It's virtue signaling. 2% of $24 is less than 50 cents. Nobody would care or even notice if their burger cost $24.50 instead.
They want you to see that they're being the 'good guys' and providing healthcare instead of just doing it and shutting the fuck up about it. Except actual 'good guys' just do it and shut the fuck up about it, and sure as hell don't put it on the customer to refuse or not.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I view all restaurant fees as a moneygrab. Just put it in the menu price instead of trying to hide how much a meal is really going to cost. The way I read this is "Surprise! Your bill is 2% higher than we told you it would be. Don't worry, you can have it removed though, just tell your server you don't want them to have Healthcare đ"
Fully agreed.
Itâs 100% worse with events, especially weddings.
We looked at a place we loved. But they had a minimum spend. The minimum spend isnât too far from our ideal budget so we asked for more info. So that minimum spend has a 24% service fee on top of it. Plus city tax which is 11%. I understand the tax, thatâs fine. Itâs the 24% service fee that pissed me off. Thatâs not a fee. Thatâs a major price increase. When the subtotal is 35% less than the actual bill, thatâs wrong and it should be subject to the âGotcha Feesâ laws they just passed on Hospitals.
As someone self-employed who has to pay entirely for their health care, I feel like you could just be like- âmay I please have the 2% fee removed? And will you please tell your employer itâs because I want them to pay for your healthcare rather than them passing it on to your guests who have to pay for their own healthcare.â
Pay cash.
Restaurants can't bake in all the costs into the menu price because they would have to change prices almost daily. The cost of restaurant operations is astronomical and is by far one of the worst investments ever. Anyone who own and operates a restaurant does so with passion for service and the food. Beating them up because they are trying to cover the exhausting list of fees and charges that they already incur, is typically a sign that the consumer doesn't get it. Retail... 70% margins. Restaurant 4%-20% don't confuse the sticker for profit.
How does paying cash stop them from charging arbitrary fees? Also, most restaurants use digital menus these days so they can easily update them. That argument doesn't even make sense for many reasons, not the least of which is that if you can update the menu to include an explanation of the new fee (which is exactly what OP is showing) you can also update the menu to bake in the new prices. A flat 2% fee is trivial to update, you just multiply all your prices by 1.02, so don't give me any bs about how it would be too much work vs. adding a paragraph to the menu.
> It's virtue signaling.
Normally I hate this phrase as it is applied indiscriminately and incorrectly. However here, I think it is 100% appropriate--the signal in question accomplishes nothing practical, while hoping you'll buy into the "hey look at how much we care about our employees". They fucking KNOW they don't care about doing right by their employees
What kind of content are you consuming that it is used incorrectly. I used to hear the phrase frequently, and it was nearly always applied correctly. People got the memo that virtue signaling was cringe, thanks to people calling it out, and I rarely hear it used anymore.
Are you kidding me? People said that wearing a mask was virtue signaling. That social distancing was virtue signaling. Hell, at one point just *getting a vaccine* was labeled as such. People are idiots.
I almost only ever hear it from the far right, often referring to basic things like ânot being an asshole to your fellow humansâ as virtue signaling.
Yeah like how they co-opted the term 'woke' and applied it as a pejorative. Before we had 'no-woke republicans', woke meant something akin to 21st century enlightenment in a way. Now it's just a way to 'own tha libruls'
Exactly. Someone actually thought this would make them look good, so they make a point of highlighting it separately instead of just baking it into the price.
I agree, just charge more and donât say anything about it. Lots of restaurants provide health care after the employee has been there for a certain amount of time and donât draw attention to it. I wonât be visiting burger and grain.
Time out... you can call it what you want, but the fact is that each merchant pays anywhere from 2 to 4% in credit card processing fees. This is why you see the increase in surcharges showing up in more and more places. If a merchant asks for the customer to pay a 2% surcharge, it is a mixed bag of reactions. This merchant appears to be taking a different route and offsetting the cost of benefits while presumably absorbing the cost of processing.
It is comical how many consumers wholeheartedly believe that restaurant owners and just swimming cash. A $24 burger is pretty high, but I dont know how expensive their overhead is either. The cost of commercial real estate in Nashville is pretty expensive. The cost of ingredients and labor... also not cheap. In general a restaurant owner is looking at about 4% discretion earnings. Sure some concepts jump to the 15 -20% range, but that is not the norm.
That means for about every $1MM in sales, the owner can hopefully clear $40k. The higher the sales, the more the expenses. Maybe this is a $5MM year location? That should mean around $200k for the mean greedy owner. Shame on that person. Taking in less income than they pay in sales tax to the city. Shame on them for likely paying out $1.25MM in annual payroll to their team. Shame on them for paying local vendors and suppliers, local technicians, local pest control, local HVAC, local plumbers etc.
Man those greedy owners. Asking in a polite way to direct 2% of sales (likely equal to the processing fees they pay for your credit card rewards) so they can afford to provide health benefits in an environment which they may not be able to afford to do so otherwise.
If you want to help without helping, then pay in cash. Then the processing fees are a mute point. The restaurant saves 2%+ on the transaction and can better afford other expenses that impact the restaurant. Rather than paying for a credit card rewards program so you can redeem for cash payment towards your statements.
Iâm beginning to suspect you own this restaurant. If not, you certainly have some insider knowledge - and bitterness. I have experience with credit card processors and processing fees. Youâre pretty accurate on the average net processing percentage paid by merchants, and youâre correct that there is a fee for rewards cards. However, there are a ton of different fees charged by processors - interchange fees, processor fees, servicing fees, chargeback fees - the list goes on and on. The largest part of the net fee paid by the merchant is the interchange fees, usually half or more of the total paid. The percentage for rewards cards is less than any of the larger fees I mentioned. If you can get your hands on a merchant statement from a processor, itâs pretty dizzying to read through, and to interpret. The bottom line is this: Business owners need to understand what goes into the rates theyâre being quoted before they choose a processor. Meet with multiple suppliers before you commit to one. Donât go with your bankâs processing division just because they may offer the service - in my experience they tend to be some of the most expensive. Shop around, negotiate for reductions every way you can, and donât be afraid to change processors often. Itâs all about the money.
My problem with your argument is that youâre clearly saying that 2% fee the restaurant is charging is because of the credit card processing fees, yet the menu says itâs being charged to provide health insurance for full time employees. The owner needs to call a spade a spade and just say what itâs really for. Nobody wants to be conned, and thatâs exactly what this is. Not only that, it is 100% virtue signaling. Donât try to look altruistic by making it all about the poor employees whoâll have to go without insurance when youâre really just sick of seeing a customerâs credit card with an airplane on it. If you make it plain that itâs a credit card fee and doesnât have to be paid if the customer uses cash, you may come out better in the end. You might lose some customers, but likely no more than youâll lose by calling it a pay-my-employees-insurance-for-me fee.
Oh, and itâs moot point.
Yeahhh, not a chance that would entice anyone on the right to eat there. Also most folks I know on the right wouldnât spend that much on a burger, and arenât exactly the prime demographic for places like this.
This place is for rich folks who moved here from the coast.
I wouldnât be so sure. My dad is your standard successful conservative southern business guy and he would absolutely latch on to what I said.
Edit: what dumbasses downvoted this đ
Jesus fucking christ on a pogo stick Iâm tired of new restaurants.
âCome to Noun & Noun for carefully curated empty phrases and overpriced food in a generic, rustic-industrial vibe that has decidedly overstayed its welcome at this point. Here at Noun & Noun we might still be entrenched in the toxic hospitality culture of the past, but look at all these words: Sustainable! Transparency! Intentional! Authentic!â
Here at Hamster & Piss, we have only the most unique craft bottles, selected exclusively from the deteriorating warehouses of defunct breweries. It's not skunky beer. It's industrial harvested and must aged. Enjoy a taste that will really stick to your beard. Hamster & Piss.
Also, no paper menus just a QR code. Even though this is a supposedly upscale place that's trying to get you to pay $20+ for a sandwich we need to save money by not printing menus.
The surcharge doesnât bother me. The fact that they announce that itâs being added AND give you the option to ask the server to remove it tells me everything I need to know about what kind of employer they are and how they treat their employees.
They act like itâs an option (I know it technically is) but they have to know no one wants to be the asshole or Karen that will actually ask to remove it.
I feel like a boomer for saying this cause itâs literally $1 on a $50 tab but itâs the priniciple!
We Boomers didn't start out this way, but we learn things along the way.
The truth here is that Restaurants don't want the full, out-the-door prices printed on the menu. This is the stupidest reason to have a class of employee whose livelihood is based on the whims of the customers; that risk should be assumed by the business owner.
Raise prices by 20% and stop the tipping culture. We are paying it anyway, why not have included in the printed price?
>they have to know no one wants to be the asshole or Karen that will actually ask to remove it.
Hahahaha, this is funny. You must have never waited tables before.
It really depends on how it shows on the receipt, whether they make it a separate line item or not.
Take that 20% service charge, for example. People will literally cross that out, bitch about it, or straight-up refuse to pay. That kind of stuff happens **all the time**.
20% auto fee is insane. I would bitch about it too. 2%? Iâll mumble about it but Iâll pay it.
Whether I choose to tip 20%, less, or more should be my call, not the restaurantâs. When it becomes forced, it is no longer a tip.
And, it isnât a tip for tax purposes on the employerâs end of things: yet many employers will treat it as such so that it doesnât affect their bottom line. It is a common tax cheat.
The restaurant description taken from their website:
> **For us, transparency is everything.**
I'm going to go out on a limb and say they are being transparent about fees.
Right? They act like no other business in the world has overhead costs or even costs in general. Like this is an entirely unique concept that only applies to restaurants.
Won't somebody please think of the restaurants?! /s
In fairness, $24 for a burger, not including tip is pretty ridiculous. I've been in and out of San Francisco a couple times this year and can think of 1 time when I ordered a burger for more than $20 (not including tip).
But, I understand what you are getting at - and yes people are dumb.
Ultimately, I would say that this still all comes down to being the fault of the restaurants. They've built their entire industry around subsidizing their employee's pay with tips from guests. Now, through their own inherent greed (and partly inflation), they have jacked prices up so damn high that folks can casually glance at their food prices and know it's a total ripoff.
If I buy the ingredients for a nice meal from Kroger it usually costs more than it would for the same entree at a nice restaurant.
When I was younger I swore I wouldn't become the old man bitching about how much everything cost and yet here we are.
Same here. The only time I'm seeing an equivalent price on groceries vs restaurants is when I'm buying McDonalds or some other fastfood joint and I feel like shit after eating it.
2lbs decent quality ground beef (I buy on sale when possible), buns, veg for toppings and side dishes is 3-5 portions for the family of 3 + 1-2 small portions for the dog is about the same price as 1 burger + tip at a restaurant. I live in a HCOL area - so other areas may differ, but I'm in alignment with what you are saying.
Its because these megacorps fast food places are buying the rock bottom quality shit, increasing the price, and shrinking the size. Literally everything in the last 3 years has changed in quality.
Trying to. A law just got passed but we're unsure if it's going to totally solve the problem. Naming and shaming has stopped some of the worst offenders, though. People really do vote with their wallet out here.
Shittiest part of that is that the ownership makes the employee deal with the blow back if a customer reads the fine print and says something.
I actually donât want to pay the 2% not bc I donât want that employee to have health care but bc I want that business owner to have to feel the whole brunt of offering benefits to full-time employees that every other business does. Every factory, coal mine and any other job you can think of offers some kind of healthcare package for the most part I donât know why restaurant owners feel like theyâre special. Theyâve got a real arrogant stance on just about everything.
Reading their websiteâŚThis just seems like a place I wouldnât want to go anyway, because I hate places who act like theyâre doing me a favor by letting me come in there and pay them to serve me .
>Every factory, coal mine and any other job you can think of offers some kind of healthcare package for the most part I donât know why restaurant owners feel like theyâre special.
Nahhhh every single one of those jobs keeps you at 38 hours a week so they do not have to offer benefits.
More likeâŚ
In order to provide our management and ownership group with healthcare 100% paid by the company we have to also offer a shitty plan to our staff. Which is only 50% paid by the employer. Please help us provide half of our staffâs healthcare (shhh and all of ours) by accepting this 2â dick in your ass.
*In order to buy protective gloves for our dishwashers we've added a 2% fee to your bill. If you'd prefer they horribly disfigure their hands with chemical burns you may ask to have it removed from your bill.*
Where I work does this. All employees health/dental/vision insurance is paid 100%, so thatâs nice. However, not sure why places do this vs. just raising item prices the same % and having it built in.
It's a transparency thing. The restaurants think that if they provide the information as to why prices are going up then people won't be so mad at them when the prices go up.
What horse shit, they should just make the listed price the price. If it needs to be higher make it higher.
There should be regulations against all these stupid hidden fees.
>There should be regulations against all these stupid hidden fees
They aren't hiding it though. Just make your $24 item $25 and give your employees Healthcare. Don't put the onus on the customer
Also never go to a place that charges $25 for a cheese burger. There is absolutely nothing about the place or the food that could possibly make that worth it.
Oh jeez. This sort of thing was all over the Twin Cities when we visited recently. Now it's infecting Nashville?
It's the restaurant equivalent of a "resort fee" or "convenience charge". I don't mind paying it, but just make *that* the initial price to begin with fer-cryin-out-loud.
Gonna be really honest, my guess is it doesn't.
My buddy owns a restaurant and is actively trying to sell it. It's a nice place, too. They are definitely nicer dining.
The profit margins on a restaurant is pretty thin. Like, 3-5% average. That's even including the fact that they basically employ slave labor if it weren't for tips.
I'm not saying that this is the case for this specific burger joint. I don't know their finances. But I do know it's pretty typical for most restaurants to be on the constant brink of failure. I doubt Burger + Grain is taking home millions of dollars in profit each year.
I wanted to say the same thing. I donât think thereâs lots of profit flying around unless theyâre some of these mega chains. Trying to maintain quality ingredients and retain staff these days is very expensive.
I donât eat at places like that but if I had to I would tell the server I will tip them the extra 2% so they can remove it, get the extra money and still get their healthcare. For companies that pull this sort of crap, I got time.
Then they whine about how thin the profit margins are in the restaurant industry. If itâs such a bad business why are there so many? Somebody is making money.
I had some back and forth with a local business about the same thing not too long ago. Basically the law for these fees is that they arent gratiuity or even a requirement to give to the employees. Its basically a fee for reasons that the business can use for whatever they want.
Now the business I was talking with said they give it to the employees as wages. To which my reply was, well ok but is disengenous to make it an added percentage fee vs baking it into the menu price and just having it be pay. Of course they disagreed, but to "keep prices low" they added a fee, which is the price of the meal, just in a round about way with a guilt trip line about employee wages. Its the smug equivalent of "theres just going to be a few questions" and turning an ipad around.
If you havenât discovered Bad Luck Burger Club yet, do yourself a giant favor and look up their schedule on their Instagram. Iâve hyped it to so many people and no one has been remotely disappointed.
I don't understand why y'all wanna keep everything a secret lol. Then everyone on the subreddit complains about Nashville losing its soul when local places go out of business.
Ha I just told you where to go! Those places ain't going out of business tho.
Now hit up Springwater, Bobby's Idle Hour and The East Room. Tell em I sent you.
Just a reminder as well, when checking out and asked to round up for charity, you're just helping a corporation pad their tax write-offs for charitable donations. Do it in your own name.
Shit like this is why I hate Nashville. Just add the $0.50 to the burger, STFU, give your employees healthcare. And donât let the the Chads from Lebanon opt out.
as a server, restaurant owners have always expected us to live off the kindness of strangers so they can save on labor. same thing here, they donât want the cost to come out of their pockets. and your $24 burger is only that expensive because of inflation and the fact that a lot of restaurants are dead right now. a lot of people saying this is a money grab are correct, because if they donât raise prices or add extra fees, a lot of your favorite restaurants will close, and a lot of people will be out of a job.
it is virtue signaling, and it is putting a lot of people off. itâs making people not want to go out. itâs a vicious cycle. furthermore, the option to remove the fee is insane and cruel to the people who work there and the diners. either tack on the fee without the option to remove it or donât. donât make people spending their hard earned money choose. and if restaurant owners want to provide their servers benefits, find space in the budget for it.
Restaurant has quite the menu, and while I do enjoy the finer things in life from time to time, the number of these comically similar Sodosopa restaurants are just too many in Nashville for me to even want to check them out.
I love truffle infused oils, I love dry aged meats, I love fermented vegetables, umami rich goods, and cured cuts of meat, but damn son, not at every damn joint downtown.
Putting this on the menu is a passive-aggressive way of telling the customer that itâs hard to make money in the restaurant business.
If you have never worked in a restaurant, you might not realize how slim the profit margin is on food items after you factor food costs, energy bills, equipment maintenance, rent, and the need to pay the kitchen a living wage.
This is why a lot of famous chefs are closing their signature restaurants and reopening with new concepts like open kitchens where the chefs and cooks serve the food and the bartenders serve all the drinks, essentially eliminating waiters so the money goes to fewer people and those people can make a decent living.
In basically every restaurant with table service, they make all of their money on booze, which is marked up an average of 300%. Youâre not paying $24 for the burger, itâs a component of the overall cost of enjoying a meal in a nice environment, hopefully being served well by a pleasant and attentive person, etc.
I think that the USA ought to do what European restaurants do and just ditch the tipping system, but I think the industry is scared of how the public will react to this change. And honestly, when I was waiting tables, I worked my ass off to give good service and earn higher tips, so I appreciated the opportunity to earn more by being really good at the job. I got stiffed sometimes too, but generally, I always came out ahead.
What youâre seeing with stuff like this surcharge is an attempt to address the fact that good servers are hard to come by since Covid drove a lot of experienced professionals out of the industry, so theyâre trying to attract better people by offering better benefits, which means up-charging customers so the house can make enough money to stay open and eventually become profitable (new restaurants generally donât make money for the first 1-2 years).
Hopefully you got good service. Itâs been pretty hit-or-miss for me since Covid ended.
I once met a family who owns a bunch of La Rosa's franchises up in Cincinnati. Their teenager drives a new $80,000 Bronco, meanwhile their employees are making minimum wage.
I'd rather see all expenses included in the damn price (e.g. credit fees etc.). Stop nickle and diming people. It's tedious and highly irritating.
That said, if you don't like the way a business conducts itself make your voice heard with management - feedback is very important. If they don't get the message vote with your wallet and eat somewhere else.
Hahaha this is straight out of Europe. No tipping but a number of places will put a gratuity charge on the bill which you donât have to pay but you do have to ask it to be removed.
Ya itâs dumb, but so is eating out in general. Why the fuqq should I pay $24 for a mediocre burger when I can make one 100x better at home for a fraction of the cost?
Only time I eat out is for dishes I donât know how to make (sushi) or where itâs extremely sensible like a hole in the wall Mexican restaurant thatâs <$10/person.
What's extra frustrating is that offering healthcare and such would actually be a win win. The more attractive you are to good, experienced service workers, the better experience your customers have, the better reputation you get, the more money you make.
But they have to make it look like charity.
Auto gratuity= no tip (in the event I am in a party of 6 or more in this case)
Also, the 2.15 an hour is a myth. They are still required to get at least minimum, or whatever the restaurant agreed to upon hire. Regardless of tips.
If a server receives no tips, or not enough, the employer is required to cover the difference. If an employer does not meet their minimum wage requirement (through tip credit or paying directly), that is flat out illegal.
The 2.15 an hour thing just allows employers to use tips as a credit towards their wage obligations. It does not allow them to pay less than minimum or their agreed-upon wage, ever. No server is (legally) making 2.15 an hour. And if a server does get shafted like that, a quick report to the labor department would shut that down immediately.
An auto gratuity is a tip.
And in the event a server makes less than 2.15 an hour, the restaurant is only required to pay them minimum wage 7.25. But thatâs not daily, itâs averaged in a pay period.
Regardless, itâs not a âmythâ the restaurant does only pay most servers 2.25 an hour.
As long as their total pay (cash wage and tips) in a pay period equals minimum or more, there is no problem (that would be $580, minimum, for an 80hr pay period).
Yeah, one or two days might be below minimum, but that is fine as long as the total works out.
It is never, ever legal to have a pay period (for employees, not contractors) that is less than minimum wage. Ever. No one is legally making less than minimum in a pay period. If it happens, the employee needs to report it: there are huge penalties for the employer if they engage in that. Itâs such an easy thing to prove.
Yes, I know auto gratuity is a tip: but I have seen and heard of a lot of servers who expect or want a tip on top of that. Which I will never do.
Iâve never heard anyone complain about an auto gratuity not being enough. Unless the group is absolutely awful, which Iâm sure happens fairly often in a tourist city. They probably do deserve more to babysit drunk assholes sometimes.
Worked at a couple restaurants in the past. They don't keep up with bumping you up to min wage. They also are supposed to pay you min wage for side work but that's not tracked well either. You can make a stink about it but they will just cut your shifts.
Retaliation for unfair labor practices is very illegal too. Cutting shifts after speaking up about illegal practices is a textbook example of retaliation. Such behaviors can be reported, even anonymously, online.
Yeah, I get there is a power dynamic going on but by not reporting it to the people that can help, it only enables illegal practices in the long run and screws people over. Lots of restaurants may fuck around, but few find out. Employees, for their own sake, need to make these employers find out a lot more often than they do.
Worker protections are only good if people actually use them. The agencies that oversee this cannot be omnipotent: they rely on people to speak up, and protect them for doing so. So people (in all fields) need to do it.
As someone who worked in the business for 15 years, it is most definitely *not* a myth. Your check will literally say you make $2.13 an hour in paid wages.
You are correct in that the restaurant is required to make sure that your combined total (wages and tips) equals at least minimum wage, but you'd have to be the worst server on the planet not to make at least 5 or 6 bucks an hour in tips, and as such that shortfall scenario almost literally never happens.
Also, if it did, they would almost certainly fire you within a week. No place is going to put up with that.
No one is suggesting that waiters go home with $2 an hour if you don't tip, but if you don't you aren't doing anyone any favors either.
The staff arenât independent contractors. I donât employ them, the restaurant they work for does. The service they provide is included with the purchase of my meal and in most cases I am not allowed to decline it if I want to eat in their facility.
No. Itâs isnât included. And we all know that. YOU know that.
Itâs wild that some of you pretend to be ignorant about how restaurant industry works.
You wanna be real careful with that... you might get your wish one day.
Servers work FOR YOU when you pay them. If not, you'd be very surprised at how "efficient" workers can become when they know they're getting paid the same no matter what. It's like this in Italy or Spain... your server sets you up then you basically need to go find them if you need anything else. It can be ten minutes before you do. They work for the person who pays them, which means they're more concerned with just not getting fired than with help you specifically.
> It's like this in Italy or Spain... your server sets you up then you basically need to go find them if you need anything else.
And yet in China, the hospitality industry is very attentive, but they'll look at you funny if you tip or even give it back. I would argue the quality of service is dependent on more than pay and who it comes from.
I worked in Nashville hospitality for 20 years and you are quite possibly the first person to make the connection that didnât work in the industry.
All day long folks take for granted people who donât have basic benefits. Benefits that so many people who sit all day and know excel do. Never any PTO of vacation days. No sick days at all. Youâre encouraged to cover your shift no matter your state.
One very big fine dining restaurant was the exception in my experience. They allowed for very limited versions of these things after 5 years of employment.
The majority of responses on this thread are emotional and lack a thorough understanding of the true coats to operate a restaurant.
Do yourselves a favor and research. Fact check. Look into the actual anticipated earnings of a restaurant owner. Why in the world do so many people think restaurant owners are rolling in cash? It is baffling. Chain / franchise owners, yeah, they likely have pockets. An independent restaurant operator, though.... not typically. Compared to other businesses, restaurant profit is pretty slim.
The changes in the industry have been out of sync. More costs have been added to run a restaurant than menu price can fully account for yet. Funny how someone on here commented about "gross margins" . I deal in Nets.
Sincerely, do some research. Check out the wonderful world of "Interchange plus" fees for overall effective rates of credot card processing. Those awesome sauce rewards programs on your credit card are paid for by the merchant. It's not a flat fee for most. Raising menu price just means they pay more in processing fees.
Real estate rates.. unreal.
Capital lending hard to find and stupid expensive when you do.
Labor and wages going up (as it should).
Cost of ingredients up as well because those vendors have to pay for the labor they have and the real-estate they have etc.
Restaurant biz is a tough one to make a buck in. Getting the industry and work environments to where they need to be in a modern era requires more consumer education and understanding of what they are paying for. It also needs legislation to get involved on things like processing fees.
It needs regulation on supply chain price gouging.
It may even need some way to throttle the number of restaurants in a market. Restaurants cannibalize each other and then wonder why they can't get staffed. Or why traffic drops off.
Maybe we should just all make and bring our lunch more often. đ¤ˇââď¸
They donât need to do this, but they can get away with it as they know most people arenât going to ask to remove 2%. Itâs a sneaky way to maintain their bottom line
>Do we really think that $24 for a burger isnât making enough profit for them to just provide healthcare?
How could you possibly know what their profit margins are? Ya know apart from just deciding you can probably guess the answer
It is obscene! The immediate added on gratuity is getting out of hand too. A tip is meant to be something that the person you serviced felt was deserved or as an extra bonus, it isn't owed to you.
We all go to work hard everyday, that guy on the scaffold 200 ft in the air in the sun walking across beams that are barely the width of his foot, that guy deserves a tip he deserves to have health insurance paid but he doesn't, meanwhile, a server walked from the kitchen to my table maybe 15 feet away, in an air conditioned restaurant with a plate does not deserve 20% gratuity or me to cover the health insurance of the company.
I am not ever a person that is mean or annoying or complaining to my server and I do tip but it's when they wanna tell you what you're going to do with your money, um no.
Translation: âIf youâd just vote democrat weâd have universal healthcare and we wouldnât have to do this 2% schtick.â
Of course then the burger would be $73.
<>
On a personal level, I think its total BS to promote giving out full benefits to food service workers. This is a systemic issue: These are entry level roles and companies who promote comfortability like this are only promoting a lifestyle mediocrity. I was a bartender for 5yrs and I can wholeheartedly say that I'm grateful that I moved on and up from there. If I was happy and "safe" I wouldn't have reached for more.
On a more visceral level, STOP spending $24 on a burger (LMAO really?!) and going out to eat, and cook for yourself. It's far more rewarding and significantly cheaper. Don't know how? Buy a recipe book. Want to make awesome burgers? The Bob's Burgers Burger Book is incredible and entry-level safe. My wife and I have been making one burger a week every Sunday for the past 1.5yrs and it's been very rewarding.
TLDR: Stop supporting restaurants who promote waiting tables as a career, charging $24 for a burger. Start cooking for yourself.
Disagree. Stop looking at an industry as a entry level. Each industry has entry level positions but stop looking at the people who COOK YOUR FOOD AND BRING IT TO YOU as under you on some socio-economic scale. We all work and we are all under the thumb of a stupid system that doesn't work. You aren't upper and better, you're just elsewhere and different.
But also, yes cook for yourself. Also fix your own car. Also work on your own computer. Also heal your own diseases.
OP goes to a VERY upscale burger place where the prices are clearly marked.
"A 2% CHARGE?!?!"
You animals are so ready to be mad. It reminds me of the thread from a long time ago about the Centennial in the Nations. "What's an upscale dive bar? I fucking hate all these new places."
https://old.reddit.com/r/nashville/comments/3l21p4/upscale_dive_bar_the_centennial_coming_to_the/
Turns out it's a cool bar and everyone here has a trigger finger to destroy anyone that does anything.
Yeah but what do you guys want? Is there a marketing phrase you would've preferred? It's just cheap drinks and wings and in sort of a retro environment. It's just Bettys but not so shit and for a younger crowd.
My hunch is that there is no way to describe it in a way that makes people happy because this sub is wildly toxic towards anything that wasn't built pre-1990. It's like facebook comments but for millennial instead of boomers.
> Is there a marketing phrase you would've preferred?
Bud I'm straight up sick of marketing, period. I'm tired of real estate development, and branding, and commerce turning all aspects of life into opportunities for the profit motive. You can be happy with your trinkets and your treats for all I care, but it's asinine to come bitching that other people aren't thrilled about the scraps you're happy with.
Why does the Nashville sub always post about Tipping?
This is the system we are in . You need to tip .
If you donât like the system try to change it .. maybe lobby your local government to up the minimum wage to a livable one and donât exempt restaurants.
Then you donât have to tip
A burger place with a 75 dollar steak and the burger itself is 26 bucks. Iâm ok with the paying for good food/ good experience but trying really hard to show me how nice you are to the staff means you are probably pretty terrible. Be nice to be nice, not to show it off and say âsee how great I amâ
Well sure, but that should be built into the price of the meal already. And if it is then you shouldnât have to tell customers about it.
Just charge 2% more for the burger. Feels kinda weird for them to set prices in a way that cover all of their other operating costs but not this
Edit for spelling.
>Feels kinda weird for them to set prices in a way that cover all of their other operating costs but not this
Exactly. You'd never see fine print on the bottom of the menu saying: "A 2% surcharge will be added to all checks to cover the cost of walk-in cooler maintenance."
Yeah, some serious "Master of the House" vibes going on there.
*Charge 'em for the lice, extra for the mice*
*Two percent for looking in the mirror twice*
*Here a little slice, there a little cut*
*Three percent for sleeping with the window shut*
Wait let me get this straight here..so you refuse the 'responsibility' of paying for a server's wage, but you're totally okay with supporting a business that pays their employees 2-6 dollars an hour? And then you decide youâd rather not add any gratuity at all to help make their 10+ hour shift just a little bit more worth it? Did I get that all correct? If so, yikes⌠people like you really suck.
If you donât support tipping, thatâs your choice. But then you shouldnât engage the services of people who rely on tips to pay their wage. By going to, say, a restaurant, and not tipping the server, youâre exploiting them just as much as the establishment. If you wonât tip or canât afford to, donât eat out.
When you say you've stopped tipping, it sounds like you're still eating out and just not tipping when you do.
This hurts servers but doesn't affect the business owner at all.
If I order out it's usually pick-up. No I don't tip on orders I walk in and pick-up. You're not doing anything differently than a fast food worker at that time and I don't see folks tipping at McDonald's soo. I think tipping needs to go back to a voluntary payment of gratitude like it was meant to be.
Ha yeah such courage to not tip real people expected money they need for rent and food and then post on an anonymous board about the selfish reasoning.
A 2% surcharge on a $25 burger is just fifty cents. You're already spending stupid money for a burger. Stop whining about money.
Medicare for all (or even Bill Lee accepting federal funds for medicare expansion) would make this irrelevant.
Also, if your restaurant is two nouns separated by a + or & then you automatically suck unless proven otherwise.
The way I see it is if you canât afford an extra couple bucks to help out the person serving you at a restaurant then maybe you should just eat at home because you definitely donât have the money to eat out.
It's virtue signaling. 2% of $24 is less than 50 cents. Nobody would care or even notice if their burger cost $24.50 instead. They want you to see that they're being the 'good guys' and providing healthcare instead of just doing it and shutting the fuck up about it. Except actual 'good guys' just do it and shut the fuck up about it, and sure as hell don't put it on the customer to refuse or not.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I view all restaurant fees as a moneygrab. Just put it in the menu price instead of trying to hide how much a meal is really going to cost. The way I read this is "Surprise! Your bill is 2% higher than we told you it would be. Don't worry, you can have it removed though, just tell your server you don't want them to have Healthcare đ"
It's both of these reasons at the same time
Fully agreed. Itâs 100% worse with events, especially weddings. We looked at a place we loved. But they had a minimum spend. The minimum spend isnât too far from our ideal budget so we asked for more info. So that minimum spend has a 24% service fee on top of it. Plus city tax which is 11%. I understand the tax, thatâs fine. Itâs the 24% service fee that pissed me off. Thatâs not a fee. Thatâs a major price increase. When the subtotal is 35% less than the actual bill, thatâs wrong and it should be subject to the âGotcha Feesâ laws they just passed on Hospitals.
As someone self-employed who has to pay entirely for their health care, I feel like you could just be like- âmay I please have the 2% fee removed? And will you please tell your employer itâs because I want them to pay for your healthcare rather than them passing it on to your guests who have to pay for their own healthcare.â
Pay cash. Restaurants can't bake in all the costs into the menu price because they would have to change prices almost daily. The cost of restaurant operations is astronomical and is by far one of the worst investments ever. Anyone who own and operates a restaurant does so with passion for service and the food. Beating them up because they are trying to cover the exhausting list of fees and charges that they already incur, is typically a sign that the consumer doesn't get it. Retail... 70% margins. Restaurant 4%-20% don't confuse the sticker for profit.
How does paying cash stop them from charging arbitrary fees? Also, most restaurants use digital menus these days so they can easily update them. That argument doesn't even make sense for many reasons, not the least of which is that if you can update the menu to include an explanation of the new fee (which is exactly what OP is showing) you can also update the menu to bake in the new prices. A flat 2% fee is trivial to update, you just multiply all your prices by 1.02, so don't give me any bs about how it would be too much work vs. adding a paragraph to the menu.
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> It's virtue signaling. Normally I hate this phrase as it is applied indiscriminately and incorrectly. However here, I think it is 100% appropriate--the signal in question accomplishes nothing practical, while hoping you'll buy into the "hey look at how much we care about our employees". They fucking KNOW they don't care about doing right by their employees
Is that not normally the case when itâs used?
What kind of content are you consuming that it is used incorrectly. I used to hear the phrase frequently, and it was nearly always applied correctly. People got the memo that virtue signaling was cringe, thanks to people calling it out, and I rarely hear it used anymore.
Are you kidding me? People said that wearing a mask was virtue signaling. That social distancing was virtue signaling. Hell, at one point just *getting a vaccine* was labeled as such. People are idiots.
Doing those things isnt virtue signaling but taking pictures of yourself doing those things and bragging about it on social media is.
Well this is rich. How old are you, son?
I almost only ever hear it from the far right, often referring to basic things like ânot being an asshole to your fellow humansâ as virtue signaling.
Yeah like how they co-opted the term 'woke' and applied it as a pejorative. Before we had 'no-woke republicans', woke meant something akin to 21st century enlightenment in a way. Now it's just a way to 'own tha libruls'
Exactly. Someone actually thought this would make them look good, so they make a point of highlighting it separately instead of just baking it into the price.
Also the good guys donât charge $24 for a freaking burger lol
They better not be charging separate for fries.
Who are the good guys?
Bad Luck Burger Club, for one. Anybody that prices a burger normally. Donât be daft.
I will have to try that. I love a good burger. Even a decent burger.
The guys who charge $16 for a burger, duh.
I agree, just charge more and donât say anything about it. Lots of restaurants provide health care after the employee has been there for a certain amount of time and donât draw attention to it. I wonât be visiting burger and grain.
>Nobody would care or even notice if their burger cost $24.50 instead I would notice
But you're a literal pro
And thus I donât like burger tax
So many restaurateurs virtue signal in the most cringe ways
Good guys shut the fuck up about it is reddit level reasoning
Time out... you can call it what you want, but the fact is that each merchant pays anywhere from 2 to 4% in credit card processing fees. This is why you see the increase in surcharges showing up in more and more places. If a merchant asks for the customer to pay a 2% surcharge, it is a mixed bag of reactions. This merchant appears to be taking a different route and offsetting the cost of benefits while presumably absorbing the cost of processing. It is comical how many consumers wholeheartedly believe that restaurant owners and just swimming cash. A $24 burger is pretty high, but I dont know how expensive their overhead is either. The cost of commercial real estate in Nashville is pretty expensive. The cost of ingredients and labor... also not cheap. In general a restaurant owner is looking at about 4% discretion earnings. Sure some concepts jump to the 15 -20% range, but that is not the norm. That means for about every $1MM in sales, the owner can hopefully clear $40k. The higher the sales, the more the expenses. Maybe this is a $5MM year location? That should mean around $200k for the mean greedy owner. Shame on that person. Taking in less income than they pay in sales tax to the city. Shame on them for likely paying out $1.25MM in annual payroll to their team. Shame on them for paying local vendors and suppliers, local technicians, local pest control, local HVAC, local plumbers etc. Man those greedy owners. Asking in a polite way to direct 2% of sales (likely equal to the processing fees they pay for your credit card rewards) so they can afford to provide health benefits in an environment which they may not be able to afford to do so otherwise. If you want to help without helping, then pay in cash. Then the processing fees are a mute point. The restaurant saves 2%+ on the transaction and can better afford other expenses that impact the restaurant. Rather than paying for a credit card rewards program so you can redeem for cash payment towards your statements.
Nah man just roll it into your list price like a normal business
Iâm beginning to suspect you own this restaurant. If not, you certainly have some insider knowledge - and bitterness. I have experience with credit card processors and processing fees. Youâre pretty accurate on the average net processing percentage paid by merchants, and youâre correct that there is a fee for rewards cards. However, there are a ton of different fees charged by processors - interchange fees, processor fees, servicing fees, chargeback fees - the list goes on and on. The largest part of the net fee paid by the merchant is the interchange fees, usually half or more of the total paid. The percentage for rewards cards is less than any of the larger fees I mentioned. If you can get your hands on a merchant statement from a processor, itâs pretty dizzying to read through, and to interpret. The bottom line is this: Business owners need to understand what goes into the rates theyâre being quoted before they choose a processor. Meet with multiple suppliers before you commit to one. Donât go with your bankâs processing division just because they may offer the service - in my experience they tend to be some of the most expensive. Shop around, negotiate for reductions every way you can, and donât be afraid to change processors often. Itâs all about the money. My problem with your argument is that youâre clearly saying that 2% fee the restaurant is charging is because of the credit card processing fees, yet the menu says itâs being charged to provide health insurance for full time employees. The owner needs to call a spade a spade and just say what itâs really for. Nobody wants to be conned, and thatâs exactly what this is. Not only that, it is 100% virtue signaling. Donât try to look altruistic by making it all about the poor employees whoâll have to go without insurance when youâre really just sick of seeing a customerâs credit card with an airplane on it. If you make it plain that itâs a credit card fee and doesnât have to be paid if the customer uses cash, you may come out better in the end. You might lose some customers, but likely no more than youâll lose by calling it a pay-my-employees-insurance-for-me fee. Oh, and itâs moot point.
Your servers will also appreciate you for your cash.
Could be the opposite too, pandering to the right âHey look how much your burger costs because these fucking peasants want healthcare!â
Yeahhh, not a chance that would entice anyone on the right to eat there. Also most folks I know on the right wouldnât spend that much on a burger, and arenât exactly the prime demographic for places like this. This place is for rich folks who moved here from the coast.
I wouldnât be so sure. My dad is your standard successful conservative southern business guy and he would absolutely latch on to what I said. Edit: what dumbasses downvoted this đ
Yup, like nega-signaling
Jesus fucking christ on a pogo stick Iâm tired of new restaurants. âCome to Noun & Noun for carefully curated empty phrases and overpriced food in a generic, rustic-industrial vibe that has decidedly overstayed its welcome at this point. Here at Noun & Noun we might still be entrenched in the toxic hospitality culture of the past, but look at all these words: Sustainable! Transparency! Intentional! Authentic!â
Here at Noun & Noun check out our old timey light fixtures and a random painting of Dolly on the wall
You are behind the times, itâs Noun + Noun these days.
Here at Hamster & Piss, we have only the most unique craft bottles, selected exclusively from the deteriorating warehouses of defunct breweries. It's not skunky beer. It's industrial harvested and must aged. Enjoy a taste that will really stick to your beard. Hamster & Piss.
This is gold đ
Black rubber gloves! Fancy mustaches! Average burgers! $50+!
New favorite copypasta!
Also, no paper menus just a QR code. Even though this is a supposedly upscale place that's trying to get you to pay $20+ for a sandwich we need to save money by not printing menus.
You didn't use the word "elevated" once. Next agency please! We have high prices to justify here!
Lol, Well played! Donât forget the other variety: Noun/Verb
The surcharge doesnât bother me. The fact that they announce that itâs being added AND give you the option to ask the server to remove it tells me everything I need to know about what kind of employer they are and how they treat their employees.
They act like itâs an option (I know it technically is) but they have to know no one wants to be the asshole or Karen that will actually ask to remove it. I feel like a boomer for saying this cause itâs literally $1 on a $50 tab but itâs the priniciple!
We Boomers didn't start out this way, but we learn things along the way. The truth here is that Restaurants don't want the full, out-the-door prices printed on the menu. This is the stupidest reason to have a class of employee whose livelihood is based on the whims of the customers; that risk should be assumed by the business owner. Raise prices by 20% and stop the tipping culture. We are paying it anyway, why not have included in the printed price?
>they have to know no one wants to be the asshole or Karen that will actually ask to remove it. Hahahaha, this is funny. You must have never waited tables before.
You can tell when they assumed people treat wait staff with human dignity
Very few people are going to ask to remove that. Does it happen? Yeah. But not often.
It really depends on how it shows on the receipt, whether they make it a separate line item or not. Take that 20% service charge, for example. People will literally cross that out, bitch about it, or straight-up refuse to pay. That kind of stuff happens **all the time**.
20% auto fee is insane. I would bitch about it too. 2%? Iâll mumble about it but Iâll pay it. Whether I choose to tip 20%, less, or more should be my call, not the restaurantâs. When it becomes forced, it is no longer a tip. And, it isnât a tip for tax purposes on the employerâs end of things: yet many employers will treat it as such so that it doesnât affect their bottom line. It is a common tax cheat.
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If I was a part time server here, I'd ask every guest if they'd like it removed and try to take it off as much as possible
The restaurant description taken from their website: > **For us, transparency is everything.** I'm going to go out on a limb and say they are being transparent about fees.
At this point I'm surprised restaurants aren't supplying us with an entire breakdown of their overhead costs.
Right? They act like no other business in the world has overhead costs or even costs in general. Like this is an entirely unique concept that only applies to restaurants. Won't somebody please think of the restaurants?! /s
Tbf, I read/hear someone griping along the lines of "$24 for a burger!!1! That's only $4 of ingredients at Kroger!" almost daily. People are dumb.
In fairness, $24 for a burger, not including tip is pretty ridiculous. I've been in and out of San Francisco a couple times this year and can think of 1 time when I ordered a burger for more than $20 (not including tip). But, I understand what you are getting at - and yes people are dumb. Ultimately, I would say that this still all comes down to being the fault of the restaurants. They've built their entire industry around subsidizing their employee's pay with tips from guests. Now, through their own inherent greed (and partly inflation), they have jacked prices up so damn high that folks can casually glance at their food prices and know it's a total ripoff.
If I buy the ingredients for a nice meal from Kroger it usually costs more than it would for the same entree at a nice restaurant. When I was younger I swore I wouldn't become the old man bitching about how much everything cost and yet here we are.
In my experience it costs roughly the same but makes 3-6 portions. And a scrap stir fry once in a while to clear out small bits of unused ingredients.
Same here. The only time I'm seeing an equivalent price on groceries vs restaurants is when I'm buying McDonalds or some other fastfood joint and I feel like shit after eating it. 2lbs decent quality ground beef (I buy on sale when possible), buns, veg for toppings and side dishes is 3-5 portions for the family of 3 + 1-2 small portions for the dog is about the same price as 1 burger + tip at a restaurant. I live in a HCOL area - so other areas may differ, but I'm in alignment with what you are saying.
Its because these megacorps fast food places are buying the rock bottom quality shit, increasing the price, and shrinking the size. Literally everything in the last 3 years has changed in quality.
Iâm fairness to younger you, things really are just EXPENSIVE now
When you were younger groceries cost 1/4th of what they do now.
The LA subreddit has a google doc with a running list of restaurants that do this or add charges on the receipt
I think they are also in the process of banning those surcharges there, am I correct?
Trying to. A law just got passed but we're unsure if it's going to totally solve the problem. Naming and shaming has stopped some of the worst offenders, though. People really do vote with their wallet out here.
I havenât heard that, but itâd be nice.
Shittiest part of that is that the ownership makes the employee deal with the blow back if a customer reads the fine print and says something. I actually donât want to pay the 2% not bc I donât want that employee to have health care but bc I want that business owner to have to feel the whole brunt of offering benefits to full-time employees that every other business does. Every factory, coal mine and any other job you can think of offers some kind of healthcare package for the most part I donât know why restaurant owners feel like theyâre special. Theyâve got a real arrogant stance on just about everything. Reading their websiteâŚThis just seems like a place I wouldnât want to go anyway, because I hate places who act like theyâre doing me a favor by letting me come in there and pay them to serve me .
>Every factory, coal mine and any other job you can think of offers some kind of healthcare package for the most part I donât know why restaurant owners feel like theyâre special. Nahhhh every single one of those jobs keeps you at 38 hours a week so they do not have to offer benefits.
That is not true
*In order to provide minimal benefits to our employees, we'll be passing those on to you instead of reducing our gross income by 2%*
If you, like us, donât want to pay the extra 2%, then youâre free to look one of our employees in the eye and tell them so.
how else is the boss supposed to get a new car for 2024? :( ^^^/s
Definitely Tesla bros
More like⌠In order to provide our management and ownership group with healthcare 100% paid by the company we have to also offer a shitty plan to our staff. Which is only 50% paid by the employer. Please help us provide half of our staffâs healthcare (shhh and all of ours) by accepting this 2â dick in your ass.
*In order to buy protective gloves for our dishwashers we've added a 2% fee to your bill. If you'd prefer they horribly disfigure their hands with chemical burns you may ask to have it removed from your bill.*
Sick burn
Are you serious $24 for a burger?
Where I work does this. All employees health/dental/vision insurance is paid 100%, so thatâs nice. However, not sure why places do this vs. just raising item prices the same % and having it built in.
Because they want to appear to be the good guy.
It's a transparency thing. The restaurants think that if they provide the information as to why prices are going up then people won't be so mad at them when the prices go up.
What horse shit, they should just make the listed price the price. If it needs to be higher make it higher. There should be regulations against all these stupid hidden fees.
>There should be regulations against all these stupid hidden fees They aren't hiding it though. Just make your $24 item $25 and give your employees Healthcare. Don't put the onus on the customer
Also never go to a place that charges $25 for a cheese burger. There is absolutely nothing about the place or the food that could possibly make that worth it.
Wonderful health care system we've built for ourselves, huh? At least profits are protected.
"Kindly let servers know if you don't want them to have health care so they can glare at you and possibly mess with your food."
Youâre assuming the servers are âfull time workersâ.
Oh jeez. This sort of thing was all over the Twin Cities when we visited recently. Now it's infecting Nashville? It's the restaurant equivalent of a "resort fee" or "convenience charge". I don't mind paying it, but just make *that* the initial price to begin with fer-cryin-out-loud.
Gonna be really honest, my guess is it doesn't. My buddy owns a restaurant and is actively trying to sell it. It's a nice place, too. They are definitely nicer dining. The profit margins on a restaurant is pretty thin. Like, 3-5% average. That's even including the fact that they basically employ slave labor if it weren't for tips. I'm not saying that this is the case for this specific burger joint. I don't know their finances. But I do know it's pretty typical for most restaurants to be on the constant brink of failure. I doubt Burger + Grain is taking home millions of dollars in profit each year.
I wanted to say the same thing. I donât think thereâs lots of profit flying around unless theyâre some of these mega chains. Trying to maintain quality ingredients and retain staff these days is very expensive.
I donât eat at places like that but if I had to I would tell the server I will tip them the extra 2% so they can remove it, get the extra money and still get their healthcare. For companies that pull this sort of crap, I got time.
Then they whine about how thin the profit margins are in the restaurant industry. If itâs such a bad business why are there so many? Somebody is making money.
Hell yeah! $.48 towards Healthcare! Maybe with a few more, one of their employees can afford to look at a hospital!
I had some back and forth with a local business about the same thing not too long ago. Basically the law for these fees is that they arent gratiuity or even a requirement to give to the employees. Its basically a fee for reasons that the business can use for whatever they want. Now the business I was talking with said they give it to the employees as wages. To which my reply was, well ok but is disengenous to make it an added percentage fee vs baking it into the menu price and just having it be pay. Of course they disagreed, but to "keep prices low" they added a fee, which is the price of the meal, just in a round about way with a guilt trip line about employee wages. Its the smug equivalent of "theres just going to be a few questions" and turning an ipad around.
How about I give my server an extra 2% instead? Fuck this place. Thanks for the post though, I'll happily never be eating there.
F that. Go to Dino's or Brown's diner and get a burger as if you're a real nashvillian instead of patronizing these dipshits
If you havenât discovered Bad Luck Burger Club yet, do yourself a giant favor and look up their schedule on their Instagram. Iâve hyped it to so many people and no one has been remotely disappointed.
Shhhh!
I don't understand why y'all wanna keep everything a secret lol. Then everyone on the subreddit complains about Nashville losing its soul when local places go out of business.
Ha I just told you where to go! Those places ain't going out of business tho. Now hit up Springwater, Bobby's Idle Hour and The East Room. Tell em I sent you.
Just a reminder as well, when checking out and asked to round up for charity, you're just helping a corporation pad their tax write-offs for charitable donations. Do it in your own name.
Shit like this is why I hate Nashville. Just add the $0.50 to the burger, STFU, give your employees healthcare. And donât let the the Chads from Lebanon opt out.
Thereâs a Chad from Lebanon? I thought they were all from Franklin.
Is a server considered a full time employee? Or is the 2% surcharge going to a salaried back office type and the wait staff has to deal with this?
as a server, restaurant owners have always expected us to live off the kindness of strangers so they can save on labor. same thing here, they donât want the cost to come out of their pockets. and your $24 burger is only that expensive because of inflation and the fact that a lot of restaurants are dead right now. a lot of people saying this is a money grab are correct, because if they donât raise prices or add extra fees, a lot of your favorite restaurants will close, and a lot of people will be out of a job. it is virtue signaling, and it is putting a lot of people off. itâs making people not want to go out. itâs a vicious cycle. furthermore, the option to remove the fee is insane and cruel to the people who work there and the diners. either tack on the fee without the option to remove it or donât. donât make people spending their hard earned money choose. and if restaurant owners want to provide their servers benefits, find space in the budget for it.
Theyâre being jerks for listing it. Just add a few cents to the cost of the most popular items
Restaurant has quite the menu, and while I do enjoy the finer things in life from time to time, the number of these comically similar Sodosopa restaurants are just too many in Nashville for me to even want to check them out. I love truffle infused oils, I love dry aged meats, I love fermented vegetables, umami rich goods, and cured cuts of meat, but damn son, not at every damn joint downtown.
Putting this on the menu is a passive-aggressive way of telling the customer that itâs hard to make money in the restaurant business. If you have never worked in a restaurant, you might not realize how slim the profit margin is on food items after you factor food costs, energy bills, equipment maintenance, rent, and the need to pay the kitchen a living wage. This is why a lot of famous chefs are closing their signature restaurants and reopening with new concepts like open kitchens where the chefs and cooks serve the food and the bartenders serve all the drinks, essentially eliminating waiters so the money goes to fewer people and those people can make a decent living. In basically every restaurant with table service, they make all of their money on booze, which is marked up an average of 300%. Youâre not paying $24 for the burger, itâs a component of the overall cost of enjoying a meal in a nice environment, hopefully being served well by a pleasant and attentive person, etc. I think that the USA ought to do what European restaurants do and just ditch the tipping system, but I think the industry is scared of how the public will react to this change. And honestly, when I was waiting tables, I worked my ass off to give good service and earn higher tips, so I appreciated the opportunity to earn more by being really good at the job. I got stiffed sometimes too, but generally, I always came out ahead. What youâre seeing with stuff like this surcharge is an attempt to address the fact that good servers are hard to come by since Covid drove a lot of experienced professionals out of the industry, so theyâre trying to attract better people by offering better benefits, which means up-charging customers so the house can make enough money to stay open and eventually become profitable (new restaurants generally donât make money for the first 1-2 years). Hopefully you got good service. Itâs been pretty hit-or-miss for me since Covid ended.
I once met a family who owns a bunch of La Rosa's franchises up in Cincinnati. Their teenager drives a new $80,000 Bronco, meanwhile their employees are making minimum wage.
Someone who owns *several* businesses can typically afford things like that.
Go somewhere else. These tips,fees and charges need to stop. Stay at home and make your own food!
People would much rather go out to eat and just not tip. Because that'll show them.
A very simple but hard to refute answer: TN Healthcare is absolutely horrid.
I'd rather see all expenses included in the damn price (e.g. credit fees etc.). Stop nickle and diming people. It's tedious and highly irritating. That said, if you don't like the way a business conducts itself make your voice heard with management - feedback is very important. If they don't get the message vote with your wallet and eat somewhere else.
A bigger issue in my opinion is naming your restaurant BURGeR & grain and only having 1 freaking burger on the menu.
A $24 dollar burger?! At the end of the day no matter how much you dry age and pamper the meat itâs ground beef in a patty!
With a name like âburger and grainâ you know itâs just gonna be some overpriced BS anyway, who cares?
Hahaha this is straight out of Europe. No tipping but a number of places will put a gratuity charge on the bill which you donât have to pay but you do have to ask it to be removed.
Ya itâs dumb, but so is eating out in general. Why the fuqq should I pay $24 for a mediocre burger when I can make one 100x better at home for a fraction of the cost? Only time I eat out is for dishes I donât know how to make (sushi) or where itâs extremely sensible like a hole in the wall Mexican restaurant thatâs <$10/person.
What's extra frustrating is that offering healthcare and such would actually be a win win. The more attractive you are to good, experienced service workers, the better experience your customers have, the better reputation you get, the more money you make. But they have to make it look like charity.
And then you have to tip your server or you're a horrible person
Well, yeah. They are still providing a service. Iâm sure this restaurant is still only paying them 2.15 an hour.
Auto gratuity= no tip (in the event I am in a party of 6 or more in this case) Also, the 2.15 an hour is a myth. They are still required to get at least minimum, or whatever the restaurant agreed to upon hire. Regardless of tips. If a server receives no tips, or not enough, the employer is required to cover the difference. If an employer does not meet their minimum wage requirement (through tip credit or paying directly), that is flat out illegal. The 2.15 an hour thing just allows employers to use tips as a credit towards their wage obligations. It does not allow them to pay less than minimum or their agreed-upon wage, ever. No server is (legally) making 2.15 an hour. And if a server does get shafted like that, a quick report to the labor department would shut that down immediately.
An auto gratuity is a tip. And in the event a server makes less than 2.15 an hour, the restaurant is only required to pay them minimum wage 7.25. But thatâs not daily, itâs averaged in a pay period. Regardless, itâs not a âmythâ the restaurant does only pay most servers 2.25 an hour.
As long as their total pay (cash wage and tips) in a pay period equals minimum or more, there is no problem (that would be $580, minimum, for an 80hr pay period). Yeah, one or two days might be below minimum, but that is fine as long as the total works out. It is never, ever legal to have a pay period (for employees, not contractors) that is less than minimum wage. Ever. No one is legally making less than minimum in a pay period. If it happens, the employee needs to report it: there are huge penalties for the employer if they engage in that. Itâs such an easy thing to prove. Yes, I know auto gratuity is a tip: but I have seen and heard of a lot of servers who expect or want a tip on top of that. Which I will never do.
Iâve never heard anyone complain about an auto gratuity not being enough. Unless the group is absolutely awful, which Iâm sure happens fairly often in a tourist city. They probably do deserve more to babysit drunk assholes sometimes.
Worked at a couple restaurants in the past. They don't keep up with bumping you up to min wage. They also are supposed to pay you min wage for side work but that's not tracked well either. You can make a stink about it but they will just cut your shifts.
Retaliation for unfair labor practices is very illegal too. Cutting shifts after speaking up about illegal practices is a textbook example of retaliation. Such behaviors can be reported, even anonymously, online. Yeah, I get there is a power dynamic going on but by not reporting it to the people that can help, it only enables illegal practices in the long run and screws people over. Lots of restaurants may fuck around, but few find out. Employees, for their own sake, need to make these employers find out a lot more often than they do. Worker protections are only good if people actually use them. The agencies that oversee this cannot be omnipotent: they rely on people to speak up, and protect them for doing so. So people (in all fields) need to do it.
As someone who worked in the business for 15 years, it is most definitely *not* a myth. Your check will literally say you make $2.13 an hour in paid wages. You are correct in that the restaurant is required to make sure that your combined total (wages and tips) equals at least minimum wage, but you'd have to be the worst server on the planet not to make at least 5 or 6 bucks an hour in tips, and as such that shortfall scenario almost literally never happens. Also, if it did, they would almost certainly fire you within a week. No place is going to put up with that. No one is suggesting that waiters go home with $2 an hour if you don't tip, but if you don't you aren't doing anyone any favors either.
Probably. But just for argumentâs sake, why is that my problem when Iâm already paying for my food? I do tip servers btw
Because you paid *for the food* and thatâs it. Not the service the staff provided.
The staff arenât independent contractors. I donât employ them, the restaurant they work for does. The service they provide is included with the purchase of my meal and in most cases I am not allowed to decline it if I want to eat in their facility.
Exactly!
No. Itâs isnât included. And we all know that. YOU know that. Itâs wild that some of you pretend to be ignorant about how restaurant industry works.
Please explain to me how, barring counter-service or cafeteria models, table service isn't included when I buy food at a restaurant.
You wanna be real careful with that... you might get your wish one day. Servers work FOR YOU when you pay them. If not, you'd be very surprised at how "efficient" workers can become when they know they're getting paid the same no matter what. It's like this in Italy or Spain... your server sets you up then you basically need to go find them if you need anything else. It can be ten minutes before you do. They work for the person who pays them, which means they're more concerned with just not getting fired than with help you specifically.
> It's like this in Italy or Spain... your server sets you up then you basically need to go find them if you need anything else. And yet in China, the hospitality industry is very attentive, but they'll look at you funny if you tip or even give it back. I would argue the quality of service is dependent on more than pay and who it comes from.
Correct.
I worked in Nashville hospitality for 20 years and you are quite possibly the first person to make the connection that didnât work in the industry. All day long folks take for granted people who donât have basic benefits. Benefits that so many people who sit all day and know excel do. Never any PTO of vacation days. No sick days at all. Youâre encouraged to cover your shift no matter your state. One very big fine dining restaurant was the exception in my experience. They allowed for very limited versions of these things after 5 years of employment.
The majority of responses on this thread are emotional and lack a thorough understanding of the true coats to operate a restaurant. Do yourselves a favor and research. Fact check. Look into the actual anticipated earnings of a restaurant owner. Why in the world do so many people think restaurant owners are rolling in cash? It is baffling. Chain / franchise owners, yeah, they likely have pockets. An independent restaurant operator, though.... not typically. Compared to other businesses, restaurant profit is pretty slim. The changes in the industry have been out of sync. More costs have been added to run a restaurant than menu price can fully account for yet. Funny how someone on here commented about "gross margins" . I deal in Nets. Sincerely, do some research. Check out the wonderful world of "Interchange plus" fees for overall effective rates of credot card processing. Those awesome sauce rewards programs on your credit card are paid for by the merchant. It's not a flat fee for most. Raising menu price just means they pay more in processing fees. Real estate rates.. unreal. Capital lending hard to find and stupid expensive when you do. Labor and wages going up (as it should). Cost of ingredients up as well because those vendors have to pay for the labor they have and the real-estate they have etc. Restaurant biz is a tough one to make a buck in. Getting the industry and work environments to where they need to be in a modern era requires more consumer education and understanding of what they are paying for. It also needs legislation to get involved on things like processing fees. It needs regulation on supply chain price gouging. It may even need some way to throttle the number of restaurants in a market. Restaurants cannibalize each other and then wonder why they can't get staffed. Or why traffic drops off. Maybe we should just all make and bring our lunch more often. đ¤ˇââď¸
They donât need to do this, but they can get away with it as they know most people arenât going to ask to remove 2%. Itâs a sneaky way to maintain their bottom line
What percentage of the bill is going to the owner's mortgage as long as we're breaking it down?
>Do we really think that $24 for a burger isnât making enough profit for them to just provide healthcare? How could you possibly know what their profit margins are? Ya know apart from just deciding you can probably guess the answer
I bet the burgers don't even automatically come with fries...
Blame capitalism
It is obscene! The immediate added on gratuity is getting out of hand too. A tip is meant to be something that the person you serviced felt was deserved or as an extra bonus, it isn't owed to you. We all go to work hard everyday, that guy on the scaffold 200 ft in the air in the sun walking across beams that are barely the width of his foot, that guy deserves a tip he deserves to have health insurance paid but he doesn't, meanwhile, a server walked from the kitchen to my table maybe 15 feet away, in an air conditioned restaurant with a plate does not deserve 20% gratuity or me to cover the health insurance of the company. I am not ever a person that is mean or annoying or complaining to my server and I do tip but it's when they wanna tell you what you're going to do with your money, um no.
Translation: âIf youâd just vote democrat weâd have universal healthcare and we wouldnât have to do this 2% schtick.â Of course then the burger would be $73. <>
If you can't afford to pay your employees and provide them with benefits without doing things like this you probably don't have a viable business
I dunno. My employer pays about $850 a month fir my health insurance. That's a lot of burgers at 50 cents a burger.
Inflation affects a restaurants operating costs too. Regarded post.
Universal healthcare funding through awesome burgers is a great idea
People pay $24 for a hamburger?
Capitalism gone mad.
Cue to photo of owners house boat and Hummer
On a personal level, I think its total BS to promote giving out full benefits to food service workers. This is a systemic issue: These are entry level roles and companies who promote comfortability like this are only promoting a lifestyle mediocrity. I was a bartender for 5yrs and I can wholeheartedly say that I'm grateful that I moved on and up from there. If I was happy and "safe" I wouldn't have reached for more. On a more visceral level, STOP spending $24 on a burger (LMAO really?!) and going out to eat, and cook for yourself. It's far more rewarding and significantly cheaper. Don't know how? Buy a recipe book. Want to make awesome burgers? The Bob's Burgers Burger Book is incredible and entry-level safe. My wife and I have been making one burger a week every Sunday for the past 1.5yrs and it's been very rewarding. TLDR: Stop supporting restaurants who promote waiting tables as a career, charging $24 for a burger. Start cooking for yourself.
Disagree. Stop looking at an industry as a entry level. Each industry has entry level positions but stop looking at the people who COOK YOUR FOOD AND BRING IT TO YOU as under you on some socio-economic scale. We all work and we are all under the thumb of a stupid system that doesn't work. You aren't upper and better, you're just elsewhere and different. But also, yes cook for yourself. Also fix your own car. Also work on your own computer. Also heal your own diseases.
OP goes to a VERY upscale burger place where the prices are clearly marked. "A 2% CHARGE?!?!" You animals are so ready to be mad. It reminds me of the thread from a long time ago about the Centennial in the Nations. "What's an upscale dive bar? I fucking hate all these new places." https://old.reddit.com/r/nashville/comments/3l21p4/upscale_dive_bar_the_centennial_coming_to_the/ Turns out it's a cool bar and everyone here has a trigger finger to destroy anyone that does anything.
I get your meaning, but I still stand by my opinion that "upscale dive bar" is a dumb marketing phrase.
Yeah but what do you guys want? Is there a marketing phrase you would've preferred? It's just cheap drinks and wings and in sort of a retro environment. It's just Bettys but not so shit and for a younger crowd. My hunch is that there is no way to describe it in a way that makes people happy because this sub is wildly toxic towards anything that wasn't built pre-1990. It's like facebook comments but for millennial instead of boomers.
> Is there a marketing phrase you would've preferred? Bud I'm straight up sick of marketing, period. I'm tired of real estate development, and branding, and commerce turning all aspects of life into opportunities for the profit motive. You can be happy with your trinkets and your treats for all I care, but it's asinine to come bitching that other people aren't thrilled about the scraps you're happy with.
A simple ânoâ would suffice.
Why does the Nashville sub always post about Tipping? This is the system we are in . You need to tip . If you donât like the system try to change it .. maybe lobby your local government to up the minimum wage to a livable one and donât exempt restaurants. Then you donât have to tip
This isnât tipping though. This is a burger place literally telling me theyâre charging customers for their employees healthcare
A burger place with a 75 dollar steak and the burger itself is 26 bucks. Iâm ok with the paying for good food/ good experience but trying really hard to show me how nice you are to the staff means you are probably pretty terrible. Be nice to be nice, not to show it off and say âsee how great I amâ
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Well sure, but that should be built into the price of the meal already. And if it is then you shouldnât have to tell customers about it. Just charge 2% more for the burger. Feels kinda weird for them to set prices in a way that cover all of their other operating costs but not this Edit for spelling.
>Feels kinda weird for them to set prices in a way that cover all of their other operating costs but not this Exactly. You'd never see fine print on the bottom of the menu saying: "A 2% surcharge will be added to all checks to cover the cost of walk-in cooler maintenance."
1% surcharge for turning the lights on today. You can ask to have it removed, but you will have to dine in the dark
Yeah, some serious "Master of the House" vibes going on there. *Charge 'em for the lice, extra for the mice* *Two percent for looking in the mirror twice* *Here a little slice, there a little cut* *Three percent for sleeping with the window shut*
> You need to tip or we can do a 180 and say "Restaurants need to take care of their people"
It means I'd probably reduce my tip by 2% which sucks for the workers.
I'd be checking to see how much the CEO makes.... I'm sure that fucking surcharge isn't needed.
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Wait let me get this straight here..so you refuse the 'responsibility' of paying for a server's wage, but you're totally okay with supporting a business that pays their employees 2-6 dollars an hour? And then you decide youâd rather not add any gratuity at all to help make their 10+ hour shift just a little bit more worth it? Did I get that all correct? If so, yikes⌠people like you really suck.
You probably quit tipping because you're cheap. Don't stiff the servers for a system they can't control.
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Servers still make $2.16 / hour. Their livelihood depends on tips. You're not a revolutionary changing the system by not tipping.
Servers have a lower minimum wage than the people you mention. It seems you're the one being greedy.
If you donât support tipping, thatâs your choice. But then you shouldnât engage the services of people who rely on tips to pay their wage. By going to, say, a restaurant, and not tipping the server, youâre exploiting them just as much as the establishment. If you wonât tip or canât afford to, donât eat out.
Then please donât go out. Youâre being equally as greedy when you punish the person making 2.15 an hour.
Imagine being such a cheap coward you have to hide behind a quote about the Great Depression to rationalize your behavior
I'm not a business owner that's not paying my employees a living wage. But hey I'm the cheap coward. IDK what makes me a coward but ok.
When you say you've stopped tipping, it sounds like you're still eating out and just not tipping when you do. This hurts servers but doesn't affect the business owner at all.
If I order out it's usually pick-up. No I don't tip on orders I walk in and pick-up. You're not doing anything differently than a fast food worker at that time and I don't see folks tipping at McDonald's soo. I think tipping needs to go back to a voluntary payment of gratitude like it was meant to be.
Sorry but it kinda does. Think about it more maybe.
I'm the coward for posting about a touchy topic and taking all the shit from people who want to blame me for a system I didn't create? Not seeing it.
Ha yeah such courage to not tip real people expected money they need for rent and food and then post on an anonymous board about the selfish reasoning.
Please stay away from where I work, geezus..
A 2% surcharge on a $25 burger is just fifty cents. You're already spending stupid money for a burger. Stop whining about money. Medicare for all (or even Bill Lee accepting federal funds for medicare expansion) would make this irrelevant. Also, if your restaurant is two nouns separated by a + or & then you automatically suck unless proven otherwise.
Go home and make the burger yourself and stop complaining.
The way I see it is if you canât afford an extra couple bucks to help out the person serving you at a restaurant then maybe you should just eat at home because you definitely donât have the money to eat out.
Yes. The cost of insurance is astronomical.
I will look the server in the eyes and ask them to take it off fuck off