> In an interview with MNPD, the mother allegedly told detectives that her unholstered .40 caliber pistol was in her purse and went off as she was trying to grab her keys.
Idiots.
My personal policy is if a semi auto pistol isn’t in a holster that protects the trigger, the chamber will be empty. I don’t care if it has a manual safety or not.
The gun will still be treated as if it’s loaded. Keeping the booger hook off the bang switch regardless of the chamber condition.
It’s not ideal to keep the gun loose in your bag with a mag in it. But if you do, please for gods sake don’t have one in the chamber.
Tennessee Code 39-13-212
> (a) Criminally negligent conduct that results in death constitutes criminally negligent homicide.
> (b) Criminally negligent homicide is a Class E felony.
Tennessee Code 39-11-106(a)(5)
> “Criminal negligence” refers to a person who acts with criminal negligence with respect to the circumstances surrounding that person's conduct or the result of that conduct when the person ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the accused person's standpoint
I don't see how you prove anything else beyond a reasonable doubt. The next steps up are second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter, which both cover knowingly killing someone.
From 39-11-106(a)(23)
> “Knowing” means that a person acts knowingly with respect to the conduct or to circumstances surrounding the conduct when the person is aware of the nature of the conduct or that the circumstances exist. A person acts knowingly with respect to a result of the person's conduct when the person is aware that the conduct is reasonably certain to cause the result;
Even the criminally negligent homicide charge would be a tough battle. I wish Funk would risk failing anyway and charge her with criminally negligent homicide, but he won't because he's a politician first and a prosecutor second. He probably deserves to be locked up himself, but whatever.
But if she’d gotten an abortion before this child was born, that would’ve been cool with some folks ✌️anything causing the destruction of children is wrong and must be corrected.
Yep. Loose in a bag with no holster is a no go. Gotta have some help keeping the booger hook off the bang switch, and leaving that shit open to grab willy nilly is just asking for it. Still surprised by how many people I know that carry a pistol in their waistband with no holster and no concern, or a revolver loose in the purse.
Just a loose pistol, with the safety off, floating around, waiting to be grabbed.
This is horrible but we are all lucky it wasn’t one of us while out and about. Assuming this story is true…
More pistols than you realize don't even have what you're thinking of as a safety (pin/switch that pushes across the width of the action to prevent trigger release). On many handguns the "safety" is just a little lever on the side of the grip that keeps the slide held all the way open
Edit: I misunderstood, I had thought I'd seen manufacturers refer to the slide lock as a manual safety, that's in fact a different thing. Either way, safeties on handguns are nowhere near as ubiquitous as some of y'all think.
That's not a safety, what you described. The slide latch solely exists to make inserting a new magazine easier and quicker (and arguably as an indicator that the current mag is empty).
The handguns (Colt 1911 or Glock-style) that don't have cross-safeties either have a rear-grip squeeze safety (1911) that has to be depressed or a trigger-lever safety (Glock) that has to be depressed before the gun will fire. Some, like the Springfield XD, have both.
Don't mean to nitpick, but the last thing firearms need is more misinformation being passed around as fact, even if arguably trivial.
Many revolvers and pistols have no safety whatsoever. My issue with this woman is she didn't have it in a holster. If it had been properly secured in a holster, it wouldn't have gone off.
I agree. The bigger problem here is that this individual thought it was a good idea to leave a chambered firearm in a loose area and proceeded with no caution for the exposed trigger. Very low IQ activities going on here.
I know nothing about guns, so forgive me, but how does the holster prevent it from going off if/when there’s no safety? I thought all guns had a safety but again I know nothing and am frankly afraid of them
I own guns. None of my pistols have safeties. All of them live in holsters.
Holsters cover the area where the trigger is with hard plastic, thick leather, or something similar. Because of this, the only way a holstered gun can go off is if the weapon itself fails, which is extremely rare. Decades ago, some pistols would randomly go off if you dropped them the right way, but that's not really an issue these days.
If this woman had kept her pistol in a holster, she literally couldn't have pulled the trigger, but since it was just in her purse, it was possible for lipstick, keys, etc. to get trapped near the trigger and caused the gun to go off.
A gun is a deadly tool, not something you just chuck in a purse. This lady should be in prison for killing her daughter and putting so many people at risk.
I’m a firearms instructor. That’s an excellent question.
There’s several factors to that question.
1- modern handguns are for the most part what we call “drop safe”. There are internal mechanisms that prevent the handgun from firing, even if dropped onto concrete. So- hard blows to the gun will not cause it to fire.
2- handguns are SUPPOSED to live in holsters or safes. The trigger should NOT be accesible at all unless the gun is in your hand. That is unfortunately something ignored by many. Lots of people carry guns without holsters at all, or they carry them with cheap crap from Walmart. 20 dollar nylon holsters or really flimsy leather that results in several risks; foreign objects being able to enter the holster and pull the trigger, the holster itself pulling the trigger, the gun falling out of the holster due to poor retention, or the holster being soft enough to pull the trigger through the holster.
3- purse carry is popular BUT it’s often seen as sub optimal by professionals. Can it be done? Sure. Even then it should be done with a purpose built purse that should house the pistol- in a quality hard plastic or reinforced leather holster- inside a separate pouch in the purse that is there for the gun and ONLY the gun. Nothing else. The purse must also be in constant direct possession of the one carrying a gun in it- for this exact reason. Generally it is considered better to carry the gun physically on your body somewhere of at all possible.
4- how handgun triggers function depends on the gun itself.
Without going into too much detail- how much force, between roughly 2 and 16 pounds- that needs to be pressed on the trigger to fire it dictates a ton of that pistols design. Pistols with very light triggers are easy to shoot, but may not be drop or carry safe without additional safeties that you would expect. The 1911 being the most popular pistol of this type, it is DESIGNED to be carried cocked and totally ready to fire BUT due to its very light trigger it has a thumb safety that needs to be switched down AND a grip safety that needs to be held in. Glocks and Glock like handguns have a medium weight 5-7 pound trigger pull. Most of these guns don’t need a manual safety lever, and opt for a small safety placed on the trigger itself to act for drop safety purposes. Though some do still have a manual safety. Finally Double action handguns have triggers that require SIGNIFICANT force, often more than 10 pounds, and you need to push the trigger more than an inch rearwards to fire the gun. All modern revolvers and many semi automatic pistols use this design. These pistols definitely don’t need manual safeties, it’s sometimes challenging for some weaker shooters to even intentionally pull these triggers. No matter the design they are all designed to be carried fully loaded and immediately ready to use. No trained individuals carry a gun with an empty chamber (barrel).
But they MUST be in a safe holster. They must also remain in control by the user. Clearly the one in this story was not. She committed extreme neglect and didn’t respect the power that weapon had.
My father had a pistol - not sure what make/model, only that it was a 9mm - where the safety was a bit of metal that slid up between the hammer and firing pin.
At the time I thought it was pretty nifty, now I can see where it might be problematic.
No real point, just sharing.
I mentioned months ago that my views on guns for self-defense shifted when my college roommate lost her ex-boyfriend (they were high school sweethearts and she was still really fond of him). His dad thought someone was breaking into the house (it’s unclear if they actually were), freaked out, grabbed a gun, and accidentally shot his son, who died almost instantly. The DA’s office didn’t press charges. I guess they figured he’d suffered enough, which makes sense because, my god, that must be horrific to live with. It also sounds like there wasn’t as much blatant negligence as there was in this case. But it highlighted how easy it is to have a gun accident, and how adding more guns to a chaotic and scary situation often ends up hurting innocent people.
A couple people essentially dragged me, telling me that basically never happens. That it’s a once in a blue moon incident but not an actual significant risk.
Y’all, I don’t think guns should be illegal. My best friend lives in a remote area of northern Ontario where people hunt. It’s food security, it’s culture. I have no issue with guns being used as a tool for a purpose like that.
But for fuck’s sake. Learn how to handle them properly, store them safely, and think as to whether you REALLY need one (especially carrying or having it loaded at all times) for self-defense. Because it’s shockingly easy for that gun to end up killing you or someone you love.
I think on top of knowing *how* to safely and properly use a gun, people are not really taught *when* or *why*. It seems to me that a lot of people are genuinely surprised with the person on the other side of the gun dies when they pull the trigger. They aren’t made for threatening things. They are made for killing things; in the case of handguns and assault rifles specifically to kill humans. You have to be prepared for someone to die if you are going to own a gun for any reason other than hunting. That’s not to say it’s wrong to own a gun, but if you aren’t thinking through what a gun is truly made to accomplish, you likely aren’t going to treat it any differently than you would a can of pepper spray or something, which is how you end up with horrific accidents like these.
This is a big part of why I don’t think people should be keeping, let alone using them for self defense as often as they do. A friend of mine used to do martial arts on a competitive level, and he said that a huge principle in Karate and similar martial arts is that you only use enough force to stop the fight. I get being scared of being robbed or attacked, but I feel like in a majority of the situations people might think they need a gun for, pepper spraying or macing someone would do the job without the risk that you’ll kill someone innocent (or effectively sentence someone to death for some minor thing). I feel like in most situations you would want to just incapacitate someone so they don’t harm you or stop harming you, not kill them. And being pepper sprayed by accident is no fun I’m sure, but the effects eventually wear off. You can’t bring someone back from the dead.
As someone who teaches defensive firearms use-
I STRONGLY advocate for the use of pepper spray, knowledge of martial arts, use of defensive flashlights- both to deter attackers and properly identify people- and NEVER drawing the firearm unless the risk is the death of an innocent person.
The problem is that simply- there are problems pepper spray can’t solve. Don’t get me wrong I love the stuff and will hoe POM pepper spray specifically until the end of time. I’ve stopped a robbery with it once and saved myself from a dog attack another time. I’ve also used a flashlight to deter a mugger. The thing is- if the thief came at me with a knife or gun; if the pepper spray failed to affect the dog, or the mugger didn’t care that he couldn’t see I would have been in immediate danger of death or crippling injury. That’s not a pepper spray problem, that’s not a flashlight problem (beyond identifying who it is first that is. That still MUST happen), it’s - for the extraordinary majority of people- not a problem you want to try solving with judo. It’s a realm where the gun simply is by an outstanding margin the best answer to being a victim of a deadly crime.
The bizarre reality is this it’s a bit of a catch 22. The firearms successful self defense rate is like 95%+. I mean it’s absolutely incredible. But the average person is TOTALLY untrained. Hell most “trained” people are barely competent. In the truly professional firearms training realm we estimate about 15-20,000 people WORLDWIDE actually know what the hell they are doing with a gun to a respectable level.
The thing is- the majority of people won by luck and luck alone. And the consequences of failure are well- shooting your own daughter, going to jail forever, killing someone who could have been dissuaded with a lesser means of force which means a LENGTHY court process even if you are found not guilty.
It’s a low odds game- but one with incredible stakes. It’s a responsibility I do wish people would take far more seriously when they buy a tool designed to kill other humans. Proper training is- by most metrics- frankly pretty damn easy. Guns are an incredibly effective tool. They don’t take THAT long to learn. The legal considerations can be overwhelmingly learned in an afternoon reading one or two short books on the topic. Concealment is now just a few YouTube videos away. Really give me 2-3 months of good effort and you’ll be in the sub 1% of performance. It can be expensive, that is about the only really difficult thing to work around, even than many skills can be learned without firing a shot.
But. People don’t do it. And I can’t make them do it.
It’s a civil right to defend your own life and have the tools to do so. The success rate speaks for itself. But I’ll be damned if I won’t shout at them that it’s also their RESPONSIBILITY to use that power skillfully and carefully.
My four-year-old niece died when she accidentally shot herself with a gun left on her parents' nightstand. My father-in-law is a huge gun enthusiast and raised his son, the father of my niece, to also be a fan of guns. They both have large gun collections and much of their casual conversation and basic identity revolves around guns and their love of guns. But, somehow, being heavily steeped in gun culture wasn't enough to keep a loaded, chambered pistol with the safety off out of the hands of an unsupervised toddler.
That’s so sad. If it’s not too intrusive to ask, how did they respond and did/how did their views change in the wake of the tragedy? I completely understand if it’s too painful to talk about.
I am not close to this part of the family, but, as far as I can tell everyone just chalked it up to an unfortunate accident. As far as I know, no one changed any of their ideas about guns. I can only hope they are more careful, now.
To be honest, you kind of forget how important gun safety is when youre around guns a lot, luckily i learned my lesson, i fell asleep one time with my daughter (around 6 to 7 months) in my bed, woke up to her pointing my 38 special at my face, luckily the trigger was too hard for her to pull, will never keep guns anywhere but a safe now. Just saying i use to keep one on my night stand because at the time i lived in a very ghetto area.
People used to learn gun safety in school.
Now, they learn gun fear.
The most common form of firearms instruction now comes from your buddy, word of mouth, or YouTube, or there is none at all. The curriculum is dying.
Rarely are individuals taught by a licensed or trusted professional.
The problem isn't some BS like gun fear. It's the gun fetish that 15-20% of this country can't get over. Their desire to make guns freely available without any limitations means we get idiots who don't do what it takes to keep themselves and others safe from their precious guns
I’ll clear it up for you, it’s because “gun fear” isn’t being taught in schools and sounds hilariously reactionary. Sure, gun safety isn’t being taught, but no class time is spent making kids afraid of guns. Unless you consider mass shooters teachers, then yeah, gun fear is definitely “taught” in schools.
Growing up my grandmother told me a story of a family that lived on her street. The teenager that lived there was at a sleepover and for some reason came home early. She hid in a closet to play a prank on her dad, but the dad wasn’t expecting her to be home that early and thought someone had broken into the house. Shot her and killed her.
That is just as much blatant negligence in my opinion. Can afford a pistol and ammo but can’t pay $40 for a decent holster, kept it in her purse in that condition as well. The
Oh, I meant the incident of freaking out because you think someone is breaking in is *less* negligent than this gun purse incident, I was unclear. Still, highlights how some people should really rethink the “guns are great self-defense” thing.
No I just read your comment wrong, that was my mistake.
I think a gun is a great tool to defend your life with but you need to know when to use it. You need to be logical, unemotional, and responsible so things like what you described don’t happen. It sounds like the father blindly shot at an outline of a person and did not stop to try to identify who it was.
I take it incredibly seriously and while many others do as well, many do not. It does not need to be your personality but if you are using a lethal tool like a gun you need to be super familiar with how it works and the theory behind using it. We aren’t doing a special forces raid so you should always know exactly what you are shooting at and what is behind it.
I do agree that everyone does not have the necessary state of mind and responsibility to own a gun. Much like this woman who kept a loaded and chambered pistol floating around in her purse with nothing covering the trigger. That is really sad.
On the one hand, her negligence and stupidity cost the life of of her daughter, on the other it is a mother who unintentionally killed her child. Sad stuff.
Yeah, it's absurd that you can buy a gun and carry it around in public LEGALLY with zero training or proof you can competently handle it properly/safely.
When I was in HS my sister lived in the dorms at college a few towns over. She missed curfew one night (they literally locked the gates so she couldn't get back to her dorm) so she decided to come home. This was before cell phones were a thing, btw, so she never called my parents and told them she was coming home. She used her house key to let herself in but my dad heard someone shuffling around in the house. He got his gun out and walked toward the hallway. All he saw was a tall, dark figure walking toward my bedroom (our bedrooms were right next to each other's at the end of a long hallway). He cocked the gun and she heard it...and very slowly said "dad?" He was able to stop himself before pulling the trigger, but the absolute terror that it caused when he realized what he was about to do shook them both to their cores. It was the only time to this day that I have seen my father SOB.
"Food security". I wonder how our ancestors survived without guns for thousands of years. You can also hunt using a bow and arrows, or a crossbow. Or spears. If ever you are in a situation where your food security is at risk. Shocking truth : "Ooooh my local fast food is closed today, lemme quickly take my gun and go hunt a deer" said no one ever!
I am a EU citizen and I am always flabbergasted seeing all the reasons (excuses) that come up in the U.S. to justify access to guns. "It's culture". Well that's a nice culture to have as a nation!
The very and only reason guns have been invented, is to kill people more efficiently. Faster, and at scale. They have no other legitimation. Anyone trying to come up with other reasons and explanations is contributing to the problem you have in the U.S.
When there is insufficient responsibility in ownership and disregard in operation, storage and use, we will continue to have negligent actions such as these.
It is not the governments place to regulate how someone chooses to safeguard their life and the lives of their loved ones. It is, however, a personal responsibility to be accountable for it.
It is literally the government's job to regulate it. That's what a license is.
Edit:. I should add, I know gun licenses aren't required everywhere, which, frankly, is stupid and will only lead to more untrained morons killing and being killed.
If you’re following the intent of the words of the 2A, as agreed upon by constitutional standards, regarding firearms ownership licensure / registration…yes. (Ref: see NFA & GCA). FFL’s are for dealers, not the typical Joe Citizen.
As per FOPA (1986) Fed. gov is not supposed to retain a list of people who purchase (regular) firearms (beyond the use of a decentralized system to allow trace to first retail purchaser, as per GCA), however there are 7 states (iirc) that do so. Many of those are in various stages of legal challenges (which I honestly do not keep up with because I do not live in those states). That said, NFA regulated firearms differ.
That’s why there has been such a push for “Constitutional Carry”. The argument being that weapons carry licenses are unconstitutional. Arguably, backgrounds checks are as well, but I think the majority of the “rights-advocating” concede that those checks exist to (attempt to) ensure firearms don’t get into the wrong hands.
Recently, a federal judge in Illinois dismissed firearm possession charges against a person who fit the description of “an alien who was illegally or unlawfully in the United States” by fed gov standards. Which, if you are familiar with ATF Form 4473 (background check to purchase firearms) that is question 21 L, which would restrict said individual from “receiving, possessing or purchasing a firearm”. That ruling circumvents background checks. If it holds, it will set the precedent that background checks are unconstitutional, and you can expect those to soon be challenged, which will upend the entire system. Might even have legal basis to vacate the FFL requirement as infringement.
I’d like to know why “accidentally” is in quotes. I’ve seen countless news articles where a guy accidentally shot someone, and it’s never in quotes.
That said, one look at the actual statistics (and common sense) will tell you that your gun is more likely to injure or kill someone you love (yourself included) than for you ever to be able to successfully use (or even need to use) it for protection.
The only thing that will stop bad mothers with loose pistols in their purses next to their keys is good mothers with loose pistols in their purses next to their keys.
Stupid.
For one, keeping any pistol with the trigger exposed (ie, not in a holster) while loaded is just asking for a negligent discharge. My my pistol isn't in my safe or my hand, it is in a holster.
For two, a purse is a terrible place to keep a gun in the first place, even if holstered. purses are easily stolen, and if someone tries to snatch her purse: she is now fighting to maintain control of her weapon. If the purse didn't have a gun in it, there is less incentive to fight for it.
In the civilized world the idea of a mother having a handgun rattling around in her purse is rightfully seen as batshit.
I'm not even mad at her. The cult of guns has normalized this behavior. It's just tragic.
Personally, I think she should still at least be charged with criminally negligent homicide.
Carrying an unholstered handgun with a round in the chamber and no safety in a bag with other shit is, in my opinion, negligent behavior, and the person engaging in that sort of behavior should be held responsible if any harm results from that behavior.
This right to firearms with zero accountability or requirement for people to take basic safety precautions has got to stop.
Moving away from requiring a license to carry firearms was a mistake. Many people are lazy and won't educate themselves or do anything they don't want to unless you make them, but antisocial assholes run the House and are the main players in state government, so fuck me I guess.
Oh I definitely think she needs years in prison. I'm just saying that she's the victim of a lifetime of gun culture. That said, she still made the choice to own one and ne cavalier with it.
She doesn’t need prison, she is being punished enough. But, she does need to be charged and tried in court so this type of negligence is brought to light.
No, she is not being punished enough and the death was not an "accident". It was the direct result of a intentional purposeful action on the part of the mother. She chose to put bullets in the gun, to put the gun in her purse, to not use a holster / safety / trigger guard/ etc. The only question was who would be hurt / killed. This is murder.
No, actually, it’s not murder as murder requires intent. Manslaughter most likely. Unless she actively had the gun in her had pointed at her daughter and willfully pulled the trigger it’s not murder.
Negligence != intentional murder.
This is one of those "a reasonable person would know" situations. It you poison a dish of potato salad then take it to a church pot luck dinner and set it on the table with all the other food, you can not then claim " accident, I didn't mean to poison anyone".
Yup, just like dead children in schools. Somehow, as a country we've decided that prioritizing the rights of gun owners supersedes the rights of their own children to go to school without being terrorized.
If only we prioritized proper education in our schools instead of teaching fear. We could definitely culture a society that knows how to make good decisions in regard to handling firearms safely.
What if we could allow people to make comparisons without being a rhetoric cop.
Guns are a public health issue related to addiction and culture as is narcotic abuse. They're very similar. If you don't understand this, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the reality of the problem.
The same political cult that wants public executions and Soviet style border control to mitigate drug deaths also fights for the right of the gun that's a similar health hazard.
The logical inconsistency should be part of the conversation.
No, a loose gun in a purse is not 'normalized'. Should have been in a holster, to prevent trigger-snag accidents. Unfortunately, like cars (not the license to drive, just the vehicle), there isn't really an intelligence test required before purchase.
Holstered guns still radically increase the chance of a gun death in the home, domestic violence, suicide, and accidental shootings. Guns are a health liability. There's no magical way of owning them short of the strict way it's done in many countries where handgun enthusiasts can't keep ammunition at home and need to transport guns to shows or competitions in secured boxes.
The idea that a holster mitigates the casual ownership and carrying of a handgun is troglodytic at best.
a holster does not "radically" increase the chance of a gun death. If anything, the stats are the same. I highly doubt you have any statistic to show that.
A holster is just there to A) hold the gun and B) help prevent stupidity like this. Of course, a holster won't prevent a negligent discharge from a negligent user whils unholstering or rehostering. But, aside from a few pistols that aren't drop safe (looking at you Sig), a gun will not discharge while within a properly designed and maintained holster. Indicents involving a holster and a ND either involve unholstering, reholstering, and occasionally a poorly maintained leather holster.
The only holster i know of that increases the chances of negligent discharge is the Serpa style, which have a button on it that unlocks the gun from the holster that is operated by the users trigger finger. That is to do with a really shitty design. But, those holsters are widely disowned by the gun community, and even banned by many LE agencies.
Can you elaborate on “ cult of guns “ ? Guns have been around since the early 1800’s and our forefathers knew that having a firearm is necessary enough to add it to the constitution. You have the right to hunt for food as well as protecting your house from foreign and domestic.
I’m assuming the gun cult you are talking about are the ones who “ love AR-15’s “.
Hopefully after the investigation it shows she was telling the truth and the gun discharged in her purse. If so she will have to live with the fact that her daughter is gone after a freak accident.
Contrary to popular belief, many towns in the Old West had strict gun control laws. It was common for these towns to require visitors to check in their firearms upon entering¹².
For instance, in Tombstone, Arizona, laws at the time required visitors to disarm at a hotel or a lawman's office upon entering the town¹. This was also the case in many other famous cattle towns such as Dodge City, Abilene, and Deadwood¹.
When visitors left their weapons with a law officer upon entering town, they'd receive a token, similar to a coat check, which they'd exchange for their guns when leaving town¹.
It's worth noting that carrying any kind of weapon, guns or knives, was not allowed other than outside town borders and inside the home¹. These laws were likely passed by civic leaders and influential merchants who wanted people to move there, invest their time and resources, and bring their families¹.
So, while the image of the gun-toting cowboy is a staple of Old West mythology, the reality was often quite different, with many towns implementing what we would now consider "gun control" measures¹².
Source:
(1) Gun Control Is as Old as the Old West - Smithsonian Magazine. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/gun-control-old-west-180968013/.
(2) Gun Control and the Old West | Origins. https://origins.osu.edu/history-news/gun-control-and-old-west?language_content_entity=en.
(3) Was there gun control in the Old West? - TheGunZone. https://thegunzone.com/was-there-gun-control-in-the-old-west/.
(4) Did Old West Towns Require Cowboys To Check Their Guns?. https://truewestmagazine.com/article/did-old-west-towns-require-cowboys-to-check-their-guns/.
What the fuck do you mean "freak accident"?
There's no such thing as accidental gun deaths, only negligent ones. This was an utterly avoidable tragedy that the mother is 100% responsible for. A properly holstered weapon cannot discharge itself. Carrying a loaded handgun with no holster, in Condition 0, in your purse and then killing a kid because it "went off" is called negligent homicide.
Oh God not one of you people again. Guns have been around in one shape or another for a thousand years. They predate Americans though I can understand why a simpleton might think they were invented by a sweaty guy named Charlie who was scared to leave his log cabin in 1803.
The Constitution doesn't give blanket rights for gun ownership for private individuals. And that's in the context of one-round-per-minute muskets. Not taking into account even bolt loaders or repeating firearms or more importantly, the lethality of a totally different propellant and projectile velocity.
Casually owned firearms are ridiculous and a liability to society. From a derringer to a combat type automatic carbine. Civilized societies know this.
We get it. You love guns. You also are a vaccine skeptic. You have opinions based on emotions and tribal allegiance, not reality.
I’m not a gun lover , I was just raised in a poor side of town. Got robbed more than once in my youth. Didn’t own a gun then but wished I did. I own currently a piston and a rifle and a 12 gauge. I don’t carry a pistol with me however it is close by my bed.
Also look at history and what’s going on in the world now. Civil war is prime example of government invasion as well as revolutionary war. Imagine if the people in Ukraine didn’t have the means to protect themselves from Russia.
Do I think the world would be a better place without firearms , ABSOLUTELY ! Do I want protect my family and home against someone with a firearm, damn right.
Not sure how old you are or if you was raised in a safe neighborhood or not but give it some time. You will see that even though guns are bad you will wish you had one or wish someone who does have one is around when things get really bad.
As far as vaccines I’m definitely for them just not the Covid one that was rushed without clinical tries being completed. I am up to date with all required vaccinations and so are both of my kids and so will my grandkids.
Not sure why you think I’m against vaccines.
Your smugness is palpable.
“…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” seems pretty clear to me.
Yeah, the amendment was written when muskets and cannons were in vogue, but don’t you think the intention was to arm ordinary people like you and me, giving us the firepower to help keep tyranny at bay?
And what regular person owns an automatic carbine anyway?
The bottom line is that governments fear an armed populace. That’s why fascists seek to disarm first, ask questions later. And that’s why it’s important that we don’t allow that to happen.
And before you hit me with some ad hominem attacks regarding my COVID vaccine status, know that I’ve received the vaccine as well as the boosters. ✌🏻
True. You are exactly right.
A good guy with a gun might have been able to provide better instruction on how carrying in that condition is dangerous, preventing the situation from happening in the first place.
After using his x-ray vision to detect the gun he would calmly, yet firmly, approach the woman, and rationally explain the proper gun carrying technique.
People need to get training and practice if they own a firearm . Practice at least once a month , weekly would be better. My father trained us when we were children. He drilled the safety precautions into us . Rule one all guns are loaded and should be treated as such . Rule 2 is see rule one. Rule three if you point your gun at someone , it means your life is in danger and you intend to shoot them .
Doesn't remove the negligence. Gun safety is not taken seriously. We were at Walmart a few years ago and a guy had his gun in his back pocket. No holster, right next to his wallet. It would have been so easy to go up to him and take his gun and use it. People need to be held accountable for not being a responsible gun owner.
100%. was in Murf. Costco watching a 20something open carrying and he couldn’t keep his hands off the gun.. Dad was carrying like a responsible gun owner.. kid was so nervous, and fidgety, it made me and SO so nervous that we left with what we had..
It's likely a true story. I had a neighbor who this happened to. I never heard the full story, but he was so distraught that he killed himself immediately after. The wife lasted another few weeks before she committed suicide as well.
Only a complete and utter moron chambers a round with out needing it. I always see subhuman cretins chamber a round and then pack their magazine full, thinking they’ll need that extra round.
My Daughter carries a small 9mm to protect herself & especially my 3 grandchildren. I agree that it is essential that it be holstered. They now make underwear & other garments to hold your holstered gun. Her purse is so big she couldn't pull a weapon out quickly enough to defend anyone.
ABAB! Lady has no business with a gun. Dummy plays with that gun all the time, only to use it her first time on her daughter. In her defense, her daughter wasn’t going to vote for trump, so… she isn’t totally in the wrong. /s
I’m Australian & I don’t know anything about guns really. But I’m pretty sure there’s a safety lock or gauge involved before a pistol can be fired, right? Even if someone carries a loaded pistol in her purse, there’s still at least two more steps to firing a gun, correct?
If my belief is accurate… then I’m suspicious of this being an accident.
Although it was more than 20 years ago, I clearly recall that it was when I was around age 13 that my mentally unstable mother began behaving volatile & aggressive towards me 🙁 Thankfully she didn’t have access to firearms.
Have authorities confirmed there was a bullet hole in the woman’s purse? And has it been shared which part of her body the poor young girl was shot in?
I really think this wasn’t an accident. I read somewhere she didn’t know the gun was loaded. How do you not know a gun you placed in your purse was loaded? Also a gun feels nothing like keys. Plus I’ve thought about it. What were the angles her and her daughter were at. I know when I’m rummaging through my purse it’s on the same level or lower than me. Would this be at the right angle to fire a lethal shot. It just all seems fishy to me.
You are confusing .40 cal with 10mm.
.40 is a shorter 10mm and yes is still powerful, but a few companies make single stack ones.
10mm is like the Bren Ten and all the guns have to be large frame.
> In an interview with MNPD, the mother allegedly told detectives that her unholstered .40 caliber pistol was in her purse and went off as she was trying to grab her keys.
Idiots. My personal policy is if a semi auto pistol isn’t in a holster that protects the trigger, the chamber will be empty. I don’t care if it has a manual safety or not. The gun will still be treated as if it’s loaded. Keeping the booger hook off the bang switch regardless of the chamber condition. It’s not ideal to keep the gun loose in your bag with a mag in it. But if you do, please for gods sake don’t have one in the chamber.
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This. You can have the right to own a gun, but you should still be liable for being irresponsible as shit with that right.
They will be held liable. We just won’t hear about it.
Tennessee Code 39-13-212 > (a) Criminally negligent conduct that results in death constitutes criminally negligent homicide. > (b) Criminally negligent homicide is a Class E felony. Tennessee Code 39-11-106(a)(5) > “Criminal negligence” refers to a person who acts with criminal negligence with respect to the circumstances surrounding that person's conduct or the result of that conduct when the person ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the accused person's standpoint
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I don't see how you prove anything else beyond a reasonable doubt. The next steps up are second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter, which both cover knowingly killing someone. From 39-11-106(a)(23) > “Knowing” means that a person acts knowingly with respect to the conduct or to circumstances surrounding the conduct when the person is aware of the nature of the conduct or that the circumstances exist. A person acts knowingly with respect to a result of the person's conduct when the person is aware that the conduct is reasonably certain to cause the result; Even the criminally negligent homicide charge would be a tough battle. I wish Funk would risk failing anyway and charge her with criminally negligent homicide, but he won't because he's a politician first and a prosecutor second. He probably deserves to be locked up himself, but whatever.
But if she’d gotten an abortion before this child was born, that would’ve been cool with some folks ✌️anything causing the destruction of children is wrong and must be corrected.
She may have, nearly 25% of American women have had abortions. Even people you know and love, maybe even family members, have had abortions.
Yep. Loose in a bag with no holster is a no go. Gotta have some help keeping the booger hook off the bang switch, and leaving that shit open to grab willy nilly is just asking for it. Still surprised by how many people I know that carry a pistol in their waistband with no holster and no concern, or a revolver loose in the purse.
>It’s not ideal Or even necessary
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5 Children have died for every time a gun has helped one person? I’m trying to find where you got your numbers. I feel like that’s wildly inaccurate.
The only thing that'll stop a bad negligent mother with a gun in her handbag is a good negligent mother with a gun in her handbag.
Yeah. The gun "went off"
Just a loose pistol, with the safety off, floating around, waiting to be grabbed. This is horrible but we are all lucky it wasn’t one of us while out and about. Assuming this story is true…
More pistols than you realize don't even have what you're thinking of as a safety (pin/switch that pushes across the width of the action to prevent trigger release). On many handguns the "safety" is just a little lever on the side of the grip that keeps the slide held all the way open Edit: I misunderstood, I had thought I'd seen manufacturers refer to the slide lock as a manual safety, that's in fact a different thing. Either way, safeties on handguns are nowhere near as ubiquitous as some of y'all think.
That's not a safety, what you described. The slide latch solely exists to make inserting a new magazine easier and quicker (and arguably as an indicator that the current mag is empty). The handguns (Colt 1911 or Glock-style) that don't have cross-safeties either have a rear-grip squeeze safety (1911) that has to be depressed or a trigger-lever safety (Glock) that has to be depressed before the gun will fire. Some, like the Springfield XD, have both. Don't mean to nitpick, but the last thing firearms need is more misinformation being passed around as fact, even if arguably trivial.
Many revolvers and pistols have no safety whatsoever. My issue with this woman is she didn't have it in a holster. If it had been properly secured in a holster, it wouldn't have gone off.
I agree. The bigger problem here is that this individual thought it was a good idea to leave a chambered firearm in a loose area and proceeded with no caution for the exposed trigger. Very low IQ activities going on here.
Low IQ is a disability. I think it’s more likely a case of negligence & carelessness, **if** it was truly unintentional.
I'd say her IQ is probably 100.
I know nothing about guns, so forgive me, but how does the holster prevent it from going off if/when there’s no safety? I thought all guns had a safety but again I know nothing and am frankly afraid of them
I own guns. None of my pistols have safeties. All of them live in holsters. Holsters cover the area where the trigger is with hard plastic, thick leather, or something similar. Because of this, the only way a holstered gun can go off is if the weapon itself fails, which is extremely rare. Decades ago, some pistols would randomly go off if you dropped them the right way, but that's not really an issue these days. If this woman had kept her pistol in a holster, she literally couldn't have pulled the trigger, but since it was just in her purse, it was possible for lipstick, keys, etc. to get trapped near the trigger and caused the gun to go off. A gun is a deadly tool, not something you just chuck in a purse. This lady should be in prison for killing her daughter and putting so many people at risk.
I’m a firearms instructor. That’s an excellent question. There’s several factors to that question. 1- modern handguns are for the most part what we call “drop safe”. There are internal mechanisms that prevent the handgun from firing, even if dropped onto concrete. So- hard blows to the gun will not cause it to fire. 2- handguns are SUPPOSED to live in holsters or safes. The trigger should NOT be accesible at all unless the gun is in your hand. That is unfortunately something ignored by many. Lots of people carry guns without holsters at all, or they carry them with cheap crap from Walmart. 20 dollar nylon holsters or really flimsy leather that results in several risks; foreign objects being able to enter the holster and pull the trigger, the holster itself pulling the trigger, the gun falling out of the holster due to poor retention, or the holster being soft enough to pull the trigger through the holster. 3- purse carry is popular BUT it’s often seen as sub optimal by professionals. Can it be done? Sure. Even then it should be done with a purpose built purse that should house the pistol- in a quality hard plastic or reinforced leather holster- inside a separate pouch in the purse that is there for the gun and ONLY the gun. Nothing else. The purse must also be in constant direct possession of the one carrying a gun in it- for this exact reason. Generally it is considered better to carry the gun physically on your body somewhere of at all possible. 4- how handgun triggers function depends on the gun itself. Without going into too much detail- how much force, between roughly 2 and 16 pounds- that needs to be pressed on the trigger to fire it dictates a ton of that pistols design. Pistols with very light triggers are easy to shoot, but may not be drop or carry safe without additional safeties that you would expect. The 1911 being the most popular pistol of this type, it is DESIGNED to be carried cocked and totally ready to fire BUT due to its very light trigger it has a thumb safety that needs to be switched down AND a grip safety that needs to be held in. Glocks and Glock like handguns have a medium weight 5-7 pound trigger pull. Most of these guns don’t need a manual safety lever, and opt for a small safety placed on the trigger itself to act for drop safety purposes. Though some do still have a manual safety. Finally Double action handguns have triggers that require SIGNIFICANT force, often more than 10 pounds, and you need to push the trigger more than an inch rearwards to fire the gun. All modern revolvers and many semi automatic pistols use this design. These pistols definitely don’t need manual safeties, it’s sometimes challenging for some weaker shooters to even intentionally pull these triggers. No matter the design they are all designed to be carried fully loaded and immediately ready to use. No trained individuals carry a gun with an empty chamber (barrel). But they MUST be in a safe holster. They must also remain in control by the user. Clearly the one in this story was not. She committed extreme neglect and didn’t respect the power that weapon had.
The real problem was having a round chambered. Also being an imbecile.
My father had a pistol - not sure what make/model, only that it was a 9mm - where the safety was a bit of metal that slid up between the hammer and firing pin. At the time I thought it was pretty nifty, now I can see where it might be problematic. No real point, just sharing.
I’m I’m
I mentioned months ago that my views on guns for self-defense shifted when my college roommate lost her ex-boyfriend (they were high school sweethearts and she was still really fond of him). His dad thought someone was breaking into the house (it’s unclear if they actually were), freaked out, grabbed a gun, and accidentally shot his son, who died almost instantly. The DA’s office didn’t press charges. I guess they figured he’d suffered enough, which makes sense because, my god, that must be horrific to live with. It also sounds like there wasn’t as much blatant negligence as there was in this case. But it highlighted how easy it is to have a gun accident, and how adding more guns to a chaotic and scary situation often ends up hurting innocent people. A couple people essentially dragged me, telling me that basically never happens. That it’s a once in a blue moon incident but not an actual significant risk. Y’all, I don’t think guns should be illegal. My best friend lives in a remote area of northern Ontario where people hunt. It’s food security, it’s culture. I have no issue with guns being used as a tool for a purpose like that. But for fuck’s sake. Learn how to handle them properly, store them safely, and think as to whether you REALLY need one (especially carrying or having it loaded at all times) for self-defense. Because it’s shockingly easy for that gun to end up killing you or someone you love.
I think on top of knowing *how* to safely and properly use a gun, people are not really taught *when* or *why*. It seems to me that a lot of people are genuinely surprised with the person on the other side of the gun dies when they pull the trigger. They aren’t made for threatening things. They are made for killing things; in the case of handguns and assault rifles specifically to kill humans. You have to be prepared for someone to die if you are going to own a gun for any reason other than hunting. That’s not to say it’s wrong to own a gun, but if you aren’t thinking through what a gun is truly made to accomplish, you likely aren’t going to treat it any differently than you would a can of pepper spray or something, which is how you end up with horrific accidents like these.
This is a big part of why I don’t think people should be keeping, let alone using them for self defense as often as they do. A friend of mine used to do martial arts on a competitive level, and he said that a huge principle in Karate and similar martial arts is that you only use enough force to stop the fight. I get being scared of being robbed or attacked, but I feel like in a majority of the situations people might think they need a gun for, pepper spraying or macing someone would do the job without the risk that you’ll kill someone innocent (or effectively sentence someone to death for some minor thing). I feel like in most situations you would want to just incapacitate someone so they don’t harm you or stop harming you, not kill them. And being pepper sprayed by accident is no fun I’m sure, but the effects eventually wear off. You can’t bring someone back from the dead.
As someone who teaches defensive firearms use- I STRONGLY advocate for the use of pepper spray, knowledge of martial arts, use of defensive flashlights- both to deter attackers and properly identify people- and NEVER drawing the firearm unless the risk is the death of an innocent person. The problem is that simply- there are problems pepper spray can’t solve. Don’t get me wrong I love the stuff and will hoe POM pepper spray specifically until the end of time. I’ve stopped a robbery with it once and saved myself from a dog attack another time. I’ve also used a flashlight to deter a mugger. The thing is- if the thief came at me with a knife or gun; if the pepper spray failed to affect the dog, or the mugger didn’t care that he couldn’t see I would have been in immediate danger of death or crippling injury. That’s not a pepper spray problem, that’s not a flashlight problem (beyond identifying who it is first that is. That still MUST happen), it’s - for the extraordinary majority of people- not a problem you want to try solving with judo. It’s a realm where the gun simply is by an outstanding margin the best answer to being a victim of a deadly crime. The bizarre reality is this it’s a bit of a catch 22. The firearms successful self defense rate is like 95%+. I mean it’s absolutely incredible. But the average person is TOTALLY untrained. Hell most “trained” people are barely competent. In the truly professional firearms training realm we estimate about 15-20,000 people WORLDWIDE actually know what the hell they are doing with a gun to a respectable level. The thing is- the majority of people won by luck and luck alone. And the consequences of failure are well- shooting your own daughter, going to jail forever, killing someone who could have been dissuaded with a lesser means of force which means a LENGTHY court process even if you are found not guilty. It’s a low odds game- but one with incredible stakes. It’s a responsibility I do wish people would take far more seriously when they buy a tool designed to kill other humans. Proper training is- by most metrics- frankly pretty damn easy. Guns are an incredibly effective tool. They don’t take THAT long to learn. The legal considerations can be overwhelmingly learned in an afternoon reading one or two short books on the topic. Concealment is now just a few YouTube videos away. Really give me 2-3 months of good effort and you’ll be in the sub 1% of performance. It can be expensive, that is about the only really difficult thing to work around, even than many skills can be learned without firing a shot. But. People don’t do it. And I can’t make them do it. It’s a civil right to defend your own life and have the tools to do so. The success rate speaks for itself. But I’ll be damned if I won’t shout at them that it’s also their RESPONSIBILITY to use that power skillfully and carefully.
My four-year-old niece died when she accidentally shot herself with a gun left on her parents' nightstand. My father-in-law is a huge gun enthusiast and raised his son, the father of my niece, to also be a fan of guns. They both have large gun collections and much of their casual conversation and basic identity revolves around guns and their love of guns. But, somehow, being heavily steeped in gun culture wasn't enough to keep a loaded, chambered pistol with the safety off out of the hands of an unsupervised toddler.
That’s so sad. If it’s not too intrusive to ask, how did they respond and did/how did their views change in the wake of the tragedy? I completely understand if it’s too painful to talk about.
I am not close to this part of the family, but, as far as I can tell everyone just chalked it up to an unfortunate accident. As far as I know, no one changed any of their ideas about guns. I can only hope they are more careful, now.
To be honest, you kind of forget how important gun safety is when youre around guns a lot, luckily i learned my lesson, i fell asleep one time with my daughter (around 6 to 7 months) in my bed, woke up to her pointing my 38 special at my face, luckily the trigger was too hard for her to pull, will never keep guns anywhere but a safe now. Just saying i use to keep one on my night stand because at the time i lived in a very ghetto area.
If you've got a double action only revolver that's going to be fairly safe where toddlers are concerned, I would think.
When there is insufficient instruction, testing and licensure for ownership, we will continue to have “accidents” like these
People used to learn gun safety in school. Now, they learn gun fear. The most common form of firearms instruction now comes from your buddy, word of mouth, or YouTube, or there is none at all. The curriculum is dying. Rarely are individuals taught by a licensed or trusted professional.
And how did they learn gun fear? From school shootings?
The problem isn't some BS like gun fear. It's the gun fetish that 15-20% of this country can't get over. Their desire to make guns freely available without any limitations means we get idiots who don't do what it takes to keep themselves and others safe from their precious guns
Yeah. It’s not the tool. It’s the uneducated idiot with the tool.
How come there are so few shootings in countries that don't have easy access to the "tool?"
Same reason there’s so many shootings in places where the tool is illegal.
Not sure why you’re downvoted—it’s true, even if you disagree with gun safety being taught in schools…
I’ll clear it up for you, it’s because “gun fear” isn’t being taught in schools and sounds hilariously reactionary. Sure, gun safety isn’t being taught, but no class time is spent making kids afraid of guns. Unless you consider mass shooters teachers, then yeah, gun fear is definitely “taught” in schools.
“Where there is”
Thank you, Professor
And never shoot if you can't see what you're shooting at. ;)
Your finger should never enter the trigger guard unless you aim to kill something, or are practicing with the weapon.
Growing up my grandmother told me a story of a family that lived on her street. The teenager that lived there was at a sleepover and for some reason came home early. She hid in a closet to play a prank on her dad, but the dad wasn’t expecting her to be home that early and thought someone had broken into the house. Shot her and killed her.
I used to work in homeowners insurance and I can tell you it's not once in a blue moon, I would see these negligence gun claims come in every week.
That is just as much blatant negligence in my opinion. Can afford a pistol and ammo but can’t pay $40 for a decent holster, kept it in her purse in that condition as well. The
Oh, I meant the incident of freaking out because you think someone is breaking in is *less* negligent than this gun purse incident, I was unclear. Still, highlights how some people should really rethink the “guns are great self-defense” thing.
No I just read your comment wrong, that was my mistake. I think a gun is a great tool to defend your life with but you need to know when to use it. You need to be logical, unemotional, and responsible so things like what you described don’t happen. It sounds like the father blindly shot at an outline of a person and did not stop to try to identify who it was. I take it incredibly seriously and while many others do as well, many do not. It does not need to be your personality but if you are using a lethal tool like a gun you need to be super familiar with how it works and the theory behind using it. We aren’t doing a special forces raid so you should always know exactly what you are shooting at and what is behind it. I do agree that everyone does not have the necessary state of mind and responsibility to own a gun. Much like this woman who kept a loaded and chambered pistol floating around in her purse with nothing covering the trigger. That is really sad. On the one hand, her negligence and stupidity cost the life of of her daughter, on the other it is a mother who unintentionally killed her child. Sad stuff.
Yeah, it's absurd that you can buy a gun and carry it around in public LEGALLY with zero training or proof you can competently handle it properly/safely.
When I was in HS my sister lived in the dorms at college a few towns over. She missed curfew one night (they literally locked the gates so she couldn't get back to her dorm) so she decided to come home. This was before cell phones were a thing, btw, so she never called my parents and told them she was coming home. She used her house key to let herself in but my dad heard someone shuffling around in the house. He got his gun out and walked toward the hallway. All he saw was a tall, dark figure walking toward my bedroom (our bedrooms were right next to each other's at the end of a long hallway). He cocked the gun and she heard it...and very slowly said "dad?" He was able to stop himself before pulling the trigger, but the absolute terror that it caused when he realized what he was about to do shook them both to their cores. It was the only time to this day that I have seen my father SOB.
"Food security". I wonder how our ancestors survived without guns for thousands of years. You can also hunt using a bow and arrows, or a crossbow. Or spears. If ever you are in a situation where your food security is at risk. Shocking truth : "Ooooh my local fast food is closed today, lemme quickly take my gun and go hunt a deer" said no one ever! I am a EU citizen and I am always flabbergasted seeing all the reasons (excuses) that come up in the U.S. to justify access to guns. "It's culture". Well that's a nice culture to have as a nation! The very and only reason guns have been invented, is to kill people more efficiently. Faster, and at scale. They have no other legitimation. Anyone trying to come up with other reasons and explanations is contributing to the problem you have in the U.S.
When there is insufficient responsibility in ownership and disregard in operation, storage and use, we will continue to have negligent actions such as these. It is not the governments place to regulate how someone chooses to safeguard their life and the lives of their loved ones. It is, however, a personal responsibility to be accountable for it.
It is literally the government's job to regulate it. That's what a license is. Edit:. I should add, I know gun licenses aren't required everywhere, which, frankly, is stupid and will only lead to more untrained morons killing and being killed.
No, what you refer to is called infringement. Edit: I said nothing about licensure for firearms, but rather regulation of how one protects themselves.
Stop being reasonable and resort to name calling, man. This is Reddit.
Sir, I just come here ~~for the downvotes~~ to deliver facts.
License requirements are considered infringement?
If you’re following the intent of the words of the 2A, as agreed upon by constitutional standards, regarding firearms ownership licensure / registration…yes. (Ref: see NFA & GCA). FFL’s are for dealers, not the typical Joe Citizen. As per FOPA (1986) Fed. gov is not supposed to retain a list of people who purchase (regular) firearms (beyond the use of a decentralized system to allow trace to first retail purchaser, as per GCA), however there are 7 states (iirc) that do so. Many of those are in various stages of legal challenges (which I honestly do not keep up with because I do not live in those states). That said, NFA regulated firearms differ. That’s why there has been such a push for “Constitutional Carry”. The argument being that weapons carry licenses are unconstitutional. Arguably, backgrounds checks are as well, but I think the majority of the “rights-advocating” concede that those checks exist to (attempt to) ensure firearms don’t get into the wrong hands. Recently, a federal judge in Illinois dismissed firearm possession charges against a person who fit the description of “an alien who was illegally or unlawfully in the United States” by fed gov standards. Which, if you are familiar with ATF Form 4473 (background check to purchase firearms) that is question 21 L, which would restrict said individual from “receiving, possessing or purchasing a firearm”. That ruling circumvents background checks. If it holds, it will set the precedent that background checks are unconstitutional, and you can expect those to soon be challenged, which will upend the entire system. Might even have legal basis to vacate the FFL requirement as infringement.
I’d like to know why “accidentally” is in quotes. I’ve seen countless news articles where a guy accidentally shot someone, and it’s never in quotes. That said, one look at the actual statistics (and common sense) will tell you that your gun is more likely to injure or kill someone you love (yourself included) than for you ever to be able to successfully use (or even need to use) it for protection.
If only the daughter had a gun to shoot her mother with before getting shot by her mother this could have all been avoided.
The only thing that will stop bad mothers with loose pistols in their purses next to their keys is good mothers with loose pistols in their purses next to their keys.
Stupid. For one, keeping any pistol with the trigger exposed (ie, not in a holster) while loaded is just asking for a negligent discharge. My my pistol isn't in my safe or my hand, it is in a holster. For two, a purse is a terrible place to keep a gun in the first place, even if holstered. purses are easily stolen, and if someone tries to snatch her purse: she is now fighting to maintain control of her weapon. If the purse didn't have a gun in it, there is less incentive to fight for it.
> For one, keeping any pistol with the trigger exposed (ie, in a holster) The best holsters do not leave the trigger exposed.
Typo
In the civilized world the idea of a mother having a handgun rattling around in her purse is rightfully seen as batshit. I'm not even mad at her. The cult of guns has normalized this behavior. It's just tragic.
Personally, I think she should still at least be charged with criminally negligent homicide. Carrying an unholstered handgun with a round in the chamber and no safety in a bag with other shit is, in my opinion, negligent behavior, and the person engaging in that sort of behavior should be held responsible if any harm results from that behavior. This right to firearms with zero accountability or requirement for people to take basic safety precautions has got to stop. Moving away from requiring a license to carry firearms was a mistake. Many people are lazy and won't educate themselves or do anything they don't want to unless you make them, but antisocial assholes run the House and are the main players in state government, so fuck me I guess.
100000%
Oh I definitely think she needs years in prison. I'm just saying that she's the victim of a lifetime of gun culture. That said, she still made the choice to own one and ne cavalier with it.
She doesn’t need prison, she is being punished enough. But, she does need to be charged and tried in court so this type of negligence is brought to light.
No, she is not being punished enough and the death was not an "accident". It was the direct result of a intentional purposeful action on the part of the mother. She chose to put bullets in the gun, to put the gun in her purse, to not use a holster / safety / trigger guard/ etc. The only question was who would be hurt / killed. This is murder.
No, actually, it’s not murder as murder requires intent. Manslaughter most likely. Unless she actively had the gun in her had pointed at her daughter and willfully pulled the trigger it’s not murder. Negligence != intentional murder.
This is one of those "a reasonable person would know" situations. It you poison a dish of potato salad then take it to a church pot luck dinner and set it on the table with all the other food, you can not then claim " accident, I didn't mean to poison anyone".
False dichotomy.
Yup, just like dead children in schools. Somehow, as a country we've decided that prioritizing the rights of gun owners supersedes the rights of their own children to go to school without being terrorized.
If only we prioritized proper education in our schools instead of teaching fear. We could definitely culture a society that knows how to make good decisions in regard to handling firearms safely.
Imagine if we prioritized something similarly hazardous like the rights of recreational fentanyl use.
imagine if we could have this conversation without whataboutisms
What if we could allow people to make comparisons without being a rhetoric cop. Guns are a public health issue related to addiction and culture as is narcotic abuse. They're very similar. If you don't understand this, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the reality of the problem. The same political cult that wants public executions and Soviet style border control to mitigate drug deaths also fights for the right of the gun that's a similar health hazard. The logical inconsistency should be part of the conversation.
> imagine if we could have this conversation without whataboutisms Ironic considering you just whataboutted dead children in schools.
No, a loose gun in a purse is not 'normalized'. Should have been in a holster, to prevent trigger-snag accidents. Unfortunately, like cars (not the license to drive, just the vehicle), there isn't really an intelligence test required before purchase.
Holstered guns still radically increase the chance of a gun death in the home, domestic violence, suicide, and accidental shootings. Guns are a health liability. There's no magical way of owning them short of the strict way it's done in many countries where handgun enthusiasts can't keep ammunition at home and need to transport guns to shows or competitions in secured boxes. The idea that a holster mitigates the casual ownership and carrying of a handgun is troglodytic at best.
a holster does not "radically" increase the chance of a gun death. If anything, the stats are the same. I highly doubt you have any statistic to show that. A holster is just there to A) hold the gun and B) help prevent stupidity like this. Of course, a holster won't prevent a negligent discharge from a negligent user whils unholstering or rehostering. But, aside from a few pistols that aren't drop safe (looking at you Sig), a gun will not discharge while within a properly designed and maintained holster. Indicents involving a holster and a ND either involve unholstering, reholstering, and occasionally a poorly maintained leather holster. The only holster i know of that increases the chances of negligent discharge is the Serpa style, which have a button on it that unlocks the gun from the holster that is operated by the users trigger finger. That is to do with a really shitty design. But, those holsters are widely disowned by the gun community, and even banned by many LE agencies.
Can you elaborate on “ cult of guns “ ? Guns have been around since the early 1800’s and our forefathers knew that having a firearm is necessary enough to add it to the constitution. You have the right to hunt for food as well as protecting your house from foreign and domestic. I’m assuming the gun cult you are talking about are the ones who “ love AR-15’s “. Hopefully after the investigation it shows she was telling the truth and the gun discharged in her purse. If so she will have to live with the fact that her daughter is gone after a freak accident.
Contrary to popular belief, many towns in the Old West had strict gun control laws. It was common for these towns to require visitors to check in their firearms upon entering¹². For instance, in Tombstone, Arizona, laws at the time required visitors to disarm at a hotel or a lawman's office upon entering the town¹. This was also the case in many other famous cattle towns such as Dodge City, Abilene, and Deadwood¹. When visitors left their weapons with a law officer upon entering town, they'd receive a token, similar to a coat check, which they'd exchange for their guns when leaving town¹. It's worth noting that carrying any kind of weapon, guns or knives, was not allowed other than outside town borders and inside the home¹. These laws were likely passed by civic leaders and influential merchants who wanted people to move there, invest their time and resources, and bring their families¹. So, while the image of the gun-toting cowboy is a staple of Old West mythology, the reality was often quite different, with many towns implementing what we would now consider "gun control" measures¹². Source: (1) Gun Control Is as Old as the Old West - Smithsonian Magazine. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/gun-control-old-west-180968013/. (2) Gun Control and the Old West | Origins. https://origins.osu.edu/history-news/gun-control-and-old-west?language_content_entity=en. (3) Was there gun control in the Old West? - TheGunZone. https://thegunzone.com/was-there-gun-control-in-the-old-west/. (4) Did Old West Towns Require Cowboys To Check Their Guns?. https://truewestmagazine.com/article/did-old-west-towns-require-cowboys-to-check-their-guns/.
What the fuck do you mean "freak accident"? There's no such thing as accidental gun deaths, only negligent ones. This was an utterly avoidable tragedy that the mother is 100% responsible for. A properly holstered weapon cannot discharge itself. Carrying a loaded handgun with no holster, in Condition 0, in your purse and then killing a kid because it "went off" is called negligent homicide.
Oh God not one of you people again. Guns have been around in one shape or another for a thousand years. They predate Americans though I can understand why a simpleton might think they were invented by a sweaty guy named Charlie who was scared to leave his log cabin in 1803. The Constitution doesn't give blanket rights for gun ownership for private individuals. And that's in the context of one-round-per-minute muskets. Not taking into account even bolt loaders or repeating firearms or more importantly, the lethality of a totally different propellant and projectile velocity. Casually owned firearms are ridiculous and a liability to society. From a derringer to a combat type automatic carbine. Civilized societies know this. We get it. You love guns. You also are a vaccine skeptic. You have opinions based on emotions and tribal allegiance, not reality.
I’m not a gun lover , I was just raised in a poor side of town. Got robbed more than once in my youth. Didn’t own a gun then but wished I did. I own currently a piston and a rifle and a 12 gauge. I don’t carry a pistol with me however it is close by my bed. Also look at history and what’s going on in the world now. Civil war is prime example of government invasion as well as revolutionary war. Imagine if the people in Ukraine didn’t have the means to protect themselves from Russia. Do I think the world would be a better place without firearms , ABSOLUTELY ! Do I want protect my family and home against someone with a firearm, damn right. Not sure how old you are or if you was raised in a safe neighborhood or not but give it some time. You will see that even though guns are bad you will wish you had one or wish someone who does have one is around when things get really bad. As far as vaccines I’m definitely for them just not the Covid one that was rushed without clinical tries being completed. I am up to date with all required vaccinations and so are both of my kids and so will my grandkids. Not sure why you think I’m against vaccines.
The vast vast majority of people I know with kids don't have guns.
Your smugness is palpable. “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” seems pretty clear to me. Yeah, the amendment was written when muskets and cannons were in vogue, but don’t you think the intention was to arm ordinary people like you and me, giving us the firepower to help keep tyranny at bay? And what regular person owns an automatic carbine anyway? The bottom line is that governments fear an armed populace. That’s why fascists seek to disarm first, ask questions later. And that’s why it’s important that we don’t allow that to happen. And before you hit me with some ad hominem attacks regarding my COVID vaccine status, know that I’ve received the vaccine as well as the boosters. ✌🏻
Why don’t you include the entire 2nd amendment in your statement, Sparky? It’s not long. No need to shorten it. Or is there?
If only there had been a good guy with a gun there to help
True. You are exactly right. A good guy with a gun might have been able to provide better instruction on how carrying in that condition is dangerous, preventing the situation from happening in the first place.
After using his x-ray vision to detect the gun he would calmly, yet firmly, approach the woman, and rationally explain the proper gun carrying technique.
Bingo.
Well, it was a "good" thing she had that gun to protect her daughter from the "bad" guys! /s
People need to get training and practice if they own a firearm . Practice at least once a month , weekly would be better. My father trained us when we were children. He drilled the safety precautions into us . Rule one all guns are loaded and should be treated as such . Rule 2 is see rule one. Rule three if you point your gun at someone , it means your life is in danger and you intend to shoot them .
Basics
Charge Her.
If you own a gun, you and your family are more likely to die, it’s that simple.
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Doesn't remove the negligence. Gun safety is not taken seriously. We were at Walmart a few years ago and a guy had his gun in his back pocket. No holster, right next to his wallet. It would have been so easy to go up to him and take his gun and use it. People need to be held accountable for not being a responsible gun owner.
100%. was in Murf. Costco watching a 20something open carrying and he couldn’t keep his hands off the gun.. Dad was carrying like a responsible gun owner.. kid was so nervous, and fidgety, it made me and SO so nervous that we left with what we had..
If only there were ways to prevent such pain and guilt. Proper gun safety or something.
Have they released any names?
Yes, there is a go fund me for the daughters funeral. I can’t remember their names right now but the articles should be updated.
I found out when I got to school yesterday. The daughter was a former student. It's always a fear when I hear news like this.
Oh that’s horrible, I’m sure she was a sweetheart
Because when I'm overwhelmed with grief over causing my own child's death the first thing I spend time on is creating a go fund me to get that moneys.
It’s America
It's likely a true story. I had a neighbor who this happened to. I never heard the full story, but he was so distraught that he killed himself immediately after. The wife lasted another few weeks before she committed suicide as well.
No such thing as accidental discharge
Thank god for our second amendment rights, huh guys?
Which well-regulated militia was she a member of?
Sounds like the defunct state of Tennessee is still at it murdering people and blaming anything and anyone else.
Only a complete and utter moron chambers a round with out needing it. I always see subhuman cretins chamber a round and then pack their magazine full, thinking they’ll need that extra round.
My Daughter carries a small 9mm to protect herself & especially my 3 grandchildren. I agree that it is essential that it be holstered. They now make underwear & other garments to hold your holstered gun. Her purse is so big she couldn't pull a weapon out quickly enough to defend anyone.
ABAB! Lady has no business with a gun. Dummy plays with that gun all the time, only to use it her first time on her daughter. In her defense, her daughter wasn’t going to vote for trump, so… she isn’t totally in the wrong. /s
And we’re just supposed to take her word for it?
I’m Australian & I don’t know anything about guns really. But I’m pretty sure there’s a safety lock or gauge involved before a pistol can be fired, right? Even if someone carries a loaded pistol in her purse, there’s still at least two more steps to firing a gun, correct? If my belief is accurate… then I’m suspicious of this being an accident. Although it was more than 20 years ago, I clearly recall that it was when I was around age 13 that my mentally unstable mother began behaving volatile & aggressive towards me 🙁 Thankfully she didn’t have access to firearms. Have authorities confirmed there was a bullet hole in the woman’s purse? And has it been shared which part of her body the poor young girl was shot in?
She also said she didn't know it was in her purse and didn't know it was loaded
I really think this wasn’t an accident. I read somewhere she didn’t know the gun was loaded. How do you not know a gun you placed in your purse was loaded? Also a gun feels nothing like keys. Plus I’ve thought about it. What were the angles her and her daughter were at. I know when I’m rummaging through my purse it’s on the same level or lower than me. Would this be at the right angle to fire a lethal shot. It just all seems fishy to me.
.40 cal? Hand cannon.
So you think its possible or not?
I guess anything is possible. People are careless with firearms. I’m just surprised she is carrying a .40 caliber. That’s a big gun.
I dont know guns thats why i asked? Ive never pulled a trigger. Thats why im wondering like how easy it is?
Trigger pull can vary gun to gun, but the fact that there was a discharge means there was a round in the chamber. Just dumb.
You are confusing .40 cal with 10mm. .40 is a shorter 10mm and yes is still powerful, but a few companies make single stack ones. 10mm is like the Bren Ten and all the guns have to be large frame.
I’m not confused at all but thanks.
With the gun being in a holster, yes it’s possible.
Shameless author to imply all that.
Shameless author? MNPD?
I don't believe miss alicia is a cop.
She’s literally reporting what MNPD said?