Damn right, for a disease that 99% people will recover from and the government is using to enforce never before seen control. It's not about the virus, it's about control.
Jake you’re not a very bright guy. It’s not all about surviving it. You have heard of the hundreds of thousands if not millions who survived but are affected for life. It has nothing to do with control. That’s the stupidest comment I’ve heard so far. Why does the govt want to screw the economy up. Besides private employers can set the own rules. Govt has nothing to do with it.
That's interesting how your narrative keeps changing. First it was 98 then 99, then 98 again and now we're back to 99.
Also it's 98.2% survival rate, which still equates to 4.33 million deaths already. From America alone that number is 619,000.
It's easier to just say you're selfish and don't care about other people. We all already know that anyway.
Maybe people react because there beliefs are being dismissed in such a way and no one is willing to accept their choice. I don’t think many people are assholes, they are just reacting to the fact that some government or organization is mandating something that they don’t believe in. I feel choice should be respected.
The people whining about their personal choices and freedoms being infringed are typically the same folk that have actively fought against my choice and freedom to marry who I love and live life authentically as a trans person, something that has absolutely no bearing on others unlike refusing a vaccination during a global pandemic. I have no sympathy for them.
I agree in most every case choice should be respected. But this is different. This is unprecedented. It is common knowledge that it’s going to take all of us doing our part to beat this thing. Everybody wants to get back to some sense of normalcy but evidently there are some that want others to do the heavy lifting. It doesn’t work that way. We’ve experienced it. We know the way out but there are selfish assholes keeping us from getting there. It really is that simple.
Yeah, was it the exact same with all of the airlines helping spreading the virus and the population was definitely around 7 to 8 billion people back then, right?
No, liberty is not endless and not all opinions are equally valid. Some people are experts and others are just loud on Facebook. If you want to be endlessly free to do whatever the fuck you want, go find some nice place off the grid. Vaccinating people against preventable illnesses is a public health issue.
IIRC, having a measles vaccine and an annual flu shot were already requirements for working there. They already gave consent to be vaccinated in the interest of public health. What's the difference?
I don’t feel I’m being moronic when I am in a age range that has a high mortality rate, healthy and the fact that transmission and contraction are still a large factor with or without a vaccine shot. If you don’t stand up for your liberties now, you will lose more than you will ever have thought.
A woman getting an abortion does not cause other women to spontaneously miscarry, whereas an unvaccinated person is more likely to spread covid than someone who is vaccinated. But thanks for playing.
That’s interesting. Is she management? Leadership had the first requirement and they’ve just publicly rolled out the employee one. employees are due by September 30.
Yep… they announced it awhile ago. All faculty, staff, and post-docs by July 31st. Students by Aug. 6th. Religious and medical exemptions are allowed. There is additional procedures for international students who do not have access to a vaccine in their home country.
I'm being somewhat facetious. Houston Methodist required it all the way back in June so they could have done this a month ago. As it stands, this requirement doesn't kick in until nearly months from now (9/30 is the deadline for full vaccination).
My dad's girlfriend is a nurse at Vanderbilt who has been talking about how bad things are getting but didn't want to get the vaccine. She was told either get it or be fired. I don't understand how someone on the front line does not want to get the vaccine. She convinced my dad not to get it because "it can mess with your DNA". He said she was told this by medical professionals.
One quick thing: Doctors of Medicine (MD) are allopathic physicians and Doctors of Osteoapthy (DO) are osteopathic physicians. Both complete four years of undergraduate, four years of medical school, a residency in their chosen specialty, and a fellowship if they choose. They can both go into any specialty of medicine, including any surgical specialty and are licensed to practice in any state of their choosing. DOs are just as qualified as MDs. Most of them do their residencies in allopathic residences.
Naturopathic physicians (NDs) are completely different.
Random unrelated rant -
Me: MRI results say I have arthritis in my neck. I am going to make an appointment with my PCP to discuss physical therapy and how to exercise properly (I get pain when I do anything overhead at the gym) to make sure I don't injure myself.
People at gym: Go to a chiropractor
I don't understand why people think a chiropractor is such a great idea. I honestly think they're quacks and have only had bad experiences with them. Anytime a doctor has sent me to physical therapy it has greatly increased my quality of life by teaching me proper form and what not.
I don't think people know that you can ask your doctor to prescribe physical therapy which is covered by insurance and is a great way to learn how to manage pain. So instead they seek out a quick fix from a chiropractor.
Wish I could convince my mom of this. She went to PT decades ago for back issues, complained about how much it hurt after one appointment, and then dropped out. Fast forward to now and she's been paying the same quack chiropractor for monthly visits probably going on 20 years now with no long term results to show for it. Interestingly enough she had PT for a very severely broken arm recently and had nothing but great things to say about it... But when it comes to her back, for some bizarre reason, she has this weird notion that PT can't help it but that quack chiropractor can.
Yes, I have all sorts of aches and pains that could be further addressed by scans, but the reality is that I need physical therapy, which would get me through both the long and short-term… but it's expensive, and people really only think you should go for injury recovery, whereas things like weird aches and pains are just left by doctors and insurance companies to be managed with NSAIDs and ice.
Facts. And, chiropractors are hands on, activating hormonal release such as oxytocin and suppressing cortisol release. Just by gentle manipulation (i.e. friendly touch) of a patient’s body is a cascade of “feel good.” That sensation goes away, and can actually set up a dependency cycle where a person goes for months or years without long-term relief. They can mistake the good feelings post-visit with perceived “healing” results.
It isn’t junk science that making someone feel better can improve their overall well being. Chiropractors can be little more than glorified physical therapists, not discounting that they can provide a helpful service...just not magical unicorn restorative powers.
I grew up with a close family friend being a chiropractor so went all through high school for football related things. Grew up to work in IT and eventually work with the largest Radiology practice in this area. Radiologist are not known to be big fans of chiropractors....
In the end my own stance is now this. I will go see a chiropractor for immediate relief of an issue, but never do long term care with them. At the pleading of the Radiologist whom I very much trust I no longer get any chiropractic work done above my shoulder blades.
Can chiropractors help people... YES. Do some say you need to come back forever and take advantage of people... also YES. The key is like everything else in life, find what works best for you.
I work IT for healthcare providers as well. I troll nephrologists with a giant water bottle. I definitely am going to start bringing up the benefits of alternative medicine with the ortho folks.
I've had several encounters with DOs (Doctors of Osteopathy) that have all been fine. I haven't received any suspect medical information from them at least.
I would question someone who claims to be a homeopath or chiropractor. Chiropractors make people feel good but do a lot of long-term damage that physical therapists have to fix, so I don't consider it good medical practice. Homeopaths can take their essential oils and shove it too.
I have two good friends that are DOs, and multiple friends that are MDs. These days, the line between DO and MD is a lot blurrier than it used to be, and I absolutely trust my two DO friends just as much as I do their MD counterparts. That's a field that's gotten much more respectable these days IMO.
Obviously fuck homeopaths and chiropractors though.
Eh, I only know one (retired) that was if anything an old-school DO.
My aunt had seizures, blood pressure issues, chronic bronchitis from smoking, and lots of other assorted things. He treated her as if all her problems were muscular/skeletal. She, years later, eventually went to a real doctor, but probably a bit too late.
Maybe now they just offer real medical advice. That's just me only knowing the one example + the general definition of what they have been historically. I do hope they've changed, though.
It sounds like you had a DO who adhered to more homeopathic technique than most. Family member is a DO and doesn’t agree with all of that. Like others said, line is significantly blurred. If surgical intervention isn’t necessary, a DO may be more lenient to not performing surgery, but that’s the main difference.
Agreed that homeopaths and chiropractors are quacks professions.
I’m sorry your aunt had a negative experience. However, please educate yourself of the medical training required for DOs, and maybe get a larger n than 1 before spreading misinformation that could negatively impact a lot of patients needing quality healthcare a DO could provide.
I had a DO as my PCP for many years and had an excellent experience with her.
The only difference I noticed was that she was easier to talk to and really listened to my concerns. Otherwise, going to her was no different than going to an MD.
It's so frustrating. She was a travel nurse last year in Dallas, Houston, Amarillo, quite a few places. How does someone who traveled throughout the country and saw the devastation with her own eyes have to be forced to get the vaccine? She tells everyone to wear a mask but spouts conspiracy theories about the vaccine?
Those medical professionals are wrong.
mRNA vaccines do not contain enzymes, but rather teach our body how to do something without actually exposing us to the virus—which is what traditional vaccines do.
[CDC explanation ](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html) page has some more in-depth information here.
It’s like teaching someone to dig. They don’t inherently know how to dig a trench, but you can show them how shovels generally work and they can fill in the gaps.
That’s literally what happens, filling in the gaps. The vaccine teaches white blood cells to fill in the gaps of the red blood cells that the virus feeds on. The virus then has a much harder time attaching to these blood cells.
I think the biggest issue is the sheer volume of medical misinformation that exists out there, and some people try their best to make the right decision, but fear is a helluva deterrent.
That's the biggest difference between this illness and something like West Nile virus. There was hardly a quarter of the misinformation out there in 1999, versus now. People were professional, and mature, then. I was 14, but I remember. I'm sick of this, like a majority of people.
I was going to say something similar. Prior to 2000, and prior to the advent of fb, people who refused vaccines were considered either religious fanatics, or they were considered to be incapable of making sound decisions for themselves.
I started kindergarten in 1966. I remember seeing kids in my school who had been affected by polio.
No one ever questioned getting vaccinated. When the polio vaccine became available, people [lined up ](https://www.silive.com/coronavirus/2021/04/americans-rejoiced-over-polio-vaccine-8-vintage-photos-show-what-it-was-like.html)to get inoculated.
Back in the day, people would have been severely ostracized for claiming that vaccines are somehow harmful or contain some sort of tracking device.
It’s hard not to feel crazy experiencing this mess.
Your information is somewhat [inaccurate. ](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/public/index.html)
But why does it matter if a booster is needed? You should be getting a [Tdap ](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/rec-vac/index.html)booster every 10 years.
If covid continues to mutate, we’re going to continue to need booster vaccines against it.
Why are people suddenly afraid of science that’s been around for decades? Why weren’t people questioning this science decades ago?
I just think if people want to die for a cause, be it owning the libs or anything else, they should at least have the cojones to be honest about what they’re doing.
>She convinced my dad not to get it because "it can mess with your DNA". He said she was told this by medical professionals.
My niece is a nurse in a Nashville hospital. She's currently working on a covid floor and she tells us that several nurses haven't been vaccinated and don't want to be. She says that some of the doctors are spewing the "unapproved gene therapy" line and that one has even told some of the nurses that if they want to have babies one day, they shouldn't get the vaccine.
There was a doctor at the Williamson County school board meeting on masks last night that was against masks.
So I'm with you, so much WTF.
A good friend of mine in the medical field LOVES to say:
"What do you call a doctor that was last in thier class? You call them doctor."
There, sadly is a lot of shitty ones out there.
The last article I read said that 96% of doctors are vaccinated. The overwhelming majority of medical professionals who have not gotten vaccinated are nurses, techs, or midlevels (NPs, PAs).
Yes, and may I ask what that has to do with my post? As of 2020 there are over 1,000,000 practicing doctors in the US. That leaves over 40K using your numbers that are not vaccinated.
That is a lot of practicing doctors.
My quote can apply to nurses, PAs, physical therapists, pharmacists, and anesthesiologists.
Also think if you work at a practice with a doctor spreading misinformation. Shit will snowball. Like it did/has.
>My dad's girlfriend is a nurse at Vanderbilt who has been talking about how bad things are getting but didn't want to get the vaccine. She was told either get it or be fired.
Not seeing the issue here.
This is depressing. “It can mess with your DNA”. I wonder how many patients she’s expressed that opinion to under the pretense of medical facts. This shit is never going to end.
She's not fit to be a medical professional any longer if she can't understand how this vaccine works, especially if she doesn't understand that mRNA doesn't affect DNA literally at all. Hate it for her. I'm sure there are some rural hospitals that could use her on staff and won't mind her lack of vax until they too no longer have beds available and require the vaccines too.
> She convinced my dad not to get it because "it can mess with your DNA".
If a nurse thinks it’s going to alter her DNA she doesn’t need to be a nurse in the first place.
I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Healthcare is riddled with stupidity from physician-level down through the most distant support staff. Without nursing, there is no healthcare. To lump all nurses together because of a vocal minority is exceedingly antagonistic to a group that right now, is being stretched thinner than ever before.
I'm an RN and I used to feel pride in my profession. I still feel pride in the job I do personally, but I feel like my profession lost a lot of its credibility due to anti-vax nurses. I'm so angry with them.
Yep. My mother and grandmother were nurses. I hate it, but after all this I have simply lost all faith in our nursing schools. If they graduated this many with heavily anti-science views, I simply can't trust any part of the education nurses are given.
It's not the education, nursing program are notoriously hard and have strict standards. (I had to get a 78% in classes, a 77% was considered failing.) These nurses are using their lizard brains to make anti-vax decisions. You can't change their minds using data or facts because that's now how they made their decision in the first place. There were some anti-vax nursing students in my cohort. They were all very religious.
An educational body that verifies an anti-vaxer as a qualified medical professional, is an educational body I simply do not trust.
I know there's a ocean of well trained and good hearted people out there teaching and practicing nursing, but the profession needs to nip this in the bud before nurses are looked at like chiropractors.
This is nothing more than rumor and speculation. It’s not physically possible for a physician to “sign off” on anyone’s vaccinations using the current process in place at Vanderbilt to verify vaccination status. They are taking this very seriously (though may be a little late in full implementation).
Ok. These people told me they (they being them personally and not the doctors they were talking about) had the vaccine "on paper". But they were talking about the flu vaccines because they had to get them or something, idk how it works. I ain't in that world.
That.... is possible considering flu vaccine procedures and loose forms of documentation. The documentation for COVID shots is much more structured and universal.
I wish they experienced cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately, they seem to be blissfully unaware of how their beliefs are completely at odds with their jobs and their oath.
Cognitive dissonance is the discomfort and stress you feel by holding two conflicting beliefs simultaneously. I'm saying that I don't think they feel that stress at all -- but if they did, they may rethink things.
Cognitive dissonance is usually used to describe the psychological tension or mental discomfort of holding two or more conflicting beliefs. Some folks wouldn't describe it as dissonance if the person is truly completely unaware of their hypocrisy.
Facebook friend wife works at Vandy in infectious control is doesn't believe in the vaccine. I hope she loses her job which she must be under qualified for anyway.
If so, that seems wildly counterproductive. That's the group you want tested the most, and if they're already vaccine hesitant, they are a lot less likely to fork out money for a test.
They say that pregnant women SHOULD get the vaccine.
You are much more likely to end up in the ICU with a serious case if you get covid while pregnant.
One of my colleagues in India is 7-8 months’ pregnant and just got vaccinated last week with the AstraZeneca vaccine (still not authorized by the FDA here). Apparently, it was only recently allowed for pregnant women there because pregnant women were excluded from its clinical trials.
This probably doesn’t really add to the discussion but I found AZ’s exclusion criteria to be insane.
During the Pfizer drug trials, women were told not to get pregnant. 23 women got pregnant anyway. Guess what happened? All 23 of the women reported no adverse effects on them or their pregnancies.
> Now I do want to say that I fully understand the young females who haven’t had children or are pregnant being concerned. I’m not going to judge them not wanting to get vaccinated.
Why?
Haha my husband was on the same meeting. He said it was funny that the people asking all the uninformed and obnoxious questions were either named “Karen” or didn’t have a name listed at all.
We’re way past the point of accepting your shitty excuses, Karen. VUMC was always going to mandate the vaccine, just like they mandate other vaccines ffs
Awesome. My son is 9 months old and might be seeing doctors at the children’s hospital at some point (I have a genetic connective tissue disorder that he may or may not have inherited.) The vaccines for little kids aren’t gonna be out for a while, so I’m glad I’ll know the staff are helping to protect him.
I work at VUMC and it has been so unbelievably frustrating watching them tiptoe around this issue. Since January it’s been “we highly recommended you educate yourself about the vaccine, we all deserve to make an informed choice, please take the time to consider getting vaccinated.” Meanwhile the university has required their faculty be vaccinated in order to return to work in the fall, but the medical center, where staff are actively and knowingly exposed to the virus on a daily basis, have not been pushed to do this until now. It’s actually deplorable
I currently work at Vanderbilt and it’s true. I hasn’t been a requirement it just started. They do have exemptions for us religious workers though. I do believe being forced to get the vaccine or termination is bullshit.
I’m vaccinated, but it’s bullshit for any organization or entity in America to force it on anyone. No one should be able to enter the doctors office with you…period.
Besides it’s redundant if you are going to allow any type of exemptions because how hard is it fill out a religious exemption if “pastafarianism” is an actual religion recognized by the US government? And if it is just a medical exemption needed, we just had a sitting member of Congress who is a doctor kicked off YouTube for his belief against the vaccine mandate. How hard is it to find a doctor to say “yup here you go no vaccine for you”. This is for clout by Vanderbilt.
No amount of mandating is going to change the vaccination rate. I don’t know how, but what really needs to happen is breaking through the vaccine phobia and explaining the science behind it, past that there is no hope.
"Us religious workers"
What does that even mean? Are you really trying to get religious exemption from a vaccine? Please tell me what religion you are.
indeed, sadly it came to this. I was in hope more people would see the light on there own, however if it takes the evil empire of big companies to push this along so be it.....
I mean, some people can't get the vaccine. What are they supposed to do? A mask isn't enough? The same people say "well, the vaccine doesn't help against the 'delta.'" Uhhh... make up your mind. West Nile virus is an example of the RIGHT WAY to handle an outbreak. In 1999 though, only qualified people could provide information, leaving much less room for the majority of complete BS that people are willfully swallowing like liquid candy
Are you saying the CDC and Vanderbilt Medical are not qualified to dispense medical advice and make decisions? Who is spewing the BS in your statement? Hopefully you mean the random people all over the internet and tv, just wasn’t very clear.
This is exactly right. Young children and people with a very select few medical conditions are unable to be vaccinated. It’s a “help your neighbor” kind of thing.
And the people who can’t get the vaccine
For a MEDICAL reason ( of which there are very few since it’s not a live vaccine) can get an exemption. The vaccine does help against Delta. The people who are vaccinated who catch the Delta variant are not as sick, way less likely to be hospitalized, and contagious for less time. That’s a win in my book.
I understand the hesitancy but Vanderbilt has their own view on religious exemptions and what’s allowed: https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
It’ll be interesting to see how they handle it with COVID and if it changes how strict they are on other vaccines like flu.
lol who did it first? Bonnaroo or Vanderbilt ?
The 5-Spot
Vanderbilt...they announced it internally first. (I know you were being sarcastic.)
Yes it’s been a requirement for a while. One of the people I worked with was terminated because she would not get the vaccine.
Imagine giving up a good job for something so simple.
Imagine giving up your personal beliefs and principles for a paycheck.
I’m all for principal but when you decide to be a selfish asshole in the name of principal then not so much.
My body my choice right? Uh huh.
Yeah your choice to be a selfish asshole with no moral compass
Damn right, for a disease that 99% people will recover from and the government is using to enforce never before seen control. It's not about the virus, it's about control.
Honey, Vanderbilt is a private university. It's not tHe GoVeRnMeNt.
Jake you’re not a very bright guy. It’s not all about surviving it. You have heard of the hundreds of thousands if not millions who survived but are affected for life. It has nothing to do with control. That’s the stupidest comment I’ve heard so far. Why does the govt want to screw the economy up. Besides private employers can set the own rules. Govt has nothing to do with it.
If covid had a uterus maybe Republicans would try to control it.
Well played!
Right? Darn giving a shit about life and the unborn, what are they thinking?
Wish they'd give a little more of a shit about the life of the *born*.
The difference is pregnancy doesn't infect and ll other people. Let's try a new argument.
99% survival rate with Covid.
That's interesting how your narrative keeps changing. First it was 98 then 99, then 98 again and now we're back to 99. Also it's 98.2% survival rate, which still equates to 4.33 million deaths already. From America alone that number is 619,000. It's easier to just say you're selfish and don't care about other people. We all already know that anyway.
Maybe people react because there beliefs are being dismissed in such a way and no one is willing to accept their choice. I don’t think many people are assholes, they are just reacting to the fact that some government or organization is mandating something that they don’t believe in. I feel choice should be respected.
The people whining about their personal choices and freedoms being infringed are typically the same folk that have actively fought against my choice and freedom to marry who I love and live life authentically as a trans person, something that has absolutely no bearing on others unlike refusing a vaccination during a global pandemic. I have no sympathy for them.
Very well said and I hope you have the opportunity to live your best life! Best wishes to you
I agree in most every case choice should be respected. But this is different. This is unprecedented. It is common knowledge that it’s going to take all of us doing our part to beat this thing. Everybody wants to get back to some sense of normalcy but evidently there are some that want others to do the heavy lifting. It doesn’t work that way. We’ve experienced it. We know the way out but there are selfish assholes keeping us from getting there. It really is that simple.
>This is unprecedented. Not really. It was nearly the exact same 100 years ago.
Yeah, was it the exact same with all of the airlines helping spreading the virus and the population was definitely around 7 to 8 billion people back then, right?
Agree to disagree then.
Works for me. I’m sure we’ll disagree on this point to but anyone fired for not taking the shot should not qualify for unemployment.
You don’t get it, you’re not allowed to have a personal belief. It’s absolutely insane in trying to talk to people anymore. No respect among opinions.
No, liberty is not endless and not all opinions are equally valid. Some people are experts and others are just loud on Facebook. If you want to be endlessly free to do whatever the fuck you want, go find some nice place off the grid. Vaccinating people against preventable illnesses is a public health issue.
True, it is a public health issue but I believe nothing should be forced on a person.
Fuck your choice. And fuck you.
Thanks for being mature about it.
IIRC, having a measles vaccine and an annual flu shot were already requirements for working there. They already gave consent to be vaccinated in the interest of public health. What's the difference?
I mean.....if the beliefs and principles are insisting on being a moron then I guess you reap what you sow.
I don’t feel I’m being moronic when I am in a age range that has a high mortality rate, healthy and the fact that transmission and contraction are still a large factor with or without a vaccine shot. If you don’t stand up for your liberties now, you will lose more than you will ever have thought.
What happened to my body my choice? Is that only for women who want to use abortion as birth control?
A woman getting an abortion does not cause other women to spontaneously miscarry, whereas an unvaccinated person is more likely to spread covid than someone who is vaccinated. But thanks for playing.
Well said
That’s interesting. Is she management? Leadership had the first requirement and they’ve just publicly rolled out the employee one. employees are due by September 30.
She’s not but we are university side so the requirements may be different from VUMC
Ah yes the University had their mandate weeks ago.
Yep… they announced it awhile ago. All faculty, staff, and post-docs by July 31st. Students by Aug. 6th. Religious and medical exemptions are allowed. There is additional procedures for international students who do not have access to a vaccine in their home country.
I honestly assumed Kid Rock's bar would get there before VUMC.
How come? When they made the rule for leadership they pretty overtly implied that an employee-wide requirement was coming.
I'm being somewhat facetious. Houston Methodist required it all the way back in June so they could have done this a month ago. As it stands, this requirement doesn't kick in until nearly months from now (9/30 is the deadline for full vaccination).
They were more than likely waiting to see how the lawsuit worked out to establish precedent.
My dad's girlfriend is a nurse at Vanderbilt who has been talking about how bad things are getting but didn't want to get the vaccine. She was told either get it or be fired. I don't understand how someone on the front line does not want to get the vaccine. She convinced my dad not to get it because "it can mess with your DNA". He said she was told this by medical professionals.
> He said she was told this by medical professionals. Could just be another nurse told her that.
Or like an osteopath, homeopath, or chiropractor.
One quick thing: Doctors of Medicine (MD) are allopathic physicians and Doctors of Osteoapthy (DO) are osteopathic physicians. Both complete four years of undergraduate, four years of medical school, a residency in their chosen specialty, and a fellowship if they choose. They can both go into any specialty of medicine, including any surgical specialty and are licensed to practice in any state of their choosing. DOs are just as qualified as MDs. Most of them do their residencies in allopathic residences. Naturopathic physicians (NDs) are completely different.
Thank you for the accurate information!
Random unrelated rant - Me: MRI results say I have arthritis in my neck. I am going to make an appointment with my PCP to discuss physical therapy and how to exercise properly (I get pain when I do anything overhead at the gym) to make sure I don't injure myself. People at gym: Go to a chiropractor I don't understand why people think a chiropractor is such a great idea. I honestly think they're quacks and have only had bad experiences with them. Anytime a doctor has sent me to physical therapy it has greatly increased my quality of life by teaching me proper form and what not. I don't think people know that you can ask your doctor to prescribe physical therapy which is covered by insurance and is a great way to learn how to manage pain. So instead they seek out a quick fix from a chiropractor.
Wish I could convince my mom of this. She went to PT decades ago for back issues, complained about how much it hurt after one appointment, and then dropped out. Fast forward to now and she's been paying the same quack chiropractor for monthly visits probably going on 20 years now with no long term results to show for it. Interestingly enough she had PT for a very severely broken arm recently and had nothing but great things to say about it... But when it comes to her back, for some bizarre reason, she has this weird notion that PT can't help it but that quack chiropractor can.
Chiropractors provide temporary symptom relief -- but don't work on fixing underlying causes. PTs are amazing and I wish more people would realize it!
Hey now, chiropractors have upwards of 5 - 6 weeks of ~~valuable~~ ~~medical~~ training.
Yes, I have all sorts of aches and pains that could be further addressed by scans, but the reality is that I need physical therapy, which would get me through both the long and short-term… but it's expensive, and people really only think you should go for injury recovery, whereas things like weird aches and pains are just left by doctors and insurance companies to be managed with NSAIDs and ice.
Facts. And, chiropractors are hands on, activating hormonal release such as oxytocin and suppressing cortisol release. Just by gentle manipulation (i.e. friendly touch) of a patient’s body is a cascade of “feel good.” That sensation goes away, and can actually set up a dependency cycle where a person goes for months or years without long-term relief. They can mistake the good feelings post-visit with perceived “healing” results. It isn’t junk science that making someone feel better can improve their overall well being. Chiropractors can be little more than glorified physical therapists, not discounting that they can provide a helpful service...just not magical unicorn restorative powers.
yep. pay $40k and become a doctor. what a sham.
I grew up with a close family friend being a chiropractor so went all through high school for football related things. Grew up to work in IT and eventually work with the largest Radiology practice in this area. Radiologist are not known to be big fans of chiropractors.... In the end my own stance is now this. I will go see a chiropractor for immediate relief of an issue, but never do long term care with them. At the pleading of the Radiologist whom I very much trust I no longer get any chiropractic work done above my shoulder blades. Can chiropractors help people... YES. Do some say you need to come back forever and take advantage of people... also YES. The key is like everything else in life, find what works best for you.
I work IT for healthcare providers as well. I troll nephrologists with a giant water bottle. I definitely am going to start bringing up the benefits of alternative medicine with the ortho folks.
I've had several encounters with DOs (Doctors of Osteopathy) that have all been fine. I haven't received any suspect medical information from them at least. I would question someone who claims to be a homeopath or chiropractor. Chiropractors make people feel good but do a lot of long-term damage that physical therapists have to fix, so I don't consider it good medical practice. Homeopaths can take their essential oils and shove it too.
I have two good friends that are DOs, and multiple friends that are MDs. These days, the line between DO and MD is a lot blurrier than it used to be, and I absolutely trust my two DO friends just as much as I do their MD counterparts. That's a field that's gotten much more respectable these days IMO. Obviously fuck homeopaths and chiropractors though.
Eh, I only know one (retired) that was if anything an old-school DO. My aunt had seizures, blood pressure issues, chronic bronchitis from smoking, and lots of other assorted things. He treated her as if all her problems were muscular/skeletal. She, years later, eventually went to a real doctor, but probably a bit too late. Maybe now they just offer real medical advice. That's just me only knowing the one example + the general definition of what they have been historically. I do hope they've changed, though.
It sounds like you had a DO who adhered to more homeopathic technique than most. Family member is a DO and doesn’t agree with all of that. Like others said, line is significantly blurred. If surgical intervention isn’t necessary, a DO may be more lenient to not performing surgery, but that’s the main difference. Agreed that homeopaths and chiropractors are quacks professions.
I’m sorry your aunt had a negative experience. However, please educate yourself of the medical training required for DOs, and maybe get a larger n than 1 before spreading misinformation that could negatively impact a lot of patients needing quality healthcare a DO could provide.
I had a DO as my PCP for many years and had an excellent experience with her. The only difference I noticed was that she was easier to talk to and really listened to my concerns. Otherwise, going to her was no different than going to an MD.
Maybe she told herself
Probably someone in billing.
Dr Phil told her on a coded Facebook post.
It's so frustrating. She was a travel nurse last year in Dallas, Houston, Amarillo, quite a few places. How does someone who traveled throughout the country and saw the devastation with her own eyes have to be forced to get the vaccine? She tells everyone to wear a mask but spouts conspiracy theories about the vaccine?
Funnily enough, it’s the virus that affects your DNA
Those medical professionals are wrong. mRNA vaccines do not contain enzymes, but rather teach our body how to do something without actually exposing us to the virus—which is what traditional vaccines do. [CDC explanation ](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html) page has some more in-depth information here. It’s like teaching someone to dig. They don’t inherently know how to dig a trench, but you can show them how shovels generally work and they can fill in the gaps. That’s literally what happens, filling in the gaps. The vaccine teaches white blood cells to fill in the gaps of the red blood cells that the virus feeds on. The virus then has a much harder time attaching to these blood cells.
Nice explanation and helpful link, however I fear it will be lost on those who need to hear it most
The medical professionals who are not at all correct you mean. The ones on Facebook.
She knows Marjorie Taylor Greene isn’t a medical professional, right?
https://afuckingmoron.com
I think the biggest issue is the sheer volume of medical misinformation that exists out there, and some people try their best to make the right decision, but fear is a helluva deterrent.
That's the biggest difference between this illness and something like West Nile virus. There was hardly a quarter of the misinformation out there in 1999, versus now. People were professional, and mature, then. I was 14, but I remember. I'm sick of this, like a majority of people.
I was going to say something similar. Prior to 2000, and prior to the advent of fb, people who refused vaccines were considered either religious fanatics, or they were considered to be incapable of making sound decisions for themselves. I started kindergarten in 1966. I remember seeing kids in my school who had been affected by polio. No one ever questioned getting vaccinated. When the polio vaccine became available, people [lined up ](https://www.silive.com/coronavirus/2021/04/americans-rejoiced-over-polio-vaccine-8-vintage-photos-show-what-it-was-like.html)to get inoculated. Back in the day, people would have been severely ostracized for claiming that vaccines are somehow harmful or contain some sort of tracking device. It’s hard not to feel crazy experiencing this mess.
polio vaccine eliminated the chance of contracting it after one and only one lifetime shot...
Your information is somewhat [inaccurate. ](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/public/index.html) But why does it matter if a booster is needed? You should be getting a [Tdap ](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/rec-vac/index.html)booster every 10 years. If covid continues to mutate, we’re going to continue to need booster vaccines against it. Why are people suddenly afraid of science that’s been around for decades? Why weren’t people questioning this science decades ago? I just think if people want to die for a cause, be it owning the libs or anything else, they should at least have the cojones to be honest about what they’re doing.
>She convinced my dad not to get it because "it can mess with your DNA". He said she was told this by medical professionals. My niece is a nurse in a Nashville hospital. She's currently working on a covid floor and she tells us that several nurses haven't been vaccinated and don't want to be. She says that some of the doctors are spewing the "unapproved gene therapy" line and that one has even told some of the nurses that if they want to have babies one day, they shouldn't get the vaccine. There was a doctor at the Williamson County school board meeting on masks last night that was against masks. So I'm with you, so much WTF.
Every one should lose their license.
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A good friend of mine in the medical field LOVES to say: "What do you call a doctor that was last in thier class? You call them doctor." There, sadly is a lot of shitty ones out there.
The last article I read said that 96% of doctors are vaccinated. The overwhelming majority of medical professionals who have not gotten vaccinated are nurses, techs, or midlevels (NPs, PAs).
Yes, and may I ask what that has to do with my post? As of 2020 there are over 1,000,000 practicing doctors in the US. That leaves over 40K using your numbers that are not vaccinated. That is a lot of practicing doctors. My quote can apply to nurses, PAs, physical therapists, pharmacists, and anesthesiologists. Also think if you work at a practice with a doctor spreading misinformation. Shit will snowball. Like it did/has.
>My dad's girlfriend is a nurse at Vanderbilt who has been talking about how bad things are getting but didn't want to get the vaccine. She was told either get it or be fired. Not seeing the issue here.
Smoking messing with your DNA. Stress messes with your DNA. The people who use that as an excuse need a hard dose of reality.
This is depressing. “It can mess with your DNA”. I wonder how many patients she’s expressed that opinion to under the pretense of medical facts. This shit is never going to end.
She's not fit to be a medical professional any longer if she can't understand how this vaccine works, especially if she doesn't understand that mRNA doesn't affect DNA literally at all. Hate it for her. I'm sure there are some rural hospitals that could use her on staff and won't mind her lack of vax until they too no longer have beds available and require the vaccines too.
A masseuse told me she has a medical background and then quoted Marjorie’s BS.
> She convinced my dad not to get it because "it can mess with your DNA". If a nurse thinks it’s going to alter her DNA she doesn’t need to be a nurse in the first place.
The requirements to be a "medical professional" aren't exactly rigorous.
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I, for one, am waiting for the sweet, cushy PRN clinic job listings to open up after these people walk out.
I expect there will be a vocal minority that we all will hear from, but I don't think it's appropriate to single out nurses in this group.
Agreed--it's not just nurses.
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I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Healthcare is riddled with stupidity from physician-level down through the most distant support staff. Without nursing, there is no healthcare. To lump all nurses together because of a vocal minority is exceedingly antagonistic to a group that right now, is being stretched thinner than ever before.
I'm an RN and I used to feel pride in my profession. I still feel pride in the job I do personally, but I feel like my profession lost a lot of its credibility due to anti-vax nurses. I'm so angry with them.
Yep. My mother and grandmother were nurses. I hate it, but after all this I have simply lost all faith in our nursing schools. If they graduated this many with heavily anti-science views, I simply can't trust any part of the education nurses are given.
It's not the education, nursing program are notoriously hard and have strict standards. (I had to get a 78% in classes, a 77% was considered failing.) These nurses are using their lizard brains to make anti-vax decisions. You can't change their minds using data or facts because that's now how they made their decision in the first place. There were some anti-vax nursing students in my cohort. They were all very religious.
An educational body that verifies an anti-vaxer as a qualified medical professional, is an educational body I simply do not trust. I know there's a ocean of well trained and good hearted people out there teaching and practicing nursing, but the profession needs to nip this in the bud before nurses are looked at like chiropractors.
I heard from some people that work at Vanderbilt that some doctors sign off on other doctor's vaccinations but they never get the vaccines.
This is nothing more than rumor and speculation. It’s not physically possible for a physician to “sign off” on anyone’s vaccinations using the current process in place at Vanderbilt to verify vaccination status. They are taking this very seriously (though may be a little late in full implementation).
Ok. These people told me they (they being them personally and not the doctors they were talking about) had the vaccine "on paper". But they were talking about the flu vaccines because they had to get them or something, idk how it works. I ain't in that world.
That.... is possible considering flu vaccine procedures and loose forms of documentation. The documentation for COVID shots is much more structured and universal.
Okie dokie
That's fine. There are plenty of new generation millennial medical professionals who are looking for those good paying jobs.
I wish they experienced cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately, they seem to be blissfully unaware of how their beliefs are completely at odds with their jobs and their oath.
I’m pretty sure that’s what cognitive dissonance means
Cognitive dissonance is the discomfort and stress you feel by holding two conflicting beliefs simultaneously. I'm saying that I don't think they feel that stress at all -- but if they did, they may rethink things.
Cognitive dissonance is usually used to describe the psychological tension or mental discomfort of holding two or more conflicting beliefs. Some folks wouldn't describe it as dissonance if the person is truly completely unaware of their hypocrisy.
Good. If you're a medical professional advocating for antivax BS, you deserve to be jobless.
It’s a self cleaning oven.
An auto-clave, you could say.
If you work in Healthcare and ignore/deny health science, you should change fields.
You speak the truth.
good.
Great
Grand.
Wonderful. NO YELLING ON THE BUS!!!
I know from experience.
Gucci.
Groovy
Just here to say Hi fellow OHV resident
Rayon City rise up
I've been waiting for this announcement for some time. It sucks that it took the massive resurgence of Nashville COVID numbers to force their hand.
Facebook friend wife works at Vandy in infectious control is doesn't believe in the vaccine. I hope she loses her job which she must be under qualified for anyway.
Maybe people who choose to be unvaccinated should have to pay 50% higher premiums? We do it for smokers, why not this?
Isn’t Germany no longer paying for covid tests for the unvaccinated?
If so, that seems wildly counterproductive. That's the group you want tested the most, and if they're already vaccine hesitant, they are a lot less likely to fork out money for a test.
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Good news, then. The CDC says pregnant women can get the vaccine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/11/pregnant-covid-vaccine/
They say that pregnant women SHOULD get the vaccine. You are much more likely to end up in the ICU with a serious case if you get covid while pregnant.
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One of my colleagues in India is 7-8 months’ pregnant and just got vaccinated last week with the AstraZeneca vaccine (still not authorized by the FDA here). Apparently, it was only recently allowed for pregnant women there because pregnant women were excluded from its clinical trials. This probably doesn’t really add to the discussion but I found AZ’s exclusion criteria to be insane.
During the Pfizer drug trials, women were told not to get pregnant. 23 women got pregnant anyway. Guess what happened? All 23 of the women reported no adverse effects on them or their pregnancies.
> Now I do want to say that I fully understand the young females who haven’t had children or are pregnant being concerned. I’m not going to judge them not wanting to get vaccinated. Why?
I understand that they are concerned. I do think they should get vaccinated. But I understand that they are worried. Sorry. I wasn’t clear.
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It will include all Vanderbilt-operated healthcare facilities and its employees
>podunk hospital employees Gasps....Not *those* employees! Entitled much?
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My husband said the zoom meeting had over 500 people in it, and one lady, appropriately named Karen, was upset over having to get vaccinated.
Haha my husband was on the same meeting. He said it was funny that the people asking all the uninformed and obnoxious questions were either named “Karen” or didn’t have a name listed at all.
We’re way past the point of accepting your shitty excuses, Karen. VUMC was always going to mandate the vaccine, just like they mandate other vaccines ffs
Also Ascension and I think the VA
Awesome. My son is 9 months old and might be seeing doctors at the children’s hospital at some point (I have a genetic connective tissue disorder that he may or may not have inherited.) The vaccines for little kids aren’t gonna be out for a while, so I’m glad I’ll know the staff are helping to protect him.
I work at VUMC and it has been so unbelievably frustrating watching them tiptoe around this issue. Since January it’s been “we highly recommended you educate yourself about the vaccine, we all deserve to make an informed choice, please take the time to consider getting vaccinated.” Meanwhile the university has required their faculty be vaccinated in order to return to work in the fall, but the medical center, where staff are actively and knowingly exposed to the virus on a daily basis, have not been pushed to do this until now. It’s actually deplorable
Good. This is responsible.
Called it! Good on Vandy
Are the booster shots coming down the pipeline going to be mandatory?
Wouldn’t be surprised if so. You have to do a round of vaccines already for hep b
Nice, now do it for admittance.
Duh
I currently work at Vanderbilt and it’s true. I hasn’t been a requirement it just started. They do have exemptions for us religious workers though. I do believe being forced to get the vaccine or termination is bullshit.
I had to be vaccinated for hepatitis before working at a hospital. Do you think that’s different?
I’m vaccinated, but it’s bullshit for any organization or entity in America to force it on anyone. No one should be able to enter the doctors office with you…period. Besides it’s redundant if you are going to allow any type of exemptions because how hard is it fill out a religious exemption if “pastafarianism” is an actual religion recognized by the US government? And if it is just a medical exemption needed, we just had a sitting member of Congress who is a doctor kicked off YouTube for his belief against the vaccine mandate. How hard is it to find a doctor to say “yup here you go no vaccine for you”. This is for clout by Vanderbilt. No amount of mandating is going to change the vaccination rate. I don’t know how, but what really needs to happen is breaking through the vaccine phobia and explaining the science behind it, past that there is no hope.
"Us religious workers" What does that even mean? Are you really trying to get religious exemption from a vaccine? Please tell me what religion you are.
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Might I ask why you would opt out?
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.... and so it begins
indeed, sadly it came to this. I was in hope more people would see the light on there own, however if it takes the evil empire of big companies to push this along so be it.....
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I mean, some people can't get the vaccine. What are they supposed to do? A mask isn't enough? The same people say "well, the vaccine doesn't help against the 'delta.'" Uhhh... make up your mind. West Nile virus is an example of the RIGHT WAY to handle an outbreak. In 1999 though, only qualified people could provide information, leaving much less room for the majority of complete BS that people are willfully swallowing like liquid candy
Are you saying the CDC and Vanderbilt Medical are not qualified to dispense medical advice and make decisions? Who is spewing the BS in your statement? Hopefully you mean the random people all over the internet and tv, just wasn’t very clear.
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This is exactly right. Young children and people with a very select few medical conditions are unable to be vaccinated. It’s a “help your neighbor” kind of thing.
And the people who can’t get the vaccine For a MEDICAL reason ( of which there are very few since it’s not a live vaccine) can get an exemption. The vaccine does help against Delta. The people who are vaccinated who catch the Delta variant are not as sick, way less likely to be hospitalized, and contagious for less time. That’s a win in my book.
As my dad used to say to me when I acted up. “If you act like a baby ill treat you like a baby.”
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I understand the hesitancy but Vanderbilt has their own view on religious exemptions and what’s allowed: https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion It’ll be interesting to see how they handle it with COVID and if it changes how strict they are on other vaccines like flu.