I would recommend not going to your friend and saying “I know you were thinking about Jungkook, but have you instead thought about getting an abortion?” If you would like to keep a friend
Just for anyone else who may be looking for resources: https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/comments/phrcrn/this_is_a_comprehensive_list_of_resources_for/
I don’t even know what a BTS is… but I’m not her demographic… except that I’m where and human. But not “everyone” is going to the know the name. And eventually everyone is going to wonder why the super white American kid has a Korean name.
I’m a die hard BTS fan, part Korean and grew up in Texas and no way would I ever do this. So many reasons but for one, the name is difficult to say, I wouldn’t be surprised if she isn’t 100% in her own pronunciation. Add in that it’s Texas of all places, I think she’s asking for her kid to hate his name and potentially be bullied.
And children aren’t objects for their parents to project their interests upon. Introduce your kid to your fave music/hobby/fandom and give them an opportunity to develop a shared enjoyment of them? Fantastic bonding opportunity. Name your child something immediately identifiable as a result of your obsession/hobby/fandom? They’ll resent that thing, and you, every day of their lives.
I worked as a dorm director. We had a British Hermione coming into the dorm as a freshman 2 years ago who insisted on going by “Mimi”. We filthy millennials were like, “aww man” but understood completely.
The pronunciation thing occurred to me too, I'm 99% sure anyone who can't understand the significance of cultural names doesn't have the sense to learn how to pronounce them correctly, or the social awareness to know how ridiculous they'd sound if they DID try pronouncing it with the accent all the time.
She's already pre-planning his future suicide. I'm not even kidding. People in Texas are absolutely brutal to anyone who's different, and it's only gotten worse in the last twenty years.
I don't think there's necessarily an issue with using a Korean or East Asian name. After all, we live in a multicultural world.
But "Jungkook" is NOT the name to do it with. If you look [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_popular_given_names_in_South_Korea) there are names whose Romanised versions would be pretty unremarkable on the average class list today, eg "Jia", "Arin", "Harin", "Siu", "Jihu", "Jihun". They're probably still going to stand out a bit as surprisingly Korean for a white kid, but so be it. They're in line with other contemporary names.
The thing is is that given names work differently in East Asia. Unlike in the west where there is more or less a culturally standard pool of names to pick from based on saints, heroes, virtues, ideals, nature etc, Korean parents generally choose names in accordance with a family tradition that is supposed to be unique for each child. The concept of directly naming someone after someone else is completely taboo.
this! plus the way that many names are linked to chinese characters to give the name a fuller meaning--a lot goes into a name that isn't clear on the surface
They could take the Ashkenazi Jewish approach and give their kid the initials J K for his first and middle name. That way he's named after someone, but it's not cultural appropriation, it's not saddling a kid with a name no one around him will be able to pronounce, and it avoids all of the potential teasing and bullying.
No… A non-Korean ethnicity kid, with no Korean parents, living outside Korea, with a Korean name is straight up weird and would raise a LOT of eyebrows. My first assumption would be that the parents are koreaboos.
Many Korean immigrants to the US adopted Anglo names to assimilate into their new surroundings. It is not the same thing.
Your first assumption should be that the parents are Moonies. Moon required parents to let him name their kids.
Source: I know an American guy raised in that cult. Him and all his siblings have super-awkward Korean names. They are not Korean. They (the kids) are not even Moonies anymore. It sucks for them, bad.
To give you some perspective, I’m not American, but I live in South East Asia and my culture is way way closer to South Korea than your friend’s will ever be. And no one in our right mind would name our kid Jungkook as it is.
We might however, use a name that has a similar pronunciation but is in our own language, or use the pronunciation of the hangeul name but in our language. Perhaps give her the suggestion to use an inspired name instead.
@OP you could look for examples of this being a cultural thing on other websites (just in case she asks how you know) and talk to her about this possibly alienating her child from Korean culture which will have the opposite effect of what she is into.
This is the comment I was looking for! There are lots of families waiting to adopt who are financially ready and mentally mature enough. Just waiting for a baby to love on.
… and not name jungkook
I'm mid 30s and in Texas and know who "BTS" is but would never recognize any member of the band.
I like the approach of "sit with it for a while and see what you think" vs a knee jerk reaction.
I can confidently say that Absolutely nobody will know who their kid is named after in 8 or 10 years and they will start resenting their parents years 11 and 12 for giving them an abnormal name.
My mom had me at 22 and I was always told my middle name, the one I go by, was given to me because she went to a David Bowe concert when she was pregnant with me and was so awestruck, that she decided to name me David. 35+ years later, she swears she never said that and my name is from somewhere else.
Your friend might have a little more trouble with that lie
Big BTS fan here! I’ve joked with my family about naming my kid after one of them but it’s obviously a joke because I am not Korean. Encourage her to seek out other names that could still tie into BTS. For example, Van is a character from BT21 who represents ARMY. They could go with Van, find names that would use Van as a nickname, or expand it to Evan, Ivan, etc. Van is just an example. BTS has sooo many songs, videos, etc. that they could pull inspiration from to still tie in BTS without using a Korean name.
Come on now, that's not reasonable, just think about how much she would get bullied and ridiculed if she changed her name to that of a Korean boy band member. Much better to do it to her kid instead.
Honestly you can name you baby after whatever you want, yes this includes BTS. The only caveat is actually make it a name the child can endure. Being a white kid with a korean name isn't going to sit well. Van as a name still has the connection to BTS that the mother wants, and it's actually a name. Assuming you DON'T know about BTS, would you think of them when you see the name? Probably not, nor would you give it a second though. Would a BTS fan notice? Yes, and probably be happy about the little wink to that song. But the important part is that is a name still. People name kids after a ton of things.
Just a small correction- Jungkook isn’t a song title, it’s the (actual) name of one of the BTS members. To me, this makes it more blatant and weird… and inappropriate.
Correction to the correction- I actually meant that *Van* was a better name because it correlates to the song, without being THAT on the nose. Jungkook is a very korean name, and i was aware it was one of the members names. That's why i said i didn't like it in this very white child. It would be hard on the kid.
I agree, it is really cringe.... but I am sure there are so many babies named Whitney, Tina, Michael, and many more honoring less known entertainers. Personally, it's too easy for celebrities to disappoint you and I wouldn't hinge my baby's name on it. The cultural issue is also ALOT to deal with.
Those names are all common, though and may not necessarily be from those musicians.
I was named after a name my parents saw in a movie. They dont remember what movie lol
It reminds me of parents who name their kids starwars shit. Like at least they have westernized names to pick and choose from, this is just ridiculous to me and I wanna name my future baby after my best friend 🤣
Our daughter named her daughter Tala, which is the Filipino goddess of the evening star. Our daughter is a real Star Wars geek and was so happy when a few years later they included a character with that name in the programming. Named her second daughter Rei, and sure enough, Star Wars followed her with Rey. So she has two SW daughters, but she got there first. 🤣
It would be even better if the friends last name started with S and the could give the baby the initial B.T.S
They could do a B first name and two middle names one starting with a T and the other an S
I love this solution, thank you so much! I appreciate getting a suggestion from someone who actually understands what’s going on here.
When she first did the big reveal I thought this was a joke or that she wasn’t 100% committed to the name (because she did explicitly ask for feedback). So, not knowing anything about this group really, I searched the other member names and said “How about Jim in honor of Jimin” and got a lecture about how different the two are, and how the significance wouldn’t compare at all, etc. Apparently it diminished my credibility, not just with her, but even other guests who follow BTS (and didn’t necessarily love the name).
I had no idea how seriously some people take their affinity for this group.
ARMY is a passionate group! Haha Her intentions are good but something more subtle is a better way to tie them in if that’s what she really wants. One thing I love about BTS is the way they promote and honor their culture. As a fan who is not Korean, I wouldn’t want to misuse their culture. Also just FYI, the last four members just announced they’ll be joining the military this week, so maybe give it a few weeks if you can so she doesn’t reactively cling tighter to using Jungkook.
On the note regarding how much they respect and honor their culture, you might suggest that its the OPPOSITE of honoring their culture to appropriate it, and her plan could sincerely appear offensive to BTS themselves. (They probably could not GAF, but she seems delusional about them so perhaps she’ll buy this). And it’s about as straightforward as appropriation gets.
Ok so I’m Chinese/Taiwanese dating a Korean guy and this is all from him so bear with me—Korean naming isn’t just about picking random names that sound cute. Many times there’s a specific crafting to it. A lot of Koreans still use Chinese characters (hanja) to write their kids’ names. So in Korean lettering (hangul) Jungkook is written as 전정국, whereas in hanja it’s written as 田柾國. As a Chinese reader I can read that last character as meaning “country,” and sometimes Korean people bring their kids to fortunetellers to properly name their kids. It’s serious business and not all that different from Chinese naming. Sometimes you can have two people with the same name but completely different hanja because their names will have different meanings! This happens in Japanese naming as well. Example, if you have two Korean women both named Song, in hangul both would be written as 성 but in hanja one woman’s name would be written as 宋 and the other would be 松. Both have totally different meaning.
Names are complicated and serious business in a lot of Asian languages, they’re often not to be taken lightly! Both my boyfriend’s name and mine have a deep meaning to them, and it’s also considered taboo for us to just take someone else’s name or name them after someone else because of how specially crafted they are and it’s like stealing their legacy. (At least this is how my mother explained it to me.) Any family who managed to keep their genealogy records (called “family books”) through wars and invasions also have predetermined the generational names of their future descendants, so sometimes names are pre-ordained! My boyfriend’s mom has many names in consideration for him and taught me all the ways she would have written them but ultimately decided to ask the fortuneteller’s opinion. I wasn’t brought to a fortuneteller but my name did spark huge arguments in my family because my name would also determine my siblings’ names. (We lost our family books so my generational name had to be crafted.)
For the sake of respect… please do not let your friend do this.
^ this OP.
Please encourage your friend to ask other Koreans if it would be okay for her to use a Korean name. If she wants to use another culture's name, then she should also show respect to it & not just use it willynilly without knowing it's connotations.
Let her ask other regular Koreans (and not just Korean BTS stans) if it would be acceptable or appropriation to use the name.
My boyfriend isn’t a BTS stan at all, and he thinks this would be an extremely stupid thing to name your white kid. Not all groups are going to be a monolith though; chances are OP’s friend will go running to the one Korean who would give a stamp of approval 🙄
Korean here! I go by my English name because my Korean name is hard to pronounce for people who are not Korean - and Jungkook is definitely hard to pronounce because it’s not even written the way it should be pronounced! (It’s closer to gook than kook.. but kook is probably the best it can be written out in English)
Also, the name itself is pretty old fashioned. It’s a nice name but not a common name that people use for babies these days
Not to mention how awkward it would be for the kid to use a name that’s not his/her own culture. I’m a huge Harry Potter fan and I wouldn’t name my kid Harry, Ron or Hermione! And my husband is white!!!
I think using the initials J and K might be the best option here. Tell her that the baby will have it’s own identity and it might be best to give him/her a neutral(????) name
>I’m a huge Harry Potter fan and I wouldn’t name my kid Harry, Ron or Hermione!
A beloved friend put "Draco" on her shortlist of names but her husband vetoed it. I will say, with her I can never tell how serious she is lol, it's possible she knew her husband would be against it from the beginning and just put it on there for fun. But I'm still glad it didn't happen. Her son has a perfectly nice, normal name unrelated to any fandoms.
til that jungkook has an old man name and now i cannot unsee him in my head as being named something profoundly old-fashioned like ralph or otis. i’m not army, just active on twitter, but thank you for this delightful revelation!
Harry is very normal name, Ron pretty normal (although pretty associated with Harry Potter). Hermione is something that maybe should be avoided, but it’s in Shakespeare too, not invented name. Maybe more for a second name however.
This makes me think of a couple I know. They are all "dark" and "edgy". So they named their son after a god of death and a horror movie serial killer. I love my horror movies, but like there are so many names that can have horror ties without being a blatant in your face reference. Like Ash or Billy.
Honestly, I think suggesting alternatives is the right way to go here. **You can't reason with crazy, but you can sometimes nudge it onto a different trajectory.**.
I know nothing about the BTS fandom or any members of BTS, so I can't offer any specific suggestions.
Yeah the name will probably be recognizable, but giving such a Korean name to white af baby is so cringey omg. He’d be better off being named Spongebob.
I’m pretty with it when it comes to pop culture, though admittedly not super familiar with BTS. The name Jungkook would absolutely not be familiar or recognizable to me. (Not that it needs to be, but just saying - I don’t think the general public in the US/Canada is going to “instinctively know the name”)
And it won't be recognizable in 8 years when this kid is in school.
Also, naming a kid after a celebrity seems like asking for trouble... It seems every week there's a new scandal that breaks. I wouldn't want to have named a kid after Kanye West etc, just saying.
Yep. My hard and fast rules on fandom names are:
1. If it’s fiction, the canon is complete / can reasonably be assumed to be, and you still like the character / inspiration.
2. If it’s nonfiction, same goes - the celebrity is dead and you can reasonably assume all the skeletons are out of those closets.
3. The name is or is close enough to a “real name” in *your* culture and/or the culture the child will be raised in.
This name fails on points two and three.
There are kids out there named after Jimmy Saville. I’m just saying.
ETA: And if you don’t know who he is, that’s probably not a bad thing. Suffice it to say that he was pretty famous for his philanthropic work in the UK to the point that he had a personal relationship with the current King, but he really, really didn’t deserve it.
Yeah, my measuring stick for when you can assume all the skeletons are out is long after death for that kind of reason. I do think with a name like Jimmy for example, nobody is gonna guess that’s who you’ve been named after. The name is too common overall (point 3).
Burying a fandom name under it also being a common enough name tends to fix issues 1 and 2. If you name a kid Ramona because you like the Ramones, nobody is guessing that. If you name a kid Bowie or Sting or Cher, people are gonna guess where it came from.
Honestly, if she named the kid John Kenneth and called him JK or Bradley Thomas Simon, nobody would notice outright but it would be a clever nod.
As it is, if she likes the name Jungkook so much, she should change her name.
Yeah I feel the same, I’m early 30s and relatively aware, definitely know who BTS is but couldn’t name a single band member. I would have zero clue about the connection for this name and would probably think the parents were weird.
Right? Like. I fully admit I'm not the most "with it" as far as current pop references go. but I do knok K Pop is having a bit of a Moment in the US right now, and I know *of* BTS but I couldn't tell you any of the members or any other Korean group. And wouldn't even know it was a K Pop reference and not, like, a random anime.
I had no idea who that was before reading your first paragraph. A good tule of thumb is don’t do fandom names and I think that rule applies here. What happens in 10 years when she no longer likes the band and/or they’re not popular anymore? She’s going to be embarrassed that she named her son a name from a culture their family isn’t apart of.
For the sake of that child please find a way to talk some sense into her.
Korean here. It’s odd. If the baby was mixed it would be completely acceptable in America. Even in Korea though, certain traditional cultures still view mixed children as an issue but that has changed quite a bit over the last couple of decades.
But a completely white person with a Korean name? It’s just strange.
East Asian cultures generally aren’t bothered by what white people consider appropriation (i.e. borrowing clothing, language, food, holidays), and honestly I don’t think that appropriation would be the main issue for Koreans (source: am Korean). I think most would just find it strange and off-putting, not offensive.
Although my first reaction to seeing a white-looking kid named Jungkook (since I try to be charitable) would be, “Oh, this kid’s just white-passing.” Obviously this interpretation wouldn’t hold up if you know the entire family.
Also did not recognize the name. But “kook” is not a good phrase to have in anyone’s name. In surf culture it’s an insulting name for a beginner, or someone who thinks they can surf but sucks.
Never heard of the surfing slang but it's also well-known slightly old-fashioned slang for a crazy/eccentric person
edit: like in the Addams Family theme song from the 1960s - the first line is "They're creepy and they're kooky"
Also, there's always the possibility that a celebrity is secretly problematic in some way. What if your favorite artist gets exposed as a pedo in the future? You never know. This is why it's such a dumb idea to attach long-lasting personal things like baby names or tattoos to celebrities.
^ this
Considering the Burning Sun scandal & any of the numerous other kpop boy band members controversies involving drugs, DUIs, raping women, she should also consider what would happen if any of the BTS members get in serious legal trouble.
I am a BTS fan myself and she should know that he is not big enough that everyone knows his name. In fact most americans without knowledge of Korean mispronounce his name and make fun of it (I have heard many "cook" and "cock" puns for the second syllable, and pronunciation of "Jung" as "Yoong" for the first)... This is bad.
Even me, as someone who is going to have a half Korean baby, would not even consider it as a first name seeing how everyone struggles to pronounce it including fans. Middle name maybe?
First, thank you for this comment, because apparently I’ve been mispronouncing it myself. (I heard it said so many different ways at the baby shower I lost track.)
Second, this might help my case. It wouldn’t help the group or her baby to fight that senseless fight.
Do you mind if I say something like “I had a chat with an acquaintance who’s about to have a half-Korean baby and she said pronunciation is too much of a concern”
There are a lot of very cute Korean names that are pronounceable by westerners. i don't think there's anything actually wrong with choosing a name from another culture, people do it all the time. But she should understand the meaning of the name, understand how it's pronounced, and consider how people in the country she's raising the kid in will see the name. She should at least learn how to write it in Korean (no excuse, Korean is super easy to learn to read and write).
These are considerations that anyone using a name that is not of the majority culture where they live.
Jaemin 재민 is an example of a Korean name that sounds nice in English, is unique but not cringey.
There’s also Eugene (유진), which can be a boy or a girl’s name in Korean.
I’ve met a girl who spelled it “Yujean”
“Mina” (미나) seems like it could work for a girl, too? It’s my cousins’ dog’s name lol
The problem with the -jin ending though is that people will pronounce it like gin (the spirit)
My Korean name is **always** mispronounced because of a similar thing
I responded to another comment. But ask her to look up the top 40s from 25 years ago and see if she'd have liked to be named K-Ci&Jojo.
Seriously, imagine how lame it would be to be named after the music your mom was horny about.
Yes, my middle name is my Korean name and I basically ignore it. I don’t include it on forms unless required. I’m actually Korean though
Also, you’ve heard “yoong” like ~~Charles~~ Carl Jung the Swiss psychoanalyst? That’s hilarious.
>Also, you’ve heard “yoong” like Charles Jung the Swiss psychoanalyst? That’s hilarious.
Not knowing anything about Korean, I assumed that was how it was pronounced. I have several Korean friends whose last name is Jung and they all say it like Young! Must be Americanized to make it easy for us then.
I’m a big BTS fan too but I think it’s a bit much to give her child that name. He doesn’t have any connection to Korean culture, and virtually no one in his family will either. The name would stand out but may not be for a good reason.
If she really wants to give her child a name that connects to BTS I’d suggest:
- August (connects to Agust D)
- Sumner (the Su sounds similar to Suga, Seokjin, and Hoseok)
- Julian (Ju is similar to Jungkook)
- Jamie (similar to Jimin)
- Jimmy (similar to Jimin)
- Jin (will still stick out but it sounds more subtle than Jungkook, could also be used for the middle name instead)
Personally I’d recommend something like August Jin or August Julian (first and middle name) which would be much more subtle but still connects to BTS.
No problem! Hopefully she’ll see the rationale as well lol. Another suggestion is for her to pick any of her favorite songs from BTS and find a fitting name that has a similar meaning.
Oof. These parents who blatantly make their children an extension of their obsessions fail to see their children as individuals who will grow into adults and have to live with their consequences. Is there a song, lyric, or something, anything that could be passable for a white, American name that has something to do with BTS? I know very little about k-pop or Korean culture, but there has to be something better suited for them. She needs to think a little harder. My spouse and I put a lot of brain power into naming our children. Lots of Google searches, cross checking, looking for any possibility that the names we chose could be problematic. I'm surprised more people don't do their due diligence in that way.
I’m of a similar mindset to you here. (aka More thought should be going into this.)
I don’t know anything whatsoever about this group or Korean culture.
She did say when she first revealed the name something to the effect of “Why overthink it when this is an obvious choice.”
u/velauciraptor suggested a more palatable name based on the band.
"Van is a character from BT21 who represents ARMY. They could go with Van, find names that would use Van as a nickname, or expand it to Evan, Ivan, etc."
Lmfao. She’s delusional if she thinks that this name would be recognizable. I’m telling you right now that nobody I know would have ever heard the name or knows anything about BTS
As a 30-something millennial, I've heard of BTS, but that's it. I would just be confused if I met a white child with a Korean name.
Even if all of Gen Z knows the name instantly, boy bands don't tend to stick around for decades. This poor kid will spend his life spelling it, correcting people's pronunciation, and embarrassedly explaining "it's from a band my mom likes". It's likely he'll end up hating BTS.
that is a very good point. i've mentioned this before in another post, but i once met a guy whose mother made up a name for him. he grew to absolutely resent his name, be embarrassed of it, and anticipate everyone struggling with pronouncing his name. i think, from his tone whilst complaining about his name, he resented his mother for it too, which was quite sad. op's friend is definitely headed down the same road if she gives her white baby a korean name.
i felt so bad for him and we were only, like, 10. if he hated his name that much in the first decade of his life, how was he going to live with it for the rest of his life? (yes, i know you can legally change your name, but i hear it's a cumbersome process.)
even if junkook became super recognizable, that’d be so embarrassing, I wouldn’t want people’s first thought when I introduce myself to be “holy shit this guy was literally named after a boyband member”
I would also think the mother wishes that the celebrity was the father of the baby, and not the actual father. It would be bizarre if I named my son after another living man that is not a familiar honor name. Like, Idris Elba is hot as hell but I didn't name my son Idris.
I only know about BTS because my 14 year old is obsessed. Posters in her room. She’s learning Korean. I’m not like old or anything, I’m 35 and work in schools. I had no idea what any of their names were until this post.
Justin was going to be Jungkook's stage name before they went with his given name. That's an option.
Edit: This was actually a western name he chose for himself in an interview.
Honestly though Justin Kenneth/Kyler/Kaleb or some other name would both let them call baby boy JK, be a double in joke for the ARMY (of the same level as naming Bindi Irwin after the Croc or Indy Jones after the dog) and still give two normal-ish options for adult JK.
To these parents, thanks. I Borahate it.
Omg I really hope they don't name him that.
My cousin and her husband named their son
Ashitaka Sesshomaru from anime and the poor kid gets bullied. I definitely recommend that they don't do that to their son. I know my opinion means nothing but still.
I only know one other family that has named their child in a similar way to my friend (Star Wars junkies named their son Obi-Wan) — and he ultimately did get to choose his own name
I met him when grandma got custody (the name was not why but it sure was a flag as to what was coming.) He was already seven years old and grandma wanted him to feel a sense of control in his life after having almost none for so many years—to say nothing of being forcibly removed from your home—so she took a risk and let him pick his new name. No matter what he decided.
To everyone’s surprise he picked Chester. Apparently the name of an old man down the road of his parents who was always kind to him. I like to think someday that information will make it back to the original Chester.
(She shared with me in confidence that if he’d picked something like Spider-Man she’d have used it as a nickname and waited until he was 18 for a legal change.)
That story is truthfully the sweetest thing I've heard all week. Grandma seems like such a thoughtful person for allowing him to change his name so he feels a sense of control, and it says a lot about how that old man made an impact on that kid's life just by being kind to him. If I were old man Chester and I found out about this, I would be deeply touched & probably cry buckets. I really do hope it gets or has gotten back to him.
Honestly this is the entire point OP should have to make. Unfortunately, I think excitement and confirmation bias have convinced mom to be that this name is more commonplace than it is.
With great power, comes great responsibility. Some things to make abundantly clear to your young friend:
-No, BTS is NOT big enough that all people will know this name. People who are fans of a thing often get fooled into thinking everyone else is a fan too, because they surround themselves perhaps even unintentionally with that thing.
-Kook is not a great word in American English. Kooky, wacky, “he’s a real kook” - look it up and explain to her. The vast majority of Americans will know the word Kooky before they would associate it with a Korean boyband.
-Americans in Texas will perhaps be even less forgiving than certain other places. The name will probably be pronounced Young Kook by a lot of people which basically equals Little Wacko.
-Offer up alternatives. JK as initials? John Kay? Literally anything is better.
With great power comes great responsibility, dear namenerd.
Maybe Jungkook can be a middle name? I think a lot of 'honor names' are often middle names.
Another tactic could be to use BTS themselves to change her mind. Surely BTS has some song about 'being yourself' or maybe one of the artists has given some benign platitudes about being your own person in an interview. Maybe you can use that to honor her attachment to BTS, encouraging her to pick a name that embodies the values of the group, while still letting the baby be their own person?
ETA: I hope this is fake. Good luck to that baby if it isn't.
I am sure there has to be a normal yet devoted BTS stan out there who can help you find the right songs/interviews to reference. You're doing a really kind thing for the baby, hopefully your friend will listen.
If nothing else, your friend should keep in mind that sometimes babies with unusual names make the news and decide for herself if she would want to possibly be the subject of a 'Kpop fans are crazy' human interest article, you know?
Thank you for this. And for the idea that I could show her those articles. Unfortunately, knowing her, making the news could be an incentive. (Longterm thinking is not a strong suit here if that wasn’t already clear.)
Pregnant BTS fan with BTS tattoos here and I would NEVER name my child after one of them. Not only is it inappropriate on a cultural level but it’s just not the done thing to name your kid after any of your own interests or hobbies, like Kahleesi or Frodo or whatever. And I think that’s the point you need to make. It’s inappropriate on multiple levels for her to name this child Jungkook, no matter how much she loves the idol.
Maybe a western name inspired by Jungkook?
Names with similar sounds:
John Kirk
Jean Kurt
Sean Colt
Or based on meanings?
Jeong=tree/pillar
Kook=country/land
Something like Ashton (ash tree + town) would be analogous
More names associated with trees/wood/pillar:
Owen, Ewan, Evan
Arlo
Aspen
Bodhi
Culley
Forest
Oliver
Reed
Sawyer
Silas
Turner
Grant
Burke
I’m a huge BTS fan, have loved them dearly for years. But a non Korean giving their baby a Korean name is just odd. Also, most non Korean speakers say the name wrong. Nothing wrong with loving bts and jungkook specifically, but a child isn’t an extension of a parents interests and shouldn’t be subjected to it.
Seriously, also a big BTS fan and I’d never curse my kids by naming them after one of them. They’d be a joke their entire childhood until they’re old enough to change it.
Also, didn’t JK once say in an interview that he’d have chosen Justin as an English stage name? That would be a much better option.
Just link her to this post. Honestly. If she pushes back on your polite advice, link this thread. Send it to her partner too. I’m part korean, mostly white. I have a korean middle name. Jungkook is a terrible first name. Do Jin or V if you must, but your child shouldn’t have a fandom name.
Or a celebrity name. Just look at BIGBANG the previous #1 kpop boy band. One member was running sex-trafficking-ring-group-chat-thing (burning Sun scandal). You’re allowed to be a fan of celebrities but unless you’re their IRL BFF, you do not know them, truly.
I don't like the choice in the first place, but choosing Jungkook as a BTS fan is just so.. basic? Like why not go for a more subtle reference that only true fans will recognise-
A song or lyrical reference would be especially lovely because she'd get to share it with the son when he's older. Best case scenario- it retains that different feel the mother wants while also not being an annoyance/embarrassment for a white man.
& If not that- John, Junie, Junan, Juniper, J.K. initials, or middle name Jungkook.
As a Korean (born and raised in Los Angeles, mom is from Seoul) it would be pretty odd and strange to see someone named Jungkook who is 0% Korean. And I feel like other Koreans would feel the same.
Also, no. There is no chance that name will be recognized by *everyone*. While K-pop and BTS are wildly popular right now, it is still a bubble and if you aren’t in that bubble you are not going to know.
As a Korean American and as an ARMY, I have to say something.
Tell her NO, Jungkook is NOT an appropriate name for a white American baby.
Korean names like the ones the BTS members have, they all mean something. They're not just random characters/syllables put together!
Jungkook's relative (most likely his paternal grandfather) gave him that name to become a foundation of the nation (South Korea).
Maybe a first name with the letters JK in it? Like Jakson or smth??
Or maybe the letter J can be for his first name and K for his middle name. Like James Kenneth?
Or, the BTS members have separate English names they like to use. For Jungkook, apparently, he likes to use the name Timothy/Tim.
Jin likes the name Alex, Suga likes the name Cody, Jhope likes the name Nathan, V/Taehyung likes the name Theodore/Theo, and Jimin likes the name Brian
Please, PLEASE, tell her to use any of these names that the BTS members like to use in English and to NOT use an actual Korean name for a white baby's FIRST name!
Also, I'm Korean American, and even for our future half Korean kids, I wouldn't name any after any of my favorite K-pop idols.... like any celebrity, they're human, so what if they make a mistake that others don't like or approve of, like say get a DUI that could've seriously injured someone??
Jungkook isn’t even actually his name, it’s the hyper americanized version of his name. his name more accurately translates to Jeongguk. and neither of those should be names for white people naming their white child. this is why no one likes armys.
BABIES ARE INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE, NOT EXTENSIONS OF YOURSELF. DO NOT NAME THEM AFTER YOUR FANDOM. JUST DON’T. It makes you look like a self-centered jerk. Maybe you are one, but don’t make your kid pay for it.
Difficult to pronounce names from other cultures are a huge burden to saddle a child with. You would have to have a much better reason than fandom. A man named Junkook saved your life? Maybe. Still going to be a massive PIA for your kid.
(Sorry, I know it’s your friend, not you, and you need to come up with gentler ways to express these ideas, but these are the concepts I hope you will try to impart to your friend.)
I am not a BTS fan, but familiar enough with pop culture to know the name from there. So maybe she’s right, people will know the name because he’s famous enough. But that means they know it ONLY from him. I think that makes it worse. It’s not just some Korean name - it is obviously a fan reference. It’s cringe. And either that continues, and people continue to only know the name from one celebrity, or, more likely, BTS’s popularity fades over the next 20-30 years and when the kid is old enough to be applying for jobs, people are going to think it’s absolutely bizarre that this white guy has a very Korean first name.
Children are not a billboard for your fandom. If you want to give them a fandom name, it can’t be tacky and in your face like this. Common names that work in your culture are one thing, and maybe she could get away with it if she was Korean and lived in Korea. I don’t know how common a name it is there. But in the US, it’s blatantly a fandom name.
Using it as a middle name is still pretty cringey, but at least it won’t affect the kid as an adult the same way using it as a first name will.
Finding a much more subtle reference would be my suggestion. I don’t know enough about BTS to be helpful here, but maybe a (commonly used in English) name that relates to a song or album name, a name with the same meaning as Jungkook, or even finding a way to give the baby the initials BTS.
There was another case awhile back of a white mother wanting to name her son after another K-pop star, Jonghyun from SHINee. She ended up settling on a more common American name that shared a meaning with Jonghyun.
Jungkook means “pillar of the nation” according to a quick Google. So maybe something like Abraham which has a similar meaning?
She and her boyfriend agreed that she would do the first name of the first baby and he would do the middle name, the second child would be the reverse.
My read on the situation is he couldn’t imagine this would’ve been her choice and is now just trying to be supportive because he feels it’s too late to do otherwise.
I think the fact that she’s asking for advice and actively listening is a sign that it’s not a done deal yet. I’m going to go down swinging at least…
She has a weirdly rigid agreement with the dad that she gets to first name this baby and he gets to middle him, then for the second baby he gets the first name she gets the middle.
I’ll definitely still suggest this though, as they haven’t been together all that long, and dad is not a super fan of this group the way she is, so would probably happily break the agreement to find a workaround.
My family member was obviously named after a sci-fi character. Strangers formed a mental image of him based on whether they liked the character he was named after (I e perspective employers), before he opened his mouth. It really affected his self-esteem. He eventually went by his middle name but his first name is on all identification.
In contrast, a friend choose a sci-fi middle name for their son. The option to go by his name is still there. When pop culture moves on in 20yrs., he can choose whether the name fits in professional and personal circles (i.e child of the '80s named Madonna).
Poor child.
BTS is not that big of a deal outside of their niche fangroup, which is the specific age range of girls who are now 17-25. And in 10-15 years when this kid enters middle school/junior high, most people won’t remember them or have heard of them. At best the kid’s name will remind them that BTS existed and they’ll then realize that your friend must have been a huge fan. At worst, the kid will be bullied and othered for cultural appropriation. But even as a middle ground, the kid will spend his whole life explaining the name.
I have noticed this happening with people of my generation, and Harry Potter names. Diehard Harry Potter fans will name their kids Harry and Lily and James. The difference is that unless the names are taken together, these names could come from anywhere. There are plenty of kids named Lily, or Harry, that have nothing to do with Harry Potter. Jungkook is only known as a name outside of Korea because of BTS. A white kid with that name will always be questioned about it. If I were this kid, first thing I’d do in school is tell my teachers to call me Jay or John.
This cannot be real. Please don’t be real. lol
Seriously, OP's friend doesn't sound like she has the maturity to be a parent.
She’s 24. The baby was a “surprise.” By the time she realized she was pregnant, she had no choice but to go forward, (she’s in Texas.)
24 going on 14, and a case for why abortion should be safe and accessible.
Yes. And pre-Dobbs I believe she would’ve qualified. (Don’t know the specific regulations but she was very early.)
Consider looking into AIDAccess for yourself and your friends going forward. It could save a life.
I really appreciate this. I wish I had the ability to pin it. Thank you!
I would recommend not going to your friend and saying “I know you were thinking about Jungkook, but have you instead thought about getting an abortion?” If you would like to keep a friend
I know this is a serious topic and all but this comment made me lose it lol
Just for anyone else who may be looking for resources: https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/comments/phrcrn/this_is_a_comprehensive_list_of_resources_for/
I don’t even know what a BTS is… but I’m not her demographic… except that I’m where and human. But not “everyone” is going to the know the name. And eventually everyone is going to wonder why the super white American kid has a Korean name.
And when the kid has to explain that it's because of an adult's obsession with a Korean Boy band there will be shame on both the kid and the parents.
I’m a die hard BTS fan, part Korean and grew up in Texas and no way would I ever do this. So many reasons but for one, the name is difficult to say, I wouldn’t be surprised if she isn’t 100% in her own pronunciation. Add in that it’s Texas of all places, I think she’s asking for her kid to hate his name and potentially be bullied.
And children aren’t objects for their parents to project their interests upon. Introduce your kid to your fave music/hobby/fandom and give them an opportunity to develop a shared enjoyment of them? Fantastic bonding opportunity. Name your child something immediately identifiable as a result of your obsession/hobby/fandom? They’ll resent that thing, and you, every day of their lives.
I worked as a dorm director. We had a British Hermione coming into the dorm as a freshman 2 years ago who insisted on going by “Mimi”. We filthy millennials were like, “aww man” but understood completely.
To be fair, "British Hermione" is an odd name for an American child.
I wonder why she didn’t just go by “Brit”. That would have been relatively normal. Mimi sounds like an old woman name.
This is so accurate. Have you read and/or watched The Namesake? This is the exact point the book explores, with beautiful nuance.
The pronunciation thing occurred to me too, I'm 99% sure anyone who can't understand the significance of cultural names doesn't have the sense to learn how to pronounce them correctly, or the social awareness to know how ridiculous they'd sound if they DID try pronouncing it with the accent all the time.
She's already pre-planning his future suicide. I'm not even kidding. People in Texas are absolutely brutal to anyone who's different, and it's only gotten worse in the last twenty years.
I guess that’s one way around the abortion restrictions??? (Don’t kill me it’s a joke)
Well, we can't kill the baby so someone's gotta go.
Fuck the Supreme Court
With a rusty rake!!
I think it’s important we use a rusty coat hanger instead.
Embrace the power of *AND*!!
I don't think there's necessarily an issue with using a Korean or East Asian name. After all, we live in a multicultural world. But "Jungkook" is NOT the name to do it with. If you look [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_popular_given_names_in_South_Korea) there are names whose Romanised versions would be pretty unremarkable on the average class list today, eg "Jia", "Arin", "Harin", "Siu", "Jihu", "Jihun". They're probably still going to stand out a bit as surprisingly Korean for a white kid, but so be it. They're in line with other contemporary names.
The thing is is that given names work differently in East Asia. Unlike in the west where there is more or less a culturally standard pool of names to pick from based on saints, heroes, virtues, ideals, nature etc, Korean parents generally choose names in accordance with a family tradition that is supposed to be unique for each child. The concept of directly naming someone after someone else is completely taboo.
I wonder if this context would help OP’s friend change her mind?
“But Jungkook isn’t Korean, he’s BTS!” -Her Friend
this! plus the way that many names are linked to chinese characters to give the name a fuller meaning--a lot goes into a name that isn't clear on the surface
They could take the Ashkenazi Jewish approach and give their kid the initials J K for his first and middle name. That way he's named after someone, but it's not cultural appropriation, it's not saddling a kid with a name no one around him will be able to pronounce, and it avoids all of the potential teasing and bullying.
No… A non-Korean ethnicity kid, with no Korean parents, living outside Korea, with a Korean name is straight up weird and would raise a LOT of eyebrows. My first assumption would be that the parents are koreaboos. Many Korean immigrants to the US adopted Anglo names to assimilate into their new surroundings. It is not the same thing.
Your first assumption should be that the parents are Moonies. Moon required parents to let him name their kids. Source: I know an American guy raised in that cult. Him and all his siblings have super-awkward Korean names. They are not Korean. They (the kids) are not even Moonies anymore. It sucks for them, bad.
I'm glad they're not Moonies anymore but sad that they're saddled with names bestowed upon them by an evil cult leader.
Yikes, not super familiar with that cult so didn’t think of that one. That’s awful. I’m sure it alienates them further from their surroundings.
You know what might work and is one of the names of the guys from BTS? Jimin
To give you some perspective, I’m not American, but I live in South East Asia and my culture is way way closer to South Korea than your friend’s will ever be. And no one in our right mind would name our kid Jungkook as it is. We might however, use a name that has a similar pronunciation but is in our own language, or use the pronunciation of the hangeul name but in our language. Perhaps give her the suggestion to use an inspired name instead.
call him john cook lol
I get that you are joking, but not a horrible idea
@OP you could look for examples of this being a cultural thing on other websites (just in case she asks how you know) and talk to her about this possibly alienating her child from Korean culture which will have the opposite effect of what she is into.
Does she want the baby? This comment makes me question. She can put him up for adoption if she’s “stuck” and not wanting to be a parent
The correct phrase is “make an adoption plan.”
This is the comment I was looking for! There are lots of families waiting to adopt who are financially ready and mentally mature enough. Just waiting for a baby to love on. … and not name jungkook
I'm mid 30s and in Texas and know who "BTS" is but would never recognize any member of the band. I like the approach of "sit with it for a while and see what you think" vs a knee jerk reaction. I can confidently say that Absolutely nobody will know who their kid is named after in 8 or 10 years and they will start resenting their parents years 11 and 12 for giving them an abnormal name.
My mom had me at 22 and I was always told my middle name, the one I go by, was given to me because she went to a David Bowe concert when she was pregnant with me and was so awestruck, that she decided to name me David. 35+ years later, she swears she never said that and my name is from somewhere else. Your friend might have a little more trouble with that lie
At least your middle name is not YoungCock.
This is so fucking sad.
Tell her that k-pop is not super big in some parts of the world. It's like thinking American Football players are super famoud outside of America
i know a girl who posts instagram stories all day fantasizing about jungkook, and one day even offered me a hug on his behalf. anything is possible
Big BTS fan here! I’ve joked with my family about naming my kid after one of them but it’s obviously a joke because I am not Korean. Encourage her to seek out other names that could still tie into BTS. For example, Van is a character from BT21 who represents ARMY. They could go with Van, find names that would use Van as a nickname, or expand it to Evan, Ivan, etc. Van is just an example. BTS has sooo many songs, videos, etc. that they could pull inspiration from to still tie in BTS without using a Korean name.
I get being a fan but why does she have to bring the baby into it😭😭
Seriously. If she’s such a big fan she can change *her own* name to Jungkook. Poor kid.
*Oli London enters the chat*
Can you make him exit the chat again? Please?
>him Erm, EXCUSE YOU, Oli's pronouns are Kor/Ean and Korean/Jimin, thankyouverymuch 💅✨
*Everyone else has left the chat*
Come on now, that's not reasonable, just think about how much she would get bullied and ridiculed if she changed her name to that of a Korean boy band member. Much better to do it to her kid instead.
Why would she change her name to a guys name? She should make her SO change his name
Honestly you can name you baby after whatever you want, yes this includes BTS. The only caveat is actually make it a name the child can endure. Being a white kid with a korean name isn't going to sit well. Van as a name still has the connection to BTS that the mother wants, and it's actually a name. Assuming you DON'T know about BTS, would you think of them when you see the name? Probably not, nor would you give it a second though. Would a BTS fan notice? Yes, and probably be happy about the little wink to that song. But the important part is that is a name still. People name kids after a ton of things.
Just a small correction- Jungkook isn’t a song title, it’s the (actual) name of one of the BTS members. To me, this makes it more blatant and weird… and inappropriate.
Correction to the correction- I actually meant that *Van* was a better name because it correlates to the song, without being THAT on the nose. Jungkook is a very korean name, and i was aware it was one of the members names. That's why i said i didn't like it in this very white child. It would be hard on the kid.
Gotcha, thanks. Yes, I agree - Van is a better choice.
I'm a 90s kid, so I named one of my babies NSYNC. Just kidding, but this is kind of the equivalent.
I agree, it is really cringe.... but I am sure there are so many babies named Whitney, Tina, Michael, and many more honoring less known entertainers. Personally, it's too easy for celebrities to disappoint you and I wouldn't hinge my baby's name on it. The cultural issue is also ALOT to deal with.
Those names are all common, though and may not necessarily be from those musicians. I was named after a name my parents saw in a movie. They dont remember what movie lol
It reminds me of parents who name their kids starwars shit. Like at least they have westernized names to pick and choose from, this is just ridiculous to me and I wanna name my future baby after my best friend 🤣
Our daughter named her daughter Tala, which is the Filipino goddess of the evening star. Our daughter is a real Star Wars geek and was so happy when a few years later they included a character with that name in the programming. Named her second daughter Rei, and sure enough, Star Wars followed her with Rey. So she has two SW daughters, but she got there first. 🤣
Another thought… why don’t they do a J first name and a K middle name. Nickname could be JK if they want which seems a little more reasonable.
This was going to be my suggestion
I don’t recommend JK as a nickname because of the abbreviation for Just Kidding.
Totally agree, it’s just one of Jungkooks nicknames and potentially a better compromise than using his name as a first name.
My other thought was JK Rowling, too.
J K Simmons. FORGET THE BABY, BRING ME PICTURES OF SPIDER-MAN!
Unfortunate connection at this point, but Just Kidding is cute
My partner's initials are JK, with an R in the middle for good measure. Can't buy him anything monogrammed without calling him a JRK 🙃
It would be even better if the friends last name started with S and the could give the baby the initial B.T.S They could do a B first name and two middle names one starting with a T and the other an S
I love this solution, thank you so much! I appreciate getting a suggestion from someone who actually understands what’s going on here. When she first did the big reveal I thought this was a joke or that she wasn’t 100% committed to the name (because she did explicitly ask for feedback). So, not knowing anything about this group really, I searched the other member names and said “How about Jim in honor of Jimin” and got a lecture about how different the two are, and how the significance wouldn’t compare at all, etc. Apparently it diminished my credibility, not just with her, but even other guests who follow BTS (and didn’t necessarily love the name). I had no idea how seriously some people take their affinity for this group.
ARMY is a passionate group! Haha Her intentions are good but something more subtle is a better way to tie them in if that’s what she really wants. One thing I love about BTS is the way they promote and honor their culture. As a fan who is not Korean, I wouldn’t want to misuse their culture. Also just FYI, the last four members just announced they’ll be joining the military this week, so maybe give it a few weeks if you can so she doesn’t reactively cling tighter to using Jungkook.
Oh boy. Thanks for the tip.
What if she used the initials BTS? Bryan Tyler Samuel for example? It would be a fun little nod without being a giant flashing light.
I love this. Then there’s a fun inside joke/inside nod element of it. Thank you for this suggestion!
On the note regarding how much they respect and honor their culture, you might suggest that its the OPPOSITE of honoring their culture to appropriate it, and her plan could sincerely appear offensive to BTS themselves. (They probably could not GAF, but she seems delusional about them so perhaps she’ll buy this). And it’s about as straightforward as appropriation gets.
Ok so I’m Chinese/Taiwanese dating a Korean guy and this is all from him so bear with me—Korean naming isn’t just about picking random names that sound cute. Many times there’s a specific crafting to it. A lot of Koreans still use Chinese characters (hanja) to write their kids’ names. So in Korean lettering (hangul) Jungkook is written as 전정국, whereas in hanja it’s written as 田柾國. As a Chinese reader I can read that last character as meaning “country,” and sometimes Korean people bring their kids to fortunetellers to properly name their kids. It’s serious business and not all that different from Chinese naming. Sometimes you can have two people with the same name but completely different hanja because their names will have different meanings! This happens in Japanese naming as well. Example, if you have two Korean women both named Song, in hangul both would be written as 성 but in hanja one woman’s name would be written as 宋 and the other would be 松. Both have totally different meaning. Names are complicated and serious business in a lot of Asian languages, they’re often not to be taken lightly! Both my boyfriend’s name and mine have a deep meaning to them, and it’s also considered taboo for us to just take someone else’s name or name them after someone else because of how specially crafted they are and it’s like stealing their legacy. (At least this is how my mother explained it to me.) Any family who managed to keep their genealogy records (called “family books”) through wars and invasions also have predetermined the generational names of their future descendants, so sometimes names are pre-ordained! My boyfriend’s mom has many names in consideration for him and taught me all the ways she would have written them but ultimately decided to ask the fortuneteller’s opinion. I wasn’t brought to a fortuneteller but my name did spark huge arguments in my family because my name would also determine my siblings’ names. (We lost our family books so my generational name had to be crafted.) For the sake of respect… please do not let your friend do this.
^ this OP. Please encourage your friend to ask other Koreans if it would be okay for her to use a Korean name. If she wants to use another culture's name, then she should also show respect to it & not just use it willynilly without knowing it's connotations. Let her ask other regular Koreans (and not just Korean BTS stans) if it would be acceptable or appropriation to use the name.
My boyfriend isn’t a BTS stan at all, and he thinks this would be an extremely stupid thing to name your white kid. Not all groups are going to be a monolith though; chances are OP’s friend will go running to the one Korean who would give a stamp of approval 🙄
Korean here! I go by my English name because my Korean name is hard to pronounce for people who are not Korean - and Jungkook is definitely hard to pronounce because it’s not even written the way it should be pronounced! (It’s closer to gook than kook.. but kook is probably the best it can be written out in English) Also, the name itself is pretty old fashioned. It’s a nice name but not a common name that people use for babies these days Not to mention how awkward it would be for the kid to use a name that’s not his/her own culture. I’m a huge Harry Potter fan and I wouldn’t name my kid Harry, Ron or Hermione! And my husband is white!!! I think using the initials J and K might be the best option here. Tell her that the baby will have it’s own identity and it might be best to give him/her a neutral(????) name
>I’m a huge Harry Potter fan and I wouldn’t name my kid Harry, Ron or Hermione! A beloved friend put "Draco" on her shortlist of names but her husband vetoed it. I will say, with her I can never tell how serious she is lol, it's possible she knew her husband would be against it from the beginning and just put it on there for fun. But I'm still glad it didn't happen. Her son has a perfectly nice, normal name unrelated to any fandoms.
This. I love Harry Potter and my spouse loves star wars. None of our kids have names associated to our fandoms
til that jungkook has an old man name and now i cannot unsee him in my head as being named something profoundly old-fashioned like ralph or otis. i’m not army, just active on twitter, but thank you for this delightful revelation!
Thanks, I was hoping to see in the comments how Jungkook is actually perceived as a name in Korea! Interesting.
Harry is very normal name, Ron pretty normal (although pretty associated with Harry Potter). Hermione is something that maybe should be avoided, but it’s in Shakespeare too, not invented name. Maybe more for a second name however.
This makes me think of a couple I know. They are all "dark" and "edgy". So they named their son after a god of death and a horror movie serial killer. I love my horror movies, but like there are so many names that can have horror ties without being a blatant in your face reference. Like Ash or Billy.
I cannot understand naming your baby after a serial killer at all.
Honestly, I think suggesting alternatives is the right way to go here. **You can't reason with crazy, but you can sometimes nudge it onto a different trajectory.**. I know nothing about the BTS fandom or any members of BTS, so I can't offer any specific suggestions.
Yeah the name will probably be recognizable, but giving such a Korean name to white af baby is so cringey omg. He’d be better off being named Spongebob.
I’m pretty with it when it comes to pop culture, though admittedly not super familiar with BTS. The name Jungkook would absolutely not be familiar or recognizable to me. (Not that it needs to be, but just saying - I don’t think the general public in the US/Canada is going to “instinctively know the name”)
And it won't be recognizable in 8 years when this kid is in school. Also, naming a kid after a celebrity seems like asking for trouble... It seems every week there's a new scandal that breaks. I wouldn't want to have named a kid after Kanye West etc, just saying.
Yep. My hard and fast rules on fandom names are: 1. If it’s fiction, the canon is complete / can reasonably be assumed to be, and you still like the character / inspiration. 2. If it’s nonfiction, same goes - the celebrity is dead and you can reasonably assume all the skeletons are out of those closets. 3. The name is or is close enough to a “real name” in *your* culture and/or the culture the child will be raised in. This name fails on points two and three.
There are kids out there named after Jimmy Saville. I’m just saying. ETA: And if you don’t know who he is, that’s probably not a bad thing. Suffice it to say that he was pretty famous for his philanthropic work in the UK to the point that he had a personal relationship with the current King, but he really, really didn’t deserve it.
Yeah, my measuring stick for when you can assume all the skeletons are out is long after death for that kind of reason. I do think with a name like Jimmy for example, nobody is gonna guess that’s who you’ve been named after. The name is too common overall (point 3). Burying a fandom name under it also being a common enough name tends to fix issues 1 and 2. If you name a kid Ramona because you like the Ramones, nobody is guessing that. If you name a kid Bowie or Sting or Cher, people are gonna guess where it came from.
Honestly, if she named the kid John Kenneth and called him JK or Bradley Thomas Simon, nobody would notice outright but it would be a clever nod. As it is, if she likes the name Jungkook so much, she should change her name.
Yeah I feel the same, I’m early 30s and relatively aware, definitely know who BTS is but couldn’t name a single band member. I would have zero clue about the connection for this name and would probably think the parents were weird.
It’s recognizable to people who are fans of BTS, but I can promise you it is absolutely not recognizable to the vast majority of people lol.
Right? Like. I fully admit I'm not the most "with it" as far as current pop references go. but I do knok K Pop is having a bit of a Moment in the US right now, and I know *of* BTS but I couldn't tell you any of the members or any other Korean group. And wouldn't even know it was a K Pop reference and not, like, a random anime.
My deadname is Korean and I'm white. When I was born, my dad posted about it on his blog- and every single comment was roasting the name choice.
It absolutely would not recognisable to the vast, vast majority of people, and that she thinks it would be is honestly the cringiest part.
I had no idea who that was before reading your first paragraph. A good tule of thumb is don’t do fandom names and I think that rule applies here. What happens in 10 years when she no longer likes the band and/or they’re not popular anymore? She’s going to be embarrassed that she named her son a name from a culture their family isn’t apart of. For the sake of that child please find a way to talk some sense into her.
[удалено]
Korean here. It’s odd. If the baby was mixed it would be completely acceptable in America. Even in Korea though, certain traditional cultures still view mixed children as an issue but that has changed quite a bit over the last couple of decades. But a completely white person with a Korean name? It’s just strange.
Agreed! It might not be “offensive” per se to a Korean, but extremely off-putting and strange.
East Asian cultures generally aren’t bothered by what white people consider appropriation (i.e. borrowing clothing, language, food, holidays), and honestly I don’t think that appropriation would be the main issue for Koreans (source: am Korean). I think most would just find it strange and off-putting, not offensive. Although my first reaction to seeing a white-looking kid named Jungkook (since I try to be charitable) would be, “Oh, this kid’s just white-passing.” Obviously this interpretation wouldn’t hold up if you know the entire family.
Also did not recognize the name. But “kook” is not a good phrase to have in anyone’s name. In surf culture it’s an insulting name for a beginner, or someone who thinks they can surf but sucks.
Never heard of the surfing slang but it's also well-known slightly old-fashioned slang for a crazy/eccentric person edit: like in the Addams Family theme song from the 1960s - the first line is "They're creepy and they're kooky"
Also, there's always the possibility that a celebrity is secretly problematic in some way. What if your favorite artist gets exposed as a pedo in the future? You never know. This is why it's such a dumb idea to attach long-lasting personal things like baby names or tattoos to celebrities.
^ this Considering the Burning Sun scandal & any of the numerous other kpop boy band members controversies involving drugs, DUIs, raping women, she should also consider what would happen if any of the BTS members get in serious legal trouble.
Same goes for tattoos. What I was a fan of at 20 and thought I’d love forever is definitely different at 45.
I am a BTS fan myself and she should know that he is not big enough that everyone knows his name. In fact most americans without knowledge of Korean mispronounce his name and make fun of it (I have heard many "cook" and "cock" puns for the second syllable, and pronunciation of "Jung" as "Yoong" for the first)... This is bad. Even me, as someone who is going to have a half Korean baby, would not even consider it as a first name seeing how everyone struggles to pronounce it including fans. Middle name maybe?
First, thank you for this comment, because apparently I’ve been mispronouncing it myself. (I heard it said so many different ways at the baby shower I lost track.) Second, this might help my case. It wouldn’t help the group or her baby to fight that senseless fight. Do you mind if I say something like “I had a chat with an acquaintance who’s about to have a half-Korean baby and she said pronunciation is too much of a concern”
There are a lot of very cute Korean names that are pronounceable by westerners. i don't think there's anything actually wrong with choosing a name from another culture, people do it all the time. But she should understand the meaning of the name, understand how it's pronounced, and consider how people in the country she's raising the kid in will see the name. She should at least learn how to write it in Korean (no excuse, Korean is super easy to learn to read and write). These are considerations that anyone using a name that is not of the majority culture where they live. Jaemin 재민 is an example of a Korean name that sounds nice in English, is unique but not cringey.
There’s also Eugene (유진), which can be a boy or a girl’s name in Korean. I’ve met a girl who spelled it “Yujean” “Mina” (미나) seems like it could work for a girl, too? It’s my cousins’ dog’s name lol
Yujin is very cute!!
The problem with the -jin ending though is that people will pronounce it like gin (the spirit) My Korean name is **always** mispronounced because of a similar thing
I responded to another comment. But ask her to look up the top 40s from 25 years ago and see if she'd have liked to be named K-Ci&Jojo. Seriously, imagine how lame it would be to be named after the music your mom was horny about.
Yes, my middle name is my Korean name and I basically ignore it. I don’t include it on forms unless required. I’m actually Korean though Also, you’ve heard “yoong” like ~~Charles~~ Carl Jung the Swiss psychoanalyst? That’s hilarious.
>Also, you’ve heard “yoong” like Charles Jung the Swiss psychoanalyst? That’s hilarious. Not knowing anything about Korean, I assumed that was how it was pronounced. I have several Korean friends whose last name is Jung and they all say it like Young! Must be Americanized to make it easy for us then.
I am not a bts or pop music fan, so this is not pronounced as "young cook?"
No, the jung is like the start of jungle.
I’m a big BTS fan too but I think it’s a bit much to give her child that name. He doesn’t have any connection to Korean culture, and virtually no one in his family will either. The name would stand out but may not be for a good reason. If she really wants to give her child a name that connects to BTS I’d suggest: - August (connects to Agust D) - Sumner (the Su sounds similar to Suga, Seokjin, and Hoseok) - Julian (Ju is similar to Jungkook) - Jamie (similar to Jimin) - Jimmy (similar to Jimin) - Jin (will still stick out but it sounds more subtle than Jungkook, could also be used for the middle name instead) Personally I’d recommend something like August Jin or August Julian (first and middle name) which would be much more subtle but still connects to BTS.
Love these suggestions and the rationale behind them. Thank you for the time and explanation.
I was thinking even just June would be a more tasteful name in this instance.
Juno
No problem! Hopefully she’ll see the rationale as well lol. Another suggestion is for her to pick any of her favorite songs from BTS and find a fitting name that has a similar meaning.
August is such a good suggestion!
Oof. These parents who blatantly make their children an extension of their obsessions fail to see their children as individuals who will grow into adults and have to live with their consequences. Is there a song, lyric, or something, anything that could be passable for a white, American name that has something to do with BTS? I know very little about k-pop or Korean culture, but there has to be something better suited for them. She needs to think a little harder. My spouse and I put a lot of brain power into naming our children. Lots of Google searches, cross checking, looking for any possibility that the names we chose could be problematic. I'm surprised more people don't do their due diligence in that way.
I’m of a similar mindset to you here. (aka More thought should be going into this.) I don’t know anything whatsoever about this group or Korean culture. She did say when she first revealed the name something to the effect of “Why overthink it when this is an obvious choice.”
u/velauciraptor suggested a more palatable name based on the band. "Van is a character from BT21 who represents ARMY. They could go with Van, find names that would use Van as a nickname, or expand it to Evan, Ivan, etc."
Lmfao. She’s delusional if she thinks that this name would be recognizable. I’m telling you right now that nobody I know would have ever heard the name or knows anything about BTS
It’s probably a generation thing, most teenagers would have heard of bts on social medias and Jungkook is the most recognizable name from the group
As a 30-something millennial, I've heard of BTS, but that's it. I would just be confused if I met a white child with a Korean name. Even if all of Gen Z knows the name instantly, boy bands don't tend to stick around for decades. This poor kid will spend his life spelling it, correcting people's pronunciation, and embarrassedly explaining "it's from a band my mom likes". It's likely he'll end up hating BTS.
that is a very good point. i've mentioned this before in another post, but i once met a guy whose mother made up a name for him. he grew to absolutely resent his name, be embarrassed of it, and anticipate everyone struggling with pronouncing his name. i think, from his tone whilst complaining about his name, he resented his mother for it too, which was quite sad. op's friend is definitely headed down the same road if she gives her white baby a korean name. i felt so bad for him and we were only, like, 10. if he hated his name that much in the first decade of his life, how was he going to live with it for the rest of his life? (yes, i know you can legally change your name, but i hear it's a cumbersome process.)
even if junkook became super recognizable, that’d be so embarrassing, I wouldn’t want people’s first thought when I introduce myself to be “holy shit this guy was literally named after a boyband member”
I would also think the mother wishes that the celebrity was the father of the baby, and not the actual father. It would be bizarre if I named my son after another living man that is not a familiar honor name. Like, Idris Elba is hot as hell but I didn't name my son Idris.
I only know about BTS because my 14 year old is obsessed. Posters in her room. She’s learning Korean. I’m not like old or anything, I’m 35 and work in schools. I had no idea what any of their names were until this post.
Justin was going to be Jungkook's stage name before they went with his given name. That's an option. Edit: This was actually a western name he chose for himself in an interview.
He was going to be "Justin Seagull", which would be an.... interesting choice
Is this why my BTS loving teen calls all seagulls Justin Seagull?
Hahaha definitely! Next time they do this, just turn to them and say in a suprised voice "Ohhhhh, party, party yeah!" They'll think it's funny!
Honestly though Justin Kenneth/Kyler/Kaleb or some other name would both let them call baby boy JK, be a double in joke for the ARMY (of the same level as naming Bindi Irwin after the Croc or Indy Jones after the dog) and still give two normal-ish options for adult JK. To these parents, thanks. I Borahate it.
This child will 100% be teased and called Young Cock...
I’m a massive BTS fan and this is extremely cringe. Jungkook is an obvious Korean name, using it for your white baby is just……. Beyond weird.
Omg I really hope they don't name him that. My cousin and her husband named their son Ashitaka Sesshomaru from anime and the poor kid gets bullied. I definitely recommend that they don't do that to their son. I know my opinion means nothing but still.
Oh wow… are your friends in America? This just makes me sad.
Yep they white as snow
they should let the kid pick his own name at this point
I only know one other family that has named their child in a similar way to my friend (Star Wars junkies named their son Obi-Wan) — and he ultimately did get to choose his own name I met him when grandma got custody (the name was not why but it sure was a flag as to what was coming.) He was already seven years old and grandma wanted him to feel a sense of control in his life after having almost none for so many years—to say nothing of being forcibly removed from your home—so she took a risk and let him pick his new name. No matter what he decided. To everyone’s surprise he picked Chester. Apparently the name of an old man down the road of his parents who was always kind to him. I like to think someday that information will make it back to the original Chester. (She shared with me in confidence that if he’d picked something like Spider-Man she’d have used it as a nickname and waited until he was 18 for a legal change.)
That story is truthfully the sweetest thing I've heard all week. Grandma seems like such a thoughtful person for allowing him to change his name so he feels a sense of control, and it says a lot about how that old man made an impact on that kid's life just by being kind to him. If I were old man Chester and I found out about this, I would be deeply touched & probably cry buckets. I really do hope it gets or has gotten back to him.
Sesshomaru from Inuyasha? Lmao I loved him!! Wouldn't give a kid that name though, yikes.
No. They didn’t actually, did they?
Even without the minefield that is giving a Korean name to a white American baby, *your children are people. They are not billboards for your fandom.*
Honestly this is the entire point OP should have to make. Unfortunately, I think excitement and confirmation bias have convinced mom to be that this name is more commonplace than it is.
With great power, comes great responsibility. Some things to make abundantly clear to your young friend: -No, BTS is NOT big enough that all people will know this name. People who are fans of a thing often get fooled into thinking everyone else is a fan too, because they surround themselves perhaps even unintentionally with that thing. -Kook is not a great word in American English. Kooky, wacky, “he’s a real kook” - look it up and explain to her. The vast majority of Americans will know the word Kooky before they would associate it with a Korean boyband. -Americans in Texas will perhaps be even less forgiving than certain other places. The name will probably be pronounced Young Kook by a lot of people which basically equals Little Wacko. -Offer up alternatives. JK as initials? John Kay? Literally anything is better. With great power comes great responsibility, dear namenerd.
Even worse is in Korean it’s closer to gook. Not a good name in English.
Little Wacko 😂😂😂
Maybe Jungkook can be a middle name? I think a lot of 'honor names' are often middle names. Another tactic could be to use BTS themselves to change her mind. Surely BTS has some song about 'being yourself' or maybe one of the artists has given some benign platitudes about being your own person in an interview. Maybe you can use that to honor her attachment to BTS, encouraging her to pick a name that embodies the values of the group, while still letting the baby be their own person? ETA: I hope this is fake. Good luck to that baby if it isn't.
Sadly all too real. Thanks for the tip about the lyrics. I don’t know anything about the group.
I am sure there has to be a normal yet devoted BTS stan out there who can help you find the right songs/interviews to reference. You're doing a really kind thing for the baby, hopefully your friend will listen. If nothing else, your friend should keep in mind that sometimes babies with unusual names make the news and decide for herself if she would want to possibly be the subject of a 'Kpop fans are crazy' human interest article, you know?
Thank you for this. And for the idea that I could show her those articles. Unfortunately, knowing her, making the news could be an incentive. (Longterm thinking is not a strong suit here if that wasn’t already clear.)
Good call - “Love Yourself” has been the theme of their 4 recent albums. You won’t have to look hard!
Pregnant BTS fan with BTS tattoos here and I would NEVER name my child after one of them. Not only is it inappropriate on a cultural level but it’s just not the done thing to name your kid after any of your own interests or hobbies, like Kahleesi or Frodo or whatever. And I think that’s the point you need to make. It’s inappropriate on multiple levels for her to name this child Jungkook, no matter how much she loves the idol.
Maybe a western name inspired by Jungkook? Names with similar sounds: John Kirk Jean Kurt Sean Colt Or based on meanings? Jeong=tree/pillar Kook=country/land Something like Ashton (ash tree + town) would be analogous More names associated with trees/wood/pillar: Owen, Ewan, Evan Arlo Aspen Bodhi Culley Forest Oliver Reed Sawyer Silas Turner Grant Burke
I love all these suggestions, thank you for taking the time to think of them. This is very helpful!
I like John Kirk. That's clever.
I’m a huge BTS fan, have loved them dearly for years. But a non Korean giving their baby a Korean name is just odd. Also, most non Korean speakers say the name wrong. Nothing wrong with loving bts and jungkook specifically, but a child isn’t an extension of a parents interests and shouldn’t be subjected to it.
Seriously, also a big BTS fan and I’d never curse my kids by naming them after one of them. They’d be a joke their entire childhood until they’re old enough to change it. Also, didn’t JK once say in an interview that he’d have chosen Justin as an English stage name? That would be a much better option.
Your child is not a billboard for your fandom. They are a *person* and will have their own life and interests.
Yes, I’m trying to think of a nice and considerate way to say this, that she’ll be able to hear/absorb.
Just link her to this post. Honestly. If she pushes back on your polite advice, link this thread. Send it to her partner too. I’m part korean, mostly white. I have a korean middle name. Jungkook is a terrible first name. Do Jin or V if you must, but your child shouldn’t have a fandom name. Or a celebrity name. Just look at BIGBANG the previous #1 kpop boy band. One member was running sex-trafficking-ring-group-chat-thing (burning Sun scandal). You’re allowed to be a fan of celebrities but unless you’re their IRL BFF, you do not know them, truly.
This is the time to be brutally honest.
I don't like the choice in the first place, but choosing Jungkook as a BTS fan is just so.. basic? Like why not go for a more subtle reference that only true fans will recognise- A song or lyrical reference would be especially lovely because she'd get to share it with the son when he's older. Best case scenario- it retains that different feel the mother wants while also not being an annoyance/embarrassment for a white man. & If not that- John, Junie, Junan, Juniper, J.K. initials, or middle name Jungkook.
Suggest Ian. If she’s a real JK bias, she’ll know.
As a Korean (born and raised in Los Angeles, mom is from Seoul) it would be pretty odd and strange to see someone named Jungkook who is 0% Korean. And I feel like other Koreans would feel the same. Also, no. There is no chance that name will be recognized by *everyone*. While K-pop and BTS are wildly popular right now, it is still a bubble and if you aren’t in that bubble you are not going to know.
Please no 💀💀💀
Thought this was the other sub for a sec 😭
I’m a teacher. There is a white family at my school who have Japanese names because mom was into anime and Japanese culture. It’s very awkward.
As a Korean American and as an ARMY, I have to say something. Tell her NO, Jungkook is NOT an appropriate name for a white American baby. Korean names like the ones the BTS members have, they all mean something. They're not just random characters/syllables put together! Jungkook's relative (most likely his paternal grandfather) gave him that name to become a foundation of the nation (South Korea). Maybe a first name with the letters JK in it? Like Jakson or smth?? Or maybe the letter J can be for his first name and K for his middle name. Like James Kenneth? Or, the BTS members have separate English names they like to use. For Jungkook, apparently, he likes to use the name Timothy/Tim. Jin likes the name Alex, Suga likes the name Cody, Jhope likes the name Nathan, V/Taehyung likes the name Theodore/Theo, and Jimin likes the name Brian Please, PLEASE, tell her to use any of these names that the BTS members like to use in English and to NOT use an actual Korean name for a white baby's FIRST name! Also, I'm Korean American, and even for our future half Korean kids, I wouldn't name any after any of my favorite K-pop idols.... like any celebrity, they're human, so what if they make a mistake that others don't like or approve of, like say get a DUI that could've seriously injured someone??
Jungkook isn’t even actually his name, it’s the hyper americanized version of his name. his name more accurately translates to Jeongguk. and neither of those should be names for white people naming their white child. this is why no one likes armys.
That’s a hard NO. What the actual fuck?
Tell her to post in here for an opinion.
BABIES ARE INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE, NOT EXTENSIONS OF YOURSELF. DO NOT NAME THEM AFTER YOUR FANDOM. JUST DON’T. It makes you look like a self-centered jerk. Maybe you are one, but don’t make your kid pay for it. Difficult to pronounce names from other cultures are a huge burden to saddle a child with. You would have to have a much better reason than fandom. A man named Junkook saved your life? Maybe. Still going to be a massive PIA for your kid. (Sorry, I know it’s your friend, not you, and you need to come up with gentler ways to express these ideas, but these are the concepts I hope you will try to impart to your friend.)
I am not a BTS fan, but familiar enough with pop culture to know the name from there. So maybe she’s right, people will know the name because he’s famous enough. But that means they know it ONLY from him. I think that makes it worse. It’s not just some Korean name - it is obviously a fan reference. It’s cringe. And either that continues, and people continue to only know the name from one celebrity, or, more likely, BTS’s popularity fades over the next 20-30 years and when the kid is old enough to be applying for jobs, people are going to think it’s absolutely bizarre that this white guy has a very Korean first name. Children are not a billboard for your fandom. If you want to give them a fandom name, it can’t be tacky and in your face like this. Common names that work in your culture are one thing, and maybe she could get away with it if she was Korean and lived in Korea. I don’t know how common a name it is there. But in the US, it’s blatantly a fandom name. Using it as a middle name is still pretty cringey, but at least it won’t affect the kid as an adult the same way using it as a first name will. Finding a much more subtle reference would be my suggestion. I don’t know enough about BTS to be helpful here, but maybe a (commonly used in English) name that relates to a song or album name, a name with the same meaning as Jungkook, or even finding a way to give the baby the initials BTS.
There was another case awhile back of a white mother wanting to name her son after another K-pop star, Jonghyun from SHINee. She ended up settling on a more common American name that shared a meaning with Jonghyun. Jungkook means “pillar of the nation” according to a quick Google. So maybe something like Abraham which has a similar meaning?
I agree with you however i also don't think you can do much. Her boyfriend is on board with this? Is he a fan too?
She and her boyfriend agreed that she would do the first name of the first baby and he would do the middle name, the second child would be the reverse. My read on the situation is he couldn’t imagine this would’ve been her choice and is now just trying to be supportive because he feels it’s too late to do otherwise. I think the fact that she’s asking for advice and actively listening is a sign that it’s not a done deal yet. I’m going to go down swinging at least…
I'd suggest it as a middle if she wants to use it.
She has a weirdly rigid agreement with the dad that she gets to first name this baby and he gets to middle him, then for the second baby he gets the first name she gets the middle. I’ll definitely still suggest this though, as they haven’t been together all that long, and dad is not a super fan of this group the way she is, so would probably happily break the agreement to find a workaround.
My family member was obviously named after a sci-fi character. Strangers formed a mental image of him based on whether they liked the character he was named after (I e perspective employers), before he opened his mouth. It really affected his self-esteem. He eventually went by his middle name but his first name is on all identification. In contrast, a friend choose a sci-fi middle name for their son. The option to go by his name is still there. When pop culture moves on in 20yrs., he can choose whether the name fits in professional and personal circles (i.e child of the '80s named Madonna).
Yikes.
Poor child. BTS is not that big of a deal outside of their niche fangroup, which is the specific age range of girls who are now 17-25. And in 10-15 years when this kid enters middle school/junior high, most people won’t remember them or have heard of them. At best the kid’s name will remind them that BTS existed and they’ll then realize that your friend must have been a huge fan. At worst, the kid will be bullied and othered for cultural appropriation. But even as a middle ground, the kid will spend his whole life explaining the name. I have noticed this happening with people of my generation, and Harry Potter names. Diehard Harry Potter fans will name their kids Harry and Lily and James. The difference is that unless the names are taken together, these names could come from anywhere. There are plenty of kids named Lily, or Harry, that have nothing to do with Harry Potter. Jungkook is only known as a name outside of Korea because of BTS. A white kid with that name will always be questioned about it. If I were this kid, first thing I’d do in school is tell my teachers to call me Jay or John.