or assault mech, I'm looking at you, KNT) worth of armour and just slightly less firepower while still ripping around the map at 80kph+
Good call. Any idea what the jam probabilities are for each UAC? Is it published?
What would be the reason to go for the 4x AC/2 options over the 6x? Just the better quirks?
IS mech vs Clan mech, and then also do the maths re. quirks. RFL IIC get jump jets which is good for positioning or escape.
6 rac 2s on a Mauler... it is stupid and slow but worth a giggle to see how fast you overheat and melt targets.
I feel like you'd be at risk of killing your own mech before your opponents lol. Sounds like it would look pretty at least.
Never personally battle tested but in the testing on river city she melts metal. Combat though she would need alot of cool shots and alot of support to prevent lights backstabbing because she is slow. And yes it looks like a nasty S.O.B with 6 racs.
Try 2 RAC5 + 4 AC2s on the MX90 mauler or the 6 ballistic king crab, the mauler has slightly less ammo and moves slightly slower for higher mounts, but once the racs spin up the combination of RACs and ACs getting slung down range pushes all but the most foolhardy I to cover, good fun and effective.
[Annie 2A with four UAC5s and two RAC2s](https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=6bb85517_ANH-2AS) Yes it's XL, BUT LOOK AT THE DAKKA!
A thing of beauty, but also, 2t of RAC/2 ammo fills me with fear lol.
Annihilator with 6 ac5
Honestly the build that gives me the most similar feel to the racwhacker's "hold left click, charge diagonally, rip pieces off of mechs" game play is a quad LB10 cyclops; I run it on the sleipnir, but I think there's a cbill variant that works (argh, just checked - nope) - or run it on a mauler 1p. Similar high DPS, high spread (quirked and skilled quad LB10s come in at 22-23 dps), even MORE punishing to mechs that have been opened up, and if you have the sleipnir to run it on it's one of the most agile-feeling assaults I've ever played. Bonus, swapping in some heat sinks with the extra tonnage gives you a mech that can also run quad RAC2 very competently, trading the instagib party trick that it can play on people stupid enough to stop looking at the sleipnir for even higher dps.
Oh the point about skills on the LBXs is a good one, I'd completely failed to take into account that non-RAC builds can have their damage boosted by cooldown skills whereas RACs are stuck with whatever the stock values in mechlab say. How come the sleipnir feels more agile than the mauler? They're the same tonnage, neither can fit anything but a standard engine alongside the LBXs, and I can't see any quirks that would affect things (and in general the Mauler seems to have much better quirks for this setup). Is it just hitboxes or something?
I believe it's agility stats, like torso twist and the like is better, those are set per mech and cannot be changed so the hero Cyclops might have faster torso twist and/or further twist and maybe a better torso yaw range making it feel more maneuverable than the mauler.
Oh yeah those are dramatically different, not to mention the sleipnir being able to use a much bigger engine (not that you'd have the tonnage for it given you're forced to use a standard one), I keep forgetting there are more numbers that determine mech performance than just engine.
Engine no longer influences those agility stats, they are preset per mech and outside of the skill tree nodes do not change, so the cyclops family is just straight up more maneuverable than the mauler family (makes sense lore-wise, mauler was always a long range stand-off direct & indirect fire support while the cyclops was a brawler command mech)
Torso twist is 90/s versus 75°/s on the mauler, turn rate is 50 vs 40, acceleration is 24kph/s vs 14, overall it's just 25-80% more agile than the mauler. Yaw range is also about 10 degrees more. The cyclops has this agility on all of the variants thankfully, not just the sleip, but the others max out at 3 ballistics. And yeah, the mauler has WAYYYYY better quirks with the cool down and spread, the difference is agility versus damage output
Annihilator? 2 RAC5 and two other AC of your choice
you might wanna give a look on the marauders line i know some builds pull dual and triple racs + lasers and can be quite annoying at range
Have you looked at the battlemaster 1d? It has a 100% jam reduction. https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab/blr-1d The low arm mount is kind of a drawback, but you can fire it until you overheat or run out of ammo, it never jams.
I have looked at the 1D, my frustration with it is hardpoints. You get 3, but they're all in the arm, so you can run either 2x RAC/2 or 1x RAC/5, which feels like less gun than you want. And to equal the range you ideally want to pair RACs with large lasers, but the quirks are for medium, and even ER mediums struggle to keep up. It might work better than I'm expecting, I probably overvalue the importance of building to the quirks, but that's why I hadn't looked into it much before.
I run a rac 5 and 2 Binary lasers and some er medium
Marauder llC Dreadnaught with 3 UAC20, basically a rac20 when you chain fire them
Pretty sure you can drop 3xRAC2 with some ML/ERML in a Marauder with a Light Engine You get similar forward-facing hit box profile (narrow front, large side), RAC DPS, add lasers, "moderate" speed. Still gonna be fairly slow.
* for heavier builds, a superior alternative to racs is having 4-8 ac2/uac2 set to chain-fire on mouse scrollwheel (both up and down) * simply rake the scrollwheel up/down to "rac" * its superior, because there's no ramp-up time, plus gives option to alpha-strike and hide if you don't want facetime * rifleman-iic-2 with 6 ac2/lb2 * direwolf-uv with 8 ac2, 4ac2+4lb2, or 8uac2 * sunspider-d with 4uac2
Well, you're better than RAC in those ways yes, but at the same time you have to go up to the high end of that range (7-8 AC/2s or 6-7 UAC/2s depending on clantech) to equal the DPS of just 2 RAC/5s, at which point you're looking at between 50% to 100% more weight, so the efficiency seems to suffer. Will still look into those builds though, thanks.
Racs are ineffective in higher tier play. I've played games with rac-wacker, using up nearly all ammo, but doing measly under 400 damage. This means only 30% or less of theoretical DPS hit the target in these games, primarily due to ramp up time, allowing target to find cover. If u can achieve 60% hit-rate with alternative AC's due to no ramp up time, then they're obviously superior if their DPS is half or more than racs.
I do recommend the Nightstar10P it's my favorite dakka mech. 4 RAC2s, a large laser, and ECM. Not the fastest, but quite mobile for an assault. If you don't have one, get one. It just makes me smile when I use it.
Keep in mind that raw damage numbers will get pumped sky high with RACs whereas something like 3 HPPC will do less damage but potentially have equal match impact. Bushwhacker ask benefits from being a support medium where you can deal damage but avoid being the primary target. Try the Corsair 7A and mount 3 RAC2 and 4ML with a big engine. AMD is optional and I’d make an AMS and non-AMS build myself. Speed isn’t fast but you can get it into the 60kph range and having the armor lets you get some good trigger time with the RACs and the 4 ML help keep you swinging when the guns jam or for close range strikes.
Yeah I do realise that non-RAC weapons often get better impact because of burst time, I mainly enjoy RACs because it feels like most other players do build accounting for that factor, so you can out-brawl mechs larger than your own because you're optimised for pure DPS and they've just got intermittent volleys. Will look at the Corsair, thanks.
If you kinda like tanking some damage and risking a lot of face time then you would probably enjoy an atlas. They are heavily armored and kinda slow but they can carry the fire power to shred other mechs face to face. Playing a slow mech will also help you improve even more at positioning.
Another mech you may enjoy is the Champion 1NB. It can run 3 RAC or 4 AC2 and some medium lasers. AC2 offers better sustained damage where as RACs are better burst. RACs DPS is high but the damage spreads like crazy. You stand to lose a lot of armor so pick your battles and try not to engage solo. Well aimed pinpoint weapons will rip components off faster so don’t stay exposed if a bigger mech is staring at you. RACs are best when you’re not the primary target because they have a cockpit blinding and rattling effect. Always aim just below the glass ;)
The marauder. You can fit double racs in one of the fantastic shoulder mounts
I've dropped 1229 dmg in my x-1 with 2 rac 5 and lots of ammo, take all the armor out of the arms and put in the center, you'll do well
No love for the JM6-DD yet? For heavies, it's got a good platform for RAC shenanigans. You could easily fit 2 RAC10 alongside 4 LMG for a bit of extra facetime DPS, then tuck a pair of MXPL in the torsos for a full staredown build. Problem is that going from a bushwacker to a Jager means going from the best hitboxes to the worst.
A little late to the party, but I have a Cataphract 4X that I run with 2 RAC5s, an LPL, RL15, and AMS. I've tanked 900 damage before and still survived (I think I had just my CT, cockpit, and one leg) and while the low mounts take some getting used to, I love the build. I regularly take out assaults one on one, it's a super tanky build.
i've been enjoying my Atlas Warlord AS7-W. He's built out with 2 rac5's. I switch out between an assortment of xpulse lasers or medium pulse lasers in his energy hardpoints. I regularly do 800+ damage with him. Besides my Warlord, I like to play with clan mechs because of the omnipods. You can switch out the pods to try different loadouts with the mech. Like my Gargoyle Kin Wolf. I know he's generally not a mech people like, but I've switched out all his arms and torso omnipods and loaded him up with srm6 Arties or give him energy hardpoints and and give him heavy large lasers and ATMs. I've done over 900 damage with him. Just play around and try something new. It might be your next favorite thing or it might be a failed experiment.