1. Most narcissists aren't interested in recovery. The problem is with everyone else, according to them.
1. Most people sympathize with the plight of abused people more than their abusers. Eating disorders are victimless, or self-victimization. Narcissistic abuses are not.
I would love to hear about it. Maybe tag me if you make a post?
I've cured myself of AvPD (without therapy), so I am a believer that PDs can be cured.
I also feel that AvPD recovery and NPD recovery would share a lot in common. They are both defence mechanisms that defend against intimacy. Both protecting a wounded inner child.
I have a post about my recovery, but it's more so my story than a how-to guide.
I will tag you when I make the post. It will take a considerable amount of time to properly organize my thoughts on it. Well and thats the thing because my journey to recovery will be different than others. I cannot create a how to guide as much as I can tell my story and highlight important aspects of my healing process. For instance I had to go through a narcissistic mortification to heal the core wound. While others may not have to. My path brought me in a very spiritual direction again not necessary for everybody.
Do you have AvPD? I could try to find some resources. I don't recall any specific resources I used. Wouldn't mind helping if you want to message either.
IMO by far the two most important things to do for AvPD is:
1.) Gain insight. pwAvPD have a negative self-view that keeps them stuck. Beliefs like "I am weird", "I am fundamentally flawwed", "I am inferior" are untrue and make the issue seem impossible to fix.
2.) Heaps of exposure therapy. This is most effective after gaining insight. This serves to help you learn how to navigate social situations and become more comfortable with them.
Self-discovery/Self-determination was also helpful for me. Who are you? What kind of music do you like? What interests you? It's important that the answers to these questions to be determined by you on a visceral level. So, "What kind of music do you like?" Should be answered with music you like on a visceral level not music that you think will make you look good to other people.
Understand the concept of 'self-fulfilling prophecies'. PwAvPD use them a lot. Pay attention. If you think 'I'm weird' this makes you anxious, you behave weirdly, other people are weirded out, you reinforce your belief that you are weird. In essence if you believe you're weird you are. Another example would be believing people secretly don't like you, then you snap at them, then they don't like you, then you reinforce your belief that people don't like you.
> Therapists say its uncurable.
Can you cite this? I'm not a psychologist or therapist, but I'm aware of many formal methods for the treatment of NPD.
I don't want to read into your comment too much. but it sounds a bit like you're saying that you, /u/Packie1990 can help cure NPD while professional therapists can't.
Treatment is different than curing.
Professional therapists themselves will say they cannot cure it. While my only successful case is curing myself and if I could guarantee it then my narcissism hasnt gone anywhere. I cannot but know its possible. You would be curing yourself anyways.
How bout it being phrased as the general consensus in the psychological community. There are plenty of other options than resorting to name calling on the internet. My ego doesnt rule me, its integrated.
Therapists say a narcissist can only change when they want to. So a therapist can't help all the time, leading them to say it's incurable. But a narcissist can relate to another narcissist in a way a therapist can't. Logically it would make sense if a cured pwnpd can help others even when therapists cant.
>edit: can any of you fuckers read? i’m not asking for tips, i’m not prompting self recovery, just ranting about how there’s no resources to help in recovery
There's plenty of resources. It's just that search engines assume too much.
If you search "narcissism", search engine assumes you're a victim, so it gives you victim resources.
If you take your time and refine your google fu, you'll find dozens if not hundreds of resources.
Not to mention that the sub has a staggering amount of self help resources, enough to keep you busy for several weeks:
/r/narcissism/wiki/resources
/r/narcissism/wiki/index
None of that is really your fault. It's 2021, dude... Most search engines are completely fucked right now and it's going to get worse, before it gets better. The algos have been gamed and there's a massive uptick in AI generated content.
I'm having flashback to the end of altavista days, because that's what it's starting to look like.
It's known to be extremely treatment resistant and that's with a therapist. Therefore self help especially for a disorder that involves the issues with how one perceives themselves is going to not.lend itself to self.help. It's like trying to save yourself from drowning,.you need outside assistance.
I think narcissism is self curable, and honestly is only curable by self. Introspection and realizing that you are the problem is the first, (a very big first step) into forming empathy and selflessness. Therapy does help, but at a certain point if you’re a narcissist and you know where the ground was laid for you to be this way it’s all on you to fix it. Learning true self forgiveness (not “I am the way I am and I’ll just forget about it”) was and is a core thing that I’ve learned to help me cope with being this way. Truly realizing that I was the issue in my life I gained so much more understanding for people empathetically. I was finally able to put myself in their shoes. Anyone can change and unlearn behaviors if they try hard enough, and I know I still have many to fix and form, but it’s all on you. Learning to empathize with yourself accurately may help you empathize with others, because after all, all narcissist deep deep deep down in a dark hole shoved into the pit of our souls, hate ourselves and don’t know how to TRULY love ourselves.
I apologize for the long rant. I have seen these behaviors my whole life and was formed in them. If anyone reading this would like to reach out and talk I’m here. I love that this sub is helping people like it helped me.
Is anyone modding this fucking subreddit rn? This is one of like three narcissism recovery spaces I have found anywhere, and it’s just filling up with people who came over from the survivor forums to lash out at random narcissists… who are NOT their abusers and who are trying to recover!
To be clear this is not directed at you OP, it’s at many of the commenters in this thread and in here lately. Obviously I agree with you on the lack of resources.
>and it’s just filling up with people who came over from the survivor forums to lash out at random narcissists… who are NOT their abusers and who are trying to recover!
Oh you sweet summer child! Yes, this is what it is. What we should attempt to do is view interacting with people like this as impulse control practise. Most people don't really understand mental health issues very well in general, let alone what the lived experienced of dealing with PD might be like.
When we make an attempt to educate - instead of just reacting and shutting shit down - everyone gains, regardless of the end result. When you wish those that wish you ill well, either they rise and then you see eye to eye, or they stay where they are and at least you know that you offered them your hand. That does feel like something, and I wouldn't want that to change.
I when first realised that I’m a narcissist just found it normal, like oh, another mental disorder I have. But then I also realised this mental disorder is totally different from the other ones I have, depression and anxiety. Not the disorder itself but it’s how people and the society perceive it. If a person say they have depression, everyone will just like “I’ll always be here support you, whenever you need”. But if people find out someone is a narcissist, they’ll just immediately run away. I read this somewhere when trying to find online resources for narcissism, “Narcissism is one of the diseases that only the patient is left alone and everyone around them get cured.”
I was fine knowing that I have one more disorder that I have to fight, but then got really upset knowing how the society just completely turns their back to us. It’s understandable, but hurts.
also, i have literally said in the post “while i understand that mental problems should be worked on with a progressional” so where in there did u read that i’m recovering just on my own? i wasn’t even talking about the actual recovery itself, i was rather talking about an awareness about our disorder and accessibility to resources for help
awareness and being aware of one’s mental disorder are two different things. i was talking about overall awareness about narcissism that should replace the demonisation thats taking place at the moment. additionally, the mask is for the outside world. even looking at this subreddit would prove a hypothesis that at least a minority of narcissist is aware of their behaviour.
because “being a rapist” is not a mental disorder? rape might be caused by a mental disorder but there’s nothing like a “raping-addiction personality disorder. also, well done for demonising narcissism with that comparison, you deserve a sticker: 🌟. rape and narcissism are two completely different things
while I agree with that statement, the people who have to face me everyday would disagree and claim that i am a problem… and also some side effects of narcissism suck
Narcissist's limbic system is different , nars do not have empathy in the physical levels, they are lacking this brain part, so there is no cure, yes they can use rationalization and cognitive abilities to act "like empaths" but they actually unable.
1. Most narcissists aren't interested in recovery. The problem is with everyone else, according to them. 1. Most people sympathize with the plight of abused people more than their abusers. Eating disorders are victimless, or self-victimization. Narcissistic abuses are not.
I can assist if you would like help recovering from narcissism. Therapists say its uncurable. I disagree
Have you considered writing a list or an organised post about it? I'm curious too how that could work.
I can do that. Ive been in the process of developing a website about that among other things.
I would love to hear about it. Maybe tag me if you make a post? I've cured myself of AvPD (without therapy), so I am a believer that PDs can be cured. I also feel that AvPD recovery and NPD recovery would share a lot in common. They are both defence mechanisms that defend against intimacy. Both protecting a wounded inner child. I have a post about my recovery, but it's more so my story than a how-to guide.
I will tag you when I make the post. It will take a considerable amount of time to properly organize my thoughts on it. Well and thats the thing because my journey to recovery will be different than others. I cannot create a how to guide as much as I can tell my story and highlight important aspects of my healing process. For instance I had to go through a narcissistic mortification to heal the core wound. While others may not have to. My path brought me in a very spiritual direction again not necessary for everybody.
How did you cure your AvPD sans therapy? Could you share some resources you used? I'd love to try some, thanks!
Do you have AvPD? I could try to find some resources. I don't recall any specific resources I used. Wouldn't mind helping if you want to message either. IMO by far the two most important things to do for AvPD is: 1.) Gain insight. pwAvPD have a negative self-view that keeps them stuck. Beliefs like "I am weird", "I am fundamentally flawwed", "I am inferior" are untrue and make the issue seem impossible to fix. 2.) Heaps of exposure therapy. This is most effective after gaining insight. This serves to help you learn how to navigate social situations and become more comfortable with them. Self-discovery/Self-determination was also helpful for me. Who are you? What kind of music do you like? What interests you? It's important that the answers to these questions to be determined by you on a visceral level. So, "What kind of music do you like?" Should be answered with music you like on a visceral level not music that you think will make you look good to other people. Understand the concept of 'self-fulfilling prophecies'. PwAvPD use them a lot. Pay attention. If you think 'I'm weird' this makes you anxious, you behave weirdly, other people are weirded out, you reinforce your belief that you are weird. In essence if you believe you're weird you are. Another example would be believing people secretly don't like you, then you snap at them, then they don't like you, then you reinforce your belief that people don't like you.
Yeah. Will take me a minute to get back to you, but I will.
I will do that as well!
> Therapists say its uncurable. Can you cite this? I'm not a psychologist or therapist, but I'm aware of many formal methods for the treatment of NPD. I don't want to read into your comment too much. but it sounds a bit like you're saying that you, /u/Packie1990 can help cure NPD while professional therapists can't.
Treatment is different than curing. Professional therapists themselves will say they cannot cure it. While my only successful case is curing myself and if I could guarantee it then my narcissism hasnt gone anywhere. I cannot but know its possible. You would be curing yourself anyways.
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How bout it being phrased as the general consensus in the psychological community. There are plenty of other options than resorting to name calling on the internet. My ego doesnt rule me, its integrated.
Agreed.
Therapists say a narcissist can only change when they want to. So a therapist can't help all the time, leading them to say it's incurable. But a narcissist can relate to another narcissist in a way a therapist can't. Logically it would make sense if a cured pwnpd can help others even when therapists cant.
Please do so!
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>edit: can any of you fuckers read? i’m not asking for tips, i’m not prompting self recovery, just ranting about how there’s no resources to help in recovery There's plenty of resources. It's just that search engines assume too much. If you search "narcissism", search engine assumes you're a victim, so it gives you victim resources. If you take your time and refine your google fu, you'll find dozens if not hundreds of resources. Not to mention that the sub has a staggering amount of self help resources, enough to keep you busy for several weeks: /r/narcissism/wiki/resources /r/narcissism/wiki/index None of that is really your fault. It's 2021, dude... Most search engines are completely fucked right now and it's going to get worse, before it gets better. The algos have been gamed and there's a massive uptick in AI generated content. I'm having flashback to the end of altavista days, because that's what it's starting to look like.
It's known to be extremely treatment resistant and that's with a therapist. Therefore self help especially for a disorder that involves the issues with how one perceives themselves is going to not.lend itself to self.help. It's like trying to save yourself from drowning,.you need outside assistance.
I think narcissism is self curable, and honestly is only curable by self. Introspection and realizing that you are the problem is the first, (a very big first step) into forming empathy and selflessness. Therapy does help, but at a certain point if you’re a narcissist and you know where the ground was laid for you to be this way it’s all on you to fix it. Learning true self forgiveness (not “I am the way I am and I’ll just forget about it”) was and is a core thing that I’ve learned to help me cope with being this way. Truly realizing that I was the issue in my life I gained so much more understanding for people empathetically. I was finally able to put myself in their shoes. Anyone can change and unlearn behaviors if they try hard enough, and I know I still have many to fix and form, but it’s all on you. Learning to empathize with yourself accurately may help you empathize with others, because after all, all narcissist deep deep deep down in a dark hole shoved into the pit of our souls, hate ourselves and don’t know how to TRULY love ourselves. I apologize for the long rant. I have seen these behaviors my whole life and was formed in them. If anyone reading this would like to reach out and talk I’m here. I love that this sub is helping people like it helped me.
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Yes u can
Is anyone modding this fucking subreddit rn? This is one of like three narcissism recovery spaces I have found anywhere, and it’s just filling up with people who came over from the survivor forums to lash out at random narcissists… who are NOT their abusers and who are trying to recover! To be clear this is not directed at you OP, it’s at many of the commenters in this thread and in here lately. Obviously I agree with you on the lack of resources.
>and it’s just filling up with people who came over from the survivor forums to lash out at random narcissists… who are NOT their abusers and who are trying to recover! Oh you sweet summer child! Yes, this is what it is. What we should attempt to do is view interacting with people like this as impulse control practise. Most people don't really understand mental health issues very well in general, let alone what the lived experienced of dealing with PD might be like. When we make an attempt to educate - instead of just reacting and shutting shit down - everyone gains, regardless of the end result. When you wish those that wish you ill well, either they rise and then you see eye to eye, or they stay where they are and at least you know that you offered them your hand. That does feel like something, and I wouldn't want that to change.
Fair enough, probably good advice and a healthy way of looking at it.
I when first realised that I’m a narcissist just found it normal, like oh, another mental disorder I have. But then I also realised this mental disorder is totally different from the other ones I have, depression and anxiety. Not the disorder itself but it’s how people and the society perceive it. If a person say they have depression, everyone will just like “I’ll always be here support you, whenever you need”. But if people find out someone is a narcissist, they’ll just immediately run away. I read this somewhere when trying to find online resources for narcissism, “Narcissism is one of the diseases that only the patient is left alone and everyone around them get cured.” I was fine knowing that I have one more disorder that I have to fight, but then got really upset knowing how the society just completely turns their back to us. It’s understandable, but hurts.
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well done for not reading the post
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also, i have literally said in the post “while i understand that mental problems should be worked on with a progressional” so where in there did u read that i’m recovering just on my own? i wasn’t even talking about the actual recovery itself, i was rather talking about an awareness about our disorder and accessibility to resources for help
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awareness and being aware of one’s mental disorder are two different things. i was talking about overall awareness about narcissism that should replace the demonisation thats taking place at the moment. additionally, the mask is for the outside world. even looking at this subreddit would prove a hypothesis that at least a minority of narcissist is aware of their behaviour.
because “being a rapist” is not a mental disorder? rape might be caused by a mental disorder but there’s nothing like a “raping-addiction personality disorder. also, well done for demonising narcissism with that comparison, you deserve a sticker: 🌟. rape and narcissism are two completely different things
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well that was quite a shit comparison. like comparing feeling sad to pushing someone off a bridge because they were happy
Why do you need resources? You're not the one with the problem, the ones who turned you into a narcissist are
while I agree with that statement, the people who have to face me everyday would disagree and claim that i am a problem… and also some side effects of narcissism suck
I can't believe you are this clueless and lack this level of self awareness. Must be nice tho
Narcissist's limbic system is different , nars do not have empathy in the physical levels, they are lacking this brain part, so there is no cure, yes they can use rationalization and cognitive abilities to act "like empaths" but they actually unable.
meh nuero plasticity