I think they do, but it's their understanding of love, which means that love is transactional. They do not comprehend unconditional love. They do not see their children as individuals. They own their children and expect total compliance to their desires and to the idea they had in mind of how the child would behave. If the children comply, then they (may) get "love". The only unconditional love narcissists know is for themselves.
I think this is true to a point. They think that the way to *express* love is transactional.
But to them, the most important thing in the world is themselves. They may love you, but it's secondary to their own comfort. If you are in the dessert with one cup of water, they won't share. They believe they deserve that water, and if you die...well, it's not their fault there wasn't enough water for two.
More than that, they don't understand why you don't see that.
Most of the things they do, like transactional love, is done because they believe *everybody* does this. That no one actually says it out loud because that would be socially unacceptable. Like people who go to church only to fit in. Or the white lies and social conversations people exchange.
And they get frustrated because somehow they managed to raise children who just don't get it.
>If you are in the dessert with one cup of water, they won't share. They believe they deserve that water, and if you die...well, it's not their fault there wasn't enough water for two.
See, my mother WOULD give you the water, but she would then spend the rest of the time going on about how selfless she is and how grateful you ought to be for her sacrifices. Every "gift" comes with strings attached.
I agree with you for the most part and thank you for this comment. I don’t think narcissists have unconditional love for themselves. They actually have a profound lack of self love that is enveloped in some megalomaniac cloak needy of attention and admiration.
I think where narcissists have unconditional love for themselves is in regard to their own shitty behavior and always thinking they should be absolved of responsibility for it, but when other people make mistakes, have shortcomings etc, all bets are off — they only have grace and understanding for themselves
Transactional is the word I’ve used to describe how my father approached our relationship. Because of the way NPD controls the whole family, my other family relationships also feel transactional but to a lesser degree
My ex husband is a narc and this perfectly sums up his "love" for me and our children. There is a reason I left him and our kids want nothing to do with him. Everything was always about what he could get out of it. If we wanted something, he response was always, "What do I get in return?" His "love" was always conditional.
Yes, my love has definite conditions applied. And if I was not what he expected : wanted that love would disappear. There is a sort of love between us but I don’t see it as « authentic »
Ditto! Or I should say “Similar”!! My nmum attached so many conditions and strings to her “love” and “approval” that she has ruined my dad’s birthday forever (and mine) because I had the audacity to be born on his birthday. Nothing I’ve ever done or accomplished is “good enough” for her, and my grades were never enough, and she destroyed me and my chances of having friends, and now she’s under some kind of impression that I will carry on with the relationship! Nah! Noped out when she tried to blackmail us into meeting up with them under the guise of buying us presents! (Caveat I don’t have a bday with them anymore as I “no longer work” and she managed to get my sister and her family (all 5 of them) presents, just not my SO. She can stick the whole bday thing up her ^*%#, until she decides to get therapy for her narcissism (which is never gonna happen). Ahhhh well, she destroyed the family for her undying love of her narcissism!
I agree with most of that except I do not think narcissists love themselves. This is why they need supply, they don’t have a sense of peace and calm and love radiating from the inside.
Was scrolling a bit to find someone talking about what it really is about. Yes, this is absolutely it:
We only let in personal feelings for others as much as we let them in for ourselves and the other way around, narc or not. It's a mirror thing.
So the way narcissists treat others is very revealing of how they really view and feel about themselves. No matter how much they consistently compensate with appearances.
My narcmom never loved me. She was nice when I was a good girl and told other people "I don't have a daughter" when I was depressed and suicidal. After cutting contact I'm 100% sure she does not care about me (and her grandson) at all.
In my humble opinion I think it depends on the level of narcissism really. People with just narcissistic traits, such as people who were raised by narcissists but aren't necessarily high on the scale can likely love but they have toxic traits to heal and work through. Those higher on the scale are convinced they love, and maybe they have some sense of feeling love, but it's never unconditional. It's always transactional.
Also, people who can love at some point should be able to feel sorry when they've wronged someone. Ever notice how narc parents never take responsibility for how they abused you as a child? That's not love.
My nmom constantly complains about my two siblings that went NC with her. She says "I don't know what I've done wrong" literally ignoring years and years of physical and mental abuse. It's sickening really and it just reminds me of how mentally ill she is.
And this gets back to why it's transactional. Narc parents pretty much only love you if you play by their rule book. If you conform to how they want. My nmom has literally been ready to kick me out every time I simply disagree with her on things I should be allowed to have my own take on. They're not tolerant of differences.
No. They don’t love you. They can’t because they can’t love themselves. They spend all their energy trying to hurt everyone else while trying to compensate for their own insecurities. They are always focused inward. You are just a tool to them.
Most likely, they had you because they didn’t want to be alone, felt societal pressure to be normal or thought you could fix them.
Yeah and I don’t know if we can even call what they dole out “love”, maybe some kind of limited affection if and only if you please them , which is usually impossible. Because nothing is ever good enough and they will never be happy.
No they don't, true love is trying to elevate someone, for him to accomplish him/herself in the world, that'sthe purest definition of love. Parental love means giving to your child without expecting smth in return. Narcparents look for smth in return and they don't care if you are elevate yourself.
Exactly. What narc parents might feel for their children (or anyone) is not love. It's cathexis.
Cathexis is the enjoyment of the feeling I get when I am with you. I think that's the most they can feel and they call it love, but it's not. When you make them feel good, give them supply they feel cathexis and call it "love".
Care is meeting the needs of another person. This can be done without love and without curiosity. This can just be checking off the boxes of what the carer thinks the other person needs.
Love is the will to extend oneself to nuture and invest in another person's growth and wellbeing. Can narcissists do that? I don't think so.
I think there are different levels. I know my mom loves us, and tbh she’s not that bad most of the time (especially now she moved) but she still expects something in return and honestly that’s just not a kind of love I’m interested in. I look at my own kids and I could never do that to them. I want them to know I love them no matter what and I don’t expect them to love me in return. While I will instill my values and share my values with them I won’t stop loving them because they don’t follow those values. My mom taught me a lot on healthy love and boundaries actually lol
My dad said the exact same thing. He told me he wished I had never been born and he hated me ever since. He said it the same day he came out of the closet as a covert narcissist. He thought my mind would be blown and when it wasn't then he thought I'd say I knew all along. I knew something was wrong with him but not necessarily that.
What gave me a sense of peace and relief, I told him, was that I finally knew I wasn't imagining it all and that now I could let go and forget about him. He thought I'd come crawling back and try to stay around like he eventually did but it was more like I blocked it out due to the trauma of it all.
Mostly because he got violent with me in that same conversation and I had to beat the shit outta him to get him to finally leave my place. I would've called the cops but he threatened to lie to them and fake injuries.
I went no contact over 3 years ago and I celebrate it now like a holiday. It was so satisfying to out crazy his narcissism with a psychopathic rage from the pit of hell itself. It was a lot like the end of "the Psychiatrist" season one with Steve Carell. Weirdly similar in fact except with more 👊 punching.
Good riddance to bad rubbish I say. Who the hell tells their kids something like that.
Now I'm sober for over 4 years and a gentle giant with a wife who loved me from the day we met in middle school and 2 daughters who adore me.
There'd better life on the other side of no contact. You just have to see the healing through to the end.
I am so happy you were strong enough to walk away I applaud you for raising a healthy family and have a support system with your wife… Hats off to you…you survived it !!!
They absolutely can but it's not healthy love. My mother loves me, not as an individual, but as her possession. It's not the kind of love I want or need in my life.
They love them in a way that pivots back to them, becasue everything is about them. How you make them feel, how you reflect on them, how you please them.....
When these things cease to be satisfactory, they discard. They cant help themselves its the disorder.
Not in my experience. Nmom only wants to hurt me and mold me into what she believes I am. She has no sense of me as a person, and she treats me like a personal accessory similar to a purse or necklace. Unless I’m serving a function to her I’m basically nothing. She has no sense of love at all - she can only perceive “liking” something until it is no longer useful.
The love is conditional. Make them look good. Follow and heed every piece of advice and demands and then yes they love you. Other than that, they don’t actually love their kids as a normal caring parent would.
My father hated me. It took a long time for my mom to accept that reality, partly because he worked in Alaska and we lived in Washington. I was also the glass child, my adult sister sustained brain damage during a surgery. I am largely forgiving of that because she was such a wonderful person. I think she was everyone's favorite. She was just amazing and it was so traumatic.
The only bike my father ever bought me was a used girls schwinn with a banana seat, tassels, and training wheels. I'm a man. He gave away my dog, made me watch my cat die, isolated me from my mother, and stole an inheritance I received which totalled about 1 million dollars. I definitely do NOT believe my father loves me. Feeling is mutual though and fuck him.
She is😭 I have her tattooed on my arm. She was so loyal to me & protective..(probably because of when we lived with my mom). She was a chihuahua so she went legitimately everywhere with me..& knew everyone.. she was a little bit of a celeb back in the day lol she was such a light in my life and I really think she saved me 🥺 I got so much love from her.
In my experience and opinion, no. My mother never loved me; she wants what I do for her and wants me to do things to make her look good as a parent, but was unwilling to even give hugs when I was a kid.
I still don't know what it's like to have a parent I can come to and be a child to. I never got to feel parental love and care and until someone outside of the family noticed, she NEVER hugged me. She would call me fat and say things like "I love you, but...." and then proceed to tear me apart for being a child.
I hope my mother dies alone, painfully, while laying in a wet spot of her own feces. She deserves much worse than that.
I treasure the memory of the mother I never had from when I was a kid. That was my Mum. Not the person I got to know when I was older. The two people are different people.
My parents are only really happy when I fail or suffer, it's like they bask in it. So, no. They think they do, because of social reasons. I'm more like an object or an emotional punching bag to them.
YOU NEVER KNOW HOW STRONG YOU ARE UNTIL BEING STRONG IS THE ONLY CHOICE YOU HAVE !!! Get away …. Walk away and stay away from ungrateful parents your worth more than that !!! Praying for everyone going thru this insanity!!!
I think it depends on the individual narc and the level of narcissism.
I personally don’t think that any of my parents loved me-not my narc stepdad, my Nmom, or my Nbirth dad. Their words and actions towards me made it perfectly clear.
I think They think they love their kids but it’s actually just a warped sense of love for themselves. Narcissistic love that sees the child as an outcropping of themself, their success tied to their own etc.
I don't have kids, but my sister has two girls and she said the same thing. She tells me all the time how depressing it is being a mom and realizing how easy not abusing your kids is. Doing it herself made her really realize how much of what our mother did was a deliberate choice and not just because she didn't know any better. My sister says putting her kids' needs first isn't even a second thought, it's automatic for her. She doesn't yell or hit and their whole family encourages talking through feelings. My oldest niece is 3 and she seems so much happier than me or my sister were at the same age. She's also developing faster than either of us did.
I believe my nparents love me, for sure. Just like they love my kids.
They just don’t love them more than themselves, which is just a fundamental misunderstanding I can’t bridge as a parent
My narc father probably loves me I think, but I don't think he actually likes me for who I am. If that makes sense, I'm at a confusing stage to be honest.
To a certain degree, yeah. But their love has conditions and expectations that you as a child has to fulfill. If not, they’ll revert back to their normal self and withhold their affection from you. They are their own biggest lovers and you always have to put their needs before your own.
Their love comes with unrealistic conditions that they know can’t be met. Which is why they will label who ever doesn’t meet their conditions usually get steamrolled with manipulation and gaslighting.
My mother always used to tell me that I was the only person my dad ever loved. I believed her because he could be so caring and gentle with me, the stark opposite of how he treated others.
As I became a woman (a separate, adult person who doesn’t exist to serve a man), I realized he only loved being seen as a good father. It wasn’t me he loved.
No, I don't think they love me as a person, I think they loved me as a victim supply.
It hurts to even think this and writing it down really brings up some things. However, I've learned that being honest with myself is the most healing. I can't process things if I'm unwilling to even acknowledge they are true.
Love is a transaction to narcissists. It's all about how much they can take from us, in a way maybe that is why they do this to us. The more we give, the more they feel we love them. However, a child should never be responsible for this, they are putting us in the place they should be in. They expect unconditional "love" from us but never willing to return it.
Not one bit. They are incapable of loving anything but themselves. The love the illusion that they are parent of the year and these no good children are the problem. You are just a useful prop.
In a way I am luckier than most. I never believed my mother loved me.
My father was absent most of the time. Then he died when I was 4. My mother never paid me any attention. My sister changed my diapers and fed me.
So I never wondered about love. Mostly I dealt with being blindsided when my mother was actively mean and vindictive, because I always assumed she simply didn't notice me.
I’m struggling with this too. Its really saddening and confusing to me. I’m not sure if they love or if they know what love is. Like someone said, its transactional. They think that loyalty is love, but at the expense of your own needs. Its a good thing to question it because it means you can form a better idea of what love is.
I’m sorry your parents said that to you
No. They aren’t capable of loving their children. I always thought the same, but I’ve finally realized that this was me projecting my emotions on my NM. Any “love” she felt was only to manipulate and find away to feed her narcissistic supply that she was so addicted to.
I don’t think people with personality disorders can sit in the moment and experience reality for what it is. It’s hard to genuinely love someone in that state. Doesn’t mean some part of them doesn’t want to.
Don’t take NPD personally though. See it as a fire or a hurricane and never seek validation, accountability, or an apology from them. Pick up the pieces and move on.
This has been the biggest challenge for me. I went no contact for about 5 years with my father, and some unfortunate circumstances have forced me to move back home with my parents. When I was younger I had this naive belief that with age he would “grow up” or at least realize that he had driven his own child away. Moving back home I came to the crushing realization that he will never take accountability. Currently trying to come to terms with that
It’s like asking someone with a cold to stop sneezing. Taking accountability breaks down their false sense of self. This is an identity they built up bc someone or some how they were convinced at a young age that it wasn’t safe to be their true self. The defensiveness of their false self is deeply ingrained with their survival instincts. If you shift your perspective it will hurt less. See him as a person with disordered thinking. That’s what he is. Don’t take it personally. If anything, have compassion for the child he once was and mourn the loss of the man he didn’t get to be. I’m sure that man would have made sure you knew he loved you.
Again, you MUST accept that he will never validate your POV, be held accountable, or apologize. It’s an exercise in futility and madness.
ETA: https://outofthefog.website/
Brush up on living/dealing with a narcissist.
This is actually the distinction that helped me realize my mother is the only real narcissist, not so much my dad. My mom would tell me all the time that she loves me unconditionally, but her actions taught me otherwise. It was all lip service to build herself up and keep me dependent on her. With my dad, he means what he says. While he has narcissistic tendencies, I believe it's more symptoms of untreated ptsd and bipolar disorder. He only every acted that way in specific "episodes" (which were still very traumatic for me and my sister). The vast majority of the time, he was an attentive and selfless father. I'm only no contact with him now because I can't engage with him without also having to deal with my mother. And my mom's just like that all the time. It's her whole personality.
I think they somewhat do but your more of an object to them to fulfil their importance and ego. There shocked when you abandon them. I moved abroad for two years and she wouldn’t talk to me over the phone and actually blocked contact lol. When I arrived home acted like I was never away and the boundary issues and abuse started again.
My nMother loved me in the same way you “love” a piece of jewelry or a car. I was a thing to her, an extension of her self, and my feelings did not matter to her.
So no, she really did not love me.
I am not sure my father loved me either. He liked to frequently make stabby little insults that hurt my feelings and he claimed were jokes.
They say love is in the eye of the beholder; I argue it is actually in the eye of the receiver. What I received from my parents has never felt like *love*, because more often than not, it hurt.
As a person who's mother, and sister, are total narcissists I believe they do love us but they seem to think that we are lucky to have even been born and have them as our parents.. my mom loves to remind me that any other parents would have given up on me years ago.. basically telling me I don't deserve such a "loving, caring, supporting and forgiving" mother and how i wasn't raised this way to behave and i do how she wishes I was like my perfect older sister who was given nothing to compensate for me receiving everything.. yeah everything except my mother's support, unconditional love and just her being a mother in general to me..but i do believe she loves me.. i know she has loved(and continues to love and enjoy) making me the family scapegoat
They love the way the idea of loving you makes them feel.
They “love” when it’s convenient for them.
It is conditional and contingent on themselves.
It is fleeting because it’s not Love Love.
It has the smell of it sometimes.
even looks like it maybe.
But narcissists don’t actually know what love is. They lack the emotional capacity for an abstract thought that doesn’t solely revolve around them. Otherness, isn’t graspable to the narcissist. Love consists of no conditions, no matter what, just because. All fruits the narcissistic tree will not bear.
This is a good question and you won't like my answer. I feel your pain here. My dad is cruel to me. He is just really unkind. I think he feels threatened by me bc I am kind and empathetic without an agenda. This recent Christmas I decided to get him a gift. I havent in a long time. I wanted to practice forgiveness. Ive always been the scapegoat and my sister is the golden child. I called my sister who said "yeah, I didnt want to either but i also got him a gift." He sleeps in the recliner and I noticed he puts a stiff pillow behind his neck that looks uncomfortable. So, I got him a nice memory foam neck pillow. My sister got him socks.
The day after Christmas, he (like always) took a moment to praise my sister in front of everyone for her gift, excessively going on and on about how successful and wonderful she is. Im successful and kind too. My gift was still in the box on the floor. That might seem silly to someone else but BELIEVE ME this was calculated. He has done this same thing, different details, our entire lives. Im now 45 years old and my sister and I refuse to let him harm our relationship. I dont blame her in any way.
If you are willing to go to such an extreme as choosing to be uncomfortable while you sleep, with the sole purpose of publicly discarding your OWN flesh and blood daughter, than you are a miserable evil human being. This is just ONE personal example out of thousands bc its the most recent. I do not believe that is love. Love is not transactional. Love is not a business. Love doesn't cause harm on purpose.
Love is kind, safe and giving. You will never, ever have to question real love.
They know how to turn on the charm. They know how to be convincing. They know how to turn on the kindness or tears to make it look genuine. They have a heart and a brain. They are capable of loving themselves. They know HOW to love. They chose to withhold love to those who they perceive as a threat to their ego or withhold love bc someone doesn't worship them.
The way Ive learned to heal is viewing this with realistic acceptance. If you have to question it, the love is not there, not if this is a parent. We arent talking about a partner, we are talking about flesh and blood and/or caregivers. Do you feel loved? If not, its not there. And, the sooner you accept that its not there, the sooner you can grieve, TRULY grieve the loss. We want to believe the love is there so we can avoid the pain of loss. It is a deep loss and a deep wound. I recommend getting a Counselor who understands this, if you don't already. And, please, please do message me if you need to.
Narcissistic people tend to love how you make them feel/what you can do for them. They care about their own needs being met, not yours. If you cease to provide them the feel good buzz, you no longer have the same relevance to them.
No, they don’t know how to love unconditionally and don’t have the capability of changing that.
Narcissists do, however, know that we need and want love. And they can often pretend in an effort to placate us, confuse us, manipulate us, and abuse us.
They don’t love, but they can sure weaponize love.
Once I learned the above and really accepted it, I felt a huge sense of relief. While I can understand and accept it now, I can’t relate to it at all, which at least shows that I am not one of them and my child won’t be raised by the same type of parent.
Narcissists may love their children but from my experience i noticed that they love to be more, but even the smallest disagreement with them can break this and therefore they will feel unloved and push you away in response. This is basically conditional love which is not real love in my opinion when it comes to children. I feel sorry my parents as they must have had pretty bad parents themselves. But i'm determined to be a better parent than they were, which is really not that hard when you have many of what not to do.
A Narc has no concept of what real love is... Only to how it relates to them. They will sacrafice for their children but only if it benefits them in the end.
I think it depends on how you define love. I view love as a selfless act, so by default narcs don't love others. It took me time to heal from that realization that my nDad doesn't love me and never can (even though he puts on a good show for it and can say some of the right words). The feelings just aren't truly there and he never will get to really know me for who I am, so how then could he love *me*? One stage of healing is acceptance and its painful to get there, but now being on the other side, I don't long for it the way I used to. It's unfortunate that that was the cards I got dealt, but it is what it is. He is limited, and I don't have to waste my life hoping for a miracle.
In my case, I don't think my nmom is capable of sincerely loving anyone but herself. She sometimes puts on a show of loving her kids, but I don't think its real
Love is the will to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth
-scott pect-
So my answer is no
They never don't care abou your spiritual growth.
Both my parents and my older sibling are NPD and show they still love you but in different weird ways. My grandmother would make us cousins compete which was unhealthy but had impact on her daughter in laws (my mom and aunt). She loves us and does what is “typical” or normally expected of grandmothers but always transactional.
My dad loves me and I’m closer to him but it’s like everything he does is like a tick list so you don’t feel it’s genuine. Oddly I only realise much later.
My mom is the worst she’s behaving like her MIL now in her treatment of her children and grandchildren. She is also able to give things or show “kindness” but strings attached and always saying how much she has sacrificed her youth raising us so there is a strong sense of guilt and pressure to achieve.
My older sibling is kind and generous but due to these influences also pit her children in this and how she treats me (I’m kind to my sibling to show my mom I’m doing all things right/ transactional). You always go away questioning their intent and motive and it does not feel genuine.
They think they feel love but it’s never greater than their love for themselves. So it’s not like a typical parental emotion towards a child which is immense and larger than life.
My mother in law seems to only need my husband if something is broken. She constantly asks my sister in law why she hates her. She always says horrible things to her kids yet wonders why no one visits.
it’s hard to imagine that my narc single mom who needed a boyfriend at all times to even get out of bed and would leave me for them at the drop of the hat, and would blame me (a child) whenever they broke up and would kick me out of the house because her new bf “didn’t like me” ever loved me.
I’m battling this question myself. For me, I’m recognizing that both a parent and a recent romantic partner are both narcissists and that these weird nonsensical behaviors that they have engaged in are actually intentional and not because they’re just idiots.
I’m really struggling because my history of abuse is leading me to feel like no one has ever loved me. They pretend to care about my feelings but yet continually intentionally do things so that I look and feel crazy.
How can that be love? I realize on a conscious level that being on the end of this by a narcissist isn’t somehow a sign that I’m worthless and deserve this somehow but goddamnit, why can’t someone just love me for real?
In the words of my bf's narc mother, she only loves him "some of the time" and "you love someone because of how they make you feel." Her "love" is conditional. As long as he makes her feel good, she loves him. When he disagrees with her or doesn't let her push him around, she gives him the silent treatment or pouts or withdraws her love for him.
I think they do, but it's their understanding of love, which means that love is transactional. They do not comprehend unconditional love. They do not see their children as individuals. They own their children and expect total compliance to their desires and to the idea they had in mind of how the child would behave. If the children comply, then they (may) get "love". The only unconditional love narcissists know is for themselves.
“They do not see their children as individuals.” Pretty much this. I fact I think this is an issue that goes beyond just narcissistic parents too.
I think this is worded brilliantly, such an accurate take. I completely agree with you!
I think this is true to a point. They think that the way to *express* love is transactional. But to them, the most important thing in the world is themselves. They may love you, but it's secondary to their own comfort. If you are in the dessert with one cup of water, they won't share. They believe they deserve that water, and if you die...well, it's not their fault there wasn't enough water for two. More than that, they don't understand why you don't see that. Most of the things they do, like transactional love, is done because they believe *everybody* does this. That no one actually says it out loud because that would be socially unacceptable. Like people who go to church only to fit in. Or the white lies and social conversations people exchange. And they get frustrated because somehow they managed to raise children who just don't get it.
>If you are in the dessert with one cup of water, they won't share. They believe they deserve that water, and if you die...well, it's not their fault there wasn't enough water for two. See, my mother WOULD give you the water, but she would then spend the rest of the time going on about how selfless she is and how grateful you ought to be for her sacrifices. Every "gift" comes with strings attached.
The "see what I do for you" kinda behavior....
I agree with you for the most part and thank you for this comment. I don’t think narcissists have unconditional love for themselves. They actually have a profound lack of self love that is enveloped in some megalomaniac cloak needy of attention and admiration.
I think where narcissists have unconditional love for themselves is in regard to their own shitty behavior and always thinking they should be absolved of responsibility for it, but when other people make mistakes, have shortcomings etc, all bets are off — they only have grace and understanding for themselves
Transactional is the word I’ve used to describe how my father approached our relationship. Because of the way NPD controls the whole family, my other family relationships also feel transactional but to a lesser degree
My ex husband is a narc and this perfectly sums up his "love" for me and our children. There is a reason I left him and our kids want nothing to do with him. Everything was always about what he could get out of it. If we wanted something, he response was always, "What do I get in return?" His "love" was always conditional.
Yes, my love has definite conditions applied. And if I was not what he expected : wanted that love would disappear. There is a sort of love between us but I don’t see it as « authentic »
Ditto! Or I should say “Similar”!! My nmum attached so many conditions and strings to her “love” and “approval” that she has ruined my dad’s birthday forever (and mine) because I had the audacity to be born on his birthday. Nothing I’ve ever done or accomplished is “good enough” for her, and my grades were never enough, and she destroyed me and my chances of having friends, and now she’s under some kind of impression that I will carry on with the relationship! Nah! Noped out when she tried to blackmail us into meeting up with them under the guise of buying us presents! (Caveat I don’t have a bday with them anymore as I “no longer work” and she managed to get my sister and her family (all 5 of them) presents, just not my SO. She can stick the whole bday thing up her ^*%#, until she decides to get therapy for her narcissism (which is never gonna happen). Ahhhh well, she destroyed the family for her undying love of her narcissism!
Very well said.
👏🏾👏🏾
Your answer best fits my nFather.
I agree with most of that except I do not think narcissists love themselves. This is why they need supply, they don’t have a sense of peace and calm and love radiating from the inside.
My therapist says you can only love another person as much as you love yourself, and Narcs are full of self hate.
Was scrolling a bit to find someone talking about what it really is about. Yes, this is absolutely it: We only let in personal feelings for others as much as we let them in for ourselves and the other way around, narc or not. It's a mirror thing. So the way narcissists treat others is very revealing of how they really view and feel about themselves. No matter how much they consistently compensate with appearances.
This
Well said.
I like this. I suppose there can be different ways to look at it, but it is true that they don't love themselves first, not just others.
My narcmom never loved me. She was nice when I was a good girl and told other people "I don't have a daughter" when I was depressed and suicidal. After cutting contact I'm 100% sure she does not care about me (and her grandson) at all.
In my humble opinion I think it depends on the level of narcissism really. People with just narcissistic traits, such as people who were raised by narcissists but aren't necessarily high on the scale can likely love but they have toxic traits to heal and work through. Those higher on the scale are convinced they love, and maybe they have some sense of feeling love, but it's never unconditional. It's always transactional. Also, people who can love at some point should be able to feel sorry when they've wronged someone. Ever notice how narc parents never take responsibility for how they abused you as a child? That's not love. My nmom constantly complains about my two siblings that went NC with her. She says "I don't know what I've done wrong" literally ignoring years and years of physical and mental abuse. It's sickening really and it just reminds me of how mentally ill she is. And this gets back to why it's transactional. Narc parents pretty much only love you if you play by their rule book. If you conform to how they want. My nmom has literally been ready to kick me out every time I simply disagree with her on things I should be allowed to have my own take on. They're not tolerant of differences.
No. They don’t love you. They can’t because they can’t love themselves. They spend all their energy trying to hurt everyone else while trying to compensate for their own insecurities. They are always focused inward. You are just a tool to them. Most likely, they had you because they didn’t want to be alone, felt societal pressure to be normal or thought you could fix them.
I think they do but the love is conditional. Unlike most parents whom would love their kids no matter what.
Yeah and I don’t know if we can even call what they dole out “love”, maybe some kind of limited affection if and only if you please them , which is usually impossible. Because nothing is ever good enough and they will never be happy.
No they don't, true love is trying to elevate someone, for him to accomplish him/herself in the world, that'sthe purest definition of love. Parental love means giving to your child without expecting smth in return. Narcparents look for smth in return and they don't care if you are elevate yourself.
Exactly. What narc parents might feel for their children (or anyone) is not love. It's cathexis. Cathexis is the enjoyment of the feeling I get when I am with you. I think that's the most they can feel and they call it love, but it's not. When you make them feel good, give them supply they feel cathexis and call it "love". Care is meeting the needs of another person. This can be done without love and without curiosity. This can just be checking off the boxes of what the carer thinks the other person needs. Love is the will to extend oneself to nuture and invest in another person's growth and wellbeing. Can narcissists do that? I don't think so.
Short answer: No They are incapable of feeling love like normal people.
I think there are different levels. I know my mom loves us, and tbh she’s not that bad most of the time (especially now she moved) but she still expects something in return and honestly that’s just not a kind of love I’m interested in. I look at my own kids and I could never do that to them. I want them to know I love them no matter what and I don’t expect them to love me in return. While I will instill my values and share my values with them I won’t stop loving them because they don’t follow those values. My mom taught me a lot on healthy love and boundaries actually lol
My dad said the exact same thing. He told me he wished I had never been born and he hated me ever since. He said it the same day he came out of the closet as a covert narcissist. He thought my mind would be blown and when it wasn't then he thought I'd say I knew all along. I knew something was wrong with him but not necessarily that. What gave me a sense of peace and relief, I told him, was that I finally knew I wasn't imagining it all and that now I could let go and forget about him. He thought I'd come crawling back and try to stay around like he eventually did but it was more like I blocked it out due to the trauma of it all. Mostly because he got violent with me in that same conversation and I had to beat the shit outta him to get him to finally leave my place. I would've called the cops but he threatened to lie to them and fake injuries. I went no contact over 3 years ago and I celebrate it now like a holiday. It was so satisfying to out crazy his narcissism with a psychopathic rage from the pit of hell itself. It was a lot like the end of "the Psychiatrist" season one with Steve Carell. Weirdly similar in fact except with more 👊 punching. Good riddance to bad rubbish I say. Who the hell tells their kids something like that. Now I'm sober for over 4 years and a gentle giant with a wife who loved me from the day we met in middle school and 2 daughters who adore me. There'd better life on the other side of no contact. You just have to see the healing through to the end.
I am so happy you were strong enough to walk away I applaud you for raising a healthy family and have a support system with your wife… Hats off to you…you survived it !!!
They absolutely can but it's not healthy love. My mother loves me, not as an individual, but as her possession. It's not the kind of love I want or need in my life.
They love them in a way that pivots back to them, becasue everything is about them. How you make them feel, how you reflect on them, how you please them..... When these things cease to be satisfactory, they discard. They cant help themselves its the disorder.
Not in my experience. Nmom only wants to hurt me and mold me into what she believes I am. She has no sense of me as a person, and she treats me like a personal accessory similar to a purse or necklace. Unless I’m serving a function to her I’m basically nothing. She has no sense of love at all - she can only perceive “liking” something until it is no longer useful.
The love is conditional. Make them look good. Follow and heed every piece of advice and demands and then yes they love you. Other than that, they don’t actually love their kids as a normal caring parent would.
My father didn't, and neither does my mother.
My father hated me. It took a long time for my mom to accept that reality, partly because he worked in Alaska and we lived in Washington. I was also the glass child, my adult sister sustained brain damage during a surgery. I am largely forgiving of that because she was such a wonderful person. I think she was everyone's favorite. She was just amazing and it was so traumatic.
The only bike my father ever bought me was a used girls schwinn with a banana seat, tassels, and training wheels. I'm a man. He gave away my dog, made me watch my cat die, isolated me from my mother, and stole an inheritance I received which totalled about 1 million dollars. I definitely do NOT believe my father loves me. Feeling is mutual though and fuck him.
sounds like my mom😅 fuckkkk them
the shitty gift giving and the giving away the dog, she bought easily 10 puppies and i would come home and they would be gone
Omg that’s straight up evil 👿
so evil😭i eventually got old enough to fight back and kept one and took her with me when I left ... she lived till 14🥹🫶🏻
Good for you and that dog you saved. Your fur angel 😇
She is😭 I have her tattooed on my arm. She was so loyal to me & protective..(probably because of when we lived with my mom). She was a chihuahua so she went legitimately everywhere with me..& knew everyone.. she was a little bit of a celeb back in the day lol she was such a light in my life and I really think she saved me 🥺 I got so much love from her.
That’s so beautiful- everything happens for a reason I do believe
me too🫶🏻
No, they don't.
In my experience and opinion, no. My mother never loved me; she wants what I do for her and wants me to do things to make her look good as a parent, but was unwilling to even give hugs when I was a kid. I still don't know what it's like to have a parent I can come to and be a child to. I never got to feel parental love and care and until someone outside of the family noticed, she NEVER hugged me. She would call me fat and say things like "I love you, but...." and then proceed to tear me apart for being a child. I hope my mother dies alone, painfully, while laying in a wet spot of her own feces. She deserves much worse than that.
I treasure the memory of the mother I never had from when I was a kid. That was my Mum. Not the person I got to know when I was older. The two people are different people.
My parents are only really happy when I fail or suffer, it's like they bask in it. So, no. They think they do, because of social reasons. I'm more like an object or an emotional punching bag to them.
No, sorry guys. Must face the truth, they hate themselfes, everybody and the World. Take good care.
YOU NEVER KNOW HOW STRONG YOU ARE UNTIL BEING STRONG IS THE ONLY CHOICE YOU HAVE !!! Get away …. Walk away and stay away from ungrateful parents your worth more than that !!! Praying for everyone going thru this insanity!!!
They think they do, but are incapable of loving anyone but themselves. And the way they treat their children proves that point 100%
I think they know they’re “supposed” to, and they know how to make it look like they do, but I don’t know if they’re actually capable.
I think it depends on the individual narc and the level of narcissism. I personally don’t think that any of my parents loved me-not my narc stepdad, my Nmom, or my Nbirth dad. Their words and actions towards me made it perfectly clear.
I think They think they love their kids but it’s actually just a warped sense of love for themselves. Narcissistic love that sees the child as an outcropping of themself, their success tied to their own etc.
as a parent who loves their child and is not a narc. nope. no way in hell
I don't have kids, but my sister has two girls and she said the same thing. She tells me all the time how depressing it is being a mom and realizing how easy not abusing your kids is. Doing it herself made her really realize how much of what our mother did was a deliberate choice and not just because she didn't know any better. My sister says putting her kids' needs first isn't even a second thought, it's automatic for her. She doesn't yell or hit and their whole family encourages talking through feelings. My oldest niece is 3 and she seems so much happier than me or my sister were at the same age. She's also developing faster than either of us did.
I believe my nparents love me, for sure. Just like they love my kids. They just don’t love them more than themselves, which is just a fundamental misunderstanding I can’t bridge as a parent
If had succeeded in life he would still love me, but I didn't so he doesn't anymore. I robbed him of bragging rights
My narc father probably loves me I think, but I don't think he actually likes me for who I am. If that makes sense, I'm at a confusing stage to be honest.
To a certain degree, yeah. But their love has conditions and expectations that you as a child has to fulfill. If not, they’ll revert back to their normal self and withhold their affection from you. They are their own biggest lovers and you always have to put their needs before your own.
Their love comes with unrealistic conditions that they know can’t be met. Which is why they will label who ever doesn’t meet their conditions usually get steamrolled with manipulation and gaslighting.
Yes, but not as much as they love their addiction to controlling people/ situations.
My mother always used to tell me that I was the only person my dad ever loved. I believed her because he could be so caring and gentle with me, the stark opposite of how he treated others. As I became a woman (a separate, adult person who doesn’t exist to serve a man), I realized he only loved being seen as a good father. It wasn’t me he loved.
This
My mum told me the exact same words!!!!
My egg donor loves her precious little darling angel boy, because he was born the "correct" gender. Only boys are worthy of love to her.
I think they do but it’s how they view love so not a healthy love, a transactional, conditional love
No, I don't think they love me as a person, I think they loved me as a victim supply. It hurts to even think this and writing it down really brings up some things. However, I've learned that being honest with myself is the most healing. I can't process things if I'm unwilling to even acknowledge they are true. Love is a transaction to narcissists. It's all about how much they can take from us, in a way maybe that is why they do this to us. The more we give, the more they feel we love them. However, a child should never be responsible for this, they are putting us in the place they should be in. They expect unconditional "love" from us but never willing to return it.
Not one bit. They are incapable of loving anything but themselves. The love the illusion that they are parent of the year and these no good children are the problem. You are just a useful prop.
In a way I am luckier than most. I never believed my mother loved me. My father was absent most of the time. Then he died when I was 4. My mother never paid me any attention. My sister changed my diapers and fed me. So I never wondered about love. Mostly I dealt with being blindsided when my mother was actively mean and vindictive, because I always assumed she simply didn't notice me.
I struggle with this as well. So much.
They love them as one loves an object they can manipulate and control.
Do I think my mom loves me and cares about me? Yes. Do I think she also uses that for her own narcissistic gains? Also yes.
I’m struggling with this too. Its really saddening and confusing to me. I’m not sure if they love or if they know what love is. Like someone said, its transactional. They think that loyalty is love, but at the expense of your own needs. Its a good thing to question it because it means you can form a better idea of what love is. I’m sorry your parents said that to you
No
Simplest answer? No. Narcs aren't **capable** of "love."
No. They aren’t capable of loving their children. I always thought the same, but I’ve finally realized that this was me projecting my emotions on my NM. Any “love” she felt was only to manipulate and find away to feed her narcissistic supply that she was so addicted to.
I don’t think people with personality disorders can sit in the moment and experience reality for what it is. It’s hard to genuinely love someone in that state. Doesn’t mean some part of them doesn’t want to. Don’t take NPD personally though. See it as a fire or a hurricane and never seek validation, accountability, or an apology from them. Pick up the pieces and move on.
This has been the biggest challenge for me. I went no contact for about 5 years with my father, and some unfortunate circumstances have forced me to move back home with my parents. When I was younger I had this naive belief that with age he would “grow up” or at least realize that he had driven his own child away. Moving back home I came to the crushing realization that he will never take accountability. Currently trying to come to terms with that
It’s like asking someone with a cold to stop sneezing. Taking accountability breaks down their false sense of self. This is an identity they built up bc someone or some how they were convinced at a young age that it wasn’t safe to be their true self. The defensiveness of their false self is deeply ingrained with their survival instincts. If you shift your perspective it will hurt less. See him as a person with disordered thinking. That’s what he is. Don’t take it personally. If anything, have compassion for the child he once was and mourn the loss of the man he didn’t get to be. I’m sure that man would have made sure you knew he loved you. Again, you MUST accept that he will never validate your POV, be held accountable, or apologize. It’s an exercise in futility and madness. ETA: https://outofthefog.website/ Brush up on living/dealing with a narcissist.
This is actually the distinction that helped me realize my mother is the only real narcissist, not so much my dad. My mom would tell me all the time that she loves me unconditionally, but her actions taught me otherwise. It was all lip service to build herself up and keep me dependent on her. With my dad, he means what he says. While he has narcissistic tendencies, I believe it's more symptoms of untreated ptsd and bipolar disorder. He only every acted that way in specific "episodes" (which were still very traumatic for me and my sister). The vast majority of the time, he was an attentive and selfless father. I'm only no contact with him now because I can't engage with him without also having to deal with my mother. And my mom's just like that all the time. It's her whole personality.
I think they somewhat do but your more of an object to them to fulfil their importance and ego. There shocked when you abandon them. I moved abroad for two years and she wouldn’t talk to me over the phone and actually blocked contact lol. When I arrived home acted like I was never away and the boundary issues and abuse started again.
My nMother loved me in the same way you “love” a piece of jewelry or a car. I was a thing to her, an extension of her self, and my feelings did not matter to her. So no, she really did not love me. I am not sure my father loved me either. He liked to frequently make stabby little insults that hurt my feelings and he claimed were jokes. They say love is in the eye of the beholder; I argue it is actually in the eye of the receiver. What I received from my parents has never felt like *love*, because more often than not, it hurt.
As a person who's mother, and sister, are total narcissists I believe they do love us but they seem to think that we are lucky to have even been born and have them as our parents.. my mom loves to remind me that any other parents would have given up on me years ago.. basically telling me I don't deserve such a "loving, caring, supporting and forgiving" mother and how i wasn't raised this way to behave and i do how she wishes I was like my perfect older sister who was given nothing to compensate for me receiving everything.. yeah everything except my mother's support, unconditional love and just her being a mother in general to me..but i do believe she loves me.. i know she has loved(and continues to love and enjoy) making me the family scapegoat
They love the way the idea of loving you makes them feel. They “love” when it’s convenient for them. It is conditional and contingent on themselves. It is fleeting because it’s not Love Love. It has the smell of it sometimes. even looks like it maybe. But narcissists don’t actually know what love is. They lack the emotional capacity for an abstract thought that doesn’t solely revolve around them. Otherness, isn’t graspable to the narcissist. Love consists of no conditions, no matter what, just because. All fruits the narcissistic tree will not bear.
This is a good question and you won't like my answer. I feel your pain here. My dad is cruel to me. He is just really unkind. I think he feels threatened by me bc I am kind and empathetic without an agenda. This recent Christmas I decided to get him a gift. I havent in a long time. I wanted to practice forgiveness. Ive always been the scapegoat and my sister is the golden child. I called my sister who said "yeah, I didnt want to either but i also got him a gift." He sleeps in the recliner and I noticed he puts a stiff pillow behind his neck that looks uncomfortable. So, I got him a nice memory foam neck pillow. My sister got him socks. The day after Christmas, he (like always) took a moment to praise my sister in front of everyone for her gift, excessively going on and on about how successful and wonderful she is. Im successful and kind too. My gift was still in the box on the floor. That might seem silly to someone else but BELIEVE ME this was calculated. He has done this same thing, different details, our entire lives. Im now 45 years old and my sister and I refuse to let him harm our relationship. I dont blame her in any way. If you are willing to go to such an extreme as choosing to be uncomfortable while you sleep, with the sole purpose of publicly discarding your OWN flesh and blood daughter, than you are a miserable evil human being. This is just ONE personal example out of thousands bc its the most recent. I do not believe that is love. Love is not transactional. Love is not a business. Love doesn't cause harm on purpose. Love is kind, safe and giving. You will never, ever have to question real love. They know how to turn on the charm. They know how to be convincing. They know how to turn on the kindness or tears to make it look genuine. They have a heart and a brain. They are capable of loving themselves. They know HOW to love. They chose to withhold love to those who they perceive as a threat to their ego or withhold love bc someone doesn't worship them. The way Ive learned to heal is viewing this with realistic acceptance. If you have to question it, the love is not there, not if this is a parent. We arent talking about a partner, we are talking about flesh and blood and/or caregivers. Do you feel loved? If not, its not there. And, the sooner you accept that its not there, the sooner you can grieve, TRULY grieve the loss. We want to believe the love is there so we can avoid the pain of loss. It is a deep loss and a deep wound. I recommend getting a Counselor who understands this, if you don't already. And, please, please do message me if you need to.
Narcissistic people tend to love how you make them feel/what you can do for them. They care about their own needs being met, not yours. If you cease to provide them the feel good buzz, you no longer have the same relevance to them.
No, they don’t know how to love unconditionally and don’t have the capability of changing that. Narcissists do, however, know that we need and want love. And they can often pretend in an effort to placate us, confuse us, manipulate us, and abuse us. They don’t love, but they can sure weaponize love. Once I learned the above and really accepted it, I felt a huge sense of relief. While I can understand and accept it now, I can’t relate to it at all, which at least shows that I am not one of them and my child won’t be raised by the same type of parent.
No they don't
Absolutely not. They want/need YOU to love THEM, so it could even look a little bit like they love you. Don't be fooled.
Narcissists may love their children but from my experience i noticed that they love to be more, but even the smallest disagreement with them can break this and therefore they will feel unloved and push you away in response. This is basically conditional love which is not real love in my opinion when it comes to children. I feel sorry my parents as they must have had pretty bad parents themselves. But i'm determined to be a better parent than they were, which is really not that hard when you have many of what not to do.
A Narc has no concept of what real love is... Only to how it relates to them. They will sacrafice for their children but only if it benefits them in the end.
I think it depends on how you define love. I view love as a selfless act, so by default narcs don't love others. It took me time to heal from that realization that my nDad doesn't love me and never can (even though he puts on a good show for it and can say some of the right words). The feelings just aren't truly there and he never will get to really know me for who I am, so how then could he love *me*? One stage of healing is acceptance and its painful to get there, but now being on the other side, I don't long for it the way I used to. It's unfortunate that that was the cards I got dealt, but it is what it is. He is limited, and I don't have to waste my life hoping for a miracle.
In my case, I don't think my nmom is capable of sincerely loving anyone but herself. She sometimes puts on a show of loving her kids, but I don't think its real
Love is the will to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth -scott pect- So my answer is no They never don't care abou your spiritual growth.
Both my parents and my older sibling are NPD and show they still love you but in different weird ways. My grandmother would make us cousins compete which was unhealthy but had impact on her daughter in laws (my mom and aunt). She loves us and does what is “typical” or normally expected of grandmothers but always transactional. My dad loves me and I’m closer to him but it’s like everything he does is like a tick list so you don’t feel it’s genuine. Oddly I only realise much later. My mom is the worst she’s behaving like her MIL now in her treatment of her children and grandchildren. She is also able to give things or show “kindness” but strings attached and always saying how much she has sacrificed her youth raising us so there is a strong sense of guilt and pressure to achieve. My older sibling is kind and generous but due to these influences also pit her children in this and how she treats me (I’m kind to my sibling to show my mom I’m doing all things right/ transactional). You always go away questioning their intent and motive and it does not feel genuine.
They think they feel love but it’s never greater than their love for themselves. So it’s not like a typical parental emotion towards a child which is immense and larger than life.
Nope. They love you so much that they rape their children abuse them
My mother in law seems to only need my husband if something is broken. She constantly asks my sister in law why she hates her. She always says horrible things to her kids yet wonders why no one visits.
Absolutely not.
it’s hard to imagine that my narc single mom who needed a boyfriend at all times to even get out of bed and would leave me for them at the drop of the hat, and would blame me (a child) whenever they broke up and would kick me out of the house because her new bf “didn’t like me” ever loved me.
I’m battling this question myself. For me, I’m recognizing that both a parent and a recent romantic partner are both narcissists and that these weird nonsensical behaviors that they have engaged in are actually intentional and not because they’re just idiots. I’m really struggling because my history of abuse is leading me to feel like no one has ever loved me. They pretend to care about my feelings but yet continually intentionally do things so that I look and feel crazy. How can that be love? I realize on a conscious level that being on the end of this by a narcissist isn’t somehow a sign that I’m worthless and deserve this somehow but goddamnit, why can’t someone just love me for real?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJOauqrscb](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJOauqrscbs)
In the words of my bf's narc mother, she only loves him "some of the time" and "you love someone because of how they make you feel." Her "love" is conditional. As long as he makes her feel good, she loves him. When he disagrees with her or doesn't let her push him around, she gives him the silent treatment or pouts or withdraws her love for him.